November 21, 2025 • 34 mins
This episode explores a scientific and psychologically informed approach to major gift fundraising with Bill Crouch, CEO of BrightDot. Bill shares his journey from higher education leadership to developing a consultancy built around understanding emotional intelligence and the balance of left-brain and right-brain thinking in fundraising. He explains how successful major gift work requires both analytical structure and creative relational engagement, and how teams can better leverage these strengths—whether through tailored roles, environmental triggers, or deeper insight into donor motivations. The conversation highlights practical strategies, including how to think like a high-wealth donor, how to build teams that blend data and human connection, and why understanding a donor’s “heart” is essential to securing transformational gifts.
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SPEAKER_02 (00:00):
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SPEAKER_03 (00:18):
Welcome back to the Nonprofit Hub Radio Podcast.
I'm your host, Megan Speer,joined today by Bill Crouch,
who's the CEO of Bright Dot.
Guys, I'm really excited to diginto this conversation.
We've talked major gifts, we'vetalked fundraising, we've talked
all the things on the podcast sofar this season, but not from
this angle.
We're going to take a veryscientific approach, really, to
(00:39):
the whole idea of major giftfundraising.
So, Bill, I'm excited to diginto your insights on this.
Welcome in.
SPEAKER_00 (00:45):
Thank you.
Delighted to be here.
SPEAKER_03 (00:47):
Yeah.
So tell the audience a littlebit about yourself and your
journey that kind of led you towhere we are today for this
conversation.
SPEAKER_00 (00:54):
Delighted to do it.
So I grew up in a preacher'shome where my dad was constantly
asking people to volunteer to dothings or to give money or to
tithe.
Or so I was just constantly inan environment like that.
When I went on to college, Idecided that I wanted to move
further into higher education.
I got my doctor's degree.
(01:14):
I went on the faculty of acollege.
The president, after a couple ofmonths, invited me to his office
and said, I've been watchingyou.
I think you could be a collegepresident one day, but you got
to learn how to raise majorgifts.
And so he said, I'm putting youin the development office, and
then you're going to be mychauffeur for the next two
years.
And wherever I go, I'm going todrive.
(01:34):
I want you to drive.
I'm going to work, but you getto go with me to all the donor
visits and I'll talk to youabout what I learned and stuff.
And so that got me, that got mestarted.
I mean, what an incredibleopportunity I was given, right?
And then I became director ofdevelopment of a nonprofit and
then vice president ofdevelopment for a college, and
(01:54):
then became the president of aprivate liberal arts college
where I was president for 22years.
And most of that time was spentwith high wealth individuals
trying to raise money.
And then I left to become thesenior managing partner of the
Jerry Panis FundraisingConsulting Firm in Chicago.
And I did that for two years.
But as I learned, I didn't likecapital campaigns.
(02:17):
I wanted to do somethingdifferent.
And so I decided to start my ownfirm.
I hired two developmentalpsychologists and I said, let's
figure out how we can makenonprofits better.
And I'm going to spend a yeartraveling and meeting with top
performers.
You work on the science andpsychology of nonprofit world.
(02:39):
And that's how Bright Dot wasborn.
And we we figured that the keyelement was more the scientific
element related to emotionalintelligence.
And that's where we that's wherewe started.
Now we've worked with over 150nonprofits in our educational
institutions, and we we lovewhat we do, and we're seeing
(03:02):
impact.
SPEAKER_03 (03:03):
That's awesome.
Uh yeah, I think that's great.
First of all, I've heard a lotof people's stories about how
they got into fundraising.
Uh, that is an approach I'venever heard before.
But what a cool opportunity tojust be able to see it up close
and kind of learn that way.
That's a really cool path.
SPEAKER_00 (03:20):
It's really cool.
And I couldn't call, I couldn'ttalk wherever we were traveling.
He was going to be working.
This is the way before cellphones.
Sure.
People don't know that world.
And but on the way back, I wasto have 11 questions to ask him.
And you know, why did you dothis?
Why why was the proposal writtenthis way?
Why what if we had brought thisup?
And I just got and I wasdriving, but I was learning the
(03:44):
whole time.
SPEAKER_03 (03:45):
That's great.
So one of the things that I Ithink is interesting about your
approach is that it really kindof dives into the left brain,
right brain elements, right?
So before we dive too deeplyinto is there a better side, or
how do we use these approaches,let's make sure that everybody's
kind of level set and definewhat are some characteristics on
(04:08):
right brain and what are somecharacteristics on left brain,
and how do we how do we makesure that we're defining those
terms correctly before we dig infurther?
SPEAKER_00 (04:16):
Okay, so so the simple way to look at left brain
is analytical, organized, datadriven, you know, the
mathematical parts of what we doin in our world.
And then the right, the rightbrain is the creative, the art,
the the fun, the music part ofit.
And what we've uncovered, ittakes a combination of the two.
(04:41):
Yeah.
And but it's not new, it's newto fundraising, but it's not new
to successful people.
Successful organizations havealways understood the difference
between left brain and rightbrain.
So, for instance, uh LouFrankfurt, who's the CEO of
Coach Handbags, which youprobably know a lot about.
SPEAKER_03 (05:02):
There's one in my closet, yes.
SPEAKER_00 (05:03):
Okay.
When he became the CEO, he said,we're gonna from now on, we're
gonna talk about magic andlogic.
And we gotta have both.
We've got to have the data, wegotta know what the customer
wants, but we got to have themagic that has a woman wanting
to have that coach bag there,the art.
Quincy Jones, one of the greatcomposers of all times, used to
(05:28):
call it the science and thesoul.
I gotta have the science tounderstand what notes to put in
there, but I've got to have thesoul to relate to the people who
are hearing my music, right?
Yeah, and all of a sudden webegan to realize at Bright Dot
that you gotta have both in thisfundraising world.
And we gotta have the scienceand the art, but very few people
(05:52):
have both.
SPEAKER_03 (05:53):
Yeah.
So that was okay, so that wasgonna be my question, right?
Typically, when I think ofsomebody who is, you know,
excellent fundraiser, and we'regonna let's keep it to the major
gift side, right?
Because somebody could be a anexcellent, you know, email
writer for annual fund,whatever.
But let's talk about the majorgift side.
When I think of somebody whodoes that, the top personality
(06:16):
trait that I think of tends tobe that super relational, very
gregarious, very like I'm I'mhere to build the relationship,
which tends to not be the datalike the super analytical brain.
SPEAKER_01 (06:29):
Right.
SPEAKER_03 (06:29):
Right.
So it feels like what we'resaying is we need to find a
unicorn.
But are there ways that you ifI'm because I will admit I am
super right-brained.
SPEAKER_01 (06:39):
Right, right.
SPEAKER_03 (06:40):
I my business partner and I have very clear
delineations of duties.
We don't let me math.
I it just is not my skill set todeal in numbers and analytics.
To be fair, but most of the timeI he would rather me talk to
people.
That's not his skill set either.
Great.
So we complement each other verywell.
But if you're somebody who's uhin a major gift role like that,
(07:04):
and maybe not a unicorn, arethere ways to learn how to be
the other?
Or what's the best approach tokind of balance that out?
SPEAKER_00 (07:14):
Well, one of the things that we do at Bright
High, we're we're disruptors.
We want to try to get peoplethinking differently than
they've than they've everthought before.
All right, so we have anassessment tool that we we
borrowed from the educationboard, where we give our
(07:35):
development clients, developmentstaff clients, this assessment
tool, which immediately allowsus to see whether they're left
brain or right brain.
Okay, right.
So we have data.
We have data that shows us whatthey are, right?
Then, of course, we want to seeif they're in the right
position.
Right?
You don't want a right brainMegan spending half of her time
(07:59):
in the office working throughdata.
SPEAKER_03 (08:02):
No, right?
She becomes a very unhappy Meganvery quickly.
SPEAKER_00 (08:06):
But what happens in many, many cases is that because
of what the reports that theboard wants to see, the reports
that other people want to see,the reports that you have to
turn into case, all of thatstuff drives you over to the
left side of it and keeps youout.
So one of one of our disruptionsis we believe that all
(08:27):
development staff members,whether they're running the CRM,
annual fund or whatever, are allmajor gift officers.
Because the ultimate goal, theultimate goal is to get major
gifts, particularly in the worldthat we live in today.
Sure.
It takes a lot of hundred dollargifts to make a million dollars,
right?
Yes.
And so we want the everybody onthe team thinking major gifts.
(08:50):
So how can my annual fund, howcan this letter help get us
there?
But then we want to divide theteam so that you have the left
brain team, you have the rightbrain team.
The goal is for the right brainteam to be on the road 80% of
the time or dealing with people80% of the time.
Okay.
The left side hands them thedata that they need, the left
(09:12):
side does the report, the leftside does the research.
But in you, as you know, Megan,you and I, as right brain
people, which I am, we couldlook at data and read it totally
different than the person whoproduced the data.
Yes.
And that's valuable.
That's valuable, but you don'twant me spending my time doing
the data, right?
(09:32):
Right.
So if you're fortunate enough tohave a team, you want to make
sure you have both.
I'm gonna give you an example.
When my wife and I got married,we decided we wanted to be a
one-car family.
And so we went to the we went tothe car lot, we walked on the
car lot, and I immediately sawthe car I wanted.
(09:54):
It was the right color, I likedthe style, it had all the stuff
in it, and said, I want that.
Her response was, oh no.
We need three months of lookingat consumer reports, we need to
go do five test drives of othercars and make sure we're getting
the most efficient, effectivecar that we can get, right?
Oh my.
So we decided instead ofbecoming divorced, that we would
(10:16):
be a two-car family.
Well, we see that happening allthe time in development, in
development shops, where they'vehired good people, but they've
got them in the wrong places andthey don't have the big vision,
and they don't use vocabularythat's motivating and
stimulating.
(10:37):
I love the science and soul, Ilove magic and you know, and
logic, right?
And I like to see, we like tosee our clients using that kind
of words talking about theirtheir job assignments, and it's
um, and it's really, reallyproductive.
Now, what's really difficult isif you're a one-person shop,
(10:59):
sure, and you know, in mostnonprofits, there's more of
those than there are the others.
Yeah.
So, what you got to do isanalyze what it is that you have
to do into two two divisions.
I've got the left brain work Igot to do, I got the right brain
work I got to do, and you haveto compartmentalize and you have
to be in different environments,right?
(11:21):
So when I have my left brainwork, I got to get done, I want
to be totally focused, I want tobe in a quiet environment, I
want my computer in front of me,I want the data in front of me,
and I'm gonna close my officedoor.
But when it's time for me to bein my right thinking, I want to
be outside or I want to bestanding up, I want to be in
(11:44):
front of a whiteboard, I want toI want a marker in my hand, I
want to play music for me.
That might be classical music.
For others, it could be TaylorSwift music.
Whatever it is that motivatesthe creativity, I want to be in
that situation.
So I have to say from eight toten today, I'm gonna be left
brain, and this is theenvironment I gotta be in.
But then later on in the day,I'm gonna move over to right
(12:07):
brain and I'm gonna be there.
And unfortunately, the leftbrain always dominates.
The left brain activities alwaysdominate because we're
restricted by what we think theboard wants and the reports that
we have to turn in and all thisother stuff.
And we have a very small time,typically, if you're a
one-person shop, yeah, you'rerunning a golf tournament,
(12:30):
right?
You're not out there buildingrelationships with the key
people.
So that's that's something thatwe are just really excited about
helping think through those typethings with our clients.
SPEAKER_03 (12:44):
That's great.
So I'm curious because I soagain, I am the right brain
person.
I know for myself when I have todo left brain activities, which
does happen as much as we try toavoid it, everybody has some
component of their job thatcrosses that line, right?
SPEAKER_01 (12:58):
Right.
SPEAKER_03 (12:59):
When I have to do it, I know that what I have the
finely honed system I have formyself is that I take my laptop
and my my earbuds and I go to myfavorite coffee shop, I bribe
myself with a a good latte, andI, you know, headphones in,
focused on the environment thatworks for me.
(13:19):
Right.
And so that to me is something Iunderstand because I can I can
focus in and I can narrow down.
If somebody's listening to thisand they're going, uh the left
brain stuff is easy, I can dothat all day.
I'm curious the what it wouldlook like for somebody in that
side of it to be able tounderstand how to right brain
(13:41):
better and give themselves thatfreedom.
Because they're not gonna taketheir giant whiteboard to the
coffee shop and bribe themselveswith a latte, right?
So, how do we help those folkson the other side?
SPEAKER_00 (13:51):
And believe it or not, um we do a lot of work with
community colleges.
Okay.
And a lot of the communitycollege's presidents come from
within, they come out of theworkforce development, they come
out of student services, theycome out of some, they don't
come out of fundraising, right?
Okay, typically.
So then when when they get thereand then they're told you are
now the public face of thiscollege, and yes, you have to be
(14:14):
out there all the time, then weteach them triggers that will
allow them to step out of theircomfort zone, to do that role
like they've got to do.
But when they get through withthat gala or whatever it is that
they're in, we tell them takethe next day off because you use
(14:35):
so much energy to get out ofyour comfort zone that you don't
have the energy to get back intothe left brain world as and be
as good as you were.
So moving from left to right toright takes a lot of energy.
Yes, right?
And that's why we say if you'regonna do a gala, have the left
(14:56):
brain person the one who'shandling the registration desk.
Don't have them being one that'ssupposed to go around and meet
people.
That's just not you need themthere, sure.
But give them a role where theirleft brain fits their comfort
zone and put the right brain.
We had a young lady at thecollege I was who had been a
(15:16):
character at Disney for eightyears.
Okay, and she was assistant headof financial aid, right?
But when we had Gala Vince, Ididn't want her at the
registration desk.
No, I wanted her work in theroom, right?
So understanding where your teamis, where their natural
tendencies are, is a criticalpart of being able to build the
(15:41):
team that's going to besuccessful.
And you got to have thepresident and CEO, executive
director in the mix, and you gotto understand where they are in
the mix.
And they're forced to getoutside of their comfort zone
all the time.
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SPEAKER_01 (16:51):
Right.
SPEAKER_03 (16:51):
Right?
Because the left-brain folks aregonna prepare the report,
they're gonna give you thereport, but what I take from it,
especially if we're talkingspecifically about walking into
a major gift meeting, the waythat I look at that is going to
be different.
Talk to me a little bit aboutthe the I mean, obviously
there's some ways that thatthose ri things really
complement each other, which isgreat.
SPEAKER_01 (17:13):
Right, right.
SPEAKER_03 (17:14):
But that is also cause for some potential
kerfuffle, if you will, right?
Between a team.
I think I feel like that's adata point that or that's a
interpretation that could reallytend to maybe cause some
conflict.
So, how do we approach thosethings?
SPEAKER_00 (17:34):
So one of the that's one of the reasons that we think
everybody's title should havemajor gift in it.
And it's just a major giftofficer colon annual fund, major
gift officer colon research,major gift officer colon,
whatever.
And then we got to train theteam about how high wealth
people are major gift ownersthink.
So the person who's doing theresearch needs to know that
(17:56):
they're doing the research, notto give to the major gift
officer, they're doing theresearch so that we can get a
gift.
And so, what we want to Iinterviewed the one of the
wealthiest men in North Carolinaa couple of years ago, and I
asked him if he would teach meto think like a wealthy person.
Oh, interesting.
Right?
And so he said, Yeah, I got abunch of people, I got about 10
(18:19):
of folks come to see me everymonth asking me for money.
And every time they'representing a proposal to me, I'm
always thinking the same thing.
And it doesn't matter whatinstitution, how long they've
been doing it, how old they are,I'm always thinking the same
thing.
And I said, What's that?
And he said, How stupid theyare.
And I would say, I said, Whywould you say that?
He said, He says, Because it'salways about them and never
(18:42):
about me.
He said, Bill, every wealthyperson loves art and music.
No development person shouldever go see a high wealth person
on the first visit and not knowwhat art and music they like.
So interesting.
But how many people who areputting together the data know
that that's an important thingto know?
(19:05):
Sure.
So we got to train the datapeople to think from a major
gift officer's perspective, notfrom the major, I mean, from the
major gift donor's perspective,not from the major gift
officer's perspective.
You know, it doesn't matter.
I said, what does it matter thatI know where your children went
to college and all this stuff?
I said, that doesn't matter atall.
(19:26):
All I want to know is that youknow me.
Right?
And interesting.
So it's it's that's why I thinkeverybody has to be trained in
this thinking about major gifts.
If in fact you buy into the factthat it takes a lot of hundred
dollar gifts to get a million,and where is your team spending
their time and energy?
Right?
SPEAKER_03 (19:46):
That's such an interesting reframing.
I I actually really like that.
SPEAKER_00 (19:50):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (19:51):
Yeah, that's great.
SPEAKER_00 (19:53):
So we have a magic question, Megan, that we train
our the people that work for usto ask the first time they've
they're with the major giftprospect.
SPEAKER_03 (20:00):
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (20:01):
Because what we really want to know is what's
their heart?
What gives them joy?
And so the the question that wetrain our our clients to ask is,
and I'll ask you, Megan, I'lljust ask you this question.
I want you to answer, I want youto answer.
Megan, what was your favoritechildhood toy?
SPEAKER_03 (20:17):
Oh, so I really loved Rainbow Bright.
unknown (20:21):
Okay.
SPEAKER_03 (20:22):
Rainbow Bright was my favorite, and I had all I had
like the big stuffed doll ofher, and then all the little
plastic figurines, the allRainbow Bright.
That's my girl.
SPEAKER_00 (20:30):
And what was it about Rainbow Bright that
excited you?
SPEAKER_03 (20:34):
I love so all each color had its own person.
I'm not how familiar you arewith the world.
SPEAKER_00 (20:41):
I got four dollars.
SPEAKER_03 (20:42):
Okay, so you're with me.
Yeah, so I loved that world ofcolor and the beauty that came
with it, and each color havingits own personality.
Loved it.
SPEAKER_00 (20:50):
Yeah.
So what you've just done is showme your heart and your joy.
Right?
Because what happens every timewe ask that question of a major
gift donor, they think, oh,yeah.
Then they get a big smile, thenthey start talking with their
hands.
Yes.
And what we're doing islistening to the vocal their
vocabulary.
So when I come back to you downthe road with a proposal, I'm
(21:12):
going to be talking to you aboutall the different personalities
we have in our nonprofit.
And what's one of the challengesis they have no place to plug in
that will allow the light toturn on in their world so that
they can go out and make adifference.
So I'm using your vocabulary andyour childhood toy to build the
relationship.
Now, how many researchersunderstand that?
(21:34):
I have to imagine very few.
Correct.
And so what we've got to do isto go all the way back from hey,
this also needs to be a part ofwhat we're delivering in our
annual, in our annual fund.
This is this needs to be thelanguage that we use as we move
forward into this world.
And so that's that's why wethat's why we call ourselves
(21:54):
disruptors.
SPEAKER_03 (21:55):
But that's so interesting.
SPEAKER_00 (21:57):
It's really having an impact and it's really making
a difference, and it's it's justso much fun.
So the so going back to oneother key, you got to hire the
right people.
Right.
Yes, and we think the key tothat, and my development
psychologist uncovered this.
The key is in most cases we'reasking the wrong questions.
Right.
So, for instance, we know thatwhenever a person's gone through
(22:19):
a childhood trauma, one of twothings typically happen when
they become adults.
They either become addicts andthey use drugs and alcohol and
other things to help hide theirpain, or they become incredibly
resistant, persistent, andthey're not afraid of anything.
Right?
But that's an important uhinsight to know when you're
(22:42):
hiring somebody.
Yeah, we can teach somebody howto raise money, but to teach
somebody to be resistant, to beteach somebody to be persistent,
to teach somebody to do thattype of is different.
So asking the differentquestions is so it's really
creating a whole differentculture of a uh development
operation that we think isimportant going into the future.
SPEAKER_03 (23:06):
That's so good.
I'm I'm thinking back to there'sa an organization that I used to
work with years and years ago.
I actually don't even thinkthey're in existence anymore,
and maybe this is why.
But their development team, uhespecially around major gift
specifically, was all I feellike the frat bros who knew how
to play golf.
(23:28):
Every one of them was cookiecutter, the same personality,
the same uh manner of speaking,the same just everything about
them was cookie cutter mold thewhole way down.
And it's interesting now to hearyou talk about that.
One of the things that alwaysstruck me as I was working with
them was, you know, I don't knowthat I would send any of them to
(23:48):
go talk to somebody, you know,to a woman, for example.
Right, because they just didn'tseem to have that emotional
intelligence to be able to carryon an actual conversation about
anything then other than thesports scores.
And I it always struck me, andnow I'm able to, based on our
conversation, put some thoughtto there's such a beauty in
(24:10):
diversity of thought anddiversity of personality,
instead of just hiring peoplewho think like us.
SPEAKER_00 (24:18):
Exactly right.
SPEAKER_03 (24:19):
Right?
SPEAKER_00 (24:20):
That's so important.
It's very, very important.
It's also what we call thebarber strategy, it's
understanding the barberstrategy.
So if I've got you in myportfolio, but I am self-aware
enough to know that I might notbe the right person to go to the
next level in the conversation,then I have to find what we call
(24:42):
Barbara, that person who can goin my place or go with me to tie
into that person's personality.
And that's where we're thinkingI think we're missing one of the
greatest assets we have is ourboard members.
Our board members, we need toknow their personalities, we
(25:03):
need to know their strengths, weneed to have them committed to
go with us to see donors whenthey are the right person more
so than we are.
So there's you know, there's alot of ownership in our in our
profession.
We got a part we got a portfolioand we own it.
Yes.
We don't want anybody elseinvolved because if we get a
(25:24):
gift, they might get credit andnot us.
Sure.
But that's not what makessuccessful fundraisers.
You got to use your assets.
We say to colleges one of yourgreatest assets is your faculty.
There's nothing that a highwealth, you know, high wealth
people, you've if you're gonnabuild a relationship with them,
you gotta give them some thingsthey can't buy.
(25:47):
And what's one of those is adinner with a faculty member
who's an expert in a particulartopic that I enjoy.
So we like these small intimategatherings where we we get to
know the donor enough to knowthat they're interested in
poetry.
So we put together and invitethe our Shakespeare expert to
come have dinner with them andtalk about what they're doing.
(26:10):
So maximizing the assets thatyou have.
I can't stand it whendevelopment people say I don't
have enough resources to do whatyou're talking about.
No, they gotta get out of thatwhat they're doing is thinking
left brain, which is expenses,instead of right brain, which is
investments.
Sure.
Right?
SPEAKER_03 (26:28):
Well, and I think too, when we look at we have to
get out of the mindset of a ofviewing it as a competition.
Right.
Right?
I'm not necessarily competingwhen we create a team, and maybe
that is a little more on theright brain side, when I'm
creating a team that is viewingit as competing against each
other to accomplish theirindividual goals instead of
(26:51):
looking at the overarching goal,I do think we set ourselves up
for failure.
SPEAKER_00 (26:56):
And you know, it's very it's very seldom that I've
seen resumes of people who arefundraisers who are trying to go
to another job.
They'll talk about how muchmoney they raised.
I don't think anybody raisesmoney.
No.
I want to know what the teamraised.
Yes.
And what was your role in theteam?
Yes.
Right.
And that's that's the that's whoI want to hire is the team
(27:20):
players who are on there for theteam.
And that's how you get you getthat's how you get new jobs and
opportunities.
SPEAKER_03 (27:26):
Yeah, absolutely.
Oh, this is so interesting.
So, Bill, before we move toclose, I do want to ask one
question about this.
So if somebody's listening andthey are either maybe the head
of development, VP ofadvancement, sitting in that
kind of leadership role, ifthey're thinking, man, you know
what, I did just hire all cookiecutters of myself, or man, my
(27:49):
team is super left-brained andwe don't have the personality
side, um are there ways thatleaders can, without just firing
half your staff and rehiring newpeople, are there ways that we
can encourage that like to thinkon the other side?
(28:09):
Are there where are there waysthat we as leaders can encourage
our team to think from the otherpoint of view and to kind of
hone those skills a little bitto diversify what we've got in
the bullpit there?
SPEAKER_00 (28:22):
Yeah, so yes.
So the first thing is you gotyou got to be very self-aware of
who your team is and what theirstrengths are.
Then you gotta, then you gottaput in front of them this is
what we've got to do to besuccessful.
We call it the nine puzzlepieces for fundraising success.
And we have those nine puzzlepieces, and we say, we've got to
get all nine of these thingsdone, even though this is not
(28:43):
our our expertise.
Okay.
Right?
So who's gonna do what?
And how are we gonna help eachother get this done?
And then you compartmentalize,and so you you say to a person,
I'm gonna ask you to do thisjob.
I only want you working on itone hour a day because I know
that's outside your comfortzone, and that's gonna take you
(29:05):
more time, and then we're hereto help you if you need help
along the way.
But if you do it one hour a dayand that's 20 20 days a month,
that's 20 hours you would bespending doing something you
don't really want to do, but wegotta have in order to be
successful, right?
So we see breaking it down intowhat we call small victims,
(29:26):
okay.
And getting out of your comfortzone is a victory.
SPEAKER_03 (29:30):
Yes.
I love that.
SPEAKER_00 (29:32):
And you gotta pat yourself on the back.
We call them blizzard moments,and whenever somebody gets out
of their comfort zone andsuccessful, then go to Dairy
Queen and get a blizzard.
You gotta celebrate.
Yeah, we've gotta have fun andwhat we're doing.
SPEAKER_03 (29:50):
Yeah, I love that.
Um, so real quick before aswe're wrapping up, tell us a
little bit about Bright Dot andthe the organization that you or
the organizations that you workwith.
SPEAKER_00 (30:00):
Yes.
So we we work with, we typicallysay we work with underdogs.
Those are organizations thatdon't have the resources and the
perks that other organizationsaround them have.
So I'm I live in Raleigh, NorthCarolina, in the middle of the
triangle, and we've got DukeCarolina and uh NC State right
(30:20):
here.
SPEAKER_01 (30:21):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (30:21):
Right.
And they got all kinds of perksat a university.
Oh.
So how do you compete?
How do you compete against them?
So we do, we do, we've workedwith 45 community colleges the
last couple of years.
We've worked with majoruniversities.
And I think if you're lookingfor a new way to get larger
results, then we're somebody youshould look at.
(30:42):
Because we're gonna we're gonnaget you thinking differently.
We're gonna try to get youenergized.
We're gonna talk about emotionalintelligence.
You know, we certainly knowabout portfolios and we know how
to do legacy society.
Matter of fact, the person on myteam, we have 14 people on our
team.
The person who does our legacywork founded and started the
(31:03):
plan giving program at St.
Jude's Hospital.
Oh wow.
So we know what we're doing.
I was a college president.
Absolutely.
I was a college president.
We know what we're doing.
But we gonna we call ourselvesartists.
We want to bring the art intothe science of fundraising.
And so that's what we that'swhat we're about.
And we teach them to ask crazyquestions like childhood toys
(31:26):
and things brilliant.
They've never thought of before.
Yes.
SPEAKER_03 (31:30):
Yeah, brilliant.
I love that one.
So good.
Okay, so as we close, thequestion that I have been asking
everyone, every guest so farthis season, you know, uh
obviously nonprofits areregularly under the gun and
regularly taking on the toughwork.
This year they have certainlyhad their fair share, maybe more
than their fair share, ofdiscouragements and upset.
(31:53):
So if you were to offer onepiece of wisdom or encouragement
to nonprofit leaders at thisparticular point in time, what
would that be?
What would that come what wouldthat look like?
SPEAKER_00 (32:08):
The power of ten deep breaths.
We have a performancepsychologist on our team who for
a while trained the trained thespecial forces to jump out of
airplanes, knowing that whenthey hit the ground in
Afghanistan, they were going tobe shot at with machine guns.
And I said, Well, gosh, that'slike being a major gift officer.
It's the same emotions.
I said, How do you do that?
(32:29):
She said, through 10 deepbreaths.
Whenever you're feeling anxious,whenever you something's
happened, just sit back, closeyour eyes, take 10 deep breaths,
and then get on with it.
SPEAKER_03 (32:41):
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (32:42):
That's what we think is part of the part of the
magic.
SPEAKER_03 (32:46):
Oh, I love that.
And I will certainly be puttingit into practice myself.
SPEAKER_00 (32:50):
It works.
SPEAKER_03 (32:52):
I'm sure.
I'll let you know how it goes.
SPEAKER_00 (32:54):
Good.
SPEAKER_03 (32:55):
Well, Bill, thank you.
This conversation has beenreally interesting.
It's certainly a differentapproach to team and also to
major gifts.
So I really appreciate all ofyour wisdom and insight.
Thanks for being here today.
SPEAKER_00 (33:05):
I loved it, Megan.
And um, our our why at BrightGod is to impact 100 million
lives over the next 10 years.
And we do that by empoweringnonprofits to have more revenue
so they can serve more people.
And that ripple effect.
And we'll never know if we getto 100 million lives, but we
know we're making a differencein the groups.
SPEAKER_03 (33:24):
That's awesome.
And there's nothing better thanthat.
SPEAKER_00 (33:26):
That's right.
SPEAKER_03 (33:27):
You can go to sleep at night knowing that you have
impacted the world for good.
There's nothing more rewarding.
SPEAKER_00 (33:33):
Especially in the world we're living in right now,
right?
SPEAKER_03 (33:35):
Absolutely.
Bill, thank you so much.
Uh again, my guest, uh, my guesttoday has been Bill Crouch,
who's the CEO of Bright Dot.
My name is Megan Speer.
I'm the executive director hereat Nonprofit Hub and the host of
the Nonprofit Hub Radio Podcast.
We'll see you next time.
Marketing Support Network is proud to serve the
nonprofit community by offeringfull service contact center,
fulfillment, digital marketing,and fundraising services.
Your vision is our mission, andwe can't wait to partner with
you.
Visit Marketing SupportNetwork.com for more
information.
SPEAKER_03 (00:18):
Welcome back to the Nonprofit Hub Radio Podcast.
I'm your host, Megan Speer,joined today by Bill Crouch,
who's the CEO of Bright Dot.
Guys, I'm really excited to diginto this conversation.
We've talked major gifts, we'vetalked fundraising, we've talked
all the things on the podcast sofar this season, but not from
this angle.
We're going to take a veryscientific approach, really, to
(00:39):
the whole idea of major giftfundraising.
So, Bill, I'm excited to diginto your insights on this.
Welcome in.
SPEAKER_00 (00:45):
Thank you.
Delighted to be here.
SPEAKER_03 (00:47):
Yeah.
So tell the audience a littlebit about yourself and your
journey that kind of led you towhere we are today for this
conversation.
SPEAKER_00 (00:54):
Delighted to do it.
So I grew up in a preacher'shome where my dad was constantly
asking people to volunteer to dothings or to give money or to
tithe.
Or so I was just constantly inan environment like that.
When I went on to college, Idecided that I wanted to move
further into higher education.
I got my doctor's degree.
(01:14):
I went on the faculty of acollege.
The president, after a couple ofmonths, invited me to his office
and said, I've been watchingyou.
I think you could be a collegepresident one day, but you got
to learn how to raise majorgifts.
And so he said, I'm putting youin the development office, and
then you're going to be mychauffeur for the next two
years.
And wherever I go, I'm going todrive.
(01:34):
I want you to drive.
I'm going to work, but you getto go with me to all the donor
visits and I'll talk to youabout what I learned and stuff.
And so that got me, that got mestarted.
I mean, what an incredibleopportunity I was given, right?
And then I became director ofdevelopment of a nonprofit and
then vice president ofdevelopment for a college, and
(01:54):
then became the president of aprivate liberal arts college
where I was president for 22years.
And most of that time was spentwith high wealth individuals
trying to raise money.
And then I left to become thesenior managing partner of the
Jerry Panis FundraisingConsulting Firm in Chicago.
And I did that for two years.
But as I learned, I didn't likecapital campaigns.
(02:17):
I wanted to do somethingdifferent.
And so I decided to start my ownfirm.
I hired two developmentalpsychologists and I said, let's
figure out how we can makenonprofits better.
And I'm going to spend a yeartraveling and meeting with top
performers.
You work on the science andpsychology of nonprofit world.
(02:39):
And that's how Bright Dot wasborn.
And we we figured that the keyelement was more the scientific
element related to emotionalintelligence.
And that's where we that's wherewe started.
Now we've worked with over 150nonprofits in our educational
institutions, and we we lovewhat we do, and we're seeing
(03:02):
impact.
SPEAKER_03 (03:03):
That's awesome.
Uh yeah, I think that's great.
First of all, I've heard a lotof people's stories about how
they got into fundraising.
Uh, that is an approach I'venever heard before.
But what a cool opportunity tojust be able to see it up close
and kind of learn that way.
That's a really cool path.
SPEAKER_00 (03:20):
It's really cool.
And I couldn't call, I couldn'ttalk wherever we were traveling.
He was going to be working.
This is the way before cellphones.
Sure.
People don't know that world.
And but on the way back, I wasto have 11 questions to ask him.
And you know, why did you dothis?
Why why was the proposal writtenthis way?
Why what if we had brought thisup?
And I just got and I wasdriving, but I was learning the
(03:44):
whole time.
SPEAKER_03 (03:45):
That's great.
So one of the things that I Ithink is interesting about your
approach is that it really kindof dives into the left brain,
right brain elements, right?
So before we dive too deeplyinto is there a better side, or
how do we use these approaches,let's make sure that everybody's
kind of level set and definewhat are some characteristics on
(04:08):
right brain and what are somecharacteristics on left brain,
and how do we how do we makesure that we're defining those
terms correctly before we dig infurther?
SPEAKER_00 (04:16):
Okay, so so the simple way to look at left brain
is analytical, organized, datadriven, you know, the
mathematical parts of what we doin in our world.
And then the right, the rightbrain is the creative, the art,
the the fun, the music part ofit.
And what we've uncovered, ittakes a combination of the two.
(04:41):
Yeah.
And but it's not new, it's newto fundraising, but it's not new
to successful people.
Successful organizations havealways understood the difference
between left brain and rightbrain.
So, for instance, uh LouFrankfurt, who's the CEO of
Coach Handbags, which youprobably know a lot about.
SPEAKER_03 (05:02):
There's one in my closet, yes.
SPEAKER_00 (05:03):
Okay.
When he became the CEO, he said,we're gonna from now on, we're
gonna talk about magic andlogic.
And we gotta have both.
We've got to have the data, wegotta know what the customer
wants, but we got to have themagic that has a woman wanting
to have that coach bag there,the art.
Quincy Jones, one of the greatcomposers of all times, used to
(05:28):
call it the science and thesoul.
I gotta have the science tounderstand what notes to put in
there, but I've got to have thesoul to relate to the people who
are hearing my music, right?
Yeah, and all of a sudden webegan to realize at Bright Dot
that you gotta have both in thisfundraising world.
And we gotta have the scienceand the art, but very few people
(05:52):
have both.
SPEAKER_03 (05:53):
Yeah.
So that was okay, so that wasgonna be my question, right?
Typically, when I think ofsomebody who is, you know,
excellent fundraiser, and we'regonna let's keep it to the major
gift side, right?
Because somebody could be a anexcellent, you know, email
writer for annual fund,whatever.
But let's talk about the majorgift side.
When I think of somebody whodoes that, the top personality
(06:16):
trait that I think of tends tobe that super relational, very
gregarious, very like I'm I'mhere to build the relationship,
which tends to not be the datalike the super analytical brain.
SPEAKER_01 (06:29):
Right.
SPEAKER_03 (06:29):
Right.
So it feels like what we'resaying is we need to find a
unicorn.
But are there ways that you ifI'm because I will admit I am
super right-brained.
SPEAKER_01 (06:39):
Right, right.
SPEAKER_03 (06:40):
I my business partner and I have very clear
delineations of duties.
We don't let me math.
I it just is not my skill set todeal in numbers and analytics.
To be fair, but most of the timeI he would rather me talk to
people.
That's not his skill set either.
Great.
So we complement each other verywell.
But if you're somebody who's uhin a major gift role like that,
(07:04):
and maybe not a unicorn, arethere ways to learn how to be
the other?
Or what's the best approach tokind of balance that out?
SPEAKER_00 (07:14):
Well, one of the things that we do at Bright
High, we're we're disruptors.
We want to try to get peoplethinking differently than
they've than they've everthought before.
All right, so we have anassessment tool that we we
borrowed from the educationboard, where we give our
(07:35):
development clients, developmentstaff clients, this assessment
tool, which immediately allowsus to see whether they're left
brain or right brain.
Okay, right.
So we have data.
We have data that shows us whatthey are, right?
Then, of course, we want to seeif they're in the right
position.
Right?
You don't want a right brainMegan spending half of her time
(07:59):
in the office working throughdata.
SPEAKER_03 (08:02):
No, right?
She becomes a very unhappy Meganvery quickly.
SPEAKER_00 (08:06):
But what happens in many, many cases is that because
of what the reports that theboard wants to see, the reports
that other people want to see,the reports that you have to
turn into case, all of thatstuff drives you over to the
left side of it and keeps youout.
So one of one of our disruptionsis we believe that all
(08:27):
development staff members,whether they're running the CRM,
annual fund or whatever, are allmajor gift officers.
Because the ultimate goal, theultimate goal is to get major
gifts, particularly in the worldthat we live in today.
Sure.
It takes a lot of hundred dollargifts to make a million dollars,
right?
Yes.
And so we want the everybody onthe team thinking major gifts.
(08:50):
So how can my annual fund, howcan this letter help get us
there?
But then we want to divide theteam so that you have the left
brain team, you have the rightbrain team.
The goal is for the right brainteam to be on the road 80% of
the time or dealing with people80% of the time.
Okay.
The left side hands them thedata that they need, the left
(09:12):
side does the report, the leftside does the research.
But in you, as you know, Megan,you and I, as right brain
people, which I am, we couldlook at data and read it totally
different than the person whoproduced the data.
Yes.
And that's valuable.
That's valuable, but you don'twant me spending my time doing
the data, right?
(09:32):
Right.
So if you're fortunate enough tohave a team, you want to make
sure you have both.
I'm gonna give you an example.
When my wife and I got married,we decided we wanted to be a
one-car family.
And so we went to the we went tothe car lot, we walked on the
car lot, and I immediately sawthe car I wanted.
(09:54):
It was the right color, I likedthe style, it had all the stuff
in it, and said, I want that.
Her response was, oh no.
We need three months of lookingat consumer reports, we need to
go do five test drives of othercars and make sure we're getting
the most efficient, effectivecar that we can get, right?
Oh my.
So we decided instead ofbecoming divorced, that we would
(10:16):
be a two-car family.
Well, we see that happening allthe time in development, in
development shops, where they'vehired good people, but they've
got them in the wrong places andthey don't have the big vision,
and they don't use vocabularythat's motivating and
stimulating.
(10:37):
I love the science and soul, Ilove magic and you know, and
logic, right?
And I like to see, we like tosee our clients using that kind
of words talking about theirtheir job assignments, and it's
um, and it's really, reallyproductive.
Now, what's really difficult isif you're a one-person shop,
(10:59):
sure, and you know, in mostnonprofits, there's more of
those than there are the others.
Yeah.
So, what you got to do isanalyze what it is that you have
to do into two two divisions.
I've got the left brain work Igot to do, I got the right brain
work I got to do, and you haveto compartmentalize and you have
to be in different environments,right?
(11:21):
So when I have my left brainwork, I got to get done, I want
to be totally focused, I want tobe in a quiet environment, I
want my computer in front of me,I want the data in front of me,
and I'm gonna close my officedoor.
But when it's time for me to bein my right thinking, I want to
be outside or I want to bestanding up, I want to be in
(11:44):
front of a whiteboard, I want toI want a marker in my hand, I
want to play music for me.
That might be classical music.
For others, it could be TaylorSwift music.
Whatever it is that motivatesthe creativity, I want to be in
that situation.
So I have to say from eight toten today, I'm gonna be left
brain, and this is theenvironment I gotta be in.
But then later on in the day,I'm gonna move over to right
(12:07):
brain and I'm gonna be there.
And unfortunately, the leftbrain always dominates.
The left brain activities alwaysdominate because we're
restricted by what we think theboard wants and the reports that
we have to turn in and all thisother stuff.
And we have a very small time,typically, if you're a
one-person shop, yeah, you'rerunning a golf tournament,
(12:30):
right?
You're not out there buildingrelationships with the key
people.
So that's that's something thatwe are just really excited about
helping think through those typethings with our clients.
SPEAKER_03 (12:44):
That's great.
So I'm curious because I soagain, I am the right brain
person.
I know for myself when I have todo left brain activities, which
does happen as much as we try toavoid it, everybody has some
component of their job thatcrosses that line, right?
SPEAKER_01 (12:58):
Right.
SPEAKER_03 (12:59):
When I have to do it, I know that what I have the
finely honed system I have formyself is that I take my laptop
and my my earbuds and I go to myfavorite coffee shop, I bribe
myself with a a good latte, andI, you know, headphones in,
focused on the environment thatworks for me.
(13:19):
Right.
And so that to me is something Iunderstand because I can I can
focus in and I can narrow down.
If somebody's listening to thisand they're going, uh the left
brain stuff is easy, I can dothat all day.
I'm curious the what it wouldlook like for somebody in that
side of it to be able tounderstand how to right brain
(13:41):
better and give themselves thatfreedom.
Because they're not gonna taketheir giant whiteboard to the
coffee shop and bribe themselveswith a latte, right?
So, how do we help those folkson the other side?
SPEAKER_00 (13:51):
And believe it or not, um we do a lot of work with
community colleges.
Okay.
And a lot of the communitycollege's presidents come from
within, they come out of theworkforce development, they come
out of student services, theycome out of some, they don't
come out of fundraising, right?
Okay, typically.
So then when when they get thereand then they're told you are
now the public face of thiscollege, and yes, you have to be
(14:14):
out there all the time, then weteach them triggers that will
allow them to step out of theircomfort zone, to do that role
like they've got to do.
But when they get through withthat gala or whatever it is that
they're in, we tell them takethe next day off because you use
(14:35):
so much energy to get out ofyour comfort zone that you don't
have the energy to get back intothe left brain world as and be
as good as you were.
So moving from left to right toright takes a lot of energy.
Yes, right?
And that's why we say if you'regonna do a gala, have the left
(14:56):
brain person the one who'shandling the registration desk.
Don't have them being one that'ssupposed to go around and meet
people.
That's just not you need themthere, sure.
But give them a role where theirleft brain fits their comfort
zone and put the right brain.
We had a young lady at thecollege I was who had been a
(15:16):
character at Disney for eightyears.
Okay, and she was assistant headof financial aid, right?
But when we had Gala Vince, Ididn't want her at the
registration desk.
No, I wanted her work in theroom, right?
So understanding where your teamis, where their natural
tendencies are, is a criticalpart of being able to build the
(15:41):
team that's going to besuccessful.
And you got to have thepresident and CEO, executive
director in the mix, and you gotto understand where they are in
the mix.
And they're forced to getoutside of their comfort zone
all the time.
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SPEAKER_01 (16:51):
Right.
SPEAKER_03 (16:51):
Right?
Because the left-brain folks aregonna prepare the report,
they're gonna give you thereport, but what I take from it,
especially if we're talkingspecifically about walking into
a major gift meeting, the waythat I look at that is going to
be different.
Talk to me a little bit aboutthe the I mean, obviously
there's some ways that thatthose ri things really
complement each other, which isgreat.
SPEAKER_01 (17:13):
Right, right.
SPEAKER_03 (17:14):
But that is also cause for some potential
kerfuffle, if you will, right?
Between a team.
I think I feel like that's adata point that or that's a
interpretation that could reallytend to maybe cause some
conflict.
So, how do we approach thosethings?
SPEAKER_00 (17:34):
So one of the that's one of the reasons that we think
everybody's title should havemajor gift in it.
And it's just a major giftofficer colon annual fund, major
gift officer colon research,major gift officer colon,
whatever.
And then we got to train theteam about how high wealth
people are major gift ownersthink.
So the person who's doing theresearch needs to know that
(17:56):
they're doing the research, notto give to the major gift
officer, they're doing theresearch so that we can get a
gift.
And so, what we want to Iinterviewed the one of the
wealthiest men in North Carolinaa couple of years ago, and I
asked him if he would teach meto think like a wealthy person.
Oh, interesting.
Right?
And so he said, Yeah, I got abunch of people, I got about 10
(18:19):
of folks come to see me everymonth asking me for money.
And every time they'representing a proposal to me, I'm
always thinking the same thing.
And it doesn't matter whatinstitution, how long they've
been doing it, how old they are,I'm always thinking the same
thing.
And I said, What's that?
And he said, How stupid theyare.
And I would say, I said, Whywould you say that?
He said, He says, Because it'salways about them and never
(18:42):
about me.
He said, Bill, every wealthyperson loves art and music.
No development person shouldever go see a high wealth person
on the first visit and not knowwhat art and music they like.
So interesting.
But how many people who areputting together the data know
that that's an important thingto know?
(19:05):
Sure.
So we got to train the datapeople to think from a major
gift officer's perspective, notfrom the major, I mean, from the
major gift donor's perspective,not from the major gift
officer's perspective.
You know, it doesn't matter.
I said, what does it matter thatI know where your children went
to college and all this stuff?
I said, that doesn't matter atall.
(19:26):
All I want to know is that youknow me.
Right?
And interesting.
So it's it's that's why I thinkeverybody has to be trained in
this thinking about major gifts.
If in fact you buy into the factthat it takes a lot of hundred
dollar gifts to get a million,and where is your team spending
their time and energy?
Right?
SPEAKER_03 (19:46):
That's such an interesting reframing.
I I actually really like that.
SPEAKER_00 (19:50):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (19:51):
Yeah, that's great.
SPEAKER_00 (19:53):
So we have a magic question, Megan, that we train
our the people that work for usto ask the first time they've
they're with the major giftprospect.
SPEAKER_03 (20:00):
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (20:01):
Because what we really want to know is what's
their heart?
What gives them joy?
And so the the question that wetrain our our clients to ask is,
and I'll ask you, Megan, I'lljust ask you this question.
I want you to answer, I want youto answer.
Megan, what was your favoritechildhood toy?
SPEAKER_03 (20:17):
Oh, so I really loved Rainbow Bright.
unknown (20:21):
Okay.
SPEAKER_03 (20:22):
Rainbow Bright was my favorite, and I had all I had
like the big stuffed doll ofher, and then all the little
plastic figurines, the allRainbow Bright.
That's my girl.
SPEAKER_00 (20:30):
And what was it about Rainbow Bright that
excited you?
SPEAKER_03 (20:34):
I love so all each color had its own person.
I'm not how familiar you arewith the world.
SPEAKER_00 (20:41):
I got four dollars.
SPEAKER_03 (20:42):
Okay, so you're with me.
Yeah, so I loved that world ofcolor and the beauty that came
with it, and each color havingits own personality.
Loved it.
SPEAKER_00 (20:50):
Yeah.
So what you've just done is showme your heart and your joy.
Right?
Because what happens every timewe ask that question of a major
gift donor, they think, oh,yeah.
Then they get a big smile, thenthey start talking with their
hands.
Yes.
And what we're doing islistening to the vocal their
vocabulary.
So when I come back to you downthe road with a proposal, I'm
(21:12):
going to be talking to you aboutall the different personalities
we have in our nonprofit.
And what's one of the challengesis they have no place to plug in
that will allow the light toturn on in their world so that
they can go out and make adifference.
So I'm using your vocabulary andyour childhood toy to build the
relationship.
Now, how many researchersunderstand that?
(21:34):
I have to imagine very few.
Correct.
And so what we've got to do isto go all the way back from hey,
this also needs to be a part ofwhat we're delivering in our
annual, in our annual fund.
This is this needs to be thelanguage that we use as we move
forward into this world.
And so that's that's why wethat's why we call ourselves
(21:54):
disruptors.
SPEAKER_03 (21:55):
But that's so interesting.
SPEAKER_00 (21:57):
It's really having an impact and it's really making
a difference, and it's it's justso much fun.
So the so going back to oneother key, you got to hire the
right people.
Right.
Yes, and we think the key tothat, and my development
psychologist uncovered this.
The key is in most cases we'reasking the wrong questions.
Right.
So, for instance, we know thatwhenever a person's gone through
(22:19):
a childhood trauma, one of twothings typically happen when
they become adults.
They either become addicts andthey use drugs and alcohol and
other things to help hide theirpain, or they become incredibly
resistant, persistent, andthey're not afraid of anything.
Right?
But that's an important uhinsight to know when you're
(22:42):
hiring somebody.
Yeah, we can teach somebody howto raise money, but to teach
somebody to be resistant, to beteach somebody to be persistent,
to teach somebody to do thattype of is different.
So asking the differentquestions is so it's really
creating a whole differentculture of a uh development
operation that we think isimportant going into the future.
SPEAKER_03 (23:06):
That's so good.
I'm I'm thinking back to there'sa an organization that I used to
work with years and years ago.
I actually don't even thinkthey're in existence anymore,
and maybe this is why.
But their development team, uhespecially around major gift
specifically, was all I feellike the frat bros who knew how
to play golf.
(23:28):
Every one of them was cookiecutter, the same personality,
the same uh manner of speaking,the same just everything about
them was cookie cutter mold thewhole way down.
And it's interesting now to hearyou talk about that.
One of the things that alwaysstruck me as I was working with
them was, you know, I don't knowthat I would send any of them to
(23:48):
go talk to somebody, you know,to a woman, for example.
Right, because they just didn'tseem to have that emotional
intelligence to be able to carryon an actual conversation about
anything then other than thesports scores.
And I it always struck me, andnow I'm able to, based on our
conversation, put some thoughtto there's such a beauty in
(24:10):
diversity of thought anddiversity of personality,
instead of just hiring peoplewho think like us.
SPEAKER_00 (24:18):
Exactly right.
SPEAKER_03 (24:19):
Right?
SPEAKER_00 (24:20):
That's so important.
It's very, very important.
It's also what we call thebarber strategy, it's
understanding the barberstrategy.
So if I've got you in myportfolio, but I am self-aware
enough to know that I might notbe the right person to go to the
next level in the conversation,then I have to find what we call
(24:42):
Barbara, that person who can goin my place or go with me to tie
into that person's personality.
And that's where we're thinkingI think we're missing one of the
greatest assets we have is ourboard members.
Our board members, we need toknow their personalities, we
(25:03):
need to know their strengths, weneed to have them committed to
go with us to see donors whenthey are the right person more
so than we are.
So there's you know, there's alot of ownership in our in our
profession.
We got a part we got a portfolioand we own it.
Yes.
We don't want anybody elseinvolved because if we get a
(25:24):
gift, they might get credit andnot us.
Sure.
But that's not what makessuccessful fundraisers.
You got to use your assets.
We say to colleges one of yourgreatest assets is your faculty.
There's nothing that a highwealth, you know, high wealth
people, you've if you're gonnabuild a relationship with them,
you gotta give them some thingsthey can't buy.
(25:47):
And what's one of those is adinner with a faculty member
who's an expert in a particulartopic that I enjoy.
So we like these small intimategatherings where we we get to
know the donor enough to knowthat they're interested in
poetry.
So we put together and invitethe our Shakespeare expert to
come have dinner with them andtalk about what they're doing.
(26:10):
So maximizing the assets thatyou have.
I can't stand it whendevelopment people say I don't
have enough resources to do whatyou're talking about.
No, they gotta get out of thatwhat they're doing is thinking
left brain, which is expenses,instead of right brain, which is
investments.
Sure.
Right?
SPEAKER_03 (26:28):
Well, and I think too, when we look at we have to
get out of the mindset of a ofviewing it as a competition.
Right.
Right?
I'm not necessarily competingwhen we create a team, and maybe
that is a little more on theright brain side, when I'm
creating a team that is viewingit as competing against each
other to accomplish theirindividual goals instead of
(26:51):
looking at the overarching goal,I do think we set ourselves up
for failure.
SPEAKER_00 (26:56):
And you know, it's very it's very seldom that I've
seen resumes of people who arefundraisers who are trying to go
to another job.
They'll talk about how muchmoney they raised.
I don't think anybody raisesmoney.
No.
I want to know what the teamraised.
Yes.
And what was your role in theteam?
Yes.
Right.
And that's that's the that's whoI want to hire is the team
(27:20):
players who are on there for theteam.
And that's how you get you getthat's how you get new jobs and
opportunities.
SPEAKER_03 (27:26):
Yeah, absolutely.
Oh, this is so interesting.
So, Bill, before we move toclose, I do want to ask one
question about this.
So if somebody's listening andthey are either maybe the head
of development, VP ofadvancement, sitting in that
kind of leadership role, ifthey're thinking, man, you know
what, I did just hire all cookiecutters of myself, or man, my
(27:49):
team is super left-brained andwe don't have the personality
side, um are there ways thatleaders can, without just firing
half your staff and rehiring newpeople, are there ways that we
can encourage that like to thinkon the other side?
(28:09):
Are there where are there waysthat we as leaders can encourage
our team to think from the otherpoint of view and to kind of
hone those skills a little bitto diversify what we've got in
the bullpit there?
SPEAKER_00 (28:22):
Yeah, so yes.
So the first thing is you gotyou got to be very self-aware of
who your team is and what theirstrengths are.
Then you gotta, then you gottaput in front of them this is
what we've got to do to besuccessful.
We call it the nine puzzlepieces for fundraising success.
And we have those nine puzzlepieces, and we say, we've got to
get all nine of these thingsdone, even though this is not
(28:43):
our our expertise.
Okay.
Right?
So who's gonna do what?
And how are we gonna help eachother get this done?
And then you compartmentalize,and so you you say to a person,
I'm gonna ask you to do thisjob.
I only want you working on itone hour a day because I know
that's outside your comfortzone, and that's gonna take you
(29:05):
more time, and then we're hereto help you if you need help
along the way.
But if you do it one hour a dayand that's 20 20 days a month,
that's 20 hours you would bespending doing something you
don't really want to do, but wegotta have in order to be
successful, right?
So we see breaking it down intowhat we call small victims,
(29:26):
okay.
And getting out of your comfortzone is a victory.
SPEAKER_03 (29:30):
Yes.
I love that.
SPEAKER_00 (29:32):
And you gotta pat yourself on the back.
We call them blizzard moments,and whenever somebody gets out
of their comfort zone andsuccessful, then go to Dairy
Queen and get a blizzard.
You gotta celebrate.
Yeah, we've gotta have fun andwhat we're doing.
SPEAKER_03 (29:50):
Yeah, I love that.
Um, so real quick before aswe're wrapping up, tell us a
little bit about Bright Dot andthe the organization that you or
the organizations that you workwith.
SPEAKER_00 (30:00):
Yes.
So we we work with, we typicallysay we work with underdogs.
Those are organizations thatdon't have the resources and the
perks that other organizationsaround them have.
So I'm I live in Raleigh, NorthCarolina, in the middle of the
triangle, and we've got DukeCarolina and uh NC State right
(30:20):
here.
SPEAKER_01 (30:21):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (30:21):
Right.
And they got all kinds of perksat a university.
Oh.
So how do you compete?
How do you compete against them?
So we do, we do, we've workedwith 45 community colleges the
last couple of years.
We've worked with majoruniversities.
And I think if you're lookingfor a new way to get larger
results, then we're somebody youshould look at.
(30:42):
Because we're gonna we're gonnaget you thinking differently.
We're gonna try to get youenergized.
We're gonna talk about emotionalintelligence.
You know, we certainly knowabout portfolios and we know how
to do legacy society.
Matter of fact, the person on myteam, we have 14 people on our
team.
The person who does our legacywork founded and started the
(31:03):
plan giving program at St.
Jude's Hospital.
Oh wow.
So we know what we're doing.
I was a college president.
Absolutely.
I was a college president.
We know what we're doing.
But we gonna we call ourselvesartists.
We want to bring the art intothe science of fundraising.
And so that's what we that'swhat we're about.
And we teach them to ask crazyquestions like childhood toys
(31:26):
and things brilliant.
They've never thought of before.
Yes.
SPEAKER_03 (31:30):
Yeah, brilliant.
I love that one.
So good.
Okay, so as we close, thequestion that I have been asking
everyone, every guest so farthis season, you know, uh
obviously nonprofits areregularly under the gun and
regularly taking on the toughwork.
This year they have certainlyhad their fair share, maybe more
than their fair share, ofdiscouragements and upset.
(31:53):
So if you were to offer onepiece of wisdom or encouragement
to nonprofit leaders at thisparticular point in time, what
would that be?
What would that come what wouldthat look like?
SPEAKER_00 (32:08):
The power of ten deep breaths.
We have a performancepsychologist on our team who for
a while trained the trained thespecial forces to jump out of
airplanes, knowing that whenthey hit the ground in
Afghanistan, they were going tobe shot at with machine guns.
And I said, Well, gosh, that'slike being a major gift officer.
It's the same emotions.
I said, How do you do that?
(32:29):
She said, through 10 deepbreaths.
Whenever you're feeling anxious,whenever you something's
happened, just sit back, closeyour eyes, take 10 deep breaths,
and then get on with it.
SPEAKER_03 (32:41):
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (32:42):
That's what we think is part of the part of the
magic.
SPEAKER_03 (32:46):
Oh, I love that.
And I will certainly be puttingit into practice myself.
SPEAKER_00 (32:50):
It works.
SPEAKER_03 (32:52):
I'm sure.
I'll let you know how it goes.
SPEAKER_00 (32:54):
Good.
SPEAKER_03 (32:55):
Well, Bill, thank you.
This conversation has beenreally interesting.
It's certainly a differentapproach to team and also to
major gifts.
So I really appreciate all ofyour wisdom and insight.
Thanks for being here today.
SPEAKER_00 (33:05):
I loved it, Megan.
And um, our our why at BrightGod is to impact 100 million
lives over the next 10 years.
And we do that by empoweringnonprofits to have more revenue
so they can serve more people.
And that ripple effect.
And we'll never know if we getto 100 million lives, but we
know we're making a differencein the groups.
SPEAKER_03 (33:24):
That's awesome.
And there's nothing better thanthat.
SPEAKER_00 (33:26):
That's right.
SPEAKER_03 (33:27):
You can go to sleep at night knowing that you have
impacted the world for good.
There's nothing more rewarding.
SPEAKER_00 (33:33):
Especially in the world we're living in right now,
right?
SPEAKER_03 (33:35):
Absolutely.
Bill, thank you so much.
Uh again, my guest, uh, my guesttoday has been Bill Crouch,
who's the CEO of Bright Dot.
My name is Megan Speer.
I'm the executive director hereat Nonprofit Hub and the host of
the Nonprofit Hub Radio Podcast.
We'll see you next time.
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