May 16, 2024 • 57 mins
I couldn't help but grin ear to ear when Monster Mike shared his unexpected pivot from a cutlery salesman to an avant-garde crypto artist; it's that sort of unpredictability that spices up our latest episode. Embark on an auditory odyssey with us as Mike, a maestro of the digital canvas, recounts his gastronomic escapades in Singapore's hawker markets and his trailblazing journey through the burgeoning world of NFTs. He's not shy about the realities of the art scene, offering pearls of wisdom for emerging talent in the digital realm, and emphasizing that true quality and authenticity are the cornerstones of success.
Our conversation was a smorgasbord of topics, each more tantalizing than the last. We waxed poetic about shared passions, from the transcendental experience of witnessing a solar eclipse to indulging in the world's finest cheeses. Mike drew parallels between the art of food and the art of tech, unpacking how the Silicon Valley 'rush-to-market' ethos often undercuts the value of patience and craftsmanship. And for those on the cusp of adulthood or those simply seeking a renaissance in their careers, Mike's reflections on identifying one's true calling amidst life's noise strike a chord.
As we wrapped up our session with laughter and a few off-tangent tales, Mike unveiled a sneak peek into his upcoming endeavors, including the innovative Polytick game and his non-linear comic book project birthed from live art sessions. It's clear that Monster Mike is not just creating art; he's weaving a vibrant tapestry of community and storytelling that continues to evolve with each project. So, if you're craving a conversation that's as rich and varied as a well-aged cheese platter, tune in and let your inspiration soar with the incomparable Monster Mike.
https://twitter.com/monstermike_art
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
NorCal Guy (00:01):
Who is this guy?
Who is this guy?
Who is this guy, who is thisguy, norcal, guy, norcal and
chill podcast.
Monster Mike (00:18):
So it's chill time , norcal, and chill podcast.
What the f***?
Norcal and chill podcastPodcast.
What the sh-.
What the sh NorCal and ShillPodcast.
So it's Shill time, norcal, and.
NorCal Guy (00:28):
Shill Podcast what the sh what the sh-?
Hey, everyone, welcome to thisnext episode of NorCal and Shill
.
Today we have Monster Mike.
Mike delves into topics rangingfrom the culinary world, like
unusual foods and spicy noodlegames, to the challenges and
(00:50):
insights of the crypto art space.
Mike advises aspiring artiststo focus on quality and
authenticity rather than quickprofits.
Mike also shares his globalculinary interests and recounts
his experiences with Michelinstar street food in Singapore
and, additionally, he discusseshis personal journey, touching
(01:13):
on past jobs and his shifttowards NFT trading and digital
art creations.
This discussion wraps up withshared memories, like watching
the solar eclipse, and a mutualappreciation for various
cuisines and cheeses.
Altogether, this episode offersa blend of food talk, art
(01:34):
insights and personal storiesfrom Monster Mike's diverse
experiences.
Tune in for this engagingconversation on Knorr, cal and
Schill.
Hey, mike, welcome to thepodcast.
How you doing today?
Monster Mike (01:47):
I'm good.
NorCal Guy (01:48):
Thank you for having me yeah, well, you know, it's
kind of random and kind of funand I'm glad I just you crossed
my timeline.
I think it was a couple weeksago.
I was just like he should be onthe podcast.
I should was going to send himan invite, so it worked out.
Monster Mike (02:07):
Worked out, great dude.
Thank you very much.
I'm excited to be here.
NorCal Guy (02:11):
Yeah, I appreciate it, and you having a good day.
Monster Mike (02:16):
Pretty good.
I'm a little under the weather.
I got sick at NFT NYC actuallya month ago and then I got
better after a couple weeks andthen I flew home from new york
to la um this past week and I'mI got really sick again.
So other than that, good day,perfect perfect.
NorCal Guy (02:37):
At least it's sunny outside, I believe in southern
california it is.
Monster Mike (02:42):
Yeah, socal's nice is, norcal nice it is.
It's a great day.
This past weekend was reallystormy up here.
We had hail in Southern.
NorCal Guy (02:44):
California it is.
Yeah, SoCal's nice Is, NorCalnice it is.
It is a great day.
This past weekend was reallystormy up here.
We had hail and really strongwinds.
A ton of rain.
Monster Mike (02:53):
Nice.
Well, I'm glad it's not badanymore.
NorCal Guy (02:56):
Right Cabin fever it's real and it sucks on those
days sometimes, yeah.
So what were your thoughts whenyou heard about this whole?
And it sucks on those dayssometimes, yeah, so what were
your thoughts when you heardabout this whole crypto art
space?
Monster Mike (03:11):
Oh boy, dude, I well, I mean, you know, like
most people.
I saw the shoot.
What's his name?
I'm having a brain fart.
Beeple, why can't I?
I forgot the name.
People brief with it.
It's not a giant 69 eath, no,69 million people, sale, yeah
(03:32):
and uh.
Apologies, again, I'm a littleunder the weather so my brain is
like operating at 60.
But, um, yeah, I mean it, itwas interesting, you know,
because it's like it wasinteresting.
You know, because it's likelike money.
A lot of people still feel thisway, especially in, like the
traditional art world.
(03:53):
I've found they don'tunderstand the concept of
digital scarcity and being ableto collect a digital piece of
art.
So, like, when I saw, oh,there's a mechanism where you
can actually have ownership forthese things, that was hugely
exciting.
But, again, a lot of peopletoday still don't see that.
Like, I showed a piece in Dubaiand it was to an older
(04:14):
clientele, because a lot ofthose galleries they're
traditional collectors, theylike photography and stuff like
that, and they were like, oh, isit a video game?
I was like, no, I was like whatit's like digital art?
And they're like what's that?
So, even though you and I arelike, oh, I get it digital art.
(04:35):
There's still a large chunk ofthe world that they just have to
wrap their head around it, andit'll take a little while, you
know.
NorCal Guy (04:42):
Yeah, yeah.
Monster Mike (04:51):
They had to maybe wrap their head around
cryptocurrency first and then,oh well, that's over.
NorCal Guy (04:54):
I actually think it's easier to just say digital
sculpture and they go oh okay,oh yeah, all right, yeah, yeah,
fair yeah, fair explainingdigital currency that's.
Monster Mike (05:02):
I mean, I guess you're like it's like dollars,
but digital okay.
NorCal Guy (05:07):
I guess, that's it.
Monster Mike (05:08):
It's like x, but digital.
NorCal Guy (05:16):
I mean, yeah, it's hard, it's a hard one.
I mean it is weird.
It is weird to have digitalscarcity well it's.
Monster Mike (05:27):
I think it's awesome, like my most.
The things I'm most excitedabout in digital art are all, uh
, rooted in reality, right, solike and I think my personal
philosophy is, for this is youknow, we live in reality, people
have been on Earth for quite awhile, so making digital stuff
(05:49):
that is like reality is just thebest.
It just like rings a chord inour head that everything else,
nothing else, compares Like.
I do think the early ages ofthe Internet it was like too new
, you know, it was too different.
But now that we're kind ofcoming full circle it's like no,
(06:11):
no, digital stuff is likereality, feels familiar and it's
kind of understandable.
If you just let yourself go toit, you know, right, right yeah,
I don't know.
NorCal Guy (06:19):
Yeah, I mean it's definitely, it's definitely a
transition for sure.
I mean it's definitely easierfor, like the, the younger
generation, for sure they get it100%.
They grew up on it.
Monster Mike (06:31):
Yeah, no, but I guess what I'm saying is like I
think it's natural to like havedigital stuff be scarce and obey
the laws of reality, Like it.
Just I think it think it liketickles a very innate part of
the brain.
NorCal Guy (06:48):
you know, you can see that, yeah, bringing, I
don't know yeah, like it's may,applying a real world um things
to it.
So it has.
Yeah, I mean, because in thereal world, scarcity is a thing.
We are careful with things thatwe value because they're scarce
(07:10):
.
You know there's only so many.
Well, because you don't want tobuy it again, you don't want to
lose it, you don't want to dothat.
Monster Mike (07:17):
So I don't know, just a, just a hunch.
I think you know we'reapproaching the, the singularity
of the digital simulation.
It's like everything will justbe like reality, but digital.
And then we start over In a notcreepy way.
NorCal Guy (07:37):
Start inception Going deeper and deeper.
Exactly the digital digital.
Exactly the digital digital.
So why did you choose art I?
Monster Mike (07:52):
really didn't really ask your question.
NorCal Guy (07:54):
I'm sorry no, this is a great start to the
interview.
Let's keep going so whatbrought you to art?
What brought you to art?
Monster Mike (08:05):
oh man, so I've always drawn.
Um, my mom always encouraged it, it's.
It's like I've always, I'vealways drawn.
It's been very natural.
I have all of my little doodlesfrom like childhood and I
remember how I felt for each one, what I was thinking of, like
(08:28):
I'll see this like scribble andI'll be like that's my goldfish,
like I remember that guy.
You know, it's just always beenvery natural and very, pretty
deep in my brain.
And then, yeah, I mean I didsome art lessons as a kid but I
didn't really like how they likethey had like a structure for
(08:51):
doing art.
I didn't love that.
So I do, I remember oncequitting an art class and like
being very conflicted and crying.
You know it was a whole thing.
I was like eight.
And then, you know, you know,in school I always excelled at
art.
I did ceramics and glassblowing in high school, which
was really fun.
I always had a good mind for 3din particular.
(09:14):
I always really liked drawingand doing 3d stuff.
So I, growing up, my wholething was I'm gonna be an
architect and I went, went toFrank Lloyd Wright camp in
Arizona, taliesin West, hissummer home, like built models,
did all this stuff, didinternships.
And then in college I studiedarchitecture.
So and that that was reallyinteresting because it taught me
(09:37):
a lot about um, graphic designactually, and graphic
representation.
There's certain like standardsfor architecture, how to
communicate depth, surfacemateriality, highlight different
objects, um, but, but rooted in3d.
So art was always there.
But I did for much of my lifethink I will use this artistic
(10:01):
talent to be an architectbecause that feels like a real
job.
But then in school, inarchitecture school, it was not
a great fit and it has nothingto do with the medium, it's more
, the industry itself ofarchitecture is soul crushing
and hugely debilitating toanyone with a heart and I say
(10:25):
that a little bit as a joke, butalso very much not as a joke
and I'm sure if there arearchitects out there listening
they're like yeah, there's agreat quote from Virgil Abloh,
who also studied architecture,where he said everybody should
study architecture, no oneshould be an architect and what
(10:48):
this.
I like.
If you've been in architecture,you get this essentially in
architecture school.
They they teach you how tothink about creative issues in a
really practical way, how toget stuff done, because you know
you have to design a building,so you have to break down into
parts.
It's a huge undertaking, but,um, if you want to go a building
, so you have to break down intoparts.
It's a huge undertaking.
But if you want to go into theindustry, you essentially have
(11:09):
to be what they call a CADmonkey, where you work on
AutoCAD for the first 10 yearsfor very little pay, no credit,
long hours.
Architects often die in their40s or 50s because they sleep so
little.
This is true.
So long story short.
(11:30):
Architecture was not a good fit.
I could spend the whole podcastcomplaining about architecture,
but I won't because that's notwhat we're here to do, and I do
that plenty in real life.
But architecture school is alsovery good because it taught me
how to think, taught me a lotabout graphic representation,
more 3D stuff, also about how tothink about space, how people
(11:50):
use it.
So then I got into NFTs.
I started NFTs right before Igraduated architecture school
and I was just trading at first,did very well in the beginning,
and then I'm not a good trader,so I lost it all, which hurt
and was a whole great lessonunto itself.
(12:11):
Um, but I I didn't want to leavethe space because it was so
much fun.
You know like.
It just seemed like this iswhere it's at.
This is art, this is tech, thisis money, this is culture, this
is everything.
And I was like, oh, I've alwaysdone art and my character that
I draw jeff, I'd been drawing atthat point for like eight years
, right so and it.
(12:33):
But it was just like personal.
It was like doodles for myself,cards for my family, like
birthday cards.
Mother's day did a coupleshirts for like my sister, and
everyone was like you shouldsell this.
And I was like I don't know how, like what, I, you know what,
yeah.
And then, um, but I was in nftsand I had lost all my money and
I had this moment where I waslike I don't want to leave and I
(12:55):
have this character and I seeother people making, selling
stuff with stuff that I think isjust very stupid.
Maybe someone was like jeff andhe wasn't even called jeff at
that point.
He was just like my buddy, youknow.
Okay.
So I was like, well, he needs aname, how about jeff?
And I was like that's jeff.
(13:16):
And then, um, I posted a, ajeff as like a pfp, just for,
and it was just like a, you know, like this post to enter the
raffle.
It got like five likes and thenI minted it and I gave it out
to someone.
Oh no, I think it was 0.01.
It was something.
It was like I have to get somemoney for this so I know I could
(13:38):
stay in, but nobody knows me soit can't be expensive, so I
think it was like 0.01.
It was like 20 bucks.
And then later that year I hadmy first mural in Wynwood and
then a few months later I had ashow in New York for the AR
thing.
And now we're here.
(13:58):
It was like that.
So how I got into art, alwaysbeen there and then NFTs was
like oh, maybe I could actuallylike live off of this.
NorCal Guy (14:10):
I like it.
I like it.
That's fun and a little crazy,but fun.
So okay, before art, beforearchitecture, if you did any
work, as in that realm, whatkind of jobs did you have, like
in high school, like?
Monster Mike (14:29):
Oh boy, or call it early college.
Ooh, so I never.
This is another reason why NFTsare perfect for me.
I never was one to enjoy jobslike that and I just can't hide
stuff like that, you know.
So I think my first job, do youknow?
(14:51):
Cutco?
Yeah, oh yeah, knife salesman,yep.
So that slash pyramid schemeborderline.
So my sister she's a coupleyears older than me she did
Cutco when she was in highschool and she like got to like
their private event in Vegas.
(15:13):
Okay, like she like did verywell.
And so you know, I grew up likealways trying event in Vegas
Okay, it like she liked it verywell.
And so you know, I grew up likealways trying to sell stuff.
So I did Cutco for a bit, um,and I made some money, but I
think I quit after like threedays Cause I was like this sucks
, like, I did the training for aweek, I sold for like three
days and I think I made like ahundred bucks and then I quit.
(15:39):
I was like this sucks, like Ihate this, um, and I then, uh,
so in high school I also did, Itried e-commerce because like
that was a thing, yeah, so thishat actually.
So I had a store called savethe north and I was like,
because I've always been like Ilove nature and I always loved
polar bears, I ran the polarbear club in high school, which
ended up being about nothing butme and my friends chanting
(16:03):
polar bears.
I was very dumb because Iwanted to do a polar plunge club
.
They wouldn't let us forliability reasons, so it just
became appreciating polar bears,anyways.
So I did e-commerce, save theNorth.
I did okay for a little bit andI realized I really just wanted
to make clothes and art, so Igot these hats made.
(16:23):
This is a puffin puffin, whichis a pun that my mother thought
of.
He's smoking a pipe and he's apun all right.
And I actually sold these hatsonline and to friends and it did
okay.
And then, being the hold on,I'm plugging in my computer the,
um, the, the extra savvybusinessman that I was.
(16:46):
I sold out the first batch ofhats and I had a whole another
batch made, but I didn't thinkthat I had no more market
because I'd sold all my friendsalready and they didn't want two
hats.
So then I just wound up sittingon like 50 hats that I still
have.
But now that I wear this, in afew events people actually have
asked to buy it.
So I'm going to actually sellthose from high school Right,
(17:07):
there you go.
So I did that.
I did Cutco e-commerce incollege.
I worked at a fried chickenrestaurant called Honeybird at
USC and I was their master piecutter.
They liked me because I couldcut pies perfectly Like.
They told me that that was like.
My only job was to cut the pies.
(17:29):
But then architecture school hadso much time commitment I had
to reduce my work hours to likelike twice a week for like an
hour.
So after the semester endedthey did not invite me back.
They told me they didn't fireme.
But they said you will not beinvited back, which is
essentially being fired.
So then I also had a couplearchitecture internships Didn't
(17:54):
didn't care for them, really.
I learned, like I don't.
A couple architectureinternships Didn't care for them
, really.
I learned like I don't reallylike architecture as a
profession.
I love the art of it, but theindustry itself is different, as
I'm sure a lot of creativeindustry people can relate to.
And then I did so my last job.
Ever before I went full time inNFTs I had I had already been
(18:19):
trading NFTs.
It was when I was doing well,it was before I lost all my
money.
So I I in in college I lovedmovies too.
I minored in screenwriting andat USC I got to study with like
all the top directors, the topdirectors, the top screenwriters
, people who wrote for myfavorite shows, for my teachers
reading what I wrote, and they,you know it was really cool,
(18:41):
yeah.
So I was like I don't.
I know I don't really like thearchitectural industry, but I
have these skills.
Maybe I'll.
I'll try something in setdesign for the movies.
So I got a job, yeah, and I feelso, and I feel so bad because
it was these really everyone'sso nice.
You know, I say I don't likethe industry, but the people are
very friendly.
So I worked in this smalloffice Do you know like Studio
(19:04):
City, yeah, where it's like athousand degrees and it's like
an hour and a half from where Ilive.
So I got this job up there andit was doing set design for the
Oscars, the Emmys, all the bigaward shows.
It was like a big deal, yeah,and I lasted four days and then
(19:27):
that was my last job.
So art is a much better fitbecause I can do whatever I want
.
I got my own schedule.
I get to talk to people anddraw, you know Perfect.
I've do whatever I want.
I got my own schedule.
I get to talk to people anddraw.
You know Perfect.
I've learned who I am throughtrial and error and I am not a
yeah, I like it.
NorCal Guy (19:46):
I like it yeah.
Monster Mike (19:48):
I'm sure it's not unique.
In NFTs People do their ownthing, you know.
Poker players abound.
NorCal Guy (19:54):
This is true, this is true.
This is true.
So, I mean, I feel like I knowthe answer to this, but if you
were an animal, what would yoube and why?
Monster Mike (20:05):
Oh, definitely a bear.
Polar bear comes to mindDefinitely, because it's like a
little bit lazy but kind of big.
You know, I used to be obese.
People called me well, I will,I will dot.
Anyways, they called me notnice things.
Um, yeah, and so I've alwaysbeen like bigger, a little bit
(20:30):
slower moving.
I'm not a sprinter, I'm not acheetah, I'm more of a slow
moving, broad strokes kind ofguy.
So yeah, probably polar bearalright, alright, that's fair
what about?
You oh, octopus oh, interesting, why that's a smart one.
NorCal Guy (20:52):
I mean partly because you know they can like,
they just observe, they can hide, they camouflage really well,
but like I had a saltwater tankfor a couple years, um, and I
always wanted a pet octopus.
I never got one but justbecause they're so interesting,
(21:12):
like to have them as a pet,because they're like friendly,
they get to know you as a pet,because they're like friendly,
they get to know you, they youknow they have their own like
personality.
So that was always my dream tohave a pet octopus.
Monster Mike (21:24):
Never happened, but have you seen my Octopus
Teacher?
NorCal Guy (21:28):
Yes, it's really good.
Monster Mike (21:31):
Yeah, amazing, so crazy.
NorCal Guy (21:34):
That's a good one so yeah, do you have a favorite
food?
Monster Mike (21:42):
Oh boy do I dude?
I have several.
The big three for me Cheese,chocolate and cured meats.
Oh, okay, I'm a huge cheese guy.
After the VVD sale, which waslike my biggest success in life
(22:02):
the first thing I did was I wentto the cheese store and I
bought some cheese.
The second thing I did was Ibought rock climbing shoes but
because I had like yeah, it wasmy tiny splurge but cheese, oh
my god, especially alpinecheeses, blue cheeses, ah, when
I was I think it was like sixweeks old I was in diapers, I
(22:26):
couldn't speak.
Okay, my mom took me to thegrocery store and she put me in
the shopping cart and we'reshopping, at one point she puts
in a block of blue cheeseGorgonzola.
When we checked out, I hadeaten the whole thing as a baby.
I couldn't speak, but I likedblue cheese, and that still
(22:46):
holds true today.
So I would say cheese.
NorCal Guy (22:50):
That's fair Solid Parmesan's my favorite snack.
Oh yeah, when I oh man, I'mblinking on the name of it.
But there's this company.
They make like little blockspre-wrapped of Parmesan.
It's like the snack block and Ilike once I found those in the
(23:14):
grocery store and they're onlyat Safeway or what's the sister
company?
Vons, is that the sistercompany?
I always have to have thosebecause I'm like if I want a
snack, that's an easy go-to.
It's pre-cut.
I don't have to pull this bigblock out and cut it off, I just
open it and eat it.
It's so good.
Monster Mike (23:35):
See I'm a big block out and cut it off, I just
open it and eat it so good.
See, I'm a big block kind ofguy.
I, especially like you, can goto Whole Foods.
You can get chocolate and bulk,so I get that.
I get the like bulk pound ofchocolate and cheese.
I literally gnaw on it.
And my girlfriend hates it.
She's like it's like what areyou doing?
I'm like you, awesome.
(23:56):
And there's like these, likebig blocks of chocolate with
teeth marks in my kitchen.
It's really I'm not like it.
I shouldn't maybe I shouldn'thave shared that, but uh, yeah,
oh man, yeah, well, yeah I guess, part of it's just because I'm
(24:17):
like frick.
NorCal Guy (24:17):
I don't want to like wash a knife or anything like
oh you just bite it, I'm thesame true.
True I mean I could.
Monster Mike (24:27):
It's gross, that's all it's tempting it's tempting
.
You ever seen seinfeld?
You know george costanza, yeahI just want to take a big bite
out of a block of cheese.
NorCal Guy (24:41):
I get that yeah, now I can see that, I can see that,
I see the temptation and I seehow it would be appealing.
But oh, it's the best I'll alsosay, when it's thinly sliced is
also when it's really good too.
Monster Mike (24:57):
That's when you get the most flavor, especially
for, like, a good alpine cheesewhere there's like flavor
differential between the rindpart and then as you get to the
center it's different.
Yeah, you get a thin slice, youget all of it.
Oh, man, and cheese with honeytoo.
Add, try some honey.
Okay.
Also, you can get intovarieties of honey like chestnut
(25:18):
honey has a slight bitterness,okay.
So if you have chestnut honeyon a nice, say, a stilton or a
blue, you're activatingliterally every taste, but on
your tongue it's it's otherotherworldly I have to look for
that.
NorCal Guy (25:33):
I mean, I usually stick to local honey, but good,
I'll have to look for maybe somechestnut honey.
It's really weird, but anyway,yeah, around here we have a lot
of oh, what was it like?
There's some star thistle honeyand then I think it's star
(25:55):
thistle honey and then someclover honey.
Those are the ones like myfaves around here yeah, I mean.
Monster Mike (26:01):
What does star thistle honey taste like?
NorCal Guy (26:03):
it's like this weed.
It's really pretty sweet,pretty sweet honey, but light,
fairly light, like I can dip aspoon and just like lick on it,
it's good I love that.
Monster Mike (26:14):
Honey is also a big thing for me.
NorCal Guy (26:17):
I want so good I'm jealous.
Monster Mike (26:18):
I saw you interviewed og the other day.
He keeps bees and that's alifelong dream of mine.
I want bees oh yeah, yeah Ithink that would.
NorCal Guy (26:29):
if I had, if we get some more property at some point
, like move to a bigger piece ofproperty, that would be on our,
our thing, like have a littleorchard, have a little a beehive
and yeah.
Monster Mike (26:43):
Also ice cream.
Yeah, there's.
Oh man, I could talk about icecream for years.
NorCal Guy (26:53):
Custard ice cream is my favorite.
Monster Mike (26:56):
What is it?
NorCal Guy (26:57):
Custard Custard ice cream.
Oh, okay, yeah, yeah,custard-based ice cream.
Monster Mike (27:03):
There's this place in Brooklyn that has this
incredible gelato.
It's a restaurant, but theymake their own gelato and it's
very custardy.
NorCal Guy (27:16):
It's incredible, yeah well, next year I guess
I'll have to like, hit you upand be like hey, are you?
Here, oh yeah and are we goingto this place?
Monster Mike (27:25):
oh yeah, dude, it's the last time I was there.
They had um chocolate orangecardamom ice cream.
That was one flavor yeah.
Like you can't describe it.
And they had this just Italiancream, which was like their base
vanilla, but it was custardy,that's why I bring it up, you
(27:46):
would oh man, yeah, I like it,oh yeah, yeah, I like it, oh
yeah.
NorCal Guy (28:01):
so what's the best piece of advice you've been
given, or do you have like amantra that you like kind?
Monster Mike (28:05):
of like always go back to lately.
It's been.
I think I saw this on like abusiness instagram motivational
speaker thing or something, butit's like or not Instagram, uh,
I don't know.
I saw it online but it's likewhat would this be like if it
was easy?
You know, I do a thing where II overcomplicate everything.
(28:25):
When I have an idea, I'm like,oh, then we could do this and
that and that, and then I havetrouble finishing stuff.
So it's like what's beenhelping me is keeping all like,
having all those ideas, but thenhaving an extra period where I
go.
What would this be like if itwas just easy and simple?
(28:45):
And I don't like the likeSilicon Valley minimum viable
product thing where you justlike get it out the door and it
doesn't work, but like it's outthere, you know cause.
I think that's sort of um,that's.
That was a good solution wheneverything was too complex.
But I think the pendulum swungto the other side now, where we
just see a lot of schlock, likeif you saw the, uh, the, the
(29:08):
rabbit AI that came out, or thehumane pin, like it's not done,
but they're you know they'reoperating under the mvp model.
They're like just get it, getit out there and like crypto
suffers from this a lot too.
There's a lot of stuff wherethey're just like just get it
done and it's like all in thisgame to get market share, but
then what you're left with is awhole industry that's half baked
(29:29):
.
So like, I think, the sweetspot for me I I overly
complicate stuff.
So saying what would it be likeif it was simple brings me to
center um, but I do think somepeople would benefit from let's
finish this before we sell it,you know right, right, no, uh,
true, true.
NorCal Guy (29:48):
I mean it was funny to watch some of those reviews
about that rabbit device.
Oh my God, it only shipped withlike five apps or four apps or
something like that actuallywork or semi-work, and some of
them don't even work.
Monster Mike (30:04):
Dude and the Humane pin had like nothing it
was like, but they and it's 700bucks, I don't know, it's just
like, it's crazy.
NorCal Guy (30:13):
Yeah, that reminds me of, like the icos, you know,
over like 2017.
Like the white paper says this,this and this.
Monster Mike (30:23):
You know it's in the works it's nft's last bull
or it's like they're building agame guys.
It's like, where are any ofthese games?
You know, I mean nothing, yeah,but yeah, that's, that's fully
like silicon valley mindset andit works great for like
(30:44):
short-term money, but they allfall.
NorCal Guy (30:48):
You know, I don't know so do you have advice for
artists joining this crypto artspace?
Monster Mike (30:58):
oh yeah, if you're just now joining, well, okay, a
few things first.
Just because something isexpensive doesn't mean it's good
, and that was maddening to mein the beginning because I was
very much believing what peoplesaid.
(31:19):
That's nothing.
Don't believe what people say.
Think for yourself, becausepeople be like oh, this is the
next so and so, and you're likethis and what they're.
They're just saying that to getmoney.
It doesn't, it's not true.
So think for yourself, have abrain.
That's step one.
Um, step two move to new yorkthis is, like all, the worst
(31:46):
advice.
So why I say that is if you'retrying to sell art, all the big
collectors are, or not all, butlike there's a higher
concentration in New York thanmost other cities, I would say
New York and Dubai.
This is I haven't done as muchresearch in Dubai, but this is
what I've heard.
So if you're serious abouttrying to sell your art, go
(32:07):
there and just meet them anddon't try to sell, but just meet
them.
And then, if you're three, makegood work.
And if you're making good workand you meet people, I think
it's only natural that they, ifyou can present it to them in a
non-shilly way, some of themwill want it Not all, but some,
and that's all you need.
(32:27):
But yeah, do good work.
I do think the space suffers attimes from people.
Just Like in the beginning ofthe first bowl, the work was
amazing, and the reason the workwas amazing was because it was
from artists who had beenworking in obscurity for years
(32:49):
and who only did the art not tosell but to make art, which is
what art should be.
So they made this stuff fornobody other than themselves,
and then it just so happenedthat there was a new way to sell
it, and that's why it did well.
And so you have these productsthat had been worked on for
years and years and years.
Like tyler hobbs has beenworking on fidenza for many
years, right, not directly, butlike he'd been playing with it.
(33:11):
And then, oh, artblocks comesalong.
Fidenza's perfect.
But then you got to a pointwhere the machine had to keep
going.
They had to keep feeding it newart, but there was no new art,
so artists would just go quicklymake stuff, and so you did see
a quality drop off becausepeople hadn't put in as much
time.
And I'm not saying everythingwas like that, but I think the
(33:32):
general trend was in thebeginning it was like how is
there so much good art?
And then it was like how didthat sell for so much?
The narrative switched, youknow, and that's fine, um, but
like focus, just focus on makinggood stuff.
Don't don't do it for money,like just do it because you got
to do it.
I think that is what separatesAll the true artists in the
(33:55):
space recognize each otherbecause they're not doing it for
anybody other than themselves.
And then it just so happensthat, oh, if you present it well
, you meet the right people,then it can sell for a good
price, good price.
But then there is like a sortof underground thing where
(34:15):
there's like, anyways, I'm,maybe we'll avoid going into
that.
Um, but yeah, some advice.
Yeah, just to summarize youknow, that's fair yeah you, you
saw where it was going.
We're not going there.
Um, just to summarize, thinkfor yourself, go where the
people are and do good work, andif you do all that and you live
(34:39):
very cheaply at first, you'llbe okay.
I do think you can.
I still think it's sustainableto be a full-time artist and
went through.
I see a lot of people sayingit's, it's harder now.
Oh, no one's buying.
But I think part of that is, um, misaligned expectations, like
if you have bull marketexpectations, you're going to be
(34:59):
disappointed.
But if you have expectations ofjust making one or two decent
sales per year or a good numberof smaller sales and not living
well, you know not being like mylifestyle.
I'm not spending tons of money,I'm trying to live very cheaply
.
When I was in New York for thepast couple months, my biggest
(35:22):
expense was rent and then Itried to cook and then I got a
girlfriend and my food billswent up because we had to go out
more, because you know you haveto have a nice time nice time
but even so, I was always veryfrugal, um, for now.
But I'm definitely like playingthe long-term game of I want to
increase my reputation now anddo better work now, and I do
(35:43):
believe there'll be another bull, and I want to be ready baby,
because then we can live large,you know, and that's also why
you meet collectors, so they cantake you out to meals.
NorCal Guy (36:02):
Yeah, exactly, some of them do that, some of them
don't.
Monster Mike (36:05):
And it's okay, but you know, just have fun with it
.
I don't know, just like I don'tknow, just like I don't know,
yeah.
NorCal Guy (36:14):
So if you could move or live anywhere, where would
you live and why?
Monster Mike (36:22):
oh boy.
Well, the many places I mean.
I'm from la.
I love, love LA.
It's beautiful here, myfamily's here, friends.
New York is also spectacular.
These are both the places I'velived most recently.
New York oh my God, the food,just what's happening.
So many people, it's reallycool.
(36:42):
But also in my life, I'd liketo live in Singapore for
probably a year.
Singapore I'm a huge food guy.
As I said earlier, used to beobese, medically obese.
Food is very important for me.
Singapore they have Michelinstar street food.
If you've never been, have youbeen?
(37:03):
No, I have not Michelin starstreet food.
NorCal Guy (37:07):
Okay, that sounds amazing, it sounds weird, but it
sounds.
Monster Mike (37:13):
It sounds amazing.
No, it's amazing.
They have these hawker marketswhere it's like it's essentially
big food courts, but they haveall these tiny stalls and you
just go each, each meal is liketwo dollars.
So you're like I'm gonna get ahuge thing of noodles, I, I'm
going to get some chicken satay,I'm going to get some chili
crab, I'm going to get somefresh sugar cane juice, some
(37:33):
shaved ice.
You just end up with thismountain of food and it costs
you like $10.
And it's all delicious.
The weather is beautiful, thearchitecture is amazing, they're
very green and natural.
Some people don't like Singaporebecause they have a strict no
drug policy, but like I'm not ahuge drug guy, so I just the
(37:56):
food, you know.
Um, also, it'd be nice to livein tokyo, maybe for, maybe for
like a year.
My mom lived in japan for sevenyears and so, like I've been,
tokyo is amazing, not Ireland,ireland is too depressing.
Maybe Iceland for like a couplemonths, I don't know.
(38:19):
Maybe Dubai for a little,although you got to stick to the
nice parts of Dubai.
The rest of it it's like.
It's like Las Vegas, you know.
Right, yeah, have you been toDubai yet?
No, nope, have you been toDubai yet?
NorCal Guy (38:29):
No, nope.
Monster Mike (38:33):
It's weird, but parts of it are spectacular,
like their mall.
You walk in there's a dinosaurskeleton.
Oh, wow, okay, wow.
They have a three-storyaquarium filled with sharks
across from a cheesecake factory.
You're like where this isinsane.
(38:56):
It's like it's kind of cool,yeah.
NorCal Guy (38:59):
Yeah, one day, one day, yeah.
Do you have any questions forme?
Monster Mike (39:09):
Oh, quite a few.
Well, first of all, um, I knowyou saw the eclipse with Scoble
Scobell, yeah, yeah, yeah hetold me you guys were going on
that.
How was that?
NorCal Guy (39:22):
that was fun.
That was really cool.
Um, you know, it's definitely.
You know, if you get a chanceto check it out, I would do it
if it's you know nearby, becauseit's definitely.
You know, if you get a chanceto check it out, I would do it
If it's you know nearby, becauseit's like this three, when
you're in totality, it's like a360 degree sunset.
Monster Mike (39:39):
That's insane.
NorCal Guy (39:40):
Yeah.
Monster Mike (39:42):
So, yeah, it's kind of cool, was it spiritual?
NorCal Guy (39:48):
No, no, I mean we thought there was going to be
less people, kind of where wewere, but maybe we should have
gone to a more remote location.
But yeah, yeah, that'sinteresting, it was good.
Would you do it again?
(40:08):
Yeah.
I would do it again.
It was really cool okay, Iguess.
Monster Mike (40:17):
Another question I have is what's your favorite
food?
NorCal Guy (40:23):
man, I, if I'm gonna stick to like a genre of food,
it would be mexican food I lovemexican food so much.
I'll just eat rice and beans.
I'll eat burritos, tacos, carneasada it's my favorite meat
(40:44):
from that, uh, from mexican food.
So yeah, I just love it.
It's such I don't know.
I grew up with it, I grew up inSouthern California and I just
Mexican food is just like a partof me.
Monster Mike (40:55):
I feel like I agree with you there.
I love you really like Mexicanfood.
If you start with, I could justeat rice and beans.
True, true, true.
Yeah, you're at the most basiclevel of that cuisine dude.
NorCal Guy (41:14):
It's true, man, I'll .
I'll make my own beans at home.
My wife will make some cilantrorice or something.
Just put it together, throwsome cheese or cotija cheese on
it.
Monster Mike (41:26):
Oh god and uh, it's good I love those like um,
those sort of atypical cheeseslike cotia or like um halloumi,
you know, like grilling cheeses,uh, okay okay, yeah, you know
what I'm talking about.
NorCal Guy (41:45):
I'm gonna have to look up humili.
I am, I am not.
Oh, you don't know, halumi.
Monster Mike (41:51):
Oh my God.
Okay, so it's like MiddleEastern grilling cheese.
NorCal Guy (41:55):
Oh, okay.
Monster Mike (41:57):
It's I would call it's slightly rubbery, but not
in a bad way.
Okay, and you grill it and itgets these beautiful golden
brown grill marks and it's alittle salty and it's just
phenomenal.
Golden brown grill marks andit's a little salty and it's
just phenomenal.
It's similar to cotija in termsof it's like less crumbly, but
it's a similar genre of cheese.
NorCal Guy (42:19):
Okay, alright, I'm going to look that up.
I'm going to see if I can findsome.
Monster Mike (42:25):
Oh, it's at most grocery stores.
It's way overpriced, though.
That's what bugs me.
NorCal Guy (42:30):
At most grocery stores.
It's way overpriced, thoughthat's what bugs me At most
grocery stores.
Okay, yeah, I will have to.
I don't know why.
I just don't.
That just doesn't ring a bellfor me.
Monster Mike (42:42):
I feel like have you ever, have you had Middle
Eastern food?
Yeah, I'm sure you've had tohave had it, or, like I don't
know, maybe a mediterraneanrestaurant dude another.
Um.
So my girlfriend is persian andshe's shown me a lot of persian
food.
Oh, those guys have some goodrice, they do rice totally
(43:07):
differently from anywhere inasia or from mexico.
NorCal Guy (43:10):
Very different, very good yeah, I'm a food man.
I like, I like a good, goodfood, wherever it's from.
Monster Mike (43:21):
Just oh yeah, I just want good food what's the
weirdest thing you've ever eaten?
NorCal Guy (43:27):
uh, I'm not gonna have anything that interesting.
Um, I can't even.
Uh, I don't know if it's weirdanymore like I.
I remember I tried some likeprotein bars made from crickets.
That's not that weird thoughLike from cricket flour they
(43:51):
call it flour.
I think it's called cricketflour or something like that.
Monster Mike (43:58):
Much better than ground crickets.
NorCal Guy (44:01):
And they weren't bad .
They weren't bad at all.
But I don't venture down theweird.
It's not my thing.
Monster Mike (44:11):
I just want enjoyable.
No, that's better Me and myfriends in college.
There's this restaurant onSautel in little Osaka in LA
called Killer Noodle.
Okay, and it's like their wholething is it's super spicy, so
we used to do this thing.
(44:32):
You go and you can order likeyour spice level and this other
spice, uh, sancho pepper, whichnumbs your tongue.
So you can get more spicebecause your mouth is numb.
So we'd go and we'd likecompete to see who could eat the
spiciest one, and I won once,but it was not worth it.
The same thing of like I don'tventure you not wanting exotic
(44:56):
foods.
Yeah, I get that.
It's not like you just enjoyyour food yeah, yeah, there's no
.
NorCal Guy (45:06):
Yeah, I mean, I've had no.
It's not weird, though, like Ifeel I'm blanking and I went to
this restaurant in san franciscoand they had I want to say they
called it golden caviar andthat was pretty good oh, what is
that?
It's just like all the like uh,clear, white, goldish color
(45:30):
eggs in one place it's fish.
Monster Mike (45:34):
Yeah, I mean, caviar is great.
NorCal Guy (45:39):
Yes, oh man.
Well, that's cool.
Nothing that weird.
Monster Mike (45:46):
That's good.
Yeah, I don't think you'remissing anything crazy Nothing
that weird.
NorCal Guy (45:54):
That's good.
Yeah, I don't think you'remissing anything.
Crazy.
Funny thing you talk aboutspice.
I was at Lowe's and this year Ihave seen I've never seen ghost
pepper plants for sale beforeAt Lowe's.
There was at Lowe's ghostpepper plants for sale before
(46:15):
and there was at lowe's ghostpepper plants for sale.
I'm like who's even going toeat these?
Like people are not.
Well, people are dumb.
But did they not realize whatthis pepper is like?
Monster Mike (46:24):
well, I feel like when I was a kid.
I remember, yeah, ghost pepperswere like everyone was like
it's the hottest pepper and thenI feel like a year later there
was a new one and now thepeppers are like 20 times hotter
.
They're like this thing willlike damage your organs if you
touch it to your skin.
Like who's making this?
(46:46):
You know Right who's enjoyingthis, like.
NorCal Guy (46:49):
Who's making this, you know Right.
Monster Mike (46:51):
Who's enjoying this?
I mean there are people likespice just burns your taste buds
.
So like I have a friend, myfriend, adam, his he says his
grandpa, his grandpa's like thisold Israeli dude, he's like he
just eats ghost peppers, like hecan't taste anything, he just
(47:12):
like eats peppers.
It's like there are old, oldpeople from different parts of
the world that just like that'stheir life, they just eat spicy
food different strokes fordifferent folks, man yeah no,
(47:32):
it's a.
It's a different way to live,for sure any other questions?
NorCal Guy (47:39):
what any other questions?
Monster Mike (47:42):
well, I don't know .
I mean I could, I couldinterview you too sometime.
You should, when you're, whenyou're next to new york, I host
interview, I interview people innew york.
So at station three, shout outstation three.
So next time you're there I'llgive you an interview, because I
, I mean, I I'm the type of guywho I'm like.
So where were you born, like,what was your family like
(48:04):
growing up?
You know, like I did that, uh,with sam sprat on this one
interview and he, he was verygracious, but afterwards he was
like I, he, I forget what hesaid, but it was something like
that was a weird interview.
He said in a very gracious,friendly way, but I knew that
(48:27):
was the subtext.
It was like huh that's funny.
NorCal Guy (48:33):
So do you have any shout outs?
Not a shout outs, but do youhave any upcoming projects or
stuff in the works you'd like totalk about?
Monster Mike (48:44):
oh, dude, I have like a bunch of cool stuff.
First I mean I yeah, yes, I doSome of it I can't talk about
fully yet, but I can share somedetails after, but the stuff I
can talk about, um well, I'm, ohman, where to start, so my
(49:08):
whole thing.
So I do a lot of the AR andI've become a little bit better
known for that.
But I also just like, like, Idraw a lot and it's not AR, but
I think it has artistic meritand you know, they sort of feed
each other.
So my first project in thespace is called Jeff Town and it
(49:33):
was that first Jeff.
I posted and it's like longstory short.
I started it two years ago.
I'm wrapping it up finally.
So there's like about 100 ofthem so far.
They're all one-on-one animatedPFPs and I'm going to be
concluding that series by doinglike 20 more that.
(49:54):
Oh, I think it cut out.
Are you still there?
NorCal Guy (50:00):
there we go.
Uh, yeah, like cut out for alittle bit and then came right
back.
Monster Mike (50:04):
Yeah we're back.
So I'm concluding je town.
It's two years in the making.
I'm very excited to wrap it up.
We have this great littlecommunity of folks who have been
supporting me from the verybeginning.
Shout out to everyone in Jefftown.
They're like.
It gave me all of my startingopportunities.
So I'm going to be wrapping upJeff town, giving out the last
(50:27):
few to friends who have helpedme over the past couple years to
say thank you and get them inthe community.
I'm also going to be releasingmy first shirts, finally.
They've been in the works awhile and this so a little
clothing drop, all very lownumbers, like not trying to do
anything crazy.
The AR is definitely theattention-getting stuff and this
(50:49):
is more like the fun,definitely the attention getting
stuff, and this is more likethe fun support, the existing
community stuff.
So wrapping up those things andthen going to be doing a second
showing of the piece bbd justbought in new york in probably
july, as well as showing a newpiece that is I'm very excited
(51:09):
for because it's got some stuffthat I've never seen ever.
I'm very excited about that.
That's like most immediatestuff.
Then there's also a projectcoming out, probably Q3.
I've just learned this term, q3.
(51:31):
Which essentially means summerfor non-business folk, and this
is something I'm really excitedabout.
It's not AR, but we're going tosee how people like it.
It's a total experiment.
So I'll just talk about thatreal quick and then that'll be
(51:51):
the end of my little shill.
And then I want to tell you onecool thing that's private,
after All, right.
So at Station 3, my buddy, eddie, hosted this event called
Station 3 by the Sea, where heinvited all these people out to
his parents' house by the beachand we just had a little art
show and he invited me to dosome live art there.
(52:12):
So, long story short, I endedup having people sit down with
me one-on-one and tell me astory and out of that story came
a single panel, okay.
So it was really really cool.
It was just kind of like achance thing that happened.
I had this idea, we tried it.
It worked great.
But what happened was peoplereally opened up in a really
(52:37):
interesting way.
So I had I had somebody tell meabout accidentally meeting his
biological father.
Right, I had like, like peoplegot really heavy, people who I
didn't know super well, I hadmet a few weeks earlier.
They got really deep because Ijust invited them to tell me a
story and the only parameter wasit has to be true.
(52:58):
It doesn't have to be like nonnon-fiction, but it has to have
a soul and a heart and be likeauthentic, right.
So some people told mefictional stuff.
But I ended up with thesepanels and each one had this
deep story at its root and itwas.
It was really cool.
So I started doing it some more.
So at different events Iinvited people to come tell me a
(53:19):
story, and every time it'sphenomenal.
So in the end I'm left withthese eight by eight canvases
and I've scanned them.
And I'm working with a friend ofmine uh, did D, I, I D, who's
great at on-chain art.
He's, he releases a bunch ofcool tools for the on-chain
community.
He did the smart contract forthe piece we would be bought,
(53:40):
with all this additionalfunctionality.
Um, we're working together todo a kind of game that for the
moment I'm calling do, a kind ofgame that for the moment I'm
calling Polytick gameP-O-L-Y-T-Y-C-H Not Polyticks,
but Polytick, like Diptych,Triptych, etc.
The idea is I'm going to airdropthese story panels to everybody
(54:04):
who told me the story.
It's all free, just for fun.
But then there's a mechanismwhere, if you collect two or
more stories, you can mint themtogether to create a sort of
non-linear comic book panel typething.
So okay, so this is somethingI'm just going to keep inviting
people to tell me stories forthe next many years, hopefully,
(54:26):
minting them for free and thenencouraging people to try to buy
other people's stories tocombine them into this
interesting tableau.
Right, and it's like anexperiment in meaning making,
like the meaning comes from thatperson into the canvas, but
then you can see meaning insomeone else's piece.
Maybe you relate to that.
You can combine them.
(54:46):
So I'm sort of thinking of itlike somewhere in between
Monument Game and the inverse ofChex, but like its own thing
altogether, you know.
So, instead of Chex, you'regoing from something big into
something small.
This is something small.
You're trying to collect miniand create a bigger thing, and
then, yeah, so it's oh, blessyou.
(55:08):
Oh, you're smart.
You muted.
I've been coughing on mic thiswhole time like a bozo.
I should have done that.
Dang, that's embarrassing.
Now you still can't hear you.
Oh, now I can hear you.
All right you're good, you'regood you're smart, you, oh, now
(55:33):
I can hear you all right, you'regood, you're good, you're smart
anyways, so that we're tryingto launch that, uh, probably in
the summer, and uh, yeah, so if,if we're at an event together,
I'm gonna try to have canvaseswith me and paint pens and just
sit down, tell these littlestories and then I, anyways, I
have some other plans for itthat could make it even cooler,
but that's kind of where it's atnow and it's sort of an ongoing
(55:53):
project that I can contributeto.
It's just something I enjoy andthis is a framework so that
other people can participate init.
You know, huh, okay, so that'sa non-AR thing that I'm really
excited about.
And then AR stuff oh man, somejust crazy stuff that is still
(56:15):
in the technological developmentphase, stuff.
I almost got arrested for partof this.
It's really cool.
Okay, I can't talk about thedetails, but it is like it's the
, it's like, oh, my God, somepeople know what I'm talking
about, but I've I've beenadvised to stop talking about it
(56:35):
because I'm telling everybodyand it's not going to be done
for a couple of months and Idon't want to, you know so yeah
but I'll give you some hintsafter Awesome.
NorCal Guy (56:47):
Well, mike, I want to say thank you so much for
this entertaining and funconversation that we had, and I
appreciate you spending sometime with me today well, thank
you for having me.
Monster Mike (57:01):
That was a lot of fun.
Hopefully I didn't go offtangent too much, but uh, yeah,
had a good time it's all good.
NorCal Guy (57:09):
I hope you have a great day and we'll be chatting
real soon okay, awesome dude.
Monster Mike (57:14):
Thanks so much.
Have a good day too who is thisguy?
NorCal Guy (57:19):
who is this guy?
Who is this guy, who is thisguy, who is this guy?
Norcal guy, norcal guy, norcalguy, norcal guy, norcal and
chill.
Norcal guy, norcal guy, norcalguy, norcal guy, norcal guy,
norcal guy, norcal guy, norcalguy, norcal and chill.
Monster Mike (57:34):
Podcast Chill it's chill time, norcal and chill
Podcast.
What the what the Chill?
Norcal and chill Podcast.
Chill it's chill time, norcaland chill Podcast.
Who is this guy?
Who is this guy?
Who is this guy, who is thisguy, norcal, guy, norcal and
chill podcast.
Monster Mike (00:18):
So it's chill time , norcal, and chill podcast.
What the f***?
Norcal and chill podcastPodcast.
What the sh-.
What the sh NorCal and ShillPodcast.
So it's Shill time, norcal, and.
NorCal Guy (00:28):
Shill Podcast what the sh what the sh-?
Hey, everyone, welcome to thisnext episode of NorCal and Shill
.
Today we have Monster Mike.
Mike delves into topics rangingfrom the culinary world, like
unusual foods and spicy noodlegames, to the challenges and
(00:50):
insights of the crypto art space.
Mike advises aspiring artiststo focus on quality and
authenticity rather than quickprofits.
Mike also shares his globalculinary interests and recounts
his experiences with Michelinstar street food in Singapore
and, additionally, he discusseshis personal journey, touching
(01:13):
on past jobs and his shifttowards NFT trading and digital
art creations.
This discussion wraps up withshared memories, like watching
the solar eclipse, and a mutualappreciation for various
cuisines and cheeses.
Altogether, this episode offersa blend of food talk, art
(01:34):
insights and personal storiesfrom Monster Mike's diverse
experiences.
Tune in for this engagingconversation on Knorr, cal and
Schill.
Hey, mike, welcome to thepodcast.
How you doing today?
Monster Mike (01:47):
I'm good.
NorCal Guy (01:48):
Thank you for having me yeah, well, you know, it's
kind of random and kind of funand I'm glad I just you crossed
my timeline.
I think it was a couple weeksago.
I was just like he should be onthe podcast.
I should was going to send himan invite, so it worked out.
Monster Mike (02:07):
Worked out, great dude.
Thank you very much.
I'm excited to be here.
NorCal Guy (02:11):
Yeah, I appreciate it, and you having a good day.
Monster Mike (02:16):
Pretty good.
I'm a little under the weather.
I got sick at NFT NYC actuallya month ago and then I got
better after a couple weeks andthen I flew home from new york
to la um this past week and I'mI got really sick again.
So other than that, good day,perfect perfect.
NorCal Guy (02:37):
At least it's sunny outside, I believe in southern
california it is.
Monster Mike (02:42):
Yeah, socal's nice is, norcal nice it is.
It's a great day.
This past weekend was reallystormy up here.
We had hail in Southern.
NorCal Guy (02:44):
California it is.
Yeah, SoCal's nice Is, NorCalnice it is.
It is a great day.
This past weekend was reallystormy up here.
We had hail and really strongwinds.
A ton of rain.
Monster Mike (02:53):
Nice.
Well, I'm glad it's not badanymore.
NorCal Guy (02:56):
Right Cabin fever it's real and it sucks on those
days sometimes, yeah.
So what were your thoughts whenyou heard about this whole?
And it sucks on those dayssometimes, yeah, so what were
your thoughts when you heardabout this whole crypto art
space?
Monster Mike (03:11):
Oh boy, dude, I well, I mean, you know, like
most people.
I saw the shoot.
What's his name?
I'm having a brain fart.
Beeple, why can't I?
I forgot the name.
People brief with it.
It's not a giant 69 eath, no,69 million people, sale, yeah
(03:32):
and uh.
Apologies, again, I'm a littleunder the weather so my brain is
like operating at 60.
But, um, yeah, I mean it, itwas interesting, you know,
because it's like it wasinteresting.
You know, because it's likelike money.
A lot of people still feel thisway, especially in, like the
traditional art world.
(03:53):
I've found they don'tunderstand the concept of
digital scarcity and being ableto collect a digital piece of
art.
So, like, when I saw, oh,there's a mechanism where you
can actually have ownership forthese things, that was hugely
exciting.
But, again, a lot of peopletoday still don't see that.
Like, I showed a piece in Dubaiand it was to an older
(04:14):
clientele, because a lot ofthose galleries they're
traditional collectors, theylike photography and stuff like
that, and they were like, oh, isit a video game?
I was like, no, I was like whatit's like digital art?
And they're like what's that?
So, even though you and I arelike, oh, I get it digital art.
(04:35):
There's still a large chunk ofthe world that they just have to
wrap their head around it, andit'll take a little while, you
know.
NorCal Guy (04:42):
Yeah, yeah.
Monster Mike (04:51):
They had to maybe wrap their head around
cryptocurrency first and then,oh well, that's over.
NorCal Guy (04:54):
I actually think it's easier to just say digital
sculpture and they go oh okay,oh yeah, all right, yeah, yeah,
fair yeah, fair explainingdigital currency that's.
Monster Mike (05:02):
I mean, I guess you're like it's like dollars,
but digital okay.
NorCal Guy (05:07):
I guess, that's it.
Monster Mike (05:08):
It's like x, but digital.
NorCal Guy (05:16):
I mean, yeah, it's hard, it's a hard one.
I mean it is weird.
It is weird to have digitalscarcity well it's.
Monster Mike (05:27):
I think it's awesome, like my most.
The things I'm most excitedabout in digital art are all, uh
, rooted in reality, right, solike and I think my personal
philosophy is, for this is youknow, we live in reality, people
have been on Earth for quite awhile, so making digital stuff
(05:49):
that is like reality is just thebest.
It just like rings a chord inour head that everything else,
nothing else, compares Like.
I do think the early ages ofthe Internet it was like too new
, you know, it was too different.
But now that we're kind ofcoming full circle it's like no,
(06:11):
no, digital stuff is likereality, feels familiar and it's
kind of understandable.
If you just let yourself go toit, you know, right, right yeah,
I don't know.
NorCal Guy (06:19):
Yeah, I mean it's definitely, it's definitely a
transition for sure.
I mean it's definitely easierfor, like the, the younger
generation, for sure they get it100%.
They grew up on it.
Monster Mike (06:31):
Yeah, no, but I guess what I'm saying is like I
think it's natural to like havedigital stuff be scarce and obey
the laws of reality, Like it.
Just I think it think it liketickles a very innate part of
the brain.
NorCal Guy (06:48):
you know, you can see that, yeah, bringing, I
don't know yeah, like it's may,applying a real world um things
to it.
So it has.
Yeah, I mean, because in thereal world, scarcity is a thing.
We are careful with things thatwe value because they're scarce
(07:10):
.
You know there's only so many.
Well, because you don't want tobuy it again, you don't want to
lose it, you don't want to dothat.
Monster Mike (07:17):
So I don't know, just a, just a hunch.
I think you know we'reapproaching the, the singularity
of the digital simulation.
It's like everything will justbe like reality, but digital.
And then we start over In a notcreepy way.
NorCal Guy (07:37):
Start inception Going deeper and deeper.
Exactly the digital digital.
Exactly the digital digital.
So why did you choose art I?
Monster Mike (07:52):
really didn't really ask your question.
NorCal Guy (07:54):
I'm sorry no, this is a great start to the
interview.
Let's keep going so whatbrought you to art?
What brought you to art?
Monster Mike (08:05):
oh man, so I've always drawn.
Um, my mom always encouraged it, it's.
It's like I've always, I'vealways drawn.
It's been very natural.
I have all of my little doodlesfrom like childhood and I
remember how I felt for each one, what I was thinking of, like
(08:28):
I'll see this like scribble andI'll be like that's my goldfish,
like I remember that guy.
You know, it's just always beenvery natural and very, pretty
deep in my brain.
And then, yeah, I mean I didsome art lessons as a kid but I
didn't really like how they likethey had like a structure for
(08:51):
doing art.
I didn't love that.
So I do, I remember oncequitting an art class and like
being very conflicted and crying.
You know it was a whole thing.
I was like eight.
And then, you know, you know,in school I always excelled at
art.
I did ceramics and glassblowing in high school, which
was really fun.
I always had a good mind for 3din particular.
(09:14):
I always really liked drawingand doing 3d stuff.
So I, growing up, my wholething was I'm gonna be an
architect and I went, went toFrank Lloyd Wright camp in
Arizona, taliesin West, hissummer home, like built models,
did all this stuff, didinternships.
And then in college I studiedarchitecture.
So and that that was reallyinteresting because it taught me
(09:37):
a lot about um, graphic designactually, and graphic
representation.
There's certain like standardsfor architecture, how to
communicate depth, surfacemateriality, highlight different
objects, um, but, but rooted in3d.
So art was always there.
But I did for much of my lifethink I will use this artistic
(10:01):
talent to be an architectbecause that feels like a real
job.
But then in school, inarchitecture school, it was not
a great fit and it has nothingto do with the medium, it's more
, the industry itself ofarchitecture is soul crushing
and hugely debilitating toanyone with a heart and I say
(10:25):
that a little bit as a joke, butalso very much not as a joke
and I'm sure if there arearchitects out there listening
they're like yeah, there's agreat quote from Virgil Abloh,
who also studied architecture,where he said everybody should
study architecture, no oneshould be an architect and what
(10:48):
this.
I like.
If you've been in architecture,you get this essentially in
architecture school.
They they teach you how tothink about creative issues in a
really practical way, how toget stuff done, because you know
you have to design a building,so you have to break down into
parts.
It's a huge undertaking, but,um, if you want to go a building
, so you have to break down intoparts.
It's a huge undertaking.
But if you want to go into theindustry, you essentially have
(11:09):
to be what they call a CADmonkey, where you work on
AutoCAD for the first 10 yearsfor very little pay, no credit,
long hours.
Architects often die in their40s or 50s because they sleep so
little.
This is true.
So long story short.
(11:30):
Architecture was not a good fit.
I could spend the whole podcastcomplaining about architecture,
but I won't because that's notwhat we're here to do, and I do
that plenty in real life.
But architecture school is alsovery good because it taught me
how to think, taught me a lotabout graphic representation,
more 3D stuff, also about how tothink about space, how people
(11:50):
use it.
So then I got into NFTs.
I started NFTs right before Igraduated architecture school
and I was just trading at first,did very well in the beginning,
and then I'm not a good trader,so I lost it all, which hurt
and was a whole great lessonunto itself.
(12:11):
Um, but I I didn't want to leavethe space because it was so
much fun.
You know like.
It just seemed like this iswhere it's at.
This is art, this is tech, thisis money, this is culture, this
is everything.
And I was like, oh, I've alwaysdone art and my character that
I draw jeff, I'd been drawing atthat point for like eight years
, right so and it.
(12:33):
But it was just like personal.
It was like doodles for myself,cards for my family, like
birthday cards.
Mother's day did a coupleshirts for like my sister, and
everyone was like you shouldsell this.
And I was like I don't know how, like what, I, you know what,
yeah.
And then, um, but I was in nftsand I had lost all my money and
I had this moment where I waslike I don't want to leave and I
(12:55):
have this character and I seeother people making, selling
stuff with stuff that I think isjust very stupid.
Maybe someone was like jeff andhe wasn't even called jeff at
that point.
He was just like my buddy, youknow.
Okay.
So I was like, well, he needs aname, how about jeff?
And I was like that's jeff.
(13:16):
And then, um, I posted a, ajeff as like a pfp, just for,
and it was just like a, you know, like this post to enter the
raffle.
It got like five likes and thenI minted it and I gave it out
to someone.
Oh no, I think it was 0.01.
It was something.
It was like I have to get somemoney for this so I know I could
(13:38):
stay in, but nobody knows me soit can't be expensive, so I
think it was like 0.01.
It was like 20 bucks.
And then later that year I hadmy first mural in Wynwood and
then a few months later I had ashow in New York for the AR
thing.
And now we're here.
(13:58):
It was like that.
So how I got into art, alwaysbeen there and then NFTs was
like oh, maybe I could actuallylike live off of this.
NorCal Guy (14:10):
I like it.
I like it.
That's fun and a little crazy,but fun.
So okay, before art, beforearchitecture, if you did any
work, as in that realm, whatkind of jobs did you have, like
in high school, like?
Monster Mike (14:29):
Oh boy, or call it early college.
Ooh, so I never.
This is another reason why NFTsare perfect for me.
I never was one to enjoy jobslike that and I just can't hide
stuff like that, you know.
So I think my first job, do youknow?
(14:51):
Cutco?
Yeah, oh yeah, knife salesman,yep.
So that slash pyramid schemeborderline.
So my sister she's a coupleyears older than me she did
Cutco when she was in highschool and she like got to like
their private event in Vegas.
(15:13):
Okay, like she like did verywell.
And so you know, I grew up likealways trying event in Vegas
Okay, it like she liked it verywell.
And so you know, I grew up likealways trying to sell stuff.
So I did Cutco for a bit, um,and I made some money, but I
think I quit after like threedays Cause I was like this sucks
, like, I did the training for aweek, I sold for like three
days and I think I made like ahundred bucks and then I quit.
(15:39):
I was like this sucks, like Ihate this, um, and I then, uh,
so in high school I also did, Itried e-commerce because like
that was a thing, yeah, so thishat actually.
So I had a store called savethe north and I was like,
because I've always been like Ilove nature and I always loved
polar bears, I ran the polarbear club in high school, which
ended up being about nothing butme and my friends chanting
(16:03):
polar bears.
I was very dumb because Iwanted to do a polar plunge club
.
They wouldn't let us forliability reasons, so it just
became appreciating polar bears,anyways.
So I did e-commerce, save theNorth.
I did okay for a little bit andI realized I really just wanted
to make clothes and art, so Igot these hats made.
(16:23):
This is a puffin puffin, whichis a pun that my mother thought
of.
He's smoking a pipe and he's apun all right.
And I actually sold these hatsonline and to friends and it did
okay.
And then, being the hold on,I'm plugging in my computer the,
um, the, the extra savvybusinessman that I was.
(16:46):
I sold out the first batch ofhats and I had a whole another
batch made, but I didn't thinkthat I had no more market
because I'd sold all my friendsalready and they didn't want two
hats.
So then I just wound up sittingon like 50 hats that I still
have.
But now that I wear this, in afew events people actually have
asked to buy it.
So I'm going to actually sellthose from high school Right,
(17:07):
there you go.
So I did that.
I did Cutco e-commerce incollege.
I worked at a fried chickenrestaurant called Honeybird at
USC and I was their master piecutter.
They liked me because I couldcut pies perfectly Like.
They told me that that was like.
My only job was to cut the pies.
(17:29):
But then architecture school hadso much time commitment I had
to reduce my work hours to likelike twice a week for like an
hour.
So after the semester endedthey did not invite me back.
They told me they didn't fireme.
But they said you will not beinvited back, which is
essentially being fired.
So then I also had a couplearchitecture internships Didn't
(17:54):
didn't care for them, really.
I learned, like I don't.
A couple architectureinternships Didn't care for them
, really.
I learned like I don't reallylike architecture as a
profession.
I love the art of it, but theindustry itself is different, as
I'm sure a lot of creativeindustry people can relate to.
And then I did so my last job.
Ever before I went full time inNFTs I had I had already been
(18:19):
trading NFTs.
It was when I was doing well,it was before I lost all my
money.
So I I in in college I lovedmovies too.
I minored in screenwriting andat USC I got to study with like
all the top directors, the topdirectors, the top screenwriters
, people who wrote for myfavorite shows, for my teachers
reading what I wrote, and they,you know it was really cool,
(18:41):
yeah.
So I was like I don't.
I know I don't really like thearchitectural industry, but I
have these skills.
Maybe I'll.
I'll try something in setdesign for the movies.
So I got a job, yeah, and I feelso, and I feel so bad because
it was these really everyone'sso nice.
You know, I say I don't likethe industry, but the people are
very friendly.
So I worked in this smalloffice Do you know like Studio
(19:04):
City, yeah, where it's like athousand degrees and it's like
an hour and a half from where Ilive.
So I got this job up there andit was doing set design for the
Oscars, the Emmys, all the bigaward shows.
It was like a big deal, yeah,and I lasted four days and then
(19:27):
that was my last job.
So art is a much better fitbecause I can do whatever I want
.
I got my own schedule.
I get to talk to people anddraw, you know Perfect.
I've do whatever I want.
I got my own schedule.
I get to talk to people anddraw.
You know Perfect.
I've learned who I am throughtrial and error and I am not a
yeah, I like it.
NorCal Guy (19:46):
I like it yeah.
Monster Mike (19:48):
I'm sure it's not unique.
In NFTs People do their ownthing, you know.
Poker players abound.
NorCal Guy (19:54):
This is true, this is true.
This is true.
So, I mean, I feel like I knowthe answer to this, but if you
were an animal, what would yoube and why?
Monster Mike (20:05):
Oh, definitely a bear.
Polar bear comes to mindDefinitely, because it's like a
little bit lazy but kind of big.
You know, I used to be obese.
People called me well, I will,I will dot.
Anyways, they called me notnice things.
Um, yeah, and so I've alwaysbeen like bigger, a little bit
(20:30):
slower moving.
I'm not a sprinter, I'm not acheetah, I'm more of a slow
moving, broad strokes kind ofguy.
So yeah, probably polar bearalright, alright, that's fair
what about?
You oh, octopus oh, interesting, why that's a smart one.
NorCal Guy (20:52):
I mean partly because you know they can like,
they just observe, they can hide, they camouflage really well,
but like I had a saltwater tankfor a couple years, um, and I
always wanted a pet octopus.
I never got one but justbecause they're so interesting,
(21:12):
like to have them as a pet,because they're like friendly,
they get to know you as a pet,because they're like friendly,
they get to know you, they youknow they have their own like
personality.
So that was always my dream tohave a pet octopus.
Monster Mike (21:24):
Never happened, but have you seen my Octopus
Teacher?
NorCal Guy (21:28):
Yes, it's really good.
Monster Mike (21:31):
Yeah, amazing, so crazy.
NorCal Guy (21:34):
That's a good one so yeah, do you have a favorite
food?
Monster Mike (21:42):
Oh boy do I dude?
I have several.
The big three for me Cheese,chocolate and cured meats.
Oh, okay, I'm a huge cheese guy.
After the VVD sale, which waslike my biggest success in life
(22:02):
the first thing I did was I wentto the cheese store and I
bought some cheese.
The second thing I did was Ibought rock climbing shoes but
because I had like yeah, it wasmy tiny splurge but cheese, oh
my god, especially alpinecheeses, blue cheeses, ah, when
I was I think it was like sixweeks old I was in diapers, I
(22:26):
couldn't speak.
Okay, my mom took me to thegrocery store and she put me in
the shopping cart and we'reshopping, at one point she puts
in a block of blue cheeseGorgonzola.
When we checked out, I hadeaten the whole thing as a baby.
I couldn't speak, but I likedblue cheese, and that still
(22:46):
holds true today.
So I would say cheese.
NorCal Guy (22:50):
That's fair Solid Parmesan's my favorite snack.
Oh yeah, when I oh man, I'mblinking on the name of it.
But there's this company.
They make like little blockspre-wrapped of Parmesan.
It's like the snack block and Ilike once I found those in the
(23:14):
grocery store and they're onlyat Safeway or what's the sister
company?
Vons, is that the sistercompany?
I always have to have thosebecause I'm like if I want a
snack, that's an easy go-to.
It's pre-cut.
I don't have to pull this bigblock out and cut it off, I just
open it and eat it.
It's so good.
Monster Mike (23:35):
See I'm a big block out and cut it off, I just
open it and eat it so good.
See, I'm a big block kind ofguy.
I, especially like you, can goto Whole Foods.
You can get chocolate and bulk,so I get that.
I get the like bulk pound ofchocolate and cheese.
I literally gnaw on it.
And my girlfriend hates it.
She's like it's like what areyou doing?
I'm like you, awesome.
(23:56):
And there's like these, likebig blocks of chocolate with
teeth marks in my kitchen.
It's really I'm not like it.
I shouldn't maybe I shouldn'thave shared that, but uh, yeah,
oh man, yeah, well, yeah I guess, part of it's just because I'm
(24:17):
like frick.
NorCal Guy (24:17):
I don't want to like wash a knife or anything like
oh you just bite it, I'm thesame true.
True I mean I could.
Monster Mike (24:27):
It's gross, that's all it's tempting it's tempting
.
You ever seen seinfeld?
You know george costanza, yeahI just want to take a big bite
out of a block of cheese.
NorCal Guy (24:41):
I get that yeah, now I can see that, I can see that,
I see the temptation and I seehow it would be appealing.
But oh, it's the best I'll alsosay, when it's thinly sliced is
also when it's really good too.
Monster Mike (24:57):
That's when you get the most flavor, especially
for, like, a good alpine cheesewhere there's like flavor
differential between the rindpart and then as you get to the
center it's different.
Yeah, you get a thin slice, youget all of it.
Oh, man, and cheese with honeytoo.
Add, try some honey.
Okay.
Also, you can get intovarieties of honey like chestnut
(25:18):
honey has a slight bitterness,okay.
So if you have chestnut honeyon a nice, say, a stilton or a
blue, you're activatingliterally every taste, but on
your tongue it's it's otherotherworldly I have to look for
that.
NorCal Guy (25:33):
I mean, I usually stick to local honey, but good,
I'll have to look for maybe somechestnut honey.
It's really weird, but anyway,yeah, around here we have a lot
of oh, what was it like?
There's some star thistle honeyand then I think it's star
(25:55):
thistle honey and then someclover honey.
Those are the ones like myfaves around here yeah, I mean.
Monster Mike (26:01):
What does star thistle honey taste like?
NorCal Guy (26:03):
it's like this weed.
It's really pretty sweet,pretty sweet honey, but light,
fairly light, like I can dip aspoon and just like lick on it,
it's good I love that.
Monster Mike (26:14):
Honey is also a big thing for me.
NorCal Guy (26:17):
I want so good I'm jealous.
Monster Mike (26:18):
I saw you interviewed og the other day.
He keeps bees and that's alifelong dream of mine.
I want bees oh yeah, yeah Ithink that would.
NorCal Guy (26:29):
if I had, if we get some more property at some point
, like move to a bigger piece ofproperty, that would be on our,
our thing, like have a littleorchard, have a little a beehive
and yeah.
Monster Mike (26:43):
Also ice cream.
Yeah, there's.
Oh man, I could talk about icecream for years.
NorCal Guy (26:53):
Custard ice cream is my favorite.
Monster Mike (26:56):
What is it?
NorCal Guy (26:57):
Custard Custard ice cream.
Oh, okay, yeah, yeah,custard-based ice cream.
Monster Mike (27:03):
There's this place in Brooklyn that has this
incredible gelato.
It's a restaurant, but theymake their own gelato and it's
very custardy.
NorCal Guy (27:16):
It's incredible, yeah well, next year I guess
I'll have to like, hit you upand be like hey, are you?
Here, oh yeah and are we goingto this place?
Monster Mike (27:25):
oh yeah, dude, it's the last time I was there.
They had um chocolate orangecardamom ice cream.
That was one flavor yeah.
Like you can't describe it.
And they had this just Italiancream, which was like their base
vanilla, but it was custardy,that's why I bring it up, you
(27:46):
would oh man, yeah, I like it,oh yeah, yeah, I like it, oh
yeah.
NorCal Guy (28:01):
so what's the best piece of advice you've been
given, or do you have like amantra that you like kind?
Monster Mike (28:05):
of like always go back to lately.
It's been.
I think I saw this on like abusiness instagram motivational
speaker thing or something, butit's like or not Instagram, uh,
I don't know.
I saw it online but it's likewhat would this be like if it
was easy?
You know, I do a thing where II overcomplicate everything.
(28:25):
When I have an idea, I'm like,oh, then we could do this and
that and that, and then I havetrouble finishing stuff.
So it's like what's beenhelping me is keeping all like,
having all those ideas, but thenhaving an extra period where I
go.
What would this be like if itwas just easy and simple?
(28:45):
And I don't like the likeSilicon Valley minimum viable
product thing where you justlike get it out the door and it
doesn't work, but like it's outthere, you know cause.
I think that's sort of um,that's.
That was a good solution wheneverything was too complex.
But I think the pendulum swungto the other side now, where we
just see a lot of schlock, likeif you saw the, uh, the, the
(29:08):
rabbit AI that came out, or thehumane pin, like it's not done,
but they're you know they'reoperating under the mvp model.
They're like just get it, getit out there and like crypto
suffers from this a lot too.
There's a lot of stuff wherethey're just like just get it
done and it's like all in thisgame to get market share, but
then what you're left with is awhole industry that's half baked
(29:29):
.
So like, I think, the sweetspot for me I I overly
complicate stuff.
So saying what would it be likeif it was simple brings me to
center um, but I do think somepeople would benefit from let's
finish this before we sell it,you know right, right, no, uh,
true, true.
NorCal Guy (29:48):
I mean it was funny to watch some of those reviews
about that rabbit device.
Oh my God, it only shipped withlike five apps or four apps or
something like that actuallywork or semi-work, and some of
them don't even work.
Monster Mike (30:04):
Dude and the Humane pin had like nothing it
was like, but they and it's 700bucks, I don't know, it's just
like, it's crazy.
NorCal Guy (30:13):
Yeah, that reminds me of, like the icos, you know,
over like 2017.
Like the white paper says this,this and this.
Monster Mike (30:23):
You know it's in the works it's nft's last bull
or it's like they're building agame guys.
It's like, where are any ofthese games?
You know, I mean nothing, yeah,but yeah, that's, that's fully
like silicon valley mindset andit works great for like
(30:44):
short-term money, but they allfall.
NorCal Guy (30:48):
You know, I don't know so do you have advice for
artists joining this crypto artspace?
Monster Mike (30:58):
oh yeah, if you're just now joining, well, okay, a
few things first.
Just because something isexpensive doesn't mean it's good
, and that was maddening to mein the beginning because I was
very much believing what peoplesaid.
(31:19):
That's nothing.
Don't believe what people say.
Think for yourself, becausepeople be like oh, this is the
next so and so, and you're likethis and what they're.
They're just saying that to getmoney.
It doesn't, it's not true.
So think for yourself, have abrain.
That's step one.
Um, step two move to new yorkthis is, like all, the worst
(31:46):
advice.
So why I say that is if you'retrying to sell art, all the big
collectors are, or not all, butlike there's a higher
concentration in New York thanmost other cities, I would say
New York and Dubai.
This is I haven't done as muchresearch in Dubai, but this is
what I've heard.
So if you're serious abouttrying to sell your art, go
(32:07):
there and just meet them anddon't try to sell, but just meet
them.
And then, if you're three, makegood work.
And if you're making good workand you meet people, I think
it's only natural that they, ifyou can present it to them in a
non-shilly way, some of themwill want it Not all, but some,
and that's all you need.
(32:27):
But yeah, do good work.
I do think the space suffers attimes from people.
Just Like in the beginning ofthe first bowl, the work was
amazing, and the reason the workwas amazing was because it was
from artists who had beenworking in obscurity for years
(32:49):
and who only did the art not tosell but to make art, which is
what art should be.
So they made this stuff fornobody other than themselves,
and then it just so happenedthat there was a new way to sell
it, and that's why it did well.
And so you have these productsthat had been worked on for
years and years and years.
Like tyler hobbs has beenworking on fidenza for many
years, right, not directly, butlike he'd been playing with it.
(33:11):
And then, oh, artblocks comesalong.
Fidenza's perfect.
But then you got to a pointwhere the machine had to keep
going.
They had to keep feeding it newart, but there was no new art,
so artists would just go quicklymake stuff, and so you did see
a quality drop off becausepeople hadn't put in as much
time.
And I'm not saying everythingwas like that, but I think the
(33:32):
general trend was in thebeginning it was like how is
there so much good art?
And then it was like how didthat sell for so much?
The narrative switched, youknow, and that's fine, um, but
like focus, just focus on makinggood stuff.
Don't don't do it for money,like just do it because you got
to do it.
I think that is what separatesAll the true artists in the
(33:55):
space recognize each otherbecause they're not doing it for
anybody other than themselves.
And then it just so happensthat, oh, if you present it well
, you meet the right people,then it can sell for a good
price, good price.
But then there is like a sortof underground thing where
(34:15):
there's like, anyways, I'm,maybe we'll avoid going into
that.
Um, but yeah, some advice.
Yeah, just to summarize youknow, that's fair yeah you, you
saw where it was going.
We're not going there.
Um, just to summarize, thinkfor yourself, go where the
people are and do good work, andif you do all that and you live
(34:39):
very cheaply at first, you'llbe okay.
I do think you can.
I still think it's sustainableto be a full-time artist and
went through.
I see a lot of people sayingit's, it's harder now.
Oh, no one's buying.
But I think part of that is, um, misaligned expectations, like
if you have bull marketexpectations, you're going to be
(34:59):
disappointed.
But if you have expectations ofjust making one or two decent
sales per year or a good numberof smaller sales and not living
well, you know not being like mylifestyle.
I'm not spending tons of money,I'm trying to live very cheaply
.
When I was in New York for thepast couple months, my biggest
(35:22):
expense was rent and then Itried to cook and then I got a
girlfriend and my food billswent up because we had to go out
more, because you know you haveto have a nice time nice time
but even so, I was always veryfrugal, um, for now.
But I'm definitely like playingthe long-term game of I want to
increase my reputation now anddo better work now, and I do
(35:43):
believe there'll be another bull, and I want to be ready baby,
because then we can live large,you know, and that's also why
you meet collectors, so they cantake you out to meals.
NorCal Guy (36:02):
Yeah, exactly, some of them do that, some of them
don't.
Monster Mike (36:05):
And it's okay, but you know, just have fun with it
.
I don't know, just like I don'tknow, just like I don't know,
yeah.
NorCal Guy (36:14):
So if you could move or live anywhere, where would
you live and why?
Monster Mike (36:22):
oh boy.
Well, the many places I mean.
I'm from la.
I love, love LA.
It's beautiful here, myfamily's here, friends.
New York is also spectacular.
These are both the places I'velived most recently.
New York oh my God, the food,just what's happening.
So many people, it's reallycool.
(36:42):
But also in my life, I'd liketo live in Singapore for
probably a year.
Singapore I'm a huge food guy.
As I said earlier, used to beobese, medically obese.
Food is very important for me.
Singapore they have Michelinstar street food.
If you've never been, have youbeen?
(37:03):
No, I have not Michelin starstreet food.
NorCal Guy (37:07):
Okay, that sounds amazing, it sounds weird, but it
sounds.
Monster Mike (37:13):
It sounds amazing.
No, it's amazing.
They have these hawker marketswhere it's like it's essentially
big food courts, but they haveall these tiny stalls and you
just go each, each meal is liketwo dollars.
So you're like I'm gonna get ahuge thing of noodles, I, I'm
going to get some chicken satay,I'm going to get some chili
crab, I'm going to get somefresh sugar cane juice, some
(37:33):
shaved ice.
You just end up with thismountain of food and it costs
you like $10.
And it's all delicious.
The weather is beautiful, thearchitecture is amazing, they're
very green and natural.
Some people don't like Singaporebecause they have a strict no
drug policy, but like I'm not ahuge drug guy, so I just the
(37:56):
food, you know.
Um, also, it'd be nice to livein tokyo, maybe for, maybe for
like a year.
My mom lived in japan for sevenyears and so, like I've been,
tokyo is amazing, not Ireland,ireland is too depressing.
Maybe Iceland for like a couplemonths, I don't know.
(38:19):
Maybe Dubai for a little,although you got to stick to the
nice parts of Dubai.
The rest of it it's like.
It's like Las Vegas, you know.
Right, yeah, have you been toDubai yet?
No, nope, have you been toDubai yet?
NorCal Guy (38:29):
No, nope.
Monster Mike (38:33):
It's weird, but parts of it are spectacular,
like their mall.
You walk in there's a dinosaurskeleton.
Oh, wow, okay, wow.
They have a three-storyaquarium filled with sharks
across from a cheesecake factory.
You're like where this isinsane.
(38:56):
It's like it's kind of cool,yeah.
NorCal Guy (38:59):
Yeah, one day, one day, yeah.
Do you have any questions forme?
Monster Mike (39:09):
Oh, quite a few.
Well, first of all, um, I knowyou saw the eclipse with Scoble
Scobell, yeah, yeah, yeah hetold me you guys were going on
that.
How was that?
NorCal Guy (39:22):
that was fun.
That was really cool.
Um, you know, it's definitely.
You know, if you get a chanceto check it out, I would do it
if it's you know nearby, becauseit's definitely.
You know, if you get a chanceto check it out, I would do it
If it's you know nearby, becauseit's like this three, when
you're in totality, it's like a360 degree sunset.
Monster Mike (39:39):
That's insane.
NorCal Guy (39:40):
Yeah.
Monster Mike (39:42):
So, yeah, it's kind of cool, was it spiritual?
NorCal Guy (39:48):
No, no, I mean we thought there was going to be
less people, kind of where wewere, but maybe we should have
gone to a more remote location.
But yeah, yeah, that'sinteresting, it was good.
Would you do it again?
(40:08):
Yeah.
I would do it again.
It was really cool okay, Iguess.
Monster Mike (40:17):
Another question I have is what's your favorite
food?
NorCal Guy (40:23):
man, I, if I'm gonna stick to like a genre of food,
it would be mexican food I lovemexican food so much.
I'll just eat rice and beans.
I'll eat burritos, tacos, carneasada it's my favorite meat
(40:44):
from that, uh, from mexican food.
So yeah, I just love it.
It's such I don't know.
I grew up with it, I grew up inSouthern California and I just
Mexican food is just like a partof me.
Monster Mike (40:55):
I feel like I agree with you there.
I love you really like Mexicanfood.
If you start with, I could justeat rice and beans.
True, true, true.
Yeah, you're at the most basiclevel of that cuisine dude.
NorCal Guy (41:14):
It's true, man, I'll .
I'll make my own beans at home.
My wife will make some cilantrorice or something.
Just put it together, throwsome cheese or cotija cheese on
it.
Monster Mike (41:26):
Oh god and uh, it's good I love those like um,
those sort of atypical cheeseslike cotia or like um halloumi,
you know, like grilling cheeses,uh, okay okay, yeah, you know
what I'm talking about.
NorCal Guy (41:45):
I'm gonna have to look up humili.
I am, I am not.
Oh, you don't know, halumi.
Monster Mike (41:51):
Oh my God.
Okay, so it's like MiddleEastern grilling cheese.
NorCal Guy (41:55):
Oh, okay.
Monster Mike (41:57):
It's I would call it's slightly rubbery, but not
in a bad way.
Okay, and you grill it and itgets these beautiful golden
brown grill marks and it's alittle salty and it's just
phenomenal.
Golden brown grill marks andit's a little salty and it's
just phenomenal.
It's similar to cotija in termsof it's like less crumbly, but
it's a similar genre of cheese.
NorCal Guy (42:19):
Okay, alright, I'm going to look that up.
I'm going to see if I can findsome.
Monster Mike (42:25):
Oh, it's at most grocery stores.
It's way overpriced, though.
That's what bugs me.
NorCal Guy (42:30):
At most grocery stores.
It's way overpriced, thoughthat's what bugs me At most
grocery stores.
Okay, yeah, I will have to.
I don't know why.
I just don't.
That just doesn't ring a bellfor me.
Monster Mike (42:42):
I feel like have you ever, have you had Middle
Eastern food?
Yeah, I'm sure you've had tohave had it, or, like I don't
know, maybe a mediterraneanrestaurant dude another.
Um.
So my girlfriend is persian andshe's shown me a lot of persian
food.
Oh, those guys have some goodrice, they do rice totally
(43:07):
differently from anywhere inasia or from mexico.
NorCal Guy (43:10):
Very different, very good yeah, I'm a food man.
I like, I like a good, goodfood, wherever it's from.
Monster Mike (43:21):
Just oh yeah, I just want good food what's the
weirdest thing you've ever eaten?
NorCal Guy (43:27):
uh, I'm not gonna have anything that interesting.
Um, I can't even.
Uh, I don't know if it's weirdanymore like I.
I remember I tried some likeprotein bars made from crickets.
That's not that weird thoughLike from cricket flour they
(43:51):
call it flour.
I think it's called cricketflour or something like that.
Monster Mike (43:58):
Much better than ground crickets.
NorCal Guy (44:01):
And they weren't bad .
They weren't bad at all.
But I don't venture down theweird.
It's not my thing.
Monster Mike (44:11):
I just want enjoyable.
No, that's better Me and myfriends in college.
There's this restaurant onSautel in little Osaka in LA
called Killer Noodle.
Okay, and it's like their wholething is it's super spicy, so
we used to do this thing.
(44:32):
You go and you can order likeyour spice level and this other
spice, uh, sancho pepper, whichnumbs your tongue.
So you can get more spicebecause your mouth is numb.
So we'd go and we'd likecompete to see who could eat the
spiciest one, and I won once,but it was not worth it.
The same thing of like I don'tventure you not wanting exotic
(44:56):
foods.
Yeah, I get that.
It's not like you just enjoyyour food yeah, yeah, there's no
.
NorCal Guy (45:06):
Yeah, I mean, I've had no.
It's not weird, though, like Ifeel I'm blanking and I went to
this restaurant in san franciscoand they had I want to say they
called it golden caviar andthat was pretty good oh, what is
that?
It's just like all the like uh,clear, white, goldish color
(45:30):
eggs in one place it's fish.
Monster Mike (45:34):
Yeah, I mean, caviar is great.
NorCal Guy (45:39):
Yes, oh man.
Well, that's cool.
Nothing that weird.
Monster Mike (45:46):
That's good.
Yeah, I don't think you'remissing anything crazy Nothing
that weird.
NorCal Guy (45:54):
That's good.
Yeah, I don't think you'remissing anything.
Crazy.
Funny thing you talk aboutspice.
I was at Lowe's and this year Ihave seen I've never seen ghost
pepper plants for sale beforeAt Lowe's.
There was at Lowe's ghostpepper plants for sale before
(46:15):
and there was at lowe's ghostpepper plants for sale.
I'm like who's even going toeat these?
Like people are not.
Well, people are dumb.
But did they not realize whatthis pepper is like?
Monster Mike (46:24):
well, I feel like when I was a kid.
I remember, yeah, ghost pepperswere like everyone was like
it's the hottest pepper and thenI feel like a year later there
was a new one and now thepeppers are like 20 times hotter
.
They're like this thing willlike damage your organs if you
touch it to your skin.
Like who's making this?
(46:46):
You know Right who's enjoyingthis, like.
NorCal Guy (46:49):
Who's making this, you know Right.
Monster Mike (46:51):
Who's enjoying this?
I mean there are people likespice just burns your taste buds
.
So like I have a friend, myfriend, adam, his he says his
grandpa, his grandpa's like thisold Israeli dude, he's like he
just eats ghost peppers, like hecan't taste anything, he just
(47:12):
like eats peppers.
It's like there are old, oldpeople from different parts of
the world that just like that'stheir life, they just eat spicy
food different strokes fordifferent folks, man yeah no,
(47:32):
it's a.
It's a different way to live,for sure any other questions?
NorCal Guy (47:39):
what any other questions?
Monster Mike (47:42):
well, I don't know .
I mean I could, I couldinterview you too sometime.
You should, when you're, whenyou're next to new york, I host
interview, I interview people innew york.
So at station three, shout outstation three.
So next time you're there I'llgive you an interview, because I
, I mean, I I'm the type of guywho I'm like.
So where were you born, like,what was your family like
(48:04):
growing up?
You know, like I did that, uh,with sam sprat on this one
interview and he, he was verygracious, but afterwards he was
like I, he, I forget what hesaid, but it was something like
that was a weird interview.
He said in a very gracious,friendly way, but I knew that
(48:27):
was the subtext.
It was like huh that's funny.
NorCal Guy (48:33):
So do you have any shout outs?
Not a shout outs, but do youhave any upcoming projects or
stuff in the works you'd like totalk about?
Monster Mike (48:44):
oh, dude, I have like a bunch of cool stuff.
First I mean I yeah, yes, I doSome of it I can't talk about
fully yet, but I can share somedetails after, but the stuff I
can talk about, um well, I'm, ohman, where to start, so my
(49:08):
whole thing.
So I do a lot of the AR andI've become a little bit better
known for that.
But I also just like, like, Idraw a lot and it's not AR, but
I think it has artistic meritand you know, they sort of feed
each other.
So my first project in thespace is called Jeff Town and it
(49:33):
was that first Jeff.
I posted and it's like longstory short.
I started it two years ago.
I'm wrapping it up finally.
So there's like about 100 ofthem so far.
They're all one-on-one animatedPFPs and I'm going to be
concluding that series by doinglike 20 more that.
(49:54):
Oh, I think it cut out.
Are you still there?
NorCal Guy (50:00):
there we go.
Uh, yeah, like cut out for alittle bit and then came right
back.
Monster Mike (50:04):
Yeah we're back.
So I'm concluding je town.
It's two years in the making.
I'm very excited to wrap it up.
We have this great littlecommunity of folks who have been
supporting me from the verybeginning.
Shout out to everyone in Jefftown.
They're like.
It gave me all of my startingopportunities.
So I'm going to be wrapping upJeff town, giving out the last
(50:27):
few to friends who have helpedme over the past couple years to
say thank you and get them inthe community.
I'm also going to be releasingmy first shirts, finally.
They've been in the works awhile and this so a little
clothing drop, all very lownumbers, like not trying to do
anything crazy.
The AR is definitely theattention-getting stuff and this
(50:49):
is more like the fun,definitely the attention getting
stuff, and this is more likethe fun support, the existing
community stuff.
So wrapping up those things andthen going to be doing a second
showing of the piece bbd justbought in new york in probably
july, as well as showing a newpiece that is I'm very excited
(51:09):
for because it's got some stuffthat I've never seen ever.
I'm very excited about that.
That's like most immediatestuff.
Then there's also a projectcoming out, probably Q3.
I've just learned this term, q3.
(51:31):
Which essentially means summerfor non-business folk, and this
is something I'm really excitedabout.
It's not AR, but we're going tosee how people like it.
It's a total experiment.
So I'll just talk about thatreal quick and then that'll be
(51:51):
the end of my little shill.
And then I want to tell you onecool thing that's private,
after All, right.
So at Station 3, my buddy, eddie, hosted this event called
Station 3 by the Sea, where heinvited all these people out to
his parents' house by the beachand we just had a little art
show and he invited me to dosome live art there.
(52:12):
So, long story short, I endedup having people sit down with
me one-on-one and tell me astory and out of that story came
a single panel, okay.
So it was really really cool.
It was just kind of like achance thing that happened.
I had this idea, we tried it.
It worked great.
But what happened was peoplereally opened up in a really
(52:37):
interesting way.
So I had I had somebody tell meabout accidentally meeting his
biological father.
Right, I had like, like peoplegot really heavy, people who I
didn't know super well, I hadmet a few weeks earlier.
They got really deep because Ijust invited them to tell me a
story and the only parameter wasit has to be true.
(52:58):
It doesn't have to be like nonnon-fiction, but it has to have
a soul and a heart and be likeauthentic, right.
So some people told mefictional stuff.
But I ended up with thesepanels and each one had this
deep story at its root and itwas.
It was really cool.
So I started doing it some more.
So at different events Iinvited people to come tell me a
(53:19):
story, and every time it'sphenomenal.
So in the end I'm left withthese eight by eight canvases
and I've scanned them.
And I'm working with a friend ofmine uh, did D, I, I D, who's
great at on-chain art.
He's, he releases a bunch ofcool tools for the on-chain
community.
He did the smart contract forthe piece we would be bought,
(53:40):
with all this additionalfunctionality.
Um, we're working together todo a kind of game that for the
moment I'm calling do, a kind ofgame that for the moment I'm
calling Polytick gameP-O-L-Y-T-Y-C-H Not Polyticks,
but Polytick, like Diptych,Triptych, etc.
The idea is I'm going to airdropthese story panels to everybody
(54:04):
who told me the story.
It's all free, just for fun.
But then there's a mechanismwhere, if you collect two or
more stories, you can mint themtogether to create a sort of
non-linear comic book panel typething.
So okay, so this is somethingI'm just going to keep inviting
people to tell me stories forthe next many years, hopefully,
(54:26):
minting them for free and thenencouraging people to try to buy
other people's stories tocombine them into this
interesting tableau.
Right, and it's like anexperiment in meaning making,
like the meaning comes from thatperson into the canvas, but
then you can see meaning insomeone else's piece.
Maybe you relate to that.
You can combine them.
(54:46):
So I'm sort of thinking of itlike somewhere in between
Monument Game and the inverse ofChex, but like its own thing
altogether, you know.
So, instead of Chex, you'regoing from something big into
something small.
This is something small.
You're trying to collect miniand create a bigger thing, and
then, yeah, so it's oh, blessyou.
(55:08):
Oh, you're smart.
You muted.
I've been coughing on mic thiswhole time like a bozo.
I should have done that.
Dang, that's embarrassing.
Now you still can't hear you.
Oh, now I can hear you.
All right you're good, you'regood you're smart, you, oh, now
(55:33):
I can hear you all right, you'regood, you're good, you're smart
anyways, so that we're tryingto launch that, uh, probably in
the summer, and uh, yeah, so if,if we're at an event together,
I'm gonna try to have canvaseswith me and paint pens and just
sit down, tell these littlestories and then I, anyways, I
have some other plans for itthat could make it even cooler,
but that's kind of where it's atnow and it's sort of an ongoing
(55:53):
project that I can contributeto.
It's just something I enjoy andthis is a framework so that
other people can participate init.
You know, huh, okay, so that'sa non-AR thing that I'm really
excited about.
And then AR stuff oh man, somejust crazy stuff that is still
(56:15):
in the technological developmentphase, stuff.
I almost got arrested for partof this.
It's really cool.
Okay, I can't talk about thedetails, but it is like it's the
, it's like, oh, my God, somepeople know what I'm talking
about, but I've I've beenadvised to stop talking about it
(56:35):
because I'm telling everybodyand it's not going to be done
for a couple of months and Idon't want to, you know so yeah
but I'll give you some hintsafter Awesome.
NorCal Guy (56:47):
Well, mike, I want to say thank you so much for
this entertaining and funconversation that we had, and I
appreciate you spending sometime with me today well, thank
you for having me.
Monster Mike (57:01):
That was a lot of fun.
Hopefully I didn't go offtangent too much, but uh, yeah,
had a good time it's all good.
NorCal Guy (57:09):
I hope you have a great day and we'll be chatting
real soon okay, awesome dude.
Monster Mike (57:14):
Thanks so much.
Have a good day too who is thisguy?
NorCal Guy (57:19):
who is this guy?
Who is this guy, who is thisguy, who is this guy?
Norcal guy, norcal guy, norcalguy, norcal guy, norcal and
chill.
Norcal guy, norcal guy, norcalguy, norcal guy, norcal guy,
norcal guy, norcal guy, norcalguy, norcal and chill.
Monster Mike (57:34):
Podcast Chill it's chill time, norcal and chill
Podcast.
What the what the Chill?
Norcal and chill Podcast.
Chill it's chill time, norcaland chill Podcast.
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