July 31, 2025 • 40 mins
Art has always been about storytelling, but what happens when collecting digital art becomes a way to document your own life journey? In this deeply personal conversation, Boona opens up about how a single NFT purchase captured the 10-year anniversary of his path to sobriety – a pivotal decision that changed everything.
Boona's perspective as both a podcaster and collector gives him unique insights into the world of digital art. He shares the lightning-bolt moment when he first discovered NFTs during the 2021 Clubhouse boom, comparing it to the feeling he had when Steve Jobs unveiled the first iPhone. For a lifelong gamer who had spent thousands on digital assets he never truly owned, blockchain ownership just made sense.
What keeps him passionate about web3 is the community built on authenticity. "It's the first community centered around something that incentivizes people to be authentic," he explains, noting how on-chain reputation creates natural accountability. Yet he doesn't shy away from addressing challenges, particularly what he calls the "dead zone" – art priced between 1-9 ETH that struggles during market downturns, leaving many talented artists in limbo.
Looking toward the future, Boona offers a bold prediction: within five years, all significant art will incorporate code components. "We're not even in a renaissance yet," he argues, suggesting that truly revolutionary art requires embracing technological mediums rather than simply digitizing traditional forms. His call for more honest criticism in the space comes from a place of genuine care – seeing the potential for something truly transformative if we're willing to have difficult conversations.
Beyond collecting, Boona shares exciting developments with his company Schiller, including their upcoming third season of media programming and the launch of Merch, a neo-couture fashion brand blending physical luxury with NFTs. This integration of technology with fashion exemplifies exactly the kind of thoughtful innovation he advocates for throughout our conversation.
Whether you're a seasoned collector or new to the space, this episode offers valuable insights on finding meaning in digital collecting and the courage to voice constructive criticism. Follow us for more conversations that explore both the art and heart of web3.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Who is this guy?
Who is this guy?
Who is this guy?
Speaker 2 (00:06):
Who is this guy?
Norcal?
Guy NorCal and chill podcast.
So it's chill time, NorCal andchill podcast.
What the f***?
Norcal and chill podcastPodcast.
What the shill?
What the shill?
Norcal and Shill Podcast.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
So it's shill time, NorCal and Shill Podcast what
the shill, what the shill.
Hey everyone, welcome to NorCaland Shill.
Today we have Buna.
In this episode we explore histake on art collecting, the
importance of storytelling andthe need for reflective
(00:47):
criticism in crypto art.
Buna shares his adventures inspending on both the meaningful
and absurd, gives us a sneakpeek at his latest media
projects and his excitementaround NFT fashion company Merch
(01:07):
.
We'll also touch on his podcastmarketing insights.
While diving deep into ourshared history in the world of
podcasting, our collectivepassions and his initial forays
into the NFT world, buna castshis visionary eye on the future
of art intertwined withtechnology and what that means
for artists today.
Join us as we unpack theserious, the silly and the
(01:29):
substantial with Buna in aconversation filled with
gratitude, laughs and forwardthinking in the Web3 era.
Everybody, please welcome Buna.
Hey, buna, welcome to thepodcast.
How are you doing today?
Speaker 2 (01:46):
Buna.
Hey, buna, welcome to thepodcast.
How are you doing today, gm?
Uh, guy, I'm doing really well.
Um, I just mentioning, rightduring the countdown, as uh, as
someone who's you know, usuallyon the opposite end of the
camera, uh, it's nice to be theinterviewee, um, and to sit down
and be asked the question.
So I, I think, uh, for thosethat you know, obviously, you
know, no one saw our DMs, butyou shot me a DM and it was
about 6.9 seconds between NorcoDM and my response.
(02:12):
He caught me at the right timeand it just yeah.
So thrilled to be here.
I've loved what you have likeamassed here.
I've gotten to like learn aboutso many artists, uh through
this podcast, um so manycollectors, it's.
It's.
It's wonderful just to hear uma lot of the answers that
everyone here provides, andyou've built just an insane
(02:32):
catalog like it.
Just it's yeah, uh, just lovewhat you do, man thanks, man.
Speaker 1 (02:38):
yeah, um, yeah, I appreciate that.
I mean, I I know we arecolleagues in this endeavor.
Yeah, because you've been doinga podcast just as long as I
have.
Yeah, so definitely it's funbecause we get to talk about
behind the scenes things and welike compare notes.
(02:59):
Yeah, definitely.
Like, hey, what are you doingthese days?
What do you?
What equipment are you tryingout these days?
Speaker 2 (03:05):
like yeah, there's not many.
There's not many people that uh, I can really just you know
whether it's a positive, youknow event or a, an event, I'm
sure, or like the, the behindthe scenes struggles that go
along with this, because youknow there's not many people who
just like really get it.
You know, um, right from theoutside.
They know it takes a lot ofwork, but like it's nice to have
(03:28):
someone in the trenches, bothin the podcasting and media side
, on the art collecting side, onthe bird app side and now the
purple app side.
You know, um, so it's nice to,it's nice to have that man, uh,
and have appreciated that band.
That's really how ourfriendship started.
We randomly met in New York.
I was literally about to go tobed and then you invited me to
(03:51):
the Babylon event, ayla gave meher ticket and then we just
vibed about podcasting on theUber ride over there, right.
Speaker 1 (03:58):
Yeah, it's true, it's true.
And then we had DMs just abouthey, man, have you tried this
out?
Have you heard about this?
Have you done this?
I'm like, oh, yeah, I'm gonna,yeah, send me about that I want
to learn about, I won't go takea look at that, yeah, but yeah,
it was awesome.
Speaker 2 (04:11):
Yeah, and if I would have taken every one of your
recommendations.
Uh, I would be in a massiveamount of debt right now with
audio equipment.
So I'm glad I'm glad I've onlyhave taken your advice in some
of this, because I'm a I'm ashiny object guy and I just had
to.
I had to practice somerestraint.
Speaker 1 (04:30):
So well, the funny thing is is like, even though
I'm like hey, you should take alook at this Like I still don't
have a lot of those things, I'mlike, oh, I'm just running with
what I got because it works.
Speaker 2 (04:46):
Tell you what, man, I feel like there's a certain
threshold of equipment where,like, it just doesn't matter.
You know, like it's like these,some of the little things, that
it's like my main thing and Iknow you especially as a dad uh,
it's like what can basicallymake my life easier and if it
doesn't do that, like in a bigway, it's it's just like not
worth it.
You know right, for sure, forsure, yeah, yeah, awesome.
But yeah, happy to have abrother in podcasting and media.
It's just like not worth it.
You know Right, for sure, forsure, yeah, yeah, awesome.
(05:06):
But, yeah, happy to have abrother in podcasting and media
as well, for sure.
Speaker 1 (05:12):
It is nice.
So what were your firstthoughts when you heard about
NFTs and crypto art?
Speaker 2 (05:19):
Wow, I thought about this a little bit.
Wow, I thought about this alittle bit and I would say my
first reactions were so when Ifirst came in was in the
clubhouse days, early 2021.
(05:41):
I didn't know what any of itwas.
I just stumbled into theclubhouse space where they had
the buyer of Be of people'severyday's piece Um, the one
that sold for like $69 millionand that wasn't planned.
It was also during the heightthat, I think the alien fedora
pipe punk sold for like 4.2million in that same week or
right around then.
It was unreal.
(06:02):
Um, then it was unreal.
So I was.
I stumbled into that space notknowing what I was listening to,
what I was in for and the bestway I can describe it.
There were two thoughts.
There was one where it was a.
It wasn't really a thought, itwas a feeling and it was the
same feeling that I felt when Isaw, I watched, the Apple
(06:22):
keynote where Steve Jobs pulledthe first iPhone out of his
pocket.
It was that same feeling andthat was what hit me first.
And then the second thing thathit me as a native gamer, was
gaming.
That was my first.
I'm like this makes anincredible amount of sense,
because I've spent thousands ofdollars in digital assets that I
(06:46):
don't own.
And right, you're telling me Ihave a way to now own them.
So that those are my first twothoughts.
It was a feeling followed bygaming just makes complete sense
.
Speaker 1 (06:58):
Um, and that was the start yeah, that makes sense, a
lot of sense.
So did you collect art or likebaseball cards or models or
anything before nfts?
Speaker 2 (07:11):
so I did and I I often say I don't, but I think
I've just forgot about it for solong.
Um, it just feels like anotherlifetime.
It was when I was very little.
I collected, uh, you know, oldstar wars action figures.
Uh, lord of the rings?
Um, you know old star Warsaction figures.
Uh, lord of the Rings Um, youknow the the six inch or one
foot tall Lord of the Ringscharacters?
Uh, I collected a lot of those.
(07:32):
And I did collect a model cars.
Um, you know, I had a Ferrariat 50.
That was my first like real.
It wasn't one that I puttogether, it was just a model
car that you bought.
Um, it was already put togetherand it was super well detailed.
Um, but after that, after Iturned maybe I'd say, between 10
and 13 years old, somewhere inin in that period of becoming a
(07:54):
teenager, I just I just stoppedUm, so really no, um, until web
three.
It really kind of justaccelerated, um, my collecting
outside of the art space.
So it actually had something todo with me collecting vinyls
again and, you know, gettingdifferent books and getting, you
know, custom signed CDs andstuff like that.
(08:16):
So I really started to fallback in love with collecting as
a result of becoming anaccidental art collector in Web3
.
Nice yeah, that makes sense.
Speaker 1 (08:26):
Collector in web three.
Nice, yeah, that makes sense.
Makes sense, yeah.
And yeah, I see that recordplayer right there behind you
Looks good times.
Speaker 2 (08:36):
I have a story about that, but I think it's.
I'm saving it for anotherquestion, All right.
Speaker 1 (08:43):
So what are the best things about web three today?
Speaker 2 (08:48):
I would say today, the best things about web three
are the same things that Ithought there's.
There's some things that havenever changed, that have
remained.
The best thing for me is thatthe number one, it's the people.
I fell in love with thisbecause it felt like the first
community who was centeredaround something that
(09:11):
incentivized them to beauthentic.
You know like it's if we aretruly at the intersection of a
new renaissance and you knowwhat's coming and everything's
on chain, it's public, it'simmutable, it's so wild that,
like most people areincentivized to just do the
right thing because you'reliterally building an on-chain
reputation, and I thought thatthat was really fascinating and
(09:32):
I think I led with that.
I guess just energy or I ledwith that kind of thought in my
mind and naturally I just foundpeople who also felt the same
way and, funny enough, those arethe people who I'm still
friends with, who I'm stillfriends with today, you know, uh
, and I've picked up a lot alongthe way, um, but it just goes
(09:53):
to show that, like my initialcause, I came from the gaming
world and web and web two world,where the opportunity to really
make it was really just gettingsmaller and smaller and what
you had to do to really becomekind of a superstar or to like
make some sort of a living onthe internet was becoming less
and less authentic, and that'sreally why I fell in love with
(10:15):
it.
So I would say the best thing inweb three just to keep it
simple is is the people and I'dsay today, the fact that you
know like we've seen so manyadvancements and new token
standards and new way and a lotof artists experimenting with,
like actual code and blockchaintech Collectors getting a little
(10:39):
bit more thoughtful and alittle bit they maybe ask more
questions or maybe arequestioning things a little bit
more and having a little bitthey maybe ask more questions or
maybe are questioning things alittle bit more and having a
little bit more intent with howthey collect.
I'd say it's just really cool.
It's basically the same answer,but it's people and then the
maturation of the industry as awhole living through both cycles
and coming up on, hopefully,another bull, but yeah right,
(11:05):
right.
Speaker 1 (11:06):
That is an interesting aspect about the
space we touched on earlier isjust there's a lot of trust
built in this space and a lot ofreputation and a lot of things
happen because of thatreputation and but the flip side
is it's funny because somepeople will blow that reputation
but they still come back andyou're like how are these people
(11:27):
back in the space, like what isgoing?
Speaker 2 (11:30):
on.
I know, I know the way I lookat that man is that I feel like
the people that I'm friends withare the people who are really
concerned and included withbuilding a legacy.
And if we think about legacy,we think about that's like the
longest time horizon, you know,that ever exists.
(11:50):
So it's more of like, at theend of the day, what are people
going to recognize both me andmy friends for, you know, and I
feel like there's a lot ofpeople that think that way, and
that's really cool.
You know, in the short term,grifters and people who act amok
will like come back becausethere's pure financial
opportunity.
But I think what helps me sleepat night is that I know that
(12:11):
I've always strove to, you know,and the people I've been around
especially now joined withSchiller Um, it's like there's a
way to make money and feel goodabout it too.
Uh, and build a reputation andmake money and feel good about
it too and positively contributeto something that I view is
really important, you know, Um,yeah, for sure.
Speaker 1 (12:31):
So where do you see digital art and NFTs in five
years and do you have anyconcerns as it expands?
Speaker 2 (12:39):
Hmm, um, I have an answer for both.
I would say, in five years, Iwould say and this might be a
bit of a hot take, which I knowwe're going to ask that a little
later I think that code-basedart or visual art, I'm going to
(13:00):
be really bold and say that infive years, all art will have a
code component to it, whetherit's using blockchain as a
medium or coding visual art witha generative coder, something
that, because I feel like thisis a if we really believe what
we're talking about here, if wereally think this is like a
(13:20):
revolution, a digital artrevolution, a computer art
revolution, I feel likecomputers and blockchain as a
medium are going to become likethe art, like the, what art is
going to be sought after, and Ithink we're seeing the early
days of that, but there's justnot a lot right now, and I think
that that is my foresight oflike, that's what I'd want to
(13:42):
see, my foresight of like that'swhat I'd want to see, um, both
selfishly and I just think as awhole, this is just really, it's
really cool and it's pushingart forward.
It's not just a new way todisplay old mediums that have
been around for centuries.
So that is, uh, where I see it.
I also see us finally getting agood digital screen that
(14:04):
everyone can agree on.
The technology that's just likethat.
Just it hits, it hits massadoption.
Um, you know, when it comes tothat, I feel like making, making
easier ways to display art isgoing to be a huge thing in the
next five years.
Concerns I have a lot ofconcerns, but I think that the
(14:31):
one thing that I am concernedabout is and I think I'll always
be concerned about this is theway I've looked at at least
artist journeys, at least in thecontext of this space, is that,
especially during the bearmarket, art that was really
below 1 ETH did really well andart that was above 10 ETH did
(14:52):
really well, but there was that1 to 9 ETH range that just
bottomed.
It just suffered for probably alot of different reasons.
So I get concerned that thereare not going like there's going
to be a lot of artists thatfall out when they get to that
range and I feel like it'sreally hard to make it out of
(15:12):
there.
Um, so that is like one thingthat, like, I feel like there's
just not enough support forartists in that range, um, to
span, whether it's a bull or abear, like I just get concerned
that there's not enough help inthat area and I think it
conflicts with the narrative oflike I think we're starting to
figure out that artists, youknow like, having the right help
(15:36):
is not always a bad thing Justbecause you can do everything
yourself and you don't needmiddlemen, you know to, to make
a living as an artist doesn'tmean you shouldn't have help in
that range, and I think thatthere's a conflict there.
I think we're starting to figureout that there's like a a
conflict there.
You know, like maybe I do needhelp, like maybe this is a,
maybe this is a lot bigger thanme, maybe maybe there is a way
(15:58):
to justify sending 20% for themtaking care of all this other
shit that I don't want to takecare of, you know?
Um, so I don't know.
It's a long, long winded answer, but the concern is like just
not enough people that arewilling to support in that range
on a longterm basis.
Speaker 1 (16:14):
The dead zone, what I call it.
Speaker 2 (16:17):
Yeah, it sucks, cause I, most of my friends, are in
that zone and I'm like I fuckinglove their art and I'm like I
can't afford it.
Uh, but also people from aninvestment perspective.
If you just look at it withoutfeelings or emotions involved,
it just doesn't make sense.
It's the hugest risk for alonger term reward that may not
(16:38):
ever get there, right, right,you know it's yeah, so it's just
tough, man, but yeah, and Iwould just say, to add on top of
that, our ability to criticizeart without getting offended.
I feel like I'm concerned aboutthat.
I feel like we need, I feellike that's what needs is
(17:04):
desperately needed right now.
There are a few people who aredoing it very well and they're
taking the brunt of it, but Ifeel like, as a space, we suck
at that.
Speaker 1 (17:14):
Yeah, for sure, for sure, because there's a yeah.
Speaker 2 (17:18):
Social media and art.
There's a lot of things thatdon't work there.
Speaker 1 (17:23):
Um, yeah, yeah, yeah so I mean, you kind of touched
on it like price wise, whatmakes how you look at art but
like, is there something thatlike pushes you over the edge to
buy a piece?
I mean, do you like talk withthe artist first?
Do you sit on it for a whileLike how, how did?
(17:47):
What's your process when itcomes to approaching and
purchasing a piece of art?
Speaker 2 (17:52):
It's a great question and I think I've had a few
different approaches.
I think it really depends onI'm a I'm a huge people person
and like, for better or worse,uh, I think they're like I,
sometimes I.
Sometimes I agree with this andsometimes I don't.
But part of my collectingpractice has been getting to
(18:12):
know the person, um, and thatplays a big.
I think it played too much of arole in my collecting in the
beginning.
Um, um, where I was mainlyfriends and I was such good
friends that I just feltobligated to buy the art.
But I didn't really.
The art really didn't speak tome enough to justify the
purchase, and I didn't figurethat out until many months and
years later.
Um, right, so I would say it'sstill very important.
(18:35):
It's not as important, um, butit also depends on if this is on
the higher end of my budget.
So it's like do I enjoy theartist?
Do they have a cohesive body ofwork, no matter how large it is
?
Is it cohesive?
Because that to me, in myopinion, takes a lot of work to
(18:56):
figure out how to make itdifferent.
And Ruben Wu really changed mythought process around this,
around visual language.
You know, like, what is thevisual language of an artist.
Is it easy to tell the visuallanguage of an artist?
Not necessarily style, like Ithink style is too boxed in and
I don't ever.
That's the last thing I want todo.
But I'd say, if there is acohesive body of work, if
(19:20):
there's some consistency, thatis the second thing.
Um, and also, like I mean, alot of my conversations around
art have come after the purchase.
You know, like I'm not huge inDMS, um, I I'm not, like I have
a few friends that I'm DM with,but just in respect to the
question it doesn't play a bigrole.
(19:43):
And really the most importantthing for me and I think this
might outweigh everything else,at the end of the day, say I
don't do any of the other thingsis does it tell a story of like
?
Does it tell a story in my life?
Is this a snapshot in time ofsomething that I've either gone
through or I'm going through?
(20:05):
And I'll give an example of thatConnor's piece, decisions,
which I bought last year, was Ibought, I signed the transaction
Number one.
It was the most I've ever spenton a piece of art, so it was a
huge decision for me.
But what outweighed everysingle roadblock I had to
(20:25):
justify the purchase was.
It was literally the 10thanniversary of one of probably
the most pivotal points in mylife where my parents basically
told me they gave me anultimatum to either go to drug
and alcohol rehab or they weregoing to take everything from me
, and I chose the latter and itwas ultimately the decision that
(20:48):
led me to fall flat on my face,to end up realizing I needed
help to then getting sober andstaying sober for over 10 years.
So it was one of those thingswhere I was able to sign the
transaction on, literally on the10 year anniversary of that,
and it represented something big.
It was a huge decision on myend, it was a huge decision on
(21:10):
my parents and probably a biggerdecision on my parents and to
actually follow through withthat.
You know, ultimately thismassive decision that led me to
getting well and just the wayconnor portrayed that, the way
it just it just fell in linewith a story that was very, very
personal to me.
So I like to tell my own storywhen I collect art um selfishly
(21:34):
like and I love to piece piecesfrom artists together from
different across differentmediums, to tell a personal
story of my own and I just lovethat, right, yeah, yeah I love
that.
Speaker 1 (21:45):
That's a good way to approach it.
It's thanks, man yeah, whatwould you like to see more of in
the crypto art space?
Speaker 2 (21:56):
I think I touched on a little earlier.
Uh, which is I'd like to andthis is all I'm also speaking to
myself is more people having,who have been in the space for a
while, having the courage tokind of just say things how they
are, Like Deez is a greatexample.
There's a way to do it withoutjust being a complete asshole,
(22:19):
you know, and it's like, butit's like are we being
criticized, Like it's calling ithow it is, you know?
And just in an effort to helpbetter people, Because I think
that people are too afraid tolike and myself I'm literally
talking about myself as well toshare some honest thoughts that
we believe could be helpful andif they're not addressed,
(22:42):
they're more detrimental to thespace by staying quiet.
So that's what I would like tosee more of is people that have
kind of maybe in the class of2021, people that came in around
that time, people who have kindof survived both cycles, you
know, start to really weigh in,you know, start to not be as
fearful and start to maybe stepinto more of like a leadership
(23:05):
role and more of a steward role,Because I feel like I mean, I
know there's a lot of otherpeople doing it.
But Deez is kind of like thefirst person that always comes
to mind because he just you knowexactly what you're going to
get and he's going to call itexactly like it is and it's
always fact-based, it's alwaysyou can definitely tell I don't
know.
I just like to see more of that.
I think a lot of people are notdoing that.
Speaker 1 (23:29):
So yeah, true, very true, the easy road is easier,
you know.
Speaker 2 (23:40):
But ironically, I don't know if you've experienced
this, but I've noticed thatI've sent a few drafts to
natasha um, and there's like afew drafts that, like I've sent
her just to like proofread.
I'm like it almost feels likeI'm spending more energy holding
it back than letting it rip.
Uh, like interesting, like whenI feel truly, now that I've
been, now that I'm aware of this, and now that I've basically
(24:03):
called myself out on a podcastas well, in addition to doing
the work around it, it's likeone of those things when you
know it, you can't unknow it andyou can't just like be
willfully I just can't bewillfully ignorant anymore, you
know.
So it's, the more I resist, theheavier it gets and the harder
it gets, um, versus just lettingit fucking rip you know, so
(24:28):
here's that.
Speaker 1 (24:30):
I like it.
I like it.
Um, what is the best piece ofadvice you've been given?
Or do you have like a mantrathat you just kind of like
repeat in your head that youlive by, that you just kind of
like repeat in your head thatyou live by?
Speaker 2 (24:40):
Yeah, and this one actually came to me really fast.
The funny story, the greatstory about this was it was
literally at my first likecorporate big boy job.
I started off at the verybottom of the food chain.
I was in base level customercare at a call center, you know
for you know so it was like thatwas my roots, you know for you
(25:00):
know so it was like that was myroots, you know.
Um, yeah, and I remember shejust told me she would say my
name and she, uh, my, my, myvery first manager, technically
second manager, but she wouldalways come by and she's just
like slow down.
And she would always come byand just tell me to slow down.
And I think for me I was soconcerned about not doing a good
(25:20):
enough job that I would justoverwork myself, I would overdo
things, I would do.
You know, in a sense it's goodbecause I do more than is avast
of me, but I always.
It was one of my firstexperiences where I was like,
okay, maybe I'm gonna be okay,maybe this is gonna be, maybe I
just need to slow down and thenI can actually be more effective
by slowing down.
And that has just stuck with meand she was only my manager for
(25:44):
like maybe a year and then shewas gone from the company.
But that just just slow down.
You don't need, you don't needto be doing things so fast.
You're going to mess it up Forsure.
So yeah, slow down.
Speaker 1 (25:58):
I like it.
Yeah, what is your favoritemovie quote?
Speaker 2 (26:06):
Man, this was a tough one.
This was a tough one and whatcame to mind and I'm just going
to let it rip and it's probablynot anything insanely insightful
, but I think it's just soincredibly goofy and brilliant
at the same time.
And it is from pirates of thecaribbean and okay, and he's
(26:28):
like, and when he's just likeson, don't you remember, I'm
captain jack sparrow and I'mlike, it's just like silly but
just bullish confidence aboutlike don't you know who I am,
like I don't need to sayanything more outside of my name
and you know exactly what I'mtalking about and you can feel
exactly what I'm trying to tellyou just by saying that.
(26:51):
Um, so yeah, there's probably acouple more inspirational ones,
but I think that was the onethat came to mind.
Um, so I'm just gonna roll, allright.
Speaker 1 (26:58):
I like it.
I like it.
It's solid.
Yeah, what is the best thingand the silliest thing you've
spent money on?
Speaker 2 (27:09):
you can say in life, or you can stick to just this
web3 space, however you'd likeum, so I have I actually have
two and I hope you're okay withI have two that fit both
categories.
Um, all right, the best and thesilliest.
The record player um, it maynot sound silly, but the whole
(27:30):
reason and this, so this therecord player and all those
speakers that you see, that wasall originated from tool coming
out with their very with thefurinoculum vinyl special
edition, and I didn't have arecord player.
So I got a record player and Irealized that out of all the
sound systems that could connectto each other, the sonos 5 was
(27:52):
the only one that had the cableto it so you could plug it in.
And I'm like, well, I can'tjust have one sonos speaker in a
bow system over there.
So naturally I got to systemover there, so naturally I got
to get the sound bar andnaturally I got to get the
subwoofer and naturally I needsurround sound and naturally I
need another one for my bedroom.
So that was all.
It was the best and silliestthing, cause it was just kind of
(28:14):
goofy Like how how one thingspawned an entire home
entertainment system.
You know, um, and I don'tregret it like it was the best
it's.
I say it's the best and thesilliest because I I listened to
it a lot tool is my favoriteband in the world.
Uh, and I use the hell out ofboth, you know, of everything I
purchase.
Um, yeah, so it's a little biton the silly side just because
(28:37):
it was.
I remember looking back, I'mlike that was just ridiculous
dude, like that was um in web 3.
My favorite purchase it was, uh, new year's eve either 2021.
Yeah, it's new year's eve 2021.
I was in a crypto voxels roomwith one of my great friends
(28:58):
that I've met on the internetnamed outer lumen, and they were
hosting, uh, an event in themetaverse.
Um, and we all bought cryptodickle butts for either our last
purchase of 2021 or our firstpurchase of 2022, and it was fun
because we just we all theywere like 0.001 you, you know,
(29:20):
just dumb, dumb, cheap and, yeah, it was just really fun to
center around something so sillyand so stupid.
Um, and it just like made it,just like made that time really
special, but it was like I stillhave it in my, I still have it
in my wallet today.
You know, just literally adickle butt uh in my wallet.
(29:41):
So, um, yeah, that would be myweb three purchase and my IRL
purchase.
Two of the silliest things thatI bought.
Um, and we all changed ourprofile pictures, like in a
Twitter space, and so just abunch of nerds hanging out on
the internet rocking dicklebutts, you know, like a $5 PFP,
and it was one of the funnesttimes in my life.
Speaker 1 (30:02):
Nice.
Yeah, I like that.
Those are good purchases, goodreasons.
I like it.
I like it.
It's good.
Yeah, so this one's a littlechallenging.
Okay, if you could commission apiece and have two artists
collab on it, which two artistswould it be?
Speaker 2 (30:19):
thought about this a lot, um, and the two artists
that came to mind would be veryin their very different mediums,
be t-show and, okay, 0x113, thecreator forms.
I think that there is just alevel of art history knowledge,
(30:45):
um a deep understanding of of alot of different mediums, um a
deep knowledge of expression andjust incredibly passionate, but
they show it in very differentways and I just think that that
would be I don't, and the reasonwhy, one of the reasons I did
it is because I would have noidea what it would look like,
(31:07):
but I know it would slap.
Speaker 1 (31:09):
Yeah, yeah, it's fair .
It's fair, yeah.
Good reason yeah.
What is one interesting factabout you that people might not
be aware of?
Speaker 2 (31:24):
um, I'm trying to think about this because I've
been pretty open, uh, about alot of things.
I've been open about being arecovery drug addict.
I've been sober for, you know,10 years.
I'm trying to think, um, it'sno secret my obsession with tool
(31:44):
, uh, or Oppenheimer, um, youknow.
So, hmm, oh, um, I would saysomething that not a lot of
people know is my first and onlyever overseas trip was to Egypt
in 2019.
Speaker 1 (32:02):
Oh.
Speaker 2 (32:03):
Yeah, yeah.
So that was my only yeah.
That was my only ever overseastravel trip and that was in
Egypt.
Went with my family for twoweeks and did like the whole
guided tour Just went and saweverything.
It was one of the funnest tripsof my life.
Speaker 1 (32:22):
Wow, yeah, that sounds pretty cool.
I've never been to Egypt.
Speaker 2 (32:27):
Yeah, when I tell people that they're like yeah,
you didn't go to like Parisfirst.
Just like the traditional, youronly overseas trip was to,
literally to egypt.
It's like yeah, um, so, yeah,yeah, yeah, that would be.
I would say one thing that nota lot of people know um, yeah,
yeah what is your favorite wayto connect with new people in
(32:51):
the space?
I would say, you know I am a bighugger.
So I would say, at events is agreat, is a great way to meet
new people and I.
The second place would beTwitter space, but I want to
elaborate on the first is that Ifeel like people who are newer
(33:12):
in the space or I may not know,or whatever even if they've been
around for as long or longerthan me, I feel like there's
just a level of dedication to beat these events that just tells
me a lot about that person.
It's like you're willing toshow up, you're willing to do
this.
So therefore, it's a safeassumption that, for the most
(33:35):
part, we're probably going tohave a good conversation.
You're probably someone I'dwant to interact with and to and
to talk to.
So I say that, you know, isnumber one for me, just in
person events and and then, yeah, twitter spaces are like the
easiest and it's and it's just,there's just and it's just,
there's just, uh, there's nofriction, you know.
(33:55):
Um, there's no friction andit's a great way to like hear
people's thoughts and ideas.
Um, like I said, I'm not a big,you know.
I don't like I get so nervousabout DMS, you know, and so I
just don't do it a lot.
You know, um, I use itprimarily for, like scheduling
and anything Schiller related,and you know, like that's
primarily what I use it for, andit just cause I just I get
overwhelmed, uh, having too manyconversations going on at once,
(34:18):
and so Twitter spaces is thebest way in my opinion.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (34:22):
Yeah, it's fair.
It's fair Reasonable.
Yeah, cause those DMS areridiculous.
Speaker 2 (34:27):
And you combine that with a horrendous or a no,
there's no way that Twitterdoesn't even try to manage dms
for you, like there's no,there's no tooling.
So it's like and just not gonnatry man yeah, yeah, what's your
hot take?
um, yeah, so I alluded to it.
(34:49):
I think I to it a little bitearlier, but I think that there
are too many artists that areresistant or reluctant to
integrate technology into theirpractice, and I mean technology
(35:09):
in the form of whether it's codeor blockchain, and usually
those kind of go hand in hand.
But they don't have to.
I think that we are.
Yeah, just to elaborate andexpand a little bit more on this
, I think that we're not even ina renaissance yet, because I
feel like a renaissance is a bigevent where there's a lot of
(35:29):
artists showing us a new way tosee the world.
There's a lot of artistsshowing us a new way to see the
world, and I don't think therehas really been a drastic shift
in medium and a new way to showus the world in a long time.
I think that a lot of the toolstoday are just shinier ways to
represent mediums from centuriesago.
You know, and like it lookscool, it looks pretty, but is
(35:49):
this?
You know, like, what are wedoing here?
Pretty?
But is this?
You know, like, what are wedoing here?
You know, like, if this istruly everything we say, it is?
You know, I feel like the moreand more we go forward and
living in a technological age,and technology just becomes yeah
, it's not going in, it's notbecoming less a part of our
lives, it's becoming more.
So why not embrace the mediumsnative to that to really explore
(36:14):
new ways of seeing the world?
And I just don't think there's alot of that and I think there's
a lot of reluctance andresistance to it.
I think people get reallyoffended by it.
I think people write it off.
I think people are justwillfully ignorant to it and I
just think you know especiallywith the trailblazers that I see
that are doing that it justtells me that it's coming and
(36:38):
whether anyone wants it or not,whether you agree with it or not
, it's one of those things whereit's like I just think it's
going to be here a lot soonerthan people think.
Um, and I think that peoplearen't really willing to see it.
Um, so that was.
I would say that's, I would saythat's my.
I don't know how hot that is,but it's.
(36:59):
It's probably the hottest I'veever said.
You know, probably the hottesttake I've ever given.
Speaker 1 (37:02):
Um that's right somewhere.
So tell us a little bit aboutyourself.
Any projects I know you're youwere Schiller and your projects
you're working on, tell theaudience about yeah, so we are
ramping up for season three ofmedia.
Speaker 2 (37:20):
We haven't really announced a date, but it's going
to be in March, so we are goingto be doing that again.
So really just doing a littlescheduling of interviews, trying
to do as many before the seasonstarts, so I don't have to run
into a lot of problems I hadover the holidays, um, you know.
But I would say, outside ofthat, we have uh a lot of
(37:43):
clients that we're working with,which is, it feels, really good
, we're at, we're at, we're kindof at capacity, which is, uh,
always a great thing.
You know it's it's hard, it'schallenging.
You know, um, being fullyremote is really tough.
But I'd say one of the thingsI'm most excited that we're
that's coming up soon is, um isthe launch of merch, which is
(38:04):
the one of one of X, you knowNeo couture fashion brand, um
that links it to an NFT, so umgoing to be dropping here pretty
shortly as well.
So we're kind of gearing up forthat and just stoked Like the
material it's insanely high end.
It's an entirely new approachto fashion.
We talked about it a littleearlier.
(38:25):
I think fashion is just man.
It's so cool, like when youcombine it with technology in a
thoughtful way, it's even better.
So I'd say, you know, as far as, like, we have, we have a few
things that we're working on,but podcasts, um, frames, you
know, for whatever, whateverideas we kick up with frames, uh
, we're, we're definitely, youknow, fungies, basically their
(38:47):
marketing department right now,so we're we're doing doing a lot
there, um, and then, yeah, oneof our clients, so, yeah, that's
kind of what's on the horizonright now.
Speaker 1 (38:56):
Sweet.
Well, I look forward to seeingthat merch from merch and uh,
cause it sounds awesome.
I mean, I actually am lookingforward to it and to be a
participant in it, and uh, yeah,man, I want us to also say
thank you so much for coming onthe pod today and sharing some
(39:19):
of your time, and your thoughtsand insights are appreciated.
Speaker 2 (39:23):
Thank you, yeah, these are fantastic questions,
man, and they made me think alot.
I'm really kind of getting usedto thinking a little bit more
about stuff like this, so thisis a great.
This is a great time.
As I said earlier, love whatyou do.
This is a hustle that Iobviously very much admire and
respect, and this is a blast,man.
I really appreciate it, guy.
(39:45):
Who is this guy?
Speaker 1 (39:47):
Who is this guy?
Who is this guy?
Who is this guy?
Norcal guy, norcal guy.
Speaker 2 (39:52):
NorCal guy.
Norcal guy.
Norcal guy, norcal guy, norcalguy, norcal guy.
Norcal and chill podcast.
So it's chill time.
Norcal and chill podcast.
What the sh-, what the sh-.
Norcal and chill podcast.
So it's chill time.
Who is this guy?
Who is this guy?
Who is this guy?
Speaker 2 (00:06):
Who is this guy?
Norcal?
Guy NorCal and chill podcast.
So it's chill time, NorCal andchill podcast.
What the f***?
Norcal and chill podcastPodcast.
What the shill?
What the shill?
Norcal and Shill Podcast.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
So it's shill time, NorCal and Shill Podcast what
the shill, what the shill.
Hey everyone, welcome to NorCaland Shill.
Today we have Buna.
In this episode we explore histake on art collecting, the
importance of storytelling andthe need for reflective
(00:47):
criticism in crypto art.
Buna shares his adventures inspending on both the meaningful
and absurd, gives us a sneakpeek at his latest media
projects and his excitementaround NFT fashion company Merch
(01:07):
.
We'll also touch on his podcastmarketing insights.
While diving deep into ourshared history in the world of
podcasting, our collectivepassions and his initial forays
into the NFT world, buna castshis visionary eye on the future
of art intertwined withtechnology and what that means
for artists today.
Join us as we unpack theserious, the silly and the
(01:29):
substantial with Buna in aconversation filled with
gratitude, laughs and forwardthinking in the Web3 era.
Everybody, please welcome Buna.
Hey, buna, welcome to thepodcast.
How are you doing today?
Speaker 2 (01:46):
Buna.
Hey, buna, welcome to thepodcast.
How are you doing today, gm?
Uh, guy, I'm doing really well.
Um, I just mentioning, rightduring the countdown, as uh, as
someone who's you know, usuallyon the opposite end of the
camera, uh, it's nice to be theinterviewee, um, and to sit down
and be asked the question.
So I, I think, uh, for thosethat you know, obviously, you
know, no one saw our DMs, butyou shot me a DM and it was
about 6.9 seconds between NorcoDM and my response.
(02:12):
He caught me at the right timeand it just yeah.
So thrilled to be here.
I've loved what you have likeamassed here.
I've gotten to like learn aboutso many artists, uh through
this podcast, um so manycollectors, it's.
It's.
It's wonderful just to hear uma lot of the answers that
everyone here provides, andyou've built just an insane
(02:32):
catalog like it.
Just it's yeah, uh, just lovewhat you do, man thanks, man.
Speaker 1 (02:38):
yeah, um, yeah, I appreciate that.
I mean, I I know we arecolleagues in this endeavor.
Yeah, because you've been doinga podcast just as long as I
have.
Yeah, so definitely it's funbecause we get to talk about
behind the scenes things and welike compare notes.
(02:59):
Yeah, definitely.
Like, hey, what are you doingthese days?
What do you?
What equipment are you tryingout these days?
Speaker 2 (03:05):
like yeah, there's not many.
There's not many people that uh, I can really just you know
whether it's a positive, youknow event or a, an event, I'm
sure, or like the, the behindthe scenes struggles that go
along with this, because youknow there's not many people who
just like really get it.
You know, um, right from theoutside.
They know it takes a lot ofwork, but like it's nice to have
(03:28):
someone in the trenches, bothin the podcasting and media side
, on the art collecting side, onthe bird app side and now the
purple app side.
You know, um, so it's nice to,it's nice to have that man, uh,
and have appreciated that band.
That's really how ourfriendship started.
We randomly met in New York.
I was literally about to go tobed and then you invited me to
(03:51):
the Babylon event, ayla gave meher ticket and then we just
vibed about podcasting on theUber ride over there, right.
Speaker 1 (03:58):
Yeah, it's true, it's true.
And then we had DMs just abouthey, man, have you tried this
out?
Have you heard about this?
Have you done this?
I'm like, oh, yeah, I'm gonna,yeah, send me about that I want
to learn about, I won't go takea look at that, yeah, but yeah,
it was awesome.
Speaker 2 (04:11):
Yeah, and if I would have taken every one of your
recommendations.
Uh, I would be in a massiveamount of debt right now with
audio equipment.
So I'm glad I'm glad I've onlyhave taken your advice in some
of this, because I'm a I'm ashiny object guy and I just had
to.
I had to practice somerestraint.
Speaker 1 (04:30):
So well, the funny thing is is like, even though
I'm like hey, you should take alook at this Like I still don't
have a lot of those things, I'mlike, oh, I'm just running with
what I got because it works.
Speaker 2 (04:46):
Tell you what, man, I feel like there's a certain
threshold of equipment where,like, it just doesn't matter.
You know, like it's like these,some of the little things, that
it's like my main thing and Iknow you especially as a dad uh,
it's like what can basicallymake my life easier and if it
doesn't do that, like in a bigway, it's it's just like not
worth it.
You know right, for sure, forsure, yeah, yeah, awesome.
But yeah, happy to have abrother in podcasting and media.
It's just like not worth it.
You know Right, for sure, forsure, yeah, yeah, awesome.
(05:06):
But, yeah, happy to have abrother in podcasting and media
as well, for sure.
Speaker 1 (05:12):
It is nice.
So what were your firstthoughts when you heard about
NFTs and crypto art?
Speaker 2 (05:19):
Wow, I thought about this a little bit.
Wow, I thought about this alittle bit and I would say my
first reactions were so when Ifirst came in was in the
clubhouse days, early 2021.
(05:41):
I didn't know what any of itwas.
I just stumbled into theclubhouse space where they had
the buyer of Be of people'severyday's piece Um, the one
that sold for like $69 millionand that wasn't planned.
It was also during the heightthat, I think the alien fedora
pipe punk sold for like 4.2million in that same week or
right around then.
It was unreal.
(06:02):
Um, then it was unreal.
So I was.
I stumbled into that space notknowing what I was listening to,
what I was in for and the bestway I can describe it.
There were two thoughts.
There was one where it was a.
It wasn't really a thought, itwas a feeling and it was the
same feeling that I felt when Isaw, I watched, the Apple
(06:22):
keynote where Steve Jobs pulledthe first iPhone out of his
pocket.
It was that same feeling andthat was what hit me first.
And then the second thing thathit me as a native gamer, was
gaming.
That was my first.
I'm like this makes anincredible amount of sense,
because I've spent thousands ofdollars in digital assets that I
(06:46):
don't own.
And right, you're telling me Ihave a way to now own them.
So that those are my first twothoughts.
It was a feeling followed bygaming just makes complete sense
.
Speaker 1 (06:58):
Um, and that was the start yeah, that makes sense, a
lot of sense.
So did you collect art or likebaseball cards or models or
anything before nfts?
Speaker 2 (07:11):
so I did and I I often say I don't, but I think
I've just forgot about it for solong.
Um, it just feels like anotherlifetime.
It was when I was very little.
I collected, uh, you know, oldstar wars action figures.
Uh, lord of the rings?
Um, you know old star Warsaction figures.
Uh, lord of the Rings Um, youknow the the six inch or one
foot tall Lord of the Ringscharacters?
Uh, I collected a lot of those.
(07:32):
And I did collect a model cars.
Um, you know, I had a Ferrariat 50.
That was my first like real.
It wasn't one that I puttogether, it was just a model
car that you bought.
Um, it was already put togetherand it was super well detailed.
Um, but after that, after Iturned maybe I'd say, between 10
and 13 years old, somewhere inin in that period of becoming a
(07:54):
teenager, I just I just stoppedUm, so really no, um, until web
three.
It really kind of justaccelerated, um, my collecting
outside of the art space.
So it actually had something todo with me collecting vinyls
again and, you know, gettingdifferent books and getting, you
know, custom signed CDs andstuff like that.
(08:16):
So I really started to fallback in love with collecting as
a result of becoming anaccidental art collector in Web3
.
Nice yeah, that makes sense.
Speaker 1 (08:26):
Collector in web three.
Nice, yeah, that makes sense.
Makes sense, yeah.
And yeah, I see that recordplayer right there behind you
Looks good times.
Speaker 2 (08:36):
I have a story about that, but I think it's.
I'm saving it for anotherquestion, All right.
Speaker 1 (08:43):
So what are the best things about web three today?
Speaker 2 (08:48):
I would say today, the best things about web three
are the same things that Ithought there's.
There's some things that havenever changed, that have
remained.
The best thing for me is thatthe number one, it's the people.
I fell in love with thisbecause it felt like the first
community who was centeredaround something that
(09:11):
incentivized them to beauthentic.
You know like it's if we aretruly at the intersection of a
new renaissance and you knowwhat's coming and everything's
on chain, it's public, it'simmutable, it's so wild that,
like most people areincentivized to just do the
right thing because you'reliterally building an on-chain
reputation, and I thought thatthat was really fascinating and
(09:32):
I think I led with that.
I guess just energy or I ledwith that kind of thought in my
mind and naturally I just foundpeople who also felt the same
way and, funny enough, those arethe people who I'm still
friends with, who I'm stillfriends with today, you know, uh
, and I've picked up a lot alongthe way, um, but it just goes
(09:53):
to show that, like my initialcause, I came from the gaming
world and web and web two world,where the opportunity to really
make it was really just gettingsmaller and smaller and what
you had to do to really becomekind of a superstar or to like
make some sort of a living onthe internet was becoming less
and less authentic, and that'sreally why I fell in love with
(10:15):
it.
So I would say the best thing inweb three just to keep it
simple is is the people and I'dsay today, the fact that you
know like we've seen so manyadvancements and new token
standards and new way and a lotof artists experimenting with,
like actual code and blockchaintech Collectors getting a little
(10:39):
bit more thoughtful and alittle bit they maybe ask more
questions or maybe arequestioning things a little bit
more and having a little bitthey maybe ask more questions or
maybe are questioning things alittle bit more and having a
little bit more intent with howthey collect.
I'd say it's just really cool.
It's basically the same answer,but it's people and then the
maturation of the industry as awhole living through both cycles
and coming up on, hopefully,another bull, but yeah right,
(11:05):
right.
Speaker 1 (11:06):
That is an interesting aspect about the
space we touched on earlier isjust there's a lot of trust
built in this space and a lot ofreputation and a lot of things
happen because of thatreputation and but the flip side
is it's funny because somepeople will blow that reputation
but they still come back andyou're like how are these people
(11:27):
back in the space, like what isgoing?
Speaker 2 (11:30):
on.
I know, I know the way I lookat that man is that I feel like
the people that I'm friends withare the people who are really
concerned and included withbuilding a legacy.
And if we think about legacy,we think about that's like the
longest time horizon, you know,that ever exists.
(11:50):
So it's more of like, at theend of the day, what are people
going to recognize both me andmy friends for, you know, and I
feel like there's a lot ofpeople that think that way, and
that's really cool.
You know, in the short term,grifters and people who act amok
will like come back becausethere's pure financial
opportunity.
But I think what helps me sleepat night is that I know that
(12:11):
I've always strove to, you know,and the people I've been around
especially now joined withSchiller Um, it's like there's a
way to make money and feel goodabout it too.
Uh, and build a reputation andmake money and feel good about
it too and positively contributeto something that I view is
really important, you know, Um,yeah, for sure.
Speaker 1 (12:31):
So where do you see digital art and NFTs in five
years and do you have anyconcerns as it expands?
Speaker 2 (12:39):
Hmm, um, I have an answer for both.
I would say, in five years, Iwould say and this might be a
bit of a hot take, which I knowwe're going to ask that a little
later I think that code-basedart or visual art, I'm going to
(13:00):
be really bold and say that infive years, all art will have a
code component to it, whetherit's using blockchain as a
medium or coding visual art witha generative coder, something
that, because I feel like thisis a if we really believe what
we're talking about here, if wereally think this is like a
(13:20):
revolution, a digital artrevolution, a computer art
revolution, I feel likecomputers and blockchain as a
medium are going to become likethe art, like the, what art is
going to be sought after, and Ithink we're seeing the early
days of that, but there's justnot a lot right now, and I think
that that is my foresight oflike, that's what I'd want to
(13:42):
see, my foresight of like that'swhat I'd want to see, um, both
selfishly and I just think as awhole, this is just really, it's
really cool and it's pushingart forward.
It's not just a new way todisplay old mediums that have
been around for centuries.
So that is, uh, where I see it.
I also see us finally getting agood digital screen that
(14:04):
everyone can agree on.
The technology that's just likethat.
Just it hits, it hits massadoption.
Um, you know, when it comes tothat, I feel like making, making
easier ways to display art isgoing to be a huge thing in the
next five years.
Concerns I have a lot ofconcerns, but I think that the
(14:31):
one thing that I am concernedabout is and I think I'll always
be concerned about this is theway I've looked at at least
artist journeys, at least in thecontext of this space, is that,
especially during the bearmarket, art that was really
below 1 ETH did really well andart that was above 10 ETH did
(14:52):
really well, but there was that1 to 9 ETH range that just
bottomed.
It just suffered for probably alot of different reasons.
So I get concerned that thereare not going like there's going
to be a lot of artists thatfall out when they get to that
range and I feel like it'sreally hard to make it out of
(15:12):
there.
Um, so that is like one thingthat, like, I feel like there's
just not enough support forartists in that range, um, to
span, whether it's a bull or abear, like I just get concerned
that there's not enough help inthat area and I think it
conflicts with the narrative oflike I think we're starting to
figure out that artists, youknow like, having the right help
(15:36):
is not always a bad thing Justbecause you can do everything
yourself and you don't needmiddlemen, you know to, to make
a living as an artist doesn'tmean you shouldn't have help in
that range, and I think thatthere's a conflict there.
I think we're starting to figureout that there's like a a
conflict there.
You know, like maybe I do needhelp, like maybe this is a,
maybe this is a lot bigger thanme, maybe maybe there is a way
(15:58):
to justify sending 20% for themtaking care of all this other
shit that I don't want to takecare of, you know?
Um, so I don't know.
It's a long, long winded answer, but the concern is like just
not enough people that arewilling to support in that range
on a longterm basis.
Speaker 1 (16:14):
The dead zone, what I call it.
Speaker 2 (16:17):
Yeah, it sucks, cause I, most of my friends, are in
that zone and I'm like I fuckinglove their art and I'm like I
can't afford it.
Uh, but also people from aninvestment perspective.
If you just look at it withoutfeelings or emotions involved,
it just doesn't make sense.
It's the hugest risk for alonger term reward that may not
(16:38):
ever get there, right, right,you know it's yeah, so it's just
tough, man, but yeah, and Iwould just say, to add on top of
that, our ability to criticizeart without getting offended.
I feel like I'm concerned aboutthat.
I feel like we need, I feellike that's what needs is
(17:04):
desperately needed right now.
There are a few people who aredoing it very well and they're
taking the brunt of it, but Ifeel like, as a space, we suck
at that.
Speaker 1 (17:14):
Yeah, for sure, for sure, because there's a yeah.
Speaker 2 (17:18):
Social media and art.
There's a lot of things thatdon't work there.
Speaker 1 (17:23):
Um, yeah, yeah, yeah so I mean, you kind of touched
on it like price wise, whatmakes how you look at art but
like, is there something thatlike pushes you over the edge to
buy a piece?
I mean, do you like talk withthe artist first?
Do you sit on it for a whileLike how, how did?
(17:47):
What's your process when itcomes to approaching and
purchasing a piece of art?
Speaker 2 (17:52):
It's a great question and I think I've had a few
different approaches.
I think it really depends onI'm a I'm a huge people person
and like, for better or worse,uh, I think they're like I,
sometimes I.
Sometimes I agree with this andsometimes I don't.
But part of my collectingpractice has been getting to
(18:12):
know the person, um, and thatplays a big.
I think it played too much of arole in my collecting in the
beginning.
Um, um, where I was mainlyfriends and I was such good
friends that I just feltobligated to buy the art.
But I didn't really.
The art really didn't speak tome enough to justify the
purchase, and I didn't figurethat out until many months and
years later.
Um, right, so I would say it'sstill very important.
(18:35):
It's not as important, um, butit also depends on if this is on
the higher end of my budget.
So it's like do I enjoy theartist?
Do they have a cohesive body ofwork, no matter how large it is
?
Is it cohesive?
Because that to me, in myopinion, takes a lot of work to
(18:56):
figure out how to make itdifferent.
And Ruben Wu really changed mythought process around this,
around visual language.
You know, like, what is thevisual language of an artist.
Is it easy to tell the visuallanguage of an artist?
Not necessarily style, like Ithink style is too boxed in and
I don't ever.
That's the last thing I want todo.
But I'd say, if there is acohesive body of work, if
(19:20):
there's some consistency, thatis the second thing.
Um, and also, like I mean, alot of my conversations around
art have come after the purchase.
You know, like I'm not huge inDMS, um, I I'm not, like I have
a few friends that I'm DM with,but just in respect to the
question it doesn't play a bigrole.
(19:43):
And really the most importantthing for me and I think this
might outweigh everything else,at the end of the day, say I
don't do any of the other thingsis does it tell a story of like
?
Does it tell a story in my life?
Is this a snapshot in time ofsomething that I've either gone
through or I'm going through?
(20:05):
And I'll give an example of thatConnor's piece, decisions,
which I bought last year, was Ibought, I signed the transaction
Number one.
It was the most I've ever spenton a piece of art, so it was a
huge decision for me.
But what outweighed everysingle roadblock I had to
(20:25):
justify the purchase was.
It was literally the 10thanniversary of one of probably
the most pivotal points in mylife where my parents basically
told me they gave me anultimatum to either go to drug
and alcohol rehab or they weregoing to take everything from me
, and I chose the latter and itwas ultimately the decision that
(20:48):
led me to fall flat on my face,to end up realizing I needed
help to then getting sober andstaying sober for over 10 years.
So it was one of those thingswhere I was able to sign the
transaction on, literally on the10 year anniversary of that,
and it represented something big.
It was a huge decision on myend, it was a huge decision on
(21:10):
my parents and probably a biggerdecision on my parents and to
actually follow through withthat.
You know, ultimately thismassive decision that led me to
getting well and just the wayconnor portrayed that, the way
it just it just fell in linewith a story that was very, very
personal to me.
So I like to tell my own storywhen I collect art um selfishly
(21:34):
like and I love to piece piecesfrom artists together from
different across differentmediums, to tell a personal
story of my own and I just lovethat, right, yeah, yeah I love
that.
Speaker 1 (21:45):
That's a good way to approach it.
It's thanks, man yeah, whatwould you like to see more of in
the crypto art space?
Speaker 2 (21:56):
I think I touched on a little earlier.
Uh, which is I'd like to andthis is all I'm also speaking to
myself is more people having,who have been in the space for a
while, having the courage tokind of just say things how they
are, Like Deez is a greatexample.
There's a way to do it withoutjust being a complete asshole,
(22:19):
you know, and it's like, butit's like are we being
criticized, Like it's calling ithow it is, you know?
And just in an effort to helpbetter people, Because I think
that people are too afraid tolike and myself I'm literally
talking about myself as well toshare some honest thoughts that
we believe could be helpful andif they're not addressed,
(22:42):
they're more detrimental to thespace by staying quiet.
So that's what I would like tosee more of is people that have
kind of maybe in the class of2021, people that came in around
that time, people who have kindof survived both cycles, you
know, start to really weigh in,you know, start to not be as
fearful and start to maybe stepinto more of like a leadership
(23:05):
role and more of a steward role,Because I feel like I mean, I
know there's a lot of otherpeople doing it.
But Deez is kind of like thefirst person that always comes
to mind because he just you knowexactly what you're going to
get and he's going to call itexactly like it is and it's
always fact-based, it's alwaysyou can definitely tell I don't
know.
I just like to see more of that.
I think a lot of people are notdoing that.
Speaker 1 (23:29):
So yeah, true, very true, the easy road is easier,
you know.
Speaker 2 (23:40):
But ironically, I don't know if you've experienced
this, but I've noticed thatI've sent a few drafts to
natasha um, and there's like afew drafts that, like I've sent
her just to like proofread.
I'm like it almost feels likeI'm spending more energy holding
it back than letting it rip.
Uh, like interesting, like whenI feel truly, now that I've
been, now that I'm aware of this, and now that I've basically
(24:03):
called myself out on a podcastas well, in addition to doing
the work around it, it's likeone of those things when you
know it, you can't unknow it andyou can't just like be
willfully I just can't bewillfully ignorant anymore, you
know.
So it's, the more I resist, theheavier it gets and the harder
it gets, um, versus just lettingit fucking rip you know, so
(24:28):
here's that.
Speaker 1 (24:30):
I like it.
I like it.
Um, what is the best piece ofadvice you've been given?
Or do you have like a mantrathat you just kind of like
repeat in your head that youlive by, that you just kind of
like repeat in your head thatyou live by?
Speaker 2 (24:40):
Yeah, and this one actually came to me really fast.
The funny story, the greatstory about this was it was
literally at my first likecorporate big boy job.
I started off at the verybottom of the food chain.
I was in base level customercare at a call center, you know
for you know so it was like thatwas my roots, you know for you
(25:00):
know so it was like that was myroots, you know.
Um, yeah, and I remember shejust told me she would say my
name and she, uh, my, my, myvery first manager, technically
second manager, but she wouldalways come by and she's just
like slow down.
And she would always come byand just tell me to slow down.
And I think for me I was soconcerned about not doing a good
(25:20):
enough job that I would justoverwork myself, I would overdo
things, I would do.
You know, in a sense it's goodbecause I do more than is avast
of me, but I always.
It was one of my firstexperiences where I was like,
okay, maybe I'm gonna be okay,maybe this is gonna be, maybe I
just need to slow down and thenI can actually be more effective
by slowing down.
And that has just stuck with meand she was only my manager for
(25:44):
like maybe a year and then shewas gone from the company.
But that just just slow down.
You don't need, you don't needto be doing things so fast.
You're going to mess it up Forsure.
So yeah, slow down.
Speaker 1 (25:58):
I like it.
Yeah, what is your favoritemovie quote?
Speaker 2 (26:06):
Man, this was a tough one.
This was a tough one and whatcame to mind and I'm just going
to let it rip and it's probablynot anything insanely insightful
, but I think it's just soincredibly goofy and brilliant
at the same time.
And it is from pirates of thecaribbean and okay, and he's
(26:28):
like, and when he's just likeson, don't you remember, I'm
captain jack sparrow and I'mlike, it's just like silly but
just bullish confidence aboutlike don't you know who I am,
like I don't need to sayanything more outside of my name
and you know exactly what I'mtalking about and you can feel
exactly what I'm trying to tellyou just by saying that.
(26:51):
Um, so yeah, there's probably acouple more inspirational ones,
but I think that was the onethat came to mind.
Um, so I'm just gonna roll, allright.
Speaker 1 (26:58):
I like it.
I like it.
It's solid.
Yeah, what is the best thingand the silliest thing you've
spent money on?
Speaker 2 (27:09):
you can say in life, or you can stick to just this
web3 space, however you'd likeum, so I have I actually have
two and I hope you're okay withI have two that fit both
categories.
Um, all right, the best and thesilliest.
The record player um, it maynot sound silly, but the whole
(27:30):
reason and this, so this therecord player and all those
speakers that you see, that wasall originated from tool coming
out with their very with thefurinoculum vinyl special
edition, and I didn't have arecord player.
So I got a record player and Irealized that out of all the
sound systems that could connectto each other, the sonos 5 was
(27:52):
the only one that had the cableto it so you could plug it in.
And I'm like, well, I can'tjust have one sonos speaker in a
bow system over there.
So naturally I got to systemover there, so naturally I got
to get the sound bar andnaturally I got to get the
subwoofer and naturally I needsurround sound and naturally I
need another one for my bedroom.
So that was all.
It was the best and silliestthing, cause it was just kind of
(28:14):
goofy Like how how one thingspawned an entire home
entertainment system.
You know, um, and I don'tregret it like it was the best
it's.
I say it's the best and thesilliest because I I listened to
it a lot tool is my favoriteband in the world.
Uh, and I use the hell out ofboth, you know, of everything I
purchase.
Um, yeah, so it's a little biton the silly side just because
(28:37):
it was.
I remember looking back, I'mlike that was just ridiculous
dude, like that was um in web 3.
My favorite purchase it was, uh, new year's eve either 2021.
Yeah, it's new year's eve 2021.
I was in a crypto voxels roomwith one of my great friends
(28:58):
that I've met on the internetnamed outer lumen, and they were
hosting, uh, an event in themetaverse.
Um, and we all bought cryptodickle butts for either our last
purchase of 2021 or our firstpurchase of 2022, and it was fun
because we just we all theywere like 0.001 you, you know,
(29:20):
just dumb, dumb, cheap and, yeah, it was just really fun to
center around something so sillyand so stupid.
Um, and it just like made it,just like made that time really
special, but it was like I stillhave it in my, I still have it
in my wallet today.
You know, just literally adickle butt uh in my wallet.
(29:41):
So, um, yeah, that would be myweb three purchase and my IRL
purchase.
Two of the silliest things thatI bought.
Um, and we all changed ourprofile pictures, like in a
Twitter space, and so just abunch of nerds hanging out on
the internet rocking dicklebutts, you know, like a $5 PFP,
and it was one of the funnesttimes in my life.
Speaker 1 (30:02):
Nice.
Yeah, I like that.
Those are good purchases, goodreasons.
I like it.
I like it.
It's good.
Yeah, so this one's a littlechallenging.
Okay, if you could commission apiece and have two artists
collab on it, which two artistswould it be?
Speaker 2 (30:19):
thought about this a lot, um, and the two artists
that came to mind would be veryin their very different mediums,
be t-show and, okay, 0x113, thecreator forms.
I think that there is just alevel of art history knowledge,
(30:45):
um a deep understanding of of alot of different mediums, um a
deep knowledge of expression andjust incredibly passionate, but
they show it in very differentways and I just think that that
would be I don't, and the reasonwhy, one of the reasons I did
it is because I would have noidea what it would look like,
(31:07):
but I know it would slap.
Speaker 1 (31:09):
Yeah, yeah, it's fair .
It's fair, yeah.
Good reason yeah.
What is one interesting factabout you that people might not
be aware of?
Speaker 2 (31:24):
um, I'm trying to think about this because I've
been pretty open, uh, about alot of things.
I've been open about being arecovery drug addict.
I've been sober for, you know,10 years.
I'm trying to think, um, it'sno secret my obsession with tool
(31:44):
, uh, or Oppenheimer, um, youknow.
So, hmm, oh, um, I would saysomething that not a lot of
people know is my first and onlyever overseas trip was to Egypt
in 2019.
Speaker 1 (32:02):
Oh.
Speaker 2 (32:03):
Yeah, yeah.
So that was my only yeah.
That was my only ever overseastravel trip and that was in
Egypt.
Went with my family for twoweeks and did like the whole
guided tour Just went and saweverything.
It was one of the funnest tripsof my life.
Speaker 1 (32:22):
Wow, yeah, that sounds pretty cool.
I've never been to Egypt.
Speaker 2 (32:27):
Yeah, when I tell people that they're like yeah,
you didn't go to like Parisfirst.
Just like the traditional, youronly overseas trip was to,
literally to egypt.
It's like yeah, um, so, yeah,yeah, yeah, that would be.
I would say one thing that nota lot of people know um, yeah,
yeah what is your favorite wayto connect with new people in
(32:51):
the space?
I would say, you know I am a bighugger.
So I would say, at events is agreat, is a great way to meet
new people and I.
The second place would beTwitter space, but I want to
elaborate on the first is that Ifeel like people who are newer
(33:12):
in the space or I may not know,or whatever even if they've been
around for as long or longerthan me, I feel like there's
just a level of dedication to beat these events that just tells
me a lot about that person.
It's like you're willing toshow up, you're willing to do
this.
So therefore, it's a safeassumption that, for the most
(33:35):
part, we're probably going tohave a good conversation.
You're probably someone I'dwant to interact with and to and
to talk to.
So I say that, you know, isnumber one for me, just in
person events and and then, yeah, twitter spaces are like the
easiest and it's and it's just,there's just and it's just,
there's just, uh, there's nofriction, you know.
(33:55):
Um, there's no friction andit's a great way to like hear
people's thoughts and ideas.
Um, like I said, I'm not a big,you know.
I don't like I get so nervousabout DMS, you know, and so I
just don't do it a lot.
You know, um, I use itprimarily for, like scheduling
and anything Schiller related,and you know, like that's
primarily what I use it for, andit just cause I just I get
overwhelmed, uh, having too manyconversations going on at once,
(34:18):
and so Twitter spaces is thebest way in my opinion.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (34:22):
Yeah, it's fair.
It's fair Reasonable.
Yeah, cause those DMS areridiculous.
Speaker 2 (34:27):
And you combine that with a horrendous or a no,
there's no way that Twitterdoesn't even try to manage dms
for you, like there's no,there's no tooling.
So it's like and just not gonnatry man yeah, yeah, what's your
hot take?
um, yeah, so I alluded to it.
(34:49):
I think I to it a little bitearlier, but I think that there
are too many artists that areresistant or reluctant to
integrate technology into theirpractice, and I mean technology
(35:09):
in the form of whether it's codeor blockchain, and usually
those kind of go hand in hand.
But they don't have to.
I think that we are.
Yeah, just to elaborate andexpand a little bit more on this
, I think that we're not even ina renaissance yet, because I
feel like a renaissance is a bigevent where there's a lot of
(35:29):
artists showing us a new way tosee the world.
There's a lot of artistsshowing us a new way to see the
world, and I don't think therehas really been a drastic shift
in medium and a new way to showus the world in a long time.
I think that a lot of the toolstoday are just shinier ways to
represent mediums from centuriesago.
You know, and like it lookscool, it looks pretty, but is
(35:49):
this?
You know, like, what are wedoing here?
Pretty?
But is this?
You know, like, what are wedoing here?
You know, like, if this istruly everything we say, it is?
You know, I feel like the moreand more we go forward and
living in a technological age,and technology just becomes yeah
, it's not going in, it's notbecoming less a part of our
lives, it's becoming more.
So why not embrace the mediumsnative to that to really explore
(36:14):
new ways of seeing the world?
And I just don't think there's alot of that and I think there's
a lot of reluctance andresistance to it.
I think people get reallyoffended by it.
I think people write it off.
I think people are justwillfully ignorant to it and I
just think you know especiallywith the trailblazers that I see
that are doing that it justtells me that it's coming and
(36:38):
whether anyone wants it or not,whether you agree with it or not
, it's one of those things whereit's like I just think it's
going to be here a lot soonerthan people think.
Um, and I think that peoplearen't really willing to see it.
Um, so that was.
I would say that's, I would saythat's my.
I don't know how hot that is,but it's.
(36:59):
It's probably the hottest I'veever said.
You know, probably the hottesttake I've ever given.
Speaker 1 (37:02):
Um that's right somewhere.
So tell us a little bit aboutyourself.
Any projects I know you're youwere Schiller and your projects
you're working on, tell theaudience about yeah, so we are
ramping up for season three ofmedia.
Speaker 2 (37:20):
We haven't really announced a date, but it's going
to be in March, so we are goingto be doing that again.
So really just doing a littlescheduling of interviews, trying
to do as many before the seasonstarts, so I don't have to run
into a lot of problems I hadover the holidays, um, you know.
But I would say, outside ofthat, we have uh a lot of
(37:43):
clients that we're working with,which is, it feels, really good
, we're at, we're at, we're kindof at capacity, which is, uh,
always a great thing.
You know it's it's hard, it'schallenging.
You know, um, being fullyremote is really tough.
But I'd say one of the thingsI'm most excited that we're
that's coming up soon is, um isthe launch of merch, which is
(38:04):
the one of one of X, you knowNeo couture fashion brand, um
that links it to an NFT, so umgoing to be dropping here pretty
shortly as well.
So we're kind of gearing up forthat and just stoked Like the
material it's insanely high end.
It's an entirely new approachto fashion.
We talked about it a littleearlier.
(38:25):
I think fashion is just man.
It's so cool, like when youcombine it with technology in a
thoughtful way, it's even better.
So I'd say, you know, as far as, like, we have, we have a few
things that we're working on,but podcasts, um, frames, you
know, for whatever, whateverideas we kick up with frames, uh
, we're, we're definitely, youknow, fungies, basically their
(38:47):
marketing department right now,so we're we're doing doing a lot
there, um, and then, yeah, oneof our clients, so, yeah, that's
kind of what's on the horizonright now.
Speaker 1 (38:56):
Sweet.
Well, I look forward to seeingthat merch from merch and uh,
cause it sounds awesome.
I mean, I actually am lookingforward to it and to be a
participant in it, and uh, yeah,man, I want us to also say
thank you so much for coming onthe pod today and sharing some
(39:19):
of your time, and your thoughtsand insights are appreciated.
Speaker 2 (39:23):
Thank you, yeah, these are fantastic questions,
man, and they made me think alot.
I'm really kind of getting usedto thinking a little bit more
about stuff like this, so thisis a great.
This is a great time.
As I said earlier, love whatyou do.
This is a hustle that Iobviously very much admire and
respect, and this is a blast,man.
I really appreciate it, guy.
(39:45):
Who is this guy?
Speaker 1 (39:47):
Who is this guy?
Who is this guy?
Who is this guy?
Norcal guy, norcal guy.
Speaker 2 (39:52):
NorCal guy.
Norcal guy.
Norcal guy, norcal guy, norcalguy, norcal guy.
Norcal and chill podcast.
So it's chill time.
Norcal and chill podcast.
What the sh-, what the sh-.
Norcal and chill podcast.
So it's chill time.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Special Summer Offer: Exclusively on Apple Podcasts, try our Dateline Premium subscription completely free for one month! With Dateline Premium, you get every episode ad-free plus exclusive bonus content.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!