111. Not For Yapping + Navigating Core Differences with Your Partner

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Any couple that you admire the most, they're just different
people. You're going to have differences
of opinion. You're going to have different
ways of dealing with things. You're going to have different
strengths. Hopefully your strengths and
weaknesses kind of balance each other out.
They're going to be different, and thank fucking God you don't
do everything the same. It's so not a reason to write
someone off. Whoa, Noodles, welcome back.

(00:29):
We're not for everyone, and neither are you.
This is a podcast hosted by me, a hater, and Jessica, a lover.
And this is where we make out once a week, every Thursday, and
everybody has to watch or listen.
Can't wait, Can't wait to make out with you, Noodle.
It really got me when you calledus all noodles.
That was like, yeah, that was a fun one.

(00:50):
Yeah, it did. It really did.
In this moment, as I lie here, lifeless, ready to hear you tell
me things, ready to make out with you.
I love seeing you lifeless, ready to make out.
Take. Advantage of life.
Oh yeah. Oh, this is the time.
This is the time of year when I am so low on life, so you're
catching me ripe for the picking.

(01:15):
Pick the hell out of you. I'm Are we flirting today?
We are flirting really clumsily.I'm a kick the hell out of you.
Really lost my game. I don't have any more game
anymore. I don't either I it's really
hard because friends will ask meto help them with like writing a
flirty text or just like, how doI respond to this guy?

(01:38):
And I used to be such a pro. Like when I was single and
dating, I was awkward at the beginning and then I got into
like a flow state where I feel like I was so good at the
texting banter and I don't have it anymore.
I really don't have it anymore and people come to me and I fail
them repeatedly. So you're still trying and then

(01:59):
it fails? Or do you just try and like turn
them down I. Try, but I have to get into a
very specific headspace that like.
I don't like myself in that headspace.
It's. Too horny or like a.
Little too horny. A little too.
Yeah, like talking about pickingwhatever we just said, like
whatever. We just did.

(02:20):
I don't want to think about it again.
Yeah. I was never I was never good.
I don't think it flirty texts. All of my flirts are just like
being dumb and I feel like it's all in my cadence or like
delivery and I don't think it works on paper.
And like, literally, I'll write a text.
Even to this day, I will write atext to Justin.

(02:42):
And in my head, I mean, Justin can basically like hear my tone
at this point. But sometimes I just look at it
and I'm like, that's so stupid. Like that's so dumb.
And then I have to sit there andweigh like, do I want to, you
know, send this text and 50% chance it's going to be read
dumb, 50% chance maybe it's going to be sexy.

(03:03):
And I'm like, ah, the odds aren't that good.
And so I just write something boring instead.
I get it. I mean, I'm really bad at
sexting. So if we're talking more on the
sexy side of things, that's where my capabilities have
always ended. Like I don't know how to sex
without being funny. And then so much of then first
of all, you like lose the sexiness and also the delivery

(03:27):
doesn't really work in a writtenformat.
So I'm good at I'm good at like the flirty banter, but as soon
as it becomes too much about compliments, Oh your.
Toes are so big. Those are the biggest toes I've
ever licked. The biggest toe bulbs.
Wow, Has the end of your toe always been that square?

(03:49):
That kind of stuff, Yeah. Yeah, exactly like that.
Yeah, you get it, You get it. I have been flirting.
I've sort of been flirting. With someone else.
With someone else other than you.
It's not really a flirt, but I am in a sexual competition with
someone. Yeah, there's this, there's this

(04:10):
man. So just like a.
Man. I have reason, man.
No, you have to stay with me. Stay with me.
So Justin and I were at the gym.This was like months ago and he
pointed out this guy that and hewas like, oh, that gay is a gay

(04:31):
man. And he was like that guy.
That guy is like always I fondling me like he has a big
crush on me. I can tell whatever.
You can just tell when someone is a crush on you.
He was like, yeah, this guy at the gym, like he's definitely
one of my longtime, not his crushes, but has a crush on
Justin's trying to talk him up or I can't remember what the
interactions were, but Justin was like, Oh yeah, I know that
guy has a big crush on me and I'll slay.

(04:53):
Some of those gay boys love Justin.
They just want to eat him up. They just want to cover him in
Nutella and eat him up. And I can't blame him.
But ever since Justin pointed out this guy and we go to the
same gym, Justin, I so I see this guy at the gym all the time
and just knowing I, I feel like I'm trying to now impress this

(05:14):
gay man because every time he looks at me like Justin, I are
there all together. He definitely knows that I'm
Justin's girlfriend by now. And anytime he like witnesses
me, I just imagine him judging me and just thinking like, uh,
she's too ugly for him or like, uh, she doesn't even have that
good a body or like, uh, her butt's not even as good as mine
or like, I just feel like he's judging me and why I shouldn't

(05:38):
be with Justin and this man should be.
And so whenever this guy is there, I'm like trying to look
hot for this gay man who wants to fuck my boyfriend so that I
can justify being with Justin. And I don't know, I just like, I
just realized this the other daythat I like try to like walk hot
around this gay man who would literally kill me and walk over

(06:00):
my body to get into my boyfriend.
I don't know how to get out of this.
Can I just say that that is one of the most beautiful things
that I miss about like in personinteraction with random people
that you don't know. Do you know what I mean?
Like if you go in person to the same place over and over again,

(06:22):
like a gym or an office buildingor wherever else, you have the
opportunity to have those types of interactions where like
you've never even talked to him.There's a whole story and you
think about it and you change your demeanor because of it.
And you're talking about it to me now.
And like it's a plot line. And you don't get to have that

(06:43):
when you work from home and you know everybody.
You go to the same gym and you know everybody there 'cause it's
like a small community gym. And like, basically, I'm jealous
of this. I'm jealous of, of you making
the gay man jealous. Yeah, it sounds really fun.
It sounds. It is fun.
That's like the Joie de Vive, you know?

(07:04):
That's the joie de vive. Yeah.
This is like the little everydaysoap operas that.
Yeah, First of all, I I don't know.
I I don't even know how much of this is true.
Like the other day I was like, what if he's not gay?
Like, what if we like. I don't know.
I don't know how explicitly Justin confirmed that.
Maybe this was just a dude who wants nothing to do with either
of us. He's like never looked at you

(07:27):
once. He's never noticed.
You never noticed? Me and I and one day I'm just
going to confront him. I'll be like, I know you would
beat me dead to fuck my boyfriend.
And he's like, hello? Yeah, it's perfect.
I don't know, but it's such a fun.
I love these soap operas that get to live out in your head.
Exactly, it's the most fun. I feel like I used to have a lot

(07:49):
of them when I worked in an office and you just would like
pass somebody over and over and be like, there's kind of a vibe
there. Or when when you're on a plane,
when you're on a plane and there's like the one hot guy and
you're like, he's looking at me,'cause we're like the.
Only two people under 30 times this flight.
Yeah, yeah, exactly. I just, I don't know, that stuff

(08:11):
is the reason that people need to stay going outside and seeing
each other and walking by each other.
We need pedestrians. We need Bisander.
We need. Oh, what was the word?
People loved that you brought upthat video gaming word a few
episodes ago. What was NPCS?
NPCS. Yeah, Yeah.

(08:32):
Interesting. Yeah, 1 of NPCS trying to trying
to fuck my boy. I'm laughing at the silence
because you were like, I think Ihave something to start the
episode and like it could just send us on a whole long combo.
And then we had a silent moment and I was like, shoot, I, that's

(08:54):
all I got for you on that one. Was that Was that the topic?
That actually wasn't the topic. Oh, perfect.
That one just came up naturally.What I was gonna what my big
idea that I was gonna open the episode with.
All right, let me paint a picture for you.
I was laying in bed. The other night, Oh my God,

(09:16):
it's. I can't stop Mama hungry for a
little bit of I was laying in bed the other night and I was so
cold. I was so cold.
I was so chilly because it's winter.
Also the heat in my house stopped working and it is none
of the heat works. That's why I'm not in bed right

(09:37):
now, because there's no heat in my home.
There hasn't been heat for four days.
It's 20° in DC and my apartment is only 30° warmer than that.
Oh my, so we're having a similarissue but the heat the it's
almost worse because the heat isworking, the furnace is working.
It's just two. Degrees in Chicago so it can't

(09:58):
possibly bring a a part of our house higher than like 55.
So there's nothing to be. Done about it.
Oh my God, there's nothing. And we're paying, we're still
paying for that heater. That's awesome.
That's doing it's God damn best.So do you just not go to those
rooms? We got space heaters, we bundle
up and you're. Paying for fucking.

(10:20):
Oh my God, our gas bill space heater.
It has been insane for the last two months and like our place,
this is not interesting content,but like our place is A2 level
and so the lower level, just thelower level has really high
ceilings is further from the furnace and it's the lower

(10:41):
level. So it because heat rises.
So like it just does not heat. It's always a little bit colder
down there than it is on the upper level.
In order to get it warm at all, we have to like blast our
furnace. So it's really hot upstairs and
then and it's so dry and then it's really cold down there just

(11:01):
to make it like 60, like even a little bit bearable for when we
need to like cook our meals. And it's like $250 a month.
It's, it's so dope. It's ending me.
It's like, actually, this is theend.
I don't want to do it anymore. It's I'm sorry to interject my
personal conundrum into your story, but this is actually all

(11:23):
I've been thinking about and dealing with for the past few
weeks. So it's relevant.
It's very relevant. I'm sorry, your heater's broken.
I really really. That's OK.
Yeah. I'm literally, I'm sitting next
to the fire 'cause that's the only thing that's that's
beautiful. Yeah, I'm getting to kind of
cosplay like I'm a peasant. You like cooking your meals over
the fire? Yeah, I'm not, you know, I'm not

(11:45):
cooking meals, but a little. Porridge.
I'm eating my. Chocolate chips.
And by the fire, I'm. I don't know what my point is.
Yeah, it's cold. I was cold.
I was cold the other night. And is this a good story?
It's really good so far. And I, I hate, I hate sheets.
I hate sheets. They're just cuckamamie.

(12:07):
I, I feel like I'm never in control of them.
I need my sheets to be symmetrically touching my body
and so, and that's just like, it's a lot of chaos, which is
why I just like to sleep with a comforter.
I can I have greater control over that I feel like.
We do that too. I get it.
We don't sleep with the top sheet.
Yeah. Yeah, but Justin's always
bringing sheets into the equation.
So when I was cold at his place,I was cold under the comforter.

(12:29):
And then I was like, all right, I'll pull this sheet up.
And I pulled this sheet up and then I was warm and I was like,
sheet technology is crazy. What?
That thing's not even a blanket.It's not even a blanket.
And that was the difference. This fucking tissue was the
difference between me being completely cold and completely

(12:51):
warm. So you had the, you had the
comforter over you and then you brought a sheet with the
comforter and that. And that was the difference.
That was the difference. One single Kleenex of a sheet
was the difference between me being cold and warm.
I have been considering, should we bring our top sheet back into
the equation because of this coldness that we're currently

(13:12):
experiencing? And maybe, I guess maybe I
needed to have this conversationwith you to finally get a good
night's sleep tonight. OK, so you're cold at sleep
time. We're cold all the time, man.
We're cold. It's really bad.
It's really bad over here. I'm I'm losing it.
I'm losing it. Do you, have you said you have a

(13:33):
big idea? Do you have like a technological
solution that you're going? To do you.
Started this by saying I got a big idea.
No, no, no. What I my big idea was just that
sheet technology is crazy. Oh, just as is like the idea is
the existing. It was just an observation.

(13:53):
Do you think it has something todo with like how tightly
stitched the sheets are, like the thread count and the lack of
porousness? Does that mean anything to you?
You're you're the doctor. I don't know, I was thinking.
The only thing I could think wasthat like this sheet is like
wrapping itself around my contours more specifically than

(14:16):
a a comforter is. Yeah, you know what?
I mean like there's, there's less air pockets around me.
And usually I don't like that. Like I prefer sheets 'cause I
understand the the symmetry you're talking about.
I almost said symmetry and I hate when people say symmetry.
You did say symmetry. Why do people do that?
They do. Do that and I don't do that.
And I want that to be clear thatthat was just, it's the cold

(14:40):
talking. There's no circulation going to
your head. I prefer a sheet that kind of
like floats flat over my body rather than contouring to the
edges of my body, you know what I'm saying?
Which is the reason that we wentto just the comforter.
A comforter. But for the cold, OK, OK, Is

(15:05):
this interesting 'cause I'm having breakthroughs?
I'm definitely having breakthroughs.
It's my fault for bringing this to a podcast.
I think we're both. I feel lightheaded.
I'm also Do you feel dizzy? No.
No, but I do feel I'm definitelyhaving a time.
I'm definitely in a state of like just giggliness, but I

(15:28):
don't have. I've loosened you up.
I've loosened just like I planned.
Just like you fucking planned. But I yeah, I'm like, I want to
giggle about something, but we got to have something to giggle
about other than sheets 'cause Ithink we want to make other
people giggle too, and this is only doing it for you and me.
OK, well, I said what I had. I actually OK, I do have a

(15:50):
question slash topic that I think about and I think you may
have answers 'cause you know more about this topic than I do.
So. So babies, right?
Just, you know, your average baby.
They OK people parents, new parents here.

(16:13):
Here I am new parents will sometimes talk about how their
baby doesn't like certain types of people based on random
things. They'll be like, oh, she really
doesn't do well well around men or she doesn't do well around
people with short hair or peoplewith a beard or have you ever

(16:34):
heard people say this? I feel like I hear it a lot
where they will caveat like you'll come over to somebody's
house who has a new baby and they'll caveat like, oh, if the
basically like, oh, if the baby's fussy or cries or
whatever, don't worry. It's not that they don't like

(16:54):
you, it's that they're just weird about people with brown
hair or something. They'll literally say shit like
that. I've never heard it that
specific. I think I've heard the gender
thing, but I, I've, I think I'veheard this more people are
talking about their dogs. They're like, oh, their dog is
racist or something like that. Yeah.
Or like doesn't like men and thetheory if it's like a dog who's

(17:15):
been adopted, then they're like maybe she was abused by someone
that looks like that or whatever.
But then what's the deal with babies?
With a brand new baby, yeah. Oh no.
I take. She she only doesn't like men
because her dad abused her. Like he's standing right there.
Few months. Yeah, exactly so.

(17:35):
My baby's racist. What if people?
Said that about their babies. People act like that.
My baby just doesn't like your race.
The that's you're creating that problem.
By the way, this is how racist people show up is that you
created. This baby.
Wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait.

(17:55):
People are saying this about their dogs and it was crazy then
and I'm just saying it would be funnier if it was babies.
I think people do. It with their babies.
I'm not saying babies should be racist.
Oh no, no, I didn't mean you, I meant the parent.
It's all I'm saying is like, if you decide that your baby's
being racist, then you're probably going to end up with a
racist kid later on 'cause you put that construct into the

(18:19):
vicinity, whatever. That's that's what we're saying.
Topic is my topic is the topic is that I feel like it probably
is a product of new parents feeling embarrassed or something
that their kid might be fussy and wanting to give like a

(18:39):
disclaimer about like no, no, mykids actually very good and the
only reason that they might get fussy is just 'cause they're not
used to this one thing yet. And I understand where that is
coming from. But your kids allowed to be
fussy. It's like a six month old baby.
This is very specifically and I'm sure my friend Sarah hello

(19:00):
is listening. I visited them and their partner
and their baby who's about six months old a couple weeks ago
and they were like they were like, she's the baby is like not
good around people with short hair.
Like so and so was over the other day and just got a haircut

(19:22):
and like the baby was freaking out.
So we think that like she just doesn't like short hair.
So if Ryan comes around and and she's crying, don't worry.
It's not that she doesn't like Ryan, it's just that she's like
nervous about short hair and I'mlike.
I'm. Like Ryan's also a black man.
What are you? But like, it was just this whole

(19:46):
thing that I was like, it's fine.
I'm not worried about. And then guess what?
She was fine around the baby wasfine.
The baby was fine because guess what?
She was probably just tired the other day and that's why she was
fussy. And then today she happens not
to be. And then tomorrow she might be.
And I just think people make a lot of.
Like caveats and excuses and disclaimers for understandable

(20:10):
reasons because they're like, they don't want anyone to think
that they have a bad baby or a fussy baby or whatever.
But it's like, it's OK, it's a baby.
I'm not expecting that. It's never going to cry around
me. And I'm not taking it personally
like as though it doesn't like me because it's crying.
I get that it's a baby so it cries fucking.

(20:30):
Baby, I feel like. Can we open this up?
Can we figure this out? I have so many thoughts.
First I want to say I feel like what you said at the end there
would be my guess at why more people say it is that they're my
guess. I don't fucking know, but I
think it's maybe less so people be embarrassed about their baby

(20:52):
crying. And I think maybe more often
it's that a new parent really wants everyone to be in love
with their baby and really wantseveryone to be personally
attached to their baby. And some people will take it
personally. Like, you know, if you meet a
baby or a dog or something that you are determined doesn't like

(21:12):
you, you're less likely to like also, you know, approach them
and and be enthusiastic as opposed to if you meet that baby
or that dog. I don't know why I keep bringing
dogs into it, but like a baby, Ithink it's really if you meet
them, if you meet your friend's baby or your friend's dog and
they're obsessed with you, you kind of attached to them more,
you feel like more engaged. You feel more but both to the

(21:34):
parent and to the baby or the dog or like whatever, it's like,
oh, me and this baby have this special bond, me and this dog
special bond. And I think all parents like
especially new young parents really want everyone to like
feel the excitement and attachment to their kid that
they want. That's my best guess.
That's. My best guess so.
I think it's less being defensive about their baby and

(21:56):
more being more probably your friend Sarah being like, but
like, this is my brand new baby,Jess.
Like, Can you believe I had a baby?
Like I, I want you to love this baby and be so excited about it
the way that I am. And I want the baby to be
excited about you, about the wayblah, blah, blah, blah.
And it's like just like everybody wants wanting their
loved people to like be excited about each other.
You know what I mean? I think I think you're right.

(22:17):
I will add if I. Will never take it personally
but go on. Yes, some people do.
Some people do. Stop.
They just like stop giving as much like I, which I think is
kind of normal. Like if a baby fucking hated me,
which babies have hated me before and you know, I'm not as
obsessed with that baby. Sorry, 'cause it's like kind of
annoying. It's like dogs.

(22:37):
If a dog's if a dog seems to hate you, like are you always
begging to like dog sit that dog?
No, definitely with dogs and I think also more with toddlers,
like once they can interact a little bit more and maybe even
talk, then I think I could get that way with a child of like,
oh, this kid. I really have a bond with this

(22:58):
niece of mine, but I don't really have as much of A bond
with that niece of mine. But yeah, there's something
about when they're specifically like under a year old and
they're doing nothing and they're just cute and you're
like, I trust me, I'm not going to make this about me, but yeah,
I can understand that. Not everyone has that sort of
clarity and I'm not the most baby obsessed person in the

(23:21):
world either. I I love Sarah's baby actually a
lot. And I was watching videos of her
this morning for a long time. So like, I do love this baby.
You love the baby, but I'm not. I'm not the most.
I don't. I don't take baby politics
personally. You know what, maybe that's why
I think probably because you don't consider yourself as much
of a baby person. You're probably just more chill

(23:42):
about it. But I think there's enough
people who, I mean, even I, I think if I was spent a lot of
time with a baby and I could notcalm the baby down, like I would
feel bad about it. It would make me kind of feel
bad. It would make me kind of feel
like rejected a little bit more like a failure, even though it
may have nothing to do with me. But I think some people feel

(24:05):
that way. But also the, well, the second
part I wanted to say is that respectfully to Sarah, hello,
Sarah. Thank you for supporting the
podcast. Thank you for making a baby.
Shout out Frankie. Shows Frankie.
That's her baby their. Baby OK, shout out Frankie

(24:28):
respectfully. The idea that this baby doesn't
like people's short hair is the stupidest thing I've ever heard.
Respectfully, I just want to sayrespectfully, that's the
stupidest thing I've ever heard.Mostly maybe 'cause I need more,
maybe I need more information here.
But like, how was that study conducted?
Cause like, OK, so babies, babies don't talk.

(24:49):
So we're just trying to notice patterns here, or correlations.
It was just one, I think it was just one day.
Yeah. So that's not a pattern and it's
not a correlation. It's just something that
happened and you've determined it's 'cause their hair was
short. Respectfully, I think that's
stupid. Yeah.
Can I say that? Yeah, you can say that.
I wish I had said this at the time, but it felt too raw so now

(25:10):
I'm saying it through the podcast.
Yeah, you can't say that, Only you can't say that.
We'll talk about it later, Sarah.
It's fine. I just want to know how they
came to that conclusion because it seems like there's a lot of
other conclusions. Like maybe I feel like more
likely is like the baby could have been reacting to how the
person smelled or a color or like you're.
You're you're determined in so many other things going on.

(25:34):
Or or like the the tone of theirvoice or the way they held them.
Or their height, or like, but you've decided it's their hair
length. Honestly, vibes like I feel like
babies tend to like me because I, I, I exude this chill energy
of like, I don't care if you like me or don't baby.
Yeah, 'cause I am a baby first. I'm baby.

(25:54):
And you're constantly playing hard to get with all the local
babies and so 100. Percent 100%.
So they're just kind of like, ohh, like this is another baby
that like doesn't care if I liveor die like.
Baby. Babies tend to like me because
I'm not like all anxious about getting their approval, you

(26:15):
know? But some people are walking
around being all anxious. I'm desperate, I'm desperate for
it. I'm so desperate.
I'm a. Slut babies can smell that out,
they can sniff out that anxiety in you and they don't like that.
I'm a I'm just a slut for babies.
I feel like I'm trying so hard to get their approval.
I'll do anything to make them like me, honestly.

(26:35):
Some of them like that I think, but some of them.
Yeah, the fuck boy, baby. It's a little more hard to get,
I know. I like the fuck boy babies the
best I think. The fuck boy babies that use
you? For my toxicity.
Yeah, they're just always using you to be held and rocked and
cooed. They're like, oh, that friend
has big boobs. Yeah.
A lot of babies they'll just grab, you know, 'cause they're
like, really used to breastfeeding or whatever.

(26:56):
And then if I fold them, they'lllike try on me or like touch
shit, you know what I'm saying, 'cause they're like, oh, this is
like my mom's. Wow, OK, no, babies don't even.
I get babies and most people don't even recognize that I have
boobs. They can't find them.
I would just want to say, Jessica, I know you don't know a
lot about babies, but you can't just start.

(27:17):
You can't. You shouldn't be breastfeeding
your friend's babies. No, I I did learn that the hard
way. Really.
No, I'm just kidding, obviously.No.
Would you breastfeed Ryan? That's a personal question
because that's. Too personal.
It's too personal. I think my silence speaks
volumes. OK, remember.

(27:37):
Remember how Ryan's black? Yeah.
Are you going to tell the story of the joke you made at that
wedding that made you laugh so hard?
Yeah. Favorite part?
This made you laugh so hard and I love.
What even was it? What even was it?
We were just talking. Ryan.
We were at this wedding, Justin,I were at this wedding, and
Justin and Ryan are there. What was he talking?

(27:59):
He was trying. He was trying to explain black
Twitter to me. Yeah.
Oh yeah, We were talking about he was trying to explain black
Twitter to you, which I don't even know that I'm equipped to
explain that to the listeners. He was saying how you asked him
if. When I ask him.
You OK? So my boyfriend Ryan is black.

(28:22):
Also happens to be that my best friend Akayate Kai, who I've
talked about a lot on the podcast is black.
And Caroline asked Ryan like it had nothing to do with their
blackness. But.
Caroline asked. This upright.
Caroline asked Ryan like oh I think you were talking about
maybe coming to visit us in Chicago and you were like, and I

(28:43):
really want to meet your friendsand I really am excited to meet
Kai. You talk so much about her.
Oh and I bet Ryan and Kai like Iwould love to see their vibe
together like that would be so interesting and fun.
And then you were like, I don't.And I, Ryan said something like
some comment in response to that.
And you were like, oh, then whatdo you, what is your vibe like

(29:03):
with Kai? What do you guys talk about?
And he goes just black stuff. Yeah, it.
Made you laugh for a long time. I feel like we were talking
about how we all show up at a party and you were saying that
you're like the life of the party and that I love Ryan.
About myself season. Something like that.

(29:25):
And then which is true. And then Ryan takes more of a
backseat. And I was asking where Kai fit
in between the two. And he was like, oh, Kai and I
just talk about black stuff. And I was like the kind of black
stuff. And then he was explaining.
Black Twitter to me. I don't know why it was just.
And then he took us on like somelike a historical deep dive of

(29:46):
like in jokes on black Twitter that white people don't
understand. And he was the best.
It was like the best lesson I'veever received.
And just watching his eyes lighting up, talking about it,
but also like knowing that I that I could never really
appreciate it. I don't know.
I loved it and I loved that you loved it and yeah, it is very

(30:06):
fun. We talked about this like it's
so fun to get somebody on a topic that they their eyes light
up about. It can be as so random.
It could be Black Twitter, like Ryan is not the president of
Black Twitter, but he was just. Like it could be.
Elated. Yes.
Elated to be like, oh this is this like niche funny thing so.

(30:27):
Funny. That you don't know about, that
I can talk about and give examples of.
And he just like really got intothe conversation and you guys
had a blast, which was fun for me to watch.
We did have a blast. He was cracking me up and it, I
think it's like the thing that Ilove what you're describing is
that thing where it's like, oh, you exist.
Well, like you have this whole other world or sphere that is

(30:47):
very active to you and I will never hear about it.
Like for some people, I've realized a lot of the time it
can be like a YouTube they watchbecause people will watch a
YouTube like a single specific YouTube for like 10 years.
They've watched the same person for 10 years and they don't talk
to anyone about it. No one about it.
It is a private event. It is.

(31:09):
It's like this private viewing. It's not the same as like
watching ATV show with all your friends.
And I've met so many people, including you, who like, Oh
yeah, I've watched that YouTuberfor 10 or 15 years and they've
never spoken a word to anyone about it, not even their best
friends. And it's not a secret.
It's just like, oh, this is justlike a private thing I exist in
and it's not it's not really foranyone else, but it's a very

(31:31):
active and real part of my life that I can talk in depth about.
And that's what happened when when when Ryan started
explaining black Twitter and he was just like, Oh yeah, I can
talk of it in depth, blah, blah,blah, blah.
And I was like I don't even understand what it.
Is it is So the YouTube example is such a good one because I
have had that moment where, yeah, I've been watching

(31:53):
Youtubers since like since high school.
And I never, it was never something I talked about because
I just started doing it on my own and it was not like a social
thing. It's just like, you know, I pull
up this website and I watch random videos when I'm home
having alone time. And it was never something that

(32:13):
came up in conversation. I had no idea if anyone else
that I knew also did that, let alone watched the same
Youtubers. And then like I swear I still
remember the first time I ever talked to anybody really about
watching a specific YouTube and lit up it was Kai's
ex-boyfriend. Still a nice guy, just didn't

(32:36):
work out but he wasn't one of the the fuckers.
And it was like one of the firsttimes that I met him and somehow
we, he brought up watching YouTube or something.
This is maybe like 5 or 6 years ago.
So I was like 28 and this is thefirst time I ever talked to
anybody about watching YouTube. And he mentioned it And I was

(32:57):
like, wait, hold on. You know what that is?
And it actually was about David Dobrik, which is so like,
honestly at this point, like kind of cringe that it was David
Dobrik that we both watched. Wow.
But I was like, wait, you know, you know about that?
Like do you know about this other guy in, in the vlog squad
or whatever such so fucking dumb.

(33:20):
And we just talked about it and like immediately connected.
It was like we are now bonded for life.
They only dated for a little bit.
They broke up. And still I think about that.
I run into him in Chicago every now and then 'cause I think we
live near each other and like I,I have a special bond with him
even though he's my best friend's ex-boyfriend from years
ago. Because we had this moment of

(33:42):
like, oh, you understand a part of me that is so specific and
it's a whole world. It's like, but it's a whole
world that Nope, that I've nevertalked to anybody about.
I it's so interesting. It's.
But you're also like that's. Why I love you too.
Deeply engaged in it, yeah. Yeah, it's like that's a whole

(34:03):
well of people and interactions and content and.
Opinions and like stuff you're evaluating and yeah, it's crazy
how much of our like just private thoughts are private and
like never get aired anywhere. Like I've been.
I've like, I'm, I'm having like whole like like press

(34:27):
conferences about Sookie Waterhouse alone in my head.
And I've never I don't even think I've said her name out
loud to anyone before. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I love that stuff. I'm trying to think of others.
I mean, definitely a lot of Youtubers.
Trisha Paytas. OK.
Can I just say I think I talked about her at one point on the
podcast a really long time ago. I think she ended up looking her

(34:50):
up after you did. Let me just confirm I know who
that I think I did. Once you see her face, you'll
remember she's very specific. I ended up going on a deep,
deep, deep deep dive about her after you talked about her.
Yeah. Yeah, there's a lot there.
There's a lot. There, she's such a fun mystery.
She's wild and she is a part of my soul.

(35:11):
And recently, within the last like six months, she's been
having this huge resurgence. I mean, she never, I never let
go of her. I've I've been a fan of hers for
a really long time, but she's been having a more a resurgence
within the public in general where so much so that she was on
SNL, she like was did a show on Broadway randomly.

(35:35):
She's having this big moment andI'm like, I've been watching her
since I was 20 and she was insane sitting on her kitchen
floor crying on YouTube. And it's so gratifying when
you're like, ha, other people know about this person too.
So much so that she's on SNL now.

(35:55):
Like, I don't know, there's something really interesting
there. I don't think I've ever had that
experience of having discovered someone really young.
Oh actually no, the only the only person I can think of.
Bow and Yang. Love, he's the one that brought
her onto SNL. Like he's a fan of hers, so it's
funny that you mention him. Yeah.

(36:16):
I was in improv classes. He was in my improv class when I
was doing improv in New York andhe fucking doesn't know who I
am. We were in like one class, you
know, that probably lasted like two or three weeks together.
And what I remember of that is that I'm this was he, he was
nothing at that point. Like he wasn't, he wasn't

(36:39):
writing on SNL. He wasn't anything.
But in that class was probably aclass of like maybe 12 or 16
people and you have one improv teacher.
And when you're in the improv comedy world, you take these
classes all the time. So he certainly would not have.
I left no impression. He wouldn't Remember Me.
We weren't friends. He was just in the class with
me. And I'm, he was, it was, he was

(37:01):
one of those talents that he wasso high above everyone else in,
in terms of how, how funny he was that it was like, it felt
like being in the room with Rob.What, what I imagine it's like
to be in the room with Robin Williams.
It's just like, you could have so many funny people in there
and it's just like everybody will wave their white flag and

(37:24):
give up Like he's the, it was, it was really intense.
It was really crazy. And I'd done so many, I'd done
years of improv classes with like hundreds, thousands of
people. And I'd never had that
experience. That was the same as being in
class with Bow and Yang. And I'm, it was to the point
where like, like there's a, there can be a lot of
competition, obviously in like the comedy and performance

(37:48):
world. And I think in a given class,
there's usually like two or fourpeople who are all like really
good, but like some of the less good people can still have great
moments and like everybody's kind of neck and neck.
And then there was just Bow and Yang like a mile beyond
everybody to the point where like the teacher, you know, the
teacher would try not to be too biased or have favorites.
And it was a great teacher and he still did a really good job

(38:10):
with this. But like he would be dying
laughing. Like you couldn't, you couldn't
not laugh and you couldn't even really give him notes.
You couldn't even really give Boand Yang notes because it was,
it was just killing, like everything he did killed.
And I just remember that. And then, yeah, you know, seeing

(38:30):
him from afar doing all these things and then all which he so
deserves. And then also.
That's the coolest part, that hedeserves it.
Like for you to say that and himto be at the level that he's at
now, it's like, I thank God thatsomebody who demonstrated that
level of undeniable talent from that young age actually made it

(38:51):
'cause that takes a lot of, like, luck and circumstances
lining up. Yeah.
And so that actually makes me sohappy and I'm such a huge fan of
his. That's really cool.
It was it's fun to watch and I feel like he actually deserved,
like he deserves everything he has, but he also is like so much
funnier than all the things he has right now.

(39:11):
Like he was in the Wicked movie and I talked about seeing Wicked
and watching that. It's like, oh, he's like a silly
character in it. And it was just so funny being
like, you know, great role, amazing for him, such a cool
achievement and like this role and this movie like doesn't do
him justice. Like, to me, he should end up as
someone who's, like, forever legend.

(39:34):
Like, he should go so far beyond.
I feel like the roles and the opportunities he's had don't
even do his talent justice. You know, it's like you're
sometimes relying on other people to write roles for you,
but your talent is something no one's seen before, so how is
anyone even gonna write for it? I don't know.
I, I feel like he was amazing towatch.
Yeah. I feel like he's only at the

(39:55):
start. Like to your point, I think he
yeah, like obviously he's on SNL.
He has his podcast. I'm obsessed with his podcast.
It's like in my top three favorites.
But he's not even like a laugh out loud comedian on there.
He's funny and he's smart and he's charming and like there is

(40:15):
something. Yeah.
And and he and they do do some like improv on on the podcast,
but it's not like, yeah, it's not rolling on the floor
laughing, but. All of these things he's doing
now, that and you saying what you're saying makes me feel like
he's going to explode eventually.
Like there's going to be a moment where he gets to be in

(40:37):
that perfect role that like shows all of that off.
And I'm that's exciting to even think about.
I love that guy. Wow, that's so fun.
I love that you created that youcross paths with him.
Yeah, I feel like I don't like, I don't, I'm not obsessed with
the podcast. I feel like the podcast, their
podcast seems like, I also know that.
I mean, I watched the guy, Matt Rogers do improv as well.

(40:59):
They were both in the New York comedy.
Yeah, they were friends. They've been friends, like,
since college. Yeah.
They're fun. They're fun.
It's very specific. It's very pop culture.
Their their podcast is called Las Culturistas.
For anybody who hasn't heard of it, it's very pop culture.
It's very like gay, you know, it's like 2 gay boys talking

(41:22):
about pop culture. So there are some things that
I'm less like I'm just less Privy to or less part of that
scene or something. And then there are some things
where I'm like, right it like a lot of it.
I'm like, Oh, I don't even know this reference point.
But then sometimes I TuneIn and or they'll do like interviews
with interesting people. They're just fun fun.

(41:45):
Fun as fuck dog. Support for not for everyone
comes from Better Help. Better Help offers online
therapy that is flexible and tailored to your needs.
And it's funny for me to reflectsometimes on how I don't even

(42:07):
think this entire podcast would exist without therapy.
Like anything good I've learned comes from therapy.
This week in therapy, I was trying to relay a situation to
my therapist where a friend and I had, you know, we're kind of
conflicting over a scenario. And I was trying to, you know,

(42:29):
partially advocate from my friends perspective, partially
advocate from my perspective. Let's find out which one is
correct and who was right here and am I in the wrong?
Are they in the wrong? And I was just going back and
forth manically on this topic and my therapist stopped me.
It was just like, hold on. I need you to assume for a
second that there is not one correct way to react to this

(42:51):
scenario. There's a way you're going to
react. There's the way your friend is
going to react. Those are going to be based on
your childhood, your brain chemistry, your neurodivergence
or not, your gender, your stature.
There are about a million factors that are going to decide
what is the right way for you toapproach the scenario and the

(43:13):
right way is going to be different for both of you.
And I'm saying it out loud that makes it feels very intuitive.
It makes a lot of sense. But it was just one of those
therapy moments that slapped me in the face and I will never
forget it. And it is permanently altered
the way I see the world. And these moments happen all the
time for me in therapy through the years.
Something that like, you know, there's always helpful things

(43:34):
every week, but sometimes something just slaps you across
the face and hits you in the chest and it never leaves your
body again after that point and it really changes the way you
move through the world. This is why I love therapy.
These are like these indescribable moments that I
really encourage people to experience for themselves.
If you haven't tried therapy before, Betterhelp is a great

(43:56):
way to get started. You can schedule online therapy
remotely in whatever way fits your schedule.
You can even message with your therapist.
You can change therapist at any time, which I think is really
important because I think it's important to find that correct
personality fit that makes you feel comfortable being
vulnerable. They offer a diverse network of

(44:17):
more than 30,000 credentialed therapists with a wide range of
specialties. Discover the mind blowing
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heart for the rest of your life with better help.
Visit betterhelp.com/not for everyone and get 10% off your
first month. That's better help HELP dot com

(44:39):
slash Not for everyone. All spelled out.
Whoa, whoa, whoa, Hessica, let'sdo a new segment.
OK, OK, guys, we've decided we're trying out a new segment

(45:03):
on the pod. This segment is called Am I the
Hater and am I the hater is whenwe take listener write
insurance. They're kind of like what a do's
but more listener write insurance where you're
describing a real scenario that you're kind of torn up about and
you're trying to figure out if you're the jerk or not.

(45:26):
This I'm pulling this idea from there's like the Internet
concept of am I the asshole? That's a thing on Reddit and
other places on the Internet. This is like an established
format. Am I the asshole where people
write in about, you know, whatever they write in about a
fucking whatever. And then the hosts get to decide

(45:49):
and tear apart the different angles of deciding, like who's
the villain? Is there a villain?
Are both people a visit villain?Are both people in the right?
Like what's a dynamic? And it's fun to do with like
juicy, genuinely complicated topics where guess what, there's
not one right answer. It's just a bunch of hoes, bunch

(46:09):
of haters and lovers, yap in their opinions, talking it
through. There's not usually one right
answer. And that's kind of usually why
it's fun is because people, you know, we're going to bring our
different perspectives to how wethink about the situation.
And then you'll probably disagree with anything either of
us says. And that's what's the most fun.
So that wasn't a very well branded introduction to?

(46:32):
This. It was great.
It was great. Awesome.
We're doing Am I the asshole, which is a known thing.
We're changing it to am I the hater?
It's not a bad thing to be a hater, but we're all haters
sometimes and nothing that we say is law.
So, you know, if you don't agree, that's fine, OK.
We got a submission. I like this one.

(46:54):
Am I the asshole or am I the hater for always wanting to yap
non-stop to my partner? I understand all concepts of
personal space theoretically butit's fun to yap.
I know I am in the wrong but am I the asshole?
I thought that was interesting because it's like what are you
doing? That's asshole ish dog.
You're just like wanting to be chatty.
So it makes me ask, are they demonstrating signs of annoyance

(47:21):
or like telling you to stop? Because that's where then a
boundary is there and we have todecide whether that boundary is
being crossed or whether they'rethe asshole for setting it in
the first place. But just at face value, yapping
all day long to your partner is like the Joie de Vive.
As I spoke about earlier, you could tell that I am.

(47:45):
If this person is a hater, then so am I.
Because I be happening all day to Ryan about black Twitter and
stuff, you know? Yeah.
About Black Twitter. Yeah, I don't have much to say
about that one. It sounds like it's just a
legitimate need. And maybe your partner has a
need also legitimate need for more quiet time.

(48:06):
And sometimes you just have two needs and they don't always
match up. And that doesn't mean that one
is right or one is wrong. Yeah, I think that's exactly it.
Not not not that a listener is lame.
I was saying that the my answer was lame, just to be clear.
But it's the truth. But it's so hard.
It's like one of the hardest things I feel as we talked.

(48:28):
About it like conflicting needs.Yeah, yeah.
And that's in general like you can have, you can be different
people at a high level and generally need different things
frequently. And then there can also, it can
also happen on a micro level of like on this day, like this

(48:48):
happens to Ryan and I sometimes where we will just have a day
where I feel like I really need together time or like words of
affirmation or just lots of likeattention.
And he happens to be having a day where he really needs alone
time and personal space. And I'm like, it's like whose

(49:11):
needs take precedence? Then it's hard.
It's really hard. And it doesn't make anybody
wrong. It just makes the timing
unfortunate and the needs unfortunate.
I don't know. I don't know.
Yeah. I mean, I would think that for
any relationship, even the best ones, that there's just going to

(49:32):
be times where, no, your partner's not able to meet your
needs. And I think and that that can be
hard. And maybe you have to go and
like, take care of yourself morefor a period.
But I think that's very different than like long term
not being able to meet someone'sneeds.
Like, yeah, I think there's gonna be moments.
I guess to me, maybe it's the difference between like, you

(49:53):
wanna talk all the time and that's fun and that's connective
and, and your partner never wants to connect that way.
Like that sounds like a problem.That sounds like two people are
going to be unhappy or one or both people are going to be
unhappy as opposed to like, you know, my boyfriend's going
through a really hard time and like he's, you know, emotionally

(50:17):
maybe not that available to me right now, but it's just a hard
month or it's a hard period or there's a specific incident
where I need to take care of myself more.
I'm I think those are different,you know, they're still hard,
but. And I feel like that's why it's
so important to maintain your friendships when you're in a
relationship because go to somebody else with the yapping.

(50:41):
Sometimes, you know, it's so easy to get to fall into a
pattern of like, oh, this is my person.
Maybe you live together or just spend a lot of time together and
you really think of them as yourbest friend.
And like you do want to tell them everything.
And they are the first person that when something funny

(51:01):
happens or good happens or bad happens or whatever, like
they're the first person you want to tell.
And there's nothing wrong with that.
But if they're not available forit at a certain time, when it's
what you want and need, then like having somewhere else to go
comes in handy. Like, and, and honestly, you

(51:21):
might, yeah, you're more likely to get what you need then if, if
I want to talk about some random, like, I don't know, some
maybe it's like gossip about somebody from my college that
Ryan happens to be at home with me.
And that happens to be when I think about it or I get a text

(51:44):
about it or something. And I'm like, whoa, this is like
crazy information. I want to talk to somebody about
it. And I go try to talk to him
about it. And maybe he's busy doing
something and he also doesn't really know who this person is.
And it's just kind of like, whatdo you want me to do with this?
Yeah, wrong audience dog. Like that's when I need to call
one of my best friends and yap with them.

(52:07):
And that's a really low level example, but I think it applies
to anything. Yeah, if it's like, if it's a
common part of your everyday, it's like, OK, shutting it down
one time, denying yourself one time, fine enough.
But like, yeah, you need to findthe rhythm that works for you.
Like Justin, Justin. And I've had to talk through a
few of these. Where a he's like one of the

(52:29):
biggest texters I've ever met. And I don't, you know, I love
him more than anyone, but I justdon't like texting.
I think some of my friends have like gotten offended at me
saying that, but it's not personal.
Like, I also don't want to text with Justin.
Yeah. I just don't.
I just don't like fucking looking at a screen to read
letters with no emotion. Like it does nothing for me but

(52:50):
give me a headache. And I'm and for a while he texts
so much and for a while I was really operating under this
assumption that like, oh, he needs this, he needs this for
me. He needs this.
And I don't want to be a partnerthat denies him.
So like I need to find a way to give this to him.
And it was making me so annoyed,first of all, and like so like

(53:11):
almost resentful because it was so unpleasant and it felt like
such a chore and I was receivingnothing for it was like, I just
don't like I don't, I just don'tlike doing that.
And we had to have like I had tohave like a come to Jesus
conversation about I don't even know how I brought it up, but I
was just like, I'm going to be like, I can't keep doing this

(53:32):
texting. Like what's the schedule we can
do? Or like, how can we find a
compromise? And only once I.
Brought up Wednesdays and Fridays, we.
Text I was trying to set like hourly schedules of like pause
times and text time. And once I brought it up to him,
he was just like, oh, yeah, I like, don't need to do that with
you. Like I text with other people.
Like I don't need to text you. And I was like, really?
That's awesome. Like, I had no idea.

(53:55):
I just made it was just what he naturally does and I just made
this assumption that he needed it from me so badly and I was
completely false, like self important assumption on my part.
And then I think we had like a conversation recently where he
goes on these like long rants and they can be very funny, but

(54:17):
like sometime and I love them, but also sometimes I'm like, I
emotionally can't handle the rants today.
And once again, I thought that like, oh, he, he needs this and
I have to bear it every time because even if I'm not in the
space too, because like, I'm hispartner and how dare I not show
up for him. And then I was running myself
down again in a time that was like emotionally difficult for

(54:40):
me. And so I ended up snapping and
being like, I like, I can't do this right now.
It's so overwhelming to me. And he was just like, Oh, that's
cool. Like I had no idea it had like
any effect on you at all. I don't need to do that with
you. Like I there's he was like,
that's something I could turn onand off.
Like it's not required. And I feel like I just learned
that a the assumption of like, I'm going to betray my own

(55:04):
boundary because this person needs it.
Huge assumptions. There's so many assumptions in
there. And also, even if that were
true, even if this, even if Justin was saying you do have to
do this for me because I need it.
You must betray your own boundaries and sanity for me.
I'm no, you don't. No, you don't.
Yeah. Yeah, 100%.

(55:26):
That's why I'm so curious with this listener, you know, what's
going on on their partner's side.
And is it is their partner saying anything is an issue with
this or are they just assuming that it's an issue for their
partner? Are they assuming it because
they're annoyed with themselves?Like, I fall into that a lot

(55:48):
where I, I think I've been in relationships in the past where
I've been like, too talkative and too needing attention and
too much, like wanting to tell them everything.
And I was met with, yeah, like disinterest at best and at worst

(56:11):
kind of like really dismissiveness and, you know,
calling me needy or whatever it was.
And so now I, I almost assume orfor a long time I assumed with
Ryan or just moving forward in any, in dating and in any
relationship, I assumed that that would be annoying because I

(56:33):
was kind of like trained that itwas.
And while it might sometimes be annoying, like there is space
for it to sometimes annoy somebody, but it doesn't mean on
the whole the behavior is annoying and like, unwelcome.
It just means that like, sometimes people have space for
it and sometimes they don't. Or at least somebody who wants

(56:57):
to be with me and want and likesthese things about me on the
whole. And so that's what I've found
with Ryan, like sometimes it does annoy him because he's not
in a space for it. But a lot of the times he's
happy to partake in my rant or my, you know, high energy or my
talkativeness because that's me and he loves me.

(57:20):
And it took me a long time to like, trust that.
I think I was assuming for a long time that that was annoying
to him because it was annoying. It has been annoying to other
people. And because it's not his nature.
So yeah, it's like, oh, well, hedoesn't do it.
He doesn't do that back to me. So that must mean that it's
annoying to him. And it's like, no, it's just

(57:41):
we're different. But he likes me and loves me.
So that's something he enjoys about me.
Yeah. And he's had to, like, shake
that into me and, like, really get me to believe it.
So I don't know if that's relevant to this person writing
in, but I do think, like it's very possible you're assuming

(58:03):
that this is annoying your partner and they're actually
totally fine most of the time with it.
Or if they are not, then I wouldbe curious.
Yeah. Like how that looks and how
that's showing up and whether it's a good situation or a bad
situation for you. Yeah, if her haterness is
internal feelings or external feedback, such a big deal to

(58:26):
like realize these things that you were told were annoying
about yourself. I mean, I guess we can all be
annoying, and it's also OK for your partner to annoy you
sometimes. But like those major, like,
personality pieces that you're like, oh, you just love me.
You just like me. Yeah, one of the like.
Hard to believe sometimes I wantto believe, I thought.

(58:48):
It is hard to believe. It is hard, even though I like
myself, I actually genuinely like myself and I still find it.
Hard to believe you do like yourself.
Yeah, because say like, I don't think of you as being as self
hating as I am. No, I really am not.
And it's still hard for me because even if I like it about
myself and my friends like it about me and like most of the

(59:12):
data points I have point to likethis is a fine or even good
thing, a lovable thing. If past relationships, romantic
relationships have informed me that it doesn't work in that
context, then that's what I'm basing it off of.
So it it's not even about like self loathing for me.

(59:35):
It's about like, oh, I have learned that in relationships
this is not welcome. Yeah, it's very contextual.
I'll say the most I think the most loved I've ever felt by
Justin This one this one night when I was being really
annoying, but I was also being really me.

(59:58):
I'm. And he, we like got home from a
like a night out and he was a little tipsy and like in bed,
just like ready to pass out. Like, you know, shoes might not
even be coming off. He's like, he's done.
And I was like completely sober and just like I, I usually I get
a second wind at night and I just like start running around.

(01:00:20):
I get really hyper at night usually.
And you can tell it's happening because I start screaming second
wind. And that's how you know what's
happening. So annoying.
And I think we had like rice or something leftover.
Maybe we were like Chinese food or something late at night, like
late munchies. And he was laying in bed and I'm

(01:00:42):
having my second wind and like eating Chinese food completely
sober, just like sitting on the ground.
And I, I've, I always like inventing like weird little
games to annoy people that make me laugh.
And I started feeding, I startedfeeding him grains of rice, 1
grain at a time with the chopsticks.
And I would hold 1 grain of riceup to his mouth and I'd say rice

(01:01:04):
and he would have to eat it. And but then I was like, no, no,
no, no. You have to take the rice with
the tiniest piece of your tip ofyour tongue that you can.
You can only stick out just the amount of tongue that you need
to get the rice off the chopstick.
Like really tiny. So you used to have to be like
like a little cat and it was making me laugh so hard.
And I probably did this for 20 minutes and he by and by the

(01:01:27):
way, he's basically asleep. And I was like, oh, he's going
to snap and get mad at me any moment.
He's going to be so annoyed. Like this was cute for a moment
and it's making me laugh and he's kind of laughing and he's
basically asleep and he's going to snap any moment because
people, because people snap at that stuff.
And he ate the whole. Bowl No.
That's so good. And he never snapped at me.

(01:01:51):
And it was like maybe the biggest turning point, one of
the biggest turning points whereI was just like, you just like
to make me laugh and giggle and like you'll, you're just sweet
to me. Like he was vulnerable.
He was tired. He didn't want any more rice.
He didn't want to eat it the wayI was making the way I was

(01:02:12):
making him eat it with just the tip of his tongue.
And I'm, yeah, we still say riceto each other.
It's kind of like how we say I love you and I'll just be like.
Right, that's really sweet. It was really amazing.
And I told him that I was like, I kept waiting for you to snap
at me and I knew I was gonna deserve it.
Cause like, yeah, that it was making.
I was having fun, but you could have been annoyed.

(01:02:33):
You could have been so annoyed. And I know that feeling, that
feeling of like, at any moment this person's gonna snap at me.
I know I'm being annoying and I'm it's almost like I'm testing
them or something because in my head I'm like, I'm like, they're
gonna snap. I can.
I'm like visualizing. It Oh, that's so true.
And yeah, I've, I've felt that many times with Ryan where he

(01:02:55):
never does. And I'm like you.
Never snap. I'll try again tomorrow buddy,
like I'm. Hitting you with a quinoa in the
morning? Yeah, yeah, We had going back to
the talkativeness and like a story of feeling very loved a
few weeks ago. I was being very annoying and I

(01:03:19):
knew I was being very annoying and but I, I also, you know, I'm
like, it's kind of cute when I'mannoying, you know, like if you
love me, then you also probably think it's cute because like I
do and I don't remember exactly what I was doing, but I was
being annoying and I was being thank you.
Hate this word, but it's the only word like needy.

(01:03:40):
I was just really wanting affection and words of
affirmation and I was feeling like my cup was low on the words
of affirmation. I think like there was actually
a genuine feeling behind it of like, I, I need some more of
that right now. But I was asking for it and,
like, setting up situations for it with Ryan in a way that was

(01:04:02):
very immature and like, irritating, but also kind of
funny to me and like, whatever. And I was waiting for him to be
annoyed. And I could tell he kind of was,
to be honest. I was really pushing his
buttons. But then, like, at some point,
something switched in him from being like, what is she doing

(01:04:26):
and what does she want? And like, this is kind of
annoying. And I don't know if I have
energy for it. Like that was kind of the vibe I
was getting from him. And I just kept going, 'cause
I'm fucking relentless. And then something switched in
him and all the sudden he launched into this like whole
rant with like all these really sweet and meaningful, like

(01:04:48):
compliments and words of affirmation and like things he
loves about me. And like I was poking and
prodding for it, but he delivered it in such an above
and beyond way that was very unlike him.
Like it was this like professionof love because he.
Read you. He read like he read what was

(01:05:09):
really happening for the person he loved.
Yeah, he like knew that's what Ineeded.
And then he found a way to do itand still make it like so
special and genuine, even thoughit was what I was like, almost
begging for like. Demanding.
Demanding like it's this interesting thing of asking your
partner for what you need. And then sometimes there's this

(01:05:32):
trap of, well, I asked you for that.
So does it even, like, does it even count if I had to like, ask
you to say something nice about me?
I really try not to do that. I try to be like, sometimes I
need things and he can't read mymind and I need to just ask for
them and I can't hold it againsthim that I had to ask.

(01:05:53):
So I generally try to have that like attitude about it, but he
just went so above and beyond and went on this whole like rant
really. And he's not a ranter.
I'm the ranter. And it was really special for
him to just like verbally profess exactly what I needed
and more after me being so fucking annoying.
I was like, you still. I did all that and you still

(01:06:16):
mean all that like sweet, we gotwe're we're locked in sounds
like. You know, you're fucked.
Oh, you're fucked. Funny.
It's just so nice. It's so, it's beautiful.
It's beautiful. It's really rare.
Justin and I almost broke up like maybe like two months into

(01:06:37):
dating, like I was ready to end it because he was not verbally
affectionate. Like you were talking about if
you ask for it, does it even mean anything?
And I think I kind of thought that too.
I was like, this dude loves to text, but he's not into like
verbal affection and it so it wasn't super affectionate stuff.

(01:07:00):
It was just like chatty, chatty,chatty, chatty, chatty.
And it was really fucking with my head and I thought he didn't
like me or it or even maybe thisis just his limitation.
That's not his love language. And then that sucks too, but
that's my love language and I need that.
It's kind of like dating someonewho doesn't like to cuddle.
Like we're then we're going to break up.

(01:07:21):
Like I don't care if it's, you know, then it's a a mismatch of
needs. And so I was like at a breaking
point and I thought it was goingto be over and I 'cause I
thought this was the thing that wasn't changeable.
And he was like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.
Like this is this is something Ican change.
Like I can do this. And I kind, I think I kind of
thought that I would feel the same way, like, well, if I'm

(01:07:42):
asking you to do it and you're just doing it mechanically, it's
not going to feel good to me. But I think like if someone
really, really does feel those things, they can learn to do it.
And I was just reflecting on this the other day, how he is so
verbally affectionate now. And I, I don't stop to think
about it. I don't question it.
It, it's like I, I, I had to askfor him to express it that way.

(01:08:05):
And now it's so natural and sucha part of our everyday life,
like multiple times throughout every single day.
It's never felt mechanical. And I think before going through
that, I wouldn't have thought itwas worth asking for.
I didn't think it was worth asking for.
I wasn't asking him to change it.
I was basically just asking to end things because I was like,

(01:08:26):
well, this is obviously something you're.
A person that doesn't do that, yeah.
And I'm, and I was just thinkingabout that the other day about
like, wow, I definitely thought you, I wouldn't believe him.
But I'm, I think, you know, there probably are some people
who would mechanically start doing it and it wouldn't feel
convincing. But you know what feels real and

(01:08:49):
what doesn't? Yeah.
And at some point it's like maybe at the beginning they do
have to put in more of a concerted effort into like
starting to share more words of affirmation.
Maybe it does feel a little bit forced at the beginning of like
this isn't natural to them and they you've asked them to try

(01:09:09):
and so they're trying. But if they continue to do it,
then it's at some point you haveto be like, OK, now it's just
becoming more natural. And now they just honestly, they
wanted to develop this skill forme, like just wanting to improve
at it is a huge, huge thing. Like just just wanting to.

(01:09:33):
And they're wrapping themselves.Around.
You're learning a whole different language, so like, it
probably will feel weird. It's like they have to practice.
It's like the first times you and I started making Instagram
Reels, it's like we felt awkwardat first.
Like you're, you're not used to communicating that way.
So it takes a while for it to feel natural.
It's like they have to practice it too.

(01:09:54):
Yeah, exactly. You and Ryan.
Anything. Well, I just think there's
something about wanting to do it.
Obviously at some point wanting isn't enough and there needs to
be action. So I'm not trying to say that
like stay with somebody who saysthey want to do something for
you, who then shows no signs of actually doing it.

(01:10:16):
That's not the message. But I think when you're first
figuring each other out and likeyou're learning to express your
needs with a new partner who shows up differently than you,
just knowing that they want to try is goes a really long way.

(01:10:38):
And that's something that I usedto tell Ryan because he would
almost get down on himself of like, oh, if I don't do this
naturally, then am I not the right person for you?
And that's always the way he phrased it is like, am I not
right for you? He never once said, are you not
right for me? He always was like, am I not

(01:11:00):
right for you? And I tried to reassure him and
be like, well, you want, it sounds like you want to try.
You want to see if you can. And that's like enough for me in
the short term, like I'll let you know if it's not, but right,
like that's actually enough. You're two different people.

(01:11:21):
This is something I feel like I've been screaming at people
recently, people who are like, oh, what about this one
difference we have? I'm like one difference.
You could find the ideal partnerand you're going to have 100
differences. You're different people.
They are not going to this idea that you are going to find that
anyone can find someone who believes everything that they

(01:11:42):
believe about life and approaches every situation the
same way and it communicates in all the same ways and wants
every single exact same thing and likes all the exact same
things. No you fucking won't.
You're two different people. Hopefully there's enough of a
balance there. But with anyone you end up with,
any couple that you admire the most, they're just different

(01:12:04):
people. You're going to have different,
you're going to have differencesof opinion.
You're going to have different ways of dealing with things.
You're going to have different strengths.
Hopefully your strengths and weaknesses kind of balance each
other out. They're going to be different.
And thank fucking God you don't do everything the same.
It's so not a reason to write someone off.
And I totally agree that like wanting to do it, like I think a
lot of couples therapists would say I'm if you're both still

(01:12:28):
showing up and still wanting to put in the work, there's that's
the relationship is still there.But as soon as even one person
either doesn't want it anymore or doesn't want to try new
things anymore with whatever problems you have, that's the
that's the nail in the coffin. That's it.
But wanting to keep trying and wanting to still be there, I
think that's, I think that's it.That's.

(01:12:50):
All it can be, it's all it can be.
Totally. Nobody comes ready made for you.
There's going to be something that you know you wish was a
little different or just doesn'twork.
It doesn't mesh with you in the most ideal way.
And if you can talk about it andexpress intent to try and make

(01:13:15):
it better, and then hopefully you do see improvements.
But I don't think, I mean I Ryan's not turned into like the
most verbally effusive guy on the planet.
That's not who he is. And I.
And that's also not why you chose him.
Yeah. Exactly, I love who he, I don't
want him to change who he is, but it is something that I

(01:13:38):
needed more of from where he wasat at the beginning of our
relationship and he has shown upand given me more of it and
without changing himself. Like, this is a conversation I
have with my friends a lot who are in relationships, like, and
maybe, you know, going through something or just going through
the growing pains of building a life with somebody that they

(01:14:00):
love. And there's this dynamic of like
wanting your partner to improve something or maybe change
something and then them possiblyfeeling like, well, if I have to
change for you, then is this notright?
Or like, are you trying to change me?
I don't like the idea that you're trying to change me.

(01:14:22):
And I just feel like there's this difference of asking for
changes or improvements or shifts or adjustments or
whatever in behavior and, and communication and like things
that show up in the relationshipin terms of how they treat you
and how they interface with you.And then that's different from

(01:14:44):
like wanting them to change who they are fundamentally.
You love that person and you don't want them to change who
they are fundamentally. But there are like these
relational, interpersonal. I wanna have an example.
I think it's even come up with me and Ryan in some way where I
had to shift his mindset from hearing my points of maybe

(01:15:09):
feedback or like requests for change or improvement or
something. Hearing them as like this is for
us and for our relationship to be stronger.
This is what I need for our relationship to be stronger
versus having him hear it as like I don't.

(01:15:32):
Like who you are? I don't like who you are.
Yeah. I mean, it's, it's what we're
talking about with the love languages, like the way that
somebody expresses love isn't who they are.
It's a developed behavior or communication style based on
their past experiences, but it'snot who they are.
They have the capacity to shift that change that we talked about

(01:15:54):
attachment styles with Carter last week.
Like your attachment style is something that develops early
and then you can shift it if youwant to and if you find the
person that supports you doing it.
So it it's kind of like that. Yeah, I agree.
It's like, I mean, all you can do is ask.
The idea that like, we're not supposed to change for anybody
is, I think, laughable to me because you're changing anyway.

(01:16:16):
We're not. None of us are static.
We're changing all the time. We're all evolving, all changing
whether someone asks us to or not.
And so to think that you're never going to take into
consideration the requests for change or adjustment from your
dearest person, that's bizarre to me.
Like what I'm changing anyway. I'm changing for stuff all the

(01:16:38):
time. I'm changing for life
circumstances. I'm changing for goals, I'm
changing for new paths. I'm changing for friendships.
Like, and I'm not going to listen to like the request for
change from my closest person. I might not say yes to all of
them. I don't think you always need to
say yes, but I like, yeah, change is a huge part.
You change for each other. And also I think it's like

(01:16:59):
legitimate, you know, I could have asked Justin.
I could have told Justin I need more verbal communication, and
he could have said, listen, I love you, but I can't do that.
That's his right. That's not wrong.
It just means we're not going tobe together.
Like, you have a right to say noto requests for change, but you
get away that request with like,is this core to who I am?
Am I going to die on this hill? Or is this, like, something I

(01:17:21):
can think about and learn more about and it's worth the
adjustment? Yeah.
Nah. Yeah, Speaking of change and
being open to that change in thefact that we're changing all the
time, it's also possible that somebody who is too stuck in
their ways and and has a mindsetof like, no, I won't change

(01:17:45):
that. I won't shift for you.
I won't try to, you know, adjustthis because of your needs.
Maybe that's not a person who maybe that's not a good match
for you. If you are somebody who is
willing to make those types of changes.
Like I feel like that's a there's a level to which like

(01:18:05):
you can talk it through and maybe they can start to see it
differently and understand it differently.
The way that I was able to kind of get that through to Ryan.
But then there's also another type of person that doesn't have
interest in that type of growth.And if you are a person that
does, then maybe that's the point at which you realize like,

(01:18:26):
oh, that's we're actually just not well matched.
Because if their expectation is that they're gonna stay the same
forever and we're gonna build this, I want to build this like
long life with them that I know is going to change and throw new
things at us all the time. And they're not willing to, you
know, be malleable this early, then maybe that's not, maybe

(01:18:49):
that's not somebody that's really ready to be in that type.
Of relationship 'cause it it basically just means that they
don't care about your experienceof them enough.
You know the idea that like a request for change from your
partner means they're trying to change you like maybe it will
maybe it maybe it's an invalid request or or an unfair request.
You can decide that, but I thinka lot of the time it's just

(01:19:11):
like, oh, this is one of my needs that is kind of being
missed. And it's a need I'd like to, you
know, have filled by you. So to be like, Nah, it's like,
OK, so somebody doesn't care about your experience of this
relationship very much. I was in that relationship
before where every time I asked,asked for something, he would
kind of attack me by being like,so you don't even like who I am.

(01:19:33):
You don't even like who I am. And it really got in my head and
I was like, I mean, there's probably a part of it that I
shouldn't have been with him. No shit.
I think there was a part of it that was like, I am trying to
make something work that obviously doesn't fucking work.
But then there was also a part of it that was just like a
little bit of narcissism, like you can't, you can't really

(01:19:55):
consider anyone else's experience in what's supposed to
be a mutual dynamic. Yeah, I wouldn't want to be in
that relationship either. Yep, Yeah, Ryan and I like to
try to distinguish there's like,there's him, there's me, and
there's the relationship. The relationship is like almost
a third person in this dynamic. And so sometimes it makes it

(01:20:20):
easier to talk about the relationship having these
changes and shifts or like this is what the relationship needs.
It ultimately is like this is what I need to happily be in the
relationship, but therefore it'swhat the relationship needs.
But the relationship between thetwo of us needs things that you

(01:20:41):
require and things that I require.
And so, yeah, sometimes that takes like the personal attack.
I like that. Tendency out of it because it's
not like you need to change. For me, it's like the
relationship needs this type of change or this type of evolution
or this type of, yeah, more of this, less of this, whatever.

(01:21:04):
And that's the truth because like, if certain needs aren't
met for Jessica, then the relationship will suffer and
then Ryan will also suffer. It's like every everybody
suffers when one person's important needs aren't being
met. It's like we're all going to
feel this. Yeah, Hesseka.
OK, I can't remember what I was going to say, but I swear to God
it was good. So you just have to take my bet

(01:21:26):
for it. I bet it was.
I bet it. Was tell us next.
Time OK, we got to go. We got to go, go, go.
I love you Caroline, and I love you.
Most of the people listening probably find us at Not the
number 4 everyone pod on Instagram.
We're posting some cute stuff and I want you to be there.

(01:21:48):
And that's it. Oh, send us.
I'm going to say send us some more.
Am I the hater conundrums we want?
To leave. Juicy something that you are
what I want. The ones we'll pick are ones
where it is genuinely complicated, nuanced, there's a
bunch of legitimate perspectives.
Not the ones where it's like, obviously you think you're in

(01:22:10):
the right and everyone would agree with you, blah blah blah.
Send us a real juicy like I wantto say headbanger.
Is that what it's called? I wanted to say like Lip
Smacker. So that's.
Weird. A headbanger Lip smacker.
Send us one of those. Yes, agree and send.

(01:22:30):
US1 That's going to stump us. Yeah, I would love, I would love
to be Stumper, butt Stumper if you need to send it somewhere
other than Instagram, if you're blocked from sending us messages
on Instagram, I don't know why that is for some people, I'm
sorry about it. But we have an e-mail.
It's the same as our Instagram at Gmail, not the number 4

(01:22:51):
everyone pod at Gmail. So do that.
Thanks. You said thanks so.
Crazy. Thanks.
Thanks. Thanks.

(01:23:13):
I feel crazy in a good way.

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