115. Not for Bodily Horrors + How to Get More From Your Relationships

Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
When I'm listening to someone talk, I have this idea that I
need to be like chiming in with a comment or yesing them or Yang
them or like active listening. And it's just really draining to
me. And I've had these moments
recently of just being like, youdon't have to really give
anything, just listen. Hey, welcome back.

(00:28):
We're not for everyone. I'm your lover, Jess, and I'm
here with your hater, Caroline. It's a podcast hosted by 1 hater
and one lover. And we're together again.
And I have a lot of weird thingsto talk to you about right right
from the get, if you're down forthat.
Yeah. OK.

(00:49):
Well, while we were apart those few weeks that we were recording
our solo episodes and stuff, I aggregated a lot of notes and I
was like, I'm really excited to talk to Caroline about these
things. And I was looking through them
this morning to get organized for today and like all of the
good ones, happened to be bathroom related.

(01:10):
OK. So I have some potty humor up
top and we're just going to go down my list of some bathroom
related observations that I wantyour take on.
OK. So the first thing is, have we
talked about peeing in cups yet on this show?
Like, has that come up? No, not yet.

(01:32):
No. Can we just talk about what a
ridiculous ask that is when you go to the doctor and you have to
pee in the cup and you're a woman and you don't have a
bodily device that like shoots, points and shoots?
Can we? And then points.
Can we talk about that? And they're like, oh, and then

(01:52):
just take it, walk it down to the lab, which is down the hall.
You have to pee in a cup and then you have to take a wet cup
down the hall. Yeah.
Yeah, you have to parade your own.
Pee and then you have to hand itto someone and be.
Around the hall. Here you go and like.
I made this. Smile at them like what's your

(02:12):
energy supposed to be when you arrive at that person?
What is your energy supposed? Are you supposed to be like
proud or like really chill aboutit or like.
It's funny because I know like they're medical professionals
and they do it literally probably hundreds of times a day
and they don't care, but they still know that I don't do it

(02:33):
hundreds of times a day. So like me, I feel like I still
have to act shameful. I feel like that's my part of
the routine because if I'm acting just like confident and
proud, they're like, well I'm chill about this but you should
feel weird. You know exactly exactly but.
And I do. I almost want to know if there
are listeners who are like nurses or medical assistants or

(02:56):
something. What, like if they have a take
on this, If it's like a thing that's talked about in the
medical community, how weird patients are when they deliver
their pee in the cup? I know because you know, the
nurses and doctors are like, listen, I'm elbow deep and vomit
every other hour. Like I'm sticking things in
rectums. Like I don't give a fuck about

(03:18):
you carrying a cup of pee, right?
You know they don't give a fuck.I know that they're fine.
It's just like I, I think I wantto match their chill, like
they're fine. They do this all the time.
So I want to act like, Oh yeah, this is no big deal to me too,
but I don't think I successfullydo that.

(03:39):
Your compulsion to fit in is. I just want to match energies.
I just just. Everything.
Just want to match energies. OK, so here's another matching.
Energy and be like, where's yours?
You give them your cup and you're like, where's your cup?
I'm so I'm so stoked to take your cup.
Right. But I'm not that stoked.
Like, if I'm not supposed to be stoked, OK.

(03:59):
Another matching energy bathroommoment is when you're either
waiting, let's say you're at a restaurant and it's a like
single person bathroom. So there's a line that forms the
look that you give someone, the like greeting and like smile
that you exchange with someone when they leave the bathroom and

(04:21):
you walk in. Do you know what I mean?
I don't look people in the eyes that often.
I think I really avoid eye contact, but there is still
sometimes an exchange. There's an exchange that happens
when you've been waiting for thebathroom and then the person
walks out and you're just kind of like, I wish I could make the
face that I'm making over audio.You just give them a little like

(04:41):
nod and closed lip smile of like, good day, like thank you.
I will go into the bathroom after you now.
Yeah. Here are my judgments.
Yeah, my judgments in that moment.
I'm not. I'm not, I'm not opposed to the
the exchange of expressions. I'm not opposed to it.
I'm also not hoping for it. What does annoy me is when

(05:05):
someone comes out and it's only ever a young female comes out
and they just don't hold the door for you at all.
And they just kind of like let it like blow you in the face and
it's annoying to me. And then if they do hold it for
you and they're like, OK, you can go in there and you're, do
your poopies now, like I didn't mind, put yours on top and they

(05:25):
hold it for you a little bit. I, I appreciate it.
And also it makes me laugh that we're like sharing our our poopy
house together. That's exactly it.
I had this moment. But it it always it also annoys
me. I'm like fucking hold the door.
For me. It's the young women.
Sometimes there's those moments.I don't know, I have this, I
have this feeling with like different populations in society

(05:48):
where like there, there are a lot of young women who won't
ever fucking hold the door for you when they definitely should.
And I'm like, yeah, This is why you're This is why people hate
young women and then or like entitled seeming young women.
And then I had a moment this morning, like walking from the
Whole Foods on like a Sunday morning, walking down the street
in a Sunday morning, like with acoffee with Justin walking back

(06:11):
from Whole Foods and every otherperson on the corner looks like
the identical white person. Like we were all in uniform with
our fucking coffees and our fucking Lululemons.
And I was like, God, This is whypeople hate white people.
Like this is this is my culture.But like, sometimes you guys are
so annoying. Sometimes you guys are so
fucking annoying to look at. And I I have those moments, like

(06:33):
with these slices of my own culture sometimes.
Anyway, that's how I feel about young women who don't hold the
poopy door to you. Yeah, I get it.
It's like you're making the restof us look bad.
Like, can you just show some decorum or something so that
people stop hating us? Yeah, I I get that.
Well, there's different. There's the scenario where it's

(06:54):
like a normal they leave the bathroom, you go into the
bathroom, you exchange the closed lip smile, they hold the
door for you. Everything's fine.
Something about that, even though it's the normal way that
it should go, is still bizarre to me.
And then the alternative is. Like.
Yeah, like, oh, we're both, we're both.
We both use the bathroom around the same time.

(07:15):
Like we must have drank water and ate food around the same.
What what are the chances did? You have a 7:00 PM reservation?
Oh, same. So I guess we're on the same
like timing here. Did you have a small snack right
before that started that that got things going before you got
the bread basket at the table? Yeah, I mean, 2% same.
And then there's the situation where somebody leaves the
bathroom or you leave the bathroom and it smells, but it

(07:39):
smelled before you got in there,you know?
Yeah, it smells. You walk in, you're like, shoot.
My friend Tessa calls it I'm getting framed.
It is getting framed for a. Stink.
And then there's like almost a little shrug that I do when I'm
framed to be like, to try to communicate through the shrug in
the eyes that like, it wasn't me, Shaggy, it wasn't me, you

(08:02):
know? Wasn't mean that's.
Funny. Anyway, I've just been thinking
a lot about this bathroom interactions.
I mean it's hilarious it's so funny.
Also why hasn't there been a ROMcom yet where the meet cute is
like them having diarrhea at thesame time waiting for the
bathroom and they're like. Like on a plane.
Oh, yeah. And then you were describing the
like, little closed lip smile that you exchange, but I'm like

(08:26):
kind of dazed. And I thought I heard closed lip
kiss. And I was like, what if you just
had to do a little kiss, forehead kiss, exchange
positions of the bathroom? I have no lips.
I want lips, a little lip kiss. I'm thinking somebody, one
person kneels. The person who's walking in
kneels to the person who's walking out, and the person
who's walking out plants a forehead kiss.
And then they, you know, like a little.

(08:46):
It's like a royal dubbing ceremony.
Yeah, just a little, a little dab, just.
A little something. OK, here's my last Oh, go ahead,
go ahead. I have more.
Yeah, I do have more bathroom content.
I was going to squeeze one in the moment.
To me, that's always crazy is when you go into a public
bathroom and it's a row of stalls with a bunch of stalls

(09:08):
all lined up. And just like the, the construct
of like, it's like if I walk outside of the stalls in the
public shared sink area, it is so not OK for me to just like
RIP a fart there. But if I just walk behind this
little flap of a door where you can still see my feet and if I

(09:29):
jumped, you could see my head. And if you look through the
crack, you can see me and like we're sharing the same air, I
can RIP it. In.
There I don't know something about that.
Just like everyone, just like, like, like lining up in these
like little zones that are not separate areas at all and just
farting in the line. It always makes me laugh.
And then we walk out and we're like, oh, I was just reading in

(09:52):
there. I wasn't doing anything out of
the ordinary. Like I'm the lady, I'm a.
Lady, that is a really good setup for what my next point was
because it was about the stalls.First of all, yes, agree that it
is bizarre that like these little metal, you know, forms
like are what makes that OK. At the same time, imagine if

(10:13):
those weren't there because, forexample, OK, it's ancient.
Greece, Are you about to tell? Are you about to tell?
Are you about to tell me about ancient Greece?
No, never. OK, well I am.
Are you talking about like the how they didn't they just like
pee in a dirt like in the groundlike a?
Whole I'll I'll pull up the I'llpull up, pull up the Wikipedia.

(10:33):
What is going to me? I just woke up for woke up for a
nap. Wikipedia, Wikipedia.
You tell me what you're going tosay.
OK, no, what I was going to say is about how you're seeing more
and more like all gender bathrooms, which I'm supportive
of. I'm all good with that.
However, because the restaurant,let's say, or the the whatever

(10:54):
place you're at was originally built to have one female
restroom and 1 male restroom, the the way it's set up is still
such that the female bathroom has a bunch of stalls with doors
and toilets and the male bathroom has a bunch of urinals
and then maybe one stall with the toilet.
And now all they've done is put signs on both of them that say

(11:17):
all genders. I get it and I'm for the
movement towards that. However, I really personally do
not prefer to go into the one with a urinal.
And the main reason is because why isn't the urinal in a stall
too? It just.
Starts to make you think like why were men's bathrooms always

(11:39):
constructed in a way where it was just a line of urinals and
nobody cared about privacy like I get that they don't have to
take off their full pants to go pee but they're still pulling
out they're. Still out.
They're still out. You can see them.
If if you want to see them, you can you.
Can still see them so. You know, that the designer of
like the original, like men's bathroom.

(12:02):
Yeah. It's probably ancient Greece.
And there's just some, just somepervert.
And they're like, OK, well, we, we took care of the women's.
We took care of the public women's bathroom in this
library. So on to the men's.
And they're like, OK, well, we got the stalls lined up and he's
like, no, no, no, no, no. We're doing something different.
And they're like, why? What do you mean?

(12:23):
Whoa. I think it's just nicer to have
him out and about. Let him breathe.
Well, what's the difference with?
I mean, actually the women are kind of like more communally,
like safer with each other and their bodies.
And we even divided them up. No, no, no, no, no.
I think I want to just kind of peep next to them in case

(12:45):
somebody likes case. I like that.
I'm not saying I like it, but someone might like it.
Someone might feel claustrophobic.
I think you're right about ancient Greece.
I think what we're learning is that that's where it all started
and where it all went wrong. Do you have?
Do you have a visual? For us, I do visual.
So this is an article from Smithsonian Magazine Article My

(13:09):
Brain is Not awake. Smithsonian Magazine.
How the Ancient Romans went to the bathroom.
Picture a room. Picture A room.
Three of the walls are covered in a bench against the wall.
Little holes, little holes just to dangle your pee pee in with a
little room to swing it around without touching the sides if
you wanted to. And they would just sit there

(13:30):
and poop at the same time and all together.
And they would just talk. And they didn't have toilet
paper, so they used a soft, gentle tool called a tersorium,
which literally translates as a wiping thing.
And it was just a little sponge,like if you just punctured a

(13:51):
sponge with a stick. And they all had one that they
shared. No.
Here let let me. Read a post me there.
Oh, there's a quote from ancientRome.
Perfect. Yes.
Let me see. Yeah.
A quote from the bathroom. The clothes they wore would
provide a barricade so you couldactually do your business in a
in relative privacy. Get up and go.

(14:12):
Yes, they were skirts. OK.
And hopefully your Togo wasn't too dirty after that, despite
the lack of toilet paper. Toilet goers did wipe.
That was what the mysterious shallow gutter was for.
The Romans cleaned their behindswith sea sponges attached to a
stick, and the gutter supplied clean water flowing to dip the

(14:36):
sponges in. Delicious.
OK. The Romans like to move their
bowels in comfort. Whether they washed their hands
after that is another story. Oh, what?
What is this article called again?
Where can we find it If we want to like, do a deep dive later,
Have a book club? This is Smithsonian Magazine how
the ancient Romans went to the bathroom.

(14:58):
Fantastic. You see these pics?
We'll link it. Yeah, they would just sit there
together. I mean chat I guess.
So then the question becomes at what point did they decide?
Did did society decide to separate men and women #1?
But separate men only for the poops.

(15:20):
Yes. And then in the men's bathroom,
right, they still are together for peeing, but for the poops,
they're separate and for women, they're separate all the time.
I just think once the stall was invented and we all observed
that farting in the main area isnot cool, but farting behind the
stall is cool. That should have been a sign to

(15:41):
everyone that like, oh, stalls are good, stalls are necessary,
let's put them everywhere. It's just, it's just very
strange. Anyway, just just what I've been
thinking about. I know.
Can you imagine like sitting there like they're basically
like at a conference in this bathroom, like sitting together.
But then every once in a while, like whether you can see

(16:03):
people's genitals or not, there's audio, there's sound
effects. Oh, totally.
Just interrupting. And maybe it's.
Just exploding from different corners of the room.
But you don't know who it is, and maybe there's a beauty.
And I bet you could guess. I bet you could guess.
Have you ever watched a baby poop?
Oh yeah, the facial expressions,the crinkle.
There's like a nose crinkle that.
Goes on. I actually hate it.

(16:23):
I really hate it. When babies the face of a baby
pooping. Not so much a baby, but like a 2
year old who's able to walk around, but they're still like
shitting in their pants And they'll just like stand at their
little like I, I can see this soclearly, just like a little 2
year old, like standing at theirlittle push train that they walk
around with like a kind of like a Walker And they'll just like

(16:45):
stare you in the face while gripping their little push train
Walker and just being. And it's like, have some fucking
manners. You're old enough to walk.
Like, I don't know it, it's probably the most I ever hate a
child. Interesting.
Yeah. That, you know, I have a lot of
other examples of when I'm not the biggest fan of children, but

(17:05):
that's I'm OK with that one. I think it's OK.
It's annoying. Yeah.
I Why can't we teach shame younger?
Shame is productive sometimes, until it's not.
Yes, you know. Yeah, but we can't with with no
shame. What kind of civilization are we

(17:26):
living in? Yeah, I think we're approaching
that pretty soon actually. Yeah, fair.
OK. Does that all you have to say
about bathroom? That's it, yeah.
Did you like any of it? Like maybe it was, it was OK to
start on that. I liked all of it.
I liked all of it a lot. Yeah.
This one time. Here's a bathroom story.

(17:46):
Should we? Should we just?
Keep bathrooms all the time, Yeah.
I'm, I mean, I have so many horrible bathroom stories
because I have IBS, but what I'mthinking of was this one time I,
I still think about this in shame.
Speaking of shame, I still thinkabout this sometimes.
Well, this one time I went over there was this like

(18:11):
sister-in-law from my ex's family had the whole family over
like sisters and brothers and parents over for Easter brunch
into their very small New York apartment.
And it was a really nice apartment, but it was really
small. It's New York.
And so you're like eating Easterbrunch right next to the single

(18:33):
tiny bathroom. And I was like super sick to my
stomach and I had to go to the bathroom.
Going to the bathroom in New York apartments is the fucking
worst. And I'm, and I was in the
bathroom and like, you know, I did, did, did what the Lord
forced me to do and it was horrible and smelled so bad.

(18:54):
And then I didn't have like any why do people not put bathroom
spray or matches in there or something?
And I'm like, what is is no one Is no one else sick?
Daily. No.
You're going to be so happy whenyou come to my bathroom.
I have all these that you need. Please, I respect my guests.
Yes, you're the one eating fucking Easter eggs like 2 feet

(19:16):
away. This isn't for for me, this is
for you put a fucking match in the bathroom and it was like
horrific. And I just spent 20 minutes in
there. So everybody knew and I was
trying to like cover up the smell some way.
And the only thing I could find that would create a scent was
somebody's like Hairspray or dryshampoo that was scented.
So I was spraying that all over the bathroom.

(19:39):
And this was also kind of their house warming.
They just moved in there and whatever I like sprayed that
shit all over the place. Then like went back to Easter
brunch and then later we left the brunch, left the apartment
and the mother of whatever the family was like talking shit.
And there was about her daughter-in-law who just hosted
us because this was a toxic family.

(20:00):
And the mother was talking shit and being like just saying
everything she hated about the brunch and being like.
And their bathroom smelled like mildew.
They had mold everywhere. I could smell it.
I could smell that was for sure all the Hairspray.
I sprayed all the dry shampoo. That's crazy.
I have done that before, though.Just whatever you can spray.

(20:21):
Give me any aerosol can. Yeah, that mildew.
They definitely did. They got mildew up in there.
I was like, I know they don't keep a clean house, right?
Gross. It couldn't be me.
I guess we'll never go back there, right?
Let's go somewhere with multiplebathrooms.
Actually, let's do that next Easter.

(20:42):
Yeah, I have a lot of bad bathroom stories that I don't
even know. Like, do people want to hear
them? I don't.
Even I don't know if they do, but it makes me mad to think
about. I feel like I have more bad
bathroom stories than the average man somehow.
Do you mean? Man like male or just person?
The average male. OK.

(21:02):
All right. Just clarifying.
Yeah, I just feel like it like completely controls my life.
It's. Like a that was like a
Declaration of Independence moment.
What do you mean? What do you mean?
I mean Constitution. Yeah, I think I mean
Constitution when you said they do and I need to declare a.
Person or what? Are we talking about I'm just

(21:24):
getting really, really politicalabout it?
Yeah, I did one time when I was doing stand up.
I did a whole 10 minutes on thistime that I shit my pants like
on this. It's called the 606 in Chicago.
It's it's the equivalent of the Highline in New York.

(21:44):
It's like a walkway. It's like a long trail basically
that goes through the city. It's it's a public place where
you shit your. It's a public place where I shit
my pants when I was like a mile from my home after having one of
those like Starbucks Unicorn Frappuccinos or whatever.
Was it was it like, was it a drizzle or?

(22:04):
Was it like, Oh no, Caroline, Ohno, it wasn't a drizzle.
It was. Oh, it was the full Kahoon.
It was worthy of a 10 minute stand up set.
It was the biggest problem I've ever had in my life.
The biggest, the biggest. This was like only four, three
or four years ago, I think. Jessica.
I got this Starbucks drink and Iwent on like, OK, this is when I

(22:29):
was unemployed, fun, employed, like I was taking my career
break and I used to just go on like a four mile walk every day
'cause I had nothing else to do.So I would just go and walk
forever and have a great time. That's.
A great That's a great thing to do, being unemployed.
It was the best life. I, I actually like miss that so
much. It was also COVID and so like

(22:49):
everybody was doing more walkingand stuff outside and whatever.
So I just had to walk. So I, I got this drink and it
was like 3:00 PM. Usually I did my walks earlier
in the day. This day, for whatever reason,
it was a later walk, which I think was the first mistake.
Then I got this drink 'cause it was like trending on TikTok and
it was pink and I wanted to takea picture of it.

(23:12):
I walked a mile and a half away and then like after a mile and a
half, I felt my tummy grumbling and I was like, OK, OK, I, I
hear you. I'll turn around.
I'll go back. Don't worry.
I got it. I noticed you and then I was
probably still like 3/4 of of a mile away from my apartment and

(23:33):
it there was nothing to be done.I was trying to think of like.
So what did you do? So you just walked home like
covered in? So luckily I had a sweatshirt
and so I tied it around my waist.
That's the biggest case I can make for sweatshirts generally.
For tying them around, basically, yeah.
For that look, I would say greatfor when you shit your pants in

(23:57):
public. I was wearing like leggings AT
shirt and a sweatshirt, and thenwhen it happened, I tied the
sweatshirt around my waist. I was like hoping that nobody
could smell it. Luckily everybody was wearing
masks still, so I was like, OK, I think that people can't really
smell me. Jessica.
I got home. Was it contained to your pants?
It was contained because of the leggings.

(24:18):
I really. Want to know?
I actually want to know the details I.
Know it was. It's OK, you were in leggings.
That's pretty. Leggings.
Yeah, black leggings. You don't want to be see this,
you don't want this to be in like a gaucho pants, something
that has like an airflow. You know, it was leggings.
The thing is that I mean, it was.
Jinko's it was. Quite a lot.
Jinko jeans quite a lot, but I could tell there was still more

(24:42):
that needed to go. Like this.
Drink that. Have a body to it, didn't have a
body to it or just straight river.
It was more river than body. I'll say that it was more river.
That makes sense. That makes.
Sense and I'm like walking home,like not making eye contact with
anyone, hoping they don't smell me.
And then I finally get to my apartment door.

(25:02):
And you know when you get to your apartment door and your
body thinks you're home? And so it's like, oh, we can let
our bladder out or we can let the shit like whatever we've
been holding, we can let go. So I'm like in the elevator with
another person and the rest of it goes.
The rest of it happens. Just with another person.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. What did they do?

(25:25):
They didn't know I was really chill about it.
This is why I want to approach nurses with my PEA cup really
chill 'cause I've had these faceoffs where I have to be chill in
the face of. What?
They didn't smell it in an enclosed.
No, it was like towards the end of the elevator, like I got off
like immediately after. And again, we were both wearing

(25:47):
masks and I don't know that it like smelled that bad.
I don't know. I don't.
The smell was the least of it anyway.
That happened to me. Oh, and the funniest?
Part to baking. The funniest?
Jessica Zenon to baking. I had like muted, I had my
Airpods in and when this all started going down while I was
on my walk, I muted the music 'cause I was like, I can't.

(26:11):
Like I feel like the music is gonna make it come out faster.
Like I can't amp myself up more.So I just paused my Spotify, but
I still had the Airpods in. So then when I got to my
apartment and went and to sit onthe toilet, I I like put my
phone down and I must have hit the play button and I like

(26:31):
landed on the toilet and it literally was like, oops, I did
it again. That's why I did it on a stand
up stage. I was like this.
Yeah, that's good. I can't write this, it really
happened to me. Oh, my God.
Wow. That's really crazy.
It was crazy. I mean, listen, hold on, Justin,

(26:51):
can you hear me right now? It just goes, Yeah.
Can you close your ears or something?
This is. Like not conversation for anyone
to hear except. For Justin.
Thousands and thousands. Of people, These are just
stories about Jess. I need you to close your ears
for a while. Have have some respect for me,

(27:14):
Justin. Justin and I do not talk about
the bathroom. That's I, I can't relate, but I
think that's good, I think. He is such a gentleman.
He has never said the word fart out loud in my presence.
He's never said the word. He's never even said the word he
says. He doesn't even think he said it
with his friends. Wow.

(27:36):
Yeah, I mean, I do think this podcast, the 1st 30 minutes of
this are going to maybe upset some people because this is
divisive on if you talk about itor not.
I talk about it. Justin put some earplugs and I
have to tell a story and don't listen to this episode no matter
what. Abby, you can keep all of this,

(28:01):
all right? Are you fucking?
Can you hear me or what? Hello.
He can't hear you. All right, he can't hear me
anymore. OK, go.
Ahead. Yeah.
I don't know. He doesn't want to hear this.
Yeah, Justin is literally never he.
I don't think he's even said he's never said fart.
He's never said poop. We don't talk about this and
it's amazing. No need.

(28:21):
I don't feel that missing from my life, but.
But I do have IBS and that not in like a casual chill.
I wouldn't be included. I was medicated.
I was medicated for years so that my intestines could
function properly. I've seen so many fucking
doctors La La La La la. I had to go six years, no

(28:45):
gluten, no dairy, no soy 'cause my body just couldn't digest.
It's a mess. And I'll say this, I probably
shit my pants a little bit, likeat least once a month.
Oh my God. At least once a month, just at
home, but. It's not.
Like where are you sit? At home, usually just at home.
Just like a miss, Just a mistimed.

(29:06):
Just a mistimed. Right.
Grunt grunt or something. Like you know it's going to come
soon, but you didn't know it was.
No, just, I just don't know whatit's going to be sometimes.
OK, got it. OK.
OK. So that's a monthly occurrence,
but it's not that big a deal. It's just something that like
I'm aware of and but I do the way you're nodding at me.

(29:30):
I've never had an instance. I think you I've never had an
instance. Yeah, me sitting here and
judging your story when I'm doing this once a month.
It was a one time. I've never had that.
I've never had the a full. The full fireworks, yeah.
The full yeah, but I've had thatmoment in public a lot where I'm
like, OK, I could fully shit my pants right now, and if I do,
what am I going to do? Like what piece of my clothing

(29:52):
can I take off? What can?
Like I might be taking off my shirt and I'm just in a bra, but
I will wrap myself in the shirt or whatever it is.
I'm often like planning. Like, yeah, you want to be
prepared in the case of an emergency.
But there is one time the worst had happened.
It's usually just a little whereI'm just confused.
It's usually just a little, but this one time, this was like 10

(30:16):
years ago and I'm maybe like 8 years ago and I had like gone
out drinking with this guy. He was my friend, but like we
would hook up sometimes and I'm and then in the morning we went
thrift shopping and it was messyin a lot of ways, like, you

(30:37):
know, drinking and hooking up, but we were also friends and he
was like kind of, he was literally a therapist.
So we just like therapies at each other.
It was a fucking mess, but we were friends.
But then there was also the sexypart and then there's the
thrifting part. And then we were in the thrift
store and I thought I and then the thrifting part and I thought
I was like just farting casually.

(30:57):
But it, it was more than that. It was more and it came out more
than that in the summer where I was wearing cut off Jean shorts,
cut off like barely covered the butt cheek.
And I was like, this is out already.
It's already out. And I'm just standing here in a
thrift store with this dear friend I'm hooking up with and
thrifting with. And I'm I'm sorry that I about

(31:22):
the rest of the story and peopleare going to whatever.
This is what I had to do. So I went and I found a piece of
I found a brown dress at the thrift store.
Genius. And I took the brown dress into
the stall and cleaned myself up and I hung it back on the rack.

(31:47):
I, I think that is where I went wrong.
I think I should have, I think Ishould have thrown it away.
I think I should have thrown it away, but I didn't know how to
throw it away. There wasn't a trash can.
I would have had to buy it. And so I would have had to take
a poop cover dress up to the cash register.
Like there was no time. Are you saying that there was no
time and so you did this all very?
Quickly. I'm just trying to like build

(32:09):
more of a case for why you would.
Tell me what else? Like I know I know the re
racking of it was a bad part butI've never heard anyone offer a
solution of what I should have done otherwise.
Made a cashier, the cashier handles that item and then
they're standing standing there handling.
No, but you're a. Giant, you're assuming put it in
a corner. I just put it in a corner.
Was like no one will ever find that.

(32:29):
You're assuming that no matter what, you had to take the brown
dress and cover it in your poop.It wasn't covered, it was just a
little. Clean up, but yes.
I did. I did have to.
I was basically standing with basically no clothes on.
I was wearing a thong and booty booty like Daisy Duke cut off

(32:50):
Jean shorts. It was already, it was already
in the public. It was already into the public.
There was no there was no clothing containing it.
Right, yes. Then that's what I'm saying is
when I say you had to act quickly because basically like
from that point you saw a brown dress, you took it.
It was survival mode. Yeah, Yeah.
Yes. It was like, it's like if I came
right now and just pooped on your bare knee, like you'd have

(33:12):
to do something pretty quickly about.
My knee. Have to do something.
It's already here among us. There's no clothing between it
it and us. Yes, I understand.
I understand. I think given that, I don't know
what else you would have done. Like in an ideal situation, I
would have like probably looked over at the cashier and seen if
it was a woman. And if it was a woman, I

(33:34):
probably would have gone and been like, hey.
It's not a nurse. No, this is not a nurse.
They are not required to help mewith the poop.
They're not required, they're just.
Trying to hide it but I think no, I don't think.
That's these stories and that's why I do What are they going to?
Do though, what are they going to do?
She was going to get a brown dress.
She could have given you the brown dress and then she could
have just like thrown it away inthe back rather than you

(33:56):
hanging. You're telling me stop, Stop it,
stop it, stop. She might have got a towel wise
and. Advice stop giving me wise and
advice and look me in the eye and tell me you actually would
have walked up to a stranger in a store where she is on the
clock and being held hostage with you and your shitty leg and
you would have said help me I'm an adult woman.
I pooped my leg. Look at it I.

(34:18):
You. Genuinely would have done that.
Yeah. I don't believe you.
I don't believe you. Because this is my thing.
This is my whole thing is that. There's a clear, but there's a
clear solution. There is like there's clothing
everywhere that would have been.I can just take one.
Well, that is clear to me. Well, yes, I'm resourceful.
And then so to me that's saying like I refuse to clean this up
myself. So I'm going to go make this
adult woman. No, no.

(34:39):
That's. Crazy.
That's not what it is, but me cleaning it up myself is me
ruining something that is also the purview of this adult woman
who works here. Oh, it was $1.99.
OK, OK. I just it was a.
Legit, you're not. You've got to let.
Me say the thing that that is mymotivating factor in all of
this, which is that I have a deep belief that bodily things

(35:02):
like this are just like human and happen to everyone, which is
part of the reason that I'm. Well, it's not a belief, that's
a fact. It's a fact, but because of
that, my belief is that like we should all be more comfortable
talking about it. Which is why I talk about
watching baby tests, why I wouldtalk to my boyfriend about it.
I know we clearly disagree on this, but this is something that

(35:22):
I feel strongly about, which is why I would actually feel OK
assuming it was like I would have had to scope out the
situation. And I'm and I very much get that
you were you had little little to to help you out in that
situation in little time. So like, there's a world in
which I would have grabbed the brown dress too.
But there's also. A world on your leg.

(35:44):
You would have left it on your leg and approached this woman
and said help wipe me. What are you?
Saying, I'm saying, would you, do you have paper towels?
Do you have anything in the backwhere I could go back there and
clean up? That's what I would do.
That's. Not her job.
Crazy. And then she has to watch you,
and then she has to watch you walk around with it on you.
It's on me visible. It's on me.
It's. Visible, yeah, but don't draw

(36:05):
her attention to it. I don't.
Care what she thinks she's she might be able to help me with a
towel or a paper towel. You know, we all have.
Accidents if I if I spill spaghetti sauce down my front at
a restaurant, I don't flag the waiter over to wipe it off me.
I'm I'm gonna, I'm gonna take. Care of myself and you can go to
the bathroom and I'm saying I would ask her, do you have paper

(36:27):
towels? Do you have a bathroom in the
back that I could run to like I I just know that's what I would
do. I just know that's what I would
do. I'm not going to be convinced
otherwise. It doesn't mean you're wrong.
I just know that's what I would do because I really don't have.
You're talking about shame. I really try not to have shame
about this type of stuff becauseI'm like, she's probably done
it. Then why didn't you?

(36:47):
Why don't you just pull your leggings?
Why don't you just pull your leggings down and shit in the
elevator of? Course that's not come on now,
of course that's never going to be the situation, but and I was
about to be home, right. But if there was a person that
might have had a paper towel, I would have tried to get that
paper towel. That's all I'm saying.
Interesting. And then what are you doing with

(37:08):
it after that? You.
So you get the paper towel. You're standing there letting
her watch you wipe yourself, andthen you go.
Hopefully she can let her go back and I can wipe myself down
and then I can come and be. I mean, it sucks that you're
with this guy. I don't know if that's.
You got to be, you got to be careful, you got to be careful
taking any steps at all, becausethat stuff, any, any kind of
like thump of your foot on the ground, it's going to go

(37:29):
splattering. And now she's got to be on her
hands and knees wiping it up. Meanwhile, your hookup is
watching all this while he's just trying to buy a new sweater
vest. Right, I think.
And then I think I would have waved to him.
I would have waved to him from across the way and been like,
I'm sorry, I really have to run,I'll text you later.
And I would have called called an Uber or something or like, I
don't know. I.
Thought you just said call the police.

(37:50):
I would have called the police. I would have run away from him
for sure, but maybe run towards other help.
If it was female help, that's probably what I would have done,
yeah. But if you even if you just even
turn and pivot, he can see it. Yeah, I mean.
It's not contained in any way. So when you use the brown dress
to clean it up, was it all gone?Yes, it was just like a

(38:17):
smattering. It wasn't.
It wasn't a ton, but that's exactly.
What I'm saying So then if I usea paper towel, the same effect
would have been achieved, right?OK.
That's what I'm saying. We're we're living in this same
world where it's that same amount of poop.
While you're there with a man you're hooking up with, you
would have let it sit on your leg for an extra minute or two

(38:39):
while this cashier takes the time to process what the fuck
you're telling her. Then go and find a paper towel,
then wipe yourself down. I think the I think this is the
survivor's instinct. That we talked about it last
week. I know you don't.
You don't have a will to surviveand it's if you shit yourself in
public and there's no nothing between it and the rest of the

(39:01):
world, you take care of that as quickly as possible is what I
believe. That's my belief.
I understand that, and maybe I don't have the will to survive,
but what I do have is the ability to ask for help, which I
think takes you far. Oh God, I had to wipe my
brother's ass as a child. Like when he was a baby or like

(39:22):
a specific. Insult like what do you Oh, just
high school. I'm just kidding.
I'm just kidding. No, we went to like a Montessori
preschool. We were two years apart and I'm
so maybe I was like 4 and he wastwo and we were, they had
several ages at the Montessori school.
And the Montessori thing, I think This is why it was
happening because Montessori wasall like, do it yourself.

(39:43):
And we'd like make our own lunches and like build our own
fucking blocks or whatever. And then, but he was like still
really young and he needed help wiping, but he didn't want one
of the teachers to do it. So I was like in there.
I was like, I'm still a baby too.
I'm, I'm just a baby wiping thisbaby's ass.
And he wouldn't let anyone else do.
Do it. I remember being so annoyed and

(40:04):
being like I I'm still eating sauce instead of food.
Like please, I don't want to do.That this is above my pay grade,
yeah. Cute.
But yeah, anyway, I was just thinking about wiping other
people and when that needs to stop.
And I do think it needs to stop,at least by your 20s.
Oh yeah. I don't know that I've ever

(40:26):
wiped other people. And I, I'm comfortable leaving
it there, you know, other peoplewiping me, different story.
Different story. Let's stop talking about poop,
shall we? Well, we've gone this far.
I know it's we're like, we're like far into the episode.
We've lost everyone, everyone who doesn't want to be here.

(40:46):
Everyone left. Everyone left, but now we might
say something insightful and then the people who left
wouldn't even know, and that's crazy.
So yeah, so what's the point? Yeah, maybe so.
So we shouldn't. So the point is, we shouldn't.
Yeah, if you spend an entire episode talking about shit and
then you answer one what to do? Well, does a tree make a sound
in the forest? Right.
Does anyone even care? It's not Let me look at my other

(41:07):
stupid notes. The what to do can be.
Let's do what to do. Let's do, Let's do what to do.
Let's do what to do. OK, there.
This one might be kind of, it's not relevant.
Don't worry, listeners, we're not going to talk about
bathrooms anymore. But it is still kind of
everyone's. That's all we do left.
Nobody's even. Interestingly relevant, that's
just us now. Support for Not for Everyone

(41:34):
comes from better help. If you love listening to Not For
Everyone, then you're going to love therapy even more.
And what's great about therapy is it's just incredibly intimate
and personalized to you. This week in therapy, I was
talking about my recent engagement, Justin, and this
feeling that I had like, oh, I don't even know if I should be

(41:55):
asking people to celebrate this with me because people are
probably busy and they might notcare.
And why? Why would they care?
And they probably don't want to celebrate with me.
And we talked it out and really pinpointed this feeling I have
that even the people I love don't want to celebrate or
really hear about my feelings. And that's not true.

(42:16):
But it's this deep feeling that I have that people are too busy
that they're not interested. And that feeling actually has a
self fulfilling aspect to it where it keeps people out of
distance and it keeps people away.
This is we're just one of the many revelations that it really
takes one-on-one therapy to uncover these little ways where

(42:39):
you're sabotaging yourself, keeping yourself from being
happier or more fulfilled or more connected.
Which is why I will love and swear by therapy until the day I
die. I believe that therapy should be
accessible to any person who wants it and with better help.
There are over 30,000 therapistsavailable online.

(43:00):
It's the world's largest online therapy platform, having served
over 5 million people globally. It's convenient and it works
with your schedule. You can join a session at the
click of a button and help fit therapy into your busy life.
Plus, you can switch therapists at any time for no additional
cost. Your well-being is worth it.
Visit betterhelp.com/not for Everyone that's all letters all

(43:23):
spelled out today and you can get 10% off your first month.
That's better Help help.com/not for Everyone all spelled out.
You're worth it. All right, this listener wrote

(43:49):
in and asked us. Hi Jess and Caroline, I have a
question about randomly running into friends slash neighbors
slash acquaintances. How the heck do you stay present
and have a meaningful conversation while not dragging
out the interaction too long? I'm always so anxious about
taking up too much of their timethat I end up seeming like I'm
the one in a rush to get going. I'd love your advice because I

(44:10):
honestly feel like this one hangup is really costing me
meaningful connections with coolpeople.
Sincerely, a socially anxious diva.
Cute. That is a great question and I
100% don't have an answer to it except I'm usually wrapping.
I'm I'm always wrapping it up because I just feel awkward
talking for a short amount of time.
As soon as I know we have to go.I don't like talking anymore,

(44:35):
which is why I hate commuting home with someone.
Whether it's like you had a dinner and then you're walking
home together, had a dinner, commuting home on the train
together, getting driven, dropped out.
It's like, I know I have to likestay, like pay attention to like
I have to get off at some point and walk away.
And so we have to wrap, wrap this up.
There's like a countdown And so I can't be present.

(44:56):
I I fully don't know how to do this.
Yeah, I mean, I agree. The reason I liked the what to
do is because I relate to it a lot, but I don't, it's not that
I'm good at it. I feel like I almost feel like
there's a reframe that needs to happen of like, why do you think
that these interactions should be lasting longer?
Maybe you are actually being considerate.

(45:17):
Maybe we're all being pretty considerate when we realize that
these interactions can and should be on the shorter end,
you know? Like, is there really anything
wrong with that? She's saying that she feels like
she's missing out on meaningful connections, but I don't know
that you were gonna have a meaningful connection with
someone that you just randomly ran into.

(45:39):
Maybe it's a person that you could connect to?
Someone, you know, Yeah, well, somebody that shared that.
Moment I think you can have a. You can have a meaningful little
touch point. OK, so what's that look like?
Dude, I don't fucking know. I will say one thing that's
helping been helping me recently, and maybe this sounds
obvious, but I'm definitely someone who gets socially

(46:02):
drained really easily. And a huge, huge part of that is
my fault because I think I have to deliver so much expression
and so much banter and so much commentary to a given
conversation. And I've had several moments
recently being at on you know, like a dinner party or so with

(46:25):
like 6 people last night. And I'm looking around the room
of like it's six or eight peoplecoming in and out of various
conversations walking around this home.
And like when someones talking I'm barely even clocking what
the other people are doing. You know, it doesn't matter.
They can be completely expressionless, they can be
completely blank, they can be dead eyed, they can be zoning

(46:48):
out, they can be nodding, they can be commenting, they can be
standing in a fucking corner. It doesn't matter.
But when I'm listening to someone talk, I have this idea
that I need to be like chiming in with a comment or yesing them
or Yang them or like my expression active listening.
No one gives a fuck. No one gives a fuck.

(47:08):
And it's just really draining tome.
And I've had these moments recently of just being like, you
don't have to like really give anything, just fucking listen.
If you start with just actually listening, which is so hard to
do, I think that takes care of most of the conversation.
Because if you are actually listening, even if it's a 5

(47:30):
minute exchange or a three hour dinner, if you are actually just
listening and putting no pressure on yourself to say
something or to add or to demonstrate your listening, then
you're actually listening and something's going to come up.
If it's something you connect with, something's going to come
up that you naturally want to say.
And if there's if nothing comes up that you want to say, that's

(47:52):
fucking on them. Like they're not interesting in
this moment and that's OK. But that's literally something
I've been like working on recently to preserve my social
battery. When I, I was like at this
dinner party and I felt my battery running low and I was
like, why are you raising your eyebrows to like demonstrate
interest? Like, why are you like trying to
active listen with your entire face?

(48:13):
Just stand here like a person, like everybody else's and listen
or tune out or whatever. Just be here.
You're allowed to just be here. And I don't know, that kind of
helps me. Yeah, it's funny, I feel like
I've been working on the same thing, but almost from a
slightly different entry point. Because you were saying that you
realize that you're not paying attention to what everybody else

(48:35):
is doing, so they're not paying attention to you.
Yeah, like I'm like, oh, I'm, I'm, they're going to, it's
going to be rude of me if I don't raise my eyebrows and
delight as much, you know? But what I feel like I've been
doing more is actually paying more attention to how other
people show up in these situations.

(48:56):
Like there's six people, one person is telling a story and
I'm one of the five people listening to the story.
Because I have noted about myself that I do this like
overly performative active listening.
Like I feel like I need to be init with them thing and it drains
me. I've now been paying attention

(49:17):
to how everyone else shows up like consciously and you know,
and looking around and being like, oh, everybody else is just
kind of standing here and looking at them.
And so I'm still not listening to the person because I'm
looking at everybody else. But it's like part of my
learning, I think to get to the end point that you're talking

(49:38):
about where I'm like, huh, OK, Iguess I could just be looking at
them too. And like whatever comes outcomes
out or doesn't, it doesn't matter.
I've been noticing how other people show up in those
situations and realizing that they don't seem to be like
overly engaged and overly actively listening and like
nobody's bothered by that and nobody cares, so why can't I do

(49:59):
that too? So I'm trying to like mimic that
more. I feel like those people it, you
know, who knows what's going on privately in in their minds
because everyone has their different weird experience.
But a lot of the time it can communicate this kind of like
grounded ease. And it sets the tone of like,
we're just being grounded here and we're just talking.

(50:21):
We're just listening. And like, it can be, you know,
when you start doing performative shit, people often
match your performative shit. It's annoying.
Yeah, that's great. And it's when I say annoying,
I'm talking about me. I am annoying to me.
Yeah, no, I understand. Yeah.
I mean, the best way to be present in that moment is I
think the answer to the the listener's question is not like

(50:42):
how do I come up with the best thing to say?
Really the answer to how do I come up with the best thing to
say is just really, really listen.
And something, something's goingto come up that you actually
mean and is connective. And if it doesn't sounds like
the other person was talking thewhole time and maybe they didn't
say anything inspiring and then you move on.
So there wasn't going to be anything that day, you know what
I mean? Yeah.
And that actually brings up something else that this made me

(51:03):
think of, because I think I've talked about this before, but I
had this one job, the job that moved me out to Chicago.
So it was like 5-6 years ago andit was very big on like
networking and sales. And like there were a lot of
those types of competencies thatI had to develop in this job.
And so the salesperson at this company would spend a lot of

(51:27):
time mentoring the younger like generation of workers there on
like, how do you network and howdo you have conversations that
ultimately result in like a saleof your business, but maybe
don't start that way. And so he did a lot of practice
with us. We had to do a lot of like a

(51:47):
role play with him to practice just talking to strangers or
talking to loose connections. And one of the things that I
think about all the time that hetaught us during that was like,
people feel that a conversation went well if they did a lot of
talking. So if you actually listen more
and let it be them telling theirstory or them like going through

(52:10):
whatever it was that they wantedto get out, you're doing the
same thing that you're trying toachieve by active listening.
Like ultimately your goal is that you are kind of a people
pleaser like me, and you want tomake sure that this person knows
that you're interested and engaged and you like them and
you're, you're part of it. And there's honestly no better

(52:32):
way to have them know that than to let them talk.
And people, a lot of people likethat.
So that's something that's freedme up from having to do so much
of the performance because I'm like, oh, this conversation is
probably going well to them because they're talking a lot.
Let me just let them do that. And at the end of the day, it
still rests on the same, on thisassumption that like I still

(52:53):
care about them perceiving the conversation as going well.
It still rests on me being a people pleaser and me wanting
them to leave this conversation,like having enjoyed it with me.
But at least what it does is frees me up of like the draining
stuff that I used to do more of and I can feel good about.

(53:14):
I just listen to this person andlet them talk.
And they probably liked that. And then I was more present.
And then, yeah, it doesn't mean don't respond.
If you have something to respondwith, of course do that.
But. It's funny.
But just people like to talk in these settings a lot of the
times and so let them. I guess the the the slight

(53:34):
difference is that one is like the like a sales.
Right. Dynamic is less mutual than what
this connective thing they want with a friend.
But I still think it's great advice.
Yeah, if you're just like in your head, as a lot of us are
about like, how do I have this connective thing?

(53:56):
A lot of the framing of these sales conversations too was like
you're not actually trying to make a sale in that moment.
You're trying to connect with a person.
And then if they, if you've connected, they'll remember you
and they'll follow up or you're building trust.
Like a lot of it is more relational than it is about than
it is transactional. So that's why I translated it

(54:18):
from the like business and salessetting into my personal life.
Because to be good at the sales thing, you have to be good at
making genuine. Connections.
Yeah, So anyway, maybe that helps.
But I still think, like, it is funny when you run into somebody
on the street that you weren't expecting to run into and you're

(54:39):
just like, what do I make of this moment?
You know what do I? Do in these 45.
Seconds. I have two minutes with this
person. It's an elevator pitch.
Those run insurance should be illegal.
I think they're stressful to everyone.
Yeah, but. Which is the reason that I think
it's OK to just like make it fast.
I think the everybody appreciates it being fast.
And then sometimes what you could do is you could send them

(55:01):
a text after. If it's somebody that you feel
like you do want to see more, you have potential with or
something, you can use it as an N and text them and be like,
hey, it was so funny to run intoyou at the farmers market.
Like if if you want to go together next week, let's do
that or something, you know, like.
That's a good idea 'cause then you can just like know, you can

(55:23):
always have that as a rule for yourself.
If you're always like disappointed with how you, what
you make of those, you know, short little passerby moments.
You can just be like, I'm not someone who's going to know what
to say in those moments, but I am someone who's going to smile,
say hi, and then I'm going to use it to piggyback off of and
send them a text. And I'm going to send them a
text and then we're going to hang out.

(55:44):
Because if it's someone who wants to hang out with you, then
like, it doesn't matter which way it comes.
You know, you can you can send it in a text after.
Yeah. I think that's a good idea.
I like it. OK.
OK. I like it.
I like it. What do you?
What's on your radar? This is a random one.
Somebody messaged us, someone damned us and said hi lovely
ladies. I just wanted to let you know

(56:07):
that I saw 4 barn owls in one day the other day and it sounds
like these were all separate because she writes.
By the second one I was thinkingof you guys.
By the third one I had called myfriend who also listens to the
podcast. By the 4th 1 I straight up lost
my shit. Am I being followed by the owls?

(56:29):
Please send all your thoughts and prayers to me over in
Yorkshire, England. Wait where is this fucking?
Where is the context? I actually do need this
explained. Was there more context?
What do you mean? No, that's it.
Wait, do you not know what they're referring to?
Four. Well, I just mean why did you
were was? She.

(56:49):
Wearing a metropolitan center, seeing 4 individual farmhouse.
Is she like in a barn like area?We do get a lot of messages
about people seeing owls, which I love that that's become like a
thing for us. And I wish that the owl
conversation had happened a little bit sooner than it did,
so that we could have made the Kook University sweatshirt that

(57:10):
you're wearing have like an owl in the middle of the emblem or
something. Like that's our school mascot.
Well, we can do it for our next round of of merch, which will be
on the front. The sweatshirt is an owl on the
back. It says wrap this around you
when you shake your pants in public.
That's what these sweatshirts are for.

(57:31):
How many owls does it take untilyou shit your pants?
And I don't have any more DMS, but I do have it's, it's kind of
a complaint. I think it's more revelation or
a discovery, maybe like an invention.
Like a scientific discovery. Scientific.

(57:51):
Yeah. So I have this invention of a
thought recently, which is that I'm.
I don't think it's. I think it's really, I'm, I'm
not hating on avocado toast. Like I like it just as much as
every other basic white woman does on so.
I'm not going to say I'm like better than that, but I do

(58:12):
officially hate ordering it froma restaurant.
I think it's disappointing everytime and I think I know why.
OK, tell me. Isn't it bad every time?
Am I wrong about this? I so far so good.
I agree with you. I love avocado toast as much as
the next basic Lebanese woman, but.

(58:33):
Yes. I I exclusively make it at home
now. Yes, I hate I I love avocado
toast. I love overpaying.
For a fucking for anything. Egg and a piece of bread at
brunch. I'll do it and I'm but they
usually bulk make the like avocado mash in a lot of

(58:56):
restaurants. And then even if it's not for
guacamole, they usually like make it in bulk because it takes
too much time to like grind it all up.
And they'll have it in like a container.
And then in order to make it notgo brown, they cover it in
fucking lemon juice. And so that's why when you get
avocado toast in a restaurant, unless they have like freshly
mashed the avocados, which they normally haven't, it's like

(59:18):
wetter. It's like the wettest avocado.
And it's fucking lemony. And I'm like, yeah, this is,
this makes it taste different. It didn't go brown, but it also
makes it taste different. Like, I couldn't just serve you
a bowl of Cheerios and squeeze alemon over it and be like, oh,
it's it's pretty much the same. No, it's like significantly

(59:40):
changed. Pay more for this.
Actually pay more for this. Pay more for it.
And it's, it's always wet. It's always like leaking, you
know, the avocado, it's too wet and it's lemony.
And I'm like, why? Where'd you even get these
avocados? OK, that's a very good
observation because I do make myavocado toast at home with a
squeeze of lemon over it usually.
But that is. Not drenching.

(01:00:02):
Yeah, a very delicate amount compared to what they're
probably doing. You're right.
And it is also, yeah, it's important to me that my avocado
toast. It.
Still has like a chunkiness to the avocado.
I don't want it like blended, I want it like mashed.
I hate that. Onto that, Yeah, they've made it
like a baby food I hate. That.

(01:00:23):
Wet citrusy avocado mishmash. I I want to say I get it 10
times out of 10 when I go to if I ordered that at a restaurant
and it's taken me years foolishly ordering wet citrus.
Right. Mishmash.
Yeah, I've stopped. I've stopped because I eat it.
I eat it at home like 3 * a week.

(01:00:44):
I make avocado toast for myself.So I've stopped ordering it just
because when I go out I'm like, OK, I don't want the same thing.
I eat three times a week at home.
But it's also true that it's notas good and I have not
pinpointed why. So I thank you for that.
I mean, this opens up a larger topic that I'm passionate about,

(01:01:04):
which. Is I knew you had things to say.
Yeah, well, you know, I love avocados and I love guacamole.
I love Mexican food. It is I.
Did not know that you loved avocados?
I love them. Oh, I just felt like you could
look at me and you. Know you could tell avocados.
I did not know that this is a random thing to tell me.
I know about. I think I thought it might have

(01:01:24):
come up, but that's coming up now and this is the perfect
timing for it. I love avocados, I love avocado
toast. I love I love Mexican food with
guacamole but I feel passionately that avocados need
to be chunky in any place that they are.
Like I really don't like pre made guacamole.

(01:01:48):
Like there's that Holy guacamolebrand that just is little
containers of guacamole that youcan buy like a pack of.
And I get that it makes it's like an easy snack.
You can just like dip stuff in it right away.
It's. Not great, though.
It's not great. And the reason it's not great,
it's like it actually tastes fine, but it's way too blended.

(01:02:10):
It's a texture. It's a texture, and I bet they
put some lemon on it too. I think, now that I think about
it, it's always a little more translucent.
Than my avocado to preserve it. Yes, it's very important to me
that people when you, when you make your guac or when you make
your avocado toast, chop up the avocado into large chunks and
then smash some of it, but not all of it, don't fully mash it.

(01:02:35):
Wag your little finger, but not.Just try it if you have been, I
mean, dare I say if you've been putting your avocados in a
blender or something, then like stop listening to this podcast.
But. Yeah, that is interesting.
If if you've been over mashing it, I urge you to try what I'm
saying next time and you're going to see how the experience
is better and that's what I haveto say about that.

(01:02:57):
That's strange that I know exactly that little guacamole
package you're describing and itreally grosses me out.
And it always has like a film onit or like a like a, like a, a
little bit of like a, a snail. Like they packaged it and then
like a snail went over the top of it a little bit Snail.
Musin like we use on our faces. That little, a little snail

(01:03:17):
musin on the top, it's always a little yeah.
That translucence like that, some whatever kind of acid they
put on to preserve it, probably.Let's just all remind ourselves
that when you cut open a fresh avocado, it is fully opaque.
You cannot. No light comes through that
thing. If you ever catch a glimpse of
avocado, that's a little bit of light is coming through it or

(01:03:38):
reflecting off of it. Something has gone very.
Wrong up to the sun. For God's sake, hold it up to
the sun. What are you doing?
Why are you not holding all of your avocados up to the sun the
way that you go into a grocery store?
Is this a thing or is this a my mom thing?
Or is it a Lebanese mom thing? My mom would go to the grocery
store and to choose the right like watermelon or cantaloupe or

(01:04:01):
any type of melon she would likehold it up to her ear and hit it
to like hear the hollowness of it or something.
Is that a real thing? I didn't, I didn't, I didn't do
that. I mean, I would sniff it.
You can smell. Can you really you?
Can, like, smell them? Yeah, You can smell certain
fruits. You can like, I think certain
melons you can smell when they're ripe.
I don't know about watermelon. Maybe you'd have to listen.

(01:04:25):
You listen to the the sounds of a watermelon.
Yeah, that's what she does. It's like a seashell type of
vibe. So in the same way that my mom
does that hold an avocado up to the sun, that's there's checks
you have to do before you eat fruits and vegetables, mostly
fruits. Avocados are fruits.
Yeah. This has been a great.

(01:04:46):
That was a cute little aside youdidn't do yourself fix.
Yeah, yeah. OK, should we look at our Google
search histories? In closing, let's see.
Because that's what kind of episode this.
Is it? Is it feels like it.
Is oh here's one on here Why does Selena talk different?

(01:05:07):
Is a recent certified? Because I was trying to figure
out Selena Gomez, like she has avery different way of talking
now, which I'm guessing is related to her lupus.
It's kind of, but I don't reallyknow what I don't know, know
that much about lupus. So well, it's kind of more like
when I'm, it actually reminds memore of someone with Parkinson's

(01:05:31):
where it's very little, it's very flat, there's very little
movement and it's not very expressive.
And it, it is very, I was like, is it her lupus or is it her
Botox? I genuinely didn't know.
Did you find out? Yeah, she she definitely talks.
Like her face doesn't really move.
I know exactly what you're talking about.

(01:05:52):
She wasn't always I. Actually didn't hear.
I didn't see a clear distinctionon it, but I'm guessing it's
related to something medical. I think it is.
I feel like she's. I thought she had spoken about
that at some point and it was something, no?
She definitely has it. Yeah, it's definitely spoken
about her unknown thing, her voice, her voice.

(01:06:12):
And like the way she speaks now,I feel like she's addressed
that. Maybe I made that.
Maybe. I just assumed that's why I
thought I could Google it and find an answer, but it was kind
of just suppositions. Oh interesting, it does seem
medical but. Seems medical.
Yeah, OK. OK, interesting.

(01:06:33):
Oh. I've been looking for a a good
bread box. I've been in the market for a
bread box. Oh, why is a bread box
something? Should I be Should do I is it?
I don't know, is it more than just a bathroom stall for bread?
I think. That's what it is, but I think
we've learned that I really value a stall.

(01:06:54):
Apparently it's supposed to likeelongate the life of the bread.
Like it won't go stale as fast and it won't go moldy.
As fast because there's not as much air going, but it's like
you already have it covered, butyou already have it covered.
There's light. Like, yeah, like if it's just
sitting on your counter, then it's being exposed to light and
other elements maybe. Dog, I put my loaf of bread,

(01:07:18):
even a fresh loaf, I put it in the fridge and it lasts like a
month. I do that too.
I usually leave it out for the first couple of days if it's
like a nice loaf from a bakery and I'm like I want the
freshness. But then probably after day
three I put it in the fridge. But Ryan is not a bread in
fridge guy. Yeah, some people are really

(01:07:38):
offended by it, but I'm like, you know what?
I'm toasting it every time anyway.
Exactly, I feel the same. But anyway, so the bread box is
me trying to find compromise in my relationship basically.
Oh, OK, OK, OK. We'll see.
I'll keep those. Updated if it's interesting.
It's not. It's not what else we got.

(01:08:07):
Who'd you find? OK, so Speaking of compromise in
my relationship, yesterday Ryan and I built patio furniture and
this is like our probably 6th building project together and I
think we have made huge strides in how we work together on
building furniture. Awesome.

(01:08:29):
So it was successful. I'm excited about the patio
furniture. While we were doing it, I
realized that I'm just such a like type A like Dom in my.
You just realized. In my life, no, I know that.
Just realized. That I know that in every area

(01:08:50):
but it I always question it in my relationship.
I'm like should I stop? Like is this should I just stop?
Should I be more in my like feminine energy or something?
Well, describe. I'll tell you.
I'll answer the question. We're building the patio
furniture and we're both kind ofwanting to take the lead and it
just feels after many projects of building stuff together that

(01:09:15):
we should really have one persontake the lead each time.
We could even maybe alternate, but like there needs to be a
leader and there needs to be a follower.
If we're both trying to take thelead, then we're gonna butt
heads because. We're then no one then no one's
taking the follow, so by definition nothing is being led.
And you know the instructions are.
Already, you know, every companyhas two CEO's.

(01:09:36):
Yeah, exactly what we do, what we do, but we have different
like things that we focus on fora reason.
So yes, it should apply to otherparts of life.
So I just realized at some pointwhile building the patio
furniture, like I'm doing the thing where I'm trying to take
the lead, but Ryan's also tryingto take the lead.
I should just let him have the lead.
And I like kind of backed off. And then we actually were able

(01:09:59):
to get through it much easier than we have other things.
And then at the end I made a joke of like, I'm the, you know,
you're the Bron and I'm the boobs or something, or you're
the brains and I'm the boobs, whatever.
And then I was like, I'm the tits and you're the and I was
like, what's AT word? That's like brain.

(01:10:21):
And then I thought of thalamus, which is a part of the brain.
OK, so then I decided that Ryan's nickname for the day was
going to be Thalamus, and I keptcalling him Thal.
I kept being like, yeah, Thal like great job on the patio
furniture Like hey Thal, what are we going to eat for lunch?
And I just. So you're really going to make
him pay for? This I really drove it into the

(01:10:43):
ground. Yeah.
Anyway, we. Tried to punish him for this.
One of my Google searches was thalamus just to make sure that
I was right, that that is brain related.
So that's why I brought this up.But I do think it's an
interesting topic about like, you know, two people trying to
take the lead or like the feminine and masculine in
relationships. I don't know I'm.

(01:11:05):
Too. Yeah.
Have you guys ever said out loudto each other and acknowledged
that it gets tense and weird andnon functional when you're both
trying to like? Has this been openly
acknowledged? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah. And and you can't.
And then what was the? But it, it didn't sound like
anything came from it. You were still left in a
position where you had to like make a call privately on your

(01:11:26):
own about how you guys were going to get through this next
one. We've never had the moment of
like, hey, when we approach projects like this, we should
decide who's leading and who's following.
We've not been that explicit, but we have talked about how
when we do projects like this, we butt heads.
And it is because we're both trying to take the lead.

(01:11:47):
We just like never made that next logical step of like, so
let's get ahead of that and likeassign it almost because that
also feels like, I don't know, whatever.
It's just not something that ever occurred to us as like,
something that needed to happen until, yeah, we were in it
yesterday. And I just caught myself doing
the thing where I was trying to take the lead when it was

(01:12:09):
already like, the vibe was that he was going to take the lead
because he was like reading the instructions and getting
everything out. And I was there to help.
But then my tendency is just to like, oh, now that I'm in this,
I actually know better or I actually like wanna take more

(01:12:33):
initiative or whatever. And so I just caught myself
doing it basically. And rather than saying out loud
and making it a whole conversation of like, this is
the we're doing this thing againand I'm doing this and whatever,
I didn't want to have a whole conversation about it.
Yeah, I don't think you have to have a conversation there.
I was just wondering if you guyshad ever named it together.

(01:12:55):
So you're saying you haven't quite in that?
Way like half named it, I guess.Yeah, we've like half named it
and. Then I so was he doing it?
And then it did improve the situation.
And yeah, I guess the reason I emphasized the part about not
wanting to have a conversation about it is because I have a
tendency to want to have a conversation about everything,
which is why we have half named this before.

(01:13:16):
Like, it's a good thing that we talk about a lot of things and a
lot of the stuff that we like run into with each other and
struggle with. But it's also there comes a
point when it's like, like, it'sso tiring to talk about.
Yeah, if you've if you've tired yourself out.
Yeah, so that's why I was like consciously, like, if I've
noticed what's going on here andI can control it on my own

(01:13:37):
without raising a stink, then just do it, dog.
And I did it and it worked. So I'm going to try to do that
more. I mean, it sounds to me like
what I'm picturing is that this is an ego moment for both of you
and like the relatable I, I think to me what I think about
is like, OK, why? Obviously I know I could just

(01:14:00):
let him take the lead. And there's probably plenty of
moments where you do let him take the lead or do let someone
else take the lead. And it's no blow to your ego,
but it sounds to me like this isa moment where like it will it
like it left you a little. There was a go tiny seed of
resentment that you wanted to jab him with after that.
But being like, I guess I'm justthe boobs and you're just the

(01:14:21):
brain and you're hey, thalamus like there.
That sounds to me like a little bit of like my ego was a little
hurt by there. Like there's something I don't
know in those moments. Sometimes it's like I have to
think about like, why, you know,I don't know what's a better
example, but like if if you and I were hanging out and we both
wanted to make avocado toast andI'm like, I can make my own

(01:14:44):
avocado toast. And then you were like, I'm
going to make it. This is so good.
It wouldn't hurt my ego. But there's other moments that
like things come up at the podcast sometimes where if I, if
you don't let me do something, it hurts my feelings because
it's more personal. It's more part of my identity.
It's more part an ego blow. Or it's important to me that you

(01:15:06):
see a certain quality of me. Whereas with avocado toast, I
don't really care. I don't feel like it reflects on
me. It doesn't.
It doesn't make a statement about me.
You know, I don't think. And I don't think that you're,
you know, it's not something important that I need you to see
about me. But I feel like in those moments
where I've experienced it with Justin and I'm like, so step

(01:15:27):
one, I do think it's nice that you were able to like, just like
volunteer to be the one to put your ego aside.
And you know, hopefully Ryan does that too in moments.
But like, but also knowing that,like, there, there is something
about this moment. There's a reason why I want this

(01:15:47):
person to acknowledge that I could lead this.
Well. I feel like those moments come
up all the time in, in relationships, you know, even
with so much mutual respect and love, I have those moments where
I'm like, I would for some reason it bothers me that like I
need to be seen in this way on this thing.
And Justin and I had a lot of conversations pulling those

(01:16:11):
apart where I was, it was like earlier on in our relationship
and I'm, I've, I had this feeling where he would like, I
felt like he was not listening to me when I would tell certain
stories. And then I, and it, it really

(01:16:32):
got to me in this way. And I like made it mean all
these things in my head about like, you don't think I know
things and you don't think I have knowledge and you don't
think my experience is real. And like he was like, whoa,
whoa, whoa. Where are you getting all this?
And like, I don't know it just like I had this seat of
resentment because I thought it meant something.
I thought that his listening, not listening in this moments
meant something about how he viewed me or something.

(01:16:55):
And it took several conversations of detangling with
specific, we had to go through specific conversations in a way
that almost looked petty, but wehad huge discoveries going
through it where he was like, oh, I heard you shutting down at
this point, which is why I changed the conversation.
That wasn't me not listening to you.
That's was, I thought you were shutting down and it kind of

(01:17:18):
hurt my feelings. So I was trying to change the
topic, blah, blah, blah. And I don't know, we had to, I
felt like it was helpful for us.If this relates, I don't know if
it sounds like it relates, but just being like I have a bit of
ego in this moment and it and when I talk about it, it sounds
petty, but like if there's probably something in there that
matters to both of you, you knowwhat I mean?

(01:17:39):
Yeah, I totally understand what you mean.
I think we have done those typesof dissections with certain
things. But I think this, I think with
living together, like there's more, there's more of this stuff
that comes up that. And you don't want to pick at
all of it. And you don't want to pick at
all of it. Yeah.

(01:17:59):
And I think with this one specifically, as we talk about
it, I'm realizing that it goes back to something we've talked
about before, which is like my, the difficulty I've had with
just like allowing myself to depend on someone and need
someone because I was so independent and I lived on my

(01:18:22):
own and I built all my own furniture and I did all my own
tasks and chores. And I love that Ryan takes the
lead on so much of that stuff inour house.
Like I appreciate it. I don't really like doing that
stuff. So it's not like I want to be
doing it necessarily, but it's almost like I want him to know
that I could. And that is an ego thing of

(01:18:45):
like, I don't, I don't want to lose the fact that I could if I
had to, or like I did do this before, like I'm capable.
I can take care of myself. You're protecting that
vulnerability of just letting yourself be taken care of fully,
yeah. Yeah, I think that might be it.
But I think it was a good momentfor me to be like, back off and

(01:19:08):
let him do it. And he did.
And it worked out better. And it's kind of like, what do I
want to choose in that situation?
Do I want to choose my ego or doI want to choose having an
easier, smoother time building the patio furniture together
where we don't bicker and we getit done and we move on.
Like that is my priority in the moment over my ego.

(01:19:28):
But that the habit of like your ego coming up and having to like
actively check it is the learning and like the newer
thing. So.
Totally. Yeah, I think you're right to
call that out, though I hadn't really.
Thought well, I just mean I justmean like I'm in those little
moments of ego and by ego I don't mean like being an

(01:19:51):
egomaniac. I just mean like we all have
ideas about who we are and how we want our loved ones to see
us. That's what I mean by ego and
ideas we hold about ourselves orideas we hold about how other
people see us blah, blah blah. And I'm.
I agree that it sounds like you did like a big thing to be like.

(01:20:12):
I'm just going to put that asidefor a moment.
And I think that's something that like we all have to work at
all the time. And also there is something to
be seen in that moment. Like, why?
Why is that a moment for you? And I found that if you can get
really clear on answering why that's a moment for you at all,
then in the future, you might not even have to do the work of

(01:20:34):
checking your ego. You can just be like, I'm no
longer fooled by like the veil of this moment.
I know it's really underneath it.
And maybe you, you could talk about that thing that's
underneath it. And then the whole thing kind of
evaporates and it doesn't take any mechanical energy anymore.
You know what I mean? Yeah, I do know exactly what you
mean. Oh, my gosh.
I'm looking forward to building more patio furniture and just

(01:20:56):
being such a healed person the next time.
Yeah, maybe I realized that my role here is not to be the
leader of the furniture building.
It's to be the personality hire.It's to make everyone laugh,
find the jokes, think of thalamus.
And maybe that helped my ego a little bit to be like, OK, I'll
do something else. I'll be silly.

(01:21:16):
Yeah, you let him do his love language for you.
Well, that's the beauty of that.It's like he knows you can do
it, but he's not doing it 'causeyou're incapable and like
asinine. He's doing it because it's.
AI know right? A gesture.
He does so many things he does so many things we've talked
about this. He does so many things it's so

(01:21:37):
wonderful. It makes my life so much easier
and it's so annoying. Yeah.
It's like. I'm kidding, I don't think it's
actually annoying, but I know what you mean.
It's like emotionally you have to grapple with it though.
I have to grapple with it. I have to grapple with it of
like, is this imbalanced or should I just like fucking show
up for show up one day? Like show up to work.

(01:21:58):
Like he's showing up to work every day.
He's doing the cooking and doingthe dishes and doing the
building of stuff and doing thisand doing that.
Obviously I know there's lots ofthings that I do.
Yeah, yeah. They're just not the like.
It's still. It's still.
Visible task oriented things andI'm still getting used to that
I. Know.
Yeah, I know. I I get you.
I really get you. For your Princess.

(01:22:21):
Yeah. You should be taken care of.
I'm a Princess. Yeah.
You really? Should be taken.
Care of you're a king. I literally like take notes.
I know you're tired when you want to go, but I literally take
notes sometimes when I see womenon the street just in little
moments, just accepting gracefully and graciously
accepting the gestures of kindness.

(01:22:43):
And it's like to receive it withlike the grovelling thanks that
I do sometimes kind of makes it an icky moment.
It's like, just have some fucking chill, Caroline.
And I try to just like mimic these women who just feel
deserving of it or that seems like they feel deserving of it.
And I'm like, I think everyone feels better about that moment
there because there's such a large space between like feeling

(01:23:06):
deserving and taking someone forgranted.
Like there's a lot of wiggle room in there and it feels like
if I just accept the gestures, then I'm I must be spoiled and
taking them for granted. But there's a very long way you
can go before that. And it's like everyone feels
cooler about this if you just act like, yes, Caroline, you are

(01:23:26):
a gracious, amazing, magnificentwoman who deserves these
luxuries and kindnesses. And he gets to feel like he
scored this magnificent woman who deserves all these
kindnesses, not some fucking St.rat who is to, like, drobble on
her knees every time someone does nice for her.
Like he wants to feel like he scored something great, too.

(01:23:49):
That's so true. That's so true.
The way that I like, I'm not even performing because it's
genuine, but like there is a level of performing the
gratitude of like literally every night when he makes
dinner. He makes dinner 6 out of seven
nights a week. And every night I'm like, Oh my

(01:24:10):
God, oh, whoa, like I am. And it's, I mean, I mean, he's a
great cook, obviously. Like, and I do really appreciate
it. And it's something I don't feel
like doing. Like all of these things are
true. I appreciate it more than
anything. And also I need to fucking chill

(01:24:32):
out because that's. Yeah.
It loses its meaning too, probably.
It does the other thing I've noticed is like these things you
and I've had conversations before about these things
because Justin and Ryan both do this where it's like I think
it's a it's a completely fuckingdifferent category.
If I never asked you to do that thing like Ryan would be cooking
you guys meals, as far as I understand every single fucking

(01:24:54):
night and you've never asked himto and he just wants to Same
with Justin. I have never asked him to cook a
meal for me. I am so happy eating Quaker Oats
out of a box. I I actually really like that.
I do not I so if you're, if you're doing a kindness for me
that I didn't ask for, I get to say thank you and like just, you
know, it's so different from calling up Ryan and being like,

(01:25:16):
Hey, can you go pick up my my laundry from the laundromat and
also go take this package to theit's like doing you a favor a
favor. If you're offering this like
freely of your own volition, I'mstill going to thank you.
But like, this is on you dog. Right.
And like that must mean there's some enjoyment in it for you.
You were wanting to do it. You chose to do it.

(01:25:37):
You were going to do it anyway. And if you're doing it
resentfully, that's also your problem.
That's not my fucking problem. True, true.
Yeah, No, you're so right. I mean, it's easier said than
done. I can't fucking do it.
I can't do it. Literally.
Sometimes I'll be, I'll catch myself getting in.
I'm like a rambling of thank yous or I love yous or trying to

(01:25:58):
convince them of my gratitude for their love and accepting me
and La La La La, la. And then I just be like,
Caroline, just shut up. Just be here in silence.
Just be here in silence. And that's so much more
powerful. You're already hugging and
kissing, you idiot. Like, just be here in silence.
You don't have to keep trying toconvince them with the perfect
rhetoric that you love them and are grateful they're hearing

(01:26:20):
you. Just fucking be here and act
chill. Yeah, it's so funny that this is
the same thing as the topic we were just on about.
Building. Furniture.
No, before that being present. Shitting your pants?
Shitting your pants? Yeah, that one.
Being present when somebody. 'S telling a story.

(01:26:40):
All the lessons are the same andand they really come down to
don't blend your avocados, please.
Yeah. Please, people pleasing, I think
it's people pleasing and having to perform something instead of
thinking you got to be there andreceive just as much as we
think. Ryan and Justin deserve to
receive our gratitude and our love.
Why the fuck don't I get to 50% receive?

(01:27:02):
I'm just going to chill and receive a little bit more.
I know sometimes he asks me whatI want for dinner and that's
stressful because I'm like, I can't, but I'm not.
I want, I will literally I'm so it's so much.
I have to figure this out. It cannot be the rest of my
lives, but I, I will literally be like, I just want to be clear

(01:27:24):
that when I ask you, when I say the thing that I'm about to say
of like what I want for dinner, it's because you asked me what I
want for dinner. As in like you were already
planning on making dinner. And so it's not me expecting you
to make this thing for me. Like it's because you asked and
like I would be just as fine to just like make myself eggs and
like OK, whatever, you know, I do this whole sit.

(01:27:46):
Down. Sit down, Jessica.
So you're under the impression that Ryan doesn't understand
what asking a question entails. You think he doesn't know that
he just asked you a fucking question of a of a love gesture
he wants to do for you? I don't know like who I think is
watching me and like tallying how many things that he does for

(01:28:07):
me that I just like accept willingly.
Yeah, but it makes them feel good, these doer men.
It makes them feel like men. And I feel like my part of the
bargain, I'm realizing is to be this woman who so fucking
deserves it. And that makes him feel good.
That makes him feel like more ofa man.

(01:28:28):
I am a woman who is so such a fucking prize I have to tell
myself and I deserve and people are dying to do nice things for
me. I tell myself and he is the one
I let do nice things for me. What a fucking winner, you know
what I mean? I do know what you mean.
It sounds I don't believe it either, but she seems the truth.

(01:28:52):
She seems like really hot, you know?
I can't. It's funny that like I feel like
this lack of confidence and selfworth makes more sense for my
brand. But in a way, I think of you as
having a kind of confidence and self, a sense of your value that
I don't have. And but then it fades away in

(01:29:13):
this area. It fades away in this area.
It fades away in this area for sure.
It's like the one area that thatthat I've always struggled with
that is my romantic relationships.
Whereas in friendships with family, with, you know, just
like myself in the world, I am at work.
I'm very good at the self assured, showing up, confident,

(01:29:34):
showing like I deserve things. Yeah, I just in the romantic
relationship department and I think also like with Ryan, I, I
am the most myself. So I almost think that like,
yeah, I almost think that me showing up in these other parts
of life as that confident, self assured, deserving woman is a

(01:29:57):
little bit of an act. It is like me consciously being
like I need to act like I deserve things if I want to get
anything. Like I got to show up that way.
But with him, I don't have to show up in any way other than me
and me, it actually has a lot ofinsecurities and I don't really
let them come up as much as I can help it in other parts of my

(01:30:21):
life. So they end up coming up with
him because it's like a safe place where I can be insecure.
But then there's there's a way that that backfires, you know,
in a way where it starts to erode what we're talking about.
So it's a fine line. Like it's kind of a beautiful
thing that I am this confident person or I'm perceived that way

(01:30:44):
and I show up that way in a lot of aspects of my life.
And then I allow myself to be just like who I really am, which
is like totally self doubting and insecure sometimes with him.
But it's also like he deserves that girl too.
Like he says that's probably thegirl he thought he was going to
get. Was was that like confident

(01:31:06):
bitch? And I'm both and he accepts it
all you. Know, of course, but yeah.
Totally, it's something I struggle with.
I still think Thalamus is a goodnickname, so I'll probably stick
with that. OK babes, this is it for today.

(01:31:27):
If you're still here by the end of this episode, then thank you
for sticking through that first 40 minutes.
I really needed to get some stuff off my chest.
And you're a real one. You're you're a lover and a
hater all in one. You're a kook.
I was happy to do it. I was going to be happy to go
the whole episode. Just shoot the moon and do that.
I couldn't do it maybe. I was having a great time.

(01:31:47):
That can be our like 500th episode.
It's just potty talk. Shit talk.
If you liked this, don't send this one to a friend.
Just go leave us a review or something.
Do that this time. Justin either.
There's better episodes to send to a friend, I would think, but
you know, you do you, and we'll talk to you next week.
You know what we need requests for is like a big banger

(01:32:09):
episode. We do our 4U episodes which are
usually just like nail in a way,like a deep dive on one topic
that people are really craving. Like we did a 4U breakup
episode, a 4U friendship episode, a 4U career, blah blah
blah. Give us, if you want to DM us,
send some 4U episode requests oflike, I want a deep dive on a

(01:32:31):
subject that you suspect will beof high interest to a lot of
people. Don't send me a for you.
That's about this dynamic with you and your step mom that we
need to send the context for. That's called a what to do?
OK, OK. Learn our episode category.
Thank you, you've been here longenough.

(01:32:52):
Good idea cases. I have one that I don't want to
discuss but it is really relevant to the first half of
this episode, but I want to leave that in our past.
OK. But I will just say that it's

(01:33:13):
average time spent on toilet peryear.

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