June 5, 2025 • 61 mins
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Has your friend said something weird to you, and you don’t know how to deal with it? Same with Jess. This week, Jess and Caroline dive deep into when to expend energy on a friendship, and when to rein it in. They ruminate on when it’s beneficial to communicate, when it’s better to rest, and when it’s best to pause to figure out what you really want to say. It’s tricky!
Plus, there’s a few things we need to go over: AI ads are freaking us out, crystals are all over the place, and people are pronouncing words egregiously. But before you go, we may have just solved sleeping…though it’s also safe to say medical advice can feel fickle. Who knows? I guess some prescriptions are just…not for everyone?
This episode was produced by our prince, Abi Newhouse (@abinewhouse).
Music from #Uppbeat (free for Creators!): https://uppbeat.io/t/simon-folwar/light-up-the-sky License code: 6ZEXBHS1SZJYC707
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Intro Music: “Doja Dance” by PALA
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DISCLAIMER: All opinions are our own. We are not therapists or health professionals, or professional of any kind, really. Please see your own professional or counselor for professional support. Do your research and be safe!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Urgency basically ruins good communication and communication
is also like when are you quiet and when are you with yourself
And also what are you looking for from this conversation?
(00:21):
Welcome back, this is not for everyone.
A podcast hosted by a hater. That's my baby, Caroline, and a
lover. That's me.
I'm a baby too. I'm Jess.
We're babies. We're babies today.
I'm a baby today. I'm ready to talk baby style.
OK, baby style time. Let's get baby style.
Let's get baby style. OK, you know something I was
(00:43):
wondering, I've been wondering for weeks, but I finally wrote
it down to ask you, 'cause I feel like you know is I'm have
you seen? I know you have a bunch of like
Instagram ads or YouTube ads or even regular television ads now
that use AI for voiceover. And it's like intentionally, it
(01:04):
intentionally sounds AI. It's like the AI voice, like the
automatic caption AI voice that I think is used like on TikTok.
Yeah, and it's it, it's so weirdto me 'cause every time I hear
it, like they clearly want it tosound like the TikTok, like text
(01:28):
to voice, AI voice. It's intentional in sounding AI.
And I don't understand like is that effective 'cause it just, I
thought the whole, I guess I thought the whole point of AI
was like, oh, you can make it sound like a person, but this is
like trying to make it sound like Siri or Alexa or.
(01:49):
Yeah, like robotic. Robotic I, this is, I love you.
This is why I love you, because you're a person that thinks
about these things too 'cause I don't, I don't know, I think we
all think about it, 'cause we'reall scrolling.
But I don't know if anybody spends as much time as I do
thinking about this. So you came to the right place.
Thank you, I knew you would know.
(02:10):
I think I have overanalyzed thisand I think that when those
work, it works because the text that the bot is reading is like
maybe a little sassy or self deprecating.
Like it's funny for a robot to roast you a little bit or some
(02:32):
people think it's funny for thisbrand of content.
It's it can be funny. So I think I think it's become
more broad than that. But at least when I've seen this
work well is when the bot is saying something that's like, I
wish I could think of an example, but like something
funny or roasty that usually maybe slang.
(02:54):
Maybe they're using slang and it's like kind of entertaining
that they're making a robot say this thing that they typed
that's like self deprecating Gen.
Z talk or millennial talk or whatever.
That's what I think. They'll be like, stop cleaning
your cabinets like this. That's so chewy.
I can't even do the voice. I can't.
(03:16):
Even do the that was a perfect selection.
Thank you, thank you. It's so weird.
It always just takes me out of the ad and I'm like, I think,
'cause when I hear someone usingAI for voiceover, I just assume
they didn't have enough money toget an actual voiceover artist
(03:37):
and or actor. And I mean, it's big companies
doing it. It's giant companies who I've
seen doing it on professional commercials.
And so obviously they have the money.
I mean, you save a little bit from not paying a voice over
actor, but it's, they don't they, it's not money that
(03:58):
matters to them. So I guess I have to assume
they've done the research that this is effective.
But then the whole time during the ad all I can think is why
are they doing this Tiktok voice?
But then the other thing that I think might be the tactic, like
the marketing tactic is that they could potentially catch
(04:20):
somebody's eye faster, easier, keep somebody for longer because
the viewer may not realize untilthe it's the the reel is further
along that it's a company's advertisement.
Yeah, it. Is what it is.
So it's like, it's like, oh, like I'm just scrolling, you
(04:41):
know, regular influencer or regular person reels, reels,
reels for an ad. If it was like a highly produced
ad with a professional voice actor, you would notice that in
your scroll. And it would take you out of it.
Wow. I think you nailed it.
I think that is what it is. Yeah.
I think so too. I hate it though.
I hate. It it is really annoying 'cause
(05:02):
it'll be like there's only one like body snatching.
I feel like a lot of the I get alot of ads for like Spanx
adjacent or Skims adjacent. I feel so snatched right now.
Yeah, yeah. It's like there's only one that
works for me and it's like this weird Siri bot, but then it's a
(05:23):
person trying on the the smoothing shorts or whatever.
Yeah, I don't know. I think it, it makes me angry.
I I guess if they're doing it, it's probably effective for
them, but it just makes me feel like, oh, you think I'm
definitely dumb, which I guess they do anyway, but.
They do, and like, you know, they're marketing to a broad
(05:48):
audience. So like even if they get the
dumb ones, as long as the dumb ones still have money to pay
them, they don't care if they were dumb or not you know?
True. Maybe I am one of the dumb ones.
I actually probably AM. Yeah, I follow for a lot of
Instagram advertising. I've I've gotten better about it
because I've ordered enough stuff from like weird brands
(06:08):
I've never heard of that just got fed to me and realized that
it's all junk that I don't orderit anymore.
But I had to do that, like many,many times before learning that
lesson. Totally.
And then when you get something,whether it's off an Instagram ad
or like anywhere, when you get something that's actually
quality, you're like, whoa. Yeah, which like shouldn't be it
(06:32):
when you paid $50 and then another like 20 for shipping
because it's international and like, you just go down this
rabbit hole and you can't stop at some point.
You know, the thing that gets mea lot of the time, and this is
like a very known marketing tactic as well, is when it's
more expensive, I'm like, oh, well, this one must be good.
(06:54):
This one must be good. You you, there's like perceived
value and then it's still trash.Yeah.
No, at least I burned a lot of money for this trash.
Yeah, I've had that realization recently because we were getting
all new like bedding, like more like duvet covers and stuff.
(07:16):
We wanted to change the color inour room and whatever.
And I was looking for so long atevery like doing so much
research over and over again of every brand that makes like
linen duvet covers. And it's bizarre that the same
thing, it's the same size, it's the same type of fabric.
(07:39):
Like I went down to the materials and description and
read like the percent linen and the percent cotton and whatever
else. They're all the same thing.
Honestly, they all even have thesame colors available.
Like they're definitely just these companies just get it all
from the same manufacturer and the price range is so different
depending on the brand that you choose.
(08:02):
And still, it was very enticing to me to to be like, well, I
want to splurge for the more expensive brand.
Like everybody says they love this brand and everybody says,
you know, and it's more expensive.
So it must something about it must be better.
But every like stat that I couldread and every spec that I could
read showed me nothing as to whyit was better.
(08:25):
I went for like a middle of the road selection and I feel good
about it. It I think it's the same.
I think it's the same. Yeah, a lot of the time it is
one thing that first of all, yes, first of all, freaking yes,
a lot of the time, it is one thing that Justin taught me,
which is helpful really to no one, is that you can have like,
(08:47):
you know, you know, say there's two companies that say the
clothing item is 100% wool, great, 100% cashmere, great.
And they can, that's all they really have to list in the
description. But you can have different
length of the fibers and different one shorter length
(09:11):
fiber of wool will be itchier and it'll fray more and it'll
peel more than a longer length fiber of wool.
But no one is required to list the lengths of their fibers.
So they both. So then sometimes, sometimes
there is a difference in the field, the quality, the
(09:31):
durability, but you just have noway of knowing.
You can't know. Great.
Is this like thread count for sheets?
Like it's different about threadcount.
It's it's literally fiber length.
Length. Like I have a cloth and it's
almost like like for a rug they would call it the pile.
Is that what we're talking? About no, it's like, I think my
(09:54):
understanding we really got to get Justin in on this, but is
like the the the fibers, as I understand, I don't know that
are woven together to make a single thread.
So there's the. Thread count, but one of those
threads I believe has like can be made of shorter or longer
fibers. So shorter fibers will fray more
(10:15):
and they like split out more, almost like split ends sort of.
And they itch more and they fraymore and, and a longer fiber is
more expensive. And I don't know, I, I hate that
I'm even talking about this because I don't have an answer
to it. And it's just like, they can
both be genuinely 100% wool. But then there's, you know,
(10:36):
there's like there the way there's like variety in leather
quality. You can have different quality
of leather, you can have different quality of wool, you
can have different quality fibers of cotton.
It just makes me want to be likeOK I guess I'm going back to
Forever 21 after. All I was, I don't.
Know what to? Do I was just thinking that I
give up? It's like I can part up.
(10:58):
I don't. You got me.
I don't want any part of this. Yeah, that's, this is like
molecular level fabrics and clothing.
Yeah, Selections that like I don't have the capacity for.
No, literally I found this YouTube channel where it's like
a fabric. I was gonna say mixologist.
He might as well be a fabric mixof Albert Scientist and he goes
(11:20):
to like design houses that have in house manufacturing, which is
also rare and has to like interview them about their
fibers and stuff. And like, that's the only way
you can get access to the information 'cause otherwise
it's not available. And I'm like, you know what,
I'm, I'm delighted for you that this is the work you're doing.
And also I can't, I can't be learning about this.
(11:43):
No, I can't. Be learning about, it's good.
To know that this information issomewhere if I chose to access.
Like 3 people have it, yeah. But I won't choose to access it.
Actually, I'll just leave it in that place that it's living in
without me. I don't.
I don't have it. Prince Abby the producer here.
I just wanted to chime in that if you 2 are on a fashion
(12:06):
journey that includes buying more 100% organic fabrics, don't
give up based on fiber length. That's annoying for sure, and I
have plenty of itchy wool that bugs me.
But ultimately, the point of creating more of a demand for
these 100% natural fabrics is tohelp our sweet little earth, our
landfills. Are full of.
Clothes made of synthetic fabrics and when they burn and
(12:28):
breakdown they release microplastics and gross
chemicals into the air. So wool and cotton and other
natural fabrics do not release gross chemicals into the air
because they're made of organic materials like plants and
animal. Fiber so they breakdown like
other natural materials, creating soil and other good
(12:51):
things for the earth. Just a little science for you.
I'm really impressed that you solved this mystery though.
I bet you are correct about the AI.
Thank you and why it's effective.
It's 'cause I've thought a lot about it, though, Like, I've
come, I've come to my conclusions and I've thought a
lot about it. And yeah, and I'm a scientist
and I think that's really the gist of it.
(13:11):
This conversation does make me think though about what you
texted me 'cause we're talking about like, you know, spending a
lot of time scrolling, spending a lot of time buying shit on
Instagram, spending time or not spending time.
Watching YouTube. Researching fabrics.
That I don't like, yeah. Right.
(13:34):
And it actually is a great segueinto what you texted me.
So in last week's episode, we launched our dating series, and
I've been so excited to see how much everyone's loving it.
Yeah. People that the hoes be loving
it. The hoes and I'm one of them.
I'd be loving it and I'm not even dating and I'm listening.
I, I'd be listening and I said something that I thought was
(13:59):
really like dumb in that episodethat you texted me later and
said was not dumb and I and you didn't know I had any feelings
about it. I.
Didn't. But I did, and it was just some
passing comment about how I'm very particular about where I
spend my energy, which isn't dumb in and of itself, but I
feel like the way it came up in the episode, I wasn't like
(14:19):
prepared to really delve into what that meant.
Oh, it was great. I loved it.
I thought it was. I know that it's a big value and
point of focus to you and I feellike I was just like, I think we
could do a whole top a whole episode on like deciding where
to put your energy, where to track, retract your energy and
(14:40):
or even just this casual last conversation about it.
I thought it was a great thing to bring up.
Yeah, I do think it's worth talking about more 'cause I
think about it every day. Like I think it is a governing
principle that lives in my head at all times that like whether
I'm cognitively aware of it all the time, I don't know.
(15:00):
But like it's definitely in the decision tree for me of what
what I do and don't do every single day.
Like the choices I make in my life on how I spend my time in
that decision tree is this layerof like energy preservation.
How do I decide whether it's worth my energy or not?
And I have a lot I could say about it.
I don't know, should I just start?
(15:22):
Yeah, just go. I want to hear like where, what
are the places like right now? You don't have to explain all of
your thoughts around energy. This is also.
This is this is the most woo woo.
We can do it. I was I was thinking the other
day, this is like the most woo woo thing about me is that I I
will say a lot like I'm just like following my energy here or
(15:43):
listen to your energy there. And I think there's a lot of
other woo woo things that I don't like.
I'm I don't really relate to them.
They don't do a lot for me, but some, but this does.
And I don't know if it's actually different from anything
else. But I was thinking that the
other day and I want to hear where are areas like just
recently that you're like, I'm right now I see myself pulling
(16:07):
energy away from this place or towards this place or like
what's top of mind for you? Yeah, interesting.
I've been on the verge of burnout, I would say.
Sounds. Recently and I've been there
before and I'll be here again. So like I recognize it and I
(16:29):
know what it feels like to me. I've just been busy in a lot of
different areas and so I'm having to be thoughtful about
like I need to pull back somewhere and where's that going
to be? And I think 1 area that comes to
mind is like, I don't know. I, I don't want to say my
(16:51):
relationships because that's nottrue.
My relationships are very important to me.
Say it also. And yet at the same time, I
think the amount of energy that I give to many, many
relationships is untenable. Like it's not sustainable for a
(17:13):
person to give this amount to this many relationships when
there's so many other facets of life that like just have to
happen. And I think that that's where
I'm trying to hone in right now.Like I, you know, I have a, a
friend who's like not my closestbest friend, but not somebody
(17:38):
who I like, never talked to either, just somebody in between
who I like and care about. And, but we're not like besties.
And something bothered me that this friend said in a recent
conversation with them. And I didn't even really realize
that it bothered me until like acouple weeks later, like
(18:00):
something wasn't sitting right. And then I thought about it for
longer and then I kind of got tothe bottom of like what it was
and why it bothered me. And then I OK, so like once I'm
there, we're two weeks out from when it actually happened.
This friend has no idea. I'm sure they didn't mean
anything by it. It just sat wrong with me and
whatever. And then I was like at a
(18:20):
crossroads where I was like, do I talk to them about this?
Like how important is it to me to have that conversation and
clear this up versus just knowing that I have clarity and
kind of deciding that like this moment and this friend and
whatever isn't really worth thatenergy right now?
(18:43):
Like, I don't think I have the energy to talk to them about
this. I don't think I have the energy
to hear them out about this. I don't think I have the energy
to potentially be wrong about this.
And like that might make me that, that might say some
negative stuff about me, but it is the truth of where I'm at.
I don't think it does. I think you're not like taking.
You're not like taking action onit without talking to them.
(19:08):
You're just. No, I don't think it's.
I'm just. Letting it pass.
I think every, just so you know,I think everything you're saying
is so relatable. Go on.
Thank you. It was like kind of a profound
thing to realize because I was processing it with Ryan and
being like, why is this bothering me so much?
And we got to it and he was like, do you think you'll talk
to them about it? And I was like, Nah, dog, like
(19:29):
I'm tired. That would take something from
me. This isn't a friendship where I
feel the need to like work through everything that ever
comes up. I don't feel the need for that
in any of my friendships. But especially like kind of
where this friend is to me and what we are to each other.
Like it just doesn't feel necessary or worthwhile.
(19:51):
And like, I kind of got to the bottom of it and I can just sit
with that. And next time I see them, like
hopefully it won't be awkward. If it is a little awkward like,
that'll pass too. And like, whatever, it's just
not a big deal. And I think that is like a
microcosm of how I feel about energy overall.
It's like it's not even saying I'm going to give all my energy
(20:16):
to my relationships and not as much to work or I'm going to
give all my energy to work and not as much to my relationships
or, and I know there's like a million other categories of life
that we could be talking about. I feel like for me, it's like
getting really nitty gritty and for every level of like thing
that's going on and person that you have in your life and
situation that comes up decidinglike how much does this matter
(20:40):
for me to like keep going down that path versus how much can I
can I just like let it go? It's about letting things go, I
think. Yeah.
What do you think in like an alternate universe would have
been the thing that compelled you to talk to them about the
thing? If it was a pattern and if they
were a friend who I felt more ofthe need to be like in lockstep
(21:06):
with. Yeah, yeah.
Like if we were a lot closer andit felt like, oh, we're really
like something's repeatedly going on where I feel
misunderstood or disrespected orjust like diminished.
Yeah. And it's like happened a couple
Times Now. And you're a person in my life
(21:28):
who like, I can't bear to feel that way with.
Like, that's that's where I would talk to the person about
it and pursue that. And there's plenty of people in
my life who fit that description.
But I don't know. You just got to do a trade off
of like, how important is this? How important is it that this
(21:48):
person knows? And I don't know, people write
in a lot about like kind of friend breakups and like, should
I talk to them about it? Should we have like a discussion
about like our friendship is ending or should I just kind of
let it fade out or something in between?
(22:09):
I find myself to be more. It's not that I'll avoid a
conversation. Like if a conversation needs to
happen, I'll have it or if the other person wants to, I will.
But it's almost like if you already know what's what you
feel about it, then like how much do you really need to check
in with the other person? I don't know.
Oh. Yeah.
Oh yeah. I feel like what you said you
(22:31):
were like, I, I didn't feel likeI wanted to talk to them about
it, but I already had clarity about how I felt or what it
meant to me. And I do feel like that's
actually like you already got tothe end goal.
Basically, it's, I feel like it's a combination of, you know,
what it does for you to understand you and relate to
(22:56):
yourself. Plus, how much intimacy are you
looking for with that person? Because you know, it comes up a
lot. I feel like the times it comes
up in a really tricky way is sometimes when people are
looking foreclosure, maybe they've gone through a breakup
of a like a romantic relationship.
You broke up with your girlfriend or your boyfriend or
(23:18):
whatever. And then or they broke up with
you. And a lot of time that person
they write in to us all the time, they are desperate to have
this conversation of closure. But like he won't talk to me and
I just want to have this conversation with him.
And I just want him to understand what I was trying to
do and what I really feel. And like I feel like he didn't
even get me. And it is this really
heartbreaking, like horrible position to be in where you are
(23:39):
seeking to be understood becauseit was a dynamic, you know
someone you were dating. It was a relationship where you
expect ultimate intimacy. However, as soon as you're
broken up, no, you are not owed.Nobody is owed all that
intimacy. But you still want it, of
course, and you still feel it. And then there's this
overwhelming feeling of like, but I still really want that
(24:01):
intimacy. I still really want them to do
the work, to meet me, to understand me, to see me.
But you're broken up any now. And nobody owes that to each
other really anymore if they're not interested in it.
And so that's one moment where Ifeel like it feels important to
be understood and to be seen andto be in lockstep.
But it's no longer the entire premise of the agreement, which
(24:24):
is that we're not together anymore.
And that's what feels so heartbreaking.
It's like people can't they, they, they are not owed you
that. They can't go to jail for
denying you that. And then but it's really, it's a
miserable feeling. And then the other situation I
feel like, yeah, like maybe witha friend breakup or something
(24:44):
where maybe you don't want to see them anymore or even a
boyfriend or a girlfriend. Maybe you're like, I don't need
them to understand me. Actually, I've given up on them.
I've relinquished it myself fromthem.
But you might still want that conversation because you need to
get something off your chest or you need to advocate for
yourself one time. I never advocated for myself.
(25:07):
I never stood up for myself. I never really expressed what I
was going through and what I experienced here.
And it would feel really important for me to do that one
time. And I, I think that's also, I
think that's also really healthy.
And, and the whole thing there is like, it's not really about
changing them. It's not really about getting
somebody else to see you differently or see you a
(25:28):
different way. The transformative process
there. I think it's just I get to
relate to myself differently because I stood up for myself.
I spoke up for myself one time. And so if you're in this
position that you described, it sounds to me where like you
don't have this super deep intimacy expectation.
(25:51):
And you also have already advocated for yourself.
You understand yourself, You have validated your own
feelings. You have clarity on how you
feel, then why would you do the conversation right now if
there's not an ask for it or a need for it?
And that actually makes sense tome.
It does make sense to me. Yeah.
(26:11):
I think it's a probably a good place to be.
It sounds like I like it. I feel like it's a good place to
be. I mean, it's funny because I
feel like sometimes, you know, we've basically built a podcast
on the premise of direct communication.
There's a lot of premises that we've thrown around, but I feel
(26:32):
like one that's come up a lot isdirect communication.
And I very much value that. And I think there's very much a
place for that. But I also equally think that
there's very much a place for letting things go, picking your
battles, like keeping to yourself a little more.
(26:52):
We posted like maybe a month or two ago, I did some sort of
Instagram reel about protecting your peace.
And like that concept being a tricky 1 where like, on one
hand, I agree and on the other hand, you have to like interact
and engage with people in the world around you.
And there's like this balance that we're all walking all the
(27:14):
time of how much do I like say the thing, do the thing,
interact, be proactive. And how much do I like sit back
and just let things wash away? And somebody commented on it a
bit sassy. I'm not trying to call them out.
It was, it's like interesting tothink about somebody commented
(27:35):
and said like you girls are always about direct
communication and now you're kind of saying the opposite or
something. And to that I'm just like, why
does it have to be 1? I think there's so many
situations where direct communication is very valuable
and there's so many situations where why what you're wasting
(27:55):
your energy. Like it is about ultimately the
decision point comes down to energy.
And is it going to be worthwhileto put my energy towards a
direct conversation, or is it going to be better for me to put
my energy towards repairing within myself, Resting,
recuperating, processing, letting time pass, seeing if the
(28:17):
other person does something like, there's two people in the
mix, you know, So there's so many more options than just
like, I have to go talk to them right now about this thing.
Totally. I I just disagree that choosing
not to verbalize something and every moment is at odds with
direct communication. Like good communication is
(28:40):
doesn't just mean talking non-stop.
It good communication as I'm trying to understand it not a
fucking scientist on this, but as I understand it, other things
yes is a lot is a lot to do withtiming and patience and getting
away from urgency. I feel like urgency we've talked
(29:03):
about a lot is like urgency basically ruins good
communication and communication is also like, when are you quiet
and when are you with yourself? And also what are you looking
for from this conversation? Like if you're already at peace
with yourself and you're not asking something more of this
friend, you're not you're not expecting her to show up to your
(29:25):
next hangout and behave differently or deliver in some
different way. You don't have like an unnamed
expectation for her. Now, if you have a a silent
unspoken expectation, then yeah,the you need some direct
communication. But if your decision is just
like, oh, I'm I'm not expecting anything right now.
(29:47):
I'm not interested in putting mytime or mental energy there
right now, then talking to them would be what just to shame
them, just to scold them, Just like, what would it?
What would the the point be? I mean, obviously there's
nuance. Maybe it's hard to talk about
with I feel like I always hear listeners in their head being
like, what about this, What about that?
And like we can't be talking about all moments at once.
(30:10):
But I just don't think that those things are in.
I'm conflict with each other. Yeah.
I feel like it's been one of thethings I'm proudest of recently
and has brought so much peace into my life, is learning to sit
on things. Because then you have more time
to think about it. If it's something that really
(30:31):
needs to be talked about, like the next opportunity will come
up, it's not going to go away. So you'll have time and maybe
you'll be less emotional. I'll be less emotional.
I'm very emotional. Or I'll have my thoughts
together more. They'll have congealed more or
like, I don't know, there's something that really upset me
involving YouTube. I'm this week and right now I'm
(30:55):
in the midst of recording or voice over for a new YouTube
video. And I was like, oh, I could talk
about this in the YouTube video,but these feelings are still
raw. I I think I'm pretty confident
about like what I feel on this topic and what I might want to
say about it, but I only startedfeeling this all like maybe 2
(31:17):
days ago. The feelings are still raw and I
think we both have learned in producing content, making
content, the price that comes with talking about feelings in a
podcast or in a YouTube video when they're too new and too raw
because they're only at like stage 1.
And then when you let them like congeal, I keep using the word
(31:38):
congeal. That's like fossilized.
I don't know if it's the right word, but there's like there's
like two or three or four more stages that they turn into and
mature into that you kind of miss out on if you make content
on it right away. And I think that's not specific
to content. That's like all feelings that
(31:59):
affect all relationships and allconversations.
But it's just really clear, the price you pay, I think when you
put it in content and thousands of people get to respond to it
and you get to see the response and it's a week later and you're
like, fuck, I don't even really feel that way anymore.
I feel 10 different things now. And I think that just like,
(32:21):
yeah, it's become really clear to sit on it.
Just the benefit of letting things.
What is a better word than congeal?
Congeals really only used to talk about blood crystal,
settle, settle, crystallize. Yes, we got to make our
crystals. Yeah, we gotta make our
crystals. This is now we're woo woo again.
(32:43):
I hate crystals. I found so many crystals I move
into my new place and there's somany like crystals left out that
like the. That are yours or that the
people that I'm like what? Are you saying that the previous
tenants left in the backyard? There's like just all these like
Justin was like, oh, I think thelast tenant was a crystal
collector. And it seems very, very clear.
(33:03):
And then I also found him hoarding one of the crystals in
the bathroom. And I was like, Justin, what are
you doing with this? He's like, I liked this one
actually. He said.
I thought it was a cool rock. Yeah, as soon as it's a rock,
it's cool, but when it's a crystal, it's woo woo.
Like. I feel a little as somebody who
has a couple, a tasteful amount of crystals.
Wow. How many is that?
(33:24):
What's the tasteful number? Well, there was a time when I
like moved to Chicago. I was going through a breakup
like, you know, that era of my life.
That's the crystallizing time. I got some crystals.
Listen, I got some rose quartz and I rubbed it, OK?
Like I did what I had to do. Would you rub it?
Rubbed it. Yeah.
(33:45):
You know, nipples, other. Places none you're.
Supposed to rub. Are you supposed to rub crystals
on your body? No, I think you're supposed to
like, hold them. So I have a friend who's really
into crystals, actually. And she is the most unlikely
person to be into crystals. She works at a financial
institution in cybersecurity. She's like a really intense,
(34:07):
like New Yorker. She's not the crystal person.
And yet she's gotten really intocrystals in her 30s, actually.
And she's in a healthy marriage and like it just it's not, it's
not what you would expect. And that's what makes it great.
And she sent me a bunch of crystals for my birthday last
year, like a little pack. And they all, they're all
(34:29):
different. And they came with a list of
like what they all mean or represent or you know, what they
can like unlock in you, I guess.And you're supposed to just hold
them, and then you're also supposed to charge them, like by
the what? Excuse.
Me sun. Excuse me.
Why? There were some in your
backyard. You're supposed to, like, put
(34:49):
crystals in the sun to charge them every so often.
I don't do any of these things with them, but yeah, this is the
extent of my crystal knowledge. I had more to say on that topic,
but whatever. I'm here now.
Yeah. All right.
On whatever we were talking about before we learned we grew.
It's cool. If I haven't made it abundantly
(35:14):
clear yet in this episode, I'm burning out.
I am at capacity. I am spread thin.
I am whatever other idiom there is for the fact that I have no
time, no energy, and I just wantto be outside frolicking and
like life doesn't want me to do that.
I know that you can relate. The one thing that lets me do
(35:37):
that a little bit easier, the one part of my life that
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(36:40):
You everything dumb to tell me. Always my complaint is people
who say niche instead of niche for the word NICHEI have no
judgement on them. I have literally nothing more to
say about them. I just don't like it.
That leads me to my ick which isanother pronunciation issue.
(37:05):
People who say frustrated. Who says that?
The baby people say it. The baby yes, it is the baby way
to say frustrated, but adult people sometimes say it.
I was watching. Frustrated.
Frustrated I was watching some like dumb dating show and
(37:27):
somebody, an adult man said it. No.
He said it. Was he American?
Yes, and he was like supposed tobe the hot one on the show too.
And it, I mean, I didn't find him hot to begin with, but I was
trying to lean in and then that happened and it was over.
The only thing I could think I thought you were gonna say was
one of like your British dating shows.
And it was like, maybe I was like, maybe that's a British
(37:48):
thing. No, I'm.
Frustrated. Yeah.
Oh, I don't like that that it wasn't.
The first time I had heard it. What?
Yeah, that makes my body feel. Bad.
You're not encountering as many dumb people as I am.
Maybe and then that's something I need to.
Find I am. No, I am.
Are you what's happened? Tell me, do you have a dumb
(38:12):
story of a of a dumb person? You know what?
I don't actually don't know. I can't think of any dumb
people. It's probably me.
I don't think I've. If you can't think of dumb
people if you. Can't think of them.
Then it's you. Yeah, I do think it's me.
It's usually me. Here's something dumb though.
OK, this is important, I think I've decided.
(38:33):
Dumb but important. Dumb but important.
So my entire life I have always slept like well I've always
thought I needed like 11 hours of sleep.
I don't ever get that cause no one has that time in the day.
But basically I sleep whatever number of hours.
I can never get up I can never get out of bed.
(38:55):
I'm, I'm always tired, but I, yeah, but I just, whatever you
sleep 8 or 9 hours 'cause like who is time for 11?
That doesn't even make sense. But that's basically the only
way, you know, like maybe once every two months I'd let my
sleep self sleep with no alarm and I would get up after like 11
hours. And I'm definitely felt like
(39:16):
shame and stupid about that. Like, sorry, I sleep so much and
like, I hope people don't think I'm lazy, but I'm, I don't feel
lazy. I feel like I'm going on sleep
deprivation all the time and living despite it, but
definitely always feel like someone's going to judge me for
it. All of my siblings are the same.
Lots of them do sleep 11 hours. We all need so much sleep.
(39:37):
And so it's obviously it was just like, OK, it's some genetic
thing, whatever. And then the other day one of my
siblings was like, oh, Caroline,I was prescribed Trazodone.
Trazodone. It's a prescription sleep aid
also sometimes used, sometimes used for insomnia, sometimes
(39:59):
used for depression. And they were prescribed it for
whatever reason, not important. And they were like, it made my
sleep quality so much better so that now I sleep 8 hours and I
just wake up and I'm done. And they were like, I never
(40:20):
realized that I was just gettingbad quality sleep my whole life.
So I wasn't getting the full R.E.M. cycle.
And that's why I was sleeping solong.
And this was my sibling who saidthis to me, which is why I
actually listened to it because I was like, we probably have
this very similar genetics. And so I tried it and Trazodone,
(40:41):
I'm. So let me first say disclaimer,
I am very, very hesitant to talkabout prescription medications
ever publicly because it is so unique to the individual blah
blah blah blah blah. What works for one person will
not work for another person. It is so specific.
(41:02):
You have to talk to a doctor. And I this, this discovery
actually happened months ago andI haven't talked about it
because I was like, I don't wantto talk about this until I sit
on it for a while. But this has literally changed
my life. It has literally changed my
life. Not habit forming.
It's not like Ambien or Xanax orsomething.
(41:22):
It is not habit forming and you can't get addicted and it
doesn't create a tolerance with,you know, confirm all that with
your doctor. But that's what my doctor told
me and I take it and I for the first time in my life am
sleeping through the night and Iwill wake up in 7 hours without
(41:43):
an alarm. Whoa.
It has literally changed my lifeand I I mean in so much as I'm
getting probably 3 hours of of my day back where I'm otherwise
groggy or would be sleeping and I I like can't get over it.
(42:03):
I've been talking about it everyday day to Justin.
I probably am so annoying but ithas actually changed my life.
That's incredible. Isn't that crime?
Very intrigued. Yeah, I have noticed.
You know, I just sit over here like observing how people are on
(42:24):
my phone. You know, I'm like, oh, they're
texting me a little earlier thanusual.
Or you. Seen that?
You seen that? Shit, like I, I just observed
these things about the people who I talk to all the time and
you're one of those people. And I do think I've noticed like
she's up earlier or or up later.6:00 AM or 6 AM. 7:00 AM OR.
Her do not disturb isn't on as often or as late or whatever,
(42:48):
like just things like that. Very interesting.
Uh huh. Your your impact, your
productivity has shown your ability to.
It's amazing. Reached is improved.
Thank you. Which is probably a negative
side effect. You probably want to change
that, but that's true. Wow.
It has changed my life. It has changed my life.
(43:11):
Therapist or PCP or anything? I think it's your like General
practitioner or like your whatever they're called.
I mean, you have to talk to a doctor.
You have to, it's prescribed. So you have to talk to them and
figure out your own situation. And it's not like it just makes
you need less sleep. But for me, it seems to be that
I was not. I had really restless sleep.
(43:32):
And so I might be in bed a long time, but like you don't get the
R.E.M. cycle, then your body is not restored, blah, blah, blah,
blah, blah. Listen, I don't fucking know
what it's doing exactly, but it's in you.
It's amazing. And I never, it's funny because
I, I think we've talked before about being like morning people,
night people. And I'm not not a morning
person. Like I'm not grouchy or really
(43:55):
slow to get going in the morning.
Like I'm delighted if if I'm like 20 minutes out of bed, I'm
delighted to be alive and I'm instantly doing stuff.
But it is impossible to Get Me Out of bed no matter how much I
slept. And it did make me feel just
like kind of a lazy piece of shit, even though I'm a manic,
always working, non lazy piece of shit.
(44:17):
I'm still a piece of shit though.
But yeah, it has changed my life.
And because it has changed my life, I'm here.
There is something out there. Sounds.
I think it might What? Because here's the thing I need.
I've always said I need a minimum of nine hours and lately
my 9 hours has not been feeling.Yeah.
(44:38):
Like the nine that I thought wasenough.
I wake up and I can't. I'm groggy for like the first
hour of the day. I'm just like in bed waiting for
my eyes to feel fully open or something.
And it does make me feel lazy. Like I feel bad about it because
(44:59):
I already work from home. I'm a very hard working person
who has two jobs and does a lot of work.
Like, on one hand, I know that about myself.
And you know what? Even if we weren't being a hard.
Working person, it wouldn't. Matter.
This isn't Protestant America anymore, OK?
We don't need these puritanical values.
We don't even have to be hard working.
I don't give a shit. But it is OK.
(45:19):
That's a whole other interestingtopic, because even if that is
true, which it is, I think I still value it, you know, for.
Myself totally. And so which I could, yeah, give
a whole separate spiel about that we could talk about another
time, because I've been thinkingabout that a lot lately.
Like the dichotomy of like, I've, I want to be untethered
(45:41):
from like my work and my output and my productivity is my value.
And also, what if I just value that?
I don't know. Anyway, yeah, so I work from
home which already makes my day easier.
You work from home too? Like I can wake up, my alarm is
set at 8:00 AM. Most of my friends alarms are
set at six or seven because theygo into an office.
(46:03):
So that already makes me feel a little bit like a lazy piece of
shit. And then at 8, I still can't get
out of bed and I'm sitting therefor an hour just being like, uh,
like Ryan, get me coffee. Getting through 4:00 alarms,
like I have to set four or five alarms where I wouldn't get out
of bed. Yeah.
And I have been wondering like, what is this just who I am now?
Like is this? It's.
(46:24):
Perimenopause. Perimenopause.
No, it probably is. I've.
Been seeing a lot of informationonline about like how that
starts earlier than you think. It does start earlier, but it's
not at this age. I mean, you know, there's always
exceptions, but those people arejust trying to get money out of
you to buy a new product. Yeah, they are.
It's the they. Are just they're getting you a
gun. They're, I mean, they're getting
(46:45):
me a fucking gun. Yeah.
Anyway, this is a great innovation that you've just
shared with all of us. I'm gonna.
And I am sharing it with the largest grain of salt.
Ask my doctor, yeah. It's part of the reason why I
like, I don't really want to talk about, I don't know, you
and I talked about like ADHD medication and stuff.
And I think because being raisedby medical people, you just know
(47:07):
like it's, it's nothing. Everything is serious.
There's there's pros and cons toall of it.
Nothing is a quick, easy fix. Like remember with it at the
part of the reason I hesitated to talk about this and I wanted
to like watch it for a while wasbecause the way I was feeling
about Trazodone was like, Oh my God, it's it's non habit forming
(47:30):
and it just fixed blah blah, blah.
And I don't see any side effects.
That's how people used to talk about opiates.
They used to be like, oh, it's anon it's a non habit forming.
No negative side effect. I'm alternative to what was it?
What were what I think it was I'm morphine.
Morphine was what they were doing before I think.
(47:51):
And spoiler, that wasn't true. So I'm not going to sit here and
say there's no side effects because that's just not even
possible. Everything is cause and effect.
Everything is cause and effect. There's trade off for
everything, which is why I do think you need to you have to
talk to a professional and you have to take it seriously.
(48:11):
But vetting it for several months now, as well as my
sibling for like a long time now, it is seemed worth looking
into. Some drugs do something for a
reason and I just think you shouldn't take any of them
lightly. Yeah.
Agree agree. I also think though it does make
(48:32):
me, it does make me think that of this other like medicine
related thing I've been thinkingabout recently, which is like
there's so many different doctors and approaches to
medicine and different drugs outthere for different purposes and
whatever. And as I get older and I have
(48:54):
certain like recurring issues, Iguess that I haven't quite
solved yet. Like a good example is skin
stuff like I I have dermatology issues that I have been trying
to figure out for like my whole adult life.
Tried many things they haven't really gotten to like the root
(49:15):
cause and only now at almost 34 years old did a new
dermatologist recommend to me toget on Accutane, which I know is
very well known and lots of people have been on it.
It's a serious, serious drug. So I'm not recommending that
everybody and anybody with skin issues get on Accutane.
(49:37):
But it was really interesting tome when I finally found this
Doctor Who like heard all of theother things that I've tried and
kind of deduced like, it's time for you to do this.
And no one else has ever mentioned it to me before.
And it's almost the same as. That is surprising.
Maybe with Trazodone if you've been having or your siblings,
(49:58):
like in general, if it's been a thing for your family your whole
lives that like you've not needed a lot of sleep, you've
not gotten good sleep. I don't know, like no, but but
there's, it doesn't seem like there's a solution until
suddenly there is, until suddenly like one doctor
realizes like, hey, try this thing.
(50:18):
It's just so interesting to how fickle that is.
Like I know. It's the line between and Then
imagine if it was like much moreserious issues.
It's the line between like ending up with a Doctor Who
thinks of that thing and ending up with a Doctor Who doesn't.
Who thinks of it and like it aligns with their philosophy
that they like to prescribe it or they like to try it like it
(50:41):
really is? Yes.
Yes, it's like overwhelming and anxiety inducing to think about.
I've, I've definitely had that experience with so many
different things. Definitely with when I was, you
know, struggling with depressionlike in my early 20s and there
was so much trial and error. Definitely with like the IBS
stuff. Everyone's just fucking throwing
(51:03):
darts in the dark, and so many of them just turned into this
crazy rabbit hole. And I'm sure the stress of the
pursuit of answers probably makes any condition worse.
Like, name a condition, it'll make it worse.
(51:24):
Yeah, it's really crazy. It's really crazy.
Agree, agree. We end up talking about medicine
a lot. Like I guess just because we're
scientists, I don't know, we endup, we end up on these topics.
It's just the real, it's just what people's lives are made of
is yeah, what's going on with myhealth.
(51:44):
It's, I guess it's kind of funnyto think like this things that
is science and it is science butis still administered by humans.
It's science administered by flawed humans.
And it ends up feeling almost like, I think people end up
taking a lot more stable trust in their astrologer somehow,
(52:10):
somehow that ends up feeling more reliable sometimes.
Which like, you know, it's AII. It doesn't really resonate for
me, but it's not like I'm over here in the world of Western
medicine feeling like it's not afucking crapshoot either.
Like it's like, oh, what doctor you get?
(52:31):
Like, what's their mood? Like?
What do they feel like giving you?
Like, can you get an appointment?
La, la, la. And.
And so it is hard science, but then it's also just fucking
whatever wave you happen to catch that day.
Yeah. So it's it's like, I don't know,
it's perplexing. It's it.
(52:51):
It is. Weird about our whole world that
like just everything relies on human beings.
I mean, I don't know, that's like such a weird, weird
existential thought. We're high, but I do think about
it sometimes, like, I don't know.
(53:11):
Everything you see around you, ahuman put there.
What? What do you mean?
Like these buildings and bridges.
And, you know, it's the reason that like, strikes work, because
there's such a ripple effect. I don't know.
I think that stuff is really fascinating, just how much it
(53:33):
feels like we don't have control, but actually everything
is controlled by us. I lost it.
No, I get. Here I lost it.
No, I got you. I got you.
All right. Let's see what we have going on.
Oh, I was talking to my sister the other day and this blew my
(53:59):
mind. She was like, you know how like
when we were in our 20s and it just felt like we had like all
the time in the world to do whatever and I was like, I
literally never felt that way. No, what are you referencing?
I no, everything was so always so high pressure and I felt like
(54:20):
I was always behind and I'm, I feel like everybody else in
their 20s feels the same way. I like, didn't know what she was
referencing, but it's something I think maybe that people like
to reference when they're older and they like, lie to themselves
and they're like, they 'cause they maybe they look back on the
issues they had in their 20s andthen like with future knowledge,
(54:43):
they're like, yeah, I had all the time in the world, but I
don't think anyone feels that way at the time.
No, OK. I think I just needed validation
that she's wrong. Yeah, it it reminds me of in a
very, very early episode of the podcast, one of my first, if not
my first solo episodes, I've referenced being feeling like,
(55:11):
you know what? Maybe this was even on peeking
my old podcast. But either way, I referenced
being feeling more carefree in my late 20s, early 30s than I
had ever felt before and specifically thinking about like
high school and college and early 20s me.
(55:33):
Like she was so bogged down by the pressures and the what do
people think? And Oh my God, like every little
thing has to be perfect. I have to do perfectly in
school. I have to do perfectly with my
friends. I have to look perfect.
I have to whatever. And I thought that was like a
normal thing to say. Like I thought that was like the
(55:55):
shared experience that kind of as you get older, maybe you
become more carefree or. Oh, I guess I yeah, I would have
thought so too. Yeah, it doesn't mean you don't
have more. There's like plenty more things
that I'm responsible for now, I guess.
But I don't sweat the small stuff maybe as much.
I don't know. Anyway, I said that in this
episode and a friend of mine whoI went to college with and was a
(56:19):
very very carefree seeming person in college at least
texted me and was like loved your episode.
Like it was so interesting to methat you were describing your
experience this way because I feel like the total opposite.
Like high school college me was so carefree and now things are
getting more and more stressful.Which when she said it, I was
(56:40):
like, that also makes sense. Wow, interesting.
But I do think there's like a maybe there's a divide in how
certain people view it for, for themselves.
You know, for me, I feel like everything was, everything was
weighty when I was younger. Everything carried weight and I
(57:02):
couldn't let go of things. And I, yeah, I just like overly
worried about everything. And I I still am a person who
cares about shit, worries about shit, but it's different.
Yeah, that's, I'm, I'm amazed that yeah, I guess I just
thought everyone like had a hardtime in their teens and 20s.
(57:22):
But I guess if I thought, I guess if I think about it, it's
like the thing, the difficultieswe're describing are very like
social comparison type things like am I doing enough?
Am I included enough? Am I keeping up?
Do I have enough time running out of time, having all the time
in the world, whatever. And those are very like compare
comparing yourself to other people.
(57:43):
So I don't some people are enlightened out of that.
It's not a lot of them, but I think maybe if somebody isn't
feeling that stress, my guess maybe would be that they were
just, they felt they were succeeding in most of the ways.
Like maybe the people who didn'tfeel stressed in high school,
maybe some of them were like, OK, they're doing the
(58:03):
comparison, but the calculation outcome of the comparison is
that they're on top. So it's chill or like, you know,
on top in college, whatever the fuck that means to them
socially, you know, academically, whatever that
means. But maybe they feel less on,
like they don't come out as far ahead later on in life whereas.
(58:28):
Interesting. For me, yeah, I definitely never
felt like I was keeping up socially or professionally or
anything in any way. And I think I feel better about
my standing in my life now, but I also just don't do the
comparison as much. Yeah.
Yeah, or. I don't know.
(58:50):
It's like, what issues stress you out?
This is like in addition to whatyou're saying because growing up
and in my teens and 20s, I was the person who was like, my ass
was clenched so tight. I was so scared of like not
doing everything right. I feel like that made it so that
(59:15):
now being an adult who has responsibilities and work
obligations and owning a home and whatever, like these kind of
like tactical stressful things that we all have to deal with,
like that stuff is not that hardto.
Me, it's easy now. You are my, my parents raised
like a little project manager from the time I was like 13, you
(59:39):
know? Yeah, but the thing that's all
that was hard for me when I was organized and on top of my shit
when I was a kid was like the social and the comparison and
the am I cool and am I pretty and am I talented and am I
enough? Am I satisfying my parents
enough? They were like, it's like, maybe
if maybe it's just if you had parents who were a harsher judge
(01:00:01):
than society can ever be. That's it.
I would put myself in that category, yeah.
That's our shared. That's our shared upbringing for
sure. That's what I feel like we're
right on target with. That's when somebody first told
me, a mutual friend of ours, when you and I weren't that,
that close in high school. And I remember a mutual friend
of ours being like, you guys hadkind of similar households.
(01:00:22):
And I was like, yeah, tell me you are.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Anyway, that's.
Really funny. That's really funny.
I think it's true, and I think it's true, Yeah, I think that
might be it. So now it's like the social
comparison stuff gets easier, hopefully for everyone as you
get older. But then I've always been, gosh,
(01:00:43):
this way, this, whatever this way means I'm fine this way.
Butthole clenched. I was born with the.
I was born with the butthole of a diamond.
Oh, beautiful. Thank you.
You're. So welcome.
I think we did it. I think so too.
So let's chill. I'm going to go drink some soda.
Yeah. Doesn't that sound nice?
(01:01:05):
Yeah, it does. A soda like a what kind of soda?
Diet Coke. Diet Coke every time.
Do you ever do a root beer float?
Do you ever do a root beer float?
Oh my gosh, yes I do. Oh my gosh, thank you for
asking. I do.
We did it. I mean, at this point it's been
a couple months, but it still stands out in my memory because
it's an amazing idea to make root beer floats at home.
(01:01:27):
Yeah, I maybe want 1:00 tonight.Go do that, Honey Bunch.
OK, OK. Good idea to me.
All right, I love you a lot. Love you TTYL.
Hi, say something. Hi, hi, hi.
(01:01:50):
Hello. OK, she's back.
Urgency basically ruins good communication and communication
is also like when are you quiet and when are you with yourself
And also what are you looking for from this conversation?
(00:21):
Welcome back, this is not for everyone.
A podcast hosted by a hater. That's my baby, Caroline, and a
lover. That's me.
I'm a baby too. I'm Jess.
We're babies. We're babies today.
I'm a baby today. I'm ready to talk baby style.
OK, baby style time. Let's get baby style.
Let's get baby style. OK, you know something I was
(00:43):
wondering, I've been wondering for weeks, but I finally wrote
it down to ask you, 'cause I feel like you know is I'm have
you seen? I know you have a bunch of like
Instagram ads or YouTube ads or even regular television ads now
that use AI for voiceover. And it's like intentionally, it
(01:04):
intentionally sounds AI. It's like the AI voice, like the
automatic caption AI voice that I think is used like on TikTok.
Yeah, and it's it, it's so weirdto me 'cause every time I hear
it, like they clearly want it tosound like the TikTok, like text
(01:28):
to voice, AI voice. It's intentional in sounding AI.
And I don't understand like is that effective 'cause it just, I
thought the whole, I guess I thought the whole point of AI
was like, oh, you can make it sound like a person, but this is
like trying to make it sound like Siri or Alexa or.
(01:49):
Yeah, like robotic. Robotic I, this is, I love you.
This is why I love you, because you're a person that thinks
about these things too 'cause I don't, I don't know, I think we
all think about it, 'cause we'reall scrolling.
But I don't know if anybody spends as much time as I do
thinking about this. So you came to the right place.
Thank you, I knew you would know.
(02:10):
I think I have overanalyzed thisand I think that when those
work, it works because the text that the bot is reading is like
maybe a little sassy or self deprecating.
Like it's funny for a robot to roast you a little bit or some
(02:32):
people think it's funny for thisbrand of content.
It's it can be funny. So I think I think it's become
more broad than that. But at least when I've seen this
work well is when the bot is saying something that's like, I
wish I could think of an example, but like something
funny or roasty that usually maybe slang.
(02:54):
Maybe they're using slang and it's like kind of entertaining
that they're making a robot say this thing that they typed
that's like self deprecating Gen.
Z talk or millennial talk or whatever.
That's what I think. They'll be like, stop cleaning
your cabinets like this. That's so chewy.
I can't even do the voice. I can't.
(03:16):
Even do the that was a perfect selection.
Thank you, thank you. It's so weird.
It always just takes me out of the ad and I'm like, I think,
'cause when I hear someone usingAI for voiceover, I just assume
they didn't have enough money toget an actual voiceover artist
(03:37):
and or actor. And I mean, it's big companies
doing it. It's giant companies who I've
seen doing it on professional commercials.
And so obviously they have the money.
I mean, you save a little bit from not paying a voice over
actor, but it's, they don't they, it's not money that
(03:58):
matters to them. So I guess I have to assume
they've done the research that this is effective.
But then the whole time during the ad all I can think is why
are they doing this Tiktok voice?
But then the other thing that I think might be the tactic, like
the marketing tactic is that they could potentially catch
(04:20):
somebody's eye faster, easier, keep somebody for longer because
the viewer may not realize untilthe it's the the reel is further
along that it's a company's advertisement.
Yeah, it. Is what it is.
So it's like, it's like, oh, like I'm just scrolling, you
(04:41):
know, regular influencer or regular person reels, reels,
reels for an ad. If it was like a highly produced
ad with a professional voice actor, you would notice that in
your scroll. And it would take you out of it.
Wow. I think you nailed it.
I think that is what it is. Yeah.
I think so too. I hate it though.
I hate. It it is really annoying 'cause
(05:02):
it'll be like there's only one like body snatching.
I feel like a lot of the I get alot of ads for like Spanx
adjacent or Skims adjacent. I feel so snatched right now.
Yeah, yeah. It's like there's only one that
works for me and it's like this weird Siri bot, but then it's a
(05:23):
person trying on the the smoothing shorts or whatever.
Yeah, I don't know. I think it, it makes me angry.
I I guess if they're doing it, it's probably effective for
them, but it just makes me feel like, oh, you think I'm
definitely dumb, which I guess they do anyway, but.
They do, and like, you know, they're marketing to a broad
(05:48):
audience. So like even if they get the
dumb ones, as long as the dumb ones still have money to pay
them, they don't care if they were dumb or not you know?
True. Maybe I am one of the dumb ones.
I actually probably AM. Yeah, I follow for a lot of
Instagram advertising. I've I've gotten better about it
because I've ordered enough stuff from like weird brands
(06:08):
I've never heard of that just got fed to me and realized that
it's all junk that I don't orderit anymore.
But I had to do that, like many,many times before learning that
lesson. Totally.
And then when you get something,whether it's off an Instagram ad
or like anywhere, when you get something that's actually
quality, you're like, whoa. Yeah, which like shouldn't be it
(06:32):
when you paid $50 and then another like 20 for shipping
because it's international and like, you just go down this
rabbit hole and you can't stop at some point.
You know, the thing that gets mea lot of the time, and this is
like a very known marketing tactic as well, is when it's
more expensive, I'm like, oh, well, this one must be good.
(06:54):
This one must be good. You you, there's like perceived
value and then it's still trash.Yeah.
No, at least I burned a lot of money for this trash.
Yeah, I've had that realization recently because we were getting
all new like bedding, like more like duvet covers and stuff.
(07:16):
We wanted to change the color inour room and whatever.
And I was looking for so long atevery like doing so much
research over and over again of every brand that makes like
linen duvet covers. And it's bizarre that the same
thing, it's the same size, it's the same type of fabric.
(07:39):
Like I went down to the materials and description and
read like the percent linen and the percent cotton and whatever
else. They're all the same thing.
Honestly, they all even have thesame colors available.
Like they're definitely just these companies just get it all
from the same manufacturer and the price range is so different
depending on the brand that you choose.
(08:02):
And still, it was very enticing to me to to be like, well, I
want to splurge for the more expensive brand.
Like everybody says they love this brand and everybody says,
you know, and it's more expensive.
So it must something about it must be better.
But every like stat that I couldread and every spec that I could
read showed me nothing as to whyit was better.
(08:25):
I went for like a middle of the road selection and I feel good
about it. It I think it's the same.
I think it's the same. Yeah, a lot of the time it is
one thing that first of all, yes, first of all, freaking yes,
a lot of the time, it is one thing that Justin taught me,
which is helpful really to no one, is that you can have like,
(08:47):
you know, you know, say there's two companies that say the
clothing item is 100% wool, great, 100% cashmere, great.
And they can, that's all they really have to list in the
description. But you can have different
length of the fibers and different one shorter length
(09:11):
fiber of wool will be itchier and it'll fray more and it'll
peel more than a longer length fiber of wool.
But no one is required to list the lengths of their fibers.
So they both. So then sometimes, sometimes
there is a difference in the field, the quality, the
(09:31):
durability, but you just have noway of knowing.
You can't know. Great.
Is this like thread count for sheets?
Like it's different about threadcount.
It's it's literally fiber length.
Length. Like I have a cloth and it's
almost like like for a rug they would call it the pile.
Is that what we're talking? About no, it's like, I think my
(09:54):
understanding we really got to get Justin in on this, but is
like the the the fibers, as I understand, I don't know that
are woven together to make a single thread.
So there's the. Thread count, but one of those
threads I believe has like can be made of shorter or longer
fibers. So shorter fibers will fray more
(10:15):
and they like split out more, almost like split ends sort of.
And they itch more and they fraymore and, and a longer fiber is
more expensive. And I don't know, I, I hate that
I'm even talking about this because I don't have an answer
to it. And it's just like, they can
both be genuinely 100% wool. But then there's, you know,
(10:36):
there's like there the way there's like variety in leather
quality. You can have different quality
of leather, you can have different quality of wool, you
can have different quality fibers of cotton.
It just makes me want to be likeOK I guess I'm going back to
Forever 21 after. All I was, I don't.
Know what to? Do I was just thinking that I
give up? It's like I can part up.
(10:58):
I don't. You got me.
I don't want any part of this. Yeah, that's, this is like
molecular level fabrics and clothing.
Yeah, Selections that like I don't have the capacity for.
No, literally I found this YouTube channel where it's like
a fabric. I was gonna say mixologist.
He might as well be a fabric mixof Albert Scientist and he goes
(11:20):
to like design houses that have in house manufacturing, which is
also rare and has to like interview them about their
fibers and stuff. And like, that's the only way
you can get access to the information 'cause otherwise
it's not available. And I'm like, you know what,
I'm, I'm delighted for you that this is the work you're doing.
And also I can't, I can't be learning about this.
(11:43):
No, I can't. Be learning about, it's good.
To know that this information issomewhere if I chose to access.
Like 3 people have it, yeah. But I won't choose to access it.
Actually, I'll just leave it in that place that it's living in
without me. I don't.
I don't have it. Prince Abby the producer here.
I just wanted to chime in that if you 2 are on a fashion
(12:06):
journey that includes buying more 100% organic fabrics, don't
give up based on fiber length. That's annoying for sure, and I
have plenty of itchy wool that bugs me.
But ultimately, the point of creating more of a demand for
these 100% natural fabrics is tohelp our sweet little earth, our
landfills. Are full of.
Clothes made of synthetic fabrics and when they burn and
(12:28):
breakdown they release microplastics and gross
chemicals into the air. So wool and cotton and other
natural fabrics do not release gross chemicals into the air
because they're made of organic materials like plants and
animal. Fiber so they breakdown like
other natural materials, creating soil and other good
(12:51):
things for the earth. Just a little science for you.
I'm really impressed that you solved this mystery though.
I bet you are correct about the AI.
Thank you and why it's effective.
It's 'cause I've thought a lot about it, though, Like, I've
come, I've come to my conclusions and I've thought a
lot about it. And yeah, and I'm a scientist
and I think that's really the gist of it.
(13:11):
This conversation does make me think though about what you
texted me 'cause we're talking about like, you know, spending a
lot of time scrolling, spending a lot of time buying shit on
Instagram, spending time or not spending time.
Watching YouTube. Researching fabrics.
That I don't like, yeah. Right.
(13:34):
And it actually is a great segueinto what you texted me.
So in last week's episode, we launched our dating series, and
I've been so excited to see how much everyone's loving it.
Yeah. People that the hoes be loving
it. The hoes and I'm one of them.
I'd be loving it and I'm not even dating and I'm listening.
I, I'd be listening and I said something that I thought was
(13:59):
really like dumb in that episodethat you texted me later and
said was not dumb and I and you didn't know I had any feelings
about it. I.
Didn't. But I did, and it was just some
passing comment about how I'm very particular about where I
spend my energy, which isn't dumb in and of itself, but I
feel like the way it came up in the episode, I wasn't like
(14:19):
prepared to really delve into what that meant.
Oh, it was great. I loved it.
I thought it was. I know that it's a big value and
point of focus to you and I feellike I was just like, I think we
could do a whole top a whole episode on like deciding where
to put your energy, where to track, retract your energy and
(14:40):
or even just this casual last conversation about it.
I thought it was a great thing to bring up.
Yeah, I do think it's worth talking about more 'cause I
think about it every day. Like I think it is a governing
principle that lives in my head at all times that like whether
I'm cognitively aware of it all the time, I don't know.
(15:00):
But like it's definitely in the decision tree for me of what
what I do and don't do every single day.
Like the choices I make in my life on how I spend my time in
that decision tree is this layerof like energy preservation.
How do I decide whether it's worth my energy or not?
And I have a lot I could say about it.
I don't know, should I just start?
(15:22):
Yeah, just go. I want to hear like where, what
are the places like right now? You don't have to explain all of
your thoughts around energy. This is also.
This is this is the most woo woo.
We can do it. I was I was thinking the other
day, this is like the most woo woo thing about me is that I I
will say a lot like I'm just like following my energy here or
(15:43):
listen to your energy there. And I think there's a lot of
other woo woo things that I don't like.
I'm I don't really relate to them.
They don't do a lot for me, but some, but this does.
And I don't know if it's actually different from anything
else. But I was thinking that the
other day and I want to hear where are areas like just
recently that you're like, I'm right now I see myself pulling
(16:07):
energy away from this place or towards this place or like
what's top of mind for you? Yeah, interesting.
I've been on the verge of burnout, I would say.
Sounds. Recently and I've been there
before and I'll be here again. So like I recognize it and I
(16:29):
know what it feels like to me. I've just been busy in a lot of
different areas and so I'm having to be thoughtful about
like I need to pull back somewhere and where's that going
to be? And I think 1 area that comes to
mind is like, I don't know. I, I don't want to say my
(16:51):
relationships because that's nottrue.
My relationships are very important to me.
Say it also. And yet at the same time, I
think the amount of energy that I give to many, many
relationships is untenable. Like it's not sustainable for a
(17:13):
person to give this amount to this many relationships when
there's so many other facets of life that like just have to
happen. And I think that that's where
I'm trying to hone in right now.Like I, you know, I have a, a
friend who's like not my closestbest friend, but not somebody
(17:38):
who I like, never talked to either, just somebody in between
who I like and care about. And, but we're not like besties.
And something bothered me that this friend said in a recent
conversation with them. And I didn't even really realize
that it bothered me until like acouple weeks later, like
(18:00):
something wasn't sitting right. And then I thought about it for
longer and then I kind of got tothe bottom of like what it was
and why it bothered me. And then I OK, so like once I'm
there, we're two weeks out from when it actually happened.
This friend has no idea. I'm sure they didn't mean
anything by it. It just sat wrong with me and
whatever. And then I was like at a
(18:20):
crossroads where I was like, do I talk to them about this?
Like how important is it to me to have that conversation and
clear this up versus just knowing that I have clarity and
kind of deciding that like this moment and this friend and
whatever isn't really worth thatenergy right now?
(18:43):
Like, I don't think I have the energy to talk to them about
this. I don't think I have the energy
to hear them out about this. I don't think I have the energy
to potentially be wrong about this.
And like that might make me that, that might say some
negative stuff about me, but it is the truth of where I'm at.
I don't think it does. I think you're not like taking.
You're not like taking action onit without talking to them.
(19:08):
You're just. No, I don't think it's.
I'm just. Letting it pass.
I think every, just so you know,I think everything you're saying
is so relatable. Go on.
Thank you. It was like kind of a profound
thing to realize because I was processing it with Ryan and
being like, why is this bothering me so much?
And we got to it and he was like, do you think you'll talk
to them about it? And I was like, Nah, dog, like
(19:29):
I'm tired. That would take something from
me. This isn't a friendship where I
feel the need to like work through everything that ever
comes up. I don't feel the need for that
in any of my friendships. But especially like kind of
where this friend is to me and what we are to each other.
Like it just doesn't feel necessary or worthwhile.
(19:51):
And like, I kind of got to the bottom of it and I can just sit
with that. And next time I see them, like
hopefully it won't be awkward. If it is a little awkward like,
that'll pass too. And like, whatever, it's just
not a big deal. And I think that is like a
microcosm of how I feel about energy overall.
It's like it's not even saying I'm going to give all my energy
(20:16):
to my relationships and not as much to work or I'm going to
give all my energy to work and not as much to my relationships
or, and I know there's like a million other categories of life
that we could be talking about. I feel like for me, it's like
getting really nitty gritty and for every level of like thing
that's going on and person that you have in your life and
situation that comes up decidinglike how much does this matter
(20:40):
for me to like keep going down that path versus how much can I
can I just like let it go? It's about letting things go, I
think. Yeah.
What do you think in like an alternate universe would have
been the thing that compelled you to talk to them about the
thing? If it was a pattern and if they
were a friend who I felt more ofthe need to be like in lockstep
(21:06):
with. Yeah, yeah.
Like if we were a lot closer andit felt like, oh, we're really
like something's repeatedly going on where I feel
misunderstood or disrespected orjust like diminished.
Yeah. And it's like happened a couple
Times Now. And you're a person in my life
(21:28):
who like, I can't bear to feel that way with.
Like, that's that's where I would talk to the person about
it and pursue that. And there's plenty of people in
my life who fit that description.
But I don't know. You just got to do a trade off
of like, how important is this? How important is it that this
(21:48):
person knows? And I don't know, people write
in a lot about like kind of friend breakups and like, should
I talk to them about it? Should we have like a discussion
about like our friendship is ending or should I just kind of
let it fade out or something in between?
(22:09):
I find myself to be more. It's not that I'll avoid a
conversation. Like if a conversation needs to
happen, I'll have it or if the other person wants to, I will.
But it's almost like if you already know what's what you
feel about it, then like how much do you really need to check
in with the other person? I don't know.
Oh. Yeah.
Oh yeah. I feel like what you said you
(22:31):
were like, I, I didn't feel likeI wanted to talk to them about
it, but I already had clarity about how I felt or what it
meant to me. And I do feel like that's
actually like you already got tothe end goal.
Basically, it's, I feel like it's a combination of, you know,
what it does for you to understand you and relate to
(22:56):
yourself. Plus, how much intimacy are you
looking for with that person? Because you know, it comes up a
lot. I feel like the times it comes
up in a really tricky way is sometimes when people are
looking foreclosure, maybe they've gone through a breakup
of a like a romantic relationship.
You broke up with your girlfriend or your boyfriend or
(23:18):
whatever. And then or they broke up with
you. And a lot of time that person
they write in to us all the time, they are desperate to have
this conversation of closure. But like he won't talk to me and
I just want to have this conversation with him.
And I just want him to understand what I was trying to
do and what I really feel. And like I feel like he didn't
even get me. And it is this really
heartbreaking, like horrible position to be in where you are
(23:39):
seeking to be understood becauseit was a dynamic, you know
someone you were dating. It was a relationship where you
expect ultimate intimacy. However, as soon as you're
broken up, no, you are not owed.Nobody is owed all that
intimacy. But you still want it, of
course, and you still feel it. And then there's this
overwhelming feeling of like, but I still really want that
(24:01):
intimacy. I still really want them to do
the work, to meet me, to understand me, to see me.
But you're broken up any now. And nobody owes that to each
other really anymore if they're not interested in it.
And so that's one moment where Ifeel like it feels important to
be understood and to be seen andto be in lockstep.
But it's no longer the entire premise of the agreement, which
(24:24):
is that we're not together anymore.
And that's what feels so heartbreaking.
It's like people can't they, they, they are not owed you
that. They can't go to jail for
denying you that. And then but it's really, it's a
miserable feeling. And then the other situation I
feel like, yeah, like maybe witha friend breakup or something
(24:44):
where maybe you don't want to see them anymore or even a
boyfriend or a girlfriend. Maybe you're like, I don't need
them to understand me. Actually, I've given up on them.
I've relinquished it myself fromthem.
But you might still want that conversation because you need to
get something off your chest or you need to advocate for
yourself one time. I never advocated for myself.
(25:07):
I never stood up for myself. I never really expressed what I
was going through and what I experienced here.
And it would feel really important for me to do that one
time. And I, I think that's also, I
think that's also really healthy.
And, and the whole thing there is like, it's not really about
changing them. It's not really about getting
somebody else to see you differently or see you a
(25:28):
different way. The transformative process
there. I think it's just I get to
relate to myself differently because I stood up for myself.
I spoke up for myself one time. And so if you're in this
position that you described, it sounds to me where like you
don't have this super deep intimacy expectation.
(25:51):
And you also have already advocated for yourself.
You understand yourself, You have validated your own
feelings. You have clarity on how you
feel, then why would you do the conversation right now if
there's not an ask for it or a need for it?
And that actually makes sense tome.
It does make sense to me. Yeah.
(26:11):
I think it's a probably a good place to be.
It sounds like I like it. I feel like it's a good place to
be. I mean, it's funny because I
feel like sometimes, you know, we've basically built a podcast
on the premise of direct communication.
There's a lot of premises that we've thrown around, but I feel
(26:32):
like one that's come up a lot isdirect communication.
And I very much value that. And I think there's very much a
place for that. But I also equally think that
there's very much a place for letting things go, picking your
battles, like keeping to yourself a little more.
(26:52):
We posted like maybe a month or two ago, I did some sort of
Instagram reel about protecting your peace.
And like that concept being a tricky 1 where like, on one
hand, I agree and on the other hand, you have to like interact
and engage with people in the world around you.
And there's like this balance that we're all walking all the
(27:14):
time of how much do I like say the thing, do the thing,
interact, be proactive. And how much do I like sit back
and just let things wash away? And somebody commented on it a
bit sassy. I'm not trying to call them out.
It was, it's like interesting tothink about somebody commented
(27:35):
and said like you girls are always about direct
communication and now you're kind of saying the opposite or
something. And to that I'm just like, why
does it have to be 1? I think there's so many
situations where direct communication is very valuable
and there's so many situations where why what you're wasting
(27:55):
your energy. Like it is about ultimately the
decision point comes down to energy.
And is it going to be worthwhileto put my energy towards a
direct conversation, or is it going to be better for me to put
my energy towards repairing within myself, Resting,
recuperating, processing, letting time pass, seeing if the
(28:17):
other person does something like, there's two people in the
mix, you know, So there's so many more options than just
like, I have to go talk to them right now about this thing.
Totally. I I just disagree that choosing
not to verbalize something and every moment is at odds with
direct communication. Like good communication is
(28:40):
doesn't just mean talking non-stop.
It good communication as I'm trying to understand it not a
fucking scientist on this, but as I understand it, other things
yes is a lot is a lot to do withtiming and patience and getting
away from urgency. I feel like urgency we've talked
(29:03):
about a lot is like urgency basically ruins good
communication and communication is also like, when are you quiet
and when are you with yourself? And also what are you looking
for from this conversation? Like if you're already at peace
with yourself and you're not asking something more of this
friend, you're not you're not expecting her to show up to your
(29:25):
next hangout and behave differently or deliver in some
different way. You don't have like an unnamed
expectation for her. Now, if you have a a silent
unspoken expectation, then yeah,the you need some direct
communication. But if your decision is just
like, oh, I'm I'm not expecting anything right now.
(29:47):
I'm not interested in putting mytime or mental energy there
right now, then talking to them would be what just to shame
them, just to scold them, Just like, what would it?
What would the the point be? I mean, obviously there's
nuance. Maybe it's hard to talk about
with I feel like I always hear listeners in their head being
like, what about this, What about that?
And like we can't be talking about all moments at once.
(30:10):
But I just don't think that those things are in.
I'm conflict with each other. Yeah.
I feel like it's been one of thethings I'm proudest of recently
and has brought so much peace into my life, is learning to sit
on things. Because then you have more time
to think about it. If it's something that really
(30:31):
needs to be talked about, like the next opportunity will come
up, it's not going to go away. So you'll have time and maybe
you'll be less emotional. I'll be less emotional.
I'm very emotional. Or I'll have my thoughts
together more. They'll have congealed more or
like, I don't know, there's something that really upset me
involving YouTube. I'm this week and right now I'm
(30:55):
in the midst of recording or voice over for a new YouTube
video. And I was like, oh, I could talk
about this in the YouTube video,but these feelings are still
raw. I I think I'm pretty confident
about like what I feel on this topic and what I might want to
say about it, but I only startedfeeling this all like maybe 2
(31:17):
days ago. The feelings are still raw and I
think we both have learned in producing content, making
content, the price that comes with talking about feelings in a
podcast or in a YouTube video when they're too new and too raw
because they're only at like stage 1.
And then when you let them like congeal, I keep using the word
(31:38):
congeal. That's like fossilized.
I don't know if it's the right word, but there's like there's
like two or three or four more stages that they turn into and
mature into that you kind of miss out on if you make content
on it right away. And I think that's not specific
to content. That's like all feelings that
(31:59):
affect all relationships and allconversations.
But it's just really clear, the price you pay, I think when you
put it in content and thousands of people get to respond to it
and you get to see the response and it's a week later and you're
like, fuck, I don't even really feel that way anymore.
I feel 10 different things now. And I think that just like,
(32:21):
yeah, it's become really clear to sit on it.
Just the benefit of letting things.
What is a better word than congeal?
Congeals really only used to talk about blood crystal,
settle, settle, crystallize. Yes, we got to make our
crystals. Yeah, we gotta make our
crystals. This is now we're woo woo again.
(32:43):
I hate crystals. I found so many crystals I move
into my new place and there's somany like crystals left out that
like the. That are yours or that the
people that I'm like what? Are you saying that the previous
tenants left in the backyard? There's like just all these like
Justin was like, oh, I think thelast tenant was a crystal
collector. And it seems very, very clear.
(33:03):
And then I also found him hoarding one of the crystals in
the bathroom. And I was like, Justin, what are
you doing with this? He's like, I liked this one
actually. He said.
I thought it was a cool rock. Yeah, as soon as it's a rock,
it's cool, but when it's a crystal, it's woo woo.
Like. I feel a little as somebody who
has a couple, a tasteful amount of crystals.
Wow. How many is that?
(33:24):
What's the tasteful number? Well, there was a time when I
like moved to Chicago. I was going through a breakup
like, you know, that era of my life.
That's the crystallizing time. I got some crystals.
Listen, I got some rose quartz and I rubbed it, OK?
Like I did what I had to do. Would you rub it?
Rubbed it. Yeah.
(33:45):
You know, nipples, other. Places none you're.
Supposed to rub. Are you supposed to rub crystals
on your body? No, I think you're supposed to
like, hold them. So I have a friend who's really
into crystals, actually. And she is the most unlikely
person to be into crystals. She works at a financial
institution in cybersecurity. She's like a really intense,
(34:07):
like New Yorker. She's not the crystal person.
And yet she's gotten really intocrystals in her 30s, actually.
And she's in a healthy marriage and like it just it's not, it's
not what you would expect. And that's what makes it great.
And she sent me a bunch of crystals for my birthday last
year, like a little pack. And they all, they're all
(34:29):
different. And they came with a list of
like what they all mean or represent or you know, what they
can like unlock in you, I guess.And you're supposed to just hold
them, and then you're also supposed to charge them, like by
the what? Excuse.
Me sun. Excuse me.
Why? There were some in your
backyard. You're supposed to, like, put
(34:49):
crystals in the sun to charge them every so often.
I don't do any of these things with them, but yeah, this is the
extent of my crystal knowledge. I had more to say on that topic,
but whatever. I'm here now.
Yeah. All right.
On whatever we were talking about before we learned we grew.
It's cool. If I haven't made it abundantly
(35:14):
clear yet in this episode, I'm burning out.
I am at capacity. I am spread thin.
I am whatever other idiom there is for the fact that I have no
time, no energy, and I just wantto be outside frolicking and
like life doesn't want me to do that.
I know that you can relate. The one thing that lets me do
(35:37):
that a little bit easier, the one part of my life that
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(36:40):
You everything dumb to tell me. Always my complaint is people
who say niche instead of niche for the word NICHEI have no
judgement on them. I have literally nothing more to
say about them. I just don't like it.
That leads me to my ick which isanother pronunciation issue.
(37:05):
People who say frustrated. Who says that?
The baby people say it. The baby yes, it is the baby way
to say frustrated, but adult people sometimes say it.
I was watching. Frustrated.
Frustrated I was watching some like dumb dating show and
(37:27):
somebody, an adult man said it. No.
He said it. Was he American?
Yes, and he was like supposed tobe the hot one on the show too.
And it, I mean, I didn't find him hot to begin with, but I was
trying to lean in and then that happened and it was over.
The only thing I could think I thought you were gonna say was
one of like your British dating shows.
And it was like, maybe I was like, maybe that's a British
(37:48):
thing. No, I'm.
Frustrated. Yeah.
Oh, I don't like that that it wasn't.
The first time I had heard it. What?
Yeah, that makes my body feel. Bad.
You're not encountering as many dumb people as I am.
Maybe and then that's something I need to.
Find I am. No, I am.
Are you what's happened? Tell me, do you have a dumb
(38:12):
story of a of a dumb person? You know what?
I don't actually don't know. I can't think of any dumb
people. It's probably me.
I don't think I've. If you can't think of dumb
people if you. Can't think of them.
Then it's you. Yeah, I do think it's me.
It's usually me. Here's something dumb though.
OK, this is important, I think I've decided.
(38:33):
Dumb but important. Dumb but important.
So my entire life I have always slept like well I've always
thought I needed like 11 hours of sleep.
I don't ever get that cause no one has that time in the day.
But basically I sleep whatever number of hours.
I can never get up I can never get out of bed.
(38:55):
I'm, I'm always tired, but I, yeah, but I just, whatever you
sleep 8 or 9 hours 'cause like who is time for 11?
That doesn't even make sense. But that's basically the only
way, you know, like maybe once every two months I'd let my
sleep self sleep with no alarm and I would get up after like 11
hours. And I'm definitely felt like
(39:16):
shame and stupid about that. Like, sorry, I sleep so much and
like, I hope people don't think I'm lazy, but I'm, I don't feel
lazy. I feel like I'm going on sleep
deprivation all the time and living despite it, but
definitely always feel like someone's going to judge me for
it. All of my siblings are the same.
Lots of them do sleep 11 hours. We all need so much sleep.
(39:37):
And so it's obviously it was just like, OK, it's some genetic
thing, whatever. And then the other day one of my
siblings was like, oh, Caroline,I was prescribed Trazodone.
Trazodone. It's a prescription sleep aid
also sometimes used, sometimes used for insomnia, sometimes
(39:59):
used for depression. And they were prescribed it for
whatever reason, not important. And they were like, it made my
sleep quality so much better so that now I sleep 8 hours and I
just wake up and I'm done. And they were like, I never
(40:20):
realized that I was just gettingbad quality sleep my whole life.
So I wasn't getting the full R.E.M. cycle.
And that's why I was sleeping solong.
And this was my sibling who saidthis to me, which is why I
actually listened to it because I was like, we probably have
this very similar genetics. And so I tried it and Trazodone,
(40:41):
I'm. So let me first say disclaimer,
I am very, very hesitant to talkabout prescription medications
ever publicly because it is so unique to the individual blah
blah blah blah blah. What works for one person will
not work for another person. It is so specific.
(41:02):
You have to talk to a doctor. And I this, this discovery
actually happened months ago andI haven't talked about it
because I was like, I don't wantto talk about this until I sit
on it for a while. But this has literally changed
my life. It has literally changed my
life. Not habit forming.
It's not like Ambien or Xanax orsomething.
(41:22):
It is not habit forming and you can't get addicted and it
doesn't create a tolerance with,you know, confirm all that with
your doctor. But that's what my doctor told
me and I take it and I for the first time in my life am
sleeping through the night and Iwill wake up in 7 hours without
(41:43):
an alarm. Whoa.
It has literally changed my lifeand I I mean in so much as I'm
getting probably 3 hours of of my day back where I'm otherwise
groggy or would be sleeping and I I like can't get over it.
(42:03):
I've been talking about it everyday day to Justin.
I probably am so annoying but ithas actually changed my life.
That's incredible. Isn't that crime?
Very intrigued. Yeah, I have noticed.
You know, I just sit over here like observing how people are on
(42:24):
my phone. You know, I'm like, oh, they're
texting me a little earlier thanusual.
Or you. Seen that?
You seen that? Shit, like I, I just observed
these things about the people who I talk to all the time and
you're one of those people. And I do think I've noticed like
she's up earlier or or up later.6:00 AM or 6 AM. 7:00 AM OR.
Her do not disturb isn't on as often or as late or whatever,
(42:48):
like just things like that. Very interesting.
Uh huh. Your your impact, your
productivity has shown your ability to.
It's amazing. Reached is improved.
Thank you. Which is probably a negative
side effect. You probably want to change
that, but that's true. Wow.
It has changed my life. It has changed my life.
(43:11):
Therapist or PCP or anything? I think it's your like General
practitioner or like your whatever they're called.
I mean, you have to talk to a doctor.
You have to, it's prescribed. So you have to talk to them and
figure out your own situation. And it's not like it just makes
you need less sleep. But for me, it seems to be that
I was not. I had really restless sleep.
(43:32):
And so I might be in bed a long time, but like you don't get the
R.E.M. cycle, then your body is not restored, blah, blah, blah,
blah, blah. Listen, I don't fucking know
what it's doing exactly, but it's in you.
It's amazing. And I never, it's funny because
I, I think we've talked before about being like morning people,
night people. And I'm not not a morning
person. Like I'm not grouchy or really
(43:55):
slow to get going in the morning.
Like I'm delighted if if I'm like 20 minutes out of bed, I'm
delighted to be alive and I'm instantly doing stuff.
But it is impossible to Get Me Out of bed no matter how much I
slept. And it did make me feel just
like kind of a lazy piece of shit, even though I'm a manic,
always working, non lazy piece of shit.
(44:17):
I'm still a piece of shit though.
But yeah, it has changed my life.
And because it has changed my life, I'm here.
There is something out there. Sounds.
I think it might What? Because here's the thing I need.
I've always said I need a minimum of nine hours and lately
my 9 hours has not been feeling.Yeah.
(44:38):
Like the nine that I thought wasenough.
I wake up and I can't. I'm groggy for like the first
hour of the day. I'm just like in bed waiting for
my eyes to feel fully open or something.
And it does make me feel lazy. Like I feel bad about it because
(44:59):
I already work from home. I'm a very hard working person
who has two jobs and does a lot of work.
Like, on one hand, I know that about myself.
And you know what? Even if we weren't being a hard.
Working person, it wouldn't. Matter.
This isn't Protestant America anymore, OK?
We don't need these puritanical values.
We don't even have to be hard working.
I don't give a shit. But it is OK.
(45:19):
That's a whole other interestingtopic, because even if that is
true, which it is, I think I still value it, you know, for.
Myself totally. And so which I could, yeah, give
a whole separate spiel about that we could talk about another
time, because I've been thinkingabout that a lot lately.
Like the dichotomy of like, I've, I want to be untethered
(45:41):
from like my work and my output and my productivity is my value.
And also, what if I just value that?
I don't know. Anyway, yeah, so I work from
home which already makes my day easier.
You work from home too? Like I can wake up, my alarm is
set at 8:00 AM. Most of my friends alarms are
set at six or seven because theygo into an office.
(46:03):
So that already makes me feel a little bit like a lazy piece of
shit. And then at 8, I still can't get
out of bed and I'm sitting therefor an hour just being like, uh,
like Ryan, get me coffee. Getting through 4:00 alarms,
like I have to set four or five alarms where I wouldn't get out
of bed. Yeah.
And I have been wondering like, what is this just who I am now?
Like is this? It's.
(46:24):
Perimenopause. Perimenopause.
No, it probably is. I've.
Been seeing a lot of informationonline about like how that
starts earlier than you think. It does start earlier, but it's
not at this age. I mean, you know, there's always
exceptions, but those people arejust trying to get money out of
you to buy a new product. Yeah, they are.
It's the they. Are just they're getting you a
gun. They're, I mean, they're getting
(46:45):
me a fucking gun. Yeah.
Anyway, this is a great innovation that you've just
shared with all of us. I'm gonna.
And I am sharing it with the largest grain of salt.
Ask my doctor, yeah. It's part of the reason why I
like, I don't really want to talk about, I don't know, you
and I talked about like ADHD medication and stuff.
And I think because being raisedby medical people, you just know
(47:07):
like it's, it's nothing. Everything is serious.
There's there's pros and cons toall of it.
Nothing is a quick, easy fix. Like remember with it at the
part of the reason I hesitated to talk about this and I wanted
to like watch it for a while wasbecause the way I was feeling
about Trazodone was like, Oh my God, it's it's non habit forming
(47:30):
and it just fixed blah blah, blah.
And I don't see any side effects.
That's how people used to talk about opiates.
They used to be like, oh, it's anon it's a non habit forming.
No negative side effect. I'm alternative to what was it?
What were what I think it was I'm morphine.
Morphine was what they were doing before I think.
(47:51):
And spoiler, that wasn't true. So I'm not going to sit here and
say there's no side effects because that's just not even
possible. Everything is cause and effect.
Everything is cause and effect. There's trade off for
everything, which is why I do think you need to you have to
talk to a professional and you have to take it seriously.
(48:11):
But vetting it for several months now, as well as my
sibling for like a long time now, it is seemed worth looking
into. Some drugs do something for a
reason and I just think you shouldn't take any of them
lightly. Yeah.
Agree agree. I also think though it does make
(48:32):
me, it does make me think that of this other like medicine
related thing I've been thinkingabout recently, which is like
there's so many different doctors and approaches to
medicine and different drugs outthere for different purposes and
whatever. And as I get older and I have
(48:54):
certain like recurring issues, Iguess that I haven't quite
solved yet. Like a good example is skin
stuff like I I have dermatology issues that I have been trying
to figure out for like my whole adult life.
Tried many things they haven't really gotten to like the root
(49:15):
cause and only now at almost 34 years old did a new
dermatologist recommend to me toget on Accutane, which I know is
very well known and lots of people have been on it.
It's a serious, serious drug. So I'm not recommending that
everybody and anybody with skin issues get on Accutane.
(49:37):
But it was really interesting tome when I finally found this
Doctor Who like heard all of theother things that I've tried and
kind of deduced like, it's time for you to do this.
And no one else has ever mentioned it to me before.
And it's almost the same as. That is surprising.
Maybe with Trazodone if you've been having or your siblings,
(49:58):
like in general, if it's been a thing for your family your whole
lives that like you've not needed a lot of sleep, you've
not gotten good sleep. I don't know, like no, but but
there's, it doesn't seem like there's a solution until
suddenly there is, until suddenly like one doctor
realizes like, hey, try this thing.
(50:18):
It's just so interesting to how fickle that is.
Like I know. It's the line between and Then
imagine if it was like much moreserious issues.
It's the line between like ending up with a Doctor Who
thinks of that thing and ending up with a Doctor Who doesn't.
Who thinks of it and like it aligns with their philosophy
that they like to prescribe it or they like to try it like it
(50:41):
really is? Yes.
Yes, it's like overwhelming and anxiety inducing to think about.
I've, I've definitely had that experience with so many
different things. Definitely with when I was, you
know, struggling with depressionlike in my early 20s and there
was so much trial and error. Definitely with like the IBS
stuff. Everyone's just fucking throwing
(51:03):
darts in the dark, and so many of them just turned into this
crazy rabbit hole. And I'm sure the stress of the
pursuit of answers probably makes any condition worse.
Like, name a condition, it'll make it worse.
(51:24):
Yeah, it's really crazy. It's really crazy.
Agree, agree. We end up talking about medicine
a lot. Like I guess just because we're
scientists, I don't know, we endup, we end up on these topics.
It's just the real, it's just what people's lives are made of
is yeah, what's going on with myhealth.
(51:44):
It's, I guess it's kind of funnyto think like this things that
is science and it is science butis still administered by humans.
It's science administered by flawed humans.
And it ends up feeling almost like, I think people end up
taking a lot more stable trust in their astrologer somehow,
(52:10):
somehow that ends up feeling more reliable sometimes.
Which like, you know, it's AII. It doesn't really resonate for
me, but it's not like I'm over here in the world of Western
medicine feeling like it's not afucking crapshoot either.
Like it's like, oh, what doctor you get?
(52:31):
Like, what's their mood? Like?
What do they feel like giving you?
Like, can you get an appointment?
La, la, la. And.
And so it is hard science, but then it's also just fucking
whatever wave you happen to catch that day.
Yeah. So it's it's like, I don't know,
it's perplexing. It's it.
(52:51):
It is. Weird about our whole world that
like just everything relies on human beings.
I mean, I don't know, that's like such a weird, weird
existential thought. We're high, but I do think about
it sometimes, like, I don't know.
(53:11):
Everything you see around you, ahuman put there.
What? What do you mean?
Like these buildings and bridges.
And, you know, it's the reason that like, strikes work, because
there's such a ripple effect. I don't know.
I think that stuff is really fascinating, just how much it
(53:33):
feels like we don't have control, but actually everything
is controlled by us. I lost it.
No, I get. Here I lost it.
No, I got you. I got you.
All right. Let's see what we have going on.
Oh, I was talking to my sister the other day and this blew my
(53:59):
mind. She was like, you know how like
when we were in our 20s and it just felt like we had like all
the time in the world to do whatever and I was like, I
literally never felt that way. No, what are you referencing?
I no, everything was so always so high pressure and I felt like
(54:20):
I was always behind and I'm, I feel like everybody else in
their 20s feels the same way. I like, didn't know what she was
referencing, but it's something I think maybe that people like
to reference when they're older and they like, lie to themselves
and they're like, they 'cause they maybe they look back on the
issues they had in their 20s andthen like with future knowledge,
(54:43):
they're like, yeah, I had all the time in the world, but I
don't think anyone feels that way at the time.
No, OK. I think I just needed validation
that she's wrong. Yeah, it it reminds me of in a
very, very early episode of the podcast, one of my first, if not
my first solo episodes, I've referenced being feeling like,
(55:11):
you know what? Maybe this was even on peeking
my old podcast. But either way, I referenced
being feeling more carefree in my late 20s, early 30s than I
had ever felt before and specifically thinking about like
high school and college and early 20s me.
(55:33):
Like she was so bogged down by the pressures and the what do
people think? And Oh my God, like every little
thing has to be perfect. I have to do perfectly in
school. I have to do perfectly with my
friends. I have to look perfect.
I have to whatever. And I thought that was like a
normal thing to say. Like I thought that was like the
(55:55):
shared experience that kind of as you get older, maybe you
become more carefree or. Oh, I guess I yeah, I would have
thought so too. Yeah, it doesn't mean you don't
have more. There's like plenty more things
that I'm responsible for now, I guess.
But I don't sweat the small stuff maybe as much.
I don't know. Anyway, I said that in this
episode and a friend of mine whoI went to college with and was a
(56:19):
very very carefree seeming person in college at least
texted me and was like loved your episode.
Like it was so interesting to methat you were describing your
experience this way because I feel like the total opposite.
Like high school college me was so carefree and now things are
getting more and more stressful.Which when she said it, I was
(56:40):
like, that also makes sense. Wow, interesting.
But I do think there's like a maybe there's a divide in how
certain people view it for, for themselves.
You know, for me, I feel like everything was, everything was
weighty when I was younger. Everything carried weight and I
(57:02):
couldn't let go of things. And I, yeah, I just like overly
worried about everything. And I I still am a person who
cares about shit, worries about shit, but it's different.
Yeah, that's, I'm, I'm amazed that yeah, I guess I just
thought everyone like had a hardtime in their teens and 20s.
(57:22):
But I guess if I thought, I guess if I think about it, it's
like the thing, the difficultieswe're describing are very like
social comparison type things like am I doing enough?
Am I included enough? Am I keeping up?
Do I have enough time running out of time, having all the time
in the world, whatever. And those are very like compare
comparing yourself to other people.
(57:43):
So I don't some people are enlightened out of that.
It's not a lot of them, but I think maybe if somebody isn't
feeling that stress, my guess maybe would be that they were
just, they felt they were succeeding in most of the ways.
Like maybe the people who didn'tfeel stressed in high school,
maybe some of them were like, OK, they're doing the
(58:03):
comparison, but the calculation outcome of the comparison is
that they're on top. So it's chill or like, you know,
on top in college, whatever the fuck that means to them
socially, you know, academically, whatever that
means. But maybe they feel less on,
like they don't come out as far ahead later on in life whereas.
(58:28):
Interesting. For me, yeah, I definitely never
felt like I was keeping up socially or professionally or
anything in any way. And I think I feel better about
my standing in my life now, but I also just don't do the
comparison as much. Yeah.
Yeah, or. I don't know.
(58:50):
It's like, what issues stress you out?
This is like in addition to whatyou're saying because growing up
and in my teens and 20s, I was the person who was like, my ass
was clenched so tight. I was so scared of like not
doing everything right. I feel like that made it so that
(59:15):
now being an adult who has responsibilities and work
obligations and owning a home and whatever, like these kind of
like tactical stressful things that we all have to deal with,
like that stuff is not that hardto.
Me, it's easy now. You are my, my parents raised
like a little project manager from the time I was like 13, you
(59:39):
know? Yeah, but the thing that's all
that was hard for me when I was organized and on top of my shit
when I was a kid was like the social and the comparison and
the am I cool and am I pretty and am I talented and am I
enough? Am I satisfying my parents
enough? They were like, it's like, maybe
if maybe it's just if you had parents who were a harsher judge
(01:00:01):
than society can ever be. That's it.
I would put myself in that category, yeah.
That's our shared. That's our shared upbringing for
sure. That's what I feel like we're
right on target with. That's when somebody first told
me, a mutual friend of ours, when you and I weren't that,
that close in high school. And I remember a mutual friend
of ours being like, you guys hadkind of similar households.
(01:00:22):
And I was like, yeah, tell me you are.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Anyway, that's.
Really funny. That's really funny.
I think it's true, and I think it's true, Yeah, I think that
might be it. So now it's like the social
comparison stuff gets easier, hopefully for everyone as you
get older. But then I've always been, gosh,
(01:00:43):
this way, this, whatever this way means I'm fine this way.
Butthole clenched. I was born with the.
I was born with the butthole of a diamond.
Oh, beautiful. Thank you.
You're. So welcome.
I think we did it. I think so too.
So let's chill. I'm going to go drink some soda.
Yeah. Doesn't that sound nice?
(01:01:05):
Yeah, it does. A soda like a what kind of soda?
Diet Coke. Diet Coke every time.
Do you ever do a root beer float?
Do you ever do a root beer float?
Oh my gosh, yes I do. Oh my gosh, thank you for
asking. I do.
We did it. I mean, at this point it's been
a couple months, but it still stands out in my memory because
it's an amazing idea to make root beer floats at home.
(01:01:27):
Yeah, I maybe want 1:00 tonight.Go do that, Honey Bunch.
OK, OK. Good idea to me.
All right, I love you a lot. Love you TTYL.
Hi, say something. Hi, hi, hi.
(01:01:50):
Hello. OK, she's back.
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