June 19, 2025 • 65 mins
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Kooks, do you ever find yourself overwhelmed by a missed call from a long-distance friend? Or inundated with requests for in-person hangs? Jess and Caroline talk through feeling crazy for complaining about friendship, even though the social overwhelm is STRONG right now. J offers some tips to a friend who called in to the pod about these very problems, and guides C through her own similar issues.
Plus, the two discuss a new skincare routine, boundaries in friendship, Sherpa guides, and of course, the fact that Hot Not Bothered Summer is back next week! Get your notebook ready…there’s some hot tips in this episode to help you feel sane.
This episode was produced by our prince, Abi Newhouse (@abinewhouse).
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Intro Music: “Doja Dance” by PALA
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DISCLAIMER: All opinions are our own. We are not therapists or health professionals, or professional of any kind, really. Please see your own professional or counselor for professional support. Do your research and be safe!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Actually, the boundaries that feel hardest to enforce are ones
where someone is not being malicious.
She wanted to do something nice for me.
She was. She was offering to do something
like nice for me that she like, had no obligation to do.
And to set a boundary there feltso much harder than someone
insulting me or offending me or trying to take away my rights or
(00:23):
something. Welcome back to Not for
Everyone. We're a podcast hosted by a
hater and a lover and really just your Internet Big Sisters.
I always feel weird saying that because I am an actual big
(00:46):
sister, but oh, I think it givesme more credibility on the
Internet to be the big sister tothe masses.
And you too. You're a big You're a middle
sister, but a big sister too. I know, did I tell you one time
how my actual little sister kindof went on, She went on like a
semi joking rant about people because people always comment
(01:08):
that on my YouTube channel. They're always like, you feel
like the big sister I don't have.
Like it's a very common comment,which is why I was like, OK,
I'll just start saying it if that's how people feel.
And and my little sister Joy waslike, you're my fucking big
sister. She's mine. 100% that's I think
why I needed to give the qualifier today, because in
case. My sister.
(01:28):
Hears this she's very she's I mean like she gives me so much
shit but I know that she she loves me and she wants me to
herself so. Yeah.
I know that, Caitlin. Anyway, we have a little
announcement, right? Just a reminder.
Oh yeah, reminder that coming upnext week, our next episode will
(01:49):
be the second installment of oursummer dating series.
It's the Hot not bothered summerdating series How to Date
Without Losing Your Freaking Mind.
And we're doing 1 per month all through the summer.
And next week's episode will allbe about decoding listeners
(02:10):
biggest dating conundrums. So we've got direct conundrums
given to us by the listeners andwe're going to be hashing it
out. So that's coming up next week.
Yeah, I'm excited to record thatone.
We got a message a couple days ago that was, like, from a
listener who just got into a relationship and was kind of
(02:32):
dubious of whether the dating series would be relevant for
her. And she listened to that first
episode we did a few weeks ago, and she was like, oh, my gosh.
This is applicable to, like, newfriendships and just any new
connections that I'm establishing in life.
It doesn't have to be, you know,strictly dating.
So no. That's so nice.
It was reassuring because I do think so much of it is just like
(02:55):
how you show up as more of yourself just.
Being a person getting in touch with you yeah, OK, you told me
that you have a fun audio clip to play for us and I'm.
I just need to call out so I canignore this the rest of the
episode that I got a laser on myface like 4 hours ago and I'm
(03:16):
Yeah. So if it feels really hard to
look at me right now, that's why.
You told me that before we started recording.
I don't think it looks as bad asyou think.
And I noticed you liking on Instagram a reel that was like
about some specific laser treatment.
I don't know. You know how Instagram feeds you
like in the top right corner of Reels.
(03:37):
Now it has these bubbles of you can see what your friends have
liked. So it took me to that for you
and I was like, oh, interesting.I, I like wonder what this is
and I feel like maybe it's the treatment you just got.
I'll confirm later. I'll send it to you.
But. OK, well it was it was the cool
Cool peel laser, which is a CO2 laser.
(03:59):
As best as I understand it, CO2 seems to is like the gold
standard of skin care, poor refining, skin tightening.
But this one is like a laser andit it does the little wounds on
your skin and it's really good for it's one of the rare and few
(04:19):
treatments that can target like textured skin from acne
scarring, like pitting and ice pick scars and the things that
are like really hard texturally to fix.
And actually in our last podcastvideo, we got so many comments,
people hyping up our skin glow. And I was like, I think that's
(04:43):
because I did one last month. I genuinely.
Going to ask if you've done it before.
Yeah, I did it a month ago and Ithink I already saw like insane
results. There were so many comments
about it. Yeah, I really please let those
be the majority of your commentsfor the rest of time because we
got a. Lot of a.
Lot of compliments and I was going for like last week's
(05:03):
episode. I remember that I was wearing my
hair naturally, like I didn't have time to do it and I got out
of the shower and like let it air dry and it air dries kind of
curly. And some days that looks good
and some days that looks bad andthat.
Yeah, like the the air dry gamble.
Yeah. I like, it was a little frizzy,
but like it kind of looked Beachy and I just tried to go
(05:24):
with it. And so I appreciate that people
validated how we looked that day.
Yeah, I do have a voice memo. So a friend of mine who's like a
friend that I don't keep up withregularly, like we went to
college together. We had mutual friends.
We were always like friendly andin overlapping groups.
But we we've never been like besties.
(05:45):
But I think she's awesome and she listens to the podcast and
she out of the blue voice memoedme which like she's not somebody
that I typically do that with. And I wanted advice on something
and I thought it was so relatable that I wanted to play
it. She said that I could hey girl,
(06:06):
I have have been having this issue lately where I'm like so
overwhelmed with just people reaching out and like, I should
be so happy and grateful that I have a great community of people
who are like wanting to hang outor wanting to catch up or
whatever it is. But I'm finding myself so
paralyzed when like a a like a long distance friend, for
(06:27):
example, will will call and I'llmiss the call, but then I'm just
avoiding it because I think, OK,this conversation is going to be
at least an hour and I don't really have an hour right now.
Or like, alternatively with, youknow, people who not like top to
your BFFS, but just like, you know, for example, people I went
to grad school with where I'm friends with them, but we don't
(06:48):
see each other all the time. And then I always feel like
whenever we connect over text, it feels like it turns into
this, you know, oh, we should hang out.
Oh, let's get coffee, la, la, la.
And it's like, I am so busy right now with work and just
like, balancing this relationship that I'm in.
And I just feel like I don't have mental capacity to do a lot
(07:12):
of things right now. And I do want that to change.
Do you have hacks, tips, ETC forjust like, I don't want to avoid
my friends, but I don't want every text to feel like, OK,
we're going to end up just like we have to make a plan.
And I also once like the day goes by where maybe I like see a
(07:36):
text come in, it's not a good time to respond or I just don't
have the capacity to respond. I then it like sits in my unread
messages for days and days. And then I feel like, OK, a
certain time frame has passed. So now I just feel fucking
weird. How do you get past that shit?
Do you deal with any of this? Am I speaking to the right
person? Thank you.
(07:56):
You're the best. OK, bye.
OK. Wow.
Yeah, very. Adorable and very relatable and
you can like palpably hear the stress in her voice about like
am IA bad person, like am IA badfriend for kind of not wanting
to talk to my friends and I related so much.
(08:17):
But maybe do you have immediate thoughts before I go, 'cause I
have responded to her, she knowsmy thoughts.
But do you have? Yeah.
Yeah, this hits like so hard. I feel like it's, I don't think
I have. It's something I'm in the midst
of fumbling with for sure. And in a way, I'm so relieved to
(08:40):
hear somebody give us permissionto talk about it because I often
feel like I shouldn't or can't talk about this feeling online
when I know there's so many people, especially so many
people who follow our content who are struggling with the
opposite. They're struggling with feeling
lonely. There's in your 20s especially,
(09:03):
so much loneliness, but really throughout life, 30s, whatever,
moving to a new state and peoplemoving all over the country,
your friends leaving. Like, I think there's so many
people. There's just like the epidemic
of loneliness. And so I feel even though I've
been through that for like, overa decade now, that I have a
different problem. I feel like I'm not allowed,
(09:23):
like I shouldn't talk about it because it'll sound, I don't
know. I don't know what it'll sound,
but like, maybe it's not what people want to hear.
Yeah. Or just out of touch or like,
you know, But it is in another way.
I also feel like I hear the samestruggle from most of my
friends. Like I feel like when she
(09:45):
described that feeling of havingthe message sit in your inbox
for days, I'm, I will say weeks,weeks for so many of my friends.
And then almost every time we start texting again.
These aren't my best, best friends, but that next level or
so. And then every time we text,
it's them or I being like, Oh mygosh, I thought I respond to
this or like, Oh my gosh, I'm sosorry for the delay.
(10:08):
It's like almost every text conversation with this level of
friends now starts with someone apologizing for the delay and
for being overwhelmed. And so thinking about that just
right now, I'm just like, it's not just you and me.
It is a lot of people. It is a lot of people.
And I feel like it's, I don't know, I feel like it's a part of
(10:28):
maybe we talked about this a little bit on here before about
how, you know, people move all the time now.
You go to grad school with people and then they spread out
all over the world. You go to college with people
and they spread out all over theworld or high school or
wherever. And people just move so much
more frequently than they did basically in the history of the
(10:53):
world. And so we all have friends all
over the place and people comingin and out of your lives so many
more times. So I feel like there there must
be a growing number of the groupof like that mid tier friend
that you care about, you do wantto see sometimes you don't want
to write them off. You aren't trying to never see
(11:14):
them again or never talk to themor write them off.
But you also don't have the samecapacity.
And even if you're seeing this person once every four months or
once every six months is some ofthese friends to me, if I have
15 of them, that's a lot. That is a lot of catch UPS.
Yeah, it's a lot. Yeah, and catch UPS.
(11:35):
We've also notoriously talked about catch UPS.
I feel like in our shared hatredof them, like as much as it's
kind of a necessary evil in somerespects.
Like if you want to keep people close, there's some level of
knowing about each other's livesand how each other are doing
that not only is required, but like you probably care about and
you probably do want to know at some level.
(11:58):
But it's also so exhausting at the end of a long day when
you've been working and you've been interacting with your
immediate circles and the peopleyou immediately are kind of like
beholden to your partner, your closest friends, your family,
your coworkers, whatever. After all of that to catch up
with somebody who you do like and care about and want to know
(12:21):
about their life and want them to know about yours.
But like, now I have to give youa whole rundown of what my last
three months have been since thelast time we talked.
Like what do you what do you mean?
I'm already struggling to keep up with life and now I have to
give you like a book report on life and it's and it's, I do
feel like it's a lot. Yeah.
(12:42):
And I think another thing that Istruggled with during that time
and I still struggle with, but maybe less so like I do, I do
actually, by the way, we're talking a lot about the problem.
I do have a couple of tips, solution, ish type of things
that we'll. Get to but I just.
Want to validate the problem so much because I agree like it's
(13:02):
pervasive and it's hard to talk about.
You don't want anybody to hear you talking about it or and seem
like, oh, is this are they talking about me and do I not
matter to them And like they're kind of complaining about our
friendship. So there's that aspect of it
too. And I do feel like something I
struggled with was feeling like I had certain friends who were
in this like ring where I don't talk to them every day and they
(13:26):
were a lot better. They are a lot better at
reaching out to me than I am at reaching out to them.
Like it felt like they were chasing me around and I didn't
have the capacity. And the more it was like the
more that I heard from them, the, the more I had a missed
call from these types of people,the more I didn't want to call
(13:47):
them back because it just started to feel like, like I
don't have the capacity. Like, don't you get that?
Like, which is a it's like feelsterrible to say because if I
think about these people, I loveand respect them and I want them
in my life. But there is a dynamic that I
feel like came through in my friend's voice memo of like, I
(14:07):
like I'm avoiding them now. Like it feels it didn't start as
avoiding, it started as I just don't have capacity.
And now I'm anxious. And now it's a thing.
And it snowballs. And then they call you again and
you don't have capacity that dayeither.
And it just keeps snowballing. And then it starts to feel like
you're running away from them and they're chasing you.
(14:28):
And then that's like not a dynamic that you want in your
friendships. And I've been in that kind of
pattern with some friends and I don't even think they, like,
they probably don't see it that way.
But on my end, being anxious about owing them a call.
And then, Oh my God, they calledme again.
I still owe them a call back. Oh my God, they they're texting
me and I'm giving them less And I I owe them a feeling like I
(14:51):
owe a. Response.
The other thing I feel I've had I I literally was thinking about
this today with a friend who texted me and the text started
with, Oh my gosh, I thought I responded to this.
I'm so sorry. It's such a delight, blah, blah,
blah, blah, blah. And we were making plans, you
know, to meet up. And I was thinking about the
fact that she has initiated plans for us to hang out maybe
(15:16):
the last 20 times we hung out. And and that made me so
uncomfortable that she might think, I mean, I'm not
initiating with her. And every time she brings
something up, I agree and I I'm happy and excited to see her,
but I am not going to initiate in between.
I won't even initiate text conversations with people
(15:38):
anymore because I'm like, well, what if they want this to be a
15 minute text conversation and I don't have the time.
So I found myself like I and I don't.
I hardly ever initiate anything with any of my friends which
must feel which absolutely givesthe wrong message about how I
value them. But if you have 20 or more mid
(16:04):
range friends you're keeping up with in a year and they all
reach out to you to do even a once monthly catch up, I do not
have the capacity to initiate more catch ups and flood it
more. It's like I'm now dependent on
limiting it to the amount of times that they reach out to me.
(16:24):
I'm yeah, I don't know. I don't know.
I and I, I still feel really nervous saying all of this.
I'm for people who are like maybe not experiencing the same
thing. So I hope there can be, I hope
(16:45):
there can be understanding for like, I feel so self-conscious
talking about this in case somebody I don't know labels it
ungrateful. Because I, I guess I imagine to
me, I think a correct analogy would be like, if you're talking
to someone who's unemployed and they've had a really, really
hard time getting a job. And then you talk to someone
(17:06):
who's like working 6 jobs and the person working 6 jobs is
going to have complaints too. And to the unemployed person, I
can understand why they don't want to hear those complaints.
But for the person with six jobs, I also know why they're
losing their fucking minds. And I do think it can be both.
(17:26):
But I, I do feel really, I'm like scared of criticism just
talking about it. But the, the truth is, it feels
very overwhelming to me. It feels very scary to think
that first of all, I'm overwhelmed personally.
Second of all, it feels scary tothink that my, the people I care
about, I cannot feel the way that I value them because
(17:50):
there's not enough hours in the day.
And and then, yeah, like trying to schedule all these things in
knowing I'm not showing up fullypresent because in the meantime,
I'm not getting downtime and recharge time or alone time or
like I don't get to go to the gym this week because I'm
overwhelmed. Like it.
It does feel completely untenable and like it will be
(18:15):
damaging relationships actually,which is not the fucking goal.
I'm not trying to ghost people. I think that's exactly why I
hope that like Grace, can it be extended for this conversation
because it's coming from a placeof like wanting to show up for
people and wanting to be a good friend and worrying that you're
not being a good friend, but also wanting to take care of
(18:38):
yourself and listen to yourself when you are at capacity and
prioritize your needs, but also show people that you care.
Like I I hope that that's relatable no matter what part of
life people are are applying it to.
Like you gave the job example. I feel like the same thing goes
for relationships. Sometimes I feel weird about
(19:01):
talking, you know, we're to people who are in long term,
serious, healthy relationships at this point in our lives.
We talk a lot about our past with other partners and like
hardships that we've been through and dating and all of
that. But at the same time, right now
we are both happy and good and Ihave some self consciousness and
(19:22):
self doubt around talking too much about that.
Does it seem like I'm bragging or it's tone deaf for people who
don't have it? Or on the flip side, if I bring
up problems, because we also talk about challenges that we
might have with our partners or communication issues that we
have to navigate with them or whatever, am I seeming like I'm
(19:42):
complaining about something thatI know so many of our listeners
and people in my life want and are craving?
So I just think there's no way to avoid that.
Like what what is going on in mylife right now is not what is
going on in every life of every person.
And that doesn't mean that it's not valid to talk about like, I
(20:03):
think comparing pain and like. Comparing the size, you know,
like, oh, there's kids who don'thave food.
Yes, I I know I'm very upset about it and also I am in my
life and so anyway, I, I definitely.
I know you're right. I know you're right.
I relate. To the stress about it, but I do
think it's important to talk about because this is the stuff
(20:24):
that me and my friends talk about most of the time.
And a lot of my friends and people, like my friends listen
to this podcast and like we're constantly talking about at this
point in our lives, at least in our 30s, maybe it's specific to
this decade. But like, how do I, how do I
balance all of the things that are on my plate?
(20:46):
I've arrived at a place where I love all the things on my plate,
and yet there's just too many ofthem and I can't do them all in
a day or in a week. What?
Do you do, Jess? I'm, I'm really struggling with
this and I don't think I'm good at like, I really need your
tips. Yeah, I will say if, if one of
(21:07):
these people are listening or even if they're not, if I don't
want to spend time with someone,I don't There's plenty of people
that I have politely ended the relationship with.
I wouldn't even call it a friendship because, you know,
maybe we tried to hang out, it didn't work.
We don't have that much of A connection.
Not a bad person, but like, if Isee you even once every, I have
(21:29):
friends I see like once every five months.
That's somebody I like. That is someone I like a lot.
I'm not doing that as charity work.
That means I really like you. So I don't have a problem like
cutting it off if we don't have a connection.
But I'm, I'm really struggling. I What do you do?
Yeah, I mean, I struggle with this too, but I think I've
(21:51):
figured out a couple of things that help.
And I am really lucky that I have a lot of friends that I've
picked up over the years and they live in a lot of different
places. So there's all sorts of ways
that I do and don't keep in touch with them.
I think something that helped merecently was there was this
(22:12):
article, I might have mentioned it before on the podcast, an
article that came out about a year ago maybe that was like it
was about the 8 minute phone call.
And basically it's this theory or premise that just talking to
a friend for 8 minutes can like drastically improve moods.
And it doesn't require like a whole long catch up to get that
(22:37):
kind of like hit on both sides of like connection and support
and just like fun and whatever, whatever you need from your
friends. And so I actually, when that
article came out, I can link it in the description of this
episode. I sent it to a few friends,
specifically friends who are in this category of like, I wish we
(22:57):
caught up more. We don't.
Maybe I feel like you chased me for it sometimes and I'm not
available. And I feel like the bad friend I
was just very forthcoming with like look at this article.
This is really cool. I feel like we should try it.
Like I know that I've been Mia and I don't want to be, but I
(23:17):
also know that we're both reallybusy.
What about the 8 minute phone call?
And like I've started to implement that with certain
friends, just not on any, you know, specific schedule, but
like giving the permission to both of us that we don't have to
catch up for a long time to be able to maintain our friendship.
(23:38):
And that's worked really well. So these are people.
These are people who don't live in your city of Chicago.
These are people where it's not an option to see in person.
Yes, yes, that's right. OK, cool.
OK, cool. Yeah, yeah, this is mostly for
long distance friends. Another thing I've.
The thing that gets hardly long distance is like the more you
(23:59):
put it off, the less I feel likean 8 minute phone call is
respectful enough. You know like if we haven't
talked in months and I love you,then I feel like OK, 30 minutes,
40 minutes. It's never 30 minutes.
It's usually an hour, you know what I mean?
So I feel like that's what always gets me.
But maybe I should just say that.
(24:21):
Like do I send this article to people?
Yeah, it's kind of like working out.
Like I tell myself that it's better to go walk on the
treadmill for 10 minutes than tonot do it at all.
And I feel like it's the same like, and I hate to make that
comparison and make it seem likeit's something I dread to talk
to my friends. But in the context of this
(24:42):
conversation, when we're talkingabout how much we have on our
plates, sometimes it does feel at the end of the day like
something I dread. It's like in my heart I want it,
but like physically in my body right this second, I don't want
it. Not in my body, not in.
My body. Not in my body, never.
In my body. And so I don't know, like, to
(25:03):
me, I have found even a short conversation scratches the itch
for both sides and people seem to respond well to it.
You don't necessarily have to send this article.
You could also just be like, hey, I'm so busy.
I, I can give you a call on my walk to the grocery store today.
I know it'll be quick but like are you down for like a 5-10
(25:26):
minute? That's nice.
That is nice too. Because if I feel like it's
better, I'm thinking about like if I'm proactive about it rather
than if they asked me to call and I'm like, daddy's busy.
He can give you 8 minutes. But if I initiate, which is also
part of my goal is to be able toinitiate it more and be like,
can I call you? Just say hi, miss your face 5-10
(25:48):
minutes, cool. Yeah, exactly.
Great. I also think it can be helpful.
And this, again, this sounds a little brutal.
This is like my corporate side coming out.
But to give an end time like I've had, this is on the
networking side of things. I have a lot of conversations
all the time with people who areyounger in their.
(26:09):
Conversations all the time. All the time.
I'm always having conversations.I love to talk to people who are
younger than me getting started in their careers and like
offering mentorship or whatever.I and I and I genuinely don't
pursue it. It just comes to me.
I think I make it known that I like that and people refer
(26:29):
people to me and I just end up having a lot of these types of
conversations where I'm helping somebody figure out like, oh,
you should apply for these typesof jobs or this is what I did
when I took a year off or whatever.
And so I have found in those conversations, I love having
them. And I say yes to most of them.
But sometimes people, whether they're just not thinking about
(26:50):
it or they're being a little bitselfish with their time, I'll
say I can do. I can do 1:00 PM.
And they put an hour block on the calendar.
And it's like, dog, this is a 30.
Minute conversation you should know.
That this is a 30 minute. Conversation.
And if I make it an hour, that'san extra bonus.
I'm extending, but it's going tostart if it's going to start on
longer 20-30 minutes. I liked you.
(27:11):
Yeah. Yeah.
So I have gotten in the habit ofmaking sure that I say the end
time I can do from 1:00 to 1:30 on this day.
And I feel like a similar tacticworks for friend calls.
It's like I can talk until 2:00 and then I have to go do
whatever I have to do. I don't know, Like, I do think
(27:35):
you have to be clear with the amount, the capacity that you
have and be present while you'reon the call.
Like make sure that that's a time when you can actually talk
to your friend and be present and enjoy the conversation.
But also be like, yeah, that's all I had today.
I'm glad we got it in. Like, I think there's just a
(27:57):
realism that has to be applied because the alternative is that
you don't talk at all. So what's better, you know?
Most people, I think most peopleactually get it.
It's funny how I build up this like this demand from people
that they haven't ever actually stated to me and I'm like, they
they want an hour long phone call.
(28:18):
You know what? Most of the time when I get on
these calls, they're ending the call on me.
I'm just too nervous to end the call.
So I will let it go into oblivion until they're like,
that's enough of you, that's enough.
And no, yeah, I just need to get, I need.
I'm not very assertive with this.
OK, I've that's my setting an end time before you're on the
phone. I do two to two O 3 yeah.
(28:43):
Or is that too much? You know somebody that I
mentioned her at the very beginning of the podcast, my
sister calls me a lot and I callher as much as I can, but
probably less than her. And I definitely call her back
when she calls me or I try to and whatever.
It's my sister. We have ongoing.
We're talking every few days andI made it a thing in my head.
(29:07):
I think I realized this recently.
Anytime Caitlin would call me and I missed the call, I then
felt like I was on a countdown of like, OK, I got to go.
I got to call my sister back. And if I don't do it in this
amount of time, I'm a bad sister.
She's going to be mad at me. I'm going to hear about it.
She didn't really set this precedent.
I mean, my sister can be a little intense, but she didn't
(29:29):
honestly did not set this precedent.
I made it up in my head and I realized that I was putting
myself on this countdown and usually I would call her back in
a reasonable amount of time, like within 24 hours.
And she's just like, hey, whatever.
Like what are what's up? Like there's nothing specific.
She doesn't really give a shit. Like, you know, she knew we're
(29:49):
going to talk. I love.
Your Caitlin impression. Like she's like, what do you
want? Like.
That is a pretty good Caitlin impression.
And I think I just at some pointit clicked like, oh, she's not
calling me and she's not starting the same countdown and
like stopwatch that I'm startingto call her back.
She's the type of person that actually, when she's on a walk
(30:12):
or when she's in the call in thecar, she calls a bunch of
friends and whoever picks up picks.
Up that is most of them. That is most of those calls, I
think. And then I do the thing where
I'm like, they must be so pissedand disappointed that I didn't
pick up. Whereas personally, if I call
someone, even when I'm a mood and I want to talk to somebody,
I don't. If they don't pick up, I don't
(30:33):
think about it. I just.
I love it I. Love when they don't.
First of all, that's the best case scenario.
I called you, you got the missednotification and I'm off the
hook. That's the best you see.
That I care about you, but we didn't have to interact.
But even if I wanted to get you on the phone, even if when it's
like I'm kind of in a crisis or like a really and lonely or
whatever, there are the moments where I'm like, I really would
(30:54):
like a call and I'm and I never am thinking fuck them for
turning it down. It's like you just go on with
the rest of your life. And then I have this idea that
other people don't have the samerichness to their life.
Like they're just sitting at home thinking about how I didn't
pick up their call. They don't even remember that
they called me. They're probably so happy I
(31:14):
didn't pick up and they know. They're on the phone with
someone else already. I've literally started to
visualize to like get this anxiety out of me.
I visualize that as soon as I they didn't pick up that call,
they called someone else and they got on the phone with them.
And right now, as I'm stressed about it, they're talking to a
different friend and they don't even Remember Me anymore.
(31:35):
I know they don't even. Remember Me?
But they called me. Please forget me.
Please forget that you knew me A.
Lot of times people are just, they're on their way to do
something. They're like, I have the energy
to talk to someone on the phone.They give them a call and then
the person on the receiving end,if you're like me, you're like,
Oh my God, they like they need me.
It's just self important, you know it's.
(31:55):
So delusional. OK.
Next question? OK.
What do you do about the in person shit?
Hear me out, there are a lot of ways that picking a doctor,
finding a doctor at all, findinga Doctor Who's going to treat
you well and have time for you and be available when you need
(32:18):
them and hopefully live nearby and like respond to your
messages. That sounds a lot like dating,
doesn't it? Or any relationship really.
Sounds a lot like friendships. And often times we're forced to
settle because it's really hard to find a decent fit in the
first place. That is until Zocdoc.
(32:39):
Zocdoc is a free app and websitewhere you can search and compare
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found through Zocdoc. It is reliable.
No matter where I live, no matter what type of doctor I'm
(33:00):
looking for, I'm able to get an appointment quickly and just
having that there for me whenever I'm looking for any
type of care has honestly helpedme repair a lot of my trust
issues. Stop putting off those doctor's
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That's zocdoc.com slash not for everyone. zocdoc.com/not for
(33:25):
everyone fully spelled out. So like the I'm dying kind of
second ring friends that you can't see as often I.
(33:48):
Can't. I can't even see my best friends
as often as I want to. I can't even see my best friends
as often as I want to. And then, yeah, any ring of
person who's like I, Jessica. It's crazy, I know.
I haven't figured this one out. I do think something that helps
(34:10):
is that I really like mixing my friend groups and like bringing
a lot of people together. So I'll do a couple times a
year, like for my birthday and around the holidays I'll do like
a I'll host a party or a BBQ or whatever and I'll just invite
everyone and I feel like it. Do that.
But no, no, no, it's not. I do that and then every single
(34:32):
one of them says I want us time.We need to catch up.
Oh sure, I don't know, I haven'tfigured this one out.
I think I do totally agree. Like, I don't even get to spend
time as much time as I want withmy best friends and my favorite
people. Yeah.
And so that does always run through my head when I get when
(34:55):
somebody else reaches out and islike, hey, we should do
something. I'm like, I'm.
I'm thinking about is that really what I want to spend my
time on if I haven't even seen Kai?
Yeah. I don't know.
That's a hard one. I can share what I'm talking,
what I'm doing right now. I'm still obviously overwhelmed,
(35:16):
but these things have at least helped.
And I'll say right now, I don't know, maybe they're going to
sound brutal, but I'm just trying to survive out here.
So the first one is doing, I feel like doing morning coffee
always guarantees that it's shorter because people have to
go work. Like if if we meet in the
evening, it can easily be no onebelieves or like it doesn't
(35:37):
occur to anyone that I work, I will work till like 1:00 AM.
And so I'm working if we hang out in the evening, I'm, it's
very likely I'm going to go homeand edit later.
But that's not people just thinkyou'll hang out for three or
four hours, whatever, which I would like to do.
But I feel like morning coffee helps a lot.
And I do actually love getting up early and like getting a kick
(36:01):
in my butt and having social time in the morning.
I, I wish I did it more. I love that I feel like it's
just fun to be like see a girlfriend at like 8:00 or 9:00
AM. Actually really love that when I
can make myself do it. And then the other thing, this
one not maybe does sound brutal.I don't know.
I'm very judgmental of myself with this but I'm I can't live
(36:24):
and I'm is just kicking. Just not scheduling with
urgency. I've noticed that anytime anyone
asks my time of me IA immediately assume I have to
accept and assume I have to accept for as soon as possible.
Like if I have time in the next two weeks I schedule in the next
(36:47):
two weeks, that's as soon as possible for me.
And I've noticed I have this onefriend who she's also super
busy. She's super social.
I know that we probably occupy asimilar level of friendship for
each other, but she's also good at reaching out and she'll often
reach out to hang out. And then I asked, sure, what's
your availability? And she'll point to like a month
(37:10):
ahead or something. And I've never been offended by
that. But I also never, it never
occurred to me to do that. And I realized by with those
people scheduling a month ahead,I guess it in my head I was
like, oh, is that rude? Or like, oh, I could dig out
sometime at 6:00 AM on a Tuesdayor oh, that's just kicking it
(37:32):
down the road and everything's going to build up anyway.
But it doesn't because it's spaces the Hangouts longer
because I found like to get verymathematical about it.
If I immediately scheduled to hang out with them next week and
then our usual cadence is every three months, that means I have
one next week and I have one in a week and three months.
(37:54):
As opposed to if I kick it down a month, then I have one a month
from now and 1 five months from now.
You know what I mean? Because it'll be 3 months plus a
month, whatever it is. So it I feel like there is
actually a very, there is like more benefits to scheduling way
(38:16):
farther out. And it also allows me, it's like
I get to accept the invitation. I do want to see you.
I'm agreeing to see you. We're putting a firm date on the
calendar and there's a month till that time.
But in that month, they know I want to see them and we have
something on the calendar. And then I don't know, I think
in my head it feels like this shouldn't make a difference, but
it really, really does. And people do it to me all the
(38:39):
time. So I don't know why it took me
so long to catch up that like it's that feeling of urgency
again. I think it's the anxious, it's
the anxious girl in me that feels like I have to please
people immediately. I'll please you in a month.
Oh, I'll please you. Oh.
I'll please you. You're going to be begging for
me to stop. I agree with both of those.
(39:00):
I have like yeah, I think I haveadd-ons for each.
So on that second point about like scheduling out further, I
totally agree. And something that has helped me
do this is that I have started, I think I've just become more
selfish with my time and I've given myself permission to do
that. And so if I'm looking at my next
two weeks, which of past versionof myself would have tried to
(39:24):
squeeze it all in in the next two weeks, if somebody texts me,
I'm trying to get them in here as soon as possible.
With that urgency, I now scope out my two weeks in a way where
I have designated nothing days, down time days, spontaneous
days. So if I'm looking at like a
weekend, let's say a friend could text me today and say,
(39:48):
hey, we should get together soon.
And I could look at my this weekend and my next weekend and
be like, oh, I actually have free Saturdays, but maybe I have
plans that Friday and, you know,something with Ryan's family
Sunday. And maybe it would really
benefit me to have a Saturday tokind of do nothing, get
organized around the house, do aworkout, like have my ugly time.
(40:12):
And so I won't offer those up. Like, I think part of it is just
knowing that just because I havea free day or free time doesn't
mean I need to offer that up. They can't see my calendar.
They don't know that. Who the fuck is doing my laundry
then? Like when and when I get those
free evenings I'm doing errands and chores.
Yes and I'm getting to chill like it is.
(40:33):
It is a it is an an infuriating feeling.
Like if I, if there's, there's exceptions, if it's like
somebody's birthday, I'll, I'll do multiple things in a weekend,
you know, if it's some bigger event or something for a really
close friend or whatever. Of course there's those times
when it's just busy and I want to be doing all those things and
they have to be happening in that like tighter span of time.
(40:56):
But I'd look at my calendar in away now where I build in
downtime and I protect it as much as possible.
And if that means we're not hanging out for a month, then so
be it. I'm, I'm busy on those days
because I need this time to myself.
And they don't necessarily have to know that that's what it's
for. But I'm also pretty comfortable
telling people if they were to, you know, ask, not that they do.
(41:19):
They really don't ask. Nobody.
What are you doing then? That would be wild.
Why? What are you doing all week?
It's like avoiding you. I'm avoiding you.
But I would be very comfortable to say I've been so busy that I
actually protected that weekend as like me time and somebody I,
anybody like, keep in my life should respect that.
Yeah, yeah. I have started doing Oh, sorry,
(41:40):
sorry, go on. Oh.
No, go ahead, go ahead. I was talking for.
A while I was gonna say, I thinkmy version of that is I've
started on the weekends looking,I always look ahead at like my
work week. What do I need to be, You know,
how do I need to pace out the work week?
But I've also been looking at myevenings and social calendar and
being like, OK, do I have four days blocked off already?
That's my Max. I am not going to be enjoying
(42:01):
this week. I'm not going to be getting to
the gym. I'm not going to have clean
laundry. I'm not going to have groceries
in the fridge. I'm not going to have sanity.
I'm going to be snapping at Justin.
I'm going to be snapping at every obligatory social event.
If I have like more than three or four days schedule up.
And I do usually have to like, so look at the week ahead over
the weekend and then like lock it down and I just have to tell
myself ahead of time. No, Caroline, no, you say no.
(42:25):
You say no to people, you say no.
It's hard. I'm not healed in this way like
this is. I don't think I'm hard.
All the time. I'm not.
The other thing that you mentioned was the breakfast or
the coffee dates first thing in the morning, which I really like
that idea and it is such a like restorative way to start a day
(42:47):
to see a friend. Like you just feel so much more
grounded. It's really.
Nice the rest of the day. It's a totally different feeling
than ending your day when you'relike you've stared at your work
screen for 8 hours. Like it.
It actually is really, really nice.
Yeah, it's. The same as doing again.
I'm going to compare it to a workout again.
I like working out, actually. If I do it at the right time,
yeah. I wish I was working out.
(43:08):
Yeah, in the morning I feel likeit has such a better impact and
like starts, it's like you have to go, you wake up and you have
to go and you don't have any excuses.
By the end of the day, I have like 15 excuses that I can get
myself out of these things. But the other thing is that if,
if doing like a morning coffee isn't realistic for you,
(43:28):
something that's been working for me too is like going to
specific events with friends. So rather than let's go get
dinner or let's get drinks and it's like a catch up, you know,
across the table from each otherand we could end up staying for
hours and hours. I'll do an art class with a
friend or I'll go to some a comedy show with a friend.
(43:51):
Like find something that you're interested in doing.
And a lot of times it's something that maybe I'll sign
up for regardless, just to do onmy own.
And then if a friend, this happened recently, I signed up
for an art class because I've been trying to incorporate a
little more just like creative time that doesn't have to have
like an output for me, which I've talked about a little bit.
(44:12):
And so I signed up for an art class that seemed cool to me by
myself. And then a friend texted me and
was like, hey, we should get together soon.
And I was like, oh, actually I signed up for this art class.
Do you want to come? Do you want to sign up for it
too? That's nice.
And it's a nice way, but if theysay no, that's fine, I was going
to go anyway. But if they are like if they're
not available that day, whatever.
(44:33):
But it has worked out where one of my friends and I did that a
couple weeks ago and it was likea 2 hour contained thing.
It was something I wanted to go to whether she came or not.
We ended up like really enjoyingit and getting to do something
with our hands. We did a little bit of catching
up during like the times in the class when we could talk, but
there were also times when we were paying attention to the
(44:54):
instructor and it just like was low pressure.
And then at the end of the two hours, we said bye and went
home. And so you don't have to make it
a whole long catch up that coulddrag out.
You could find some little thingto do.
It could be even without paying for an art class.
Go for a walk. Like you can only walk for so
long. Let's go for a walk right after
(45:17):
work before dinner. You could even cap it.
Let's go for a walk after work, before dinner.
That's 5:00 to 6:00. You got an hour, squeeze it in.
You know, like it doesn't alwayshave to be a whole thing.
We don't have time for a whole thing I.
Don't know what's wrong with me.I'm so horrible at this.
I do. I do think I'm, I think that's
first of all, that's a really cute idea of just like you.
(45:38):
So you book the art class on your own, assuming you'd go
alone, and then if someone reaches out, you're like, I got
a trap for you, meet me in this arc.
Yes, I set this trap for. You and they're delighted.
They're delighted by my chat andit's.
Such a more fun way to hang out and you know, I'm so tired of
the catch up. And one thing I guess I did
slide into recently was, yeah, not signing up for a thing, but
(46:05):
just doing. I don't even know what you would
call this, but I had always avoided kind of doing interior
design activities with my friends because to me I'm like,
well, that's work. I'm doing that.
I'm working all day now I'm going to come work more or like,
(46:25):
if I'm doing it, should I be filming it?
Should I find a way to make thisa video like I, I have to get
this job done like it it. I was really resistant to it.
I'm and then maybe it started like with Abby, Abby and I had
our editor, we hadn't seen each other in for a bit and she
(46:45):
wanted help maybe with like a gallery wall.
And for whatever reason, I was like, OK, let's just go do the
gallery wall. And I still had this idea in my
head that like, oh, it's going to, it's going to be like work
and it's not really a friend catch up and blah, blah, blah.
But then it was like so much more fun.
It was so much fun and it was somuch more fun doing an activity
together. And it's something I love to do.
I don't know why I just, I really had this block in my head
(47:08):
about like, like, will I do thatfor work?
And it's very stressful often for work when I have deadlines
and I have to film it and I haveto edit it and I have to get
approval and blah, blah, blah. And I think I just had it so
solidified in my head as something that would be
stressful that I forgot. It can be very fun with a
friend. And it was like the most fun way
(47:28):
to hang out. And then I started doing more of
that. Like my friend Ashley, we've
been working on a room design for her, which will be a video.
And it will, it is part of work.But now when we hang out and she
loves to catch up, and I do loveto catch up with her.
You know, I bring my laptop and we work on the design a little
bit. Or I bring the laptop over to
(47:50):
her place and she makes dinner and I'm pulling up, you know,
furniture samples for her. And it just feels like a much
more colorful and textured way to hang out.
And I don't know what my advice actually is here, but I think I
just had this clear separation about like, these are things you
do when you hang out. These are things that are work,
these are things that are projects, These are things that
(48:12):
are fair favors. And like, I'm, I don't know, I
think just trying the things I was resistant to.
Maybe that's the advice. Yeah, and also we said this in
our Hot Not Bothered episode forMay and it was relating to
dating. But I think that it's relevant
here too, like setting the tone and setting the culture for what
(48:36):
is going, what the norm is goingto become between you and these
friends. So for example, like as you were
talking and just talking about kind of normalizing, like let's
do other things while hanging out.
It doesn't always have to be thedeep face to face catch up.
I was thinking about friends of like, friends of mine who I
(48:58):
maintain relationships with, butI don't necessarily see all the
time, whether they live in Chicago, where I live or whether
they live somewhere else. And I thought of Instagram,
which, like, sucks because it takes over our lives.
But at the same time, there's something to be said for like
just having that like open dialogue back and forth with
(49:20):
certain people where you're sending them a meme that you
thought that made you think of them or a video that made you
think of them. Or maybe on Instagram, an event
pops up and it made you think ofthem.
And I feel like because I do that with a lot of people, as
weird as it is, like, I hate to give social media that much
credit, but I I'm the type of person that like, if something
(49:41):
reminds me of you, I'll send it to you, even if we haven't
talked in a year. And I feel like because of that,
it normalizes that like my friend who sent me this voice
memo, who I haven't talked to ina year, probably sent me this
voice memo and there was no preamble, there was no catch up,
there was nothing. It was, hey, I thought of you
because I have this problem and I'm just dropping in to leave
(50:04):
you this voice memo and see if you could talk about it.
We had like a really cool, thoughtful conversation back and
forth on Voice Memo for like 30 minutes.
And then we probably won't talk again in a meaningful way for a
while. But because she's someone that I
like kind of keep up with peripherally and I've just set a
tone and a culture with of like there's an open line of
(50:24):
communication here. You don't.
I'm not blocking you out. I'm not blocking.
You out and you don't have to show up and like ask me how I am
every time and ask for an updateon my life like it's OK, Just
get to the meat of it. I feel like I don't know exactly
how I've established that with alot of people.
I think it's a combination of a lot of the things we've been
talking about, but like setting that tone, being the one to do
(50:48):
it first can really help. Like just popping in with people
and skipping the catch up and just being like, Hey, I thought
of you because of this thing or hey, I'm having this issue.
I I wanted to know what you thought about it.
Just skip. Just skip to the, to the to the
meat of it and I start. With a complaint, I feel like
you just start complaining aboutsomething and I feel like
everyone's, everyone knows how to fall in line.
(51:12):
Yeah, they do. That's.
It's I don't want to hear, I don't want to hear about your
job. Tell me something you're mad
about. Unless you're mad about your
job, unless you're complaining about your job.
I do want to hear that. Oh, I experienced a version of
this or yeah, I had like a little blip and revelation maybe
just a day or two ago. I'm another aspect of this whole
(51:37):
conundrum that I noticed maybe just yesterday or so is I have
like an acquaintance level friend who I honestly adore.
We just don't know each other that well yet.
She was going to like comp me a ticket to one of her work things
or something. Like it was something she
(51:58):
offered and she went out of her way to offer it to me and it was
really sweet and I was really interested in taking her up on
it and like coming to this kind of like work event thing.
I'm I was genuinely interested and excited to go.
And then she kind of circled back, you know, this week and
was like, OK, cool. I'm like, I think I can finally
get you those tickets. Let me know, you know, what day
(52:19):
you want to come to this thing. And we hadn't talked about it in
a few weeks. And then ultimately, I looked at
the my weekend schedule and bothof my editors are on vacation.
They're both on vacation for like a month still.
Still. Yes.
And I'm so glad they're on vacation.
I'm so glad they're working on their passion projects.
And then in the meantime, it means that editing a video for
(52:42):
me is 25 to 30 hours. So that means I have 30 extra
hours of work this week to do. And then next week I will also
have 30 extra hours. And I am working through the
weekend. And for the foreseeable, I don't
know, two or three weeks. And then there's like family
obligations. And I was looking at the weekend
calendar and being like, I already am going to hate this
(53:04):
weekend. I could try and force myself to
show up to this thing which I dowant to be at and I was excited
about. And I know I'm going to be a
miserable, horrid person either at the event or to everyone else
the rest of the weekend, complaining about how
overwhelmed I am. And that I think would be a big,
(53:25):
a big failure on my part to overload my schedule.
So that so that all I'm doing with the people I am spending
time with is complaining about it all the time.
Like it, it happens. But I don't want to be doing
that all the time. And so I made the very pained
decision to be like, I'm so sorry.
I really would love to come to this.
And I am looking at my work schedule and I'm not going to be
(53:45):
able to make it work. I'm very disappointed to say
this. I, I really appreciate that you
offered, but I'm, I'm not going to be able to come.
I have to say no. And she wrote back pretty
briefly and I really couldn't read her tone.
It was pretty brief, and it was something that made me feel like
(54:06):
she might be annoyed, she might be disappointed, She probably is
disappointed. She was inviting me to this
thing. I was saying I wanted to go.
You know, she initiated it. She probably was disappointed.
And that freaked me out. And then right after it freaked
me out. I had this little voice
remembering, like, OK, but that's the consequence of
(54:28):
setting a boundary. That's the consequence of saying
that you can't go to something or you can't give something.
When someone wants you to give something or they want you to go
to something, they wanted that. And I made an intentional
decision for a reason that I need to say no.
And there might be discomfort like it, it they might, that
(54:51):
might not be what they wanted meto say.
And I had to remind myself of that because I almost wanted to
take it all back or I almost wanted to send like a second
apology text or something. And it, it wasn't like a big
thing where, you know, giving upmy seat was a some, It wasn't
like some big betrayal. It was just like we'd loosely
talked about it. And now I, I really can't.
(55:12):
But I did stop myself and be like you know what, maybe she is
disappointed, maybe she's annoyed.
That is her right to feel and itis like the consequence of me
setting a boundary I needed to set.
She is going to be OK. I don't even know for sure if
she was annoyed or disappointed,but if she was, I do accept that
consequence. Sometimes people are
(55:32):
disappointed because stuff doesn't match up all the time
and I just like as the people pleaser.
I had to remind myself, as always, this discomfort is the
consequence of setting a boundary and I can handle the
discomfort and she can handle the discomfort.
She's not going to end her life over this.
She is going to handle it. Maybe she has a little bit of
disappointment and I can handle her being a little disappointed.
(55:54):
That's OK. Yep, I you should know that like
your voice saying that it is inevitable to disappoint people.
I think that's approximately thephrasing.
That you used. In an episode that we had around
that topic, like probably pre episode 100, like it was a
(56:18):
while, a while, a while ago thatwe talked about this in depth.
I mean, it comes up all the time, but you said that and it
plays in my head in your voice like weekly.
It's a very important reminder and it's cool to me, I guess,
that you have to remind yourselfof that too.
Like it's important for people to see that, of course.
(56:41):
You know, I think people who don't struggle with that, they
aren't like setting mantras for themselves like that because
it's just natural. Like my sister Elizabeth does
not struggle with disappointing people.
She's like has great boundaries.She's not, she's not preaching
about this shit all the time. I'm interested in talking about
it because it's been like such adifficult thing for me to
(57:04):
grapple with. You know, I so I talk about it
in therapy all the time. And I think it was probably one
of my therapists who was like, yeah, you're going to disappoint
people. What are you talking about?
In this life, you're going to disappoint people.
And if you're not disappointing some people, then you're doing
it wrong because that means you have no boundaries.
It struck me, struck me. So, you know, hard.
(57:26):
And that's why I care to talk about this stuff.
But it is really, really difficult.
For me, and it's important too, that you gave this example of
disappointing someone and setting your boundaries because
it's. In a tiny way, it's not like I
backed out of their wedding. It was like a nothing plan that
we hadn't solidified and we theoretically talked about.
(57:47):
And then like the day came, likethe week came and I was like I
probably shouldn't because I have to work and I still felt so
bad. Like I almost sent another
apology. But that's The thing is like
these are the things that happenevery single they that shape how
your what your life feels like and what your relationship to
(58:10):
yourself feels like and where your energy goes.
That's like the theme of the month.
I think it is an example of that.
And I feel like a lot of times people think about boundary
setting and we only think about the really big, the really big
examples of that like. Yeah, yeah.
Not going to that person's wedding or setting that boundary
(58:30):
with your parent or, you know, like the really heavy big ones
that are like feel life altering.
But if you develop a muscle and like practice it in the small
day-to-day ways, it starts to get, it starts to just become
your norm of like, well, this ishow I make decisions.
This is how I respect myself. This is how I do it on a small
(58:53):
scale. And then eventually that, you
know, maps over to the larger scale stuff.
So I do think it's important that like it's not that big of a
deal and there wasn't actually abig conflict and there it's not
actually someone you're close with, but.
I don't actually even know that you're upset, it was just like
filling in on a short text. And what you said also just made
(59:14):
me think of like, I think some of the boundaries, actually, the
boundaries that feel hardest to enforce are ones where someone
is not being malicious. It's like someone just wants to,
she wanted to do something nice for me.
She was, she was offering to do something like nice for me that
she like had no obligation to do.
And to set a boundary there feltso much harder than someone
(59:39):
insulting me or offending me or,you know, trying to take away my
rights or something. I think those are the ones that
feel so hard because you want tolike, give to the people that
you like that. Or that's what I struggle with
the most is what you just made me realize.
Yeah, and that's the summary of the episode, kind of it's like,
it's like friends. Reaching out what we.
(01:00:00):
Were talking about earlier, that's so hard to say.
That's so hard to talk about. The fact that like we avoid
answering that call or calling somebody back and it's stressful
and it's something we kind of dread.
I don't know, I just think that's exactly what it's about.
It's like it's really hard because that's a person you like
(01:00:21):
and they like you and they want to talk to you or hang out with
you or whatever and you're having to navigate.
Well, I don't have capacity for that.
Like it's the hardest thing and that's why it's been hard for us
to even talk about. I feel like we've tried to talk
about this on episodes before and been like, I don't want to
like offend friends. We're not allowed.
(01:00:41):
Don't cancel. Maybe let's maybe not, let's not
go there. But this is the most relatable
thing, honestly, I think even for people who are not, you
know, in a position where they have tons and tons of friends
reaching out right now. Like there's some part of your
life where this is applicable, where you don't have capacity
and you're trying to figure out how to navigate that.
(01:01:05):
Like that's really what it comesdown to.
Wow, you were really like my what are what are the what are
those people called who like lead you up a mountain with a
llama? Oh yeah, like Emperor Kusko is.
That what they are Hold on he's.The guy from Who Leads You Up,
(01:01:26):
He's the llama. He's the llama I would be with.
Maybe I'd be Cronk. Crunk.
Wait, do you know what I'm talking about?
No, I'm just talking about my favorite one of my favorite
movies. Oh, it's like a is it a shaman?
I don't know if that's right, mywhole face and lips are peeling
(01:01:46):
and I just feel like shamans have their shit together when it
comes to their skin so. I'm so mad somebody listening
knows what I'm talking about. I'm.
Maybe it's a shaman. Shaman is like a medicine man.
I think that's different. That's why I brought up the
lips. I'm asking ChatGPT and it's like
buffering. So can somebody who's listening
(01:02:08):
leave a leave a message? This is why.
Comment on YouTube. This is why AI won't take our
jobs because we need a person totell us what this is called.
This is a Googleable thing. God damn it.
All right, Well, I can't know. Next week.
Yeah. OK.
Somebody let me know what it's called when there's like, the
kind of like person who leads you up Machu Picchu or like it's
(01:02:31):
kind of, I think they have llamas or they're your guide.
Yeah. OK, so next week we have coming
up the next episode in our dating series, the Hot Not
bothered summer dating series. Hot not bothered.
How to date without losing Your mind.
And let us be your llama guides.Well, we'll do our best, but we
(01:02:52):
might. That's why you were working so
hard to find it, because it works perfectly in this next in
that closer. Damn I'm.
Really annoying. I like llama guides.
You know, people have been, people have been adopting this
language around Kook University.So if anyone's new here, our
listeners have been dubbed the Kooks and we have merch that you
(01:03:14):
can you can find link down belowthat says Kook University.
It's a really cool sweatshirt. University.
And people. My dad wears.
It I love that your dad wears it.
My dad wears our lover and haterhats all, everywhere.
And what was I going to say? Oh, and people will like DM us
or e-mail us and say, hey, kooks, I am a senior at Kook
(01:03:35):
University or I'm a junior at Kook University.
It's very cute and it's their way of being like long time
listener, like I'm a senior or some people have been like, I
just found you. I'm a freshman.
It's so cute. I don't know how.
I don't think we've all talked about using that.
Language. I'm a senior at Kook.
University. That's so cute.
Cute so. I love that.
(01:03:58):
I don't know who's going to be our commencement speaker.
Our commencement speech is goingto be the next hot not bothered
or yeah, yeah, yeah. Or your dad or both.
OK. I'm still Googling this, I'm so
mad. Sherpa, Sherpa, Sherpa.
That's like a material that there was like a Sherpa trend
(01:04:19):
for couches and shit, right? Well I think it comes from
Sherpa can refer to both an ethnic group and type of fabric.
Sherpas are a Nepalese ethnic group known for their
mountaineering skills and cultural traditions.
So I think Sherpas, they are known for like 1 of the things
they're known for is like guiding you up a mountain.
And is there a lot depends. Must be.
(01:04:44):
Well, the hair comes from something.
I don't think it comes from the people.
Yeah. OK, OK, OK Sherpa mountain
guide. Many Sherpas are regarded as
highly elite Mountaineers and experts in their local area.
They were valuable to early explorers of the Himalayan
region, serving as guides through the extreme altitudes
among the peaks and passes in the region, particularly for
(01:05:08):
Mount Everest climbing expeditions.
Sherpa, you have been my Sherpa today.
I love that so much and it shoutout Peking podcast.
Go follow that. OK, bye, bye.
(01:05:29):
I'm so upset. All right, Apparently I made
this up. I did not make this up.
What?
Actually, the boundaries that feel hardest to enforce are ones
where someone is not being malicious.
She wanted to do something nice for me.
She was. She was offering to do something
like nice for me that she like, had no obligation to do.
And to set a boundary there feltso much harder than someone
insulting me or offending me or trying to take away my rights or
(00:23):
something. Welcome back to Not for
Everyone. We're a podcast hosted by a
hater and a lover and really just your Internet Big Sisters.
I always feel weird saying that because I am an actual big
(00:46):
sister, but oh, I think it givesme more credibility on the
Internet to be the big sister tothe masses.
And you too. You're a big You're a middle
sister, but a big sister too. I know, did I tell you one time
how my actual little sister kindof went on, She went on like a
semi joking rant about people because people always comment
(01:08):
that on my YouTube channel. They're always like, you feel
like the big sister I don't have.
Like it's a very common comment,which is why I was like, OK,
I'll just start saying it if that's how people feel.
And and my little sister Joy waslike, you're my fucking big
sister. She's mine. 100% that's I think
why I needed to give the qualifier today, because in
case. My sister.
(01:28):
Hears this she's very she's I mean like she gives me so much
shit but I know that she she loves me and she wants me to
herself so. Yeah.
I know that, Caitlin. Anyway, we have a little
announcement, right? Just a reminder.
Oh yeah, reminder that coming upnext week, our next episode will
(01:49):
be the second installment of oursummer dating series.
It's the Hot not bothered summerdating series How to Date
Without Losing Your Freaking Mind.
And we're doing 1 per month all through the summer.
And next week's episode will allbe about decoding listeners
(02:10):
biggest dating conundrums. So we've got direct conundrums
given to us by the listeners andwe're going to be hashing it
out. So that's coming up next week.
Yeah, I'm excited to record thatone.
We got a message a couple days ago that was, like, from a
listener who just got into a relationship and was kind of
(02:32):
dubious of whether the dating series would be relevant for
her. And she listened to that first
episode we did a few weeks ago, and she was like, oh, my gosh.
This is applicable to, like, newfriendships and just any new
connections that I'm establishing in life.
It doesn't have to be, you know,strictly dating.
So no. That's so nice.
It was reassuring because I do think so much of it is just like
(02:55):
how you show up as more of yourself just.
Being a person getting in touch with you yeah, OK, you told me
that you have a fun audio clip to play for us and I'm.
I just need to call out so I canignore this the rest of the
episode that I got a laser on myface like 4 hours ago and I'm
(03:16):
Yeah. So if it feels really hard to
look at me right now, that's why.
You told me that before we started recording.
I don't think it looks as bad asyou think.
And I noticed you liking on Instagram a reel that was like
about some specific laser treatment.
I don't know. You know how Instagram feeds you
like in the top right corner of Reels.
(03:37):
Now it has these bubbles of you can see what your friends have
liked. So it took me to that for you
and I was like, oh, interesting.I, I like wonder what this is
and I feel like maybe it's the treatment you just got.
I'll confirm later. I'll send it to you.
But. OK, well it was it was the cool
Cool peel laser, which is a CO2 laser.
(03:59):
As best as I understand it, CO2 seems to is like the gold
standard of skin care, poor refining, skin tightening.
But this one is like a laser andit it does the little wounds on
your skin and it's really good for it's one of the rare and few
(04:19):
treatments that can target like textured skin from acne
scarring, like pitting and ice pick scars and the things that
are like really hard texturally to fix.
And actually in our last podcastvideo, we got so many comments,
people hyping up our skin glow. And I was like, I think that's
(04:43):
because I did one last month. I genuinely.
Going to ask if you've done it before.
Yeah, I did it a month ago and Ithink I already saw like insane
results. There were so many comments
about it. Yeah, I really please let those
be the majority of your commentsfor the rest of time because we
got a. Lot of a.
Lot of compliments and I was going for like last week's
(05:03):
episode. I remember that I was wearing my
hair naturally, like I didn't have time to do it and I got out
of the shower and like let it air dry and it air dries kind of
curly. And some days that looks good
and some days that looks bad andthat.
Yeah, like the the air dry gamble.
Yeah. I like, it was a little frizzy,
but like it kind of looked Beachy and I just tried to go
(05:24):
with it. And so I appreciate that people
validated how we looked that day.
Yeah, I do have a voice memo. So a friend of mine who's like a
friend that I don't keep up withregularly, like we went to
college together. We had mutual friends.
We were always like friendly andin overlapping groups.
But we we've never been like besties.
(05:45):
But I think she's awesome and she listens to the podcast and
she out of the blue voice memoedme which like she's not somebody
that I typically do that with. And I wanted advice on something
and I thought it was so relatable that I wanted to play
it. She said that I could hey girl,
(06:06):
I have have been having this issue lately where I'm like so
overwhelmed with just people reaching out and like, I should
be so happy and grateful that I have a great community of people
who are like wanting to hang outor wanting to catch up or
whatever it is. But I'm finding myself so
paralyzed when like a a like a long distance friend, for
(06:27):
example, will will call and I'llmiss the call, but then I'm just
avoiding it because I think, OK,this conversation is going to be
at least an hour and I don't really have an hour right now.
Or like, alternatively with, youknow, people who not like top to
your BFFS, but just like, you know, for example, people I went
to grad school with where I'm friends with them, but we don't
(06:48):
see each other all the time. And then I always feel like
whenever we connect over text, it feels like it turns into
this, you know, oh, we should hang out.
Oh, let's get coffee, la, la, la.
And it's like, I am so busy right now with work and just
like, balancing this relationship that I'm in.
And I just feel like I don't have mental capacity to do a lot
(07:12):
of things right now. And I do want that to change.
Do you have hacks, tips, ETC forjust like, I don't want to avoid
my friends, but I don't want every text to feel like, OK,
we're going to end up just like we have to make a plan.
And I also once like the day goes by where maybe I like see a
(07:36):
text come in, it's not a good time to respond or I just don't
have the capacity to respond. I then it like sits in my unread
messages for days and days. And then I feel like, OK, a
certain time frame has passed. So now I just feel fucking
weird. How do you get past that shit?
Do you deal with any of this? Am I speaking to the right
person? Thank you.
(07:56):
You're the best. OK, bye.
OK. Wow.
Yeah, very. Adorable and very relatable and
you can like palpably hear the stress in her voice about like
am IA bad person, like am IA badfriend for kind of not wanting
to talk to my friends and I related so much.
(08:17):
But maybe do you have immediate thoughts before I go, 'cause I
have responded to her, she knowsmy thoughts.
But do you have? Yeah.
Yeah, this hits like so hard. I feel like it's, I don't think
I have. It's something I'm in the midst
of fumbling with for sure. And in a way, I'm so relieved to
(08:40):
hear somebody give us permissionto talk about it because I often
feel like I shouldn't or can't talk about this feeling online
when I know there's so many people, especially so many
people who follow our content who are struggling with the
opposite. They're struggling with feeling
lonely. There's in your 20s especially,
(09:03):
so much loneliness, but really throughout life, 30s, whatever,
moving to a new state and peoplemoving all over the country,
your friends leaving. Like, I think there's so many
people. There's just like the epidemic
of loneliness. And so I feel even though I've
been through that for like, overa decade now, that I have a
different problem. I feel like I'm not allowed,
(09:23):
like I shouldn't talk about it because it'll sound, I don't
know. I don't know what it'll sound,
but like, maybe it's not what people want to hear.
Yeah. Or just out of touch or like,
you know, But it is in another way.
I also feel like I hear the samestruggle from most of my
friends. Like I feel like when she
(09:45):
described that feeling of havingthe message sit in your inbox
for days, I'm, I will say weeks,weeks for so many of my friends.
And then almost every time we start texting again.
These aren't my best, best friends, but that next level or
so. And then every time we text,
it's them or I being like, Oh mygosh, I thought I respond to
this or like, Oh my gosh, I'm sosorry for the delay.
(10:08):
It's like almost every text conversation with this level of
friends now starts with someone apologizing for the delay and
for being overwhelmed. And so thinking about that just
right now, I'm just like, it's not just you and me.
It is a lot of people. It is a lot of people.
And I feel like it's, I don't know, I feel like it's a part of
(10:28):
maybe we talked about this a little bit on here before about
how, you know, people move all the time now.
You go to grad school with people and then they spread out
all over the world. You go to college with people
and they spread out all over theworld or high school or
wherever. And people just move so much
more frequently than they did basically in the history of the
(10:53):
world. And so we all have friends all
over the place and people comingin and out of your lives so many
more times. So I feel like there there must
be a growing number of the groupof like that mid tier friend
that you care about, you do wantto see sometimes you don't want
to write them off. You aren't trying to never see
(11:14):
them again or never talk to themor write them off.
But you also don't have the samecapacity.
And even if you're seeing this person once every four months or
once every six months is some ofthese friends to me, if I have
15 of them, that's a lot. That is a lot of catch UPS.
Yeah, it's a lot. Yeah, and catch UPS.
(11:35):
We've also notoriously talked about catch UPS.
I feel like in our shared hatredof them, like as much as it's
kind of a necessary evil in somerespects.
Like if you want to keep people close, there's some level of
knowing about each other's livesand how each other are doing
that not only is required, but like you probably care about and
you probably do want to know at some level.
(11:58):
But it's also so exhausting at the end of a long day when
you've been working and you've been interacting with your
immediate circles and the peopleyou immediately are kind of like
beholden to your partner, your closest friends, your family,
your coworkers, whatever. After all of that to catch up
with somebody who you do like and care about and want to know
(12:21):
about their life and want them to know about yours.
But like, now I have to give youa whole rundown of what my last
three months have been since thelast time we talked.
Like what do you what do you mean?
I'm already struggling to keep up with life and now I have to
give you like a book report on life and it's and it's, I do
feel like it's a lot. Yeah.
(12:42):
And I think another thing that Istruggled with during that time
and I still struggle with, but maybe less so like I do, I do
actually, by the way, we're talking a lot about the problem.
I do have a couple of tips, solution, ish type of things
that we'll. Get to but I just.
Want to validate the problem so much because I agree like it's
(13:02):
pervasive and it's hard to talk about.
You don't want anybody to hear you talking about it or and seem
like, oh, is this are they talking about me and do I not
matter to them And like they're kind of complaining about our
friendship. So there's that aspect of it
too. And I do feel like something I
struggled with was feeling like I had certain friends who were
in this like ring where I don't talk to them every day and they
(13:26):
were a lot better. They are a lot better at
reaching out to me than I am at reaching out to them.
Like it felt like they were chasing me around and I didn't
have the capacity. And the more it was like the
more that I heard from them, the, the more I had a missed
call from these types of people,the more I didn't want to call
(13:47):
them back because it just started to feel like, like I
don't have the capacity. Like, don't you get that?
Like, which is a it's like feelsterrible to say because if I
think about these people, I loveand respect them and I want them
in my life. But there is a dynamic that I
feel like came through in my friend's voice memo of like, I
(14:07):
like I'm avoiding them now. Like it feels it didn't start as
avoiding, it started as I just don't have capacity.
And now I'm anxious. And now it's a thing.
And it snowballs. And then they call you again and
you don't have capacity that dayeither.
And it just keeps snowballing. And then it starts to feel like
you're running away from them and they're chasing you.
(14:28):
And then that's like not a dynamic that you want in your
friendships. And I've been in that kind of
pattern with some friends and I don't even think they, like,
they probably don't see it that way.
But on my end, being anxious about owing them a call.
And then, Oh my God, they calledme again.
I still owe them a call back. Oh my God, they they're texting
me and I'm giving them less And I I owe them a feeling like I
(14:51):
owe a. Response.
The other thing I feel I've had I I literally was thinking about
this today with a friend who texted me and the text started
with, Oh my gosh, I thought I responded to this.
I'm so sorry. It's such a delight, blah, blah,
blah, blah, blah. And we were making plans, you
know, to meet up. And I was thinking about the
fact that she has initiated plans for us to hang out maybe
(15:16):
the last 20 times we hung out. And and that made me so
uncomfortable that she might think, I mean, I'm not
initiating with her. And every time she brings
something up, I agree and I I'm happy and excited to see her,
but I am not going to initiate in between.
I won't even initiate text conversations with people
(15:38):
anymore because I'm like, well, what if they want this to be a
15 minute text conversation and I don't have the time.
So I found myself like I and I don't.
I hardly ever initiate anything with any of my friends which
must feel which absolutely givesthe wrong message about how I
value them. But if you have 20 or more mid
(16:04):
range friends you're keeping up with in a year and they all
reach out to you to do even a once monthly catch up, I do not
have the capacity to initiate more catch ups and flood it
more. It's like I'm now dependent on
limiting it to the amount of times that they reach out to me.
(16:24):
I'm yeah, I don't know. I don't know.
I and I, I still feel really nervous saying all of this.
I'm for people who are like maybe not experiencing the same
thing. So I hope there can be, I hope
(16:45):
there can be understanding for like, I feel so self-conscious
talking about this in case somebody I don't know labels it
ungrateful. Because I, I guess I imagine to
me, I think a correct analogy would be like, if you're talking
to someone who's unemployed and they've had a really, really
hard time getting a job. And then you talk to someone
(17:06):
who's like working 6 jobs and the person working 6 jobs is
going to have complaints too. And to the unemployed person, I
can understand why they don't want to hear those complaints.
But for the person with six jobs, I also know why they're
losing their fucking minds. And I do think it can be both.
(17:26):
But I, I do feel really, I'm like scared of criticism just
talking about it. But the, the truth is, it feels
very overwhelming to me. It feels very scary to think
that first of all, I'm overwhelmed personally.
Second of all, it feels scary tothink that my, the people I care
about, I cannot feel the way that I value them because
(17:50):
there's not enough hours in the day.
And and then, yeah, like trying to schedule all these things in
knowing I'm not showing up fullypresent because in the meantime,
I'm not getting downtime and recharge time or alone time or
like I don't get to go to the gym this week because I'm
overwhelmed. Like it.
It does feel completely untenable and like it will be
(18:15):
damaging relationships actually,which is not the fucking goal.
I'm not trying to ghost people. I think that's exactly why I
hope that like Grace, can it be extended for this conversation
because it's coming from a placeof like wanting to show up for
people and wanting to be a good friend and worrying that you're
not being a good friend, but also wanting to take care of
(18:38):
yourself and listen to yourself when you are at capacity and
prioritize your needs, but also show people that you care.
Like I I hope that that's relatable no matter what part of
life people are are applying it to.
Like you gave the job example. I feel like the same thing goes
for relationships. Sometimes I feel weird about
(19:01):
talking, you know, we're to people who are in long term,
serious, healthy relationships at this point in our lives.
We talk a lot about our past with other partners and like
hardships that we've been through and dating and all of
that. But at the same time, right now
we are both happy and good and Ihave some self consciousness and
(19:22):
self doubt around talking too much about that.
Does it seem like I'm bragging or it's tone deaf for people who
don't have it? Or on the flip side, if I bring
up problems, because we also talk about challenges that we
might have with our partners or communication issues that we
have to navigate with them or whatever, am I seeming like I'm
(19:42):
complaining about something thatI know so many of our listeners
and people in my life want and are craving?
So I just think there's no way to avoid that.
Like what what is going on in mylife right now is not what is
going on in every life of every person.
And that doesn't mean that it's not valid to talk about like, I
(20:03):
think comparing pain and like. Comparing the size, you know,
like, oh, there's kids who don'thave food.
Yes, I I know I'm very upset about it and also I am in my
life and so anyway, I, I definitely.
I know you're right. I know you're right.
I relate. To the stress about it, but I do
think it's important to talk about because this is the stuff
(20:24):
that me and my friends talk about most of the time.
And a lot of my friends and people, like my friends listen
to this podcast and like we're constantly talking about at this
point in our lives, at least in our 30s, maybe it's specific to
this decade. But like, how do I, how do I
balance all of the things that are on my plate?
(20:46):
I've arrived at a place where I love all the things on my plate,
and yet there's just too many ofthem and I can't do them all in
a day or in a week. What?
Do you do, Jess? I'm, I'm really struggling with
this and I don't think I'm good at like, I really need your
tips. Yeah, I will say if, if one of
(21:07):
these people are listening or even if they're not, if I don't
want to spend time with someone,I don't There's plenty of people
that I have politely ended the relationship with.
I wouldn't even call it a friendship because, you know,
maybe we tried to hang out, it didn't work.
We don't have that much of A connection.
Not a bad person, but like, if Isee you even once every, I have
(21:29):
friends I see like once every five months.
That's somebody I like. That is someone I like a lot.
I'm not doing that as charity work.
That means I really like you. So I don't have a problem like
cutting it off if we don't have a connection.
But I'm, I'm really struggling. I What do you do?
Yeah, I mean, I struggle with this too, but I think I've
(21:51):
figured out a couple of things that help.
And I am really lucky that I have a lot of friends that I've
picked up over the years and they live in a lot of different
places. So there's all sorts of ways
that I do and don't keep in touch with them.
I think something that helped merecently was there was this
(22:12):
article, I might have mentioned it before on the podcast, an
article that came out about a year ago maybe that was like it
was about the 8 minute phone call.
And basically it's this theory or premise that just talking to
a friend for 8 minutes can like drastically improve moods.
And it doesn't require like a whole long catch up to get that
(22:37):
kind of like hit on both sides of like connection and support
and just like fun and whatever, whatever you need from your
friends. And so I actually, when that
article came out, I can link it in the description of this
episode. I sent it to a few friends,
specifically friends who are in this category of like, I wish we
(22:57):
caught up more. We don't.
Maybe I feel like you chased me for it sometimes and I'm not
available. And I feel like the bad friend I
was just very forthcoming with like look at this article.
This is really cool. I feel like we should try it.
Like I know that I've been Mia and I don't want to be, but I
(23:17):
also know that we're both reallybusy.
What about the 8 minute phone call?
And like I've started to implement that with certain
friends, just not on any, you know, specific schedule, but
like giving the permission to both of us that we don't have to
catch up for a long time to be able to maintain our friendship.
(23:38):
And that's worked really well. So these are people.
These are people who don't live in your city of Chicago.
These are people where it's not an option to see in person.
Yes, yes, that's right. OK, cool.
OK, cool. Yeah, yeah, this is mostly for
long distance friends. Another thing I've.
The thing that gets hardly long distance is like the more you
(23:59):
put it off, the less I feel likean 8 minute phone call is
respectful enough. You know like if we haven't
talked in months and I love you,then I feel like OK, 30 minutes,
40 minutes. It's never 30 minutes.
It's usually an hour, you know what I mean?
So I feel like that's what always gets me.
But maybe I should just say that.
(24:21):
Like do I send this article to people?
Yeah, it's kind of like working out.
Like I tell myself that it's better to go walk on the
treadmill for 10 minutes than tonot do it at all.
And I feel like it's the same like, and I hate to make that
comparison and make it seem likeit's something I dread to talk
to my friends. But in the context of this
(24:42):
conversation, when we're talkingabout how much we have on our
plates, sometimes it does feel at the end of the day like
something I dread. It's like in my heart I want it,
but like physically in my body right this second, I don't want
it. Not in my body, not in.
My body. Not in my body, never.
In my body. And so I don't know, like, to
(25:03):
me, I have found even a short conversation scratches the itch
for both sides and people seem to respond well to it.
You don't necessarily have to send this article.
You could also just be like, hey, I'm so busy.
I, I can give you a call on my walk to the grocery store today.
I know it'll be quick but like are you down for like a 5-10
(25:26):
minute? That's nice.
That is nice too. Because if I feel like it's
better, I'm thinking about like if I'm proactive about it rather
than if they asked me to call and I'm like, daddy's busy.
He can give you 8 minutes. But if I initiate, which is also
part of my goal is to be able toinitiate it more and be like,
can I call you? Just say hi, miss your face 5-10
(25:48):
minutes, cool. Yeah, exactly.
Great. I also think it can be helpful.
And this, again, this sounds a little brutal.
This is like my corporate side coming out.
But to give an end time like I've had, this is on the
networking side of things. I have a lot of conversations
all the time with people who areyounger in their.
(26:09):
Conversations all the time. All the time.
I'm always having conversations.I love to talk to people who are
younger than me getting started in their careers and like
offering mentorship or whatever.I and I and I genuinely don't
pursue it. It just comes to me.
I think I make it known that I like that and people refer
(26:29):
people to me and I just end up having a lot of these types of
conversations where I'm helping somebody figure out like, oh,
you should apply for these typesof jobs or this is what I did
when I took a year off or whatever.
And so I have found in those conversations, I love having
them. And I say yes to most of them.
But sometimes people, whether they're just not thinking about
(26:50):
it or they're being a little bitselfish with their time, I'll
say I can do. I can do 1:00 PM.
And they put an hour block on the calendar.
And it's like, dog, this is a 30.
Minute conversation you should know.
That this is a 30 minute. Conversation.
And if I make it an hour, that'san extra bonus.
I'm extending, but it's going tostart if it's going to start on
longer 20-30 minutes. I liked you.
(27:11):
Yeah. Yeah.
So I have gotten in the habit ofmaking sure that I say the end
time I can do from 1:00 to 1:30 on this day.
And I feel like a similar tacticworks for friend calls.
It's like I can talk until 2:00 and then I have to go do
whatever I have to do. I don't know, Like, I do think
(27:35):
you have to be clear with the amount, the capacity that you
have and be present while you'reon the call.
Like make sure that that's a time when you can actually talk
to your friend and be present and enjoy the conversation.
But also be like, yeah, that's all I had today.
I'm glad we got it in. Like, I think there's just a
(27:57):
realism that has to be applied because the alternative is that
you don't talk at all. So what's better, you know?
Most people, I think most peopleactually get it.
It's funny how I build up this like this demand from people
that they haven't ever actually stated to me and I'm like, they
they want an hour long phone call.
(28:18):
You know what? Most of the time when I get on
these calls, they're ending the call on me.
I'm just too nervous to end the call.
So I will let it go into oblivion until they're like,
that's enough of you, that's enough.
And no, yeah, I just need to get, I need.
I'm not very assertive with this.
OK, I've that's my setting an end time before you're on the
phone. I do two to two O 3 yeah.
(28:43):
Or is that too much? You know somebody that I
mentioned her at the very beginning of the podcast, my
sister calls me a lot and I callher as much as I can, but
probably less than her. And I definitely call her back
when she calls me or I try to and whatever.
It's my sister. We have ongoing.
We're talking every few days andI made it a thing in my head.
(29:07):
I think I realized this recently.
Anytime Caitlin would call me and I missed the call, I then
felt like I was on a countdown of like, OK, I got to go.
I got to call my sister back. And if I don't do it in this
amount of time, I'm a bad sister.
She's going to be mad at me. I'm going to hear about it.
She didn't really set this precedent.
I mean, my sister can be a little intense, but she didn't
(29:29):
honestly did not set this precedent.
I made it up in my head and I realized that I was putting
myself on this countdown and usually I would call her back in
a reasonable amount of time, like within 24 hours.
And she's just like, hey, whatever.
Like what are what's up? Like there's nothing specific.
She doesn't really give a shit. Like, you know, she knew we're
(29:49):
going to talk. I love.
Your Caitlin impression. Like she's like, what do you
want? Like.
That is a pretty good Caitlin impression.
And I think I just at some pointit clicked like, oh, she's not
calling me and she's not starting the same countdown and
like stopwatch that I'm startingto call her back.
She's the type of person that actually, when she's on a walk
(30:12):
or when she's in the call in thecar, she calls a bunch of
friends and whoever picks up picks.
Up that is most of them. That is most of those calls, I
think. And then I do the thing where
I'm like, they must be so pissedand disappointed that I didn't
pick up. Whereas personally, if I call
someone, even when I'm a mood and I want to talk to somebody,
I don't. If they don't pick up, I don't
(30:33):
think about it. I just.
I love it I. Love when they don't.
First of all, that's the best case scenario.
I called you, you got the missednotification and I'm off the
hook. That's the best you see.
That I care about you, but we didn't have to interact.
But even if I wanted to get you on the phone, even if when it's
like I'm kind of in a crisis or like a really and lonely or
whatever, there are the moments where I'm like, I really would
(30:54):
like a call and I'm and I never am thinking fuck them for
turning it down. It's like you just go on with
the rest of your life. And then I have this idea that
other people don't have the samerichness to their life.
Like they're just sitting at home thinking about how I didn't
pick up their call. They don't even remember that
they called me. They're probably so happy I
(31:14):
didn't pick up and they know. They're on the phone with
someone else already. I've literally started to
visualize to like get this anxiety out of me.
I visualize that as soon as I they didn't pick up that call,
they called someone else and they got on the phone with them.
And right now, as I'm stressed about it, they're talking to a
different friend and they don't even Remember Me anymore.
(31:35):
I know they don't even. Remember Me?
But they called me. Please forget me.
Please forget that you knew me A.
Lot of times people are just, they're on their way to do
something. They're like, I have the energy
to talk to someone on the phone.They give them a call and then
the person on the receiving end,if you're like me, you're like,
Oh my God, they like they need me.
It's just self important, you know it's.
(31:55):
So delusional. OK.
Next question? OK.
What do you do about the in person shit?
Hear me out, there are a lot of ways that picking a doctor,
finding a doctor at all, findinga Doctor Who's going to treat
you well and have time for you and be available when you need
(32:18):
them and hopefully live nearby and like respond to your
messages. That sounds a lot like dating,
doesn't it? Or any relationship really.
Sounds a lot like friendships. And often times we're forced to
settle because it's really hard to find a decent fit in the
first place. That is until Zocdoc.
(32:39):
Zocdoc is a free app and websitewhere you can search and compare
high quality in network doctors and Click to instantly book an
appointment. I would say that like 80% plus
of the doctors that I've seen inthe last 10 years have been
found through Zocdoc. It is reliable.
No matter where I live, no matter what type of doctor I'm
(33:00):
looking for, I'm able to get an appointment quickly and just
having that there for me whenever I'm looking for any
type of care has honestly helpedme repair a lot of my trust
issues. Stop putting off those doctor's
appointments and go to zocdoc.com/not For everyone to
find and instantly book a top rated doctor today.
That's zocdoc.com slash not for everyone. zocdoc.com/not for
(33:25):
everyone fully spelled out. So like the I'm dying kind of
second ring friends that you can't see as often I.
(33:48):
Can't. I can't even see my best friends
as often as I want to. I can't even see my best friends
as often as I want to. And then, yeah, any ring of
person who's like I, Jessica. It's crazy, I know.
I haven't figured this one out. I do think something that helps
(34:10):
is that I really like mixing my friend groups and like bringing
a lot of people together. So I'll do a couple times a
year, like for my birthday and around the holidays I'll do like
a I'll host a party or a BBQ or whatever and I'll just invite
everyone and I feel like it. Do that.
But no, no, no, it's not. I do that and then every single
(34:32):
one of them says I want us time.We need to catch up.
Oh sure, I don't know, I haven'tfigured this one out.
I think I do totally agree. Like, I don't even get to spend
time as much time as I want withmy best friends and my favorite
people. Yeah.
And so that does always run through my head when I get when
(34:55):
somebody else reaches out and islike, hey, we should do
something. I'm like, I'm.
I'm thinking about is that really what I want to spend my
time on if I haven't even seen Kai?
Yeah. I don't know.
That's a hard one. I can share what I'm talking,
what I'm doing right now. I'm still obviously overwhelmed,
(35:16):
but these things have at least helped.
And I'll say right now, I don't know, maybe they're going to
sound brutal, but I'm just trying to survive out here.
So the first one is doing, I feel like doing morning coffee
always guarantees that it's shorter because people have to
go work. Like if if we meet in the
evening, it can easily be no onebelieves or like it doesn't
(35:37):
occur to anyone that I work, I will work till like 1:00 AM.
And so I'm working if we hang out in the evening, I'm, it's
very likely I'm going to go homeand edit later.
But that's not people just thinkyou'll hang out for three or
four hours, whatever, which I would like to do.
But I feel like morning coffee helps a lot.
And I do actually love getting up early and like getting a kick
(36:01):
in my butt and having social time in the morning.
I, I wish I did it more. I love that I feel like it's
just fun to be like see a girlfriend at like 8:00 or 9:00
AM. Actually really love that when I
can make myself do it. And then the other thing, this
one not maybe does sound brutal.I don't know.
I'm very judgmental of myself with this but I'm I can't live
(36:24):
and I'm is just kicking. Just not scheduling with
urgency. I've noticed that anytime anyone
asks my time of me IA immediately assume I have to
accept and assume I have to accept for as soon as possible.
Like if I have time in the next two weeks I schedule in the next
(36:47):
two weeks, that's as soon as possible for me.
And I've noticed I have this onefriend who she's also super
busy. She's super social.
I know that we probably occupy asimilar level of friendship for
each other, but she's also good at reaching out and she'll often
reach out to hang out. And then I asked, sure, what's
your availability? And she'll point to like a month
(37:10):
ahead or something. And I've never been offended by
that. But I also never, it never
occurred to me to do that. And I realized by with those
people scheduling a month ahead,I guess it in my head I was
like, oh, is that rude? Or like, oh, I could dig out
sometime at 6:00 AM on a Tuesdayor oh, that's just kicking it
(37:32):
down the road and everything's going to build up anyway.
But it doesn't because it's spaces the Hangouts longer
because I found like to get verymathematical about it.
If I immediately scheduled to hang out with them next week and
then our usual cadence is every three months, that means I have
one next week and I have one in a week and three months.
(37:54):
As opposed to if I kick it down a month, then I have one a month
from now and 1 five months from now.
You know what I mean? Because it'll be 3 months plus a
month, whatever it is. So it I feel like there is
actually a very, there is like more benefits to scheduling way
(38:16):
farther out. And it also allows me, it's like
I get to accept the invitation. I do want to see you.
I'm agreeing to see you. We're putting a firm date on the
calendar and there's a month till that time.
But in that month, they know I want to see them and we have
something on the calendar. And then I don't know, I think
in my head it feels like this shouldn't make a difference, but
it really, really does. And people do it to me all the
(38:39):
time. So I don't know why it took me
so long to catch up that like it's that feeling of urgency
again. I think it's the anxious, it's
the anxious girl in me that feels like I have to please
people immediately. I'll please you in a month.
Oh, I'll please you. Oh.
I'll please you. You're going to be begging for
me to stop. I agree with both of those.
(39:00):
I have like yeah, I think I haveadd-ons for each.
So on that second point about like scheduling out further, I
totally agree. And something that has helped me
do this is that I have started, I think I've just become more
selfish with my time and I've given myself permission to do
that. And so if I'm looking at my next
two weeks, which of past versionof myself would have tried to
(39:24):
squeeze it all in in the next two weeks, if somebody texts me,
I'm trying to get them in here as soon as possible.
With that urgency, I now scope out my two weeks in a way where
I have designated nothing days, down time days, spontaneous
days. So if I'm looking at like a
weekend, let's say a friend could text me today and say,
(39:48):
hey, we should get together soon.
And I could look at my this weekend and my next weekend and
be like, oh, I actually have free Saturdays, but maybe I have
plans that Friday and, you know,something with Ryan's family
Sunday. And maybe it would really
benefit me to have a Saturday tokind of do nothing, get
organized around the house, do aworkout, like have my ugly time.
(40:12):
And so I won't offer those up. Like, I think part of it is just
knowing that just because I havea free day or free time doesn't
mean I need to offer that up. They can't see my calendar.
They don't know that. Who the fuck is doing my laundry
then? Like when and when I get those
free evenings I'm doing errands and chores.
Yes and I'm getting to chill like it is.
(40:33):
It is a it is an an infuriating feeling.
Like if I, if there's, there's exceptions, if it's like
somebody's birthday, I'll, I'll do multiple things in a weekend,
you know, if it's some bigger event or something for a really
close friend or whatever. Of course there's those times
when it's just busy and I want to be doing all those things and
they have to be happening in that like tighter span of time.
(40:56):
But I'd look at my calendar in away now where I build in
downtime and I protect it as much as possible.
And if that means we're not hanging out for a month, then so
be it. I'm, I'm busy on those days
because I need this time to myself.
And they don't necessarily have to know that that's what it's
for. But I'm also pretty comfortable
telling people if they were to, you know, ask, not that they do.
(41:19):
They really don't ask. Nobody.
What are you doing then? That would be wild.
Why? What are you doing all week?
It's like avoiding you. I'm avoiding you.
But I would be very comfortable to say I've been so busy that I
actually protected that weekend as like me time and somebody I,
anybody like, keep in my life should respect that.
Yeah, yeah. I have started doing Oh, sorry,
(41:40):
sorry, go on. Oh.
No, go ahead, go ahead. I was talking for.
A while I was gonna say, I thinkmy version of that is I've
started on the weekends looking,I always look ahead at like my
work week. What do I need to be, You know,
how do I need to pace out the work week?
But I've also been looking at myevenings and social calendar and
being like, OK, do I have four days blocked off already?
That's my Max. I am not going to be enjoying
(42:01):
this week. I'm not going to be getting to
the gym. I'm not going to have clean
laundry. I'm not going to have groceries
in the fridge. I'm not going to have sanity.
I'm going to be snapping at Justin.
I'm going to be snapping at every obligatory social event.
If I have like more than three or four days schedule up.
And I do usually have to like, so look at the week ahead over
the weekend and then like lock it down and I just have to tell
myself ahead of time. No, Caroline, no, you say no.
(42:25):
You say no to people, you say no.
It's hard. I'm not healed in this way like
this is. I don't think I'm hard.
All the time. I'm not.
The other thing that you mentioned was the breakfast or
the coffee dates first thing in the morning, which I really like
that idea and it is such a like restorative way to start a day
(42:47):
to see a friend. Like you just feel so much more
grounded. It's really.
Nice the rest of the day. It's a totally different feeling
than ending your day when you'relike you've stared at your work
screen for 8 hours. Like it.
It actually is really, really nice.
Yeah, it's. The same as doing again.
I'm going to compare it to a workout again.
I like working out, actually. If I do it at the right time,
yeah. I wish I was working out.
(43:08):
Yeah, in the morning I feel likeit has such a better impact and
like starts, it's like you have to go, you wake up and you have
to go and you don't have any excuses.
By the end of the day, I have like 15 excuses that I can get
myself out of these things. But the other thing is that if,
if doing like a morning coffee isn't realistic for you,
(43:28):
something that's been working for me too is like going to
specific events with friends. So rather than let's go get
dinner or let's get drinks and it's like a catch up, you know,
across the table from each otherand we could end up staying for
hours and hours. I'll do an art class with a
friend or I'll go to some a comedy show with a friend.
(43:51):
Like find something that you're interested in doing.
And a lot of times it's something that maybe I'll sign
up for regardless, just to do onmy own.
And then if a friend, this happened recently, I signed up
for an art class because I've been trying to incorporate a
little more just like creative time that doesn't have to have
like an output for me, which I've talked about a little bit.
(44:12):
And so I signed up for an art class that seemed cool to me by
myself. And then a friend texted me and
was like, hey, we should get together soon.
And I was like, oh, actually I signed up for this art class.
Do you want to come? Do you want to sign up for it
too? That's nice.
And it's a nice way, but if theysay no, that's fine, I was going
to go anyway. But if they are like if they're
not available that day, whatever.
(44:33):
But it has worked out where one of my friends and I did that a
couple weeks ago and it was likea 2 hour contained thing.
It was something I wanted to go to whether she came or not.
We ended up like really enjoyingit and getting to do something
with our hands. We did a little bit of catching
up during like the times in the class when we could talk, but
there were also times when we were paying attention to the
(44:54):
instructor and it just like was low pressure.
And then at the end of the two hours, we said bye and went
home. And so you don't have to make it
a whole long catch up that coulddrag out.
You could find some little thingto do.
It could be even without paying for an art class.
Go for a walk. Like you can only walk for so
long. Let's go for a walk right after
(45:17):
work before dinner. You could even cap it.
Let's go for a walk after work, before dinner.
That's 5:00 to 6:00. You got an hour, squeeze it in.
You know, like it doesn't alwayshave to be a whole thing.
We don't have time for a whole thing I.
Don't know what's wrong with me.I'm so horrible at this.
I do. I do think I'm, I think that's
first of all, that's a really cute idea of just like you.
(45:38):
So you book the art class on your own, assuming you'd go
alone, and then if someone reaches out, you're like, I got
a trap for you, meet me in this arc.
Yes, I set this trap for. You and they're delighted.
They're delighted by my chat andit's.
Such a more fun way to hang out and you know, I'm so tired of
the catch up. And one thing I guess I did
slide into recently was, yeah, not signing up for a thing, but
(46:05):
just doing. I don't even know what you would
call this, but I had always avoided kind of doing interior
design activities with my friends because to me I'm like,
well, that's work. I'm doing that.
I'm working all day now I'm going to come work more or like,
(46:25):
if I'm doing it, should I be filming it?
Should I find a way to make thisa video like I, I have to get
this job done like it it. I was really resistant to it.
I'm and then maybe it started like with Abby, Abby and I had
our editor, we hadn't seen each other in for a bit and she
(46:45):
wanted help maybe with like a gallery wall.
And for whatever reason, I was like, OK, let's just go do the
gallery wall. And I still had this idea in my
head that like, oh, it's going to, it's going to be like work
and it's not really a friend catch up and blah, blah, blah.
But then it was like so much more fun.
It was so much fun and it was somuch more fun doing an activity
together. And it's something I love to do.
I don't know why I just, I really had this block in my head
(47:08):
about like, like, will I do thatfor work?
And it's very stressful often for work when I have deadlines
and I have to film it and I haveto edit it and I have to get
approval and blah, blah, blah. And I think I just had it so
solidified in my head as something that would be
stressful that I forgot. It can be very fun with a
friend. And it was like the most fun way
(47:28):
to hang out. And then I started doing more of
that. Like my friend Ashley, we've
been working on a room design for her, which will be a video.
And it will, it is part of work.But now when we hang out and she
loves to catch up, and I do loveto catch up with her.
You know, I bring my laptop and we work on the design a little
bit. Or I bring the laptop over to
(47:50):
her place and she makes dinner and I'm pulling up, you know,
furniture samples for her. And it just feels like a much
more colorful and textured way to hang out.
And I don't know what my advice actually is here, but I think I
just had this clear separation about like, these are things you
do when you hang out. These are things that are work,
these are things that are projects, These are things that
(48:12):
are fair favors. And like, I'm, I don't know, I
think just trying the things I was resistant to.
Maybe that's the advice. Yeah, and also we said this in
our Hot Not Bothered episode forMay and it was relating to
dating. But I think that it's relevant
here too, like setting the tone and setting the culture for what
(48:36):
is going, what the norm is goingto become between you and these
friends. So for example, like as you were
talking and just talking about kind of normalizing, like let's
do other things while hanging out.
It doesn't always have to be thedeep face to face catch up.
I was thinking about friends of like, friends of mine who I
(48:58):
maintain relationships with, butI don't necessarily see all the
time, whether they live in Chicago, where I live or whether
they live somewhere else. And I thought of Instagram,
which, like, sucks because it takes over our lives.
But at the same time, there's something to be said for like
just having that like open dialogue back and forth with
(49:20):
certain people where you're sending them a meme that you
thought that made you think of them or a video that made you
think of them. Or maybe on Instagram, an event
pops up and it made you think ofthem.
And I feel like because I do that with a lot of people, as
weird as it is, like, I hate to give social media that much
credit, but I I'm the type of person that like, if something
(49:41):
reminds me of you, I'll send it to you, even if we haven't
talked in a year. And I feel like because of that,
it normalizes that like my friend who sent me this voice
memo, who I haven't talked to ina year, probably sent me this
voice memo and there was no preamble, there was no catch up,
there was nothing. It was, hey, I thought of you
because I have this problem and I'm just dropping in to leave
(50:04):
you this voice memo and see if you could talk about it.
We had like a really cool, thoughtful conversation back and
forth on Voice Memo for like 30 minutes.
And then we probably won't talk again in a meaningful way for a
while. But because she's someone that I
like kind of keep up with peripherally and I've just set a
tone and a culture with of like there's an open line of
(50:24):
communication here. You don't.
I'm not blocking you out. I'm not blocking.
You out and you don't have to show up and like ask me how I am
every time and ask for an updateon my life like it's OK, Just
get to the meat of it. I feel like I don't know exactly
how I've established that with alot of people.
I think it's a combination of a lot of the things we've been
talking about, but like setting that tone, being the one to do
(50:48):
it first can really help. Like just popping in with people
and skipping the catch up and just being like, Hey, I thought
of you because of this thing or hey, I'm having this issue.
I I wanted to know what you thought about it.
Just skip. Just skip to the, to the to the
meat of it and I start. With a complaint, I feel like
you just start complaining aboutsomething and I feel like
everyone's, everyone knows how to fall in line.
(51:12):
Yeah, they do. That's.
It's I don't want to hear, I don't want to hear about your
job. Tell me something you're mad
about. Unless you're mad about your
job, unless you're complaining about your job.
I do want to hear that. Oh, I experienced a version of
this or yeah, I had like a little blip and revelation maybe
just a day or two ago. I'm another aspect of this whole
(51:37):
conundrum that I noticed maybe just yesterday or so is I have
like an acquaintance level friend who I honestly adore.
We just don't know each other that well yet.
She was going to like comp me a ticket to one of her work things
or something. Like it was something she
(51:58):
offered and she went out of her way to offer it to me and it was
really sweet and I was really interested in taking her up on
it and like coming to this kind of like work event thing.
I'm I was genuinely interested and excited to go.
And then she kind of circled back, you know, this week and
was like, OK, cool. I'm like, I think I can finally
get you those tickets. Let me know, you know, what day
(52:19):
you want to come to this thing. And we hadn't talked about it in
a few weeks. And then ultimately, I looked at
the my weekend schedule and bothof my editors are on vacation.
They're both on vacation for like a month still.
Still. Yes.
And I'm so glad they're on vacation.
I'm so glad they're working on their passion projects.
And then in the meantime, it means that editing a video for
(52:42):
me is 25 to 30 hours. So that means I have 30 extra
hours of work this week to do. And then next week I will also
have 30 extra hours. And I am working through the
weekend. And for the foreseeable, I don't
know, two or three weeks. And then there's like family
obligations. And I was looking at the weekend
calendar and being like, I already am going to hate this
(53:04):
weekend. I could try and force myself to
show up to this thing which I dowant to be at and I was excited
about. And I know I'm going to be a
miserable, horrid person either at the event or to everyone else
the rest of the weekend, complaining about how
overwhelmed I am. And that I think would be a big,
(53:25):
a big failure on my part to overload my schedule.
So that so that all I'm doing with the people I am spending
time with is complaining about it all the time.
Like it, it happens. But I don't want to be doing
that all the time. And so I made the very pained
decision to be like, I'm so sorry.
I really would love to come to this.
And I am looking at my work schedule and I'm not going to be
(53:45):
able to make it work. I'm very disappointed to say
this. I, I really appreciate that you
offered, but I'm, I'm not going to be able to come.
I have to say no. And she wrote back pretty
briefly and I really couldn't read her tone.
It was pretty brief, and it was something that made me feel like
(54:06):
she might be annoyed, she might be disappointed, She probably is
disappointed. She was inviting me to this
thing. I was saying I wanted to go.
You know, she initiated it. She probably was disappointed.
And that freaked me out. And then right after it freaked
me out. I had this little voice
remembering, like, OK, but that's the consequence of
(54:28):
setting a boundary. That's the consequence of saying
that you can't go to something or you can't give something.
When someone wants you to give something or they want you to go
to something, they wanted that. And I made an intentional
decision for a reason that I need to say no.
And there might be discomfort like it, it they might, that
(54:51):
might not be what they wanted meto say.
And I had to remind myself of that because I almost wanted to
take it all back or I almost wanted to send like a second
apology text or something. And it, it wasn't like a big
thing where, you know, giving upmy seat was a some, It wasn't
like some big betrayal. It was just like we'd loosely
talked about it. And now I, I really can't.
(55:12):
But I did stop myself and be like you know what, maybe she is
disappointed, maybe she's annoyed.
That is her right to feel and itis like the consequence of me
setting a boundary I needed to set.
She is going to be OK. I don't even know for sure if
she was annoyed or disappointed,but if she was, I do accept that
consequence. Sometimes people are
(55:32):
disappointed because stuff doesn't match up all the time
and I just like as the people pleaser.
I had to remind myself, as always, this discomfort is the
consequence of setting a boundary and I can handle the
discomfort and she can handle the discomfort.
She's not going to end her life over this.
She is going to handle it. Maybe she has a little bit of
disappointment and I can handle her being a little disappointed.
(55:54):
That's OK. Yep, I you should know that like
your voice saying that it is inevitable to disappoint people.
I think that's approximately thephrasing.
That you used. In an episode that we had around
that topic, like probably pre episode 100, like it was a
(56:18):
while, a while, a while ago thatwe talked about this in depth.
I mean, it comes up all the time, but you said that and it
plays in my head in your voice like weekly.
It's a very important reminder and it's cool to me, I guess,
that you have to remind yourselfof that too.
Like it's important for people to see that, of course.
(56:41):
You know, I think people who don't struggle with that, they
aren't like setting mantras for themselves like that because
it's just natural. Like my sister Elizabeth does
not struggle with disappointing people.
She's like has great boundaries.She's not, she's not preaching
about this shit all the time. I'm interested in talking about
it because it's been like such adifficult thing for me to
(57:04):
grapple with. You know, I so I talk about it
in therapy all the time. And I think it was probably one
of my therapists who was like, yeah, you're going to disappoint
people. What are you talking about?
In this life, you're going to disappoint people.
And if you're not disappointing some people, then you're doing
it wrong because that means you have no boundaries.
It struck me, struck me. So, you know, hard.
(57:26):
And that's why I care to talk about this stuff.
But it is really, really difficult.
For me, and it's important too, that you gave this example of
disappointing someone and setting your boundaries because
it's. In a tiny way, it's not like I
backed out of their wedding. It was like a nothing plan that
we hadn't solidified and we theoretically talked about.
(57:47):
And then like the day came, likethe week came and I was like I
probably shouldn't because I have to work and I still felt so
bad. Like I almost sent another
apology. But that's The thing is like
these are the things that happenevery single they that shape how
your what your life feels like and what your relationship to
(58:10):
yourself feels like and where your energy goes.
That's like the theme of the month.
I think it is an example of that.
And I feel like a lot of times people think about boundary
setting and we only think about the really big, the really big
examples of that like. Yeah, yeah.
Not going to that person's wedding or setting that boundary
(58:30):
with your parent or, you know, like the really heavy big ones
that are like feel life altering.
But if you develop a muscle and like practice it in the small
day-to-day ways, it starts to get, it starts to just become
your norm of like, well, this ishow I make decisions.
This is how I respect myself. This is how I do it on a small
(58:53):
scale. And then eventually that, you
know, maps over to the larger scale stuff.
So I do think it's important that like it's not that big of a
deal and there wasn't actually abig conflict and there it's not
actually someone you're close with, but.
I don't actually even know that you're upset, it was just like
filling in on a short text. And what you said also just made
(59:14):
me think of like, I think some of the boundaries, actually, the
boundaries that feel hardest to enforce are ones where someone
is not being malicious. It's like someone just wants to,
she wanted to do something nice for me.
She was, she was offering to do something like nice for me that
she like had no obligation to do.
And to set a boundary there feltso much harder than someone
(59:39):
insulting me or offending me or,you know, trying to take away my
rights or something. I think those are the ones that
feel so hard because you want tolike, give to the people that
you like that. Or that's what I struggle with
the most is what you just made me realize.
Yeah, and that's the summary of the episode, kind of it's like,
it's like friends. Reaching out what we.
(01:00:00):
Were talking about earlier, that's so hard to say.
That's so hard to talk about. The fact that like we avoid
answering that call or calling somebody back and it's stressful
and it's something we kind of dread.
I don't know, I just think that's exactly what it's about.
It's like it's really hard because that's a person you like
(01:00:21):
and they like you and they want to talk to you or hang out with
you or whatever and you're having to navigate.
Well, I don't have capacity for that.
Like it's the hardest thing and that's why it's been hard for us
to even talk about. I feel like we've tried to talk
about this on episodes before and been like, I don't want to
like offend friends. We're not allowed.
(01:00:41):
Don't cancel. Maybe let's maybe not, let's not
go there. But this is the most relatable
thing, honestly, I think even for people who are not, you
know, in a position where they have tons and tons of friends
reaching out right now. Like there's some part of your
life where this is applicable, where you don't have capacity
and you're trying to figure out how to navigate that.
(01:01:05):
Like that's really what it comesdown to.
Wow, you were really like my what are what are the what are
those people called who like lead you up a mountain with a
llama? Oh yeah, like Emperor Kusko is.
That what they are Hold on he's.The guy from Who Leads You Up,
(01:01:26):
He's the llama. He's the llama I would be with.
Maybe I'd be Cronk. Crunk.
Wait, do you know what I'm talking about?
No, I'm just talking about my favorite one of my favorite
movies. Oh, it's like a is it a shaman?
I don't know if that's right, mywhole face and lips are peeling
(01:01:46):
and I just feel like shamans have their shit together when it
comes to their skin so. I'm so mad somebody listening
knows what I'm talking about. I'm.
Maybe it's a shaman. Shaman is like a medicine man.
I think that's different. That's why I brought up the
lips. I'm asking ChatGPT and it's like
buffering. So can somebody who's listening
(01:02:08):
leave a leave a message? This is why.
Comment on YouTube. This is why AI won't take our
jobs because we need a person totell us what this is called.
This is a Googleable thing. God damn it.
All right, Well, I can't know. Next week.
Yeah. OK.
Somebody let me know what it's called when there's like, the
kind of like person who leads you up Machu Picchu or like it's
(01:02:31):
kind of, I think they have llamas or they're your guide.
Yeah. OK, so next week we have coming
up the next episode in our dating series, the Hot Not
bothered summer dating series. Hot not bothered.
How to date without losing Your mind.
And let us be your llama guides.Well, we'll do our best, but we
(01:02:52):
might. That's why you were working so
hard to find it, because it works perfectly in this next in
that closer. Damn I'm.
Really annoying. I like llama guides.
You know, people have been, people have been adopting this
language around Kook University.So if anyone's new here, our
listeners have been dubbed the Kooks and we have merch that you
(01:03:14):
can you can find link down belowthat says Kook University.
It's a really cool sweatshirt. University.
And people. My dad wears.
It I love that your dad wears it.
My dad wears our lover and haterhats all, everywhere.
And what was I going to say? Oh, and people will like DM us
or e-mail us and say, hey, kooks, I am a senior at Kook
(01:03:35):
University or I'm a junior at Kook University.
It's very cute and it's their way of being like long time
listener, like I'm a senior or some people have been like, I
just found you. I'm a freshman.
It's so cute. I don't know how.
I don't think we've all talked about using that.
Language. I'm a senior at Kook.
University. That's so cute.
Cute so. I love that.
(01:03:58):
I don't know who's going to be our commencement speaker.
Our commencement speech is goingto be the next hot not bothered
or yeah, yeah, yeah. Or your dad or both.
OK. I'm still Googling this, I'm so
mad. Sherpa, Sherpa, Sherpa.
That's like a material that there was like a Sherpa trend
(01:04:19):
for couches and shit, right? Well I think it comes from
Sherpa can refer to both an ethnic group and type of fabric.
Sherpas are a Nepalese ethnic group known for their
mountaineering skills and cultural traditions.
So I think Sherpas, they are known for like 1 of the things
they're known for is like guiding you up a mountain.
And is there a lot depends. Must be.
(01:04:44):
Well, the hair comes from something.
I don't think it comes from the people.
Yeah. OK, OK, OK Sherpa mountain
guide. Many Sherpas are regarded as
highly elite Mountaineers and experts in their local area.
They were valuable to early explorers of the Himalayan
region, serving as guides through the extreme altitudes
among the peaks and passes in the region, particularly for
(01:05:08):
Mount Everest climbing expeditions.
Sherpa, you have been my Sherpa today.
I love that so much and it shoutout Peking podcast.
Go follow that. OK, bye, bye.
(01:05:29):
I'm so upset. All right, Apparently I made
this up. I did not make this up.
What?
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