March 17, 2025 • 35 mins
Ever wonder what your therapist really thinks about you? 🤔 In this episode of Not Your Therapist Podcast, licensed therapist Darrian Pelkey, MSW, LCSWA, joins me to spill the tea on what goes on behind the scenes in therapy.
We’re pulling back the curtain on the things therapists wish clients knew—from common misconceptions about therapy to what we actually think when you apologize for crying in session. If you’ve ever worried about being a “bad” client, overthought what you said after a session, or wondered if your therapist is judging you, this one’s for you.
What You’ll Learn in This Episode:
✅ The biggest myths about therapy (and why they’re totally wrong)
âś… How therapists really feel about late cancellations, oversharing, and ghosting
✅ Why your therapist isn’t sitting there analyzing your every word (seriously, we promise)
âś… The one thing therapists wish more clients understood about the process
✅ How to get the most out of therapy—without feeling awkward or self-conscious
Therapy is a judgment-free zone, but so many clients carry unnecessary guilt, shame, or uncertainty about the process. Let’s clear the air and make therapy feel less intimidating and more empowering.
👉 Ask me a question or suggest a topic hello@kaylareilly.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey, welcome to Not your Therapist If you are a
returning listener.
Thanks so much for coming back.
If you've never listened to anepisode before, what's up?
I'm Kayla.
I'm so glad you're here.
I'm a licensed therapist and wetalk about everything in my
spicy, fun manner.
Today, we're going to pull backthe curtain on therapy with my
(00:23):
friend and fellow therapist,darian, who also happens to be a
badass clinician at EvolutionWellness, my very own group
practice here in Wilmington.
Was that a shameless flex,abso-friggin-lutely.
Darian is one of those raretherapists who is both
incredibly passionate and takesher clinical work super
seriously.
Incredibly passionate and takesher clinical work super
(00:47):
seriously, but she hasn't losther approachable and fun self,
so she's basically the perfectperson for this conversation.
I think we're going to get realabout the bravery it takes to
be a client, why therapistsdon't have it all together yes,
we can be hotness expresscom aswell and why honesty and therapy
is the ultimate game changer.
(01:07):
Here's a little bit of a triggerwarning, though.
We do touch on working withsome cases involving sex
offenses, so if you're currentlydoing some trauma work around
this, you might want to skipthis one, or listen to it when
you do feel ready and nice andgrounded.
Oh, before you come for myaudio, you do feel ready and
nice and grounded.
Oh, before you come for myaudio.
(01:28):
Yeah, it's not that great.
I'm still figuring this wholepodcast thing out, but trust me,
this combo is still worth thelisten.
(01:53):
So, grab your coffee, take adeep breath.
It's like recording in progress.
You're like I'm nervous, allright.
So today, miss Darian, we'regoing to talk a little bit about
the misconceptions of therapy,and I'm so glad we're doing this
because I think, one, mediafucks up what we think therapy
(02:15):
is, and I think, two, there arebad therapists out there that
fuck up what people thinktherapy is.
And three, I just think a lotof times people make up stuff in
their brain about what theythink going to therapy is going
to look like, and it keeps themfrom coming in in the first
place.
Speaker 2 (02:35):
Yeah, I definitely agree with all of that.
Speaker 1 (02:37):
Yeah, so you've been seeing a lot of new clients
lately.
Talk to me about what it's likefor most of them, like coming
in.
Do you think some people arereally nervous and uncomfortable
?
Speaker 2 (02:50):
I do.
I think I see new clients comein who have never been to
therapy and they really portraythis concept that there's
there's something wrong withthem, but not a lot, and they
don't want to let me in andsometimes that can feel really
frustrating because I see themand just because you tell me
(03:10):
something that you may seem,that may seems really awful.
It's not.
You're still a human and it'sokay to have those feelings and
to feel, however you feel thatthere's no judgment in therapy
and I think a lot of peopledon't really understand that
until they're sitting on thecouch and they may have a couple
of sessions like, oh, thisperson isn't judging me.
Speaker 1 (03:31):
Yeah, that's really important too is that the
therapist isn't there to like,judge you or even tell you what
to do.
Do you think that's a commonmisconception when people come
in and they're like oh I'mreally unhappy in my job, but I
don't want to go to therapybecause she's going to tell me
to quit and I'm just not goingto do that right now.
Or the therapist is going totell me to leave my husband or
(03:52):
wife and I don't want to, so I'mnot going to go to therapy
because I don't want to hearthat.
Speaker 2 (03:57):
Yeah, and it's.
I mean, whatever you have tosay, it's safe to say it.
And that's what's so cool abouttherapy is it's almost like
there are no boundaries to yourthoughts and it's okay to
explore those.
Speaker 1 (04:10):
What about the myth?
Like therapists have all theanswers.
Speaker 2 (04:14):
Therapists do not have all the answers.
What's really fun sometimes andI say this very sarcastically
is sometimes the client that'ssitting on the couch is going
through the same exact thingthat I'm going through, and it's
like sometimes I feel like theyare looking at me, thinking I
have it all figured out and thereality is I don't either.
(04:37):
But having a place to processwhat's happening in your life,
that's where you do figure itout.
What's happening in your life,that's where you do figure it
out.
Speaker 1 (04:44):
What is the difference between seeing a
therapist or just like ventingto a friend, like having a
really safe friend?
Speaker 2 (04:52):
So this is funny because this is a conversation I
had with my husband.
He really argued with me thatyou know, being with my buddies
and talking to them, that'stherapeutic for me and I don't
really need to go to therapy.
I say that's really interesting.
I said I am a hundred percentsure that talking with your
friends is therapeutic, but whattreatment are you receiving
(05:15):
from that?
How are you getting better withwhatever problem you're
presenting?
What work are you putting in?
And he was really stunned andhe could not give me an answer.
And that's the differencebetween talking with a friend
and going to a therapist is yourfriends are going to make you
feel good they're supposed to,they're your friends.
But a therapist is going tohelp you process things, help
(05:39):
you work through them.
It's a safe place to exploreall the different options that
you have, whereas with yourfriends you may feel judged if
you are maybe even thinkingabout making a bad decision in
your life and, granted, yourfriends are going to tell you
you shouldn't do that.
But in therapy we're going totalk about why did you, why do
(06:00):
you want to make that choice,what's the outcome of it and how
is it going to benefit yourlife or your choices after
Totally yeah, I totally agreewith that.
Speaker 1 (06:13):
And also the skills training right.
Your friends aren't going tosay, oh well, I have the perfect
tool for that defensivestrategy of laughing every time
you're uncomfortable.
It's called right, likechallenging or riding the wave
of emotion.
Or hey, let's talk about thecognitive behavioral triangle
(06:34):
and I'm going to give youhomework.
Like, your friends are notdoing that.
Your friends are not developingyour skills and training you
and holding you accountable topracticing those skills in your
life, absolutely.
I think also, the other lenstoo is that your friends are
going to have bias because youare their person and therapists
(06:57):
are trained to like not have abias and to have a bias and to.
I talk a lot about how somepeople come in and they just
vent and they think that whatthey're going to receive is yeah
, you're right, they suck yourhusband's a piece of shit.
But a lot of times that's whatfriends will give you that
(07:21):
validation, no matter what.
And a therapist is going to saywhat's your part in it?
Or that's interesting that youalways come in here and try to
find somebody to blame.
Have you noticed that?
That's where your brainautomatically goes let's talk
about that.
That might be a defensemechanism.
Speaker 2 (07:40):
Yeah, I had a client recently who she did Granted,
we're new starting out ourrelationship, so a lot of
rapport building happening butshe came into session one day
and she's like I feel like Ishow up and I just didn't and I
don't feel like I'm actuallyputting in the work.
I said that's reallyinteresting.
You say that.
I said I also feel the same way, so let's do something about
(08:02):
this.
And I really startedintroducing CBT and we did the
thought log and at the end ofsession she goes I don't think
I've ever been this vulnerablewith anyone and I don't think
that I've said the things thatI've said today to myself as we
challenged those thoughts andthat was just it felt.
I felt really good leaving thatsession because I got to open
(08:26):
this other door for her andallowed her to really explore a
different side of herself.
Speaker 1 (08:31):
Oh my gosh, that's so powerful, well, and that's so
true.
Like we are trying to save facewith people in our lives like
friends and family members andeven our partners.
Like you don't want to tellyour partner that I don't know
sex is painful, or you find himunattractive because he doesn't
(08:52):
brush his teeth enough and youdon't want to hurt his feelings.
Like there's always a reasonwhy we're not totally open and
vulnerable with any one personin our lives.
But with a therapist who'strained to hold everything
private, not be judgmental, notbe biased, she can really, you
can.
Anybody can really discoverwhat are thoughts that are
(09:13):
coming up and what are beliefsthat I have about others and the
world and myself.
And that is so powerful.
How does that make you feelwhen you have a breakthrough
like that?
Speaker 2 (09:23):
I feel really good as a therapist, because sometimes
I question myself.
I'm like am I doing enough?
You know, am I really utilizingmy skill sets here?
What's blocking me?
And having a breakthrough likethat after a session?
I always take time to reflect.
I'll write down a couple ofwords that I feel after a
session and in that moment Iremember feeling really good
(09:47):
about myself and you know,therapy is not a race at all and
I felt wow, darian, you reallyslowed it down and you made the
session really meaningful.
Speaker 1 (09:59):
Well, I resonated with what you said about the
client telling you like thiswent really well.
Like you know, this was.
I have never been thisvulnerable.
I feel like that's notsomething therapists hear a lot,
so I think it's reallyempowering for us when we get
like a thank you card or anemail saying how much something
(10:20):
meant to us, or a review onGoogle mentioning us as a
therapist and how much we helpedyou.
That keeps us in the game.
Yeah, definitely.
Speaker 2 (10:29):
And we don't get that a lot.
I had this other client.
She came into session.
She said my husband's reallystarting to hear you.
He says I hear your therapistcoming out and to me that was
like the biggest thank you, likeI'm doing something right.
If you're going out of sessionand you're practicing what we
talk about and your spouse knows, that's all right with me.
Speaker 1 (10:52):
All right, what about ?
This isn't on our list, but Ithink this one comes up a lot
People who think they don'treally have a problem and it
keeps them from coming totherapy because they don't
really.
You know, they're anxioussometimes, but it's not an
anxiety disorder Like they'veGoogled it, and that's not.
What about that?
(11:14):
Do you feel like that's a goodreason to not come to therapy or
do you feel like we should likebust that one?
Speaker 2 (11:19):
I feel like you should come to therapy.
Because when people say that,my first question is always like
well, what will happen if youdo go to therapy?
If you're okay, what's going tohappen if you go?
Are you afraid that somethingelse might open up?
Or are you going to be told youknow, I don't think therapy is
(11:40):
helpful for you?
I feel like there's a fearthere.
And when someone says, oh, Idon't need therapy because I can
handle it, Okay, I am so gladthat you feel that way.
But what happens if you did go?
Speaker 1 (11:53):
Yes, or I like that.
What if we like?
Dropped it into anothermetaphor, like what if you, if
you feel healthy and you don'tgo to your primary care doctor
ever for your yearly likecheckups?
What if you actually do havethyroid problems or cancer or
(12:13):
but you don't have your bloodpanels so you have no idea, but
you feel okay, right, like a lotof times, their mental health
issues are like pain points thatmight feel uncomfortable or
might not, but they might bethere regardless.
Speaker 2 (12:29):
Yeah, and I noticed that, like admitting that you
need help with something, thatis a really difficult thing to
do because you're also on thesame track of admitting there's
a problem in my life and that'sreally hard to kind of have that
mirror looking back at you.
Speaker 1 (12:49):
So uncomfortable.
Well, and it's a really bravething to do to like come in and
open up and share about yourdarkest secrets, and you know
that's.
A myth, too, though, is thatyou have to like come in and
tell the worst things about youthe first session.
Like that is a big myth.
Speaker 2 (13:10):
Yeah, you definitely don't have to do that.
I noticed this when I firststepped into clinical practice
is the weeks.
At the end of the week I wouldfeel really honored and thankful
and I even shared this inclinical supervision like things
are going really well.
But most of all, I feel sohonored and so thankful that
(13:31):
people are comfortable to comein here and open up, even if
it's just about how shitty theirday was yesterday at work.
The space that they're allowingme to step into is incredible
and I know, as a therapist, likethat's my favorite feeling
doing this is knowing thatsomeone can let their guard down
just a little bit, oh my gosh.
Speaker 1 (13:53):
And it's the most intimate relationship some of us
have ever with therapists,because you can be your
unadulterated self.
I was thinking about a client Ihad once and man, I worked with
him for a year and the firstcouple of sessions he came in he
was so guarded, he was souncomfortable Fine, no pressure
(14:19):
whatever.
We just kind of chit-chattedabout sports and where he used
to live and very superficialthings.
And the more we worked together, the more he started to
disclose well, I have a secret.
I'm like, okay, and he's like,well, aren't you going to ask me
what the secret is?
Nope, you can tell me when youfeel like telling me.
I never asked really about youknow.
(14:41):
I would nudge here and therelike, hey, are you comfortable
talking about what it was likegrowing up?
And slowly he would unravelright, slowly, slowly, slowly.
And that's okay, becausebuilding trust and building
intimacy can be incrediblyuncomfortable and we honor
(15:03):
clients' pace, or we're supposedto.
Good therapists do so.
Anyways, I think we got a yearand a half into things and he
disclosed perpetrating a sexualoffense when he was a teenager.
Eventually, when he was super,super comfortable with me, he
was filled with remorse andshame.
(15:24):
It was one of those situationswhere they were fooling around
and he was flooded with histeenage testosterone and he knew
he pushed too hard and violateda boundary.
And he was waiting for me to bedisgusted with him, mad at him,
shaming him, right.
And I think the power for mewas being able to remind him
(15:51):
that there are behaviors andchoices that we make in our
lives, and then there's you as aperson, and that we can hold
love and value and respect forthe person, while not respecting
and being angry at and beingashamed of a choice or a
(16:14):
behavior.
We deal with that as moms everyday.
Right, like I love you as abeing, but you're being a little
shithead right now, and if youthrow that toy at your sister's
head one more time, I'm freakingout, right, but that doesn't
mean we don't love our children,and I think the same thing
happens at least for me.
I won't speak for you, but thesame thing happens for me is
(16:38):
I've had clients disclosebehaviors that they're not proud
of and I've always heard worse,typically, because we hear
thousands of people tell us theworst things they've ever done,
and I never think less of people.
I actually think more of peoplewhen they open up and they say
(16:59):
there's this thing I've done.
I'm not proud of it, I don'twant to be this way.
I know there's a reason why Ichose to behave that way or why
I didn't have the ability tostop my impulse, and I want to
change.
I want the tools to change.
It's like, yeah, we can both beangry at that choice you made,
or we can both be, you know,upset that you behaved in that
(17:24):
manner, and that doesn't takeaway from how much I value you
and respect you as a human being.
Speaker 2 (17:31):
Yeah, that's so true To me.
That's my favorite part aboutbeing a social worker is finding
that growth in myself, becauseyou know, in college I'm sure
everyone has had to write apaper about their bias, and I
remember writing my paper aboutpeople who have perpetrated on
(17:54):
children.
And lo and behold, I go into acareer where I'm working for
child protective services andthere was one point I was a
child forensic interviewer andhearing the stories of the
victims, I then came across onechild who was not only a victim
(18:15):
but also a perpetrator, and itwas in that moment when he
shared I don't want to do thisanymore.
I'll never forget that.
And that is where I really grewas a social worker to say, wow,
there are still people, thereare still humans and it's okay
to still show up for them.
(18:35):
And I think when we think aboutpeople who have done bad things
, they feel this need to shunthemselves or shame themselves.
But you don't have to do that.
I have so much respect forpeople who show up and say I
want to change, I know I didthis wrong and I want to make a
difference.
Speaker 1 (18:55):
Yeah, it takes so much courage.
Well and I'd put myself in thesame camp I have done things
that I am not proud of reallytruly, and it is hard telling
somebody that it is hard.
And it takes so much courageand it really takes intention
(19:15):
too.
You have to be doing it for apurpose.
You don't have to come to atherapist and tell us your
deepest, darkest secrets justbecause, in the case of my
client that I was talking aboutpreviously, it was because he
held on so much shame that hewas numbing, he was drinking,
and this was what 30 years later, 30 years after the behavior,
(19:43):
and it was like I need to learnhow to forgive myself and make
amends and be able to lay thisto rest so that I can be okay as
a man.
And how powerful is that?
And I say that that's anexample of a man, but there have
been plenty of examples ofwomen who've made interesting
choices.
I'm one of them.
It's okay, right, like there'sthis othering feel.
(20:05):
I think when you go in to see atherapist like I feel less than
you or I feel other and I thinkit's so powerful to dispel that
I've had.
Have you had bad therapists asa client?
Speaker 2 (20:19):
Yeah, oh man, yes, I went to a therapist one time and
I was going for individualtherapy but I also thought that
I might have ADHD.
So they sent me to someone thatcan test for that and in that
moment I had to share a veryintimate space with him and he
told me that, because I ameducated and got my master's
(20:43):
degree, that there's no way thatI could have ADHD.
And I said I remember leavingthat and I thought there's no
way that that is real, that itcan not be happening, and how
belittling like oh, if you can'tget a master's degree, then you
might have ADHD.
Yeah, I was so annoyed with thatand you know I tell my clients
(21:07):
all the time, especially in thatfirst session, like it's OK if
you don't jive with me, no hardfeelings at all, because I want
you to be successful even ifit's not with me.
And therapy is a lot likedating.
We may not mesh personalitywise and that's okay 100%.
Let me help you find somebodywho will.
Speaker 1 (21:27):
Yes, and I think that's the importance of
therapists like being supertransparent on their bios about
what their style is Like.
I was reading your bio beforethis connection and it feels
spot on Like it's a supportiveapproach.
You're compassionate, you wantto empower your client Like you
have a soft, gentle style.
(21:48):
I have a style that's rough,loud, obnoxious and goofy and
that fits my style and somepeople want that.
You want a ball buster and somepeople want a therapist who's
going to be gentle and soft andwarm and loving, like you.
Yeah, and that's okay.
(22:09):
I think that also takes anelement of self-awareness to
know what kind of therapist youneed, and the cool thing is you
don't have to figure it outbecause your feelings will tell
you.
If you go see Darian and you'relike, hmm, I think I need a
ball buster more than someonewarm, it's funny because my
husband and I both needcompletely opposite things.
(22:32):
I think his favorite therapistof all time was this elder woman
and she was a hippie and shewas sweet and soft-spoken and
warm and nurturing and Icouldn't stand it.
I need somebody who's going tobe like ka-ka-ka, like I don't
know more matches my energylevel.
(22:54):
However, I have had a therapistonce.
That was too much.
She was ka-ka-ka and at first Iwas like, okay, she's strong,
she's going to tell me what's up, she's going to confront my
behaviors, but she took it toofar and made me feel really
judged.
So I think there's a fine line,and also just giving people
permission to like what you justsaid, and also just giving
(23:16):
people permission to like whatyou just said.
This isn't a good fit.
Okay, I get it.
Speaker 2 (23:22):
Yeah, I have a couple of who I'm working with now and
they the wife had mentionedwanting to find individual
therapy and so she went to oneand she's like I, just I didn't
like her and I said that's okay.
I was like that's so fine.
I said what are you gonna donow and are you gonna look for
someone else?
You need help finding someoneelse.
(23:42):
And she, like really sat backand for a minute I thought she
said that she wasn't gonna findsomeone else and when I saw,
like I don't know, I felt thevibes, I saw her face, I said
know what I said?
Not every therapist is going tobe a match for you.
I went through five before Ifound someone that I was
comfortable with and it's okayto keep trying In the meantime.
(24:06):
Here are some resources thatcan help you.
She was having some anxietysymptoms.
I said let's find you somecoping skills, but let's also
find you someone else who mightbe a better fit.
Speaker 1 (24:21):
Yeah, like, don't give up on it, keep trying.
I think that's like the worstthing that people can do is and
let's be honest, there are a lotof therapists out there who
suck.
You're supposed to be unbiased,you're supposed to be
non-judgmental, you're supposedto be providing skills and tools
and an emotionally correctiveexperience, and you're supposed
to be guiding a client on thisjourney of healing, not just
(24:42):
chatting with them.
There's so much that goes intobeing a therapist.
I remember going out to dinnerwith my brother-in-law's.
Two of them and one of them waslike yeah, that's all therapy
is.
Is just like a person who'sgoing to be there and be
receptive and listen to you andI was so.
He didn't mean it poorly, but Iwas insulted and upset and I
(25:08):
carried that.
I still carry that to this day.
I'm not mad at him, matt, ifyou're listening.
It's not about you, bro, it'sabout the industry.
It's not about you, bro.
Speaker 2 (25:33):
It's about the industry, because if you've seen
as many therapists as he hasand you feel like all therapy is
is a listening ear, then thetherapists that you've seen have
done you a disservice andthey've done a disservice to the
field, because there's so muchmore that goes into it.
Yeah, and you know, even beinga therapist who wasn't a right
fit for somebody, theirtherapists make mistakes in
their practice.
They, oh my God, yeah, they tryreally hard.
I have been moments where I'vereally tried hard to show up for
a client but I just reallywasn't hitting the ball at all
(25:53):
and being able to acknowledgethat and say, hey, I'm really
concerned about our fit together.
What are you thinking about?
That was probably one of thehardest conversations I've had
to have, but it did good for you, like it felt really empowering
to also say my client comesfirst and no matter how hard I
want this to work, it's justit's not it good for you?
Speaker 1 (26:19):
you're a good therapist.
Thank you, I'm really trying.
It takes a good therapist to dothat, though, to have that
self-awareness and to swallowyour ego and your pride.
I've gotten fired more timesthan I'd like to say.
I've also sent apology lettersReally, oh yeah, I actually sent
one a year ago-ish selfish.
(26:47):
At the time I was going throughinfertility stuff and I was
seeing a client who had done abunch of rounds of IVF and she
decided to terminate her embryosbecause her and her husband
split up.
They were unsuccessful,whatever, but you can decide to
donate or you can decide toterminate them, and she decided
to terminate them, which istotally her right, and I 100%
(27:12):
understand that you don't wantyour children in the arms of
another woman when you'redealing with this devastating
grief, but I was going throughinfertility at the time, so I
totally had a bias and it cameright out my freaking mouth hole
and I was like what, why wouldyou do?
I said something judgmental andI carried that for so long and
(27:35):
I think about a year ago I satdown and I wrote her this
long-winded apology email abouthow terrible I felt and how that
was not right of me as atherapist and blah, blah, blah,
blah, blah blah.
She wrote back.
She's like I don't evenremember you saying that, but
thanks for saying that.
But I honestly that didn'timpact me like that at all.
(27:55):
But I appreciate you bringingthat up because it's so true
Like we can make mistakes and Ithink part of a really good
therapeutic relationship is onewhere a client can even say, hey
, this isn't working for me, oryou're pushing me a little bit
too hard, let's slow down.
(28:16):
Or hey, you gave me theseworksheets, I threw them away.
I'm not going to do worksheets.
Fuck your worksheets, that'sokay.
Yeah, like when you givefeedback to us, we can tailor
your treatment better to you.
And like, like that client saidthe other day to you like I
want to do, I want to talkskills.
Speaker 2 (28:36):
I love when clients provide feedback.
It feels good, even if it's notgood feedback.
It's constructive feedback andI'm not doing something the way
that they need.
I love when they have feedbackbecause it only helps me grow.
Speaker 1 (28:53):
That and you're never going to burden us.
It's not your job to take careof us as the therapists.
We have our own therapists forthat, or supervisors or
consultation groups withcolleagues.
Whatever it might be, we canhandle whatever and it's not
your job to think about us.
I remember a client severalclients being like I don't want
(29:16):
to overwhelm you, or I know I'ma lot, and it's like no, you're
not.
And no, you're not.
And you're pointing out rightnow something that we need to
tackle and punch in the face.
You're right, Taking care ofeveryone else.
This is an appointment aboutyou, not about me.
Yes, Real quick, because thisis a really funny question.
(29:42):
Why do clients sometimes ghosttheir therapists and why they
shouldn't?
Speaker 2 (29:49):
It's really funny because in one of your earlier
episodes you talk about ghostingclients or clients ghosting
therapists, and I've loved howyou tied it back to like their
attachment style and have you.
Is that how you really endrelationships?
What's going on there that youhave to go someone?
Why can't you have theconversation and say, hey, this
(30:10):
isn't working, I don't think Ineed to come anymore?
I think that that's one of myfavorite episodes.
By the way, oh, thank you.
I think clients should not ghosttheir therapist because, number
one, we're humans and we careabout our clients so much.
So when someone ghosts us, Ialways think, oh, my gosh, are
(30:34):
they OK?
Like, hopefully somethingdidn't happen to them.
Also, did they not get whatthey need?
I do kind of internalize alittle bit, but at the same time
, I have to say it's not aboutme.
They did it for a reason, but Ijust.
Ultimately, I think that theyshould not ghost their therapist
because what are you gettingout of that?
(30:55):
What are you avoiding with that?
And why can't we have theconversation?
If you come to me and tell me,hey, I don't think I want to
come to therapy anymore, okay,wonderful, what do you need for
me to support that, and do youknow when you're going to need
to come back or if you do wantto come back?
How are you going to approachthat?
I just want to make sure thatyou're okay and that you leave
(31:16):
okay.
Speaker 1 (31:17):
Yeah, 100%.
And like not missing thatopportunity to practice ending a
relationship in an effective,assertive way.
Yes, you don't have to be adick.
You also don't have to ghost.
You could even just send anemail.
If you're that uncomfortable,try sending an email.
(31:37):
Hey, this isn't feeling likeit's serving me anymore.
I just want you to know thatI've appreciated your efforts.
I'm going to move forward.
Thanks.
Speaker 2 (31:47):
Thanks, yeah, and one of my favorite things about
working here is the concept thatif someone ends therapy, that
doesn't mean that there'sanything wrong with you as a
therapist.
Right Just not the right style,not the right therapist for
that person, and that's okay.
Speaker 1 (32:05):
Being able to be told that is so freeing too it is,
and it takes a lot of pressureoff the therapist to be like
performative.
Yeah, you know we can feel thatas humans when other people are
like putting on for us.
I don't like that.
It feels ick to me.
It probably feels ick toeverybody else, right, all right
, if you could impart one nuggetof wisdom of this episode.
(32:30):
What's one big takeaway youwant clients to take away from
today?
Speaker 2 (32:35):
I want clients to take away that showing up to
therapy is one of the bravestthings that you could ever do.
But two show up as your true,authentic self, because that's
where you're really going to tapinto.
All the work that needs tohappen is when you're showing up
(32:56):
authentically, not afraid ofwhat the therapist is going to
think about you, Because as atherapist, we're not thinking,
oh, this person eats too much orthis person shouldn't do that.
We're really thinking how isthis connecting with their
emotions, their attachmentstyles?
What can we do to help them getwhere they want to be?
Speaker 1 (33:20):
That's a wrap on today's episode.
Y'all, if you're in NorthCarolina and you want to work
with Darian, head over toevolutionwellnessnccom or check
out her bio.
I'll link it in the show notesfor you.
And remember that you canalways find the show notes over
at kaylarileycom forward slashwhatever number the episode is.
In this case it's 14.
Kaylarileycom forward slash 14.
(33:41):
Real talk.
Darian stuck around after wewrapped up the show and shared
some seriously heartwarmingwords about our practice.
That had me in tears.
If you want to hear that, staytuned.
I added it to the end Shamelessself-promotion.
And next time we're going todive into breaking free from
diet culture with Emma, aUK-based dietician who
(34:01):
specializes in eating disorders.
She's brilliant.
I cannot wait for you to hearthe conversation I had with her.
It was fantastic.
Until next time, take care, andI'll catch you on the next show
.
Speaker 2 (34:17):
Yeah, and I'll say, like I have shouted it to the
rooftops how like healing it isto work here.
So I want to say thank you as ababy therapist, like I mean,
I've been in the field for awhile but being able to come
here and it's okay if I don'twork out with a client, it's
(34:37):
okay if I make a mistake,because I'm learning and I'm
growing and being able to showup to a space authentically and
know that I am going to makemistakes sometimes and there is
space for me to grow, like thatfeels really good and I feel
appreciated, not only as anemployee but just as a social
(34:59):
worker.
This is probably one of thefirst jobs I have felt so valued
and appreciated, with theentire way that this company is
set up to serve me.
Speaker 1 (35:10):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (35:11):
I think you've done an amazing job, like a super
incredible job here.
Speaker 1 (35:15):
Thank you so much.
Wow, I rarely get things likethat, so thank you, of course.
That really meant a lot to me.
Well, you just made my month.
Thank you Happy social workmonth too, by the way.
Hey, welcome to Not your Therapist If you are a
returning listener.
Thanks so much for coming back.
If you've never listened to anepisode before, what's up?
I'm Kayla.
I'm so glad you're here.
I'm a licensed therapist and wetalk about everything in my
spicy, fun manner.
Today, we're going to pull backthe curtain on therapy with my
(00:23):
friend and fellow therapist,darian, who also happens to be a
badass clinician at EvolutionWellness, my very own group
practice here in Wilmington.
Was that a shameless flex,abso-friggin-lutely.
Darian is one of those raretherapists who is both
incredibly passionate and takesher clinical work super
seriously.
Incredibly passionate and takesher clinical work super
(00:47):
seriously, but she hasn't losther approachable and fun self,
so she's basically the perfectperson for this conversation.
I think we're going to get realabout the bravery it takes to
be a client, why therapistsdon't have it all together yes,
we can be hotness expresscom aswell and why honesty and therapy
is the ultimate game changer.
(01:07):
Here's a little bit of a triggerwarning, though.
We do touch on working withsome cases involving sex
offenses, so if you're currentlydoing some trauma work around
this, you might want to skipthis one, or listen to it when
you do feel ready and nice andgrounded.
Oh, before you come for myaudio, you do feel ready and
nice and grounded.
Oh, before you come for myaudio.
(01:28):
Yeah, it's not that great.
I'm still figuring this wholepodcast thing out, but trust me,
this combo is still worth thelisten.
(01:53):
So, grab your coffee, take adeep breath.
It's like recording in progress.
You're like I'm nervous, allright.
So today, miss Darian, we'regoing to talk a little bit about
the misconceptions of therapy,and I'm so glad we're doing this
because I think, one, mediafucks up what we think therapy
(02:15):
is, and I think, two, there arebad therapists out there that
fuck up what people thinktherapy is.
And three, I just think a lotof times people make up stuff in
their brain about what theythink going to therapy is going
to look like, and it keeps themfrom coming in in the first
place.
Speaker 2 (02:35):
Yeah, I definitely agree with all of that.
Speaker 1 (02:37):
Yeah, so you've been seeing a lot of new clients
lately.
Talk to me about what it's likefor most of them, like coming
in.
Do you think some people arereally nervous and uncomfortable
?
Speaker 2 (02:50):
I do.
I think I see new clients comein who have never been to
therapy and they really portraythis concept that there's
there's something wrong withthem, but not a lot, and they
don't want to let me in andsometimes that can feel really
frustrating because I see themand just because you tell me
(03:10):
something that you may seem,that may seems really awful.
It's not.
You're still a human and it'sokay to have those feelings and
to feel, however you feel thatthere's no judgment in therapy
and I think a lot of peopledon't really understand that
until they're sitting on thecouch and they may have a couple
of sessions like, oh, thisperson isn't judging me.
Speaker 1 (03:31):
Yeah, that's really important too is that the
therapist isn't there to like,judge you or even tell you what
to do.
Do you think that's a commonmisconception when people come
in and they're like oh I'mreally unhappy in my job, but I
don't want to go to therapybecause she's going to tell me
to quit and I'm just not goingto do that right now.
Or the therapist is going totell me to leave my husband or
(03:52):
wife and I don't want to, so I'mnot going to go to therapy
because I don't want to hearthat.
Speaker 2 (03:57):
Yeah, and it's.
I mean, whatever you have tosay, it's safe to say it.
And that's what's so cool abouttherapy is it's almost like
there are no boundaries to yourthoughts and it's okay to
explore those.
Speaker 1 (04:10):
What about the myth?
Like therapists have all theanswers.
Speaker 2 (04:14):
Therapists do not have all the answers.
What's really fun sometimes andI say this very sarcastically
is sometimes the client that'ssitting on the couch is going
through the same exact thingthat I'm going through, and it's
like sometimes I feel like theyare looking at me, thinking I
have it all figured out and thereality is I don't either.
(04:37):
But having a place to processwhat's happening in your life,
that's where you do figure itout.
What's happening in your life,that's where you do figure it
out.
Speaker 1 (04:44):
What is the difference between seeing a
therapist or just like ventingto a friend, like having a
really safe friend?
Speaker 2 (04:52):
So this is funny because this is a conversation I
had with my husband.
He really argued with me thatyou know, being with my buddies
and talking to them, that'stherapeutic for me and I don't
really need to go to therapy.
I say that's really interesting.
I said I am a hundred percentsure that talking with your
friends is therapeutic, but whattreatment are you receiving
(05:15):
from that?
How are you getting better withwhatever problem you're
presenting?
What work are you putting in?
And he was really stunned andhe could not give me an answer.
And that's the differencebetween talking with a friend
and going to a therapist is yourfriends are going to make you
feel good they're supposed to,they're your friends.
But a therapist is going tohelp you process things, help
(05:39):
you work through them.
It's a safe place to exploreall the different options that
you have, whereas with yourfriends you may feel judged if
you are maybe even thinkingabout making a bad decision in
your life and, granted, yourfriends are going to tell you
you shouldn't do that.
But in therapy we're going totalk about why did you, why do
(06:00):
you want to make that choice,what's the outcome of it and how
is it going to benefit yourlife or your choices after
Totally yeah, I totally agreewith that.
Speaker 1 (06:13):
And also the skills training right.
Your friends aren't going tosay, oh well, I have the perfect
tool for that defensivestrategy of laughing every time
you're uncomfortable.
It's called right, likechallenging or riding the wave
of emotion.
Or hey, let's talk about thecognitive behavioral triangle
(06:34):
and I'm going to give youhomework.
Like, your friends are notdoing that.
Your friends are not developingyour skills and training you
and holding you accountable topracticing those skills in your
life, absolutely.
I think also, the other lenstoo is that your friends are
going to have bias because youare their person and therapists
(06:57):
are trained to like not have abias and to have a bias and to.
I talk a lot about how somepeople come in and they just
vent and they think that whatthey're going to receive is yeah
, you're right, they suck yourhusband's a piece of shit.
But a lot of times that's whatfriends will give you that
(07:21):
validation, no matter what.
And a therapist is going to saywhat's your part in it?
Or that's interesting that youalways come in here and try to
find somebody to blame.
Have you noticed that?
That's where your brainautomatically goes let's talk
about that.
That might be a defensemechanism.
Speaker 2 (07:40):
Yeah, I had a client recently who she did Granted,
we're new starting out ourrelationship, so a lot of
rapport building happening butshe came into session one day
and she's like I feel like Ishow up and I just didn't and I
don't feel like I'm actuallyputting in the work.
I said that's reallyinteresting.
You say that.
I said I also feel the same way, so let's do something about
(08:02):
this.
And I really startedintroducing CBT and we did the
thought log and at the end ofsession she goes I don't think
I've ever been this vulnerablewith anyone and I don't think
that I've said the things thatI've said today to myself as we
challenged those thoughts andthat was just it felt.
I felt really good leaving thatsession because I got to open
(08:26):
this other door for her andallowed her to really explore a
different side of herself.
Speaker 1 (08:31):
Oh my gosh, that's so powerful, well, and that's so
true.
Like we are trying to save facewith people in our lives like
friends and family members andeven our partners.
Like you don't want to tellyour partner that I don't know
sex is painful, or you find himunattractive because he doesn't
(08:52):
brush his teeth enough and youdon't want to hurt his feelings.
Like there's always a reasonwhy we're not totally open and
vulnerable with any one personin our lives.
But with a therapist who'strained to hold everything
private, not be judgmental, notbe biased, she can really, you
can.
Anybody can really discoverwhat are thoughts that are
(09:13):
coming up and what are beliefsthat I have about others and the
world and myself.
And that is so powerful.
How does that make you feelwhen you have a breakthrough
like that?
Speaker 2 (09:23):
I feel really good as a therapist, because sometimes
I question myself.
I'm like am I doing enough?
You know, am I really utilizingmy skill sets here?
What's blocking me?
And having a breakthrough likethat after a session?
I always take time to reflect.
I'll write down a couple ofwords that I feel after a
session and in that moment Iremember feeling really good
(09:47):
about myself and you know,therapy is not a race at all and
I felt wow, darian, you reallyslowed it down and you made the
session really meaningful.
Speaker 1 (09:59):
Well, I resonated with what you said about the
client telling you like thiswent really well.
Like you know, this was.
I have never been thisvulnerable.
I feel like that's notsomething therapists hear a lot,
so I think it's reallyempowering for us when we get
like a thank you card or anemail saying how much something
(10:20):
meant to us, or a review onGoogle mentioning us as a
therapist and how much we helpedyou.
That keeps us in the game.
Yeah, definitely.
Speaker 2 (10:29):
And we don't get that a lot.
I had this other client.
She came into session.
She said my husband's reallystarting to hear you.
He says I hear your therapistcoming out and to me that was
like the biggest thank you, likeI'm doing something right.
If you're going out of sessionand you're practicing what we
talk about and your spouse knows, that's all right with me.
Speaker 1 (10:52):
All right, what about ?
This isn't on our list, but Ithink this one comes up a lot
People who think they don'treally have a problem and it
keeps them from coming totherapy because they don't
really.
You know, they're anxioussometimes, but it's not an
anxiety disorder Like they'veGoogled it, and that's not.
What about that?
(11:14):
Do you feel like that's a goodreason to not come to therapy or
do you feel like we should likebust that one?
Speaker 2 (11:19):
I feel like you should come to therapy.
Because when people say that,my first question is always like
well, what will happen if youdo go to therapy?
If you're okay, what's going tohappen if you go?
Are you afraid that somethingelse might open up?
Or are you going to be told youknow, I don't think therapy is
(11:40):
helpful for you?
I feel like there's a fearthere.
And when someone says, oh, Idon't need therapy because I can
handle it, Okay, I am so gladthat you feel that way.
But what happens if you did go?
Speaker 1 (11:53):
Yes, or I like that.
What if we like?
Dropped it into anothermetaphor, like what if you, if
you feel healthy and you don'tgo to your primary care doctor
ever for your yearly likecheckups?
What if you actually do havethyroid problems or cancer or
(12:13):
but you don't have your bloodpanels so you have no idea, but
you feel okay, right, like a lotof times, their mental health
issues are like pain points thatmight feel uncomfortable or
might not, but they might bethere regardless.
Speaker 2 (12:29):
Yeah, and I noticed that, like admitting that you
need help with something, thatis a really difficult thing to
do because you're also on thesame track of admitting there's
a problem in my life and that'sreally hard to kind of have that
mirror looking back at you.
Speaker 1 (12:49):
So uncomfortable.
Well, and it's a really bravething to do to like come in and
open up and share about yourdarkest secrets, and you know
that's.
A myth, too, though, is thatyou have to like come in and
tell the worst things about youthe first session.
Like that is a big myth.
Speaker 2 (13:10):
Yeah, you definitely don't have to do that.
I noticed this when I firststepped into clinical practice
is the weeks.
At the end of the week I wouldfeel really honored and thankful
and I even shared this inclinical supervision like things
are going really well.
But most of all, I feel sohonored and so thankful that
(13:31):
people are comfortable to comein here and open up, even if
it's just about how shitty theirday was yesterday at work.
The space that they're allowingme to step into is incredible
and I know, as a therapist, likethat's my favorite feeling
doing this is knowing thatsomeone can let their guard down
just a little bit, oh my gosh.
Speaker 1 (13:53):
And it's the most intimate relationship some of us
have ever with therapists,because you can be your
unadulterated self.
I was thinking about a client Ihad once and man, I worked with
him for a year and the firstcouple of sessions he came in he
was so guarded, he was souncomfortable Fine, no pressure
(14:19):
whatever.
We just kind of chit-chattedabout sports and where he used
to live and very superficialthings.
And the more we worked together, the more he started to
disclose well, I have a secret.
I'm like, okay, and he's like,well, aren't you going to ask me
what the secret is?
Nope, you can tell me when youfeel like telling me.
I never asked really about youknow.
(14:41):
I would nudge here and therelike, hey, are you comfortable
talking about what it was likegrowing up?
And slowly he would unravelright, slowly, slowly, slowly.
And that's okay, becausebuilding trust and building
intimacy can be incrediblyuncomfortable and we honor
(15:03):
clients' pace, or we're supposedto.
Good therapists do so.
Anyways, I think we got a yearand a half into things and he
disclosed perpetrating a sexualoffense when he was a teenager.
Eventually, when he was super,super comfortable with me, he
was filled with remorse andshame.
(15:24):
It was one of those situationswhere they were fooling around
and he was flooded with histeenage testosterone and he knew
he pushed too hard and violateda boundary.
And he was waiting for me to bedisgusted with him, mad at him,
shaming him, right.
And I think the power for mewas being able to remind him
(15:51):
that there are behaviors andchoices that we make in our
lives, and then there's you as aperson, and that we can hold
love and value and respect forthe person, while not respecting
and being angry at and beingashamed of a choice or a
(16:14):
behavior.
We deal with that as moms everyday.
Right, like I love you as abeing, but you're being a little
shithead right now, and if youthrow that toy at your sister's
head one more time, I'm freakingout, right, but that doesn't
mean we don't love our children,and I think the same thing
happens at least for me.
I won't speak for you, but thesame thing happens for me is
(16:38):
I've had clients disclosebehaviors that they're not proud
of and I've always heard worse,typically, because we hear
thousands of people tell us theworst things they've ever done,
and I never think less of people.
I actually think more of peoplewhen they open up and they say
(16:59):
there's this thing I've done.
I'm not proud of it, I don'twant to be this way.
I know there's a reason why Ichose to behave that way or why
I didn't have the ability tostop my impulse, and I want to
change.
I want the tools to change.
It's like, yeah, we can both beangry at that choice you made,
or we can both be, you know,upset that you behaved in that
(17:24):
manner, and that doesn't takeaway from how much I value you
and respect you as a human being.
Speaker 2 (17:31):
Yeah, that's so true To me.
That's my favorite part aboutbeing a social worker is finding
that growth in myself, becauseyou know, in college I'm sure
everyone has had to write apaper about their bias, and I
remember writing my paper aboutpeople who have perpetrated on
(17:54):
children.
And lo and behold, I go into acareer where I'm working for
child protective services andthere was one point I was a
child forensic interviewer andhearing the stories of the
victims, I then came across onechild who was not only a victim
(18:15):
but also a perpetrator, and itwas in that moment when he
shared I don't want to do thisanymore.
I'll never forget that.
And that is where I really grewas a social worker to say, wow,
there are still people, thereare still humans and it's okay
to still show up for them.
(18:35):
And I think when we think aboutpeople who have done bad things
, they feel this need to shunthemselves or shame themselves.
But you don't have to do that.
I have so much respect forpeople who show up and say I
want to change, I know I didthis wrong and I want to make a
difference.
Speaker 1 (18:55):
Yeah, it takes so much courage.
Well and I'd put myself in thesame camp I have done things
that I am not proud of reallytruly, and it is hard telling
somebody that it is hard.
And it takes so much courageand it really takes intention
(19:15):
too.
You have to be doing it for apurpose.
You don't have to come to atherapist and tell us your
deepest, darkest secrets justbecause, in the case of my
client that I was talking aboutpreviously, it was because he
held on so much shame that hewas numbing, he was drinking,
and this was what 30 years later, 30 years after the behavior,
(19:43):
and it was like I need to learnhow to forgive myself and make
amends and be able to lay thisto rest so that I can be okay as
a man.
And how powerful is that?
And I say that that's anexample of a man, but there have
been plenty of examples ofwomen who've made interesting
choices.
I'm one of them.
It's okay, right, like there'sthis othering feel.
(20:05):
I think when you go in to see atherapist like I feel less than
you or I feel other and I thinkit's so powerful to dispel that
I've had.
Have you had bad therapists asa client?
Speaker 2 (20:19):
Yeah, oh man, yes, I went to a therapist one time and
I was going for individualtherapy but I also thought that
I might have ADHD.
So they sent me to someone thatcan test for that and in that
moment I had to share a veryintimate space with him and he
told me that, because I ameducated and got my master's
(20:43):
degree, that there's no way thatI could have ADHD.
And I said I remember leavingthat and I thought there's no
way that that is real, that itcan not be happening, and how
belittling like oh, if you can'tget a master's degree, then you
might have ADHD.
Yeah, I was so annoyed with thatand you know I tell my clients
(21:07):
all the time, especially in thatfirst session, like it's OK if
you don't jive with me, no hardfeelings at all, because I want
you to be successful even ifit's not with me.
And therapy is a lot likedating.
We may not mesh personalitywise and that's okay 100%.
Let me help you find somebodywho will.
Speaker 1 (21:27):
Yes, and I think that's the importance of
therapists like being supertransparent on their bios about
what their style is Like.
I was reading your bio beforethis connection and it feels
spot on Like it's a supportiveapproach.
You're compassionate, you wantto empower your client Like you
have a soft, gentle style.
(21:48):
I have a style that's rough,loud, obnoxious and goofy and
that fits my style and somepeople want that.
You want a ball buster and somepeople want a therapist who's
going to be gentle and soft andwarm and loving, like you.
Yeah, and that's okay.
(22:09):
I think that also takes anelement of self-awareness to
know what kind of therapist youneed, and the cool thing is you
don't have to figure it outbecause your feelings will tell
you.
If you go see Darian and you'relike, hmm, I think I need a
ball buster more than someonewarm, it's funny because my
husband and I both needcompletely opposite things.
(22:32):
I think his favorite therapistof all time was this elder woman
and she was a hippie and shewas sweet and soft-spoken and
warm and nurturing and Icouldn't stand it.
I need somebody who's going tobe like ka-ka-ka, like I don't
know more matches my energylevel.
(22:54):
However, I have had a therapistonce.
That was too much.
She was ka-ka-ka and at first Iwas like, okay, she's strong,
she's going to tell me what's up, she's going to confront my
behaviors, but she took it toofar and made me feel really
judged.
So I think there's a fine line,and also just giving people
permission to like what you justsaid, and also just giving
(23:16):
people permission to like whatyou just said.
This isn't a good fit.
Okay, I get it.
Speaker 2 (23:22):
Yeah, I have a couple of who I'm working with now and
they the wife had mentionedwanting to find individual
therapy and so she went to oneand she's like I, just I didn't
like her and I said that's okay.
I was like that's so fine.
I said what are you gonna donow and are you gonna look for
someone else?
You need help finding someoneelse.
(23:42):
And she, like really sat backand for a minute I thought she
said that she wasn't gonna findsomeone else and when I saw,
like I don't know, I felt thevibes, I saw her face, I said
know what I said?
Not every therapist is going tobe a match for you.
I went through five before Ifound someone that I was
comfortable with and it's okayto keep trying In the meantime.
(24:06):
Here are some resources thatcan help you.
She was having some anxietysymptoms.
I said let's find you somecoping skills, but let's also
find you someone else who mightbe a better fit.
Speaker 1 (24:21):
Yeah, like, don't give up on it, keep trying.
I think that's like the worstthing that people can do is and
let's be honest, there are a lotof therapists out there who
suck.
You're supposed to be unbiased,you're supposed to be
non-judgmental, you're supposedto be providing skills and tools
and an emotionally correctiveexperience, and you're supposed
to be guiding a client on thisjourney of healing, not just
(24:42):
chatting with them.
There's so much that goes intobeing a therapist.
I remember going out to dinnerwith my brother-in-law's.
Two of them and one of them waslike yeah, that's all therapy
is.
Is just like a person who'sgoing to be there and be
receptive and listen to you andI was so.
He didn't mean it poorly, but Iwas insulted and upset and I
(25:08):
carried that.
I still carry that to this day.
I'm not mad at him, matt, ifyou're listening.
It's not about you, bro, it'sabout the industry.
It's not about you, bro.
Speaker 2 (25:33):
It's about the industry, because if you've seen
as many therapists as he hasand you feel like all therapy is
is a listening ear, then thetherapists that you've seen have
done you a disservice andthey've done a disservice to the
field, because there's so muchmore that goes into it.
Yeah, and you know, even beinga therapist who wasn't a right
fit for somebody, theirtherapists make mistakes in
their practice.
They, oh my God, yeah, they tryreally hard.
I have been moments where I'vereally tried hard to show up for
a client but I just reallywasn't hitting the ball at all
(25:53):
and being able to acknowledgethat and say, hey, I'm really
concerned about our fit together.
What are you thinking about?
That was probably one of thehardest conversations I've had
to have, but it did good for you, like it felt really empowering
to also say my client comesfirst and no matter how hard I
want this to work, it's justit's not it good for you?
Speaker 1 (26:19):
you're a good therapist.
Thank you, I'm really trying.
It takes a good therapist to dothat, though, to have that
self-awareness and to swallowyour ego and your pride.
I've gotten fired more timesthan I'd like to say.
I've also sent apology lettersReally, oh yeah, I actually sent
one a year ago-ish selfish.
(26:47):
At the time I was going throughinfertility stuff and I was
seeing a client who had done abunch of rounds of IVF and she
decided to terminate her embryosbecause her and her husband
split up.
They were unsuccessful,whatever, but you can decide to
donate or you can decide toterminate them, and she decided
to terminate them, which istotally her right, and I 100%
(27:12):
understand that you don't wantyour children in the arms of
another woman when you'redealing with this devastating
grief, but I was going throughinfertility at the time, so I
totally had a bias and it cameright out my freaking mouth hole
and I was like what, why wouldyou do?
I said something judgmental andI carried that for so long and
(27:35):
I think about a year ago I satdown and I wrote her this
long-winded apology email abouthow terrible I felt and how that
was not right of me as atherapist and blah, blah, blah,
blah, blah blah.
She wrote back.
She's like I don't evenremember you saying that, but
thanks for saying that.
But I honestly that didn'timpact me like that at all.
(27:55):
But I appreciate you bringingthat up because it's so true
Like we can make mistakes and Ithink part of a really good
therapeutic relationship is onewhere a client can even say, hey
, this isn't working for me, oryou're pushing me a little bit
too hard, let's slow down.
(28:16):
Or hey, you gave me theseworksheets, I threw them away.
I'm not going to do worksheets.
Fuck your worksheets, that'sokay.
Yeah, like when you givefeedback to us, we can tailor
your treatment better to you.
And like, like that client saidthe other day to you like I
want to do, I want to talkskills.
Speaker 2 (28:36):
I love when clients provide feedback.
It feels good, even if it's notgood feedback.
It's constructive feedback andI'm not doing something the way
that they need.
I love when they have feedbackbecause it only helps me grow.
Speaker 1 (28:53):
That and you're never going to burden us.
It's not your job to take careof us as the therapists.
We have our own therapists forthat, or supervisors or
consultation groups withcolleagues.
Whatever it might be, we canhandle whatever and it's not
your job to think about us.
I remember a client severalclients being like I don't want
(29:16):
to overwhelm you, or I know I'ma lot, and it's like no, you're
not.
And no, you're not.
And you're pointing out rightnow something that we need to
tackle and punch in the face.
You're right, Taking care ofeveryone else.
This is an appointment aboutyou, not about me.
Yes, Real quick, because thisis a really funny question.
(29:42):
Why do clients sometimes ghosttheir therapists and why they
shouldn't?
Speaker 2 (29:49):
It's really funny because in one of your earlier
episodes you talk about ghostingclients or clients ghosting
therapists, and I've loved howyou tied it back to like their
attachment style and have you.
Is that how you really endrelationships?
What's going on there that youhave to go someone?
Why can't you have theconversation and say, hey, this
(30:10):
isn't working, I don't think Ineed to come anymore?
I think that that's one of myfavorite episodes.
By the way, oh, thank you.
I think clients should not ghosttheir therapist because, number
one, we're humans and we careabout our clients so much.
So when someone ghosts us, Ialways think, oh, my gosh, are
(30:34):
they OK?
Like, hopefully somethingdidn't happen to them.
Also, did they not get whatthey need?
I do kind of internalize alittle bit, but at the same time
, I have to say it's not aboutme.
They did it for a reason, but Ijust.
Ultimately, I think that theyshould not ghost their therapist
because what are you gettingout of that?
(30:55):
What are you avoiding with that?
And why can't we have theconversation?
If you come to me and tell me,hey, I don't think I want to
come to therapy anymore, okay,wonderful, what do you need for
me to support that, and do youknow when you're going to need
to come back or if you do wantto come back?
How are you going to approachthat?
I just want to make sure thatyou're okay and that you leave
(31:16):
okay.
Speaker 1 (31:17):
Yeah, 100%.
And like not missing thatopportunity to practice ending a
relationship in an effective,assertive way.
Yes, you don't have to be adick.
You also don't have to ghost.
You could even just send anemail.
If you're that uncomfortable,try sending an email.
(31:37):
Hey, this isn't feeling likeit's serving me anymore.
I just want you to know thatI've appreciated your efforts.
I'm going to move forward.
Thanks.
Speaker 2 (31:47):
Thanks, yeah, and one of my favorite things about
working here is the concept thatif someone ends therapy, that
doesn't mean that there'sanything wrong with you as a
therapist.
Right Just not the right style,not the right therapist for
that person, and that's okay.
Speaker 1 (32:05):
Being able to be told that is so freeing too it is,
and it takes a lot of pressureoff the therapist to be like
performative.
Yeah, you know we can feel thatas humans when other people are
like putting on for us.
I don't like that.
It feels ick to me.
It probably feels ick toeverybody else, right, all right
, if you could impart one nuggetof wisdom of this episode.
(32:30):
What's one big takeaway youwant clients to take away from
today?
Speaker 2 (32:35):
I want clients to take away that showing up to
therapy is one of the bravestthings that you could ever do.
But two show up as your true,authentic self, because that's
where you're really going to tapinto.
All the work that needs tohappen is when you're showing up
(32:56):
authentically, not afraid ofwhat the therapist is going to
think about you, Because as atherapist, we're not thinking,
oh, this person eats too much orthis person shouldn't do that.
We're really thinking how isthis connecting with their
emotions, their attachmentstyles?
What can we do to help them getwhere they want to be?
Speaker 1 (33:20):
That's a wrap on today's episode.
Y'all, if you're in NorthCarolina and you want to work
with Darian, head over toevolutionwellnessnccom or check
out her bio.
I'll link it in the show notesfor you.
And remember that you canalways find the show notes over
at kaylarileycom forward slashwhatever number the episode is.
In this case it's 14.
Kaylarileycom forward slash 14.
(33:41):
Real talk.
Darian stuck around after wewrapped up the show and shared
some seriously heartwarmingwords about our practice.
That had me in tears.
If you want to hear that, staytuned.
I added it to the end Shamelessself-promotion.
And next time we're going todive into breaking free from
diet culture with Emma, aUK-based dietician who
(34:01):
specializes in eating disorders.
She's brilliant.
I cannot wait for you to hearthe conversation I had with her.
It was fantastic.
Until next time, take care, andI'll catch you on the next show
.
Speaker 2 (34:17):
Yeah, and I'll say, like I have shouted it to the
rooftops how like healing it isto work here.
So I want to say thank you as ababy therapist, like I mean,
I've been in the field for awhile but being able to come
here and it's okay if I don'twork out with a client, it's
(34:37):
okay if I make a mistake,because I'm learning and I'm
growing and being able to showup to a space authentically and
know that I am going to makemistakes sometimes and there is
space for me to grow, like thatfeels really good and I feel
appreciated, not only as anemployee but just as a social
(34:59):
worker.
This is probably one of thefirst jobs I have felt so valued
and appreciated, with theentire way that this company is
set up to serve me.
Speaker 1 (35:10):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (35:11):
I think you've done an amazing job, like a super
incredible job here.
Speaker 1 (35:15):
Thank you so much.
Wow, I rarely get things likethat, so thank you, of course.
That really meant a lot to me.
Well, you just made my month.
Thank you Happy social workmonth too, by the way.
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