March 17, 2025 • 39 mins
Struggling with low libido? Feeling disconnected from your partner? You're not alone. In this episode of Not Your Therapist Podcast, licensed sex therapist Shie Benisti, LCSW, CST, joins us to break down the real reasons why sexual desire fluctuates—and what you can do to bring intimacy back.
We dive into the mental, emotional, and relational blocks that impact desire, including the role of stress, hormonal changes, and the mental load that disproportionately affects women. Shie also shares practical, no-BS strategies to shift from frazzled to fulfilled in your sex life.
What You’ll Learn in This Episode:
✅ Why libido isn’t static—and what naturally impacts desire over time
✅ How the mental load (work, kids, responsibilities) kills intimacy
✅ The surprising reason why “performance anxiety” makes things worse
✅ The connection between past trauma and sexual desire
✅ How to navigate mismatched libidos in a relationship
✅ Simple, science-backed ways to reignite intimacy
If you’ve ever wondered, “Why don’t I want sex anymore?” or “How do I get the spark back?”—this episode is for you.
👉 Grab your FREE Audio Training: Get Unstuck- 3 Strategies to Break Free from Unhealthy Patterns
👉 Follow me on social @notyourtherapist.kayla
👉 Ask me a question hello@kaylareilly.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
When was the last time you actually felt in the
mood?
If your answer is, uh, whatyear is it?
You are not alone.
Life happens.
Stress piles up, Netflix iseasier than ever and suddenly
your sex drive is MIA.
But before you start diagnosingyourself with a medical mystery
or going to file for divorce,take a breath.
(00:22):
You're not broken and yourlibido didn't just retire.
Today I'm joined by Shai Benisti, a licensed therapist who
specializes in sex therapy.
She helps people who havepelvic pain, she helps couples,
she works with individuals.
She does trauma therapy yeah,the best of the best, Because we
(00:44):
have the best of the best hereat Evolution Wellness, my very
own practice in North CarolinaFlexi Flex, Flex.
And there's a good reason.
She's our clinical director,y'all.
She's funny, she's smart andshe's the kind of boss lady that
you want to be friends with.
So if you ever thought, wait,did my sex drive?
Just ghost me?
This episode's for you.
(01:04):
Let's get into it.
All right.
The first question I want toask you that I didn't even put
on our sheet, is what's a sex?
Speaker 2 (01:19):
therapist?
Okay, that's a great question.
So a sex therapist is someonewho is educated in sexuality,
who can support someone insexual functioning, who has
skills and research-backed waysto support our clients.
They have a deeperunderstanding than your average
(01:41):
therapist would working withsexuality.
Speaker 1 (01:44):
Okay, that makes so much sense.
So you're not having sex withclients, you're not watching
clients have sex, you're nottouching their booty holes.
They, it's talk therapy.
Speaker 2 (01:54):
Talk therapy, and that is a common misconception,
I bet it is, because I bet it is.
Speaker 1 (02:03):
Um, I can't even imagine some of the calls that
our A-team has to screen.
Speaker 2 (02:11):
There's something called a sex surrogate, who is
someone who takes that place ofa sexual partner and helps
someone, maybe, who hasdifficulty with social
interactions, learn to engage insex.
But that is not a sex therapist, obviously.
That is a whole different realm.
It's outside of sex work too.
It's somewhere in the middle ofthe two.
Speaker 1 (02:33):
Ah, interesting, we're going to have to do a
whole other episode on that,because that is really
fascinating.
Speaker 2 (02:40):
Not legal in North Carolina.
Speaker 1 (02:42):
Ah well, well, for all those who are listening,
that we're going to try that.
Sorry for you.
Maybe in Amsterdam, yeah, whoknows?
Well, now that that's clearedup, I'm so glad to have you on
the podcast today because Ithink that sexuality can be a
taboo topic.
(03:02):
However, I think so many peoplestruggle with dwindling sex
drive Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (03:09):
That is something that I hear so often from
clients coming in wonderingwhat's wrong with me, what's
wrong with my relationship, whatis this change I'm experiencing
?
Speaker 1 (03:21):
Yeah, yeah Well, and I'm sure there are people all
over the board right, likepeople who aren't getting along
with their husband.
It kind of makes sense why Iwouldn't want to diddle you
Versus.
You know, I love my husband andI care about my husband.
We have a great relationship,but I'm not interested in sex,
or I'm sure there's people allover the map, so let's hop into
it.
My first question and this isgoing to be a spicy episode, I'm
(03:45):
really excited for it what aresome of the main reasons why,
like, someone's sexual drivemight fluctuate over time?
Speaker 2 (03:53):
Yeah, so so many of my clients are shocked when I
tell them just how many thingscan impact that.
So if we do a rapid fire kindof list some of the things that
I would list, there would behormonal changes, stress and
mental health, our relationshipdynamics, physical health and
lifestyle choices that we'remaking, how we're feeling about
(04:14):
our bodies like body image,self-esteem, past trauma, how we
were raised, life transition.
So it's a big ball.
It's a lot to consider and mostof the time it's not just one
thing.
Speaker 1 (04:29):
Oh, that makes sense.
Well, and it makes sense thatthings would change over the
span of your life, like indifferent seasons, postpartum or
getting older.
We're hitting our 40s.
Speaker 2 (04:42):
And that's a big time that a lot of women start to
see a change.
Speaker 1 (04:44):
And that's a big time that a lot of women start to
see a change.
Oh yeah, I'm sure.
Speaker 2 (04:51):
Well, you're hitting that, like perimenopause usually
starts between 35 and 45, rightyeah for a lot of women, not
for all Right, but for a lotRight.
Speaker 1 (04:56):
Okay, what's the most common age for perimenopause?
Do we know this?
Speaker 2 (05:06):
I don't have that statistic off the top of my head
.
Speaker 1 (05:07):
A lot of women who come into me are later 40s.
Okay, later 40s Lucky you ifthat's you.
Some of us are in our mid-30s,hitting it early, which isn't
pleasant, okay.
So I couldn't help but lookthis up after we recorded the
average age for perimetopause,which is the transition before
the full-blown menopause starts,between 40 and 44.
(05:29):
However, it can hit as early asyour mid-30s or as late as your
50s.
The biggest reason why your sexdrive drops is because your
estrogen drops.
So estrogen helps vaginaltissues stay healthy and
lubricated.
So when it dips, vaginaldryness and discomfort during
(05:49):
sex can increase.
Anyways, can you explain thedifference so I heard you say
things like hormones versus howyou feel, like how your mental
health is.
Can you help us understand,like the difference between
biological, psychological andmaybe like relationship factors
that impact your sexual drive?
Speaker 2 (06:11):
Yeah, so those are three of the major factors if
we're breaking it up intocategories.
So if we start with biological,that covers things like our
hormones, so testosterone,estrogen, which regulates our
desire.
In that same category we havethose neurotransmitters that we
hear about in our brain, right,Like dopamine.
That is that pleasure boostsmotivation.
(06:33):
Also, falling into biologicalwould be like that health
medication, energy levels thatall plays a role in libido.
Okay, that makes sense levels.
Speaker 1 (06:42):
That all plays a role in libido.
Okay, that makes sense.
Speaker 2 (06:43):
First bubble Second bubble psychological mental
health.
Body image, past trauma andsexual attitudes.
Like were we raised in ahyper-religious environment and
taught certain messages aboutsex, so low self-esteem all
those things can influence ourdesire level.
Speaker 1 (07:03):
So I'm thinking like your brothers walked in on you
masturbating and shamed you forit.
Exactly yeah.
Speaker 2 (07:09):
Now it's shameful to touch my genitals.
Yeah, okay, relationally is thelast one there.
So what's my um?
You know my emotional intimacy,my emotional connection, like
with my partner right now.
Are we high conflict?
Are we high stress?
That's the major mood killer.
I hear a lot of times like ifwe're not communicating, if
(07:32):
we're not getting along, it'sgoing down the drain that starts
outside the bedroom and a lotof my couples have a hard time
understanding that.
That we have to put in thateffort.
We can use our day as foreplayright To get to that place.
Speaker 1 (07:48):
Yeah, I love that.
Yeah, I love the saying that,like foreplay starts as soon as
you wake up in the morning.
Speaker 2 (07:54):
Love that Make a day spicy.
It doesn't have to all besexually explicit, it can just
be fun, light connecting.
Speaker 1 (08:01):
Oh, flirting, texting oh, I love that.
That is a lot of fun actuallywhen you go into those phases in
a relationship.
Yeah, let's talk about that.
Let's talk about relationshipdynamics, because I feel like
that's so true that a lot ofcouples that get like ground
into resentment and like angerand high conflict, or even maybe
(08:24):
couples that are justdisconnected in general, how
much do you see that likeplaying a part and like can you
maybe share your perspective onit?
Speaker 2 (08:32):
Yeah, so a lot of couples that come into me are in
this phase that we haven't beenhaving sex for quite some time.
We have all of this conflict inour relationship.
We feel so disconnected andlost.
We don't necessarily even knowhow to get back into the bedroom
at this point.
So if we're not feeling likewe're a team, like we're friends
(08:55):
with each other, like we'reromantic, we're not going to
gear towards the bedroom.
There's typically a lot offactors that go into it too, for
thinking about a relationship.
I mean, how many dynamics arethere in your relationship with
your partner?
Speaker 1 (09:11):
Oh my God, 700 million yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:13):
Partner, friend, mom, caregiver, sometimes right Like
that all gets blurred when ourmental load is heavy.
Right, that's one of the mainfactors I hear for a lot of
women when it comes to desirelevels.
There's this heavy mental loadthey're carrying for the entire
family.
Speaker 1 (09:31):
Oh yeah, Responsibility equals libido
killer for me big time.
Speaker 2 (09:36):
Yeah, and until we're really handling and managing
that, we're not going to getthat desire piece back to the
place we're hoping for it to be.
Speaker 1 (09:46):
Well, and it's interesting too, because I don't
know if this is true for othercouples, but I talk about it a
lot with my husband.
It's like I have to feel inlove and connected in order to
want sex, but he has to have sexin order to feel love and
closeness with me.
So we're like at this standoff,sometimes like this Mexican
(10:09):
standoff.
Do you think that's like acommon dynamic?
It?
Speaker 2 (10:13):
is.
So there's to get nerdy for amoment.
There's actually researchsurrounding this dual control
model of desire, dual controlmodel of arousal, and we all
have things that push us towardssex, which are those sexual
inhibitors of arousal.
And we all have things thatpush us towards sex, which are
those sexual inhibitors?
Or that gas pedal, and we havethings that push us farther away
from sex.
I'm sorry, those are inhibitors.
Or gas pedals are accelerator.
(10:35):
So pushing closer, pushing away.
So for your husband, maybewe're feeling disconnected,
maybe that's pushing him closerto sex.
That's an accelerator for him.
I want it.
I want it Make me closer.
Maybe for you, feelingdisconnected, I'm pushed farther
away from sex.
My gas pedal is pushed down tothe ground right now and I can't
even think about getting close,like if our gas, if our brake
(10:57):
pedals all the way down, we'rerevving the gas pedal, we're not
going anywhere.
We have to be able to let off ofthat.
We have to be able to let offof that break before we can get
that engine moving.
Speaker 1 (11:07):
That is such a good metaphor and I can.
I could see how that would makea bad-ass couples therapy
session.
Like identify your gas pedalsand identify your brake pedals
and like giving that to eachother.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:23):
A lot of desire and arousal is about understanding
what our gas pedal and our brakeis.
What gets us closer towardsintimacy?
What gets us farther away fromintimacy?
Speaker 1 (11:34):
It's interesting how maybe some things for one
partner would be a turnoff forright.
Like you have those competingdesires and those competing
needs, so do you ever do youexperience that a lot, where
people have to find a compromiseor like a balance with that?
Speaker 2 (11:51):
Absolutely and really when.
If we're talking about sextherapy, a lot of it is finding
balance and compromise, like ifwe're talking about desire right
now in libido, a lot of couplescome into me with a desire
differential, so one partner hasa higher desire level than the
other partner.
So higher desire, lower desire,neither is right or wrong, but
(12:12):
we have to meet in the middlesomewhere.
So it's finding that compromisebetween whatever those factors
are, to meet in the middle.
Speaker 1 (12:18):
Yeah, yeah, I love that Well, and I think a lot of
times it's pushed down as apriority for a lot of people, or
even like one partner versusthe other, right?
Like, oh well, sex isn't mypriority, I'm handling da, da,
da, da, da, da da and the otherpartner's like well, cool beans.
That's great that that's not apriority for you, but for me
it's like on the top, you know,it's in the top five of what I
(12:43):
got married for.
Speaker 2 (12:44):
So Absolutely Give it up, woman, and neither partner
is going to be happy.
Until we find a space inbetween, it can't be all or
nothing.
Speaker 1 (12:54):
Yeah yeah, finding that compromise is so important,
okay, so what are top desirekillers from your perspective of
your clients or like people ingeneral?
Speaker 2 (13:07):
Top desire killers are probably that mental load.
Yes, like discord with in yourrelationship or like unresolved
conflict, unresolved resentments.
For women, a really big one isfemale sexual pain, so pain
during intercourse, which makesus go farther away from that,
(13:31):
which isn't surprising.
If our brain is connectingsomething with being painful,
it's naturally going to try tolike move away from that thing,
and I think those are probablythe biggest pieces that I see.
Speaker 1 (13:46):
Okay, how common is sexual pain for women?
Speaker 2 (13:49):
Yeah, so it's reported by about 30% of women.
That's a lot, but it's believedthat it's a lot higher than
that.
Actually, it's something thatdoesn't get talked about a whole
lot, and if we are talkingabout women moving towards
menopause lot, and if we aretalking about women moving
towards menopause the, you know,physiologically the vagina
changes, the walls becomethinner, it doesn't lubricate as
(14:10):
well, so it's really reallycommon to experience pain during
that time.
But there's also other thingsthat can cause it, like trauma,
vaginismus.
So it can be somethinghappening for a lot of women and
they're not speaking up aboutit, so they're building this
natural resistance to sex.
Speaker 1 (14:29):
Mm, and I bet that's so frustrating for the partner
because it's really not thepartner's fault, right, but it's
a really vulnerable thing forwomen to have to like lean into
and address too.
Speaker 2 (14:41):
Yeah, Especially if it's not understood by your
partner.
Right?
Maybe you're worried we'regoing to be invalidated or told
something's wrong with us.
Speaker 1 (14:49):
Or like why don't you just go fix that?
Like oh, it's not that easy.
Have you ever seen a pelvicfloor physical therapist?
Because I have.
They put their finger in yourfudges.
Speaker 2 (15:00):
They sure do, and they do a good job.
Speaker 1 (15:02):
They do.
It's amazing actually.
Speaker 2 (15:05):
I haven't seen one personally, but I truly admire
the work that they do.
Speaker 1 (15:09):
I went and did prenatal treatment with a pelvic
floor and it blew my mind.
It was very, very uncomfortableat first, because who wants
somebody's finger in your nunas?
But she actually, like, taughtme what Kegels were.
She was the nicest human everand I think the biggest thing
that she taught me was thatpeeing every 20 seconds is not
(15:31):
normal.
Speaker 2 (15:33):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (15:34):
I was like huh, what do you mean?
Speaker 2 (15:35):
It's the pelvic floor , it's all the pelvic floor.
Speaker 1 (15:38):
She's like yeah, you're training it that way.
Okay, wow, okay.
And for pelvic pain or physicalpain when you're having sex,
that's something a sex therapisttreats too.
Pain when you're having sex,that's something a sex therapist
treats too.
Speaker 2 (15:54):
Yeah, so there's a combination.
Some of them are medical.
So if I have a clientpresenting for pelvic pain, I
always say have we talked to adoctor about this?
Have we gone to a pelvic floorPT?
Okay, if those boxes have beenchecked, we're looking at your
background.
Is there any trauma that you'veendured?
What are the messages you'vereceived about sex?
(16:17):
And we're treating it from amental health standpoint and
reframing those maybe thoughtsor healing from those traumas.
Speaker 1 (16:26):
Okay, that makes sense.
So you're kind of looking at itlike this big picture, holistic
, yeah, and yeah, very holistic,and you're wrapping in the
different specialists as needed.
So like you can't be a one-stopshop, but nobody can be.
No professional is a one-stopshop.
I don't know if you've ever hadright.
Like you have a medical issueand you get sent to three
(16:48):
different specialists to try tofigure it out oh yeah,
specialist to try to figure itout oh yeah, but your sex is
worth it.
Speaker 2 (16:55):
It is absolutely worth it, and having pleasurable
sex is worth it.
Speaker 1 (16:59):
Oh yes, Right next to food and sleep Relaxation.
There we go.
She went to relaxing, I went tospending money.
That's funny.
So let's talk a little bit moreabout, like, the stress and
mental load piece, because yousaid that earlier and I was like
(17:19):
I resonate with that, yeah.
Speaker 2 (17:23):
So I have a metaphor I use for that too.
So I like to think of our brainas a cup.
Right, and ideally in our cupthere's room for desire and
intimacy and maybe like a littlespontaneous fun.
But for so many people that arecarrying a heavy mental load,
their cup's already overflowing.
So if we're thinking about ourcup having a capacity, let's say
we have like work deadlines.
(17:44):
We're pouring a little bit intothat cup.
We have laundry piling up, likeadding another splash, keeping
track of everyone's like mealplans, appointments, schedules.
That cup is already at the brim.
Then we forget to send a workemail.
We're overflowing, right, soour cup is just to the max and
there's literally no space leftfor us to experience that libido
(18:05):
.
So we're in survival mode,fight or flight, just with that
cup full.
So in order to get back to thatplace we want to be, it's not
about just like forcing it,making yourself have sex.
It's actually about emptyingthat cup a little bit first.
Speaker 1 (18:22):
Oh, that makes a whole lot of sense.
Well, and it makes me thinkabout I think I did an episode,
maybe I didn't.
I wrote an episode aboutburnout and just how, if your
cup's been full for a long time,how it's not just as simple as
I don't know delegate dogwalking to a dog walker and get
(18:42):
on top of your laundry.
It's not that simple becauseyour body has to reset and it
takes time for your sympatheticnervous system to get used to
like, oh, my cup's not full allthe time, Like, okay, cool.
So that makes a lot of sense tome that it's not as simple as,
hey, let's take away yourarguments with your husband and
(19:05):
you're going to want to do thenasty all the time, Maybe not.
Speaker 2 (19:08):
Yeah, and this is where therapy can help, right
Like with setting boundaries,with learning those coping
skills.
That's what's also going tohelp your nervous system
readjust to that baseline,settle down, find some
consistency.
Speaker 1 (19:23):
I think, too, the issue that I see a lot in myself
and in clients I've worked withis just the like up and down
cycle of it.
Right, like your cup getsreally full and you know it, so
then you offload and then youmight have a little spontaneity,
a little sexy time, a littleintimacy, and then all of a
(19:43):
sudden you just kind of go rightback into it's like the winter
weight pattern.
In the winter I gained someweight, I let myself off the
hook, and then in the spring I'mworking out like crazy and I'm
eating salads, right.
Speaker 2 (19:56):
And you work with couples.
So you know that pattern oflike okay, I tell my partner
something's bothering me, theyfix it for a week and we're all
good, and then just slowlystarts to guide back into that
space unless we're consistentwith it.
Speaker 1 (20:10):
Yeah, yeah, and you really do need like an
accountability to over.
I like the words like default,right, we always fall back into
this comfortable default, andthat must be true for sexuality
too, because you said somethingearlier about sexual attitudes
that I thought was reallyinteresting.
Can you talk a little bit moreabout that?
Speaker 2 (20:31):
Yeah, so we are all raised in these ways where we
either have sexual education orwe don't get it at all.
Do we get it from school?
Do we get it from a religion?
Are our parents affectionate athome?
Do they talk about sex in agood way, in a bad way, like
that's where we start to developthat sexual attitude and then
(20:53):
our peers influence it, oursexual experiences influence it.
So it's this big thing thatgrows over time.
How we look at sex, what lensare we viewing it through?
Is it this positive, healthylens that, yeah, sex is
wonderful, it should be whateveranyone wants it to be.
Or is it, oh no, it's onlyreserved for procreation, or
(21:15):
it's only, you know, it's sinfulto have sex?
Speaker 1 (21:20):
Yeah, like dirty and wrong.
Speaker 2 (21:22):
Right yeah.
So how are we thinking about it?
Speaker 1 (21:24):
That attitude that we have, that's developed
throughout our life, probablyunconsciously- I think too, just
kind of like riffing off whatyou're saying, understanding
what sexual trauma might looklike.
It might not be that you weresexually offended on which?
Can I just say?
A stat right now that makes mecry yes, One in four women,
(21:48):
y'all one in four women aresexually offended on in their
lifetime Not necessarily rape,but touching or inappropriate,
you know, stalking, likewhatever.
One in four women, that is huge, it's giant.
And sexual trauma might notlook like that.
It might look like walking inon your parents, it might look
(22:09):
like I don't know what are otherexamples that maybe aren't as
obvious about sexual trauma?
Speaker 2 (22:17):
Yeah, so it may be stories that we've heard from
someone.
Oh wow, it might be a bestfriend of ours going through a
sexual assault.
Speaker 1 (22:31):
It might be A parent cheating on another parent, I
think is absolutely right.
Yeah, wow, okay.
So it goes really deep here Ourbeliefs about sexuality.
Speaker 2 (22:43):
Yeah, we don't always expect or necessarily think
about that can impact that.
Speaker 1 (22:48):
Here's a different lens.
What about performance anxietyand like pressure?
Speaker 2 (23:01):
Okay, so that is.
Performance is a word that Ireally, really hate in sex
therapy, and it's a word that Iwork with my clients to take out
of their sexual vocabularyentirely, because it kind of
sets us up in this way that it'sa show or it's a task, and
that's just not how desire works.
If we're thinking of it as aperformance, it's a task, and
that's just not how desire works.
If we're thinking of it as aperformance, it's actually going
to push us away from it.
So, yeah, so likewise, if we'relooking at it through this lens
(23:22):
of, um, oh, my gosh, I have toshow up a certain way for my
partner, or I have to have sexwith my partner today, or
they're going to be upset, orthey're not going to be happy
with me, then it's actuallypushing me farther away from sex
.
It's going to make my desireeven lower because of this
anxiety lens.
I'm seeing everything throughright.
(23:43):
If I get to the point of havingsex, it's going to be.
Am I doing this right?
Why don't I feel turned onright now, like, is my partner
happy?
And it totally just kills themood with all this mind shatter
that we have going on.
Speaker 1 (23:58):
Wow, that really blew my mind.
Performance is and that's likeone of the most common terms
when we think about like sexualfunctioning.
Is performance anxiety Right?
Speaker 2 (24:13):
And I to become a sex therapist, we have to have
supervision and I loved mysupervisor and she was someone
who really drilled into me likeokay, what are they performing
for?
What is this great performancethat we're on?
Like, where did this come from?
And for a lot of us it camefrom very naturally finding out
about sex through porn.
Right, like seeing porn, seeingthat performance.
(24:35):
You know porn is to life.
What a movie is, it's just thismedia that we're watching.
It's not true?
And so many people base theirsex lives on kind of what they
see through that lens or whatthey think it's supposed to look
like.
Speaker 1 (24:52):
Wow, talk to me more about a sex therapist
perspective on porn, because Iam not a sex therapist.
However, I've been exposed tosome of the ideas, and some of
the ideas that I've heard arelike porn addiction's not a real
thing and porn isn'tnecessarily bad.
(25:13):
So what tell me more about?
Like, do I, am I getting thatright, or what?
Speaker 2 (25:18):
Yeah, so sex therapy is research backed.
The research tells us thatnothing about watching porn or
masturbating is going to push usfarther away from sex, so it's
not going to decrease our sexdrive.
It's not going to make us wantto have sex with our partner.
Likewise, there's no evidencethat supports that there's this
(25:39):
chemical change to our brainlike there would be with another
kind of addiction.
We don't go through thiswithdrawal period if we stop
using porn.
That's why the addiction wordgets taken away In sex therapy.
What we refer to that as is outof control behavior.
And if something is out ofcontrol, that means that it's
impacting multiple areas of ourlife in a really unhealthy way.
(26:00):
So let's say, are you having togo to the bathroom at work and
watch porn just to get throughyour day?
Are you avoiding socialinteractions just to watch porn?
Are you spending $1,000 a monthon OnlyFans and you're not able
to pay your bills?
That's really when it becomesout of control sexual behavior.
I have clients come to mecalling it an addiction and I'm
(26:22):
never going to tell them theirverbiage is wrong.
I can only provide them withinformation and knowledge about
how it impacts our brain.
But in actuality, sextherapists, porn is a tool.
It can be used as a sexual aid.
It can be used to find whatkind of kinks we want to explore
.
It doesn't have to be seenthrough this negative lens, as
(26:44):
long as it's ethical porn.
Speaker 1 (26:46):
Okay, two things pop up for me with this topic of
conversation.
One is I have seen a lot ofcouples where and I'm not trying
to be sexist here, but this isjust the situation that I
experienced traumatizing pornand it's been really
(27:08):
traumatizing for the femalepartner.
She feels betrayed, she feelslike now she has this standard
that she can't live up to.
It brings on a lot ofinsecurity.
Speaker 2 (27:20):
Yeah, so when couples come into my office, something
we talk about is what theirrelationship contract is.
And for some couples arelationship contract means that
porn is not okay in ourrelationship.
We see that as infidelity, wesee that as being unfaithful.
For other couples it's hey, weonly watch porn together when
(27:40):
we're being intimate, as a kindof spicy zest that we're adding
to it.
And for others it's like hey,masturbation is normal, You're
going to masturbate, it's okayif you watch porn.
So in my eyes it's really hey,masturbation is normal, You're
going to masturbate, it's okayif you watch porn.
So in my eyes, it's really thisconversation that has to happen
.
Unfortunately, in our societyit's not a conversation that
happens naturally.
(28:01):
We're not taught by our parentsto have this conversation with
our partner about what's okayversus what's not okay.
So we build up a lot of theseexpectations that my partner
doesn't watch porn.
He wouldn't do that.
So then when we see it, it'svery traumatizing, right,
Because we have all of theseexpectations built up and it's
crushing that expectation thatwe have.
So that's kind of my view.
(28:22):
It doesn't invalidate thatpartner's feelings whatsoever,
because this was theirexpectation.
This was traumatic for them.
Okay, how do we reconcile?
What is the new contract thatwe're making in this
relationship for what's okayversus what's not okay?
How do we heal and move forward?
Speaker 1 (28:42):
Oh, I love that.
That's such a better way toview it.
Well and I think it'slegitimate to say that can be
traumatizing, Like what you said.
It's crushing your belief,which is a trauma.
It's very jarring.
So you might also need a littlebit of trauma therapy in order
to overcome that barrier beforeyou're willing to find a
(29:03):
compromise with your partnerabout what's allowed and what's
not allowed and maybe reenteringthe bedroom with your partner,
if that's something that wentaway after the experience.
Speaker 2 (29:13):
Absolutely, and I've had I think trauma therapy is a
really great point there I'vehad partners who compare it to
an infidelity and have reallydifficult time getting back in
the bedroom with their partner.
That's a totally normalreaction that their body's
having.
How do we process that?
How do we deal with that?
Speaker 1 (29:34):
The second thought that I had when we were talking
about this whole porn thing haveyou ever heard of oh my God yes
?
So oh my God, yes is a websitespecifically designed for women
and it's kind of porn, but notreally so.
It's women showing and talkingabout sex and showing like
different sexual moves andstimulation and words to help
(29:57):
other women get in tune withtheir sexuality and learn how to
talk about it and be okay withit and accept it.
So if you haven't heard of that, check it out.
I'm going to put it in the shownotes if you're looking for a
resource.
Speaker 2 (30:10):
I would love that, because in our society, women
aren't geared towards pleasure.
That's not what we're taught,that our experience is about.
It's about our male partner'spleasure, so I think that is a
really great resource for women.
Speaker 1 (30:22):
Yeah, well, I think it's changing right.
Like I'm looking at, there'sthis woman who does the reels,
where she's like sitting therewatching reels and she sees the
sexy man dancing and her kid'slike mom, what are you watching?
I was referring here to thesingle mom saga.
She's on TikTok.
She's on Instagram, she has herown merch and she's hilarious.
(30:45):
So when you're doing yournightly scroll, check her out
and have a good laugh, all right.
So when you're doing yournightly scroll, check her out
and have a good laugh, all right.
If someone's struggling withtheir sexual desire, if they're
resonating with this, if they'relike whoa, I feel personally
attacked because all of this isheading home.
What?
Speaker 2 (31:08):
would you suggest they do in order to start this
journey of like hey, I do wantto get my sex life back.
So first, what I want them todo is stop, take a deep breath,
remind yourself that you're okay.
This is more normal than youthink.
Second part of that the bestplace to start is really sitting
down, getting insightful,trying to figure out where this
dip is coming from.
Are you stressed?
Are you having relationshipissues?
(31:29):
Maybe are you at that lifepoint.
There's maybe some hormonalchanges going on.
What's your physical health like?
So kind of understanding itfrom that holistic lens.
Where is it coming from?
Next, maybe focusing onself-care changing some of those
factors I always say sleep,nutrition, moving our body those
(31:50):
are all factors that impactthat.
So if you're not doing thosethings well or caring for your
mental health, that's a greatplace to start addressing it.
So, self-care communicationwith your partner, you know,
maybe talking to your doctor andreaching out to a therapist If
(32:10):
you feel like this isn'tsomething that you know how to
address or it's notfigureoutable on your own.
Speaker 1 (32:17):
So what are some practical strategies couples can
use to prioritize theirintimacy without making it feel
like forced or ick.
Yeah, that's a great question.
Speaker 2 (32:26):
So I would love for them to focus on keeping it
natural and light, right, so nottreating intimacy like it's
another item on the to-do list.
So some practical things, right,like small moments throughout
the day, maybe little acts ofhand-holding, maybe we're giving
each other a small kiss aswe're passing each other in the
(32:47):
hallway, we're on the couch atthe night, maybe we're choosing
to sit next to each other versuson opposite ends of the couch.
It might sound simple, but it'sa way to kind of build that
connection, creating likerituals of connection.
I had a couple who createdsomething called TNT, which was
talk and tea time.
(33:07):
They made each other a glass oftea, they sat on the back porch
and they just talked, not aboutthe stress but about their life
, their dreams, each other, andthat was really reconnecting.
So having something like thatplanned right, um, being present
with each other, putting thephone down, turning the TV off,
(33:27):
turning towards each other andreally being emotionally
vulnerable and present with eachother in that moment, just
talking about sex, right,keeping an open communication
and being patient with eachother Nothing is going to kill
the drive more again thanfeeling pressured by your
partner that we got to get there, we got to have sex now.
(33:48):
Go, go go.
Speaker 1 (33:49):
I like Esther Perel's .
Like she talks about um.
She talks about reframing theconversation to what turns you
on.
So instead of labeling like hey, you need to brush your teeth
before you come into this dangbed, it's more like hey, it
turns me on when we come to bedand we smell good and we're
(34:12):
ready to touch.
Or like you're always on yourphone at night, it's like hey,
it turns me on when we put thephones down and we can turn
towards each other.
So I love that little reframeidea too of just kind of
focusing on what we do wantinstead of what we don't want.
Speaker 2 (34:27):
That positive reinforcement versus that
negative reinforcement.
Speaker 1 (34:32):
Well, especially with sexuality, it's such a
vulnerable thing.
I think that the minute someonefeels criticized, there's
nothing that's going to shut medown faster than criticizing me,
especially when it comes to mybody or you know, and once we've
been shut down once, how hardis it to come back from that a
(34:53):
lot harder than?
Yeah, a lot harder.
What did the Gottman say?
It's like a five to one ratiofive positives for every
negative.
So you say one negative thingand it outweighs five positives.
Speaker 2 (35:05):
So you have to like play the catch-up game yeah,
totally believe that, and Ithink it's also important, as
we're talking about, likepractical ways for couples to
kind of prioritize intimacywithout making it feel forced,
focusing on quality versusquantity, right, like, okay,
maybe we're not having sex everyday, every week, and when we
(35:29):
are having sex, is it qualitysex?
Are we really enjoying eachother and taking each other in,
and is that better than havingintimacy way more often, right?
Speaker 1 (35:40):
Oh my God.
Yes, I just think of the moviescenes where the woman's just
laying like a dead fish watchingTV while her husband's humping
her.
Speaker 2 (35:47):
It's like like not sexy.
Speaker 1 (35:50):
It's not a box to check off.
That is not hot at all.
Exactly that's good to hear,though, that a sex therapist
wouldn't be like okay, y'all aregoing to have sex every
Thursday.
Speaker 2 (36:01):
Yeah, and sometimes we do schedule sex right If a
couple's really havingdifficulty finding that space or
getting that time.
But ultimately that's not goingto be our goal.
Speaker 1 (36:11):
Oh yeah, we call it getting naked and seeing what
happens Beautiful, right Like ifit we're up to life and we
didn't prioritize it.
There's no way.
Like the kids and the choresand the hobby we both have
hobbies, we both have things, weboth have Right Like, at the
end of the night we have, I wantto scroll on the gram and be
(36:32):
left alone and not touched.
He wants to go upstairs and youknow, create music and do
whatever, watch football,whatever.
So to schedule it.
I know that some couples reallyresist that idea, like ew, what
that takes.
But if you have a life thatdoesn't lend itself to
spontaneity and free time, thenyou might need to schedule it in
(36:55):
your calendar absolutely andmake it something fun, make it
something light scheduling it.
Speaker 2 (37:01):
Don't just put scheduling sacks like I've had.
Couples call it really cutethings and like when they say it
, they're're like, oh okay, yeah, it's time for that and they
get excited, hot and steamynight.
Speaker 1 (37:13):
Exactly, yeah, shy, if you were going to give people
one nugget of advice, one pieceof wisdom that they were going
to take away from this episode,what would it be?
Speaker 2 (37:27):
Yeah, so desire.
It's not a switch that we canjust flip on and off right.
It's more like this slow cooker.
It takes time, it takes theright ingredients and a little
bit of patience to get us tothat place that we want to be.
So you know, it's really worthnurturing and, with the right
(37:48):
care and with the right supportand talking openly with your
partner and loving yourself,it's a place that we can get to.
Speaker 1 (38:00):
All right, that's a wrap.
We had fun, we had some laughsand hopefully we gave you a
fresh perspective and some solidideas for heating up your love
life or, at the very least, foremptying a little of your cup so
you can make more space forintimacy.
If sex has ever been painfulfor you in any way physically or
(38:22):
emotionally please know thatyou do not have to just deal
with it.
Pain during sex is not normaland you deserve pleasure,
comfort and connection.
Working with a sex therapistcan be a game changer and if
you're in North Carolina, shaiis the therapist to see.
You can find her and the restof our incredible team at
evolutionwellnessnccom.
(38:43):
And, while you're there, checkout some awesome freebies that
Shai herself has put together,like her conflict for couples
cheat sheet, because who doesn'tlove a good shortcut to get
better intimacy and lessconflict in your relationship?
Uh-huh, remember that your sexlife isn't over and you are not
broken.
You deserve joy, connection anda love life that actually feels
(39:06):
good.
Until next time, take care.
When was the last time you actually felt in the
mood?
If your answer is, uh, whatyear is it?
You are not alone.
Life happens.
Stress piles up, Netflix iseasier than ever and suddenly
your sex drive is MIA.
But before you start diagnosingyourself with a medical mystery
or going to file for divorce,take a breath.
(00:22):
You're not broken and yourlibido didn't just retire.
Today I'm joined by Shai Benisti, a licensed therapist who
specializes in sex therapy.
She helps people who havepelvic pain, she helps couples,
she works with individuals.
She does trauma therapy yeah,the best of the best, Because we
(00:44):
have the best of the best hereat Evolution Wellness, my very
own practice in North CarolinaFlexi Flex, Flex.
And there's a good reason.
She's our clinical director,y'all.
She's funny, she's smart andshe's the kind of boss lady that
you want to be friends with.
So if you ever thought, wait,did my sex drive?
Just ghost me?
This episode's for you.
(01:04):
Let's get into it.
All right.
The first question I want toask you that I didn't even put
on our sheet, is what's a sex?
Speaker 2 (01:19):
therapist?
Okay, that's a great question.
So a sex therapist is someonewho is educated in sexuality,
who can support someone insexual functioning, who has
skills and research-backed waysto support our clients.
They have a deeperunderstanding than your average
(01:41):
therapist would working withsexuality.
Speaker 1 (01:44):
Okay, that makes so much sense.
So you're not having sex withclients, you're not watching
clients have sex, you're nottouching their booty holes.
They, it's talk therapy.
Speaker 2 (01:54):
Talk therapy, and that is a common misconception,
I bet it is, because I bet it is.
Speaker 1 (02:03):
Um, I can't even imagine some of the calls that
our A-team has to screen.
Speaker 2 (02:11):
There's something called a sex surrogate, who is
someone who takes that place ofa sexual partner and helps
someone, maybe, who hasdifficulty with social
interactions, learn to engage insex.
But that is not a sex therapist, obviously.
That is a whole different realm.
It's outside of sex work too.
It's somewhere in the middle ofthe two.
Speaker 1 (02:33):
Ah, interesting, we're going to have to do a
whole other episode on that,because that is really
fascinating.
Speaker 2 (02:40):
Not legal in North Carolina.
Speaker 1 (02:42):
Ah well, well, for all those who are listening,
that we're going to try that.
Sorry for you.
Maybe in Amsterdam, yeah, whoknows?
Well, now that that's clearedup, I'm so glad to have you on
the podcast today because Ithink that sexuality can be a
taboo topic.
(03:02):
However, I think so many peoplestruggle with dwindling sex
drive Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (03:09):
That is something that I hear so often from
clients coming in wonderingwhat's wrong with me, what's
wrong with my relationship, whatis this change I'm experiencing
?
Speaker 1 (03:21):
Yeah, yeah Well, and I'm sure there are people all
over the board right, likepeople who aren't getting along
with their husband.
It kind of makes sense why Iwouldn't want to diddle you
Versus.
You know, I love my husband andI care about my husband.
We have a great relationship,but I'm not interested in sex,
or I'm sure there's people allover the map, so let's hop into
it.
My first question and this isgoing to be a spicy episode, I'm
(03:45):
really excited for it what aresome of the main reasons why,
like, someone's sexual drivemight fluctuate over time?
Speaker 2 (03:53):
Yeah, so so many of my clients are shocked when I
tell them just how many thingscan impact that.
So if we do a rapid fire kindof list some of the things that
I would list, there would behormonal changes, stress and
mental health, our relationshipdynamics, physical health and
lifestyle choices that we'remaking, how we're feeling about
(04:14):
our bodies like body image,self-esteem, past trauma, how we
were raised, life transition.
So it's a big ball.
It's a lot to consider and mostof the time it's not just one
thing.
Speaker 1 (04:29):
Oh, that makes sense.
Well, and it makes sense thatthings would change over the
span of your life, like indifferent seasons, postpartum or
getting older.
We're hitting our 40s.
Speaker 2 (04:42):
And that's a big time that a lot of women start to
see a change.
Speaker 1 (04:44):
And that's a big time that a lot of women start to
see a change.
Oh yeah, I'm sure.
Speaker 2 (04:51):
Well, you're hitting that, like perimenopause usually
starts between 35 and 45, rightyeah for a lot of women, not
for all Right, but for a lotRight.
Speaker 1 (04:56):
Okay, what's the most common age for perimenopause?
Do we know this?
Speaker 2 (05:06):
I don't have that statistic off the top of my head
.
Speaker 1 (05:07):
A lot of women who come into me are later 40s.
Okay, later 40s Lucky you ifthat's you.
Some of us are in our mid-30s,hitting it early, which isn't
pleasant, okay.
So I couldn't help but lookthis up after we recorded the
average age for perimetopause,which is the transition before
the full-blown menopause starts,between 40 and 44.
(05:29):
However, it can hit as early asyour mid-30s or as late as your
50s.
The biggest reason why your sexdrive drops is because your
estrogen drops.
So estrogen helps vaginaltissues stay healthy and
lubricated.
So when it dips, vaginaldryness and discomfort during
(05:49):
sex can increase.
Anyways, can you explain thedifference so I heard you say
things like hormones versus howyou feel, like how your mental
health is.
Can you help us understand,like the difference between
biological, psychological andmaybe like relationship factors
that impact your sexual drive?
Speaker 2 (06:11):
Yeah, so those are three of the major factors if
we're breaking it up intocategories.
So if we start with biological,that covers things like our
hormones, so testosterone,estrogen, which regulates our
desire.
In that same category we havethose neurotransmitters that we
hear about in our brain, right,Like dopamine.
That is that pleasure boostsmotivation.
(06:33):
Also, falling into biologicalwould be like that health
medication, energy levels thatall plays a role in libido.
Okay, that makes sense levels.
Speaker 1 (06:42):
That all plays a role in libido.
Okay, that makes sense.
Speaker 2 (06:43):
First bubble Second bubble psychological mental
health.
Body image, past trauma andsexual attitudes.
Like were we raised in ahyper-religious environment and
taught certain messages aboutsex, so low self-esteem all
those things can influence ourdesire level.
Speaker 1 (07:03):
So I'm thinking like your brothers walked in on you
masturbating and shamed you forit.
Exactly yeah.
Speaker 2 (07:09):
Now it's shameful to touch my genitals.
Yeah, okay, relationally is thelast one there.
So what's my um?
You know my emotional intimacy,my emotional connection, like
with my partner right now.
Are we high conflict?
Are we high stress?
That's the major mood killer.
I hear a lot of times like ifwe're not communicating, if
(07:32):
we're not getting along, it'sgoing down the drain that starts
outside the bedroom and a lotof my couples have a hard time
understanding that.
That we have to put in thateffort.
We can use our day as foreplayright To get to that place.
Speaker 1 (07:48):
Yeah, I love that.
Yeah, I love the saying that,like foreplay starts as soon as
you wake up in the morning.
Speaker 2 (07:54):
Love that Make a day spicy.
It doesn't have to all besexually explicit, it can just
be fun, light connecting.
Speaker 1 (08:01):
Oh, flirting, texting oh, I love that.
That is a lot of fun actuallywhen you go into those phases in
a relationship.
Yeah, let's talk about that.
Let's talk about relationshipdynamics, because I feel like
that's so true that a lot ofcouples that get like ground
into resentment and like angerand high conflict, or even maybe
(08:24):
couples that are justdisconnected in general, how
much do you see that likeplaying a part and like can you
maybe share your perspective onit?
Speaker 2 (08:32):
Yeah, so a lot of couples that come into me are in
this phase that we haven't beenhaving sex for quite some time.
We have all of this conflict inour relationship.
We feel so disconnected andlost.
We don't necessarily even knowhow to get back into the bedroom
at this point.
So if we're not feeling likewe're a team, like we're friends
(08:55):
with each other, like we'reromantic, we're not going to
gear towards the bedroom.
There's typically a lot offactors that go into it too, for
thinking about a relationship.
I mean, how many dynamics arethere in your relationship with
your partner?
Speaker 1 (09:11):
Oh my God, 700 million yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:13):
Partner, friend, mom, caregiver, sometimes right Like
that all gets blurred when ourmental load is heavy.
Right, that's one of the mainfactors I hear for a lot of
women when it comes to desirelevels.
There's this heavy mental loadthey're carrying for the entire
family.
Speaker 1 (09:31):
Oh yeah, Responsibility equals libido
killer for me big time.
Speaker 2 (09:36):
Yeah, and until we're really handling and managing
that, we're not going to getthat desire piece back to the
place we're hoping for it to be.
Speaker 1 (09:46):
Well, and it's interesting too, because I don't
know if this is true for othercouples, but I talk about it a
lot with my husband.
It's like I have to feel inlove and connected in order to
want sex, but he has to have sexin order to feel love and
closeness with me.
So we're like at this standoff,sometimes like this Mexican
(10:09):
standoff.
Do you think that's like acommon dynamic?
It?
Speaker 2 (10:13):
is.
So there's to get nerdy for amoment.
There's actually researchsurrounding this dual control
model of desire, dual controlmodel of arousal, and we all
have things that push us towardssex, which are those sexual
inhibitors of arousal.
And we all have things thatpush us towards sex, which are
those sexual inhibitors?
Or that gas pedal, and we havethings that push us farther away
from sex.
I'm sorry, those are inhibitors.
Or gas pedals are accelerator.
(10:35):
So pushing closer, pushing away.
So for your husband, maybewe're feeling disconnected,
maybe that's pushing him closerto sex.
That's an accelerator for him.
I want it.
I want it Make me closer.
Maybe for you, feelingdisconnected, I'm pushed farther
away from sex.
My gas pedal is pushed down tothe ground right now and I can't
even think about getting close,like if our gas, if our brake
(10:57):
pedals all the way down, we'rerevving the gas pedal, we're not
going anywhere.
We have to be able to let off ofthat.
We have to be able to let offof that break before we can get
that engine moving.
Speaker 1 (11:07):
That is such a good metaphor and I can.
I could see how that would makea bad-ass couples therapy
session.
Like identify your gas pedalsand identify your brake pedals
and like giving that to eachother.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:23):
A lot of desire and arousal is about understanding
what our gas pedal and our brakeis.
What gets us closer towardsintimacy?
What gets us farther away fromintimacy?
Speaker 1 (11:34):
It's interesting how maybe some things for one
partner would be a turnoff forright.
Like you have those competingdesires and those competing
needs, so do you ever do youexperience that a lot, where
people have to find a compromiseor like a balance with that?
Speaker 2 (11:51):
Absolutely and really when.
If we're talking about sextherapy, a lot of it is finding
balance and compromise, like ifwe're talking about desire right
now in libido, a lot of couplescome into me with a desire
differential, so one partner hasa higher desire level than the
other partner.
So higher desire, lower desire,neither is right or wrong, but
(12:12):
we have to meet in the middlesomewhere.
So it's finding that compromisebetween whatever those factors
are, to meet in the middle.
Speaker 1 (12:18):
Yeah, yeah, I love that Well, and I think a lot of
times it's pushed down as apriority for a lot of people, or
even like one partner versusthe other, right?
Like, oh well, sex isn't mypriority, I'm handling da, da,
da, da, da, da da and the otherpartner's like well, cool beans.
That's great that that's not apriority for you, but for me
it's like on the top, you know,it's in the top five of what I
(12:43):
got married for.
Speaker 2 (12:44):
So Absolutely Give it up, woman, and neither partner
is going to be happy.
Until we find a space inbetween, it can't be all or
nothing.
Speaker 1 (12:54):
Yeah yeah, finding that compromise is so important,
okay, so what are top desirekillers from your perspective of
your clients or like people ingeneral?
Speaker 2 (13:07):
Top desire killers are probably that mental load.
Yes, like discord with in yourrelationship or like unresolved
conflict, unresolved resentments.
For women, a really big one isfemale sexual pain, so pain
during intercourse, which makesus go farther away from that,
(13:31):
which isn't surprising.
If our brain is connectingsomething with being painful,
it's naturally going to try tolike move away from that thing,
and I think those are probablythe biggest pieces that I see.
Speaker 1 (13:46):
Okay, how common is sexual pain for women?
Speaker 2 (13:49):
Yeah, so it's reported by about 30% of women.
That's a lot, but it's believedthat it's a lot higher than
that.
Actually, it's something thatdoesn't get talked about a whole
lot, and if we are talkingabout women moving towards
menopause lot, and if we aretalking about women moving
towards menopause the, you know,physiologically the vagina
changes, the walls becomethinner, it doesn't lubricate as
(14:10):
well, so it's really reallycommon to experience pain during
that time.
But there's also other thingsthat can cause it, like trauma,
vaginismus.
So it can be somethinghappening for a lot of women and
they're not speaking up aboutit, so they're building this
natural resistance to sex.
Speaker 1 (14:29):
Mm, and I bet that's so frustrating for the partner
because it's really not thepartner's fault, right, but it's
a really vulnerable thing forwomen to have to like lean into
and address too.
Speaker 2 (14:41):
Yeah, Especially if it's not understood by your
partner.
Right?
Maybe you're worried we'regoing to be invalidated or told
something's wrong with us.
Speaker 1 (14:49):
Or like why don't you just go fix that?
Like oh, it's not that easy.
Have you ever seen a pelvicfloor physical therapist?
Because I have.
They put their finger in yourfudges.
Speaker 2 (15:00):
They sure do, and they do a good job.
Speaker 1 (15:02):
They do.
It's amazing actually.
Speaker 2 (15:05):
I haven't seen one personally, but I truly admire
the work that they do.
Speaker 1 (15:09):
I went and did prenatal treatment with a pelvic
floor and it blew my mind.
It was very, very uncomfortableat first, because who wants
somebody's finger in your nunas?
But she actually, like, taughtme what Kegels were.
She was the nicest human everand I think the biggest thing
that she taught me was thatpeeing every 20 seconds is not
(15:31):
normal.
Speaker 2 (15:33):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (15:34):
I was like huh, what do you mean?
Speaker 2 (15:35):
It's the pelvic floor , it's all the pelvic floor.
Speaker 1 (15:38):
She's like yeah, you're training it that way.
Okay, wow, okay.
And for pelvic pain or physicalpain when you're having sex,
that's something a sex therapisttreats too.
Pain when you're having sex,that's something a sex therapist
treats too.
Speaker 2 (15:54):
Yeah, so there's a combination.
Some of them are medical.
So if I have a clientpresenting for pelvic pain, I
always say have we talked to adoctor about this?
Have we gone to a pelvic floorPT?
Okay, if those boxes have beenchecked, we're looking at your
background.
Is there any trauma that you'veendured?
What are the messages you'vereceived about sex?
(16:17):
And we're treating it from amental health standpoint and
reframing those maybe thoughtsor healing from those traumas.
Speaker 1 (16:26):
Okay, that makes sense.
So you're kind of looking at itlike this big picture, holistic
, yeah, and yeah, very holistic,and you're wrapping in the
different specialists as needed.
So like you can't be a one-stopshop, but nobody can be.
No professional is a one-stopshop.
I don't know if you've ever hadright.
Like you have a medical issueand you get sent to three
(16:48):
different specialists to try tofigure it out oh yeah,
specialist to try to figure itout oh yeah, but your sex is
worth it.
Speaker 2 (16:55):
It is absolutely worth it, and having pleasurable
sex is worth it.
Speaker 1 (16:59):
Oh yes, Right next to food and sleep Relaxation.
There we go.
She went to relaxing, I went tospending money.
That's funny.
So let's talk a little bit moreabout, like, the stress and
mental load piece, because yousaid that earlier and I was like
(17:19):
I resonate with that, yeah.
Speaker 2 (17:23):
So I have a metaphor I use for that too.
So I like to think of our brainas a cup.
Right, and ideally in our cupthere's room for desire and
intimacy and maybe like a littlespontaneous fun.
But for so many people that arecarrying a heavy mental load,
their cup's already overflowing.
So if we're thinking about ourcup having a capacity, let's say
we have like work deadlines.
(17:44):
We're pouring a little bit intothat cup.
We have laundry piling up, likeadding another splash, keeping
track of everyone's like mealplans, appointments, schedules.
That cup is already at the brim.
Then we forget to send a workemail.
We're overflowing, right, soour cup is just to the max and
there's literally no space leftfor us to experience that libido
(18:05):
.
So we're in survival mode,fight or flight, just with that
cup full.
So in order to get back to thatplace we want to be, it's not
about just like forcing it,making yourself have sex.
It's actually about emptyingthat cup a little bit first.
Speaker 1 (18:22):
Oh, that makes a whole lot of sense.
Well, and it makes me thinkabout I think I did an episode,
maybe I didn't.
I wrote an episode aboutburnout and just how, if your
cup's been full for a long time,how it's not just as simple as
I don't know delegate dogwalking to a dog walker and get
(18:42):
on top of your laundry.
It's not that simple becauseyour body has to reset and it
takes time for your sympatheticnervous system to get used to
like, oh, my cup's not full allthe time, Like, okay, cool.
So that makes a lot of sense tome that it's not as simple as,
hey, let's take away yourarguments with your husband and
(19:05):
you're going to want to do thenasty all the time, Maybe not.
Speaker 2 (19:08):
Yeah, and this is where therapy can help, right
Like with setting boundaries,with learning those coping
skills.
That's what's also going tohelp your nervous system
readjust to that baseline,settle down, find some
consistency.
Speaker 1 (19:23):
I think, too, the issue that I see a lot in myself
and in clients I've worked withis just the like up and down
cycle of it.
Right, like your cup getsreally full and you know it, so
then you offload and then youmight have a little spontaneity,
a little sexy time, a littleintimacy, and then all of a
(19:43):
sudden you just kind of go rightback into it's like the winter
weight pattern.
In the winter I gained someweight, I let myself off the
hook, and then in the spring I'mworking out like crazy and I'm
eating salads, right.
Speaker 2 (19:56):
And you work with couples.
So you know that pattern oflike okay, I tell my partner
something's bothering me, theyfix it for a week and we're all
good, and then just slowlystarts to guide back into that
space unless we're consistentwith it.
Speaker 1 (20:10):
Yeah, yeah, and you really do need like an
accountability to over.
I like the words like default,right, we always fall back into
this comfortable default, andthat must be true for sexuality
too, because you said somethingearlier about sexual attitudes
that I thought was reallyinteresting.
Can you talk a little bit moreabout that?
Speaker 2 (20:31):
Yeah, so we are all raised in these ways where we
either have sexual education orwe don't get it at all.
Do we get it from school?
Do we get it from a religion?
Are our parents affectionate athome?
Do they talk about sex in agood way, in a bad way, like
that's where we start to developthat sexual attitude and then
(20:53):
our peers influence it, oursexual experiences influence it.
So it's this big thing thatgrows over time.
How we look at sex, what lensare we viewing it through?
Is it this positive, healthylens that, yeah, sex is
wonderful, it should be whateveranyone wants it to be.
Or is it, oh no, it's onlyreserved for procreation, or
(21:15):
it's only, you know, it's sinfulto have sex?
Speaker 1 (21:20):
Yeah, like dirty and wrong.
Speaker 2 (21:22):
Right yeah.
So how are we thinking about it?
Speaker 1 (21:24):
That attitude that we have, that's developed
throughout our life, probablyunconsciously- I think too, just
kind of like riffing off whatyou're saying, understanding
what sexual trauma might looklike.
It might not be that you weresexually offended on which?
Can I just say?
A stat right now that makes mecry yes, One in four women,
(21:48):
y'all one in four women aresexually offended on in their
lifetime Not necessarily rape,but touching or inappropriate,
you know, stalking, likewhatever.
One in four women, that is huge, it's giant.
And sexual trauma might notlook like that.
It might look like walking inon your parents, it might look
(22:09):
like I don't know what are otherexamples that maybe aren't as
obvious about sexual trauma?
Speaker 2 (22:17):
Yeah, so it may be stories that we've heard from
someone.
Oh wow, it might be a bestfriend of ours going through a
sexual assault.
Speaker 1 (22:31):
It might be A parent cheating on another parent, I
think is absolutely right.
Yeah, wow, okay.
So it goes really deep here Ourbeliefs about sexuality.
Speaker 2 (22:43):
Yeah, we don't always expect or necessarily think
about that can impact that.
Speaker 1 (22:48):
Here's a different lens.
What about performance anxietyand like pressure?
Speaker 2 (23:01):
Okay, so that is.
Performance is a word that Ireally, really hate in sex
therapy, and it's a word that Iwork with my clients to take out
of their sexual vocabularyentirely, because it kind of
sets us up in this way that it'sa show or it's a task, and
that's just not how desire works.
If we're thinking of it as aperformance, it's a task, and
that's just not how desire works.
If we're thinking of it as aperformance, it's actually going
to push us away from it.
So, yeah, so likewise, if we'relooking at it through this lens
(23:22):
of, um, oh, my gosh, I have toshow up a certain way for my
partner, or I have to have sexwith my partner today, or
they're going to be upset, orthey're not going to be happy
with me, then it's actuallypushing me farther away from sex
.
It's going to make my desireeven lower because of this
anxiety lens.
I'm seeing everything throughright.
(23:43):
If I get to the point of havingsex, it's going to be.
Am I doing this right?
Why don't I feel turned onright now, like, is my partner
happy?
And it totally just kills themood with all this mind shatter
that we have going on.
Speaker 1 (23:58):
Wow, that really blew my mind.
Performance is and that's likeone of the most common terms
when we think about like sexualfunctioning.
Is performance anxiety Right?
Speaker 2 (24:13):
And I to become a sex therapist, we have to have
supervision and I loved mysupervisor and she was someone
who really drilled into me likeokay, what are they performing
for?
What is this great performancethat we're on?
Like, where did this come from?
And for a lot of us it camefrom very naturally finding out
about sex through porn.
Right, like seeing porn, seeingthat performance.
(24:35):
You know porn is to life.
What a movie is, it's just thismedia that we're watching.
It's not true?
And so many people base theirsex lives on kind of what they
see through that lens or whatthey think it's supposed to look
like.
Speaker 1 (24:52):
Wow, talk to me more about a sex therapist
perspective on porn, because Iam not a sex therapist.
However, I've been exposed tosome of the ideas, and some of
the ideas that I've heard arelike porn addiction's not a real
thing and porn isn'tnecessarily bad.
(25:13):
So what tell me more about?
Like, do I, am I getting thatright, or what?
Speaker 2 (25:18):
Yeah, so sex therapy is research backed.
The research tells us thatnothing about watching porn or
masturbating is going to push usfarther away from sex, so it's
not going to decrease our sexdrive.
It's not going to make us wantto have sex with our partner.
Likewise, there's no evidencethat supports that there's this
(25:39):
chemical change to our brainlike there would be with another
kind of addiction.
We don't go through thiswithdrawal period if we stop
using porn.
That's why the addiction wordgets taken away In sex therapy.
What we refer to that as is outof control behavior.
And if something is out ofcontrol, that means that it's
impacting multiple areas of ourlife in a really unhealthy way.
(26:00):
So let's say, are you having togo to the bathroom at work and
watch porn just to get throughyour day?
Are you avoiding socialinteractions just to watch porn?
Are you spending $1,000 a monthon OnlyFans and you're not able
to pay your bills?
That's really when it becomesout of control sexual behavior.
I have clients come to mecalling it an addiction and I'm
(26:22):
never going to tell them theirverbiage is wrong.
I can only provide them withinformation and knowledge about
how it impacts our brain.
But in actuality, sextherapists, porn is a tool.
It can be used as a sexual aid.
It can be used to find whatkind of kinks we want to explore
.
It doesn't have to be seenthrough this negative lens, as
(26:44):
long as it's ethical porn.
Speaker 1 (26:46):
Okay, two things pop up for me with this topic of
conversation.
One is I have seen a lot ofcouples where and I'm not trying
to be sexist here, but this isjust the situation that I
experienced traumatizing pornand it's been really
(27:08):
traumatizing for the femalepartner.
She feels betrayed, she feelslike now she has this standard
that she can't live up to.
It brings on a lot ofinsecurity.
Speaker 2 (27:20):
Yeah, so when couples come into my office, something
we talk about is what theirrelationship contract is.
And for some couples arelationship contract means that
porn is not okay in ourrelationship.
We see that as infidelity, wesee that as being unfaithful.
For other couples it's hey, weonly watch porn together when
(27:40):
we're being intimate, as a kindof spicy zest that we're adding
to it.
And for others it's like hey,masturbation is normal, You're
going to masturbate, it's okayif you watch porn.
So in my eyes it's really hey,masturbation is normal, You're
going to masturbate, it's okayif you watch porn.
So in my eyes, it's really thisconversation that has to happen
.
Unfortunately, in our societyit's not a conversation that
happens naturally.
(28:01):
We're not taught by our parentsto have this conversation with
our partner about what's okayversus what's not okay.
So we build up a lot of theseexpectations that my partner
doesn't watch porn.
He wouldn't do that.
So then when we see it, it'svery traumatizing, right,
Because we have all of theseexpectations built up and it's
crushing that expectation thatwe have.
So that's kind of my view.
(28:22):
It doesn't invalidate thatpartner's feelings whatsoever,
because this was theirexpectation.
This was traumatic for them.
Okay, how do we reconcile?
What is the new contract thatwe're making in this
relationship for what's okayversus what's not okay?
How do we heal and move forward?
Speaker 1 (28:42):
Oh, I love that.
That's such a better way toview it.
Well and I think it'slegitimate to say that can be
traumatizing, Like what you said.
It's crushing your belief,which is a trauma.
It's very jarring.
So you might also need a littlebit of trauma therapy in order
to overcome that barrier beforeyou're willing to find a
(29:03):
compromise with your partnerabout what's allowed and what's
not allowed and maybe reenteringthe bedroom with your partner,
if that's something that wentaway after the experience.
Speaker 2 (29:13):
Absolutely, and I've had I think trauma therapy is a
really great point there I'vehad partners who compare it to
an infidelity and have reallydifficult time getting back in
the bedroom with their partner.
That's a totally normalreaction that their body's
having.
How do we process that?
How do we deal with that?
Speaker 1 (29:34):
The second thought that I had when we were talking
about this whole porn thing haveyou ever heard of oh my God yes
?
So oh my God, yes is a websitespecifically designed for women
and it's kind of porn, but notreally so.
It's women showing and talkingabout sex and showing like
different sexual moves andstimulation and words to help
(29:57):
other women get in tune withtheir sexuality and learn how to
talk about it and be okay withit and accept it.
So if you haven't heard of that, check it out.
I'm going to put it in the shownotes if you're looking for a
resource.
Speaker 2 (30:10):
I would love that, because in our society, women
aren't geared towards pleasure.
That's not what we're taught,that our experience is about.
It's about our male partner'spleasure, so I think that is a
really great resource for women.
Speaker 1 (30:22):
Yeah, well, I think it's changing right.
Like I'm looking at, there'sthis woman who does the reels,
where she's like sitting therewatching reels and she sees the
sexy man dancing and her kid'slike mom, what are you watching?
I was referring here to thesingle mom saga.
She's on TikTok.
She's on Instagram, she has herown merch and she's hilarious.
(30:45):
So when you're doing yournightly scroll, check her out
and have a good laugh, all right.
So when you're doing yournightly scroll, check her out
and have a good laugh, all right.
If someone's struggling withtheir sexual desire, if they're
resonating with this, if they'relike whoa, I feel personally
attacked because all of this isheading home.
What?
Speaker 2 (31:08):
would you suggest they do in order to start this
journey of like hey, I do wantto get my sex life back.
So first, what I want them todo is stop, take a deep breath,
remind yourself that you're okay.
This is more normal than youthink.
Second part of that the bestplace to start is really sitting
down, getting insightful,trying to figure out where this
dip is coming from.
Are you stressed?
Are you having relationshipissues?
(31:29):
Maybe are you at that lifepoint.
There's maybe some hormonalchanges going on.
What's your physical health like?
So kind of understanding itfrom that holistic lens.
Where is it coming from?
Next, maybe focusing onself-care changing some of those
factors I always say sleep,nutrition, moving our body those
(31:50):
are all factors that impactthat.
So if you're not doing thosethings well or caring for your
mental health, that's a greatplace to start addressing it.
So, self-care communicationwith your partner, you know,
maybe talking to your doctor andreaching out to a therapist If
(32:10):
you feel like this isn'tsomething that you know how to
address or it's notfigureoutable on your own.
Speaker 1 (32:17):
So what are some practical strategies couples can
use to prioritize theirintimacy without making it feel
like forced or ick.
Yeah, that's a great question.
Speaker 2 (32:26):
So I would love for them to focus on keeping it
natural and light, right, so nottreating intimacy like it's
another item on the to-do list.
So some practical things, right,like small moments throughout
the day, maybe little acts ofhand-holding, maybe we're giving
each other a small kiss aswe're passing each other in the
(32:47):
hallway, we're on the couch atthe night, maybe we're choosing
to sit next to each other versuson opposite ends of the couch.
It might sound simple, but it'sa way to kind of build that
connection, creating likerituals of connection.
I had a couple who createdsomething called TNT, which was
talk and tea time.
(33:07):
They made each other a glass oftea, they sat on the back porch
and they just talked, not aboutthe stress but about their life
, their dreams, each other, andthat was really reconnecting.
So having something like thatplanned right, um, being present
with each other, putting thephone down, turning the TV off,
(33:27):
turning towards each other andreally being emotionally
vulnerable and present with eachother in that moment, just
talking about sex, right,keeping an open communication
and being patient with eachother Nothing is going to kill
the drive more again thanfeeling pressured by your
partner that we got to get there, we got to have sex now.
(33:48):
Go, go go.
Speaker 1 (33:49):
I like Esther Perel's .
Like she talks about um.
She talks about reframing theconversation to what turns you
on.
So instead of labeling like hey, you need to brush your teeth
before you come into this dangbed, it's more like hey, it
turns me on when we come to bedand we smell good and we're
(34:12):
ready to touch.
Or like you're always on yourphone at night, it's like hey,
it turns me on when we put thephones down and we can turn
towards each other.
So I love that little reframeidea too of just kind of
focusing on what we do wantinstead of what we don't want.
Speaker 2 (34:27):
That positive reinforcement versus that
negative reinforcement.
Speaker 1 (34:32):
Well, especially with sexuality, it's such a
vulnerable thing.
I think that the minute someonefeels criticized, there's
nothing that's going to shut medown faster than criticizing me,
especially when it comes to mybody or you know, and once we've
been shut down once, how hardis it to come back from that a
(34:53):
lot harder than?
Yeah, a lot harder.
What did the Gottman say?
It's like a five to one ratiofive positives for every
negative.
So you say one negative thingand it outweighs five positives.
Speaker 2 (35:05):
So you have to like play the catch-up game yeah,
totally believe that, and Ithink it's also important, as
we're talking about, likepractical ways for couples to
kind of prioritize intimacywithout making it feel forced,
focusing on quality versusquantity, right, like, okay,
maybe we're not having sex everyday, every week, and when we
(35:29):
are having sex, is it qualitysex?
Are we really enjoying eachother and taking each other in,
and is that better than havingintimacy way more often, right?
Speaker 1 (35:40):
Oh my God.
Yes, I just think of the moviescenes where the woman's just
laying like a dead fish watchingTV while her husband's humping
her.
Speaker 2 (35:47):
It's like like not sexy.
Speaker 1 (35:50):
It's not a box to check off.
That is not hot at all.
Exactly that's good to hear,though, that a sex therapist
wouldn't be like okay, y'all aregoing to have sex every
Thursday.
Speaker 2 (36:01):
Yeah, and sometimes we do schedule sex right If a
couple's really havingdifficulty finding that space or
getting that time.
But ultimately that's not goingto be our goal.
Speaker 1 (36:11):
Oh yeah, we call it getting naked and seeing what
happens Beautiful, right Like ifit we're up to life and we
didn't prioritize it.
There's no way.
Like the kids and the choresand the hobby we both have
hobbies, we both have things, weboth have Right Like, at the
end of the night we have, I wantto scroll on the gram and be
(36:32):
left alone and not touched.
He wants to go upstairs and youknow, create music and do
whatever, watch football,whatever.
So to schedule it.
I know that some couples reallyresist that idea, like ew, what
that takes.
But if you have a life thatdoesn't lend itself to
spontaneity and free time, thenyou might need to schedule it in
(36:55):
your calendar absolutely andmake it something fun, make it
something light scheduling it.
Speaker 2 (37:01):
Don't just put scheduling sacks like I've had.
Couples call it really cutethings and like when they say it
, they're're like, oh okay, yeah, it's time for that and they
get excited, hot and steamynight.
Speaker 1 (37:13):
Exactly, yeah, shy, if you were going to give people
one nugget of advice, one pieceof wisdom that they were going
to take away from this episode,what would it be?
Speaker 2 (37:27):
Yeah, so desire.
It's not a switch that we canjust flip on and off right.
It's more like this slow cooker.
It takes time, it takes theright ingredients and a little
bit of patience to get us tothat place that we want to be.
So you know, it's really worthnurturing and, with the right
(37:48):
care and with the right supportand talking openly with your
partner and loving yourself,it's a place that we can get to.
Speaker 1 (38:00):
All right, that's a wrap.
We had fun, we had some laughsand hopefully we gave you a
fresh perspective and some solidideas for heating up your love
life or, at the very least, foremptying a little of your cup so
you can make more space forintimacy.
If sex has ever been painfulfor you in any way physically or
(38:22):
emotionally please know thatyou do not have to just deal
with it.
Pain during sex is not normaland you deserve pleasure,
comfort and connection.
Working with a sex therapistcan be a game changer and if
you're in North Carolina, shaiis the therapist to see.
You can find her and the restof our incredible team at
evolutionwellnessnccom.
(38:43):
And, while you're there, checkout some awesome freebies that
Shai herself has put together,like her conflict for couples
cheat sheet, because who doesn'tlove a good shortcut to get
better intimacy and lessconflict in your relationship?
Uh-huh, remember that your sexlife isn't over and you are not
broken.
You deserve joy, connection anda love life that actually feels
(39:06):
good.
Until next time, take care.
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