March 24, 2025 • 36 mins
Your Body Isn’t the Enemy—It’s Fighting for You
Diet culture has fed us a lie: that thinness equals health, worth, and discipline. But what if everything you’ve been taught about food and your body is wrong? Specialist eating disorder dietitian Emma Townsin is here to flip the script on restrictive diets, emotional eating, and why your body isn’t sabotaging you—it’s actually trying to keep you alive.
From childhood, we absorb sneaky messages linking thinness to morality—through cartoons, movies, casual comments, and even healthcare providers whose training is often backed by the weight loss and pharmaceutical industries. The result? A society obsessed with shrinking bodies, leading to cycles of shame, restriction, and disordered eating.
Emma breaks down the science of food restriction and why dieting backfires. When you cut calories or try to control your weight, your body goes into survival mode—boosting hunger, obsessing over food, and slowing metabolism. That’s why diets fail long-term, and why even people in larger bodies can be physiologically starving. The most shocking truth? Many people with eating disorders in bigger bodies are ignored or even encouraged to keep dieting—even when they meet clinical criteria for anorexia.
So, what’s the game-changer? Collaboration over control. Instead of battling cravings or blaming yourself for emotional eating, you can learn to decode what your body is trying to tell you. Much like mindfulness teaches us to listen to emotions rather than suppress them, we can apply the same approach to hunger, fullness, and cravings—because your body isn’t broken, it’s on your side.
If you struggle with constant food thoughts, stress around eating, or feel like your hunger is out of control, this episode will shift your perspective. As Emma puts it: When we stop fighting our bodies and start listening, we unlock real food freedom—and a healthier, more compassionate relationship with ourselves.
👉 Grab your FREE Audio Training: Get Unstuck- 3 Strategies to Break Free from Unhealthy Patterns
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
I'm not ashamed to admit that.
A British accent does it for me.
It just does it for me.
I want to be friends withBritish people because I love to
hear you talk and if you feelthe same way, boy, do I have a
treat for you.
Today's episode, Emma Townsend'sjoining us.
She is a specialist eatingdisorder dietitian over in the
(00:21):
UK.
She's also a certifiedintuitive eating counselor.
She did her own podcast.
She's got video trainings.
She's got online courses.
You can work with herone-on-one.
She's amazing.
She is the founder of Food LifeFreedom and her perspective on
how to reframe our relationshipwith our own body and how to
(00:43):
reframe our relationship to foodis transformative.
Matter of fact, the entireepisode I was going wow, oh,
that makes sense.
Oh, my gosh, you're so right.
So much so that I edited out alot of those reactions because I
was annoyed with how amazed Iwas.
(01:04):
I hope you guys feel the sameway when you hear her talk and I
really think that you're goingto walk away with a new view on
how we see ourselves, how we seeour bodies and how we talk to
ourselves overall, which whocouldn't use more help having a
kinder relationship withourselves?
Can't wait to get into this one.
(01:26):
You're going to love it.
Let's do it.
So I'm so excited to be herewith you.
You're a dietitian and youspecialize in eating disorders.
Yes, Talk a little bit moreabout what you do and like who
(01:48):
you see and who's your favoriteperson to see.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
Yeah, of course.
So I work a mixture of twodifferent jobs actually.
So one job is in within the NHS, which is in the UK, our
national health service, so likeour public health service, and
in that role I'm a specialisteating disorder dietitian and I
mostly work with people who arequite unwell compared to what I
would see in an online privatepractice, and it's mostly people
(02:15):
with anorexia.
In that role as well, Iabsolutely love doing.
I get a chance to see peoplewho don't, who wouldn't be
accepted into eating disorderservices, unfortunately, just
because of, like, long waitinglists and there's a huge lack of
funding, I guess, for that areaI work with.
(02:36):
Often not everyone has an eatingdisorder diagnosis that I work
with, and I actually loveworking with people who don't
have an eating disorderdiagnosis but just experience a
lot of stress around food.
So people I work with mighthave been like on enough dieting
for a long time.
Sometimes I work with peoplewho, since are a child, have
been placed on diets and neverhad the opportunity to learn how
to eat without that, withoutthese kind of rules guiding them
(03:00):
and making them feel shamearound food.
Often people I work with, sortof because of the dieting cycle,
are experiencing things likebinge eating, a lot of just like
shame and guilt around food,constant food thoughts as well,
so feeling like they can't stopthinking about food, other kinds
(03:20):
of out of control eating.
So maybe it feels to them likeit's emotional eating or stress
eating or like eating atnighttime, these kinds of eating
that feels a bit, that feelsout of control, like something
that they don't, aren't activelychoosing to do, or eating that
brings up a lot of like stressand shame and guilt for them.
Speaker 1 (03:41):
You know, as you're sharing these things, I'm like
oh, oh, oh, oh, because I am anight eater for sure, and so is
my husband and I think, do youagree with this?
Like our culture kind ofpromotes unhealthy patterns
around food, at least theAmerican culture.
I don't know how it is in theUK.
Speaker 2 (04:02):
I do think the US and the UK are a little bit
different in that regard.
The UK is certainly not perfectin terms of our food industry,
but I think there is like a bitof difference, maybe in just
like culturally as well, oraccess to the types of foods and
things.
But I, yeah, I agree with you,but I also see the opposite.
Like I see well, not theopposite.
(04:25):
So I guess, like what you'resaying is, we're sold all these
foods that like aren't so goodfor us, and that can definitely
be a thing.
I think it's worth consideringlike the context of it as well,
where, like time poor, we'realways busy, and then we kind of
get these messages that are,like you should be cooking and
preparing all these like freshfoods, and it's like with what
(04:46):
time?
Especially now that women areexpected to go to work and, in
some situations, also expectedto be the ones caring for the
family and cooking yeah, wedon't have.
Or whoever's doing it in thefamily is usually also, in a lot
of cases, also working yeah sowe can be given these messages
that it's you should be.
You should be doing all thesethings that mean you're eating
(05:07):
all these fresh foods andunprocessed foods but you've got
no time.
So then we're going toadvertise, like all of these
foods that maybe don't feel sogood and it can be hard to find
the like middle ground.
Or maybe sometimes it might behard to find things that are
quick and convenient, that thatdo feel better for us or that we
actually want to eat.
Or maybe we're eating thingsjust because that's what we have
(05:30):
access to and there's nothingwrong with that, like we need
food.
We need food we have access toif we don't have the time.
But yeah, I guess it can behard navigating that in our
culture when we're giving theseconflicting messages, navigating
that in our culture when we'regiving these conflicting
messages.
But, like the other, the othercultural messages I see as well
(05:50):
are encouraging unhealthy eatingat the other level.
So they're encouraging us to be, like, very health conscious to
the stage that it's reallyreally stressful, which is no
longer healthy if it's at thatplace.
Speaker 1 (06:04):
Yeah, it is interesting how it's like these
polar opposites, these extremes,because I agree with what
you're saying I think that thispush for health can feel really
stressful too.
Why do you think people tietheir values as a person to like
(06:24):
what they eat and how they look?
Speaker 2 (06:27):
Yeah, there's.
Often it comes from the biggermessages we're given in our
culture, even to some of thereally subtle ones.
If we start thinking about themessages we get, even going back
to say cartoons as children,say cartoons as children, where
(06:50):
we're told that or often thelike good character is thin and
stereotypically pretty or hasthese kind of like ideals and
the you know, the villain or theevil character or something is
often in a larger body and haslike certain features that we
then start perceiving as notideal and not good enough and
makes us feel like less worthyand all of these kind of traits
(07:11):
that we absorb and we start toassociate with a bad person and
that continues.
So we think about like all themessages in all of our movies,
tv shows.
Wow, so we get this associationat such a young age really like
subconsciously.
Yeah, it is established reallyyoung.
And then it's like reinforcedthrough everything we consume
(07:31):
really, and then it's reinforcedthrough conversation that we
hear our family and friends andcolleagues and other, like peers
at school.
It's reinforced througheveryone who's got this
information and then even inhealthcare we we don't have it's
not really like this healthy,balanced information.
(07:53):
It's still very much like youshould be thinner and if you're
gaining weight that's a badthing.
Um, even in healthcare, where weknow that someone losing weight
is often a sign of disease, westill get these messages that
gaining weight is bad and losingweight is good.
The messages within healthcareare often really heavily
influenced by the people whofund a lot of research, who then
(08:16):
design research in certain ways, and that's often like
pharmaceutical companies, thediet industry, weight loss
companies and I'm not saying allpharmaceutical companies are
bad and everything they do isbad but they are the ones that
are often selling kind of likemedications and things within
the, the weight loss space, andthat is where funding often
comes from, or from other umdiet companies as well.
(08:38):
So that is often the the placea lot of health care workers
then get their information orthey're getting this education,
but it's very one-sidededucation, and then that's the
messages we're getting as well.
So it kind of comes fromeverywhere, from just like we
internalize it, and then we getall this marketing from like the
diet industry and everythingour whole life saying we should
(08:59):
be losing weight, and it mightnot say you will feel this is
like the thing, you need to feelbetter, but that's what it
shows, that's what it's alwaysshowing, and then even our
health care.
Speaker 1 (09:09):
You're so right, you're blowing my mind.
Money talks.
There's a reason why thatsaying is popular.
So how, when you work withsomeone, how do you start to
help them separate out?
Like hey, these are themessages that have been sent to
you and you, you are a personand you are great.
Like how do we start toseparate this out?
Speaker 2 (09:31):
so I guess there's two.
Well, there's not two sides toit, there's probably lots of
sides.
Um, in my head I had two sides,so that one of the sides is
just starting to explore, liketheir body's physiology and why
their body is doing what it'sdoing.
Because often, often people,because of these messages
they've received, they've beenmaybe trying some kind of diet
(09:52):
or some kind of way of eatingthat hasn't been working and
then they have a feeling thattheir body is wrong, my body is
doing something bad.
I like, why I'm doing all ofthese things that I'm told to do
and I'm not ending up like I amtold I will in terms of looks
or in terms of like my life,feeling better and feeling more
worthy or being treated better.
(10:13):
So, firstly, it is aboutexploring why, like, why, why
your body is reacting the waythat it does.
And we know why diets don'twork.
We know, know why people diet,lose weight and then regain
weight again and then diet againand lose weight.
We know why that happens.
We know the physiology behindit, but people are still often
(10:34):
made to believe it's because oftheir willpower or something
they're doing wrong or theirbody's just bad.
So, exploring that side of it,to take away that blame and
shame for their own body andhelping them explore why they
believe that.
So if we think about ourbeliefs, our beliefs are just
(10:55):
thought pathways in our brain,so just neural pathways in our
brain that forms our thoughts.
And then when they get really,really strong, they're things
that we believe like we believethem so strongly it can be hard
to like see any other way.
And they get strong by repeatedexposure to these messages and,
of course, when we are engagingwith them as well.
So looking at where they've gotall their information for so
(11:19):
long, why these messages are sostrong in their brain, and
bringing in differentperspectives on that, bringing
bringing in new information.
So a CBT approach there.
But yeah, we might be bringingin new information by what we're
talking about and then they canstart to challenge their own
thoughts themselves.
But also I'll recommend othercontent for them to listen to,
(11:42):
to read, to absorb, so that theyhave other information coming
in as well to help them.
Speaker 1 (11:48):
Yeah, yeah, I think that's so powerful.
It's like what are you exposingyourself to and how can you be
intentional about the input thatyou're giving your brain?
Speaker 2 (11:57):
Because, like you said, it's just a pathway that's
been carved over and over andover and over, so you have to
introduce new stimulus so thatyou can carve a new path yeah,
and sometimes even just knowingthat can can take the pressure
off the kind of thoughts orbeliefs we have, knowing that
(12:18):
there is another way or knowingwhy we think these things and
like, really believe thesethings that are then causing us
so much stress and are nothelpful.
So just knowing why and knowingthat there is a way to think
differently, to feel differently, can be helpful in itself.
Speaker 1 (12:33):
Oh, I think so too, and freeing, like it's almost
like when somebody is practicinga speech and then you get in
front of other people and itlike catches you off guard and
makes you a lot more mindful ofwhat you're saying and how loud
you're saying it, and that's sotrue for how our thoughts are
too, I think, when we becomeaware of, well, why am I
(12:54):
thinking this way, and ooh, thatwas an interesting thought and
like the thoughts are alreadygoing to change, just knowing
that they're being observed.
Speaker 2 (13:02):
Yeah, absolutely.
Sometimes, especially whenpeople are maybe really
struggling with the activity ofbringing in new thoughts, we'll
talk about just starting withlabeling them.
So sometimes I mean I love thelabel, just like diet, culture
and true self-thoughts, but anykind of label it could just be
that's an unsupportive thoughts,unsupportive thought and
(13:23):
supportive thought, like anykind of label that just
separates, like the two, I guess, two broad, different kinds of
thoughts those ones that areleading you down a path of
beating yourself up, of justtrying to control your body and
causing a lot of stress aroundfood in your body, and then
those that are being more caringand kind and focused on what
(13:43):
will actually support my body,not just what will actually
control my body.
Speaker 1 (13:46):
To look different, oh yeah, I love that.
What do people mean when theytalk about diet culture?
Because that's a pretty popularterm right now and I don't
think I bet my perspective of itis very different than a
dietician's perspective of it.
So how would you define dietculture?
Speaker 2 (14:04):
Like diet culture is the system of beliefs within our
culture that tell us, like whatmakes us worthy, what makes us
valuable, what we should, Iguess, what our values or our
goals in life should be.
So in our culture it's verymuch like everything we learn as
(14:24):
we're talking about before.
It's very much like if you'rethinner, you're more worthy if
you're eating this particularway and the way of eating can be
so different depending whatkind of subculture I guess we're
in or where we get ourinformation.
But if you're eating especiallysomeone who's maybe doing a
kind of diet that there is apart of a community or something
(14:45):
, if you're eating this certainway, then you're a good person.
If not, then you're a failurewithin that community.
Diet culture is also veryoppressive.
So it says that if you don'tmeet these kind of ideals which
is often like really thin orsometimes like thin and muscular
and able to eat in thisparticular way, which not
everyone is going to be for somany reasons, not able to eat in
(15:05):
this particular way, which noteveryone is going to be for so
many reasons, not able to eat inthat way like think of
neurodiversity and foodsensitivities and just different
cultures then you're not kindof good enough and we're going
to hold all these things back.
So just thinking about likehealthcare is not as accessible
for people in larger bodies.
There's a lot of like barriersand limitations to care that
(15:26):
they receive, whether it's beinglike cutoffs for receiving care
or whether it's just not beingbelieved when they go to a
doctor and say I've got, I don'tknow, I've got like a sore
throat and it's like we'll loseweight or I've got like anything
going on, and the advice canoften be they can not be
believed and given this genericlose weight advice rather than
(15:47):
having things investigated,which does mean people get
delayed diagnosis of illnessesthat really do matter.
So things like cancer diagnosiscan be delayed just because of
body size.
So that's where diet culture isnot just about kind of.
Although body image is so, soimportant, it's not just about
making people feel rubbish intheir body.
It's also about people'squality of life, people's access
(16:10):
to health care, um people's pay, like people in larger bodies
are shown to have lower likesalaries as well.
That's obviously on average,not every single person, but
there's just so many factors.
So it's an oppressive systemthat creates like value and
worth based on our largely, ourbody size and the way that we
(16:32):
eat whoa, that's so deep and sofascinating.
Speaker 1 (16:36):
I never thought of that that well and I mean, why
didn't I think of this?
But that doctors have thesejudgments and their access to
healthcare, oh my gosh, that'svery sad.
Speaker 2 (16:50):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (16:51):
Wow, okay.
So what's a small shift thatpeople can start to make to like
get out of this whole idea ofdiet culture and unhealthy
eating patterns or unhealthyrelationships with food?
Speaker 2 (17:07):
I guess the main difference between dieting and
not dieting, apart from just, Iguess, learning the maybe having
to relearn that connection withthe body and things.
The main difference is whenwe're dieting.
So when we're following likesome kind of rules to guide our
eating, or maybe it's guide ourmovement and things as well
(17:27):
we're doing that with a sense ofcontrolling the body.
So if we're weight loss dieting, then we're trying to control
the body to be like a certainsize or to look a certain way,
whereas if we're not dieting andwe're eating intuitively or
eating in a supportive way, thenwe're trying to work with the
body.
So then we're trying to saywhat does my body actually need?
(17:49):
So rather than saying I'veeaten so much already today, I'm
just not going to have a snackin the afternoon, even though I
feel hungry, we're going tothink I'm feeling hungry and
that can be a skill to learn ifwe've been disconnected from our
hunger or not using it for awhile.
It a skill to learn that initself.
But we're going to say I'mfeeling hungry and my body would
like benefit from some foodright now to get me through the
(18:11):
rest of the afternoon or to giveme more energy until dinner or
or something like that, andthere's lots of different ways
we can switch that mindset tolike working with our body.
So we're looking at it fromlike a caring perspective and
developing that trust.
This this is something that cantake a while to do as well, but
we're developing that trust thatwhen we're caring for our body
(18:32):
with food but also other ways ofas in, we're not beating
ourselves up where other otherkind of self-care needs as well.
Within reason, there's alwaysgoing to be times that we can't
maybe access things as thingsthat are going to be stressful.
But when we're caring for ourbody that we trust our body to
to find the weight and the shapethat is most comfortable for
(18:52):
our body, whereas when we'refighting against our body, that
control of our body kind ofleads us to be trying to control
it and our body to get to beseeing like from an evolutionary
perspective.
When we try to control, ourbody sees that as restriction
and scarcity of food and thingsnot being available.
(19:13):
So our body then fights back totry and make sure that we do
eat more.
So it's going to like increaseour hunger drive and it's also
going to fight back in terms ofputting our body into a place
where we're more likely to gainweight, because that's so
important for our body to not belosing weight through
restriction of food or throughfood scarcity.
Speaker 1 (19:32):
That makes so much sense because when I've tried to
lose like the baby weight, assoon as I'm trying to lose
weight I'm like starving yeah.
So that makes so much sense tome.
Speaker 2 (19:44):
And there's probably both like the physiological
hunger drive there as well, butalso even if we end up still
eating enough, whatever enoughis just that restriction can
trigger, or does trigger, ourbody to think more about food
and to want food more becauseit's worried about food not
being available.
Speaker 1 (20:03):
What a good.
I bet that's so empowering.
Just hearing this is soempowering because it's like,
yeah, you're right.
Wow, I never thought about itthat way, like being
collaborative.
It's interesting, becausethat's really a lot of ways that
therapists help clients too is,instead of trying to control
the emotions which you have nocontrol over, just kind of
becoming friends with youremotions and being collaborative
(20:26):
with your emotions and tryingto hear, like, well, what is
that feeling telling you?
So it sounds really similar tohow dieticians help clients
maybe stop struggling and tryingto control the body and work
with it.
Speaker 2 (20:40):
Yeah, do you know, I often think that it gets really
frustrating seeing all of ourdiet culture messages still so
focused on controlling the bodyand within healthcare it's still
so focused on controlling thebody, and then, in a kind of
more general mental health space, there's this like big movement
towards like accepting andunderstanding, like mindfulness
approaches and you know, ouremotions are okay, we're allowed
(21:03):
to feel our emotions and weshouldn't be fighting them and
all of this approach and I'mlike why do we have it happening
there, which is great, but whydo we not have it happening in
terms of our body and physiology, and also like our eating cues,
like appetite cues.
Speaker 1 (21:19):
Yeah, you're right, it's time for that, for that,
definitely, and it's so.
Speaker 2 (21:22):
It's kind of intuitive, like if we're doing
it with our emotions and ourfeelings and our mental health,
why not just go ahead andgeneralize it to food and our
bodies and it's all connectedyeah, absolutely, and like,
importantly, with mood as well,there can be such a big focus
Like sometimes the information Isee on mood is these very
(21:45):
specific foods and that's what'sgoing to help you feel better.
But the most important firstpart of that is that we need to
be eating enough food, becauseif we're not eating enough food,
our body's hunger drive isgoing to be kicking in.
We're going to be thinkingabout food all the time.
That's just physiologicallywhat our body's going to do.
We're going to have thisrestriction brain.
(22:06):
Our mind's going to be inrestriction mode where it's
worried about not getting food.
That impacts our mood and alsoour cortisol levels are
increased when our body is notgetting enough food as well,
when our body is not gettingenough food as well.
So, although different foodscan kind of help, if we're not
getting enough just enough foodat first, we're not going to be
(22:29):
able to process our emotions andconnect with that and think of,
like enjoy life properlyoutside of food and eating.
So, yeah, I think that's thepart that I often see missing
and considering.
Like dieting and restrictingour food is so overemphasized
everywhere.
There's a lot of people whowould be, I guess, going trying
to go to that next step, or likewhat can I eat to make myself
(22:50):
feel better, when really we justneed to start eating enough
food as that first step?
Speaker 1 (22:55):
I'm giggling because last night I served my family
dinner and it just wasn't a lot.
It was a small amount because Ifelt like we were wasting a lot
.
Well, anyways, my husband waslike still hungry and he was
being a jerk cranky, cranky,cranky.
And then he just commented likeoh, you know, what would be
really good right now is tacos.
(23:15):
So I ran across the street andI got him some tacos from this
taco joint that does $2 tacos on.
Tuesdays and I brought him homefood and his whole entire mood
shifted and he was like oh sorry, I was such a jerk, I think I
was hangry and I'm like, listen,I've had two babies.
I know all about being hangry,Because it's true, like when you
(23:39):
are in some kind of a caloriedeficit and your body needs
nourishment, you become salty ashell.
Speaker 2 (23:47):
It's so true.
And, yeah, I work with peoplewho have been dieting for a long
time and are kind of always ona diet or often on a diet.
It's kind of maybe this all ornothing cycle and just the way
they perceive themselves as well, and just the way they, like
perceive themselves as well, orjust the way they maybe are
acting.
It's not who they think thatthey truly are or like or who
they actually truly are.
(24:08):
They maybe are always grumpy.
Maybe it's like at theirchildren, maybe it's at their
partner, maybe it's just like ingeneral that they're always
feeling grumpy.
They're always feeling reallymoody and like what?
What is wrong with me?
We need enough food first.
That's the first thing we needto try.
Until you've got enough food,we don't really know if there's
something else that you needsupport with or where that would
be.
And, yeah, the impact onpeople's moods and just like
(24:30):
having the headspace to focus onthings outside of food and to
regulate our emotions and ourmood is just so powerful, just
having enough.
Speaker 1 (24:39):
Is it possible to be like chunky or overweight
squishy, if you will, and stillbe in a place where you're not
having enough food?
Because I feel like that's likea common misconception, because
a lot of times we're trying tolose weight, you know, get
thinner, but also we might notbe eating enough.
(25:00):
Could you talk about that alittle bit, because I feel like
that's something I struggle withsometimes.
Speaker 2 (25:05):
Absolutely so, so important.
Anyone can be starved, anyone,anybody size, that we can't look
at someone and say whether theyeat enough food, whether they
are, um, um, I guess, dieting,whether they're not dieting.
We can't look at someone andsay that.
And actually we know that in interms of eating disorders
(25:27):
themselves, we often see likestereotypically, anorexia is
very stereotypically like verylow weight people, um, that we
see represented.
But actually anyone can haveanorexia as well.
It's I mean, it's often calledatypical anorexia when someone
isn't in the very low bodyweight category, which I don't
like that term because thebehaviors and the clinical
(25:48):
symptoms can be exactly the same.
It's just someone's weightthat's different.
But research has found thatpeople there's a lot more people
with anorexia in a larger bodysize or just that don't meet
this criteria for anorexia thanthere are people who meet the
low weight criteria, be withchronic dieting, or they could
(26:19):
even be struggling so much thatthey do meet criteria if they
were assessed and sometimespeople do get assessed.
Often people just get told tokeep dieting, even if they meet
criteria for something likeanorexia.
Wow, um, it's actually like thenorm that when we are starving
ourself or we're not eatingenough food, our body doesn't
want to keep losing weight untilit gets like a very, very low
weight.
That's not what our bodydoesn't want.
To keep losing weight until itgets like very, very low weight.
(26:39):
That's not what our body wantsto do.
So for most people it's notgoing to get to these really,
really low weights.
So if we look at really lowweight anorexia that's there's
less people that are going toget to that place.
Then there are people whosebodies are going to stay a bit
higher weight even with verylittle food, and the body has
lots of different ways of likeadapting to starvation kind of
(27:00):
slows everything in the bodydown to conserve energy as much
as possible, mind blown wow,which makes a lot of sense when
you explain it, but I just don'tthink people are aware of that
because it's not talked about alot, absolutely.
Absolutely, and then that's whypeople miss out on support as
well, either not being likebelieved if they do try to reach
(27:23):
out to someone, like ahealthcare provider, or just
that they don't even feel likethey can reach out, because they
hear all these messages as welland think well, there must be
something wrong with me, mybody's not thin, so there must
be something I'm doing wrong andwe'll just stay in this cycle.
Speaker 1 (27:41):
Can anyone work with like a dietician?
Speaker 2 (27:45):
Yeah, what do you mean?
Anyone Like people can justreach out and if they want to,
yeah, yeah, like.
Speaker 1 (27:50):
so it sounds like.
What you're saying to me makesme feel like working with a
dietician should be just asnormalized as working with a
therapist, because I have astrong belief that everyone
should be working with atherapist, even if you're not,
because I think what you'resaying resonates with me when I
(28:10):
talk a lot about hey, everyonecan benefit from having a
therapist, you don't have to behaving a mentee bee and breaking
lamps and throwing plates atyour husband in order to benefit
from seeing a therapist.
It sounds to me like what you'resaying is the same for
dietitians.
Like, hey, it might not be abad idea to go see a dietitian
(28:33):
and maybe change yourrelationship to your body and to
food and nutrition.
That might be beneficial evenfor someone who's not rail thin
or super overweight.
Speaker 2 (28:45):
Absolutely.
Yeah, if you're experiencingstress around food so your
food's taking up like a lot ofyour thoughts during the day you
can't stop thinking about food,or maybe it's just more like at
nighttime or something and thatfeels quite stressful.
If it's really normal to eat foremotions, but if eating for
emotions is something that feelsout of control or it's bringing
(29:06):
up a lot of stress and that'slike what we turn to, then that
can also be a reason to see aspecialist dietitian in this
area.
If we're experiencing like foodbehaviors that just feel really
uncomfortable and again arebringing up a lot of stress,
then absolutely there doesn'tneed to be like any kind of
formal diagnosis to need supportand actually I love working
(29:30):
like majority of my clients Iwork with privately don't have
an official diagnosis of aneating disorder.
If they did, it's often in thepast and they're not under sort
of eating disorder services nowthey're in a place where things
have been more stable but food'sdoing really stressful.
So medically they're morestable but food is feeling very,
very stressful.
(29:50):
What I would say if you'rereaching out to a dietitian for
that support is there's so manydifferent specialties of
dietitians, so finding adietitian specialized in that
area- what are some examples ofspecializations in dietitians?
Speaker 1 (30:04):
Sorry, I just don't know.
I'm so curious.
Speaker 2 (30:07):
So you can be specialized in, say, oncology,
in renal, in like neuro, likestroke and neurological diseases
, and like rehab in so manyareas.
So dietetics is a very likeclinical area, largely so a lot
of dietitians work withinhospitals or within like um,
(30:28):
like community services, withinhealth care as well, and then
people who work in private couldbe so many specialties.
I guess like like gut issues,like ibs and other gut issues is
a big specialty that makes aheck of a lot of sense.
Yeah, lots of different ones.
So, like I'm not going to seesomeone who's reaching out for
something like for this otheradvice, because, although I
(30:49):
maybe have this, like I do havethis general knowledge of it,
but that's not what I commit, my, like, my CPD, like my
continuing professionaldevelopment and my ongoing
training and my supervision.
That's not in those areas.
So I'm not going to be up todate on all of these other.
Yeah, like that wouldn't be um,something you're.
Speaker 1 (31:09):
We use the word competent, which I know has a
negative connotation in thenon-clinical space, but in the
clinical space we talk about hey, is that something you feel
competent in?
Because if it's not, especiallynervous therapists, it's like,
hey, this isn't your area ofcompetency, so maybe you should
be referring them to somebodywho specializes in trauma.
Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (31:29):
Yeah, if the support is for that, yeah, okay, yeah,
so I'd suggest looking out forsomeone who's either a
specialist eating disorderdietician or for someone who's
also a certified intuitiveeating counselor and the like.
Additional training I did inintuitive eating is actually so
helpful when I work with eatingdisorders and when I work
outside of eating disorders, butit's really an approach that
(31:50):
helps us to to fight backagainst and like to understand
and challenge diet culture andunderstand and challenge like
our own thoughts and bring in,bring in more supportive, true
self-thoughts that support us toto care for our body as well as
connecting back with our body,so like a mindfulness approach,
to connect back with our body'sappetite as well as emotions and
(32:11):
other self-care needs, um, andhelp to also to separate, you
know, when there's all of thisinformation out there so there's
a heap of nutrition.
You can find anything you wantIf you want to.
If you want something to betrue about nutrition, you could
find it, because there's justall of this misinformation, all
of this just like hyped up kindof true information, like
(32:33):
anything is there.
So also helping people toseparate that out so that we can
use supportive knowledge whenit does help us and when that's
something that will can usesupportive knowledge, when it
does help us and when that'ssomething that will benefit us,
but without feeling stressedabout all of this jumble of
nutrition nonsense that's outthere.
Speaker 1 (32:49):
It's so true.
I think that's true for, likenutrition, mental health,
physical therapy right Like.
Good grief.
I just saw an influencer talkabout that.
She was like TikTok was gettingshut down and then all y'all
fitness influencers came out andadmitted to getting like
(33:09):
Brazilian butt lifts and notfollowing the workouts that you
were actually like advertising,she said.
That's the importance offinding somebody who's actually
a physical therapist or apersonal trainer or a dietician
or a mental health therapistlike please stop taking advice
from people who are not licensedand specialized.
(33:32):
Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (33:34):
and then I guess also checking the specialty, isn't
it as well?
Yeah, like checking thatsomeone's specialized in that
area, because of course we canlearn this at university, but
that's a long time ago, so wewant someone who's also doing
ongoing education and trainingin these specific areas as well.
Yeah, totally.
Speaker 1 (33:50):
So I like to ask this to everybody If you were going
to give somebody one specialpiece of advice about everything
that we've talked about today,one big takeaway, what would it
be?
Speaker 2 (34:01):
I think one big takeaway is that your body is
actually on your side so wedon't need to fight against it.
There's no reason that our bodywants to be causing us harm or
against us.
There's, I guess, when we'reable to stop fighting with it
(34:22):
and recognize that, okay, mybody's on my side.
What is it asking?
Even if it's telling you toguide it like having these
constant food thoughts, forexample, and that feels really
stressful and frustratingthere's a reason that's
happening.
So understanding that reasonthat that's happening, rather
than just trying to fightagainst those thoughts, is going
to be so much more helpful thangoing against our body.
(34:45):
So I guess thinking of it kindof like a friend if we're
constantly belittling, beratingthem, like we're going to keep
fighting, it's saying okay, Iwant to work with you, what are
you asking?
And that can take some supportas well.
But just that mindset shift ofmy body is on my side can be
really helpful.
Speaker 1 (35:03):
Be your body's friend .
People yeah, exactly, I lovethat.
That's really awesome andprofound.
Simple and profound.
Where can people find you ifthey want to work with you or
they want to know more about you?
Emma, you were just a wonderfulguest.
I'm sure people want to connectWell thank you.
Speaker 2 (35:22):
Yeah, I've got a website that is
foodlifefreedomcom or one word,foodlifefreedomcom and on there
I have we can work.
I'm based in the UK but I canwork with people from all over
if the time difference works foryou and all of that, so I do
(35:43):
have like consultations on there.
But also I've got some onlinecourses.
I self-paced online courses andthere's some freebies, so you
do jump on there.
There's a free ebook on fivesteps to find food joy and there
is a video training onemotional eating as well, so
they can be some things that arehelpful to get started.
Speaker 1 (36:03):
I have linked Emma's website in the show notes that
way you can hop over and grabone of her awesome freebies.
I know I'm going to right now.
Actually, I'm on her beautifulwebsite and I'm going to grab it
.
If you liked this episode,please, please, please, support
us by sharing it with a friend,maybe sharing it on your
Instagram story, maybe, I don'tknow, promoting it to your
(36:25):
colleagues, recommending it toclients you work with who could
benefit from it.
Share Sharing is caring y'all,and until next time, be friends
with your body.
It's not working against you.
I'll catch you on the nextepisode.
I'm not ashamed to admit that.
A British accent does it for me.
It just does it for me.
I want to be friends withBritish people because I love to
hear you talk and if you feelthe same way, boy, do I have a
treat for you.
Today's episode, Emma Townsend'sjoining us.
She is a specialist eatingdisorder dietitian over in the
(00:21):
UK.
She's also a certifiedintuitive eating counselor.
She did her own podcast.
She's got video trainings.
She's got online courses.
You can work with herone-on-one.
She's amazing.
She is the founder of Food LifeFreedom and her perspective on
how to reframe our relationshipwith our own body and how to
(00:43):
reframe our relationship to foodis transformative.
Matter of fact, the entireepisode I was going wow, oh,
that makes sense.
Oh, my gosh, you're so right.
So much so that I edited out alot of those reactions because I
was annoyed with how amazed Iwas.
(01:04):
I hope you guys feel the sameway when you hear her talk and I
really think that you're goingto walk away with a new view on
how we see ourselves, how we seeour bodies and how we talk to
ourselves overall, which whocouldn't use more help having a
kinder relationship withourselves?
Can't wait to get into this one.
(01:26):
You're going to love it.
Let's do it.
So I'm so excited to be herewith you.
You're a dietitian and youspecialize in eating disorders.
Yes, Talk a little bit moreabout what you do and like who
(01:48):
you see and who's your favoriteperson to see.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
Yeah, of course.
So I work a mixture of twodifferent jobs actually.
So one job is in within the NHS, which is in the UK, our
national health service, so likeour public health service, and
in that role I'm a specialisteating disorder dietitian and I
mostly work with people who arequite unwell compared to what I
would see in an online privatepractice, and it's mostly people
(02:15):
with anorexia.
In that role as well, Iabsolutely love doing.
I get a chance to see peoplewho don't, who wouldn't be
accepted into eating disorderservices, unfortunately, just
because of, like, long waitinglists and there's a huge lack of
funding, I guess, for that areaI work with.
(02:36):
Often not everyone has an eatingdisorder diagnosis that I work
with, and I actually loveworking with people who don't
have an eating disorderdiagnosis but just experience a
lot of stress around food.
So people I work with mighthave been like on enough dieting
for a long time.
Sometimes I work with peoplewho, since are a child, have
been placed on diets and neverhad the opportunity to learn how
to eat without that, withoutthese kind of rules guiding them
(03:00):
and making them feel shamearound food.
Often people I work with, sortof because of the dieting cycle,
are experiencing things likebinge eating, a lot of just like
shame and guilt around food,constant food thoughts as well,
so feeling like they can't stopthinking about food, other kinds
(03:20):
of out of control eating.
So maybe it feels to them likeit's emotional eating or stress
eating or like eating atnighttime, these kinds of eating
that feels a bit, that feelsout of control, like something
that they don't, aren't activelychoosing to do, or eating that
brings up a lot of like stressand shame and guilt for them.
Speaker 1 (03:41):
You know, as you're sharing these things, I'm like
oh, oh, oh, oh, because I am anight eater for sure, and so is
my husband and I think, do youagree with this?
Like our culture kind ofpromotes unhealthy patterns
around food, at least theAmerican culture.
I don't know how it is in theUK.
Speaker 2 (04:02):
I do think the US and the UK are a little bit
different in that regard.
The UK is certainly not perfectin terms of our food industry,
but I think there is like a bitof difference, maybe in just
like culturally as well, oraccess to the types of foods and
things.
But I, yeah, I agree with you,but I also see the opposite.
Like I see well, not theopposite.
(04:25):
So I guess, like what you'resaying is, we're sold all these
foods that like aren't so goodfor us, and that can definitely
be a thing.
I think it's worth consideringlike the context of it as well,
where, like time poor, we'realways busy, and then we kind of
get these messages that are,like you should be cooking and
preparing all these like freshfoods, and it's like with what
(04:46):
time?
Especially now that women areexpected to go to work and, in
some situations, also expectedto be the ones caring for the
family and cooking yeah, wedon't have.
Or whoever's doing it in thefamily is usually also, in a lot
of cases, also working yeah sowe can be given these messages
that it's you should be.
You should be doing all thesethings that mean you're eating
(05:07):
all these fresh foods andunprocessed foods but you've got
no time.
So then we're going toadvertise, like all of these
foods that maybe don't feel sogood and it can be hard to find
the like middle ground.
Or maybe sometimes it might behard to find things that are
quick and convenient, that thatdo feel better for us or that we
actually want to eat.
Or maybe we're eating thingsjust because that's what we have
(05:30):
access to and there's nothingwrong with that, like we need
food.
We need food we have access toif we don't have the time.
But yeah, I guess it can behard navigating that in our
culture when we're giving theseconflicting messages, navigating
that in our culture when we'regiving these conflicting
messages.
But, like the other, the othercultural messages I see as well
(05:50):
are encouraging unhealthy eatingat the other level.
So they're encouraging us to be, like, very health conscious to
the stage that it's reallyreally stressful, which is no
longer healthy if it's at thatplace.
Speaker 1 (06:04):
Yeah, it is interesting how it's like these
polar opposites, these extremes,because I agree with what
you're saying I think that thispush for health can feel really
stressful too.
Why do you think people tietheir values as a person to like
(06:24):
what they eat and how they look?
Speaker 2 (06:27):
Yeah, there's.
Often it comes from the biggermessages we're given in our
culture, even to some of thereally subtle ones.
If we start thinking about themessages we get, even going back
to say cartoons as children,say cartoons as children, where
(06:50):
we're told that or often thelike good character is thin and
stereotypically pretty or hasthese kind of like ideals and
the you know, the villain or theevil character or something is
often in a larger body and haslike certain features that we
then start perceiving as notideal and not good enough and
makes us feel like less worthyand all of these kind of traits
(07:11):
that we absorb and we start toassociate with a bad person and
that continues.
So we think about like all themessages in all of our movies,
tv shows.
Wow, so we get this associationat such a young age really like
subconsciously.
Yeah, it is established reallyyoung.
And then it's like reinforcedthrough everything we consume
(07:31):
really, and then it's reinforcedthrough conversation that we
hear our family and friends andcolleagues and other, like peers
at school.
It's reinforced througheveryone who's got this
information and then even inhealthcare we we don't have it's
not really like this healthy,balanced information.
(07:53):
It's still very much like youshould be thinner and if you're
gaining weight that's a badthing.
Um, even in healthcare, where weknow that someone losing weight
is often a sign of disease, westill get these messages that
gaining weight is bad and losingweight is good.
The messages within healthcareare often really heavily
influenced by the people whofund a lot of research, who then
(08:16):
design research in certain ways, and that's often like
pharmaceutical companies, thediet industry, weight loss
companies and I'm not saying allpharmaceutical companies are
bad and everything they do isbad but they are the ones that
are often selling kind of likemedications and things within
the, the weight loss space, andthat is where funding often
comes from, or from other umdiet companies as well.
(08:38):
So that is often the the placea lot of health care workers
then get their information orthey're getting this education,
but it's very one-sidededucation, and then that's the
messages we're getting as well.
So it kind of comes fromeverywhere, from just like we
internalize it, and then we getall this marketing from like the
diet industry and everythingour whole life saying we should
(08:59):
be losing weight, and it mightnot say you will feel this is
like the thing, you need to feelbetter, but that's what it
shows, that's what it's alwaysshowing, and then even our
health care.
Speaker 1 (09:09):
You're so right, you're blowing my mind.
Money talks.
There's a reason why thatsaying is popular.
So how, when you work withsomeone, how do you start to
help them separate out?
Like hey, these are themessages that have been sent to
you and you, you are a personand you are great.
Like how do we start toseparate this out?
Speaker 2 (09:31):
so I guess there's two.
Well, there's not two sides toit, there's probably lots of
sides.
Um, in my head I had two sides,so that one of the sides is
just starting to explore, liketheir body's physiology and why
their body is doing what it'sdoing.
Because often, often people,because of these messages
they've received, they've beenmaybe trying some kind of diet
(09:52):
or some kind of way of eatingthat hasn't been working and
then they have a feeling thattheir body is wrong, my body is
doing something bad.
I like, why I'm doing all ofthese things that I'm told to do
and I'm not ending up like I amtold I will in terms of looks
or in terms of like my life,feeling better and feeling more
worthy or being treated better.
(10:13):
So, firstly, it is aboutexploring why, like, why, why
your body is reacting the waythat it does.
And we know why diets don'twork.
We know, know why people diet,lose weight and then regain
weight again and then diet againand lose weight.
We know why that happens.
We know the physiology behindit, but people are still often
(10:34):
made to believe it's because oftheir willpower or something
they're doing wrong or theirbody's just bad.
So, exploring that side of it,to take away that blame and
shame for their own body andhelping them explore why they
believe that.
So if we think about ourbeliefs, our beliefs are just
(10:55):
thought pathways in our brain,so just neural pathways in our
brain that forms our thoughts.
And then when they get really,really strong, they're things
that we believe like we believethem so strongly it can be hard
to like see any other way.
And they get strong by repeatedexposure to these messages and,
of course, when we are engagingwith them as well.
So looking at where they've gotall their information for so
(11:19):
long, why these messages are sostrong in their brain, and
bringing in differentperspectives on that, bringing
bringing in new information.
So a CBT approach there.
But yeah, we might be bringingin new information by what we're
talking about and then they canstart to challenge their own
thoughts themselves.
But also I'll recommend othercontent for them to listen to,
(11:42):
to read, to absorb, so that theyhave other information coming
in as well to help them.
Speaker 1 (11:48):
Yeah, yeah, I think that's so powerful.
It's like what are you exposingyourself to and how can you be
intentional about the input thatyou're giving your brain?
Speaker 2 (11:57):
Because, like you said, it's just a pathway that's
been carved over and over andover and over, so you have to
introduce new stimulus so thatyou can carve a new path yeah,
and sometimes even just knowingthat can can take the pressure
off the kind of thoughts orbeliefs we have, knowing that
(12:18):
there is another way or knowingwhy we think these things and
like, really believe thesethings that are then causing us
so much stress and are nothelpful.
So just knowing why and knowingthat there is a way to think
differently, to feel differently, can be helpful in itself.
Speaker 1 (12:33):
Oh, I think so too, and freeing, like it's almost
like when somebody is practicinga speech and then you get in
front of other people and itlike catches you off guard and
makes you a lot more mindful ofwhat you're saying and how loud
you're saying it, and that's sotrue for how our thoughts are
too, I think, when we becomeaware of, well, why am I
(12:54):
thinking this way, and ooh, thatwas an interesting thought and
like the thoughts are alreadygoing to change, just knowing
that they're being observed.
Speaker 2 (13:02):
Yeah, absolutely.
Sometimes, especially whenpeople are maybe really
struggling with the activity ofbringing in new thoughts, we'll
talk about just starting withlabeling them.
So sometimes I mean I love thelabel, just like diet, culture
and true self-thoughts, but anykind of label it could just be
that's an unsupportive thoughts,unsupportive thought and
(13:23):
supportive thought, like anykind of label that just
separates, like the two, I guess, two broad, different kinds of
thoughts those ones that areleading you down a path of
beating yourself up, of justtrying to control your body and
causing a lot of stress aroundfood in your body, and then
those that are being more caringand kind and focused on what
(13:43):
will actually support my body,not just what will actually
control my body.
Speaker 1 (13:46):
To look different, oh yeah, I love that.
What do people mean when theytalk about diet culture?
Because that's a pretty popularterm right now and I don't
think I bet my perspective of itis very different than a
dietician's perspective of it.
So how would you define dietculture?
Speaker 2 (14:04):
Like diet culture is the system of beliefs within our
culture that tell us, like whatmakes us worthy, what makes us
valuable, what we should, Iguess, what our values or our
goals in life should be.
So in our culture it's verymuch like everything we learn as
(14:24):
we're talking about before.
It's very much like if you'rethinner, you're more worthy if
you're eating this particularway and the way of eating can be
so different depending whatkind of subculture I guess we're
in or where we get ourinformation.
But if you're eating especiallysomeone who's maybe doing a
kind of diet that there is apart of a community or something
(14:45):
, if you're eating this certainway, then you're a good person.
If not, then you're a failurewithin that community.
Diet culture is also veryoppressive.
So it says that if you don'tmeet these kind of ideals which
is often like really thin orsometimes like thin and muscular
and able to eat in thisparticular way, which not
everyone is going to be for somany reasons, not able to eat in
(15:05):
this particular way, which noteveryone is going to be for so
many reasons, not able to eat inthat way like think of
neurodiversity and foodsensitivities and just different
cultures then you're not kindof good enough and we're going
to hold all these things back.
So just thinking about likehealthcare is not as accessible
for people in larger bodies.
There's a lot of like barriersand limitations to care that
(15:26):
they receive, whether it's beinglike cutoffs for receiving care
or whether it's just not beingbelieved when they go to a
doctor and say I've got, I don'tknow, I've got like a sore
throat and it's like we'll loseweight or I've got like anything
going on, and the advice canoften be they can not be
believed and given this genericlose weight advice rather than
(15:47):
having things investigated,which does mean people get
delayed diagnosis of illnessesthat really do matter.
So things like cancer diagnosiscan be delayed just because of
body size.
So that's where diet culture isnot just about kind of.
Although body image is so, soimportant, it's not just about
making people feel rubbish intheir body.
It's also about people'squality of life, people's access
(16:10):
to health care, um people's pay, like people in larger bodies
are shown to have lower likesalaries as well.
That's obviously on average,not every single person, but
there's just so many factors.
So it's an oppressive systemthat creates like value and
worth based on our largely, ourbody size and the way that we
(16:32):
eat whoa, that's so deep and sofascinating.
Speaker 1 (16:36):
I never thought of that that well and I mean, why
didn't I think of this?
But that doctors have thesejudgments and their access to
healthcare, oh my gosh, that'svery sad.
Speaker 2 (16:50):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (16:51):
Wow, okay.
So what's a small shift thatpeople can start to make to like
get out of this whole idea ofdiet culture and unhealthy
eating patterns or unhealthyrelationships with food?
Speaker 2 (17:07):
I guess the main difference between dieting and
not dieting, apart from just, Iguess, learning the maybe having
to relearn that connection withthe body and things.
The main difference is whenwe're dieting.
So when we're following likesome kind of rules to guide our
eating, or maybe it's guide ourmovement and things as well
(17:27):
we're doing that with a sense ofcontrolling the body.
So if we're weight loss dieting, then we're trying to control
the body to be like a certainsize or to look a certain way,
whereas if we're not dieting andwe're eating intuitively or
eating in a supportive way, thenwe're trying to work with the
body.
So then we're trying to saywhat does my body actually need?
(17:49):
So rather than saying I'veeaten so much already today, I'm
just not going to have a snackin the afternoon, even though I
feel hungry, we're going tothink I'm feeling hungry and
that can be a skill to learn ifwe've been disconnected from our
hunger or not using it for awhile.
It a skill to learn that initself.
But we're going to say I'mfeeling hungry and my body would
like benefit from some foodright now to get me through the
(18:11):
rest of the afternoon or to giveme more energy until dinner or
or something like that, andthere's lots of different ways
we can switch that mindset tolike working with our body.
So we're looking at it fromlike a caring perspective and
developing that trust.
This this is something that cantake a while to do as well, but
we're developing that trust thatwhen we're caring for our body
(18:32):
with food but also other ways ofas in, we're not beating
ourselves up where other otherkind of self-care needs as well.
Within reason, there's alwaysgoing to be times that we can't
maybe access things as thingsthat are going to be stressful.
But when we're caring for ourbody that we trust our body to
to find the weight and the shapethat is most comfortable for
(18:52):
our body, whereas when we'refighting against our body, that
control of our body kind ofleads us to be trying to control
it and our body to get to beseeing like from an evolutionary
perspective.
When we try to control, ourbody sees that as restriction
and scarcity of food and thingsnot being available.
(19:13):
So our body then fights back totry and make sure that we do
eat more.
So it's going to like increaseour hunger drive and it's also
going to fight back in terms ofputting our body into a place
where we're more likely to gainweight, because that's so
important for our body to not belosing weight through
restriction of food or throughfood scarcity.
Speaker 1 (19:32):
That makes so much sense because when I've tried to
lose like the baby weight, assoon as I'm trying to lose
weight I'm like starving yeah.
So that makes so much sense tome.
Speaker 2 (19:44):
And there's probably both like the physiological
hunger drive there as well, butalso even if we end up still
eating enough, whatever enoughis just that restriction can
trigger, or does trigger, ourbody to think more about food
and to want food more becauseit's worried about food not
being available.
Speaker 1 (20:03):
What a good.
I bet that's so empowering.
Just hearing this is soempowering because it's like,
yeah, you're right.
Wow, I never thought about itthat way, like being
collaborative.
It's interesting, becausethat's really a lot of ways that
therapists help clients too is,instead of trying to control
the emotions which you have nocontrol over, just kind of
becoming friends with youremotions and being collaborative
(20:26):
with your emotions and tryingto hear, like, well, what is
that feeling telling you?
So it sounds really similar tohow dieticians help clients
maybe stop struggling and tryingto control the body and work
with it.
Speaker 2 (20:40):
Yeah, do you know, I often think that it gets really
frustrating seeing all of ourdiet culture messages still so
focused on controlling the bodyand within healthcare it's still
so focused on controlling thebody, and then, in a kind of
more general mental health space, there's this like big movement
towards like accepting andunderstanding, like mindfulness
approaches and you know, ouremotions are okay, we're allowed
(21:03):
to feel our emotions and weshouldn't be fighting them and
all of this approach and I'mlike why do we have it happening
there, which is great, but whydo we not have it happening in
terms of our body and physiology, and also like our eating cues,
like appetite cues.
Speaker 1 (21:19):
Yeah, you're right, it's time for that, for that,
definitely, and it's so.
Speaker 2 (21:22):
It's kind of intuitive, like if we're doing
it with our emotions and ourfeelings and our mental health,
why not just go ahead andgeneralize it to food and our
bodies and it's all connectedyeah, absolutely, and like,
importantly, with mood as well,there can be such a big focus
Like sometimes the information Isee on mood is these very
(21:45):
specific foods and that's what'sgoing to help you feel better.
But the most important firstpart of that is that we need to
be eating enough food, becauseif we're not eating enough food,
our body's hunger drive isgoing to be kicking in.
We're going to be thinkingabout food all the time.
That's just physiologicallywhat our body's going to do.
We're going to have thisrestriction brain.
(22:06):
Our mind's going to be inrestriction mode where it's
worried about not getting food.
That impacts our mood and alsoour cortisol levels are
increased when our body is notgetting enough food as well,
when our body is not gettingenough food as well.
So, although different foodscan kind of help, if we're not
getting enough just enough foodat first, we're not going to be
(22:29):
able to process our emotions andconnect with that and think of,
like enjoy life properlyoutside of food and eating.
So, yeah, I think that's thepart that I often see missing
and considering.
Like dieting and restrictingour food is so overemphasized
everywhere.
There's a lot of people whowould be, I guess, going trying
to go to that next step, or likewhat can I eat to make myself
(22:50):
feel better, when really we justneed to start eating enough
food as that first step?
Speaker 1 (22:55):
I'm giggling because last night I served my family
dinner and it just wasn't a lot.
It was a small amount because Ifelt like we were wasting a lot
.
Well, anyways, my husband waslike still hungry and he was
being a jerk cranky, cranky,cranky.
And then he just commented likeoh, you know, what would be
really good right now is tacos.
(23:15):
So I ran across the street andI got him some tacos from this
taco joint that does $2 tacos on.
Tuesdays and I brought him homefood and his whole entire mood
shifted and he was like oh sorry, I was such a jerk, I think I
was hangry and I'm like, listen,I've had two babies.
I know all about being hangry,Because it's true, like when you
(23:39):
are in some kind of a caloriedeficit and your body needs
nourishment, you become salty ashell.
Speaker 2 (23:47):
It's so true.
And, yeah, I work with peoplewho have been dieting for a long
time and are kind of always ona diet or often on a diet.
It's kind of maybe this all ornothing cycle and just the way
they perceive themselves as well, and just the way they, like
perceive themselves as well, orjust the way they maybe are
acting.
It's not who they think thatthey truly are or like or who
they actually truly are.
(24:08):
They maybe are always grumpy.
Maybe it's like at theirchildren, maybe it's at their
partner, maybe it's just like ingeneral that they're always
feeling grumpy.
They're always feeling reallymoody and like what?
What is wrong with me?
We need enough food first.
That's the first thing we needto try.
Until you've got enough food,we don't really know if there's
something else that you needsupport with or where that would
be.
And, yeah, the impact onpeople's moods and just like
(24:30):
having the headspace to focus onthings outside of food and to
regulate our emotions and ourmood is just so powerful, just
having enough.
Speaker 1 (24:39):
Is it possible to be like chunky or overweight
squishy, if you will, and stillbe in a place where you're not
having enough food?
Because I feel like that's likea common misconception, because
a lot of times we're trying tolose weight, you know, get
thinner, but also we might notbe eating enough.
(25:00):
Could you talk about that alittle bit, because I feel like
that's something I struggle withsometimes.
Speaker 2 (25:05):
Absolutely so, so important.
Anyone can be starved, anyone,anybody size, that we can't look
at someone and say whether theyeat enough food, whether they
are, um, um, I guess, dieting,whether they're not dieting.
We can't look at someone andsay that.
And actually we know that in interms of eating disorders
(25:27):
themselves, we often see likestereotypically, anorexia is
very stereotypically like verylow weight people, um, that we
see represented.
But actually anyone can haveanorexia as well.
It's I mean, it's often calledatypical anorexia when someone
isn't in the very low bodyweight category, which I don't
like that term because thebehaviors and the clinical
(25:48):
symptoms can be exactly the same.
It's just someone's weightthat's different.
But research has found thatpeople there's a lot more people
with anorexia in a larger bodysize or just that don't meet
this criteria for anorexia thanthere are people who meet the
low weight criteria, be withchronic dieting, or they could
(26:19):
even be struggling so much thatthey do meet criteria if they
were assessed and sometimespeople do get assessed.
Often people just get told tokeep dieting, even if they meet
criteria for something likeanorexia.
Wow, um, it's actually like thenorm that when we are starving
ourself or we're not eatingenough food, our body doesn't
want to keep losing weight untilit gets like a very, very low
weight.
That's not what our bodydoesn't want.
To keep losing weight until itgets like very, very low weight.
(26:39):
That's not what our body wantsto do.
So for most people it's notgoing to get to these really,
really low weights.
So if we look at really lowweight anorexia that's there's
less people that are going toget to that place.
Then there are people whosebodies are going to stay a bit
higher weight even with verylittle food, and the body has
lots of different ways of likeadapting to starvation kind of
(27:00):
slows everything in the bodydown to conserve energy as much
as possible, mind blown wow,which makes a lot of sense when
you explain it, but I just don'tthink people are aware of that
because it's not talked about alot, absolutely.
Absolutely, and then that's whypeople miss out on support as
well, either not being likebelieved if they do try to reach
(27:23):
out to someone, like ahealthcare provider, or just
that they don't even feel likethey can reach out, because they
hear all these messages as welland think well, there must be
something wrong with me, mybody's not thin, so there must
be something I'm doing wrong andwe'll just stay in this cycle.
Speaker 1 (27:41):
Can anyone work with like a dietician?
Speaker 2 (27:45):
Yeah, what do you mean?
Anyone Like people can justreach out and if they want to,
yeah, yeah, like.
Speaker 1 (27:50):
so it sounds like.
What you're saying to me makesme feel like working with a
dietician should be just asnormalized as working with a
therapist, because I have astrong belief that everyone
should be working with atherapist, even if you're not,
because I think what you'resaying resonates with me when I
(28:10):
talk a lot about hey, everyonecan benefit from having a
therapist, you don't have to behaving a mentee bee and breaking
lamps and throwing plates atyour husband in order to benefit
from seeing a therapist.
It sounds to me like what you'resaying is the same for
dietitians.
Like, hey, it might not be abad idea to go see a dietitian
(28:33):
and maybe change yourrelationship to your body and to
food and nutrition.
That might be beneficial evenfor someone who's not rail thin
or super overweight.
Speaker 2 (28:45):
Absolutely.
Yeah, if you're experiencingstress around food so your
food's taking up like a lot ofyour thoughts during the day you
can't stop thinking about food,or maybe it's just more like at
nighttime or something and thatfeels quite stressful.
If it's really normal to eat foremotions, but if eating for
emotions is something that feelsout of control or it's bringing
(29:06):
up a lot of stress and that'slike what we turn to, then that
can also be a reason to see aspecialist dietitian in this
area.
If we're experiencing like foodbehaviors that just feel really
uncomfortable and again arebringing up a lot of stress,
then absolutely there doesn'tneed to be like any kind of
formal diagnosis to need supportand actually I love working
(29:30):
like majority of my clients Iwork with privately don't have
an official diagnosis of aneating disorder.
If they did, it's often in thepast and they're not under sort
of eating disorder services nowthey're in a place where things
have been more stable but food'sdoing really stressful.
So medically they're morestable but food is feeling very,
very stressful.
(29:50):
What I would say if you'rereaching out to a dietitian for
that support is there's so manydifferent specialties of
dietitians, so finding adietitian specialized in that
area- what are some examples ofspecializations in dietitians?
Speaker 1 (30:04):
Sorry, I just don't know.
I'm so curious.
Speaker 2 (30:07):
So you can be specialized in, say, oncology,
in renal, in like neuro, likestroke and neurological diseases
, and like rehab in so manyareas.
So dietetics is a very likeclinical area, largely so a lot
of dietitians work withinhospitals or within like um,
(30:28):
like community services, withinhealth care as well, and then
people who work in private couldbe so many specialties.
I guess like like gut issues,like ibs and other gut issues is
a big specialty that makes aheck of a lot of sense.
Yeah, lots of different ones.
So, like I'm not going to seesomeone who's reaching out for
something like for this otheradvice, because, although I
(30:49):
maybe have this, like I do havethis general knowledge of it,
but that's not what I commit, my, like, my CPD, like my
continuing professionaldevelopment and my ongoing
training and my supervision.
That's not in those areas.
So I'm not going to be up todate on all of these other.
Yeah, like that wouldn't be um,something you're.
Speaker 1 (31:09):
We use the word competent, which I know has a
negative connotation in thenon-clinical space, but in the
clinical space we talk about hey, is that something you feel
competent in?
Because if it's not, especiallynervous therapists, it's like,
hey, this isn't your area ofcompetency, so maybe you should
be referring them to somebodywho specializes in trauma.
Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (31:29):
Yeah, if the support is for that, yeah, okay, yeah,
so I'd suggest looking out forsomeone who's either a
specialist eating disorderdietician or for someone who's
also a certified intuitiveeating counselor and the like.
Additional training I did inintuitive eating is actually so
helpful when I work with eatingdisorders and when I work
outside of eating disorders, butit's really an approach that
(31:50):
helps us to to fight backagainst and like to understand
and challenge diet culture andunderstand and challenge like
our own thoughts and bring in,bring in more supportive, true
self-thoughts that support us toto care for our body as well as
connecting back with our body,so like a mindfulness approach,
to connect back with our body'sappetite as well as emotions and
(32:11):
other self-care needs, um, andhelp to also to separate, you
know, when there's all of thisinformation out there so there's
a heap of nutrition.
You can find anything you wantIf you want to.
If you want something to betrue about nutrition, you could
find it, because there's justall of this misinformation, all
of this just like hyped up kindof true information, like
(32:33):
anything is there.
So also helping people toseparate that out so that we can
use supportive knowledge whenit does help us and when that's
something that will can usesupportive knowledge, when it
does help us and when that'ssomething that will benefit us,
but without feeling stressedabout all of this jumble of
nutrition nonsense that's outthere.
Speaker 1 (32:49):
It's so true.
I think that's true for, likenutrition, mental health,
physical therapy right Like.
Good grief.
I just saw an influencer talkabout that.
She was like TikTok was gettingshut down and then all y'all
fitness influencers came out andadmitted to getting like
(33:09):
Brazilian butt lifts and notfollowing the workouts that you
were actually like advertising,she said.
That's the importance offinding somebody who's actually
a physical therapist or apersonal trainer or a dietician
or a mental health therapistlike please stop taking advice
from people who are not licensedand specialized.
(33:32):
Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (33:34):
and then I guess also checking the specialty, isn't
it as well?
Yeah, like checking thatsomeone's specialized in that
area, because of course we canlearn this at university, but
that's a long time ago, so wewant someone who's also doing
ongoing education and trainingin these specific areas as well.
Yeah, totally.
Speaker 1 (33:50):
So I like to ask this to everybody If you were going
to give somebody one specialpiece of advice about everything
that we've talked about today,one big takeaway, what would it
be?
Speaker 2 (34:01):
I think one big takeaway is that your body is
actually on your side so wedon't need to fight against it.
There's no reason that our bodywants to be causing us harm or
against us.
There's, I guess, when we'reable to stop fighting with it
(34:22):
and recognize that, okay, mybody's on my side.
What is it asking?
Even if it's telling you toguide it like having these
constant food thoughts, forexample, and that feels really
stressful and frustratingthere's a reason that's
happening.
So understanding that reasonthat that's happening, rather
than just trying to fightagainst those thoughts, is going
to be so much more helpful thangoing against our body.
(34:45):
So I guess thinking of it kindof like a friend if we're
constantly belittling, beratingthem, like we're going to keep
fighting, it's saying okay, Iwant to work with you, what are
you asking?
And that can take some supportas well.
But just that mindset shift ofmy body is on my side can be
really helpful.
Speaker 1 (35:03):
Be your body's friend .
People yeah, exactly, I lovethat.
That's really awesome andprofound.
Simple and profound.
Where can people find you ifthey want to work with you or
they want to know more about you?
Emma, you were just a wonderfulguest.
I'm sure people want to connectWell thank you.
Speaker 2 (35:22):
Yeah, I've got a website that is
foodlifefreedomcom or one word,foodlifefreedomcom and on there
I have we can work.
I'm based in the UK but I canwork with people from all over
if the time difference works foryou and all of that, so I do
(35:43):
have like consultations on there.
But also I've got some onlinecourses.
I self-paced online courses andthere's some freebies, so you
do jump on there.
There's a free ebook on fivesteps to find food joy and there
is a video training onemotional eating as well, so
they can be some things that arehelpful to get started.
Speaker 1 (36:03):
I have linked Emma's website in the show notes that
way you can hop over and grabone of her awesome freebies.
I know I'm going to right now.
Actually, I'm on her beautifulwebsite and I'm going to grab it
.
If you liked this episode,please, please, please, support
us by sharing it with a friend,maybe sharing it on your
Instagram story, maybe, I don'tknow, promoting it to your
(36:25):
colleagues, recommending it toclients you work with who could
benefit from it.
Share Sharing is caring y'all,and until next time, be friends
with your body.
It's not working against you.
I'll catch you on the nextepisode.
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