April 14, 2025 • 43 mins
Ever wondered why it's so hard to simply ask for what you need in relationships? Former attorney turned emotional intelligence coach Erin Darden brings clarity to this struggle, revealing how societal expectations, fear of rejection, and our own internalized guilt create barriers to honest communication.
"You can't pour from an empty cup, but women do it all the time," Erin observes, highlighting how many women see advocating for their needs as selfish rather than essential. Through our conversation, she unpacks the psychological and social factors that keep women silent, offering practical strategies to break this pattern.
The magic of this episode lies in its actionable advice. Erin shares her "magic sentence" formula—"I felt [emotion] when you [specific action], moving forward, can we [solution]?"—a simple yet powerful framework that transforms how you communicate. She emphasizes the importance of processing emotions before conversations and being specific about what you need, rather than expecting others to figure it out.
We explore the balance between assertiveness and aggression, the value of empathy even when it's difficult, and how to recognize when you're in relationships that consistently dismiss your needs. As Erin aptly puts it, "Don't go to a hardware store for bread"—sometimes we need to accept that certain people cannot provide the emotional support we're seeking.
Whether you're struggling in romantic relationships, friendships, or family dynamics, this episode provides the emotional intelligence tools to express yourself clearly and confidently. Challenge yourself to practice these strategies in small ways—your relationships (and your wellbeing) will thank you.
👉 Ask me a question or suggest a topic hello@kaylareilly.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Hey, welcome back to Not your Therapist.
This is the podcast where wetalk about life's mess, it's
magic and everything in between.
I'm your host, kayla.
I'm a licensed therapist.
I started and grew a grouppractice of more therapists and
I'm a mom of littles and I'myour go-to girly for no BS
mental health strategies.
This show is all about helpingyou break old patterns, protect
(00:22):
your peace and show up as yourbest and realest self in your
relationships, your work andyour own damn head.
And today's episode it's justso good.
It's so good.
I sat down with Erin Darden.
She is a former attorney whoturned emotional intelligence
coach.
So she left that courtroombehind and she followed her
(00:45):
passion for communication,diving headfirst into helping
people create high qualityrelationships.
So now she runs EQ for Love,which is a space for individuals
and couples who want to growpersonally and professionally in
their relationships andcommunication.
So she offers private coachingand she also has a membership
community.
That's honestly for anyonesingle dating in a committed
(01:08):
relationship, whatever it is.
If you're ready to level upemotionally and relationally,
that community is for you.
Check it out.
We talked about learningyourself so that you can
actually express your needs, howto practice empathy with your
partner, even when they're beingthe worst, and how to improve
(01:29):
your relationships withoutplaying therapist to everybody.
Erin's spunky, she's nononsense and she really knows
her shit when it comes toemotional intelligence.
I loved this conversation and Iknow you're going to too.
Speaker 2 (01:42):
Let's get into it conversation and I know you're
going to too, let's get into itReally, engulfed myself with
like well, why are we still here?
Right, and since it has such ahuge impact on our quality of
life, I'm like, well, I have theskillset right.
I've had to learn how tocommunicate.
I know how to problem solve asan attorney, right, and
emotional intelligence is thekey to all of those things.
(02:03):
And so, since I know thatpeople are not willing to leave
those relationships, maybe,right, I can help them at least
make those relationshipshealthier.
Speaker 1 (02:11):
You can only affect, like, if you're like, let's say,
one of 10, which a lot ofpeople work for, bigger
companies than that, but ifyou're one of 10, you've got 10%
of the power to change in arelationship.
(02:32):
You've got 50%.
A lot of the responsibility andthe accountability is on you.
Throughout my career of couplescounseling, I highly believe
that even if you have a partnerthat's unwilling to change you,
looking inwards and changingyourself will have ripple
effects on the dynamic,absolutely, and I tell my
(02:53):
clients that all the timethey're like well, my partner
doesn't want to come.
Speaker 2 (02:56):
And I said that's okay, because I'm sure there are
things that you were doing,maybe that some you're aware of,
some you are not aware of.
That's contributing to the waythat things are.
And I said the other thing isright.
Most people don't wanna argueby themselves, and so if you
learn how to manage youremotions so that it's not a
screaming match, if you learnhow to communicate effectively
where there's no way for yourpartner to derail the
(03:18):
conversation, they might yellfor a little while, but after a
while they're going to realizethat they're yelling by
themselves.
Speaker 1 (03:23):
Yeah, they're going to fizzle out real quick.
I like the saying if you wantto really win a game of tug of
war, drop the rope.
Yes, and for a lot of couplesthat's such a mindset shift.
It's like oh yeah, I don't haveto defend, define, explain
myself, I can just let go.
And if he wants to or she wantsto have compassion and want me
(03:48):
to be happier in thisrelationship, she'll come to the
table, or he'll come to thetable when he's good and ready.
Speaker 2 (03:54):
Yeah, I tell people take the gloves off.
Speaker 1 (03:57):
Oh, I love that.
I love that.
Take the gloves off.
I say put the swords down,right, okay, I want to jump into
this.
So we are going to talk todayabout expressing your needs,
communicating your needs withoutfear or guilt, and I think this
is so important right now,especially because women's
(04:18):
equality is incredibly important.
Our voices are so important.
However, I do not think we areequal and I think there's so
much socialization that happensthat keeps us small and in a
place of fear and guilt andserving other people.
So let's rock into this.
Let's talk about why do youthink it's so hard for women to
(04:40):
communicate what they want andneed in relationships?
Speaker 2 (04:46):
Many women struggle to communicate their needs
because of a deep-seated fear,whether it is fear of being
dismissed, fear of their needsby not being met, or fear that
they will seem like they'reasking for too much.
I think in other cases, somepeople may not have the full
clarity on what they actuallyneed, and so if you don't know
(05:06):
what you need, it makes it a lotharder to articulate that to
your partner.
I think, additionally, societyplays a role in it.
Women and especially when youstart talking about Black women,
we often grow up expecting tobe strong, expecting to be
independent, expecting to beself-sufficient right?
(05:27):
Women.
We've been taught to prioritizetaking care of everybody else.
Right.
We're the nurturers, we're themothers.
We take care of everybody else,and sometimes that's at the
expense of our own emotionalneeds, right?
And so this creates a patternwhere they start to, or we start
to, suppress our needs ratherthan expressing them.
(05:47):
I think another challenge isthe communication skills.
Even if a woman knows what sheneeds, if she lacks the
confidence or the right tools toexpress her way in a way that
fosters express herself, in away that fosters understanding
right, she may default to eitherbeing silent or she's going to
(06:11):
be frustrated.
And so I would say, even ifthese things are currently
present, the good thing is thatemotional intelligence can help
bridge that gap right byproviding the self-awareness,
the self-regulation and then theeffective communication
strategies.
Speaker 1 (06:31):
Yeah, and I think too , the pendulum swing right, like
I think.
A lot of times women don't wantto be fearful and silent and
small, so they go too far theother way and they're like I'm
independent and strong and Idon't need nobody.
And it's like okay, whetheryou're coming from a minority
group or you're coming fromgenerational trauma.
Either way, either extreme isnot going to serve you.
(06:52):
So it's about finding how can Ibe strong and still connect
with my softness, myvulnerability, my femininity,
and not see it as a weakness?
Yep, right.
Speaker 2 (07:07):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (07:07):
That's a challenge, because I think a lot of us go
to those extremes of eitherbeing withdrawn small, or we're
too big, we're too aggressive,we're too sassy, and I know that
there's this whole wave of ownit, and if people call you a
bitch, then then you keep beingassertive and it's like wait a
second.
There's a big differencebetween being assertive and
being aggressive andunapproachable.
Speaker 2 (07:29):
Absolutely.
If you want to be an effectivecommunicator, you have to speak
in a way that whomever you'retalking to can receive it.
And so I smiled when you weretalking about the pendulum,
because that was me.
I told you I was extremely shygrowing up and then I got tired
of waiting for people to treatme the way that I should be
treated, and so I'm like okay,girl, you got to learn how to
(07:51):
speak up for yourself.
But, like you said, I went frombeing shy and not asserting
boundaries to the other end ofthe spectrum, right, because now
, at this point, I'm in lawschool, so now that come out.
I'm also from Philadelphia, sothen that came out, so I'm going
to say what I got to say, Idon't care who, right.
But then I had to also learnthat that also was not like
receptive, even if I did.
(08:11):
Even a lot of times I didn'teven mean it, right?
I thought I was just being moreassertive, I thought I was
being more confident, but Icould see people like they would
start to recoil as I would talkand I'm like I'm just.
And so I had to learn thatthere is a balance, right, and
it's not going to be effectiveunless I'm speaking in a way
that they can receive.
And now sometimes it is themright.
(08:32):
If you know that you are sayingeverything as respectfully as
you can right, you aren't being,your tone is appropriate, your
language is appropriate and theystill have a problem with it,
then at that point it's not true, it's a them thing, but you
have to learn that.
I had to learn that.
That's something that it tookme years to figure out.
That, okay, there is a balanceand it might change depending on
(08:54):
who I'm talking to.
Speaker 1 (08:55):
Well, and, I think, recognizing too if it's a them
problem.
If he ain't in diapers, youcan't change him and learning to
find that acceptance and learnto let go.
I think surrender is very hardfor women who come from
generational trauma.
Or you know, it doesn't matterwhether you come from trauma or
(09:17):
not If you come from a family.
Especially our generation isinteresting because a lot of us
have parents who were raised byparents who grew up in the
Depression.
Yes, so there's this mentalitystill of very much patriarchy
the man's responsible for goingout and being the breadwinner,
the woman's responsible fortaking care of the household.
(09:38):
The man has more of animportance or a value.
And I think now we're shiftingand we're saying wait a second,
we're just as important, we workjust as hard, we work harder.
Right, I was going to say, ifnot harder, we have a lot more
of the emotional burden, thecognitive burden, whatever.
But I think with thatadjustment we have to have more
(09:59):
skills learning to find thatbalance.
And I resonate with you becauseI experienced the same thing
where I came from, anenvironment where I was raised
in fear and when I became anadult I went too far into
aggressive, strong, boss, babekind of vibes.
And now it's about finding thatbalance of wait.
(10:20):
Connecting with people is aboutsoftness.
Speaker 2 (10:23):
Yes, yes it is, and I think, softness.
But the other thing is empathy,and I think that's one thing
that is missing a lot in thisworld, and it's not that you
have to agree with the otherperson, but taking the time to
step into that person's shoes,to see things from their
perspective, and not to projectyour own experience on them or
(10:44):
to take whatever limitedinformation you know about
somebody but then apply yourbackground to it.
Right?
That's something that's verydifficult to do.
Why would they do this or whatdid it?
They should?
You can't say what they shouldor should not do because you're
not them, right?
You're seeing what they shouldor should not do based on your
experience, based on your past,based on your upbringing, based
on your skillset.
They don't have that sameexperience, skillset and
(11:06):
background, right?
And so you have to take thetime to take a step back, put
yourself to the side, which isextremely difficult.
Most people operate from aself-centered approach, and not
necessarily mean selfish, butbecause that's the only
perspective they have, and soyou have to sometimes take a
step back and realize that ifthis person is not opening up to
(11:28):
you or they're notcommunicating in a way that you
would like figure out why.
What's their experience withcommunication?
Did they grow up knowing thatit was okay for them to
communicate and share how theyfeel?
So it's also about, yes, beingsoft, but also being empathetic
and understanding.
Speaker 1 (11:46):
I love that, and you said something earlier that I
thought was really interestingthat you have to know yourself
in order to express what youneed, and I think that's a
powerful message for most people, because I don't think a lot of
women take the time to reflectand say, well, not only just
what do I need, but why do Ineed that, and is that a
(12:07):
realistic request from mypartner, or can I get my needs
met elsewhere?
Do I need them to validate me,or do I need to start practicing
validating myself?
Speaker 2 (12:18):
Yes, that's a lot Self-reflecting and also
processing your emotions.
Those are very big things.
Processing emotions is one ofthe number one things that I
teach with clients and on socialmedia.
I don't want to get too farahead of our conversation, but,
yes, processing emotions isimportant if you're going to be
an effective communicator, whichis hard.
Speaker 1 (12:40):
Okay.
So what about the guilt factor?
Like, why do you think guilt issuch a?
I don't know if it's true formen, but it's certainly true for
women that guilt kind ofshadows a lot of this
conversation, I think.
Speaker 2 (12:54):
Yeah.
So I think it's because manywomen have internalized
internalized, yeah.
So I think women feel guiltyasking for what they need
because they've internalized theidea that they should be
self-reliant and not need help.
Especially, women are supposedto be strong.
(13:18):
This reinforces the belief thatthey should be able to handle
any and everything on their own,and this is what makes it
difficult to acknowledge when weneed support, and that will
lead to feelings of guilt oreven shame when they finally do
say, hey, I need help.
(13:39):
I think women are also thecaregivers, right?
And their families, theirrelationships, their children,
their parents, which is what I'mkind of going through at the
moment and so we're used topouring into other people and
probably not receiving as muchas we give.
So I tell people you can't pourfrom an empty cup, but women do
it all the time, and so I think, as a result, they may see
(14:02):
advocating for their needs asbeing selfish.
Right, I'm supposed to be herefor everybody else.
I don't have the time to alsoneed something myself, right?
Or I don't want to be a burdenon my partner or my children to
say, hey, I need help.
Burden on my partner or mychildren to say, hey, I need
help.
I think there is also a fear ofbeing labeled as needy or
(14:24):
nagging, so instead theysuppress their needs to try and
maintain this harmony right, andso I think the reality is that
needs are a normal part of beinghuman, that needs are a normal
part of being human.
Everybody has them, andexpressing them is not selfish
right.
It's actually essential forbuilding healthy and balanced
relationships.
Speaker 1 (14:45):
Oh, yes, well, and so many of us need to hear that,
like every day, probably in themorning.
It is normal part of being asocial being, a human being, to
have needs and wants and desires, and it's okay.
It's okay to have needs andwants.
Yes, relationships are supposedto be reciprocal.
Speaker 2 (15:06):
Yes, mutually beneficial yes, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (15:12):
And how many of us just I think the nature too of
being a caregiver to ourchildren kind of go against that
grain if that's what you'vebeen doing for so long,
(15:38):
especially if you were raised bysomeone who either did that
themselves or taught youdirectly like this is what
you're supposed to do.
Speaker 2 (15:46):
Yes, and sometimes I think it is not intentional.
I think because we are lookingafter so many people, right?
Like you said, our partners,our parents, our children, the
household, we're the managermaking sure everything runs,
when do we have the time tocheck in with ourself and say,
hey, you're tired, you'regetting burnt out?
Or even if you do, let's sayyou do take the time to say I'm
(16:09):
tired, I'm overwhelmed, I'mgetting burnt out.
Who is there to help you, right?
So I don't think that there'salways an intentional neglect on
our part.
I think sometimes it's just weget stuck in this rat race.
I don't have time to slow down,even consider myself.
And if I did and I doacknowledge what I need where am
I going to get it from?
Speaker 1 (16:28):
All right, let's talk a little bit about breaking
this cycle.
How can someone start to shiftthis mindset of doing for others
, giving to others, and shiftingthat into hey, I am worthy, I
have needs.
Speaker 2 (16:42):
Yep, so one of the biggest shifts that I did
personally.
So this is what I actually hadto do.
I had to tell myself myfeelings are valid.
I would literally repeat tomyself I have a right to feel
the way that I do.
Just that simple, I guess youcan call it an affirmation.
(17:02):
That simple affirmation helpedme to begin to acknowledge my
emotions instead of justdismissing them.
I think another turning pointfor me was when I was starting
to learn about emotionalintelligence and understanding
how the brain process emotions.
So our brains, every humanbrain, whether you're a man or a
woman, our brains are wired toprioritize emotions over logic,
(17:26):
and so that was a bigrealization for me, right?
Because as an attorney, I usedto pride myself on I'm logical
and I never wanted to be astereotypical emotional woman.
And so, as an attorney, I wastrained to focus on facts and
arguments, and I didn't want toseem like just that emotional
woman that just lacked logic.
(17:47):
But the truth is, emotionsaren't a bad thing.
They're not the enemy.
Emotions are information, andthey are there to tell you
something, and so the key isn'tto suppress them, it's to learn
how to manage them.
It's to understand what they'retrying to tell you right,
process them right and expressthem in a way that serves what
you need, right.
So I think shifting yourmindset.
(18:09):
It starts with self-awareness.
When you begin to recognizethat your emotions and needs are
valid, you give yourselfpermission to honor them,
instead of trying to suppressthem or dismiss them, or just
have them, sweep them under therug so that they go away quickly
.
Speaker 1 (18:25):
Yes, I often like that metaphor of signals or
lights on your dashboard in yourcar.
Yes, you know that if you keepignoring them, you're eventually
going to have a breakdown andthen you're going to have to
learn.
But it's a lot like learning.
Okay, what does that light mean?
And I have to kind of exploreand I have to address that, and
(18:47):
it might not go away right away.
I might have to drive 30 miles,right?
Speaker 2 (18:52):
It's a great metaphor , yeah, and even just ignoring
it doesn't make them go away.
I tell people all the time stopignoring your emotion.
They're trying to tell yousomething.
If you're sad, maybe they aretrying to tell you that a
boundary has been crossed or youhave some type of unmet needs.
Your emotions another metaphorI like they're your GPS signal.
They're trying to tell you turnhere, turn there.
(19:14):
If you just keep drivingstraight and they're telling you
need to get off this road, youwon't crash eventually.
Speaker 1 (19:21):
How many of us go and go, and go, and go and go and
never pay attention to that?
Like you said, you got a lawdegree, you liked law, but then
you started working in the fieldand you just say, oh, I got to
get it together, I got to moveforward.
I think some people end upstuck in careers like that for
decades and then it's like, ohgosh, it just feels so big to
(19:45):
say you know what?
I've been ignoring my GPS for areally, really long time and
I'm lost.
Yeah, careers relationships.
Speaker 2 (19:51):
You'd be surprised how many people I talked to so
when I first started thisbusiness.
I'm like well, why do besurprised how many people I
talked to so when I firststarted this business?
I'm like well, why do peoplestay?
And they know theserelationships are no longer
serving them?
Well, maybe they don't knowthat their relationship isn't
healthy?
No, I've learned people knowthat their relationships aren't
healthy, they know that theirmarriage is not healthy, but
they're still there.
Speaker 1 (20:10):
Have you ever read anything by Harville Hendricks?
I have not In the therapy world.
It's called Imago.
Okay, he's a psychologist.
You should read the bookGetting the Love you Want.
Okay, he talks about how wegravitate to familiar types of
love.
Yes, not because it's good forus, but because we have
(20:30):
unfinished business.
Okay, so a lot of us will stayin these really toxic, really
unhealthy partnerships or weleave that partner and we
attract somebody that's justlike them, exactly Right.
I used to joke I don't have Xs,I have Ys.
Why in the world would you keepdoing the same thing to
yourself?
But anyways, yeah, there's atherapeutic reason why, and it's
(20:54):
because we are attracted tofamiliar types of love until we
can grow and reclaim the partsof ourselves that we've lost.
Speaker 2 (21:03):
Yes, Usually in childhood yeah Right, and that
is so important.
And so a question that I getasked a lot is like why don't
you tell people what to do?
So if somebody was in anabusive relationship, you
wouldn't tell them to leave.
And I say no, unfortunately Iwouldn't.
And they're like, well, why?
I said somebody actually reachedout to me maybe like a month or
so ago on social media and sheshared that she's in an abusive
(21:25):
relationship and I asked her isshe ready to leave?
And she said no.
And so I was having anotherconversation and it came up and
they were like well, why didn'tyou tell her to leave?
I said because she's not ready.
And I said, even if once she'snot going to listen just because
I said leave.
But let's say even if she did,that means she hasn't learned
her lesson right.
She has to learn on her ownwhat part of her was attracted
(21:46):
to that and kept her there,because otherwise, if she leaves
prematurely without learningthat lesson, she's going to go
pick the same person again,learning that lesson, she's
going to go pick the same personagain.
Speaker 1 (22:02):
That is so true and I love that you recognize that
and you're sharing that message,because I think that's so
important.
I think too many couplescounselors, coaches, authors I
think too many of them are likejust leave, you deserve better.
And it's like wait a second.
A lot of this isn't even aboutthat person.
A lot of it's about you andwhat you can unlock.
You're in this.
Whether you're religious or not.
(22:24):
God doesn't send us more thanwe can handle.
Right, and that a lot of timeswe've other other sayings are
like there's a reason.
There's a reason.
A lot of us.
Speaker 2 (22:37):
And one of my.
I saw a post on I think it wasInstagram, and it said the pain
will leave once you learn thelesson.
Speaker 1 (22:46):
It's so true and you can't force it.
A lot of times it's aboutsurrender and acceptance, All
right.
Speaker 2 (22:52):
So we're talking about kind of having to fight
these patterns starting to feelworthy, starting to pay
attention to your feelings, whatare simple, doable, like.
(23:13):
First ask yourself why do Istruggle to speak up?
Is it because you don't knowhow to articulate what you're
feeling?
Are you afraid of how the otherperson will react?
Do you avoid conflict at allcosts?
Understanding the why behindyour silence is the first step
to breaking the pattern.
And so, once you identify yourblock, start small.
(23:35):
And so, once you identify yourblock, start small.
You don't have to jump off thedeep end and have extremely deep
emotional conversations rightaway.
Try practicing with somethingthat has lower stakes, right,
like, let's start with juststating your preference about
where you want to eat.
When he says, what do you wantto eat?
Have an answer Nice.
What do you want to eat?
Have an answer, nice.
What do you want to watch?
(23:56):
Tell him.
And so I think the more youpractice advocating for yourself
in small ways, the moreconfidence you'll build to
express your deeper needs.
But you got to understand why.
And then, even if it is, let'ssay, you lack the skills, right,
then it's a.
Well, are you taking time toprocess?
(24:16):
Are you afraid that?
How they're going to react?
Tell them what you need upfront, all right.
So there's different thingsthat you can do depending on the
why, but you have to understandwhy before you can overcome
anything what would you say topeople in terms of how they can
do that self-reflection?
yep.
So if they know that there issomething that is burning,
(24:38):
burning them up, and they don'tknow, should I say something?
Should I not Ask yourself whatare you afraid of?
What's the worst that canhappen?
So you have to understand why.
Why are you afraid?
Do you feel like you'reoverthinking?
And it's not that serious.
You don't know if it's seriousenough to speak up about and
it's not that serious.
You don't know if it's seriousenough to speak up about.
(24:58):
Has this person dismissed howyou have felt in the past?
Do you think that they're gonnascream, bite your head off or
something?
So you have to ask yourselfthat question why are you afraid
to speak up?
Speaker 1 (25:11):
Yeah, so it sounds like a lot of asking yourself
simple questions like what am Iwanting?
Why am I wanting it?
Why am I afraid to speak mytruth in any situation?
Okay, I love that.
Speaker 2 (25:19):
That's really helpful , I think.
Another question I would add tothat list is what would happen
if I don't speak up.
Speaker 1 (25:27):
Ooh nice.
What's going to happen if Icontinue to stay silent?
Yeah, I love that.
Okay, so what are some of thebiggest mistakes, then, that
women make when they're tryingto express themselves and
communicate their needs inrelationships?
Speaker 2 (26:02):
women think that they are expressing their needs, but
they're actually talking attheir partner rather than
engaging in the conversation.
Right?
This is what we were talkingabout earlier with the pendulum,
Like once you've gone to theextreme and you're talking at
you know, instead of having aproductive conversation.
I think another mistake isfocusing too much on their
partner's actions instead oftheir own feelings.
So you never prioritize me.
(26:22):
That is a lot different thansaying I feel unimportant when
our time keeps getting pushedaside.
So the first statement is goingto make somebody defensive,
while the second one invites asolution or another example.
You never help out around thehouse, as opposed to I feel
overwhelmed with how householdchores are allocated.
(26:44):
Can we talk about thedistribution of tasks in this
house?
And I think, finally, I think alot of women go into these
conversations without havingfully processed their own
emotions first, and so if youhaven't taken the time to
understand why you feel the wayyou do, the conversation can
(27:05):
become reactive and notproductive.
Speaker 1 (27:10):
I love that particular tip because I think
if you're coming in hot, you'renot going to.
It's funny to me because it'slike a lot of times we're just
living in that reactive brain,yes, and then later we're like
why would I approach him likethat?
I wasn't going to get him to belike sure, I'll start taking
the trash out more.
Speaker 2 (27:28):
Right, yes, right.
And so I tell people you cannotbe both emotional and logical
at the same time.
The brain does not allow it.
And so if you feel still soconsumed with your emotions,
right, if you're doing theyelling, the screaming, the
cussing, right, you're still inthat emotional portion of the
brain.
Right, you think with the frontpart of your brain, and so the
(27:50):
signal hasn't made it that far,and so you can't have a
productive conversation when youare still so consumed with your
emotions.
Speaker 1 (27:57):
Yes, yes, yes, yes or any kind of escalated yes, Walk
away, yes, all right.
So how do you deal withsomebody if a woman is now?
Hey, I'm advocating for myself,I'm asking in these little ways
, I'm practicing, communicatingmy needs in an approachable way,
but I'm being more assertivewhat happens or what would you
(28:21):
say to someone if then theirpartner or their boss or their
mother or whoever, comes back inan invalidating way or
dismissive way?
Speaker 2 (28:31):
So I will say this first.
I think sometimes peopledismiss needs unintentionally.
I don't think it's always onpurpose, so I'll use me for an
example.
I used to jump straight intoproblem solving mode when
somebody would tell me abouttheir problems, but I thought I
was being helpful.
Right, you tell me a problem?
Okay, what are we going to doabout it?
(28:52):
Did you think about this?
Did you think about that?
It wasn't until a guy I wasdating.
He told me that he feltdismissed, he didn't want
solutions at that moment.
He wanted to feel heard, and sothat experience made me realize
that sometimes people just needto be validated first, and so I
think a great way to handlethis is to set expectations
before you start talking.
(29:13):
Say, I don't need advice rightnow, I just need to vent, or I
need a sounding board to help meprocess my emotions.
So if you give that clarityupfront, that can prevent
miscommunication and it makes itmore likely that your needs can
be met.
Now, if somebody constantlyinvalidates your feelings, even
(29:35):
after you bring it to theirattention, that's a red flag,
right?
Long-term, you should assesswhether or not this person is
emotionally safe for you, right?
So I think, once you are nolonger in that specific
conversation.
I tell people have aconversation about how you
communicate.
Hey, when you do this, I feeldismissed, right?
(29:57):
I had this conversation with mymom that something happened.
She's like, oh, you can do it.
I personally don't like that.
Don't tell me I can do it.
It's not a question aboutwhether or not I can do it.
I'm saying I'm overwhelmed atthe moment.
Validate that I feeloverwhelmed.
Don't just tell me I can do it,because it doesn't matter.
If you're overwhelmed, you cando it.
(30:21):
My mom's classic one is isyou'll get through it?
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (30:22):
you can just face.
You're so strong and right.
I don't want to hear that.
Speaker 2 (30:25):
I want to hear all normal at all, right and so and
I tell people right, that'sanother example of this not
being on purpose, um, but it's areal thing, and so I think you
just have to sometimes have aconversation like, hey, when you
say this, it makes me feel Iknow you mean it for good.
However, the impact is that Ifeel dismissed, like you did not
(30:48):
validate that I'm struggling atthe moment, or that I feel
overwhelmed or I feel frustrated, whatever it is that you shared
, and so just the you have to bethe timing matters with
encouragement when you haveconversations, any of it.
Speaker 1 (31:03):
Well, and I think, to kind of riff off of what you're
saying, that these previousgenerations they weren't talking
about emotional intelligence,they didn't have the internet,
they didn't have reels, andtherapy was like very, very
young, and it's infancy coachingwasn't even a thing.
Right, was like very, veryyoung.
In its infancy Coaching wasn'teven a thing.
So you're talking about almostlike an awakening of the human
(31:28):
population, of being in tunewith our emotions, learning how
to speak to other people.
Did it exist?
Yeah, but it wasn't as readilyavailable.
So I remember saying to my dadonce I finally just snapped and
was like you are so invalidatingand he's like I don't even know
what the fuck that means.
Speaker 2 (31:51):
Yeah, that's real.
It's like when I told my mom,like don't say I can do like
it's dismissive.
The next day she was like weneed to talk.
You hurt my feelings.
How did I hurt your feelings?
Because me telling her that youcan do it was dismissive.
What did she say to her?
It made her feel like I don'tbelieve what she says.
(32:12):
And I said in my brain I'mthinking like how did this even
become about you?
Like I'm just explaining thatit doesn't have the impact that
you thought it did, like itdoesn't at all.
Speaker 1 (32:26):
This is how it's affecting me.
Yes, but it hurt her feelingsand I had to give her.
Speaker 2 (32:30):
Another example, like because I know that she
dislikes when people tell her.
Like because my dad is sick andso she always hates when people
say like God will never giveyou more than you can, than you
can bear.
I said so when people say thatto you.
Will never give you more thanyou can bear, I said so.
When people say that to you,does it make you feel better
about daddy being sick?
And she's like no, I hate it.
Ding ding, ding.
I'm saying it's the same thing.
Yes, I understand that you meanit for good.
(32:52):
So do they.
When they tell you.
I said but it's not impactversus intent.
Well, and I think two importantthings right.
Speaker 1 (33:01):
One is you have to know who's safe and who's not.
So if you continuously go toyour mom when you know that your
mom cannot emotionally validateyou, you're going to a hardware
store for bread and you'rebeing upset that you're starving
.
Speaker 2 (33:15):
Yes, that's a very good one.
Speaker 1 (33:20):
Like don't go to a hardware store for bread.
So that's like realizing whenpeople cannot give you what
you're wanting.
And two, I think making sureyou're utilizing language or to
request something that they canactually give you.
That's approachable.
So, instead of telling my momthat she's invalidating, I've
(33:47):
been practicing, on being like,hey, I just need you to say, wow
, you're overwhelmed and so, andshe's really been trying.
So I think when we give peoplethe roadmaps to success, I think
people want to succeed in theirrelationships with us.
Right, absolutely so.
When we give them and you know,husbands in particular yeah,
hey, this is what I'm wanting,they want to succeed, they want
to please you.
Speaker 2 (34:07):
That that is so true.
So I remember when I was alawyer, like the guy I was
dating at the time, when I wouldgo like to tell him about work
and like everything that wasgoing on, he would jump straight
into solution mode and I'm likethat's not helpful.
And so he did ask me, like hewas at least aware enough to
well, what is it that you need?
And I told him what I need.
All I need you to say is likewow, that's crazy.
(34:29):
And he, literally after thatday he would just write back
like wow, that's crazy, that'sall I needed.
It was a little bit humorous,but no, really it helped my
husband.
Speaker 1 (34:42):
I'm always like I hate it when I say something to
him and he just won't.
He just doesn't, he's justquiet and I'm like you could
grunt that's like all you got todo is go uh-huh, right, oh, and
now that's a joke between us,because I'll be speaking and
he's like huh huh, whateverRight, but I, because I'll be
speaking and he's like huh, huh,whatever Right, but I
(35:03):
appreciate the effort.
I do too.
A for effort, yes, okay.
So how can women spot whenthey're in a dynamic that really
discourages them fromexpressing their needs?
Kind of like a hardware store.
How do you recognize whenyou're in one of those
relationships that I don't knowif you're going to get what you
need?
Speaker 2 (35:22):
I think you have to pay attention to how your
partner engages with you.
Do they genuinely ask howyou're doing when you share?
Do they listen?
Do they ask follow-up questions?
Do they show interest?
I think another sign is howthey react when you express your
vulnerability.
Do they shut down theconversation?
Do they get defensive?
(35:49):
Do they change the subject?
If your needs are constantlydismissed or minimized, you may
be in a dynamic where your voiceisn't being valued, and so I
think a simple test that you cando share something small about
your day and see how theyrespond.
If they don't engage or theyalways turn a conversation back
to them, that's a sign that yourneeds may not be a priority in
this relationship.
Speaker 1 (36:08):
Wow, that's good.
That's really good.
Okay, all right.
And what?
All right?
So we've talked about a lottoday.
I love everything that you'resharing and helping women with.
I love everything that you'resharing and helping women with.
What is one practical piece ofadvice for women today that they
can start to get morecomfortable with this idea of
(36:30):
advocating for themselves?
Speaker 2 (36:32):
Yes, and so the one piece of advice is going to be
is kind of layered.
I know you only said one, butit's going to be layered.
You're going to hit me withmultiple, okay, great.
So before you have anyconversation, you have's going
to be layered.
It hit me with multiple, okay,great.
So before you have anyconversation, you have to
process your emotions first.
Yeah, right.
And so you asked me earlier howdo you do this?
So there's a few questions thatI do this day to myself.
(36:54):
I do this for myself to thisday, right?
So these are the questionsyou're going to ask what emotion
am I experiencing?
Right, and I use, when I'mworking with people, I have them
pull out the wheel of emotionso that they can actually
identify what it is, so we cango beyond the eight primary
emotions.
Right, there's primary and thenthere are secondary emotions.
So what emotion am Iexperiencing?
(37:16):
For you understand whattriggered this emotion?
Like, is it something thatsomebody says somebody did?
Like when did you first noticethat your energy changed?
All right, so is this a fact?
Or is it a fact or feeling?
Right?
So there's a difference betweenhaving emotions and feelings.
(37:36):
So feelings are how youinterpret what happened versus
your emotions that you feelabout the situation.
So is this a fact or a feeling?
Love that, once you come up withthat, I tell people to figure
out.
Is this a me, them or usproblem?
Is this something that I needto work on?
Is this something that theyneed to work on?
Is this something that we bothneed to work on?
(37:58):
Right, because sometimes it isa me problem.
If it's a me problem, Iprobably I'm not saying anything
.
Yeah, I realize that'ssomething that I need to do,
right, something I'm probablysensitive about because of my
past experience.
Right, so, me, them or usproblem.
And then, what is it thatyou're hoping to get out of this
conversation?
Speaker 1 (38:17):
I love that Like coming in with a very clear
intent.
Speaker 2 (38:20):
Very clear, right, and so, and I will even give you
, like this magic sentence thatI give to all of my clients.
So, when you go into aconversation with the level of
clarity, you're less likely tooverthink Should I say something
, should I not?
Is this a fact?
Is this a feeling?
Right, you won't be.
You won't get defensive ormanipulated.
(38:41):
Right, when you have a goodunderstanding of how you're
feeling, nobody can turn thataround on you.
Yes, right, you also are goingto avoid unnecessary arguments,
because if you use the sentenceI gave you, there is no way, no
logical way, for your person orwhomever you're talking to to
derail the conversation or forit to escalate.
(39:02):
And so, once you process youremotions, this is the magic
sentence I like to use.
I felt the emotion when you didthe specific action moving
forward, can we?
What's the solution?
I love that, all right.
So let's say you feeloverwhelmed because of how you
(39:23):
do much more in the house withthe kids and the household,
right, so I felt overwhelmed onSaturday when you went to go
play basketball and left me homewith the kids and the house was
a mess.
Right, moving forward.
Can you help me straighten upbefore you go play basketball?
Speaker 1 (39:40):
Oh, I love that.
It's so clear.
It's really doable.
I think that's where a lot ofpeople go wrong is can you start
to prioritize my needs more,right?
It's like no, no, no, don't askfor that.
Ask for something tangible.
Speaker 2 (39:53):
Like hey, for 20 minutes before you go play
basketball, help me pick upsomething before you leave out
the house, like, just help me doat least one thing, right, but
be specific, like and you'retelling them exactly what you
need.
I had a console last week andher and her fiance have kind of
separated at the moment and Isaid well, have you ever had a
conversation about these thingswith him that you're telling me?
(40:14):
And she said yes, and he saidhe'll work with him.
He doesn't know how work withhim.
He doesn't know how.
Did you tell him how?
And she said no.
I said well, if you can't tellhim how, how was he supposed to
know?
how do you get the famousresponse well, he should know,
he should know, he should know,and it's like, well, you don't
even know, I said, but you don'teven know, so how can he and it
(40:37):
, and it was something like veryspecific to her, like very
specific Okay how is he supposedto know what you need to?
How I said?
So I think you have to do somemore self-reflecting about what
exactly it is that you need.
Okay, you know you feel thisway, whether it's overwhelmed or
frustrated.
(40:57):
What do you need so that youdon't feel frustrated?
Because it's going to bedifferent from person to person.
Right, I can say I feeloverwhelmed and let's say he
goes and washes the dishes, butwhat if I really need the help
with putting the kids to bed atnight?
Oh my gosh, I resonate withthat.
Speaker 1 (41:11):
So hard because my husband's like but wait, I did X
, y, z and I'm like I didn'tneed you to do that.
I needed you to do this, likethe garage can wait.
Yes, the garage can wait.
I need the crap in from the car, which is what I use every day.
Yeah, I think that's you know.
One of my favoriteinterventions working with
couples is giving them each apiece of paper and saying write
(41:34):
down small, medium and big waysthat your partner could help you
feel better more loved, moreconnected whatever, and then rip
that piece of paper off andgive it to the other person
Because it's that roadmap right.
It's give my partner specificthings they could do to succeed
with me.
Speaker 2 (42:00):
Yes, yes, I love that and I love that really with my
single ladies, that we'reputting them in a better
position for dating, give themthe romance.
And, like so many people,they're like no, I don't want to
.
He got to pull teeth, he got tofigure it out.
And I'm like why do you want towaste your time?
If you want flowers, tell them,I like flowers.
If you want to have fun, don'tgo out to dinner for the first
day.
Go have fun.
Like to see if you can have funwith this person.
(42:21):
Like life is short.
You need to get the informationyou need as quickly as possible
.
Like help them out, tell themdon't wait for him to have to
pull teeth.
And I'm like who wants to dothat?
Tell them exactly what you need, and if you don't know what you
need, then that's where youneed to start.
But once you do, tell them yeah, I like this, I don't like that
.
Speaker 1 (42:38):
I think it's totally self-sabotage waiting for people
to like figure you out.
Speaker 2 (42:43):
Yes, absolutely, absolutely, really.
Speaker 1 (42:48):
And that's a wrap.
My friends, how good was that.
Erin seriously brought the heatand the truth bombs.
It was a lot of fun.
You could tell that we areprobably going to be good
friends because we really get on.
You can find Erin on TikTok,erin Darden.
She is dropping relationshipgold on the daily.
(43:09):
I follow her now and I thinkyou should too.
And while you're over there,come say hi to me too.
Let's be friends.
I swear I'm really fun on theinternet and don't just listen
and bounce.
I want to hear from you whatcame up for you during this
episode.
Where are you struggling toidentify and express your needs?
Truly, slide into my DMs onTikTok and let's talk about it.
Thanks for hanging out with metoday.
(43:30):
I'll catch you next time on,not your Therapist.
Hey, welcome back to Not your Therapist.
This is the podcast where wetalk about life's mess, it's
magic and everything in between.
I'm your host, kayla.
I'm a licensed therapist.
I started and grew a grouppractice of more therapists and
I'm a mom of littles and I'myour go-to girly for no BS
mental health strategies.
This show is all about helpingyou break old patterns, protect
(00:22):
your peace and show up as yourbest and realest self in your
relationships, your work andyour own damn head.
And today's episode it's justso good.
It's so good.
I sat down with Erin Darden.
She is a former attorney whoturned emotional intelligence
coach.
So she left that courtroombehind and she followed her
(00:45):
passion for communication,diving headfirst into helping
people create high qualityrelationships.
So now she runs EQ for Love,which is a space for individuals
and couples who want to growpersonally and professionally in
their relationships andcommunication.
So she offers private coachingand she also has a membership
community.
That's honestly for anyonesingle dating in a committed
(01:08):
relationship, whatever it is.
If you're ready to level upemotionally and relationally,
that community is for you.
Check it out.
We talked about learningyourself so that you can
actually express your needs, howto practice empathy with your
partner, even when they're beingthe worst, and how to improve
(01:29):
your relationships withoutplaying therapist to everybody.
Erin's spunky, she's nononsense and she really knows
her shit when it comes toemotional intelligence.
I loved this conversation and Iknow you're going to too.
Speaker 2 (01:42):
Let's get into it conversation and I know you're
going to too, let's get into itReally, engulfed myself with
like well, why are we still here?
Right, and since it has such ahuge impact on our quality of
life, I'm like, well, I have theskillset right.
I've had to learn how tocommunicate.
I know how to problem solve asan attorney, right, and
emotional intelligence is thekey to all of those things.
(02:03):
And so, since I know thatpeople are not willing to leave
those relationships, maybe,right, I can help them at least
make those relationshipshealthier.
Speaker 1 (02:11):
You can only affect, like, if you're like, let's say,
one of 10, which a lot ofpeople work for, bigger
companies than that, but ifyou're one of 10, you've got 10%
of the power to change in arelationship.
(02:32):
You've got 50%.
A lot of the responsibility andthe accountability is on you.
Throughout my career of couplescounseling, I highly believe
that even if you have a partnerthat's unwilling to change you,
looking inwards and changingyourself will have ripple
effects on the dynamic,absolutely, and I tell my
(02:53):
clients that all the timethey're like well, my partner
doesn't want to come.
Speaker 2 (02:56):
And I said that's okay, because I'm sure there are
things that you were doing,maybe that some you're aware of,
some you are not aware of.
That's contributing to the waythat things are.
And I said the other thing isright.
Most people don't wanna argueby themselves, and so if you
learn how to manage youremotions so that it's not a
screaming match, if you learnhow to communicate effectively
where there's no way for yourpartner to derail the
(03:18):
conversation, they might yellfor a little while, but after a
while they're going to realizethat they're yelling by
themselves.
Speaker 1 (03:23):
Yeah, they're going to fizzle out real quick.
I like the saying if you wantto really win a game of tug of
war, drop the rope.
Yes, and for a lot of couplesthat's such a mindset shift.
It's like oh yeah, I don't haveto defend, define, explain
myself, I can just let go.
And if he wants to or she wantsto have compassion and want me
(03:48):
to be happier in thisrelationship, she'll come to the
table, or he'll come to thetable when he's good and ready.
Speaker 2 (03:54):
Yeah, I tell people take the gloves off.
Speaker 1 (03:57):
Oh, I love that.
I love that.
Take the gloves off.
I say put the swords down,right, okay, I want to jump into
this.
So we are going to talk todayabout expressing your needs,
communicating your needs withoutfear or guilt, and I think this
is so important right now,especially because women's
(04:18):
equality is incredibly important.
Our voices are so important.
However, I do not think we areequal and I think there's so
much socialization that happensthat keeps us small and in a
place of fear and guilt andserving other people.
So let's rock into this.
Let's talk about why do youthink it's so hard for women to
(04:40):
communicate what they want andneed in relationships?
Speaker 2 (04:46):
Many women struggle to communicate their needs
because of a deep-seated fear,whether it is fear of being
dismissed, fear of their needsby not being met, or fear that
they will seem like they'reasking for too much.
I think in other cases, somepeople may not have the full
clarity on what they actuallyneed, and so if you don't know
(05:06):
what you need, it makes it a lotharder to articulate that to
your partner.
I think, additionally, societyplays a role in it.
Women and especially when youstart talking about Black women,
we often grow up expecting tobe strong, expecting to be
independent, expecting to beself-sufficient right?
(05:27):
Women.
We've been taught to prioritizetaking care of everybody else.
Right.
We're the nurturers, we're themothers.
We take care of everybody else,and sometimes that's at the
expense of our own emotionalneeds, right?
And so this creates a patternwhere they start to, or we start
to, suppress our needs ratherthan expressing them.
(05:47):
I think another challenge isthe communication skills.
Even if a woman knows what sheneeds, if she lacks the
confidence or the right tools toexpress her way in a way that
fosters express herself, in away that fosters understanding
right, she may default to eitherbeing silent or she's going to
(06:11):
be frustrated.
And so I would say, even ifthese things are currently
present, the good thing is thatemotional intelligence can help
bridge that gap right byproviding the self-awareness,
the self-regulation and then theeffective communication
strategies.
Speaker 1 (06:31):
Yeah, and I think too , the pendulum swing right, like
I think.
A lot of times women don't wantto be fearful and silent and
small, so they go too far theother way and they're like I'm
independent and strong and Idon't need nobody.
And it's like okay, whetheryou're coming from a minority
group or you're coming fromgenerational trauma.
Either way, either extreme isnot going to serve you.
(06:52):
So it's about finding how can Ibe strong and still connect
with my softness, myvulnerability, my femininity,
and not see it as a weakness?
Yep, right.
Speaker 2 (07:07):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (07:07):
That's a challenge, because I think a lot of us go
to those extremes of eitherbeing withdrawn small, or we're
too big, we're too aggressive,we're too sassy, and I know that
there's this whole wave of ownit, and if people call you a
bitch, then then you keep beingassertive and it's like wait a
second.
There's a big differencebetween being assertive and
being aggressive andunapproachable.
Speaker 2 (07:29):
Absolutely.
If you want to be an effectivecommunicator, you have to speak
in a way that whomever you'retalking to can receive it.
And so I smiled when you weretalking about the pendulum,
because that was me.
I told you I was extremely shygrowing up and then I got tired
of waiting for people to treatme the way that I should be
treated, and so I'm like okay,girl, you got to learn how to
(07:51):
speak up for yourself.
But, like you said, I went frombeing shy and not asserting
boundaries to the other end ofthe spectrum, right, because now
, at this point, I'm in lawschool, so now that come out.
I'm also from Philadelphia, sothen that came out, so I'm going
to say what I got to say, Idon't care who, right.
But then I had to also learnthat that also was not like
receptive, even if I did.
(08:11):
Even a lot of times I didn'teven mean it, right?
I thought I was just being moreassertive, I thought I was
being more confident, but Icould see people like they would
start to recoil as I would talkand I'm like I'm just.
And so I had to learn thatthere is a balance, right, and
it's not going to be effectiveunless I'm speaking in a way
that they can receive.
And now sometimes it is themright.
(08:32):
If you know that you are sayingeverything as respectfully as
you can right, you aren't being,your tone is appropriate, your
language is appropriate and theystill have a problem with it,
then at that point it's not true, it's a them thing, but you
have to learn that.
I had to learn that.
That's something that it tookme years to figure out.
That, okay, there is a balanceand it might change depending on
(08:54):
who I'm talking to.
Speaker 1 (08:55):
Well, and, I think, recognizing too if it's a them
problem.
If he ain't in diapers, youcan't change him and learning to
find that acceptance and learnto let go.
I think surrender is very hardfor women who come from
generational trauma.
Or you know, it doesn't matterwhether you come from trauma or
(09:17):
not If you come from a family.
Especially our generation isinteresting because a lot of us
have parents who were raised byparents who grew up in the
Depression.
Yes, so there's this mentalitystill of very much patriarchy
the man's responsible for goingout and being the breadwinner,
the woman's responsible fortaking care of the household.
(09:38):
The man has more of animportance or a value.
And I think now we're shiftingand we're saying wait a second,
we're just as important, we workjust as hard, we work harder.
Right, I was going to say, ifnot harder, we have a lot more
of the emotional burden, thecognitive burden, whatever.
But I think with thatadjustment we have to have more
(09:59):
skills learning to find thatbalance.
And I resonate with you becauseI experienced the same thing
where I came from, anenvironment where I was raised
in fear and when I became anadult I went too far into
aggressive, strong, boss, babekind of vibes.
And now it's about finding thatbalance of wait.
(10:20):
Connecting with people is aboutsoftness.
Speaker 2 (10:23):
Yes, yes it is, and I think, softness.
But the other thing is empathy,and I think that's one thing
that is missing a lot in thisworld, and it's not that you
have to agree with the otherperson, but taking the time to
step into that person's shoes,to see things from their
perspective, and not to projectyour own experience on them or
(10:44):
to take whatever limitedinformation you know about
somebody but then apply yourbackground to it.
Right?
That's something that's verydifficult to do.
Why would they do this or whatdid it?
They should?
You can't say what they shouldor should not do because you're
not them, right?
You're seeing what they shouldor should not do based on your
experience, based on your past,based on your upbringing, based
on your skillset.
They don't have that sameexperience, skillset and
(11:06):
background, right?
And so you have to take thetime to take a step back, put
yourself to the side, which isextremely difficult.
Most people operate from aself-centered approach, and not
necessarily mean selfish, butbecause that's the only
perspective they have, and soyou have to sometimes take a
step back and realize that ifthis person is not opening up to
(11:28):
you or they're notcommunicating in a way that you
would like figure out why.
What's their experience withcommunication?
Did they grow up knowing thatit was okay for them to
communicate and share how theyfeel?
So it's also about, yes, beingsoft, but also being empathetic
and understanding.
Speaker 1 (11:46):
I love that, and you said something earlier that I
thought was really interestingthat you have to know yourself
in order to express what youneed, and I think that's a
powerful message for most people, because I don't think a lot of
women take the time to reflectand say, well, not only just
what do I need, but why do Ineed that, and is that a
(12:07):
realistic request from mypartner, or can I get my needs
met elsewhere?
Do I need them to validate me,or do I need to start practicing
validating myself?
Speaker 2 (12:18):
Yes, that's a lot Self-reflecting and also
processing your emotions.
Those are very big things.
Processing emotions is one ofthe number one things that I
teach with clients and on socialmedia.
I don't want to get too farahead of our conversation, but,
yes, processing emotions isimportant if you're going to be
an effective communicator, whichis hard.
Speaker 1 (12:40):
Okay.
So what about the guilt factor?
Like, why do you think guilt issuch a?
I don't know if it's true formen, but it's certainly true for
women that guilt kind ofshadows a lot of this
conversation, I think.
Speaker 2 (12:54):
Yeah.
So I think it's because manywomen have internalized
internalized, yeah.
So I think women feel guiltyasking for what they need
because they've internalized theidea that they should be
self-reliant and not need help.
Especially, women are supposedto be strong.
(13:18):
This reinforces the belief thatthey should be able to handle
any and everything on their own,and this is what makes it
difficult to acknowledge when weneed support, and that will
lead to feelings of guilt oreven shame when they finally do
say, hey, I need help.
(13:39):
I think women are also thecaregivers, right?
And their families, theirrelationships, their children,
their parents, which is what I'mkind of going through at the
moment and so we're used topouring into other people and
probably not receiving as muchas we give.
So I tell people you can't pourfrom an empty cup, but women do
it all the time, and so I think, as a result, they may see
(14:02):
advocating for their needs asbeing selfish.
Right, I'm supposed to be herefor everybody else.
I don't have the time to alsoneed something myself, right?
Or I don't want to be a burdenon my partner or my children to
say, hey, I need help.
Burden on my partner or mychildren to say, hey, I need
help.
I think there is also a fear ofbeing labeled as needy or
(14:24):
nagging, so instead theysuppress their needs to try and
maintain this harmony right, andso I think the reality is that
needs are a normal part of beinghuman, that needs are a normal
part of being human.
Everybody has them, andexpressing them is not selfish
right.
It's actually essential forbuilding healthy and balanced
relationships.
Speaker 1 (14:45):
Oh, yes, well, and so many of us need to hear that,
like every day, probably in themorning.
It is normal part of being asocial being, a human being, to
have needs and wants and desires, and it's okay.
It's okay to have needs andwants.
Yes, relationships are supposedto be reciprocal.
Speaker 2 (15:06):
Yes, mutually beneficial yes, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (15:12):
And how many of us just I think the nature too of
being a caregiver to ourchildren kind of go against that
grain if that's what you'vebeen doing for so long,
(15:38):
especially if you were raised bysomeone who either did that
themselves or taught youdirectly like this is what
you're supposed to do.
Speaker 2 (15:46):
Yes, and sometimes I think it is not intentional.
I think because we are lookingafter so many people, right?
Like you said, our partners,our parents, our children, the
household, we're the managermaking sure everything runs,
when do we have the time tocheck in with ourself and say,
hey, you're tired, you'regetting burnt out?
Or even if you do, let's sayyou do take the time to say I'm
(16:09):
tired, I'm overwhelmed, I'mgetting burnt out.
Who is there to help you, right?
So I don't think that there'salways an intentional neglect on
our part.
I think sometimes it's just weget stuck in this rat race.
I don't have time to slow down,even consider myself.
And if I did and I doacknowledge what I need where am
I going to get it from?
Speaker 1 (16:28):
All right, let's talk a little bit about breaking
this cycle.
How can someone start to shiftthis mindset of doing for others
, giving to others, and shiftingthat into hey, I am worthy, I
have needs.
Speaker 2 (16:42):
Yep, so one of the biggest shifts that I did
personally.
So this is what I actually hadto do.
I had to tell myself myfeelings are valid.
I would literally repeat tomyself I have a right to feel
the way that I do.
Just that simple, I guess youcan call it an affirmation.
(17:02):
That simple affirmation helpedme to begin to acknowledge my
emotions instead of justdismissing them.
I think another turning pointfor me was when I was starting
to learn about emotionalintelligence and understanding
how the brain process emotions.
So our brains, every humanbrain, whether you're a man or a
woman, our brains are wired toprioritize emotions over logic,
(17:26):
and so that was a bigrealization for me, right?
Because as an attorney, I usedto pride myself on I'm logical
and I never wanted to be astereotypical emotional woman.
And so, as an attorney, I wastrained to focus on facts and
arguments, and I didn't want toseem like just that emotional
woman that just lacked logic.
(17:47):
But the truth is, emotionsaren't a bad thing.
They're not the enemy.
Emotions are information, andthey are there to tell you
something, and so the key isn'tto suppress them, it's to learn
how to manage them.
It's to understand what they'retrying to tell you right,
process them right and expressthem in a way that serves what
you need, right.
So I think shifting yourmindset.
(18:09):
It starts with self-awareness.
When you begin to recognizethat your emotions and needs are
valid, you give yourselfpermission to honor them,
instead of trying to suppressthem or dismiss them, or just
have them, sweep them under therug so that they go away quickly
.
Speaker 1 (18:25):
Yes, I often like that metaphor of signals or
lights on your dashboard in yourcar.
Yes, you know that if you keepignoring them, you're eventually
going to have a breakdown andthen you're going to have to
learn.
But it's a lot like learning.
Okay, what does that light mean?
And I have to kind of exploreand I have to address that, and
(18:47):
it might not go away right away.
I might have to drive 30 miles,right?
Speaker 2 (18:52):
It's a great metaphor , yeah, and even just ignoring
it doesn't make them go away.
I tell people all the time stopignoring your emotion.
They're trying to tell yousomething.
If you're sad, maybe they aretrying to tell you that a
boundary has been crossed or youhave some type of unmet needs.
Your emotions another metaphorI like they're your GPS signal.
They're trying to tell you turnhere, turn there.
(19:14):
If you just keep drivingstraight and they're telling you
need to get off this road, youwon't crash eventually.
Speaker 1 (19:21):
How many of us go and go, and go, and go and go and
never pay attention to that?
Like you said, you got a lawdegree, you liked law, but then
you started working in the fieldand you just say, oh, I got to
get it together, I got to moveforward.
I think some people end upstuck in careers like that for
decades and then it's like, ohgosh, it just feels so big to
(19:45):
say you know what?
I've been ignoring my GPS for areally, really long time and
I'm lost.
Yeah, careers relationships.
Speaker 2 (19:51):
You'd be surprised how many people I talked to so
when I first started thisbusiness.
I'm like well, why do besurprised how many people I
talked to so when I firststarted this business?
I'm like well, why do peoplestay?
And they know theserelationships are no longer
serving them?
Well, maybe they don't knowthat their relationship isn't
healthy?
No, I've learned people knowthat their relationships aren't
healthy, they know that theirmarriage is not healthy, but
they're still there.
Speaker 1 (20:10):
Have you ever read anything by Harville Hendricks?
I have not In the therapy world.
It's called Imago.
Okay, he's a psychologist.
You should read the bookGetting the Love you Want.
Okay, he talks about how wegravitate to familiar types of
love.
Yes, not because it's good forus, but because we have
(20:30):
unfinished business.
Okay, so a lot of us will stayin these really toxic, really
unhealthy partnerships or weleave that partner and we
attract somebody that's justlike them, exactly Right.
I used to joke I don't have Xs,I have Ys.
Why in the world would you keepdoing the same thing to
yourself?
But anyways, yeah, there's atherapeutic reason why, and it's
(20:54):
because we are attracted tofamiliar types of love until we
can grow and reclaim the partsof ourselves that we've lost.
Speaker 2 (21:03):
Yes, Usually in childhood yeah Right, and that
is so important.
And so a question that I getasked a lot is like why don't
you tell people what to do?
So if somebody was in anabusive relationship, you
wouldn't tell them to leave.
And I say no, unfortunately Iwouldn't.
And they're like, well, why?
I said somebody actually reachedout to me maybe like a month or
so ago on social media and sheshared that she's in an abusive
(21:25):
relationship and I asked her isshe ready to leave?
And she said no.
And so I was having anotherconversation and it came up and
they were like well, why didn'tyou tell her to leave?
I said because she's not ready.
And I said, even if once she'snot going to listen just because
I said leave.
But let's say even if she did,that means she hasn't learned
her lesson right.
She has to learn on her ownwhat part of her was attracted
(21:46):
to that and kept her there,because otherwise, if she leaves
prematurely without learningthat lesson, she's going to go
pick the same person again,learning that lesson, she's
going to go pick the same personagain.
Speaker 1 (22:02):
That is so true and I love that you recognize that
and you're sharing that message,because I think that's so
important.
I think too many couplescounselors, coaches, authors I
think too many of them are likejust leave, you deserve better.
And it's like wait a second.
A lot of this isn't even aboutthat person.
A lot of it's about you andwhat you can unlock.
You're in this.
Whether you're religious or not.
(22:24):
God doesn't send us more thanwe can handle.
Right, and that a lot of timeswe've other other sayings are
like there's a reason.
There's a reason.
A lot of us.
Speaker 2 (22:37):
And one of my.
I saw a post on I think it wasInstagram, and it said the pain
will leave once you learn thelesson.
Speaker 1 (22:46):
It's so true and you can't force it.
A lot of times it's aboutsurrender and acceptance, All
right.
Speaker 2 (22:52):
So we're talking about kind of having to fight
these patterns starting to feelworthy, starting to pay
attention to your feelings, whatare simple, doable, like.
(23:13):
First ask yourself why do Istruggle to speak up?
Is it because you don't knowhow to articulate what you're
feeling?
Are you afraid of how the otherperson will react?
Do you avoid conflict at allcosts?
Understanding the why behindyour silence is the first step
to breaking the pattern.
And so, once you identify yourblock, start small.
(23:35):
And so, once you identify yourblock, start small.
You don't have to jump off thedeep end and have extremely deep
emotional conversations rightaway.
Try practicing with somethingthat has lower stakes, right,
like, let's start with juststating your preference about
where you want to eat.
When he says, what do you wantto eat?
Have an answer Nice.
What do you want to eat?
Have an answer, nice.
What do you want to watch?
(23:56):
Tell him.
And so I think the more youpractice advocating for yourself
in small ways, the moreconfidence you'll build to
express your deeper needs.
But you got to understand why.
And then, even if it is, let'ssay, you lack the skills, right,
then it's a.
Well, are you taking time toprocess?
(24:16):
Are you afraid that?
How they're going to react?
Tell them what you need upfront, all right.
So there's different thingsthat you can do depending on the
why, but you have to understandwhy before you can overcome
anything what would you say topeople in terms of how they can
do that self-reflection?
yep.
So if they know that there issomething that is burning,
(24:38):
burning them up, and they don'tknow, should I say something?
Should I not Ask yourself whatare you afraid of?
What's the worst that canhappen?
So you have to understand why.
Why are you afraid?
Do you feel like you'reoverthinking?
And it's not that serious.
You don't know if it's seriousenough to speak up about and
it's not that serious.
You don't know if it's seriousenough to speak up about.
(24:58):
Has this person dismissed howyou have felt in the past?
Do you think that they're gonnascream, bite your head off or
something?
So you have to ask yourselfthat question why are you afraid
to speak up?
Speaker 1 (25:11):
Yeah, so it sounds like a lot of asking yourself
simple questions like what am Iwanting?
Why am I wanting it?
Why am I afraid to speak mytruth in any situation?
Okay, I love that.
Speaker 2 (25:19):
That's really helpful , I think.
Another question I would add tothat list is what would happen
if I don't speak up.
Speaker 1 (25:27):
Ooh nice.
What's going to happen if Icontinue to stay silent?
Yeah, I love that.
Okay, so what are some of thebiggest mistakes, then, that
women make when they're tryingto express themselves and
communicate their needs inrelationships?
Speaker 2 (26:02):
women think that they are expressing their needs, but
they're actually talking attheir partner rather than
engaging in the conversation.
Right?
This is what we were talkingabout earlier with the pendulum,
Like once you've gone to theextreme and you're talking at
you know, instead of having aproductive conversation.
I think another mistake isfocusing too much on their
partner's actions instead oftheir own feelings.
So you never prioritize me.
(26:22):
That is a lot different thansaying I feel unimportant when
our time keeps getting pushedaside.
So the first statement is goingto make somebody defensive,
while the second one invites asolution or another example.
You never help out around thehouse, as opposed to I feel
overwhelmed with how householdchores are allocated.
(26:44):
Can we talk about thedistribution of tasks in this
house?
And I think, finally, I think alot of women go into these
conversations without havingfully processed their own
emotions first, and so if youhaven't taken the time to
understand why you feel the wayyou do, the conversation can
(27:05):
become reactive and notproductive.
Speaker 1 (27:10):
I love that particular tip because I think
if you're coming in hot, you'renot going to.
It's funny to me because it'slike a lot of times we're just
living in that reactive brain,yes, and then later we're like
why would I approach him likethat?
I wasn't going to get him to belike sure, I'll start taking
the trash out more.
Speaker 2 (27:28):
Right, yes, right.
And so I tell people you cannotbe both emotional and logical
at the same time.
The brain does not allow it.
And so if you feel still soconsumed with your emotions,
right, if you're doing theyelling, the screaming, the
cussing, right, you're still inthat emotional portion of the
brain.
Right, you think with the frontpart of your brain, and so the
(27:50):
signal hasn't made it that far,and so you can't have a
productive conversation when youare still so consumed with your
emotions.
Speaker 1 (27:57):
Yes, yes, yes, yes or any kind of escalated yes, Walk
away, yes, all right.
So how do you deal withsomebody if a woman is now?
Hey, I'm advocating for myself,I'm asking in these little ways
, I'm practicing, communicatingmy needs in an approachable way,
but I'm being more assertivewhat happens or what would you
(28:21):
say to someone if then theirpartner or their boss or their
mother or whoever, comes back inan invalidating way or
dismissive way?
Speaker 2 (28:31):
So I will say this first.
I think sometimes peopledismiss needs unintentionally.
I don't think it's always onpurpose, so I'll use me for an
example.
I used to jump straight intoproblem solving mode when
somebody would tell me abouttheir problems, but I thought I
was being helpful.
Right, you tell me a problem?
Okay, what are we going to doabout it?
(28:52):
Did you think about this?
Did you think about that?
It wasn't until a guy I wasdating.
He told me that he feltdismissed, he didn't want
solutions at that moment.
He wanted to feel heard, and sothat experience made me realize
that sometimes people just needto be validated first, and so I
think a great way to handlethis is to set expectations
before you start talking.
(29:13):
Say, I don't need advice rightnow, I just need to vent, or I
need a sounding board to help meprocess my emotions.
So if you give that clarityupfront, that can prevent
miscommunication and it makes itmore likely that your needs can
be met.
Now, if somebody constantlyinvalidates your feelings, even
(29:35):
after you bring it to theirattention, that's a red flag,
right?
Long-term, you should assesswhether or not this person is
emotionally safe for you, right?
So I think, once you are nolonger in that specific
conversation.
I tell people have aconversation about how you
communicate.
Hey, when you do this, I feeldismissed, right?
(29:57):
I had this conversation with mymom that something happened.
She's like, oh, you can do it.
I personally don't like that.
Don't tell me I can do it.
It's not a question aboutwhether or not I can do it.
I'm saying I'm overwhelmed atthe moment.
Validate that I feeloverwhelmed.
Don't just tell me I can do it,because it doesn't matter.
If you're overwhelmed, you cando it.
(30:21):
My mom's classic one is isyou'll get through it?
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (30:22):
you can just face.
You're so strong and right.
I don't want to hear that.
Speaker 2 (30:25):
I want to hear all normal at all, right and so and
I tell people right, that'sanother example of this not
being on purpose, um, but it's areal thing, and so I think you
just have to sometimes have aconversation like, hey, when you
say this, it makes me feel Iknow you mean it for good.
However, the impact is that Ifeel dismissed, like you did not
(30:48):
validate that I'm struggling atthe moment, or that I feel
overwhelmed or I feel frustrated, whatever it is that you shared
, and so just the you have to bethe timing matters with
encouragement when you haveconversations, any of it.
Speaker 1 (31:03):
Well, and I think, to kind of riff off of what you're
saying, that these previousgenerations they weren't talking
about emotional intelligence,they didn't have the internet,
they didn't have reels, andtherapy was like very, very
young, and it's infancy coachingwasn't even a thing.
Right, was like very, veryyoung.
In its infancy Coaching wasn'teven a thing.
So you're talking about almostlike an awakening of the human
(31:28):
population, of being in tunewith our emotions, learning how
to speak to other people.
Did it exist?
Yeah, but it wasn't as readilyavailable.
So I remember saying to my dadonce I finally just snapped and
was like you are so invalidatingand he's like I don't even know
what the fuck that means.
Speaker 2 (31:51):
Yeah, that's real.
It's like when I told my mom,like don't say I can do like
it's dismissive.
The next day she was like weneed to talk.
You hurt my feelings.
How did I hurt your feelings?
Because me telling her that youcan do it was dismissive.
What did she say to her?
It made her feel like I don'tbelieve what she says.
(32:12):
And I said in my brain I'mthinking like how did this even
become about you?
Like I'm just explaining thatit doesn't have the impact that
you thought it did, like itdoesn't at all.
Speaker 1 (32:26):
This is how it's affecting me.
Yes, but it hurt her feelingsand I had to give her.
Speaker 2 (32:30):
Another example, like because I know that she
dislikes when people tell her.
Like because my dad is sick andso she always hates when people
say like God will never giveyou more than you can, than you
can bear.
I said so when people say thatto you.
Will never give you more thanyou can bear, I said so.
When people say that to you,does it make you feel better
about daddy being sick?
And she's like no, I hate it.
Ding ding, ding.
I'm saying it's the same thing.
Yes, I understand that you meanit for good.
(32:52):
So do they.
When they tell you.
I said but it's not impactversus intent.
Well, and I think two importantthings right.
Speaker 1 (33:01):
One is you have to know who's safe and who's not.
So if you continuously go toyour mom when you know that your
mom cannot emotionally validateyou, you're going to a hardware
store for bread and you'rebeing upset that you're starving
.
Speaker 2 (33:15):
Yes, that's a very good one.
Speaker 1 (33:20):
Like don't go to a hardware store for bread.
So that's like realizing whenpeople cannot give you what
you're wanting.
And two, I think making sureyou're utilizing language or to
request something that they canactually give you.
That's approachable.
So, instead of telling my momthat she's invalidating, I've
(33:47):
been practicing, on being like,hey, I just need you to say, wow
, you're overwhelmed and so, andshe's really been trying.
So I think when we give peoplethe roadmaps to success, I think
people want to succeed in theirrelationships with us.
Right, absolutely so.
When we give them and you know,husbands in particular yeah,
hey, this is what I'm wanting,they want to succeed, they want
to please you.
Speaker 2 (34:07):
That that is so true.
So I remember when I was alawyer, like the guy I was
dating at the time, when I wouldgo like to tell him about work
and like everything that wasgoing on, he would jump straight
into solution mode and I'm likethat's not helpful.
And so he did ask me, like hewas at least aware enough to
well, what is it that you need?
And I told him what I need.
All I need you to say is likewow, that's crazy.
(34:29):
And he, literally after thatday he would just write back
like wow, that's crazy, that'sall I needed.
It was a little bit humorous,but no, really it helped my
husband.
Speaker 1 (34:42):
I'm always like I hate it when I say something to
him and he just won't.
He just doesn't, he's justquiet and I'm like you could
grunt that's like all you got todo is go uh-huh, right, oh, and
now that's a joke between us,because I'll be speaking and
he's like huh huh, whateverRight, but I, because I'll be
speaking and he's like huh, huh,whatever Right, but I
(35:03):
appreciate the effort.
I do too.
A for effort, yes, okay.
So how can women spot whenthey're in a dynamic that really
discourages them fromexpressing their needs?
Kind of like a hardware store.
How do you recognize whenyou're in one of those
relationships that I don't knowif you're going to get what you
need?
Speaker 2 (35:22):
I think you have to pay attention to how your
partner engages with you.
Do they genuinely ask howyou're doing when you share?
Do they listen?
Do they ask follow-up questions?
Do they show interest?
I think another sign is howthey react when you express your
vulnerability.
Do they shut down theconversation?
Do they get defensive?
(35:49):
Do they change the subject?
If your needs are constantlydismissed or minimized, you may
be in a dynamic where your voiceisn't being valued, and so I
think a simple test that you cando share something small about
your day and see how theyrespond.
If they don't engage or theyalways turn a conversation back
to them, that's a sign that yourneeds may not be a priority in
this relationship.
Speaker 1 (36:08):
Wow, that's good.
That's really good.
Okay, all right.
And what?
All right?
So we've talked about a lottoday.
I love everything that you'resharing and helping women with.
I love everything that you'resharing and helping women with.
What is one practical piece ofadvice for women today that they
can start to get morecomfortable with this idea of
(36:30):
advocating for themselves?
Speaker 2 (36:32):
Yes, and so the one piece of advice is going to be
is kind of layered.
I know you only said one, butit's going to be layered.
You're going to hit me withmultiple, okay, great.
So before you have anyconversation, you have's going
to be layered.
It hit me with multiple, okay,great.
So before you have anyconversation, you have to
process your emotions first.
Yeah, right.
And so you asked me earlier howdo you do this?
So there's a few questions thatI do this day to myself.
(36:54):
I do this for myself to thisday, right?
So these are the questionsyou're going to ask what emotion
am I experiencing?
Right, and I use, when I'mworking with people, I have them
pull out the wheel of emotionso that they can actually
identify what it is, so we cango beyond the eight primary
emotions.
Right, there's primary and thenthere are secondary emotions.
So what emotion am Iexperiencing?
(37:16):
For you understand whattriggered this emotion?
Like, is it something thatsomebody says somebody did?
Like when did you first noticethat your energy changed?
All right, so is this a fact?
Or is it a fact or feeling?
Right?
So there's a difference betweenhaving emotions and feelings.
(37:36):
So feelings are how youinterpret what happened versus
your emotions that you feelabout the situation.
So is this a fact or a feeling?
Love that, once you come up withthat, I tell people to figure
out.
Is this a me, them or usproblem?
Is this something that I needto work on?
Is this something that theyneed to work on?
Is this something that we bothneed to work on?
(37:58):
Right, because sometimes it isa me problem.
If it's a me problem, Iprobably I'm not saying anything
.
Yeah, I realize that'ssomething that I need to do,
right, something I'm probablysensitive about because of my
past experience.
Right, so, me, them or usproblem.
And then, what is it thatyou're hoping to get out of this
conversation?
Speaker 1 (38:17):
I love that Like coming in with a very clear
intent.
Speaker 2 (38:20):
Very clear, right, and so, and I will even give you
, like this magic sentence thatI give to all of my clients.
So, when you go into aconversation with the level of
clarity, you're less likely tooverthink Should I say something
, should I not?
Is this a fact?
Is this a feeling?
Right, you won't be.
You won't get defensive ormanipulated.
(38:41):
Right, when you have a goodunderstanding of how you're
feeling, nobody can turn thataround on you.
Yes, right, you also are goingto avoid unnecessary arguments,
because if you use the sentenceI gave you, there is no way, no
logical way, for your person orwhomever you're talking to to
derail the conversation or forit to escalate.
(39:02):
And so, once you process youremotions, this is the magic
sentence I like to use.
I felt the emotion when you didthe specific action moving
forward, can we?
What's the solution?
I love that, all right.
So let's say you feeloverwhelmed because of how you
(39:23):
do much more in the house withthe kids and the household,
right, so I felt overwhelmed onSaturday when you went to go
play basketball and left me homewith the kids and the house was
a mess.
Right, moving forward.
Can you help me straighten upbefore you go play basketball?
Speaker 1 (39:40):
Oh, I love that.
It's so clear.
It's really doable.
I think that's where a lot ofpeople go wrong is can you start
to prioritize my needs more,right?
It's like no, no, no, don't askfor that.
Ask for something tangible.
Speaker 2 (39:53):
Like hey, for 20 minutes before you go play
basketball, help me pick upsomething before you leave out
the house, like, just help me doat least one thing, right, but
be specific, like and you'retelling them exactly what you
need.
I had a console last week andher and her fiance have kind of
separated at the moment and Isaid well, have you ever had a
conversation about these thingswith him that you're telling me?
(40:14):
And she said yes, and he saidhe'll work with him.
He doesn't know how work withhim.
He doesn't know how.
Did you tell him how?
And she said no.
I said well, if you can't tellhim how, how was he supposed to
know?
how do you get the famousresponse well, he should know,
he should know, he should know,and it's like, well, you don't
even know, I said, but you don'teven know, so how can he and it
(40:37):
, and it was something like veryspecific to her, like very
specific Okay how is he supposedto know what you need to?
How I said?
So I think you have to do somemore self-reflecting about what
exactly it is that you need.
Okay, you know you feel thisway, whether it's overwhelmed or
frustrated.
(40:57):
What do you need so that youdon't feel frustrated?
Because it's going to bedifferent from person to person.
Right, I can say I feeloverwhelmed and let's say he
goes and washes the dishes, butwhat if I really need the help
with putting the kids to bed atnight?
Oh my gosh, I resonate withthat.
Speaker 1 (41:11):
So hard because my husband's like but wait, I did X
, y, z and I'm like I didn'tneed you to do that.
I needed you to do this, likethe garage can wait.
Yes, the garage can wait.
I need the crap in from the car, which is what I use every day.
Yeah, I think that's you know.
One of my favoriteinterventions working with
couples is giving them each apiece of paper and saying write
(41:34):
down small, medium and big waysthat your partner could help you
feel better more loved, moreconnected whatever, and then rip
that piece of paper off andgive it to the other person
Because it's that roadmap right.
It's give my partner specificthings they could do to succeed
with me.
Speaker 2 (42:00):
Yes, yes, I love that and I love that really with my
single ladies, that we'reputting them in a better
position for dating, give themthe romance.
And, like so many people,they're like no, I don't want to
.
He got to pull teeth, he got tofigure it out.
And I'm like why do you want towaste your time?
If you want flowers, tell them,I like flowers.
If you want to have fun, don'tgo out to dinner for the first
day.
Go have fun.
Like to see if you can have funwith this person.
(42:21):
Like life is short.
You need to get the informationyou need as quickly as possible
.
Like help them out, tell themdon't wait for him to have to
pull teeth.
And I'm like who wants to dothat?
Tell them exactly what you need, and if you don't know what you
need, then that's where youneed to start.
But once you do, tell them yeah, I like this, I don't like that
.
Speaker 1 (42:38):
I think it's totally self-sabotage waiting for people
to like figure you out.
Speaker 2 (42:43):
Yes, absolutely, absolutely, really.
Speaker 1 (42:48):
And that's a wrap.
My friends, how good was that.
Erin seriously brought the heatand the truth bombs.
It was a lot of fun.
You could tell that we areprobably going to be good
friends because we really get on.
You can find Erin on TikTok,erin Darden.
She is dropping relationshipgold on the daily.
(43:09):
I follow her now and I thinkyou should too.
And while you're over there,come say hi to me too.
Let's be friends.
I swear I'm really fun on theinternet and don't just listen
and bounce.
I want to hear from you whatcame up for you during this
episode.
Where are you struggling toidentify and express your needs?
Truly, slide into my DMs onTikTok and let's talk about it.
Thanks for hanging out with metoday.
(43:30):
I'll catch you next time on,not your Therapist.
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