Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
I have been a naughty
, naughty podcaster.
I've started gettinginconsistent.
I skipped like two weeks.
I am sorry, party people.
Let me tell you a little bitabout what I've been up to,
because it's pretty exciting,and then we'll jump right into
today's topic, which isemotional incest.
I know y'all want to hear aboutit because it's so fascinating
(00:22):
and it's a gross term, but Ithink that it happens a lot,
like especially millennials.
I'm seeing that when I'm doingtherapy with clients and also
what I'm hearing in thegrapevine and what I'm seeing on
social media.
Like I think a lot of emotionalincest has happened and is
(00:43):
happening with our parents andnobody's talking about emotional
incest and kind of clarifying.
Everybody's talking aboutboundaries, but boundaries is
the solution and the strategy tofix it, but maybe not everyone
understands the problem.
Anyways, okay, why I've beennaughty?
So I started seeing clientsagain.
(01:03):
You guys, it's so exciting.
Very, very small caseload.
I went and started doing EMDRtraining.
So that's pretty rad because Ithink EMDR is the bomb.
It's really intense learning,like getting trained in it.
It's expensive and intense, butI think it's for good reason,
like I think that they only wantserious people.
(01:27):
Anyways, I'll do a wholeepisode about EMDR how about
that?
But in the meantime I am seeinga small caseload and I'm pretty
confident that most of them, ifnot all of them, have
experienced emotional incest.
So I thought this would behelpful.
I also started shopping aroundfor my own therapist because
(01:50):
I've done therapy a bazilliontimes but I was thinking that it
would be cool to do anothercourse of EMDR therapy to work
through my own childhood trauma.
So I've been shopping around.
I've seen maybe four differentconsultations with EMDR
certified therapists.
We'll get more into that in anEMDR episode.
(02:12):
But I finally met with one.
That just got me very quicklyand I was comfortable and it was
professional.
It was one-sided, honestly.
One girl I had a consult with.
After one hour with her I knewthat she was divorced.
She had two kids.
I knew their ages.
I knew way too much about her.
The personal disclosure feltincredibly intrusive, like I
(02:36):
don't need to know that stuff.
This is about me.
I feel another episode ofterrible therapy experiences
coming on because they're fun,they're funny, they're
depressing a little bit forthose of us who are in the field
.
But okay, I digress, let's hopinto this.
This episode is about emotionalincest.
(02:58):
So this is a different form ofabuse.
It's not sexual, it's notphysical, it's emotional.
So let's talk about what it is,how it impacts you and how you
can recover.
Hey there, and welcome to Notyour Therapist the no BS podcast
, where I ditch the therapycouch and get real about life,
(03:20):
love, work and all the messyin-betweens.
I'm Kayla Riley, a licensedtherapist and founder of a group
practice that now runs withoutme, giving me freedom to spend
more time with my littles and toshare the secrets of wellness
I've learned with people likeyou.
This isn't therapy.
It's your go-to for real talk,practical tips and the
(03:43):
occasional truth bomb to helpyou thrive.
And the best part no diagnosis,no insurance company
constraints.
I get to take off the whitegloves and tell it like it is,
because I'm not your therapist.
If you're ready to break freefrom unhealthy patterns,
navigate the messiness of lifewith more ease and uncover the
(04:03):
magic in your everyday moments,you're in the right place.
Welcome to your healing era.
Friends, let's do this.
If you've ever felt like yourparent treats you or has treated
you like their therapist, theirpartner, their emotional crutch
(04:27):
, that is not closeness.
That might be emotional incest,and you are not alone.
So emotional incest is just aform of covert boundary
violation where a parent turnsto a child to meet an emotional
need typically reserved foradult relationships.
And it's interesting becausethis actually ends up happening
(04:50):
way into adulthood.
Like parents who violate yourboundaries in that subtle,
covert way like this probably doit your entire life.
So if you were the therapistslash husband to your mother
when you were growing up, Iguarantee that your mother still
tries to invite you into thatrole today and it is not serving
(05:14):
you.
You are still their child.
You are not the parent.
You are not the parent and youknow I think a lot of people
don't recognize they're doing itLike I don't think any parent
wakes up and says I'm going toof people don't recognize
they're doing it Like I don'tthink any parent wakes up and
says I'm going to emotionallyburden my children and put them
into a role that they are notmature enough or you know,
nobody recognizes that.
(05:35):
So emotional incest is aterrible term because
automatically when you thinkincest, you think you know a
family member sexually doingsomething with another family
member, but this is not sexual.
So this is when a child is madeto feel responsible for a
(05:57):
parent's emotional regulation.
You feel responsible to betheir companion, you feel
responsible to give themself-worth.
So it all.
It really often looks like aparentified child dynamic, right
?
So especially when in familieswhere one parent is either
absent, addicted, emotionallyimmature or struggling with some
(06:22):
kind of mental health issue oraddiction, whatever, usually
those are the kinds of familiesthat I see this in the most
often.
If you were raised that way,your parent might have been kind
of triangulating you into theparent subsystem, so in you know
(06:44):
, structural family therapy it'sjust a theory, y'all.
There's a theory calledstructural family therapy.
It is done by Mnuchin, who isthis old white man I actually
thought he was fantastic, butanyways, he does a lot of
boundaries understanding, and soif you understand the family as
a system, it's a unit, right?
(07:05):
First you have the spousalsubsystem Mom, dad, dad, dad,
mom, mom, whatever Two peoplewho love each other, maybe, or
were attracted to each otherbecause of their trauma, who
knows.
So you have the parentalsubsystem and around that
imagine a boundary like a line.
(07:25):
And then you have children, orthey have children maybe, and so
when they have children, theyshould be in the sibling
subsystem, right?
Even if you're an only child.
There should be certain thingsthat you do not talk to your
children about period, your sexlife, your emotional well-being,
(07:45):
like, yes, it's okay to expressthat you have feelings as a
parent.
No, it is not okay to talkabout your conflict with your
husband, with your child.
Does that make sense?
I think you're probably pickingup what I'm putting down.
Think you're probably pickingup what I'm putting down.
(08:07):
Here are some other examples.
Maybe a parent over sharesdetails about their sex life or
their romantic problems, right,and say things like you're the
only one I can talk to, you'rethe only one mature one in the
family, her.
When in the family, commentslike that are incest comments,
they just are.
(08:27):
So a child maybe becomes theman of the house or mom's best
friend at a very young age.
That is unhealthy, it's sick,right, and the parent is.
We call it covert abuse becausethe parent doesn't know and
it's very subtle.
So it might be framed as likedaddy's gone, so you're the man
of the house now and it's likethere are good intentions behind
(08:51):
that.
But what that does to a youngman is devastating.
Or a child like hearing oh well, you know, daddy's not around,
so you're mommy's best friend.
That's sick.
You're not supposed to be mom'sbest friend.
You're supposed to be mom's kid, okay.
So another example would be aparent gets jealous of the
(09:12):
child's partner and tries tosabotage their independence.
So this is like apossessiveness right, where the
parent wants to have a closerelationship and anything they
see that threatens thatcloseness, they start getting
possessive, like a dog beingpossessive of a human.
(09:32):
It's the same kind of thing.
So here's another exampleYou're my rock.
I don't know what I would dowithout you.
Sounds really loving, but itactually creates psychological
pressure and entanglement orenmeshment.
It's not good for you.
All right.
So how it impacts you as anadult.
(09:53):
If you were raised like this asa child, you may struggle with
setting boundaries inrelationships, especially saying
no when another person isexpressing their needs.
You might feel like you confuseguilt, like you feel guilty
when you pull away from toxicdynamics, right, like if you set
(10:15):
a boundary or you cut somebodyoff or you take some distance
and you're not speaking tosomebody.
You might feel guilt doing that.
You may also have a tendency topeople please or rescue or
over-function in yourrelationships.
I had a client once that feltso much resentment because she
was always giving really good,thoughtful gifts to her family
(10:37):
members and she never gotanything in return.
That is an example ofover-functioning.
Another way that this mightimpact you as an adult is a deep
fear of abandonment or feelinglike you're too much for other
people.
Another way is shame or feelingguilty or bad about needing
(11:00):
space or prioritizing your ownself-care.
And the other one is likeseeing emotional enmeshment as
closeness, because it's not.
Emotional enmeshment andintimacy and closeness are very
different things.
So this is so incredibly hardto recognize, though, because it
feels like love is soincredibly hard to recognize
(11:23):
though, because it feels likelove.
Often the parent is superaffectionate and supportive and
seemingly like nicer or closerto the child than others, right.
So if you're a child and you'rereceiving this kind of quote,
unquote, love, right, and you'reseeing this parent as like
affectionate and they love you,then it's really hard to see
this as abuse.
Also, culturally we reallynormalize that like mama's boy
(11:46):
or daddy's little girl tropes ormy mom's, my best friend, like,
I think.
As a culture we reallynormalize that when it really is
psychologically unhealthy.
Also, a lack of physical abusecan make survivors question
their right to feel hurt or tofeel abused.
So the most common thing I see,when I'm assessing people is
(12:10):
when people I'm like how wasyour childhood?
And people are like I had agreat childhood.
My parents were loving, my dadworked a lot but my mom was so
loving, and it's like, okay, andyou scratch a little deeper.
And you scratch a little deeperand you really help people
understand these dynamics andall of a sudden their eyes open
and they're like whoa, you'reright.
I mean, obviously sometimesit's a little bit more blatant,
(12:34):
a little bit more obvious andpeople have already done some
self-reflective work, but a lotof times this is a really covert
, subtle kind of abuse.
Now let's talk about how tobreak this pattern.
So first and foremost, you needto recognize that it is not
your job to emotionally caretakeyour parent.
(12:57):
Easier said than done.
But first comes that awarenessright, it is not your job to
emotionally caretake your parent.
Then you can kind of move intopracticing boundaries.
So emotionally, physically,logistically, I mean, we need to
(13:18):
have just a whole boundarysetting episode, don't we?
Maybe that'll be next week, whoknows.
Stay tuned, all right, thethird thing you need to do and I
think this is the step thatmost people skip is allowing
yourself to grieve the loss ofthe parent that you deserved
(13:39):
versus the one that you got orthe one that you have.
Right, you have to grieve thatloss.
It is okay and healthy for youto grieve that.
I had a therapist once apersonal therapist that told me
I was talking about grieving thefamily that I wish I had when I
(14:00):
had a baby and the way thehospital experience looked and
who showed up for me.
And she I know what she wastrying to do.
She was trying to, like,confront a thought distortion,
but it wasn't a thoughtdistortion, it was a feeling.
So she was trying to tell methat that was unhealthy
expectations that a family wouldbe loving and show up when a
baby was born, that familieslooked all different ways, which
(14:22):
is legitimate.
However, the grief is stillreal.
So you got to find that balanceright Of knowing like, hey,
this is the family that I have.
I know I wanted a family tolook like this or I deserved a
family that looks like this, butalso this is the family I have.
There's a lot of grief there andyou have to allow that and give
(14:44):
yourself space to feel that andhonor it, validate it right.
So a therapist or coach andexploring these relational
dynamics and the relationaltrauma that you've experienced
really will also help you buildsafe adult connections.
So, lastly, create a space toredefine what love, closeness
(15:10):
and respect looks like in ahealthy adult relationship.
Clarify that, maybe with atherapist or a best friend, kind
of redefine for yourself whatdoes closeness look like, what
does respect look like, what islove right According to your
adult lens?
So those are my steps forbreaking that pattern
(15:30):
Recognizing like being aware,practicing boundaries, grieving
the loss because there is asignificant loss, maybe getting
into some therapy for yourselfor some coaching whichever kind
of floats your boat.
I would recommend therapy withparticularly like an internal
family systems, ifs or EMDRtrained therapist truly Okay,
(15:58):
I'll talk about what thosethings are in a different
episode and then creating aspace for yourself to redefine
what love, closeness and respectlook like to you.
Just remember that you're notalone, you're not broken.
You can absolutely heal fromthe effects of this kind of
abuse and any kind of abuse.
Healing is possible and we livein this beautiful time and age
(16:23):
where therapy is more normalized.
Therapists are being trained inthese awesome evidence-based
treatments that are supereffective.
You can you can heal from this.
You can create a different lifeand you can break this cycle.
I believe in you.
I'm so glad to be here with youagain, and I'll catch you on
the next one.
(16:43):
Okay, bye.