Paul Robeson’s Legacy and Modern Inspirations

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Greetings everyone.
Welcome to another episode ofNuance Conversation, and we have
special, special, specialguests in the studio today.
Nuance Conversation is a safespace to have intelligent, open
and honest conversation.
Here we talk anything frompolitics to religion, to social
norms and pop culture.

(00:21):
Certainly today we have theexpertise in all of those and so
much more.
He is known all across theworld literally for his one man
stage.
So of the late great civilrights hero and just hero in
general, paul Robeson, we'lllearn a little bit more about
that.
We'll learn about him on thattoday, but before we start we

(00:44):
just do a little fun thing here.
Dear Brother Stokey, we swearyou in.
His name is Stokey Kingata, forthose that are listening.
We'll get you, you'll get intoknowing more about him.
We just swear you in right hand.
Do you swear?
To be honest, to be open andtransparent and nuanced
conversation.

Speaker 2 (01:00):
Absolutely.
He's sworn in.

Speaker 1 (01:01):
ladies and gentlemen, Thank you so much for doing
that.
Appreciate you so much.
How are you feeling?

Speaker 2 (01:06):
I'll be fine.
Hopefully I won't be canceledin an hour.
No sir, no sir.

Speaker 1 (01:10):
We are no counsel zone.
This is the ideal nuancedconversations where life is not
black and white.
Life is in the gray most of thetime.
Certainly, there are thingsthat are black and white and we
acknowledge those things.
But even getting to thosethings, it's often a journey,
it's often a process, and so wecreated this space to be able to

(01:31):
talk to people about thosethings in certain areas, and no
better mind, no better personthan to have you here and talk
about that Tell us a little bitabout where you're from and your
upbringing.

Speaker 2 (01:46):
I was born in Kingston, jamaica.
Wow, god's country, yeah, thethird world nation, jamaica.
I love it to death.
At around eight and a halfyears old I came to the United
States.
My grandmother brought me,after my parents moved to
America, to New York, to gethousing and get situated and

(02:07):
have one, two more children, andthey were all girls.
My mother had six girls and me,and so my grandmother brought
us up and we came to big giantNew York City.

Speaker 1 (02:19):
Talk to me about the mind of an immigrant coming from
somewhere like Kingston,jamaica, and then migrating to
New York, where seemingly itseems like there's a lot of
crisis, a lot of issues, but themind of an immigrant looks at
even things that we look at asperplexities, as a land full of

(02:39):
opportunity.
Was that the same for you, evenat that tender age?

Speaker 2 (02:43):
Oh, absolutely, and your parents, everybody tells
you about it.
Once you get to America, lifewill be better.
Because, you know, as a boy Iwas told and I often heard we
were third world countries andAmerica was clearly the first
world.
America and Europe and you knowwhere white people lived was
the first world.
And it perplexed me because Ithought, after one comes two,

(03:07):
and we're a Third World nation.
Who's the Second World nation?
The Second wasn't taken andthey still wouldn't give it to
us.
But America was the land ofopportunity for Third World
nations because they had so muchof everything and they laid the
foundation Between the UnitedKingdom and the Royal Air Force

(03:31):
and Navy.
They colonized the globeliterally.
And so, coming here, you saw somuch more in the whole thing
and we saw a place whereeverybody—things could get
better.
It was bigger, it was brighterand darker.
It was bigger.
It was, you know, brighter anddarker.
It was the best of everythingand the worst of everything as
well.
So you just had to keep yoursoul intact, you know, and like

(03:53):
the great Nina Simone said, youknow, you know, we are young,
gifted and black.
With our souls intact, yeah,yeah.

Speaker 1 (04:01):
Talk about.
You mentioned colonization as aterm that's being used in
mainstream media today and a lotof activists are using that
terminology as well.
When you speak about that forthe Brits and literally
colonizing the world, can youexplain a little bit to our
listeners what that means?

Speaker 2 (04:20):
is basically the theft of land and culture.
And basically I performed in2019 in Ghana, west Africa,
ghana is known was called theGold Coast because literally you
could find gold on the groundas the beaches washed up the

(04:41):
whole thing.
So you had a rush there.
When you go to the slavecastles and different places and
you saw the historic placesthere—I was shooting a movie
there and I was there for 28days and all over Nacra and you
know the Tor Kumasi, you knowand you would see it places.

(05:06):
I'm saying why were the cannonspointed outwards?
It was to keep the othernations England to keep them
from coming to try to steal thegold, african gold.
And so colonization has a badtaste for us because they stole
our land and our resources andbasically destroyed a culture.

(05:27):
You know, and when I teach as aPan-African teaching artist,
which is what I've been doingfor the last 25 years, along
with the show, you know, becauseI use theater as a vehicle to
uplift society and hopefullyimprove, you know society's
change.
You know, with the frame of mind, because you can't change
hearts until you change minds.
And so colonization is badbecause it robs you of your

(05:51):
dignity and not only your land,but it leaves nothing in return.
And so, as a result, goingacross the globe, wherever
you've seen, there's a reasonwhy English is the second
language in every nation becausebetween France and the United
Kingdom and America, we'vecolonized everything.
You know the reason why there'sa British West Indies, you know

(06:14):
, and all of these places, youknow that are still just getting
independence, and so that's it,so it has to be, you know,
which is quite similar to whatis happening right now in
Palestine, which is a degree ofthings that, as you look into it
, you know, it has dangerousconnotations, because there's a

(06:48):
way to find an equitable way totreat human beings, as you know,
some fairness in humanity.

Speaker 1 (06:55):
Yeah, thanks for sharing that.
When you talk aboutPan-Africanism, what does that
mean to be a Pan-Africanist?

Speaker 2 (07:02):
Pan-Africanism, which is a very good question
actually, because a lot ofpeople hear the term and never
take the time to ask.
And in teaching the course, Iwould always ask do you know
what that means?
They say no, but I heard itbefore.
but go ahead and I'm going likeno, I explained to the students
I would say listen those whoknow how will always have a job,
but those who know why willalways be their boss.

(07:26):
And so Pan-African is a globalintellectual movement to uplift,
inspire and educate us aboutour African culture and our
desire, because we've had asimilar journey and somewhat
degree of similar destiny,journey and somewhat degree of
similar destiny.
And, unlike other nations,people say, well, african people

(07:49):
they're not together as a raceof people, they're not.
And I'm going like nothingcould be further from the truth.
You can't say that unless youlook at the fact that, if I say
Chinese are primarily onereligion, for the most part,
italians are primarily Catholic,okay, europeans primarily
Catholic.
Okay, europeans, eitherCatholic or Jews, you know
Judeo-Christian society.

(08:09):
Africans touch every nationalityand every culture because we've
been scattered all over theglobe, and that's what diaspora
means a scattered population.
So Pan-Africanism is to jointhat, to try to unify Africa, to
say that you know that in thebeginning there was darkness and
this darkness took place on thedark continent and that was

(08:32):
Africa.
That was what we later come toknow and I believe Mesopotamia
or you'd probably know betterthan myself, but the Garden of
Eden was near where Ethiopiacurrently is.
Right now, the Tigris,euphrates, gion River and the
Nile intersect, and so this darkcontinent with all the riches

(08:54):
in the world and the richestcontinent on the planet.
Okay, and when God said letthere be light, he called light
out of darkness.
We are the light that is comingout of that dark continent, and
until you can undo all that hasbeen done to the African
globally, the Pan-Africanmovement aims to do just that to
uplift, inspire, educate andbring together and teach us not

(09:17):
only to love others but, mostimportantly, to love ourselves.

Speaker 1 (09:22):
Wow, thank you for sharing that.
You're absolutely right.
That's a term that's often used, like many terms, but rarely
truly understood.
So you're growing up.
You've migrated from Kingston.
How was it growing up in NewYork City?
What was roughly the time frame?
What was your integration likeinto this new culture, new

(09:42):
society, even as a young man?

Speaker 2 (09:46):
It was beautiful.
It was a beautiful disaster.
It was a chapter in my book.
It was a beautiful disasterBecause you learn to love folks.
You know you're surrounded by alot of other.
You don't know you're poorbecause everybody else is poor,
and you learn to love each otherreally, really quickly.
And there are a lot of otherimmigrants here from Puerto Rico

(10:07):
, panama, cuba, you know,trinidad, barbados, everywhere
else you know, and just AfricanAmericans and you realize, even
though we're from differentplaces, we all have more in
common than we do in conflict.
Okay, we also learned that, nomatter where you come from,
we're all a spiritual people.
We all learned, you know, tolove god.
We all were primarily christian, some were muslim, but you know

(10:31):
, but we all had this faith towhere you can pray your way out
of anything.
And, um, I at times would useprayer wrong.
I remember several timesstealing stuff and hiding under
the car and said god, if you getme out of this, I'm not gonna
going to steal anymore.
I swear to you, god, this timeI really mean it.
I know I said it last time God.
And later on I would ask thepastor, I said why do you think

(10:53):
God saved me?
I said it's merciful.
He says he saved you because heknew that, even though you were
probably lying, he admired thefact that you turned to him in
your hour of darkness to say youknow what I mean.
And so he admired your faithand he knew that someday, you
know, he could turn.
That you know, because one ofthe things we often heard is

(11:15):
that you got to get past yourvices to get to your virtue and
that was one of the things thatdrove us.
But it was violent.
You got 9 million people livingin New York in a small area
relatively because of New York.

Speaker 1 (11:29):
What part of New York were you in?
Brooklyn, brooklyn.

Speaker 2 (11:32):
And you know in Brooklyn, like Tupac said, is
Brooklyn in the house.

Speaker 1 (11:36):
Yes, sir, it would go crazy.

Speaker 2 (11:39):
And we were aggressive because, literally in
New York City, you sit on atrain.
This is how a fight would start.
What are you looking at?
Okay, if you made eye contactlonger than three seconds but
the cat was like do you wantsome of me?
You know you had to get used tothat and so it was different,

(12:04):
but it was healthy from thestandpoint of that.
It taught you that the strongsurvive and those same guys that
were rough with you when youwere in another area and you're
up in the Bronx or Manhattan andthe guys that were bullying you
back in Brooklyn would see youin a jam uptown and they'd yell
out their window the rough guythat used to your neighborhood
bully would be yo, stowe, isthat a problem that I could fix,

(12:25):
you know?
And he was like because my manhere got a gat in his lap.
You know, I need to know, didyour man want any of this?
Okay, and they would go oh, Ididn't know.
You was rolling like that,stowe, my bad.
And now I got juice because myman there and me and him wasn't
even people.
It wasn't even people, yeah,but he understood.
We may fight amongst each other, but, believers, we're brothers

(12:47):
, brooklyn forever, and it's abeautiful thing.

Speaker 1 (12:58):
What your self-actualization?
Figuring out who you are, what?
At what point is that happening?
Were you getting into, maybe,sports arts?
What are your passions?
That sort of developing who youessentially will come to be.

Speaker 2 (13:08):
Oh, it was all sports .

Speaker 1 (13:09):
All sports.

Speaker 2 (13:09):
Initially it was all sports, because what happened
was sports is big At the time,coming up like in the 70s, the
best setter in the NBA wasKareem Abdul-Jabbar.
You had Connie Hawkins, you hadDr J at the forwards,
abdul-jabbar, you had ConnieHawkins, you had Dr J at the

(13:29):
forwards, you had Nate Archibaldat point guard.
You know tiny who dideverything.
All of these guys were productsof the New York City school
system, dr J, you know powermemorial with Lew Alcindor at
the time, power memorial withLou Alcindor at the time.
And, um, we had even our whiteboys were good, Um, uh, billy

(13:50):
Cunningham, you know, uh, thewhole thing.
It was like, you know, lennyWilkins, all these guys it was
uh, there was so much talentthere and so we got to see how,
you know, sports could upliftyour people, your culture, and
it was the first thing we got toadmire, because at that time
then, of course, there was therewas singing.
You know the singing groups,temptations and all of that.
So that's where the arts camein and I could sing a little bit

(14:13):
, but they were guys that justyou know, could wake up and blow
like the album.
You know, I remember I wasarrested.
We were in Brooklyn House ofDetention and you know, and
that-.
You were arrested, oh God,several times.

Speaker 1 (14:30):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (14:31):
Several times coming up.

Speaker 1 (14:32):
What were you arrested for?

Speaker 2 (14:34):
Usually stealing stuff and you know, just getting
caught up with things.
You know, because it wasn't somuch that I was a bad kid, but
you know, in the kingdom of theblind, the one-eyed man is king
and you basically did what youwere taught and so you stole
everything.
You know, if they saw youpaying to get on the train your

(14:56):
25 cents they'd say like Stoke,did you just pay to get on the
train?
What are you stupid?
What you hate?
Money?
Why would you pay?
It's like, well, because it'sthere.

Speaker 1 (15:06):
Besides this, is the second time.

Speaker 2 (15:08):
Why'd you pay this time?
Well, the cop was right there.
So what?
You just run by.
You think he's going to chaseyou.
He ain't going to catch you.
Right, he got on black shoes.
He going to take three stepsand yell at you and then he's
going to go right back.
But what if he does catch meanother cup?
Then what's he going to do?
Take you in and say like thejudge, yeah, he's still on the

(15:28):
train.
It was like it's 35 cents.
The judge is going to go likeokay, does he have it?
No, why?
Because he's 11.
He doesn't have it.
No one has it, and so nobodypaid to get on a train.
If you walked by a fruit standyou know the thing is, if
they're not listening or yourman, you say like stand behind
me, keep your head up.

(15:49):
Okay, you'd go like you knowthose watermelons, here are they
Boom, and you'd catch one andthrow it back to your man.
Your man is going to have it,or whatever.
You did that because the mafiaran the city in construction.
Half the police force wereIrish, italians or Irish.
They were all crooked, and soit became the culture, you know,

(16:11):
and it was, it was so it gotinto that.

Speaker 1 (16:15):
So you know.
So, yeah, you got caught upinto that, so you're in there.
At that time you were talkingabout being in there and in
detention.

Speaker 2 (16:22):
Oh yeah, I was so.
Yeah, so I was locked up and wewere going to—and it gets late
and it's always quiet at night,you know, and I'm just waiting
out an arraignment.
You know, so if you get lockedup on Friday, depending on how
many people get locked up, yourarraignment might not be until
Tuesday night Monday night,because you got to go through
all those flows, you know, andyou got to spend the weekend.
So I spent the weekend atBrooklyn House of Detention, me

(16:43):
and my man, and we had just seenSparkle, you know, with Pretty
Tony, who's a very good friendof mine now, tony King, who
played in Sparkle.
But and I remember it was like 3o'clock in the morning and this
guy started singing.
Last night we had an argumentand I'm like did I forget the

(17:06):
radio?
You got a radio up in here andhis voice started singing with
him from another cell.
Oh, baby, we said some things Inever meant and I'm going, oh,
and I thought he was SmokeyRobinson.
I was like he could sing.
His cats were like, you know,and so throughout the night
different cats could blow I meanradio blow and I'm going to go

(17:31):
like these cats were downrightdangerous, but they had this
gift, you know, and it's likeJodeci.
Like if you met Jodeci on thestreets back in the day, you got
to go like, okay, these arecriminals right here, okay.

Speaker 1 (17:41):
So okay, these are criminals right here.
Okay, so they got the money andsung.

Speaker 2 (17:46):
You know what I mean Keith Sweat, you know Al B Shore
, who had a football scholarshipat the time and had a falsetto
that was like ridiculous.
You just had all this talentthere, you know, from Mary J
Blige, and you know QueenLatifah and all these angry
girls that you know hadsurrounded by death and poverty
and the whole thing, but hadthis gift that you know and so,

(18:08):
yeah, it was always there.
So you had this thing withsports and entertainment to
where you got a rep to got to go, like you know, if a cat could
do something special that yourealize, you know.
And I remember the first time Iwas around 12 and a half 13.
He walked into a gym for apickup game and I heard some of
the older cats going.
You know, yeah, that's that kidStogie.

(18:29):
Yeah, he left, yeah, he's goingto be nice.
He's nice.
And I'm going like, oh my God,they know my name because these
are guys in and out of the pen.
You know the whole thing, andso it was a lot of stuff like
that.
You know that it helps shapehow you saw the world and,
inevitably, how you saw yourself.

Speaker 1 (18:46):
You got a lot of circles that's being developed
in these tender age.
You got the athletics.
You got the arts that's beingblended in there.
You got the street life that'skind of blended in there as well
, and those experiences.
Ultimately, you're now aprofessional performer and
teacher and educator.
That's how that's beenfulfilled.

(19:06):
What would you say, lookingback on it?
What's the most significant ofthose things of shaping you to
ultimately do what you're doingnow?

Speaker 2 (19:19):
I don't know at the time.
Well, I mean, I ended up in thearts longer and and it's my
career and my lifestyle, my lifepassion, but all of them were
equally important.
And it was an acting coach, alPhan, up in Harlem, who taught
me that, who taught us that,taught me that because I, my

(19:48):
mother, was a librarian, was oneof her jobs.
She kept you know, and so thirdrow people would have a thing
with running up the light bill,so you couldn't turn the TV on
until like seven o'clock afterdinner.
You can come home from team andjust turn the tv on.
You have to read and so, likeyou know, going up in detroit,
some days with snow days, somedays or rain days, you just can

(20:10):
go outside.
So you have to read something.
And same thing in thesummertime okay.
So if you got five, six kidshere or five that can read, you
gotta okay, everybody read, okay.
And it's like, okay, well, no,how do I know you're reading if
you're just on the book?
You just could be faking it andlooking at a comic book,
whatever.
Whatever you're reading, readit out loud.
Okay, he's got a comic book, Idon't care, read it out loud.

(20:32):
So you would learn to read outloud and hearing your own voice,
reading words you did not write, that were written by somebody
smarter than you write, thatwere written by somebody smarter
than you.
So I developed this thing forlanguage because I was
constantly reading out loud andI had to then, when I would read
a comic book, the whole thingto entertain my sisters.

(20:54):
Like you know, um, I would youknow, like if you're reading the
cat in the hat, you know, um,uh, I would just to make them
laugh, you know, like the cat inthe hat, the cat.
And he came in and he lookedand he saw him stepping on the
mat.
And I would go like you know,and the cat in the hat.
He looked and he saw himstepping on the mat.
He looked and he saw him, thecat in the hat.

(21:18):
So by then my mother orsomebody else, read to me and
said, no, you're not reading itright, it's like you know.
So you read it.
Show them how to read it,because they got used to it.

Speaker 1 (21:30):
And it's the same thing when I read the class, so
all these things are workingtogether.
Did you go on to college?
Finish high school?
What was your education like?
Absolutely yeah.

Speaker 2 (21:38):
I finished high school, I got a basketball
scholarship.
I also got a drama scholarshipbecause I was part of the New
York State Theater competitionwith John Hausman.
I played alto saxophone.
I played piano in church.
Going to church was mandatory.
We went to Bethany MethodistChurch my mother was
Episcopalian, coming out ofJamaica, and there was St Mark's

(22:02):
Episcopal Church which we wereall baptized at, and I went to
Bethany Methodist Church and soyou had to play piano at church
and the whole thing and all ofthat.
I played saxophone in the jazzband in school and I played on
the basketball team, okay, andwhen I wasn't chasing girls I
was stealing, because that's howwe got stuff free.

(22:23):
I was a kleptomaniac.
I didn't know what that was andI said it sounded important and
I said you know, I'm what shesaid in fourth grade and I
remember Hannah Pickett saidyou're a kleptomaniac.
And I was like thank you.
I said no, you can't say ituntil fourth grade, but it
sounded intelligent.

Speaker 1 (22:41):
It sounded like a kleptomaniac.

Speaker 2 (22:43):
I'm like, I'm a kleptomaniac.
And it's like that's not acomment.
I said what does it mean?
It means you can't helpyourself from stealing, and it's
a disease.
I'm going like, oh, no, no, no.
I said, oh, I steal because Ilike getting nice stuff for free
.
This way it's affordable.

(23:04):
And it was like she didn'tunderstand it.
But, from my fourth grade mind,if you got new sneakers, it's
like why you got old sneakers on, you got new sneakers.
It's like come meet me atMacy's.
So my man would take me toMacy's and we go, I'm going to
get me a new sneaker.
Do what I do, okay.
And so it's like yeah, whatsize do you wear?

(23:27):
I wear a 10 and a half, okay.
You, okay, axe for a 12.
But I don't wear 12.
Axe for a 12.
So I'd axe for a 12.
Try, okay.
No, ma'am, these are too big.
They're too big.
I'll get you an 11.
She comes up with the 11.
She tries the 11 on.

(23:47):
Okay, all right, take your time.
Take your time, but you getbusy Now.
She's busy when she's busy andbehind the counter, put your old
sneakers back in the new box.
Walk up to the counter whenshe's busy with other people,
ma'am, yeah, could you holdthese for me?
My mom's going to come back.
Okay, yeah, just put them rightthere on the counter.
I put the new shoes right thereon the counter and then we both

(24:09):
turn and we walk out With thenew shoes on.
We're wearing the new shoes, mynew shoes, in the box.
No one's stopping us.

Speaker 1 (24:15):
I came in with what I came in with.

Speaker 2 (24:20):
I have nothing in my hand.
I don't have anything, If theydo catch you silly me.

Speaker 1 (24:24):
I forgot to take them all.

Speaker 2 (24:27):
That's not a whole city.
Anybody got new sneakers thatway, everybody.
And if not, go to another store, okay, but you have to go when
it's crowded.
You got to go on a Saturday andyou wait till it's crowded,
okay, and it's like you know.
Then you mull over it.
Do I want black or do I wantwhite?
They only came.
Do you have these in?
It was like she already toldyou you have these in a little
top.
Eventually.

(24:47):
They're not.
So you know, and we had noconscience with it.
But the thing that I would saywhy I say they were all equal is
I was an Al fan.
You know cause I had this, thismemory?
Cause I read so much, and themore you read, the more you read
, the more you hear yourselfspeak.
You develop this quest forlanguage, and so I was in acting
class and I was literallybetter than everybody.

(25:11):
Just came really easy to memm-hmm and.
And so I showed up late, asusual, and I sat where near the
end.
I was like this, because thisis how we lay down in the chair
and al fan came.
He said um, so he's like, okay,um, no, he was explained to the

(25:32):
other student why they weregoing to have to work hard and
study hard, unless you have anexceptional talent.
Okay.
And the guy said well, I havetalent.
He no, a talent is when you cando I can do the same thing he
does.
Why don't I have talent?
He said a talent is when youcan do easily, but others do
hard.
He said take Stogie, forinstance.

(25:54):
He has talent.
He can walk up here right nowand he'll be brilliant, even
though he missed half the class.
However, look at him.
He's got no discipline.
He's laying down in the chair,his feet are in the aisle.
He's got M&Ms, which heprobably stole from somewhere.

(26:17):
I got to go on.
M&ms didn't make a lot of noisewhen you grab the bag, so very
easy to steal.
And he said he's got tremendoustalent, he's got a gift, but
he's got no discipline.
But if he doesn't work as hardon his discipline as you have to

(26:44):
work on developing your talent,you're both going to fail.
Wow, because nature is fair andwhatever it gives you in one
area, it takes away in the next.
So I tolerate Stogie cominglate and I tolerate the fact
that he's not paying attention.
Then, when it's his turn to getup here, he blows me away and

(27:06):
he's brilliant and I see why Itolerate him, because I know
nature didn't give him thediscipline because it gave him
talent.
It didn't give him a father.
He's clearly got an angermanagement problem and he's
stealing because that watch he'swearing is probably he,

(27:27):
probably didn't pay.
He's breaking you all the waydown to the core and I'm there
like because he went first whenI told me I handled this one,
this best, the way he did it isdifferent.

Speaker 1 (27:39):
so it's interesting because you have the economic
aspect of it that's rooted in astealing, because limited
resources makes it morecaptivating to be able to get
something without paying for it.
Now, if you have the sufficientresources to pay for not just
necessities but a reasonablesense of privileges, stealing is

(28:02):
not on the table, and so that'sbeing brought into it.
But it also is developing youin this area of athletics and
arts to sort of see which one'sgoing to pull you here, which
one's going to pull you there.
Are you going to be this solelystreet guy or are you going to
be this person that sort of usesthat craftiness to develop this

(28:25):
arts and this athletic giftsand talents, as the professor
says, that God has given you?
What's the next big move foryou?
Post-basketball, scholarship,post-school what's the next big
move for you?

Speaker 2 (28:43):
I came to California I wanted to study drama but,
being of Jamaican ancestry andthird world intellect and
ambition, family was like.
Oh, that's not what we do incollege.
We don't study foolishness.
We know you're brilliant, youdon't need to go to school to

(29:04):
become a better actor.
So I'm going to study law andpolitical science, Because then
you could affect change and thewhole thing, and I learned early
on.
They said in 90% of theelections you go back.
I don't care which country, butprimarily in America and
England, the tallest,best-looking candidate always

(29:27):
wins.
Period, Period, End of story.
The one time I thought it's notgoing to work.
Now, Finally, it's going to getblown out of the water.
It's not going to work".
That was when John McCain, ashort war hero with 30 years of

(29:52):
politics, political experience,five years as a POW and beloved
on both sides of the aisle, ranagainst a neophyte from Hawaii,
which did not have a historicalbase nor a base in civil rights,
named Barack Hussein Obama.
And whether Jesse Jackson orMagic Johnson or Johnson from

(30:19):
BET, everybody was like Hillarygot this.

Speaker 1 (30:24):
Not only did he beat Hillary they said he won't win.
Yeah, the first Hillary win inthe primary.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (30:29):
He won't win in the general.
Not against a war hero, notagainst a white man, not against
this.
Here he won by five millionvotes, wow.
And I said, oh my God, thetallest, best looking candidate
won again Again.
Are we really that shallow?
Yes, to some degree.
Yes, but also, too, if theybring with them this ability to

(30:53):
use language effectively.
I had that conversation with mywife, you know.
She said you said the samething and I'd say give me the
phone.
I'm going to pretend I'm youand I'm going to ask for the
same thing, except I'm going tobe a little bit ruder, but I'm
going to use the language moreeffectively than you do.
In every conversation there's awinner, there's a loser.
You're either buying something,everybody's selling something,

(31:15):
they're selling you that wedon't have it and you're not the
right person for the job.
And I'm selling that.
Yes, I am, and I need you.
You need to cut this check,okay, and it's like you may hang
up thinking you didn't make asale, but somebody bought
something, okay, and so thething is, is that what that did
for me with Al was he made itall?

(31:38):
After the class I spoke to himthe acting coach, and I said why
would you say I won't make itif I don't have any discipline?
I don't do dope, I don't drinkalcohol and I don't beat women
Because I have all sisters andmy father had an anger
management problem and was kindof aggressive with my mother and
you know we broke up at 12 andthe whole thing, and that's when

(32:00):
I started getting arrested, at11, 12 and the whole thing, and
so you know.
But in New York they throw yourjuvenile record out when you
turn 17.
At that time and you get afresh start.
Oh wow, because you know you'rejuvenile, the whole thing.
And New York knew that they wererailroading black kids, like if

(32:20):
you get picked up from a littleleague game.
But you're the 12 year oldneighbor and his 19 year old
brother picks you up becauseit's starting to rain and he
said get in the car.
And he said my brother's hereand he jumped in the backseat of
his brother's electric deuceand a quarter okay.
And five miles later he getspulled over and it turns out his
paperwork ain't right becausethe car is stolen.
New York's will charge all ofus with GTA, grand Theft Auto.

Speaker 1 (32:45):
Everybody in the car.

Speaker 2 (32:46):
And people got to go like, first of all, the short
one can't reach the pedal,stokey 12 and a half, they're
not driving Well, they're notdriving.
And they can't drive from thebackseat Right.
Why are you charging them withGTA?
Well, because if you're in astolen car, the whole thing,
which is a terrible law.
It doesn't hold up in court andit gets tossed, but it does
criminalize the kidunnecessarily.

Speaker 1 (33:06):
And once that criminalization takes place you
see what I'm saying, you'restagnant.
Now your name is in there, thewhole thing you know, and it's
like You're in the system.

Speaker 2 (33:18):
Yeah, you were charged with GTA, but it was no,
your Honor.
What year was that?
What year was the defendantwhen that took place?
Well, based on the age, okay,so it's 12 and a half.
How many people were in the carwhen he got five?
So five people can't sit in thefront, so where was he?
Probably?
Sitting In the back?
You charge a 12-year-oldsitting in the back with a giant
theft auto.
There's a problem.

(33:39):
So you grow up in a city thatyou know glorifies crime.
The mafia did everything.
John Gotti was a legend in thatcity, so you know, when he
pointed out to me that charactercounts, this acting coach, and
that I said so, did I saysomething that was wrong?

(34:03):
Stogie?
I said no, Al, you did not sayanything that was wrong.
I'm concerned with something youdid say, though.
You said what is that?
Something you said concerns medeeply.
You said that when nature givesyou something, it takes
something away.
Gives you something, it takessomething away in another area

(34:24):
that's equal.
So you'll have to work hard.
He said that's exactly right.
You're going to have to worktwice as hard because God gave
you this gift.
You look at a script and ineight seconds you got to go like
okay, and then you give half ofit.
Looking at the other actor,everybody else is like and yes,

(34:47):
and so yeah, and pastor hurt.
So when do you think you'll beback past the hurt?
And they do that.
You look at it and go like sowhen you think you'll be back
past the hurt?
It's that, yeah, you canemotionalize and cry on command
and the whole thing.
You can do all that stuff.
Why?
Because your emotions stickclose to the core.

(35:10):
That's the root of your angermanagement problem too.
Because your emotions are closeto the core.
It sets you off quick.
But as an artist, if you canuse it effectively, you can move
nations, you can move the crowd.

Speaker 1 (35:25):
Well, let's dig into your artistry.
One of the most profound andwonderful things I've ever seen
in human history, in my history,was your one-man show stage
performance of the Life of PaulRobeson.
It was a name that I was trulyfamiliar with but did not know

(35:50):
as much as I needed to knowabout him, and one day I decided
to journey off and see thisplay.
Couldn't talk anybody to gowith me, I'm just going to go by
myself.
It was a Sunday at the LongChurch, Eyes are heavy and I'm
so captivated.
Sleep demon just leaves me.

(36:11):
I'm bent over in my seat.
I'm amazed by your performance.
I'm amazed by the life of PaulRobinson, of which I'm much more
familiar with now because ofyou.
Solely on that, that play alone.
But just doing my own researchand reading afterwards, what
tell people about theperformance, the show, and then

(36:32):
what drew you to Paul Robeson tobe the artistic expression,
artistic expression of which youdid that.

Speaker 2 (36:42):
Well, thank you, but Paul Robeson is America's first
black renaissance man, meaninghe excelled in everything that
made black folks rich and famous.
He's one generation removedfrom slavery, born in 1898,
april 9th 1898.

(37:03):
His father was freed fromslavery by Harriet Tubman
herself, who brought him toPhiladelphia.
Wow, and so he was the last son.
His father was a preacher inthe First AME Church.

Speaker 1 (37:20):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (37:21):
And his mother was a schoolteacher.
The first AME church, yeah, andhis mother was a schoolteacher.
They were homeschooled at thetime because of course they
didn't have black schools forthe kids.
And he was the youngest born.
They named him after theApostle Paul.
And he grew up and he wasbrilliant in school.
He was an All-American footballplayer.
Basketball he ran track on thefootball, on the track team, he

(37:43):
ran hurdles.
Basketball he ran track on thetrack team, he ran hurdles and
he played catch on a baseballteam.
He was an All-American infootball and basketball and he
did so well in school.
He was valedictorian in 1919.
Wow, that was significant,because not only was he the
third African-American to everget an academic scholarship in
these United States in 1914, anacademic scholarship and then he

(38:13):
graduated magna cum laude,valedictorian.
What school was this?
Rutgers University.
And here it was.
It flew in the face of the factthat enslaved Africans were
intellectually and culturallyinferior, that they were not
much dumber than animals, and sohis journey there did that.

(38:35):
And so, of course, when hegraduated valedictorian, no one
would still hire him because,still, the best job he was
offered was a janitor.
So his older brother suggestedthat he take the LSAT, go to law
school admissions test.
And he took that because atthat time they didn't have a box
where you check what yourethnicity was.

(38:56):
And he got in ColumbiaUniversity School of Law along
with four other schoolsaccepting him.
But he chose to go to Columbiaand he graduated in two years.
When he got there they didn'tbelieve it was him because they
said no African-Americans couldpass this test.
How are you here?
They thought you know, you'rejust overdressed with a

(39:17):
janitorial job and the wholething.
Then they had to do some factchecking and rechecking drive
out to Rutgers see the inductionceremony, check his transcripts
.
And he graduated two years later, became the first Negro
attorney hired by a Manhattanlaw firm and they would never
let him go to court because theysaid no judge in America will
ever decide a case in favor of aNegro against a white

(39:41):
counterpart.
And so, as a result, you hadall of this going on and his
wife talked him into using hisgreat bass baritone voice to
sing and you know and get onstage.
And one thing led to anotheruse arts and culture as a way to

(40:01):
uplift not only our race andsociety but to enlighten the
world as to who they are and,like he told Harry Belafonte
many years later, they won'tlisten to you until you get them
to sing your song.
And so it was important thatonce he did that and they saw
that he could do easily whatothers couldn't do at all, that

(40:24):
it helped change the game and hewas part of the Renaissance.

Speaker 1 (40:26):
He's a Renaissance man because he excelled
intellectually, he excelled inarts and he excelled in
athletics.
This is during the time of theHarlem Renaissance Renaissance
and there's that movement takingplace.
Tell us a little bit about theHarlem Renaissance and how

(40:46):
timing kind of birthed theacceleration of Paul Robeson
during that time yeah, theHarlem Renaissance, where Harlem
was the, the capital ofeverything in black America.

Speaker 2 (40:58):
And so you had all the musicians and the social
intellectuals like James Baldwin, wb Du Bois and Douglasson, all
these writers that you knowit's like— by the way, wb Du
Bois is a French name NewOrleans, louisiana, the whole
thing.

(41:18):
The correct pronunciation isDubois, but Du Bois insisted
don't use the whole thing.
The correct pronunciation isDubois, but Du Bois insisted
don't use the Frenchpronunciation.
It separates me from blackpeople, like I'm trying to be
French when we're Africans orwe're nothing at all.
And this embracing of ourculture to where we were loved,

(41:40):
like that, the HarlemRenaissance exposed the fact
that 90, every single form ofmusic on the planet Earth had
its roots in African culture,from rock and roll to country to
jazz, to which births all ofblues and bluegrass and all that

(42:01):
to R&B, to soul music, to hiphop, to everything had its roots
there.
And so, whether you're Nat KingCole or you know you're Cab
Calloway or whatever it was, youknow we just sat at a piano and
we just did this beautiful work.
And so the Renaissance, and whyRobeson was a Renaissance is
because you have left brain.
You have right brain, leftbrain is the artistic, creative

(42:23):
side and the right brain is thebook side.
The whole thing Robesonexcelled at both the book side.
You know an attorney in 1919passing the bar.
You know he didn't want to singat first.
They told him they said youshould sing Paul and be a tier

(42:46):
two career as a singer.
He said I didn't go to lawschool and learn 10 languages so
I could sing pretty songs forwhite people.
He said that in the 1920s.

Speaker 1 (42:54):
Just threw that out.
Robinson also knew 10 languages.
Yes, you know what I mean.

Speaker 2 (42:58):
And he had linguistics, you know, and so he
had this brilliance.
You know, he helped founded theOrganization of African Unity,
the OAU, the Organization forAfrican Unity, along with WB Du
Bois, nnamdi Azikiwe, who laterbecame the president of Nigeria,
kwame Nkrumah, who became thepresident of Ghana, and Jomo

(43:21):
Kenyatta, who later became thepresident of Kenya.
Wow, those four men were all atthe University of London at the
same time, where the show went,and they named the thing after
him when we were in London, andwell, it was always the housing,
his unit's named after PaulRobeson, there at the University
of London, and he spoke theselanguages, he spoke Swahili and

(43:42):
several other African tonguesand all these things.
And so it was Renaissance,because he had athletics, he had
law, political, social justiceand entertainment.
These are the three fields towhere African Americans
blossomed and took everything,you know.
And so he was Thurgood Marshalland Jackie Robinson and Joe

(44:04):
Louis and Nat King Cole allrolled into one, you know, and
so that was a tremendous feat.
And so, you know, he married abeautiful black lady, eslanda,
and you know, and they weretogether 44 years.
It's a romantic romantic.
The name of my show is theWorld is my Home.

(44:24):
The Life of Paul Robeson, which, incidentally, we'll be playing
in two weeks at the SantaMonica Playhouse on May 25th,
saturday night, and Kenyon andthe family here at D-Network
Studios will be coming andchance and hopefully I'll be
back to my best performance atany church ever was at the Mount

(44:50):
Sinai Missionary.
Baptist Church in 2019.
And it was.
It's just profound, it's afaith-based piece, yeah, and
I've had some trouble with itbecause there's somebody say,
like listen, we try to stayneutral with religion and so
that's a luxury we, as Africans,cannot afford, because we know,
okay, it was God that drives us, one of the things that helped

(45:13):
us and why Robeson was soimportant.
After the Harlem Renaissance, Iwas exposing all the brilliance
after World War II.
I was exposing all thebrilliance after World War II.
You know World War.
I was so bad they called it thewar to end all wars.
So the leaders of the greatwhite world, what do you think
they did?
Around 18 years later, theydecided to have World War II.

Speaker 1 (45:32):
Between.

Speaker 2 (45:32):
World War I and World War II 97 million dead.
Of the 97 million, 70 millionof those were civilians.
Wow, we were a brutal, brutalworld at the time.
On or about July 21st or 23rd,united States of America,
somewhere in the desert in NewMexico, tested the atom bomb for

(45:56):
the very first time.
By August 6th, they used it.
It's like a new shirt youcouldn't wait to wear it.
They used it.
They didn't have it two weeks,right, they dropped it on
Hiroshima.
Yeah, atomic bomb and it justdid the movie on it.

Speaker 1 (46:10):
What was the movie?
Yeah it just came out.
It had a bunch of Oscars.
Yeah, right, and really thepremise of the movie was sort of
liberating the decision to dropthe atomic bomb, sort of the
creator of it, liberating thecreator of it and more getting

(46:31):
into the nuances of droppingthat atomic bomb.
It certainly was new to thembut it was a lot of
complications taking place inthe world.
They never uh, hopefully shouldhave never been done.
But also, you know, truman iscelebrated, um now for making
that difficult decision andthat's a that's an expansive

(46:53):
conversation with in there, um,about that.
You talk about something socritical that I want you to lean
on a little bit more is becausewe're a product of our times,
right, you know, you talk about,well, who's the best president
of all time, and most historianswould have a short list of who
would qualify for that.

(47:14):
And the reason why thoseindividuals will qualify is
because they led during a uniquetime.
Is because they led during aunique time Abraham Lincoln,
civil War, george Washington,the Revolution, fdr, world War

(47:36):
II.
Robeson is being birthed in atime where African-Americans are
separating themselvesartistically and intellectually
in the country and in the realsense, when you study Robeson's
life, he's the leader of allthat.
Can you talk a little bit about, a little bit more about
Robeson's self-actualization.
We asked you about that and Ikind of want to see the mirror

(47:58):
of that, of making thattransition into the arts, but
doing it in a way where there isstill this intellectual
consciousness of it.
You think of a Kendrick Lamar,you think of a.
You know other artists, modernday artists, who are not just
good performers but they alsomake you think.

(48:19):
They also are on performers butthey also make you think.
Right, they also, uh, are on.
They have their hand and theirear to the street of what the
social and intellectual issuesare of the day, and robeson was
that.
Can you talk a little bit aboutrobeson's, which ultimately
will get him banished fromamerica?
Not just someone on the stagesinging, um, but someone on the

(48:40):
stage singing with meaning andpurpose.

Speaker 2 (48:43):
Right, yeah, he used the arts as I'm trying to
pattern him One of the lines inthe play.
I never heard him say it, butit was always been my motto that
it is the mission of the artistto try to save the soul of
humanity.
And this thing to where you canreach out and touch people.

(49:05):
You know the success of my showthe last 20 years and when I do
, mass people say how's yourshow?
So I say, how do people keepbuying it?
Why do they keep buying it?
Why do they keep calling thecamera?
I said, listen, you make themlaugh, you entertain them.
They'll stand up and give you astanding ovation.
Okay, you educate them, youtouch their soul, you touch

(49:28):
their heart, you move them totears.
Not only will they come backagain but they'll cut you a
check.
But I say that to say becausewe have a social responsibility
to our shared humanity.
Say that again, we have asocial collective responsibility

(49:50):
to our shared humanity.
And this thing to where?
When Robeson was going out,where he fought for the Jews,
because he realized they werethe second most despised race on
the planet Earth the Jews,because you realize they were
the second most despised race onthe planet Earth and the two
most despised race, africans andJews, created almost 99% of the
music, except for opera, whichwas created by the Italians.

(50:12):
Everything else classical.
Everything else belongs toAfricans, and you know, and some
classical to the Jews, buteverything else is us, you know,
and some classical to the Jews,but everything else is us.
So how is it that the mostdespised race has the most joy
and made the largest culturalartistic contribution to
humanity?

(50:32):
Please tell us.
Because we serve a mightymighty God, and because God is
generous in his application,because he's trying to teach us
something.
So when things don't go right,I often say that God's trying to
teach me something.
Because I know I'm blessed tobe here.
I've been next to guys to wherethe bullet swift by me and hits

(50:56):
him and I'm going like it'slike hey, who's shooting?
It was like you know, oh my God, what happened, and it was like
some call it luck.
But I know it's like hey, who'sshooting?
They shooting.
It was like you know, oh my god, what, and it was like some
call it luck.
But I know it's grace, becausemy grandmother would tell me
that, my mother would tell methat, oh, you won't believe what
happened today.
I, you won't believe my luck,my luck, I got so lucky.
I got so lucky.
It's not luck, it's yourgrandma and mama's silent

(51:20):
prayers.
You ain't out there alone.
You are not out there alone andthis thing is, this gift.
We don't understand it.
There's so much we don't know.
When I won the NAACP award, ayoung actor came up to tell me
how fantastic it was in the showand everything and how.
You know how I carried myselfwith such dignity and I dressed

(51:42):
and I spoke and I'm like what isyour name, young man?
And he just played JackieRobinson in a thing, and then
Thurgood Marshall and he laterplayed Black Panther and I'm
like what a phenomenal career.
And this kid is exceedinglybright and so polite.

(52:03):
When he walked away from me Iwas like you know, that is
quality parenting.
Whoever raised that kid?
No, I wasn't.
He had no sense of ego ornothing.
But Chadwick Boseman was likehumility personified.
I mean his track record.
He played James Brown, thurgoodMarshall and Jackie Robinson.

(52:26):
Where'd he do that at?
How could those three guys evenbe in the same room together?
Played them all.
Then the Black Panther.
Then he's at $25 million apicture and I've heard many
actors say, man, I wish I had acareer, I wish I had this, I
wish I was him, I wish I hadthis career, I wish I had a
career, I wish I had this, Iwish I was him, I wish I had
this career, I wish I had this.
And I said no.
The ghetto taught me a longtime ago Never curse your luck.

(52:47):
We all have to run our own race, and so we don't get to decide
where you cross the finish lineor who pulls up, or who grabs
your ankle or whose knees goesout on them.
The whole thing because you gotto run your own race.
And that's why you pray,because there's so much you
don't understand.
But if you had said and Godgranted you, which said, you get

(53:08):
to be Chadwick Boseman.
Then, before your marriage,after you gave that beautiful
commencement speech at HarvardUniversity which touched my
heart, it was so beautiful andyou never got to have marry a
queen and have babies with her,and even though you were making
$25 million a movie and you hadmaybe $70 million in the bank,
the bell tolls for you and hecalled you home.

(53:30):
Now are you ready to go If youwant his sunshine?
You got to take his rain, andso you have this thing to where,
and people say to me man, butyour talent, you should be so
much, you should be so much youshould be this or I should be
dead, because there are a lot ofcats that you know.
It's like you know, there was arap song back in the day.

(53:51):
My boy wrote it and it was likehe said he had the heart of a
lion and the courage of three,and the mind of a man much wiser
than me is a soul of a brotherwho won't come back, who died in
my arms on a railroad track.
That's poetry, yeah, that's.

Speaker 1 (54:10):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (54:11):
And I'm going like the heart of a lion, the courage
of three, in the mind of a manmuch wiser than me, is a soul of
a brother who won't come back,who died in my arms on a
railroad track.
Who's this?
That was Melly Mel and GrandMass in them.
Yeah, wrote it back in the dayin the early formation of rap.
Yeah, okay, and I'm going like,oh, my God, right, you know

(54:34):
what I mean.
And this thing, to where you gotto go, like how did that come
out of you?
And it was like, but you livedit.
Did that come out of you?
What it is like?
But you lived it.
You lived a story andeverybody's went to war, says,
like you know, I went to thefuneral today of a better guy
than me.
Yeah, I should have it, shouldhave been me, he didn't deserve
to die away.
And so this is the thing, andthis is why we pray, because

(54:55):
it's grace.
And people say, like you know,they, you know, and people have
told me, stogie, you're not richenough, black enough, jewish
enough, gay enough or luckyenough to have been famous.
And I'm going like that may beso, but the thing I'm saying,
I'm not trying for luck, I'm notasking none of that why.
I'm just waiting to be touchedby grace and when the time comes

(55:18):
it'll come.
God gave me a queen, the wholething, and, like I said, I knew
I came up rough and in thestreets and sometimes, like
Khalil Gibran said in theprophet, that sometimes us
former sinners have to knock ourknocks at the door of paradise

(55:39):
will be unheeded for a while,because this is our journey.
You know what I mean and so,yeah, so it is that beautiful
thing, but there is thatcorrelation between art and
humanity and I don't make aseparation because it was the
arts that brought me to you thewhole time I'm doing that show.
When you were there, you hadyour hat on, it was tilted to
the side and because I'm onstage with the lights in my eyes

(55:59):
, I could only see a silhouetteof you.
But and because I'm on stagewith the lights in my eyes, I
can only see a silhouette of you.
But it was so gangster becauseyour hat was tilted and you had
this hat on and you had the coaton and you were leaning forward
like this, you know, andeverybody else was leaning in
black.
You know, and I'm going, likeyou know, was that gangster,
because you know it's like I'vedone shows and it was like you
know, and I thought like one ofmy Detroit players, because you

(56:23):
know that Brooklyn, detroitthing, like Biggie used to say
there was always that strongconnection.
And I was near the TallahoocheeRiver, down on the border of
Georgia and Alabama, andperforming for a corporate gig
sold out a Black History Monthgig down there, and I didn't
really know, know, but three ortwo people in the audience who

(56:44):
drove down from atlanta and, um,uh, one of the guys cleaning up
the place, uh, saw the programand he works as a janitor and he
saw the program.
He said yo, homie, what I knowyou man, he's like uh, so we
grew up together.
I said no, you didn't, I ain'tfrom down here.

(57:05):
He said no, I'm from Brooklyn,and he was like you know.
I said what's your name?
And it was like, and I was like, and as he was talking, I was
like Supreme, because that was astreet name, and I'm like, oh
man, I seen you in over 20 years, around 20, 20 years, 20 years.

(57:26):
So now it's been around 27 andI ain't been that long.
He says it's been around 28years since I've seen you.
It ain't been that long, comeon.
He said yeah, because I did 27years in the pen and I've been
out for around a year now wowand I said what happened.
He said well, me and my mans, wewere making a move to.
You know, we'd broken into somedrugs before we did this

(57:48):
robbery and the police came andwe got busted.
So it was a regular B&E.
You know, you only get threeyears, you'd be home in 18
months.
So we had a strap.
But, you know, my man came out.
He said we're coming out,coming out one at a time.
And so my man came out with hishands up like the whole thing,

(58:10):
because we surrendered, becausewe talked about it, we're going
to three, you know, be home inthe year and a half or whatever
come out and the cop shot him.
Wow, and he was unarmed, thewhole thing.
So I figured, oh, we're goingto hold court in the streets.
So I came out blasting and shothim.

(58:31):
So he caught a 30 plus 35 yearbid.
He did 27.
Wow, and so he just came home.
Wow, and he was like so I saidto God, so he talked, and you
know, and he said so.
I said God, so he talked, andyou know, and he said so we
reacclaimed ourselves.
So at the end of the day, Isaid so how you been man.
And he looked me in my eyes andhe said, hey, life is fair life

(58:56):
is fair.
I ain't done no time.
I don't think life is fair.
He said Stoke, not everybody gobehind that wall.
I ain't done, no time, I don'tthink life is fair.
He said Stoke, not everybodythat go behind that wall, come
out from behind that wall.
Baby, I'm here and I got to seeyou do this show and I'm
keeping this program and I don'ttell everybody.

(59:17):
I know you, man.

Speaker 1 (59:21):
It did something to me Life is fair.

Speaker 2 (59:22):
And did something to me.
Life is fair and it's allperspective.

Speaker 1 (59:27):
It's all perspective.
It's a beautiful journey, butit's like it's all perspective.

Speaker 2 (59:31):
You know what I mean.

Speaker 1 (59:32):
So yeah, so this thing, you know, the whole thing
, you know, it's the journey, mybrother, let's dig into Robeson
a little bit deeper, because hebecame a, in the eyes of
American government, a treasonand things of that nature.
How did that happen?

(59:53):
How did this just stageperformer let's talk about his
highs.
And then how did this stageperformer become international
stage performer, now become oneof the people that's being
excuse me that has to testifybefore the Congress House of
American?

Speaker 2 (01:00:10):
Activities Committee, because he had traveled abroad
Germany, berlin, the whole thingtraveled abroad singing,
performing he spoke some Russian, germany, berlin, the whole
thing.

Speaker 1 (01:00:22):
Trevor Broad singing performing.

Speaker 2 (01:00:24):
He spoke some Russian .
He lived in Russia for fouryears.
He spoke fluent Russianactually, and there were quite a
few Jamaicans there because—andhe embraced socialism.
Now people say, well, why wouldhe embrace communism?
I'm saying well, you have totake into consideration the
social criteria we're livingunder.

(01:00:44):
And if you're living to wherethe black man is three-fifths of
a man and you can kill him,spit on him, do whatever, and
you're not considered a murdererbecause he's not considered a
man, this was the government.
This was the governmentno-transcript.

(01:01:18):
The Christians, the AmericanChristians said we agree that
the black man is not a man.
And black Christians said allmen are created equal, it says
on your constitution, withcertain inalienable rights life,
liberty, the pursuit ofhappiness.

(01:01:38):
Why does that not apply to theblack man?
It says because the church andthe pastors said the white
pastors said the pursuit ofhappiness.
Why does that not apply to theblack man?
It says because the church andthe pastors said the white
pastor said the black man is nota man because it's written in
the Bible that God made man inhis own image.
And God is white and the blackman is not.

Speaker 1 (01:02:04):
Therefore, the black man is not an image of God.

Speaker 2 (01:02:06):
So therefore the black man is not a man" and
overlooked all the historicalstuff that would refute that.
So socialism said.

Speaker 1 (01:02:14):
Robeson's picking up Go ahead yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:02:16):
Yeah, so socialism said we're going to share
equally amongst the people thewhole thing.
Socialism said we're going toshare equally amongst the people
the whole thing in taxation,the whole thing, so that there's
an equal foundation for society, and government will do so, so
that we will not have civil warsand you won't be better than
the next man.
Because this, you know what Imean.

Speaker 1 (01:02:40):
And so and that's what at that time and socialism
is interchangeable withcommunism, right.

Speaker 2 (01:02:43):
Yeah, you know.
And so, just like capitalismand democracy tend to be, you
know.
Now, of course, socialism didend up getting corrupt later on,
but at that point in time, forthe African in America,
socialism would have been likeyeah, we can all eat, because
separate wasn't equal Mm-hmm,separate wasn't equal at all.
You see the white waterfountain.

(01:03:04):
You can drink the same waterfountain.

Speaker 1 (01:03:07):
FBI legalizes, legitimizes their investigation
of Robeson because he'sembracing communism, because of
the notions of the Cold War andChina being a communist country
and other places that werelabeled as enemies, which King
also was labeled as the samething and legitimized his FBI
investigation.

Speaker 2 (01:03:29):
And all of this was fraudulently done in the whole
thing, and the fact that hespent time in Nikita Khrushchev,
the Soviet premier, in thewhole thing.
But he said but over there theytreat me with grace and dignity
and they don't call me—theyacknowledge my intellect and my
talent, whereas in America myskin speaks before I do.
All you see is a black man.

(01:03:53):
Over there, at least, they seea man.
So it was a no-brainer, okay.
And then, along with it all theJews were socialists, because
Soviet Jewry was a big thing,because it was like they too
were, you know.
And so the thing is, it got tobe so politically dangerous to

(01:04:17):
be black under this socialcriteria that you had to really,
really, you know, dig intosomething to say, wow, we got to
, you know.
And so that was part of it.
So you know.
So it was a big thing.
And then when the Peak School,new York concert, the result in
a race ride, the whole thing wascalled the Testified Forced
House in America and refused tosign a loyalty oath to an
America which said I wouldprotect American ideology, the

(01:04:41):
whole thing.
And he said why would Ipossibly do that?
America needs to sign a loyaltyoath to me after all they've
done so.
You know so it was, but we knownow that was all it was just a
smokescreen for what isbasically your standard racism
no more than Trump and them aredoing right now.
It's pretty much.

Speaker 1 (01:04:57):
How would you say that African-Americans during
the time embraced Robeson?

Speaker 2 (01:05:05):
They did not as much, because there's a part in the
play to where Langston Hughescomes by and he tells him you
know, paul, it's not that Iwrote it, it's not that Negro
people don't love you, they justdon't have the intellect to
understand you.
So you're a valedictorian witha law degree.
They're lucky if they got ayear of high school you done

(01:05:30):
traveled the world half a dozentimes, over the whole world.
You speak 10, 12 languagesfluently, they struggling to
learn one.
Who they know like you, paul,who they know like you, he's
like you know.
He said I know it's a dark,dangerous, dark, lonely place to

(01:05:53):
be A stranger in your own landamongst your own people.
But who they know like you,paul, you're too smart for the
room.
You're too smart for the room.
You're too smart for the room.
And what he's saying is similarto the same problem that Dr King
had when Adam Clayton Powellheard in Harlem, new York, a

(01:06:18):
26-year-old Southern preachersay I will bring down—together
we will bring down the entirepublic transportation system of
Montgomery, alabama and theentire South, without ever
firing a shot or lifting afinger Like they did in biblical

(01:06:40):
times.
The walls of Jericho will cometumbling down and Adam Clayton.
Wow, that's all.
That's good rhetoric.
I tell you about that young boy.
I don't know what he's talkingabout.
How are you going to do it?
He's like what are they goingto do?
What are they going to sing itdown?
They're going to go.
And they had laughs, you know,and it was like, yeah, yeah, let
me help that girl with herblouse, okay.
And it was like, you know, thatwas Adam Clayton Powell, and

(01:07:01):
and I understood that becauseyou can, the things you don't
understand, you know with yourspirit, with your regular eye,
you have to understand what yourspiritual eye, okay, and the
things that you don't see inyour mind, you feel in your
heart.
So what Dr King was saying, hewas too smart for the room.
So he trusted that system andhe said in God's words that the

(01:07:27):
walls of Jericho will come, thetrumpets will blare, they'll
march around it for a certainamount of days, and he said we
will walk, we will boycott thebuses, we will take their, we
will not drive their buses,we'll have carpools, we'll do
this, we'll do whatever it needs, but we'll never sit on their
bus, we won't do it".
And the economic system fellout and inside of 10 months they

(01:07:47):
desegregated all of publictransportation in the entire
South Absolutely.

Speaker 1 (01:07:53):
And so.

Speaker 2 (01:07:53):
Dr King won.
That would have been a goodtime for Adam Clayton Powell to
come out and say I didn't havethe foresight nor the insight to
see what this young brother wassaying, but he was right and I
was wrong.
And like the walls of Jericho,it did come tumbling down.
And not that I don't serve thesame God, but this Dr King.
He serves me in a mightier wayand clearly he believes what I

(01:08:15):
did not.
Because you know, like he said,you know the doubting Thomas,
you know you have felt, so nowyou believe.
but blessed are they thatbelieve and have not seen and so
you know, and it was, but soit's a beautiful thing.
It's the same thing withRobeson, yeah, when, you know,
it was like he was so lightyears ahead of this time with

(01:08:35):
that, you know, and yet still heunderstood their faults and he
understood why, he understoodthe why, and he know that.
It's not that you don't love me, you just have not yet been
taught how and you know, and soit's yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:08:53):
Yeah, robeson, unique background intellectually,
background intellectually, andthen what started as music
turned into arts selling outacross the world, ultimately
being outlawed and banished bythe American governmental system

(01:09:16):
.
And you do see that pattern andmuch of that mimic in the life
of King with Robeson.
But there's another parallelthat you make in your Q&A time,
in your play with Robeson withanother figure, that is Barack
Obama.
Can you talk about that?

Speaker 2 (01:09:33):
Oh yeah, yeah, I say that without Paul Robeson there
would not have been a BarackObama, because which seems
peculiar since they never metbut in his time Robeson was the
most influential artist of histime and he did what I try to do
I'm trying to do currently isto influence other artists, you

(01:09:55):
know, and he did so.
His number one mentee was noneother than the great Jamaican
Harry Belafonte and his bestfriend at the time and lifelong
best friend, sidney Poitier.
And when Bill BojanglesRobinson took Paul Rolson with
him because he was a NegroLeague millionaire, bill
Bojangles Robinson he saidlisten, branch Rickey needs to,

(01:10:18):
you know.
So I'm going to take Big Paulwith me, because Big Paul got
that voice and Big Paul willintellectually break down
whatever it is that I can, billPaul.
So he went there and he saidlisten, you need to get a black
kid in the major league becauseyou know we got guys that are
way better than the guys you gotright now playing, you know.
So we can't bring them all in.
We can't bring five, bring ten,bring three, bring two, we'll
bring one".

(01:10:39):
They decided they would bringJackie Robinson.
So Bill sent Paul to go talk toJackie and he came out here to
Pasadena, california, to get theson of Texas Louisiana slaves,
their grandson, to come jointhem.
So Jackie Robinson became amentee of Robeson as well, and

(01:11:00):
he taught them several things.
Among them, you know thateducation was the number one way
to advance in the society, thateducated societies do less
damage to their fellow men andhave a greater understanding and
their place in our sharedhumanity.
He also taught them that thecontinental African and the
African American were one people, and there's a reason why half
of Ghana looks like you.
Okay, reverend, because youknow you're from the Ashanti

(01:11:24):
tribe.

Speaker 1 (01:11:24):
Probably, I don't know if you know, have you done
that?
I have not.
I have not.

Speaker 2 (01:11:29):
But you're from the Ashanti tribe, so your head is
rounded the whole thing and youhave a joyful personality that
is instantaneously quick.
I have some of that, but I'm abit more deviant.
I'm Kenyan ancestry, my face isa little bit more in that
regard, and we're a littletaller and leaner.
Okay, you will muscle up fastenough, but they're things you

(01:11:54):
know.
It's like if I was a Maasai youwould see me really tall and
the whole thing.
The neck is a little bit longerSomali, the whole thing
Ethiopian.
So there are traitsNevertheless.
So Robeson told him that theAfrican and the continental
African were one people.
The third thing he taught himwas that every successful

(01:12:18):
African American has a culturaland moral obligation to try to
make life better for somebodyelse, particularly someone who
looks like them on the Africancontinent, to uplift our race.
So in 1959, his three mentees,sidney Poitier, belafonte and
Jack Robinson, started afoundation to pay for college
education for well-deservingkids on the African continent,
but first they had to find auniversity that would host them.

(01:12:39):
All of them said no, theycouldn't.
But our newest state was Hawaii, and Hawaii said, hey, we
haven't been part of Americalong enough to learn to hate
anybody.
We're the 50th state.
They're kind of brown, we'rekind of brown.
Hey, you can send them here.
So they decided we'll send themto Hawaii.
So we had to find a student.
So the three of them took off.
They started in West Africa,went through West Africa,

(01:13:00):
central Africa, all the way toEast Africa.
The requirements were you gotto speak fluent English, pass
the college entrance examinationand be a high school graduate.
They found 77 students in 18African nations and they brought
them all to University ofHawaii to study.
Among them was a brilliant kidfrom the mountainsides of Kenya,
a Muslim kid by the name ofBarack Hussein Obama.

(01:13:23):
He was brilliant in math andscience.
He studied global economics.
And Barack Hussein Obama.
That's how he got to Universityof Hawaii.
His second year there hestarted dating a white student
by the name of Anne Dunnell andthey had a baby.
They fell in love and peoplesay if I ain't any black, right,

(01:13:45):
he's from Africa, it's like,because it's 1959.
It's Hawaii, ain't no blackgirls here?
So leave him alone, leave himalone and they had a baby and he
named his firstborn son.
They got married right at firsttrimester and he named his
firstborn son after him, BarackHussein Obama.
And here he was born, in Africa, I mean in Hawaii, In Hawaii,

(01:14:08):
Okay, and that's how he gotthere.
Now, that unique set ofcircumstances, God was going to
take him.
Alaska has more black peoplethan Hawaii does, Because Alaska
had military connection as welland they just it's not as
expensive to live there.
Hawaii is very expensive,Nevertheless, that's where our

(01:14:31):
first black president ended up,coming from the state with the
least amount of black folks Tothis day.
Right now and I performed inHawaii several times it's one
and a half percent of blackfolks in Hawaii.
And so that was the connection.
And so, had Robeson not toldhis mentees that and suggested
they start this foundation to goall the way there, he wouldn't

(01:14:54):
have bought Obama's daddy tomeet his mom in Hawaii to make
love, get married and have ababy to create him.
And those unique set ofcircumstances is what did it?
You know and God just does notmake any junk the unique, the
turns that it takes.
You know what I mean.
It's just like you know, wefollow it.

Speaker 1 (01:15:12):
That's such a profound story.
It shows you how we areinterdependent and none of our
stories are our stories.
We are dependent on otherpeople, other circumstances,
other mentors and mentees and soon and so on.
And so it's just amazing,probably one of the most kept

(01:15:32):
secrets, well-kept secrets inmodern American history, just
not to say on top of that modernAfrican-American history, just
not on top of modernAfrican-American history.
You mentioned 1948.
You mentioned the migration ofback to Israel.
One of the hot topics today isthe
Palestinian-Israelite-Israelianconflict that is taking place, I

(01:15:55):
believe even on today.
There were some bodies found ofpossible hostages, some bodies
found of possible hostages.
Start with that history of howthis conflict even started, with
World War II and the moreCaucasian Israelites being
brought back to Israel this isyour land, palestine being there

(01:16:15):
at that point For a while,those Israelites having the same
military backing of those whowon World War II.
Just go into those nuances andmaybe give us your commentary on
what's taking place in theMiddle East today.

Speaker 2 (01:16:30):
Well, humbly, in my opinion, and I understand
it's—and I have not spent—I'mnot a scholar on that issue, the
whole thing but I do know in1948 that the state was created
by the United Kingdom andAmerica after World War II to
place Jews there and open it upto them, that anyone can come

(01:16:52):
there and create statehood.
But since Palestine was alreadythere—and I'm not saying the
Jews don't have a right to bethere, but it has to be a
two-state solution and it has tobe treated with some degree of
equity.
And when it comes in, and theyhave so much help from abroad
America and England and so muchmoney, like the $100 billion

(01:17:15):
that we're giving them and theirtwo people, and the amount of
foreign aid that they get everysingle year $15 billion, $30
billion, and it's 2 billionpeople it creates an inequity
and a sense of entitlement thattends to rob you of your
character over a period of time.

(01:17:37):
And so the thing is is this?
Is that I don't spend a lot oftime on that because, as an
African in America, we have ourown issues and I'm more
concerned with our issues thansomeone else's.
However, the thing is is this Ido know for a fact 38,000

(01:17:58):
children have been died sincethis conflict started seven
months ago.
38,000?
Yes, wow.
That is ethnic cleansing andremoving a generation, because
when they got there they werethe minority and they're trying
to fix that.

Speaker 1 (01:18:16):
When they got there, Israel was the minority.

Speaker 2 (01:18:18):
Right, the minority, and they're trying to balance
that out.
It becomes very hard to have atwo-state solution and to get
forgiveness from a people onceyou've killed so many of their

(01:18:40):
children, giving them more bombsagainst someone that nowthey're
fighting Hamas.
They say Israel created Hamasbecause they did not want to
deal with Yasser Arafat and thePalestinian Liberation Army.
They had an army, the PLA, thePalestinian Liberation Army, and

(01:19:01):
a leader in Yasser Arafat.
Israel helped through differentmechanisms, creating Hamas,
which was scattered and youdon't know who the leader is for
a reason, and now it's gone bad.
At the end of the day, god willstep in and try to help things
out.
My only concern is this thatAmerica, the West as well as

(01:19:28):
Jews, don't weaponize a EuropeanHolocaust in 1945 to justify a
Palestinian Holocaust today,because the world certainly

(01:19:53):
doesn't need any more hate in it.
They are not natural enemies.
They can live together.
They're the only people thatwant that stretch of land, it's
dusty.
It's not attractive.
I don't know anyone who sayslet's go there for our honeymoon

(01:20:15):
or to hang out, unless you'refrom there.
It's not Bahamas, it's not youknow.
But I'm just saying.
And in Iraq and all over theMiddle East, muslims and Jews
live together.
They have the same dietaryconstraints and similar
religious practices.
They are not natural enemies Tosay they're anti-Semitic.

(01:20:40):
They're both Semitic people.
So when you say a Semiticperson is being anti-Semitic
against another Semitic tribewhile you're stealing their land
, it's a delicate— what does itmean to be Semitic?

(01:21:01):
From the Middle East and fromthat area of the country to
where only Arabs and Muslimslive.
These are all the descendantsof Abraham, as are all nations
to some degree, and so to somedegree, all of the religions
have a right to be there.
Christians, muslims and Jews,all have sacred places there.

(01:21:23):
They should try to, but youcan't indiscriminately kill.
There's a school of thoughtthat says this was set up so
that they can make this move and, for once and for all, wipe
them out.
And if you say well, why wouldthey say that?

(01:21:46):
You say well?
Because it wasn't their Sabbath, october 7th, it was a Sunday,
their day off, everybody's home,their early to rise group.
Normally on a day if fivePalestinians get by that gate
guard gate from Gaza into Israel, that's considered a breach.

(01:22:06):
That five got through OnOctober 7th, on a Sunday morning
.
Over 300 apparently got through, went to a concert, killed a
bunch of people, went intopeople's homes and the kibbutz
and all those killed over athousand people, then videotaped

(01:22:27):
it and kidnapped over 200people and got all of them got
back safely.
Meanwhile I still can't get outof a Walmart with a loaf of
bread.
I'm going like God's name.
Did this happen?
Well, neither US nor Israelintelligence saw this coming.

(01:22:51):
Well, maybe you should stopcalling it intelligence.
Then I'm just saying, right,let's not call it that, okay.
Okay, because I'm like theydidn't get over 1,200 people
that got murdered.
So I don't know if theysacrificed them so they can kill

(01:23:15):
50,000 and destroy all of theirplaces and push them back, but
I'm just saying that all oftheir places and push them back.
But I'm just saying that?

Speaker 1 (01:23:22):
That's what you're saying.
That attack was allowed tohappen to legitimize the war
thereafter, and the reason whywe're doing this is because
we're retaliating from somethingthat they allowed to happen.
Just cause, just cause.
How do these 200 individualscome in and do all that without
any repercussion or recourse?

Speaker 2 (01:23:47):
And so that you could overreact.
It's the old in the ghetto, youknow, when he walks by, push
him into me.
There's like you're just goingto hit me like this.
And then you start fighting theguy because your buddy pushed
him into you.
So he said he hit me first.
So now I have a reason todefend myself.
So now, and you beat him todeath, Now he's in a hospital,
in the emergency room, andyou're like well, he did hit him

(01:24:10):
first.
Yeah, that's what everyone says.
Yeah, that's the case, that's,that's, that's Well they've been
because, listen, you're bombinghospitals, you're bombing
places, they're the whole thing.
Okay, here's the other thing isthis Then you're denying them
food.
You killed the aid workers thatwere coming in.
They're from another country,they're third-party humanitarian
workers.

(01:24:30):
You killed seven of them.
They're saying, like we wereclearly marked and we told you
we were coming.
You knew we weren't soldiers.
We have food, yet you blew usup.
Now here's my thing If theyhave, do you have 200 of my
hostages?
I know that if I don't give youfood, you're not going to be
while you're hungry, say I'mstarving, but here you eat my

(01:24:56):
hostage.
There's so many things thatjust I'm going like bombs don't
happen If you indiscriminatelybomb.
If you knew where your hostageswere, then go get them.
But if you indiscriminatelybomb, how do you know you're not
bombing where the hostages are?

Speaker 1 (01:25:09):
Yeah, bullets don't have a name.
Certainly bombs don't have anynames.

Speaker 2 (01:25:12):
There's just so many things that are there, but my
thing is this I don't think thatI'm going to solve a 60-year
dispute.

Speaker 1 (01:25:22):
I don't think that I'm going to solve a 60-year
dispute.

Speaker 2 (01:25:23):
Okay, a 70-year dispute, whatever.
But here's my thing is thisYou're not going to go away.
They're not going away and theywere there first or whatever,
but it doesn't matter.
You both have a right to bethere.
You both have a right to exist.
Why can't you figure that partof it out?
Because somehow you acceptedthat Germany didn't want you and

(01:25:47):
you let them have their way.
You accepted that Hungary andRussia and those people didn't
want you.
You allowed them to have theirway.
Then you impose yourself upon aweaker group of people who were
not paying attention at all andgo like what just happened.
And now you turn this year andyou move them to the work, and

(01:26:09):
so there's so much going on thatI think that you know that
along the way, someone has andshould have been done in the
seventies, when Clinton orwhoever it was, had them shake
hands, the SRR fight and say atsome point, you have to you know
it needs that region needs aNelson Mandela, it needs a
Mahana Gandhi, it needs that,that.

Speaker 1 (01:26:22):
That region needs a nelson mandela, needs a mahana
gandhi, it needs a marlon kingjr.
Exactly, but at some point.

Speaker 2 (01:26:27):
you have to be less arrogant and know that I'm not
going to be getting 100 billiondollars the second that war
starts from the, from my greatbig brother america.
They're going to cut me thisblank check 100 billion dollars
and then provide me airspace andthing to protect me, because
then you don't have a reason tonegotiate.
There was a time when twoChristian religions Catholics

(01:26:48):
and Protestants in Belfast,ireland and England, clashed and
I'm going like they're the samedamn religion.
They were blowing up eachother's churches and I'm going
like how is that possible?
You read from the same book.
It went on for 40 years.
They were killing each other'schildren.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:27:09):
Well, even though there's distinctions between
Catholic and Protestants, thatbattle wasn't about those
distinctions.
It wasn't about we'rejustification by faith alone and
you're by.
You know works and stuff likethat.
I didn't think they even went tochurch.
And you know that migration aswell we don't have time to get

(01:27:30):
into it also led to IrishAmericans and Italian Americans
coming to America and JewishAmericans coming to America
being second-class citizens likeAfrican Americans.
However, at some point themuniting America, being
second-class citizens likeAfrican-Americans.
However, at some point themuniting with what we would call
British Americans over here.
And when they became unitedwith them after their time of

(01:27:53):
persecution, they didn'tremember African-Americans who
helped them, let freedom ring.
These were the people that yousee.
You didn't just see white peoplemarching with King.
There was a certain sect ofwhite people Catholics, irish,
jewish people because they werealso being villainized and

(01:28:14):
outcast and once they got theirliberation, they became part of
some of them and there'soutliers to every group, but the
majority of them became part ofthe system themselves and
persecutors themselves, and Ithink that's a part of the
tension that you see, with a lotof African-American people

(01:28:37):
having empathy.
Sometimes that empathy is blindempathy, but empathy nonetheless
for Palestinians, because theyunderstand how that works as it
relates to being in power andnot having that same political
and military power as others,and how that could equate to
even though ideology wise, mostAfrican-Americans, even though

(01:28:59):
our skin is darker, mostAfrican-Americans, even though
our skin is darker, is liketheir skin is dark, like ours
Not as dark but darker, and yousee white people vitalizing
darker people.
Ideology wise Palestinians aretotally a big gap between
African-Americans and many ofthe university students who are

(01:29:22):
protesting for Palestine on thisissue would probably differ
with them as it relates toLGBTQIA+ and so on and so on,
religiously and so on.
So those factors areinteresting as well and makes it
more nuanced Right areinteresting as well and makes it
more nuanced.

Speaker 2 (01:29:42):
Right, you know, and, but like I say, I embrace
everyone's entitled to theirspace, but the thing is this
those distinctions don't lead toa loss of life.

Speaker 1 (01:29:55):
No, no, that's the problem, and the thing is over
there is that I'm going like?

Speaker 2 (01:30:01):
why are you starving their children while your
children eat?
Yeah, peace is the issue?
I think that biblical timesthat at some point there's going
to be retribution for your eviland that you're over.
You know you're sledgehammering.
You know it's like it was likethe baby kept crying so I
stabbed it because it wouldn'tshut up.
I'm going like now, what do youthink this baby's going to do?

(01:30:22):
Now it's bleeding.
So my whole thing is that, asthings go on, it's yeah, it is,
it's tremendously unfortunateand you have to.
But just like the Protestantand the Catholic figured it out,
now and now they look back onit with shame and go back, just
like South Africa right now,okay, uh, f mandela and all the

(01:30:43):
years old thing that at the endof the day, they still have
nothing and it didn't gainanything by it.
Just like you know, um, uh,when we were five percent of the
population outside of some, youknow, and they're, you know,
like I said, outliers and idiotsthat you know still come with
it's kanye west, differentthings that turn on the thing.
You look and you say, um, howcan you?

(01:31:05):
You know, because, uh, dr kingsaid something, you know, which
was similar to what the actingcoach said to me.
He said, uh, every evil bringswith it the seed of its own
destruction.
every evil brings the seed ofits own destruction, and it was
so profound because when I wentback to go back to the

(01:31:27):
conversation with the actingcoach, al Phan, he told me about
my discipline and when Godgives something to you, I take
something else away that youhave to work equally as hard as
it.
No one's getting a free passthat you still have to put into
work, ok, and every time yougain something.
Because at that time the watchthing was a big thing in New
York, the whole thing, the fakeRolexes and the whole thing,
right and so.

(01:31:47):
And I remembered one time, youknow, and he said why do you
always talk about my watch?
And he's like because you wearwatches that if you could, you
can't afford those.
And I'm like, so they'restealing your neighborhood?
Of course they do.
And I'm like why?
Because I want you to be better, because you're better, I want

(01:32:10):
you to lose sight of your gift.
Wow, and he's like you know,and so the watch, he's like you
know.
But he said anytime you stealsomething, whether you know it
or not, you lose something ofequal or greater value.

Speaker 1 (01:32:23):
Wow, that's a great place to end.
Sadly, we're out of time and wehave to bring you back to
continue this conversation.
We thank you so much forblessing us with your presence
and allowing us to dive intothese issues with you.
Learn more about yourself, moreabout the one man stage show.

(01:32:44):
You're more than that.
You have your book, that's outas well.
We want to promote that.
Promote where people can findyou, how they can reach you.
You need to bring this man toyour church, to your university,
to your school wherever, toyour church, to your university,
to your school, wherever thereis community gathering civil

(01:33:11):
gathering.

Speaker 2 (01:33:11):
Stoke of King Island needs to be there.
One man show and also the book.
This is the book the God StopsSmiling.
It's a novel, yes, it's a novel.
It's a story of love andfriendship and you know, and
about how, as you, a couple ofkids that went pro early and
they thought all their dreamscame true because they had the
money, and you know thehypocrisy of wealth and fame in

(01:33:33):
a world where you know.
Basically, you know, you thinkyou have everything it's a
beautiful story of and it'sgoing to someday be on one of
the streamers.
And so I have an autographedcopy here for a mentor, the
legendary Dr George Hurt.
The foreword is by my mentorand great friend who recently

(01:33:54):
passed away.
I'll be speaking at his funeralin a couple of weeks.
His memorial, Louis Gossett Jr,who grew up in Brooklyn, new
York, as I did, and, in additionto being on Broadway early,
played college basketball andwas Lou Gossett played well
enough to where the Knicksinvited him to camp the trial
for the Knicks when he got outof college.

(01:34:16):
But he had so many Broadwaythings going on.
But he's been wonderful to me.
When he was in I was in Ghana.
He had the ambassador send acar for me to pick me up and he
looked out for me all over theplace and he took the time to
write the forward to that bookthere for me, and so it's-.

Speaker 1 (01:34:30):
Can't wait to dive into this.
That's a menacing, you knowit's Please support Profane.

Speaker 2 (01:34:34):
It's available on Amazon and all your thing.
The God Stopped Smiling.
Stogie, kenyatta and I'm at theSanta Monica Playhouse on the
25th.
I'm on all your social mediaplatforms Stogie, s-t-o-g-i-e,
kenyatta, k-e-n-y-a-t-t-a and,god willing, hopefully sometime,

(01:34:54):
maybe hopefully Juneteenth Iwould love to be back at the
legendary Mount Sinai.
We have to set that up.
If not this year, next yearwe're going to make it a staple.

Speaker 1 (01:35:06):
That's a good staple program to have.
Thank you so much for tuning into Nuance Conversation.
Please look out for upcomingepisodes.
Please support us.
Find out more information onour platform, how you can
partner with this podcast,nuance Conversations, where we
try to be honest, open andtransparent.

(01:35:28):
Hot conversations, honest, openand transparent as we talk
about religion, politics, socialnorms and pop culture.
God bless you.

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