February 7, 2024 • 34 mins
When a devastating hurricane paves the way for a groundbreaking underwater art project, it's a story worth holding your breath for. Join me as I sit down with Jason DeCaires Taylor, the creative force behind Grenada's underwater sculpture museum, as we navigate the waters of his artistic journey and the birth of a submerged marvel. Our conversation dives into the welcoming embrace of the Grenadian community that supported Jason's vision and the stark contrasts he's experienced with creative endeavors in the UK. Jason's unwavering dedication to art and marine conservation emerges as a beacon for those navigating the intersection of culture, nature, and artistry.
Submerging into Jason's world, we uncover the serenity and complexities of sculpting below the surface. Recalling my own university days and their indelible mark on my work, I share the intricate process of site selection, installation, and the evolution of sculptures as they become one with the marine environment. The spice mass carnival of Grenada springs to life underwater through Jason's latest installation, a vibrant tribute to the island's culture, demonstrating the dynamic interplay between his creations and their aquatic canvas.
We round off our exploration by tracing the currents that shaped Jason's path from a childhood steeped in seaside adventures to the accolades of National Geographic recognition. It's a tale of parental encouragement, the struggle for artistic survival, and the seizing of opportunities that might never come knocking again. Our discussion stands as a clarion call for artists and dreamers to act now—because the most opportune moment to dive into your passions is the one you're in right now.
Thanks for listening to Nutmeg Nation - I would like to thank my Editor Sean for helping with the audio of show, thanks to my Designer Yim for creating the logo and images for the show and thanks to my Guests!
Nutmeg Nation- Listen, learn and be apart of Grenada!
https://www.Nutmegnation.buzzsprout.com
https://www.facebook.com/Diivaontheradio/
https://www.instagram.com/diivaontheradio/
https://www.tiktok.com/diivaontheradio/
https://twitter.com/diivaontheradio
Email us at divaontheradio@gmail.com
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
This is Nutmeg Nation .
I have with me a very specialguest.
I'm excited to speak to himbecause he is the one person who
has created a sculpture museumin Grenada and he's added to it.
It's one of NationalGeographic's 25 Wonders of the
(00:22):
World, which is absolutelyamazing.
I have with me Jason DeCary'sTaylor.
Hi, jason, hi, how are you?
I'm fine, how are you?
Yeah, very well, thanks, and Isee that we are a few hours
apart here in the UK.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
Yes, that's right.
I'm in the southeast of Englandin my studio at the moment.
Speaker 1 (00:43):
Oh, wow.
So how's the studio looking?
Is it messy?
Speaker 2 (00:47):
It's always a little bit messy, kind of goes through
a period of chaos and then wekind of sorted it all out and
the sculptures get moved out,and then it kind of gets reset
and we go again.
But, yeah, at the moment it'slooking good.
Yeah, we're just embarking on anew project, so, yeah, we have
(01:08):
a bit of floor space available.
Speaker 1 (01:10):
Oh wow, so you're on to another project.
So before we start to thatproject, I just want to know you
were born in the UK as well,you grew up there, or tell me a
little bit about Jason.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
Yes, I was born in the UK.
My mother is Guyanese and shemoved over from Guiana in the
early 20s to study in England.
I met my father, who's English,and then I sort of grew up here
.
But we were quite fortunatethat my parents would move
around the world.
There were both Englishteachers, and so as a family we
(01:43):
moved to all these differentplaces in Malaysia and the
Caribbean and then Spain.
So, yeah, we sort of livedaround, and likewise in my work
I've moved my studios around todifferent parts of the world,
but at the moment I've sort ofreturned back home and set up a
base here.
Speaker 1 (02:03):
So when you say the UK, are we talking London,
England, or I think it's likethey say the UK, but United
Kingdom?
Where in the United Kingdom?
Speaker 2 (02:14):
In the Southeast, so just South London, about 60
miles.
Speaker 1 (02:18):
Okay, the show is about Grenada and the culture
and everything like that.
So you did create the firstwater park in 2006.
What was the process like?
What made you decide to startyour journey in Grenada?
Speaker 2 (02:35):
I think it was just a sort of it was the opportunity
and the circumstances that ledto me creating this park.
I mean, I studied sculpture fora long time in London.
I trained as a scuba diver,worked in sort of set design and
logistics for some time andactually got a job in Grenada
(02:59):
teaching diving.
Just after Hurricane Ivan and Iwas working there and I kind of
when I was at art college, Ialways had this idea that I
wanted to make differentsculptions, the lations you know
, in various sort of naturalsettings and I was always
fascinated by doing itunderwater but never really had
the opportunity.
But after a while, when I wasliving in Grenada, I saw that
(03:22):
there was some you know sitesthat it would really benefit
doing something like this, andso I just sort of said about it
and I, you know, went to thegovernment and asked permission
and raise some funds andselected a site that had been
damaged by the hurricane so thatif we added anything you know
in that site it would actuallyattract people to it and it
(03:45):
would attract fish and touristsand, you know, hopefully
regenerate it.
And that's really sort of howit all began and I kind of, you
know, started slowly and it'sreally sort of progressed over
the years.
Speaker 1 (03:56):
Yeah, it's absolutely amazing.
I mean, I've looked at themuseums that you have around the
world.
It's quite a resume that youhave, I think, to go over
everything that you've done.
It would be forever in themaking, but you have a lot of
accolades and I guess yourparents must be really proud of
everything that you've shown theworld, especially the
underwater world, you know, forpeople who like scuba diving, I
(04:19):
think so.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely.
What was it about Grenada thatyou liked?
I mean, a lot of people haven'tbeen to Grenada and I feel like
it's a very small island, butit's a very friendly place and
it's beautiful.
What was it like while you wereteaching there?
Speaker 2 (04:37):
Like I said, I've lived in a lot of places and you
know, grenada is a place thatwas really special to me and I
think if I hadn't have started,if I started it somewhere else,
you know, it would have never,never have happened.
It was definitely.
You know, obviously the watersare beautiful and the sea and
(04:58):
the island itself is incrediblyunique, but it was really the
people that sort of were theones that offered encouragement
and were warm and were open andI think, ultimately gave you a
sense of freedom to explore someof these ideas that you know I
probably wouldn't have done inother places.
You know, certainly I doprojects here in the UK and
(05:21):
there's so many barriers thatare put up that, you know, if I
started I would have just beenput off, you know, and even now
I get frustrated trying toimplement projects where there's
so many negative people whooppose them.
But I was quite lucky inGrenada, you know, I was
afforded that freedom.
Speaker 1 (05:39):
Are you able to talk about some of the difficulties
that you have like in the UK orsome of the challenges that you
have to go through when you arestarting a project or you have
an idea?
Speaker 2 (05:50):
Oh, how long's your podcast.
Speaker 1 (05:54):
Oh, you know what, if this is going to be interesting
, we will talk about it.
You know, I think it'simportant for people to know,
because it's like you're talkingabout a project that's
underwater, or just any idea ingeneral, and the process is not
always so easy and that's why,you know, sometimes it takes
people years right create anidea to get it going.
(06:17):
It's not just like, oh yeah, Ihave.
I get this person like I mean,yeah, you have your team, but
that's just the surface, right.
Speaker 2 (06:25):
Oh for sure, I mean, even on a basic level.
So, you know, making objectsfor an underwater space, you
know, is very, very different tomaking sculptures on land.
You know the materials have tobe of a certain type, you know
they can't pollute obviously,the sea in any way.
They have to be something thatis extremely resilient, that is,
(06:47):
you know, transportable andultimately, you know, provides a
home for marine life.
So there's loads of researchand challenges trying to design
pieces that are heavy enough tojust sit on the sea floor.
Obviously, when you put anobject in salt water it becomes
lighter.
And in the Caribbean there'slots of hurricanes and storms,
(07:08):
so you need to make works thatare not going to get, you know,
dislodged or moved.
So, yeah, it's making worksextremely heavy in the water but
not so heavy on land that youcan't lift them up or transport
them.
That's the sort of basic stuffof just making the pieces.
And then you've also, you know,got the sort of difficulty of
(07:29):
permitting.
So you have lots of studies andsurveys and consultations and,
yeah, legislation to follow toactually be allowed to place
sculptures in the sea.
And then you've got, you know,I think, working in any sort of
public space.
You know, and you probablypeople are very aware of this.
You know from social media, butyou know, whenever you're
(07:51):
working in a public arena, youknow there's lots of opinions
and groups and different partiesthat you know you need to try
to satisfy as much as you can,and so that can be a challenge,
because we obviously all don'tsee the world, you know, from
the same viewpoint.
Speaker 1 (08:07):
So, based on what you're saying, do you also have
a science background?
It sounds to me like it's notjust creating the sculptures,
just also knowing if this isgoing to work underwater, like
just the spatial awareness andyour underwater.
So obviously, the weight of thesculpture, and I mean even for
the first one you created here.
Am I saying it right, molineer?
(08:29):
Molineer, yeah, Molineerunderwater sculpture museum the
first one that you did, ofcourse and there's a lot of
works.
I've only looked at some ofthem.
It's absolutely beautiful.
About 75 works cover like 800square meters.
How long did that take you?
Speaker 2 (08:45):
I think it took me a couple of years.
I think it was about two, maybe, yeah, two years.
I was travelling back to the UKfor additional work to help
fund it and so, yeah, I think Iused to work in the UK for three
months and then returned toGrenada for three months and my
partner lived there and was atthe university there.
So, yeah, it was definitely alot of work and I didn't have
(09:08):
the same resources, obviously,that I employ now, and so
everything was kind of done byhand.
We would float sculptures outfrom the shoreline and I would
spend two weeks underwaterbolting them all together and
connecting them, and there wasdefinitely a lot more hands on.
But then I look back on it nowand actually it was some of the
(09:30):
most fun and exciting parts ofit.
Now I spend more time workingon engineering drawings or
permitting applications and I dosort of with the hands on
working in the seaside.
Speaker 1 (09:44):
You said it was exciting the whole process.
I guess because it was morehands on.
What was exciting about it?
Speaker 2 (09:50):
Art for me is all about exploration, and so I've
always sort of explored the seaas a diver.
But now I sort of was able toexplore it through my art.
So as I place things underwaterI could watch them transition
and change colour and growdifferent forms and have
(10:10):
different corals and sponges andalgae and all these different
transformations happening.
So it was really exciting tosee how they respond.
I wasn't quite sure, so eachtime I would slightly modify the
designs.
At the beginning I did thingsvery flat and close to the
seabed and as I got moreconfident and more able with the
(10:34):
technique, I was able to standthings up and make them a bit
more elevated, and as soon asyou elevated them they got more
of the nutrient rich current sothey really started to grow a
lot more.
But yeah, it was reallyfascinating to see and I also
probably I learned a lot in thatfirst stage and I teamed up
with an artificial reef companythat also gave me a lot of
(10:57):
advice on the best techniques touse.
But yeah, it was fascinatingseeing all the changes.
Speaker 1 (11:02):
So it was kind of like a work in progress, like
you were learning as you werecreating.
Speaker 2 (11:08):
You know I think I'm always learning Every project.
You know I start there's.
You know it's always.
You know very differentconditions and different
cultures and differentenvironments.
And yeah, so it's.
I don't think you ever getcomplacent where it's always the
same.
It's always a learning curve.
Speaker 1 (11:28):
And in your background you went to
university for sculpture design,or so you went to London
Institute of Arts in 98 and youhave a BA in sculpture.
So what exactly did you learnwhile you were there?
Speaker 2 (11:43):
Oh, lots of things.
I mean I specialized in casting.
I used to do a lot of lifecasting, body casting, yeah,
mold making, armatures.
You know all about public artand context and how that changes
.
So yeah, no, no, it was.
It was really really good, Iwas really fortunate experience.
(12:05):
You know, I look back on it nowand I sort of didn't appreciate
it.
You know, being 19, 20, I, youknow I didn't realize what an
amazing opportunity it was.
And I kind of look back now andthink, god, if I could go back
to university, it'd beincredible, you know, would you
study the same thing if you wentback.
Yeah, probably it sounds like adream now, but you know you just
(12:27):
used to go into this hugecollege with this quite
fortunate because it was.
It had some very interestingtutors and there was.
They had a very differentapproach to things and you know
I'm always going to go in andyou were banned from having any
any desks or chairs.
Sitting on the floor, becausethey didn't want you to think on
a desktop scale.
(12:48):
They wanted you to think on adifferent scale.
Speaker 1 (12:52):
What does that mean on a different scale?
Speaker 2 (12:54):
Well, you start on the floor, you get on a ladder.
You look at it from a differentperspective, as was.
Every student's work was verydifferent.
You could say that hadinfluenced me.
Now, working underwater is on avery different scale to gallery
work.
I have to fill huge spaces andthe viewing is completely
(13:18):
different.
You walk around the seabed,looking them at eye level, you
float above them, you swimaround them.
The areas that I need to coverfor it to be a meaningful
experience is really huge.
Speaker 1 (13:32):
The one thing that's amazing.
You are working underwater andbeing a scuba diver in order to
do this kind of work.
What is it like underwater?
For those that have never beenI've never been underwater
what's it like doing workunderwater?
Speaker 2 (13:48):
Completely different, much harder, Definitely much
harder.
You got to plan it really well,make sure you have everything
to hand.
Just pre-planned it all andworked down your head exactly
what's going to take place,because you can't really
improvise or change your plan.
Speaker 1 (14:08):
You have to plan it.
The experience itself do youenjoy?
I mean, you must enjoy workingunderwater, obviously, but I
want to know what does it feellike you're underwater?
It's not like going swimming,right.
Speaker 2 (14:19):
No, it's definitely not like swimming.
Speaker 1 (14:21):
No, it's not.
What I want to know is thefeeling.
What does it feel like whenyou're in that environment and
planning where the sculptures goand the whole process, having
your team send you the nextsculpture and bringing it down?
What does it feel like in termsof gravitational pull?
What is the experience that youget when you're there?
Speaker 2 (14:43):
There's many different phases to what I do
underwater.
First of all, they'll just bechoosing the right location.
That's all about taking in theatmosphere, looking at the
sediment type, visualizing howthe piece will fit within the
(15:04):
topography of what's down there.
That's a really nice experience.
I mean, first of all, beingunderwater, you really obviously
have to control your breathing.
You're very conscious that youhave to have a very regular
breaths and very controlledbreaths.
Your movements have to be muchless frenetic than when you're
(15:26):
on land.
I think you instantly feelcalmer and feel more
clear-headed.
There's that first part, whichis quite interesting than the
actual installation.
That's a very differentexperience where, first of all,
you're really conscious ofsafety, so you're really aware
of where you are in the water.
(15:47):
There's not a sculpture that'sabove your head, coming down on
top of you.
You're not tangled up in anyway or that.
It's safe and in control.
So that's generally quitestressful, but there's certainly
a lot of pressure on it becauseyou've also hired a lot of
people and a lot of logisticsand boats and it's something
(16:09):
that can only be done when theweather's good, basically.
So yeah, that's quitepressurized that part.
And then later on, once that'sdone, there's usually the fixing
stage of it.
So it's putting in the anchorparts and checking the
composition of it, checkingthings at the level, and I tend
(16:29):
to do a lot of that.
I do really enjoy beingunderwater, it's just the sound
is completely different, thelight is different, it's very,
very peaceful, but it's also ona clock, so you've only got a
certain amount of air that willlast you an hour and a half, two
hours.
You're also absorbing nitrogenand you've got a limit to how
(16:55):
long you can spend under.
So, yeah, it's not completelycarefree, but I've done it quite
a while now, so it's sort ofquite late.
Speaker 1 (17:05):
Yeah, you're a veteran now.
I mean, these are all thecomponents that people don't
necessarily think about.
I mean, if I were to go underthere, I'm just like in awe of
all the sculptures and howamazing they look, and just like
the whole.
It's a different world, youknow, when you think about it.
And so I think the next thingthat we need to discuss is the
(17:26):
newest installation that you'veadded in Grenada, which is
amazing because it's devoted tospice mass, and the sculptures
that you created for the newestedition have to do with an event
that happens every year inGrenada.
It's very popular, it's one oftheir biggest tourist
attractions, right?
And so what was the inspirationbehind the new installation
(17:51):
that you created last year?
Speaker 2 (17:53):
We just wanted to make something that was
incredibly unique to Grenada.
We wanted to have images andiconography of things that can
only be found on the island ofGrenada.
Carnival has such crediblestories and such incredible
masqueraders that we thought itwould be really good to capture,
(18:13):
and so, yes, I worked with somelocal artists and we designed
these five different charactersand decorated them all
differently with these newunderwater paints.
And, yes, it's going to bereally interesting to see how
they evolve.
Speaker 1 (18:29):
You said how they evolve, like the sculptures
change over time.
Speaker 2 (18:34):
Oh, yes, of course.
Yes, We've got some of thefeathers on the pretty mast
dancer.
We've got the horns on thejab-jabs.
All of these things are goingto start to heavily be colonized
by sponges and corals andthings.
So, yes, it's going to lookvery different each year.
Speaker 1 (18:52):
As far as sculpture design is concerned, you say you
have a team.
Did someone help you create thedesign for the sculptures or do
you draw them?
You're mainly your designs.
Are you've done them yourselfor is it like you have someone
that helps you when you'recreating?
Speaker 2 (19:09):
It depends, but most of the time mostly designs by
myself.
This particular installation,so this coral carnival that was
in collaboration with a localdesigner and some local artists.
So together we worked out, youknow, each of the characters,
the correct type of costumes andobjects they were holding and
(19:32):
the different designs.
And that's probably a littlebit different to how I normally
work.
You know, I come up with aconcept from the beginning to
the end.
Speaker 1 (19:40):
What was that like?
Having someone else contributeto your creation?
Speaker 2 (19:45):
To be honest, you know, I'm always sort of working
with the underwater world,which is in itself is, you know,
has its own artists that youknow decorate and change and
more things.
So I'm kind of used to sort ofletting go a little bit of a
control anyway, and it was anice experience for sure.
Speaker 1 (20:04):
So you'd created 25 stylized sculptures.
Do you have a favorite?
Speaker 2 (20:09):
It depends.
I mean, each one of them wasalso modeled on a local Canadian
person and the model I used forone of them, the Wild Indian
sculpture, I just really likedthe way he came out.
He's had a really Stolic, proudexpression and, yeah, I kind of
liked how that came out.
(20:29):
The jab jab was quiteinteresting, you know.
Again, the model was reallygood and the form with the snake
and with the horns, yeah, had areally good silhouette
underwater, you know, reallyinvited people to come and find
out more and ask questions.
Speaker 1 (20:46):
This one is kind of I think it's cool, the one where
he's sitting and he's typing onthe typewriter.
Speaker 2 (20:54):
Yeah, that was one of the first sculptures that I
actually produced when I firststarted, called the Lost
Correspondent, oh wow.
And when I first made it I madeit from a type of metal that
didn't last a lot very longunderwater, so it actually
started to degrade over time,and obviously since then I've
(21:14):
upgraded my techniques a lot andso actually revamped that
sculpture and recast elements ofit.
Speaker 1 (21:20):
Like you said, they change over time.
Like every year the changes,and so it will be interesting to
see what the coral carnivallooks like in a few years from
now, like how the sculpture willlook and how much coral will be
there, and like what attractsit, right, because I mean,
obviously it's underwater and sothe composition doesn't stay
the same, right?
Speaker 2 (21:41):
No, it changes.
It's interesting talking aboutthat first piece as well, the
Lost Correspondent.
I think that was the piece thatreally sort of ignited my
imagination and made that piecekind of saw it.
I saw this desk and I saw thiskind of right and I saw the
space that it would work and itwas like this sort of corridor
(22:03):
underwater that opened up intothis little clear opening which
had amazing white sand and sortof some beams coming through and
there was kind of coralsgrowing up walls on the side of
it and I just sort of thought ofhim in this space, you know,
and I made it and installed itand it kind of instantly worked.
And just, you know, on land itkind of felt meaningless, but
(22:28):
just putting it underwater waswhat gave it this sense of
mystery.
It wasn't entirely, you know,was it a sort of modern art
experience?
Was it an archaeologicalexperience?
You know who were we, wherewere we going?
No-transcript asked all thesedifferent questions which you
(22:49):
didn't have on land.
Speaker 1 (22:50):
I guess it's one of those things where you're
getting it inspired.
Obviously, the second additionto the underwater museum is more
to do with carnival itself, butthe first one.
What was the meaning behindthat?
Speaker 2 (23:06):
Because obviously that's your claim to fame.
There were lots of differentsculptures in that collection.
In the first work, the mostwell-known is this piece called
Forcissitudes, which is a ringof children.
Speaker 1 (23:19):
Yes, that's one of my favorites.
I love that.
Speaker 2 (23:22):
That was one of the first pieces, part of the first
set that I made in the early2000s, and again it was cast
from children on the island andit was put near this white patch
of sand that had this reallynice current that came through
it and I wanted to show howchildren absorb and change and
(23:46):
adapt to their environment andtheir situations and they grow
on the nutrition that they have,and so that was quite
interesting.
Each different children grew atdifferent rates and changed in
different ways and some hadincredible big sort of pink
sponges that came out in everydirection and others had a sort
(24:07):
of white fur that came out andothers had a kind of golden fire
coral that went up their legsand arms.
So yeah, that was one of thefirst pieces and kind of
captures people's imaginations.
Speaker 1 (24:18):
Someone described it as something out of a Stephen
King novel.
Speaker 2 (24:23):
Well, it's interesting.
I mean, that particular piece,it's been so many different
people have interpreted it indifferent ways, and some people
have looked at it from a scarypoint of view and they see that
this people underwater hasconnected to drowning.
There's been a lot of peoplethat have also connected it to
(24:46):
people that have died during themiddle passage, and so there's
other people that have thoughtabout it as a coral reef and and
a diving experience, andchildren that are changing,
other people that see as a big,real sense of unity and
connection.
So yeah, for me I think that'sthe whole sort of reason for art
(25:09):
, is it?
It evokes a different responsefrom each viewer.
Speaker 1 (25:14):
Art is always interpretive and you've done so
much all over the world, likeyou know Grenada, mexico,
bahamas, the UK, australia.
How come you haven't gottenanything here in Canada?
Speaker 2 (25:29):
I would love to do something in Canada.
Definitely I did.
We did have a project at onepoint, working in a river, which
was which is quite exciting,but unfortunately it didn't
happen in the end.
But it's the same in America.
I also haven't got any worksthere because the permitting is
pretty stringent and takes along time.
Speaker 1 (25:48):
Well, I hope you do it, jason, you know your work is
beautiful Because of socialmedia.
I think it kind of ignited theart world, especially because
there's this one group that youwork with.
I don't know if you necessarilywork, collaborate with them,
necessarily, but they're theones that run coordinate the
scuba diving part of theunderwater museum.
(26:11):
You know, they're the ones thattrain people on how to scuba
dive and they have a wholethat's a whole different thing
altogether, but that's part ofthe whole experience is going
underwater and scuba diving toget there and learning how to do
that if you've never done itbefore.
So where I'm going with this isthat because of them, the
social media, like theirFacebook and the Instagram I was
(26:33):
just like, wow, this is soamazing because they've done a
lot of videos, like many videos,and I'm like you know, for me,
I'm not really a big swimmer,but it's one of those things
where I feel like when I go backhome to Grenada to visit that I
would consider doing thatbecause it's so beautiful.
Why did you get into sculpturedesign?
I?
Speaker 2 (26:51):
don't know.
I think I was, you know, always.
I was always into, into art andI think it was just probably
the thing I was best at thatgame.
Naturally, yeah, you know, Iwas a bit of a graffiti artist
when I was young and so I wasalways either painting or making
or, you know, creatingsomething.
So it was really, yeah, quite akind of natural progression.
Speaker 1 (27:14):
Did you ever get in trouble for doing some of that
graffiti?
Speaker 2 (27:17):
I did in the beginning yeah, yeah, but again
it was working outside in apublic space.
Again I sort of look back onsome of the things I've done in
my life and they always feed ininto what I've made in some way.
(27:38):
Well, at the time I neverreally realized, but all the
experiences you have, they allobviously sort of shape you and
they all become relevant.
Everything you do is relevant.
It all kind of works out.
Speaker 1 (27:52):
Yeah, it's your history, it's a part of who you
are, because both your parentsare teachers.
So what was that like?
Do you feel like they kind ofhelped you to get to that point
when you chose your specialty inuniversity?
That's not the typical thingthat people study in school.
Speaker 2 (28:10):
I'm very fortunate.
They're very open parents andthey afforded me a lot of
freedom.
They never dictated what Ishould do or how I should do it.
They took me around the worldand let me explore, have lots of
different experiences, and I'mvery lucky to have that.
Speaker 1 (28:29):
And what's one of the memories that you have that
just stays with you now.
Speaker 2 (28:34):
I mean, they're the ones that introduced me to this
sort of underwater world.
I lived in Malaysia when I wasa kid and every weekend we'd go
snorkeling and swimming and Igot to see incredible things
when I was like seven years old,wow.
So yeah, they definitelyplanted the seed.
Speaker 1 (28:52):
They did.
I was just talking about thiswith someone, about your brain,
the way you are, we as a humanrace, the things that you do
when you're younger lead thepath to your future.
They planted the seed, and thatwas something that was a
highlight in your life, and sothat's probably helped you
(29:13):
decide what your career would belike, and the fact that they
let you have that freedom to doso, which is the most important
thing, because, as an artist,they always say you know,
artists are starving becauseit's a passion.
It doesn't pay the bills.
I talked to someone the otherday.
She was telling me like herhusband is an engineer, but his
(29:33):
passion is comedy.
He has a podcast and herparents have taught her that you
can't live off of your passions.
You have to have something else, and so, with you, did you have
something to back up on, orhave this?
You just decided that this iswhat you're going to devote your
life to.
Speaker 2 (29:51):
You know, as part of the conflict that I had, you
know, when I finished artcollege, you know, I became
super disillusioned by theopportunities that were out
there, you know, and working outhow to pay your rent and do
anything in your life, it wasreally, really demoralising, you
know, and it still is in someways.
(30:14):
It's still really tough, youknow, it's such a competitive
space the arts and there's solittle resources to go around
that, yes, it's still prettyhard.
And so after I graduated, I didlots of other different jobs,
you know, for probably like 10years, 12 years.
But it was only in sort of whenI was in Grenada that I thought
(30:36):
, actually I'm going to dosomething that, you know, I feel
passionate and interested in,and I didn't give it along, you
know, I just thought this isgoing to be, you know, a couple
years and an experimentation.
I didn't have a kind of plan ofwhere it end up and it still
probably took me 10 years beforeI started getting paid for it
(31:01):
properly, you know.
You know.
Speaker 1 (31:03):
And no one knows that .
You know what I mean.
That's the thing, like whenyou're an artist and like you're
doing all this stuff, no oneknows, like, what the journey is
like getting there.
So obviously you were gettingfunding and doing other things
to pay the bills, right yeah?
Speaker 2 (31:17):
definitely, yeah, for the first five years definitely
, I was having to sort of do youknow other jobs to fund it.
Then after five years I wasprobably just sort of making
enough to survive from it.
And yeah, it takes a while.
And even now sort of you knowhow many years I mean 20 years
in I get a lot of you know,requests for different projects,
(31:37):
but some stumps still sort offall by the wayside.
It's definitely a lot easier.
It's a difficult space, youknow the arts is.
You know there's a very thinpercentage of the population
that can make a good living fromit.
Speaker 1 (31:52):
It's just like amazing what you've done and
what you've created, and I hopethat this episode inspires more
people around the world to go toGrenada.
I hope that it will inspire ormotivate them to go and see what
you've created, because it'samazing, right, and that what
(32:15):
you've done and the fact that itis considered the first, your
first exhibit, the one we did in2006, one of the 25 wonders of
the world to be at the height,to have that as one of your
accolades Like.
What did it feel when theyactually said like this is
National Geographic named itthat.
What was that like?
Speaker 2 (32:36):
Oh, I mean, yeah, it was obviously, you know,
incredible and I was quitestunned.
And at the same time, they alsolisted some of the other
attractions.
There was a few little ones onthere, like the Himalayas and
the Great Wall of China.
I was like it, definitely notquite as impressive as those.
So but yeah, no, no, it's greatto be recognized.
(32:59):
In fact, actually yesterdaythey just also named Grenada one
of the top 20 culturaldestinations of 2024.
Speaker 1 (33:07):
Well, look at that, you know, it's amazing For those
who are artists, and sometimesyou get discouraged.
What do you say to them?
You just got to do what ismeaningful for yourself.
Speaker 2 (33:18):
You want to show on this planet and to be trapped
into something that is justabout survival.
It's definitely got to followyour passion and do something
that's meaningful for you.
Speaker 1 (33:27):
You know what, jason?
It always comes back.
Even for me this idea was.
I thought about it when Igraduated from college.
I just didn't start it and then, when the world changed, the
pandemic I'm like I have timenow I might as well do it.
I think there's more excuses,because the thing that we always
I'll do it tomorrow or whenthings are better there's never
(33:49):
going to be a better time, youknow.
Speaker 2 (33:51):
so that's true I think there's also like a really
there's a real balance in yourage as well.
You know, when you're young andin your 20s and you have the
energy and the sort of drive toreally do exciting things, you
know, you sort of put it offmaybe.
I think I'll do it later on inlife, you usually have lots of
(34:13):
commitments and responsibilitiesand you don't have the same
energy you had.
So I think it's definitelyfoolish to wait.
You really just have to begin.
Speaker 1 (34:24):
Just start the process.
Yeah, this is amazing.
I'm Carleen.
This is Not Magnation withJason DeCarris Taylor.
Thank you so much, jason, it'sbeen a pleasure.
This is Nutmeg Nation .
I have with me a very specialguest.
I'm excited to speak to himbecause he is the one person who
has created a sculpture museumin Grenada and he's added to it.
It's one of NationalGeographic's 25 Wonders of the
(00:22):
World, which is absolutelyamazing.
I have with me Jason DeCary'sTaylor.
Hi, jason, hi, how are you?
I'm fine, how are you?
Yeah, very well, thanks, and Isee that we are a few hours
apart here in the UK.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
Yes, that's right.
I'm in the southeast of Englandin my studio at the moment.
Speaker 1 (00:43):
Oh, wow.
So how's the studio looking?
Is it messy?
Speaker 2 (00:47):
It's always a little bit messy, kind of goes through
a period of chaos and then wekind of sorted it all out and
the sculptures get moved out,and then it kind of gets reset
and we go again.
But, yeah, at the moment it'slooking good.
Yeah, we're just embarking on anew project, so, yeah, we have
(01:08):
a bit of floor space available.
Speaker 1 (01:10):
Oh wow, so you're on to another project.
So before we start to thatproject, I just want to know you
were born in the UK as well,you grew up there, or tell me a
little bit about Jason.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
Yes, I was born in the UK.
My mother is Guyanese and shemoved over from Guiana in the
early 20s to study in England.
I met my father, who's English,and then I sort of grew up here
.
But we were quite fortunatethat my parents would move
around the world.
There were both Englishteachers, and so as a family we
(01:43):
moved to all these differentplaces in Malaysia and the
Caribbean and then Spain.
So, yeah, we sort of livedaround, and likewise in my work
I've moved my studios around todifferent parts of the world,
but at the moment I've sort ofreturned back home and set up a
base here.
Speaker 1 (02:03):
So when you say the UK, are we talking London,
England, or I think it's likethey say the UK, but United
Kingdom?
Where in the United Kingdom?
Speaker 2 (02:14):
In the Southeast, so just South London, about 60
miles.
Speaker 1 (02:18):
Okay, the show is about Grenada and the culture
and everything like that.
So you did create the firstwater park in 2006.
What was the process like?
What made you decide to startyour journey in Grenada?
Speaker 2 (02:35):
I think it was just a sort of it was the opportunity
and the circumstances that ledto me creating this park.
I mean, I studied sculpture fora long time in London.
I trained as a scuba diver,worked in sort of set design and
logistics for some time andactually got a job in Grenada
(02:59):
teaching diving.
Just after Hurricane Ivan and Iwas working there and I kind of
when I was at art college, Ialways had this idea that I
wanted to make differentsculptions, the lations you know
, in various sort of naturalsettings and I was always
fascinated by doing itunderwater but never really had
the opportunity.
But after a while, when I wasliving in Grenada, I saw that
(03:22):
there was some you know sitesthat it would really benefit
doing something like this, andso I just sort of said about it
and I, you know, went to thegovernment and asked permission
and raise some funds andselected a site that had been
damaged by the hurricane so thatif we added anything you know
in that site it would actuallyattract people to it and it
(03:45):
would attract fish and touristsand, you know, hopefully
regenerate it.
And that's really sort of howit all began and I kind of, you
know, started slowly and it'sreally sort of progressed over
the years.
Speaker 1 (03:56):
Yeah, it's absolutely amazing.
I mean, I've looked at themuseums that you have around the
world.
It's quite a resume that youhave, I think, to go over
everything that you've done.
It would be forever in themaking, but you have a lot of
accolades and I guess yourparents must be really proud of
everything that you've shown theworld, especially the
underwater world, you know, forpeople who like scuba diving, I
(04:19):
think so.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely.
What was it about Grenada thatyou liked?
I mean, a lot of people haven'tbeen to Grenada and I feel like
it's a very small island, butit's a very friendly place and
it's beautiful.
What was it like while you wereteaching there?
Speaker 2 (04:37):
Like I said, I've lived in a lot of places and you
know, grenada is a place thatwas really special to me and I
think if I hadn't have started,if I started it somewhere else,
you know, it would have never,never have happened.
It was definitely.
You know, obviously the watersare beautiful and the sea and
(04:58):
the island itself is incrediblyunique, but it was really the
people that sort of were theones that offered encouragement
and were warm and were open andI think, ultimately gave you a
sense of freedom to explore someof these ideas that you know I
probably wouldn't have done inother places.
You know, certainly I doprojects here in the UK and
(05:21):
there's so many barriers thatare put up that, you know, if I
started I would have just beenput off, you know, and even now
I get frustrated trying toimplement projects where there's
so many negative people whooppose them.
But I was quite lucky inGrenada, you know, I was
afforded that freedom.
Speaker 1 (05:39):
Are you able to talk about some of the difficulties
that you have like in the UK orsome of the challenges that you
have to go through when you arestarting a project or you have
an idea?
Speaker 2 (05:50):
Oh, how long's your podcast.
Speaker 1 (05:54):
Oh, you know what, if this is going to be interesting
, we will talk about it.
You know, I think it'simportant for people to know,
because it's like you're talkingabout a project that's
underwater, or just any idea ingeneral, and the process is not
always so easy and that's why,you know, sometimes it takes
people years right create anidea to get it going.
(06:17):
It's not just like, oh yeah, Ihave.
I get this person like I mean,yeah, you have your team, but
that's just the surface, right.
Speaker 2 (06:25):
Oh for sure, I mean, even on a basic level.
So, you know, making objectsfor an underwater space, you
know, is very, very different tomaking sculptures on land.
You know the materials have tobe of a certain type, you know
they can't pollute obviously,the sea in any way.
They have to be something thatis extremely resilient, that is,
(06:47):
you know, transportable andultimately, you know, provides a
home for marine life.
So there's loads of researchand challenges trying to design
pieces that are heavy enough tojust sit on the sea floor.
Obviously, when you put anobject in salt water it becomes
lighter.
And in the Caribbean there'slots of hurricanes and storms,
(07:08):
so you need to make works thatare not going to get, you know,
dislodged or moved.
So, yeah, it's making worksextremely heavy in the water but
not so heavy on land that youcan't lift them up or transport
them.
That's the sort of basic stuffof just making the pieces.
And then you've also, you know,got the sort of difficulty of
(07:29):
permitting.
So you have lots of studies andsurveys and consultations and,
yeah, legislation to follow toactually be allowed to place
sculptures in the sea.
And then you've got, you know,I think, working in any sort of
public space.
You know, and you probablypeople are very aware of this.
You know from social media, butyou know, whenever you're
(07:51):
working in a public arena, youknow there's lots of opinions
and groups and different partiesthat you know you need to try
to satisfy as much as you can,and so that can be a challenge,
because we obviously all don'tsee the world, you know, from
the same viewpoint.
Speaker 1 (08:07):
So, based on what you're saying, do you also have
a science background?
It sounds to me like it's notjust creating the sculptures,
just also knowing if this isgoing to work underwater, like
just the spatial awareness andyour underwater.
So obviously, the weight of thesculpture, and I mean even for
the first one you created here.
Am I saying it right, molineer?
(08:29):
Molineer, yeah, Molineerunderwater sculpture museum the
first one that you did, ofcourse and there's a lot of
works.
I've only looked at some ofthem.
It's absolutely beautiful.
About 75 works cover like 800square meters.
How long did that take you?
Speaker 2 (08:45):
I think it took me a couple of years.
I think it was about two, maybe, yeah, two years.
I was travelling back to the UKfor additional work to help
fund it and so, yeah, I think Iused to work in the UK for three
months and then returned toGrenada for three months and my
partner lived there and was atthe university there.
So, yeah, it was definitely alot of work and I didn't have
(09:08):
the same resources, obviously,that I employ now, and so
everything was kind of done byhand.
We would float sculptures outfrom the shoreline and I would
spend two weeks underwaterbolting them all together and
connecting them, and there wasdefinitely a lot more hands on.
But then I look back on it nowand actually it was some of the
(09:30):
most fun and exciting parts ofit.
Now I spend more time workingon engineering drawings or
permitting applications and I dosort of with the hands on
working in the seaside.
Speaker 1 (09:44):
You said it was exciting the whole process.
I guess because it was morehands on.
What was exciting about it?
Speaker 2 (09:50):
Art for me is all about exploration, and so I've
always sort of explored the seaas a diver.
But now I sort of was able toexplore it through my art.
So as I place things underwaterI could watch them transition
and change colour and growdifferent forms and have
(10:10):
different corals and sponges andalgae and all these different
transformations happening.
So it was really exciting tosee how they respond.
I wasn't quite sure, so eachtime I would slightly modify the
designs.
At the beginning I did thingsvery flat and close to the
seabed and as I got moreconfident and more able with the
(10:34):
technique, I was able to standthings up and make them a bit
more elevated, and as soon asyou elevated them they got more
of the nutrient rich current sothey really started to grow a
lot more.
But yeah, it was reallyfascinating to see and I also
probably I learned a lot in thatfirst stage and I teamed up
with an artificial reef companythat also gave me a lot of
(10:57):
advice on the best techniques touse.
But yeah, it was fascinatingseeing all the changes.
Speaker 1 (11:02):
So it was kind of like a work in progress, like
you were learning as you werecreating.
Speaker 2 (11:08):
You know I think I'm always learning Every project.
You know I start there's.
You know it's always.
You know very differentconditions and different
cultures and differentenvironments.
And yeah, so it's.
I don't think you ever getcomplacent where it's always the
same.
It's always a learning curve.
Speaker 1 (11:28):
And in your background you went to
university for sculpture design,or so you went to London
Institute of Arts in 98 and youhave a BA in sculpture.
So what exactly did you learnwhile you were there?
Speaker 2 (11:43):
Oh, lots of things.
I mean I specialized in casting.
I used to do a lot of lifecasting, body casting, yeah,
mold making, armatures.
You know all about public artand context and how that changes
.
So yeah, no, no, it was.
It was really really good, Iwas really fortunate experience.
(12:05):
You know, I look back on it nowand I sort of didn't appreciate
it.
You know, being 19, 20, I, youknow I didn't realize what an
amazing opportunity it was.
And I kind of look back now andthink, god, if I could go back
to university, it'd beincredible, you know, would you
study the same thing if you wentback.
Yeah, probably it sounds like adream now, but you know you just
(12:27):
used to go into this hugecollege with this quite
fortunate because it was.
It had some very interestingtutors and there was.
They had a very differentapproach to things and you know
I'm always going to go in andyou were banned from having any
any desks or chairs.
Sitting on the floor, becausethey didn't want you to think on
a desktop scale.
(12:48):
They wanted you to think on adifferent scale.
Speaker 1 (12:52):
What does that mean on a different scale?
Speaker 2 (12:54):
Well, you start on the floor, you get on a ladder.
You look at it from a differentperspective, as was.
Every student's work was verydifferent.
You could say that hadinfluenced me.
Now, working underwater is on avery different scale to gallery
work.
I have to fill huge spaces andthe viewing is completely
(13:18):
different.
You walk around the seabed,looking them at eye level, you
float above them, you swimaround them.
The areas that I need to coverfor it to be a meaningful
experience is really huge.
Speaker 1 (13:32):
The one thing that's amazing.
You are working underwater andbeing a scuba diver in order to
do this kind of work.
What is it like underwater?
For those that have never beenI've never been underwater
what's it like doing workunderwater?
Speaker 2 (13:48):
Completely different, much harder, Definitely much
harder.
You got to plan it really well,make sure you have everything
to hand.
Just pre-planned it all andworked down your head exactly
what's going to take place,because you can't really
improvise or change your plan.
Speaker 1 (14:08):
You have to plan it.
The experience itself do youenjoy?
I mean, you must enjoy workingunderwater, obviously, but I
want to know what does it feellike you're underwater?
It's not like going swimming,right.
Speaker 2 (14:19):
No, it's definitely not like swimming.
Speaker 1 (14:21):
No, it's not.
What I want to know is thefeeling.
What does it feel like whenyou're in that environment and
planning where the sculptures goand the whole process, having
your team send you the nextsculpture and bringing it down?
What does it feel like in termsof gravitational pull?
What is the experience that youget when you're there?
Speaker 2 (14:43):
There's many different phases to what I do
underwater.
First of all, they'll just bechoosing the right location.
That's all about taking in theatmosphere, looking at the
sediment type, visualizing howthe piece will fit within the
(15:04):
topography of what's down there.
That's a really nice experience.
I mean, first of all, beingunderwater, you really obviously
have to control your breathing.
You're very conscious that youhave to have a very regular
breaths and very controlledbreaths.
Your movements have to be muchless frenetic than when you're
(15:26):
on land.
I think you instantly feelcalmer and feel more
clear-headed.
There's that first part, whichis quite interesting than the
actual installation.
That's a very differentexperience where, first of all,
you're really conscious ofsafety, so you're really aware
of where you are in the water.
(15:47):
There's not a sculpture that'sabove your head, coming down on
top of you.
You're not tangled up in anyway or that.
It's safe and in control.
So that's generally quitestressful, but there's certainly
a lot of pressure on it becauseyou've also hired a lot of
people and a lot of logisticsand boats and it's something
(16:09):
that can only be done when theweather's good, basically.
So yeah, that's quitepressurized that part.
And then later on, once that'sdone, there's usually the fixing
stage of it.
So it's putting in the anchorparts and checking the
composition of it, checkingthings at the level, and I tend
(16:29):
to do a lot of that.
I do really enjoy beingunderwater, it's just the sound
is completely different, thelight is different, it's very,
very peaceful, but it's also ona clock, so you've only got a
certain amount of air that willlast you an hour and a half, two
hours.
You're also absorbing nitrogenand you've got a limit to how
(16:55):
long you can spend under.
So, yeah, it's not completelycarefree, but I've done it quite
a while now, so it's sort ofquite late.
Speaker 1 (17:05):
Yeah, you're a veteran now.
I mean, these are all thecomponents that people don't
necessarily think about.
I mean, if I were to go underthere, I'm just like in awe of
all the sculptures and howamazing they look, and just like
the whole.
It's a different world, youknow, when you think about it.
And so I think the next thingthat we need to discuss is the
(17:26):
newest installation that you'veadded in Grenada, which is
amazing because it's devoted tospice mass, and the sculptures
that you created for the newestedition have to do with an event
that happens every year inGrenada.
It's very popular, it's one oftheir biggest tourist
attractions, right?
And so what was the inspirationbehind the new installation
(17:51):
that you created last year?
Speaker 2 (17:53):
We just wanted to make something that was
incredibly unique to Grenada.
We wanted to have images andiconography of things that can
only be found on the island ofGrenada.
Carnival has such crediblestories and such incredible
masqueraders that we thought itwould be really good to capture,
(18:13):
and so, yes, I worked with somelocal artists and we designed
these five different charactersand decorated them all
differently with these newunderwater paints.
And, yes, it's going to bereally interesting to see how
they evolve.
Speaker 1 (18:29):
You said how they evolve, like the sculptures
change over time.
Speaker 2 (18:34):
Oh, yes, of course.
Yes, We've got some of thefeathers on the pretty mast
dancer.
We've got the horns on thejab-jabs.
All of these things are goingto start to heavily be colonized
by sponges and corals andthings.
So, yes, it's going to lookvery different each year.
Speaker 1 (18:52):
As far as sculpture design is concerned, you say you
have a team.
Did someone help you create thedesign for the sculptures or do
you draw them?
You're mainly your designs.
Are you've done them yourselfor is it like you have someone
that helps you when you'recreating?
Speaker 2 (19:09):
It depends, but most of the time mostly designs by
myself.
This particular installation,so this coral carnival that was
in collaboration with a localdesigner and some local artists.
So together we worked out, youknow, each of the characters,
the correct type of costumes andobjects they were holding and
(19:32):
the different designs.
And that's probably a littlebit different to how I normally
work.
You know, I come up with aconcept from the beginning to
the end.
Speaker 1 (19:40):
What was that like?
Having someone else contributeto your creation?
Speaker 2 (19:45):
To be honest, you know, I'm always sort of working
with the underwater world,which is in itself is, you know,
has its own artists that youknow decorate and change and
more things.
So I'm kind of used to sort ofletting go a little bit of a
control anyway, and it was anice experience for sure.
Speaker 1 (20:04):
So you'd created 25 stylized sculptures.
Do you have a favorite?
Speaker 2 (20:09):
It depends.
I mean, each one of them wasalso modeled on a local Canadian
person and the model I used forone of them, the Wild Indian
sculpture, I just really likedthe way he came out.
He's had a really Stolic, proudexpression and, yeah, I kind of
liked how that came out.
(20:29):
The jab jab was quiteinteresting, you know.
Again, the model was reallygood and the form with the snake
and with the horns, yeah, had areally good silhouette
underwater, you know, reallyinvited people to come and find
out more and ask questions.
Speaker 1 (20:46):
This one is kind of I think it's cool, the one where
he's sitting and he's typing onthe typewriter.
Speaker 2 (20:54):
Yeah, that was one of the first sculptures that I
actually produced when I firststarted, called the Lost
Correspondent, oh wow.
And when I first made it I madeit from a type of metal that
didn't last a lot very longunderwater, so it actually
started to degrade over time,and obviously since then I've
(21:14):
upgraded my techniques a lot andso actually revamped that
sculpture and recast elements ofit.
Speaker 1 (21:20):
Like you said, they change over time.
Like every year the changes,and so it will be interesting to
see what the coral carnivallooks like in a few years from
now, like how the sculpture willlook and how much coral will be
there, and like what attractsit, right, because I mean,
obviously it's underwater and sothe composition doesn't stay
the same, right?
Speaker 2 (21:41):
No, it changes.
It's interesting talking aboutthat first piece as well, the
Lost Correspondent.
I think that was the piece thatreally sort of ignited my
imagination and made that piecekind of saw it.
I saw this desk and I saw thiskind of right and I saw the
space that it would work and itwas like this sort of corridor
(22:03):
underwater that opened up intothis little clear opening which
had amazing white sand and sortof some beams coming through and
there was kind of coralsgrowing up walls on the side of
it and I just sort of thought ofhim in this space, you know,
and I made it and installed itand it kind of instantly worked.
And just, you know, on land itkind of felt meaningless, but
(22:28):
just putting it underwater waswhat gave it this sense of
mystery.
It wasn't entirely, you know,was it a sort of modern art
experience?
Was it an archaeologicalexperience?
You know who were we, wherewere we going?
No-transcript asked all thesedifferent questions which you
(22:49):
didn't have on land.
Speaker 1 (22:50):
I guess it's one of those things where you're
getting it inspired.
Obviously, the second additionto the underwater museum is more
to do with carnival itself, butthe first one.
What was the meaning behindthat?
Speaker 2 (23:06):
Because obviously that's your claim to fame.
There were lots of differentsculptures in that collection.
In the first work, the mostwell-known is this piece called
Forcissitudes, which is a ringof children.
Speaker 1 (23:19):
Yes, that's one of my favorites.
I love that.
Speaker 2 (23:22):
That was one of the first pieces, part of the first
set that I made in the early2000s, and again it was cast
from children on the island andit was put near this white patch
of sand that had this reallynice current that came through
it and I wanted to show howchildren absorb and change and
(23:46):
adapt to their environment andtheir situations and they grow
on the nutrition that they have,and so that was quite
interesting.
Each different children grew atdifferent rates and changed in
different ways and some hadincredible big sort of pink
sponges that came out in everydirection and others had a sort
(24:07):
of white fur that came out andothers had a kind of golden fire
coral that went up their legsand arms.
So yeah, that was one of thefirst pieces and kind of
captures people's imaginations.
Speaker 1 (24:18):
Someone described it as something out of a Stephen
King novel.
Speaker 2 (24:23):
Well, it's interesting.
I mean, that particular piece,it's been so many different
people have interpreted it indifferent ways, and some people
have looked at it from a scarypoint of view and they see that
this people underwater hasconnected to drowning.
There's been a lot of peoplethat have also connected it to
(24:46):
people that have died during themiddle passage, and so there's
other people that have thoughtabout it as a coral reef and and
a diving experience, andchildren that are changing,
other people that see as a big,real sense of unity and
connection.
So yeah, for me I think that'sthe whole sort of reason for art
(25:09):
, is it?
It evokes a different responsefrom each viewer.
Speaker 1 (25:14):
Art is always interpretive and you've done so
much all over the world, likeyou know Grenada, mexico,
bahamas, the UK, australia.
How come you haven't gottenanything here in Canada?
Speaker 2 (25:29):
I would love to do something in Canada.
Definitely I did.
We did have a project at onepoint, working in a river, which
was which is quite exciting,but unfortunately it didn't
happen in the end.
But it's the same in America.
I also haven't got any worksthere because the permitting is
pretty stringent and takes along time.
Speaker 1 (25:48):
Well, I hope you do it, jason, you know your work is
beautiful Because of socialmedia.
I think it kind of ignited theart world, especially because
there's this one group that youwork with.
I don't know if you necessarilywork, collaborate with them,
necessarily, but they're theones that run coordinate the
scuba diving part of theunderwater museum.
(26:11):
You know, they're the ones thattrain people on how to scuba
dive and they have a wholethat's a whole different thing
altogether, but that's part ofthe whole experience is going
underwater and scuba diving toget there and learning how to do
that if you've never done itbefore.
So where I'm going with this isthat because of them, the
social media, like theirFacebook and the Instagram I was
(26:33):
just like, wow, this is soamazing because they've done a
lot of videos, like many videos,and I'm like you know, for me,
I'm not really a big swimmer,but it's one of those things
where I feel like when I go backhome to Grenada to visit that I
would consider doing thatbecause it's so beautiful.
Why did you get into sculpturedesign?
I?
Speaker 2 (26:51):
don't know.
I think I was, you know, always.
I was always into, into art andI think it was just probably
the thing I was best at thatgame.
Naturally, yeah, you know, Iwas a bit of a graffiti artist
when I was young and so I wasalways either painting or making
or, you know, creatingsomething.
So it was really, yeah, quite akind of natural progression.
Speaker 1 (27:14):
Did you ever get in trouble for doing some of that
graffiti?
Speaker 2 (27:17):
I did in the beginning yeah, yeah, but again
it was working outside in apublic space.
Again I sort of look back onsome of the things I've done in
my life and they always feed ininto what I've made in some way.
(27:38):
Well, at the time I neverreally realized, but all the
experiences you have, they allobviously sort of shape you and
they all become relevant.
Everything you do is relevant.
It all kind of works out.
Speaker 1 (27:52):
Yeah, it's your history, it's a part of who you
are, because both your parentsare teachers.
So what was that like?
Do you feel like they kind ofhelped you to get to that point
when you chose your specialty inuniversity?
That's not the typical thingthat people study in school.
Speaker 2 (28:10):
I'm very fortunate.
They're very open parents andthey afforded me a lot of
freedom.
They never dictated what Ishould do or how I should do it.
They took me around the worldand let me explore, have lots of
different experiences, and I'mvery lucky to have that.
Speaker 1 (28:29):
And what's one of the memories that you have that
just stays with you now.
Speaker 2 (28:34):
I mean, they're the ones that introduced me to this
sort of underwater world.
I lived in Malaysia when I wasa kid and every weekend we'd go
snorkeling and swimming and Igot to see incredible things
when I was like seven years old,wow.
So yeah, they definitelyplanted the seed.
Speaker 1 (28:52):
They did.
I was just talking about thiswith someone, about your brain,
the way you are, we as a humanrace, the things that you do
when you're younger lead thepath to your future.
They planted the seed, and thatwas something that was a
highlight in your life, and sothat's probably helped you
(29:13):
decide what your career would belike, and the fact that they
let you have that freedom to doso, which is the most important
thing, because, as an artist,they always say you know,
artists are starving becauseit's a passion.
It doesn't pay the bills.
I talked to someone the otherday.
She was telling me like herhusband is an engineer, but his
(29:33):
passion is comedy.
He has a podcast and herparents have taught her that you
can't live off of your passions.
You have to have something else, and so, with you, did you have
something to back up on, orhave this?
You just decided that this iswhat you're going to devote your
life to.
Speaker 2 (29:51):
You know, as part of the conflict that I had, you
know, when I finished artcollege, you know, I became
super disillusioned by theopportunities that were out
there, you know, and working outhow to pay your rent and do
anything in your life, it wasreally, really demoralising, you
know, and it still is in someways.
(30:14):
It's still really tough, youknow, it's such a competitive
space the arts and there's solittle resources to go around
that, yes, it's still prettyhard.
And so after I graduated, I didlots of other different jobs,
you know, for probably like 10years, 12 years.
But it was only in sort of whenI was in Grenada that I thought
(30:36):
, actually I'm going to dosomething that, you know, I feel
passionate and interested in,and I didn't give it along, you
know, I just thought this isgoing to be, you know, a couple
years and an experimentation.
I didn't have a kind of plan ofwhere it end up and it still
probably took me 10 years beforeI started getting paid for it
(31:01):
properly, you know.
You know.
Speaker 1 (31:03):
And no one knows that .
You know what I mean.
That's the thing, like whenyou're an artist and like you're
doing all this stuff, no oneknows, like, what the journey is
like getting there.
So obviously you were gettingfunding and doing other things
to pay the bills, right yeah?
Speaker 2 (31:17):
definitely, yeah, for the first five years definitely
, I was having to sort of do youknow other jobs to fund it.
Then after five years I wasprobably just sort of making
enough to survive from it.
And yeah, it takes a while.
And even now sort of you knowhow many years I mean 20 years
in I get a lot of you know,requests for different projects,
(31:37):
but some stumps still sort offall by the wayside.
It's definitely a lot easier.
It's a difficult space, youknow the arts is.
You know there's a very thinpercentage of the population
that can make a good living fromit.
Speaker 1 (31:52):
It's just like amazing what you've done and
what you've created, and I hopethat this episode inspires more
people around the world to go toGrenada.
I hope that it will inspire ormotivate them to go and see what
you've created, because it'samazing, right, and that what
(32:15):
you've done and the fact that itis considered the first, your
first exhibit, the one we did in2006, one of the 25 wonders of
the world to be at the height,to have that as one of your
accolades Like.
What did it feel when theyactually said like this is
National Geographic named itthat.
What was that like?
Speaker 2 (32:36):
Oh, I mean, yeah, it was obviously, you know,
incredible and I was quitestunned.
And at the same time, they alsolisted some of the other
attractions.
There was a few little ones onthere, like the Himalayas and
the Great Wall of China.
I was like it, definitely notquite as impressive as those.
So but yeah, no, no, it's greatto be recognized.
(32:59):
In fact, actually yesterdaythey just also named Grenada one
of the top 20 culturaldestinations of 2024.
Speaker 1 (33:07):
Well, look at that, you know, it's amazing For those
who are artists, and sometimesyou get discouraged.
What do you say to them?
You just got to do what ismeaningful for yourself.
Speaker 2 (33:18):
You want to show on this planet and to be trapped
into something that is justabout survival.
It's definitely got to followyour passion and do something
that's meaningful for you.
Speaker 1 (33:27):
You know what, jason?
It always comes back.
Even for me this idea was.
I thought about it when Igraduated from college.
I just didn't start it and then, when the world changed, the
pandemic I'm like I have timenow I might as well do it.
I think there's more excuses,because the thing that we always
I'll do it tomorrow or whenthings are better there's never
(33:49):
going to be a better time, youknow.
Speaker 2 (33:51):
so that's true I think there's also like a really
there's a real balance in yourage as well.
You know, when you're young andin your 20s and you have the
energy and the sort of drive toreally do exciting things, you
know, you sort of put it offmaybe.
I think I'll do it later on inlife, you usually have lots of
(34:13):
commitments and responsibilitiesand you don't have the same
energy you had.
So I think it's definitelyfoolish to wait.
You really just have to begin.
Speaker 1 (34:24):
Just start the process.
Yeah, this is amazing.
I'm Carleen.
This is Not Magnation withJason DeCarris Taylor.
Thank you so much, jason, it'sbeen a pleasure.
Popular Podcasts
Bookmarked by Reese's Book Club
Welcome to Bookmarked by Reese’s Book Club — the podcast where great stories, bold women, and irresistible conversations collide! Hosted by award-winning journalist Danielle Robay, each week new episodes balance thoughtful literary insight with the fervor of buzzy book trends, pop culture and more. Bookmarked brings together celebrities, tastemakers, influencers and authors from Reese's Book Club and beyond to share stories that transcend the page. Pull up a chair. You’re not just listening — you’re part of the conversation.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com