From Hip-Hop to Mysticism: Sheik El's Journey Through Culture and Consciousness

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:18):
what's going on out there is ron brown lmt.
The people's fitnessprofessional co-host, is not
here on a friday.
This is not his day, so he'snot here.
So it's all me.
And Sheik Denim L is with usfrom Syracuse in the building.
Peace, brother, peace, how yoube, I'm good brother.

Speaker 2 (00:40):
I'm good.
First of all, thank you forhaving me on the show man.
I heard a lot about your show,hon, I'm good brother, I'm good.
First of all, thank you forhaving me on the show man.
I heard a lot about your show.
Honored that you would eveninvite me on Glad to be here.
Yeah, I'm Sheik Dunamel,syracuse, new York.
You know, I do a little bit ofthis, I do a little bit of that.
I have a background inhand-to-hand martial arts as
well.
Like yourself, my specificsystems of martial arts are

(01:07):
Filipino and Indonesian, whichwe would call Kali and Salat.
Also a little background in 52,the hand play.
You know, little knife knifework is my thing, I like the
blades.
You already know.
Yeah, yeah, no, no question, Ilove the Karambits.
I love the Karambit, I love theblades, I love the fixed blade.
You know what I'm saying?
I've been doing the arts sinceI was 11 years old.

(01:28):
Um, I'm 57 now.
So consistent, you know,consistent training and stuff
like that man and I've had somegreat experiences in the systems
.
And, um, I've been fortunateenough to live, you know, in
other countries and livedoverseas.
Lived in africa for almost fouryears south africa,
johannesburg, durban.
Spent a little bit of time inCape Town as well, taught

(01:49):
martial arts over there.

Speaker 1 (01:51):
Wait, wait, wait, wait.
Hold on, hold on, brother,Before we go there, because
we're going to go there.
Let's rewind, let's talk about.
You're from Syracuse, right,Right, Okay Now you came up in
Syracuse 70s, 80s.
How was that experience?

Speaker 2 (02:09):
Oh, no doubt.
I was born in 1968.
So I turned in 1980, I turned12 years old.
So the 80s was the greatestdecade in my life, because those
10 years from 12 to 22 yearsold, pretty much for any of us
is the shaping and thefiguration of the beginning of

(02:31):
our travels into our adult life.
You know what I'm saying.
So from the age of 12 to 22,the 80s was beautiful man.
It was one of the greatestdecades ever, man.
You know, I did my first.
I actually did my firstheadspin in 79.
Did my first headspin in 79.
Did my first headspin in 79.
You know what I'm saying Breakdancing, emceeing.

(02:51):
You know all of that.
I was engulfed around culture.
I grew up, you know, amongstHarambe, which was a Pan-African
organization, and then we hadbrothers and sisters in the
community who had businesses.
You know, we had Brother Bongo.
He had Island Furniture.
He was a Jamaican brother buthe was also a Rasa.
Then we had Brother Alavali,who had the Temple of Okibe Long
Bookstore, the first Asiaticbookstore in the town.

(03:12):
You know what I mean.
We had Baba Omobuwali, who hadShanti Amani, which is a West
African dancer who would dancetoo, which I was a part of from
1980 to 1995 when he passed away.
So everything about the 80s isbeautiful, the culture,

(03:34):
specifically hip hop.
You know what I mean, becausewe actually live the culture.
I still live it.
See what people don't get today.
You know what I try to explainto my grandchildren and my
children, and things of thatnature, is that what they're
witnessing through the musicindustry, or what I call the
music industry, is actually nothip hop.
What they're witnessing is thehijacking of a word and a whole

(03:55):
machination engulfed or shreddedbehind that word.
And they think that that is theends to the means.
And I'm telling them that musicis a part of hip hop.
Hip hop and ain't music, gotcha?
Indeed, there's a whole bunchof components that make up the
culture.
For me, hip-hop is the fountainof youth.
It keeps us in a particularstate of psychology.

(04:16):
There's a particular psychologywith hip-hop.
You would only get thatpsychology if you came, if you
were born, if you were therefrom its inception, because
there was there was like how yousaid that so.

Speaker 1 (04:31):
So I don't want to cut your wisdom, like this is,
you're already setting it offwith fire.
So now, okay, there, uh, sinceit's, it's right.
So I was born 1980.
Okay, in Harlem, and so I wasalways back and forth Harlem in
the Bronx, because my familyfrom Harlem in the Bronx, harlem

(04:52):
in the Bronx, okay.
So I sort of abandonedbuildings and this that People
break, dancing on cardboard,like that whole era, like I
remember you know what I'msaying, even though I was real
young, but I, I remember thatera, but being there since its
inception, indeed, right, so us,us being new yorkers and you

(05:16):
being from syracuse, how wasthat?
How was the culture in syracusebeing that?
Syracuse is not, of course,it's not New York City, right?
So we, we, our experiences aredifferent.
So how was it?
How did you get that cityessence up to Syracuse?

Speaker 2 (05:33):
I'm going to tell you something, man.
It's funny man, because I wasjust building with one of the
guys on the phone, just maybe acouple of hours ago, that I came
up with we grew up together.
His name is.
We used to call him G-Man.
He's like the youngest DJ inthe town.
At 12 years old he used to rockthe handcuffs on his hands and
break the turntable with thehandcuffs, and all that and 12,
13.
Right, g was from Harlem, hismother was from Harlem.

(06:05):
So this cat.
I told him yo, man, you was oneof the most influential
teenagers in all of our livesbecause of how you live.
He used he would go to new york, like every weekend.
He was always in the city.
He had come back sunday, sundaynight, like well, actually
early monday morning, droppedthe clothes off and go to school
.
You know I'm saying like yo sonhad leather fronts on.
We didn't know what a leatherfront was.
You know I'm saying we talkabout 1980 wearing leather
fronts, gazelles.
No, bro, we in the, we in thesixth, we in the sixth and

(06:28):
seventh grade, you know, so, so,so he, he had another cat who
was a, who was an elder to us.
He's like we called him, bigbrother.
His name was mitchy vaughn.
We called him 45, 45.
Mitch used to go to the city too, but mitch was able to get into
the club so.
So Meech brought back the firstbreakdown.

(06:48):
At that time he called itbreakdown, you know what I'm
saying.
He's like yo, he's catching thecity, yo come back with the
breakdown, blah, blah, blah.
So we came back.
He did a little footwork anddid a spin on the floor and did
a little freeze and we was likeoh, but yo, fam, I was one of
the nicest.
Nicest because I was a martialartist and a gymnast.
Ooh, crazy combination.

(07:10):
Yo, front flips in the footwork, you know what I'm saying.
Windmill into a headslide, intoa headspin, you know what I'm
saying.
Like a swipe into a headspin,into a windmill, into a swipe.
Like yo, my combinations wasincredible.
Footwork was crazy.
I took out crews.
Matter of fact, me and G.
How I met, how I got with them,was went to a skating rink.
The name of his crew was calledPuma Nation.

(07:32):
It's a whole history about PumaNation.

Speaker 1 (07:36):
Now, puma Nation is not in the city, it's in
Syracuse.
It's Syracuse, yeah, yeah.
See, this is yeah, let's get it.

Speaker 2 (07:42):
So the whole Puma Nation crew right.
So I walked up in the club andthey was in the joint.
They was doing their thing, youknow, top rocking and all that
Leather front sawing the suedePumas Kangos straight New York.
I came in in a sweatsuit andripped the whole squad.
I took the whole squad out Band I was known for doing that

(08:05):
and I always traveled aloneWherever I went.
If I went to a club, I wouldjust walk and go to the dance
floor and just go like this andjust everybody move and I just
kill.
I kill everybody in the spot.
You get up and walk and leave.

Speaker 1 (08:18):
Right, right.
So now, now, with thatexperience, right, so bring from
the city to Syracuse hip-hop,so it wasn't like so much of a
lag in the culture, like as faras, like what Syracuse got.
So let's say, like Harlem andthe Bronx and all that, the five
boroughs, we start rockingGazelles.

(08:39):
When does Syracuse startrocking Gazelles?
1980.
So like, but when did gazellescome about?
Because before that, like, Iwas born in 1980.
Right, I don't know.

Speaker 2 (08:52):
Obviously, they was wearing gazelles already,
because we was wearing them too.
We got that from the city.
Remember, run DMC wore gazelles, you know what I'm saying.
Like we used to see gazelles,like you would see gazelles,
like, with certain Everybodydidn't wear gazelles, even in
the hip-hop culture it wascertain crews that rocked

(09:15):
gazelles B and there was alwaysfly guys.
You know, run DMC, that was afly duo man, them boys, they was
fly.
You know matching jean joints,you know what I'm saying.
And the Adidas, like they wasfly.
The game changed, the fashiongame changed because, like, the

(09:37):
Bronx had a particular look.
It was chains and leather andall this other stuff.
Because the Bronx was comingout of that game, that game
culture.
Right, exactly, savage goals,seven deadly sins, black spades.
It was coming out of the gameculture.
So we understand that.
Then you had run DMC.
They coming from Queens, queensalways been fly guys.

(09:59):
Right.
Right, they came fly like Queensdo.
Right, harlem is fly guys too.
They come harlem, dress right,young man.
So it was like in syracuse.
Took on that type of style.
They took on that type ofharlem queens thing the real
b-boy, the real b-boy, mcs,that's what they took on.

(10:19):
You know, I'm saying becausethat was, that was the paradigm.
You know I'm saying like that's, that's what, that's what they
took on.
And we had crews.
We had KOC crew, you had PumaNation.
You had McNasty crew, you hadthe Southside Rockers.
You had Can't Be Stopped.
The CBS crew.
You had Grandmaster, grandElectric Shop man, it was DJ, it

(10:40):
was so many man, it was so manyDJ it was so many, man, it was
so many.

Speaker 1 (10:45):
So now so hip hop, syracuse, you're growing up.
You know breaking you, mc, yeah, I was the MC, yeah, mc, you
ever getting to DJing and allthat cutting.

Speaker 2 (11:01):
I got a little bit into DJing, but my cousin was a
DJ and my DJ.
When I rocked the Knights ofColumbus, my DJ was a
13-year-old.
His name was DJ EJ.
Matter of fact, you might knowhim.
They call him Eddie James.
He got a show called Chop Shop.
Okay, I don't know that name.
I don't know that name.
Yeah, eddie James.
He was a producer for Def Jam.
Okay, he got his own podcast.

(11:21):
It's called the Chop Shop.
They do music and they do allthe young producers and Paul.

Speaker 1 (11:26):
It's actually an old podcast.
I got to check that out.
What about getting up?

Speaker 2 (11:33):
Tagging, yeah, Graffiti yeah.
Oh man, my guy brother and myman, Tink Tink was a beast.
His waltz was incredible, Sonyo, all I could do was tag.
I couldn't bomb, I couldn'tpaint, but I could tag, though
you know what I'm saying.
I couldn't bomb or paint, butTink yo, that man, that yo, Tink

(11:56):
, was nice.
He was super nice with thecharacters.
I mean yo, we was rockingfull-blown jean joints,
full-blown jean joints,full-blown.
You know what?

Speaker 1 (12:09):
I'm saying airbrushed 8081.
Crazy, crazy.
So now going through thathip-hop, breaking that whole
culture?
How did you get into theteachings?
How were you introduced to theteachings?

Speaker 2 (12:23):
This G brought the lessons back from harlem.

Speaker 1 (12:27):
I got it from g okay, he gave me the lesson right now
, though g?

Speaker 2 (12:34):
he right here in syracuse.
His name is hakeem.
He speak fluent arabic.
He's an emam at the mosqueright around the block.
Oh wow, and g ran.
G was.
G had production deals with DefJam.
Matter of fact, he was a partof Trackmasters Rich Nice, rich
Nice, that's his ace.

(12:55):
He was in the studio whenKRS-Made.
You know, step Into a World andall that man.
He was around in the Puff Daddydays and all that man.
He was around in the Pup.

Speaker 1 (13:04):
Daddy days and all that man Step into the world.
That's 96, 97?
.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (13:11):
He got a story.
That's my man right there.
He got a real story we came upfrom childhood.
I mean a real story, like amovie type story.
Okay, he had a key at 13, man.

Speaker 1 (13:23):
Oh, wow, yeah, he was moving around, yeah he was
moving around.

Speaker 2 (13:26):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I held the mathematics down though
.

Speaker 1 (13:31):
Okay, so you got the mathematics.
And then what happened fromthat point?

Speaker 2 (13:35):
From that point on, we just kept adding on, we just
kept building, going to school.
High school, junior high school, high school.
Shanti Amani, the African dancetroupe.
I got the name KenyattaAtodiallo.
It was based on the Yorubareligion.
The dance troupe was so a lotof the things that we did was
based on the Orishas.
A lot of the dances and theinvocations actually was based

(13:56):
on the Orishas Shango Ye MayaOgun, you know what I'm saying,
and Obatala and things like thatman.
So we kept going.
You know that went on until12th grade for me, but I still
maintain and continue to staywith it.
I mean, I went to the militaryin 86.
I graduated from high school in86.
Went to the military, went tothe United States Navy in 86.

Speaker 1 (14:20):
And did two tours got out in 89, got kicked out Whoa,
whoa, whoa pause.
So now you did two tours.

Speaker 2 (14:26):
Yeah, explain those two tours.
I was in the United States Navy.
The tours are when you get onyour whatever particular
location, whatever ship.
I was on an aircraft carrier.
I was on two aircraft carriers.
My first aircraft carrier wascalled the USS Kitty Hawk CB-62.
We went from San Diego toPhiladelphia but on the way from
San Diego to Philadelphia westopped in the Philippines.

(14:47):
We stopped in different otherother locations.
That's called a tour.
You know, from one side of thecoast to the other side of the
coast is called a tour.
I went on two tours.
I went on from the West coastto the East, from the East back
to the West.
I got stationed in Philly in 86.
From east back to the west.
I got stationed in philly in 86, from from got stationed in
philly.
So when we got, when we wentthrough from san diego, I went

(15:11):
to a school in san diego, gotout of the boot camp in chicago,
from boot camp I got sent tosan diego where I went to a
school for for culinary, for tobe a chef, right.
So went to a school.
From school they sent me to mylocation or my destination,
which was the USS Kitty Hawk,but I had to wait for the ship
to come in to get on the ship.

(15:32):
So I got on the ship in thePhilippines.
They sent me to the Philippinesto meet the ship because the
ship had already left.
So they flew me to thePhilippines.
So I was in the Philippines forlike six weeks waiting for the
ship to get there.

Speaker 1 (15:44):
Hold on, hold on, hold, on, hold on, Because
you're moving at like lightspeed, right.
So now you did these two tours.

Speaker 2 (15:52):
The first tour, what was that experience like?
I'm about to drop it to you.
That's what I'm about to showyou, I'm still on the first tour
, all right.
So they flew me to thePhilippines to wait for the ship
to come into the Philippines,because I was the next dock.
They couldn't fly me to theship while I was on the water,
you know what I'm saying.
So it was en route.

(16:12):
So they flew me to thePhilippines.
So I was there for like someweeks before the ship got there.
Mind you, I'm 17 years old, bro, in the Philippines, out on
Magsaysay Boulevard, in alongapost city, right subic bay,
with 225 massage parlors andbars all the way up and down the

(16:37):
strip, and I'm a scorpio andI'm 17.
Yeah, yeah, yep, yeah, yeah, itwas wild.
Yo, I was, I was, I was, I was,I was, yeah, I was, I was all
over the place.

(16:57):
They started calling me.
They started calling me.
They started calling me themayor of the town, the people in
the town, because they wouldsee me so much.
I used to take rice off the shipand bring rice to like people
outside.
You know it's a thing called.
They're called mamasan.
A mamasan is a woman who hasdaughters, of course, but some

(17:20):
mamasans have brothels.
So I used to come out with likea 10-pound bag of rice and take
it to mamasan and the world wasmine, bro.
I could do whatever I wanted todo all through the house.
I'd go in the refrigerator theydidn't have a refrigerator, but
I'd just go drink the sugarcane, do whatever I wanted to do
, walk around in my boxes,whatever I wanted to do.
Right, you know what I'm saying.

(17:40):
It was just a wild time man.
I mean, you know, you know,ship came in, got on the ship
and everything was good.
And then I messed around, bro,from the age of 17 to the age of
20, I caught a crack addictioninside of the military.
I was on crack from night, fromfrom 80, from 86.
No, almost the end of 86 toabout 89.

(18:04):
Wow, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,yeah.
I put it on myself.
I was young and stupid.
I went through a lot of thingswith that, but I always had
somewhere to sleep, I always hadsomewhere to go.
So it wasn't like I was in thestreet somewhere, it was just I
would just take my check andburn it on crack and then once I

(18:25):
spit my check up.

Speaker 1 (18:26):
Let's talk about that a little bit.
Yeah, let's talk about it.
I don't have like.
Of course we're not advocatingit, but how do you get hooked?

Speaker 2 (18:38):
I'm going to tell you what happened.
I come from an era everybodysmoked weed.
Herb was just a part of the erayou, I'm saying the 70s.
I came, I was, you know.
So herb was just a thing.
So growing up I used to smokeweed.
We all did smoke some weed andthen rhyme freestyle or whatever
.
So we got into the military,you know, I mean, you couldn't

(18:59):
smoke weed because you could,but it would stay in your system
too long.
So the old has is like yo, youshouldn't do that, man, if you
want to, you shouldn't do thatman If you want to get right.
Use this, try this you knowwhat I'm saying and it'll be out
of your system by Monday.
It'll only stay in your systemtwo or three days.
So me, not.
I'm listening to these olddudes.
I'm figuring they looking outfor me.

(19:21):
I'm 17, man, you know what I'msaying.
And I started using that'spretty much it when I came home,
when I got put out in 89,october 19th 1989, I got put out
.
And it's funny because a yearbefore that my mother was
talking to me while I was in andshe was like yeah, I had a

(19:43):
dream that you was at the door,knocking at the door with your
bags and stuff, and I startedlaughing.
I was like, yeah, I had a dreamthat you was at the door
knocking at the door with yourbags and stuff, and I started
laughing.
I was like mom you bugging.
But a year later I was at thedoor, knocking at the door with
my bags and shit, yeah, yeah.
And she became a little issuelater on in my life because she
could always see things beforethey happened and then just

(20:04):
expose me, just exposed me.
So I realized that I, after acertain point, I realized that
hustling just wasn't going to befor me, man, because she just
knew everything.
You know I'm saying so, youknow, I went another way.
I took my little hustling moneyand I went to school and after
I got out 1992 I went to college, I started my college.
I started college in 1992 andwhen you went to Syracuse.

(20:29):
No, I went to Onondaga CommunityCollege and I got a degree.
I got an associate's degree incriminal justice and then I got
a scholarship also to teach inan urban environment.
So I took a teachingscholarship to Oswego State
University where I got mybachelor's and my master's from.

Speaker 1 (20:50):
That's peace, that's peace, that's peace.
And so what year was that?
How old were you?

Speaker 2 (20:53):
Um, that was in two.
I got my master's in 2001.
So that was 24 years ago, um 30, 35, 34, 35.
Okay, okay.

Speaker 1 (21:06):
Yo, oh, one second Peace.
Everybody in the chat.
I love this show.
Yo, thank you, brother, reallyappreciate you.
Awareness Daily if you'rewatching.
I did see the super sticker.
I really appreciate you,brother, the new member, really
appreciate you.
Everybody in the chat, thanksfor watching tonight's show.
Back to you, brother.
So now you got the degree.

(21:31):
So where'd?

Speaker 2 (21:33):
you go from there.
From there.
When I got my master's, I wasalready working at a place
called the Southwest CommunityCenter and I was basically what
they would call the careerspecialists job placement,
employment specialists but I wasalso a lot more Now with this

(21:56):
program.
It was called Results and thisprogram was centered around
youth ages 16 to 24 years old.
High school, as well as whatthey would call gang bangers and
shooters.
High school, as well as whatthey would call gangbangers and
shooters.
My thing was to help them findan alternative to the criminal

(22:17):
nice that they started actuallychanging.
Bro, I stayed there from 1998to 2005.

(22:40):
From 1998 to 2005, I had over250 students come through.
None of them, none of them, noneof them, none of them fell.
None of them, none of them,nobody.
Some went to college, some wentinto trades, some went into

(23:02):
just life, got married and so onand so forth.
I still see some of them today,man, and they still thank me.
I still see some of them today,man, and they still thank me.
Bro, if it wasn't for you, mr D, if it wasn't for you, if it
wasn't for things you told me ormade me do, if it wasn't the
way you made me think.
See, my thing is this you cannever give somebody.
I don't give people.
I don't tell them what to do.

(23:23):
I don't give them orders.
I don't order people to doanything.
What I try to do is I try tocreate an idea with a suggestion
.
Right, yo, maybe you shouldthink about, if possible.
Have you ever tried this orhave you ever done that?
Or have you ever thought aboutsomething that you've never
thought about?
I ask these wild questionsbecause when you ask a crazy

(23:47):
question, it gets a person tothink abstractly.
Right, you know I'm saying.
But the question can be crazyto the point where it's
offensive, right, right, youknow I'm saying because so you
can ask people things that toinfer to actually try to read
them and you can be offensive.

(24:09):
Because everything, for me,everything is communication,
right, Not just words, brother.
To me, communication is notjust words, it's symbolic
interaction.
All communication is symbolicinteraction.
It's not just words.
If I do this and then all us,it's all communicating.

(24:34):
Our children do it to us allthe time we did it to our
parents.
They talk to us.
You take your eyes and lookover this way, or head up, look
that way, start nudging.
As adults, we know what allthat means.
When our kids do that stuff,that's symbolic interaction.
They know they can't talk backbecause something might happen
if they talk back.

(24:54):
So they talk back in other ways.
They use other things to do,and this is a human condition.
When a man says something outof his mouth, I don't listen to
that.
I watch his body.
I watch what he mouth.
I don't listen to that.
I watch his body.
I watch what he's doing as he'sspeaking to me Right, right,
right, right, right, right.

(25:15):
Indeed.
Indeed Because he may be sayingsomething else and maybe
speaking to somebody else whilehe's speaking to me, right?

Speaker 1 (25:21):
That's an actual fact , actual fact.
So now you do this, right?
You help the youth and thingslike that.
How'd you get into morrisscience?

Speaker 2 (25:31):
ah, beautiful question.
So a good brother from syracuse, new york, named sharif bay,
okay, yeah, sharif, sharif,sharif came.
Sharif came back to syracuse inabout 89, 89, 90, so I think it
was 89 and 90.

Speaker 1 (25:46):
Hold on, let me shout out my brother, sharif Bey.
What's up, what's up.
Brother, I think he was just on.
What's the brother's name?
Oh man, I never really watchedthe guy, but he's like popping
now.
What's the guy's name?
He was just on his show, billyCarson.

(26:07):
Oh, billy Carson, he was juston his show.
He was just on his show.

Speaker 2 (26:10):
Yeah, Okay, yeah.
So Sharif came back to Syracusein 89.
He had, you know, I guess, hewas off on his travels and he
came back with this thing fromthe Mothers and Sons Culture
Club.
It was the Mothers and SonsCulture Club, it was the CMB
information and we all thoughtit was Morris Science at the

(26:33):
time.
All of us you know what I'msaying, you know what I mean we
thought it was Morris Scienceand we kept doing what we was
doing.
And then Sharif got anothercontact with a brother named
Ross Sadiel and that's how I wasintroduced pretty much into
Morris Science was throughShareef Bey bringing you know
the CM Bey works in, and that'show it happened.

(26:53):
At one time we all had a templetogether at one time, you know
when we was coming up?

Speaker 1 (27:00):
Oh, you and Shareef Bey.
So what year was that, though?
That was like 1998.
Oh wow, that was like 90, 98.
Oh wow, it was like 98.
That was around the same time Icame into consciousness pretty
much.
Yeah, I was already knee deepin it.

Speaker 2 (27:21):
Yeah, ok, let me show you something.
See that.

Speaker 1 (27:31):
Wait, I can't see.
Put it up a little bit more.

Speaker 2 (27:35):
See Sharif right there.
You see me right there in allthe black.

Speaker 1 (27:39):
So who got the black fez on?
That's me.
Wait, hold up, hold it up,bring it up a little bit more.
Yeah, all right, now we can seeit clearly.
So now, where's Sharif?
He's standing.

Speaker 2 (27:56):
He's the third, there's me, then there's another
brother, and that's him.
That's Sharif, after the otherbrother.

Speaker 1 (28:03):
Okay, with the red fez on Yep, I see him.
That's great.
That's history, right, that'ssyracuse history.
So who else?
Who else is in there?

Speaker 2 (28:11):
that's uh, still, still uh with the movement um,
the brother that's in front ofme, yeah, he's still with the
movement.
Um, that's my son and mydaughter.
It's my son and my daughterdown there.
My son, my son is 32 years oldnow.
My daughter is 30.

(28:33):
That's peace.
The other brother over there inthe Maroon Fest, he's still in.
And the young brother with theturban on and the other brother
with the black.
I don't know how active theyare, but they still carry their
title.
They still carry.
You know, they're B&L.

Speaker 1 (28:47):
Yeah they're B&L.
Yeah, Okay, so now Sharif camewith the CM Bay teachings.
Y'all got the teachings, Y'allopened up a temple.
And then what happened with thetemple and like that whole
initiative.

Speaker 2 (29:00):
Well, you know, life happens, brother.
You know people went differentways.
Things happen.
The leadership we was with itwas a split.
You know things fell apart andI left and a lot of the brothers
they stayed with the leadershipI bounced pretty much OK.

Speaker 1 (29:18):
So now, after you, now you pick up the CM Bay
teachings, and then from there,where'd you go with more science
?
And then from there, where'dyou go with Morris Science?

Speaker 2 (29:25):
By that time no, by that time, by this time, I had
put the CMB teachings down,because now I understood what
the profit was.
I understood the difference.
You understand what I'm saying.
So I got strictly on MorrisScience.

Speaker 1 (29:43):
Okay, can you explain the difference for the people?

Speaker 2 (29:50):
Yeah, CM Bay.
I'll put it like this CM Baydidn't teach religion, he didn't
bring up religion.
Matter of fact, on page six ofbook one he said I have rejected
all isms, including my ownIslamism.
So there's a difference Fromthat.
Statement alone tells you.
So there's a difference fromthat statement alone tells you

(30:10):
that there's a difference.
You understand what I mean.
While we're dealing with holybooks and prophets and so on and
so forth, he's dealing with thescience of astrology, masonry,
astrology, law, history, allintertwined, Some cosmic
histories and so on and so forth.
So there's a difference.
They have a Zodiac constitution.

(30:32):
The Moral Science of Americahas a divine constitution and
bylaws.
There's a difference.
So I don't knock that, becausethat science has its value.
Trust me, it has value.
But I wanted to learn thescience of the prophet and
that's what I put my focus andmy concentration on and I

(30:54):
started going through the Morrisworld man.

Speaker 1 (30:57):
OK, now, once you put that down and you started going
through the Morris world, whatwas the?
What was your like, your pointman, or what?
Did you go to a temple, or didyou go to a person, or?

Speaker 2 (31:10):
no, what happened was after I, after I left and broke
away from them, I had contactwith all types of brothers and
sisters.
So I started doing research.
That's all came, came up, camefound.
I found I found a brother namednine, brother ninee from
Virginia and me and him wasbuilding that and he was like

(31:30):
you know what's going on inSyracuse, blah, blah, blah.
And I was like yo man, I wantto put a temple here.
And I got introduced to my realfirst Supreme Grand Chic.
His name was Grand Chic HenryBae, out of Long Beach, new York
, originally out of Queens.
He was the first nationalorganizer of the More Scientific
of America in 1969 in Queens,new York, him and a brother,

(31:54):
dokes Bay, and another brother.
I forgot the other brother'sname, but they are the original
founders of the Great Sealbrother Right in.

Speaker 1 (32:00):
Queens Right.
Yeah, my grand sheik.

Speaker 2 (32:07):
My supreme grand chick Is one of the original
founders Of the great soul.
Right, okay, that was in the50s, I mean, pardon me that was
in the 60s In the 60s now.

Speaker 1 (32:18):
Can you?
I know I got you going all overthe place, but like yo, this is
dope the great soul.
Can you explain that rightthere?

Speaker 2 (32:29):
The great soul.
You know I don't know muchabout the great seal because I
didn't really deal with them,but I knew brothers who was a
part of it.
You know I met brother rami bay.
Brother rami bay was cool, hewas on 140th, and guy brewer
back 141st, and guy brewer, backin the days in queens we used
to go highlighting, you know I'msaying, and um, brother hakeem
bay, if I not mistaken, he was apart of the gray.
So at one time it was anotherbrother too.

(32:50):
But what they did was they werelike a, they were like to me.
They were more like a offbranch of the more scientific of
America.
But they had other elementsthat was intertwined in the gray
.
So like Freemasonry you knowsaying masonry and other other
things you know was there aswell, you know, and I never
really got, I never really was apart of the Grace.

(33:10):
So that was one organizationthat I didn't become a part of.
I knew brothers and I knewbrothers who was a part of it,
though Got you, got you, so youdid, so you went on your travels
, you basically studied on yourown.
Yeah, and I opened up and I gotcommission, I got with Grand
Chic and Rebay and I ended upgetting a charter and I opened

(33:32):
up Temple no 18 in Syracuse, newYork, from 2000 to 2004.
In 2004, I left and went toAfrica and came back a couple
months.

Speaker 1 (33:44):
Hold on.
You went to Africa.
What did you do there in Africa?
Africa?

Speaker 2 (33:48):
though.
I went to visit.
I went on a visit at that time.
I was married and my wife is mywife.
Her family are South African.
Her mother was.
Her mother was um, was an ANC,was an ANC member who had got
exiled from South Africa.
So she had been away from herown home for over 30 some years.
She was an ANC fighter.

(34:14):
Her mother, my ex-wife's mother.
So we ended up going back.
She wanted to see her family.
My ex-wife wanted to see herfamily overseas.
She wanted to go over there.
So we went over there, cameback home and Grand Sheik Henry
Bates gave me a hollering andsaid that he would have revoked
the charter from the templebecause they wasn't keeping
things in order.
And um told me that he wouldgive me a charter back if I
wanted to reopen the temple.

(34:35):
So I said no, I did so.
I didn't do it from there.
By this time I'm wellestablished in the morris world.
People know me, so I'm.
I'm helping people open temples, close temples.
You, you know what I'm saying,um.
From 2000 and from 2004 to 2017, I wasn't a part of no grand

(34:57):
body for 13 years, I was justbeing an angel.
I was just out here doing,doing what I do, but I was still
helping the Moorish sciencetemple of America, even though I
wasn't an active, you knowmember with a body of followers
or whatever.
You know what I mean, because Iwas never in the titles or
nothing like that.
My thing is the work.

(35:18):
I do the work.
I'm not.
The titles don't mean nothingto me.
Anybody can tell you it, never.
It don't mean I'm not a titleguy from there, man, you know,
just doing my thing.

(35:38):
2007,.
I went back to Africa for someyears, from 2007 to 2010,.
The middle of 2010, junesomewhere around there is when I
returned.
But while I was there I ran anibogaine clinic.
I had my own ibogaine clinic.

(35:59):
I had my own radio show onChannel Islam which had a
million listeners.
I was teaching martial arts.
I was even in a commercial.
My father came to visit.
My father was like yo man, likewhat are you doing?

(36:21):
Like you over here living likea kingpin?
You got people picking you up,you got your own radio show and
blah, blah, blah.
I said dad man, I said you justfell in place like this.
You know what I mean, you knowthe reason I went back, the
reason I went to Africa in 2007,.
I'm going to tell you thisstory, man.

(36:41):
I went in 2007 because myex-wife took my daughters to
Africa, to South Africa, andsaid she wasn't bringing them
back.
So I was like, well then, howdoes that work?
So she took them.
It was already there.
She called me from theretelling me that they were
already there and that I wasn'tgoing to see him again.
And you know all of this.
So I got off the phone, went tomy boss I was working at this

(37:05):
place called Elmcrest Children'sCenter.
I was a therapist went to myboss and said, listen, I need a
two-week vacation, man, I needto take a trip to Africa you
know South Africa to get my kids.
He's like no problem, man, youknow no problem.
I had the time.
So I got a one-way ticket.
I didn't get a round trip, Igot a one-way ticket $747.

(37:29):
I remember the price.
Got on the plane, flew overthere, called her on the phone
from South Africa.
She talking smack.
So I said, yo, what was thename of the airport in South
Africa?
And she's like, oh, the Tambo.
I said yeah, I'm at the Tambo.
I heard the phone drop right.
So about 45 minutes she show upat the airport and pick me up
or whatever.
So now I'm there, and I'm therefor three and a half years and,

(37:53):
bro, all the blessings that cameout of it, bro, it all started
when I did a lecture at afestival that I wasn't even
scheduled to do.
The brothers I was with theMuslim brothers, I was with they
was like I'm pretty swift withthings.
So you know, I do substanceabuse therapy, counseling and
mediation, stuff like that.
So in South Africa they were atleast 12 years behind us in

(38:20):
substance abuse information, aswell as procedures, policies,
regulation, things of thatnature, right?
So I was up on that, becausethis is what I do.
So I got up there and did aspeech.
I did like a little lecture offthe top of the head.
Y'all blew the house down Bthey asked me to come back the
next day and talk again.
I spoke to about 20,000 Muslimsin two days.

(38:41):
All of the youth swarmed me.
They was following everywhere Iwent.
The children was behind me, bro, the kids, because the message
that I brought, see, my thing,is this I don't talk to the
adults.
But I will give the adultsinstruction and tell them how

(39:02):
you're messing up.
So y'all want the kids to cometo the mosque.
Y'all want the kids to come tothe church Everybody listen.
Y'all want them to come to themosque.
Y'all want them to come to thechurch.
Y'all want them to come toJehovah's Witness, to the
Jehovah's Hall, all that.
Y'all want them to show up.
Y'all want the kids to come,but guess what y'all doing?
Wrong?

(39:22):
Islam.
None of those religions areaddressing the current condition
that the children deal withdaily.
They don't want to hear abouttrees crying, they want to
understand how they can do it.
Gang banging how is thisscripture going to help me
defeat drug, you know, substanceabuse?
They ain't getting the realtalks they want.
They want.
So it's like it's anothermethod to the madness.

(39:45):
And the method to the madnessfor me, what I'm dealing with
the youth is, is that I speak tothem in a language they
understand, and I'm notjudgmental when I'm speaking to
them in a language theyunderstand because, see, I was
15, 16, 17.
Shit, I had a crack addiction,I mean.
So what I'm doing, so what I'musing now, is the best part.

(40:06):
God is understanding, right,right.
So I'm showing thatunderstanding is not just
something that we utilize bylistening, but understanding is
an action.
Okay, draw that up, draw thatup.
Understanding is an action,because a person can tell you

(40:28):
yeah, I understand, but youdon't believe them until they
show you they understand.
And in some form or another,they will show you they
understand.
Okay, you see what I'm saying,right?

(40:48):
So our youth are show me,they're showing me god.
I come from the era of showingproof, one thing that the five
percent nation taught me.
That stayed with me ineverywhere I've walked and
traveled, every school, everychair I've sat in always show
and prove and never takeanything on face value.

Speaker 1 (41:14):
You go more with science.
You go to Africa.
After you come from Africa, youcome back to Syracuse.
Yeah, you come back to Syracuse.
What year?
And then what'd you do?
At that point, I came back in2000,.

Speaker 2 (41:30):
In the middle of 2010 .
Came back you know what I'msaying Lost everything.
I didn't, you know, because Igave up my house and all that.
When I went back for the fouryears, I had the intention of
not coming back.
My intention was to go, stay so, but Allah had other intentions
.
It was other intentions goingon, so ended up coming back,

(41:51):
came back, you know, came backhome From 2010 to like the
middle of 2000,.
No, from 2010 to like 2012,.
I was unemployed.
I couldn't find work.
It was just crazy that Icouldn't find work.
So what I did was I made work,I started using my martial arts.
I started teaching, doingclasses, trying to do workshops
and seminars, and I startedmaking jewelry.

(42:12):
Bro, I was the first one To makezinger beads of semi-precious
stones.
Nobody was doing this.
This is why I did it, becausenobody was doing it.
This is why I did it becausenobody was doing it, because I
understand the science ofreflexology.

(42:34):
You know these are linked toorgans, different things.
So when you so, when you'redoing so, when you're doing zikr
, you know you, you're usingthese fingers.
So now, imagine zikrin withsemi-precious stones.
Imagine zikrin with a quartz orlapis lazuli or any stone

(42:55):
that's been charged, okay.
Okay, you know what I'm saying.
You're dealing with a highscience, because the forefinger
and the thumb is the pituitaryand the pineal.
I used to say it all the timewhen the bloods do they, when
the bloods do it, they sign thebloods.
I did a video a long time agoon my YouTube page called gang

(43:16):
signs are mudras.
I did this before anybody.
This video probably was fromlike 2012, 2013.
Gang Signs Are Mudras and I wassaying about all of the
different types of signs thatthe gangs throw up.
They're actually mudras, andmudras are used for meditation
and so on and so forth.
I was like yo, if the bloods,if the bloods held this, if the

(43:38):
bloods held this, if the Bloodsheld this like they throw their
Bloods on them, if they heldthis like this for about 30
minutes, they'd be so damnpeaceful man they wouldn't want
to shoot nobody man.
It's like in martial arts whenwe do connections, if we

(43:58):
meditate hands at the dantianunder the dantian thumbs,
touching tips of thumbs.
Touch under your hands.
You know what I'm talking about, right yes, sir it's the
channeling and the consistentcycling of energy.
But this is healing.
Mudras are healing.
These are healing, these arehealing things.

(44:20):
You know what I mean?
You know what I mean?
Put your fingers together, yeah.

Speaker 1 (44:27):
Yeah, we're going to have to build on that right
there.
That sounds like that soundskind of wild right there.

Speaker 2 (44:34):
Yo, yo, go check my video.
You get a chance.
Check my video, gang, when youget an opportunity.
Look up a mudra, Look up mudras.
Just look it up, You'll see allof the different mudras
yourself.
You'll be like, oh smack,that's a crypt sign.
But it's not a crypt sign.
The crypts are using mudras.
They don't know it.

Speaker 1 (44:54):
Wow yeah, I got to check that out now.
Wow, yeah, I got to check thatout now.
So now, ok, boom.
So now you're making the excusemy pronunciation, but dicker
beads, right.

Speaker 2 (45:05):
Yeah, yeah, so, yeah, so yeah.
I'm doing that.
Get money.
You know, all of a sudden I gota job in 2013.
I picked up a job working for acommunity.
I was, I was, I was a communityactivist, I mean community
organizer, and it was centeredaround the whole green, the
whole green energy thing.
Yeah, remember that.
Remember that time period.
Oh yeah, oh yeah, oh yeah, ohyeah.

(45:25):
So I was going through thecommunity.
We was talking about, you know,exchanges of energy and
boosting the energy, changing itover and all that type of stuff
.
I did that for a little while,got bored with it, continued to
do the martial arts and all that, and then I got into, um, the
mental health field co-occurringdisorders, mental health,
substance abuse and I was alwaysa part of that.

(45:46):
But I got more heavily into itand that's where I'm, that's
where I'm at now, pretty muchstill, but right now, currently,
um, I'm a federal case manager.
You know, I'm saying for the,for the feds.
I work in a halfway house.
So when cats come, when theycome home, when they get sent
out of the feds or whatever,they have to come to the halfway
house first and then wetransition them and prepare them

(46:08):
for to come back out in theworld, man.
So I'm doing a lot of therapywork up in there, fam.
It's a good place to be.
A lot of Muslim brothers up inthere.
Some gods is up in there.
I'm in the right place rightnow.
I'm also an author.
I wrote eight books.

Speaker 1 (46:26):
You know they can find your books on.

Speaker 2 (46:28):
Amazon.
Yeah, I have Amazon.
You can find them on Amazon.
All you got to do is just typein my name and then just type
author and they'll pop up.

Speaker 1 (46:40):
That's peace.
So now you got, you got thisjob, etc.
Now more is science.
How did you get into?
You know al-islam, as they callit oh, al-islam is just.

Speaker 2 (46:48):
It's just that I was never into al-islam, but I go
among societies.
I'm swift and changeablebrother.
I'm moving currents.
I can go anywhere and sitamongst anyone and you will
think that I'm that.
That's just how I've been bred.

(47:09):
I've been bred to know what I'mtalking about.
Remember, always, show and prove, never take anything on face
value.
Remember that Whenever I wasanywhere in my youth, I would
hear a voice, just like I did it.
Never take anything on facevalue.
And remember that.
That's that.
That.
Always yo.
Whenever I was anywhere in myyouth, I would hear a voice just
like, just like I did it alwaysshow, improve, never take
anything on face value.
This little voice in the back ofmy head would say it just like

(47:30):
that.
That's why I'm doing it thatway, because that's how I used
to hear it all the time.
So that was that allowed me tosit in so many different places
and gain what I needed to gainand take the best part for
myself, and so away was notuseful for me, right?
And then my thing was I wasable to take those things and
apply them and make it my ownand still keep my authenticity

(47:53):
without being something orsomebody that I'm not being
something or somebody that I'mnot.
See, the authentic man is thebest man because he's the one
who actually gets the accolades,and he gets the what's the word
I'm looking for.
He gets the honor fromeverybody because he's just him.

(48:13):
He's just a good, genuine humanbeing.
You just can't be a good,genuine human being being,
that's it, and you just can't bea good, genuine human being
being other than yourself,because everything else is an
act.

Speaker 1 (48:25):
Actual fact.
Yeah well, that's word, word.
That's how I try to be Not try,I don't even try, I'm just
myself.

Speaker 2 (48:34):
You're very authentic , bro.
You're very authentic man andit's a good thing.
See, I tell people you want tohave your own, you want to be
authentic, right?
I mean, that is the marker ofyour character, is your
authenticity.
Because we're individuals.
We're all here sharing anexperience, but as individuals

(49:02):
because you got to go to yourhome, I got to go to mine there
has to be something about thecharacter in an individual that
makes him or her accepted, notbecause they're trying to be
accepted, but wherever they gothey're naturally accepted.
It's because of the spirit thatyou have, man.
Some of us just have good.
It's just a natural inclination.
It's called you know, know,they call it fitra.
The natural fitra of man Isrighteousness, okay, but I've

(49:26):
seen some souls where thenatural fitra Was evil, bro.
I know Some evil people.
They've been evil since theycame out the womb.

Speaker 1 (49:39):
Geez Me too.
Right evil since they came outthe womb, jeez Me too.

Speaker 2 (49:43):
Right, you know what I'm saying.
It's like yo, they be like yo.
God made evil.
You know what bothers me,brother?
In our community they havethese debates about things.
To me that makes no difference,Right?
So they're arguing about goodand evil.
You may have seen I spoke aboutit on Facebook, you may have
even seen the post, but I spokeabout it.

(50:05):
My thing is this who cares ifGod made good or evil?
Just know that God made man.
Just know that you weren'tabout good or evil, but God made
man.
So if good or evil exists butGod made man so, if good or evil
exists, it's within man Ideasand choices and behaviors to
make good or evil manifestitself or whatever it is.

(50:27):
So you're talking about God,but God just made man.
Right.

Speaker 1 (50:32):
Actual fact.
So that's peace.
So now we took you up withIslam.
Now I see you have.
So that's peace.
So now we took you up withAl-Islam.
Now I see you have.
You have the yeah, the prayermark.

Speaker 2 (50:48):
A lot of prostration.
One thing I want to tell peopleis that when they see this,
it's from prayer, it's frommeditation.
But remember, prostration isolder than Al-Islam.
Pr.
Prostration is older than Islam.
Prostration is older than Islam.
Many, many, many societiesprostrate.

(51:08):
Prostration, it's a sciencebehind it.
It's an exercise.
Prostration is actually whatthey call an asana A-S-A-N-A A
pose.
All of the positions of salatis yoga.
It's all yoga.

Speaker 1 (51:31):
Listen, making salat, I did it some years back.
I just wanted to learn thereligion.
Some years back I took to learnthe the religion some years
back, so I took out and all thatand I like make us a lot.
You start feeling your quads,all that like you're getting
stretched.
So like you break that down alittle bit yes, yes, so, yeah,

(51:55):
so.

Speaker 2 (51:55):
So a lot is simply in asana.
It's it.
It has health benefits.
You just mentioned some of them.
Yeah, I mean, it's stretch.
When you're doing the stretch,when you're doing your roof,
when you're in this position,when you hear it, man, not only
are you working your hamstringsand all that and your knees and
all that, but you also work inyour kidneys and your liver when
you breathe, because thebreathing is different in that

(52:16):
position.
Your liver when you breathe,because the breathing is
different in that position, thesame as when you're prostrating.
And also, if you know arabic,each position of salat is a
letter standing.
This is aleph.
When you stand straight up, yougot it's aleph, daleth and men.
Okay, aleph is A, daleth is Dand mem is M, a-d-m, what's that

(52:45):
?

Speaker 1 (52:48):
Adam, adam, oh, oh, okay, okay.

Speaker 2 (52:55):
Okay, yeah, you know what I'm saying.
That's another thing with, with, with, with, with the arabic
language, the science ofperufism, which is the science
of the letters, mystical letters, the letters of the letters of
the arabic alphabet are used fortalismans, for invocation, for

(53:16):
all types of magic.
It's all types of magic thatgoes on in Islam, bro, what
people call voodoo, and all thatit's in Islam.
You got shakes like in Senegaland all that, bro.
It's deeper than what peoplesee.
I'm a mystic brother.
This is why I've been throughall these places, because they

(53:37):
have mystical sides.
Every religion has a mysticalside and every society has
mysticism attached to it, evenin our own history, here on
these shores, there's a thingcalled hoodoo.
I'm strongly into hoodoo.
I'm writing a book on it rightnow.
Hoodoo People.
Oh, brother, you bugging.

(53:58):
No, I'm not bugging.
I'm brother, you bugging.
No, I'm not bugging.

Speaker 1 (54:00):
I'm far, I'm far from bugging, so the the hoodoo uh
pronunciation is different fromvoodoo, yeah.
Now, what's the difference,though?

Speaker 2 (54:09):
well, hoodoo is.
Hoodoo is what's on theseshores.
It is a combination of whatcame from africa as well as
what's here with from nativeamericans, and you know what I'm
saying.
So it's a combination of whatwe created spiritually.
It's a combination Like whenyou think about the South.
I don't know where your familyis from originally.
They may just all be from NewYork period.

(54:29):
Nah, we got South.

Speaker 1 (54:31):
The South Okay.

Speaker 2 (54:33):
So what part of?

Speaker 1 (54:33):
the South Texas and South Carolina and Florida.
Okay, cool.

Speaker 2 (54:39):
So the south, uh uh, texas and uh, south carolina,
south carolina and florida, okay, cool.
So south carolina, definitelyany any of your family from
south carolina will know whatI'm talking about.
Hoodoo is always found in theprayer houses.
Most, most, most prayer housecreatures were Hulu root workers

(55:03):
.
They were roots, root workers.
If the hospital was 50 milesaway, who do you think they got?
Who do you think healed thepeople in the village?
The Hulu man.
But not only could he heal, hecould do other things too, and
it was the use.

(55:23):
See, hulu is the ability to useall of the natural elements the
plants, the herbs, the bees,the wasps.
Why would you use a bee or awasp?
Why would you use a scorpion?
Why would you use a bee or awasp?
Why would you use, why wouldyou use a scorpion?
Why would you use a lizard withvenom?
Why would you use things likethat?
Those are for protection, forwarding off and doing other

(55:46):
things with.
That's also warfare.
Imagine crushing thosepoisonous things up into a
powder and blowing it insomebody's face.
They call it magic, but weusing science, it looked like
magic.
Right, it was actual science,bro.
Yeah, actual science.
So that's.

(56:08):
That's where I'm at right now.
I've always my family's frommississippi, my mother and
father from mississippibackwoods, and so it's in my DNA
, bro.
You know it was funny becausewhen I did the DNA test right
and I did one probably withinthe last eight or nine years is

(56:32):
when I did it, bro.
What's funny, buddy G, is thateverything that I've ever done
in my life that I participatedin it's in my DNA, literally.
Remember I told you aboutShanti Imani, the African dance
troupe?
Is there, the Yoruba Africandance troupe?
So I get my DNA back.
I'm Yoruba and Igbo.

Speaker 1 (56:54):
Oh, wow.

Speaker 2 (56:56):
Right, I get another genome test done and it's
Moorish and Yoruba, my oldestancient societies Moorish,
yoruba and Kemetic.
It didn't say Kemetic, it gavethe name of something Egyptian,

(57:17):
some type of name, I don'tremember.
But the point is is thateverything that I touched or
tied to is in my DNA?
Hoodoo, voodoo, I studiedvoodoo, I studied Santaria, I
studied Palo, I studiedCandomblé.
Study all of those systems asyou should.
You should touch everything youcan and gain something from it.

(57:40):
You never know when you'regoing to need it.
You never know who you're upagainst.
You never know what a person isthinking.
The most powerful weapon aperson has is thought.
You can think someone out ofexistence.
You can think someone out ofexistence.

Speaker 1 (58:04):
Man, I got a story, I got some stories about that man
.
I'm sure you do, I'm sure youdo, I'm sure you do.
I know At one point I had someevil eyes on me and shit just
started happening Like deer werejumping out of nowhere.
I'm getting in a car accidentLike yo.

(58:27):
Yeah, People know the hate thatthis person had for me was so
deep.
You get what.

Speaker 2 (58:36):
I'm saying, bro, it happened to me numerous times.
I had brothers that I thoughtwas my brothers.
I'm working, remember, I toldyou I was working at the
Southwest Community Center, youknow, and I had a booth area
where my computer was my deskand everything, and right next
to my desk is a radiator like alittle radiator along the wall.

(58:57):
So I'm sitting at my desk oneday and something just said yo,
look down.
I looked down at the radiatorand I saw some white paper
inside the radiator.
I'm like what the fuck is this?
So I reach in and I'm pullingit out, I open it up and it's a
talisman.
It's a Zodiac talisman with mybirth date in it and a bunch of
planetary signs in differenthouses with oppositions, both in

(59:19):
oppositions and everything.
So I took it I say nothing, Iknow who did it.
I took it to the cred, took itto a particular area, put a
black candle on top of it, wrotethe person's name on the side
of the candle, put a blackcandle on top of it, wrote the
person's name on the side of thecandle, burnt the candle, took

(59:40):
the paper, wrapped it up inblack thread and buried.
That shit, old boy, ain't beenthe same.

Speaker 1 (59:52):
Hmm, yeah, we got to build on that.
We got to build on that.
Yo, on that, note, note,brother, thank you for coming
out this evening.
really appreciate you, man thatwas a solid, solid hour build
right there very thorough.
Really appreciate you.
You gotta come back up.
You gotta come back up.
Whenever you ready, let me know.

(01:00:13):
Thank you for everybody in thechat.
Really appreciate y'all forchecking in and we are out of
here peace.
Thank you for everybody in thechat.
Really appreciate y'all forchecking in and we are out of
here Peace.

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