May 27, 2025 • 52 mins
Raw, vulnerable, and profoundly moving, our conversation with Dr. Paul Dyer peels back the layers of military service and the complex journey of healing that follows. As Memorial Day approaches, this episode offers a rare glimpse into the mind and heart of a veteran struggling with the weight of his experiences while helping others navigate similar paths.Dr. Dyer doesn't hold back as he shares his emotional journey through military service, revealing how the bonds formed between soldiers transcend all societal divisions. "We learned each other, brothers at arms," he explains, his voice breaking with emotion as he recalls comrades lost and relationships forged in the crucible of service. These connections, built under extreme circumstances, fundamentally reshape how veterans view themselves and the world around them.The conversation takes a fascinating turn as we explore the concept of "moral injury" – trauma that occurs when actions in war conflict with one's moral code. But Dr. Dyer challenges us to consider a provocative question: who creates that moral code to begin with? This philosophical exploration cuts to the core of veteran healing, examining how society expects conformity after experiences that have permanently altered a person's understanding of humanity.As an emotional scientist and therapist, Dr. Dyer offers profound insights into the healing process. He emphasizes the importance of finding the right therapeutic approach – one that acknowledges where you truly are before attempting to move forward. His methodical, scientific approach to emotional healing provides a roadmap not just for veterans, but for anyone navigating trauma.Perhaps the most powerful moment comes in Dr. Dyer's closing words: "We serve for you, we died for you, we bled for you, and we will continue to do so, whether you honor us or not. Because that's our code.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
all right, what's going on?
Everybody out there is ronbrown, lmt, the people's fitness
professional, alongside myco-host, mikey fever, and this
is a new yorker's perspective.
And we are talking aboutperspective.
And we are talking aboutMemorial Day Reflections,
healing Through Honor andRemembrance with Dr Paul Dyer, a
veteran.
(00:32):
A veteran.
Speaker 1 (00:33):
Salute to all our veterans out there armed forces.
Thank you for your service.
You know what I'm saying Forthose who passed on.
You'll always be rememberedwith honor and grace.
Peace to all, peace to grace.
Peace to all.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
Peace to all.
Peace to all.
Got Dr Paul Dyer in thecheck-in tonight.
What's going on, dr Paul Dyer,how are you feeling?
Speaker 3 (00:55):
I am feeling somber, but I'm well.
Speaker 1 (01:00):
Dr Dyer, I know why he's somber it's the Bronx.
It's that Bronx water.
Dr Dyer, I know why he's somberit's the Bronx.
Speaker 3 (01:06):
It's that Bronx water .
I'm not feeling somber for theBronx because the Knicks are
back in it.
You know we're 2-1.
We should have been we reallyshould be 2.
We should be up to one.
(01:26):
It looks like we're one-two,but we're going to handle a lot
of paces.
We're going to be okay.
Speaker 1 (01:36):
None of that tonight.
Speaker 3 (01:38):
No, no, it's going to be okay.
It's going to be okay.
You know, here's the thing withthe Knicks I'm so happy.
You know, here's the thing withthe Knicks, I'm so happy.
You know, my daughter'sbirthday was just Friday.
Happy birthday Happy birthdayand I remember when she was born
(01:59):
, when the Knicks were playingthe Bulls and in the playoffs.
I remember that and this was 20, 34 years no, this is 30 plus
(02:24):
years ago and when she was inthe labor room and my wife at
the time God rest her soul shewas a Michael Jordan fan and she
(02:47):
was just an antagonistic person.
She was like because all ofthose people around her were
Knicks fans, of course, and shewas rooting.
This is back when it was insideNBA with Ahmad Rashad.
(03:13):
When she was born, she couldn'twait to get inside to deliver
the baby so she can have and seeinside stuff when the baby was
born, so she can watch the NBAfinals on that Saturday, so the
(03:38):
Knicks could play the Bulls.
That's how much of a fan we allwere at that time.
So I just cried on her birthdaybecause it was a long time
before the Knicks played thatNBA finals or it wasn't a finals
(04:00):
but the semifinals, so it was avery emotional time for me, so
I remember crying.
Speaker 1 (04:08):
God rest her soul.
Man for real yeah man, peace toher, peace to her Peace.
Speaker 2 (04:14):
To her my condolences and all that I wanted to talk
to you about the Memorial DayReflections healing through
Honor and Remembrance.
So you're a veteran, yeah, okay.
And with this title, what comesto mind?
Speaker 3 (04:40):
We're always real on this show.
We really are always real onthis show.
We really are always real onthis show and I don't think I've
ever.
I am, I'm stumbling because I'mfinding back the tears.
I'm finding back the tears.
(05:00):
I don't want to, I don't want to.
We are always real on the showbecause it's the truth of the
show.
Right, it's the truth of theshow.
Being a soldier, I've been asoldier for 15, it's been a long
(05:30):
time, a long time, and I'vegone through a long time of
service, of military service,and I chose to be of this
service and I chose to be ofthis service and that is okay to
(05:51):
choose to be of service and toreflect on my service, and it's
okay.
But if I want to go back to justthinking about people who were
chosen, who didn't have a choice, the Vietnam people they didn't
(06:14):
have a choice and I want to saythank you.
I want to say thank you tothose people Because a lot of
those people were my instructorswhen I was in the military.
A lot of those people were not.
(06:36):
They didn't choose to be, theywere chosen because it's a
little double-edged sword Rightbecause and they embedded in me
a sense of urgency, a sense ofurgency to live, a sense of
(07:07):
urgency to perform.
Urgency to live, a sense ofurgency to perform, a sense of
urgency to adapt, a sense ofurgency to listen, a sense of
urgency to understand.
(07:28):
Take your time, brother, a senseof urgency to understand what
was being portrayed to you soyou can live a longevity of life
, so you can prosper.
That was portrayed to me, withthose veterans who has been
(07:52):
there, done that, and I adhereto them, I bow to them, I bled
to them, I bled for them and Itook that in a sacred manner.
(08:14):
And everything I've ever donein my service walk, I wanted to
make them proud because of whatthey went through and I carried
(08:38):
it with them as a token.
I did.
It wasn't about so much of Godand country.
It wasn't Because when I joinedthe service, it was a
reflection of I want to see whatthe other side was, because,
(09:12):
from my family perspective waslearn what the man was teaching,
learn what the man wasdisseminating, learn what the
man meaning the white man wastrying to control you, learn
what the man was emanating ontop of you and see how you can
(09:40):
navigate your way through.
I had the schooling.
I had the education.
It's not about the educationalso, but when I got into the
(10:01):
service, there was a differentworld about what it was and what
it was not, and what it was wasa lot of bloodshed.
Wow, what it was was a lot oflies, was a lot of lies.
(10:27):
What it was was a lot offalseness, but what it was also
was a lot of truth in humanity.
Talk about it.
In humanity, talk about it.
(10:48):
And that's my heartbreak,because the person next to me
had a life, the person next tome had a story, the person next
to me had its own sad story.
(11:09):
Yeah, it had its own struggle.
Like I joined from New York, Iwent to Newark Station.
By the time I got to SouthCarolina, I'm next to people
from Georgia and all kinds ofdifferent places, and it didn't
(11:35):
matter the race, color, creedand their prejudices.
We were there together and welearned each other Brothers at
arms Right and we learned abouteach other, brothers at Arms
Right, and we learned about eachother Like meeting people
who've never seen a Black personbefore, who's never seen snow
(11:56):
before, who's never witnessedanything before, but we learned
each other together and thatcreated a bond that was
inseparable to this day I'm 58.
Wow, I remember them to thisday.
(12:20):
And then, moving through mytravels, through the military,
whatever, I love them to thisday, I miss them.
Speaker 1 (12:43):
Sorry brother.
Speaker 3 (12:45):
I lost them, I missed them, I lost them, and people
try to separate us between raceand religion, and people try to
separate us between the colorsof our skin.
(13:09):
And we're just humans.
Speaker 1 (13:16):
My brother, my brother Dyer, I'm a love for you
, love you, brother.
I understand your pain and thisis what you know, brother Ron
and I be talking about.
You, brother, I understand yourpain and this is what brother
Ron and I Be talking aboutamongst ourselves.
How we were raised,unfortunately, the condition and
indoctrination From what thiscountry has done, and when I say
country, individuals that pushthis propaganda of hate and race
(13:39):
.
We know what takes place, butit's continually perpetuated on
television and I always say Ifyou strip away all these ideals,
these prejudices and bigotry,you'll see that we all have the
same concerns.
It's family.
We want food, clothes andshelter, we want safety, but
(13:59):
then it's just this I don't wantto say illusion, because this
cancer of hate, it seeps throughpeople if you allow it to take
control of you.
You know, and that's what I,you know, we with you, brother,
I understand man, you know whatI'm saying and every other
veteran out there, because Iknow many of them are going
(14:20):
through it today and every day.
Speaker 3 (14:22):
Yeah, you know, I'll go into it today and every day,
yeah, but then we see, you know,today I saw a news article on
the Minneapolis Times and itsaid Remember George Floyd Today
(14:59):
, full page Remembering GeorgeFloyd.
This has nothing to do withGeorge Floyd, but remembering
George Floyd today, really, whatthe flipping George Floyd
(15:23):
Really.
And I'm like I'm twisted, I'mkind of hurt, I'm sad, I'm
frustrated, I'm angered.
There's a lot of emotionsthrough it.
And then we go into people talkabout moral injury.
(15:49):
And how do we heal through moralinjury, something so traumatic
that happens in your life, in mylife or anyone's life, that
(16:09):
says can you heal through amoral injury, something that
affected you so much that itdismantled your moral code?
That it dismantled your moralcode?
And I'm thinking what did webring ourselves up on that we
(16:36):
introduce ourselves into a humansociety?
What could create a moral codethat disrupted so much, that
created such a implosion, thatcreated a damaging moral code,
(17:08):
that you're saying that I havemoral injury and you're saying
that I need to heal from,because that's what you're
saying that soldiers are have amoral injury, because you're
(17:28):
saying that a moral cold is weshould not have ever killed
someone, or Moral cold is weshould never have killed someone
, or we should never have amoral cold, that we should never
have done anything.
Or what about the person whogrew up in a gang society who
(17:54):
said that I should have neverjoined a gang to have survived
it?
Now I'm living on a good sideand I have a moral code that I
should have never lived it.
So I have a moral injury.
What was my moral code prior tothat?
(18:16):
Who dictated my moral code?
My environment or you?
Who was it that subsidized mymoralness?
Was it you?
Was it me?
(18:36):
Because that's the question,because if you go to a therapist
, they're like well, you havemoral injury.
Okay, my moral injury is broken.
Speaker 2 (19:00):
Where did you grow up For real?
So?
But my question to you is is it?
Is it?
Is it you know when you'reseeking for therapy or for help?
I mean, would it be best tofind someone that comes from the
same environment and had thesame experience?
Speaker 3 (19:27):
I say I say personally, yes, who has lived
through it Like I have livedthrough it and I'm on the other
side.
I'm suffering, I have sufferedand I've seen the sunshine.
Speaker 1 (19:46):
Yeah, yeah, hmm, oh man.
Speaker 3 (19:53):
But it doesn't mean I don't feel the pain still today
.
Because if you tell me, youshowing me a Star Tribune full
page about George Floyd on todayand saying, remember, when I'm
(20:21):
fucking pissed off Because I'mremembering my brothers and
sisters who have lost theirlives, who have serviced their
lives, who have serviced theirlives for this country I'm not
talking about whether youbelieve for the political or for
(20:44):
whatever.
They laid their fucking livesdown for their fucking country.
No, I understand brother, Iunderstand brother, I'm not
talking about the George Floydswho says well, it was for
fucking cigarettes.
Speaker 1 (21:03):
The purpose.
Speaker 3 (21:04):
The purpose I got you .
Speaker 1 (21:15):
Oh man.
Speaker 3 (21:16):
Is it all just a political raggle?
Speaker 1 (21:21):
that's my problem am I?
Speaker 3 (21:23):
am I just a pawn for your succession?
Speaker 1 (21:29):
yes, yes, dr die, unfortunately, what you said,
because I dated somebody thatwas in the military before and I
used to see what they used togo through.
Ron knows you know what I'msaying.
I'm not going into detail and Ido go to service their country
and some go for opportunities tobetter their lives and what
(21:58):
they face, as you said, throughpropaganda lies.
Can we start seeing things fromboth sides of the battlefield?
Because a soldier will see itfrom both sides Like what am I
doing here, just like the othersoldier?
We're here to fight becausehigher power sent us here, but
they don't see that.
You know you're basicallyinnocent, but I got to act in a
(22:19):
certain way to be rewarded, avictor for my country.
And you know when you come backto society you're being either
paraded for or paraded against.
You understand.
So I know how, you know whatyou're going through, man, I'm
sorry brother.
Speaker 3 (22:35):
There are women who have never, there are people who
have never seen combat, whohave been prosecuted because
they've been manipulated in theranks, raped, abused and
persecuted, and their wordsabused and persecuted, and their
(22:57):
words will never be heard,because they've been squashed
because of who they are, whatcolor they are and where they
are oh man, anything to say ronI mean, right now I'm just like
(23:20):
just listening, man.
Speaker 2 (23:21):
You know, this is like, uh, I'm just taking all
this in, you know what I mean?
Speaker 1 (23:26):
yeah, man it's just it's crazy, it's crazy now.
Speaker 2 (23:31):
Now I want to talk about, talk about the process of
healing.
You know you said you know youhave people you've lost and you
miss them, and you know what isthe process of healing through
this.
Speaker 3 (23:49):
You know, ron, I got you know.
You know, Ron, I got you knowFor me, it takes For me.
Speaker 2 (24:23):
It takes asking for help.
Speaker 3 (24:27):
Okay, I'm a really super smart person and I, too,
have to ask for help.
Speaker 1 (24:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (24:39):
I too have to sit in the group therapy with the three
, the five, the six to 10 peoplein the circle jerk.
I have to, too, have the grouptherapy.
I have to, too, have the grouptherapy.
I have to, too, have the singletherapy.
I have to, too, have thetherapy group, and I'm a
(25:05):
therapist.
Speaker 1 (25:11):
But a person who tries to therapize their own
self is a fool.
Speaker 3 (25:15):
That's a fool.
I am not alone.
I don't want to be alone intodoing this by myself.
I have to seek the help that Iknow I can seek, and the best
thing I can say is to seektherapy.
(25:37):
I too have to say that throughmy molestation as a small boy, I
have to come to terms with.
I was damaged as a boy.
Speaker 1 (25:53):
I was damaged as a boy.
Speaker 3 (26:07):
I have to immerse myself into immersion therapy,
to say that I was damaged before, before before.
So I can be healed, so I can behappy, so I can be the man that
I want to be a father, so I canbe a husband, so I can be a
(26:37):
husband.
So I can be the man.
So I can be the scientist, so Ican teach, so I can teach, so I
can be a part of humanityBecause I'm alive.
(27:12):
That's the first part.
I'm alive.
I have to learn how to be alive.
Speaker 1 (27:29):
I respect that and you hear you survive all those
obstacles.
You hurdle them.
Look at the accomplishments youhave made you understand but
now it's now.
Speaker 3 (27:41):
It's now it's once you survive, learn how to be
alive.
Speaker 1 (27:46):
That's that's that right, that's true that right
there, survivor's guilt is areal thing.
I um, when we first startedinterviewing you you know I'm
saying I mentioned that to you Ihad survivor's guilt at the
time.
You know what I'm saying.
Three of my friends I watcheddie in front of me, and that's
(28:10):
recently my uncle.
So I know how that feelssometimes.
You know what I'm saying.
You feel alone in that verymoment, you know.
But you know, as you said, tobe alive, to fulfill your
purpose is that's the crutchthat works for me, you know, and
(28:33):
that's it.
Speaker 3 (28:35):
And I've said this before.
My mother said this and I'vesaid this before.
If mother said this and I'vesaid this before If you're going
to grow to be a strong tree,drop fruit so other people can
eat.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (28:51):
Man, this is true man .
Yeah, man, I wasn't expectingthis.
So, moving forward now healing,going to a therapist.
Now, what kind of therapistcould basically help with this,
(29:17):
with, with, uh, veterans?
Speaker 3 (29:21):
you know, ron, I, I I don't want to put because we
all have to find the righttherapist right there, and I and
I, I really do.
It's like finding the rightpersonal trainer.
It really really is.
It's finding the right personaltrainer.
(29:41):
It is hard.
It is hard because so manypeople think, so many people
find the right doctor, try tofind the right doctor, right
personal therapist, right tofind a personal trainer, the
right personal that fits them.
(30:03):
There's so many people out thereand I wish I could give you the
questionnaire and I've come upwith a couple of questions.
The questions I have, the topthree is who are you?
That's my first question.
(30:25):
My second question is what haveyou been through?
My third question is what doyou see my way forward?
And I know those are obligatoryquestions.
(30:49):
It seems like they're so random.
They're not, because if you askme those questions, I can give
you the answers I would give you.
If you ask me who am I, I'm theperson that would seek a
solution that is best for you,not for me and not for your
(31:10):
money.
If you don't have it, we'llwork our way around it, because
your health is more importantthan my money.
Speaker 1 (31:27):
That's deep man Indeed.
Speaker 3 (31:30):
I mean, everybody knows.
I mean the person that comes tome for my therapy or whoever
contacts me understands that Icharge $200 an hour.
But you don't have $200 an hour, but you need my help.
We'll work it out.
We will work it out Because youhave something that we can work
(31:58):
something out.
I'm just telling you.
Speaker 2 (32:02):
Okay, so now, as an emotional scientist, you offer
your services so to a combatveteran.
What would that session be like?
Speaker 3 (32:21):
What would that session be like?
The session is we call we'regoing to dig, we're going to dig
, we're going to dig, and what Imean is we're going to dig the
foxhole.
If you're a veteran, you kindof know what that means.
We're going to have to dig thatsix by six, and that six by six
(32:47):
is either going to be yourburial or it's going to be your
lively.
We're going to dig becausewe're going to find out where
you are, because sometimes youmay not know where you are and I
need to find out where you are,and I need to find out where
you are with you, because Idon't know where you are.
(33:14):
And you don't know where you are.
So how can we find out how toheal you if you don't even know
where you are?
So we both need to find outwhere this egg hunt is.
You know what I mean.
So that's where we need tobegin.
(33:34):
That's where it begins Findingout where you are.
In therapeutic terms, it'simmersion therapy.
That's immersion therapy.
We need to find out what iswhat, Because right now we know
(33:57):
what has been caused.
We know the know what has beencaused.
We know the causation has beena divorce, troubled, messed up
family.
We know what has been caused,but we don't know where you are.
Speaker 2 (34:20):
You know, I never really thought about that Right
Like.
So you know, I always that's.
I don't I don't really talk tomany people about my personal
business, like that Right, butlike, um, I lost a few people
like back to back to back toback, growing up, right, right
and and like really close and um, you know, I had to just live
(34:45):
through it.
I had to just like just gothrough life and just keep going
.
You know, I just and justhaving that experience, I just
can't imagine going, you know,in the army or whatever army
rangers and you just watch yourbest friend just like be like
(35:06):
back to back to back and thenstill have to go out and live
life.
Speaker 1 (35:11):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (35:13):
Like yeah.
Speaker 2 (35:15):
Yeah, I never thought about that.
Yeah, what type of neverthought about that.
Speaker 3 (35:18):
Yeah, what type of social code does that exist Like
?
What type of checkmark doesthat present as Like?
What type of interview doesthat create?
Right, Right.
Let's go to Bloomingdale's,right, ron.
(35:40):
I am a department manager atBloomingdale's and you come to
me for a job.
Let's do that job.
Let's do that job.
Go ahead, ron.
Sit in front of me atBloomingdale's and let's do that
Right.
So tell me about yourself.
(36:00):
Yeah, I mean you are a you know.
It seems like you're dedicatedbecause you went to the military
.
Check what else.
What else can you tell me aboutyourself?
Speaker 1 (36:18):
Mm-hmm, yeah, it's.
What else can you tell me aboutyourself?
Speaker 2 (36:20):
Yeah, it's like you, sure you want to know.
Speaker 3 (36:24):
Right, like what else .
Speaker 1 (36:27):
You got a code switch and somehow you know subdue
what you're feeling.
Speaker 3 (36:31):
What's the code switch?
Speaker 1 (36:37):
What I mean is that you can't express like this is
who I am.
What got to?
I got to be professional withyou and be courteous and smile
for you, so I can't tell youwhat I'm really feeling like.
You know, and I got to endureyour little policies in here,
your little I always feel likethat.
Speaker 3 (36:50):
So what about this statement Like tell me the most
difficult time you had to dealwith with a with a team member,
that you had to deal with a teammember that you had to overcome
?
Go ahead, Ron.
Speaker 1 (37:07):
Nope.
Speaker 3 (37:11):
Well, it sounds like you're invasive, so I don't
think you belong without team.
You're like you really fuckingwanna.
What the fuck team You're like.
You really fucking want to.
What the fuck dude?
You're like wow, do you want tohear my story?
Speaker 1 (37:25):
Mm-mm, I'm telling you.
A bunch of willies, a bunch oflittle soft people, as you
mentioned, who hasn'texperienced nothing.
Speaker 2 (37:35):
Right, that's what he was saying earlier.
Yeah, I can't stand those punksbro, I'm sorry.
You know what, mike, I feltlike that, but you got to kind
of also understand them too,though.
Speaker 1 (37:48):
I understand they come from the other side of the
fence.
Speaker 2 (37:50):
They come from a Cucciney life Right, so it's
like they are not what you callit.
Speaker 1 (37:58):
They don't come from a diverse background, they
didn't go through a lot and sonow you know, and that's why I
be saying you're protectedwithin these four walls here
because you got an HR.
But in my environment, fromwhere we're from, we don't have
an HR.
Get your head popped off hereearly.
Let's stop playing.
Speaker 3 (38:18):
But when we talk about a moral, think about it.
When we talk about moral injury, who creates the moral code?
Speaker 2 (38:34):
Damn.
Yeah, you said that.
Who creates the moral code,though?
Corporate America?
Maybe?
Speaker 3 (38:43):
The social environment creates a moral code
.
Speaker 1 (38:47):
Mm-hmm Unwritten.
Speaker 3 (38:53):
So as we grow up, we have a mental code, that's we
have a moral society.
Thou shalt not steal that orthis right.
(39:14):
So I go into an environment ofa civic society, I join
something, I go do things thatis against the moral code, but
it's for the right that it's forthe people who created the
(39:42):
moral code.
Speaker 2 (39:43):
That's crazy.
That's a mind fuck right theretomorrow cold.
That's a mindfuck right there,whoa, whoa, understood.
Speaker 3 (39:58):
So it creates a distress inside my personal self
that I'm supposed to heal, so Ican be belonging back into a
civic society, so I can be asocial conformant.
Speaker 1 (40:16):
Exactly.
Speaker 2 (40:20):
Damn.
Speaker 1 (40:22):
Yep.
Speaker 2 (40:24):
You can apply the same thought with coming from
the ghetto.
Speaker 3 (40:28):
Yeah, correct which, which is comes from it, was it's
, it's zemology.
Zemology is a study of socialharm.
Zemology.
Speaker 2 (40:43):
Check that out.
Speaker 3 (40:45):
Z-mology, z-e-m-i-l-g-l-o-y, right
Z-mology, and that's socialharms.
So that's where people look atchromology from a person that's
doing harm to a society.
(41:06):
What did you come up with, ron?
Speaker 2 (41:12):
It's basically exactly what you said.
So zymology is a field of studythat focuses on the analysts of
social harms, moving beyond thetraditional focus of crime and
criminal justice.
It examines how variousactivities, processes and
circumstances can cause harm thetraditional focus of crime and
criminal justice.
It examines how variousactivities, processes and
circumstances can cause harm,including those that are not
(41:34):
legally defined as crimes.
Speaker 3 (41:44):
So if a person's doing things right because they
grew up in a certain environmentthat creates a social injury,
they are implemented in zomology, which creates social harm.
They actually have studied them.
That pushes them off intozomology, which puts them into a
whole different category, whichsays that's them, not us.
Speaker 2 (42:20):
Oh wait a minute, man .
I didn't know this was coming,man.
Speaker 1 (42:23):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (42:24):
Damn Yo.
People got to see this episode,crazy.
Hold on one second.
Go ahead, mike.
Speaker 1 (42:30):
Go ahead, kick it no, it's just everything that you
said.
I look, oh, it's beautiful man.
Certain moral ethics peopledon't have where we come from,
and even still, although we wemay acquire these certain social
norms and you, you know idealsand codes.
We still know how to behave.
That's what I was saying withcode switching.
We know how to go intodifferent environments and we
(42:52):
still trying to be respectful toyour, to how you do things when
in Rome.
Do things in Rome Because Iknow within my world you would
have died.
But because we're here with you, I got to be cool with you, but
you would have died.
I'm telling you that's groundsfor death.
That's grounds for death.
You never see, when you're inthe office, somebody does
(43:17):
something like, yeah, you wouldhave died for that.
Speaker 3 (43:19):
But you're like you know, or get slapped, yeah,
exactly.
Speaker 2 (43:30):
That's why, when you're talking to a therapist,
is the therapist trying to getyou to into a social norm?
Of what norm?
That's why I'm asking who's thebest therapist?
Yeah, because even like, evenlike, when you, when you talk
about um, uh, like, let's say um, let's say, uh, family therapy
or whatever, right, right, andyou're going there for, like,
marriage or you know somethinglike that, and you know the
(43:53):
woman is imparting herperspective of society on the
wife, and then the wife iscoming back like, you know, kind
of brainwashed and allwashed.
You know what I'm saying.
So, like, what you're sayingright now is so key, it's so key
(44:15):
.
So my thing is like, doestherapy or therapists do they
need like some kind of newrenaissance, a change?
Speaker 3 (44:27):
no, it's just understand what therapists and
what Do they need?
Some kind of new Renaissanceand a change?
No, just understand whattherapists and what their
directives are, because ifyou're talking To a Polygamist
therapist, it's a wholedifferent outcome.
Right, yeah, I mean I'm justthrowing it out there, right,
right, I mean I'm just throwingit out there, right, right.
Speaker 2 (44:52):
So, basically, whatever fits your situation,
that's the therapist you want to.
You want to Hire, so to speak,yep.
Speaker 3 (45:02):
So to speak.
But if you're trying to heal,when we're talking about healing
, where do you want to heal andhow far do you want to heal and
what direction do you want toheal to?
But if we want to heal to thegreater light and the ultimate
light to the east, understandwhat therapist you're attracting
(45:25):
to.
Speaker 2 (45:31):
Okay, okay, so now as far as what you offer, can you
explain that?
Speaker 3 (45:43):
Yes, I can explain, because I'm going to dig into
who you are and what you thinkyou are and where you think you
think you belong.
And that's difficult for people, because people think they
(46:06):
belong to something that wassubjected to.
Speaker 1 (46:15):
Deep right there.
Oh my God, Yo, it took me in mythirties.
I discovered it.
I already knew from my youngage.
But to act it out hit mythirties, Wow, 30s.
I discovered it.
Speaker 2 (46:29):
I already knew from my young age but to act it out,
hit me in my 30s.
Wow, I think that's why youwere saying remember we were
talking about early on doing thepodcast.
I was talking about emotionalscience, emotional and social
and emotional intelligence, andyou were like I wasn't getting
it at the time.
And you were like I wasn'tgetting it at the time, but you
were like social, emotionalintelligence, the way it's
(46:54):
taught, they're teaching you howto basically conform.
Basically, that's what you weresaying Exactly.
I'm just getting that today.
Yeah, everything he's saying isso true, like, when you you you
gotta like.
Like.
If you listen to everythinghe's saying from the beginning
to now, it's all like comingtogether.
Speaker 1 (47:14):
it is so it's okay to react if, prime example and I
hate to say this it's not takingaway ron's.
Ron is a witness to this.
I was in a situation wherethere was a explosion in the
house, right ron, I was thereand when he came over he's like
I'm surprised you're not beingchaotic.
He was like yo, why you so calm?
For I'm like I can't.
I can't function that way.
That's how people want me toreact.
(47:35):
I gotta step out to understandwhat's going on.
Speaker 2 (47:40):
Like you know, you know why I said that?
Because, like, when you saidthere was an explosion, right,
I'm drive down.
Yeah, I'm like oh shit, anexplosion.
No, this bro dude's placeexploded.
Like gotta get down there,right.
Speaker 1 (47:55):
And I get to you and you're like yeah, just chilling,
like yeah because, because Iwasn't there for the full thing,
but still it's just I had tolike I was always.
You know what I'm saying.
When growing up, I seen whenthings get frantic around me and
how people react instead oflike the solution is, the
(48:16):
solution can be right there, butthey just so busy.
I'm like, if you just pull backbecause to me I look at the
situation that wants you toreact that way, I'm like I have
to respond to it.
I can't react.
You know what I'm saying?
Speaker 2 (48:29):
Right, right right, right, right.
So you were explaining yourpractice.
You said you're going to digdeep, right, what else?
What else?
Can you give us a little more?
Speaker 3 (48:44):
Because I'm a scientist.
What else Can you give us alittle more?
Because I'm a scientist, youknow I've been through the blood
, I've been through the tears.
I'm not an emotional reactional.
I want to dig through.
Your neurotransmitters arefunctional and reactionary
(49:09):
because of your environmentalfunctionary.
I want to understand and then Iwant to explain the science to
you.
I don't want to convey myfunctions to you, I want to
explain the science to you, whatis relaying from you.
(49:33):
That's why I'm a scientist.
I'm a scientist.
I'm not a magician.
I am not a soothsayer.
I am a magician.
I am not a soothsayer, I am ascientist.
I explain the science, all thesciences.
(49:55):
Whether it's you praying upon arock, the smells, the scents,
the, whatever it is that youcome across, I can explain the
science of why it infers insideyou and the chemicals and not
(50:21):
the philosophy.
I can explain the philosophy inthe science, but I can explain
the science.
Speaker 2 (50:28):
Which is, I would say , most important.
So, before we go, is thereanything that you want to say?
Before we close, Memorial DayReflections Healing Through
Honor and Remembrance, oh.
Speaker 3 (50:46):
We serve for you, we died for you, we bled for you
and we will continue to do so,whether you honor us or not.
Damn that's it.
(51:07):
Because that's our code.
Speaker 2 (51:13):
Yo, on that note, peace, salute to the soldiers,
peace, salute, peace.
all right, what's going on?
Everybody out there is ronbrown, lmt, the people's fitness
professional, alongside myco-host, mikey fever, and this
is a new yorker's perspective.
And we are talking aboutperspective.
And we are talking aboutMemorial Day Reflections,
healing Through Honor andRemembrance with Dr Paul Dyer, a
veteran.
(00:32):
A veteran.
Speaker 1 (00:33):
Salute to all our veterans out there armed forces.
Thank you for your service.
You know what I'm saying Forthose who passed on.
You'll always be rememberedwith honor and grace.
Peace to all, peace to grace.
Peace to all.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
Peace to all.
Peace to all.
Got Dr Paul Dyer in thecheck-in tonight.
What's going on, dr Paul Dyer,how are you feeling?
Speaker 3 (00:55):
I am feeling somber, but I'm well.
Speaker 1 (01:00):
Dr Dyer, I know why he's somber it's the Bronx.
It's that Bronx water.
Dr Dyer, I know why he's somberit's the Bronx.
Speaker 3 (01:06):
It's that Bronx water .
I'm not feeling somber for theBronx because the Knicks are
back in it.
You know we're 2-1.
We should have been we reallyshould be 2.
We should be up to one.
(01:26):
It looks like we're one-two,but we're going to handle a lot
of paces.
We're going to be okay.
Speaker 1 (01:36):
None of that tonight.
Speaker 3 (01:38):
No, no, it's going to be okay.
It's going to be okay.
You know, here's the thing withthe Knicks I'm so happy.
You know, here's the thing withthe Knicks, I'm so happy.
You know, my daughter'sbirthday was just Friday.
Happy birthday Happy birthdayand I remember when she was born
(01:59):
, when the Knicks were playingthe Bulls and in the playoffs.
I remember that and this was 20, 34 years no, this is 30 plus
(02:24):
years ago and when she was inthe labor room and my wife at
the time God rest her soul shewas a Michael Jordan fan and she
(02:47):
was just an antagonistic person.
She was like because all ofthose people around her were
Knicks fans, of course, and shewas rooting.
This is back when it was insideNBA with Ahmad Rashad.
(03:13):
When she was born, she couldn'twait to get inside to deliver
the baby so she can have and seeinside stuff when the baby was
born, so she can watch the NBAfinals on that Saturday, so the
(03:38):
Knicks could play the Bulls.
That's how much of a fan we allwere at that time.
So I just cried on her birthdaybecause it was a long time
before the Knicks played thatNBA finals or it wasn't a finals
(04:00):
but the semifinals, so it was avery emotional time for me, so
I remember crying.
Speaker 1 (04:08):
God rest her soul.
Man for real yeah man, peace toher, peace to her Peace.
Speaker 2 (04:14):
To her my condolences and all that I wanted to talk
to you about the Memorial DayReflections healing through
Honor and Remembrance.
So you're a veteran, yeah, okay.
And with this title, what comesto mind?
Speaker 3 (04:40):
We're always real on this show.
We really are always real onthis show.
We really are always real onthis show and I don't think I've
ever.
I am, I'm stumbling because I'mfinding back the tears.
I'm finding back the tears.
(05:00):
I don't want to, I don't want to.
We are always real on the showbecause it's the truth of the
show.
Right, it's the truth of theshow.
Being a soldier, I've been asoldier for 15, it's been a long
(05:30):
time, a long time, and I'vegone through a long time of
service, of military service,and I chose to be of this
service and I chose to be ofthis service and that is okay to
(05:51):
choose to be of service and toreflect on my service, and it's
okay.
But if I want to go back to justthinking about people who were
chosen, who didn't have a choice, the Vietnam people they didn't
(06:14):
have a choice and I want to saythank you.
I want to say thank you tothose people Because a lot of
those people were my instructorswhen I was in the military.
A lot of those people were not.
(06:36):
They didn't choose to be, theywere chosen because it's a
little double-edged sword Rightbecause and they embedded in me
a sense of urgency, a sense ofurgency to live, a sense of
(07:07):
urgency to perform.
Urgency to live, a sense ofurgency to perform, a sense of
urgency to adapt, a sense ofurgency to listen, a sense of
urgency to understand.
(07:28):
Take your time, brother, a senseof urgency to understand what
was being portrayed to you soyou can live a longevity of life
, so you can prosper.
That was portrayed to me, withthose veterans who has been
(07:52):
there, done that, and I adhereto them, I bow to them, I bled
to them, I bled for them and Itook that in a sacred manner.
(08:14):
And everything I've ever donein my service walk, I wanted to
make them proud because of whatthey went through and I carried
(08:38):
it with them as a token.
I did.
It wasn't about so much of Godand country.
It wasn't Because when I joinedthe service, it was a
reflection of I want to see whatthe other side was, because,
(09:12):
from my family perspective waslearn what the man was teaching,
learn what the man wasdisseminating, learn what the
man meaning the white man wastrying to control you, learn
what the man was emanating ontop of you and see how you can
(09:40):
navigate your way through.
I had the schooling.
I had the education.
It's not about the educationalso, but when I got into the
(10:01):
service, there was a differentworld about what it was and what
it was not, and what it was wasa lot of bloodshed.
Wow, what it was was a lot oflies, was a lot of lies.
(10:27):
What it was was a lot offalseness, but what it was also
was a lot of truth in humanity.
Talk about it.
In humanity, talk about it.
(10:48):
And that's my heartbreak,because the person next to me
had a life, the person next tome had a story, the person next
to me had its own sad story.
(11:09):
Yeah, it had its own struggle.
Like I joined from New York, Iwent to Newark Station.
By the time I got to SouthCarolina, I'm next to people
from Georgia and all kinds ofdifferent places, and it didn't
(11:35):
matter the race, color, creedand their prejudices.
We were there together and welearned each other Brothers at
arms Right and we learned abouteach other, brothers at Arms
Right, and we learned about eachother Like meeting people
who've never seen a Black personbefore, who's never seen snow
(11:56):
before, who's never witnessedanything before, but we learned
each other together and thatcreated a bond that was
inseparable to this day I'm 58.
Wow, I remember them to thisday.
(12:20):
And then, moving through mytravels, through the military,
whatever, I love them to thisday, I miss them.
Speaker 1 (12:43):
Sorry brother.
Speaker 3 (12:45):
I lost them, I missed them, I lost them, and people
try to separate us between raceand religion, and people try to
separate us between the colorsof our skin.
(13:09):
And we're just humans.
Speaker 1 (13:16):
My brother, my brother Dyer, I'm a love for you
, love you, brother.
I understand your pain and thisis what you know, brother Ron
and I be talking about.
You, brother, I understand yourpain and this is what brother
Ron and I Be talking aboutamongst ourselves.
How we were raised,unfortunately, the condition and
indoctrination From what thiscountry has done, and when I say
country, individuals that pushthis propaganda of hate and race
(13:39):
.
We know what takes place, butit's continually perpetuated on
television and I always say Ifyou strip away all these ideals,
these prejudices and bigotry,you'll see that we all have the
same concerns.
It's family.
We want food, clothes andshelter, we want safety, but
(13:59):
then it's just this I don't wantto say illusion, because this
cancer of hate, it seeps throughpeople if you allow it to take
control of you.
You know, and that's what I,you know, we with you, brother,
I understand man, you know whatI'm saying and every other
veteran out there, because Iknow many of them are going
(14:20):
through it today and every day.
Speaker 3 (14:22):
Yeah, you know, I'll go into it today and every day,
yeah, but then we see, you know,today I saw a news article on
the Minneapolis Times and itsaid Remember George Floyd Today
(14:59):
, full page Remembering GeorgeFloyd.
This has nothing to do withGeorge Floyd, but remembering
George Floyd today, really, whatthe flipping George Floyd
(15:23):
Really.
And I'm like I'm twisted, I'mkind of hurt, I'm sad, I'm
frustrated, I'm angered.
There's a lot of emotionsthrough it.
And then we go into people talkabout moral injury.
(15:49):
And how do we heal through moralinjury, something so traumatic
that happens in your life, in mylife or anyone's life, that
(16:09):
says can you heal through amoral injury, something that
affected you so much that itdismantled your moral code?
That it dismantled your moralcode?
And I'm thinking what did webring ourselves up on that we
(16:36):
introduce ourselves into a humansociety?
What could create a moral codethat disrupted so much, that
created such a implosion, thatcreated a damaging moral code,
(17:08):
that you're saying that I havemoral injury and you're saying
that I need to heal from,because that's what you're
saying that soldiers are have amoral injury, because you're
(17:28):
saying that a moral cold is weshould not have ever killed
someone, or Moral cold is weshould never have killed someone
, or we should never have amoral cold, that we should never
have done anything.
Or what about the person whogrew up in a gang society who
(17:54):
said that I should have neverjoined a gang to have survived
it?
Now I'm living on a good sideand I have a moral code that I
should have never lived it.
So I have a moral injury.
What was my moral code prior tothat?
(18:16):
Who dictated my moral code?
My environment or you?
Who was it that subsidized mymoralness?
Was it you?
Was it me?
(18:36):
Because that's the question,because if you go to a therapist
, they're like well, you havemoral injury.
Okay, my moral injury is broken.
Speaker 2 (19:00):
Where did you grow up For real?
So?
But my question to you is is it?
Is it?
Is it you know when you'reseeking for therapy or for help?
I mean, would it be best tofind someone that comes from the
same environment and had thesame experience?
Speaker 3 (19:27):
I say I say personally, yes, who has lived
through it Like I have livedthrough it and I'm on the other
side.
I'm suffering, I have sufferedand I've seen the sunshine.
Speaker 1 (19:46):
Yeah, yeah, hmm, oh man.
Speaker 3 (19:53):
But it doesn't mean I don't feel the pain still today
.
Because if you tell me, youshowing me a Star Tribune full
page about George Floyd on todayand saying, remember, when I'm
(20:21):
fucking pissed off Because I'mremembering my brothers and
sisters who have lost theirlives, who have serviced their
lives, who have serviced theirlives for this country I'm not
talking about whether youbelieve for the political or for
(20:44):
whatever.
They laid their fucking livesdown for their fucking country.
No, I understand brother, Iunderstand brother, I'm not
talking about the George Floydswho says well, it was for
fucking cigarettes.
Speaker 1 (21:03):
The purpose.
Speaker 3 (21:04):
The purpose I got you .
Speaker 1 (21:15):
Oh man.
Speaker 3 (21:16):
Is it all just a political raggle?
Speaker 1 (21:21):
that's my problem am I?
Speaker 3 (21:23):
am I just a pawn for your succession?
Speaker 1 (21:29):
yes, yes, dr die, unfortunately, what you said,
because I dated somebody thatwas in the military before and I
used to see what they used togo through.
Ron knows you know what I'msaying.
I'm not going into detail and Ido go to service their country
and some go for opportunities tobetter their lives and what
(21:58):
they face, as you said, throughpropaganda lies.
Can we start seeing things fromboth sides of the battlefield?
Because a soldier will see itfrom both sides Like what am I
doing here, just like the othersoldier?
We're here to fight becausehigher power sent us here, but
they don't see that.
You know you're basicallyinnocent, but I got to act in a
(22:19):
certain way to be rewarded, avictor for my country.
And you know when you come backto society you're being either
paraded for or paraded against.
You understand.
So I know how, you know whatyou're going through, man, I'm
sorry brother.
Speaker 3 (22:35):
There are women who have never, there are people who
have never seen combat, whohave been prosecuted because
they've been manipulated in theranks, raped, abused and
persecuted, and their wordsabused and persecuted, and their
(22:57):
words will never be heard,because they've been squashed
because of who they are, whatcolor they are and where they
are oh man, anything to say ronI mean, right now I'm just like
(23:20):
just listening, man.
Speaker 2 (23:21):
You know, this is like, uh, I'm just taking all
this in, you know what I mean?
Speaker 1 (23:26):
yeah, man it's just it's crazy, it's crazy now.
Speaker 2 (23:31):
Now I want to talk about, talk about the process of
healing.
You know you said you know youhave people you've lost and you
miss them, and you know what isthe process of healing through
this.
Speaker 3 (23:49):
You know, ron, I got you know.
You know, Ron, I got you knowFor me, it takes For me.
Speaker 2 (24:23):
It takes asking for help.
Speaker 3 (24:27):
Okay, I'm a really super smart person and I, too,
have to ask for help.
Speaker 1 (24:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (24:39):
I too have to sit in the group therapy with the three
, the five, the six to 10 peoplein the circle jerk.
I have to, too, have the grouptherapy.
I have to, too, have the grouptherapy.
I have to, too, have the singletherapy.
I have to, too, have thetherapy group, and I'm a
(25:05):
therapist.
Speaker 1 (25:11):
But a person who tries to therapize their own
self is a fool.
Speaker 3 (25:15):
That's a fool.
I am not alone.
I don't want to be alone intodoing this by myself.
I have to seek the help that Iknow I can seek, and the best
thing I can say is to seektherapy.
(25:37):
I too have to say that throughmy molestation as a small boy, I
have to come to terms with.
I was damaged as a boy.
Speaker 1 (25:53):
I was damaged as a boy.
Speaker 3 (26:07):
I have to immerse myself into immersion therapy,
to say that I was damaged before, before before.
So I can be healed, so I can behappy, so I can be the man that
I want to be a father, so I canbe a husband, so I can be a
(26:37):
husband.
So I can be the man.
So I can be the scientist, so Ican teach, so I can teach, so I
can be a part of humanityBecause I'm alive.
(27:12):
That's the first part.
I'm alive.
I have to learn how to be alive.
Speaker 1 (27:29):
I respect that and you hear you survive all those
obstacles.
You hurdle them.
Look at the accomplishments youhave made you understand but
now it's now.
Speaker 3 (27:41):
It's now it's once you survive, learn how to be
alive.
Speaker 1 (27:46):
That's that's that right, that's true that right
there, survivor's guilt is areal thing.
I um, when we first startedinterviewing you you know I'm
saying I mentioned that to you Ihad survivor's guilt at the
time.
You know what I'm saying.
Three of my friends I watcheddie in front of me, and that's
(28:10):
recently my uncle.
So I know how that feelssometimes.
You know what I'm saying.
You feel alone in that verymoment, you know.
But you know, as you said, tobe alive, to fulfill your
purpose is that's the crutchthat works for me, you know, and
(28:33):
that's it.
Speaker 3 (28:35):
And I've said this before.
My mother said this and I'vesaid this before.
If mother said this and I'vesaid this before If you're going
to grow to be a strong tree,drop fruit so other people can
eat.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (28:51):
Man, this is true man .
Yeah, man, I wasn't expectingthis.
So, moving forward now healing,going to a therapist.
Now, what kind of therapistcould basically help with this,
(29:17):
with, with, uh, veterans?
Speaker 3 (29:21):
you know, ron, I, I I don't want to put because we
all have to find the righttherapist right there, and I and
I, I really do.
It's like finding the rightpersonal trainer.
It really really is.
It's finding the right personaltrainer.
(29:41):
It is hard.
It is hard because so manypeople think, so many people
find the right doctor, try tofind the right doctor, right
personal therapist, right tofind a personal trainer, the
right personal that fits them.
(30:03):
There's so many people out thereand I wish I could give you the
questionnaire and I've come upwith a couple of questions.
The questions I have, the topthree is who are you?
That's my first question.
(30:25):
My second question is what haveyou been through?
My third question is what doyou see my way forward?
And I know those are obligatoryquestions.
(30:49):
It seems like they're so random.
They're not, because if you askme those questions, I can give
you the answers I would give you.
If you ask me who am I, I'm theperson that would seek a
solution that is best for you,not for me and not for your
(31:10):
money.
If you don't have it, we'llwork our way around it, because
your health is more importantthan my money.
Speaker 1 (31:27):
That's deep man Indeed.
Speaker 3 (31:30):
I mean, everybody knows.
I mean the person that comes tome for my therapy or whoever
contacts me understands that Icharge $200 an hour.
But you don't have $200 an hour, but you need my help.
We'll work it out.
We will work it out Because youhave something that we can work
(31:58):
something out.
I'm just telling you.
Speaker 2 (32:02):
Okay, so now, as an emotional scientist, you offer
your services so to a combatveteran.
What would that session be like?
Speaker 3 (32:21):
What would that session be like?
The session is we call we'regoing to dig, we're going to dig
, we're going to dig, and what Imean is we're going to dig the
foxhole.
If you're a veteran, you kindof know what that means.
We're going to have to dig thatsix by six, and that six by six
(32:47):
is either going to be yourburial or it's going to be your
lively.
We're going to dig becausewe're going to find out where
you are, because sometimes youmay not know where you are and I
need to find out where you are,and I need to find out where
you are with you, because Idon't know where you are.
(33:14):
And you don't know where you are.
So how can we find out how toheal you if you don't even know
where you are?
So we both need to find outwhere this egg hunt is.
You know what I mean.
So that's where we need tobegin.
(33:34):
That's where it begins Findingout where you are.
In therapeutic terms, it'simmersion therapy.
That's immersion therapy.
We need to find out what iswhat, Because right now we know
(33:57):
what has been caused.
We know the know what has beencaused.
We know the causation has beena divorce, troubled, messed up
family.
We know what has been caused,but we don't know where you are.
Speaker 2 (34:20):
You know, I never really thought about that Right
Like.
So you know, I always that's.
I don't I don't really talk tomany people about my personal
business, like that Right, butlike, um, I lost a few people
like back to back to back toback, growing up, right, right
and and like really close and um, you know, I had to just live
(34:45):
through it.
I had to just like just gothrough life and just keep going
.
You know, I just and justhaving that experience, I just
can't imagine going, you know,in the army or whatever army
rangers and you just watch yourbest friend just like be like
(35:06):
back to back to back and thenstill have to go out and live
life.
Speaker 1 (35:11):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (35:13):
Like yeah.
Speaker 2 (35:15):
Yeah, I never thought about that.
Yeah, what type of neverthought about that.
Speaker 3 (35:18):
Yeah, what type of social code does that exist Like
?
What type of checkmark doesthat present as Like?
What type of interview doesthat create?
Right, Right.
Let's go to Bloomingdale's,right, ron.
(35:40):
I am a department manager atBloomingdale's and you come to
me for a job.
Let's do that job.
Let's do that job.
Go ahead, ron.
Sit in front of me atBloomingdale's and let's do that
Right.
So tell me about yourself.
(36:00):
Yeah, I mean you are a you know.
It seems like you're dedicatedbecause you went to the military
.
Check what else.
What else can you tell me aboutyourself?
Speaker 1 (36:18):
Mm-hmm, yeah, it's.
What else can you tell me aboutyourself?
Speaker 2 (36:20):
Yeah, it's like you, sure you want to know.
Speaker 3 (36:24):
Right, like what else .
Speaker 1 (36:27):
You got a code switch and somehow you know subdue
what you're feeling.
Speaker 3 (36:31):
What's the code switch?
Speaker 1 (36:37):
What I mean is that you can't express like this is
who I am.
What got to?
I got to be professional withyou and be courteous and smile
for you, so I can't tell youwhat I'm really feeling like.
You know, and I got to endureyour little policies in here,
your little I always feel likethat.
Speaker 3 (36:50):
So what about this statement Like tell me the most
difficult time you had to dealwith with a with a team member,
that you had to deal with a teammember that you had to overcome
?
Go ahead, Ron.
Speaker 1 (37:07):
Nope.
Speaker 3 (37:11):
Well, it sounds like you're invasive, so I don't
think you belong without team.
You're like you really fuckingwanna.
What the fuck team You're like.
You really fucking want to.
What the fuck dude?
You're like wow, do you want tohear my story?
Speaker 1 (37:25):
Mm-mm, I'm telling you.
A bunch of willies, a bunch oflittle soft people, as you
mentioned, who hasn'texperienced nothing.
Speaker 2 (37:35):
Right, that's what he was saying earlier.
Yeah, I can't stand those punksbro, I'm sorry.
You know what, mike, I feltlike that, but you got to kind
of also understand them too,though.
Speaker 1 (37:48):
I understand they come from the other side of the
fence.
Speaker 2 (37:50):
They come from a Cucciney life Right, so it's
like they are not what you callit.
Speaker 1 (37:58):
They don't come from a diverse background, they
didn't go through a lot and sonow you know, and that's why I
be saying you're protectedwithin these four walls here
because you got an HR.
But in my environment, fromwhere we're from, we don't have
an HR.
Get your head popped off hereearly.
Let's stop playing.
Speaker 3 (38:18):
But when we talk about a moral, think about it.
When we talk about moral injury, who creates the moral code?
Speaker 2 (38:34):
Damn.
Yeah, you said that.
Who creates the moral code,though?
Corporate America?
Maybe?
Speaker 3 (38:43):
The social environment creates a moral code
.
Speaker 1 (38:47):
Mm-hmm Unwritten.
Speaker 3 (38:53):
So as we grow up, we have a mental code, that's we
have a moral society.
Thou shalt not steal that orthis right.
(39:14):
So I go into an environment ofa civic society, I join
something, I go do things thatis against the moral code, but
it's for the right that it's forthe people who created the
(39:42):
moral code.
Speaker 2 (39:43):
That's crazy.
That's a mind fuck right theretomorrow cold.
That's a mindfuck right there,whoa, whoa, understood.
Speaker 3 (39:58):
So it creates a distress inside my personal self
that I'm supposed to heal, so Ican be belonging back into a
civic society, so I can be asocial conformant.
Speaker 1 (40:16):
Exactly.
Speaker 2 (40:20):
Damn.
Speaker 1 (40:22):
Yep.
Speaker 2 (40:24):
You can apply the same thought with coming from
the ghetto.
Speaker 3 (40:28):
Yeah, correct which, which is comes from it, was it's
, it's zemology.
Zemology is a study of socialharm.
Zemology.
Speaker 2 (40:43):
Check that out.
Speaker 3 (40:45):
Z-mology, z-e-m-i-l-g-l-o-y, right
Z-mology, and that's socialharms.
So that's where people look atchromology from a person that's
doing harm to a society.
(41:06):
What did you come up with, ron?
Speaker 2 (41:12):
It's basically exactly what you said.
So zymology is a field of studythat focuses on the analysts of
social harms, moving beyond thetraditional focus of crime and
criminal justice.
It examines how variousactivities, processes and
circumstances can cause harm thetraditional focus of crime and
criminal justice.
It examines how variousactivities, processes and
circumstances can cause harm,including those that are not
(41:34):
legally defined as crimes.
Speaker 3 (41:44):
So if a person's doing things right because they
grew up in a certain environmentthat creates a social injury,
they are implemented in zomology, which creates social harm.
They actually have studied them.
That pushes them off intozomology, which puts them into a
whole different category, whichsays that's them, not us.
Speaker 2 (42:20):
Oh wait a minute, man .
I didn't know this was coming,man.
Speaker 1 (42:23):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (42:24):
Damn Yo.
People got to see this episode,crazy.
Hold on one second.
Go ahead, mike.
Speaker 1 (42:30):
Go ahead, kick it no, it's just everything that you
said.
I look, oh, it's beautiful man.
Certain moral ethics peopledon't have where we come from,
and even still, although we wemay acquire these certain social
norms and you, you know idealsand codes.
We still know how to behave.
That's what I was saying withcode switching.
We know how to go intodifferent environments and we
(42:52):
still trying to be respectful toyour, to how you do things when
in Rome.
Do things in Rome Because Iknow within my world you would
have died.
But because we're here with you, I got to be cool with you, but
you would have died.
I'm telling you that's groundsfor death.
That's grounds for death.
You never see, when you're inthe office, somebody does
(43:17):
something like, yeah, you wouldhave died for that.
Speaker 3 (43:19):
But you're like you know, or get slapped, yeah,
exactly.
Speaker 2 (43:30):
That's why, when you're talking to a therapist,
is the therapist trying to getyou to into a social norm?
Of what norm?
That's why I'm asking who's thebest therapist?
Yeah, because even like, evenlike, when you, when you talk
about um, uh, like, let's say um, let's say, uh, family therapy
or whatever, right, right, andyou're going there for, like,
marriage or you know somethinglike that, and you know the
(43:53):
woman is imparting herperspective of society on the
wife, and then the wife iscoming back like, you know, kind
of brainwashed and allwashed.
You know what I'm saying.
So, like, what you're sayingright now is so key, it's so key
(44:15):
.
So my thing is like, doestherapy or therapists do they
need like some kind of newrenaissance, a change?
Speaker 3 (44:27):
no, it's just understand what therapists and
what Do they need?
Some kind of new Renaissanceand a change?
No, just understand whattherapists and what their
directives are, because ifyou're talking To a Polygamist
therapist, it's a wholedifferent outcome.
Right, yeah, I mean I'm justthrowing it out there, right,
right, I mean I'm just throwingit out there, right, right.
Speaker 2 (44:52):
So, basically, whatever fits your situation,
that's the therapist you want to.
You want to Hire, so to speak,yep.
Speaker 3 (45:02):
So to speak.
But if you're trying to heal,when we're talking about healing
, where do you want to heal andhow far do you want to heal and
what direction do you want toheal to?
But if we want to heal to thegreater light and the ultimate
light to the east, understandwhat therapist you're attracting
(45:25):
to.
Speaker 2 (45:31):
Okay, okay, so now as far as what you offer, can you
explain that?
Speaker 3 (45:43):
Yes, I can explain, because I'm going to dig into
who you are and what you thinkyou are and where you think you
think you belong.
And that's difficult for people, because people think they
(46:06):
belong to something that wassubjected to.
Speaker 1 (46:15):
Deep right there.
Oh my God, Yo, it took me in mythirties.
I discovered it.
I already knew from my youngage.
But to act it out hit mythirties, Wow, 30s.
I discovered it.
Speaker 2 (46:29):
I already knew from my young age but to act it out,
hit me in my 30s.
Wow, I think that's why youwere saying remember we were
talking about early on doing thepodcast.
I was talking about emotionalscience, emotional and social
and emotional intelligence, andyou were like I wasn't getting
it at the time.
And you were like I wasn'tgetting it at the time, but you
were like social, emotionalintelligence, the way it's
(46:54):
taught, they're teaching you howto basically conform.
Basically, that's what you weresaying Exactly.
I'm just getting that today.
Yeah, everything he's saying isso true, like, when you you you
gotta like.
Like.
If you listen to everythinghe's saying from the beginning
to now, it's all like comingtogether.
Speaker 1 (47:14):
it is so it's okay to react if, prime example and I
hate to say this it's not takingaway ron's.
Ron is a witness to this.
I was in a situation wherethere was a explosion in the
house, right ron, I was thereand when he came over he's like
I'm surprised you're not beingchaotic.
He was like yo, why you so calm?
For I'm like I can't.
I can't function that way.
That's how people want me toreact.
(47:35):
I gotta step out to understandwhat's going on.
Speaker 2 (47:40):
Like you know, you know why I said that?
Because, like, when you saidthere was an explosion, right,
I'm drive down.
Yeah, I'm like oh shit, anexplosion.
No, this bro dude's placeexploded.
Like gotta get down there,right.
Speaker 1 (47:55):
And I get to you and you're like yeah, just chilling,
like yeah because, because Iwasn't there for the full thing,
but still it's just I had tolike I was always.
You know what I'm saying.
When growing up, I seen whenthings get frantic around me and
how people react instead oflike the solution is, the
(48:16):
solution can be right there, butthey just so busy.
I'm like, if you just pull backbecause to me I look at the
situation that wants you toreact that way, I'm like I have
to respond to it.
I can't react.
You know what I'm saying?
Speaker 2 (48:29):
Right, right right, right, right.
So you were explaining yourpractice.
You said you're going to digdeep, right, what else?
What else?
Can you give us a little more?
Speaker 3 (48:44):
Because I'm a scientist.
What else Can you give us alittle more?
Because I'm a scientist, youknow I've been through the blood
, I've been through the tears.
I'm not an emotional reactional.
I want to dig through.
Your neurotransmitters arefunctional and reactionary
(49:09):
because of your environmentalfunctionary.
I want to understand and then Iwant to explain the science to
you.
I don't want to convey myfunctions to you, I want to
explain the science to you, whatis relaying from you.
(49:33):
That's why I'm a scientist.
I'm a scientist.
I'm not a magician.
I am not a soothsayer.
I am a magician.
I am not a soothsayer, I am ascientist.
I explain the science, all thesciences.
(49:55):
Whether it's you praying upon arock, the smells, the scents,
the, whatever it is that youcome across, I can explain the
science of why it infers insideyou and the chemicals and not
(50:21):
the philosophy.
I can explain the philosophy inthe science, but I can explain
the science.
Speaker 2 (50:28):
Which is, I would say , most important.
So, before we go, is thereanything that you want to say?
Before we close, Memorial DayReflections Healing Through
Honor and Remembrance, oh.
Speaker 3 (50:46):
We serve for you, we died for you, we bled for you
and we will continue to do so,whether you honor us or not.
Damn that's it.
(51:07):
Because that's our code.
Speaker 2 (51:13):
Yo, on that note, peace, salute to the soldiers,
peace, salute, peace.
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