March 15, 2024 • 32 mins
Angela Jackson is the founder of Future Forward Strategies, an award winning social entrepreneur, a global C-suite executive and an experienced board member. In this episode Angela discusses joining the board of Needham bank, a mutual bank that took itself public in December 2023, as well as her research – and her vison – of the future of work.
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Big Ideas/Thoughts/Quotes:
1. Needham Bank Board of Directors and the decision to take the Bank public
Angela discusses some of the reasons that she was interested in joining the Needham Bank Board of Directors.
“The CEO, Joe Campanelli, is really a visionary leader with the strategy to support”
“As a board, when we talked about the reason for going public, this is right after Silicon Valley Bank had folded and we had the banking crisis, and…a lot of banks had put a lot of restrictions on their lending. We all felt – led by Joe, that if we were to IPO at this time, we would actually have more cash to put on the street to invest in local entrepreneurs and business leaders.”
Another reason to go public was around the values behind that. “They [management] wanted to do the IPO so they could invest in an employee stock ownership program, and for me and my work around the future of work, I deeply believe in companies and CEOs who are really seeing their employees as shareholders and the fact that we wanted to use the funds and to ensure that everyone from the frontlines to the C-suite could be an owner in a bank was significant.”
“…we looked at building a foundation that we could invest in local communities. For over a century, we had a history as a mutual community bank, and so we wanted to continue that. The vision is still how can we be national, but also hyper-local at the same time.”
We [the board] were completely aligned with how we wanted to use the money. It was values based to really invest in the community, who we're investing in, the talent and people, and then making sure that we were just being a good neighbor.
“… one more piece that struck me when I saw the board listing for Needham Bank…they were looking for someone with HR and human capital experience. If you look at most board listings, that is very rare. Most boards are looking for someone who's been a sitting CEO or a CFO, maybe someone in technology. You rarely see a listing for a human resource person.”
2. Ringing the Closing bell at NASDAQ
“It was an exciting moment for all of us.”
“We're based here outside Boston in Needham and we're going to go to New York for the NASDAQ…We thought, how are we going to get everyone from the bank to New York, and so they came up with the idea that we're going to take these coach buses from Needham Bank, and it would travel to New York.
“Now, you would think any bank CEO who's deciding to do this, maybe they would fly in, and they would be there to meet e
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:05):
Hello and welcome to On Boards, a deepdive at what drives business success.
I'm Joe Ayoub and I'm herewith my co-host Raza Shaikh.
Twice a month, On Boards is theplace to learn about one of the most
critically-important aspects of anycompany or organization - its board
of directors or advisors - withthe focus on the important issues
(00:26):
that are facing boards, companyleadership and stakeholders.
Joe and I speak with a wide range ofguests and talk about what makes a board
successful or unsuccessful, what it meansto be an effective board member, and
how to make your board one of the mostvaluable assets of your organization.
Our guest today is Dr.
(00:46):
Angela Jackson.
Angela is the founder of Future ForwardStrategies, a labor market intelligence,
design thinking and strategy firmthat assists leaders with transforming
organizations and human capitalstructure to maintain competitiveness
while creating positive impact.
She's also an award-winning socialentrepreneur, a Global C-Suite executive,
(01:11):
and an experienced board member.
Angela is a lecturer at Harvard GraduateSchool of Education, as well as the
architect of the Future of Work GrandChallenge, an initiative to rapidly
reskill 25, 000 displaced workers intoliving wage jobs within 24 months.
(01:32):
Among the boards on which Angela servesis the board of Needham Bank located
outside Boston, a board on which Ialso serve, and she is the author of
a book entitled Win-Win Workplace thatwill be published in January 2025.
Welcome, Angela.
It's great to have youhere today as our guest.
(01:53):
Thank you, Joe and It's great to be here.
Let's just start with a littlebackground, because even though we've
given an introduction, talk a littlebit about your background, because I
think there are so many components thatgo into what makes you, in my mind,
a terrific board member, and I thinkit's worth going through a little bit.
(02:14):
I'll say a couple ofthings about my background.
One is I started out my career as anoperator so I built new businesses,
domestically and internationally,for Viacom and for Nokia.
I transitioned out there and launchedmy own company that I ran and that
was venture backed for eight years.
After I had exited, I decided to go backto do my doctoral degree, and I was just
(02:38):
really fascinated at the time around thefact that I had been an entrepreneur, I
didn't know the statistics about being anentrepreneur at that time, that by being
a woman, a woman of color, that the oddsare that I was going to have difficulty
raising money and raise less money.
For me, although raising money waschallenging, I was able to successfully
(02:59):
do that, and again, know, I raisedabout $10 million in venture funds
by the time I exited to a partner.
But after that experience, I wasreally interested in investing in women
and understanding how capital flows.
After my doctoral degree, I beganworking with a venture philanthropy firm
and raised about a $50 million fund oneconomic mobility and investing in HR
(03:24):
and workforce tech that really helped totrain people for the future of work and
jobs that don't even exist today, andand that really started my deep research
in the future of work and understandingthe technologies, the business practices
that make for a sustained workforce, butalso impacts positively the bottom line.
(03:47):
Fantastic.
Last year you joined the board of NeedhamBank as Raza said in the introduction.
That's a mutual bank that decidedto take itself public, which it
did, in December of last year andquite successfully, I might add.
Let's start with this, what weresome of the factors that led
you to decide to join the board?
(04:10):
Well, I think the big one is just startingwith the IPO and the reason behind it.
The CEO, Joe Campanelli, isreally a visionary leader.
At the time, a lot of companies'IPO because it's about the
money that they can bring in.
It's about the accolades behind it.
As a board, when we talked about thereason for going public, this is right
after Silicon Valley Bank had foldedand we had the banking crisis, and
(04:35):
what was happening here locally inBoston is that a lot of banks had put
a lot of restrictions on their lending.
There are a lot of small business ownersthat were out there and entrepreneurs
who needed access to capital, and wefelt, and our leadership know, led by
Joe, if we were to IPO at this time,we would actually have more cash to
put on the street to invest in theseentrepreneurs and business leaders.
(04:58):
The second part was aroundthe values behind that.
They wanted to do the IPO so they couldinvest in an employee stock ownership
program, and for me and my work aroundthe future of work, I deeply believe
in companies and CEOs who are reallyseeing their employees as shareholders
and the fact that we wanted to use thefunds and to ensure that everyone from
(05:21):
the frontlines to the C-suite couldbe an owner in a bank was significant.
And then the third place, we lookedat building a foundation that we
could invest in local communities.
For over a century, we had a historyas a mutual community bank, and
so we wanted to continue that.
The vision was still howcan we be national, but also
(05:43):
hyper-local at the same time.
We were just completely alignedwith how we wanted to use the money.
It was values based to really invest inthe community, who we're investing in, the
talent and people, and then making surethat we were just being a good neighbor.
I was sold by that.
And I'd say there's just one morepiece that struck me when I saw
the board listing for Needham Bank.
(06:04):
They had in there that theywere looking for someone with
HR and human capital experience.
If you look at most boardlistings, that is very rare.
Most boards are looking for someonewho's been a sitting CEO or a CFO,
maybe someone in technologies.
You rarely see that listingfor a human resource person.
Why that's important?
(06:26):
Through my research at Harvard University,you mentioned I'm a lecturer on the
future of work, the future of boards isgoing to be really important how we're
thinking about human capital, and we'veseen that since the pandemic, that there
is a lot of risk and opportunities aroundhow we're centering our workers and our
employees, and so it really signaledto me that the bank was future forward
(06:49):
in their thinking around their humancapital, and so that sealed the deal.
I was ready to sign on.
Well, thank you for mentioning thosepoints, some great points, one of
which I want to take up, which isthe board spec and talking about
someone who was a chief peopleofficer or someone in human capital.
Lots of companies say that their mostimportant asset or one of the most
(07:13):
important assets are their employees,but very few actually back that up
with what they do, and everythingyou said about Joe Campanelli as a
visionary leader, I couldn't agree more.
As you both know, I was fortunateenough to work with Joe and his senior
team in recruiting five board membersto this board, you and Raza were two
(07:36):
of them, and it was a great journey,they were so dedicated to finding
the right kind of board composition.
And as you said, they really wereincredibly thoughtful, but what do we need
on this board to make it the best boardwe can have to support a public offering
(07:57):
and to support the senior management aswe go public and, obviously, now to be
the board of a public company, which bygoing public is fun, a lot of work for for
them, obviously, but the being public isa different kind of challenge for a board.
In that regard, I wanted to ask you alittle bit about a couple of things.
First of all, about the board's role asyou were discussing this and how they
(08:22):
brought it to you and how the boardtalked about it, you kind of started
that, and then I do want to end upwith something a little more fun, which
is the ringing of the closing bell.
I have pictures of both you andRaza and others that day at NASDAQ.
I have to say it looked like a lot of fun.
(08:42):
Yeah, it was definitely a lot of fun,and I would just say when we're thinking
about the organization Needham Bank.
They were very intentional.
When we were brought on, JoeCampanelli was really future thinking
and saying, "What type of boarddo we need to meet this moment?
(09:05):
We know where we want to go.
We know that we want to growso that we can better serve the
community and our customers.
Who do we need around the tableif we're going to go public?"
If you look at our board, the diversityof experiences, if you look at the
makeup and gender of the board, forexample, we have three women who are
on the board and in the current state,we have less than 30% of women who
(09:29):
are serving on boards internationally,that's future thinking in itself.
I mentioned the sitting CEO, wehad a cyber expert, so all of the
things that boards are facing inthis current context, we have people
who have expertise in addressing it.
So, when we're sitting around the boardseat and thinking about whether we go
public, it's helpful to have someone who'sa sitting CEO who's saying, "Okay, these
(09:54):
are what the conditions I'm saying here."
It's great that we have someone who'sa deep financial expert who's taken
a lot of other companies public tosay, "Okay, these are the headwinds.
These are the pros and cons."
It's helpful to have a cyber expertto talk about, "This is the type of
microscope that we're going to be over."
Truly what was phenomenal about thoseconversations is that everyone had a voice
(10:17):
and it was really a mutual decision thatwe came to, like this is going to be not
only right for the bank, it's right forour client, it's right for our talent at
the bank, and It was exciting on how wedid that and did it as a team, especially
the newly-formed team, and I could tellyou, I tell my friends who asked me, how
was it going through the IPO process?
(10:39):
It's intense.
It is serious.
And I think anyone who is thinking aboutgoing public, really making sure that
you have the right team of advisors thatare around you, and we had the best in
class legal team, et cetera, it helpsand it also helps to have the board
members who have done this before andwho actually want to lean in and lean
into the thought of being an independentdirector, and that's why we're there to
(11:02):
to speak up and to make sure that thebank are aasking the questions to make
sure the bank is making the right decisionfor the moment, and I felt that we did.
Thank you.
Before we go on, talk a littlebit about the closing bell.
Oh, my God, Joe.
I would love to talkabout the closing bell.
It was just an excitingmoment for all of us.
We're based here in Boston in Needhamand we're going to go to New York for the
(11:25):
NASDAQ, and I talk about Joe a lot, andagain, I have so much respect for him.
We thought, how are we going toget everyone from the bank to New
York, and so they came up withthe idea that we're going to take
these coach buses from Needham Bankand it would travel to New York.
Now, you would think any bankCEO who's deciding to do this,
maybe they would fly in and theywould be there to meet everyone.
(11:47):
Actually, Joe jumped on the bus witheveryone else, shoulder to shoulder, to
make that five-hour plus journey to NewYork and to take it back to be there.
The enthusiasm, the camaraderie, itwas really the feeling of what had
happened, that we did this, from thefront lines to the C-suite, it was
(12:07):
because of the effort of the people inthe bank that were all customer facing,
some that are internal, that made thismoment happen, and so it was amazing.
We get in this room, the people whocouldn't be there, we had videos of
them up front, and it really feltlike a family affair, just pure joy.
(12:27):
And then I think afterwards, we knewwhat this moment meant, that we were
able to go back to our communityand even better serve our customers.
That is fantastic.
It did look like a lot of fun andit certainly sounds like it was.
I didn't realize thateveryone went up together.
So, since you joined the board, whatare some of the practices that the board
(12:50):
has adopted, that in your view, havereally worked to improve governance?
Some of the big practices that we've hadthat have improved governance that's just
starting out the sense of transparency.
When you think about the relationshipbetween the board and the management,
there are many ways that that can go.
And one thing that I appreciated as Istarted out is that we have full access
(13:14):
to the management and we're encouragedto have mutual relationships with
them so that if they need to come tous for something as a board, we can.
If we have a question, we canhave comfortability going to them.
And I think that transparencyand access is key to really
understand what's happening andhow we can best advise as a board.
(13:34):
The second thing we do as a greatpractice is just really taking advantage
of executive sessions, and this issomething that Raza brought to the
board that was just really critical.
What are the conversations that wecan have directly with management?
What are the conversations thatwe can have directly as a board
and making sure that, again, thatwe're advising, that we're getting
(13:55):
the information that we want.
The third practice is, and I don'tknow how this is for other boards,
but I have to tell you, we all reallyhave a deep mutual respect for each
other, and that shows in the boardroomon how we work and how we govern.
That just makes for a really strongerteam, and then there are things we
(14:17):
do as just a practice of policy thatany meeting that we have, regardless
of whether you're on a committee ornot, those meetings are open to you.
For me, that's important because itprovides not only visibility, but also
learning opportunities that someonecan come and sit in, and for example,
I know I came and sit down and we haveeveryone, the enterprise risk committee.
(14:40):
I learned so muchthroughout those meetings.
I'm on the audit committee.
I'm on the nom gov committee.
But when you think about enterprise risk,risk happens in every single area, and so
when I'm sitting in that committee, I'mthinking with my nomination and governance
hat on, what are the risks in theareas that we should be thinking about?
(15:01):
Looking at our charters, looking atour documents, looking at our policies,
procedures, and really, risk is everyone'sjob, and so the fact that we've normalized
that and that's part of our ways ofworking and operationalized it, it just
makes it so much easier to actuallymeet our fiduciary responsibilities.
That is a great description of aboard that's newly composed and
(15:27):
has really just not missed a beat.
I mean, that is great to hear.
What does decision making looklike on the Needham Bank board?
Decision making is, it's interesting,before a decision is made, there are
lots of conversation, and because ofthat, one is we really want to make
sure we're deeply understanding allof the facts and the state of facts.
(15:50):
We want to discuss them so we'reseeing the decision point from other
angles, what are the pros, what arethe cons, what information we might
not know that we might need to know.
That's been great because, again,we're coming in as advisors.
We really depend on the managementteam and the C-suite of the bank
to be experts of their business.
(16:12):
When they're bringing decisions to us,they're bringing that decision, but
they're also bringing a point of view,and we're able to engage with them
about what that point of view is on saidsubject and make sure that we're just road
testing and being thought partner withthem about things that they may have not
thought of or may have seen, and thingsthat they may have thought of that they
(16:32):
might want to rethink through again.
That's been a great exercise for us,because at the end of engaging with
management, the decisions usuallybecome very clear to us about the
directions we want to go into.
That said, with every board, thereare occasions where you have to
send these decisions back, we'renot prepared to make a decision.
(16:53):
Out of those discussions, we'veunearthed more questions that
we need more information on.
Being okay with that, and I think I'vebeen impressed with that, even during
the time of the IPO when we were movingquickly, the board was willing to go slow,
to go fast, so sometimes you needed tojust pause for a beat, send some things
(17:15):
back to committee, call some of ouradvisors to make sure we were making the
best decision even though we wanted tobe expedient about it It was just great
that we had the willingness to do that.
One of the things you said when we spokerecently was that once the board reaches
a decision, everyone really supports itand you leave the room feeling that it
(17:37):
was a good decision making process, eventhe decisions to which you were adverse.
I guess the question is, whathelps to create that kind of really
positive board culture where everyonefeels heard, and obviously, there's
disagreement, and at the end, everyoneis together in supporting the decision,
(18:01):
because that's obviously the optimum.
How does that board culture happen?
Well, the board culture startswith what I mentioned on the top,
it's about that deep trust andrespect that we have for everyone.
And one thing that Joe did reallywell, he's very transparent about the
search and why he brought individualboard members on, and so we have an
(18:22):
idea of the deep expertise and theculture around each board member Once
you have that trust and you have thatmutual respect, that matters when
things are difficult in the boardroom.
I won't speak too much out of school,when we were making the decision whether
we were going to go public, there weresome people who were a bit more cautious
and others that were like very excitedabout it, and it wasn't just about
(18:44):
the IPO, it's also about the timing,like when's the right time to do it?
Shall we wait?
Especially with everything that was goingon at the time, we have to think about
the economic climate, the crisis that washappening, and so we had some real meaty
decisions about, is this the right time?
There were some people who want to wait.
There were some people who want togo now and we went back and forth on
(19:04):
that decision and had pros and cons,discussed with management or with
our advisors, and then at the end ofthe day, when we call the vote, the
majority of people voted that we wantto do this now, not about the IPO,
it was more just about the timing.
We think now is the right time forthe reasons that have been laid out.
I have to say once we made thatdecision, everyone, even the
(19:26):
people who are a bit more cautious,they said, "Okay, decisions made.
Full steam ahead.
How can I lean in?
How can I be helpful?"
People became not even 100% on board,150% on board, and that's why that
day as we were at NASDAQ standingtogether, it really felt like it was
this joint moment to get us here.
(19:47):
Everyone leaned in, we had more meetingsthan we expected to have when some of us
signed up for the board, but everyone waswilling to roll up their sleeves and do
the work and get behind this decision.
I never talked to a board member or staffwho had any doubts about what we did,
and I think that's what you need and Ithink that's why we were able to pull
off what we did in such a successful way.
(20:08):
What an exemplary culture to create,and kudos to you and Raza and the
board and to Joe Campanelli and hissenior staff for everything they did
to help foster such a positive culture.
It's one thing to bring greatboard members into a room.
It's another thing to have a wellcomposed board, but if you don't handle
(20:31):
it properly, it really doesn't matter,and that goes back to leadership.
It goes back to the chairman of theboard, the CEO, and in this case, both
roles are filled by Joe, and as youhave said, he gets a lot of credit
for taking great board members andmaking sure their voices are heard.
Because when you shoot for the best boardmembers, one thing you have to remember
(20:51):
is they're there to have their voicesheard, and as long as that happens,
it's usually going to be pretty good.
Angela, talk a little bitabout the future of work.
Are we seeing more boards lookingfor chief people officer, chief HR
officer on the boards, and maybethen also talk about how does the
future of work impact the boardroom.
(21:14):
I would love to talk about that.
When I think about the future of workand really the future of boards, a
lot of the issues that we're grapplingwith in the workplace today, they have
a human capital component to them.
When we think about news headlinesaround return to work, mandating
return to work, you see JP MorganChase and others doing that.
(21:38):
You see some that have just fullygone remote, these are major issues
that actually level up to the board.
I want to give you a quick example.
So, If we think about cybersecurity,for example, we think about all of our
systems, the protection that we havethem, the protocols and Raza, I don't
need to tell you you're an expert here.
As it relates to human capital, wehave to think about what does that
(22:00):
mean if you have a remote workforce?
What are the cyber risk around that?
All it takes is one email for someoneto open accidentally, and that
could impact the whole system, andso really understanding as we're
making these decisions about remotework, and I'm not saying that the
board should say yes or no to that.
What I'm saying is just reallyunderstanding what are some of
(22:21):
the implications around that.
A second I'd share is like what we'reseeing in the workplace is a generational
transition in the workforce, and we'vebeen talking about it for years where
they're saying, "Oh, those millennials.
Oh my God, those Gen Z."
Well, the real deal is,this is our workforce.
They are going to be the majority ofthe workforce very soon, and so if
(22:46):
we're thinking about it's us old schoolversus them, a lot of companies are
going to be end for a rude awakening.
When I talk about the future ofboards, why they might want someone
with a talent background is reallythinking about what is that strategy
to bridge these generations?
Because you've got Gen Z and millennials,like they're going into management now.
This is our leadership, so we just can'tafford to say us versus them and really
(23:12):
need to think about how do we have astrategy, what training do they need, and
then as managers and as leaders in thisboard, what do we need to understand?
Where do we need to learn andgrow to actually meet this moment?
It can't be adversarial.
The third thing that I think about,too, is just around training.
Everyone, every CEO that I speakwith and board, they're talking about
(23:34):
generative AI, and some companies arethinking, "Do we have an expert on staff?
Do we have a chief trust expertin person that's on staff?"
We need to think about generative AIbecause it is going to reshape work.
There will be roles that will go away.
There will be roles that will evolve.
We need to understand that thatinterplay between human and machines.
(23:57):
What type of new trainingwill our staff need?
Really, our focus on incumbent workers ina very different way, it was fascinating.
I was looking at Edelman Trust Barometer,and if you look at statistics, you have
employees who trust their employersmore than they trust the government,
for example, more than they trustinstitutions of higher learning.
(24:19):
When you look at statistics, 70-pluspercent of workers think that they're
going be get their education andprofessional development from their
employers, and so if companiesare not meeting this moment,
that's going to cause attrition.
That's going to cause peopleto choose other employers.
That's going to cause disengagement.
We're sitting in a state where there's60% plus workers who feel like their
(24:44):
companies don't care about them, andif we think that these people are
going to invest in our companies, wehave another thing that we need to
consider, and I think that's where boardscome in to understand, are we having
those people/human capital decisions,are they coming to the board level?
Are we able to have visibility onwhat's happening with turnover and how
(25:04):
we're grooming and growing people andyou're building a deep talent bench?
Again, that's going to be more and moreimportant, especially when we look at
skills gaps, talent gaps, positionsthat are going unfilled, that's going
to directly impact the company'sbottom line, and so it's something
as a board more and more, more thanever, we're going to have to attune to.
(25:26):
Yeah, there's a lot ofimportant things that you said.
Angela, you will also have done someresearch on Fortune 500 companies
and their outcomes to be mappedback to their people practice.
Talk a little bit aboutthat, and what did you find?
Right.
So, you mentioned at the top of thepodcast, I oversaw an initiative called
(25:47):
the Future of Work Grand Challenge.
And right after COVID, we had peoplewho literally overnight lost their jobs,
and I was on a research project wherewe were tasked with studying a group of
25,000 people who were displaced by COVIDhelping them in an accelerated fashion
train for new jobs and then place them injobs that we called work of the future,
(26:08):
where their jobs were not estimated to beautomated in the next three to five years.
In doing so, we were able to track aset of these employees to find which
ones were able to land jobs with greatwages, which ones were able to stay
and have sustained employment and whichones left after six to nine months.
And in working with these companies, Igot really curious about why some people
(26:33):
stayed at companies, who were able toprogress into management and above,
and why do we have a subset that left,and I really wanted to drill in and
study the companies that had practiceswhere they showed a lower turnover,
that they showed higher engagement, andbased on that, with my colleagues at
Harvard, I produced a framework calledthe Equitable Future of Work Framework.
(26:55):
What that framework is, we've outlinednine dimensions and strategies that we
saw in top companies that were, one,able to really engage their employees,
reduce turnover, increase engagement,and also they had their bottom line
thriving in terms of EBITDA, in termsof share price and looking at the nine
(27:15):
strategies, there are some things thatwe've talked about today, really investing
in a deep talent bench and training andunderstanding what's the strategy if
you have someone who's coming from thefront line, what could be a pathway to
them being at management and ultimately,maybe the C-suite, for example.
You'll see that at a company like Walmart.
If you think about DougMcMillan, he started as a floor
(27:37):
clerk at a Walmart, right?
and he's a CEO, and they have manyother people that they can show who
have that career path but that'sactually telling an employee that
that can happen in the company.
Really thinking about how are youshifting the relationships between people,
getting away from some of these biggerhierarchies, making sure that when we
think about the future of work knowingthat a good idea can come from anyone
(28:01):
and really building structures internallyacross power, across goals that we're
like seeing where this innovation iscoming from, and so we can build these
new ideas and seeing great companies havebeen doing excellent work around that.
The third one, they're nine, I'm notgoing to go through all of them, but
the third one that I'm really afan about is re-imagining benefits.
(28:22):
If we think about HR as human capital,we think 401k plan, we think can we
give credits for transportation, etc.
We're seeing some companies that arereally, really deeply understanding
the lived experience of theiremployees and they're thinking
of benefits in a different way.
So when we think about transportation,they're thinking about how can we
(28:44):
provide transportation, not justto put transportation credit.
They'll think back in the day when weheard about know, Google and Meta doing
the big buses that they go from SanFrancisco out to the Silicon Valley.
There are companies are doing thison a smaller scale, saying, "I want
to make sure you can get to work."
Knowing that people have caregivingresponsibilities, we want to ensure that
(29:04):
we have funding around that available.
There was one company that I havestudied called Guild Education.
They actually created like this Montessoripreschool on their property for their
workers and I'll give you an example,workers who are frontline who can not
afford as much, they don't pay as much,it's management who can and how beautiful
(29:25):
it is when I talked to and interviewedpeople from the frontline to management,
they said, "It's so important that I'mable to see my child during the day, and I
know that this is a best in class center."
It was phenomenal the results that wesaw during COVID where you saw many women
who were dropping out of the workforce.
They said they lost one person, andthat was because the woman left and
(29:46):
was moving to another state, and sothese are things that really matter.
These are companies that I talk about, andwe'll talk about this a bit with the book
that I'm writing, The Win Win Workplace,talking about nine proven strategies for
employee thriving, but also bottom linesuccess, showing in the business model
how these businesses who do this makethis make sense in terms of the ROI.
(30:10):
That's where I think it getsinteresting when we're talking
about the future of work.
The future of work is how is one human,there's always going to be technological
advances, how do we ensure that thepeople that we're working with can be
there, can show up and be their bestselves, and that's going to lead to
the business outcomes that we want.
Wow, Angela, that wasa terrific framework.
(30:31):
Do talk a little bit more aboutthe books that's coming up.
Who is it intended for?
What are you covering in that book?
So, when I think about thebook, it's really two audiences.
The first audience is for employees.
It's for workers for them to understandwhat is out there expansive so they
can build a case for themselves andthinking about these practices and
(30:53):
strategies to advocate and actuallyhave the business case behind it.
So, if they see one of thesepractices, that they can go to their
manager, they can go to the CEOand introduce one of these ideas.
It's also for boards and C-suiteleaders too when they're thinking
about their talent practices andwanting to use that as a competitive
strategy, looking at having thesetools, having the case studies and
(31:16):
of companies and peers that are doingthis and have done this successfully,
that they can use to bring thesepractices to life in their companies.
Well, we'll look forward to the book.
I can't wait to read it.
Excellent.
And I will definitely be in touch.
If anyone's interested, they can go todrangelajackson.com and there's a sign
up for there where they can learn more.
(31:37):
And we will post that on our website.
And again, the name is the Win WinWorkplace published next January
January 2025.
Oh my God.
That's right.
Okay.
Angela, what a great conversation.
Thank you so much for being with us today.
Oh, and thank you.
And thank you for this podcast.
It's always one of my top two listens.
(31:59):
I learn so much and it's justbeen great sharing with you.
Thank you for saying that.
And thank you all for listeningto On Boards with our guest, Dr.
Angela Jackson.
Please visit our websiteat OnBoardsPodcast.com.
That's OnBoardsPodcast.Com.
We'd love to hear your comments,suggestions, and feedback.
(32:19):
And if you're not already asubscriber, please be sure to
subscribe at Apple Podcasts, Spotify,or wherever you get your podcasts.
And remember to leaveus a five-star review.
Please stay safe and take careof yourselves, your families and
your communities as best you can.
We hope you'll tune in forthe next episode of On Boards.
(32:40):
Thanks.
Hello and welcome to On Boards, a deepdive at what drives business success.
I'm Joe Ayoub and I'm herewith my co-host Raza Shaikh.
Twice a month, On Boards is theplace to learn about one of the most
critically-important aspects of anycompany or organization - its board
of directors or advisors - withthe focus on the important issues
(00:26):
that are facing boards, companyleadership and stakeholders.
Joe and I speak with a wide range ofguests and talk about what makes a board
successful or unsuccessful, what it meansto be an effective board member, and
how to make your board one of the mostvaluable assets of your organization.
Our guest today is Dr.
(00:46):
Angela Jackson.
Angela is the founder of Future ForwardStrategies, a labor market intelligence,
design thinking and strategy firmthat assists leaders with transforming
organizations and human capitalstructure to maintain competitiveness
while creating positive impact.
She's also an award-winning socialentrepreneur, a Global C-Suite executive,
(01:11):
and an experienced board member.
Angela is a lecturer at Harvard GraduateSchool of Education, as well as the
architect of the Future of Work GrandChallenge, an initiative to rapidly
reskill 25, 000 displaced workers intoliving wage jobs within 24 months.
(01:32):
Among the boards on which Angela servesis the board of Needham Bank located
outside Boston, a board on which Ialso serve, and she is the author of
a book entitled Win-Win Workplace thatwill be published in January 2025.
Welcome, Angela.
It's great to have youhere today as our guest.
(01:53):
Thank you, Joe and It's great to be here.
Let's just start with a littlebackground, because even though we've
given an introduction, talk a littlebit about your background, because I
think there are so many components thatgo into what makes you, in my mind,
a terrific board member, and I thinkit's worth going through a little bit.
(02:14):
I'll say a couple ofthings about my background.
One is I started out my career as anoperator so I built new businesses,
domestically and internationally,for Viacom and for Nokia.
I transitioned out there and launchedmy own company that I ran and that
was venture backed for eight years.
After I had exited, I decided to go backto do my doctoral degree, and I was just
(02:38):
really fascinated at the time around thefact that I had been an entrepreneur, I
didn't know the statistics about being anentrepreneur at that time, that by being
a woman, a woman of color, that the oddsare that I was going to have difficulty
raising money and raise less money.
For me, although raising money waschallenging, I was able to successfully
(02:59):
do that, and again, know, I raisedabout $10 million in venture funds
by the time I exited to a partner.
But after that experience, I wasreally interested in investing in women
and understanding how capital flows.
After my doctoral degree, I beganworking with a venture philanthropy firm
and raised about a $50 million fund oneconomic mobility and investing in HR
(03:24):
and workforce tech that really helped totrain people for the future of work and
jobs that don't even exist today, andand that really started my deep research
in the future of work and understandingthe technologies, the business practices
that make for a sustained workforce, butalso impacts positively the bottom line.
(03:47):
Fantastic.
Last year you joined the board of NeedhamBank as Raza said in the introduction.
That's a mutual bank that decidedto take itself public, which it
did, in December of last year andquite successfully, I might add.
Let's start with this, what weresome of the factors that led
you to decide to join the board?
(04:10):
Well, I think the big one is just startingwith the IPO and the reason behind it.
The CEO, Joe Campanelli, isreally a visionary leader.
At the time, a lot of companies'IPO because it's about the
money that they can bring in.
It's about the accolades behind it.
As a board, when we talked about thereason for going public, this is right
after Silicon Valley Bank had foldedand we had the banking crisis, and
(04:35):
what was happening here locally inBoston is that a lot of banks had put
a lot of restrictions on their lending.
There are a lot of small business ownersthat were out there and entrepreneurs
who needed access to capital, and wefelt, and our leadership know, led by
Joe, if we were to IPO at this time,we would actually have more cash to
put on the street to invest in theseentrepreneurs and business leaders.
(04:58):
The second part was aroundthe values behind that.
They wanted to do the IPO so they couldinvest in an employee stock ownership
program, and for me and my work aroundthe future of work, I deeply believe
in companies and CEOs who are reallyseeing their employees as shareholders
and the fact that we wanted to use thefunds and to ensure that everyone from
(05:21):
the frontlines to the C-suite couldbe an owner in a bank was significant.
And then the third place, we lookedat building a foundation that we
could invest in local communities.
For over a century, we had a historyas a mutual community bank, and
so we wanted to continue that.
The vision was still howcan we be national, but also
(05:43):
hyper-local at the same time.
We were just completely alignedwith how we wanted to use the money.
It was values based to really invest inthe community, who we're investing in, the
talent and people, and then making surethat we were just being a good neighbor.
I was sold by that.
And I'd say there's just one morepiece that struck me when I saw
the board listing for Needham Bank.
(06:04):
They had in there that theywere looking for someone with
HR and human capital experience.
If you look at most boardlistings, that is very rare.
Most boards are looking for someonewho's been a sitting CEO or a CFO,
maybe someone in technologies.
You rarely see that listingfor a human resource person.
Why that's important?
(06:26):
Through my research at Harvard University,you mentioned I'm a lecturer on the
future of work, the future of boards isgoing to be really important how we're
thinking about human capital, and we'veseen that since the pandemic, that there
is a lot of risk and opportunities aroundhow we're centering our workers and our
employees, and so it really signaledto me that the bank was future forward
(06:49):
in their thinking around their humancapital, and so that sealed the deal.
I was ready to sign on.
Well, thank you for mentioning thosepoints, some great points, one of
which I want to take up, which isthe board spec and talking about
someone who was a chief peopleofficer or someone in human capital.
Lots of companies say that their mostimportant asset or one of the most
(07:13):
important assets are their employees,but very few actually back that up
with what they do, and everythingyou said about Joe Campanelli as a
visionary leader, I couldn't agree more.
As you both know, I was fortunateenough to work with Joe and his senior
team in recruiting five board membersto this board, you and Raza were two
(07:36):
of them, and it was a great journey,they were so dedicated to finding
the right kind of board composition.
And as you said, they really wereincredibly thoughtful, but what do we need
on this board to make it the best boardwe can have to support a public offering
(07:57):
and to support the senior management aswe go public and, obviously, now to be
the board of a public company, which bygoing public is fun, a lot of work for for
them, obviously, but the being public isa different kind of challenge for a board.
In that regard, I wanted to ask you alittle bit about a couple of things.
First of all, about the board's role asyou were discussing this and how they
(08:22):
brought it to you and how the boardtalked about it, you kind of started
that, and then I do want to end upwith something a little more fun, which
is the ringing of the closing bell.
I have pictures of both you andRaza and others that day at NASDAQ.
I have to say it looked like a lot of fun.
(08:42):
Yeah, it was definitely a lot of fun,and I would just say when we're thinking
about the organization Needham Bank.
They were very intentional.
When we were brought on, JoeCampanelli was really future thinking
and saying, "What type of boarddo we need to meet this moment?
(09:05):
We know where we want to go.
We know that we want to growso that we can better serve the
community and our customers.
Who do we need around the tableif we're going to go public?"
If you look at our board, the diversityof experiences, if you look at the
makeup and gender of the board, forexample, we have three women who are
on the board and in the current state,we have less than 30% of women who
(09:29):
are serving on boards internationally,that's future thinking in itself.
I mentioned the sitting CEO, wehad a cyber expert, so all of the
things that boards are facing inthis current context, we have people
who have expertise in addressing it.
So, when we're sitting around the boardseat and thinking about whether we go
public, it's helpful to have someone who'sa sitting CEO who's saying, "Okay, these
(09:54):
are what the conditions I'm saying here."
It's great that we have someone who'sa deep financial expert who's taken
a lot of other companies public tosay, "Okay, these are the headwinds.
These are the pros and cons."
It's helpful to have a cyber expertto talk about, "This is the type of
microscope that we're going to be over."
Truly what was phenomenal about thoseconversations is that everyone had a voice
(10:17):
and it was really a mutual decision thatwe came to, like this is going to be not
only right for the bank, it's right forour client, it's right for our talent at
the bank, and It was exciting on how wedid that and did it as a team, especially
the newly-formed team, and I could tellyou, I tell my friends who asked me, how
was it going through the IPO process?
(10:39):
It's intense.
It is serious.
And I think anyone who is thinking aboutgoing public, really making sure that
you have the right team of advisors thatare around you, and we had the best in
class legal team, et cetera, it helpsand it also helps to have the board
members who have done this before andwho actually want to lean in and lean
into the thought of being an independentdirector, and that's why we're there to
(11:02):
to speak up and to make sure that thebank are aasking the questions to make
sure the bank is making the right decisionfor the moment, and I felt that we did.
Thank you.
Before we go on, talk a littlebit about the closing bell.
Oh, my God, Joe.
I would love to talkabout the closing bell.
It was just an excitingmoment for all of us.
We're based here in Boston in Needhamand we're going to go to New York for the
(11:25):
NASDAQ, and I talk about Joe a lot, andagain, I have so much respect for him.
We thought, how are we going toget everyone from the bank to New
York, and so they came up withthe idea that we're going to take
these coach buses from Needham Bankand it would travel to New York.
Now, you would think any bankCEO who's deciding to do this,
maybe they would fly in and theywould be there to meet everyone.
(11:47):
Actually, Joe jumped on the bus witheveryone else, shoulder to shoulder, to
make that five-hour plus journey to NewYork and to take it back to be there.
The enthusiasm, the camaraderie, itwas really the feeling of what had
happened, that we did this, from thefront lines to the C-suite, it was
(12:07):
because of the effort of the people inthe bank that were all customer facing,
some that are internal, that made thismoment happen, and so it was amazing.
We get in this room, the people whocouldn't be there, we had videos of
them up front, and it really feltlike a family affair, just pure joy.
(12:27):
And then I think afterwards, we knewwhat this moment meant, that we were
able to go back to our communityand even better serve our customers.
That is fantastic.
It did look like a lot of fun andit certainly sounds like it was.
I didn't realize thateveryone went up together.
So, since you joined the board, whatare some of the practices that the board
(12:50):
has adopted, that in your view, havereally worked to improve governance?
Some of the big practices that we've hadthat have improved governance that's just
starting out the sense of transparency.
When you think about the relationshipbetween the board and the management,
there are many ways that that can go.
And one thing that I appreciated as Istarted out is that we have full access
(13:14):
to the management and we're encouragedto have mutual relationships with
them so that if they need to come tous for something as a board, we can.
If we have a question, we canhave comfortability going to them.
And I think that transparencyand access is key to really
understand what's happening andhow we can best advise as a board.
(13:34):
The second thing we do as a greatpractice is just really taking advantage
of executive sessions, and this issomething that Raza brought to the
board that was just really critical.
What are the conversations that wecan have directly with management?
What are the conversations thatwe can have directly as a board
and making sure that, again, thatwe're advising, that we're getting
(13:55):
the information that we want.
The third practice is, and I don'tknow how this is for other boards,
but I have to tell you, we all reallyhave a deep mutual respect for each
other, and that shows in the boardroomon how we work and how we govern.
That just makes for a really strongerteam, and then there are things we
(14:17):
do as just a practice of policy thatany meeting that we have, regardless
of whether you're on a committee ornot, those meetings are open to you.
For me, that's important because itprovides not only visibility, but also
learning opportunities that someonecan come and sit in, and for example,
I know I came and sit down and we haveeveryone, the enterprise risk committee.
(14:40):
I learned so muchthroughout those meetings.
I'm on the audit committee.
I'm on the nom gov committee.
But when you think about enterprise risk,risk happens in every single area, and so
when I'm sitting in that committee, I'mthinking with my nomination and governance
hat on, what are the risks in theareas that we should be thinking about?
(15:01):
Looking at our charters, looking atour documents, looking at our policies,
procedures, and really, risk is everyone'sjob, and so the fact that we've normalized
that and that's part of our ways ofworking and operationalized it, it just
makes it so much easier to actuallymeet our fiduciary responsibilities.
That is a great description of aboard that's newly composed and
(15:27):
has really just not missed a beat.
I mean, that is great to hear.
What does decision making looklike on the Needham Bank board?
Decision making is, it's interesting,before a decision is made, there are
lots of conversation, and because ofthat, one is we really want to make
sure we're deeply understanding allof the facts and the state of facts.
(15:50):
We want to discuss them so we'reseeing the decision point from other
angles, what are the pros, what arethe cons, what information we might
not know that we might need to know.
That's been great because, again,we're coming in as advisors.
We really depend on the managementteam and the C-suite of the bank
to be experts of their business.
(16:12):
When they're bringing decisions to us,they're bringing that decision, but
they're also bringing a point of view,and we're able to engage with them
about what that point of view is on saidsubject and make sure that we're just road
testing and being thought partner withthem about things that they may have not
thought of or may have seen, and thingsthat they may have thought of that they
(16:32):
might want to rethink through again.
That's been a great exercise for us,because at the end of engaging with
management, the decisions usuallybecome very clear to us about the
directions we want to go into.
That said, with every board, thereare occasions where you have to
send these decisions back, we'renot prepared to make a decision.
(16:53):
Out of those discussions, we'veunearthed more questions that
we need more information on.
Being okay with that, and I think I'vebeen impressed with that, even during
the time of the IPO when we were movingquickly, the board was willing to go slow,
to go fast, so sometimes you needed tojust pause for a beat, send some things
(17:15):
back to committee, call some of ouradvisors to make sure we were making the
best decision even though we wanted tobe expedient about it It was just great
that we had the willingness to do that.
One of the things you said when we spokerecently was that once the board reaches
a decision, everyone really supports itand you leave the room feeling that it
(17:37):
was a good decision making process, eventhe decisions to which you were adverse.
I guess the question is, whathelps to create that kind of really
positive board culture where everyonefeels heard, and obviously, there's
disagreement, and at the end, everyoneis together in supporting the decision,
(18:01):
because that's obviously the optimum.
How does that board culture happen?
Well, the board culture startswith what I mentioned on the top,
it's about that deep trust andrespect that we have for everyone.
And one thing that Joe did reallywell, he's very transparent about the
search and why he brought individualboard members on, and so we have an
(18:22):
idea of the deep expertise and theculture around each board member Once
you have that trust and you have thatmutual respect, that matters when
things are difficult in the boardroom.
I won't speak too much out of school,when we were making the decision whether
we were going to go public, there weresome people who were a bit more cautious
and others that were like very excitedabout it, and it wasn't just about
(18:44):
the IPO, it's also about the timing,like when's the right time to do it?
Shall we wait?
Especially with everything that was goingon at the time, we have to think about
the economic climate, the crisis that washappening, and so we had some real meaty
decisions about, is this the right time?
There were some people who want to wait.
There were some people who want togo now and we went back and forth on
(19:04):
that decision and had pros and cons,discussed with management or with
our advisors, and then at the end ofthe day, when we call the vote, the
majority of people voted that we wantto do this now, not about the IPO,
it was more just about the timing.
We think now is the right time forthe reasons that have been laid out.
I have to say once we made thatdecision, everyone, even the
(19:26):
people who are a bit more cautious,they said, "Okay, decisions made.
Full steam ahead.
How can I lean in?
How can I be helpful?"
People became not even 100% on board,150% on board, and that's why that
day as we were at NASDAQ standingtogether, it really felt like it was
this joint moment to get us here.
(19:47):
Everyone leaned in, we had more meetingsthan we expected to have when some of us
signed up for the board, but everyone waswilling to roll up their sleeves and do
the work and get behind this decision.
I never talked to a board member or staffwho had any doubts about what we did,
and I think that's what you need and Ithink that's why we were able to pull
off what we did in such a successful way.
(20:08):
What an exemplary culture to create,and kudos to you and Raza and the
board and to Joe Campanelli and hissenior staff for everything they did
to help foster such a positive culture.
It's one thing to bring greatboard members into a room.
It's another thing to have a wellcomposed board, but if you don't handle
(20:31):
it properly, it really doesn't matter,and that goes back to leadership.
It goes back to the chairman of theboard, the CEO, and in this case, both
roles are filled by Joe, and as youhave said, he gets a lot of credit
for taking great board members andmaking sure their voices are heard.
Because when you shoot for the best boardmembers, one thing you have to remember
(20:51):
is they're there to have their voicesheard, and as long as that happens,
it's usually going to be pretty good.
Angela, talk a little bitabout the future of work.
Are we seeing more boards lookingfor chief people officer, chief HR
officer on the boards, and maybethen also talk about how does the
future of work impact the boardroom.
(21:14):
I would love to talk about that.
When I think about the future of workand really the future of boards, a
lot of the issues that we're grapplingwith in the workplace today, they have
a human capital component to them.
When we think about news headlinesaround return to work, mandating
return to work, you see JP MorganChase and others doing that.
(21:38):
You see some that have just fullygone remote, these are major issues
that actually level up to the board.
I want to give you a quick example.
So, If we think about cybersecurity,for example, we think about all of our
systems, the protection that we havethem, the protocols and Raza, I don't
need to tell you you're an expert here.
As it relates to human capital, wehave to think about what does that
(22:00):
mean if you have a remote workforce?
What are the cyber risk around that?
All it takes is one email for someoneto open accidentally, and that
could impact the whole system, andso really understanding as we're
making these decisions about remotework, and I'm not saying that the
board should say yes or no to that.
What I'm saying is just reallyunderstanding what are some of
(22:21):
the implications around that.
A second I'd share is like what we'reseeing in the workplace is a generational
transition in the workforce, and we'vebeen talking about it for years where
they're saying, "Oh, those millennials.
Oh my God, those Gen Z."
Well, the real deal is,this is our workforce.
They are going to be the majority ofthe workforce very soon, and so if
(22:46):
we're thinking about it's us old schoolversus them, a lot of companies are
going to be end for a rude awakening.
When I talk about the future ofboards, why they might want someone
with a talent background is reallythinking about what is that strategy
to bridge these generations?
Because you've got Gen Z and millennials,like they're going into management now.
This is our leadership, so we just can'tafford to say us versus them and really
(23:12):
need to think about how do we have astrategy, what training do they need, and
then as managers and as leaders in thisboard, what do we need to understand?
Where do we need to learn andgrow to actually meet this moment?
It can't be adversarial.
The third thing that I think about,too, is just around training.
Everyone, every CEO that I speakwith and board, they're talking about
(23:34):
generative AI, and some companies arethinking, "Do we have an expert on staff?
Do we have a chief trust expertin person that's on staff?"
We need to think about generative AIbecause it is going to reshape work.
There will be roles that will go away.
There will be roles that will evolve.
We need to understand that thatinterplay between human and machines.
(23:57):
What type of new trainingwill our staff need?
Really, our focus on incumbent workers ina very different way, it was fascinating.
I was looking at Edelman Trust Barometer,and if you look at statistics, you have
employees who trust their employersmore than they trust the government,
for example, more than they trustinstitutions of higher learning.
(24:19):
When you look at statistics, 70-pluspercent of workers think that they're
going be get their education andprofessional development from their
employers, and so if companiesare not meeting this moment,
that's going to cause attrition.
That's going to cause peopleto choose other employers.
That's going to cause disengagement.
We're sitting in a state where there's60% plus workers who feel like their
(24:44):
companies don't care about them, andif we think that these people are
going to invest in our companies, wehave another thing that we need to
consider, and I think that's where boardscome in to understand, are we having
those people/human capital decisions,are they coming to the board level?
Are we able to have visibility onwhat's happening with turnover and how
(25:04):
we're grooming and growing people andyou're building a deep talent bench?
Again, that's going to be more and moreimportant, especially when we look at
skills gaps, talent gaps, positionsthat are going unfilled, that's going
to directly impact the company'sbottom line, and so it's something
as a board more and more, more thanever, we're going to have to attune to.
(25:26):
Yeah, there's a lot ofimportant things that you said.
Angela, you will also have done someresearch on Fortune 500 companies
and their outcomes to be mappedback to their people practice.
Talk a little bit aboutthat, and what did you find?
Right.
So, you mentioned at the top of thepodcast, I oversaw an initiative called
(25:47):
the Future of Work Grand Challenge.
And right after COVID, we had peoplewho literally overnight lost their jobs,
and I was on a research project wherewe were tasked with studying a group of
25,000 people who were displaced by COVIDhelping them in an accelerated fashion
train for new jobs and then place them injobs that we called work of the future,
(26:08):
where their jobs were not estimated to beautomated in the next three to five years.
In doing so, we were able to track aset of these employees to find which
ones were able to land jobs with greatwages, which ones were able to stay
and have sustained employment and whichones left after six to nine months.
And in working with these companies, Igot really curious about why some people
(26:33):
stayed at companies, who were able toprogress into management and above,
and why do we have a subset that left,and I really wanted to drill in and
study the companies that had practiceswhere they showed a lower turnover,
that they showed higher engagement, andbased on that, with my colleagues at
Harvard, I produced a framework calledthe Equitable Future of Work Framework.
(26:55):
What that framework is, we've outlinednine dimensions and strategies that we
saw in top companies that were, one,able to really engage their employees,
reduce turnover, increase engagement,and also they had their bottom line
thriving in terms of EBITDA, in termsof share price and looking at the nine
(27:15):
strategies, there are some things thatwe've talked about today, really investing
in a deep talent bench and training andunderstanding what's the strategy if
you have someone who's coming from thefront line, what could be a pathway to
them being at management and ultimately,maybe the C-suite, for example.
You'll see that at a company like Walmart.
If you think about DougMcMillan, he started as a floor
(27:37):
clerk at a Walmart, right?
and he's a CEO, and they have manyother people that they can show who
have that career path but that'sactually telling an employee that
that can happen in the company.
Really thinking about how are youshifting the relationships between people,
getting away from some of these biggerhierarchies, making sure that when we
think about the future of work knowingthat a good idea can come from anyone
(28:01):
and really building structures internallyacross power, across goals that we're
like seeing where this innovation iscoming from, and so we can build these
new ideas and seeing great companies havebeen doing excellent work around that.
The third one, they're nine, I'm notgoing to go through all of them, but
the third one that I'm really afan about is re-imagining benefits.
(28:22):
If we think about HR as human capital,we think 401k plan, we think can we
give credits for transportation, etc.
We're seeing some companies that arereally, really deeply understanding
the lived experience of theiremployees and they're thinking
of benefits in a different way.
So when we think about transportation,they're thinking about how can we
(28:44):
provide transportation, not justto put transportation credit.
They'll think back in the day when weheard about know, Google and Meta doing
the big buses that they go from SanFrancisco out to the Silicon Valley.
There are companies are doing thison a smaller scale, saying, "I want
to make sure you can get to work."
Knowing that people have caregivingresponsibilities, we want to ensure that
(29:04):
we have funding around that available.
There was one company that I havestudied called Guild Education.
They actually created like this Montessoripreschool on their property for their
workers and I'll give you an example,workers who are frontline who can not
afford as much, they don't pay as much,it's management who can and how beautiful
(29:25):
it is when I talked to and interviewedpeople from the frontline to management,
they said, "It's so important that I'mable to see my child during the day, and I
know that this is a best in class center."
It was phenomenal the results that wesaw during COVID where you saw many women
who were dropping out of the workforce.
They said they lost one person, andthat was because the woman left and
(29:46):
was moving to another state, and sothese are things that really matter.
These are companies that I talk about, andwe'll talk about this a bit with the book
that I'm writing, The Win Win Workplace,talking about nine proven strategies for
employee thriving, but also bottom linesuccess, showing in the business model
how these businesses who do this makethis make sense in terms of the ROI.
(30:10):
That's where I think it getsinteresting when we're talking
about the future of work.
The future of work is how is one human,there's always going to be technological
advances, how do we ensure that thepeople that we're working with can be
there, can show up and be their bestselves, and that's going to lead to
the business outcomes that we want.
Wow, Angela, that wasa terrific framework.
(30:31):
Do talk a little bit more aboutthe books that's coming up.
Who is it intended for?
What are you covering in that book?
So, when I think about thebook, it's really two audiences.
The first audience is for employees.
It's for workers for them to understandwhat is out there expansive so they
can build a case for themselves andthinking about these practices and
(30:53):
strategies to advocate and actuallyhave the business case behind it.
So, if they see one of thesepractices, that they can go to their
manager, they can go to the CEOand introduce one of these ideas.
It's also for boards and C-suiteleaders too when they're thinking
about their talent practices andwanting to use that as a competitive
strategy, looking at having thesetools, having the case studies and
(31:16):
of companies and peers that are doingthis and have done this successfully,
that they can use to bring thesepractices to life in their companies.
Well, we'll look forward to the book.
I can't wait to read it.
Excellent.
And I will definitely be in touch.
If anyone's interested, they can go todrangelajackson.com and there's a sign
up for there where they can learn more.
(31:37):
And we will post that on our website.
And again, the name is the Win WinWorkplace published next January
January 2025.
Oh my God.
That's right.
Okay.
Angela, what a great conversation.
Thank you so much for being with us today.
Oh, and thank you.
And thank you for this podcast.
It's always one of my top two listens.
(31:59):
I learn so much and it's justbeen great sharing with you.
Thank you for saying that.
And thank you all for listeningto On Boards with our guest, Dr.
Angela Jackson.
Please visit our websiteat OnBoardsPodcast.com.
That's OnBoardsPodcast.Com.
We'd love to hear your comments,suggestions, and feedback.
(32:19):
And if you're not already asubscriber, please be sure to
subscribe at Apple Podcasts, Spotify,or wherever you get your podcasts.
And remember to leaveus a five-star review.
Please stay safe and take careof yourselves, your families and
your communities as best you can.
We hope you'll tune in forthe next episode of On Boards.
(32:40):
Thanks.
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