An Exploration of the Entered Apprentice Charge Part 2

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
Hey, chris, yeah Fred .

Speaker 2 (00:07):
What's a Mason?

Speaker 1 (00:09):
That's a really good question, fred.

Speaker 2 (00:14):
You've reached the internet's home for all things
masonry.
Join Chris and I as we plumbthe depths of our ancient craft,
from the common gavel to thetrowel.
Nothing is off the table, sograb your tools and let's get to
work.
This is On the Level Ay-ya-ya,I think we got stuck in a time

(00:36):
vortex.
I'm pretty sure we did.
I think we missed a week.
Did we miss a week?

Speaker 1 (00:43):
I don't know if anyone missed us, but we did
miss a week.

Speaker 2 (00:47):
We missed a week, man , how does that?

Speaker 1 (00:50):
happen.
You're a busy man now thatyou're a celebrity.

Speaker 2 (00:54):
Oh, is that what it is?

Speaker 1 (00:56):
I think, you were doing something with the fans.

Speaker 2 (00:59):
Where were you?

Speaker 1 (01:01):
I haven't seen you in ages.
No, that was last week.

Speaker 2 (01:07):
I was in North Carolina and enjoying myself
immensely with my youngest sonand his new bride Up there.
He just bought a house and dida bunch of cool stuff, so went
up there to hang out with theboy and, yeah, it was a good
time.
Man, I love North Carolina.
Man, I love it.

(01:29):
I'd live there.
I have obligations here to takecare of my mother and my
in-laws so we're the kind oftheir health surrogates so we
can't leave.
But if I could leave I wouldleave, make no mistake.

Speaker 1 (01:47):
Yeah, I would too.
I think we live in a veryinteresting place in Sarasota,
florida.
It just keeps getting busierand busier here.
Hard to drive hard to park,hard to get into a restaurant.

Speaker 2 (02:00):
It's going to be Orlando.
I say it all the time andpeople from Orlando are like
what.
What's wrong with Orlando?
Orlando is the most crowdedplace on the planet.
That's what's wrong with it.

Speaker 1 (02:13):
Or Miami, you could say the same thing about Miami,
but we kind of like Miami.
I like to visit Miami.
I would never live there.
No.

Speaker 2 (02:24):
Even though we live here in Sarasota.
I would be a fan of flying intoMiami, enjoying myself, and
flying back to Sarasota, becausedriving into Miami is not fun.

Speaker 1 (02:37):
You're right, it's better than driving to the keys,
where you can't stop once youstart.

Speaker 2 (02:44):
Depends on what you're driving, bro.
When I roar down there with mybrothers on our Harleys, it's a
good drive.

Speaker 1 (02:50):
Yeah, baby, I shouldn't try to huff it on my
huffy.
No, no, don't do that.

Speaker 2 (02:57):
No.
Shout out to Bob Bob'slistening.

Speaker 1 (03:01):
Bob would do it.
Yeah, bob would do it, noproblem.
He's like, yeah, I'm going tostart in Russia and I'm going to
drive my bike down to the keys.

Speaker 2 (03:09):
That's right yeah.

Speaker 1 (03:10):
You could drive on water.
Yes, he probably can.

Speaker 2 (03:14):
He can drive on water .

Speaker 1 (03:16):
Ride on water.
That is correct.
I guess you don't drive a bike.

Speaker 2 (03:19):
You ride a bike.
You ride a bike, that's right.
So what's been going on, manwith you?
What's the latest?

Speaker 1 (03:26):
The latest, I don't know.
I'm just trying to get throughthis here, trying to get to the
end.

Speaker 2 (03:33):
Trying to get to the end.
Yeah, I get it.

Speaker 1 (03:35):
We did a big cornhole tournament for our district
fundraiser, which was awesome.
We raised a little bit moremoney than we thought we would,
that's about $3,500.

Speaker 2 (03:44):
Not bad.

Speaker 1 (03:46):
Not too bad.

Speaker 2 (03:48):
Not bad at all, and this was money that was from
outside lodge.
In other words, these werenon-mesons that came in for the
cornhole tournament.

Speaker 1 (03:57):
Yeah, I was going to be annoyed that none of the
people from our district came toour district fundraiser.
I mean, that was more thanslightly annoyed initially, and
then I realized, hey, this isactually a good thing, because
we showed that you can raisemoney from tapping the outside
public and not have to keepasking masons for money over and

(04:20):
over and over again.

Speaker 2 (04:21):
Right, yeah, that's what I always call the spaghetti
dinner syndrome.
We have a spaghetti dinner andfish fry, and the only people
who come and pay for a plate arethe people who are in the lodge
that we're trying to raisemoney for in the first place.

Speaker 1 (04:37):
Exactly, we're taking money from people to give it
back to them.
It's the epitome of a hiddentax.
We are charitable.

Speaker 2 (04:45):
Yeah, so good on you guys.
Man, I could not be there.
Like I said, I was in NorthCarolina, but it went well.

Speaker 1 (04:51):
Yeah, we had lots of people show up from outside and
some became interested in thefraternity, definitely
interested in joining the shrine, so they got to get through us.

Speaker 2 (05:00):
Yeah, they got to get through us to get to there
Either way, that's a bonus forFreemasonry.

Speaker 1 (05:04):
There was quite a few people interested.

Speaker 2 (05:06):
And the Master Mason Association picked up about
$3,500 for the coffers, which isimportant for that important
organization.
Hello, is this thing onEverybody?
Yes it's on.
It's on Support your localMaster Mason Association.

Speaker 1 (05:25):
Yeah, the best way you can support them is to show
up once in a while.

Speaker 2 (05:28):
Yeah, man.

Speaker 1 (05:30):
Especially if you're a warden or a master.

Speaker 2 (05:32):
Correct, definitely should be there.

Speaker 1 (05:34):
Yeah, but most of the lodge secretaries need to be
there too, and the treasurers,let's be honest, let's be honest
.
Everyone should be there.
It should be there.

Speaker 2 (05:44):
Well, it's the only place where you can get every
lodge in your district togetherto coordinate.
There's no other vehicle fordoing this.
So it's super important that arepresentative from every lodge
be there every week.
If not, like you just said,Chris, a majority of the

(06:04):
officers should be there andparticipate, and it's fun.
It's fun and the School ofEducation afterwards, where we
all get together and get to hear.

Speaker 1 (06:13):
I've learned not all, not everybody does that.
I guess we're one of the fewthat do that.

Speaker 2 (06:20):
But he's right.

Speaker 1 (06:22):
After our Master Mason Association meeting our
district instructor hostseverybody.
Hopefully that was there tolearn some kind of esoteric
ritual work after that, and hedoes that for about an hour.

Speaker 2 (06:35):
And it's called Florida Work, not Lodge Work.

Speaker 1 (06:37):
Shout out to him, I actually teach Florida Work and
it's so funny because you seethe same people time after time.
After he teaches them FloridaWork, they raise their hand.
Excuse me, I would just like tosay I wasn't taught this way.
It's like we know.
That's why we're here.
None of us were taught this way.
That's why we're here.

Speaker 2 (06:57):
Yeah, it's funny.
Justin brought up a couple ofthings that nobody wanted to
hear, and good on him for doingit.
What was it?
Oh, applause after the.

Speaker 1 (07:08):
Some of these are hard to implement Right.

Speaker 2 (07:11):
You're not supposed to applaud after the lecture.

Speaker 1 (07:16):
Or the charge, or the charge really Really anything
Right?

Speaker 2 (07:20):
And it's so it's customary.
I guess it's customary.
It just feels like you'resupposed to.
There's that moment when thecharge is done and then they
start walking back and you justfeel like it's an automatic
reflex.

Speaker 1 (07:35):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (07:36):
It's like you just feel like you need to be
applauding, you know, but you'renot supposed to, and I guess it
just holds to the solemnness ofit.
Yes, and everybody gets toreflect a little bit on what
just took place.
What was the other thing that?
Oh, he was saying somethingelse that we're not supposed to
do, or every lodge in Floridadoes, and you're actually not

(07:57):
supposed to do it, and I don'tthink it has anything to do with
wearing sandals, I don't know.

Speaker 1 (08:01):
No, we can do that.
We can wear sandals on our headif we want, and that was just a
little dig to our past.

Speaker 2 (08:07):
Grandmaster, aw, no A man we love and respect big
time.

Speaker 1 (08:12):
Yes, yes, he tried to level us up and we wouldn't
have it.

Speaker 2 (08:14):
We wouldn't have it.
Excuse me sir.

Speaker 1 (08:19):
Where are my flip-flops to lodge?

Speaker 2 (08:21):
With my socks, no, or without.

Speaker 1 (08:23):
I guess you can wear without now.

Speaker 2 (08:25):
Apparently so, yes, so anyways.
Rabbit trail there.

Speaker 1 (08:29):
So there was one other controversial issue
Stalling to try to remember itand now I can't remember it.

Speaker 2 (08:34):
I can't remember it, it'll pop into our heads at the
most impetuned time.
What was it?
He's probably shouting at hisphone right now.
It's like you morons, Can younot?

Speaker 1 (08:44):
remember anything?
Well, this is how it's supposedto work.
The Committee on Work puts outevery year these are the things
you need to tell everybody inthe state.
They bring all the districtinstructors together Right.
And then they come out andthey're supposed to hammer it
into our thick heads, and sothis is the way that Ars chooses
to do it.
He's already got the wholedistrict there, all the players

(09:05):
right, the Masters and theWardens and everybody.
Yeah, shuttle them into a roomand give them the information
that the Grand Lodge wants themto have, and hopefully they'll
take it back to their lodges.
It's a pretty good system ofdisseminating information, if
you ask me.
Right, yeah.

Speaker 2 (09:20):
Yeah, that's right.

Speaker 1 (09:21):
So it means everybody's doing their job.

Speaker 2 (09:23):
Yeah, we've stalled long enough.
We're not going to remember it.

Speaker 1 (09:25):
Sorry, right, honorable Broom for We'll have
to have him back on the show.

Speaker 2 (09:31):
We'll have to have him back on the show to scold us
for our lack of attention Wellhe also.

Speaker 1 (09:37):
You know he has a good thing he's doing after the
School of Instruction.
He sends a note to all thesecretaries and asks them to
read it at all the meetings soeverybody gets the same
information, which iscommunication, is very important
, especially in Freemasonry.

Speaker 2 (09:51):
Yeah, that's right.
That's right get as muchinformation in the hands of as
many people as possible, becauseyou know, participation is
everything and without the rightinformation, without the
correct calendar dates and allof that stuff, you know it's
really important that duringyour stated meetings talking

(10:12):
about upcoming dates, by the way, master Mason Association you
can get upcoming dates for eachindividual lodge while you're
there.

Speaker 1 (10:20):
Oh, I remembered what it was.
Oh what, the Tyler has to stayoutside the lodge.

Speaker 2 (10:25):
Oh yeah, that was the big one it's not allowed inside
at all, at any point.
That was, and that could havebeen directed to the Mighty 147,
because we brought in the RoyalChair and sat it next to the
door so the Tyler me could comein during the stated meeting.
And, yeah, that got whacked.

Speaker 1 (10:48):
Yeah, that got whacked hard, I know, I know.
I know you like that one I mean, the thing is in my mind
because I had to think throughthis as the master and make a
decision and I thought, hey,he's a brother of our lodge, I'd
sure appreciate if all theLodge brothers that are here
could be in the same room makingdecisions together, Right?
So the Tyler did his job, hetiled the lodge, but we're

(11:11):
talking about after eighto'clock at night on a weeknight,
yeah, and we would lock theouter doors.

Speaker 2 (11:17):
We'd lock the door.
No one ever came.
No, no, not once.

Speaker 1 (11:21):
No one's ever going to roll up at a Master Mason
lodge at eight o'clock on aTuesday afternoon.

Speaker 2 (11:25):
Right right.

Speaker 1 (11:27):
And say, hey, I would have joined if only someone had
answered the door at eighto'clock on Tuesday afternoon,
right?
Yeah, it doesn't really everhappen, and so the guy's just
sitting out there doing nothingwhile we're having business
meeting, and so, yeah, I askedyou to come in because I really
thought it was important to haveyou with us.

Speaker 2 (11:45):
Hence the reason why it is best to have a past master
to be your Tyler, somebody whoknows everybody, who's been in
your lodge for a while anddoesn't necessarily need to be
in there absorbing all of thedegree work and the opening and
closing of the lodge andeverything that's going on in

(12:05):
there.
Me, I was way too new inMasonry to be a Tyler.
I don't think that's.

Speaker 1 (12:11):
Well, that'll let all the enthusiasm out of your
sales.
It really will, and it did, andhours by yourself in a room.

Speaker 2 (12:17):
It really did, and I was missing out on getting you
know, absorbing all of it,because that's part of our.
You know, that's how you learnit, man.
You just got to be in there andyou see it, hear it and do it
over and over again, and that'sone of the reasons why we're
able to do what we do.
So, anyways, another rabbittrail there for you.

Speaker 1 (12:37):
That's a requirement, so we follow it now.

Speaker 2 (12:39):
We follow it now Because that's what you do.

Speaker 1 (12:41):
You follow the rules.

Speaker 2 (12:42):
The fancy chair is still there.
But, rest assured, the Tyler'sderriere is not in it during the
lodge.
He is outside doing what he'ssupposed to do.

Speaker 1 (12:53):
One thing's for sure he's not clapping for anybody,
so at least one guy's followingthe rules.

Speaker 2 (12:57):
No, he's not clapping .
No Well, I don't know.

Speaker 1 (13:00):
Maybe he is out there .
No one can hear me.
I will clap.

Speaker 2 (13:03):
The thing is is if he were clapping it'd be okay,
because he's not in the lodge,Not in the lodge.
Yeah, yeah so maybe we'll workon that.

Speaker 1 (13:10):
So we're finishing the Entered Apprentice Charge.

Speaker 2 (13:15):
We are finishing the Entered Apprentice Charge as
promised.
And again our apologies,brothers.
If you were last Wednesdaylooking for us and you didn't
find us, that's because we werelost.
We were lost in time and I'mjust going to have to tell you
it was totally my fault.
I did a tech no-no and Iabsolutely just killed the file

(13:42):
that we recorded on.
We spent the entire time.
It was a really great episodeand when I transferred it over,
it went away.
I mean, and I looked everywherefor it, it just went away
Bye-bye, bye-bye, never to beheard again.
So we were planning on hittingit that next day to do it over

(14:04):
again, and then, with my trip toNorth Carolina coming up, it
just got crazy.
And yeah, here we are now,sorry, so, yeah, so the Entered
Apprentice Charge and we'll getthrough this because there's not
too much here.
We're almost done with it.

(14:24):
We have three paragraphs, but Ido know that we touched on a
lot of things during the lostepisode.
I hope we can get back to itthe lost episode.

Speaker 1 (14:38):
Only two people will know that there's a lost episode
.

Speaker 2 (14:40):
Right, yeah, right.

Speaker 1 (14:41):
That's OK, we can make it better now.

Speaker 2 (14:43):
We can make it better .

Speaker 1 (14:45):
Because it's only good because you and I are
talking about free masonry.
And here we are, we can fix it.

Speaker 2 (14:49):
We can fix it.

Speaker 1 (14:50):
We can fix it.

Speaker 2 (14:52):
I'm on page 63 in our little blue book, the Florida
Masonic Monitor.
This is published.
You can actually find all ofthis on the Grand Lodge website
Published.
None of this is secret, as wesay all the time.
We would never do that.
All of our encrypted stuffremains that way and we don't

(15:12):
write it down.
We don't do any of those things.
We're obligated not to, butthese are things that we feel
every mason should be familiarwith, and I know that there are
some brothers who are EAs thatdon't want to go forward into
this book and read fellow craftand masonry things.

(15:33):
That is your choice.
I would encourage you to do itjust to know what's coming your
way, but you don't have to Ifyou want to experience it for
the first time.
You know as you go through it.
I think that's your choice.
I look back and think to myselfyou know, just some basic

(15:54):
outlines would have been veryhelpful, especially in the EA
degree.
Everybody's nodding their head.
Yes, right now I was like, yeah, I was totally lost.
And then they started shootingme with an informational fire
hose.

Speaker 1 (16:05):
Well, to be honest, a lot of people may only hear the
charge a couple times if theydon't go back to degrees, and
there's no way you're going toremember what was in that charge
.
After hours of hearing things,that's the last thing you heard.
Hence why we're given thelittle blue book so that we can
go back and read it, and pleasedo.

Speaker 2 (16:25):
And if you are an EA or a fellow craft, you don't
have that little blue book yet,but when you get it, when you
get the little blue book, Iwould encourage you to get a
couple of stickies and throwthem in there and read through
it regularly, just tofamiliarize yourself with what
it means to be a mason.
We need some of that becausesometimes and lately there's all

(16:50):
kinds of misbehaviors going onout there with regard to masonry
.
Should we talk about that orshould we let that one go?
Maybe we'll let that one go.

Speaker 1 (16:57):
It does seem to be silly season lately.

Speaker 2 (16:59):
It is silly season, isn't it?

Speaker 1 (17:00):
I don't know how or why Just came out of nowhere but
a lot of masonic drama all atonce.

Speaker 2 (17:07):
Yeah yeah, I got up in our stated meeting last night
and just reminded the brethren.
I just felt like I needed toremind the brethren that if you
have an issue with anotherbrother, it is never appropriate
, it is never a good idea, it isnever masonic for you to post

(17:30):
on social media your displeasurewith another brother, even if
your cause is right.
It doesn't matter.
And what I tried to encourageeverybody last night was don't
even read the whole thing.
You know once you see wherethis, this, this post or this
letter or this, this, thisconversation is going.
Stop, stop, don't, don't getdrawn into it.

(17:52):
And, like Kevin Smith jumped upjunior warden last night and
said and don't and don't engage.

Speaker 1 (18:00):
And I think that was really good advice Don't inflame
.

Speaker 2 (18:02):
Don't inflame it, don't engage it and and what he
would tell you as junior warden,it is your junior warden's
responsibility to take those, totake any kind of issues you
have with another brother thatyou couldn't resolve between the
two of you, you take it to thejunior warden, you put it in his
lap and then you move on, manand he.
He deals with it from a thirdparty perspective.

(18:26):
He doesn't take sides and hejust looks at the situation and
makes a determination, and thatthat goes up higher.
We this is all part of our, oursystem.
Freemasonry is a self-governingfraternity.
We have our own government, wehave our own system for dealing
with things like this, but wedon't use it In this case it's
being used and it's being usedwell.

(18:49):
So I I'm I'm very encouraged bythat.
But again, brothers, if you see,first thing, for goodness sakes
, never post anything anywhereoutside of a lodge about another
brother.
Just don't do it.
It's never a good idea, it'snever correct or right, at no
time In your mind.
While you're typing, I'm hopingmy words will come through to

(19:12):
you.
It's not the thing to do, it'snot a thing.

Speaker 1 (19:16):
You can't do it.
It's not good for anybody,probably ever ever but as masons
in particular, absolutely we'resupposed to like look good and
think about this kind ofbehavior and not do it.
Right, You're bringing and we'renot preaching from on high.
I I have been guilty in thepast of not thinking before I
spoke.
Right, I'm guilty of it,especially when you get caught

(19:39):
up and you're, you know,passionate.
But I mean, you got to learnfrom those lessons.
You have to admit to yourselfyou made a mistake when you make
a mistake, or else how else areyou ever going to progress?
Yeah, you have to realize you'redoing something that was wrong.
And then what do you do whenyou do that?
Because you will make a mistake.
We all do sooner or later Right, you tell people you made the

(20:01):
mistake, you ask for forgivenessand you show them that you
learned a lesson.
That's what you do.
It's not hard.
Just just to own it admit itand then learn a lesson.
That's what masons do.

Speaker 2 (20:12):
And in, in, in confessing it I'll use that word
and and humbling yourself andcoming back to a person and
saying, look, what I did waswrong and I need to do better.
That in itself is the lesson.
When you don't do that, whenyou just bury it or move on or
get you know, or just you know,try to gaslight people about the

(20:34):
situation, you don't learn thelesson.
And I can guarantee you, man,it will happen again in your
life.
It will, because the pain ofhaving to go and admit you were
wrong in front of other peopleis the lesson it will.
It will teach you the next timeyou will remember that pain.
Yeah, you don't want that againand you don't want to do that

(20:54):
again, man.
So that is the lesson and oneof the reasons why we have we
have brothers out there and Isay this to my church brothers
all the time that we don't learnthe lessons because we don't do
the lesson.
You know, you got to do thelesson and the lesson is.
Sorry, bro, you, you blew it,man, and I'm speaking to myself
right here.
And and now you have to.
I'll give you an example.
I live in a villa complex andit's strictly HOA controlled.

(21:21):
I mean like they.
If you've ever heard the termHOA Nazis, well, the ultimate
HOA Nazi literally livesdirectly across the street from
my front door.
So when I go out, my front doorthere he is every day, anyway.
So our project, our complex, isgetting roofs done, so it's like

(21:42):
one building at a time they'regoing through doing roofs.
Well, it was his day to do theroof and he doesn't like me, I'm
just letting you know up front.
He had the roofers park theircars and trucks directly in
front of my house and I camehome from work after having a
long day and, of course, mebeing in the trades, and I got
out of my truck and I went up tothe roofers and I said hey, why

(22:06):
, why are you parking here?
What's wrong with you guys?
Why you got to park right infront of my house, yeah, so I
was.
I was on their case and theywere.
And they all looked at me atthe same time and most of them
were Hispanic.
And they looked at me and saidnot our cars.
And I said, oh no, not theircars.
Well, who's is it?
And then all of a suddenoutcomes the HOA Nazi to tell me

(22:27):
that it's the neighbors cars.
I had them park there becauseof the roofing situation.
We didn't want them parking intheir driveways.
And then I just lost it.
Man, I just, I just I burnedhim right there in front of
everybody and got really angryand then went inside.
The next day I'm leaving forwork and and God is just on me

(22:53):
over this and I can feel thespirit of God in me, like you
know what you need to do, right,and I'm like I don't want to do
that and he's like you knowwhat you need to do right.
And it's like Lord, I don't wantto do that.
And he said third time, whichis a biblical preset, you know
what you got to do right.
So I knocked on his door andknocked on, and knocked on his

(23:17):
door and outcomes him and hiswife, and I had to shake his
hand and say, rob, I'm reallysorry about yesterday.
That's not the way I'm supposedto behave, especially with my
neighbor.
I hope you can forgive me and Idon't want to.
I don't want to have to do thatagain and that was so painful.
It was so painful especiallybecause his wife hates me even

(23:42):
more than him and she's justgleaming at me like it was like
whatever, I was wrong.
Really meant to learn a lesson.
I'm a Christian, I'm a Mason.
I have an obligation to behavein a certain way in front of
other people.
So what I did was wrong, butwhat I did to correct it was the

(24:03):
right thing to do.
And when I left there, I feelbetter.

Speaker 1 (24:06):
Right, I feel a lot better.

Speaker 2 (24:08):
And I know after and I know the next time that comes
up, I'm going to be thinking inthe right frame of mind because
of what I did.

Speaker 1 (24:17):
So that's my story, and that's exactly how Masonry
should work.
It's painful to change.
We've talked about this, it is.
Change is not easy.

Speaker 2 (24:27):
That's right.
That's right.
You know somebody is getting inthe way of what I want and
therefore, you know I have achoice.
I have a choice, you know I cando.
I can handle it the right wayor I can handle it the wrong way
.
And unless we, unless we learnthese lessons and do the work,
do the work, mason, we're nevergoing to be in a position where,

(24:52):
when reaction right, it's allabout reaction.
You know, when you hit yourfinger with a hammer, what comes
?
out of your mouth.
It's a reaction that comes outof your mouth.
Well, what comes out of yourmouth is what's in your heart.
It's a great test.
Go ahead and try it.
I dare you.
But if you don't learn thelessons, if you don't do the

(25:14):
work and learn the lessons, thesame thing's going to come out
of your mouth every time.

Speaker 1 (25:18):
You can't expect any change.

Speaker 2 (25:19):
if you don't do any of the work, I think we've beat
this one to death.
What do you think?
Should we move?

Speaker 1 (25:23):
on no, they got it.

Speaker 2 (25:24):
They got it.
They got it All right.
So page 63, the enteredapprentice degree charge.
We left off talking about thestate and our obligation to the
government to be loyal to thecountry, and we touched a little
bit on that.
That, in fact, you know, if thegovernment stops being the

(25:49):
government, what is ourresponsibility as masons?
You can't be loyal.
It's not a suicide pact, right?
So if they're going off thecliff, being loyal and
subjective to an organization ofany kind that's going over a
cliff and harming itself is notwise.
So we don't need to revisitthat conversation, but at some

(26:09):
point you're right, we probablydon't need to read that whole
conversation, but I do agreewith you.

Speaker 1 (26:14):
It's worth repeating that we're to defend our
government, even if it's fromitself.

Speaker 2 (26:20):
Correct.
I love that.
Yeah, that's right.

Speaker 1 (26:22):
But there are ways in which we, as masons, are to go
about that.

Speaker 2 (26:27):
Correct.

Speaker 1 (26:28):
It's clear from our charge that we're not to raise
up arms and try to overthrow ourgovernment, but there are
mechanisms of the government.
We should be pushing andpulling levers to try to make
sure that it doesn't go off therails and that it stays our
government.
So it's tough because, again,people's passions to get the
better of them.
We're in an environment whereyou're meant to learn to hate,

(26:52):
and so I feel like it's reallyeasy to start thinking about
taking up arms against your ownbrothers in this kind of
environment, and people arereally passionate.
It's similar to Freemasonry.
People are really passionateabout things and they have their
idea of what's right and theyreally don't care about what
your idea is of what's right.
Not a lot of conversationhappening.

Speaker 2 (27:13):
Right.

Speaker 1 (27:14):
And when there's not a lot of conversation happening,
you can guarantee that thingsare going to go off the rails
100% of the time.
They always go off the railswhen the communication stops.

Speaker 2 (27:22):
Right yeah.

Speaker 1 (27:23):
Communication has stopped.
Communicators are going to gooff the rails.
They are, and we need to thinkabout, as masons, how we're
going to handle that.
We can be representatives ofthe government that we should
have.
That's right.
We can.
We can fight for the governmentthat we should have.
We must fight for thegovernment that we should have,
and every legal means possibleto us, right.

(27:45):
But when it comes to taking uparms against our government or
our fellow brothers, things geta little complicated.

Speaker 2 (27:53):
It does get complicated.
I think that the first thing weneed to do is we need to live
the life and be an example,first and foremost.
So the first thing we should dois get our own political house
in order.

Speaker 1 (28:05):
Yeah, come on, let's everybody join politics.

Speaker 2 (28:07):
We need some masons in here Right, Get involved and
you know.

Speaker 1 (28:11):
I'm not talking about the Facebook armchair
politician.
I'm talking about get out, getelected and fix things.

Speaker 2 (28:18):
Yeah, and stand for the principles that our founders
first brought, which is libertyand the pursuit of happiness
life, liberty, pursuit ofhappiness.
That your rights don't comefrom government.
Right Government iscommissioned to protect those
rights that were granted to youby God.

Speaker 1 (28:33):
Our rights.
That's right, Citizens, ourrights need to be protected and
you know it's.

Speaker 2 (28:39):
I like what you said.
We don't take up arms againstthe government Now.
The founding fathers left us amechanism for protecting
ourselves from and out ofcontrol government.
That's very different thanactually being offensive.
You're going to lose.
That's the first thing, becausewe've given them trillions of
dollars to arm themselves.
So you're not going to prevail.

(28:59):
That's the first problem.
And the second problem is isonce you go there, it's over.
Once a strong rebel we almosthad in the Civil War, you know,
once you have a strong,fortified, you know army that is
fighting against another armyof the same, you know, of the
same country, it's over.

(29:22):
It is only by the grace of Godthat the Civil War did not end
up as a, you know, as a broken.
We would end up like in Europewith, you know, 52 different
countries, all factions andwarring, and it would just be a
broken system if we survived itat all.
So that's not the point andthat's not the way.
The way is is that, first andforemost, you get your house in

(29:44):
order.
You get your own house in order, get out of debt, be a good man
who's trying to make himselfbetter, draw to yourself people
of like-mindedness and then getinvolved, go do something you
know and, for goodness sakes,please, please, consider giving
up the left versus right lie andgo and embrace your neighbor,

(30:05):
regardless of his politicalpersuasion and make friends and
be friends and countrymentogether, regardless of your
differences, and fortify yourcommunity and your neighborhood,
man, because that's whatmatters.

Speaker 1 (30:19):
That's the Masonic thing to do.
That's right.

Speaker 2 (30:21):
The Uniparty wants us to continue to fight left
versus right, but they're notleft or right.
They're about themselves andtheir money and their power.
That's the Uniparty.
What we need to do is give upthe left.
I say this all the time, I saythis too much.
Give up the left versus right.
Lie and embrace your brotherbecause he's a fellow human
being created in the image ofGod, and from there move forward

(30:43):
.
Okay, you ready?

Speaker 1 (30:45):
Well, imagine in Europe if you took all the
countries and overlaid like thesize of the United States.
How many countries in Europewould that take up?

Speaker 2 (30:54):
Oh, my gosh A lot, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (30:56):
So imagine ramming all those countries into one
government.
Now, right, it's not going tobe pretty and ours isn't pretty.
We have a big country.
We have people with manydifferent backgrounds.
The coast lifestyle is verydifferent from the middle and
the upper parts of our country.

Speaker 2 (31:13):
Showing off.

Speaker 1 (31:14):
It's just different and we are very different, but
we're not.
We can't separate and haveindependent trade agreements.
I mean we're one country.
We have to figure out how towork with each other.

Speaker 2 (31:24):
Right.

Speaker 1 (31:25):
You don't have to like the lifestyle of the other
person or even really understandit, you just have to respect it
.
That's right.
Have to let them live it.

Speaker 2 (31:33):
Yeah, that's right, and everyone's individual
beliefs and structures aretheirs.
And I always go back to themarketplace of ideas, and this
imaginary marketplace that I'veconstructed in my crazy mind is
a place where anyone can.
Anyone is welcome, as long asyou come with gentleness and

(31:53):
respect, wanting to share yourideas with others.
But the minute you try to forcesomebody in the marketplace of
ideas into your way of thinking,then it's no longer a
marketplace, it's no longer aplace where I can go and shop
and look and learn and draw fromthe things that I need in my

(32:15):
own life.
And then the other thing Ialways say and you guys know
what I'm going to say you got togo into the marketplace of
ideas knowing what youpersonally believe and why you
believe it, otherwise you'regoing to go in there and you're
not going to understand what'sgoing on.
So can we move on now?

Speaker 1 (32:29):
Sure, we can do that.

Speaker 2 (32:32):
All right, I'm going to read it, this one paragraph
right here, and then we'lldiscuss it.
I'm on page 63 in our littleblue book, although your
frequent appearance at ourcommunications is earnestly
solicitated.
Yet it is not meant thatmasonry should interfere with
your necessary vocations, forthese are.
These are on no account to beneglected.

(32:52):
Neither are you to suffer yourzeal for the institution to lead
you into arguments with thosewho, through ignorance, may
ridicule it.

Speaker 1 (33:02):
Yeah, I mean, that's pretty self-explanatory.

Speaker 2 (33:04):
Right.

Speaker 1 (33:05):
I'm not a lot of esoteric thought to that one.
It's like hey, we are going toask you to come do a lot of
things.

Speaker 2 (33:10):
Right.

Speaker 1 (33:11):
Don't feel like you have to be at all of them.

Speaker 2 (33:13):
That's right.
Yeah, don't be like us.

Speaker 1 (33:14):
You got things going on and you should have things
going on in your life, butmasonry is going to be here and
we would appreciate it if youjust showed up every once in a
while.

Speaker 2 (33:24):
That's right when you're able to just think about
us.

Speaker 1 (33:26):
Don't forget about us .
Right, basically, absolutely,and you know you're fair
statement right.

Speaker 2 (33:30):
You're paying an annual due.
You're paying your annual dues,which we appreciate.
So why not, when you can comeon into lodge and sit down and
have dinner with the brothersand and and be a part of what
you can, as you can If you're?
If you're a young guy with, youknow, three kids and a wife, I
mean your ability to get down tothe lodge and do so is going to

(33:52):
be severely limited, andeverybody who is reasonable in
the lodge understands that,totally understands that.

Speaker 1 (33:58):
You know everybody's in a different phase of their
life and they have a lot ofdifferent things going on, and
masonry fits in differently asyou go through your own life.
There's times when you're goingto be more active, when you
have more time, and then there'sgoing to be times inevitably if
you're in the fraternity longenough where it's not going to
be part of your life for alittle while because you just
have too much stuff going on.

(34:19):
And that's normal.
It's normal for every mason.
So we shouldn't be judginganybody else for their level of
participation, because it'sprobably the best they can do at
this point.
But anybody who gets masonrygets that you get a lot out of
going, even if you're not anofficer, even if you're not you
know, just being there you get alot out of it.

(34:40):
Here's a good example.
You're a fairly new mason,relatively speaking.

Speaker 2 (34:44):
I am.

Speaker 1 (34:45):
When you've met a lot of new masons now.

Speaker 2 (34:48):
I have, I'm not a normal new mason.

Speaker 1 (34:50):
You're in a different situation than most people.
You travel a lot.

Speaker 2 (34:53):
Right.

Speaker 1 (34:53):
You get to meet a lot of people.
Now, when you meet a new masonfor the first time and you're
hugging that person like abrother, like a brother you've
never met him in his life.
Are you thinking about who he'sgoing to go home and have sex
with that night when you givehim that hug?
Are you thinking about who hevoted for in the last election
when you gave him that hug?
Are you just thinking this is abrother, I want him to know

(35:18):
that I love him and we're inthis together?
That those are the thoughtsgoing through your head when you
meet a new person.
As a mason, you think, oh, Iwant to show this person that I
actually have a lot of love,that I'm open, that I trust him.
Like those are the things thatwe think about when we need a
brand new person off the streetwe've never met before.
That's a mason, that's for me.

Speaker 2 (35:39):
No, no, I completely agree with you.
That's the beauty of masonry.
It sets up in the lodgeenvironment that anybody, from
any background, it doesn'treally matter what your personal
life is we come together underthe precepts and concepts of
masonry.
We, under brotherly love,relief and truth, we come

(36:02):
together to better ourselvesthrough knowing other people
from different backgrounds.
I think that's the beauty of it.
I think that's one of thereasons why, in the founding of
this country, masonry was sointimately involved in it,
because it was a place wherepeople from all wildly different
backgrounds and situationscould come together and craft

(36:25):
out this new idea forself-government.
That had to be done.
Yes, most of them wereChristians, I get that, but it
was done outside of the church,even though, I mean, at the
founding of our country, most ofthe states had a state church.
Believe it or not, that'sactually true.

(36:45):
The Presbyterian church was theofficial church of Virginia, of
the state of Virginia, at thefounding of this country.
But notice, they didn't use thechurch as the place to develop
the concept of a free, of aconstitutional Republic.
They used a different place, amedium where all the different

(37:07):
faiths could come together andcraft this thing out, based on
Individual liberty and freedomand the pursuit of happiness for
each individual.
You know, like we said, youknow the the rights granted by
God to man, not by government.
This could not have happenedwithin the context of different
denominations and and anddifferent, different religions

(37:28):
and Familiar background.

Speaker 1 (37:30):
It couldn't have happened without Freemasonry.
It couldn't happen.
I don't think it could havehappened country couldn't exist
without I fraternity guiding ourfounders.

Speaker 2 (37:38):
I think so because the lodge it was like it's the
pub in Europe.
A Lot of change happened in thepubs in Europe because that's a
way of life for them there, buthere it was in the, it was in
the lodges and that's where theymet and that's where a lot of
it, and they met at pubs.

Speaker 1 (37:55):
The lodges were both worlds.

Speaker 2 (37:56):
I Think back then they were able to have a grog or
two while they were in lodge,but today we don't, because of.

Speaker 1 (38:04):
Well, this is America , and gotta subdue our passions,
and that doesn't help.

Speaker 2 (38:08):
We like to create laws that we end up having to
live under.
So yeah, but.

Speaker 1 (38:13):
I mean, imagine that you could take that lesson of
Freemasonry into your life.

Speaker 2 (38:18):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (38:19):
When you meet your neighbor who you never met right
, just give them a hug like thatand you're not thinking about
oh, who wouldn't?
Then what is doing what youknow?
You're just looking at him as ahuman being that's right.
That's reading them into yourlife, yeah if you could take
that into your life, we wouldhave a lot less problems.

Speaker 2 (38:34):
That's right If my, if my neighbor happens to be of
a different religious persuasionthan mine.
But his roof is leaking and Ihave the ability to repair his
roof because he can't afford todo so and the water is dripping
down on his children's head,then what does it matter?
What background, what, whatanything about his life or his

(38:57):
belief structures?
I have the ability to help thisman, this person created in
God's image, and I should do sowith all haste.

Speaker 1 (39:06):
And with joy in my heart.
That's right hearts in mind.
That's right way to have themthink differently about you.

Speaker 2 (39:10):
That you just didn't even ask, yeah, and and I just
would encourage every brother toadopt that attitude you know
and and to employ it into yourlife.
Now, listen to this.
Neither are you to suffer yourzeal for for the institution to
lead you into arguments withthose who, through Ignorance,

(39:31):
may ridicule it.

Speaker 1 (39:32):
Well, this is really important for entered
apprentices.

Speaker 2 (39:34):
Yeah, it really is here.

Speaker 1 (39:35):
Yep, because you are going to be very passionate
about the fraternity you justjoined and you are full of
Energy for the fraternity.
And you, when you become amason, guarantee you, when you
start telling people, people youwouldn't suspect are gonna tell
you that you just joined a cult.
Yep, you're now an evil lizard,pedophile, worshiping whatever

(39:59):
right.
I don't even know what thelatest conspiracies are, but you
will get that.
And here's the thing Don'tengage them.
Do not engage no it's not gonnabe worth your time.
You're not gonna do anythingbut feed into their need To talk
about this theory that theyhave.
They don't care what you haveto say and you are gonna be

(40:21):
zealous.
This is right.
It's so right.
You've been there.
Yeah, oh yeah anybody that's anentered apprentice can attest.
This is gonna happen to you, sodo remember not to engage, and
this is something that peoplereally lament about our
fraternity that there's so muchnegative Information and nobody
goes out and tries to correctthem.
I have a feeling they've triedthat, guys, yeah, and they

(40:44):
realize it's not gonna get youanywhere.

Speaker 2 (40:47):
No, no, it's a waste of time, because Anybody who
would first of all, anybody whowould approach you to tell you
that what you, you just joinedan organization and you
shouldn't have and you're wrongin doing it, please quit
immediately anybody who wouldsay that to you, who knows you
is, is acting out of ignorance.
Anyways.
Why bother?
They're not, you're not gonnachange their mind standing there

(41:09):
in front of them, that's thefirst thing.
Secondly, if you're an EA andyou're, and you're listening to
this and you're zealous aboutwhat you just got into and
you're, and you're, you'repumped, and you come across
somebody who wants to tell youthat you just joined a cult and
eventually they're gonna haveyou riding a goat Wearing, you
know, women's underwear,whatever it is that's out there
lately.

(41:30):
Don't engage them.
But.
But if you have, if it sparksquestions in your mind, or if
you have a doubts or problems,come talk to one of our elder
statesmen.
Come talk to, you know, dougDobbs.
Or or right, wishful, hard, oror Worshipful burns district has
every district has a guy inthere that you can sit down and
say this is what they said aboutthis and, and you know, and it

(41:54):
really bothered me.
Well, go talk to somebody inthe lodge, get some information.
Don't believe everything youhear right away, but do your, do
your research, do your homework, be diligent to understand what
it is that you've gottenyourself into.
Look, I can tell you right now,and I'll share a story about it
here, what happened to me theother day.
But, as you know, as as a, asan ordained chaplain in the

(42:18):
Christian faith, I I get a lotof.
I was just up in North CarolinaWith my family and you know they
, at this point they won't evenbring up Masonry at all.
But my, my brother-in-law didmake a little side comment About
it.
But anyway, don't forget itrabbit hole, don't get involved,

(42:41):
brother.
Okay, don't get involved, don'tget discouraged, don't feel
like you have to defend Masonryas an EA.
You know, with all of your zealand gusto, just hey, thanks,
man.
You know I'm new at it.
I'll let you know how it goesif any of those things that you
say are true.
Well, you know, you know me,I'm not gonna.
I'm not gonna continue to dosomething like that.

Speaker 1 (43:03):
That should be the best way to deal with it as an
entered apprentice, because youdon't know much right, yeah you
don't, you're not in a positionto argue for Freemasonry at this
point.
I mean, you, you know enough,I'm sure, to deal with the
person you're talking to, butreally that you have a lot left
to learn a lot.
So don't it's not a good pointin your Masonic career to become

(43:23):
the warrior for Freemasonrywith the non-Masons.
That's right.
The the thing is, once youbecome a master Mason, you're
gonna have so much opportunityto learn where this hateful
thought came from in the firstplace.
We were at Hillsboro Lodge forthe Masonic symposium, so, oh,
last year, yeah, that we wereasked to speak at.

(43:44):
Thank you so much, by the way,we're Carol.
We're Carol.
Shout out.
We got to get up there.
Sorry, but we had anopportunity to go and spend a
day learning about Freemasonry,and one of the speakers named
Daniel Molina Gave a speechabout the taxal hoax hoax.
Oh, right yeah had you heardabout that before then?

Speaker 2 (44:03):
I had not.
No, no, that was quiteinformative.
Yeah, it was really good.

Speaker 1 (44:07):
You got some new information and you learned a
little a lot actually aboutwhere some of these thinking
About Freemasonry came from andhow silly it all is originally.
Now you're in a position to,when it comes up, say, let me
explain to you where you gotthat from right right you can
with Confidence, because whenbrother Molina gives a speech,

(44:29):
he cites all of his referencesright back checks everything.

Speaker 2 (44:32):
Yeah, it's very nice.

Speaker 1 (44:33):
It's very nice to have speakers like that in
Freemasonry.
We need more of that.
We need more education and,well, we are committed to trying
to help with that.
Yeah, that's right as much aswe can in our little corner of
the world here.
Look for more of that from us,but go when you see those,
because it's an opportunity foryou to get really helpful
information.
There was other speakers, toothat gave really interesting

(44:55):
speeches, but that one appliesto what we're talking about,
which is where these thoughts ofMason's drink blood and they
right they do.
You know all these dark ritualsbecause they're trying to get
powers.
And you know and learn.
Go research the taxal hoaxright.
Yeah for yourself.
And or come and watch DanielMolina, if you ever seem

(45:17):
speaking in the state about thatparticular one.
You're gonna learn where a lotof that stuff come from and how
silly it is.
Yeah, and you'll be in a betterposition to argue for the
fraternity if you ever have to.
But as an entered apprentice,don't put yourself in that place
.
Shouldn't be something you'vegot to worry about you don't
need to be.
You know defending Freemasonryto anybody.
You're still learning, so justlaugh it off.

(45:38):
That's the best thing you cando.
Haha, yeah, go.
So you're funny.

Speaker 2 (45:43):
That's funny.
Yeah, as soon as they bring agoat, and I'm gonna leave change
the subject.

Speaker 1 (45:46):
Yeah, don't engage, don't let them pull you it.

Speaker 2 (45:49):
Yeah, that's right.
Okay, at your leisure hoursthat you may improve in Masonic
knowledge, you are to conversewith well-informed brethren who
will always, who will be alwaysas ready to give as you will be
to receive Instruction.
Well, there it is right, thereright.
This is important.

Speaker 1 (46:07):
I Just got a new EA class that I was doing catechism
with last night.
I have like six people now mygroup, Wow that is.

Speaker 2 (46:16):
I saw them all in there in the, in the, in the,
the stands there last night.
When I walked in I was likedang, he's got a big crowd.

Speaker 1 (46:23):
I just love doing catechism classes.
Well, you're good at it, youget them involved.

Speaker 2 (46:27):
You can see they're all like really involved.
Yeah, they want to be, and it'sfun.
You make it fun, so that's whenyou learn you know fun, right
that's it should be fun.

Speaker 1 (46:35):
Where's that going with that?

Speaker 2 (46:38):
You were go.
You did it too, didn't youZoned?
I zoned once, maybe twice, Idon't know.

Speaker 1 (46:45):
Yeah, so this is the thing that always comes up and
people are like oh, I can callsomebody, I'm not gonna.
I'm like no, they want you tocall they want you to call.
I'm your instructor, but I'mnot the only guy in frame me, so
really, look, here's Fred cellphone.

Speaker 2 (46:57):
Yeah, call.
Here's Alberto cell phonenumber.

Speaker 1 (46:59):
Yep, here is Kevin Smith's phone number.

Speaker 2 (47:01):
Especially with catechism, because it only
sharpens you.
You get a brother, call hey man, can you?
And hopefully everybody's gottheir little red book With them
master Mason out there, pleasehave it with you all the time or
, even better, keep it in yourhead.
I, and it'll go in your headthe more you do it.
But that's what I was saying.
If somebody calls me, Well, youknow where.

Speaker 1 (47:19):
And says and says hey can you go over?

Speaker 2 (47:22):
You know this with me .
I'm like, yeah, man, Idefinitely can.
I'll take a minute to do that.
Pull the book out and and gothrough it with a brother.
It only strengthens you.

Speaker 1 (47:29):
There's a fear for an inner apprentice that they
don't.
They don't even know if theycan.
They don't know who to callright feel bad if they're
calling somebody.
Don't, this is, this is we'regiving you a charge.
It's like, hey, when you'reready to learn, you call because
yeah, that's right.
They're always gonna be readyto teach always yeah, that's
right, man, maybe.
I'm busy personally.
Maybe I'm in a meeting orwhatever.

(47:50):
Call the next guy.

Speaker 2 (47:51):
Yeah, yeah, that's right, I'm ready if you want it.
Right, if you want it, you willfind it.

Speaker 1 (47:58):
It's there.
If you're an inter-deprenticein the lodge right now, we would
encourage you you have yourinstructor's number to ask him
for two or three other names ofpeople.

Speaker 2 (48:07):
Yeah, you can call that's right, he's busy yeah.
And he'll give you thosenumbers and you'll have plenty
of people to help you right,yeah, for me, when I was going
through doing proficiency, IWould work on it every day and I
hope, if you're an EA and aFela craft or even getting your
get, making your way to masterMason that you're working on it
every day In some small or bigway ten minutes a day, so he

(48:31):
really mean right.
I had shout out to my brother,wade Botkin and I would call
each other every day and we'd goback and forth, you know, with
the catechism, just teachingourselves.
With or without the bookdepends on how we felt and don't
you look back on those?

Speaker 1 (48:48):
I loved it.

Speaker 2 (48:49):
I miss it.
I miss my brother Wade Botkinman.
We need to get him in here andinterview him.

Speaker 1 (48:54):
We do, yeah, very entertaining Individual he's
entertaining.

Speaker 2 (48:58):
He's got a bit of a southern draw too, which I I
definitely appreciate.
Oh yeah, and a super intelligent, maybe brilliant guy with just
an emotional steadiness likeI've never seen yeah, yeah, so
kind of person that just makesyou feel calm when you're around
him right, yeah, and we are ata point now in the show where we
will be.
We will be putting together abunch of interviews so that we

(49:19):
can we can start pumping thoseout again.
Not sure what happened here.
We kind of went through alittle bit of a I don't know,
maybe an attack from the outsideman.
Our jobs just went nuts, ohyeah, and we had to focus on
that.
Believe it or not, we do thispart time I don't know if you
guys know that or not and wedon't get paid a dime to do this
.
We actually pay to do this.

(49:41):
But anyways, that's a differentstory.

Speaker 1 (49:42):
Yeah, um, we pay in many ways.
Yeah, we started this morningat 6 am here recording.

Speaker 2 (49:48):
Yes, so that we can get to our jobs, having left the
lodge at 10 am, at 10 pm Lastnight 30 for me, yeah, so I
wasn't dead by midnight, gotabout five and a half hours.
I can hear the violins goingnow, the tiny little.
Everyone really cares.
Yes, yes, no, no, but I mean,that's what you do for something
you love, you find time for it.

Speaker 1 (50:09):
the people that say my cable to I don't have time,
okay, okay, but I know for me,if something's important to me,
yeah, I make time and I make it.

Speaker 2 (50:19):
And I can tell you this if you, if you take the
time to do some of the work andthen you get an opportunity to
use it in the lodge, it's agreat feeling, man, it's a great
feeling of accomplishment, ofbrotherhood doing.
That's the thing that I alwayssay.
You know about masonry is thecure For for masonry is to do
masonry.
Yeah, because that's the ritualwork that we do.

(50:40):
And it says it, it says it inthe, in the monitor and and
elsewhere that it seemsfrivolous, it might seem like
you know, a play or some kind ofyou know activity that is, that
carries no weight.
I assure you, brother, that isnot the case, because it, it, it
does transform us Into a unit.

(51:01):
We become a band of brothers bydoing this stuff together.
I'm on the, the, the competitiondegree team.
I don't know how I ended upthere.
I'm certainly the weakest linkof the group, but but I find
this band of brotherhoodHappening where we're all just
doing this together and we'resupporting each other.

(51:21):
And it's a common goal that wehave, you know, to go to this
competition and to to bring homethe, bring home the gold baby,
you know, and we're all justsupporting each other.
That's a big part of masonry,and if you're out there
listening, if you're not a masonand you're out there listening,
that's that's one of the greatthings about masonry is the
fellowship and the, you know,working on things together as a

(51:46):
group of men to better ourselves, our, our communities, our
families, you know, I just Ifind that part to be Absolutely
exciting, you know me too.

Speaker 1 (51:55):
Yeah, yeah, you know you get clear direction, which
is why we're going over thischarge together in such detail,
because it deserves Thinkingabout it.
If you break it apart, it's aroadmap for how to behave and
how to go through these degrees.

Speaker 2 (52:10):
That's right.

Speaker 1 (52:11):
Okay, we're not gonna argue with the outside world
now.
We don't have to show up toevery meeting.
That they're gonna ask us toknow is an okay word to say, and
look when you're ready to learn.
There's gonna be people, don'tstress about it.
Don't worry, don't feel badabout it.
We want the call.
Yeah, that's so much timelearning this virtual work and

(52:31):
you go out in the world, in yourlife and you can't talk about
it.
You can't do it, it's, it's.
It's like you'd.
You're a Ritualist, wants anopportunity to do ritual right
and you don't get to make those,you've got to wait for those,
and so when somebody can callyou and ask you about the ritual
, trust me, the brothers want totalk to you.
They want to talk about thisstuff.

(52:52):
You're doing them a favor bycalling them yeah, and and and.

Speaker 2 (52:56):
If you don't get.
If you don't get brother one,call brother two.
If you don't get brother two,call brother three.
Let let your zeal For Masonicknowledge go go down that road,
brother, you won't regret it.
finally, keep sacred andinvaluable, involvable the
mysteries of the order, as theseare to distinguish you from the

(53:17):
rest of the community and markyour conscience among Masons.
If, in the circle of youracquaintances, you find a person
desirous of being initiatedinto the fraternity, be
Particularly careful not torecommend him unless you are
convinced that he will conformto our rules, that the honor,
glory and reputation of theinstitution may be firmly

(53:37):
established and the world atlarge convinced of its good
Effect.

Speaker 1 (53:42):
The end there's a couple of important points, very
important points.
Section one Involvable ininvaluable in Inviable as.

Speaker 2 (53:55):
I'm looking at how to pronounce yeah, invite
inviolable.

Speaker 1 (53:58):
Right.
It just means never to bebroken, infringed or dishonored.
Right so it means keep sacredand don't ever give up or break
your vow.
The mysteries of the orderthat's right mysteries are the
things that we don't tell theoutside world.
The secrets now and it's alsosaying in here that that's what
separates us from everybody elseis that we share the same

(54:20):
secrets.
That's right.
We and we agree to keep themjust between us, and that makes
us different than everybody else.
Yeah, now you know and I know,and all Masons know, that the
secrets we keep To the averageperson would seem silly.
We're talking about a grip, aword.

(54:41):
Oh right things that seem sillyto the outside world.
If they actually got thesecrets They'd be very
disappointed because they thinkour secrets are more like.
This is how you turn.
You know you make a good outroCopper into gold.
Oh, right, those are the kindof secrets for keeping right.
Unfortunately we're keepingsecrets much sillier than that,

(55:04):
but it's.
It's not silly because theyhave historical reference and
they have important like ties toour past.

Speaker 2 (55:11):
Yeah, that's right.

Speaker 1 (55:12):
And also it's just a general test of fraternal
Brotherhood is that we all agree, no matter how silly the secret
is, it's our secret and andthat's what we do as brothers.
That's what makes us different.
We agree to keep certain thingsto ourselves.
That doesn't mean that there'sanything nefarious in the secret

(55:33):
.
So if you're a Mason, keepthose secrets you.
We really really make that.
A prominent part of being aMason is is keeping our
traditional secret secret To theoutside people that are worried
that our secrets aren'tnefarious.
I Assure you they're not there.
They're not there.
Not, we are.
We are attempting me.

Speaker 2 (55:53):
We are attempting to make good men better.
Yes and, in the end, it is abenefit to to man and community.
Listen to this, as these are todistinguish you from the rest
of the community and mark yourconscience among masons.
You know, that's one of thethings that a lot of people say
about you know, my uncle was aMason and he was just such a
good man, or I met this one guyand he was just you know, he's

(56:16):
the coach or whatever he was,and he was just such a decent
human being, you hear it and allthe time, and and I found out
later that he was a Mason.
That's what that's talking aboutright here, that that it he's
being distinguished from therest of the community.
You know a guy, a guy that'sposting all kinds of garbage
Online about other people'spolitical views or other

(56:39):
people's lifestyle, whatever itis.
That's not the mark In thecommunity that you, as a Mason,
want to form, formulate, that is, that is an incorrect
Understanding of what Masonry is.
We're supposed to be marked byhumility, knowledge, strength,
kindness, a willingness to help,a willingness to be, you know,

(57:03):
to be part of the solution.
You know, that's, that's whatis, and and there's, there seems
to be a, a Reservness to, to aMason who understands Masonry,
that we are reserved.
We don't just throw it outthere.
We're, we're, we're reservedwith what we have and what we
share together, and and we wetry our best to, if Somebody's

(57:27):
interested in it, we want totest them, so to speak, a little
bit to see just how interestedthey are, before we give up
everything.
And that's and that's what it'stalking about here be
particularly careful.

Speaker 1 (57:38):
Oh, this is a part that really stood out to me
right now was at the end of like.
I Legitimately remember feelingimpressed when I heard that
line, because in my mind I waslike up here it comes, here
comes the hard sell.

Speaker 2 (57:51):
Right, yeah, I'll do.
It is your credit card number.

Speaker 1 (57:53):
Here's a petition tell them to join.
I was like here we go, they'regonna sell me and they don't
like more money, more money, butno, they said, be particularly
careful, and I emphasize this,if I ever do the charge and you
hear me.
I know, yeah, it sticks torecommend them, right be
particularly careful not torecommend them unless you are
convinced that they will conformto our rules.

(58:16):
So don't recommend somebodythat you don't think is gonna be
a good fit, for.
Not everybody's ready to be afree mason at this point in
their life.
I know I wasn't.
We've talked about this.
When I tried to join the firsttime, I was right to be excluded
.
I Wasn't ready in my 20s.
It could have helped me greatlybut I wasn't ready, to you know,

(58:39):
to contribute or commit to itat that point right.
I'm sure there were times inyour life you weren't ready to
be, you wouldn't have been agood representative of yourself
to the fraternity.
No, no, no life and noteverybody is, so be particularly
careful Not to recommend peoplethat aren't ready for this and
at this point in their life.
And, like you just said, thereare a lot of mechanisms to make

(59:01):
sure people really want this.
Yeah, that's right.
We make you spend some time,slow it down, work a little bit.
Yeah, proves that this issomething you want in your life
right.
And I think that's a good thing.
You know we're not beingexclusive.
There's nothing about a personthat would make them not ready
for Freemasonry, other thanwhat's in their heart.

(59:23):
Yeah, that's right, that'sright not your station in life,
not how much money you make nojob, you have no color of your
skin, none of that's gonnamatter.
If you don't have it in yourheart, then you shouldn't.

Speaker 2 (59:34):
You shouldn't join you shouldn't recommend that
person.
Even if your grandpa was in theIlluminati, it won't get you
anywhere with us, bro it won't.
So the question is I like that.
It's a question answer rightUnless you are convinced that he
will conform to our rules whythat the honor, glory and
reputation of the institutionmay be firmly established and

(59:56):
the world at large convinced ofits good effect.
Listen when you, when you, whenyou do things that are contrary
to Masonic principles out inthe public, you are not honoring
, you're not honoring thefraternity.

Speaker 1 (01:00:13):
No, you're embarrassing.

Speaker 2 (01:00:14):
You're embarrassing the fraternity and you're
embarrassing yourself and and Isaid it last night, I brought
this up at the beginning of theshow I told everybody at our
meeting last night if, if, if,you're posting, speaking,
writing about another brother ina negative way, it's never
right, it's never a good idea,it's, it's not a Masonic thing.

(01:00:37):
You are violating Masonic lawsand principles.
Is what you're doing?
Even if what you're saying istrue, even if what you're saying
you think is true or might evenbe factually true, it doesn't
matter.
You're still violating yourobligation because you're
bringing dishonor, and and and,latin and, and, dishonor, and,

(01:00:57):
and, ruining the reputation.
I don't know why I'm having ahard time with this ruining the
reputation of the institution.

Speaker 1 (01:01:02):
So here's the thing Fred has been very clear about
what not to do.
Yes, you've been listening tothis episode.
He said it multiple timesthroughout what not to do what
not to do.

Speaker 2 (01:01:13):
Here's what you should do.

Speaker 1 (01:01:14):
Yes, let's hear that part what you should do if you
have any concerns or issues withthe brother is go to that
brother, look him in the eyesand Tell him what you have on
your heart and try to do it in away that's not insulting, or
yeah right, gentleness andrespect but definitely tell him

(01:01:37):
as clear as you can what yourissue is.
Now.
What he does with that is goingto dictate your next actions.
Right?
Okay, you did your job as aMason.
That's the first step.
Always go to the person andtalk to them.
It that can be hard to dobecause it's not something we do
in our regular life.
We don't usually have honestand open, difficult

(01:01:59):
conversations with people thatwe are acquaintance with, and
it's really hard if we love themBecause you don't want to hurt
their feelings, you don't wantthem to have bad feelings about
you.
You don't want them to goaround telling everybody you're
the guy that complains.
Whatever the thing is, you havean obligation to your brother.
You need to fulfill theobligation.

(01:02:20):
Talk to your brother, even ifhe's not being Masonic,
especially if he's not beingMasonic.
That's where you need to talkto talk to your brother.
If that gets you nowhere, ifthe behavior or Whatever the
issue is seems to continue, thenyou keep it within the
fraternity and you go to yourjunior warden of your lodge.

Speaker 2 (01:02:43):
That's right.

Speaker 1 (01:02:44):
As you mentioned earlier, the person that you
need to go to, because he is thechairman of the vigilance
committee Right and their job isto make sure that all members
of the lodge are beingharmonious and respectful and
Masonic right.
So if you've tried to deal withit man to man and if you're not
getting anywhere, you go to yourjunior warden, you explain to
him the situation and if he'sdoing a good job he may ask a

(01:03:06):
couple questions of other peopleinvolved.
But he's gonna wind up having ameeting with the three of you
and try to mediate the situationto see if he can help you Talk
to the brother and help you gethim to change his behavior.
Sometimes it takes Two people,it just does.
Sometimes, that's right, peoplethink one guy's complaining.
But when you sit in a room forthe purpose of talking about

(01:03:29):
what's happening, it takes on adifferent level and raises your
awareness of the issue andhopefully that will resolve
Whatever the problem is.
If it doesn't resolve the issue, the junior warden is the one
that should Kick it up the line,and if he doesn't, then it's
your prerogative to kick it upthe line and file Masonic
charges If you feel like it'sthat bad and it's not changing

(01:03:51):
right.
Or if your junior warden doesn'tresolve it and you don't feel
like it raises to the level ofbringing Masonic charges against
someone, you can go to yourdistrict deputy grandmaster,
correct?
Who's the representative of thegrandmaster in your district
and has the ability to act?
that's right the situation.
I recommend that you ask thejunior warden to help you go to

(01:04:13):
the district deputy right andyou know you need to follow
these steps.
These are the ways that you doit in a respectful, masonic way,
because you're doing it withthe intention of helping the
brother.
He needs to change his behavior.
He's hurting himself or he'shurting the fraternity.

Speaker 2 (01:04:28):
This isn't about winning an argument.

Speaker 1 (01:04:31):
This is about helping a brother and bettering a
situation and protecting thefraternity and protecting the
paternity we need to make surethat our integrity in the
community stays impeccable, andwe can't.
You also said in the beginningthat we self-police this is what
we have a self government.

Speaker 2 (01:04:50):
This is the masonry, is a form of self-government.

Speaker 1 (01:04:54):
Self-government doesn't mean you go online and
start yelling about stuff thatyou don't like.

Speaker 2 (01:04:59):
Nope, you, you've stepped outside of masonry.
As soon as you do it, firstletter you've typed.

Speaker 1 (01:05:03):
This is how you do it talk to the brother, talk to
the junior ward.
That's right get the juniorwarden help.
You talk to the district deputy.
If you've done all those steps,things still aren't changing
and it's hurting the fraternity.
You, my brother, are obligatedto bring charges If you can't
get it fixed.
If nothing is happening, thenyou need to do that because we

(01:05:24):
each, as Individuals, arerepresentatives of the
fraternity and we each are theprotectors of the fraternity.

Speaker 2 (01:05:30):
Yeah, that's right.

Speaker 1 (01:05:32):
But it starts With the notion that you want to help
somebody that you care about,not that you want to see them,
you know, brought to justice, oryou want to see them burn up
and you want to see them withsomething you want to hurt them
like they hurt you.
That's a human, that's a humantendency.

Speaker 2 (01:05:49):
That's, that's vengeance, and you're not good
at it.
Alls you can do is hurt themback.
That's, that's all you can do.
But true divine, from a divinestandpoint is is to bring
healing and Betterment to allparties, because it's always
wrong.
It is not good when brothers donot Dwell in harmony, right.

(01:06:13):
How good and how pleasing it iswhen brothers dwell in harmony,
right.
That's a scripture that we usein Masonry a lot.
That and that's what it is.
God wants us to dwell inharmony.
He created us originally to bein perfect harmony with each
other under him.
And when we break that and weignore the remedy for it, which

(01:06:34):
is humility and and and thesystems that we have in place,
then then we've.
We've completely steppedoutside of Not only Masonry but
really just the community of man.
And I know it's our tendency, Iknow we're broken, we're broken
men, and it's our tendency, butthe intention originally was

(01:06:54):
for harmony.
Yeah, and Masonry seeks tobring about harmony amongst
Flawed, flawed and broken menand to make good men better, and
to make good men better.

Speaker 1 (01:07:04):
And how do we do that ?
We help them.
We help them.
We tell them to their face hey,what you're doing isn't right,
it's not Masonic.
It's not Masonic brother thething that you could do, better
or different, like teach them,if you can, a better way to do
it.
Give them other, alternativeways to handle whatever the
situation is.

Speaker 2 (01:07:22):
Yeah, and you'll win your brother, you'll win his
heart.
It done correctly.
If you bring, if you bringcorrection with gentleness and
respect to a brother and helistens to you, you have won him
.
You have won him to a betterplace in his life and in yours
and you will be that much closerand the reward for that is
self-evident.
I mean you having closebrothers.

(01:07:44):
Before I came to Masonry I was.
I was a lone wolf man.
I didn't have any friends andmy wife is the one who just kind
of made that comment to me oneday.
You know you don't have anyfriends.
It's like, yeah, I do wait, no,I don't.

Speaker 1 (01:07:58):
You're my friend.

Speaker 2 (01:07:59):
Yeah, right, yeah yeah, you're my friend.

Speaker 1 (01:08:02):
She's like no, I'm your wife.

Speaker 2 (01:08:06):
I could be your friend, but right now I'm your
wife, but and and what you gainIs something that's fundamental
to every man, and that's abrother, and there's somebody
who can go through the goodtimes and the bad times and
understands you and has yourback and has a common purpose
with you, and in Masonry, I havefound that and for that I'm

(01:08:28):
grateful, and I know a lot ofbrothers are shaking their head
yes, right now out there whohave also found it, and we need
to protect it.
Yeah, you know and if there's aour responsibility At vigilance
is the price that we pay.

Speaker 1 (01:08:42):
That's right.
We are the fraternity right now, all of us alive on this planet
that are mason's.

Speaker 2 (01:08:46):
Yeah, it's our job, that's right.

Speaker 1 (01:08:48):
Thank you, that's right and grow it and Use it to
become better people, moreuseful citizens.

Speaker 2 (01:08:54):
Well, brother, once again, another, another epic
episode, and I'm sorry about thelost episode.
This is the replacement for thelost episode.

Speaker 1 (01:09:04):
Yeah, it was very similar to this.
It was very similar, that'sright got the information that
we wanted to go over and weencourage you please Do this in
your lodge.
If you do education in yourlodge, it's not too hard to pick
something out of, like we justdid right.
We covered half of the chargein an hour.
Yeah, you could pick aparagraph in the charge and

(01:09:26):
cover it in 10, 15 minutes right.
Just talk about your thoughts onit and then open it up and see
what the rest of the lodge hasto say about it.
You're getting education.
You're engaging people.
Everybody's learning.
It's a positive thing.

Speaker 2 (01:09:39):
Yeah, that's right, and and as, and you would be
facilitating, facilitating aMoment of Masonic education in
the lodge together with yourbrothers, and it just it.
That can't be a bad thing, man,because we do it all the time,
chris and I do it all time we goto the esoteric discussion
group and we throw a concept outthere to our brothers and

(01:10:00):
really, from that point on wejust facilitate conversation and
it just grows on itself and itjust builds on itself and it
becomes just a wonderful time ofOf brother ship, of brotherhood
and learning that you can't getanywhere else, man.
You're not gonna get thatanywhere else.
It's practical understandingsfor living your life in a way
that is pleasing to God andbeneficial to your brothers and

(01:10:23):
sisters out there when, um when,I'm like this Saturday we're
gonna have a campfire not acampfire, but we'll have a fire
in the backyard.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:10:30):
I'm all sit around it in our chairs and we're all
gonna many of us will be we'regonna have a nice smoke in a
stogie and I'll have us will bewhiskey in my hand.
I'm not an over drinker, butit's a social setting.
It's my house, I'm relaxed, I'mnot driving anywhere.
I'll probably sit on a whiskeyand we're gonna sit and talk
about this fraternity that Ilove and I've realized while

(01:10:53):
it's happening that these aremoments in my life I'm gonna
look back fondly on.
I.
I'm weird like that likeactually having the thought
while I'm doing it like, wow, Ineed to be present because this
is something I'm I know when I'man old man.
If I make it there, I'm gonnalook back at these were the good
times in my life and it makesme enjoy that moment even more

(01:11:14):
with my brothers.
Yeah, that's right, you'll seeme at some point sit back in my
chair and just have a big smileon my face, and that's what's
right through my mind is I'mappreciating this for what it is
.
These kinds of moments aremoments that you're gonna make
that will be very impactful forthe rest of your life If it's
done properly and you you, youcan do it.
All you need is a couple guysto say yeah, we'll try it out.

(01:11:37):
And if you go With a topic inmind, doesn't need to be a big
topic.
No, no conversation will flowright, yeah people will engage.

Speaker 2 (01:11:48):
Yeah, they'll open up , especially in the lodge
setting, when they're allsitting on the sidelines and
you're standing in front of thembringing some kind of you know
little, small little truth, aparagraph like, like Chris said,
open up that blue book, grab aparagraph, read it first and
then read it out loud and justbegin, just begin to open people
up.

Speaker 1 (01:12:06):
What does it mean?
Yeah, how do you take that?
How do you take that?
Have a different take on this.
Yeah, watch what happens.

Speaker 2 (01:12:11):
Yeah, it's, it's absolutely amazing and you won't
regret it.
And if you do that, please sendus an email and let us know how
it went and if there's anythingwe can do to help Fred at on
the level with Fred and Chriscalm or Chris at the longest
email address on the internet.
For a reason, I haven't saidthat in a while.

Speaker 1 (01:12:31):
We should like live stream one of these things.
I don't know.
Do you think that would inhibitpeople from sharing if we, if
we made it like live on theinternet?

Speaker 2 (01:12:39):
I think we should.
I think we should get there.
Yes, I I think it looks funyeah.
I don't think we should do itevery week.
Once a month, maybe once amonth, we'll start advertising
it.
Guys listen up and and thenmaybe you guys can log in While
we do a live stream, and, yeah,we'll set that up and give it a

(01:13:00):
try, but maybe like once aquarter, maybe we open one up to
the public.
Yeah, yeah, just maybe we'llget Alex Jones to call in and
see.
Oh sorry, brother, I did itanyway.

Speaker 1 (01:13:14):
Yeah, that'd be great if he called in, because that
brother you know could probablyuse a little masonic light in
his life.

Speaker 2 (01:13:19):
I had another situation.
I listen to a lot of podcastsand when I when I get into a
thing where I want to, I want tolearn and do some be taught
some things, I I use theinternet, especially YouTube, to
educate myself in differentways and I have just a plethora

(01:13:39):
of teachers out there that I goto in Certain six situations.
Yes, yes, the Illuminati and IStudy the scriptures a lot like
every morning, and I've been onthis track of Study lately,
which is just exciting man, I'ma geek, so it's really exciting
to me and maybe someday I'llactually use it to the benefit

(01:14:00):
of others, but right now it'scompletely benefiting me.
But I tuned in to a pastor thatI've listened to for years and
he was doing the teaching on thesubject that I've been studying
and all of a sudden, out ofnowhere, is he blurts out and
Masonry is a cult, and it's justlike I'm driving along

(01:14:21):
listening to it, trying to, youknow, get the information I need
, and if this just jumps out atme, like I'm pulling over to
hear this and, and so it sparkedme to take, I'm leaving the
track, the study track I'm onand the study track that I'm
picking up is is masonry a cult?
And how can I formulate andArticulate to a person in very

(01:14:47):
clear and simple ways that it isnot.
So this is where I'm going withmy studies and you can go to my
substack, which is the compassand the cross on substack, and
I'll be.
I'll be throwing out some of myideas and thoughts there.
Feel free to comment or to helpout in any way you want on that
, on that, on that it's thecompass and the cross on sub, a

(01:15:11):
substack calm.
But, um, yeah, so that's that'swhere I'm headed now with my
insane deep dive study.
Is it a cult?
And if not, this is my premise.
And if not which I don't thinkit is Then how do I clearly and
succinctly articulate that tosomebody who thinks it is?
Now, I know we talked aboutdon't argue with people.

(01:15:33):
I'm not talking about arguingand fighting with people over
stuff.
But if you got a guy who'sasking questions about masonry
and they think it's a cult, how,how can you articulate to
another person that it isn't,and and in a way that is
truthful and informational?
So that's where I'm headed withthat.

Speaker 1 (01:15:52):
Well, you have to ask yourself how do you define a
cult?
Well, because they a cult islike a very broad term.
Are we talking really what theterm cult means?

Speaker 2 (01:16:02):
Well, what he meant?
What?
What Pastor Mark Driscoll?

Speaker 1 (01:16:04):
meant just minute is a derogatory, no, no no, what he
specifically means is the.

Speaker 2 (01:16:10):
The original definition of a cult is any
religious organization, anyorganization that calls itself
religious but does not hold tothe traditional tenets of the
Christian faith.

Speaker 1 (01:16:22):
So any other faith other than Christianity correct,
so that was originally kind ofa derogatory term for someone
that's not of your face.
So now it means a cult, or acult Means just anybody who's
into something I don't agreewith yeah, that's too broad and
the term cult definitely has aderogatory meaning today to it,

(01:16:43):
because I mean, I watch a lot, alot of documentaries on cults,
unfascinated by it right, butthey've reinterpreted that word
correct.
Well, today In academia thereare some litmus tests for is
something a cult or not?
One of them is a singlecharismatic leader that everyone

(01:17:05):
has unwavering devotion to yeah, that would be like a Guyana.

Speaker 2 (01:17:08):
What's the Jim Jones?

Speaker 1 (01:17:10):
like Jesus, for example.
He's not a live person, so canyou call it a cult?
I don't think so.
A cult is like you said, jimJones.
This is a man who's alive andliving today, who's telling you.
He's the only way.
He has all the answers.
He needs to be listened to.
Without question.
Freemasonry doesn't have aperson like that.

Speaker 2 (01:17:30):
No, no.
But I do need to just remindyou that Christianity believes
that Christ is alive, Just.

Speaker 1 (01:17:36):
Oh, yes, that he is a little more cult like.

Speaker 2 (01:17:38):
Well, you know the story, christmas and Easter
story.

Speaker 1 (01:17:41):
You know those Christian standpoint, right,
right yeah, about Christmasbeing the birth of Jesus and
then the death and resurrection,oh, from from the.
So I thought resurrection meanthe was raised, like you know,
raised up, and he had a Physicalpresence, only to show himself
to certain people to know, tobolster their faith.

(01:18:04):
He showed himself to like.
Well, let me couple peopleright.

Speaker 2 (01:18:06):
I don't know how we got here, but from a Christian
perspective, he was born a humanbeing through a human being,
but divine.
So that's the hypostatic union.
And then he lived the life thatwe could not live.
He ticked off the church andthe church had the government
murder him, which was part ofGod's divine plan, but but he,

(01:18:28):
being God, could not be held bydeath, therefore was raised and
is now seated and will returnagainst.
We'll return again from theplace where he is seated so you
consider him alive, like fleshand blood alive.
Well, no, he is, here we go.
No, you said he's.
No, he is alive and rightbecause in my mind he Jesus.

(01:18:51):
His body he was risen up intoheaven his physical body has
been transformed into a heavenlybody, as Will all those in the
end be raised to the same so nota physical flesh and blood
person.

Speaker 1 (01:19:04):
Currently no.
Jim Jones was.

Speaker 2 (01:19:06):
Jim Jones was right.
That's where we, how we gothere, but I just wanted to make
the comment that that anyway,let's move on so another litmus
test for cult is they are goingto separate you from people that
aren't member of that group.
Right, they have to they have todo that because if you are
around people who are not partof the cult, then they could.

(01:19:28):
You could find out the truth.
You could be brought you knowthe truth from the outside,
could be brought in, like thehail Bob Remember the hail Bob
start comic cult and they allbelieve that there was a
spaceship on the backside of thehail Bob Comet and they all
committed suicide together Afterthey castrated themselves.

Speaker 1 (01:19:46):
That would be a modern-day Explanation of a cult
because it had a single leaderright all followed and they
literally killed themselves onhis word on his word Right they
had to cut themselves off fromtheir family and loved
absolutely yeah, they didn'tthink the way they thought right
.
These are all the litmus testswhere you say cult cult, cult

(01:20:06):
cult right because there'salways, like you say, there's
always a cult leader.
But in Masonry, charismatic oneusually in.

Speaker 2 (01:20:12):
Masonry.
We have a form ofrepresentative government from
the bottom up right, we have aGrandmaster most.
He's only in our state, he onlyruns our state correct the
country doesn't answer to ourgrand and he does not have the
authority to Dictate to theindividual Mason how they're

(01:20:32):
supposed to.
You know what they're supposedto do and think and say no, we
have to approve those changes.
Everything is approved by ourleadership and it's a beautiful
system.
It's very familiar system.
We say this all the time.
It's a constitutional republiclike system of government and
and when it works.
It's really great to see ourmasonic government at work.

(01:20:54):
It really is, and I'm sograteful to our the most most
worshipal bishop, for you knowsome of the moves he's made to
really put us back in anattitude of Using masonic law,
using the masonic traditions tobenefit Masonry, and I'm really,
I really do appreciate.
I look forward to interviewinghim.

Speaker 1 (01:21:13):
I did, I did leave.

Speaker 2 (01:21:15):
I left him a message the other day no pressure, most
worst of all and and I'm onepetition him to be on.

Speaker 1 (01:21:22):
We're petitioning, yes, please sir.
We're in so much trouble now.

Speaker 2 (01:21:31):
But yeah, hopefully it's not too late.
He he did mention that he'd bewilling to do an interview when
he's down in st Pete At theMasonic Lodge and he's a masonic
home as a masonic home and, ofcourse, the first lady who's
very passionate about the peoplewho live in the masonic home as
well, being interviewed.
So that's something we'rereally looking forward to.
I hope we can put that togetherand share that with you guys

(01:21:53):
going forward anyways my cheapshout out to the most.

Speaker 1 (01:21:57):
Yeah, that's right.
Odessa and Glenn Bishop will beon the show yes, it will happen
.
That's right, but what I wassaying is you can argue with
that person that we don'texhibit any of the traits of the
cult.

Speaker 2 (01:22:10):
No, no, I don't have a single dynamic leader.

Speaker 1 (01:22:12):
No, nobody's gonna jump off a bridge if their
district deputy tells them to no, that's right as a matter of
fact.

Speaker 2 (01:22:18):
Quite the opposite probably not.
The deputy would be thrown offthe bridge.

Speaker 1 (01:22:24):
No one's gonna do that.
We not only.
Do we not cut you off from yourfamily and non-believers.

Speaker 2 (01:22:28):
We invite you to bring them to our events to see
who we are and what we're aboutand we invite you to make
yourself a better man, that youwould benefit your family and
that you would be a betterhusband, be a better father, be
a better you know couldcommunity person Overall in your
life, regardless of yourbackground or where you come
from, how much money you have,what you do for a living, it

(01:22:50):
doesn't matter.

Speaker 1 (01:22:51):
We want to make good men, better men, and preserve
the, the honor and then dignityof our ancient fraternity and
the final litmus test for a cultis it has a differing
alternative for salvation thantraditional religions do, and

(01:23:13):
Freemasonry doesn't have that noFreemasonry.

Speaker 2 (01:23:16):
We're not a religion wait to your salvation.
Freemasonry is not a religion.
It is not a religion.
It says it in our documentsvery clearly.

Speaker 1 (01:23:23):
You've already got that when you came to the doors.
We don't let you in, unless yougot that figured out already,
you have you can't be an atheist.

Speaker 2 (01:23:30):
Right, and it's funny .
In our tradition, you know, theatheist Is in the same category
as the fool in the libertine.
Yeah we don't want people whodon't, we're not open to what we
would consider the obvious factof a grand architect, because
it's really tough to look atthis world.

Speaker 1 (01:23:51):
It's a core part of Freemasonry.

Speaker 2 (01:23:53):
It is absolutely the core part in the higher power.
That's correct you believe inGod.
Let's say you believe in God isthe way it's worded.

Speaker 1 (01:24:00):
Yeah, we can say that , because we say it throughout
all of our ritual.

Speaker 2 (01:24:03):
That's right.
Somewhere in one of the one ofthe writings it's that we hold
to the fatherhood of God.
It says that as as part ofMasonry, and that being it just
that, that, that God, the greatarchitect, is the ultimate
authority.
He is sustainer creator andultimate authority over the
lives of them, of a Mason.
That's what you're committingto when you come here.

Speaker 1 (01:24:24):
We refer to God as a parent many times.

Speaker 2 (01:24:27):
Yeah, that's right.

Speaker 1 (01:24:27):
Yep, we are all brothers and sisters of the same
almighty parent, essentially,correct.
And you can call whatever youwant, you can worship however
you want.
That's totally fine.
But you do need to have, likeyou said, some basis of where
you think you know your.
Your view on this needs to befirmly established before you

(01:24:50):
come, or at least looselyestablished right come.

Speaker 2 (01:24:54):
I I always look at it like it's.
It's kind of like it's not thatyou must affirm A belief in God
.
That's the positive.
The negative is, you cannot bean atheist, and I think I think
it's more about that it's.
This would be a greatdiscussion, but I think it's
more about that you can't cometo Masonry, believing in your
heart that all of this is anaccident and that there is,

(01:25:17):
there is no divine.
That because that's whatatheists believe.
They believe in a naturalselection through random
variation, which is theDarwinian, the Darwinian process
, and you can't be a Mason.

Speaker 1 (01:25:33):
That doesn't preclude God.
You can observe that in nature.
The book of nature teaches youthat evolution is real and
happens all the time.

Speaker 2 (01:25:40):
Well, not Darwinian evolution.

Speaker 1 (01:25:42):
Well, yeah, I guess you could the tree of life,
monkey or something, no, thetree the tree of life has been
completely debunked by the DNA.

Speaker 2 (01:25:51):
A discovery of DNA?
Yeah, the Darwin's Tree of Life.

Speaker 1 (01:25:57):
It's no Darwin's Tree of Life.
Oh, look it up.
I know everyone knows ofDarwin's theory of evolution.

Speaker 2 (01:26:03):
Well, the basis of it is the Tree of Life is.
Is that that that concept?
He drew a tree and it shows allthese things.
But over time, in an age ofscientific enlightenment, we get
more and more information Intothe creation, that's my word,
into the creation that's allaround us.
And as time went on, we justfound it just became untenable

(01:26:26):
to believe that things aregetting things started from a
single cell and then from theregot better and better and
stronger and smarter and betterand better and better and all
things are Are as one throughrandom variation and chance.
That's not possible Based onthe actual science.
It's just simply not possible.

(01:26:48):
So I would encourage everybodyto look up intelligent design,
the discovery DiscoveryInstitute.
If you go to, if you go, do aGoogle search discovery
Institute and look into theconcept of intelligent design,
it fits very well with the mace,with the concept in masonry,
and it's it's absolutelybrilliant.

(01:27:09):
These scientists, these, thesewell accomplished scientists and
biologists and andarchaeologists and all of these
brilliant men and women who arelooking into.
Okay, there's clearly a mind,there's clearly a design and a
mind behind all of this.
Let's just, as scientists, gofrom one Hypothesis to the other

(01:27:31):
, to the other and find outwhere it leads, and it's
fascinating where they've endedup.

Speaker 1 (01:27:35):
This is one of my favorite things about that
freemasonry gave me is it openedmy eyes up to the.
There's the book of revelationsand the book of nature.

Speaker 2 (01:27:42):
Yeah, that's right.

Speaker 1 (01:27:43):
The book of revelations isn't everything
Okay.
It's not Because there are manybooks of revelation, but the
book of nature is a commonalitythat we all share.
Yeah, general revelation themore we look at nature through
scientific means, the better weunderstand our creator.
It's it's odd to me that peopleput those things at odds like

(01:28:04):
that.
By looking at you know, theycome up with theories which are
just working theories, becausesome of these things are, in my
opinion, never going to beproven beyond a reasonable doubt
.
Many things like creation, wetalked, we've talked about this
on the car, on the way to anesoteric discussion.
Right, we're like oh, where didit all come from?

(01:28:24):
And you got a scientist in thecar talking about the big bang
theory.
Mm-hmm and you got you talkingabout the book of Genesis, and
really neither one of you are.
Art can be proven wrong.

Speaker 2 (01:28:36):
And one of you can be proven right.
Well, that's right.
What everyone in the car couldbe wrong, but not everyone in
the car could be right.

Speaker 1 (01:28:43):
So, but in there is the conversation.
You're not hurting anyone bybelieving what you believe.
Yeah, and I just side note.

Speaker 2 (01:28:49):
I am not a young earth creationist, just so
everybody understands.
All right, we can go on.

Speaker 1 (01:28:53):
That is an important thing, because that's, yeah,
that's a tough one to get past.

Speaker 2 (01:28:57):
Yeah, I think my, my brothers and sisters in the
church who still hold on to ayoung earth creationism.
I mean, I think they do so outof tradition, which it you know,
it's not a test forChristianity.
You can still be a believer,you know a believer, and and
hold to a young earth or or anot young earth paradigm.

(01:29:18):
The only reason being is thefirst two, first two chapters of
the book of Genesis.
We're not written to give us adate of the earth.
That's not what it's for it.
So it uses the concept of daysas at four for its purpose, but
not for the purpose of tellingus how old the earth is.
Because we can provescientifically I've said this on

(01:29:39):
the show before there is SN 185Is a supernova that we've been
tracking For for a lot of years,and the light signatures from
that supernova that hit theearth are 275,000 years old.
So that's empirical proof,that's mathematical proof, that
that light signature there's alot of other caveats to that, to

(01:30:01):
that statement, but that lightsignature is in fact 275,000
years old.
That's tough to explain.

Speaker 1 (01:30:09):
There's much, much older light signatures being
detected with correct.
Web telescope now correct butyou know, here's, there's two
things that I want to make apoint of.
Science Helps us uncover thetruth of things.
I don't think that anyone canargue that it doesn't Help to

(01:30:29):
uncover the truth the true, thetrue scientific process can
correct and doesn't always, butit can help uncover the truth of
things.
And what is the truth If it'snot the death of a previous
truth?
When something becomes true.
You're killing the truth ofsome, something that existed
before that truth You'd have tothink about that for a while,

(01:30:51):
yeah, it's deep when you thinkabout that, like every truth
kills a Previous truth, so youhave to be careful of clinging
to things so tightly that youcan't see a A different truth
than the one you've decided on,and science Uncovering things
that are new.
It shouldn't worry you aboutlosing your faith.

(01:31:12):
It should get you excited aboutbecoming closer to discovering
the truth of God.
In my opinion, yeah, that's allof these scientific discoveries
in my mind are awakening me tothe greater, bigger picture of
this creation and making it moreundeniable that there's order
to it all.

Speaker 2 (01:31:29):
Oh, I love that, that and that's absolutely true.

Speaker 1 (01:31:31):
Don't fear that.
That the science, because it'sjust helping uncover truths that
are gonna bring the real truthout, but which is you can't deny
there's really intelligentDesign behind all this.

Speaker 2 (01:31:43):
No, you can't.
That's right, it's.
It's there from the smallestPreatomic molecule to the
vastness of the universe.
There's absolutely no way thatthis fight this, this fireball
surrounded by water that'straveling 27,000 miles per
second around the Sun At thesame, at the same 23.78 pitch to

(01:32:08):
the Sun, move at one degree andeveryone dies.
There's no possible way.
This happened by accident,that's just simply not possible.

Speaker 1 (01:32:15):
Blow it up and at the scale that we're now looking at
.
We're so microscopic andIntessibly small or very special
or extremely special.
To protect what we haveabsolutely more reason if that's
what you think.
We're unique in the only lifein the universe.

Speaker 2 (01:32:32):
Well, I don't think we're the only life in the
universe, but we certainly areunique in our universe protect
it then absolutely reallyimportant.

Speaker 1 (01:32:40):
imagine if we snuffed ourselves out of the universe
and the only special Thing likeourselves went out and we did it
to ourselves.
Come on, that's a shame.

Speaker 2 (01:32:51):
Well, if we believe in a sovereign divine being, I
don't think he's gonna let thathappen, but I think you're right
.

Speaker 1 (01:32:57):
Yeah, you're right, yeah and we certainly are trying
to destroy ourselves in manydifferent ways and, and if we
keep it up, if we, it's in ourgenes.

Speaker 2 (01:33:05):
We've never been closer, we've never been closer
to absolutely destroyingourselves.
And it's all for what?
Greed?
For money, greed and power.
And it's always that way, youknow.
But I do believe that there isdivine intervention and, in the
end, if God is who he says he isand the universe is as big as
we know it is then he's alreadygot a plan.
He has to.

(01:33:26):
He's way more advanced than weare.
Yeah, already has a plan.
And we're not thwarting thatplan.
We're not upsetting the plan ofa being that has to be that
powerful.

Speaker 1 (01:33:36):
We're not here's the risk, in my mind, of letting
yourself go too far down.
That thinking is Is if youthink that the Almighty Creators
gonna take care of you, youmight not act in a way that you
need to to make that happen inreality, because I think all
books of Revelation say that Godworks through us.

(01:33:58):
Right like we have to act Whilewe're here and and protect
ourselves, and we have to actjustly, yeah, and and we have to
pursue truth.

Speaker 2 (01:34:10):
It doesn't come natural to us right.
Our natural proclivity is tograb everything for ourselves
and hold on to everything forourselves and Step over you to
get to what I need, even if it'sa noble purpose.
But what?
What we're told in Revelationis that we are to we are to
learn how to be good, kind,gentle, generous,

(01:34:34):
self-controlled, to protect theinnocent, to provide for others.
That's what we have to learn todo.

Speaker 1 (01:34:42):
Vessel of God, then you're a vessel of God.

Speaker 2 (01:34:45):
Not only that, you, you are, you are exerting his,
his tendencies, his personality.
You're living the personality.
He is gracious, he is generous,he is kind, forgiving, he is
forgiving.
When you do these things inyour life, you are very close to
walking in a way that he walked, you know, and that's uh,

(01:35:07):
that's that's the highestcalling of man, in my opinion.
All right, brother, we are atan hour and 35 minutes, right.
I think this has been a reallygreat show.

Speaker 1 (01:35:19):
Got deep on there.
We did apprentice charge, right, yeah, so where you can go when
you talk about this stuff.

Speaker 2 (01:35:25):
I know right, yeah, get out there and do it.
Get out there and do it.
Brothers, um, I don't knowwhere we're going next.
We'll think that through we'llhave something.

Speaker 1 (01:35:33):
I'm sure two more charges we could.
There are two more charges.

Speaker 2 (01:35:36):
And again, if you're a, if you're an EA and you find
out that the show is about thethe master mason charge, you
know it's up to you.
You could.
You could go on to the GrandLodge website and read it for
yourself.
But if you choose not tobecause you want to experience
it for the first time in Lodge,there's nothing wrong with that,

(01:35:59):
brother, I, I applaud you forit.
But it is not.
It's not mandatory.
Some people want to know, toenhance, you know, what they're
experiencing.
Some people don't, to enhancewhat they're experiencing.

Speaker 1 (01:36:10):
That's the beauty of Freemasonry, rocket the way you
want to rock it.
We're not gonna give away anyof the secrets of the ritual.

Speaker 2 (01:36:16):
No sir.

Speaker 1 (01:36:17):
You're still gonna be surprised never have, never
will.

Speaker 2 (01:36:20):
That's right.

Speaker 1 (01:36:21):
But the charges are more about, like, the way we're
supposed to behave in ourdifferent phases of Masonry.

Speaker 2 (01:36:28):
That's right oh.

Speaker 1 (01:36:30):
Yeah, here comes the okay.
It's like when the guy's givinga speech on the Oscar stage and
the music comes on.

Speaker 2 (01:36:36):
Yeah, except I don't know if the music's coming on,
so We'll see.
If not, we'll have to edit itin, which is not a problem.
Chris has done that many times,I appreciate you taking time.

Speaker 1 (01:36:46):
I know you're busy and I'm busy.

Speaker 2 (01:36:49):
Yeah, we're busy, but I appreciate you doing this,
and me too, brother going backover this.

Speaker 1 (01:36:53):
It's always a great time, always worth every minute
of my time.

Speaker 2 (01:36:57):
Absolutely, man.
I love doing this.
We will always do this.
Next year, when you are nolonger the worst full master of
our lodge, we are gonna blowthis thing up, man.
We are gonna take it to thenext level.
I am very much looking forwardto that me too and I'm very much
looking forward to talking toand with you guys on the next
broadcast, and I don't know whatwe're gonna do, but it's gonna

(01:37:21):
be great, because it always is,and if you've listened to the
end, you, you're our hero, man.
We really appreciate you.
Send us an email, man.
Let us know what you think.

Speaker 1 (01:37:29):
If you, let us know what direction we got to go in
if you have a great MasonicLecture idea that you want to
present, get in touch with us.
We're looking.
Yeah, oh absolutely havesomething interesting to share
in Masonry and are willing tocome to an education in person.

Speaker 2 (01:37:45):
Yeah, absolutely, absolutely.
You got it All right, brother.
Until next time I will.
I will talk to you.

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