Exploring the Unseen Aspects of Officer Politics and Freemasonry | More Masonic Etiquette - On The Level Podcast

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:04):
Hey, chris, yeah, fred, what's a Mason?

Speaker 2 (00:08):
That's a really good question, fred.

Speaker 1 (00:14):
You've reached the internet's home for all things
masonry.
Join Chris and I as we plumbthe depths of our ancient craft,
from the common gavel to thetrowel.
Nothing is off the table, sograb your tools and let's get to
work.
This is On the Level.
There he is, the Rebel Yell,the Rebel Yell.
I love it, I love it.
It's gaining in popularity, Imust admit.

Speaker 2 (00:37):
All over the world, people are calling for the Rebel
Yell.
Oh my God, it will be theMasonic greeting.
Yeah, yeah, we are hot.

Speaker 1 (00:42):
Hold on, let me fix that.
There we go.
That's probably a little better.

Speaker 2 (00:47):
Woo, sorry about that .

Speaker 1 (00:48):
That's okay, we're excited.
This morning I've had a lot ofcoffee and you're working on
your first energy drink, or yoursecond.

Speaker 2 (00:55):
It's my first Celcius .

Speaker 1 (00:57):
Oh, is that an energy drink?

Speaker 2 (00:59):
Well, very sparkling energy water, I think so it has
more caffeine than my coffee.

Speaker 1 (01:04):
I know that Does it yes.

Speaker 2 (01:06):
It has Guarana extract instead of.

Speaker 1 (01:10):
Did you say guano?

Speaker 2 (01:11):
No, I don't eat bat poop yet.
Some day maybe oh my gosh.

Speaker 1 (01:18):
Yes, no, folks, we are a serious podcast Eventually
we are a serious podcast,excuse me, sir.

Speaker 2 (01:26):
I am not serious.
Good day sir.
How dare you call me serious?

Speaker 1 (01:32):
This is not serious, we are not serious about being
serious.
We are not serious about beingnot serious.
It's getting deeper and deeper.
Well, brother, how are you man?

Speaker 2 (01:43):
Oh man, I'm good, I'm good I feel like the shackles
loosening on me.
It is.

Speaker 1 (01:48):
It is man.
You are two months and counting.

Speaker 2 (01:53):
Four meetings after this meeting today.
Four meetings away.

Speaker 1 (01:57):
Four meetings away for your glorious year as
Worshfall Master of.
Sarasota 147, the mighty 147 inSarasota.
Florida.

Speaker 2 (02:05):
Yes, we did it.
We got a lot done this year.

Speaker 1 (02:07):
I think we did man In hindsight.

Speaker 2 (02:09):
I was feeling down about it a little and then I
started to try to cheer myselfup and like maybe we did do
stuff.

Speaker 1 (02:16):
Yeah, no, you got a lot done.
I think the unity.

Speaker 2 (02:18):
We did, we did.
I got very little done on myown actually.

Speaker 1 (02:21):
Well, but that's the point.
Yeah, right, you just, you'rejust kind of the orchestrator
the facilitator of change.

Speaker 2 (02:27):
You know the Worshfall Master can't do
anything that isn't approved bythe craft you know Exactly
Cheerleader and chief.

Speaker 1 (02:34):
Unless, of course, they're trying to interrupt your
installation with charges atthe last minute.

Speaker 2 (02:40):
What that would never happen, we'll talk about that
in a minute.
Never happen in Freemasonry.
Not in Freemasonry, no way.
Maybe not in Florida, but itdoes, it does happen.

Speaker 1 (02:50):
Anyway.
So I've got a confession tomake.
I want to talk about it realquick.
You know we here on the levelof Fred and Chris.
We try to be as transparent aswe can be about things that go
on in our lives and I got totell you.
Here's what.
Something happened to me thisweek which revealed a lot to me,

(03:11):
and I just I share this for anyguy listening who's you know
struggling with any kind of likenot being transparent about
your own struggle, your own Waita second.
Your own foibles, your ownerrors and or mistakes.

Speaker 2 (03:29):
What?
Where's this going?
Okay?

Speaker 1 (03:31):
okay, okay.
So I went into work on Fridaymy work.
I don't love my job, man Idon't love it.

Speaker 2 (03:40):
Yeah, I've noticed.

Speaker 1 (03:40):
You've kind of For some time I feel like the last
six months I have been justhating it and I have been in
complete rebellion to the callon my life to move on, Move on,
Do something about this, Don'tjust sit there because you know
you hate it and you're just.
You're not doing anything ofvalue for anybody.
But I ignored it because I wascomfortable, you know, and they

(04:01):
paid me pretty good and all thatstuff you know?
Well, there's just a ton ofoffice, intrigue, politics and
toxicity in that place.
That was just getting worse andworse and worse and as I
checked out more and more, Ibecame the target of.
You know, the ship is sinking,so let's throw.

(04:23):
Who do we throw overboard?
Well, let's throw the guyoverboard that isn't actually
paying attention anymore anddoesn't care anymore and it's
like all right, all right.
I came in on Friday after fiveyears of service to this company
.

Speaker 2 (04:36):
This is fresh.

Speaker 1 (04:37):
This is fresh.

Speaker 2 (04:37):
Yeah, this.

Speaker 1 (04:37):
Friday and the operations manager who is not my
supervisor came in and said,hey, I want to talk to you for a
minute.
I'm like cool man, he's allhappy and cheerful, you know,
and it's all good.
And I get in the office like,yeah, I'm letting you go.
I'm like what?
And he's like, yeah, yeah,we're letting you go.
And then it's as if he wantedto and I'll see you later,

(04:58):
goodbye.

Speaker 2 (05:00):
And I'm like, oh no, oh no you don't, oh, no, you
don't.

Speaker 1 (05:02):
You tell me why right now?
Oh, you didn't let him off.
No, I didn't let him off easy,of course not, and because I'm a
man and he is not so he's like,well, just close the door.
Then he had the door open as ifhe was going to like escape.

Speaker 2 (05:17):
Right.

Speaker 1 (05:18):
And it's like you know, brother, I've been here
for five years.
I've put up with your, you know, with the supervisor guy you
got in the chair there, who'sgot some sort of version of
Tourette's, because out ofnowhere we're all sitting there
working at our desk.
He'll just start blurting outobscenities like effin, mother,
blah, blah, blah, throw hisphone and you know he's that guy

(05:40):
.
He's that guy, you know, buthe's not big, he's he's.
It's worse because he's not abig guy.
He's a little Napoleon guy, thatjust goes off on people, you
know all the time.

Speaker 2 (05:50):
Anyway, it's more like if you don't stop, I'm
really going to get mad Right.
Yeah, that guy.

Speaker 1 (05:57):
Anyway.
So I just made him explain whatit's all about, you know, and
he's like well, blah, blah, this, this, that.
So I realized I was getting alittle hot under the collar, so
I backed off and I said you knowwhat I, I, what I?
What happened was actually?
It was God, our father who whomade me realize hey, hey, yo

(06:19):
this is a good thing.
I mean he'd been trying to tellyou that, yes, god has been
trying to tell me that to getout of there.

Speaker 2 (06:24):
You were doing a little na na, na, na na.
I was doing yon yon, yon, yonyon Right.

Speaker 1 (06:28):
Everything's great, Everything is awesome and and
everything was not awesome,Anyway.

Speaker 2 (06:33):
So I backed off.

Speaker 1 (06:35):
I just, I just calmed down, backed off, I said, all
right, no problem, man, it's allgood, and I and I got out of
there and it was great.
And all of a sudden my phone'sringing, you know, and I've got
opportunities, I got lots offriends and brothers and I'm not
worried about it.
We had, you know, plenty ofsavings and God is, god is with
us.
Who can be against us?
You feel the weight lifted.

Speaker 2 (06:56):
Lifted, I walked out of there.

Speaker 1 (06:58):
I walked out of there just feeling like a ton of
bricks was lifted off.

Speaker 2 (07:01):
Loaded out.

Speaker 1 (07:03):
Yeah, I was like this is such a good thing, you know.
So because it was such a goodthing, I couldn't resist the
impulse to ruin it.

Speaker 2 (07:12):
Oh, don't tell me you went back.
No, I didn't go back.

Speaker 1 (07:15):
But what I did is I was thinking well, I've got a
bunch of stuff that I got togive them back.
You know how it is.
I got keys to everything.
I've been there forever.
I'm a, I'm a project manager,for good and sakes, I've got
access to everything, keys toeverything, I've got trucks and
vehicles, blah, blah, blah.
Anyway, I got to return a bunchof stuff to them.
So I went on Monday morning, Iwent up to my place where I work

(07:36):
out, my happy place, and I'm upon the hill running and doing
my thing, and this idea strikesme Well, why don't I just send
an email?

Speaker 2 (07:45):
I'll just email them.
And it's kind of explained afew things and let them know A
nice, friendly, kind, nicefriendly email, loving email.

Speaker 1 (07:52):
Loving email.
I'll be sure and careful.
I'll edit it.
I'll have my wife read it.

Speaker 2 (07:56):
That sounds reasonable.
That sounds reasonable to me.

Speaker 1 (07:58):
Anyway, I did.
I ended up doing that.
I sat down to write this emailand the first draft of that
email was just an absolute firehose of, yes, fire.
I was just like exploding allover these people and, of course
, making myself look like SaintFred who has been.

Speaker 2 (08:16):
is Fred against the world?

Speaker 1 (08:17):
Yeah, you know, and and so I edited it down, edited
it down, had my wife read it,edited it even some more.

Speaker 2 (08:23):
Added some self deprecation to.

Speaker 1 (08:26):
What I did is I told.
I told the truth on myself andI told the truth on them.

Speaker 2 (08:32):
Well, that's good, isn't it?

Speaker 1 (08:33):
It's good.
Except the way I did it, man,is I just absolutely pulled,
pulled the curtain back on allthe dirty little secrets, like
the first thing that I told themis that the general, the
operations manager that came inand did this to me, yeah.
They hate him.
Everyone hates him, likebitterly hates him.
And, as the story goes, thisman, when he first started, like

(08:56):
11 years ago, was stealing fromthe company, not a small amount
either.
He stole a ton of money andmaterial from the company and he
went.
The owner came in to fire himand he pleaded with him and
pleaded with him and the ownergave him a second chance, and
that was 11 years ago.
He's turned it completelyaround and he's part of the
company and he's actually apretty good, pretty decent guy.

(09:17):
He's not a very, he's not agreat manager, but he's a pretty
decent guy.
Anyway, so this is, this is thecloud that's over this man's
head and everyone hates him forit.

Speaker 2 (09:28):
Damn.

Speaker 1 (09:28):
And they just hate him for it.
Well, I let I let him know andI named names about everybody
who hates him why they hate himand the things they say about
him.

Speaker 2 (09:40):
Not a good idea, oh no.

Speaker 1 (09:42):
Now there's been no reprisal, and I mean,
everything's factual, and he mayhave already known it, but I
just feel like why the hellwould I do that?
Why the hell would anyone dothat?
That's so dumb.
I was free man, I wascompletely free, I was out.
I mean they owe me a bunch ofseverance and stuff.
I'm sure I'm going to get it.
I mean, I'm not worried aboutany of that.

(10:02):
I could have just faded away inhappiness and satisfaction, but
I couldn't do it, man.
I had to throw this letter outthere.
I don't think I said anything.
That wasn't true, but I guessthat's the point.
That doesn't always, thatdoesn't always fix it.

Speaker 2 (10:21):
No, no, in fact, you probably regret it a little.

Speaker 1 (10:24):
I do regret it.

Speaker 2 (10:25):
You do this good man inside of you going ah, darn it,
that wasn't the best move.
The ruffian came out you makeyourself feel good in the moment
.

Speaker 1 (10:34):
I made my ruffian my inner ruffian feel great, you
know.
And then afterwards I'm like,well, now the joy's gone.

Speaker 2 (10:40):
I woke up this morning I was on the high road
and now I'm in the muck withthese guys.

Speaker 1 (10:45):
So during my prayer and study time in the morning,
I'm just like well, Lord, I blewit.
This was stupid of me.
So, whatever the consequencesare, if there are any, I'm ready
to face them.
I mean, God is our Father andhe is a loving Father, and so
he's not like the Father I hadwhere you know, love means you

(11:08):
didn't piss me off today.
That's not the kind of lovethat we can expect from God, who
is in heaven.
So I just went there Instead ofrunning away.
I went there and I said I thinkI blew this this one, dad.
I think I totally blew this oneand I'm still waiting to hear

(11:28):
back from that prayer andwhatever you know, whatever I
got to do, but I want to learnthis lesson.
That's and that's the mainthing.
We all make mistakes, man.
We all do dumb stuff.
But at 60 years old, you wouldthink a guy like me, would you
know, having made this mistakebefore, would have learned it.

Speaker 2 (11:47):
But we don't, we don't, we don't you get kind of
you're always learning, right,you're never not going to be a
human being.
No, you're right, how old youget.

Speaker 1 (11:54):
Yeah, that's it.
That's so true, you know, andeven the 60 year old man can
blow it, and just like you canstill surprise yourself, you can
still make progress and you'restill blowing.
You're still human.
Still, we're still human.
We've still got that rebel inus.

Speaker 2 (12:10):
The fact that you recognize it right away is a
good sign.

Speaker 1 (12:12):
I instantly.
I woke up this morning like ohno.

Speaker 2 (12:15):
Some people would wake up telling themselves more
lies, Like yeah, you were right.

Speaker 1 (12:19):
Yeah, yeah, I'm going to send a second email, an even
better one.

Speaker 2 (12:23):
They didn't respond.
I don't know why you'reignoring me.

Speaker 1 (12:25):
I don't know why you're ignoring me.
You guys are jerks Did you hearwhat I said.
I'm so right, you didn't gothere.

Speaker 2 (12:32):
There's some progress to be had there.
Imagine yourself, like 20 yearsago, in that situation.
Oh no, you probably hit the guy.
He would have laid hands on himright.

Speaker 1 (12:41):
Yeah, I would have laid unholy hands on him.

Speaker 2 (12:43):
Correct, yeah that would have been very.
You got to look at the progress.

Speaker 1 (12:45):
There's been.
There's progress.
There's progress the fact that,instead of running away and
making things even worse, youknow, by saying, ah, screw it, I
blew it, so let's just go aheadand blow it completely.
That was not the case.
The case was you know what?
This, this, this situation.
I could have done better inthis situation.
I should have done better, Iknow better, but I didn't.

(13:07):
Therefore, let's stop, let'sreview some of this stuff in our
mind and let's not make thatmistake again.
Let's work to not making thatmistake another time in the
future.
And that's kind of where I am,and that's the reason why I
wanted to share it this morningwith anybody, any brother out
there who is in a situationsimilar to that man.

(13:29):
If you get to a place where adifficult situation comes your
way and you're able to just holdback, think it through and then
leave with peace in your mindand your heart, don't give that
up.
Don't give that up.
I know it feels like it totallyfeels like you're missing out

(13:51):
on something here, like they'regetting over on you or something
, but they're not.
What they're doing is they'regetting over on themselves.
What you're getting is thepeace and joy of knowing that
you did the right thing.
You walked away, did the rightthing, and the right thing is
what was in your heart to do.
It's never a good idea to justthrow a bunch of words around

(14:13):
and try to justify yourself topeople who don't even care in
the first place.
And now I've probably causedall kinds of whatever office
intrigue was going on there.
I totally kicked over thehornet's nest man it's gonna be
an absolute crap show over thereNow, especially dropping the
bomb.
He thought his sin of the pastwas secret.
Now he realizes that everybodytalks about it behind his back

(14:38):
and that's gonna cause him a lotof grief and trouble, which I
shouldn't have done.
I feel bad about it.
Truth is truth.
I mean he did it and it's theconsequences of it, but I
shouldn't have been the one tobring it out.

Speaker 2 (14:49):
It's done now, so you can't take it back.

Speaker 1 (14:51):
No, I can't take it back, but my point for putting
myself on the spot here is onebecause it's good to talk about
these things openly, and sinceI'm talking about this to the
entire world pretty openly.
But I want, if there's anybodyout there who's kind of working
through these things, if you gotsome bitterness, anger inside,

(15:13):
you know that's just holding youup.
If you're, you know I wouldencourage you.
Man, it's not worth it, it'sreally not worth it.
Better to have that peace ofmind.
Go to the wisdom of Solomon inthe book of Proverbs and
Ecclesiastes.
That's all the wisdom ofSolomon.
He wrote all of that stuff andit speaks to this stuff.

(15:33):
That it's just it's not worthit.
It's not worth it.
Anyways, that's my confession.
Well, there you go my story forthis opening of this podcast.
What else you got going on?

Speaker 2 (15:45):
man, so you're a free agent right now.

Speaker 1 (15:47):
I am a free agent.
I have never, I haven't feltthis free in a long time and I
thought waking up is great thesedays.

Speaker 2 (15:54):
Waking up and the birds are chirping and you smell
the flowers Like your breakfasttastes better Like ooh, this is
living.

Speaker 1 (16:02):
It's really good, you know, and I'm in a good place.
You know, I have a verymarketable skill, which is great
, which I'm blessed by.

Speaker 2 (16:10):
Which is breaking legs?
Hey, forget about it.
Which is breaking?

Speaker 1 (16:12):
legs.
Forget about it.
But that's not quite as indemand as it used to be.

Speaker 2 (16:17):
You know what I'm saying.
It might be coming back.

Speaker 1 (16:19):
It could be coming back though.
Yeah, that's right.

Speaker 2 (16:21):
Ruffians will be in demand once again.

Speaker 1 (16:26):
Anyways, that's for you, brother, who's ever
listening, who needed to hearthat.

Speaker 2 (16:30):
Thank you, it's good to share that stuff.

Speaker 1 (16:32):
So you know we talked last show about this deal going
on in Texas and with the GrandLodge of Texas.

Speaker 2 (16:43):
We didn't know a whole lot.
We didn't know much.
We just knew something wasgoing on at the time.

Speaker 1 (16:46):
Right, we did a little more research.

Speaker 2 (16:48):
Yeah, oh did we, did we ever.

Speaker 1 (16:50):
Now there's a website out there.
It's called Texas Masons forTruth.

Speaker 2 (16:56):
The number four, truth, yeah.

Speaker 1 (16:58):
Oh, number four, Texas Masons for Truth, and
we've kind of been going throughit.
Now this would be now.
We said yet last week that itlooks like, from the limited
information we had, it lookslike the old guard is not giving
way to the young guard comingin the new guard.
The old guard wants to holdtheir position.

(17:19):
And we said this out ofignorance, guys, we don't know
for sure.
We've reached out to thebrother in question, the quote
young guard person, and thenwe've also reached out to the
website here, Texas Masons forTruth, asking for if one of
their representatives would comeon the show and kind of share

(17:39):
with us what they know fromtheir perspective.
We'll see what happens there,but I think it's worth talking
about because we just watched avideo.
Yes, we did that was mindblowing brothers, when can they
find that YouTube video?

Speaker 2 (17:53):
It's at texasmesonsfortruthcom Ford
slash blog and you can find thatin their blog called
Installation Interrupted thevideo's right there, the
installation, up into the pointwhere they literally, as they
were about to install, theirgrand junior warden, brought
charges against him During theinstallation.

Speaker 1 (18:14):
And the charges were in an envelope, in the man's
hand who was announcing thecharges and he says and were
handed to and hands it towhoever it is at that moment.
So the charges were filed at agrand lodge meeting and the
gentleman who stood up to refutethis was spot on.

(18:38):
That guy must be a lawyer,because he was good.

Speaker 2 (18:41):
Well, ok, there's a lot going on.

Speaker 1 (18:42):
Let's set the scene.

Speaker 2 (18:44):
The scene is.
You have to understand Texas alittle.
I did a little research.

Speaker 1 (18:48):
OK.

Speaker 2 (18:49):
There's no free speech in Texas for Emasonry OK.
First of all since 1933, theyput a law into place.
Let me see if I can find ithere.
Ok, it's called Article 501 intheir digest.
It shall be a Masonic offensefor any subordinate lodge or any
committee officer or memberthereof to circulate, by letter

(19:12):
or other form of publication,other lodges in the grand
jurisdiction proposing oradvocating any amendment, repeal
or enactment of laws in or bythis grand lodge, without first
securing a dispensation for theproper purpose from the
grandmaster.
Wait, wait.
No such dispossation shall begranted by the grandmaster,

(19:32):
except in cases of extremeemergency, which cannot be
reasonably postponed until thenext grand communication.
This grand lodge shall aloneexercise the right in power to
take a referendum of subordinatelodges on questions of
amendments, repeals orenactments of legislation
governing this grand lodge orlodges under its jurisdiction,
except in cases of extremeemergency.

(19:53):
So can I translate that Anylodge violating this article
shall be promptly suspendeduntil the succeeding
communication of this grandlodge and unless restored by
this grand lodge, its chartershall be forfeited.

Speaker 1 (20:07):
Wow so what that means is that you can't say
anything negative about thegrand lodge unless you first
gain a dispensation from thegrand lodge allowing you to.
But then in the law.

Speaker 2 (20:22):
they say and, by the way, we're not giving you any of
this, we're not giving it toyou, it's wow.

Speaker 1 (20:26):
They go on to say that what is that man?

Speaker 2 (20:29):
Any officer of a subordinate lodge violating any
of the provisions of thisarticle shall be promptly
suspended from office by thegrandmaster and charges filed
against him in the form andmanner provided by Masonic law.
Any member of any subordinatelodge now not even an officer,
they're going down to a memberof a lodge.

Speaker 1 (20:45):
A member.

Speaker 2 (20:46):
Any member of any subordinate lodge violating this
provision of this article shallbe charged on Masonic conduct
promptly and will be filedagainst him in trial therein
provided.
So they had one case in 1936.
Shelby Lodge, number 732,actually requested dispensation

(21:07):
to circulate to Lodge as arecommendation of resolution
requesting a name change oftheir lodge to Sam Houston Lodge
.
Dispensation was denied.
They couldn't even talk aboutchanging their name.

Speaker 1 (21:19):
Wow.

Speaker 2 (21:20):
Grand Lodge makes decisions in Texas, not the
members.
So, that's the environment theylive in, apparently there.

Speaker 1 (21:28):
Now there's nothing like that in Florida, right,
florida Grand Lodge.
We have nothing even remotelyclose to that, because Not even
remotely close to that LastGrand Lodge communication there
was a discussion from the grandmaster over the clothing thing.

Speaker 2 (21:43):
Yes.

Speaker 1 (21:43):
And we had discussion , and it was an open discussion,
and it was decided to postponeit for better wording of it and
stuff, and it all worked outwhen we went forward.
I'm assuming that that is thecase for most Grand Lodges
throughout the States.
Yes, I don't think it's unique.

Speaker 2 (21:59):
Is this unique?
That is wise, I don't know.
I don't know.
I wouldn't feel comfortableseeing that after seeing Texas,
Wow.

Speaker 1 (22:05):
I mean that's and then changing the subject, going
a different direction here.
If you look at the video, whatyou're gonna see is a bunch of
really distinguished,distinguished men in 10 gallon
hats sitting around on one sideand doing what they did, and the

(22:26):
man who did it I don't know theman and I'm sure he's a fine
man, but the way he did it was.
You couldn't write a show, a TVshow, better than the way this
went down.
Oh my goodness, I mean, it isso cliche.

Speaker 2 (22:43):
Yeah, you should go watch it.

Speaker 1 (22:44):
Everybody needs to go watch this thing and see what
happened and he interrupted theinstallation, which was a
complete setup.
You can tell the guys.
In my opinion it looks like acomplete setup.
They knew what was coming andthey kind of played it off.
And then this man comes up anddoes what he does right there,
and then what happens after thatis a man comes up and speaks, a

(23:08):
young man comes up and speaksand just completely shuts him
down.
Am I right on that?

Speaker 2 (23:15):
That's past Grand Master Billings.

Speaker 1 (23:17):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (23:18):
He actually made a point of order stating that only
the Grand West is able toaccept charges, and that was
received by applause from thecraft by applause from the craft
right he said excuse me, thisis out of order.
You can't just stand there andaccept charges.
This is grand lodge session.
Those charges need to comethrough a lodge.
You can't just stand there as aman and accept them In grand

(23:39):
lodge.
In open session, they havecertain rules.

Speaker 1 (23:42):
And so he was saying this isn't correct.

Speaker 2 (23:43):
You can't accept those charges.
In fact, Grand Master Smithstates off mic to past Grand
Master Miller, he's not going toget installed, and then
proceeded to call somebody andsays hey, are we allowed to do
this?
And the guy said I don't know.
He said, all right, here's whatwe're gonna do.

(24:03):
We're gonna have a specialsession, we're gonna proceed
with the installation, notinstall this guy, and we'll deal
with it tomorrow.
That's kind of what happens inthe installation.

Speaker 1 (24:11):
So their grand lodge communication is like ours it's
several days long.

Speaker 2 (24:14):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (24:15):
Okay, okay, so they're still gonna have session
and they're just gonna dealwith it in the next day's
session.
I wonder what happened.

Speaker 2 (24:22):
Well, I can tell you.

Speaker 1 (24:23):
Tell me.

Speaker 2 (24:25):
They decided to extend that session to some
unnamed point in the future.

Speaker 1 (24:31):
So he's not installed ?

Speaker 2 (24:33):
No, he's suspended right now, wow.
And as long as he stayssuspended, cannot be installed.

Speaker 1 (24:39):
All right, now the charges that are against this
man.
Let's talk about that.

Speaker 2 (24:43):
I'm not really sure what the charges are, and
they're very vague.

Speaker 1 (24:47):
But they were investigated by a committee and
found to be not true.
Is that correct?
Am I understanding that right?

Speaker 2 (24:54):
It gets deep.
So apparently Terry Stogner'slodge brother, terry Stogner,
past grandmaster of Texas,handed brother Clay Smith, the
grandmaster of Texas, chargesagainst Romsey during the
installation.
You can read the charges there.
They're very vague.

(25:14):
It just says that he violatedsomething and that it'll be
investigated.
So there are no actual chargesbeen provided to this guy.
He is suspended and undercharge, but no specific charge
has been communicated.

Speaker 1 (25:28):
Wow, that is unjust.

Speaker 2 (25:30):
So this is in January , right?
This is their grand lodgesession.

Speaker 1 (25:33):
Last January.

Speaker 2 (25:34):
This January.

Speaker 1 (25:36):
Right In 2023,.

Speaker 2 (25:37):
this happened Right.
So, then, in March, thegrandmaster, clay Smith, orders
a special investigation into thefinancial affairs of the
offices of the grand treasurerthe grand secretary and others.
The grandmaster ordered theaudit to focus on the finding
funds used by the Grand Lodge ofTexas.

(25:58):
On whiskey Apparently saleproceeds from a special batch of
whiskey were donated to theGrand Lodge of Texas.
The production sale took placeoutside of the finances and
jurisdiction of the Grand Lodgeof Texas.
So they're saying they thinkthat Texas law was broken here
by the guy that they're tryingto get.
So they did a specialinvestigation into the annual

(26:19):
audit, which is normal, but theydid a special investigation.

Speaker 1 (26:23):
Yeah, so they could dig, dig, dig till they found
what they were looking for,which they did not, I assume.

Speaker 2 (26:28):
Multiple people were targets of this, including
certain staff of the grandsecretary's office, the grand
treasurer, the grand secretary,past grandmaster Billings,
certain members of the financecommittee, certain members of
the jurisprudence committee.
While the grandmaster hasabsolute authority to request a
special investigation, thequestion arises was this a good
use of the resources?
Because the finding of thechairman was there was no

(26:51):
wrongdoing by anyone.

Speaker 1 (26:53):
Wow.

Speaker 2 (26:54):
So get this.
One month later passes and hegets notification the day before
they're gonna read this thatthey found no wrongdoing and
therefore removes the chairmanof finance before he can read
the report.
To the crack Yikes.
Remove the guy who'd foundnothing, who he hired to find
something.
So that happens in April.

Speaker 1 (27:15):
So this is Banana Republic Masonry style man.

Speaker 2 (27:19):
Wow, it's crazy.
And then they receive reportsthat charges were filed against
past grandmaster Billings at hislodge and they're still trying
to get any kind of document ofwhat those charges are because
they don't know.

Speaker 1 (27:37):
So who this grand master is just gonna keep going
till he he gets somebody, stopshim or he finds something that
actually sticks and you can makeit all go away yeah remember
you cannot talk about this.

Speaker 2 (27:47):
Oh yeah, that's right , right about it.
You cannot do anything oryou'll be suspended.
You won't be a Mason.
So everybody has to stay realquiet until January of 2024.

Speaker 1 (27:56):
Oh, oh, the Grand Lodge session comes, and that's
when it's own.

Speaker 2 (28:00):
Yeah, so everybody's trying to call for a special
session, but they have to tread.

Speaker 1 (28:05):
Do they allow Visitors from Florida at that
Grand Lodge communication?

Speaker 2 (28:09):
I'm wondering well, they record it oh so we can at
least watch it.

Speaker 1 (28:13):
I want to go.

Speaker 2 (28:14):
Yeah, this is all happening in real time this year
in the state of Texas.
Wow and I only found outbecause I'm a member of the
Texas Freemasonry Facebook groupand I could see it was blowing
up with people.

Speaker 1 (28:26):
Sure, yeah, this is a big issue.
Oh my, they need to settle this.
This needs to get settled.

Speaker 2 (28:31):
That's right.
It's crazy because they have tobe careful what they say in
Lodge and right.
You can be targeted from thesepeople and there are spies
everywhere, I'm sure people areleaving Freemasonry in Texas.

Speaker 1 (28:44):
I.
You know what.
I'm joined for this.
I didn't join for this either.

Speaker 2 (28:47):
I'm not gonna be a Mason under these conditions,
and this isn't what Freemasonryis about and I don't want to
participate in it and thenchoosing to walk away from
Freemasonry now We've said thisbefore and we've said it over
and over again the old guard isnot gonna go away Quietly.

Speaker 1 (29:03):
It just happened even down, even in our lodge, when
we first, when you first started, when I first came, there was a
little bit of upheaval.
Some new people were coming inand some of the some folks that
Weren't happy about it.
Now those folks have most ofthose folks have have come to
appreciate, appreciate what hashappened actually in our lodge

(29:24):
the younger, some younger bloodcoming in and some new faces and
some new ideas, which areactually old ideas.
It's called Masonry, going backto the found, you know the, the
founding of our, of our craft,but it just, it's just there's
going, there's upheaval when theold guard won't give up, when

(29:45):
they're so entrenched.
Did you see that room?
If you see, if you go, if yougo to that video and see that
room, it looks like the halls ofcongress man oh, it's really
they got to have some money overthere, man.
They got to have some big, bigmoney flowing.
It's a big state, you know.
There are there's probablytwice as many masons in Texas as
there is in Florida, so there'sprobably a lot of money flowing

(30:07):
there, a lot of influence andpower and a lot of folks that
have been sitting in seats for along, long, long, long time.
And that is that is changing.
I see in in everywhere, as, asour country goes through what
it's going through, all theinstitutions Are being shaken
upside down, you know, and thatwhich, that which is not secured

(30:29):
, will not stand, and I don'tsee how this stuff stands.
If there are some passionateyoung masons in Texas, they,
they will get this done.

Speaker 2 (30:40):
They will get it turned over.
I think that's where the stemsfrom.
I think the person is known tobe someone who uses social media
and new, new forms of talkingright and doing things and was
getting Major traction rightright and the old guard is like
no, no, this is my house.

Speaker 1 (30:56):
This is my house, this is my masonry see, that's
the thing.

Speaker 2 (30:59):
How did you get that far?
And you still haven't learned.
Nothing belongs to us.
Nothing belongs, we're justanother brick in the wall of
masonry.

Speaker 1 (31:07):
How does a?

Speaker 2 (31:07):
grandmaster not realize that?

Speaker 1 (31:09):
Brotherly love and affection right we need in our
own lodge.

Speaker 2 (31:13):
You see guys who are like if I leave, it's all
burning down.
You can't like yeah.
In two days we'll figure it out.

Speaker 1 (31:20):
We'll figure it out.

Speaker 2 (31:20):
That's right yeah anyone can be gone and and
masonry will survive.
That's the beauty of it.

Speaker 1 (31:25):
That's the point, you know.
I think we talked about it.
Where were we last night?
We were in lodge.

Speaker 2 (31:31):
Oh, the cataclysm workshop cataclysm workshop.

Speaker 1 (31:34):
I think anybody listening out there who hasn't
put together a cataclysmInstructors workshop please do
so.
It was very informative.

Speaker 2 (31:43):
Honestly, as a cataclysm instructor for years,
I got some little helpful tipsfrom there right, Definitely
gonna implement yeah you know,you always think your way's the
right way, because it worksright yeah, right yeah.
You hear other guys, You'relike oh wow, oh wow.

Speaker 1 (31:56):
I never thought of that right, yeah, well, and
that's the beauty of it.
You know, that's the fellowshipwhen we come to end, and hats
off to Most worship, I meanright honorable right.
Honorable right.
Honorable Justin broom, our ourdistrict instructor.

Speaker 2 (32:11):
And honestly, this was wishfulful Tim Ferdon's, I
think, brainchild.

Speaker 1 (32:14):
It was, it absolutely was.
And then he got called awaywith a family emergency yeah, so
he couldn't make it, and, ofcourse, justin broom did a great
right honorable stepped up andhe I.
What I appreciate about is heSet it up as an open forum.
Yeah, so like a lot what we dowhen we do our stuff, you know,
it was an open forum whereeverybody can just kind of share
, you know, ask their questionsand then everybody can kind of

(32:38):
give their input.

Speaker 2 (32:40):
Yeah, he started by saying what works for him, what
he does, and then it kind ofopened up.
Yeah people started talkingabout the things we do.
And then, great part, myfavorite part, and this is why I
love Mario Patrick Charles.
They're trying to wrap it upand he's like excuse me, I heard
all the great stuff.
I need to know what do you findpeople are doing wrong?

Speaker 1 (33:00):
Tell me that, that I don't want to know the 10 things
that are wrong.

Speaker 2 (33:04):
It's good, that's a good point.
Yeah right you're talking about, yeah, rainbows and sunshine,
but I ain't all rainbows andsunshine right times you can go
really wrong as a catechisminstructor right, Right yeah
boom, there goes like a bunch ofgood discussion about what not
to do, and that was reallyhelpful, I think, for people
that aren't catechisminstructors, to hear right so

(33:25):
they don't make those mistakes.
They can be on the lookout forthat behavior.
Very, very good stuff.
We highly recommend you do that.
We did it Well.
This is the second one in ourdistrict that's been done this
year.
Yeah and we saw some.
We had a guy who's a 56 56 year, mason Ray Ortt told stories.

Speaker 1 (33:43):
Luke Kelly.
Luke Kelly Sorry, yeah, we'refull.

Speaker 2 (33:45):
Luke Kelly, he was telling stories about Kelly
meeting guys at 11 o'clock atnight, 9 o'clock at night at
Perkins at Perkins, and he'sbeen doing this for almost 60
years.

Speaker 1 (33:56):
Yeah, man.

Speaker 2 (33:57):
That's a lot of I mean.
I'm listening intently whenhe's talking.

Speaker 1 (34:00):
He's the kind of guy he's got that infectious smile
man when he cracks a joke andthat smile you just like, you
just love the guy man.
He's just, he's an elderstatesman in our local masonry
man and and he's he's a treasureand absolutely treasure
Southern boy too.

Speaker 2 (34:15):
He's got all the best euphemisms for any situation
You're like.
Well, that's like if you take adog or shit in my shoe, you
know, and it's the same thing.
He's good.
He's got one for everysituation he does.

Speaker 1 (34:27):
That's right, that's right, and, and, and, like I
said, he's the value of Havingthat man Desire to be.
If you are lucky enough for himto be your catechism instructor
, you are, you're blessed, yeah,because the man is really
dedicated to it.
You know, and you will learn,because he'll push you to do it
the right way, which for me, itour catechism instruction,

(34:50):
especially in EA, was wasdifficult.
I know I'm always, constantlywhining about it, but it was
tough.
But the lodge was going throughsome transitions.
We were just coming out of the,the Cervaisa sickness and all
that stuff.

Speaker 2 (35:01):
So Cervaisa and so we , you know yeah, it was a tough
time.
It was a tough time for all ofus.
Had a big class.
Yeah, your instructor wasoverworked.

Speaker 1 (35:12):
He was definitely overworked and it was.
You know, it was kind of a youknow you had no mentoring no
mentors, like, look, we needinstructors, so we need to just
push you guys through.

Speaker 2 (35:22):
I'm like oh, even transition.
Okay, two masters of the lodge,because you took so long.

Speaker 1 (35:27):
Yeah, that's right.
That's right, yeah, so anyway,that was a great time.
I really enjoyed it.
I don't know how we rabbit holdthat one into an entire
conversation, but that's what wedo.

Speaker 2 (35:35):
You asked me something and they just went off
.
Yeah, but I think the importantpart of that situation is Every
, probably every lodge,definitely every district, has a
Luke Ellie.
Yeah, that's right I have a 56year mason.
Absolutely in your areaProbably many of them, and if
you're one of those brothers,they need you you have a wealth

(35:58):
of history.
Yeah, that's right knowledgethat you can bring to every
meeting.
That happens and the young guysneed you.
Yeah they don't, otherwisethey're gonna make the same
mistakes you made and help themout like don't let them do that.

Speaker 1 (36:11):
That's right.

Speaker 2 (36:11):
Tell them what worked and what didn't work.

Speaker 1 (36:13):
Yeah, that's what show up, and and I, I like you
know, that's what he said.
He said, well, I'd just be athome, you know, but I, I come
out and do this, you know,because, because I've been in it
so long, I have, I still have alot to share.
Well, how many guys are sittingat home, you know, paying their
dues?
You're paying your dues and werespect you because you've

(36:35):
you've, you've, you've gone thedistance.
Man, come back to Lodge, getinvolved in catechism,
instruction, and, and, andyou'll be better for it.

Speaker 2 (36:44):
I think I see what's going on with these guys and I
used to not understand it and belike we're cool, why don't you
want to be around us?
Well, I now see like you spenda large portion of your life
when you're an officer Focusedand dedicated on the Lodge, its
needs, and you're working reallyclosely with this group of guys
and and eventually you all workthrough the system and become

(37:06):
past masters.
Right and if you step away for ayear or two years.
When you come back, that lineis full of people you don't know
right right you feel like analien in your own house, like
these guys don't know me, theydon't respect me, they don't.
I bet there's probably a lot ofpeople out there who don't come
because they feel like my timepass.
This is a different group right, I don't want to get in their

(37:27):
way.
They don't respect me or trustme.
I'm not gonna be Welcome like Ifeel like I should, so I'm just
not gonna bother right but man,if you're a member of a lodger,
an officer, you better damnwell make those guys feel
welcome and needed.

Speaker 1 (37:42):
Yeah, that's right, you need him, especially if
they're, you know, a past masterand they come back into the
lodge.
It's important to recognize andit's really important to
recognize the Accomplishments ofthe people that are in the
sidelines Whenever they're there, because you don't, you know,
if you can.
It's not easy, but yeah, youwant to.
You definitely want to try torecognize them and get them back

(38:03):
Involved in lodge man, becausewe like, like we say all the
time, our lodge has 335 payingmembers, for I mean something
like something like 300, almost350 actually, but you know on a
good night.

Speaker 2 (38:18):
We got 50 men in there.

Speaker 1 (38:19):
It's on a really good night, on a really good night
we got 50 men in there.
So what's happening is there isa wealth of masonic education
and and experience sitting athome watching Netflix, man, and
I get it.
I'm not.
I'm not trying to put you downor anything Like that, brother.
I certainly would never do that.
But I'm telling you, I'mencouraging you, to Consider

(38:42):
coming back down and gettinginvolved and see what happens.
The craft would be better forit and I know you would
absolutely enjoy it.

Speaker 2 (38:50):
So that's my hobby horse yes, it's a good point.

Speaker 1 (38:53):
It's a good point, all right.

Speaker 2 (38:54):
So, texas, get yourself together, man, come on
hey, come on Texas if you gotany information and you're not
afraid of speaking about thesituation, contact Fred.
Yes, on the level of Fred andChris, calm because we will have
you on the show.
We're really curious to followthe story and see where it goes.

Speaker 1 (39:09):
Yeah, and we.
If you wanted to be anonymousand speak to us Anonymously, we
could do that too, because Ithink that would be really cool.

Speaker 2 (39:16):
I want to get a Darth Vader voice modulator.

Speaker 1 (39:18):
We'll get a Darth Vader voice modulator.

Speaker 2 (39:20):
You're gonna go on morsy.

Speaker 1 (39:22):
Yes, let's do that.
Oh, that would be good, thatwould be so.

Speaker 2 (39:28):
Seriously, though, we do want to talk about this we
do, we don't know we're heretrying to follow it from out of
state and right it seems quiteinteresting.
The Freemasonry at large.
Well, this is a lesson thatprobably all masons and all
jurisdictions want to know about, right?

Speaker 1 (39:43):
and the tendency might be.
Well, we need to keep this.
You know, we don't want this toget out.
We don't want to give Masonry ablack eye.
Brother, it's too late.
The black eye has been issuedand now it's time for all of us
to openly and honestly talkabout it, because you know, all
right, so that's Texas and thisis Florida.
Well, it's still Masonry.

Speaker 2 (40:01):
Yeah, it's still Masonry.

Speaker 1 (40:02):
We are a global fraternity and what impacts
Texas will impact Florida,wisconsin, new Mexico, wherever
you are, britain, the VirginIslands we get, we get.
We get lodges from all over theworld Contacting us, so it
affects us all and it's like ifthey're making mistakes.

Speaker 2 (40:22):
It's good for us to be able to learn from those
mistakes without having to makethem ourselves.

Speaker 1 (40:27):
That's right.
That's right, you know, becausewe should be different.
If you look in the halls ofCongress, if you, if you talk to
those people, they never makeany mistakes, they never admit
anything, they never do anythingwrong.
It's always you know, it'salways somebody else's fault or
it's always you know.
Just the way we do things inMasonry should be different.
We got some problems here andlet's all be brotherly and

(40:50):
honest and move forward so thatwe can be better, as you know,
as a craft, as a fraternity, andimpact this hurting country
with, you know, with brotherly,affection, relief and truth.
I read that somewhere.
I don't know where I read thatfrom.

Speaker 2 (41:05):
I'm Repeatedly in Masonic stuff.

Speaker 1 (41:08):
Yeah, that's right.
That's right, speaking ofreading Masonic stuff.

Speaker 2 (41:12):
We'll get to the show .

Speaker 1 (41:13):
We'll get to the show 41 minutes in, so it's all good
.
So we were doing the etiquettebook and I know I'm almost
through it in my my mind andheart.
I don't want to go any further,but let's do emblems and
symbols.
Oh okay, it's quite extensiveand there's some big words in

(41:35):
there.

Speaker 2 (41:36):
So I'll do my best.
If they define those likewhat's the difference between an
emblem and a symbol?

Speaker 1 (41:41):
Yeah, I'm not sure I'm gonna read a cold and and
let's see, let's see whathappens.
Just so everyone knows, I am inGrand Lodge GL 208, reprinted
in 2010, the Masonic etiquettelodge of a lodge system of
Masonic education etiquette book.
It's the yellow book that youreceive when you became an

(42:02):
entered apprentice, so thatmeans you're gonna have to go
somewhere in your closet and digit out because it's buried deep
.
So go get it and get it out andgive it a read, or you can just
go on the Grand Lodge.

Speaker 2 (42:13):
You can go on the Grand Lodge website and download
it.

Speaker 1 (42:16):
None of this is coded or encrypted in any way.
It is all available to thewhole world to see emblems and
symbols.

Speaker 2 (42:26):
I did a search real quick of what's a term between
an emblem versus a symbol.

Speaker 1 (42:30):
Yeah, what is a difference?

Speaker 2 (42:31):
a symbol is a glyph or character that stands as a
concrete representation of anobject, idea, relationship.
And Emblem is a more abstractrepresentation, either of an
individual like a king, a groupof individuals Like Freemasons,
or an idea, like a moral truth.
Oh, okay a symbols, like youknow, oh, a beehive.

Speaker 1 (42:54):
Oh, it's a symbol, symbol, get it.

Speaker 2 (42:58):
An emblem is more of like our square, with the lines.
It represents the whole.
Yeah, I see Something different.

Speaker 1 (43:08):
Emblems and symbols on page six, While the design
and disposition of the emblems,symbols and other lodgeroom
apportences Apportences.

Speaker 2 (43:21):
That's a tough one.

Speaker 1 (43:22):
Necessary to the adequate exemplification of the
degrees does not in any strictsense belong to Masonic
etiquette.
The underlying principle isnevertheless the same.
That's a tough paragraph, butlet's just keep going.
The symbolic system of thecraft is what that term

(43:44):
indicates A system which meansthat each part or detail belongs
to a whole, and if any one isomitted or misused it affects
the whole.
And the symbolic system itselfis absolutely essential to
Freemasonry.
It is the craft's one method ofteaching its principles to its

(44:05):
members.
Without that method it is dumb,meaning unable to speak.
Without that method it isunable to speak, and if that
method is manipulated itsteaching suffers.
For these reasons it is of theutmost importance that a lodge
takes great pains to see thatthe emblems and symbols are of a

(44:26):
correct design, are well caredfor and are placed in the
correct positions.
So I know that our previousdistrict instructor, doug Dobbs.

Speaker 2 (44:41):
Shout out to Doug the right honorable Worshipful
Master Doug Dobbs right,honorable Worshipful Master Doug
Dobbs.

Speaker 1 (44:51):
he noted that in our lodge, behind where the American
flag stands is one of thesymbols or I guess that would be
an emblem of one of theappended bodies, and he said
that's inappropriate.
So according to Etiquette,according to Lodge Etiquette,

(45:11):
you can't have any of theemblems or symbols behind where
the American flag stands.
So for us, our American flagsits at the edge, the outer edge
of the east, instead of againstthe wall, in other words.
So if you're going to do that,you can't have anything behind
it, emblem or symbol.

(45:32):
Wise, that's just an example ofwhat they're talking about here
.

Speaker 2 (45:35):
So the flag should be its own, without anything
taking away from the honor of it, that is right, that is correct
, and as far as I know, thatthing's still there.
Anyways, we need to work onthat for now.
Yeah, yeah, sorry.

Speaker 1 (45:49):
Doug.
So you know our symbols, ouremblems and all of that stuff is
so misunderstood in the culture.
People look at our stuff, youknow, and Hell it's
misunderstood by Mason.
sometimes it's misunderstood byMason's as well, sometimes.
That's right.
That's right.
Let me go on to the nextparagraph.

(46:09):
The altar should be in thecenter of the room.
It's side square with the sidesof the room.
The three great lights shouldbe placed at the center of the
altar and should never rest ontop of the Holy Bible when it is
closed.
The square and compasses shouldbe silver and in good working
order.
The great pillars should be ofadequate height and correct

(46:32):
design and placed one on eachside of the inner door.
If the lodge building allowsthe pillar bearing the celestial
globe to stand at thecandidates right as he enters,
we got ours backwards.

Speaker 2 (46:48):
You know what we also did a whole year not following
this etiquette book.
You're right, maybe two years,I think we did it Right Because
we had a worship master fromPuerto Rico worship Stephen
Garcia Maratis.

Speaker 1 (47:02):
Shout out.

Speaker 2 (47:03):
Great, great, Mason yeah and a good man.
Yeah, we should have him on theshow.

Speaker 1 (47:07):
We should, we absolutely should.
He's one of those quiet leaders.
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (47:11):
You got to ask him if you want to know what he's
thinking.

Speaker 1 (47:13):
But when you ask him, be prepared to get the actual
answer because he's veryknowledgeable From a well
thought out.
That's right, the guy ismethodical and is thinking
logical.

Speaker 2 (47:22):
Sorry for the love fest.

Speaker 1 (47:24):
We're gloating.

Speaker 2 (47:25):
He from Puerto Rico, when he became master, said in
my lodge we put those pillarsbasically in front of the senior
warden, so one near where thejunior deacon sits and one near
where the marshal sits.
I thought it was interestingand after his year, the next
year, the next master left itthere and I found when I was

(47:47):
sitting in the west it actuallyobscured my view of the craft
and I couldn't really see awhole lot.
So from that chair.
It wasn't the best, but it didlook cool and they even put like
neon lights on the bottom.

Speaker 1 (47:57):
Right, right Stand out.
I remember that.

Speaker 2 (48:00):
But according to the etiquette book, those should be
next to the inner door eitherside of the inner door, correct
we did not know that that was inthe Masonic etiquette book.

Speaker 1 (48:10):
Right.

Speaker 2 (48:11):
And we didn't do that for two years.

Speaker 1 (48:13):
Right and the celestial glow should be on the
right as you walk into the lodgefrom the outer room.

Speaker 2 (48:18):
That was another question I always had.
How do we know which side goeswhere?
Well, there you go, it tellsyou exactly.

Speaker 1 (48:24):
Huh, funny how these books are so relevant Exactly
where they should be placed.

Speaker 2 (48:28):
And it makes sense because in the lecture you're in
the fellow craft lecture you gointo detail explaining those
pillars.

Speaker 1 (48:35):
And which?

Speaker 2 (48:35):
one is where and what they represent.

Speaker 1 (48:38):
The square and compass should be silver and in
good working order.
The great pillars should be ofadequate height and correct
design and place on each side ofthe inner door.
If the lodge building allowsthe pillars bearing the
celestial globe to stand at thecandidates right as he enters,
the ashlar's, if used, should beon the master's platform or on

(48:59):
one of its steps, one at eitherside the perfect ashlar near the
southeast corner and the roughashlar toward the northeast.
We have that correct as I thinkabout it.

Speaker 2 (49:12):
So you kind of said this twice and it's been in my
mind since you said it.
Uh-oh, the square and compassesshould be silver.
Why do you think they specifythat they should be made of
silver?

Speaker 1 (49:26):
Because it's a pure metal.

Speaker 2 (49:28):
A pure metal.
Okay, that makes sense.

Speaker 1 (49:31):
It's a pure precious metal.
It's valuable and I don't know.
Why don't you tell us, brother,I don't know either.
Oh, you're looking at it up.

Speaker 2 (49:42):
I was like what the heck?
So I did research thesignificance of using silver in
rituals to see if we can get ananswer.

Speaker 1 (49:49):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (49:51):
And the historical significance is that silver was
used in religious rituals topurify and consecrate sacred
spaces.

Speaker 1 (50:00):
Oh, interesting.

Speaker 2 (50:01):
Maybe because it's a pure metal, like you said.

Speaker 1 (50:03):
Right, it is.

Speaker 2 (50:04):
It purifies and consecrates the altar and the
great book that they rest on.

Speaker 1 (50:10):
I suppose silver is a very interesting metal because
it is not only an intrinsicallyvaluable precious metal in and
of itself.
It has value just because ifyou have a silver coin that says
50 cents on it currently it'sactually worth $22.
So it has value within itself.

(50:30):
If I check the spot value, Ifollow metals I'm weird like
that but also it has anindustrial use.
So silver is also one of thebest metals for conducting
electricity and they use itquite frequently in electronics
high end electronics.
So it's an interesting metal inthat it has both of those uses.

(50:51):
It has its own intrinsic value.
In other words, the value lieswithin itself, like gold, unlike
the dollar bill, which is basedon the promises of a bunch of
grifters that are somewhere nearRichmond Virginia.
But silver and gold actuallyhave value within themselves.
So that's intrinsic of silver.
Why am I rabbit-holing silver?
And then, of course, it hasthat also that value.

(51:14):
So what I'm telling you is goout and buy some silver and put
it in your mattress right now,because it's only $22 an ounce
right now, and it's got to beworth a lot more than that in
the future.

Speaker 2 (51:26):
I'd like to actually look even deeper into the
esoteric meanings historicallyof using silver, since it is
specified here that these mostimportant tools we use must be
made of silver.

Speaker 1 (51:38):
And I don't think ours are.

Speaker 2 (51:41):
I mean, they look like silver, silver tarnishes
silver tarnishes though, andours are bright.
Is it like stainless?

Speaker 1 (51:47):
Probably some kind of stainless steel or something or
who knows what it is.

Speaker 2 (51:51):
That's very interesting.

Speaker 1 (51:53):
But if that was made of silver actual silver, those
two things it would only youknow the value of it.
It's less than an ounce, so Idon't know.
I definitely want to look intoit with you, and if ours is not
silver, I say we shouldinvestigate and correct that
situation.
We should correct that situationimmediately.
The great pillars should be ofoh wait, I already read that.

(52:15):
The ashlar's, already read that, the ashlar's, if you should be
on the master's platform or onone of the steps, one at either
side, the perfect ashlar nearthe southeast corner, the rough
ashlar near the northeast corner, obviously for obvious reasons
to the north, the darknesscoming to the light.

(52:36):
The letter G should beprominently displayed in the
east and be of tasteful design.

Speaker 2 (52:44):
So we're also a blinking neon.
Blinking neon light isn't pink.
Like pink, neon, that kind ofgoes on and off.
No but ours is actually justsomebody handmade it, I think.

Speaker 1 (52:59):
It's in the shape of a letter G Right, it's neon,
it's actual neon, with nobacking and it just hangs out of
the ceiling.

Speaker 2 (53:05):
I feel like we shouldn't put a metal, not like
a wooden box with glass, thereshould be something.

Speaker 1 (53:11):
It shouldn't be just like that because it could get
broke.
And of course it's been therefor 40 years.

Speaker 2 (53:17):
I doubt it's been there long enough, but we could
do better job of like it says itshould be in good taste, and
ours is.
I mean I guess it's just theletter G hanging from the
ceiling.
That's neon, but right.
I mean in one area we couldimprove.

Speaker 1 (53:29):
I can tell you right now that there's a transformer
up there that produces a ton ofelectricity, Because to charge
neon you need somethingridiculous like 100,000 watts.

Speaker 2 (53:43):
You can hear the buzz .
It's like rolling over my head,yeah.

Speaker 1 (53:47):
And they're not cheap .
That stuff's not cheap, sowhoever put that up there spent
some money on it.
I'm sure it's been there a long, long time.

Speaker 2 (53:53):
Oh yeah, and it's cool.
That's what I'm saying.
We shouldn't remove it, weshould just add to it.

Speaker 1 (53:57):
Right.

Speaker 2 (53:58):
Give it a little proper, like you know, fluff to
make it look a little moreextravagant.

Speaker 1 (54:02):
Right, right.
The Holy Bible should behandled with care and reverence,
and should any of its pagesbecome soiled or torn, they
should be cleaned or replaced.
Jules, regalia, rods and apronsshould be kept in good order,
never suffered to grow shabby orhandled carelessly in a manner
showing neglect.

Speaker 2 (54:21):
Excuse me, sir.
Sir, my rod is not shabby.

Speaker 1 (54:26):
Your rod is shabby sir, Excuse me sir.

Speaker 2 (54:30):
Point of order.
Good day, sir.
Lightly withered rod, it is byno means shabby.

Speaker 1 (54:37):
Our brothers in England right now are like these
yeah, they're Americans, yankswhy?
Bother.
So stupid these yanks.
Why bother with them?
They're shabby.

Speaker 2 (54:47):
Yes, we are right, proper lancers.

Speaker 1 (54:50):
No individual who has private theories concerning the
emblems and symbols should bepermitted to violate the
requirements, should bepermitted to violate the
requirements and usages of thecraft.
Free masonry is no man'sprivate property.
I'm looking at you, texas.
It lies with no man to imposehis private notions upon

(55:18):
anything pertaining to theritual and, by the same token,
it is the height of improprietyfor a lodge to permit any
member's name to be engravedupon the ashlares, embroidered
or painted on the dressings ofthe altar, carved or embossed
upon the holy Bible or otherwisedisplayed in or on anything

(55:40):
belonging to the ritual and itsexemplification Right.

Speaker 2 (55:45):
So that's interesting .
You shouldn't come in talkingor teaching about how the silver
square encompasses was used byvampire hunters to kill evil
souls Like.
No, that's not what it's for.

Speaker 1 (55:57):
That's not what it's for.
Stop saying that I'm not sayingyou do.

Speaker 2 (56:00):
But that's an example of probably what they're
talking about.

Speaker 1 (56:03):
Well, I think we had a candidate Come in once and the
very he was, he was obviouslyhaving some some issues.

Speaker 2 (56:11):
I mean oh, I know you're talking right and and he
stood all of a sudden.

Speaker 1 (56:14):
He was over at the altar and he was talking about
how this is where Some, some Godthis and he was going on and on
about it.
It was getting really weird,yeah, and we were supposed to
petition on him that night andwe we decided not to.
We decided to pass on himbecause of that.
Yes because he was really likehe was there for all the wrong
reasons.

Speaker 2 (56:35):
Yes, you know, and it was just like.
It was just like dude, fromwhat we could tell it, what it
didn't look like a goodsituation.
I knew he was muttering tohimself over there.
Yeah and no one was around, butloud enough for people to hear
that it was not normal things.
He was muttering, right, yeahand and again.

Speaker 1 (56:51):
What he bought into was all of the strange lies
about us that are out there.
You know that we're some sortof devil worshipping cult and
all this stuff, and this iswhere the the God of this does,
is God of that.
Blah, blah, blah.
It's like no man.
This is where good men helpeach other to become better men.
That's that's what it's allabout, and that's what masonry

(57:11):
is.
That's what we're doing inthere in secret.
If you, if you must know, we'reworking on being better men.
Okay, okay, karen.

Speaker 2 (57:20):
Well that I was supposed to sign his petition
and I know, I know multiplepeople said you need to go see
what's happening.

Speaker 1 (57:27):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (57:28):
I checked it out and I did not sign his petition
because of what I witnessedright and that's what you do as
a man, you have to do that, yougot to protect the lodge and
protect the east yep theWestgate, whatever you want to
call it.

Speaker 1 (57:39):
the Westgate must be protected, yeah strongly guarded
.

Speaker 2 (57:41):
It's our job.
So, here the first guy.
Don't even you see something'swrong and that's only happened
to me like a handful of timesout of all the guys I've talked
to.
There was another guy who wastalking about allister Crowley
and sex magic and I was like Ididn't know what that was at the
time.
But I did research it after andI said I can't recommend this
guy.

Speaker 1 (58:01):
This is a good situation if this is what he's
holding to is his belief system.
Yeah, no, it's just it, just itisn't.
Yeah, I mean, I don't know.
There's just so much talkanymore about all this kind of
stuff and it goes on and on andon and on.
It never really changes, though.
You know it's.
I don't know what stuff?
The whole.

(58:22):
You know we're not being honestabout who we all that stuff you
know, and it's just like it.

Speaker 2 (58:29):
That's never gonna change.

Speaker 1 (58:31):
No, it's not and I used to say, and I still kind of
say, that I kind of dig it, Ikind of like being able to pull
people's chain.
With regard to it, you know alittle bit, you know what I mean
.
It's like I got a, I have anniece who really thinks that you
know, masonry is you know thismajor global cult and stuff, and
I just, I like, I like pullingher chain.

Speaker 2 (58:52):
I gotta be honest, I do enjoy it a little bit you
know I've been enjoying Changingpeople's minds through my own
actions and I've seen thathappen, that's the only way
you're gonna do it.
Let's be honest.
It's true, you can't reasonyour way into somebody changing
somebody's opinion.
You can't like factually baseanything that's gonna change
their position Position.
All you can do is show themright.

(59:14):
And if you show them that mightactually change their position.

Speaker 1 (59:17):
It's true.

Speaker 2 (59:18):
My family, as I've said many times, is anti-masonry
right big time like big time,and it it comes from the church.

Speaker 1 (59:25):
Right, somehow Eastern Orthodox?
Yes, they're from Ukraine, yep.

Speaker 2 (59:29):
Which I always found weird, because their fathers in
the Soviet Union they werecommunists.
Like how did you become aChristian in that environment?

Speaker 1 (59:35):
Because the Eastern Orthodox Church was there before
communism.
It was there for a thousandyears.

Speaker 2 (59:41):
Well, that would do it, yeah, but now you know,
getting out of that oppressionand coming to America.
They became very zealous.
Yeah, with it and being able topractice openly and so I think,
that's why it was so.
You know it wasn't.
It came from that place of like.
When you take shoes from a kid,they're gonna grow up to be a
shoe collector.

Speaker 1 (01:00:01):
That's how it goes Right, you're right.

Speaker 2 (01:00:03):
Yeah, you can't have worse than anything, and so
they're very anti-masonry.
And through my own actions, youknow the way I behave, the
things they've seen me do mywife makes sure to show them to
like right so they see what'shappening like I Think it was
earlier this year one of thedemo lay kids, his bike got
wrecked and the dad, the chapterdad, told me about it and he's

(01:00:25):
like maybe we could do somethingbut there wasn't time.
So I actually saw the bike hehad in a picture, found the
exact bike on Walmart, orderedit, shipped to his house and he
was shocked and surprised right,he was like oh my god, I can't
believe this.
And the chapter dad did, youknow, did a surprise reveal on
video and put it on Facebook andI didn't like that.

(01:00:45):
That wasn't why that was done,but my wife saw it, just
randomly.
I never told her and she wascrying.
She was like what is this?
And I'm like this is just whatwe do.

Speaker 1 (01:00:55):
This is every day life for me.

Speaker 2 (01:00:56):
I didn't think it was a big deal, and so she shares
that with her family.
So now, whenever her familytravel anywhere, they always
send me pictures of lodges.
They see I'm like, ah, you're,you're thinking about it.
Now right, right and you thinkit's fun and cool, like they've
changed their viewpoint on itbecause I'm in their life and
they see and they see the realthing.

Speaker 1 (01:01:15):
It ain't evil right.

Speaker 2 (01:01:17):
And I'm pretty high up at this point.
There's only maybe one degree Ihaven't received in all of
Freemasonry and I Highly doubtthey reserve the lizard people
baby eating until you're 90 togive you that information.

Speaker 1 (01:01:30):
So come on, let's get real right.

Speaker 2 (01:01:32):
It's part of Freemasonry.

Speaker 1 (01:01:34):
Yeah, that's right stuff and and it's it's good to
always remember that you know,you the way we carry ourselves
and behave.
Back to my intro.
The way we behave in front ofothers, it matters and for me
I'm I'm Excuseless.
I mean, as a Christian and amace who happens to be a mason,
I have absolutely no excuse Tobehave badly in public.

(01:01:58):
I should be aware of thesethings constantly.
Back to my my opening.
It's a struggle we're all gonnafight.
Nobody does it perfectly.

Speaker 2 (01:02:07):
I'm talking about that.
It doesn't matter how old youget, you're still a human being,
you're still gonna.

Speaker 1 (01:02:11):
We're all still gonna struggle.
It's the reason why Masonrydoes what it does.
I mean it's it.
It helps men To remember, tokeep their passions in due
bounds.
That's what Masonry does.
It teaches men.
It's not a religion.
We, we, we don't promote anyone religion at all, but we, we

(01:02:34):
promote men Keeping theirpassions in due bounds for the
purpose of being a blessing anda benefit to themselves, their
families, their community andthe craft as a whole.
You know, that's, that's whatit is.
It's.
It's that's why GeorgeWashington said that free
masonry is indispensable in the,in the lives of young men.

(01:02:55):
Every, in other words, what hemeant was he, what he meant was
every young man should gothrough the masonic degrees.
Because it's indispensable fora young man to learn how to keep
his passions in due bounds sothey don't get in the way of his
life, so that he can have asuccessful life and be a benefit

(01:03:16):
to the world around him.
And that's what Masonrypromotes a hundred percent.
Yeah, that's right.

Speaker 2 (01:03:21):
This is something that came out last night and
there was some conversationabout hey, Because we were all
talking about catechisminstructors right.
It's a lot of work to do thatand it takes up to six months.

Speaker 1 (01:03:33):
I say up to right around six months, around six
months could take up to years.

Speaker 2 (01:03:37):
But Uh, somebody I believe it was brother Wade
Bacchens who's a very like,emotionally in touch guy.
Yeah, hey wait, shouldn't we beabout brotherhood, like, how
can we do that?
And Right worship will buryheart, said.
Here's the thing it's.
It is a lot of work to do thisstuff and maybe they didn't sign
up to do that work.
But once you learn the threeCatechisms and you've memorized

(01:04:02):
them now, free masonry is insideof you and you'd never set foot
in another lodge the rest ofyour life.
But you're gonna carry that freemasonry with you everywhere you
go.
For the rest of your life.
Yeah cuz you took the time tomemorize it and think about it
and it became part of it was youwere made a mason in your heart
.
We agree, but that doesn't meanyou perfected the craft.

(01:04:24):
But the act of doing the workof memorizing the catechism does
put it inside of you.
So in my mind, when he saidthat, I was reflecting on that
and I thought, okay, that's sixmonths of work you did in free
masonry and now it's inside ofyou.
If you believe wishful right,wishful heart which I do Now
imagine if you spent 50 yearsdoing that- right, yeah.

(01:04:45):
Where are you gonna be as a manif you did work your whole life
Instead of just for six months?
Right how much further in touchwith your Creator will you be,
how better of a brother will yoube, of a man, and and that's
something that really stuck outto me because now, personally,
my journey as an officer whichis what I set out to do was to

(01:05:07):
become the master of the lodgesome day.
The day came and it's likewhere do you go from here?
Well, you just keep doing thework, whatever comes your way
you do the work right and that'show you keep becoming a better
person and like, as you alwayssay, of service to the master.

Speaker 1 (01:05:23):
Yeah, that's right.
That we would be of of service,that we would be a value to the
kingdom, that that we would be,yeah, acceptable and of service
, of useful to the master.
That's it.
That's the word.
I was the master.
Useful to the master, that'sright man, what a great example.

Speaker 2 (01:05:40):
I mean I get calls from all year long from people
like right wishful-heart sayinghow's it going, how's it?

Speaker 1 (01:05:48):
going right thing.
Okay, yeah, everything you need, can I?

Speaker 2 (01:05:50):
help you anyway.
You know how invaluable that isto a guy that doesn't know what
the hell he's doing to havesomeone of authority.
We need to say, hey, can I helpyou, is everything okay?

Speaker 1 (01:05:59):
That's huge.
You're a rich man, right whenyou have that, because the as
men, that's that's somethingthat we need.
That's the way we were.
We were created that way to bein communion With other men.
Because, you know, it's likeit's.
It's like I said, only a mancan teach a boy to be a man.
You know, boys don't learn tobe men from women.

(01:06:20):
It's really tough.
You even you have that story inyour own life about Star Trek.
Yeah, I mean the men of StarTrek, where your example you
know in in your life and it'sit's true, and when you have
Someone like right WorshfulHeart, giving you a call to
check in with you to make sureyou're okay.
You're a rich man, you're arich man and where are you gonna
get that in this world?
I tell you, that type ofbrother, ship, brotherhood and

(01:06:44):
fellowship is essential and.
I searched for it and searchedfor it.
I did not find it where I waslooking for it.
I am, I am believing that I amgonna take what I learned in
Masonry and bring it back to the, the institution that I
couldn't find it at, and andcreate that there.
But here in Masonry I havebrothers who have my best

(01:07:07):
interest at heart.
They they won't let me lie tomyself or BS myself, which I'm
very good at, obviously, butthey care about me enough to
tell me the stuff that's thehard stuff, and and I rely on
them and I would do the same forthem.
And I'm thinking about brotherSean out there, who just has a
heart man brother Sean.

(01:07:27):
Cooney, sean Cooney.
Shout out to Sean Cooney.
I'm just, I'm thinking aboutyou, brother.

Speaker 2 (01:07:31):
He's all heart.

Speaker 1 (01:07:32):
He's all heart man because, we were.
We were on a thread and therewas just a tough, some a tough
situation.
It was a text thread andeverybody's talking facts, facts
, facts, and all the thread wasabout facts.
I'm not gonna give you anyinformation about what the text
thread was, but facts, facts,facts.
And then, all of a sudden heart.
Yeah, all of a sudden this oneword about a no man, no heart,

(01:07:55):
heart.
Yeah, this, this doesn't feelright.
Heart and and and all of asudden the conversation just
just changed right and we allwent to a different place, and
and that was that was huge thatour brother, our brother brought
that.
I think it benefited me, it gotme to change my thinking and it
opened up my mind to saysomething that really made sense

(01:08:16):
to me and and that's that's,that's the brotherhood man.

Speaker 2 (01:08:21):
That's why I'm so excited for the future of our
lodge.
Yes we are.
I mean, my mission this yearwas to try to become more like
real masons right.
And I feel like that torch hasbeen picked up so hard right
guys are gonna carry it so muchfurther than I could have ever
imagined.

Speaker 1 (01:08:38):
That's right.

Speaker 2 (01:08:39):
I'm so excited for the future.
Yeah, I agree, and that's whatculture is like this is what
we've been saying.
You have to foster that culturein your lodge.
We were caught up and I think Iwas on that text thread.
You were fax fax fax.
Like I said fax, fax, fax, faxheart like it takes somebody to
take a step back and say, hey,wait a second wait yep, and

(01:08:59):
Imagine if three guys are sayingthat instead of one.
Like it.
Eventually we stop wasting timeon the nonsense and focus on
what's important all the time.
That's right.

Speaker 1 (01:09:09):
Yeah, and it.
That's not to say that thefacts don't matter.
We have to know, mason, you gotto know it.
You got to know what it is andyou got to know why it is.
And you know, you got to do thework.
We were at a meeting last night.
It was all about doing the work.
I get that, but what we can'tdo is let that obscure us from
the goal, and the goal isbrotherly love and affection and

(01:09:29):
that's what matters.
And some brothers Don't know howto how to articulate what's
going on in their lives and theand turmoil, inner turmoil, and
it comes out in all kinds of badways.
But if he's a brother, you knowit doesn't matter.
At the end of the day, we gotto keep bringing the brother
back to the heart, back to theheart, back to the heart.

(01:09:49):
We're here because we love eachother enough to tell each other
the truth and hold each otheraccountable and we're just not
gonna let you go, man.
We're not gonna let you go.
If you go, we go, man.

Speaker 2 (01:09:59):
That's just the way it is.
I think this is something thatis kind of profound and I think
about from time to time, becauseI've learned the lectures and
this is why doing the work canbenefit you.

Speaker 1 (01:10:10):
Yeah, that's right.

Speaker 2 (01:10:11):
I'm reminded often, especially in the master Mason
lecture when I do it and we haveone coming up Saturday.
I've been looking at it andthat's what's got my head
spinning with this idea that thesystem of free masonry predates
written Records of man.
We use symbols.
Correct symbols were taught toteach before people could read,

(01:10:33):
before Languages were translated.
Right symbols would beunderstood by everybody right.
And you now, as a Mason, are ajust a link in a chain of men
that has existed from timeimmemorial.
Literally Before recordings ofmen were put to paper, things
were happening.

(01:10:53):
Masonry, allegedly, was part ofsome of that that's correct, and
now you are and your job as alink in the chain is to transmit
as Unimpaired as possible theideas that you got in the
beginning to the next generation.
That's your job to keep freemasonry alive.
And if you're not Keeping freemasonry alive, that means you're

(01:11:16):
changing it.
That means the next generationis a watered-down version that
they're not going to be right aspure, as good as the last
generation Yep, you're failingyour one job, which is to
transmit unimpaired the lessonsof free masonry.

Speaker 1 (01:11:30):
Yeah and the way you transmit it isn't by catechism
in books, it's by actions,that's right, you teach people,
yeah, you show them, you showthem and and you show them the
right way to do it.
Like brother dobs says, do doFlorida work, not lodge work in
Florida.

Speaker 2 (01:11:46):
That's the rules, so you should Transmit unimpaired
the rules of the direction.

Speaker 1 (01:11:50):
You live it to the next generation, so they can
carry it to the next one.
Sure man.

Speaker 2 (01:11:54):
I do this all the time.
I disagree with many thingsthat are part of Florida
Tradition and law personallyyeah and I always teach Florida
rules and then say here's why Idisagree with it.
Right, but this is what we haveto do.

Speaker 1 (01:12:06):
This is what we have to do.
This is you don't like it, getto a place where you can affect
some change to it, but untilthen, this is what we're gonna
do and now that I have some time, many of the things I'll spend
my time on or trying to putlegislation to you know support,
so bring back the Chamber ofReflection.
Correct?

Speaker 2 (01:12:22):
I might fail because I'm an idiot and a all single
person.
But maybe it is good for freemasonry, because what I want to
do is go back to some of thethings.
Why don't we have a chamber ofreflection?

Speaker 1 (01:12:32):
Why don't we have a chamber of reflection?

Speaker 2 (01:12:33):
I can't use a coffin in our ritual.

Speaker 1 (01:12:35):
Why can't we use a coffin in our ritual?
That's right.

Speaker 2 (01:12:37):
I mean, we need these things back snatch the other
person's holy book off the Biblebefore he's gone off the altar,
like.
There are a few things thatbother me.
I can't clap for a guy.
There are some things that Itake issue with, but I try to
follow the rules right, that'sright.
So me as a good mason, I shouldtry to change the rules if I
disagree with them properlyright but it but you're showing

(01:12:58):
respect for the craft.

Speaker 1 (01:13:00):
You show more respect for the craft by adhering to
rules you don't agree with youhave to show through example,
it's easy to adhere to rules.
You agree with that's easy, yessure but it's not easy to
adhere to rules that you don'tagree with, but it shows Respect
.
That's right for the craft andfor our system of government,
which I'm very proud of.
In our state our Grand MasterHolds sacred.

(01:13:21):
You know the rules and laws ofour craft and I have I have
great confidence in him.

Speaker 2 (01:13:27):
Yeah, you know, he seems to be big on
accountability, yep, yep, whichis really encouraging to see
leadership, care aboutaccountability that I agree,
hope for the future.
Yep of the fraternity inFlorida.
And you know, when the GrandMaster cares, everyone else is
gonna start to care a lot moretoo.

Speaker 1 (01:13:46):
Yeah, that's right.

Speaker 2 (01:13:46):
We kind of see that people are using some of the
things he's done as examples ofthis is why we need to be better
.

Speaker 1 (01:13:53):
Right.
This is why you can't do thosebad things and speaking of grant
the Grand Master, I know wesaid in a couple of podcasts
that we were trying to get aninterview with him going, but it
sounds like they're just sobusy.

Speaker 2 (01:14:05):
They're very busy.

Speaker 1 (01:14:06):
They're swamped, so it doesn't look like it's gonna
happen this year.
So hopefully next year we canget him as a past Grand Master.
No, but I just, I just it wouldhave been.
It will be a great.
I'm believing that it's gonnahappen.
He and the First Lady didexpress a Desire to do so, but

(01:14:28):
schedules being what they are,we totally understand that
that's.

Speaker 2 (01:14:31):
That's gotta be one busy job, man you gotta be, yeah
, going, going and going andgoing man.

Speaker 1 (01:14:37):
So we totally get it.
We're just a humble littlepodcast here in Sarasota,
florida, with big, giant hopesand dreams.
That's all we are.
We're the, we're the ant thatcould man.

Speaker 2 (01:14:50):
It's.
It's a little challenging forus because we are in Florida.
And we do have more access tothe people in Florida and we
have seen that in Florida.
It really benefits the entirecraft to hear directly from
these.
Leaders who really are whatthey're passionate about, why
they do the thing that they'rejust people.

Speaker 1 (01:15:09):
They're just normal guys and gals.

Speaker 2 (01:15:11):
Yeah because all, most of the craft gets.
Honestly, most of them only getthe words that are read at the
district.
Deputy visit right where theyread the grandmasters words.
Yeah so, yeah, you get thevision, but do you?
You don't really understand whoyour grandmaster is, and so we
Found that when we did interviewthem at the last Grand Lodge
session, it was so beneficial tous personally.

(01:15:34):
Right and also to many peoplethat we heard listen to it, that
they got a better connection totheir leadership.
Yeah and they felt, yeah, moreconnected, like it was a better
example of how to be amazed andhearing from them.
So our goal is to hopefully getthem sooner in the career
rather than at the end.
So while they're serving peopleknow who they are better.

Speaker 1 (01:15:54):
Yeah, funny how that year just went.
Zoom in by, worshipful master,just zoom in by where are we?

Speaker 2 (01:16:00):
We're in like 10.

Speaker 1 (01:16:02):
Month 10.
I think you wasn't it likemonth three yesterday it's like
gee man, it just flew by.

Speaker 2 (01:16:09):
I guess for me it feels like five years have
passed in the last nine months.
It was a.
It was a lot this year.
I took on too much, and that'sa good lesson for everyone,
every amazing, yes, everything,right you gotta, if you want to
do a good job, you got to focuson.
You know what you have time tofocus on yeah, I'm feeling that
too lately.
Yeah, I've heard other peoplesay, oh wow, after your master

(01:16:31):
Mason you get into all thesethings and you're like whoa, I
got overextended, all of asudden yeah, I'm not, I'm not
doing it.

Speaker 1 (01:16:37):
I'm very happy With my, my position as treasurer at
our lodge.
I enjoy it.
I enjoy working with thesecretary, so I feel like I'm
we're accomplishing some goodthings there.
I became a Shriners so that Icould be in motor core because I
love riding motorcycles, butthen I got involved in a whole
bunch of other things not notbad things in themselves, but

(01:17:00):
just too many things like you'reon the competition degree team,
right, and it's just all theselittle things keep happening and
it's like, all right, come thenew year.
I am going to figure out.
I've been journaling a lot ofthis stuff.
I'm going to figure out oh.
I love journaling.

Speaker 2 (01:17:16):
Can we read it on the air?
You cannot.

Speaker 1 (01:17:18):
I would probably be in big trouble.
Anybody ever caught any,anybody ever got any of those
documents.
I can get the black on thispage.
I can read and it's so, true,good stuff in here, but I, by
the first of the year, I'm goingto figure out what does my year

(01:17:41):
look like, because I'm probablygoing to be starting a new
business With my son.
Oh, who's starting a plumbingcompany, and I have lots of
experience in plumbing so I willprobably help him start that
business.
Plumbers make a ridiculousamount of money in the state,
yeah, yeah.
So that's, that's gonna be areal blessing to work on that.

(01:18:01):
So I will have to trim the fata little bit here and there.
So the first of the year For me, blue Lodge will always be
first.
It will always be first to meme too.
I, I love it.
I love the, just the purity ofit.
It's not a place we here inFlorida.
There's no alcohol allowedanywhere on the property, so

(01:18:23):
it's not a party.
I don't.
I certainly anybody who knowsme knows that I'm all about an
adult beverage From time to time, including cigars and premium
whiskies.
I am about that and I don'tmind it.
But there's something aboutlike last night we were in Lodge
and it was.
It was an off night.
There was really there was noin there.
I got there early and the Lodgewas just, it was empty.

(01:18:47):
It was clean.
I turned on all the lights.
I was by myself and I justrealized how much I love this
place.
You figured out how to get theAC working and I figured out the
AC was not working, or figuredit out.

Speaker 2 (01:18:55):
He comes to me and says a the AC is not working.
And I'm thinking, oh god, Iwant to be sitting here tomorrow
in a monkey suit, like drenchedin sweat.

Speaker 1 (01:19:04):
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:19:05):
I'm already thinking, okay, what can we wear?
Flip-flops, like.
Okay, don't wear underwear,maybe a t-shirt.

Speaker 1 (01:19:10):
I don't know how we're gonna survive the truth
kilt right, no, underwear rightyeah.
Yeah, true, kilt, not a dressnot not, yeah, not a skirt, but
thank god, you got the ACworking.
I, I just I don't know how I doit.
I just snoop and snoop andsnoop till I find it, and then
we turned it back on and it wasworking.
So there you go.
That's, that rabbit hole isfree.

Speaker 2 (01:19:30):
But I'm anyone who gives a crap you know, on my
years coming to an end and I'mthinking how can I be of service
to the craft?
And I'm getting offeredpositions in the Scottish Rite
and people aren't ticing me toget involved in New York, right,
but my drive is still the BlueLodge.
I've turned down the positionsI've been offered Because I
don't want to overextend myselfand I want to continue to stay

(01:19:52):
focused in the Blue Lodge.

Speaker 1 (01:19:53):
Yeah, me too.

Speaker 2 (01:19:54):
And everything we're doing with this podcast, with
our positions that we've had andwill continue to have in our
district, are all about BlueLodges and even what we're doing
at the Grand Lodge level withthe marketing reimbursement
program and happy to announcethat Brother Fred Packwood is
now on that committee along withBrother John Schaefer.
We will be going around nextyear talking a whole lot about

(01:20:18):
the Grand Lodge marketingreimbursement program that is to
help the Blue Lodges.

Speaker 1 (01:20:22):
Think about it.

Speaker 2 (01:20:23):
Everything we do is being funneled towards
supporting the Blue Lodge.

Speaker 1 (01:20:26):
That's right.
That's right, and I don't seethat changing for me in the
future.
I hope not.
I hope not Because it's notgoing to change for me and you
have been an absolute benefit tothe craft with regard to Blue
Lodge in this state and I canonly see it just getting you
know, taking it, we talk aboutit Next year.
We're taking this podcast andour involvement in the craft to

(01:20:50):
the next level.

Speaker 2 (01:20:51):
Heights that people won't believe we're going nuts.

Speaker 1 (01:20:54):
Nuts, though, and we're going nuts, we made it.
We're over a year, I think, inpodcasting.

Speaker 2 (01:20:59):
Just about a year now .

Speaker 1 (01:21:00):
Yeah, just about a year.
So we're probably close to 100episodes, which is a big
milestone.

Speaker 2 (01:21:05):
Wow, and it's not even hard.

Speaker 1 (01:21:08):
No, because we love it.
That's why.

Speaker 2 (01:21:10):
Like I didn't know anything about podcasting.
At the beginning of this stuff,fred was trying to convince me
that you know, it's easy, it'sfun.
But then, right before westarted, you said here's the
thing.
Yeah, here's the thing thereare some things that might be
hard for us and you explainedlike what typical podcast
challenge.

Speaker 1 (01:21:27):
Right, it's like a plateau, yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:21:29):
It's like this sense of not sticking to the schedule.
All the challenges you told meabout haven't been challenges
for us.

Speaker 1 (01:21:36):
No.

Speaker 2 (01:21:37):
Amazingly, Like content isn't an issue.
We could sit down with no prepand say what do you want to talk
about, and then do an hour anda half show on it and do an hour
and a half on it and it's likea half decent show, right,
imagine?
If we had time to think aboutstuff.

Speaker 1 (01:21:49):
Well, that's coming next year.
We do want to.
I don't know if I should bringthis up, but we are going to
delve into a little bit ofAlbert Pike's stuff, a little
bit here and there, and that'sgoing to require a little bit of
study, and also shout out toanybody who has knowledge
regarding the man's work.
Yeah, we'd certainly like totalk to you.

Speaker 2 (01:22:07):
There are some prolific Masonic authors, he
being the primary one.

Speaker 1 (01:22:11):
Right.

Speaker 2 (01:22:11):
Albert Mackey being the second Yep, yeah.
Right, and there's a lot ofwritings from these people out
there that deserve being talkedabout and thought about.

Speaker 1 (01:22:19):
Yeah, yeah.
So we're going to try to.
You know, we want to go throughour Grand Lodge material from
beginning to end.
We want everybody to have ataste of all the material that
Grand Lodge has put out for ourbenefit, because we want
everybody who listens to theshow to get that stuff out and
read it from time to time and beproficient in it, because it

(01:22:42):
matters.
It matters, it makes you aMason.
That's what makes you a MasonIs that you know what Masonry is
, you know what it isn't, andthat's our primary goal.
But, ooh, can I clarify?

Speaker 2 (01:22:52):
Yes, Go Go Because there was an issue we didn't
talk about in the past out ofrespect, because the situation
was heated in the moment.
Somebody close to us publiclyaccused me of using my position
as a worship master to furtherbusiness interests.
That oh right, yeah, okay, geez, it happens.
This is what happens when yougo out and do stuff.

(01:23:13):
People assume your motives.
They think.

Speaker 1 (01:23:15):
Right.

Speaker 2 (01:23:16):
Bad things, and we didn't want to talk about it at
the time because it would be tooobvious who it was Right.
And it's like don't want tohurt anyone's feelings, but
really, at the end of the day,what we're focused on is giving
tools and empowering Masons in.
Grand Lodge to become betterMasons.

Speaker 1 (01:23:34):
Right.

Speaker 2 (01:23:36):
We are not in this to become rich.

Speaker 1 (01:23:38):
Yeah, please Just check the books, man.

Speaker 2 (01:23:41):
I honestly don't know if there is a way to turn this
into a profitable thing, butthat doesn't mean you're not
going to see us around doingthings that cost money, because
this is a way that we're goingto be able to provide useful
tools.

Speaker 1 (01:23:55):
Yeah, that's right To .

Speaker 2 (01:23:56):
Masons all over the world.
Hopefully.

Speaker 1 (01:23:58):
Yeah, I mean, look, masonry is it's not for free.
You have dues that you pay, andthere are, we do fundraisers,
but somebody's got to put theplumbing in on any endeavor is
going to take that nastybusiness of actually financing
it Then you're going to have topower through things of people

(01:24:19):
doing things like that, liketrying to bring you down.

Speaker 2 (01:24:22):
Yeah, and I know everyone here that's been in
Masonry, that's done anything,is shaking their head, yep, yep.
It doesn't matter where you are, it doesn't matter what you're
trying to do, if you're tryingto progress, if you're trying to
push things forward.
That is going to make somepeople uncomfortable.

Speaker 1 (01:24:39):
Yeah, and they're going to lash out.
Yes, they're going to say stuffthat you have to be prepared
for that.
That's right, don't think?

Speaker 2 (01:24:44):
it's going to be all sunshine and rainbows.
For us it's not.

Speaker 1 (01:24:47):
Yep.

Speaker 2 (01:24:47):
People are always trying to take shots and try to
tell you things, or?
Make you look bad and that'sjust something you have to deal
with, and for us we're takingthe Masonic path of let's not
even address that.

Speaker 1 (01:25:00):
Right, we don't have to explain ourselves.
No, we're not going to explainourselves to people who have no
desire to hear what we have tosay in the first place.

Speaker 2 (01:25:09):
If there's a real concern, email or talk to us,
yeah.
That's right that would be yourfirst step probably.

Speaker 1 (01:25:15):
It would show us that you desire to be Masonic in
your conduct yes, and that yourintention is a loving one.
We say it all the time.
You know if you're postingstuff online in any way, whether
your cause is just or not, ifyou're posting online about
another Mason without theirknowledge or permission, then
you're wrong.
Even if what you're saying isright and just, you're still

(01:25:39):
wrong, man, because the way youwent about it is absolutely
un-Masonic and nobody's going tolisten to you.
And in this particularsituation, in the end we're
still here, we're still movingforward, and that person is, I
don't know, north Carolina.
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (01:25:55):
I don't know, virginia or something I don't
know Somewhere up north, I don'tknow where.

Speaker 1 (01:25:58):
The person's a brother he just is a brother who
has just reasons, but I don'tknow what they are.
At the end of the day, it stillstands.
You know what you say, what Italked about when I first came
on here that email I wrote.
That email's going to standforever.

Speaker 2 (01:26:16):
It's never going to go away.
You put the words, and nowthey're out there.

Speaker 1 (01:26:20):
And now they're out there and you know I make this
claim to people all the time andI should have listened to it
myself and I did not.
Now, this was not in a Masoniccontext, but those guys know I'm
a Mason.
They know that I'm a Christianand a Mason and it's probably
was slightly unbecoming of meslightly.

Speaker 2 (01:26:39):
I'm going to give myself a little bit of a break
there.

Speaker 1 (01:26:42):
But you know, when you put it out there, I'm still
back on social media here.
It doesn't go away.
It's never going to go away.
You can't take it back.
So, be careful.

Speaker 2 (01:26:53):
It's given me a new respect for the Grand Lodge
people because I never reallybefore thought about the arrows
that they're probably takingalong the journey.

Speaker 1 (01:27:03):
Oh my gosh, Can you imagine?

Speaker 2 (01:27:05):
You know, when you're coming up you're like, oh
they're, they're just like.
You think in your head thingsthat aren't real right, because
you just don't know.
But now I have some.
I'm not like a Grand Lodgeperson, but we are public and
have done things in the historyand for me it started in the
Blue Lodge.
I was always trying to push andadvance and always, always,
from day one, there were theseslings and arrows.

(01:27:27):
And so I have a new perspectiveon how much those people must
have dealt with in their Masoniccareers to get where they are
and have survived it and arestill here and still love the
craft and love the brothersdespite all that.

Speaker 1 (01:27:40):
Oh, I know, Can you imagine?
No, I can actually the emailthat your email box alone must
be a dreadful moment.
Every morning you open it upand say what's going to be in
here now you know.

Speaker 2 (01:27:51):
I hope it's not like that, but I could totally see it
.
I can see it oh.

Speaker 1 (01:27:54):
I'm sure it is.
I'm sure they get.
They get hammered by all kindsof kookiness.
I'm going to call it all thetime.
All right, brother, we are at anhour and a half for this
podcast.
Talked about a lot of things.
We're going to we're going tomonitor that Texas situation
because we're really interestedin it.
We want to know what theoutcome is If there's anybody

(01:28:15):
listening to the show who hasany inside knowledge into this.
If you want to remain anonymousand speak to us, we're more
than happy to do that.
If you want to come onapparently you're not allowed to
, so we don't want you to breakany Masonic laws in Texas or
anything like that.
There's a brother out there ona podcast.
We're going to reach out to him.
He's got a.
He's got a podcast.

(01:28:35):
It's a YouTube channel that hedoes.
He's he's does Mason, so he'sgot a lot of knowledge into the
situation.
He's from Texas.

Speaker 2 (01:28:43):
Oh, he is, I think he is.
So what's it called?
It's got a drinks name in itOld fashioned.
Yeah, that's it the oldfashioned Masonic podcast.

Speaker 1 (01:28:51):
We're going to reach out to him See if he would come
on and we can talk about it alittle bit.
We just want to get the entirecommunity of masons nationwide
involved in a conversation.
Man, that's really what thispodcast has always been about,
and well, and here's the thing.

Speaker 2 (01:29:05):
We have a Masonic podcast.
We love other Masonic podcastswe do.
It's not like we're incompetition you know.

Speaker 1 (01:29:10):
No, no, no, no, there's plenty of room.

Speaker 2 (01:29:12):
We're going to get plenty of room, that's right.

Speaker 1 (01:29:24):
If you listen to the very end, you are our hero.
Thank you so much for beinghere, for listening to us.
It means a lot to us.
We get cards and letters fromall over the globe.
No cards.
I'm an old man, I say cards.
Yeah, I have not yet caught upto the 80s, so I'm working on it
.

Speaker 2 (01:29:43):
Telegram by the minute.
You see, I got me a telegram.
Telegram she's gone crazy.

Speaker 1 (01:29:50):
All right, brothers, you know.
Again, thank you so much forlistening.
Feel free to email us, let usknow what you guys think.
Send cards, send cards andletters to Fred, but send your
emails to Chris, who is actuallyinto the 90s.
So yeah, anyways, guys, againthanks a lot, and this has been
another great episode.
Chris, I will see you in thenext one.

(01:30:12):
Thank you, brothers.

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Exploring the Unseen Aspects of Officer Politics and Freemasonry | More Masonic Etiquette