Interview with M:. W:. Jefferey Foster, Past Grand Master of Masons in FL

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Hey Chris, yeah, fred , what's a Mason?
That's a really good question,fred.

Speaker 2 (00:15):
You've reached the internet's home for all things
masonry.
Join Chris and I as we plumbthe depths of our ancient craft,
from the common gavel to thetrowel.
Nothing is off the table, sograb your tools and let's get to
work.
This is On the Level.
All right, chris.
Hello, where's the holler?
There it is.

Speaker 1 (00:37):
Oh my gosh.
Sorry, you asked for it.
I asked for it, it's my fault,I get it, I get it Wow.

Speaker 2 (00:48):
What on earth?
Today is a big day for us.
Today is a big day for us.

Speaker 1 (00:53):
It really is.
We are able to right a terriblewrong.

Speaker 2 (00:57):
It's a great day for our sins and ignorance of the
past Mine especially.

Speaker 1 (01:01):
No, it's a team thing .

Speaker 2 (01:03):
It's a team.

Speaker 1 (01:05):
We fail together.
Only one of us three isinnocent.
In this group you can hear himlaughing.
You know who it is Most.
Worship will Jeffrey as FosterMorning.
Good morning sir.

Speaker 2 (01:19):
Many of our fans don't know that during Grand
Lodge communication most worshipwill Foster was one of our
first interviews.
She was the reason we weredoing these interviews.
Absolute reason for it and, ofcourse, the sound engineer me
neglected to push save when Iclosed out his particular file

(01:41):
and, of course, the machine didexactly what I told it to do it
erased it, yeah, so it was goneand we could not find it.

Speaker 1 (01:49):
We sure spent months looking at it, we sure spent
months looking everywhere to tryto see if we could find it, and
then Chris and I are like well,now, what do we do?
We have to apologize.

Speaker 2 (02:01):
We're going to have to get ahold of him and tell him
how dumb we really are.

Speaker 3 (02:03):
Yeah, in 20 years you'll find it to be the lost
recording.

Speaker 2 (02:07):
Yeah, that's right, the lost recordings of.
On the Level with Fred andChris.

Speaker 1 (02:13):
The original Unedited .
No, we appreciate you comingand being a huge sport.
Yeah, absolutely Huge sport forus.
So go ahead, chris.
Yeah, I mean, we interviewedyou at Grand Lodge on the first
day, I believe.

Speaker 2 (02:31):
Yeah, it was definitely the first day Yep.

Speaker 1 (02:35):
Our second interview actually Hayber.

Speaker 2 (02:37):
Right where Hayber was first yeah.

Speaker 1 (02:41):
Then most were full after that, and then we said oh,
we know what we're doing.

Speaker 2 (02:45):
We really didn't know .
We had a chance to get to theGrand Lodge?

Speaker 1 (02:50):
Absolutely no.
But you know that was such anawesome experience because I
didn't really know the weight ofwhat we're doing at the time.
We just wanted to interviewpeople and like, tell their
story and talk about who theyare, but realize later it was
awesome.
So many people in the state weknow the names, we know the
titles but we don't really knowthe person you know.
A lot of people in the stateare afraid to go to a Grand

(03:13):
Master at a visit and shaketheir hand and strike up a
conversation.
And so all they know is theGrand Masters words they get
read at the visits and whateverthe Grand Master says at the
visit if they go.
So I think this just has turnedout to be an awesome way for
especially the members ofFlorida to get to know the Grand

(03:33):
Lodge people, the men behindthe jobs.

Speaker 2 (03:37):
Yeah, that's right.

Speaker 1 (03:37):
It was so eye-opening to talk to everyone we talked
to and, like I, was just shockedat the time, like, wow, this,
you aren't who I thought youwere going to be Right.

Speaker 2 (03:47):
Right, you guys are like real people.

Speaker 1 (03:48):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (03:49):
Real people, yeah, and I can add to that if.
Yeah, go ahead.

Speaker 3 (03:53):
Yes, absolutely I don't think I don't think I know
any past Grand Masters or upand coming Grand Masters that
their feelings would be hurt ifyou didn't come up and shake
their hand.

Speaker 1 (04:05):
And that's one of the reasons.

Speaker 3 (04:07):
You know we're nobody special.
We're just at the front of thepack right now and you know,
pretty soon we're going to be atthe back of the pack with
everybody else and you know thatthat makes us one of, you know,
brothers.
So there should be no reasonwhy anybody doesn't want to come
up and shake Grand Lodgeofficers hands because we're not

(04:30):
.
We're not anything special,we're just just brothers in a
position?

Speaker 2 (04:33):
Yeah, that's, and I found that to be absolutely true
.
We just had our Grand Mastervisit Sarasota Saheb shrine,
yeah, and you know, I I wasfeeling that same feeling most
that you were talking aboutgoing up and, you know, talking
to like as a brother you feltmost hesitant, right, right, I

(04:55):
maybe I shouldn't, and I?

Speaker 1 (04:57):
myself or whatever is going through your mind.

Speaker 2 (04:59):
Right and, and of course, our current Grand Master
, most Worship Bishop was, wasjust so gracious and, like you
said, he's just a regular guy.
I can tell he's the kind of guyand I would just venture to say
most Worship will foster thathe's probably kind of cut along
the same cloth maybe, as you arewhere very direct, you can tell

(05:22):
, and I can tell too by talkingto you as well, most Worship
will that you guys are reallydirect, which I for one
absolutely appreciates.
Yes, because I would assumeit's from your guys.
His military background iswhere that.

Speaker 1 (05:35):
I'm sure.
Yeah, they learn not to makesure.

Speaker 3 (05:39):
I know that our current Grand Master loves it
when you come up and asking forfive dollars, just go up Inside
baseball there we that's as goodas done.

Speaker 2 (05:48):
We will definitely do that.
We're hoping to interview him.
I know a setup when I hear whatthat's.

Speaker 1 (05:53):
A setup, a setup.

Speaker 2 (05:55):
I'm willing to fall right into.
Okay, just for fun, absolutely,we're going to hopefully
interview him and and the firstlady when, on their first visit
down to the Shrine Home, down tothe our.
What am I trying to say?

Speaker 1 (06:13):
the.

Speaker 2 (06:15):
I know I went right out of your head.
I saw you had it and it justleft.
Anyways, the the Masonic home.
Thank you, masonic home in in.

Speaker 1 (06:26):
I was really in St Petersburg.

Speaker 3 (06:28):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (06:28):
We'll interview him then, and that's one of the
first things we're going to do,of course, is ask him if we
could borrow five dollarsimmediately.

Speaker 1 (06:35):
Yeah, sure, on the air, get his real reaction to
that.
Curious to see what that'sgoing to be now, but his wife
Odessa she had such aninteresting like situation this
year.
I'm sure you've been to some oftheir visits right most wishful
.

Speaker 3 (06:54):
I have.

Speaker 1 (06:55):
Yeah, she.
She printed out bios of everymember in our district that is
in the Masonic home and she gavespeech about the people and how
she do things for the people,not the floors, not the walls,
but the people.
And it really struck me I thinkshe got like choked up a bit

(07:15):
when she was.

Speaker 3 (07:16):
I mean this absolutely some well they so
they live real close to theMasonic home.
I mean they're there in that.
They live right there inClearwater okay, right outside
St Pete, so she has theopportunity to spend a lot of
time at the home and she's she'sbecome very what am I trying to

(07:38):
say?
Very, very close with a lot ofthe residents of the home.

Speaker 2 (07:42):
Right, right, yeah, and you know I've done a little
bit of work in different, youknow homes and retirement
villages and it's, it'saddictive.
You go in there and thosepeople are so they just want to.
They just want to sit down andhave and talk with anybody about
anything, be engaged, and whenyou do that I don't care who you

(08:04):
are.
When you do that, it just itchanges you.
So I can only imagine her goingin there.
She seems like a woman with abig heart to begin with who goes
in there, yeah, yeah so she'sbeen totally captivated by it
and I'm, for one, I'm reallyglad, because you know, we hear
all these things about theMasonic home, this, that and the
other, and all this stuff andall this man are trying to fix

(08:26):
the walls and paint the ceilings, and now here comes the first
lady who goes in there andbrings that.
You know, hey, these are just,I just want to help the people
and I, just, as soon as shestarted talking about she was
she was pretty emotional aboutit, fairly emotional about it
when she was talking about it.
So so was the whole crowd.
We all just were like you knowwhat?
okay, fine, that emotionprobably some conversations that

(08:48):
need to be happen, that need tohappen about the system.
But she's right, there arepeople in there who are right
that we're obligated to love andtake care of man and I just
love that direction.
So that interview is going tobe really good.
I'm really looking forward toit.

Speaker 1 (09:03):
I think when more people hear that they'll get a
lot more money for the for thecause this year because it's
just such a people are going toconnect with that message big
time yeah, I'm, I'm resident togive up anything Masonic
anywhere.

Speaker 2 (09:19):
I know that, like for us, for instance, the Sarasota
Saheb shrine.
That building has been therefor a long, long time and they
really struggle.

Speaker 1 (09:26):
They almost lost the thing and they were definitely
on the verge.

Speaker 2 (09:29):
Yeah, the fact that they're on the ascendancy and
actually actually out of the redand into the black and making,
making definite progress in theright direction.
It it?
I feel the same way about thatmasonic home.
It's been there forever, it'sours, we're obligated to take
care of it.
I would be, I would be.
It would take a lot to convinceme to go any other direction.

Speaker 1 (09:49):
But keep that thing right where it is well, the
Saheb shrine was about to loseeverything and they didn't get
an influx of members.
They didn't get angel investors.
The leadership changed.
That's it.

Speaker 2 (10:00):
Yeah, the leadership change that's what it yeah, yes,
sir, absolutely, and that's agreat point, chris.
That's exactly right.

Speaker 1 (10:06):
Leadership can change everything.
Good leadership, strongleadership, that is lifting
everyone around them up right,everyone starts to rally and you
get momentum and that momentumsolves a lot of problems.

Speaker 2 (10:16):
Yeah, that's right.
Well, most worse will tell uswhat's been going on in in so
far in your year.
How is retirement?
Yeah, how's retirement going so?

Speaker 3 (10:30):
retirement is great.
I do miss, you know, travelingaround, but I don't travel as
much as I used to.
I kind of stay in thebackground.
I try to to limit myself, youknow, to what I'm, what I'm
actually going to do.
Actually, I have a house thatwas neglected for four or five

(10:54):
years, so I'm in the process oftrying to redo all that we'll
pray for you, brother.

Speaker 2 (11:00):
Yeah, I appreciate it , I need it.

Speaker 3 (11:03):
I'm getting more involved in local events.
You know, right here in northFlorida, scottish Wright, other
bodies just just trying to.
You know, take time and dothings that I want to do, not

(11:25):
that I need to do you certainlyearned that.

Speaker 1 (11:29):
So you yourself graduated high school in 1981.
Is that right, correct, correct?
And then you went basicallyright out of high school into
the Navy.

Speaker 3 (11:43):
I took the summer off and, a matter of fact, in 10
days, 42 years ago I believe, Ishowed up at boot camp wow what
was boot camp like for you?

Speaker 1 (11:57):
I never went into the military, so I'm always like
you know, we always like regretthe path not taken.
I started having kids at 19.
I didn't have time for themilitary, but looking back, I
wish I would have maybe takenthat path first, because
everyone that I meet that is amilitary person is just

(12:17):
different than the rest of usyeah, that's right.

Speaker 2 (12:19):
That's right.

Speaker 3 (12:20):
I really admire some of the treats well you get, you
know you get thrown into adifferent, a different culture,
a different environment and whatmost people are used to,
because in a militaryenvironment you're getting input
from, you know, differentpeople from all over the country

(12:40):
, so there's just not one onesocial environment.

Speaker 2 (12:47):
You're getting it from all over the place so you
develop your own and most peopledon't get to see that yeah,
yeah, that's right yeah andyou're at a young age, you're
put into, you know, difficultsituations, you know, and
confronted by otherpersonalities and
responsibilities, right away youknow.
Like you said, you were rightat a high school at the right

(13:08):
old age of 18.
There you are, you know, in agigantic system.
You know, and then you have tohave to learn to deal with it
and to the discipline and allthat where me, at the right old
age of 18, I don't know what.

Speaker 1 (13:20):
I was doing or where I was going, you know.

Speaker 2 (13:22):
So yeah, it's absolutely I and for me it's
definitely a missed calling.
I regret.
I sat at 19 years old, I sat inthe Navy Recruiters office and
was ready to go and I backed outlike a coward at the last
minute and I've always, alwaysbitterly regretted that.
But anyway, that's me.

Speaker 1 (13:40):
We're not here to interview Fred well, when we see
, when we say, navy, you were innaval aviation, right, did you
actually fly planes, or?

Speaker 3 (13:49):
were you just no, I did not fly.
I started out working and then,through a series of
consequences, I guess I'd say Iended up taking care of log
books and aircraft, manus,discrepancies, and it was pretty

(14:10):
much an office job for the last18-17 years of my naval
aviation career so yeah, soadministrative in there, and
that's probably why you madesuch an early age probably why
you were as grand master.

Speaker 2 (14:31):
You know that's probably.
Those skills were probablyquite handy inside that realm.

Speaker 1 (14:37):
Absolutely, I get that on paper you have the
textbook life.
So you served in the military.

Speaker 3 (14:43):
You got out and graduated from Jones College in
2001 yep, I figured out early inmy naval career that the best
way to get a college educationwas to let them pay for it.
So that is true there were alot of late nights, you know,
going to work and then going toschool and coming home and

(15:05):
getting up and doing it all overagain oh, you had to work
through college.

Speaker 1 (15:09):
It was well worth it.

Speaker 3 (15:11):
What kind of work were you doing at that time?
I was in the Navy yeah, so Iwould work during the daytime
and went to school at night yeah, and what did you go to school
for?
when I first started attendingcollege I had the notion of

(15:31):
getting an aviation degree.
So I went to Ember Riddle andthen I transferred duty stations
and I got involved with acouple guys, couple shipmates of
mine, that were heavilyinvolved in the early stages of
computers, and I changed myminor, or I changed my major

(15:52):
rather, to computer information.
So I was within, I think, 10 or15 credits of graduating with a
bachelor's degree in aviationmaintenance when I changed and
had to pretty much start allover again.

Speaker 1 (16:08):
So I've got a lot of credits you were mainly
interested in computer science,right, I was.
I got involved with a coupleguys that were early computer
users, and it just took off fromthere it seems like your whole
life was busy at that kind oftime in your life because you

(16:30):
were in the military.
You're getting an education.
You actually got married atsome point in that time frame,
right?

Speaker 2 (16:39):
oh yeah, I got married two years into my naval
career right, and then you hadwhich was probably one of the
big deciders of why I continuedon instead of getting out to
support your new wife yeah, sheliked to have a supper on the
table, you know, so that was theway I could do it well, it's

(16:59):
true, when a young man takes awife and starts a family at a
young age, man, it tends tocause that young man to step up,
you know, and to takeresponsibility, you know.
That's why, in the world of art, you know, art is a art.
That's a part of our history.

(17:20):
About history young men gotmarried young, you know, because
it was one of the ways to getthem to focus you know, nowadays
the average, the average man isgetting married in his late
30's and I think it's workingout all that good but that's a
conversation for another show Iwould assume January of 89.

Speaker 1 (17:44):
January of 89.
That makes him a-a-quariusProbably.

Speaker 2 (17:49):
I'm-I'm not up on my Okay, yeah, that's a whole other
thing, not either.

Speaker 1 (17:54):
So that was all-I mean you were-you were a young
man when you were doing all that.
You're in the military, you'regetting education, you're
married.
Now you have a kid.
That's a lot of responsibilityearly in life, and is that
something you kind of alwayswanted, or did that just happen
to you?

Speaker 3 (18:12):
Um, I think-you know, I think the good Lord just said
, you know, he-he put things inmy life when I needed them,
right, I don't-you know.
I-yes, our son was planned.
You know, I was-in the Navy.
You go from sea duty to shoreduty, to sea duty to shore duty

(18:35):
and uh, you know, holly and Ihad discussed that I didn't want
to have a child and immediatelygo out to sea.
I needed to be around to helpout.
So we were getting ready tocome off of sea duty and go to
shore duty and I knew I wasgoing to be around for three
years.
So, you know, we kind ofplanned that out and, uh, I

(18:56):
think it worked out well.

Speaker 2 (18:58):
Yeah, yeah, my youngest son was a submariner,
um, and uh, he's eight years.
He did eight years in there andhe-he was-he was torn between
it.
You know, because you knowthose guys are out for three
months straight, oh yeah, um,and under the water and um, he
loved it, but he wanted to havea family and um, and he knew

(19:21):
that that's not-he didn't reallywant to.
You know, have that.
There's a lot of guys who aresubmariners who do have that
where their wives you know thepicture of the water, the wives
you know the picture of thewives sitting at the dock
waiting for the boat to come inUh, he didn't want-he didn't
want that.
So that's why he-he got out, um,at eight years and started his
family.
He's actually-he's-he just gotmarried, uh, two years ago.
They're just getting ready tohave their first kid.

(19:43):
So, uh, same thing.
You know, it's just, uh, it'sthat.
I don't know, man, it's thatdisciplined life.
I'm-i'm so grateful that hedecided to go into the military,
like he did, like I'm sure youare.
You know that it-it-it gave youall of those advantages.
You know that-that a lot of us,you know, didn't take advantage
of.
So what-what-what do you see?

(20:04):
Um, most worst-ful Um,where-where are we at currently?
Um, you know, as far as masonrygoes, um, you know what's, uh,
what's the-what's the good inthe bad.
What do you-what do you seeWhat's-what's-what's positive of
late?
You know, so far, we're what?
Eight months, uh, into the-thenew year, here, Um, on a grand

(20:26):
lodge.
I'm not asking you to, you know, con-you kinda are, but I'm
kinda asking-you kinda are.
I kinda wanna know from a pastgrandmaster current, you know,
past grandmaster um, where-whatdo you see?
What's the positive,what's-what's going on?
That's-that's good.
That's positive about, uh, ourcraft.

Speaker 3 (20:43):
So you know, with-with everything, uh,
there's always cycles.
Nothing is ever just steady,right?
Um, everything goes to a cycle,and-and free masonry is-is no
exception.
We go through cycles, we go-wego up and we go down, and um,

(21:04):
currently, I see free masonry onan uptick myself.

Speaker 1 (21:09):
Yeah, um, I wonder how they got on an uptick.

Speaker 2 (21:14):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (21:14):
Well, maybe more-more social.
Foster had something to do withthat, right.

Speaker 3 (21:18):
Well, so when I was grandmaster you know, every
grandmaster was a-was, a-was,a-was, a-was.
Every grandmaster wants to gointo office and say, all right,
how am I going to leave my markon the fraternity Right?
Um, there are some that-thatsay I'm going to do this and
this is what I'm doing.
And then there's a lot ofothers that say you know, what

(21:41):
are we going to do?
So when I became grandmaster, Igot the grand line and-and
we-during my deputy grandmasterhere as we were traveling around
, we-we talked about it andwe-we interviewed quite a few
brothers and, of course, we allknow that Brother Chris rose to
the top because he had a programthat he was doing um in his

(22:03):
lodge, where he was using socialmedia to get the word out about
free masonry.

Speaker 2 (22:08):
Right yeah.

Speaker 3 (22:11):
And I thought I was like, wow, that is so brilliant.
Because you know, if you lookin a newspaper, back in the 50s,
40s, 30s, lodges took out-therewere little places in the
newspaper that said, hey, ourlodge is meeting on this night
and we have a stated meeting andwe're going to do some business
, or you know, and back in thosedays that was how people got

(22:35):
information was through aprinted newspaper.
Now it's not so much.
I mean, everything is prettymuch digitized, everything is
online.
Yeah, um, yeah, they're whole-.
So you know the newspapers.
You know very, I don't you know, when I was a kid, one of the
jobs that I had was a newspaperboy Me too.

Speaker 1 (22:56):
You know I'd deliver newspaper.
Make good money doing that foryears.

Speaker 3 (23:00):
Yeah, I don't know that anybody ever does that
anymore.

Speaker 2 (23:06):
There's a car that drives by early in the morning
at my house and throwsnewspapers to selected houses
out of their car as they driveby Really.
Yeah, I mean the New York Timeswill do that.
Still, it won't be much longer.
Yeah, Now, of course, you knowthe New York Times as it goes,
flying out of the car will breakyour driveway, you know?
Because?

Speaker 1 (23:26):
it's huge as it is.

Speaker 2 (23:28):
I mean it's a gigantic waste of paper.

Speaker 1 (23:31):
It's not slowing down right.
They're just zipping by andthrowing them out.

Speaker 2 (23:34):
Right, but anyways, yeah, your point is well taken
that you know you helpedspearhead that the new medium
for reaching people was digital.
You know and it's a digitalmedium that you were
instrumental in helping Chrisbring that to the forefront.

(23:58):
You know Before that.

Speaker 3 (24:00):
I think that's the other way around.
I think Chris was instrumentalin bringing that to the craft
because through his efforts ofyou know, holding classes and
you know, at first he held themin person and then he went and
had Zoom informational classesand you know he spent a lot of

(24:22):
time.
And I'm going to you know I'mgoing to put Chris out there.
You know he spent a lot of timewith individual lodges, helping
them develop their own programand show them what to do, and a
lot of it.
If they followed his advice andhis instruction, I'm going to

(24:42):
say they were pretty successfulon it.
And I'm going to, I'm going toblow the horn of a lodge here in
my area, Table Lodge number 116in Greencoke Springs, florida.
They were on a downtick, theywere really, they were
struggling and they got a coupleof brothers in there and one of

(25:05):
them is Earl Hagenbotham,brother Earl who oh, we know him
went to Chris's, went toChris's class and learned what
to do, and you know, the manwith the most infectious smile
and free masonry.
Oh yeah, earl is he's.
He's very unusual and a greatmason and a great brother.
But you know he took that onand you know, yes, grand Lodge

(25:28):
and Senate advised it and wesaid, hey, if you go and spend,
you know this amount of money,well, reimburse you.
So the lodge didn't really haveany.
There wouldn't have a downsidefor a lodge to try this.

Speaker 1 (25:42):
You really gave them.
No reason to say, no Right.

Speaker 3 (25:46):
Every reason to say, we'll give it a shot Right and
brother, earl, took that on andyou know, the last time I talked
to him he had, I think, eightbrothers in the pipeline going
through getting their degrees tobecome members of that lodge
and it's been a great programand one of the things that you

(26:10):
know I don't want people toforget is that you still have to
guard the West gate.

Speaker 2 (26:15):
Right, that's right.

Speaker 3 (26:17):
Just because somebody can fog a mirror doesn't mean
they're going to make a greatmission.
So this program just bringsthem to the door, and once they
get to the door, the lodges needto weed those people out that
are not going to make goodmasons and not let them join.
But I mean I could be wrong.

(26:38):
But I see an uptick inmembership because now people
are starting to realize it.
There are a lot of young menout there right now that are
searching for what freemasonrycould offer them.

Speaker 1 (26:51):
Absolutely.

Speaker 3 (26:53):
Yeah, and they don't know where to look.

Speaker 1 (26:55):
No, they don't even know where to exist.
They've never heard offreemasonry, right they?

Speaker 3 (26:59):
don't know the questions to ask.
So you know, when you put thatout there and you bring them to
your front door, you know thatgives you a great opportunity to
do what we're supposed to domake good men better, yeah.

Speaker 1 (27:13):
That's right, and I won't take credit for that,
because you came before you werethe grandmaster it was the year
before, I think, you were there.
You came to our district and Idon't know if you said this at
all of the visits, but you saidsomething that I there were two

(27:34):
of us that stood up and gave youa standing ovation and I'm sure
you didn't even notice, but wewere like so happy to hear your
message.
It was.
It was a difficult time for ourcountry.
This is, I think, the beginningof the severe division we were
starting to have and people werereally drawing lines in the
sand online and being prettyaggressive in the way they were

(27:57):
talking.
Oh yeah, and it was reallyfrustrating because I see a lot
of masons that have their nameson trestle boards and you know
are known to be masons.
They are showing it all overtheir profiles on social media
and they would say things thatcould be pretty offensive to
people and you know, as a leaderrepresenting Freemasonry,

(28:19):
people that aren't masons don'tknow if they're speaking for the
fraternity or themselves as aperson.
So it gets really confusing.
And you stood up and said, hey,do me a favor, just spend 10
seconds thinking before you hitsubmit.

Speaker 2 (28:32):
Yeah, Post it on social media.

Speaker 1 (28:35):
Maybe just don't say everything that comes into your
head, maybe think about adifferent way to phrase it or be
a little more, you know,friendly and think about
brotherly love, and to haveresonated with me, because I was
really struggling at the timewith what I was seeing from my
own brothers.

Speaker 3 (28:51):
Oh well, and that's you know.
That's where that really strucka chord with me is I would you
know, I have a maternal brother,an actual blood brother, and I
would never go up to him and saysome of the stuff that I was
reading online, yeah, I wouldnever say to him in his face,

(29:13):
and I'm pretty sure that thepeople that were writing that
stuff would never say that tosomebody's face, especially
their brother.

Speaker 1 (29:20):
Oh, absolutely or you know whatever.

Speaker 3 (29:23):
But you know they were willing to put that out
there online and have theirbrothers read that stuff, and
you know, then then you got totry to go sit in lines.
And you know there's a goodreason why you don't discuss
religion or politics in Lodge,because it is very divisive and
it just brings turmoil.

(29:43):
So for us to live in peace andharmony.
You, just you don't do stufflike that.
And that's the mess I wastrying to get across to brothers
and to a point I think itworked.
Either that or people stoppedletting me read their Facebook
pages.

Speaker 1 (30:02):
No, no, I think you're right.
I think people took noticebecause you're such a like
everyone loved you.
You just have a personalitythat exudes some kind of a.

Speaker 2 (30:13):
It's a leadership quality.

Speaker 1 (30:14):
It's like an authentic, honest, like you said
, straight shooting person, andthat is something I think
everyone's drawn to when they'rein a leadership role, when they
feel like they're getting.

Speaker 3 (30:25):
I think it was just I've brought it to their
attention that hey, you knowyou're you're possibly creating
a bigger divide, and theythought about it and agreed and
said yeah.

Speaker 2 (30:34):
Yeah, yeah, there's definitely a new culture within,
certainly within our Lodge, ofacceptance and you know that.
You know trying to figure outhow we can best work and agree
attitude we in our Lodge have.
We have a kind of a culturethat says that you know, you can

(30:55):
talk about anything you want inLodge as long as it's done with
gentleness and respect for theother person that you're talking
to, and that has kind of caughton.
And we had a.
We had an esoteric discussiongroup a couple of months ago
where the hottest topics ofreligion and politics and you

(31:16):
name it Sexual, orientation,sexual.

Speaker 1 (31:19):
It came up in a group of Are you guys?

Speaker 2 (31:22):
I think six of our of our lodges in our district were
represented there, severalsitting worshipful masters and
even a couple of EAs in the roomand we had this great flowery
conversation about the hottesttopics that at the end of the
day, everybody remained brothers, no one was offended or hurt,
it was a real conversation, itwas a real conversation.

Speaker 1 (31:44):
It was amazing, it was a conversation, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (31:47):
And I caution anybody listening who thinks, yeah, I'm
going to go try that right now.
I would say stop and stopyourself and remember that you,
any conversation you have within, within the lodge, or as a as a
Mason in public, must beseasoned with that gentleness
and respect for others, andsometimes gentleness and respect

(32:10):
means just keeping your mouthshut.

Speaker 1 (32:12):
Just not saying anything at all.

Speaker 2 (32:14):
You know, because I have to.
The attitude is is that do I domy words?
Have my brother's best interestin heart?
Sometimes it's better just notto say anything and just put
your arms around a brother, youknow, and just agree to disagree
and or just move on tosomething different.
You know.

Speaker 3 (32:29):
Yeah, and unfortunately, in today's
society, we we've lost thatability to to have a
conversation.
You know, we're quick to tobring ourselves down and and we,
you know, respond with insultsor violent um tendencies,

(32:52):
instead of, you know, actuallythinking about what somebody's
saying and then respondingintelligently, we just evolve
right into well, that's justwrong and I hate you and your
opinion doesn't matter to me.

Speaker 1 (33:06):
Yeah, we talked about that, I think, in our last
podcast.
We're going over some of thelecture things that we can talk
about and that was definitelyone of the things that came up
is understanding.
What we like to say is freemasonry gives you training
wheels for life.
Yeah, because the systemteaches you how to behave with
each other, and you almost Imean 98% of the time when you're

(33:28):
in a lodge or around a lodgeand there's brothers, they do
treat each other the right way.
Right, they do, even whenthey're mad, even when they're
not agreeing with each other.
They've learned how to haverespect for each other and like
a little bit of tolerance foreach other, and so we talk about
those are training wheels thatat some point you got to take
off and go out into the realworld and do that too out there,

(33:51):
and that was really the problem.
You'd see someone in lodge andit's a different person than
you'd see online.
Who is that person?
Oh, wow, right.

Speaker 2 (34:01):
Yeah, we've been kind of going through that with a
well-known brother out there andjust absolutely just dumping
all kinds of hateful speech onhis Facebook page.

Speaker 1 (34:12):
I mean it's a little bit.
I've seen much worse.

Speaker 2 (34:14):
Yeah, I mean right, right, but when you know, when,
hey, hey brother, can you maybereconsider?
You know that that kind ofdirection that you're going in,
it's like, if you don't like it,you know, get off my page, get
lost, blah, blah, blah, all thatstuff, and it's just like you
know we're.
Our attitude is is, you know,you're still, you're still an
active Mason and good standing.

(34:36):
Therefore, you know, we owe you, we owe you respect, but we
don't have to listen to it andwe don't have to be a part of it
, you know.
So we, we decided to just moveon from you know, from that that
particular brother, and becausethat's all we can do, you know,
we, we can't.
I, we fighting each otherdoesn't get anybody fighting
with each other doesn't getanybody, I think sometimes just

(34:59):
stop talking if you're not likeis that what you're saying to me
right now?
Because?

Speaker 1 (35:04):
that's a lesson I've learned you can't, you can't
police.

Speaker 2 (35:08):
No, you can't, and I think this this podcast is
dedicated to Chris comes from acenter left viewpoint.
I come from a center, rightviewpoint, and the two of us
have conversations all the timeand I look forward to him.
I look forward to him too.
It's, it's, it's enriching,yeah, and we gain each other's
perspective.
You know, and, and he's, he can.

(35:28):
He has the right to speak intomy life and change my mind, and
I have the same right to speakinto his life.
That only happens through youknow what?
The basics of free Masonry, man, where we treat each other as
brothers.
I have my bet.
I have my brother's bestinterest at heart in everything
that I do, and I mean, I saythis all the time on the podcast

(35:49):
where are you going to find afraternity or an organization
that that teaches that, thatlives that?
You're not going to find itanywhere else, and I think
that's one of the reasons why,as we go online into the digital
marketplace and show peoplewhat Masonry really is, it's
probably one of the reasons whyit's ascending so quickly, in my
opinion.

Speaker 1 (36:10):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (36:11):
You know you get two things.
One is going back to thebrother.
That's that's maybeinappropriate.
Online, you can whisper wisecounsel.
Yeah, that's right, and, as asMason's, that's what we're
taught.
You know, if you see a brotherthat's that's airing, you,

(36:32):
whisper wise counsel.
There's nothing that says he'sgoing to take it.
So you know, you give them theadvice and they take it or leave
it.
So you know, you got to leave itup to them.
But you know, even if there'sonly, you got to remember, going
back to being able to talk toone another that even if there's

(36:56):
only two of you, you'reprobably not going to agree on
everything, right?
So it's okay to disagree.
It's it's how you disagree.
Yeah, you know, I'm surethere's a lot of things that my
neighbor and I don't I don'treally know my neighbor, but I'm
sure there's a lot of thingsthat they do that I don't agree
with.
I'm not going to hate them,right.

Speaker 2 (37:19):
Yeah, and if you saw them in trouble and in need,
you'd help them.

Speaker 1 (37:22):
Regardless.

Speaker 2 (37:23):
Yeah, absolutely Right.
You know you'd put aside any ofthe, you know the those
differences and you and you'dhelp them.
You know, because that's that'sthe right thing to do.
That's what it means to be partof the human family.
You know we've we've so lostthat in this country we are so
divided.
You know the left versus rightruse has, has, kind of has has

(37:44):
infected every aspect of ourlives, you know, and it's just
become this.
You know, you either, if youdon't agree with everything that
I'm about, then I can't, Ican't help you, I can't be a
part of your life, I can't beopen to you, and it's just
absolutely killing us out there.
You know, it's just it's cut offAll, all hope of any kind of

(38:08):
societal healing cannot startuntil we get rid of that and
begin to love our neighbor asourself again.

Speaker 1 (38:15):
Well, more, more and more.
When we talk to these brothers,this is something they really
are looking for from thefraternity.
They'd like oh wait, there's asafe environment where I'm not
going to deal with this stuffthat's out there in the world.
Yeah, I'm definitely interestedin that.
Exactly, I think we have theanswers here in the fraternity.

(38:35):
We've just got to get the wordout more now.

Speaker 3 (38:38):
Right right Because and the, the, the social media
marketing program that you'revery involved in, has done a
wonderful job, you know,spreading the word and and and
kind of putting that light outthere, that says, you know, hey,

(38:59):
come over here and let's, let'stalk, and you know, because
you're probably looking forexactly what, what we need,
right.

Speaker 1 (39:10):
Okay, now let's go there.
So you're talking about theGrand Launch Marketing
Reimbursement Program that youstarted.

Speaker 3 (39:17):
Now, well, the the Grand Launch officers that were
in office when I was GrandMaster we started it.

Speaker 1 (39:25):
Sure, I was there the day I think it was born and you
were definitely leading theconversation, I'll put it that
way.
And and so what I'm curious ofbecause I saw unlike the the
everyday man side of that storymyself firsthand, I saw a Grand
Launch officer that appeared tobe doing something radically

(39:46):
different than had ever beendone and being quite bold and
getting his entire line involvedand them buying into it as well
, which is an important part ofleadership especially in.
Freemasonry.
But what I'm curious of is yourside of that story.
Did you get?
Was it difficult for you tocommunicate your vision to

(40:08):
people, or were they veryaccepting early on?

Speaker 3 (40:11):
and like how difficult was it for you?

Speaker 1 (40:13):
to get that kind of a thing going on from your side.

Speaker 3 (40:17):
Yeah, so when I talked to you know the Grand
Launch officers, and and andother administrators?
And said hey, you know, becauseI don't think there's ever been
a Grand Master that's gone intooffice that says I want to hurt
the fraternity.
You know, we all, we allsacrifice a lot to get in line

(40:42):
and say, okay, one day I'm goingto be the leader, and that
sacrifice is generally I want tohelp the fraternity.
What, what, what can I do tomake the fraternity better?
when I'm out of office than whenI'm going into office, and that
was you know.
I don't know what made me thinkof it or what brought it to you

(41:06):
know, but I saw what you weredoing and I heard stories and I
said, you know, on a biggerscale, that that would help our
fraternity, and I startedtalking to you know, the Deputy
Grand Master, senior GrandWarden, Junior Grand Warden, the
candidates that were, you know,trying to get elected, and they

(41:27):
were you could see it in theireyes when you started talking to
them.

Speaker 1 (41:31):
They were like, oh yeah you know that'd be a great
thing to do so.

Speaker 3 (41:35):
we developed this program.
You know the Grand Secretaryand Grand Treasurer were
involved and you know we all gottogether, put our heads
together and came up with thisprogram.
And then the big question wasto you, brother Chris, you know,
would you be willing to help usout?
And of course you jumped out onboard and said sure, and I

(41:56):
think that it's just grownimmensely and it's doing a great
job.

Speaker 1 (42:02):
It's a great tool that the Grand Lodge is
providing to the lodges thatthey need desperately.

Speaker 2 (42:07):
I think it's a testimony to, to my partner's
tenacity, because I spoke, I'vetalked to him over these couple
of years about this, thisprogram, ever since I became,
you know, involved through hisprogram.
By the way, that's the reason.

Speaker 1 (42:22):
I'm here today.

Speaker 2 (42:24):
But it was that there was no way that this man was
gonna give up.
It was, he was wrestling thatbear every single day and the
bear finally said fine.

Speaker 1 (42:38):
Fine, it was magical for me when most Warshful Foster
shocked me and took me aside.
I was not prepared for theconversation we had, along with
all the other Grand Lodgeofficers.

Speaker 3 (42:50):
Right, and I'm Mr Nobody over here I don't think
it was more of oh my god, this,this guy's gonna ask me to do a
lot of work and it's gonna takea lot of time and effort.

Speaker 1 (43:02):
Honestly the opposite .
I thought.
I thought in that moment whatdid I do wrong?
What did I do to cause this?
Like this is not good.
There's like four guys herewith gold collars.
I don't think this is normaland I was really scared, but
yeah, it turns out it was a goodconversation.

Speaker 2 (43:22):
It was a, it was a course changing conversation.
It really changed the courseand I think I think we'll look
back on that that conversationthat started, the whole thing
that brought you in Chris, andthrough the initiative that most
Warshful Foster put together inhis Grand Lodge, that moment,

(43:42):
that movement was, wasabsolutely gonna be pivotal in
in Florida, masonry, for thestate of Florida and perhaps
even even beyond, and I think italso ties into this this new
movement towards continuing youknow the five to seven year plan

(44:05):
of the Warshful Master not justdoing his thing and then
leaving, but but taking, takingthe mantle of the the five year
plan that he came into andadding another year to it to
push it forward, so that we havethat continuity, you know, and
that's a big.
That's a big conversationhappening right now.
I saw it in Grand Lodge at thecommunication.

(44:27):
That's most.

Speaker 1 (44:27):
Warshful Foster's mark also.
I think he this is what you didhere really did kind of bring
that to the forefront of.
We really need to look atcontinuation of certain programs
that Master set up andcontinuity.
So, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3 (44:44):
And I preached that Our time was.
We've got to stop inventing thewheel.
Every year, we you know, if wegot a good wheel, let's use it.

Speaker 2 (44:52):
So yeah, it's, it's, and I even see that in lodges.

Speaker 3 (44:56):
You know, I talked to the junior wardens and senior
wardens, you know, and hey, whatare you planning on during your
year?
No, I'm not planning onanything.
Maybe I won't get elected.
So, and I think and BrotherChris, you're probably
experiencing this that from thetimes you get installed as a

(45:17):
master to the time you hand thereins over to the next time, it
goes quick.
There's not a whole lot of timeto think and implement stuff
and you really need to startthinking about how are you going
to better your lodge as seniordeacon, junior warden, don't,
don't wait until right beforeyou get elected, because you're

(45:40):
gonna run out of time real quick.

Speaker 1 (45:41):
Yeah, that's right.
Oh, we've seen that firsthand.
There are certain people I'vepersonally know and been friends
with, that started planningtheir year four years in advance
, right, and they lined up like25 huge things they were gonna
wait until their year to do.
And then their year came and itjust exploded because the
reality was right, your plansdon't mean anything.

(46:04):
If you don't, if it's not thelodges plan, your plans aren't
gonna go far, right, and what?

Speaker 2 (46:10):
I see by the lodges plan is that the five to seven
year ongoing plan is makes thatpossible.
Yeah Right, because you and I Iremember coming up to Chris on
June, right around June 1st, andI and I don't know if this is
true, you tell me if I'm I'mright.
But I, I said to him, I said tohim you know how's it feel to

(46:31):
be six months into it, and hekind of looked at me like Holy
crap, it's been six months.

Speaker 1 (46:36):
Yeah, I have I failed already.
If it's six months, sheesh.

Speaker 2 (46:41):
It's like what.

Speaker 1 (46:42):
Wait, it's half over.
Well, even now, like rightafter grand lodge, I've, shortly
after, I feel like and you, I'msure you understand most worst
of all my thinking has changedtowards passing it to the next
year.
Already I'm already trying tomake that transition happen now.
I'm not pushing my any kind ofagenda.

(47:05):
I'm I'm in a phase where I'mlike getting people really ready
to take over tomorrow andmaking sure the continuity is
gonna happen, and I'm alreadytrying to step back from things
because I want it to be a hardtransition when it happens.

Speaker 3 (47:19):
Yeah, and that's a good thing.
You know that the days of well,this is my year, we're gonna do
what I want.

Speaker 1 (47:27):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (47:29):
You know, the lodge is named just because you become
Worshipper Master.
The lodge is still gonna retainhis name.
It doesn't become, you know,jeff Foster, lodge number 267
right, well, I like the sound ofthat watch the Orange Park
watch.
You know I don't, because youcan't have a.

(47:49):
You can't have a large namedafter a living past grandmaster.
So you know I named after you.
You got to do one, three, yeah.
I'm not ready to do yeah, yeah,that's right, that's right yeah,
but anyways, you know a lodge,just because they've elected you
as junior warden, senior warden, where's your master?

(48:12):
And and it even goes to, justbecause you elected as junior
grand warden, senior grandwarden, deputy grandmaster,
grandmaster, you need thepressure, the paternity or a
group as a whole, not just.
You know this is my one year ofa shine mentality, because that

(48:33):
that does nothing for thefraternity and no yeah, that's
right, that's right and, andwe've seen it, we've seen it.

Speaker 2 (48:39):
Sure, we've seen some lodges in real, real dire
straits, because the worst-fellmaster is literally trying to
make it about him.

Speaker 3 (48:48):
It's amazing how much damage you can do in a short
amount of time the shockwavesare literally reaching our
entire doesn't take long, yeahabsolutely all you got to do is
is get in there and aggravate acouple brothers and they stop
coming to lodging, you know.
Then a couple more stop comingto lodge.

Speaker 2 (49:04):
Yeah, you have nobody showing up yeah, it's a
volunteer organization and theyforget that.
You know that I, when I go towork and my boss is, you know,
giving me a hard time aboutsomething, I can't just not come
anymore, right, but here atlodge if it gets really bad,
well I mean, I'm just, I'm justdone.
I didn't sign up for some guyyelling at me or or doing all of

(49:26):
these politics, political movesand all that.
I I have no tolerance for thatand most men don't.

Speaker 1 (49:32):
We didn't come here for that well, it's too easy to
vote with your feet yeah,absolutely exactly.
Just say okay, if this is howit's gonna be, I'll just go
watch TV tonight, no problemyeah, right, yeah, I'll hang out
with my wife and once you dothat two or three times, it's
really hard to get them backyeah, that's true.

Speaker 3 (49:48):
Oh, it is, once you get out of the habit of, you
know, going to lodge, it's realeasy to get into the habit of
not going to lodge, easier thangetting into the habit of
actually showing up.
Yeah, that's right.

Speaker 2 (50:03):
And what?
Then?
You end up with all thebrothers that they pay,
faithfully, pay their dues, butthey just won't walk into the
door.
Yeah, we have a, we have a lotof brothers like, oh yeah, just
they, they faithfully pay theirdues because they they.
There was a time when they werevery active in lodge and
something happened.
Whether I'm not, I don't knowher fault.
It was a personal thing happenedand they still have an

(50:25):
investment in masonry.
That's why they continue to paytheir dues every year.
But they're not right.
They're not coming back inuntil somebody reaches out to
them and says, hey, this iswhat's happening now and I'm
hoping that our lodge has.
We do have an initiative toreach back to active members,
make phone calls to them.
It's, it's.
It's a little difficult, butwe're slowly working through it

(50:47):
and just trying to ask, askbrothers who are faithfully
paying their dues for years andyears but have not come to lodge
.
Hey, man, why?
Why aren't you coming?
And what?
What can we do to get you backin?
You know, and I, it's a worthyinitiative.
We have 380 I think it is 380active members, so it's a big
list to to go back through.

(51:09):
But I know, I know I've signedup to do it, yeah, and a couple
of other brothers have signed upto do it.
We haven't seen a lot of fruitfrom it, but it's definitely
something that's in the works.
Well, what I found?

Speaker 1 (51:18):
cuz I got a list from the secretary and I've made
calls.
Early in my year I had thisgrand idea I'm gonna call every
member personally as the masterand a weekend.
I got through about 15 namesthis year right but you know,
and that's small sampling, thereare two dead brothers, right
right, that we didn't even knowhad passed and their their dues
are still being paid by theirestate right and we're paying

(51:40):
per capita for them still and wenever, you know, did anything
for the family.
It's just that I was reallyupset by that that's upsetting
small sampling that I did.
It even happened yesterday.
I had a 50 year presentationcome from Grand Lodge and I
called the brother and his wifesaid he passed.
He would have loved this but hepassed I.

Speaker 2 (52:01):
Yeah, that's not good yeah, that's not good and
that's that's something thatwe're working through in our
lodge and that's part of theongoing.
Next year, when Zach isWorshipful Master, he'll have to
deal with it as well.
We're just gonna keep.
We're gonna keep workingthrough these issues because it
doesn't stop when Worshipfulburns hands a mantle over to

(52:21):
up-and-coming Worshipful Zach.

Speaker 1 (52:24):
Weebly, weebly, thank you, sorry, zach that goes back
to what more Swishful Fostersaid in the beginning with the
social program.
He cautioned be careful aboutthe Westgate yeah, that's right
so anybody you let into yourlodge can become the master of
that lodge that's right and it'sour responsibility.

(52:45):
We're not advancing people justone chair by one chair.
Because you did the time, youhave to think about who best can
work for the lodge yeah, that'sright exactly and if you see
problems like, recognize it,don't let it just go, because
we've seen that in a few shortmonths a problem in leadership
can do damage, is gonna takeyears to fix.

(53:08):
Yeah absolutely, it can destroya lodge yeah, and I know it's
hard to come out of a hole oncehere in it, and so that could
put him in a tailspin thatreally could take the lodge down
completely if it's not fixedyeah, well, because it's a whole
year and when you say you knowit could destroy a lodge, that's
a very real statement becausethat person is in, in in charge

(53:33):
for an entire year and you cando.

Speaker 2 (53:35):
You can do terminal damage to a lodge in the years
time for sure.

Speaker 1 (53:38):
It's just like our country.
You know, we have a beautifulcountry, a beautiful system of
government, right, almostperfect document that we guide
ourselves by, and through peoplehaving an idea that, oh, it's
fine, it's always gonna be fine,we're always gonna have this.
No, no, to protect it, we mightnot always.
Yeah, it's the same for ourlodges.

(54:00):
I know there's a.
I see so many people that think, oh, I was here for so long,
it's gonna be fine.
I think people say that and itmakes me so mad.
It's not gonna be fine if youthink not.

Speaker 3 (54:09):
I am.

Speaker 2 (54:10):
I visited go ahead good.

Speaker 3 (54:13):
I'm sorry but you can .
You can find, you know, go tosome of the lodges that have
real small numbers after me.
You know that were theretowards the beginning of
remasonry in Florida the GrandLodge and just visit yeah, and
you know attrition, and you knowI'm trying to think of another

(54:40):
word.
But as masons we get into a rut.
You know, we elect somebody tothe east and and they don't.
They don't want to do this andthey don't want to do that.
And you know the next thing,you know it, you've lost what
you're supposed to be doing inthe lodge and it becomes, you

(55:03):
know, just another meeting,right, and the next thing, you
know it, your membership is notshowing up, just for another
meeting yeah and we've kind oflost that a little bit in our in
masonry.

Speaker 1 (55:17):
We need to get back to it it's the culture, really
the exactly we need to, and thatI mean this is why I wanted to
talk to you so bad.
You get it, you get it we.
You know that I, when I wascoming up in the line, I thought
people were crazy for startingto plan their year years in
advance.
I'm like, look at how fastthings are changing.

(55:38):
I'm not gonna have the samelogic in four years that I'm
sitting in today and I don'teven know if I'll make it there.
So every idea I had, I broughtit up to whoever was the master.
We tried to do it.
So in my when it came time forme to be in the chair, I had no
agenda because you know, everyidea I had, we already tried or
implemented yeah and so my wholepush for our lodge was just to

(56:01):
maintain the pureness of freemasonry as much as we possibly
could, and that's what we wantedfor our line this year and and
to start our five-year plan wasto just get back to the most
basic tenants of free masonry,that we're gonna love each other
, we're gonna be passionateabout free masonry and we're
always gonna act like masons,and I think that's where you
have to start, right, you guysstart at the beginning.

(56:22):
You got to deal with the culturebefore you can deal with the
lodge building or the membershipproblems.
If your culture is not right,you can't fix anything else.
That's right yeah, and.

Speaker 2 (56:32):
And culture is changed by by by changing hearts
and minds.
That's how you change exactly.
You can't mandate it from onhigh, because it's not gonna
work.
You're only gonna reinforcepeople's stubbornness by trying
to make them do something thatthey don't understand through,
through clearly defining what itis that you'd like to do and

(56:54):
engaging people where they're at.
You know, with that, with thatmindset of hey, this is our
lodge, do you do?
One of the questions we askpeople all the time is do you
care if your great-grandson is amember of this lodge?
Would that be something thatyou would work towards?
Does it matter to you if yourlodges here in 25 years?
Does that matter to you?

(57:14):
And that's, that's part, that'sthe mindset and culture we're
trying to instill in people.
It's like this this is yourlodge, but it's also your
great-grandchildren's lodge.

Speaker 1 (57:25):
If you'll have it, if you'll work towards it, you
know, yep yep, this is beautiful, beautiful gift to humanity
that, like it, takes a lot ofwork to keep it protected that's
right, and we're we're actuallykind of behind the eight ball.

Speaker 2 (57:39):
We want to keep it protected, but we have to first.
We have to rebuild it, so tospeak.
You know we have to get back tothat place where you know our
lodge 147.
If you look at the newspaperclippings of the 19, you know
1950s and 60s.
That lodge was in the paperevery weekend man.

Speaker 1 (58:00):
They were active in everything.
Yeah, the mayor was a mason,yeah of the of our lodge.

Speaker 2 (58:06):
You know, and it just it's, it's not that way anymore
.
There's a famous picture in our, in our local newspaper from
the late 60s where the themasonic parade was going down
Main Street and it was massiveand everybody came out to, you
know, to participate in thismasonic, you know, the lodge

(58:26):
parade and and and it was activein the community and stuff and
and we, we got to get back there, we got to get away from hiding
behind all of themisinformation and cowering to
it.
You know we're, we're real boldon on telling people what
masonry truly is.
You know that we're not aconspiracy, we're not.
You know, we're not this, we'renot not any of that stuff it's

(58:47):
one of the main missions of ourpodcast, really we that's right.

Speaker 1 (58:51):
Every time we record, I imagine I'm talking to
somebody that doesn't knowanything about free masonry.
That's right.
Yeah, and try to make surebecause it is for masons.
Obviously they want to talkabout esoteric stuff, but in my
mind, you know, when I wasbefore I was initiated, I
consumed all the stuff I couldto try to understand it better.
Right, and there were certainYouTube masons who were making

(59:15):
content for people like me thataren't masons, to tell them
things that they, right,understand, and so I I think
that's really a good way we cantry to get ahead of that a
little bit.
We kid, because there's a lotwe can be open about absolutely,
and a lot of brothers don'tunderstand that.

Speaker 3 (59:30):
You know that.
Oh well, we're a secret society, that we're not really a secret
society.
We have secrets that societydoesn't know about right but you
know, there's a lot oforganizations that have stuff
that that only members knowpretty much every organization.

(59:53):
If I think that, yeah, there'salways something that's not
public right, but you know freemasonry is it's been around for
so long that you know there's alot of conspiracy theories and a
lot of this information.
I think it's only because we'vebeen around for so long.

(01:00:14):
Yeah, and there's a lot ofinformation that people should
know.

Speaker 2 (01:00:17):
Yeah, and we're in a day and age where a conspiracy
theory goes a long way onlineEverybody wants to see.
Oh my goodness, lots of clicksand views, Lots of clicks and
stuff, Subscribe, and I knowthat the conspiracy stuff is not
helpful for our cause, but Igotta be honest and I say this
all the time.
I just I kind of dig it.

Speaker 1 (01:00:38):
It is a double-edged sword.

Speaker 2 (01:00:39):
I kind of like the fact that they look at me a
little mysterious.

Speaker 1 (01:00:42):
I got some family members up in North.

Speaker 2 (01:00:43):
Carolina, who just totally don't get it, and I'm
more than happy to let them keepthinking what they're thinking
Just give them a little wink.
I was up there visiting and wewere getting breakfast and the
one family member I'm thinkingabout there happened to be a
brother Mason, in line to pay toleave the restaurant.
I could tell because he had atattoo on his back calf.

(01:01:06):
So I went up to him and I shookhis hand and just said brother,
it's good to see you, brother,it's good to see a brother up
here in North Carolina.
We kind of did the chest bumpand shake thing as I walked away
.
I could see them looking at melike what did you just do?

Speaker 1 (01:01:22):
Your family, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:01:25):
A couple of extended family members because they
think they truly buy into thisentire Illuminati thing.
It's like you know what I'mgonna.
Let you go, go ahead.
I can't believe that, eventhough you've known me since you
were a child.
You've known me since you werea little kid.
You know my faith, you know myconduct, but go ahead.

(01:01:45):
You can listen to the onlineguys, as opposed to listening to
your uncle whatever.

Speaker 3 (01:01:50):
There you go Along the same lines what I was
telling in my early days Masonrypeople would kind of approach
me and talk about that same lineof thinking.
You know, oh, you guys are theIlluminati.
You know you have this greattreasure map somewhere and I

(01:02:13):
would always just kind of youknow, look at them and go.
So you know George Washingtonwas a Mason, ben Franklin was a
Mason.
We've had astronauts that weremasons.
Do you think that those peoplewould be as great as they are if
they really followed thoselines of what you're thinking?

(01:02:36):
They are, yeah, right, and youknow they kind of.
You know you could sit in alittle like flicker in their
eyes.

Speaker 2 (01:02:44):
Yeah, yeah, and maybe it's true.
It is.
It is absolutely true.
And I mean fantastical thinking.
It kind of lives in that onlineorb, right?
So this fantasticalconspiratorial thinking and you
bring it into your head and itlives in your head until you
meet someone like us and we askquestions like that.

(01:03:06):
Think about what you're saying.
You know for a second, you know.

Speaker 1 (01:03:12):
Let me just bring two simple facts.
You've known me forever.
All of a sudden, I startedeating babies.

Speaker 2 (01:03:16):
one day All of a sudden, I'm eating babies and
doing things with goats.
And it's like, and you can justsee them deflate a little bit.
There's a little bit ofdisappointment, like where, wait
, wait?
You mean it's not a conspiracy,you mean it's just a bunch of
men trying to lift each other upso to better society and
themselves and their families.

Speaker 1 (01:03:37):
That's no fun, what is?

Speaker 2 (01:03:38):
that I don't care about that.

Speaker 1 (01:03:42):
It's true, I have family like yours and it's fun
in a way.
I'm sorry, it's just a littlebit fun.
You can't really engage peoplethat have a preset.
You know, it's really not wiseto, in my opinion.
No, you're right, you don'twant to enter into it, because
then?

Speaker 2 (01:03:56):
you're just, you become like them.
Yeah, that's what it says inProverbs right, if you argue
with people like that, you tendto become like them.
If somebody's watching you, theword is fool.
That's a pretty harsh word.
But if somebody is watching youtrying to argue with a foolish
person, that person is going tosay to themselves look, there's

(01:04:16):
two fools.

Speaker 3 (01:04:17):
Right, and you don't want that Exactly yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:04:21):
It's a lot more fun because they'll you know, I got.
I was obsessed with learningthe ritual work.
After I learned all that andgot all the Prophesie cards, I
was like what else can I do inmy life?
So I started to learn the piano, something I not really learned
, but I memorized.

Speaker 2 (01:04:38):
Oh he learned it.

Speaker 1 (01:04:38):
I didn't learn it, I just memorized.
I kept the memory thing going.
And my wife's family, you knowthey have a piano in their house
.
So one day I they know I'm nota musical guy, but I sat down
and played a little bit ofclassical music, you know, and
they were like whoa did theFreemasons make you do that?

(01:04:59):
That's the kind of stuff I getfrom them, Like they'll just
randomly and they're talkingabout, like you know, the cost
of that, uh, avocados, and thenbe like what did the Freemasons
think about that?
Wow.

Speaker 2 (01:05:11):
Well, when we're sacrificing the Virgin, it's
important to have avocados.

Speaker 3 (01:05:15):
Exactly, you got to have fresh avocados.

Speaker 1 (01:05:18):
It's just amazing what people think out there.
And you know, like you said,it's just, it's a little fun in
a way.
You don't really engage.
I'm not going to representFreemasonry to people.
No, that's right.

Speaker 2 (01:05:29):
It's, it's.
There's a saying in the, in thescripture, that talks about
casting your pearls.
This is another harsh saying, aharsh word I don't mean it the
way it sounds, but casting yourpearls among swine, in other
words, taking what is precious?
taking what is precious to youand is important to you and and
casting it before people whohave absolutely no desire to

(01:05:49):
understand it and no concernwhatsoever for how much you care
about it.
It's unwise.
Don't do it.
Yeah, you know, just just be,be discerning and take for for
Chris and I and I know you aswell most worshipful Masonry is
important to us and we're verypassionate about it and we, we
think it has, it has somethingto offer society.

(01:06:11):
So to to to cast it beforepeople who simply blow it off or
want to disrespect you or it isnot, it's not wise and we don't
, we don't engage that.
We, I, I love them.
They're like I was talkingabout my family members.
I love them to death.
I do anything for them buthonestly, I am not in the market
to share with them somethingthat they're simply not going to

(01:06:31):
, they're not going tounderstand or want to understand
in any ways.
You know.
So it's, it's.
I don't know.
I don't know why I got off onthat rabbit.

Speaker 3 (01:06:38):
Well, well, and so, if I can, yeah you can.
That is why, along that line ofthinking, why we don't solicit
membership and Freemasonry, wewait for somebody to seek it out
, because if, if they're lookingfor it, those are the type of

(01:07:03):
people we want, because they'regoing to embrace our way of
thinking.
If you try to convert and thatmay not be the best word to use-
if you're going to try to, youknow, to, to to convince
somebody that doesn't want itthat this is who we are and this
is what we do.

(01:07:24):
They're not going to reallyaccept it, right, and that.
That that's why you know, withwith what you were just saying,
that's why we wait untilsomebody comes to us and says
you know, tell me about Masonry.

Speaker 2 (01:07:39):
Right, because then they're in a, they have the
mindset and the humility to tobe taught.
They're teachable.
At that moment, you know, andthen, and then you know.
You just simply share the factswith them.
You know about what it truly isand it works.
It really does work, because Imean, we see all kinds of guys
coming in, yeah To us, and butthey're very desirous of

(01:08:02):
understanding how Freemasonrycan help them understand the
world better.
Right, right, yeah, and it's.
It's like you said, becausethey had a sighting.

Speaker 1 (01:08:09):
So it's like we're so lucky.
It's just wave after wave ofthese people who are such high
quality people.

Speaker 2 (01:08:15):
Yeah, we're.
We're making new Masons everymonth.
It's amazing.

Speaker 1 (01:08:18):
Yeah, I couldn't have imagined this, like four years
ago.
Yeah, it would have beenunthinkable what we're doing, oh
yeah, what we're seeing.

Speaker 2 (01:08:25):
It's, it's because the the program is, is it
initiated or has kind of stemmedfrom?
Uh, wershful Burns here Most.

Speaker 1 (01:08:35):
Wershful Most.

Speaker 2 (01:08:36):
Wershful Foster here, but the it's kind of we're at
the fountainhead here and, uh,we get the full benefit of the
system.
And, of course now Chris hasbeen blessed with a lot of
brothers who have come alongsidehim.
Yeah, john Schaefer in one ofthem shout out to John, who has
really just picked up the mantle, on on on doing the Sunday open

(01:08:56):
house and uh, you know callingthese brothers every week, every
time we get, we get names, youknow, off off the system.
He calls them right away, heinvites them down, they come
down and he, he, he schedulespeople to join him, like I was
down there the other day withhim and they sit and talk and
give him a tour and give him a,you know, a basic understanding

(01:09:18):
of what it is, what they canexpect, and then hands them a
petition and uh, he's, he's likeuh, 80% of the petitions he
hands out come back.

Speaker 1 (01:09:28):
I mean, he's happens when you work a program properly
.
The grand lawn these are thetools grand lawn is providing us
.
All we have to do is work them.

Speaker 2 (01:09:35):
Yeah, and then and then, continuing along that same
line, what, what?
What happened was we just gotbombarded and you know where I'm
going with this.
We got bombarded with newpetition, with new candidates
and all of a sudden, we neededmentors, we needed, we needed
catechism instructor, we needed,we needed to engage them, we
needed to do masonry correctlyso that it would engage them

(01:09:56):
more and more into the ritualwork and into the, into the line
and all of the, the servingside of it.
So we've had to, and we have,go back to creating the, the
proper Masonic structures, rightBack to the basics, back to the
basics within our house, tomake sure that when those men
come in, um, they're properlymentored, uh, the catechism

(01:10:18):
instruction is done correctlyand properly, um, the degree
work is um is our, our degree,our degree work is getting
pretty good.
I gotta say it's it's reallystarting to, it's really
starting to get, get good, we'vegot um, our, our, our degree
team.

Speaker 1 (01:10:33):
Well, we have a state competition team.
That the competition team islargely made up of some 147.
Yeah, some 147, which is reallyanyways.
The point is is right.
I know that we're just bragging.
Now we're just bragging.

Speaker 2 (01:10:45):
Well, I, I can't brag .
I'm, I am, they stuck me theystuck me in as junior warden
because it's very easy in the EAUm, but I am the turkey flying
with these Eagles Cause thereare.

Speaker 1 (01:10:58):
Nothing is easy when it comes to competition.
No, it's not easy, I'm notsaying it's easy.

Speaker 2 (01:11:02):
I'm not saying it's easy, but I am thankful that I
was not asked to be, you know,senior, senior deacon or
something that requires actualskill, because I am.
I am struggling, but you know,we've got.
We've got uh uh, rightworshipals and uh past uh, uh,
deputy grandmasters and inchpast instructors and um, and

(01:11:25):
then there's me the two yearmaster Mason.
So it's, it's.
I am honored, don't get mewrong.
I'm absolutely honored and I amdoing my best to step up and
make sure I don't let anyonedown, but it's, it's a.
Really, this is a clearly arabbit trail.
I'm going to um, the, but it's,it's.
It's clearly been just anabsolute privilege and and
absolutely just uh, caused me towant to be in degree, do degree

(01:11:49):
work more and more and more,and I'm going to try to tie this
back to where we were is thatthe, the degree work, uh being
involved within the lodge and dothe lodge work is what makes
Masonry.
Uh, what makes Masonry exciting?
And it's like I've said beforeon the show it's like the.
The cure for Masonry is Masonry.

Speaker 1 (01:12:11):
Sure, you know doing Masonry correctly.
There's nothing that needs tobe invented, or?

Speaker 2 (01:12:15):
we don't need to invent anything.
Just do it right, exactly, and,and they will come.
You know, because it's awesome,it's exactly what men want, you
know exactly.

Speaker 1 (01:12:24):
May I ask you some personal questions before we go?
Sure, not too terribly personal, but I'm I'm really curious.
Uh, before you became a Mason,which for you was, uh, 2004, if
I'm correct Uh-huh, and so youhad.
You had a life.
Obviously you lived a full lifebefore you joined Freemasonry.

(01:12:47):
Was there anything in yourpre-Masonic life that you think
really set you up for what youbecame in Masonry, working
through all the chairs, you knowthe district, and then becoming
a grand lodge officer andworking through the grand line
and serving as the grand masterand now, for the rest of your
life, being an ambassador forFreemasonry, like before you

(01:13:09):
became a Mason?
Was there anything like anevent that you can look at and
say I think this really, likewas the start of what I was
going to become is a Mason?

Speaker 3 (01:13:21):
So I don't know.
I mean, it was always, I guess,predetermined that I was going
to join the fraternity.
My great grandfather was aMason, was master of Maddoine

(01:13:41):
Lodge in New Jersey.
My grandfather was a Mason, mydad was a Mason.
So you know, just following inlines and I look back and I say
you know, my dad, um, he was oneof those guys that if he told

(01:14:05):
you he was going to do something, he did it.
There was never any questionabout whether or not it was
going to be done.
And when I was young, I neverreally, you know that never
occurred to me, that neverreally, you know, popped into my
head.
As you know, he didn't needsomething in writing, you know,

(01:14:25):
to say he was going to do it.
If he shook your hand and saidthat, you know, I'll sell you my
house for $10 and he shook yourhand, you were buying his house
for $10.
And it took a little later onin life for me to realize, you
know, those traits in him.
But as I grew up, as I matured,I was like, you know, I'm going

(01:14:49):
to do it.
I saw those traits and I waslike those are the traits that I
want to anything and I can sayright now, my dad will tell you
I was a rotten kid.
Well, exactly, you know, andone of his favorite sayings is
you know, there were times wherehe wouldn't even trust me to

(01:15:11):
count nails in a barrelsomewhere.
You know, but I, I Think youknow, join in the military and
and having a good work ethicinstilled in me, and you know
the some of the traits that thatget instilled to you Serving in
the military.
You know you haveresponsibility and now you have

(01:15:33):
authority and responsibility.
You know, coming up and and oneof the and I'm gonna digress a
little bit but one of the thingsthat I was I will eternally be
sorry for was that I didn't seekmasonry out while I was in the
military.
Earlier, that you know, Imissed out on a lot, but I

(01:15:56):
didn't know.
You know Cuz yeah, my dad's anold-school Mason and you just
you don't talk about masonry.
So I never really knew what Iwas missing Until after I got it
, and then it was like, man, Iwish that I sought this out
earlier.
But you know, I always thought,you know, I was in the military

(01:16:17):
, I didn't have time to tobelong to an organization and do
anything, because I didn't know, I was ignorant.
And and I tell people anybodythat'll listen.
You know, if you ever thoughtabout being a Mason, you need to
seek it out as early aspossible, don't.
Don't wait until Till later onin life.

Speaker 2 (01:16:39):
Yeah, I agree with that?
No 100%.

Speaker 1 (01:16:41):
Ever since I've joined, there's been people that
I'm like a Drawn to, like amoth to a flame, because they're
just great men.
There's something about them.
They're just great men and likeyou're talking about.
You can smell authenticness andthat kind of like Inserity.
And all of those men.

(01:17:02):
When I and I do ask them, isthere anything you regret or you
wish you would have done?
And they always say what youjust said I wish I had started
sooner yeah, that's absolutely.
They all say that I just wish Ihad started sooner because this
has been the greatest thing inmy life.
Yep and they've served so muchand given so much.
But all they talk about, likeyou, is what you've gotten out

(01:17:24):
of it, what it's given you, andall I see is, wow, you've
sacrificed a lot.
I think that's the beauty ofyour time and you know a lot of
sacrifice for something and andthat's what I think the outside
people don't get is you'regetting so much from it.

Speaker 2 (01:17:42):
Yeah, that's right.

Speaker 1 (01:17:43):
It's not money You're not getting your.
I'm sure you haven't enrichedyourself as a Mason or through
Mason not financially.

Speaker 3 (01:17:53):
I know, but it's, it's all been a labor of love
and you know it's.
I Would give until I can notgive anymore.

Speaker 2 (01:18:01):
Yeah, yeah, and it's it like, like we say all the
time, masonry is what men arelooking for.
It's a, it's a you know.
It's a band of brothers.
It's you know.
It's us holding each other upsomething greater than ourselves
, and you know our ritual workand the things we do, the
teachings, the, the workingtools, the understanding and
enlightenment that Masonrybrings to a man's mind, within

(01:18:25):
the context of being surroundedby brothers who are like-minded,
is exactly what men are lookingfor.
It's how God created us.
He did not create us to bealone, fighting by ourselves,
because a soldier who fights byhimself is is going to die there
.
It's a guaranteed fact.
But if you are strong withinthat regiment of Now, I'm

(01:18:45):
talking like a military guy.
I don't know how or why, butyeah, we're stronger together, I
feel it.
I was in, I was sitting and wewere doing an EA degree.
The other day, man and I wassitting there in my chair as
part of the degree team and Iswear I could become emotional.

Speaker 1 (01:19:02):
I was over it, yeah, and it was just like I love this
, some special man.

Speaker 2 (01:19:07):
Yeah, I love these brothers, they love me, and this
is what when the ritual work isgood, you know you're.

Speaker 1 (01:19:12):
You're getting an experience that hundreds of
years of people have gottenright just as good as you did.
Yeah the magical about gettingto be part of it.

Speaker 2 (01:19:20):
Yeah, yeah, so you recognize that.
So if you're, if you'relistening to this and if you've
listened this long, a good onyou, you're.
You're a hero to us.

Speaker 1 (01:19:29):
They'll listen for hours because most wishful
fosters that's.
That's right.
That's right.
Yeah, we have the ultimate hook, but yeah, if you're listening
and you're not a Mason.

Speaker 2 (01:19:39):
Please we say it all the time go down to your local
lodge and talk to them and findout what they're about.
Feel the energy for yourselffeel the energy for yourself,
get involved.
And if you are currently aMason and you're saying to
yourself, well, I don't see anyof that stuff at my lodge,
there's a reason for thatbecause you haven't done
anything about it yet, so getexactly get busy.
If you see the need, be the need, that's.

(01:20:02):
If you see it, be it, go, do it, get inside your lodge and and
make some positive changes andreach out to us.
That's what this podcast hereis for.
We will help you.
We know some, we know, we knowsome big shots, man I got people
, man.

Speaker 1 (01:20:18):
So here's another one for you.
That was, and thank you forthat, but you okay, we're
talking to a man who is amilitary guy, has a family, join
the fraternity, literallyworked through every chair.
He was the secretary of thelodge.
For what was it?
Six years.
God bless you sure.
Yep, yep became a districtdeputy Committeeman right, went

(01:20:40):
to the grand line.
Like he did everything the hardway, the way you're supposed to
do it.
Earn the respect of everyone.
Blaze trails with the socialmedia campaign.
You really, I think, wereinstrumental in part of what is
happening with the Prince HallSituation.
Oh, god bless you.
Like he's done just so much.
And now, as a past grandmaster,the part that pains me is that

(01:21:02):
these Men have a sense of I needto not I need to go into the
background and be in the shadowsnow and it's like such a Loss
of the fraternity.
I think that you can't be asengaged as I wish you were and
out there, but now you're hereon our podcast and I would.
I'm, you know, you are a realperson, you're a man and you're

(01:21:26):
you love this fraternity and youknow potentially everybody in
the state of Florida that maybeare masons, but don't even go to
lodge, don't go to theGrandmaster visits.
You have an opportunity to talkdirectly to them.
Is there anything you would sayto those masons out there?

Speaker 3 (01:21:43):
The only thing that I would, I would encourage, is,
if you are not Passionate aboutfree masonry, do a little
self-reflection and ask yourselfwhy have has that flame
extinguished itself?

(01:22:03):
Because you were obviouslypassionate enough to seek it out
.
What happened to get that flameto go out?
Why?
Why did it go out?
And then do something Aboutthat reason and see if you can't
get that flame reignited andand make your lodge and

(01:22:27):
Freemasonry better.

Speaker 2 (01:22:29):
Hmm.
I love that yeah that's rightand I like the the word self.
Do some self-reflection.
Yeah, take it, yeah absolutely.

Speaker 3 (01:22:37):
I mean, where are you ?

Speaker 2 (01:22:38):
at.
Where are you at with this?
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (01:22:40):
Stop pointing fingers at shadows and other things and
look at yourself.
What's, yeah, what's got youupset?
Was it just a little thing?
Was it just a person?
Was it a personal situation?

Speaker 2 (01:22:51):
Yeah because I can guarantee you, if that's you out
there, you're needed.
We need you back.
Yes, we need you back.

Speaker 3 (01:22:58):
Absolutely.

Speaker 2 (01:22:59):
We need you, good and whole and strong, and back
amongst your brothers and andpushing forward, because our
country I Masonry has somethingto offer this hurting country
and and I think that's a that's,there's just no denying it, and
it's, it's, it's gonna happen,we're going that way, it's

(01:23:21):
sending, it's growing and and wewill see, we will see it back
to its four oh absolutely.

Speaker 1 (01:23:28):
Well, I'm really encouraged because I've started
to get an opportunity to travelmore.
I'm getting invited now tomaster mason Associations to
speak about the Grand Lodgemarketing program.

Speaker 2 (01:23:37):
Nice and you nice.

Speaker 1 (01:23:39):
Yeah, I was just at district 21, which is a huge
district 14 lodges, wow.

Speaker 3 (01:23:45):
Yes, they take over a lot of square miles.

Speaker 1 (01:23:48):
Yeah, it's massive, that district, that poor, poor,
right Worshipal Simpson has tomake four visits to 14 lodges
this year and they are not closetogether.
I'm like I Doing an amazing job, but what really impressed me
about that is this was asomewhat hostile crowd of the
ideas that I was talking about,and the right worship will

(01:24:10):
literally stood up and saidlisten guys.
Nobody's asking the realquestions that you want to ask.
Ask them.
He doesn't.
He's not gonna get offended,you're not gonna upset him, he's
not gonna melt, save what youwant to say.
And it turned into an hour-longdiscussion at that.
Master mason associate the mostpassionate brothers master stood
up and these guys have beenworking tirelessly for like a

(01:24:34):
decade, turning their lodgesaround, almost single-handedly
some of them, and it's reallyencouraging because you see how
passionate the people are allOver the place about free
masonry and there's just, itjust takes like one really
passionate person to completelyturn around a lodge.

Speaker 2 (01:24:49):
Yeah, that's right.
Well, rally people.
I'm looking at one.

Speaker 1 (01:24:53):
I'm talking about the brothers of district 21.
Personally it was.
It was amazing to me to seethat and it gives me hope,
because the the one thatimpressed me the most.
You know he was pretty Hostile,he was not hostile.
He had no problems telling meto my face what he thought about
my lodge in the program.
He said your lodges broken,brother, let me tell you and

(01:25:14):
it's because he didn'tunderstand right, that's why he
said that.
So I had an opportunity tocommunicate with a guy who had
an impression that was wrong andwe talked about.
I said, brother, my lodges andbroken.
Because he said, yeah, 350members, and you only got 30
people on the sidelines.
That's horrible.
I got 30 members and I have ahigher percentage and I'm like
that's great, but my lodges andbroken.

(01:25:35):
We've lost half our membershipin the last decade.
We had 600 members, right, yeah, right, I'm in the same
situation as you.
It's just a different scale ofthe problem and I'm the same as
you.
I'm, you know, one guy overhere trying to change things and
it's not easy and you know westarted to bond over the same.

Speaker 2 (01:25:52):
We're the same right, we're the same.
The only thing that was lackingwas an understanding.
An understanding, yeah, which?
Which miscommunications?

Speaker 1 (01:25:59):
and misunderstandings .
Right, love it.
And when we talk about thingsand that's one thing I really
have to say right, where's fullsimpson?
Really impressed me.
He, you can't shy away from theproblems.
You got to stay dead in theface together and talk about
them.
Yeah, the only way they're evergonna change.
Yeah, pretend they don't exist,you're gonna have them forever.

Speaker 2 (01:26:21):
Yeah, they'll take on a life of their own.

Speaker 3 (01:26:22):
You know which is always negative and and Put a
little light on you.
Now that you have spread thatlight and Shown them, it's only
gonna take one watch.
One lot is gonna start startdoing good Yep and the other
lots, you're gonna go Wow lookat that watch.

(01:26:45):
And they're gonna follow inline, yeah and the next thing,
you know it, we're gonna be backto 80,000 members, yeah, a
hundred thousand members, andit's gonna be because of the
effort and time that you'reputting in.
Yeah, that's right.

Speaker 1 (01:27:00):
I mean I was telling those guys like this isn't a
silver bullet.
Okay, there's no one answer toevery problem, but this is a
valuable tool right at theground.
Lodge is gifting you and if youdon't use it You're really
doing your own lodge intoservice.
That's right.
I think those guys that werereally passionate and Worried
about some of the aspects of ityou know they're worried you're

(01:27:20):
gonna let in riff raft andthat's up to, that's up to the
individual Lodge.

Speaker 2 (01:27:24):
You know it's like we said starting off you the
Westgate man, you got it.
We're not.
We're not telling you to takethe gate down, man.
What we're telling you is to isto, is to open, open up a
little bit, get some informationout there.
You know the men who havealready.
There are men out there whohave Theoretically raised their
hand and said yes, yeah, yes.

(01:27:45):
I'm, I'm, I'm thinking aboutsomething along the lines of
masonry and we're just, and thisprogram just gets us in front
of them.

Speaker 1 (01:27:53):
That's it.

Speaker 2 (01:27:53):
They've already they're already of a mindset,
but they just don't have theinformation.

Speaker 1 (01:27:59):
That's all this is and the thing that those
brothers don't realize, and Iwas able to successfully
communicate to some of them is.
You know, when you're in asituation where you only have 30
members, you're going to becomedesperate at some point.
Yeah, that's right, and youwill start taking anybody that
can fog up a mirror, like mostwishful fosters.
That's right.

Speaker 2 (01:28:18):
Well, and so the great point, great point.

Speaker 3 (01:28:23):
You got to remember that Back in the early days
Lodges were small memberships.
It was not unheard of for youknow a Person to be master
several times because you knowwe didn't have mass

(01:28:44):
Transportation.
It wasn't easy to get into avehicle and travel, you know, 40
miles to a lodge.
Yeah, so you were.
You're pretty much confined tojust your local area and those
lodges that are small have moreof a family feel to them.

(01:29:06):
Oh yeah, if that's not the rightwords, I'm sorry, but no,
you're um, but you knowtypically what your experience
and where you have 300 membersor 380 members and and you get
30 guys that's about Normal forlodges in Florida as they get
about 10% their membership thatattend, yeah, you know meetings

(01:29:30):
and and do work in a lodge yeah,so that you know it.
You got different situations to, because 21 is kind of more of
a rural Right area.
Yeah, we're, you're in more ofa city area.

Speaker 1 (01:29:48):
That definitely was a topic of discussion, right yeah
.

Speaker 3 (01:29:53):
Well, good, yeah, I'm glad that was a topic of
discussion because you know,it's just different environments
.
Yes, you know you're the same,but you're not the same.

Speaker 1 (01:30:03):
Yeah, I mean, and that's one of the great things
about the fraternity is thatevery lodge, although we're all
masons, can have its owndifferent culture and feel of
course absolutely and that'sokay, yeah, because you know it
is, absolutely it is.
Your lodge should reflect yourcommunity, right?
Yeah, that's right.
That's the beauty of it.

Speaker 2 (01:30:23):
Yeah, that's the beauty and that's the beauty of
in visiting other lodges withinyour district and and outside of
your district, being that,traveling, mason, because you
experience, you know all thedifferent cultures, all the
different, you know People.
I, I want to get out there.
I wanted to go with you.
So bad, but I had motor corethat night I couldn't go.
So I'm definitely going on thenext one, yeah, well.

Speaker 1 (01:30:46):
I will not be denied.
Yeah, we have another onecoming up in another district
and I'm really excited about itbecause these, like I tell them,
I'm not running for any officehere.
I'm doing this because I lovethe fraternity, like you guys,
right.

Speaker 3 (01:30:58):
There, you go?

Speaker 1 (01:30:59):
How do we?
How do we move the needle?
This is one of the ways and andyeah, so, that being said, you
everything I just said to youyou spoke to the Everyday
brother out there who's notengaged.
What would you say to thebrother who is in the line,
who's getting his MLT trainings?
He's about to become an electedofficer here in the next year

(01:31:20):
or two.
What would you say to thatbrother?
Any advice or message you'dhave for those, for those guys
who are actually about to becomeleaders in our fraternity in
the coming years?

Speaker 3 (01:31:33):
The only thing I would say is remember why you're
in that position.
When I was in the Navy, when wegot, we got promoted.
And then when you make the jumpfrom E6 to E7, you know we

(01:31:53):
would change uniforms.
We would go from the workinguniform to more of it tacky
administrative office personneluniform.
You weren't down in thetrenches Digging the dirt, but
we were always taught when youmade that jump, don't forget who

(01:32:15):
got you there.
You didn't get yourself there.
The people that are around youWere the ones that got you to
where you're at.
So just remember when, when youbecome Orishful master of a
lodge, you didn't get yourselfthere.
You were helped along the wayby the brothers of your lodge

(01:32:35):
and you need to be there forthem.
It don't so, most fortunate.
Well, turlington, my littlebuddy, when he got elected or
was was was going through theline or Trying to get elected,

(01:32:56):
he had a conversation with thisvirtual Bob.
Trump and I used to like to kidaround with it, because Bob
Trump told him make sure thesame size hat that you wear now
Fit your head when you becomegrandmaster.
Of course I, of course I alwaystease, tease my little buddy

(01:33:18):
that you know you went out andbought a hat.
There was two sizes bigger atthat time.
You know that I thought thatwas great Philosophical words of
wisdom, that yeah, you know tomake sure that your head didn't
grow so large that you know, youforget the purpose of why

(01:33:38):
you're there.

Speaker 1 (01:33:39):
Yeah, which is really to serve, is what you're saying
, that's exactly.
Yeah, right, do you know right?
Wishful-duck dobs.

Speaker 3 (01:33:47):
I do great man.

Speaker 1 (01:33:49):
We interviewed him and he said the exact same thing
you just said.

Speaker 2 (01:33:53):
What's right that?

Speaker 1 (01:33:53):
question yeah, that's amazing, good man, think alike.
Yeah, that's right, great man,take a like.

Speaker 2 (01:34:00):
Well, on that note, most worshipful foster, we we
want to thank you for for takingthe time out to sit with us for
this hour and a halfconversation about the craft
that we love, and yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:34:17):
I.

Speaker 2 (01:34:17):
I just I am, as a young I'm, you know, I'm a
two-year master, mason, I think,maybe a little longer but not a
lot miles.
But I've had a lot of greatexperiences and I've met a lot
of men that I highly respect,you being one of them, and I
just I, just I echo what we saida little bit earlier.

(01:34:38):
I just wish I had done this somuch earlier in my life, and I
think all three of us wouldagree when we say to anyone
listening Don't wait, don't wait, investigate free masonry and
and get yourself, get yourselfinvolved and be a part of what's
happening here because it's it,it, it.
You're surrounding yourself With, with great men who have done

(01:35:02):
great things, man and and you,you will never regret it,
brother, chris, anything thatyou'd like to add before we sign
off with most worship willfoster.

Speaker 1 (01:35:11):
Let definitely like to give most worship will foster
the last words and the chanceto say anything he'd like, but I
like to just say thank you also.
You really Like I, had apassion for free masonry, but my
involvement with you has lit itto another level.
I mean I have a white, hot,burning heat for free masonry.

(01:35:34):
This is true, nothing will stop,and you had a massive part in
that for me personally.
So I want to take thisopportunity to thank you for
that Personally.
You were great master, agrandmaster and a great leader.
Well, thank you.

Speaker 3 (01:35:48):
Thank you an example, but I Can I can reverse that
and say that because of you wehad a pretty successful year,
you know, during my years,grandmaster.
So you know it's a two-waystreet.

Speaker 1 (01:36:03):
Yeah, I'm not fishing for those compliments, but I
learned from a wise man to justsay thank you.

Speaker 2 (01:36:10):
And with that we will end another amazing Podcast of
on the level with Fred and Chris.
Our interview with most.
Worship will foster most wish,will foster anything On the way
out that you'd like to sign offto our, to our listeners.
I.

Speaker 3 (01:36:26):
Just want to thank you guys for for having me.
This has been a lot of fun andI hope to see everyone soon.

Speaker 2 (01:36:34):
Yep, we will definitely.
Wherever you're at, whereverwe're at, we will eventually
meet and, of course, it will beon.

Speaker 3 (01:36:41):
The level I had to do it.
So if you've listened.

Speaker 2 (01:36:44):
If you've listened to the podcast up to this point,
you really are a hero of ours.
If you have any questions orcomments, please just Email us.
Fred at, on the level with Fredand Chris comm or Chris at the
same longest email address onradio for a reason, and Again,
like, like we always say, orlike we always try to say Now,

(01:37:06):
now, now that you've heard whatyou've heard, go back to your
lodge and build it strong.

Speaker 1 (01:37:13):
Thank you.
Most work for you guys.

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Interview with M:. W:. Jefferey Foster, Past Grand Master of Masons in FL

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Interview with M:. W:. Jefferey Foster, Past Grand Master of Masons in FL

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