Interview with R:. W:. Barry D. Hart: From Frisbees to Freemasonry

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Hey, chris, yeah, fred, what's a Mason?

Speaker 2 (00:06):
That's a really good question, fred.

Speaker 1 (00:12):
You've reached the internet's home for all things
masonry.
Join Chris and I as we plumbthe depths of our ancient craft,
from the common gavel to thetrowel.
Nothing is off the table, sograb your tools and let's get to
work.
This is on the level.
Oh my gosh, we're back.
Yeah, rebel yell.
We can't, we cannot livewithout the rebel yell.

(00:33):
I believe last night the rebelyell was called for during poor
guy.

Speaker 2 (00:38):
Some someone called for the rebel yell People were
poor people because one guy waslike everyone was like what do,
what?

Speaker 1 (00:45):
Don't do it here?
We did it, we did it.
We did it.
What did where?
What were we doing last night,chris?
I can't remember.

Speaker 2 (00:52):
We had the last master mason association meeting
here in district twenty three.
Wait Last one for the year youwere ever.

Speaker 1 (00:59):
You were president, weren't you?
Yeah, oh, my goodness.
So that means you're notpresident anymore.
Oh, how's that feel really good.

Speaker 2 (01:06):
The best gavel drop I think I gave all year was the
one at the end You've got acouple of gavel.

Speaker 1 (01:11):
final gavel drops coming.

Speaker 2 (01:13):
They're all pretty quickly, are they?
Oh yeah, it's just the one left.

Speaker 1 (01:16):
The one left, the wonderful master one, yeah, okay
, yeah, that's kind of a big one.

Speaker 2 (01:20):
There's still a jury's out if I can make it to
that one, but we're going to try.

Speaker 1 (01:26):
Yeah, there's a few people, kind of you know,
working on your demise out there.
So yeah, nah.
That's a futile effort, I'm notgoing anywhere.
Baby, bring it on.

Speaker 2 (01:39):
Like a virus Keep coming back.

Speaker 1 (01:41):
That's right, that's right.
So, how goes?
Did I just cut you off?

Speaker 2 (01:46):
I was just going to say.
We got asked by our districtinstructor to do the education a
little bit last night, yeah,and that's what I love about
this is easy.
It's not like we ever have tomake anything up.
No, we're having some drama inour lodge and we're like hey, we
have drama in our lodge, youhave drama in your lodge, why
don't we talk about it?
Right, that's right.
That's that simple and that'swhat we did.

Speaker 1 (02:08):
And kind of just talked a little bit about, you
know, the tools that we have inthis craft to deal with drama,
right, I mean, that's the mainthing, and why don't we, you
know why don't?
Oh, and the other thing is islet's not forget the premise
that brother Sean Cooney kind ofthrew our way, that we tried to
develop a little bit.
And that is what if the dramain the house is part of the

(02:30):
design?

Speaker 2 (02:31):
Yeah, you know, so that we can learn.
That's why we're all doing it,we're all experiencing.

Speaker 1 (02:36):
That's it, man.
It's training wheels for life.
Training wheels for life.
Deal with it in the house.
I like that, and then when yougo out of the house, you're not
such an ass.

Speaker 2 (02:46):
Yeah, hopefully hopefully, hopefully ask your
wife.
That's right Well.

Speaker 1 (02:50):
I got to say I am.
I am thrilled that we do have aguest, we do this morning.

Speaker 2 (02:58):
Get out.

Speaker 1 (02:58):
Yes, he is the national, the national, he is a
national champion of ultimateFrisbee.

Speaker 3 (03:08):
Oh you went back.

Speaker 1 (03:09):
You went back.

Speaker 2 (03:12):
Actually, you've heard us talk about this person.

Speaker 1 (03:14):
A lot, almost every pod.

Speaker 2 (03:16):
Yeah, we're, we're fanboys, and that's why we've
been begging him to come on theshow.

Speaker 1 (03:19):
He finally relented, and here he is here, he is Right
, right, where's full heart.
Thank you for coming it is, itis.
It is our honor to have you, sotell us a little bit about your
career as an ultimate Frisbeechampion, please, you're here.

Speaker 3 (03:35):
Let's be very clear here my last ultimate game was
at least 24 years ago.

Speaker 1 (03:40):
Wait, I've been.
I've been lied to, you lied tome.

Speaker 2 (03:42):
I did See this happened.
This is magic.

Speaker 3 (03:47):
I was playing in my 40s, but that's crazy.

Speaker 2 (03:50):
I'm a little older than that now.
25 years ago it was a big dealyeah.

Speaker 3 (03:56):
Is it the kind of?

Speaker 1 (03:57):
is it the kind of frizzy where you got the the
goals, or is that frisbee?

Speaker 2 (04:00):
golf.

Speaker 1 (04:00):
No, no, it's the soccer with a disc yes, Soccer
with a disc, ok, but there'sanother one where there's, like
these, cages throughout the you.
You play like golf.

Speaker 2 (04:10):
I think that's frisbee golf.

Speaker 1 (04:11):
OK.
So that's not, this is ultimate.
Frisbee is like soccer withFrisbee.
Frisbee, I got you OK.
Ok, I think I've seen thatplayed like in college campuses
and stuff.
It's a good game.
Yeah, running game, runninggame.
So that can't be bad.

Speaker 3 (04:24):
Yeah, yeah.
That's why I don't play anymore.
Yeah, right.

Speaker 2 (04:28):
You would think that by the sound of it it's no big
deal, but I actually used towork with like five ultimate
frisbee players.
One of them was on the proJacksonville Canons team at the
time.
Those guys, bodies, are bangedup.

Speaker 1 (04:42):
Oh, is that right, they're like 25 year olds.
Right.

Speaker 2 (04:44):
You think they were playing professional, like sumo
wrestling?

Speaker 1 (04:47):
Right, right.

Speaker 2 (04:48):
My knees blown out.
My leg cracks whenever I moveit in this direction.
Right Jeez, you're 25 man,you're playing frisbee.
Right what are you doing?
It's a high contact sport.

Speaker 1 (04:58):
Yeah, anytime you get zero padding.

Speaker 2 (05:00):
They're running full speed, right yeah, my diving.

Speaker 1 (05:03):
I raised my sons in soccer in Southern California
Sorry, southern California, inColorado, and they played
competitively.
So we traveled all over thecountry to play.
No, no, this is just soccer,because ultimate frisbee is
soccer with a frisbee as we'vealready covered.
So we were at a real high levelof soccer play in the

(05:25):
competitive world and all of thecoaches were professional
soccer players.
One of them was Rob Lip, whowas a real famous.
He was with Colorado Avalancheand a super talented kid, but at
27 years old he could barelywalk.
Oh geez, he could barely walkman, because the level of play
is so high and so competitivethat these guys just and he was

(05:46):
playing, since he was, you know,five years old, this guy.

Speaker 2 (05:49):
My question is is he getting paid?

Speaker 1 (05:51):
Oh, he got paid real well.

Speaker 2 (05:53):
And then it's worth it to give up the body if you're
making millions.

Speaker 1 (05:55):
Yeah, he did real well actually.
He got a contract to play forthem.
He played, he played out hiscontract, secured a ton of money
and then ended up working for areally famous insurance group
and his name is kind of likethat.
Yeah, no, he's actually aninsurance broker now and he,
he's just making, you know, gobsof money in the Denver market
and smart kid you know.

(06:17):
But you know, at 27 years oldhe could barely walk.
That was my point.
I don't know how we got on thattrail.
Can we find another trail toget down?

Speaker 3 (06:24):
Well, let's stay on this one for one second.
My son was a Jake.
He's a member of SierraSatellites.
Was a referee for when ultimatewent pro.

Speaker 1 (06:34):
Oh OK, wow, wow.

Speaker 3 (06:35):
And, of course, referees are running more than
the ultimate players, and theultimate players run a lot, so
right, yeah.
It's.
It actually is a good sport andI think it's a Olympic sport
now.

Speaker 1 (06:46):
Oh, is it really?
I did not know that Wow.

Speaker 2 (06:48):
You can find it on ESPN 27 somewhere.
I would always joke with theguys I was telling Fred before
the show I'd say how do you feelabout the fact that your sport
actually gets huge attendancewhen dogs play but not when
humans do?

Speaker 1 (07:03):
And it's true.

Speaker 2 (07:04):
People watch dogs.
Do that world open thing.
Oh, the world open for theFrisbee dog.

Speaker 1 (07:09):
Frisbee thing?
Yeah, that's right.
Border colleagues are almostalways the champions because
they're just superior life formshaving two of them.
So, anyways, right, where'sfull?
So give us kind of a littlebackground about your Masonic
career when did you start andkind of give us a 30 thousand
foot view of who you are andwhere you come from.

Speaker 3 (07:31):
Yeah, I was raised in 1988 at Sierra Soto, 147.

Speaker 1 (07:36):
Wow.

Speaker 3 (07:37):
My Masonic record says that I was junior steward
in 1990 and Marshall in 1991,which I had no idea I'd ever
been a Marshall.
It's just on my record.
I got in line and I had to dropout.
I started a new career, had twokids and diapers and that
happens, that happens.
Exactly so and then really itwas the right thing to happen,

(08:00):
because I mean I was involved atthe, at the lodge, in the third
degree, for I mean for quite abit and then and then got pretty
involved in Scottish right andthe shrine, but they've always
been back to the blue lodge yes,you further have and thank God

(08:23):
you have.

Speaker 1 (08:24):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (08:25):
So this guy has been the one that got me through this
year.
I think you need past mastersto help the masters get through
the year.

Speaker 1 (08:33):
Yeah, that's right.

Speaker 2 (08:34):
And you were always the one checking in on me, which
really helped me so much.
Just get a random call and sayhi, are you doing?
Ok, is everything all right?

Speaker 1 (08:43):
And I'm like what do you know that I don't?

Speaker 3 (08:45):
I mean like no, I'm just checking.
Oh, ok, yeah, thank you.
Well, I've been there twice, soI know what you're going
through.
Yeah, master of Venice 301 in2011 and then master of Sarasota
in 2016.
So, yeah, you need some help,ok.

Speaker 2 (09:03):
You did Venice first, I did Huh, they had a need a
little they had a need.

Speaker 3 (09:08):
It was a yeah, I started as senior Deacon there
and in glad I started at seniorDeacon because I just don't
think he can be an effectivemaster without yeah.
We're being really good at thatpart.
Whether you did it for theentire year, you better know the
part.

Speaker 1 (09:24):

Speaker 2 (09:25):
Right, I still look at.
That is like I don't know why,but like that chair I identified
with so closely that I stillget mad when I see other people
sitting in it, like it's mychair, you know.
Do you have that about any ofthe chairs?
Well, you, probably the east,you like.
Who are these clowns thinkingthey can run a lodge?

Speaker 3 (09:43):
That's my chair.

Speaker 1 (09:44):
Well, I like I like being senior Deacon.

Speaker 3 (09:47):
I'm going to do it Saturday.
Yes, you know you're moving.
And yeah for me, it's a loteasier to be in the degree than
to sit there and watch it.
Yes, I'm the same.

Speaker 2 (09:58):
Yeah, I mean it's like almost meditation to sit
and watch it, you know, because,like you know, everything
that's going to happen and it'shappening and it's almost like
no, and it's calming but, it'sreally boring.
Like you want to be in theaction, right?

Speaker 3 (10:13):
Where's my life Once you've been there?
Yet Put me in coach.
It's hard.

Speaker 1 (10:16):
Well, that's what I was just going to say, because
being, you know, only raised twoyears, two and a half years ago
, sitting on the sidelinesduring degrees, for me is
awesome, because I'm justtotally focused on every word
you know, hearing it andexperiencing it, taking it in,
you know, so that when my timecomes up, I've got it in my head
, you know, and yeah, I lookover and see you mouthing words

(10:39):
all the time, all the timetrying to get it in, get it in,
get it in.
There, you know.
So you can get it in all daylong, but until you get it back
out, get it in and then get itback out that's when you really
learn it.
You know, that's when youreally get to know it, and we
made a commitment this comingyear several of us to go through
Silver to Gold card.
We're going to do 52 weekly gettogethers to try, by the end of

(11:04):
the year, to get both of thosecards for me.
Wade shout out to Wade, brotherWade out there and a couple of
other guys right.

Speaker 2 (11:10):
Yeah, that will be fun.
Treat it just like a regularcatechism class, but going
through all the proficiencycards.

Speaker 1 (11:16):
Yeah, it'll be fun.
It'll be a lot of fun.

Speaker 3 (11:19):
So, right, where's full.

Speaker 2 (11:20):
Tell us how I can help with that I'm so glad you
said that you shouldn't havesaid that we have two classes a
week everyone.

Speaker 1 (11:29):
I'm down with it.
There's the yell hey, I'm downwith it.
I would.
It would be great to have thosethings in a year's time, not
only just because we should begetting, we should be educating
ourselves and growing in Masonry, but also it'll be.
It's going to be a lot of fun.

Speaker 2 (11:45):
Oh, getting together and going through it all and you
know, look back at yourcatechism time.

Speaker 1 (11:50):
It was so awesome.
It was so awesome.

Speaker 2 (11:52):
No pressure no stress .
No one's asking you to do stuff.

Speaker 1 (11:55):
I mean, don't get me wrong, the the proficiencies for
me were extremely stressful.
Well, I my first one was EA wasbecause we were just not
prepared for it.
Yeah, I got to be honest withthe fellow crafts was great, I
enjoyed that one.

Speaker 2 (12:08):
We merged your groups and merged the groups and that
was good.
You finally got together.

Speaker 1 (12:12):
That's when I knew that.
I knew that catechism by myself, from memory, from beginning to
end.
I did not the EA, I only knewmy parts barely, but this one I
could.
I remember saying it to youover the phone while I was
driving, from beginning to endthat one time and I was like
damn, I just did this.

Speaker 2 (12:29):
It was awesome, you know, yeah, it really, it really
was, and that there was amoment.
I know where you like.
I don't think this is for me.

Speaker 1 (12:36):
Oh yeah, that was during that.

Speaker 2 (12:37):
EA, we didn't, but your instructor came to me and
said we're about to lose for it.

Speaker 1 (12:41):
Yeah, you were too, because I was just like this, I
don't know man, I think I gotsome kind of brain problem here,
because I can't remember.
Can't remember what is that,how's that go?
K R S.
I have K?
R S.
Can't remember she can'tremember that's.

Speaker 2 (12:55):
That's my disease, so yeah, so first hurdle in me I'm
totally looking forward to that.

Speaker 1 (13:02):
another rabbit trail there.
Right Worshpill, you were abecause of the title, right
Worshpill.
The reason for that is becauseyou were a DD GM at one time in
2012.

Speaker 3 (13:15):
2012, more than one time, and then I finished up
2013.

Speaker 1 (13:21):
Oh OK.

Speaker 3 (13:22):
We had a guy that was District Deputy had to move OK,
and I finished out here.

Speaker 1 (13:27):
Oh, ok, ok, so tell us a little bit about your
experience with regard to thatrole and in that time frame.

Speaker 2 (13:34):
When was this?

Speaker 3 (13:36):
2012.
And again picked it up again inDecember of 2013.

Speaker 1 (13:42):
So that's 10 years ago.
Yeah, yeah, a decade ago.
Seems longer and like it justhappened yesterday.
Yeah, all right, right, I getthat.
I get that it was quite anhonor.

Speaker 2 (13:54):
Easy times or was it tough times?
I?

Speaker 3 (13:57):
enjoyed it.
I like dealing with thebrothers.
I like you know, and one of thebeauties of District Deputy is
you're kind of obligated to payattention to all the lodges and
not just the ones that you'reinvolved in, so I like that part
as well.

Speaker 2 (14:12):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (14:13):
You know, there's always times when you're in a
leadership role that you'regoing.
Why am I having to deal withthis?
But for the vast majority ofthe time it was very positive.

Speaker 1 (14:25):
And you?

Speaker 3 (14:25):
you're required to visit every lodge in my year of
my first year.

Speaker 1 (14:32):
Four times, four times Wow.

Speaker 3 (14:35):
Nine lodges at the time yeah so you had your
official visit and then you hada follow-up visit with the
worshipal master and thesecretary.
I included the senior warden totalk about.
You know where they might bedeficient and where they can.

Speaker 1 (14:50):
Right.

Speaker 3 (14:52):
And to tell them when they were doing right.

Speaker 2 (14:54):
Yeah, just that happens too.
Yeah, a lot, believe it or not,and the last visit was just for
fun.

Speaker 3 (15:01):
No.

Speaker 2 (15:01):
No, wasn't for fun.
Just get to chill out on thatvisit.
Right have your feet rubbed, sothe first one's the official
visit.

Speaker 3 (15:09):
The second one's to go through that four page
checklist.
Yeah, okay, right, yep, yep,point out the deficiencies, and
then the second official visitand then the second follow-up.

Speaker 1 (15:21):
Okay.

Speaker 3 (15:21):
Which is with the new worshipal master.

Speaker 1 (15:24):
Oh, okay, I see.

Speaker 3 (15:25):
Usually the same old secretary.

Speaker 1 (15:27):
Usually Almost always .

Speaker 3 (15:29):
Yeah, so if it didn't get changed from the first
visit, your only hopes with thesenior warden?
Yeah.
Because, if the secretarydidn't change it on first visit,
he's not going to change it onthe second visit.

Speaker 2 (15:39):
Right, that's right, yeah, I hope people were
listening to that what you said.
You included the senior wardenin your official visit because
you were going to see him againin your year and it's good for
him to know what the issues arehe needs to know what he's
getting into.

Speaker 1 (15:54):
Yeah, that's right.

Speaker 3 (15:55):
Unfortunately, and look, you know you're counting
down the last two months.

Speaker 2 (16:01):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (16:01):
You just said that you're no longer president of
the Master Mason Association,but you are for two more months.
You just don't have anothermeeting, right?

Speaker 1 (16:11):
He's not installed.
He's hesitating to answer thatone.

Speaker 2 (16:17):
No, Sorry for the bad news but, you don't get out
that easily, okay, well, I mean,the thing is I came in and got
my checklist done and I hadnever seen that checklist before
, so I'm sitting there lookingat it for the first time
answering questions about wait.
We didn't do that, secretary,wait.

Speaker 1 (16:36):
Oh it was.
It was a tough moment.
Yeah, I'm sitting right next tohim.
The junior warden got mad andslammed the door and walked out.
Oh, it was an interesting.
Oh my God, what's happening?
I don't have any control overthis and of course, you know
right, we're full.
Davies, he's just calm.
He's like all right, let's goto the next one.

Speaker 2 (16:51):
I'm sure he's seen worse and he's everybody's like.

Speaker 1 (16:54):
you know, we're all dodging, we're playing dodge the
question here and he's justlike okay, let's go on to the
next one.

Speaker 2 (17:00):
It depends on what your definition of the word is.

Speaker 3 (17:02):
Yeah, right, and the irony is that checklist has been
around for years.

Speaker 1 (17:08):
Right, so it's not a surprise to the secretary.

Speaker 3 (17:11):
No, he's seen it before.
Yeah, yeah, although theyalways act surprised Like what.

Speaker 1 (17:15):
What.

Speaker 2 (17:16):
What?
Where's your master?
Why didn't you?
I'm like what.
Wait, hold on, but our seniorwarden was there because I knew
I can't do that to that guy.
What's happening to me?

Speaker 1 (17:25):
Right, right.

Speaker 2 (17:26):
So, and that was Zach , yeah, and so Zach was aware of
it, but I don't know if everylodge does that, so for the DDGM
to make sure it happens is verywise.
Right Move.

Speaker 1 (17:36):
Yeah, that is a wise move I had to argue to get that
done.

Speaker 3 (17:40):
Oh, I don't doubt it and I'm going look, if you want
change, the senior warden's theguy, because a lot of lodges
have secretaries been around fora long time and they're setting
their ways and they've seenthat list before.
So if it hasn't changed andthey've been the secretary for
the last five years, you knowwhere the problem is.

Speaker 2 (17:59):
Right, right, sure.
Let's be honest, most DDGMsaren't going to push that hard.

Speaker 3 (18:04):
They're not really going to say take care of this
or else, For the most part, youknow, all of those go to Grand
Lodge and technically the GrandMaster could look at one of
those reports and show up at alodge.

Speaker 1 (18:16):
Yeah, it could happen .
It could happen.

Speaker 2 (18:19):
And here in Florida.
It may that they may be gettinga little more strict on things.

Speaker 1 (18:23):
I think they should as long as they handle it
correctly.
You know, come in slowly butlet it, and it has been known
that we have been put on noticethat you know it's going to
become more and we're going tobe doing masonry as masonry,
more and more and more as timegoes on.
It sounds like that's thedirection Grand Lodge wants to
go in, and I'm a fan of itmyself.

(18:45):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (18:45):
I don't mind the accountability.

Speaker 1 (18:46):
That's right.

Speaker 2 (18:47):
Yeah, we this year the I guess the Grand Master
directed the district instructorto sit and grade each officer
individually on how they do inthe official right Opening.

Speaker 3 (18:58):
Yeah, officer.

Speaker 2 (18:59):
Yeah, he's, he's reading each one of us as
individuals and they don't tellyou how you do.

Speaker 1 (19:06):
Right.
Well, unless, unless it's youknow something really bad, then
you're going to know when theyshow up at the door and say, oh,
what do you hear?
For I'm here to talk to thatguy over there.

Speaker 2 (19:16):
Yeah, Ooh, I mean it makes sense if you think about
it.
If you just report to the GrandLodge, they got like a 60 in
their opening.
Like who's the problem?

Speaker 1 (19:25):
Right.

Speaker 2 (19:25):
How do they fix that?

Speaker 1 (19:26):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (19:26):
But if you're doing them individually and you're oh,
the senior warden is that'sgoing to watch that guy.

Speaker 1 (19:32):
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3 (19:34):
What effect can they have?
It's up to the.
Lodge whether they're going toadvance that guy or not.

Speaker 1 (19:39):
Absolutely.

Speaker 3 (19:39):
And the Grand Lodge can know about it all day long.

Speaker 2 (19:42):
But I'd be curious to know what is the plan.
Why do they want thatinformation?
How can you act on it?

Speaker 1 (19:49):
You know data, data is always a good thing if it's
used correctly.
So the more data you get, ifyou know how to read data you're
an insurance agent.
You know you understand thevalue of good data.
So that's probably.
That's probably real estate.
We're not real estate, sorry,insurance broker.
Yeah, you caught the drift,though.

Speaker 2 (20:08):
You did say insurance .
Oh, did I say insurance?
All right, apparently, I've hadenough coffee.
We're here to talk to Fredtoday, apparently.
Let Fred come to the surface,yeah Right.

Speaker 1 (20:17):
Yeah, don't talk to Fred any day, anyway.
Okay, so Rabbit Trail, rabbitTrail brought, and Rabbit Trail.

Speaker 2 (20:25):
Oh sorry, he keeps, he keeps rolling up my cords
there.

Speaker 1 (20:28):
May I ask a question?
Yes, please, please, shut Fredup.

Speaker 2 (20:31):
Distinguished Wright Wyrthfield District Deputy,
Barry D Hart.
I don't know if we ever saidhis full name.
I'm curious.
You joined, why did you joinFreemasonry?
What got you to join in thefirst place back then?

Speaker 3 (20:46):
The down and dirty answer is my dad said show up at
the Lodge.
Oh, my dad was amazing Also anumber of because I'd moved to
Sarasota in 85 and I joined in87, was raised in 88.
That was fast.
But there were a number of menthat I knew that I'd met in

(21:08):
Sarasota, that were also masons.

Speaker 1 (21:10):
And.

Speaker 3 (21:10):
I'm looking at those guys going.
Well, if it's good for them, itmust be good for me.
You know how it is?
Yeah, you don't really knowwhat you're getting into.

Speaker 2 (21:19):
No no no, that's right.
Well, you, your dad, wasamazing.
Did you not talk about it thatmuch at home?
I know that generation liketend to not talk about it much.
He said what he could say whathe thought he could say which is
a lot less than what you cansay.

Speaker 3 (21:36):
Right, but I didn't know the right questions to ask
anyway.

Speaker 1 (21:40):
Right.

Speaker 3 (21:40):
So, so, honestly, I went to the library and looked
it up.
Nice, it's there.

Speaker 2 (21:48):
Yeah yeah, I got a book called Free Masonry for
Dummies and it's all there.

Speaker 3 (21:52):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (21:52):
Right.

Speaker 1 (21:53):
That book tells you everything.
It's a good book.
Yeah, that actually is a reallygood book.
It doesn't reveal any secrets.

Speaker 2 (21:58):
No, no, but that's where you realize there aren't
that many secrets.
Right, they just told meeverything here in the book.

Speaker 1 (22:04):
Yeah yeah.
It's a good overview foranybody out there who's who's
wondering, ea's out there thatare listening?
Masonry for Dummies isdefinitely helpful, and for for
simpletons like me it haspictures.

Speaker 2 (22:17):
So it was very, very helpful.
Yeah, no, it is actuallyincredibly helpful, and even if
you've been a Mason, it mightnot hurt to look at that book
for some time, because it doestell you what we're here to do
in much better terms than we doin our million hours of talking
about free Masonry.
Right, right.

Speaker 1 (22:36):
So Wright Warshville, what is your highest?
I don't like titles and rank.
We don't.
We're brothers, I mean, that'sour, our main title, but what is
your highest rank?
And or I?
I understand that you are arare you are in rare air
regarding the Scottish right.
Is that correct?

Speaker 2 (22:58):
I am a 33rd degree Correct Scottish right I
mentioned yeah illustrious inthe Scottish right is what they
call you illustrious, rightRight, yeah, illustrious.

Speaker 1 (23:07):
That's a.
I mean, that's a.
That's a high honor For sure.
Tell us a little bit about it.
Yeah, if you, if you would.

Speaker 3 (23:14):
I've said for years, there's three ways to get that
33rd degree is fame, fortune orwork your ass off.
I had to go with work your assoff because that's the only good
way to do it.
Well, it was the fun way.
Yeah, I mean soon after I wasraised we well.
I went to the Scottish right inthe Shrine the same year, 1988.
And I think by 1990 was in the20th degree, okay.

Speaker 2 (23:40):
The 20th degree is.
What's the name of that one?
Do you remember?

Speaker 1 (23:45):
I know we did the 21st.

Speaker 2 (23:46):
Is that Russian pro right pro?

Speaker 3 (23:49):
the 20th, it's got the nine candles.
I hope I'm sorry, rick.
I hope I'm not spillinganything out here.

Speaker 1 (23:57):
And you and I know that we'll edit it, don't worry.

Speaker 3 (24:00):
There's no real secrets in the 20th degree.
I wish we could do it in publicand still think that we might,
could do that one day.
That'd be awesome, withoutdoing anything esoteric, because
it shows what we do yeah, theritual side, and it's also a
powerful degree.
So, and then we got into the14th degree a year or two later

(24:21):
and wow.

Speaker 2 (24:22):
I've been right into it in early days Wow.

Speaker 3 (24:25):
Well, both of those were.
Both those degrees were done bythe term so be didn't exist at
the time.
So, being meaning south of thesouth of the bridge right.
But both of those degree teamswere SOB teams.

Speaker 2 (24:40):
So we're in Sarasota, florida, which is about an hour
south of where we meet in ourScottish Rite Temple in Tampa,
and there's a big bridge inbetween us, so they call us
south of the bridge, guys SOB.

Speaker 1 (24:52):
So B is right.

Speaker 2 (24:52):
We know what they mean.

Speaker 1 (24:53):
We know what they mean.
They're right, you're down,right.
So the 20th degree is a matterof justice.
Oh, that right, okay, yeah,that's what it says.

Speaker 3 (25:02):
That's the new Remember these degrees got
rewritten about 15 years ago.

Speaker 1 (25:08):
Oh, is that right?
I did not know that.

Speaker 3 (25:10):
Some of them being remarkably close to the original
and some being the 20th degreecompletely different.
Oh, interesting.

Speaker 1 (25:19):
I wonder what we've been doing the older version.
Okay, okay.

Speaker 3 (25:24):
And part of the reason for that is if you got a
team that's been doing a degreefor years and then you tell them
to relearn the degree, but it'spart of the old degree?
Yeah, Then there's new stuff.
That's not gonna start with newguys, or you've got to have
some really good ritualists tobe able to start the old track

(25:45):
and know where to divert.

Speaker 2 (25:46):
So that's tough.

Speaker 3 (25:48):
And I like the old 20th.

Speaker 1 (25:50):
So okay, so I know that Sean Cooney just went
through all of it.

Speaker 2 (25:57):
Yes.

Speaker 1 (25:58):
And he did it all in a two day weekend.
Is that, was that yourexperience, or was it different
back then?

Speaker 3 (26:03):
When I went through, we actually we did two weekends
and we went up Friday night theydo a degree, we'd have dinner,
they do a degree, then we'dstart again the next morning
about 6 30.
And they did that two weekendsin a row.

Speaker 2 (26:17):
So you definitely saw more degrees than we do today
If you did it over two weekends.

Speaker 3 (26:23):
Yes, yeah, and of course we've done one day
degrees, so there's fivemandatory degrees.
Okay, it can be done in a day.

Speaker 1 (26:34):
Okay, wow, that's a long day.

Speaker 3 (26:36):
Well, you can't do all 30, 29 degrees in one day.

Speaker 1 (26:42):
Okay.

Speaker 3 (26:42):
So they'll talk about some and exemplify others.

Speaker 2 (26:45):
Imagine how many people it must take to fully do
29 degrees.
How many guys do you think ifyou've had to take a guess and
they were all different in eachdegree?
You're talking about hundredsof guys, yeah, 250.

Speaker 3 (26:59):
Wow.

Speaker 2 (26:59):
No kidding.

Speaker 1 (27:00):
Massive undertaking, that's awesome.

Speaker 2 (27:02):
Those guys need.
They don't live next door, theyall need to travel and they all
got to eat and it's anexpensive endeavor.

Speaker 1 (27:09):
I am.
I know very little aboutScottish Rite masonry.
I haven't really made anydecisions as far as pursuing
York Rite, scottish Rite, any ofthat.
I'm kind of focused on BlueLodge right now.
But tell us, tell us what iswhat is.
Give us the overview.
What to you, what is?
What does Scottish Rite mean toyou?
What is it?

Speaker 3 (27:30):
Well, a couple of years ago, scottish Rite and it
might be more than a couple ofyears ago started going to
college of Freemasonry.
So I've heard that.

Speaker 1 (27:39):
I think I've heard that term too.

Speaker 3 (27:40):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (27:41):
I've heard people talk about it that way.

Speaker 3 (27:43):
I mean there's 29 additional degrees over and
above the three that we all wentthrough in the Blue Lodge and
there's a lot of informationthere.

Speaker 1 (27:54):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (27:55):
I mean it sounds like yeah, For me Well it spans, in
my opinion, it spans, like allof human history, those degrees.
Yes, you're doing ancient Egypt, you're doing chivalric
medieval times, you're doinglike French stuff, like it's all
there.

Speaker 3 (28:14):
Well, remember what happened, right, Albert Pike,
because there was all of thesedegrees all over Europe that
have been in, you know, indifferent countries.

Speaker 1 (28:22):
Okay.

Speaker 3 (28:22):
He kind of pulled it all together and drew out these
29, which was the Southernjurisdiction of Scottish Rite
and organized it, oh, okay.
We're all kind of doing thesame thing now.

Speaker 1 (28:34):
Would you say that that's kind of Albert Pike's
claim to fame?
Is that what made him who he is?
Or I mean his he's legendaryyeah.

Speaker 3 (28:44):
Well, a lot of things Confederate general in Scout,
and if you read morals and dogma, which everyone does, yeah yeah
, I'll get right on that.
You'll see what was going on.
There was no television in the1800s, and these guys went
around and spoke in.

(29:05):
The more words you had, themore people wanted to listen.
Oh, right, Okay so that's partof the problem with morals and
dogmas.
He's writing it in theconversation of the day.
And it's complicated forsomebody today to read that and
be able to yeah, something thatmeans something.

Speaker 1 (29:25):
Yeah, yeah, it's like any other text you know from
Text from a different generation.
Somebody needs to step up andand re, you know, rewrite it in
the vernacular of the day, whichwould be real helpful.

Speaker 3 (29:40):
And that's been done to a degree has it there's an
abridged morals of dogma now,which is pretty good nice.

Speaker 2 (29:47):
The concept still applies.
You said the more words youhave, the more people listen.
Only you have to replace theword money with word yeah, and
the concept still applies today.

Speaker 3 (29:56):
Yeah, the more money you have, the more people will
listen to you.

Speaker 1 (29:59):
Yeah, that's right concepts alive and well.
We just use a different so so,as far as Scottish Wright goes,
it's it's an extension ofMasonry, but it is.
You don't have to be a ScottishWright Mason.
No to be a Mason.
So there are three degrees inMasonry.
But Going forward is Is it justa?

(30:25):
Is it a, is it an addition toMasonry or is it part of the
Masonic experience?
You know, you know I'm tryingto say is this I feel like it's
an addition Are you missing outon something by not doing it?

Speaker 2 (30:39):
Yes, Anything you don't do you're missing out on.

Speaker 3 (30:41):
Well, I know, but in in Masonry, can you be a
fulfilled Vibrant Mason withoutgoing into these two York right
and or, yes, scottish right, youcan for sure, and and, and I
think one of the failures ofMasonry is we tend to first,
soon as we raise that guy, we gooh, here's a petition, and I
did it.

Speaker 1 (31:01):
Mm-hmm.

Speaker 3 (31:02):
I went.
I was raised in April of 88.
I went through back.
Then you had to go through theScottish right of the York right
before you become a Shriner.
Oh, wow that rule is no longerin existence, but but yeah, so I
went through the Scottish rightthat year and then went through
the shrine that year and whendid you do the York right?

(31:24):
About 10 years later.
Okay, my dad had gone Yorkright in Georgia but had gone
Scottish right when he moved toFlorida.
Okay so I got pushed in thatdirection to begin with and then
got kind of involved in it but.
But I wanted to see what wasgoing on in your right, yeah,
which is why I joined they havesome really awesome degrees.

Speaker 2 (31:46):
They do, especially the later ones.
I found them to be that lastone may be in superior to
anything I saw in the Scottishright.
It was impressive.

Speaker 1 (31:55):
Is there are 15 degrees in Scott in York right
York right Right, yeah, okayless degrees, but it's kind of
the same Content sort of they'recovering.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (32:08):
Different a little different way that they do it.
They say that the York right isgot a more Christian focus.

Speaker 1 (32:14):
I've heard that.
Yeah, and that's where theKnights Templar and all that
comes into right.

Speaker 2 (32:17):
Yeah, yeah, I interesting at some point in the
York right there's a degreewhere you cross a bridge right.
And you're going from the OldTestament to the New Testament.
It's symbolically interesting.
Yeah, and our Jewish brotherstypically don't do that one
that's unfortunate because youknow, in the Scottish right one
of my favorite degrees was theone where they, your souls,

(32:39):
being weighed by the Egyptiangods in the afterlife.
Now I'm not an Egyptian, but Isure think that degree is
awesome and I get the morallesson that they're trying to
tell me from it, so maybe itcould be the same for our Jewish
brothers you know they're,you're not converting.
Here You're just observing andtrying to take the moral lesson.

Speaker 3 (33:00):
Well they're.
They're not leaving that degree.
You have to profess, yeah.

Speaker 1 (33:06):
I've heard that you, you have to profess about your,
you have to be baptized and youhave to profess.

Speaker 2 (33:11):
Well, they baptize you in the Scottish right to oh
did I didn't know that and the14th you do it.
I Guess you should probablyshouldn't give away too much,
don't?

Speaker 3 (33:20):
don't give away too much.

Speaker 1 (33:21):
I could tell you why no, don't do that, don't do that
.

Speaker 2 (33:25):
We ever, like I said, you get kind of the same
content, but it does have adifferent slant.

Speaker 1 (33:29):
I'm going back to the part with Jewish brothers don't
want to cross over from OldTestament news.
The reason they don't want todo that is because it violates
their doctrine.
Yeah, and that's.
It violates their belief.
There's things in in my beliefstructure that I can't violate
either, you know, and that Iwon't, because that's what makes
my faith what it is, you know.

Speaker 2 (33:46):
So you have to like what would be an example of
something that you couldn'tviolate Curiosity well, there's
some of the prayers.

Speaker 1 (33:55):
You know, christians, we don't pray to somebody, told
me once I pray the very firsttime I was asked to pray.
I pray like a Christian, youknow, because I am.

Speaker 2 (34:02):
That was me.
I was at you and it's like youcan't, you can't pray, like,
could you please say a prayer?
Is like yeah, sure, jesus name,we pray, man.
I was like, oh, maybe you couldbe careful with that part.
And he said, well, then don'task me to say a prayer what you
said was was you have to havemore generic prayers?

Speaker 1 (34:16):
Your prayers need to be more generic.
And I said I don't pray togeneric gods and I don't pray
generic prayers.
Don't ask me to pray then.
So no one no one usually askedme to pray, although the other
day Justin Broom did and I did.

Speaker 2 (34:28):
I did modify it yeah but I just didn't stuff.

Speaker 1 (34:31):
But anyways, I I think that's that.
That's the beauty of masonry.
Yeah, I mean you.
We all come to it with ourdifferent faith structures and
if you know what your faith saysand what it doesn't say, well
Then you're able to navigatethrough this and and it should
sharpen you In your, in yourmasonic life and in your, in
your faith life too, because youshould be able to look at what

(34:55):
it is that's in front of you andmake decisions and do what is
right in your, in you know, asfar as what you believe.
Because if, if you don't, ifyou don't, if you say you
believe something and you don'tfollow it, well then do you
believe it.
I don't know, you know.

Speaker 2 (35:08):
That's, that's the thing you know, so it's and in
reality a lot of these thingsaren't Owned by one faith, as
people think they are.
Baptism isn't a solelyChristian thing baptism is a
Jewish thing.
I.
The cleansing of your soulthrough water has been done in
like countless Right in theJewish and Christian faith.

Speaker 1 (35:28):
It is it.
It is the for the remission ofsin.
Yeah, one is baptized todeclare to the world that I am
changing, I'm going to, I'mgoing, I'm turning 180 degrees,
I'm going the other way.
Now I'm coming up out and I'mgoing to turn and go a different
way.
That was John the Baptist, oneof our patron saint in masonry.
Animal, man, he was that'sright with the camel hair and

(35:51):
eaten locust and honey man theyminimal.

Speaker 2 (35:53):
he was a true man, he was out there but that was,
that's what he did.

Speaker 1 (35:57):
He baptized for the remission of sin with water.
That was the idea.
Anyways, another rabbit trail,but I love these rabbit trails.

Speaker 3 (36:06):
So go through the 14th degree, you'll get the rest
of that.
You're all over it.

Speaker 2 (36:10):
Yeah, yeah, I know, because I know there I have
friends that Aren't specificallyChristian and got really
uncomfortable in the 14th degree.

Speaker 1 (36:19):
There are many, no it's Scottish right or your
cretis is the Scottish, oh,Scottish okay.

Speaker 2 (36:23):
There are some things that happen there that do look
very like, like Catholic, almostin nature of the ritual and
it's like are you listening to?
Are you just looking?
Are you listening?
Listen to the words, hearwhat's happening here, because
there's people just draw theirlines in the sand and you know
that Freemasonry helps removethat a little.

(36:44):
I think it opens your Horizonsa little to hear things, not to
change your viewpoints, like yousaid no one's trying to change
your religion.

Speaker 1 (36:52):
No, that's right.
If you know what you believeand why you believe it, you can
hear anything you want.
Just make the make decisionsbased on your Sincerely held
beliefs.
Otherwise, why believe it?
Why bother?
You know?
That's, that's the bottom line.
I I don't forsake anybody orjudge anybody for their belief
structures.
My judgment comes in when youtell me you believe something
and then you can't tell me whatit is.

Speaker 3 (37:13):
You know that's that's, or tell me you believe
in it and I have to believe init too.
Yeah, no, that's that's andthat's.

Speaker 1 (37:19):
Yeah, that's the wrong way favorite one, because
human beings, the way we're, theway we are.
If you tell me I have tobelieve something, well, I'm not
.
I'm not gonna believe it, justfor that reason.
Believe it if you give me a goodreason the good, the best
reason to believe something isif you look at a person's life
and you say, well, that guy'sgot something there.

(37:41):
There's something there in thatguy's life that that I need to
find out about and you haveearned the right to speak
because the person is asking you, because you, you live
differently, or you, you know.
Whatever it is, whatever faithit is for, for Christians, this
is huge.
This is a huge thing.
What's you living it?
Oh, living it out before theworld is a huge thing.

(38:03):
We get we get for me, since asfor anybody, anybody, sure, but
being called a hypocrite, youknow, because you profess one
thing right, but live anotherthing, is absolute Taboo in my
faith.
We, I try my best, I failmiserably taboo.

Speaker 2 (38:23):
Find that hard to believe.

Speaker 1 (38:24):
Yeah, I know, seems to be very prominent.
Well, in the, do we, do we needto go down this?
Do we need to go down this road?
That's a that's a hell of arabbit hole it does right.

Speaker 2 (38:35):
I mean, you, would you know that?

Speaker 1 (38:37):
I know that, oh, I absolutely know, and I know
where it came from.
Yeah, absolutely yeah, but Idon't think but it's not just
your faith.

Speaker 2 (38:44):
Look at our fraternity right.
Yeah, how many masons do youlook at and be like?
Have you learned a singlelesson?

Speaker 1 (38:51):
I think we had this conversation just the other day.
Apparently you haven't learneda darn thing.
Even though you know you'regetting clubbed over the head
constantly by your own badbehavior, you still have not
learned a damn thing.

Speaker 3 (39:02):
Yeah, some people aren't quicker than others.
That's it.

Speaker 1 (39:05):
No, you're right and I, I appreciate that perspective
because I'm one of them.
I, I, I don't learn.
The first time I got to get alittle, the back of my head's
got to be good and soft BeforeI'm like, hey, you know what, I
probably ought to changedirection here.
I.

Speaker 2 (39:21):
Don't like.
We talked about that last night, right?

Speaker 1 (39:26):
having to humble yourself yeah, before your
brother's because you didsomething dumb is is painful and
it hurts, but it's a necessarylesson so that the next time it
comes up you might, you might,do something different.

Speaker 3 (39:41):
It's an essential requirement of adulthood and I
agree.

Speaker 1 (39:45):
Yeah, that's a good word.
I.

Speaker 3 (39:48):
In my youth I blamed everybody but me right.

Speaker 1 (39:51):
Well, that cop gave me that speeding ticket.

Speaker 3 (39:54):
Well, if I hadn't been speeding, I wouldn't have
got right, I had to give it tome.
It was my fault, and that'sonce you understand that you
have.
You have control over something, and even if you don't have
control, you have control overyour actions.

Speaker 1 (40:09):
That's right.

Speaker 3 (40:10):
That's something that we all need to work on.
That's right yeah.

Speaker 1 (40:13):
I'm, I am.
I am responsible for myresponses.
Thank you, you know, Iabsolutely am that I'm not
responsible for the guy, that heeither.
You could lie about me, you cansteal from me, you can hurt me,
but I still have control overthe way I respond to it and
that's like you said.
That's a basics of adulthood.
It really is.
We're grown-ass men, you knowwe should be I.

(40:35):
We say this all the time You'rea Mason, you're a grown man.
Yeah, we should be behavingdifferently than this.

Speaker 2 (40:40):
Yeah, and you know what we're not going to?
Because there's so many of usand we're all in different
stages of our life, like yousaid when you were young.
You're different than you aretoday, and we're all on this
journey, but we should all bemoving in the same direction, at
least.

Speaker 1 (40:53):
Yeah, at least.

Speaker 2 (40:54):
Right, you should be trying to get better.

Speaker 1 (40:56):
Yeah, I find that in our district there are a lot of
men ahead of me in this, thisMasonic walk, who are willing to
, you know, impart their wisdomand their experience back to.
And I've talked to other, I'vetalked to other masons from
other districts where this isnot the case.
We're pretty unique, are ourdistrict in Florida, some of the

(41:20):
districts out there?
Those lodges will not speak toeach other.
I mean, they're in competitionand it's just like you know,
there's no, there's really noleadership.
You're not visiting otherlodges, you're not getting
experiences from people who have, who like, like yourself, right
where.
So you've been at this a longtime and you got a lot to share
for those coming up behind you.
That is not the case in a lotof districts out there.

Speaker 2 (41:40):
There is, you know, a lot of strife and and
separation going on out thereeven in our district we have at
least one lodge that didn't makeit to the master Mason
Association all year, not onetime, and We've sent delegates.
I personally have been to thatlodge asking the officers right,
because I'm ignorant.
I don't know.
You know, somebody must havemade somebody mad somewhere down

(42:01):
the line.
That's how we got here.
So I don't even know thesituation anymore.
Like that's how old the dramamust be.

Speaker 1 (42:08):
Well, and it says a lot, that the worstful master
and president of the worstfulmaster of 147, who is the
president of the MMA, went toyour lodge to ask what's going
on and he still doesn't know.
So that Right.
So that's, that'll tell you howthat went.

Speaker 2 (42:24):
But I mean, I think it's everywhere.
Yeah, I think everyone dealswith that stuff and you know
what's gonna happen is likeWe'll have less lodges.
That's where it's headed.

Speaker 1 (42:35):
It's true.

Speaker 2 (42:35):
We will, and maybe that's good for the fraternity.

Speaker 1 (42:38):
Now I heard is isn't grand lodge trying to do
something as far as cleaning allthat up, trying to either bring
lodges together and lodges thataren't making masons?
You know, come to them and findout what it is.
You know that they want to doand somebody was who was talking
about that.

Speaker 2 (42:54):
It was the we hosted a guest speaker who's running
for the junior Grand Warden.

Speaker 1 (42:58):
Oh, right, right.
Yeah, he was talking about that.
I don't know if that's anactual legislation or something.
Do you know anything about that?

Speaker 3 (43:04):
It's not legislation, but I think Phoenix Lodge
really was a catalyst for thiswhole thing.
Right, we had two lodges carrybe fish and builders that they
were good lodges.
They just weren't.

Speaker 2 (43:21):
They didn't have enough activity to make it go
the way I heard it is one lodgehad money but not members and
one lot had members but notmoney.

Speaker 3 (43:29):
That's how I heard it when I was over there had some
members neither one of them wereincredibly active and and by
coming together that hybridvigor I call it that that lodge
really boss.

Speaker 1 (43:44):
Yeah, and we're talking about Phoenix Lodge.
Yeah right around the cornerfrom us at 147 and Sarasota
floor.
For those of you are listening,that there is a 147 is in
downtown Sarasota on.

Speaker 2 (43:56):
North Main.

Speaker 1 (43:56):
Street and literally a stone throw away a mile, a
mile away as Phoenix Lodge, andthere's a history there.

Speaker 2 (44:03):
Well, they came from us, yeah.

Speaker 1 (44:05):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (44:05):
I mean, they were our members that started two other
lodges, and that's what you'retalking about.

Speaker 1 (44:09):
So carry be fish and Phoenix were two different
lodges that merged fish andbuilders.

Speaker 3 (44:14):
Oh and builders.

Speaker 1 (44:15):
Okay, became Phoenix and now Phoenix is kind of the
the Kerry B Fish Lodge, is thatcorrect?
Kerry B Fish being one of ourgrandmasters from 147 in 1906, I
believe 1923, I think, yeahright, that's right, grandmaster
1923, that's correct.

Speaker 3 (44:37):
But when you see what happened there because that lot
, those two lodges, became avery active lodge- Right.
And that was a positive thing.

Speaker 1 (44:45):
Yeah, right Still active.

Speaker 2 (44:48):
Yeah, their culture is such that they like to do fun
things in the community.

Speaker 1 (44:52):
Right.

Speaker 2 (44:53):
That's kind of their thing, and ours has
traditionally been more abouteducation and history and study,
and that's what Rusty and Iused to tell everyone that came
is hey, you might want to checkthem out if you have family and
you're more into the socialstuff, because that's kind of
their thing.

Speaker 1 (45:10):
Right right.

Speaker 2 (45:11):
So we would always send people to check them out if
we thought they might be abetter fit for them.
That's kind of the beauty ofhaving lodges that close
together.

Speaker 1 (45:18):
And the beauty of lodges in general is the
diversity of them.
Each one has a little bit of adifferent flair to it.
From what I understand, 147back in the day was really about
business.
A lot of the business communityleaders in business were
members of 147, the mayor and acouple of mayors actually, and
big time developers, real estate, people of means, bankers, emic

(45:41):
.

Speaker 2 (45:41):
Kelly.

Speaker 1 (45:42):
Emic Kelly, the famous clown.
Yeah, yeah, but yeah, eachlodge having that different
distinctive to it which, likeyou said, if somebody comes in
and they got a family, they'reyounger and they want to do
stuff, we send them over toPhoenix.

Speaker 2 (45:56):
Tell them at least check it out, see what you think
.

Speaker 3 (46:00):
And you can go to other lodges.
Belong to one lodge and go toother lodges.

Speaker 1 (46:04):
Yes, we saw that last night when 147 was asked to
stand up and some of us didn'tBecause they have multiple
members.

Speaker 3 (46:13):
Well, you belong to more than one lodge man every
time it happens.

Speaker 2 (46:17):
I see him going, what do?

Speaker 1 (46:19):
I do here Just brain short circuiting.

Speaker 2 (46:22):
Illogical.
I don't know what to do.

Speaker 1 (46:25):
Just pulling your string there.

Speaker 3 (46:27):
No, well, I decided even months, and with Venice,
and I made a system.

Speaker 1 (46:33):
Oh there you go, nice Fair, that's fair, that's fair.

Speaker 2 (46:38):
What they're talking about is in our Master Mason
Association meeting we give aprize to the lodge that brings
the most members, and they getto display that in their lodge
until the next meeting.
We call it the broken column,and so because Wright Warshville
Hart belongs in his act veryactive in two lodges, he often
gets put in a situation wherehis vote could swing which lodge

(47:00):
wins that prize, and so it's alot of stress for him and it
sounds like you've made a systemso that you're off the hook.

Speaker 3 (47:07):
I do.
You didn't make a choice.
I always get dirty looks.

Speaker 1 (47:13):
We weren't even close .

Speaker 3 (47:14):
I think it's the fair system.

Speaker 1 (47:15):
I think it's a fair system.
Any system is better than nosystem.
And now that they know it.

Speaker 2 (47:19):
They can work it to their advantage right.
It's like wait what Tuesday?
Okay, All right, this is ourweek.

Speaker 3 (47:24):
Let's get the guys.
Come on, we'll only see Veniceon even months.
Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 2 (47:30):
No, but it's a great.
And our district instructorcame up with another prize which
how cool was that?
Very cool.
I'm glad you're here with him.
He made an award and, as thedistrict instructor, he decided
that every member of every lodgehe's assigning points for the
things they do in Masoniceducation.

Speaker 1 (47:48):
Right yeah.

Speaker 2 (47:50):
And he will total the points in the lodge with the
most points gets to display thenew award he made, which I'll
post it online for people to see.

Speaker 1 (47:57):
So you get your lodge plaque on there for the year
and you get to keep display itfor the year and you got to give
it up to the next one the nextyear.
So another traveling award,which I think is great.
It just brings unity to thedistrict.
You know that's what it's allabout.
The traveling gavel and thecolumn, the broken column, all
of these things are designed, Ifyou're listening, and you got a

(48:18):
district that doesn't do a lotof visitation.
These are things that we dothat really foster, you know,
all of the lodges comingtogether on a regular basis.
Last night we hadrepresentation from every lodge
except two, if I'm not mistaken.

Speaker 3 (48:32):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (48:33):
And then you have Punagorda, who usually makes it.
Couldn't make it for somereason.

Speaker 3 (48:37):
You know what I think ?
Some lodges don't want to betold what to do, and I'm not
saying that's a right or a wrongthing Right.
Right and I think district 23is unusual that we've got six
lodges that are participating onthe level that we are.
And working together for likepicnic that kind of thing.

Speaker 2 (48:59):
Sure, yeah, it's very positive, it's a great feeling.
If it's like, hey, can you getmy three guys in this Master
Mason degree and then we do that.
We were horse trading.
All right, I got your three,but you're going to take my two
next week at your fellow crowd.
Okay, we'll do it.

Speaker 1 (49:13):
Right.

Speaker 2 (49:13):
Right.

Speaker 3 (49:15):
Which is the positive part of the whole thing and why
I think they ought to be coming.

Speaker 2 (49:20):
But we have nine lodges in our district.
I know there are districts the20 has like 14 lodges in their
district.
That's a big job for some ofthem.
And the district deputy has tovisit 14 lodges four times.

Speaker 1 (49:33):
Four times yeah.

Speaker 2 (49:35):
And it ain't one mile apart over there.

Speaker 1 (49:37):
Yeah, no, that's right.
Yeah, there's a lot of distancebetween those lodges, that's a
tough job.

Speaker 2 (49:42):
Yeah, the district deputies really are.
It is a hard job.
I think people may not realizehow difficult that is.
It's because you only get askedto do the dirty work Right.
You really are only activatedif there's a problem.

Speaker 3 (49:58):
Hopefully not.

Speaker 1 (50:00):
But that's your duty, right.

Speaker 2 (50:02):
Like you're supposed to pull charters for the
grandmaster and you're supposedto inform him of problems that
are happening in your district.

Speaker 1 (50:08):
That's what happened in our district.

Speaker 2 (50:10):
That's exactly what happened this year.

Speaker 1 (50:12):
So the DDGM was responsible for that whole
fiasco, you know and when theycame in and had to remove a
sitting master.

Speaker 2 (50:20):
That happens and that's kind of the district
deputies job is to be thegrandmasters guy.

Speaker 3 (50:27):
And that's part of the district deputies.
Yeah, you're the arm of thegrandmaster.

Speaker 1 (50:33):
Yeah, it's part of our representative government.
So it's the representative ofthe lodges for our district to
the grandmaster and therepresentative of the
grandmaster to the district backdown, and that's just, it's
representative.
You know, it's not.
It's that's the form ofdemocracy that Mason reholds.

(50:54):
Is that representativegovernment system, you know?

Speaker 2 (50:57):
we had a district deputy from our lodge, Juan de
la Rosa, who had to pull acharter in his year and he told
me it broke his heart.

Speaker 1 (51:06):
But that was his duty .
Yeah, now those brothers hatehim.
Well, of course that's right,because it's his fault.
It was the guy.
It wasn't his fault, of coursenot.
How could it be his fault?

Speaker 2 (51:15):
He probably didn't even know the situation.
He got the call from on highand it was his job.
They said go get it.
Yeah, he had to go get it.
That's a tough job.

Speaker 3 (51:24):
But they had six months to prevent that from
happening.
It could have been done.

Speaker 1 (51:29):
This is Northport, yeah.

Speaker 2 (51:31):
Yeah, oh, look at you .

Speaker 1 (51:34):
No, I'm up on a few things, I'm up on all the bad
stuff.
Yeah, yeah, all the bad stuff.

Speaker 2 (51:40):
And the good stuff.

Speaker 1 (51:41):
Yeah, we're up.
We're up on stuff.
We know what we.
We talked about this last nightin lodge.
You know the, the, the bad.
We got to talk about all of itopenly and yeah, and we, we're
not going to learn.
We're not going to learnanything by sweeping stuff under
the rug.
You know we have to.
We're grown men, we're masonsand we just got to talk about

(52:02):
whatever the problem is.

Speaker 2 (52:04):
Speaking of this, let's put him in the hot seat,
all right?

Speaker 1 (52:07):
He's already in the hot seat.
My heart will turn it on.

Speaker 2 (52:09):
Your entire Masonic career that span from 1980s 88.

Speaker 3 (52:14):
87.
It's DA 87.

Speaker 2 (52:17):
Yeah, okay, that's where it started 87 to 2023.
That stands out to you as yourbiggest failure personally in
Freemasonry Wow.

Speaker 3 (52:28):
Failure.
Yeah, everyone wants to knowyour strong word.

Speaker 2 (52:31):
Well, we all have something right, we've got a low
point.

Speaker 1 (52:34):
We're great.

Speaker 2 (52:35):
Maybe I'm too, and be like if I could go back in time
I would totally change what Idid or what I said right Right.
Maybe do something I didn't do,like I think we all have that
thing.
Yeah, not me Really.

Speaker 1 (52:50):
Such a lie.

Speaker 3 (52:51):
Let me give you four.
There's always things you wishyou'd done better, but I don't
have any real regrets.

Speaker 2 (52:59):
Really good.

Speaker 3 (53:00):
Except for what I didn't have control over.
My second term as districtdeputy.
I found out the day that I wasgoing to Grand Lodge that the
secretary I think might havebeen the treasurer down there
had ripped them off for like 80grand.
Oh man, and in the worstful,master didn't call me, he called

(53:22):
the grandmaster, which wasembarrassing to me, oh man.
But again, I wasn't in controlof that.

Speaker 2 (53:28):

Speaker 3 (53:30):
And the grandmaster understood that.

Speaker 2 (53:32):
But that's the moment where you're like I wish.
I had known.

Speaker 3 (53:39):
The guy went to jail.
They got some of the money back, Not a lot.
Treasurer, secretary's lodgesdo those audits.
Every year you need to do anaudit.

Speaker 2 (53:51):
Yeah, hello, it's important, don't just sign the
paper.
Working on it.

Speaker 1 (53:56):
Yeah, I'm going through a little bit of that
right now because I took overPro Tem for half a year and the
previous audits, the previousmonths, were from somebody else
and I was being pressured tosign off on it.
So I'm not signing off on anyof that man, it wasn't me.

Speaker 2 (54:12):
Good, it wasn't me.

Speaker 1 (54:14):
I mean, I will tally it all up, based on past records
, and I'll put it in there.
But there's going to be a bignote on there that it wasn't me
that did any of this and itwasn't me that tallyed any of it
, that I just tallyed it upbecause that's the reason for it
.
You know it's I'm the last, I'mthe final checkpoint as
treasurer with regard to wherethe money's going and where it's

(54:39):
coming from and where it'sheaded.
So that's important.
You know it's not hard, yourtreasurer, you've done it.

Speaker 2 (54:45):
You're a treasurer of a couple of different
pinnabodies.
It's done every thing, yeah.

Speaker 1 (54:50):
It's not hard, but it's really super necessary to
be done correctly and filedcorrectly, you know, because
someone can go back at any timeand look at it and I have the
confidence of knowing the onesthat I did will be as accurate
as I can possibly make them.
I mean, what more can?

Speaker 2 (55:06):
you do.
You can vouch for what you did.

Speaker 1 (55:08):
That's right.
That's all you can do.
That's right, yep.

Speaker 2 (55:12):
I think I'll go about the converse of that question
because for me it's so clear inmy mind my installation day will
be the highlight of my Masoniccareer.
To this point For sure itstands out.
No question, I plan so hard forthat installation.
I never actually thought aboutbeing in the installation, so
when it was happening it waskind of a shock to me and

(55:35):
overwhelming, Really over.
I drove home that day thinkingdid that really just happen?

Speaker 1 (55:39):
Right?
Is this a dream?
It was a great night.

Speaker 2 (55:42):
I'm on cloud nine when I think about that.
Do you have a moment like thatin your Masonic career?

Speaker 3 (55:47):
Well, remember I had two installations at two
different lodges In.
Those were really Well.

Speaker 2 (55:52):
you've also been installed as a district deputy
twice, you're also a statechairman or zone chairman right
now.

Speaker 3 (56:00):
I am zone chairman committee, working on the
endowment and finance committeeand the insurance committee with
the Grand Lodge.

Speaker 2 (56:07):
And you're an illustrious 33rd degree in the
Scottish right.
You're in the shrine and you'vebeen in charge of the degree
work in the shrine my ceremonialyou were in charge of still in
charge of that.
You've done everything.
So my question to you is likewhat is the highlight for you
when you think back?
Do you have one that you'relike always go to when you need

(56:28):
a happy place in your memory?

Speaker 3 (56:31):
No, I think it's the day today.
I think it's the fact that Iknow that there's places that I
can go and I'm going to findbrothers that will hear about me
and that, and that I can helpthem if they need it.
So that's a daily comfort forme.
I mean, I don't think I feltthat way when I initially joined

(56:53):
Masonry.
It took a while for me torealize what the real import was
.
But I've been, I've traveledthe world, I've met people in
other countries that justhappened to see a ring or heard
something that I said, and thefact that you could have an
immediate friend in anothercountry is just incredible,
that's awesome.

Speaker 1 (57:14):
Yeah, I experienced that in Bahama, in Nassau.
I went.
I was I told the story too manytimes, but I was standing
outside the lodge there inNassau, bahama, and it was just
gated up, you know, I could justholding the gate, looking
through the gate, you know, andit was just the coolest building
, super old, old building.

(57:34):
Apparently, apparently, it hadbeen there since the pirate days
is how long that lodge has beenthere.
Anyways, I'm about to walk away.
I turn around.
Here comes the WorshuffleMaster with a bucket and a mop
in his hand.
He had showed up to what?
To mop the floors.
And so he, we, we did a little,a little Masonic test to see if
I was legit out front.

(57:55):
Oh, you got tried.
I got tried out front, which wastotally cool, and then he gave
me a grand tour of the entirebuilding, the history of, and
stuff.
We spent about an hour togetherand yeah, and I got a friend.
Like you said, I'm in adifferent country, it's the
Bahamas.
I mean it's, you know, butstill, it was just it.
I know exactly what you'retalking about.
You know you, you go somewhereand and there's, you know it is

(58:19):
in Bahama.
When you get off that boat, man, it's just a nightmare, it's.
I can't stand that wholeconfusion and all that scam
going on and all of a sudden,here's this little wasis with
this one friend you know that Ifound and we go inside the lodge
.
It's quiet, it's super old andawesome man, you know, and he's
just giving me the grand tour,brother and friend, you know
it's.
It's.
Where else are you going to getthat man?
You know, I don't know ofanother organization where you

(58:41):
can have that kind of connectionso quickly.
You know.

Speaker 3 (58:45):
I don't think there is one, no.

Speaker 1 (58:47):
I don't think there is either.

Speaker 3 (58:48):
Well, another highlight I got to raise both my
sons.

Speaker 1 (58:52):
Oh, that's a big deal with my dad there.

Speaker 3 (58:54):
And my youngest son, I was actually in the East when
he gave back his master Masoncatechism.
So that was.

Speaker 2 (59:02):
That was very cool.

Speaker 1 (59:03):
Yeah, that's a big deal.

Speaker 2 (59:04):
So your dad raised you.

Speaker 3 (59:06):
He did.

Speaker 2 (59:07):
And you raised both your sons I did.
You have something like the,the like traditional, all
wholesome American story, don'tyou?
You're doing your dad'sbusiness and now your son's
doing your business.

Speaker 1 (59:20):
Correct, you have any grand sons.

Speaker 3 (59:23):
I do too.

Speaker 2 (59:25):
And next generation is on its way.

Speaker 3 (59:28):
And another grand child on the way.
We don't know what the sex isRight.
So we just found out, socongratulations.

Speaker 1 (59:34):
Congratulations Wow.

Speaker 3 (59:35):
Yeah, I know it was pretty cool.
Grandkids are awesome.

Speaker 1 (59:38):
Yeah, yeah.
Grandkids had I known better,I'd have had them first.

Speaker 2 (59:43):
Yeah, you finally yes .
Take my child.
I'll see him in three months.

Speaker 1 (59:50):
So, as we're, as we're kind of coming to a maybe
an ending point, who?
knows, tell us kind of like you,you we've already made it clear
you, you, you know thisdistrict well.
You know Masonry very well.
You've been in it for a long,long time.
You're pretty well accomplished, you're very accomplished in it
.
What's the future of our craft?

(01:00:12):
What do you see?
What are some of the challengesahead of us as far as the craft
goes, and what, what?
What can we, as Mason, sittingsitting in their car or at the
gym listening to this podcast?
What's some of the things thatwe can do to try to face some of
the challenges coming to usover the next decade?

Speaker 3 (01:00:33):
My dad used to say that what this country needs is
a good depression, and what hemeant by that was we need to
need each other, and the heydayof Masonry was right after the
world war two, when all thoseguys came back from Europe and
the Pacific and they were usedto hanging out with each other.
And suddenly they're at home.
There's no TV, because therewas no TV back then.

Speaker 1 (01:00:57):
Right.

Speaker 3 (01:00:57):
And they were looking for an excuse to get out.
I'm not saying that's the onlyreason that they joined, but but
think about it In 2023,.
Allegedly, I have 500 channelson my TV.
Right, I've got a satelliteradio, without knowing how many
channels.
Computers I've got a computerin my hand.

(01:01:19):
You don't have to leave thehouse to feel connected, but I
don't think you are connected.

Speaker 1 (01:01:24):
I agree.

Speaker 3 (01:01:25):
And that's what I like about Mesa Rees the fact
that we're back, connected andwe're face to face, and and
that's what the large meetingsare about.
Are they boring?
Sometimes?
Yeah, but I'm sitting therewith a bunch of my brothers and
and friends, so I like that and,of course, I like the ritual
too.
But right?

Speaker 2 (01:01:45):
Yeah, we say that that.
That's how you show your lovefor the fraternity.
Is you give, you give back yourtime, like those stated
meetings aren't always the mostfun thing, you're going to do.

Speaker 1 (01:01:54):
It's a HOA meeting.
Sometimes, man, it's that'skind of how it feels, but we got
to do it.
We have to do it.
We do it together.

Speaker 2 (01:02:00):
You try right.
Everyone's trying to find a wayto make it more interesting,
but at the end of the day, youcan't escape doing the business.

Speaker 3 (01:02:06):
You gotta read the minutes, thank you.
You gotta pay the bills, it'sjust gotta be done.

Speaker 2 (01:02:10):
But that's like how we show our love.
We come back, yeah, so goingback to my question.

Speaker 1 (01:02:16):
What are some of the challenges we talk about all the
time going forward?
I mean, one of them isdissension in the lodge, you
know, and our inability to dealwith it in house.
People going online and postingstuff about brothers and stuff.
But other than that, I knowrecruitment.
I know that there was a timewhen there was over 80,000

(01:02:36):
masons in the state of Floridawere just barely 32,000.
Now there's a lot of lodges outthere that aren't making it
financially and there's a lot oflodges out there, apparently,
that aren't making new masonsand haven't done so in quite
some time.
So I would assume those aresome of the challenges that we
face out there in the future.

Speaker 3 (01:02:57):
Well, no question about it, but but Chris is doing
a great job.

Speaker 1 (01:03:00):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:03:01):
With his, with bringing in younger masons.
I think people want it.

Speaker 1 (01:03:05):
They do yeah Once they know what it is.
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:03:08):
Yeah, and one of the difficulties when I was district
deputy Grand Lodge would sendme a lead.

Speaker 1 (01:03:14):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:03:14):
It was always an email, yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:03:16):
Right, there was never a phone ever.

Speaker 3 (01:03:19):
Right, right, and I'm 69.
I know how to use a computer.
I just am not.
You rather call and talk tosomebody right, let's get to it
yeah, right Right.
You get to it when you'retexting.
You're kind of, I think,talking around it.

Speaker 1 (01:03:35):
Right yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:03:37):
But that's just my generation and maybe that's the
way we're going to go goingforward.
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (01:03:42):
I think that once young men come into the Lodge
and they realize the value offace to face fellowship and
communication, getting into thelives of other men, they realize
that the phone, like you said,is a lie.
That whole, that whole virtual,the virtual friendships, isn't

(01:04:03):
real, you know, and I thinkthat's what they want, that's
what they, you know, that's whatthese young guys are looking
for is that camaraderie?

Speaker 2 (01:04:10):
you know?

Speaker 1 (01:04:11):
that they come in.
I think that's our biggestchallenge and the program that
you started and that we're goingto really really put into
second gear this coming year.
Man, we're going to really hitthat one hard.
I think that is a huge answerto one of the biggest challenges
we have you know is we're notmaking new masons.

Speaker 2 (01:04:31):
We can make them.
It's easy, easy, easy easy.

Speaker 1 (01:04:33):
Keeping them would be the second challenge, right,
let's talk about that a littlebit.

Speaker 2 (01:04:36):
That, in my opinion, it's like a tree when you let it
go for a while it gets brownand dry and if you want it to
grow again you have to clip thedead stuff off.

Speaker 1 (01:04:47):
Right, yeah, and fertilize it.

Speaker 2 (01:04:49):
We have to accept that if we're going to grow our
fraternity at some point we haveto clip the dead lodges off.
Yeah, right, and let the newones emerge.

Speaker 3 (01:04:57):
Yeah.
The other part of that, though,is look at my Masonic career.
So I got in line in 1990.
It became overwhelming.
I had to drop that line.
I hear guys all the time goingwell, they never come to lodge,
why don't we kick them out?
Well, if you kick me out in1992, I wouldn't have been

(01:05:19):
around in 2008.

Speaker 1 (01:05:21):
Yeah, that's right.

Speaker 3 (01:05:22):
To get back in line and actually got in two
different lines went all the wayto Worshpill Master and Beast
Beast mode Beast mode.
But people have to have theirtime.

Speaker 1 (01:05:37):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:05:38):
And we need, and it's the 20% rule we've discussed in
a minute.

Speaker 1 (01:05:41):
Yeah, 80, 20.

Speaker 3 (01:05:42):
That's right Any group 20% of people doing 80% of
the work.

Speaker 1 (01:05:45):
That's correct, that's business.

Speaker 3 (01:05:47):
That's social clubs.
Fraternities is always that way, but it's not always the same.

Speaker 1 (01:05:53):
20%, and that's what you got to keep in mind, that's
right.
Nurture those people and waitfor their time to come and I
think if you're, if you're, ifyour dues are current and you're
, you know, and you make yourdues every year after year and
you don't come to the lodge,you're missing out.
But you're not in my opinion,you're not at a deficit.

(01:06:16):
In my opinion, you're stillsupporting the lodge.
You've got something going onin your life and we don't know
what it is Like.
You said you had, you hadthings to do, you had, you had,
you know, you had a life to live, you had children, you had you
know stuff to do, but you cameback to it because they didn't
kick you out.

Speaker 2 (01:06:33):
Correct.

Speaker 1 (01:06:33):
Because they they kept you in it and that's what
we we need to make sure thatit's the guy that it's really
more on the other side.
You know, it's the guy thatjoins and then just comes in
here and doesn't want to get it,you know we want to change it,
or wants to change it or justyou know why wasn't I consulted?
you know that attitude.
You know how come nobody'stalking to me about.

(01:06:55):
You know where we're going withall of this stuff.
It's like, well, because itisn't about you, you know it's
about, it's about all of us.
It's about brotherly affection,you know, and truth and and and
relief, you know, and communityinvolvement.
It's not about one, one person.
That's the big problem Arethese guys that come in and,
like you said, they want tochange it.

Speaker 2 (01:07:15):
Yeah, or yeah, I mean .
So I'm a catechism instructoras well and I talk to a lot of
the guys that we bring in andstick with them, because I
become a catechism instructorand we bring a lot of young guys
in, which everyone wants.
But young guys have families andjobs and all so many
responsibilities on them.
In reality, this isn't going tobe something, like you said, at

(01:07:36):
a point in your life where youcan just pick it up and run with
it sometimes.
And so I'm talking to one ofour new EA's.
Just the other day he actuallysent me a text late at night and
said can we talk?
I would normally call himimmediately, but I had so many
drinks I was like this isn'tgoing to be a good time for me.
So I texted him how abouttomorrow?
How early.
And he said I get up at six 30.

(01:07:58):
I'm calling you, okay.
So in my mind I'm like here wego, we're losing a guy already.

Speaker 1 (01:08:03):
Right.

Speaker 2 (01:08:04):
No, this young man came into our lodge and is
finding everything he needed inhis life right now, and you'd
never know it.
Right you would never know it.
He's moved from another state.
He's away from his family forthe first time in his life.

Speaker 1 (01:08:19):
Wow.

Speaker 2 (01:08:19):
Only has the in-laws.
He's having twins, he's alreadygot a baby.
Wow, a lot of pressure.
And so he's here.
He came through on his own, hestarted listening to the podcast
, he's getting the biggerpicture and he's meeting a lot
of the guys in the lodge andhe's like I feel like I have
real relationships that I didn'thave since I left home, you

(01:08:42):
know he's getting a home here wemade a home for him that made
him feel safe, comfortable,accepted and encourage him to be
himself, Whereas at home it'snot about him, Like we've said
many times it's about my wife.
It's about my children.

Speaker 1 (01:08:57):
It's about my responsibilities Right.

Speaker 2 (01:08:59):
So when he's raised a master mason, we may not see
him in Lodge.
But I promise you we changedhis life forever.

Speaker 3 (01:09:06):
Right, right 30 years from now, he could show up.
He will show up.
He's a superstar.

Speaker 2 (01:09:10):
Yeah, that's right, he's probably dying for the day,
His kids go away and he caneven finally, I'm here, guys.
I mean, you got to look at thebigger picture.
You can't just look past yourown nose Like there's a.
This is a lifetime endeavor wegot involved in when we joined
the fraternity.

Speaker 3 (01:09:28):
And here's what makes it different.
We internalize it, learning thework that we do to get through
the three degrees.
The Lodge is in you.

Speaker 2 (01:09:40):
Oh, I like that.

Speaker 3 (01:09:41):
So long as you're paying dues you're part of the
Lodge.

Speaker 1 (01:09:46):
That's right.

Speaker 3 (01:09:46):
And if you don't walk back in that building, I don't
care.
No right, because none of usbecame master masons, well,
except for the one day degreeswhere we didn't in where we
didn't internalize that, andthen with the one day degrees,
the only guys that I've everseen that were successful went
back and did the work.

Speaker 2 (01:10:07):
Really yes, okay, well, their own choice.

Speaker 3 (01:10:10):
They said I'm going to learn those catechisms and 20
years ago I was at a one daydegree at Sears Sitalage and I
think 126 guys went through thatWow.
They did all three degrees.
What is that about?

Speaker 1 (01:10:22):
Whose brain child was that?

Speaker 3 (01:10:24):
Well, it was somebody going well, look, we got these,
these lawyers, and they don'thave the time to do catechism
and I'm going to have manyrounds of golf today.
Play a week.
I can teach you catechism inone hour a week.
Correct, Even at the fastestgolf course.
It takes you three, three and ahalf hours.

Speaker 1 (01:10:44):
Yeah, 18.
Right.

Speaker 3 (01:10:47):
You know what?
Take me golfing with you.
I will teach you the catechismwhile we're playing golf.

Speaker 1 (01:10:51):
Yeah, that's right.

Speaker 3 (01:10:52):
You can still do both of those things, so excuses are
going to get in the way, butbut, that's what differentiates.
I'm an eagle.
I belong to the moose.
There's none of that.

Speaker 2 (01:11:02):
Are you a turtle?
No, that's right.
There's none of that.
Are you a turtle?

Speaker 3 (01:11:05):
I am a turtle.

Speaker 1 (01:11:06):
Okay, all right, I am not a turtle.

Speaker 2 (01:11:08):
I hear we're going to get a turtle degree at one of
our esoteric discussions.

Speaker 1 (01:11:11):
Is that right?
Yeah, all right.

Speaker 3 (01:11:13):
Oh, I heard that too.
Yeah, I went through it so longago.

Speaker 1 (01:11:15):
I don't remember I didn't know about it 30
something years ago, but I can'twait to see what it's all about
.

Speaker 2 (01:11:25):
I've never even heard of some of these things.
The moose lodge I actuallywalked into a moose lodge by
accident when I was trying to goto a grandmaster's visit and
they looked at me like I was analien.

Speaker 1 (01:11:34):
I was like oh, I'm not welcome here.

Speaker 2 (01:11:36):
I guess I was just trying to get a little warmed up
for the grandmaster's visit,but I'll go elsewhere.
Thank you very much.

Speaker 1 (01:11:43):
I did a ride along with widow's sons early on and
it was fun.
We rode around all over town.
We ended up at the moose lodgein Inglewood and I swear it was
like a scene out of Pirates ofthe Caribbean.

Speaker 2 (01:11:55):
Yeah, that's where I walked in.

Speaker 1 (01:11:56):
I walked in there and it was just like you know
everybody was.
It was, you know it's 11o'clock in the afternoon and
everybody's just swinging fromthe ceiling man.
It was just like you know.
I felt like I was in Tortuga itwas like it was a pirate's cove
man.
It was like all right, I get it.
I see what the moose is allabout.

(01:12:16):
This is fun.

Speaker 2 (01:12:18):
Don't walk in with a mask on.

Speaker 1 (01:12:20):
Don't walk in with a mask on.
Okay, I didn't like that at all.
You had a mask, oh a mask.
It was Covid times back then.

Speaker 2 (01:12:26):
Oh a mask, right, right right, yeah, somehow that
was a political thing, I guess,at the time.

Speaker 1 (01:12:31):
It quickly became one yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:12:33):
Still is probably.

Speaker 1 (01:12:34):
I don't even want to discuss it.
It's over, and I'm thankful forthat much.
So let's move on.

Speaker 2 (01:12:40):
The hysteria is over for sure.
I think it's here to stay.
Covid, I don't know thehysteria, at least, is over,
that's good Kind of like the flu.

Speaker 1 (01:12:49):
I saw a mask yesterday.

Speaker 3 (01:12:50):
There's still people doing it.

Speaker 2 (01:12:52):
Oh yeah, yeah, I mean it's.
We had one in our lodge.
We had a potential junior grandwarden come and he must have
missed the mask.
He called me after and he saidhey, why didn't that senior
deacon want to be in the picturewith me?
I said no man, he had Covid.
He was trying to help you.
He's like oh okay, you know,because if you don't wear a mask

(01:13:15):
, people don't know.
He's trying to be responsiblein distance.
According to whatever theguidelines are today I haven't
checked.
They used to change often.

Speaker 3 (01:13:24):
I thought you stayed on for five days, yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:13:26):
Yeah, yeah, something like that.
Five days after you testnegative, five after you test
negative.
Yeah, but that's thing youmight not test negative.
I've had employees that nevertested negative like weeks after
they had it.
It's like you're still testingpositive.
Come to work.

Speaker 1 (01:13:43):
Yeah, right, you're fine, get in here.

Speaker 2 (01:13:45):
How do you feel?
I feel great, get to work.

Speaker 1 (01:13:48):
Now I don't feel so good, yeah, calling in.

Speaker 3 (01:13:53):
Well, I feel way too good to be coming to work.
Yeah, right, yeah, I'm goingfishing.

Speaker 1 (01:13:57):
That's right.
Well, right where it has been.
It's been a great conversation.
Anything you want to share withus on our way out?
What's next?
What are you excited about?
What's next for you?

Speaker 3 (01:14:11):
I just enjoy doing what I'm doing.
I mean, we do have a 33rddegree coming up on November
11th.

Speaker 2 (01:14:17):
Some people from our district are going to become
33rds.
Yeah, we do have three.

Speaker 3 (01:14:23):
So we're doing everybody in the state of
Florida, unless they went toWashington DC.
So, it's fun to be a part ofthat.
They all come to Tampa.
Anybody in Florida?

Speaker 2 (01:14:34):
Wow.

Speaker 3 (01:14:34):
That is a pick.

Speaker 1 (01:14:36):
Okay, and that's a conferred degree.
The final degree is conferredupon you.

Speaker 2 (01:14:41):
Are you able?
As a Scottish Rite Mason andbeing a nilodge that raises a
lot of new guys, they often askme about the 33rd degree and all
I can tell them is what I'vebeen told.
Just don't ask anybody about it.

Speaker 1 (01:14:54):
Do yourself a favor.
Do yourself a favor and don'task.

Speaker 2 (01:14:57):
Is that a thing?
Is that a real thing or is thata made up thing?
That is just persisted.

Speaker 3 (01:15:01):
The way I've always heard it is you're not supposed
to ask.
And if you do it precludes youfrom getting it.

Speaker 2 (01:15:08):
I'm not sure that it's always played out that way.
I think there's a differencebetween the curiosity of what it
is and how do I get myself thattitle.
Those are kind of two differentquestions, correct?
And are you able to talk aboutit at all the 33rd degree, what
it is, how you become one, or isthat a part of your application

(01:15:29):
in the 33rd degree?

Speaker 3 (01:15:30):
You gotta keep that high.

Speaker 1 (01:15:31):
It's a conferred honor.

Speaker 3 (01:15:32):
It's an honorary degree In the Southern
jurisdiction.
You have to have been a KnightCommander Court of Honor for
four years before you canreceive the 33rd degree.

Speaker 2 (01:15:47):
Okay, that's like a prerequisite to even be in the
pool of people that areconsidered.

Speaker 3 (01:15:52):
I understand that the Norther jurisdiction and I
could be totally wrong because Idon't belong to the Northern
jurisdiction that it's kind of ait's too past, like if you take
the KCCH you won't get the 33rdReally.
I don't know if that's true ornot.

Speaker 1 (01:16:08):
Interesting.

Speaker 3 (01:16:09):
But in the Southern jurisdiction one precludes the
other and they literally tellyou in the KCCH, which is not a
degree but a conferment, thatgetting a red hat doesn't mean
you're gonna get a white hat.

Speaker 1 (01:16:23):
Gotcha Okay.

Speaker 2 (01:16:24):
So when you get a red hat you get like some kind of a
ceremony that's more of aninstallation than it is a degree
, right.

Speaker 3 (01:16:31):
Is that what you're saying?
Yeah, yeah, and it's actually.

Speaker 2 (01:16:33):
They've been doing it publicly, so you get like a
charge or something where theysay, hey, act better or do this
or something like that.
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:16:40):
Okay, and they've been doing it in the public.
So if you want to see it on the11th, go to Tampa.

Speaker 2 (01:16:47):
They're doing the red hats and the white hats.
Yeah, on that day, okay.

Speaker 1 (01:16:50):
And this is from all over the country.
You said Florida, all overFlorida.

Speaker 3 (01:16:54):
Okay, florida, I'm gonna go somebody from another
state could come to Florida ifthey couldn't go somewhere else.

Speaker 1 (01:16:58):
I see, wow Is something happening with DMALE.

Speaker 2 (01:17:01):
I think I have to bring the kids up for that on
the 11th.

Speaker 1 (01:17:05):
Oh, wow.
Well, that'd be a greatexperience for them.
Yeah, I think we are bringingthe kids up there.

Speaker 2 (01:17:10):
Oh really DMALE chapter.
Yeah, I was wondering what wasgoing on.

Speaker 3 (01:17:14):
Well, I'll see you there.

Speaker 2 (01:17:15):
No, but my wife's family is very anti-Masonry, or
used to be.
And that's what they lordedover me.
That there's.
You haven't got all the degreesand I'm like one, and I highly
doubt they wait until you're 90to give you the secrets to be an
evil overlord.
It's not like they hand thatout like candy bars.

Speaker 1 (01:17:33):
Right, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:17:35):
So you know, I'm sure you can at least say there's no
lizard eating baby sacrificing.
Is it safe for you to say inthe 33rd degree?

Speaker 3 (01:17:43):
I can unequivocally say that I've never seen that.

Speaker 2 (01:17:47):
Excellent, right, yeah, there you go.

Speaker 1 (01:17:50):
Masonry In laws, no matter where you go in Masonry
how high you go.

Speaker 2 (01:17:54):
They teach them to lie in the 33rd degree Right,
right.

Speaker 1 (01:17:57):
Oh jeez, what you're seeing is good men trying to be
better men and trying to helptheir brothers, trying.
And that's that's the point,right it is.
It builds on becoming a betterman for yourself, for your, for
your family, for your communityand your brothers.

Speaker 3 (01:18:16):
I like the fact and in this time, in this country, I
wish more people wereinfluenced by this but the fact
that we brought Masonryoriginally brought men of
different.
You know they weren't atheists,they weren't all of the same
religious persuasion.
But somebody's going well, butthey all have value.

Speaker 1 (01:18:39):
Right.

Speaker 3 (01:18:40):
And if we could find a way to work together and just
ignore these things that we knowwe don't agree on, right, and
then work together for what wedo agree on.

Speaker 1 (01:18:49):
That's exactly it.

Speaker 3 (01:18:50):
Well, this country could use some of that.

Speaker 1 (01:18:53):
Amen.
We say it on the show all thetime.
You know where?
Where are you going to findthat?
Does that one of the this, oursymposium, at the symposium
coming up in January?
Get your tickets.
They can't yet, but soon, butsoon soon we have secured well,
we'll talk about that later onthe next show.
We have a keynote, we have akeynote speaker now, which is

(01:19:14):
awesome, but our it all right.
The question we're posing inour small, our short talk is
does masonry have something tooffer to this hurting country?

Speaker 2 (01:19:24):
And we're going to go through yeah, I think so too,
to all of our problems.
That's all.

Speaker 1 (01:19:29):
It just has a lot of answers to the young man's
problems in this country.
You know, young men are lostand I've been doing the stats
for this talk.
You know, doing a little of theresearch on the stats is not
good man.
Young men are really.
They're dying.
We're losing them and I don'tknow of a nation that thinks it
can survive without strong,well-directed young men.

(01:19:49):
You're out of your mind if youthink you're going anywhere
without them in the car.
So, and they're not in the car,they're killing themselves and
they're checking out and they'relosing opportunity left and
right.
So masonry addressesspecifically those things that
are missing in a young man'slife.
Who's out there struggling?
So that's, that's one of thethings that we're going to be

(01:20:09):
addressing at the symposium, ifI can get it together in time
and you will see you're going tohelp me, so that's why I know
it's going to work.

Speaker 2 (01:20:16):
It will happen, that's right.
I don't know if it'll work, butit'll happen.

Speaker 1 (01:20:20):
Right, we're full.
Send us out with a positiveword, give us something.
I'm sorry about putting you onthe spot there, but the sound of
the music and this is our outro.
We always blow it and we do itreally bad.
Maybe you could actually do agood one.
What do you got?
What do you got for us on theway out?

Speaker 3 (01:20:37):
Yeah, you did put me on the spot.

Speaker 1 (01:20:39):
Yes, I did, yes, I did.

Speaker 3 (01:20:41):
I want to say you guys are doing a great job with
this podcast.
It's uh.
I think you're reaching a lotof people.
Clearly, you got a lot ofpeople signing up and everybody
that I talked to, that listenedto it, loves it and loves what
you're doing, so keep up thegood work.
If you're not a mason, take alook at it.
It might not be for everybody,but I do think that, uh, for

(01:21:02):
most men, if they'll give it anhonest look and give it a chance
, you're going to get somethingat it.

Speaker 1 (01:21:08):
That's the best outro I think we've had to date.
Brother Chris, I will see youon the next one and if you've
listened to the very end, youare a hero to us and we really
appreciate you.
Send us your emails um at anytime, for any reason, under any
circumstances.
Fred at on the level of Fred,and Chris dot com and Chris at
on the level of Fred and Chris.

Speaker 2 (01:21:29):
If you have any questions for Barry the heart,
send them to us.
We can get them answered foryou.

Speaker 1 (01:21:33):
You got it.
We'll see you guys next time.

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