Episode Transcript
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Thad David (00:00):
Welcome to another
episode.
I'm here again with Timogen Tan, a Canadian veteran, a doctor,
survivalist, in fact, a loneseason nine finalist, and we had
him on previously.
If you didn't check out hisprevious episode, you need to
check it out.
It's an incredible interview.
He shares a ton of stuff.
Timogen, how are you doing?
Teimojin Tan (00:19):
I'm great, so
happy to be back here.
Thanks for having me.
Thad David (00:22):
Do it, of course.
Well, and I know you had talkedabout it previously and we were
just chatting the other day andyou mentioned your new book
that's getting ready to getreleased Currently.
The name is going to beSurvival Medicine 101, your
first 72 hours.
Did I get that right?
Teimojin Tan (00:39):
Yes, super excited
to launch this.
This has been in the books forabout three years now.
I started in late 2019 and I'vejust been putting every single
bit of knowledge, both from asurvival standpoint and also
from a medical standpoint, andfiltered it down to what the
average person needs to know fortheir first 72 hours, and I'm
(00:59):
so excited to share it witheveryone.
Thad David (01:02):
Oh man.
Well, I'm excited to deep diveinto it.
I know just from you sharinglittle bits and pieces of it.
It sounds absolutely incredible.
What was the spark for it?
What was the catalyst?
I know you started a few yearsago.
What made you want to writethis book?
Teimojin Tan (01:17):
Yeah, I think we
talked a little bit about this
the other time, but one of thethings that I want to give to my
kids is basically a manual ofall the things that I find
interesting, all the things thatI'm super passionate about, and
I think outdoor skills,survival and medicine is all the
things that I really find supercool, and I would love my kids
(01:39):
to at least get a glimpse ofwhat dad's super excited about.
And this manual is for them andfor all the families out there
and to kind of explore theoutdoors and adventure with a
little bit of peace of mind andallowing people to not only
tread carefully but tread withconfidence.
Thad David (01:58):
Well, and I do
remember you sharing it quite a
bit, and just for anybody thatmay not have listened to the
last episode, I appreciate youcatching them up to date on that
and then tell us about the book.
I mean, it's the first 72 hours.
Obviously, the goal is to getout and read the book, but what
can you tell us about the first72 hours?
What's so important about that?
Teimojin Tan (02:19):
So the first 72
hours is a critical point for
rescue.
80% of most search and rescueteams are finding you within
those first 72 hours.
So, knowing what yourpriorities are, your gear
selection, things that you mightbe thinking, okay, I'm just
going on a day hike, which isthe number one demographic of
people being rescued.
(02:40):
They just thinking they'regoing on a day hike and
something happens whether theyget lost, they lose something,
they fall down and they getstranded for a lot longer than
their backpack intended to.
So we go through your survivalpriorities and I do take
information from differentexperts out there well known
(03:01):
people like Dave Canterbury andI put a little bit of my two
cents on it because there issurvival, definitely, but when
you look on it from a rescuestandpoint, from a medical
standpoint, there is a littlebit of things that are lacking
in that information.
So I'm hoping to fill that void, fill that gap, and to allow
(03:22):
people to understand survivaland the physiology behind it a
little more deeply.
So that kind of bleeds into thetype of kit they choose, the
type of priorities theyprioritized and also how they
adapt and improvise.
Because once you know thescience behind things, then
you're like, okay, I need this,I know how to make it, and that
(03:44):
just changes the game, becauseyou go from being helpless to
like, oh yeah, I need that onething and I know how to make it.
So it really turns thingsaround, and that's what I'm
hoping for for the audience.
Thad David (03:55):
All right, it's
excellent, it's funny.
It just made me think of justyesterday.
I was doing a workout with mywife and this family friend of
ours that our kids play together, and we were doing this workout
and I was sharing with themthis marathon that I'm doing
next weekend, and they startedtelling me about this woman that
was out trail running and shewas on just a normal trail run
(04:17):
and ended up getting caught onthis massive forest fire.
It was a huge ordeal, but Ithink it made me think of it
when you just said that it's thevast majority of people that
are.
Just I was out on a day hikeand then, all of a sudden, here
I am, and so this is stuff thatwe need to know, because if I'm
just out on a day hike, you aremore than likely going to be one
of those people that aresusceptible to it.
(04:38):
All right, so what would be yourgo to?
I mean, what's the first thingonce you realize you're in just
this?
We're in the middle of it,something bad's happening.
I'm going to be waiting for arescue.
What are the top things thatcome to your mind right away
that you're like we got to makesure this is good, because for
me I was, and what makes me askis I was thinking 72 hours, I
mean, how long can?
We can usually survive for apretty long time without food
(04:59):
and water.
So is that a problem?
And obviously I don't know.
I'm asking you as theprofessional what are the go to
things you're looking for?
Teimojin Tan (05:04):
Absolutely so.
The things that will probablykill you in minutes are
immediate medical issues, butalso panic A lot of people, when
they first realize that they'relost or something bad happened,
their blood rushes, they getthat tunnel vision, they're in
the black and sometimes they'rejust running forward.
And sometimes forward is notthe direction you need to go.
(05:26):
You can get lost even further,you can fall down and injure
yourself.
So, knowing how tosystematically go through okay,
this is my priority one, two,three, four, five of a medical
emergency and once that's okay,really taking that breath in and
controlling your emotions toshift from that emotional state
to that thinking state,developing a plan and then
(05:49):
delegating tasks if you havepeople around you, and then
seeing how you can signal forhelp, because ideally you want
to be out of there within thefirst 72 hours.
That's when the majority ofsearch and rescue teams find
people and successfully rescuepeople without fatalities.
Now let's say you have apriority of food and water after
(06:10):
a certain amount of days.
That's fine, but it's differentin different contexts.
So I would say, if you areincredibly heat-strokeed out and
you need some rapid cooling andsome water, that's going to be
different than your three daysof water.
When you're conserving, you'rein a shaded area, you're all set
up so things hit you atdifferent times.
(06:31):
So it's always important tocontextualize things and to give
scenarios, and that's why notonly does the book go through a
lot of this, but a lot of whatI'm hoping to do in my online
courses is throw people into alot of different scenarios so
that their minds can startthinking of these things, so
that the guidelines are there,but your thinking is always
(06:53):
fluid.
Thad David (06:56):
And that's again why
you're the expert, because I
don't know that I would havethought about panic, but
immediately I could see somebody, because once you realize
you're, in that moment I couldsee a very, very simple
somebody's going to freak out.
Teimojin Tan (07:09):
Yeah, just take
one example like yeah, people
who've been in the militarylearning nap for the first time,
guy with the map, first timeleading, leading a troop.
Well, what does he do?
He keeps on marching on.
When did he take a knee andfigure out what's going on?
Right, we've all been there,we've all made that mistake and
he is like booking it into thebush, wacking through there and
(07:30):
he gets everyone lost.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
The same is only amplified withpeople who are not familiar
with the terrain, know that theydon't have a whole lot of food
and water and have peoplerelying on them, and they're
they were supposed to be thelead, the dad, the person who's
the outdoorsy person, and theyget everyone in trouble, and
(07:51):
sometimes they get everyone inmore trouble if they Let that
panic set in.
Thad David (07:57):
Well, and it made me
think of too, the moment you
brought up the land nav was likethat night land nav when you're
just out there yeah, you got amap and a compass, you know
trying to, you can't see fivefeet in front of you and you're
trying to navigate.
It's a.
It's a scary situation.
I would imagine that that'sit's a great thing to bring up,
because I could see it's gonnacause a lot more trouble for you
Right along the way.
So I'm curious as to why, whatis the why 72 hours?
(08:20):
Like, why is that the rescue?
Is it because they stoppedsearching after 72 hours?
Just, you know what I obviouslyI'm sure they keep searching,
but to why is a 72 that number?
Teimojin Tan (08:32):
so 72 is basically
looking at North American kind
of averages on how fast peopleget found.
So it's not saying after 72hours give up, like people are
can be found two weeks out.
It's just the likelihoodStatistically from rest, search
and rescue data out there is,the longer you're out there, the
longer it is or it's, the lesslikely you are to be found.
(08:56):
Is it possible?
Absolutely?
Is it Probable?
Maybe not likely.
Thad David (09:04):
Okay, and that makes
sense, that Definitely planning
on 70 and hoping that withinthat 72, knowing this now, yeah,
hopefully I'm getting myselffound.
Absolutely.
You would share two people thatthat are gonna pick this up,
that they're gonna get severaliterations of this book going
(09:24):
forward.
You're gonna be making someadditions to it.
What's that gonna look like?
Teimojin Tan (09:30):
Absolutely so.
This book.
What I want for my viewers isto come on a little journey with
me.
So it's first 72 hours, butwouldn't you want to know what
to do on that week?
One, week two, week three,let's say you're out there for
63 days like on a loan.
What is that gonna look likefor you?
We get into that scope oflong-term maintenance of your
(09:53):
health and Also long-termmaintenance of your mental
well-being.
So we go through a lot of thepsychology of things starvation,
what to expect.
So you know how hard to push,how to anticipate what you need
to get done.
So it is a spectrum ofInformation.
So first 72 hours and then thatinformation just grows and
(10:14):
grows and grows.
What I have right now is mymedical team going on for the
immediate 72 hour problems, theimmediate kind of a medical
emergencies, but after thatthey're gonna be adding things
like chronic wound care, likeThings that are related to
chronic disease and things thatyou should know how to manage.
And if it just prevents you oneER visit and waiting six hours
(10:37):
in the ER room, I'm happy withit.
So if you have that knowledgein your head to be like, okay,
it's not that bad, or I knowwhat to do, or I know when
things are a must-see for it fora physician.
Then that's kind of where we'reheading, and my challenge to
myself is can I launch this book, can I launch this business,
without any money?
So I don't want to pull awayfrom my family because we're
(10:58):
just settled in.
So I'm asking my Followers andmy viewers to come on this
journey with me and in exchange,I'm going to be offering every
iteration of this book for thefirst year before it's published
, to all the people who supportme in this process hmm, well,
and I what it makes me think oftoo.
Thad David (11:20):
I love that you're
doing that for the next year,
because I just did, and I thinkhis interview is gonna pop up
Next week.
But he wrote a book Calledkilling chaos and he talks about
that, the struggles thatveterans deal with when they get
out, and, and as we wereunpacking Some of it, he was
telling me all the ahas that hehad after the book was released
that because it went straightinto hardcover, he couldn't.
(11:42):
He couldn't go in and addexactly as a part two of the
book, and so that's what made mereally appreciate this is
you're gonna be able to add toit and all those little ahas
that you had after the fact.
Everybody that gets it early onis going to be able to jump in
and have those, knowing that,anything you add to it, they're
gonna get as well, which is ahuge bonus for anybody and what
I find fascinating is, even inNorth America, the climate, the
(12:05):
landscape and even thesocioeconomic kind of difference
between people.
Teimojin Tan (12:09):
Their questions
are different, their needs are
gonna be different.
So to compile that all into onecommunity to really get people
that information, that's, that'swhat I'm most excited about
learning about people'sstruggles or concerns and also
seeing what we can veryRealistically do with not a
whole lot.
So what can we find in ourlocal pharmacy?
(12:29):
What can we?
We can find out what we need todo with the Jerry rig, with our
own stuff, to get what we needout of that survival and medical
situation.
Thad David (12:41):
Well, and getting
back into because you had
mentioned panic, which stillstill really just shocked me
what does one do to prep it's anot panic?
Because it seems like that's.
It's so obvious.
To me.
It was a big light bulb likehow would you prep somebody to
not panic?
Because I feel like that's justa great life skill in general.
Teimojin Tan (12:59):
Panic.
What is panic?
So when you look at the brainparts of what is involved in a
significant emotional response,whether it's fear, anger or so
forth, it is a very deeplyrooted Brain kind of position so
it's almost automatic.
You know it is very hard tocontrol.
Now, the newer part of ourevolution and our brain
(13:22):
development, that's a lot of thefrontal cortex.
Once the emotional part of yourbrain takes over, it's very
hard for that frontal corvettecortex to operate.
So a lot of what you do totrain your mind to Listen to you
and to listen to your intent isto transition your control from
that emotional state to thatthinking state and there's many
(13:45):
different ways to do it.
I'll tell you what I typicallydo and what I typically
recommend to my students is assimple as what do we do when we
shoot?
Right?
We I think a lot of peoplewho've trained in the military
know how to box breathe.
Trained how to box breathe Kindof learn how to bear down.
And what's that doing is a fewthings, both physiologic and
(14:06):
Based on the tension network inour brain.
For the tension network you aresaying shit's hitting the fan,
but I need to focus on mybreathing, right?
So you're.
You're consciously making yourbrain think about one thing, and
that may be just breathing infor a certain amount of seconds,
holding it for a certain amountof seconds, exhaling for a
(14:26):
certain amount of seconds andthen holding it again.
And number two this comes intothe physiologic part is what is
that actually doing to your body?
There is a nerve that's yourrest and digest, your vagus
nerve, that goes from the baseof your skull to the majority of
your body.
But there are access pointsfrom your neck, so there is a
vagus nerve on your carotid bulb, which is over here, and there
(14:50):
is also tracks on either side ofyour lungs that go on the
inside of the lungs.
So actually, when we'reinhaling really big and holding
it, what that is doing is usingyour lung tissue that's inflated
like a balloon and pushing iton that chest wall and it
stimulates that rest and digestnerve.
Same thing for when that nerveinnervates all of our guts.
Why do we bear down before wetake a shot?
It's because we're increasingthe pressure inside our belly,
(15:14):
in addition to our chest, tostimulate that vagus nerve and
together that systematicallyreduces your heart rate, your
tremor, when you're trying totake that shot and you're
relaxing but also using yourbrain to focus on a thing.
So that's like two ways toreally calm down very
immediately.
In the meditation realm, again,you're training your attention,
(15:37):
so ideally you want to beincorporating as much senses as
possible.
People call it grounding, thatform of meditation.
So what I really liked aboutone of my mentors he said and
this is for medical people, hehad no military background or
whatsoever but an ER situation,a surgical situation, a trauma
situation, is quite scary,especially for people doing it
(15:58):
for the first time.
And you feel it becauseeveryone's looking at you for
answers and you might be a veryyoung intern with zero
experience and someone'sactively dying in front of you.
So the first thing that he toldme is to catch your breath and
that reminds you to do that boxbreathing, to do whatever
breathing exercise that you'vedecided is going to be your
(16:19):
go-to.
And number two, get your footing.
So that mean some people whenthey're nervous they kind of
feel a little bit wobbly.
But what his meaning is to feelhow your feet feel in your
shoes, how your shoes feel onthe ground.
Again, you're bumping yourattention from your breathing to
the ground, to your feet.
And then he said check in withyour heart, just feel how fast
(16:43):
your heart's beating, how hardit's beating, and just recognize
it, to acknowledge that it's astressful situation.
But again, you're training yourmind to bump into different
attention points that youconsciously say.
This is what I want you to doright now.
And the two part of checking inwith your heart is checking in
with your purpose or your reasonto do whatever it is that may
be your mission, the personyou're fighting to come home to,
(17:04):
the person that means the worldfor you that you want to
protect.
And then this doesn't need totake a long time.
In reality, when I'm running acode, this literally takes me on
the scale of seconds, so lessthan 10 seconds.
But once you're able to do that, then you can control your
attention to be like OK, this iswhat I want you to do next and
that next part is what I teachin the book your survival
(17:26):
priorities and more specifically, even before things become a
survival priority, is what areyour medical priorities?
So we go through the Marchalgorithm and the adjusted March
algorithm, which I called March, which I include as extended
exposure, and also debility,which correlates with how we
treat a trauma in the civilianside, because there are some
things in the March algorithm onthe military side that we don't
(17:49):
necessarily go through on thecivilian side.
So I extend that so that ourviewers have a huge, huge range
for what they're able toevaluate and address.
Thad David (18:00):
That's absolutely
incredible and I know you
mentioned earlier from thetrauma side that if somebody can
just avoid a trip to the ER youknow unnecessary trip to the ER
that immediately my mind wentto.
I have a three-year-old and afive-year-old running around and
I don't know what it.
Every now and again somethingwill happen where I'm just like
OK, like we, and it'simmediately so it feels like
(18:23):
this right here would help mejust in day-to-day parenting.
It's really some good tools.
Teimojin Tan (18:30):
Absolutely, and I
think it really puts a lot of
confidence in many parents,because the majority of
emergency medicine isn'tnecessarily your traumas, your
shootings, your stabbings andall of that.
A good majority is theconcerned person.
You know you don't know whatthat red flag is, you don't know
why your body's doing that, andhaving a little bit of
(18:52):
knowledge behind that gives yousome peace of mind, but also it
gives you some power to yourselfand to your family as well, and
it's fun to learn about thescience behind things and that's
what we talk about.
Thad David (19:05):
Mm.
Yeah, well, I love it.
I've got so many great notes.
I'm excited to I'm reallygenuinely excited to jump in and
read this book.
What is your most exciting part?
I mean, what's the thing thatreally gets you?
Obviously, I'm really amped upand excited right now.
What part of this book, I meanwhat really gets you going?
What are you most excited aboutinside of this book to share
with everybody?
Teimojin Tan (19:26):
So what I have
come to realize and something
that I appreciate just greatlyand this goes across survival
medicine, this goes beyondeverything is the mindset and
also the psychology behind this,because it's often overlooked.
People love their gear right,they love doing all these skills
(19:47):
, but at the end of the day,what pushes you beyond what you
think you're capable of is yourspirit and your mindset.
So I just give some startingpoints for people in my book.
There are so many great gurusout there and books out there,
but my hope is that people havea foundation and a curiosity
after reading some of thesechapters to be like OK, I really
(20:09):
need to invest in training myattention, training my outlook,
and maybe it causes some peopleto reorient how they approach
life, and that would be awesomeif that's an outcome.
Thad David (20:23):
So it was really
intriguing to me and it's what
struck me with the lastconversation that we had.
I was not expecting it Was themental game side of it, and so I
love that you brought it up now, because it was even one of the
clips that I shared all aroundvery intentionally, because I
love the clip of what you shared, but at the very end of it you
had mentioned the power of usingthe words.
(20:44):
I am and just hit me with howbig you are with the mental side
of it, the mental game, becauseit's such a, like you said,
everybody looks for the gear.
What's the thing I need to goby when we're far better suited
to train our minds to be able tosustain?
Because that's going to be oneof the things that decides
whether you do or don't survive.
Teimojin Tan (21:05):
Absolutely.
I think the long term trainingfor your mindset, in addition to
some of the coping mechanismsthat I discussed, is redefining
your relationship with failures,because you can't have great
success without multiplehorrendous, gut-wrenching
failures.
(21:25):
And if you're able to change howyou perceive them, if failures
become fun for you which it isfor me I still get scared about
them, but I don't mind them.
They are almost like a game tome.
And once you're able to do that, and to do that regularly,
you're able to kind of shiftyour relationship with
challenges and outcomesblindsides, and it's very
(21:48):
interesting to see how youchange as a person and how you
especially how you change inregards to depression and
anxiety, which is something thataffects a lot of people in our
day-to-day society, because alot of people are dealing with a
lot of horrible things outthere and they just don't feel
(22:09):
capable, that they are able todo things.
And the only reason why I feellike I have a leg up is because
I've been through a lot of shitand it took a lot of time for me
to change my perspective.
But now that I have it makes mevery courageous for anything
that comes my way and it's justsomething that I wish I knew the
(22:33):
exact way to pass that on toeveryone, and the only way that
I know right now is to sharewhat I've been through and what
has helped me and what hashelped some of my close friends.
Thad David (22:45):
What and I really
appreciate how you shared that
but the redefining yourrelationship with failure.
What was it that caused you toredefine your relationship
Specifically?
What did that look like for youas you transitioned into almost
looking forward to it andworking towards?
Teimojin Tan (23:03):
it.
So just to give you somebackground on me, I was the kind
of kid that probably would havegone diagnosed with ADHD as a
kid following shiny things.
I had flat feet, crooked steps,I was falling all over the
place and I just started to lookup to people and to just like.
(23:25):
I think the one thing that Iwould give my younger self
credit for is that whatevershiny thing that I decided to
follow, I just decided to runtowards that, whether that was
playing soccer when I was theslowest person or like the
person that literally stilltripped on himself in high
school, but it forced me to beas good as some of the other
(23:47):
kids.
It forced me to learn thingsthat if I had confidence issues,
I probably would not havelearned, and it was that
accumulation over time that mademe say like, oh yeah, I don't
know how to do this, but like Iwanna do it, so I'm just gonna
do it.
It takes a long time or, if nota long time, many failures in a
(24:08):
short amount of time to get tothat place.
So I don't think there was onespecific moment, but there have
been moments in my life that Idefine as huge failures, one of
them being like a really badbreakup.
I'm not sure if we talked aboutit last time, but I basically
lost a lot of my stuff.
My dog was kind of taken awayfrom me temporarily and I was
(24:30):
left living out of my car.
So that was like definitely alow for me and I treated myself
as someone who was not worthy ofall those things, all those
basic needs, because of how badI felt about that situation.
And it took almost a year for meto recover from that.
But when I did, I realized thatI was worth something.
(24:51):
All that time, you know,because at the end of it this
was like my last year of medicalschool I did get onto my first
choice residency program.
So, telling myself, I was apiece of shit getting into that
program, I was like, oh, youmust be not that bad, you know,
maybe we should change a fewthings, you know.
So I think from that point on Iwas better at forgiving myself
(25:15):
and better at being kind tomyself.
So maybe that was my one thingin the recent future or the
recent past.
Thad David (25:24):
I do remember you
sharing pieces of that and that
specific instance in the lastinterview and I'm glad you
brought it up again becausethat's such a big thing to pull,
especially if somebody hasn'tdidn't listen to the last one,
but I think it's such a greatthing to bring up and it made me
think of the.
I believe it was Berné Brown.
(25:45):
I don't know if you follow anyof her stuff, but she's got some
pretty awesome content, somereally good books.
But she had.
It was something so simple.
She talked about makingpancakes.
And like everybody knows, likeif you've ever made pancakes
ever.
You get the pan going, you mixup the batter and you throw the
first pancake down and it's justit's always not the right
(26:07):
pancake.
You know.
You flip it and it's just it'snot right.
And you got to adjust the firea little bit, you got to tweak
it and you do the second one andit's like, ah, that one's
better, but by the third oneit's good.
Like we're ready to roll.
Like I can start scanning outlike pancakes are ready to go
and choose.
Like that's kind of how lifegoes.
Is you throw the first one down?
You can't expect this to beperfect.
It's not going to be great.
I love it, but far too oftenmost people don't even want to
have that failed pancake to getstarted, and so I love that.
(26:29):
Just redefining yourrelationship with failure is a
beautiful, beautiful thing, Ithink.
Teimojin Tan (26:35):
No yeah, please.
One thing that I saw recentlywas setting goals.
You know one, just like two orfour words one day or day one,
you know.
So a lot of people don't wantto do that day one and I think
that just that four or fivewords changes everything.
(26:59):
You know one day or day one,you know.
You say that you make thatdecision, flip a coin and you
just start, you know.
And I love that becausesometimes my greatest successes
were because I was not preparedand I was like all right, day
one.
Thad David (27:16):
Yes, that's amazing.
Such a great piece.
I've never heard that onebefore and I love that one day
or day one, whereas most peoplesit there and saying, one day
I'll do this, which is a greatthing.
Well, how much time do youspend on the note of goals?
How much time do you personallyspend with goal setting, and
(27:38):
how important is that for you?
Teimojin Tan (27:40):
I try to wake up
with a goal in mind and I also
go to sleep, and I did this veryaggressively when I was on a
loan and I am coming to realizethat I need to do it more in my
regular day life, because I lovehow many things I could get off
that list and also to feelaccomplished with my day-to-day
things.
(28:00):
So what I would do is I wouldnumber one, list out the things
that I'm grateful for, justbefore going to bed and thinking
about the one or two thingsthat would make my life
incredibly better.
So what do I wanna do formyself, what needs to get done?
And you can go through whateverdifferent elements or categories
(28:21):
in your life, whether that'show do I be a better husband,
how do I be a better doctor oremployee, what are we doing for
this, this and this?
And you just pick that onething and in the morning you
decide what that one thing isgonna be.
It's like today, am I gonna dothat one thing for my health?
Am I gonna do that one thing tobe a better husband today?
Am I gonna do that one thingfor my business today?
(28:43):
And typically we have a hugelist of things that probably
don't get done on a timelymatter.
But if you just pick one thingevery day or changing how you
improve by 10% every day, that'swhere I see the most growth.
You have to get into that mindspace where you're consciously
making decision to get betterand without that dedicated time
(29:05):
five, 10 minutes in the morning,five, 10 minutes at night you
forget about it.
Thad David (29:11):
Yeah, when I think
that's how everything kind of
becomes that one day type thingis until we identify it it's
just one day, and then themoment you say we're doing it,
it actually becomes day one, andso I love that.
How much of the book is mentalgame related?
Teimojin Tan (29:31):
So right now it's
about, I think, five or five to
10 pages right now, but thatchapter is in bullet points, so
I need to expand that quitegreatly.
But yeah, it's something thatI'm currently developing,
because one thing that I findpretty interesting is just
business in general, orfinancial stability, and it's
(29:55):
really cool to see how survivalpsychology intermixes with, like
growth mindset.
There's just so muchsimilarities and I find it very
interesting because I'm not sureif you're in that space, but
there was a guy and I have hisbook on my desk actually.
(30:15):
So Russell Brunson is like abusiness person, right, and a
lot of what he teaches both onmindset and just business, I
used a business book to get on aloan, right.
That's how I got onto the show,using marketing tactics.
I learned from him and how Ishaped my mindset to develop a
(30:39):
business is how I approachedsurvival on the show, which was
mind blowing to me that the twocould even translate.
So, as I'm going through my ownbusiness journey, a lot of what
I learned from personal growthand mindset I'm sure I'm gonna
be translating into that booktoo.
Thad David (30:56):
And again that ties
to, I know you said the bullet
points and that's where, asyou're adding to it, everybody's
gonna get it, which I reallyappreciate.
I didn't catch the book.
What is that book that youshared?
I know you held it up.
You said yeah.
Teimojin Tan (31:12):
So this book is
quite interesting.
It's called 30 Days and thepremise is Russell Brunson went
up to a bunch of the mostwealthiest people he knows and
said if you had no money and 30days, how would you build your
empire?
So it's really cool because hegoes over so many different
(31:34):
demographics of business types.
So you got your brick andmortar things, you got your
e-com stores and just so manydifferent strategies on how
these experts in differentfields would make that first
million dollars in 30 days.
So it just gets your mindrolling on what would fit your
circumstance.
And that was just like one ofhis books expertsecretscom
(31:57):
secrets, traffic secrets allthose are excellent, excellent
books and something that got meon a TV show.
Thad David (32:07):
Which is wild?
Teimojin Tan (32:08):
right.
If you read a book and was ableto get on a TV show that you've
been admiring since you were akid, that would have been worth
your two, three hours reading abook right.
Thad David (32:18):
Yeah, for sure, but
I think too is so many people
and you get Jim Quick is where Iheard it from, but he always
talks about the differencebetween self-help books and
shelf help and then we buy thebook, we put it on the shelf and
we don't do anything with it,Whereas you clearly read the
book, did something with it andsurprise, surprise, it actually
works.
And, gosh, you want a TV show,which is fascinating.
(32:40):
What inside of it?
And I very much feeling a lotof what you said with how much
the survival mindset relates togrowth mindset, just in life in
general.
And you said there were so manysimilarities.
What are some of the bigsimilarities that stand out to
you with the two correlations?
Teimojin Tan (32:59):
I think stoicism
in general in both kind of
realms is a huge factor.
You see a lot of people having areally bad relationship with
control right, and if you don'thave a whole lot of control or
you don't know the path, you'regoing on going down.
There's a lot of fear that comesinto that.
(33:20):
So, in both contexts, justpracticing what you can take
into your own control whetherthat's your own emotions,
whether that's your actionsright in front of you and going
from there and whatever badnessthat comes your way, whether
it's, I don't know, not gettingthe loan you needed from the
bank or not getting the animalyou wanted on a loan Just
(33:47):
knowing that that doesn't mean awhole lot about who you are as
a person, routing things in youridentity and taking control of
what you can control and lettinggo of everything else.
And when you have all yourbrain output specifically on
things that you can control, theactual output of what you do is
(34:07):
so much more than worryingabout everything else.
I worry about things when theyare right in front of me
typically and when I have tohandle them, and that has worked
for me in multiple differentaspects of my life and I'm sure
it works for a lot of otherpeople in business and in
survival too.
Thad David (34:26):
I want to make sure
that, because I feel like I
grasp exactly what it was.
But you said people having abad relationship with control.
Would you mind, deb?
What do you to find that for us?
Does anybody listening?
Just make sure?
What does that mean to have abad relationship with control?
Teimojin Tan (34:42):
So, in my head, if
you have a bad relationship
with control or if you feel likecontrol or lack of control is
something that stops you fromdoing something, that is
something that causes fear inyour life.
It prevents you from actuallydoing something.
So if you're scared of doingsomething because you might be
embarrassed or you don't knowwhat you're doing, you don't fit
(35:03):
in, that is more detrimentalthan saying, okay, don't control
that, but I know how to walk inthat direction.
I know this thing, or I knowhow a person that knows that.
So I don't, I might not know itright now, but I know this
might be the step in the rightdirection and it may seem very
(35:24):
simple to say and it might behard in reality, but it may be
simple.
It may be just simple, you know.
If you take that fear away andjust like I honestly don't know,
and you're just willing to lookit up on Google or say, okay, I
don't know, but who might?
Is a step in a direction thatmost people don't walk and
(35:48):
that's how you get that leg up,in whatever circumstance Got it.
Thad David (35:54):
No, it's absolutely
just incredible.
I love it.
This is, I love the mindsetstuff and that's really what
gets me going and again, that'swhat I love to.
I really appreciate it aboutour last conversation it's
really cool stuff, especially tohear about how you used it
inside of a loan and how youused it in a real world scenario
(36:15):
.
It's pretty awesome.
Teimojin Tan (36:17):
Absolutely.
I mean it's the real world thatI think gets more people and I
think it's why a lot of peoplestruggle with mental health
right now is because thatmindset and, to be honest,
finance is not really taught inschool.
Like you net, like, if youdon't read it, you never learn
that and that's scary.
(36:37):
Like I see my family memberswho are a lot older than me just
like never diving into that,never taking control of their
own life, never realizing whothey are as a person or fighting
for what they desire, becausethey've never spent time to
figure out what they really wantin life.
You know that's a huge shameand I'm hoping that more people
(36:59):
take that time for themselvesbecause it's important.
Thad David (37:03):
And I'm very
interested in asking about the
personal finance aspect of ittoo, because I think there's so
much to unpack with that.
Somebody just recentlyrecommended this book to me with
Winning in Mind, just the otherday, a guy that I respect and
just a tiny he's actually one ofmy, he's one of the
marksmanship instructors insniper school.
(37:26):
Really, oh yeah, so somebodyjust hold up in a really really
high level.
But he recommended this bookand the guy's an Olympic the
author, olympic athlete, goldmedalist, world champion and
rifle shooting and he said afterhe won the Olympics he got
really depressed.
And he said the number onething is he spent so much time
(37:47):
with this big goal in mind thatthe moment he achieved the goal,
it was like almost immediatelyhe was just depressed and it was
because he didn't put that nextgoal up.
So he even goes so far as tosay, like, put the goal out
there that you want to hit andthen also know what your next
goal is going to be too.
So that way, when you don't getbogged down afterwards because
you're going to hit that goaland get depressed with it, and
(38:08):
so it's really important.
It's cool to hear it fromdifferent people on different
levels.
Teimojin Tan (38:13):
Absolutely Like.
I think having peaks andvalleys and having that target
is so important becauseotherwise, what are huge
milestones like as a regularperson living in North America,
right, is it getting your firstcar?
Is it getting married?
Is it having kids?
And that might be, that mightbe the thing for people, but
(38:35):
there's just so much time inbetween, right to make that life
exciting, worthwhile.
And some people think ambitionis a bad thing, but I absolutely
love it.
It keeps me going.
Thad David (38:50):
What do you think?
Some people think it's a badthing.
Teimojin Tan (38:52):
You know, I think
a lot of people, especially very
wealthy people and this mightbe their own personal kind of
battles is how are theybalancing between being a
multimillionaire, a billionaire,and being a good parent or
being a good family person andthat's definitely something that
we see all the time like howmany millionaires get divorced?
How many actors and famouspeople go through marital issues
(39:16):
?
And how often are people reallywanting to be a better partner
or actively doing things to beas good of an Olympian, a
business person, as a good dador a partner?
Are they actively saying like,hey, my wife or my kids really
need this, or I should be thisperson to do this?
I feel like ambition in thatsense where it's just related to
(39:41):
one singular goal that doesn'tnecessarily elevate your whole
unit, maybe an issue, and a lotof people have a lot of my
family have caution and theydon't just focus on this,
because a lot of people in ourfamily are divorced, so they
already know that that focus canbe detrimental.
Thad David (40:06):
And I always.
What it just made me think of,too, is getting back to that one
day thing.
There's so many people sittingin that one day mindset is
looking at ambition as a badthing.
It makes my one day mentalityalso okay.
It makes it okay for me to sitin the space of not making it
day one.
I'm sure there's a ton of stuff.
(40:27):
And back to the survival natureof it.
You can't put any one person ina box as we unpack any of these
conversations, but it's reallyreally great stuff.
I love all of this stuff.
I really appreciate youstepping in.
I'd love for you to share.
Where can people find your book?
(40:49):
Where can they find thiscontent?
I know that it's going to bereleased here pretty soon.
Where is it they can find you.
Where can they find your bookso they can get their hands on
it?
Teimojin Tan (41:01):
So all my content,
all my contact information is
on wwwsurvivaldoctorscom and itshould be labeled as Field Guide
.
So pick it up.
People who want to just testand see what the first few
chapters are, you are more thanwelcome to.
Again, I will be sending out afree copy to about 20 to 40
(41:23):
people to get some activefeedback in that first
pre-launch period.
Then afterwards, a month later,the first buyer for that ebook
will have every single iterationfrom now to the end of time.
Thad David (41:37):
Well, I would love
to get on the list to have one
of those.
Just to jump in man, because Ireally appreciate it and just
love all the information thatyou share.
And one final thing, just toget on.
I'm sure this is not, possiblynot.
I would speculate, althoughI've already been wrong before.
(41:59):
But the personal financejourney.
You mentioned that they don'tteach it in schools.
What messaging, what thoughtsdo you have about just personal
finance in general and how thatimpacts?
I mean, because I would imaginethis gets back into the
emotional state people's panic,how quickly they panic.
What thoughts do you have aboutgetting your personal finances
(42:19):
in order?
Teimojin Tan (42:21):
So my uncle's
visiting from Augusta right now
and one of the things that henoticed was there's a religious
group that puts personal financeand responsibility and
stability as part of theiractual religion.
They put it right next to goingto church, and I honestly think
that that's how important thatconcept is, because what is the
(42:45):
number one thing that peoplefight on in a marital thing?
It's finances.
What are something that candrastically change your life,
your kids and your legacy istypically finances.
So getting straight on that andgetting educated, because the
government isn't necessarily setup in a way to pump people out
(43:05):
for success in that regard.
They're not training everyoneto be millionaires or
billionaires, and that kind ofpresents itself in the tax code.
That presents itself in oureducation system and how our
education system is billed and,to a certain extent, a lot of
aspects of regular society aswell.
So spending that time toeducate yourself in how to save
(43:29):
on taxes, how to structure yourbusiness or your finances, or
even, like myself, I work as anemployee how do I make sure that
every dollar that I am workingfor goes to my family and goes
to things that I care about?
So, all that being said, Ithink financial stability is a
survival skill set that you needto learn Absolutely.
Thad David (43:55):
What is your
favorite and, if you have one,
what's your favorite resourcefor if somebody was listening
and wanted to get on track withtheir finances.
What's your favorite resourceand you can recommend for
anybody?
Teimojin Tan (44:06):
So for physicians
out there, or even people who
are kind of new to anything,finance white coat investor is
something that almost everyphysician should own.
Automatic millionaire issomething that I've read that I
really love because it's veryspecific to American tax and
investments and retiring withoutlike a huge income and it's how
(44:31):
my parent in-laws retired asteachers in their 50s, so like a
lot of what they teach.
I was just talking out loud tothem and they're like, oh yeah,
we did that.
I was like, oh shit, this bookworks, which is really cool, and
from a business standpoint,definitely anything that Russell
Brunson puts out.
I really love reading his stuffand one thing that is free.
That is just unbelievable.
(44:52):
Why it's free is anything fromacquisitionscom.
So that's with Alex Hermosi.
He just came out with a book too, and I'm going through it
because he is literally givingyou a business course on how to
sell anything and get marketinglike on point for free, which is
crazy, and I love the guy, sohopefully my business gets to a
(45:14):
point where he would beinterested in me.
But yeah, acquisitionscom AlexHermosi, his old, solid dude.
Thad David (45:21):
He's got some
absolutely incredible content
and I love that following hisstuff, because he always talks
about making your free contentbetter than everybody else's
paid content and it's likewatching and he does that.
It's like how are you givingthis away right now?
And that's what he does.
And he's very transparent.
He's like that's what I'mtelling everybody else to do.
I'm going to do it and it's areally, really cool, just a cool
(45:46):
thing to see.
So I love that you brought upHermosi and it's awesome.
It also made me think of as well.
I read it in a book recently.
They referenced it.
I don't remember the twopeople's names so I don't want
to mess that up, but they talkabout this one dude that was a
(46:07):
just a brokerage firm, justmulti-millionaire, had a ton of
money, all the houses, all thethings, and ended up dying and
his family was in debt becausethey just had nothing left.
And then there was this otherfamily, that born at the same
time.
This one guy born around thesame time that he was a
gas-tasting clerk for 30 years,retired then, was a janitor,
(46:30):
went through that, just did thatfor the rest of his life and
died and his willy left hisfamily like seven or eight
million dollars and they're likewhat the and it just it's what
it made me think of and it'skind of what you're doing with
it, and to me that's the flipside that even if you are making
a lot of money, you need toknow what you're doing with it
and knowing that you don't haveto make that much money to
(46:50):
actually be really successfullong term.
But getting ahead of it,getting on top of it, is huge.
And, tim and Jim, thank you somuch.
I really appreciate you takingsome time and I can't wait to
get my hands on your book.
I definitely encourage anybodyelse that's listening jump in,
grab his book, get a hold of it.
You know what's going to begood and till next time,
(47:13):
restoration.