Effective Communication

This week we are on the road at Virginia Beach, discussing communication and everything that comes with it. How to have effective and healthy conversations with the loved ones in your life. From trust to guilt to forgiveness.

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
Hello and welcome to One Brain at a Time. I'm Dr. K. And I'm Dr. J. Welcome back for

(00:08):
episode two. Yay! I know, this is so exciting. And we decided to take it big. We're on the
road. Just you and I and our equipment. We're down in Virginia Beach and we're actually
staring at the ocean right now and it is absolutely beautiful. A little cold though. Yeah. Gale

(00:31):
warning this last week. And it's crazy too because I live in Massachusetts, you live
in Vermont and we're down here saying it's cold. I know. I know. The locals are blaming
us that we brought the weather down with us. So we have been discussing what we wanted
to talk about. And I know the whole mission of this podcast was for us to share our experiences,

(01:00):
not just professionally, but personally. And so a topic of conversation that comes up quite
a bit in our just everyday chats is about communication, communication style and how
that really tends to be the cornerstone for any of us, all of us. So true. That causes

(01:24):
disruption. So I was sorry to cut you off, but I was just going to say not just perceive
negative communication, but the inability to share intimate positive communication.
Absolutely. And just being able to share information period. So often when I'm working, I share

(01:52):
with people that the word confrontation scares a lot of people and they get all tight inside
and I can't say anything. And what I say to them is that confrontation is bringing something
to the table and what differentiates it from being a negative experience versus a positive

(02:13):
experience is your tone, your authenticity and being respectful. Yeah. And it's also
remembering that you're honoring yourself. And if the person means something, you're
also honoring them. Well, like we were, we were just actually having this conversation

(02:34):
a couple of days ago and how I feel like it's an epidemic across many people I talked to
that people get the concept of communication blurred with confrontation. If I had a nickel
for every conversation I said I had professionally or personally with people who I can't say

(02:59):
anything or whatever I don't like confrontation. Like that's not confrontation. That's communication
and how to understand when you use your voice in a respectful kind manner. That's communication.
Right? Yeah. No, I absolutely agree. And you know, we see it frequently on people who are

(03:27):
always really positive and very nice and that behind that you don't hear what their thoughts
are saying. And so what their internal system is saying silently and how they're portraying
it on the external can be really disjointed. Yeah. And that's not authentic either. Right.

(03:50):
Well, to that point, that idea of everything's fine. Yes. Everything's fine. I'm keeping
it moving. There's no worries here. And one thing I hear all the time, but I feel so guilty.
Guilt guilt guilt is the word that comes up all the time that people feel bad. And it's,

(04:13):
you know, it's obviously much deeper than that. But how guilt motivates people to not
honor themselves and not to communicate in the manner that needs to happen. Because if
we don't have honesty and transparency in particular with our closest people, then there's

(04:36):
going to be breakdown. There just is. Yeah. When I was doing, uh, mostly couples work,
it was always around communication, communication styles, how you hear and listen and everyone's
nervous system. Everyone's brain is different and how information gets in is different.

(05:02):
And yet when we meet somebody and we fall in love, it's, Oh, everyone just is supposed
to understand how I operate so that you communicate with me the way I need to be communicated.
And most people find themselves in that situation of realizing, Oh, I need to, I need to be

(05:28):
able to teach somebody me. That's what I say to people all the time. It's your job to teach
your partner you. And if you don't have a clue about that, then how are they supposed
to know? So communication, I often, I often say I'm not a couples therapist, but a communication
coach because all roads lead to communication and kind of speaks to, to, um, as you were

(05:56):
talking, I was thinking cultural context, gender context, how all of that plays a role
in how you develop or not develop communication styles or skills.
Now, and it's so true working with trauma oftentimes. Well, honestly, the majority of
the time I see that, um, the way that people communicate is really rooted in survival.

(06:24):
But the brains that I work with are the anxiety brains. So they're usually the, I feel so
bad. I shouldn't say anything. And it's this way of feeling that you're solely going to
tip another human by expressing your truth. And so when we go back in time, we can find

(06:50):
that spot or those spots where the human has lost confidence and belief and hope and trust
in themselves. So then the guilt comes in, in order to justify them not stepping up and
honoring themselves. Yeah. And I've had the opposite working with people who yelling louder

(07:14):
is what they think can work for them to get their points across. And both, it's interesting,
both show up in different ways, but at the end result is still happening that they're
not effectively communicating and they're not effectively being heard. I had this conversation

(07:37):
with a couple a few weeks ago and was trying to point out that when you're in conversation
and you feel activated, whether it's hurt, anchor, whatever, understanding that that's
just the doorbell into your stuff, how you proceed with that tells your story. And most

(08:04):
of us, me included, have been tied up in that thought of, Oh, they should know, or I can't
believe they said that or all that narrative stuff that happens. And the reality is, is
that most people don't show up for a conversation with the intention to hurt or to activate

(08:29):
or whatever. But you say that all the time with whose story are you telling? Is it yours
or theirs? And I use that I stole that. I use that all the time because it's so powerful.
I'll use the example. This is one of the examples I always use is I'll say to a client, if you

(08:54):
showed up to my office and said, Kristen, those glasses are goofy. And if I said, I
can't believe you just said that you did or if I said to you, Ooh, that hurt. These were
given to me by my mom. And they really mean something. Which example is telling the healthier

(09:19):
story? And then consequently, if you come back and it's like, Oh, my gosh, I didn't
mean it or don't be so sensitive or whatever. Is that telling my story or your story and
getting kind of a bigger picture conversation about the communication? Whose story is being

(09:41):
told? Yeah, I mean, honestly, I feel that we all tell our own stories, and that it's
up to us to decide how we respond in situations where we've been hurt. Historically, there's
a population out there that carries all the woundedness in the sense that they feel solely

(10:04):
responsible that they somehow had a role in why that person said what they said to them
or didn't invite them or they immediately go within and it's like, Well, I'm just not
enough. I'm not worthy enough. And then there's a population out there that is what I call

(10:27):
the fighter, the oppositional, defiant teenager who's like, screw them. I don't need them.
And they go into that mode, both of which is a trauma response in my clinical lens versus
a wow, you know what? I wish I had been invited to that party, but I'm gonna go out and ask

(10:49):
someone so if they want to do something and not in a vindictive way, but I wanted to go
out Friday night, I wasn't invited to this function. But that doesn't mean I can't go
out. Can I ask you when you just talked about the fighter and whatnot? Can both exist? Oh,
absolutely. And we fluctuate between the two. How so? Can you have an example of how that

(11:15):
sure? Yeah. So when you're talking about the people that are being angry, that is what
I would deem and not in all cases. I mean, there are certainly other reasons why people
can get angry or wageful. But if somebody can't manage ownership in a situation, so

(11:42):
let's go back to the eyeglasses. And you said, you know, my mom gave this to me, I really
they mean something to me. And the person came back like, Oh, come on. That person can't
manage owning their words. And so they've got to still make it about you. So they're

(12:02):
transferring the responsibility on to you versus somebody else would be like, Oh, my
gosh, I'm so sorry. Oh, I didn't mean to say that to you. It's all my fault. And then in
the silence of their mind being like, I am such a loser. I cannot believe I said that
to my therapist. I cannot believe I opened my big trap and said that. But this is the

(12:29):
dialogue. So there are people that go within and they'll say, I'm so sorry. But then it
doesn't stop there for them. They just go into self loathing and self deprecation and
continue to shame themselves. But I just what you just said about that exchange again with

(12:50):
the glasses, which by the way, I have very cool glasses that I got at Warby Parker, and
they are stunning. Anywho, if I said to you, say, you were the one who said to me, your
glasses are goofy or whatever. And I said, Oh, that hurt my heart. You know, these have
sentimental value. And if you said to me, Oh, I'm sorry that I wasn't I was just being

(13:18):
goofy and my apologies, I would never want to hurt your heart. And then both of us move
on from that. Yes. That's healthy regulation. Because you owned it. I broached it brought
it to your attention. Yes. And we both moved on. Yes. And I think oftentimes, and I'm guilty

(13:42):
of this of trying to explain like this dissertation as to why I've done something wrong. So the
only thing I would say is in response to what you just said was, Oh, my goodness. The last
thing I ever wanted to do was hurt your heart. Yeah. End of story. Right? Not I was being

(14:06):
goofy or trying to explain why you were, you know, it's just that adult thought pattern
of being mature and respectful, maintaining your integrity because we are imperfect beings
and we're all kind of mess up at one point or another. Always, always. You just brought

(14:27):
up and another kind of theme I see in communication as well is if I we should probably come up
with a different scenario than my glasses. But going back to that, if I said, Oh, that

(14:47):
hurt me. These are sentimental glasses. And you started going into what I call the defensive
tap dance and you're like, Oh my gosh, I'm so sorry. And just continue on. Like you were
saying about the dissertation that opens up the door for more conversation about it as

(15:09):
opposed to just keeping it simple and saying, Oh, no, sorry about that. That was not my
intention and moving on that defensive tap dance stuff, I think can get people into trouble
with communication. Yeah. I mean, again, from my lens, it's a trauma response because the

(15:35):
human has registered that they have made in their mind a huge mistake and in their body,
they feel that it's like life or death. So that the only way that they know how to help
the person understand their intention is to keep telling them more and more and more to

(15:59):
explain it. Right. And that will sometimes present as guilty. Well, the yeah, the person
feels immense guilt and this is motivated out of guilt. Right. But again, you know,
it's how did that person get to this point? Right. Well, that was what I was thinking

(16:22):
is we were talking about that because I can imagine listeners going, okay, this is all
great information, but how do we avoid all of this? And how much this is the million
dollar question? How much of that do you think is just innate in us? And how much of this

(16:45):
is taught or role modeled or the old nature versus nurture thing? That's a really good
question. Excuse me. Again, I because I'm so heavy in the trauma world that the way
I look at it is that we adapt and we accommodate. And so there's somewhere during development

(17:11):
that we don't have full brain potential, but we're smart enough to start testing out different
ways to function and to be in an environment. And if we get response back in a positive
light, then we'll continue to use that. And so it's understanding. And so often, you know,

(17:37):
I end up working with people anywhere from their late teens to well right now, 80 and
it doesn't matter how old you are. It doesn't matter what gender you are. It really comes
down to how you said earlier about processing, how we process things through our brain is

(17:57):
going to be different from each individual. And it's going to be determined by the functionality
of our brain and the direction in which the trajectory of diagnosis. So somebody who has
been diagnosed with depression is going to have a different response in processing than

(18:21):
somebody who's diagnosed with an anxiety disorder, just strictly from a energetic vibrational
rate, how they process it is going to be determined by the brain.
Yeah, I was thinking back on my own journey of communication and I adopted at a very early

(18:44):
age. If you keep them laughing, then that's the way to smooth the waters and then getting
into my relationship with my husband currently, my current husband, like I don't know why
I said that, but we will be together almost 30 years next year and how early on in our

(19:12):
relationship, how things that would trip my wire and I would get so mad. And what was
really happening was that little kid inside was taking that information in as not being

(19:35):
respected or prioritize prioritize that's, that's more of it. And how I would go to anger
and not be able to articulate what I wanted to because I didn't even understand what was
happening inside and how many times I would be like, you know, Oh, you gotta do this or

(20:01):
whatever. And now how freeing it is that if I feel some kind of tripped wire, I can say,
and this is what I coach all of my couples to do. I'm feeling some kind of way and I
don't know if it's my stuff, if it's your stuff or if it's our stuff, but can you take

(20:26):
a minute and help me figure this out and build more of a collaboration of communication because
I know now that just because I feel something, especially with the anger, how justified you
can become. You create all the narratives that justify they should have known and how

(20:50):
dare they hate. This was so disrespectful and stuff and it's just, it's just not true.
Well, what often happens with anger and let me just say that anger absolutely can be a
positive emotion. It can be the fuel that somebody needs to be motivated to, you know,

(21:12):
we often hear the stories of somebody that was told by a teacher that they would never
be whatever it is. And that became the catalyst for them to reach big. And, but anger is that
emotion where we regain the control and power that we're currently internally feeling that

(21:39):
we've lost. And you said it, you know, you felt, yeah. What was it that you, not prioritized,
right? And so, you know, it uses a way to try to manipulate in an environment, just
like the person who feels guilt. It's a way, I'm so sorry, I'm so sorry, I'm so sorry.

(22:05):
It's a way to diffuse and manipulate the other person to get the behavior that they need.
And I just want to say that, you know, what I tell folks is that we want people to change
when they are doing something that hurts us or makes us mad or turns us off, whatever

(22:27):
it is, it's them. And what we don't realize is that the only person that has the
power to change is ourselves. And that until we really fully grasp this, we're going to
keep pointing the finger at the other person to change.
Yeah, because wouldn't that be a miracle that in this life, everyone could change so that

(22:55):
we can stay comfortable? Yeah. I mean, that's really what our works about. Because if you
were able to have everyone in your life change to accommodate what you needed, we'd be out
of business. Absolutely, we wouldn't be here right now.

(23:17):
But think of how boring that would be that you wouldn't learn and grow about yourself
and get to what you always talk about that authentic self.
Yeah. And I mean that. And it doesn't mean that the journey isn't excruciating at times
and lonely and painful. But it's also enlightening and it's learning and it's realizing that

(23:43):
it's nobody's job to change for me. It's my job to change for me. And if I'm needing
something that I'm not getting from another person, I've got to decide that either I meet
that need myself or that there is a fair and equitable point in all of this that my partner

(24:06):
should show up. And if he can't, then it's my decision to exit the relationship. And
what I see often is people just, you know, hoping and wishing and hammering their partner
or, you know, please, please just do this or just trying to be the best spouse that

(24:28):
they could, hoping that they'll see them. Right. And that just doesn't work.
Right. And then I mean, you bring up an excellent point because that feeling of being on a gerbil
wheel in a relationship, whether it's romantic or not, and just or Groundhog Day, that you

(24:56):
keep repeating the pattern over and over and over, whether it's the anger pattern, the
heart pattern, whatever that why do we make it so hard when it can be so easy to look
and recognize that we all have capacity and sometimes where we're at in life, we've hit

(25:21):
our capacity and it's okay to move on. But the thing is, is we don't like pain as human
beings. And so we will try and fight for something over and over and over again. And we keep

(25:41):
this hope that it's going to work out and it's more on the line of a separation anxiety
that I don't, I don't want to leave you. I don't want to live this life by myself. I
don't want to. And absolutely it is painful saying goodbye depending on the level of relationship.

(26:06):
But if you don't have that relationship with yourself, then why and how do you expect anybody
to give that level of regard to you? That's such an important thing. And I kind of feel
being in my fifties now that how do you impart that understanding? I don't think I could

(26:31):
have gotten that concept in my teens or 20s or whatever about how important that relationship
with self is. And if it kind of goes back to I might have said this before, that my
golden rule that I share with everyone is people act the way they do because they can.

(26:53):
So if you're telling me that someone's yelling at you all the time, that's because they can.
And I'm not talking about severe situations of domestic violence and stuff. I'm not, that's
not what I'm talking about. But, uh, you know, if someone's not coming home at night and

(27:14):
not calling you to give you the courtesy to say, I'm not going to be, they're doing that
because they can't. If somebody tears you down and says, you don't know, you're dumb,
whatever, they're doing that because they can. And how do you have the conversation

(27:42):
or how can you, I guess I'm saying this because there are times where I feel frustrated to
be able to articulate it to say, you don't have to be in this relationship. You don't
have to have this exchange. But the, what you're saying is the fear of what's on the

(28:04):
other side, hold somebody there because at least the controlled situation. Yeah. That's
what I say that, um, we feel more comfortable with the devil. We know versus the devil.
We don't know. And that's in part why people stay. The other thing I've found is it really

(28:26):
when people tolerate disrespect, it's again, telling that person's story that they don't
have a core belief about their value. Yeah. And at some level they believe that this is

(28:47):
as good as it's going to get. So I can't lose this person. Right. And over the last couple
of years, there's been quite a bit published about the narcissist and path relationships.
And I just, I find that curious because it's obviously a dynamic that has happened quite

(29:07):
a bit. Sure. And you know, it's, it takes two people to get into that relationship.
Yeah. Cause I don't, I don't know if you've ever had this happen, but I have never had
a couple who comes into couples therapy who are the same person. No. In the sense of it's

(29:30):
almost like two puzzle pieces. And I always say, uh, newsflash, you couldn't be in a relationship
with yourself, right? Like a version of yourself because it wouldn't last. Right. So you're
drawn to people who are going to probably, uh, sweep you off your feet, but then also

(29:51):
push those buttons. And again, I don't want to focus on romantic relationships because
this happens in friendships. I was, when we were talking about this the other day and
I was thinking about friendships that I've had and how dynamics that were in friendships

(30:13):
were also dynamics I had in romantic relationships. And it wasn't until again, I kind of feel
like it's hard because you want to understand it all. But I think that there's just, you
can't rush wisdom and that there's an evolution that happens with understanding. Again, what

(30:36):
we started this whole conversation about was communication and what, what trips your wire
or what motivates you or whatever that journey of understanding yourself so that you can
then become a better communicator. I feel that, you know, we don't know what we don't

(30:58):
know and nobody ever shared this type of insight with me. Even in therapy, I, nobody ever talked
to me straight like this. And you know, that's a large part of why we're doing this. And
it's understanding that regardless of your age, you can develop healthy communications

(31:26):
skills and that you can get good with yourself. You can learn to believe and have the value
within you by taking the time and focusing in on you. We're such an external society
and we look at money and houses and cars and status as that we've arrived. But the truth

(31:53):
is, is that if you don't have your core in place, none of that is going to give you what
you need. It's not sustainable. No. What about pivoting on to communication when it comes
to the warm and fuzzies? How? Let me ask you, what would you rate yourself zero to 1010

(32:20):
being the best? How would you rate yourself as far as communicating the warm and fuzzies?
One day? Yeah. I would say I'm about a seven. Really? Yeah. I'd rate you like a 15. No,
I would say I'm about a seven. If I went back 20 years, I would say I was a 10. Really?

(32:47):
Yeah. Yeah. But I would say opposite. All right. Enough about you. What about me? Let
me see. What would I say? I would say I'd put myself at a five today. Yeah. I'd say

(33:07):
you're an eight today. Well, an eight today. What would you rate me? This is about to take
a turn people. I would have said you were five years ago, 20 years ago. Yeah. I would
have said I was like a two, but it's also this is also that same kind of thing because

(33:38):
the warm and fuzzies are just as important in terms of communication and how I think
I see just as much difficulty with that as I do the other end of the spectrum. 100%.
And that's why I'm saying 10, 20 years ago, even 40 years ago, I was always so nice. Like

(34:00):
I was until somebody wasn't nice. And then I wasn't so nice. Then my fighter would come
up. Oh, Rocky Balboa in the house. Which happened like maybe once a year, once every two years.
We would all say clutch of pearls. And for those of you who don't know my sister, she

(34:22):
has worn a strand of pearls since birth. She is never without her pearls on. So we'd see
those pearls swinging in the air. We'd run the other way. But you know, so I was coming
from this place of developing because I'm the oldest that if I was helpful, that I would

(34:46):
get positive affirming. And so that's how I learned how to survive. Yeah, well, the
ultimate caretaker. And so in order to do that, I always had to be thoughtful and kind.
And so that's where I say 20 years ago, I was a 10 because I was just, you know, so

(35:12):
into that caregiving role. And some of it is some of it was authentic. But with the
folks that I work with, it's about taking away the survival part that you believe is
all of you and really getting to lean on the part that you were born with. And so that's

(35:37):
why I'm a seven today, because I don't jump in order to get my validation in the world
anymore by people reflecting back that I did something good. What about saying I love you?
Oh, that's a good one. Yeah. I think that's, you know, definitely in part a cultural slogan.

(36:06):
I think it's, you know, it depends, you know, like with my kids, when I say and my niece
or child, I'll say I love you more because I love them more to the sky to the moon. And
I mean it with every cell in my body. Yeah. But I think that just like any other language,

(36:30):
you know, we can use it. And sometimes there isn't the authenticity behind it. Yeah. The
idea of being vulnerable and communicating the warm and fuzzies. It's an interesting
thing too, because actually, kind of a sidebar from that, you and I have noticed that being

(36:56):
down here in Virginia, how nice everyone is. Yes. And when we're back home, you don't get
the warm and fuzzies like you do down here. And so from a cultural standpoint, it's interesting
just even going to a different place in the country and seeing how easily accessible,

(37:20):
and respectful communication is just ingrained and not that, you know, whatever. I know Massachusetts
has a really bad rap for her, but it is, I guess maybe it does have a lot to do with
how you raised her. I'm going to say that I think it plays out in different ways in

(37:46):
Vermont. Somebody, if you know, there's snow and you slide off the road, somebody may pull
over and, you know, just say, Hey, I'll pull you out and might not approach you with, hi,
how are you doing today? I'll take care of you. Right. But they're being kind, they're

(38:07):
helping their neighbor out. And it's just, I think what we're experiencing down here
is more of the verbal and the nonverbal of a smiling face and engaging in an upbeat tempo,
which makes you process that they're happy to talk with you or to see you or to engage

(38:33):
in, you know, pleasantries. Right. And it's interesting too, that just that emotional
intimacy in communication, how many I had a couple in about a year ago who had been
married 40 years. And when we were starting to cover communication styles and stuff, the

(38:59):
warm and fuzzies, it was so fascinating how one partner felt the warm and fuzzies, but
to articulate it was like, Nope, Nope, can't do it, won't do it, that kind of thing. And
the other partner was like, but that's what I need to feel connected or whatnot. So we

(39:23):
did a lot of work around getting comfortable with that and being able to, I love you, you
know, just, just being able to be okay with the warm and fuzzies. I've usually found that
when a person is struggling with that, that they grew up in an environment that there

(39:46):
weren't the warm and fuzzies. Yes. A hundred percent. So it's not like you said that they
don't feel it. They just were never taught how to express it. Yeah. It kind of makes
me think about the, you and I were just talking about this, the love language. Who's that

(40:07):
by Gary Chapman, I think. Yeah, I'm not sure. If anyone who's listening has not taken the
love language quiz, it's free online. I don't know. I think if you just Google love language
quiz, it'll probably come up and it talks about the five ways that we all experience

(40:33):
the warm and fuzzies, I guess is what I could say love language and how for me, I was telling
you earlier that acts of service. So my husband, if he, you know, is like, Oh, what do you

(40:54):
want for dinner? I'll pick it up. Or, uh, we had talked about him picking us up at the
airport when we fly home. Like that is how I feel loved. And I am so grateful. And I
tell my husband all the time, I love him and such, but to know how you experienced that

(41:18):
is especially from the topic today, communication. Because if I was that type of person who needed
words of affirmation, someone who needed to be told and reiterated how much they're loved
or appreciated. And he was doing things like picking me up thinking he was expressing love

(41:42):
or you know, whatever that we would be off kilter. So that is one thing I would offer
to anyone listening, do yourself a favor and take the love language quiz because it can
give you some real good insight on how again to teach your partner you.

(42:02):
Yeah. And I also want to say that it's never too late to learn. And so, you know, what
I say to folks is, you know, perhaps in the beginning, you've got to write yourself notes
as a reminder because it's not something that has been practiced. And that's how we learn
is through repetition. But if you commit to it and you practice it and you remind yourself

(42:29):
that eventually it's going to become second nature to you.
Yeah. So wrapping up this discussion on that communication, I want people to have some
concrete tools walking away. One of the things I think that's really important is understanding

(42:50):
that in the art of communication, it's knowing thyself and understanding if there are things
that trigger tone, words, emotions, any of that really getting to understand what that

(43:10):
is for you. Because as soon as our wires tripped, it's physiology. I mean, talk about neurobiology
you go into survival mode and you literally stop cognitively being able to process what
somebody is saying. They turn into Charlie Brown's teacher and yeah, it really affects

(43:35):
your ability to communicate.
So what you're talking about is you go into survival mode. So you either go into the fighter
or the fleer. And the fleer is usually the, I'm so sorry, what can I do? I won't do this
again. I promise I won't do this again. And the fighter will be, you know, what's your

(43:59):
problem? Why? You know, this is not acceptable. Why aren't you doing this? So it's understanding
that although these words can hurt at times, it's really the response of something that
has been activated within that human being that's displaying this level of behavior.

(44:23):
Yeah. And again, keeping it in context, like today I was driving and I, I accidentally
pulled out into a road and didn't see a person on their motorcycle and they were kind of
shouting at me, that's normal. You know, and then they moved on and I'm sure they forgot

(44:50):
about me. So in the context of kind of within normal limits of emotions and stuff, and certainly
by no means that if one is ever in a conversation or communication with somebody who is abusive
or disrespect, you know, this doesn't apply to you. But I also, since you're bringing

(45:15):
this up, it's making me think about gaslighting. And so that's a form of communication. And
oftentimes the person who is the prime picking because they don't have their core and they
feel guilty, they believe the words of another. And so the gaslighting is an abusive form,

(45:39):
but because it's words, people don't really identify it as abusive. And what happens over
time is it absolutely beats down another person and they start second guessing who they are.
Right. Word smithing to the degree that you are able to get somebody to believe that actually

(46:03):
you're the problem. Yes. Yeah. And so that's a whole nother level of conversation with
communication. But I just wanted to clarify, see practicing communication that what you
and I were talking about today is just kind of the norm. Yes, norm of variation of communication.
So any advice you have for somebody who might be struggling with the concept of communication?

(46:37):
So one of the things that I look at when I'm working with somebody are their thought patterns.
And our thought patterns will create our communication patterns. And if you are in a place where
you're getting reflections back by a person or a boss or a partner who will say negative

(47:03):
things and take note of that if they're trusting and loving people because it's data and it's
not the essence of who you are, there's something that is disrupting your brain. If you're the
type of individual who has the thought pattern of, you know, I'm the problem, I'm the one

(47:29):
that makes the mistakes and people outside of like that gas lighter are not reflecting
back to you, then there's something going on with your brain. And I look at things as
mild, moderate and severe and you need to find a professional to really assess and evaluate

(47:50):
what's going on. Because if you don't figure out what's going on, then it could potentially
get in the way of learning new communication skills. Yeah. And I would also reiterate that
idea of if things aren't operating in the way that you think they should, then get an

(48:13):
outside perspective. And this isn't just a plug for therapists because my therapist has
been instrumental in figuring out how I can better communicate. And ironically, this is
what I do for work, but in my personal world, really being able to hone some skills because

(48:34):
like we said at the beginning, as soon as emotions start to rise in any direction, communication
can be interrupted. And so my tip would be if you are, you know, if the wires tripped,
take a moment, nothing needs to be solved right then and there. Take some space away

(48:59):
from the conversation and say, I feel whatever, I feel activated, my wires tripped, give me
a moment, give me an hour, give me two hours, let me get my thoughts together. And let me
come back so that we can have this conversation. So the emotions aren't leading the charge.

(49:21):
It's okay. We have time. And I think that's the thing. That's the biggest lesson I've
had to learn personally, because I used to be that person. So initially in a professional
capacity, if I got an email, oh, I was writing an email right back. And then somebody told

(49:43):
me give it the 24 hour rule, put it in draft and come back to it the next day. And if you
feel that same kind of way, then hit send. And if not edit, and then hit send or delete,
you know, but I think there is this adopted belief just because we feel something means

(50:04):
we have to act upon it. And I'm my suggestion is just take some time. Just breathe around
it because if our wires tripped or were activated, pay attention. What's going on? It's the doorbell.
Yeah, it's absolute data that we can collect on ourselves. And you're worth it. Yeah, you're

(50:29):
worth it to find your truth in who you are. And to experience this life with freedom.
Amen. And with that, as you say, experience freedom, I'm looking out at the ocean saying,
Oh, it is so beautiful here in Virginia. So thanks for hosting us Virginia Beach. Thanks

(50:53):
so much for joining us. This is Dr. J and Dr. K. Bye bye. See you soon.