June 27, 2023 • 48 mins
Welcome to One Brain at a Time! We are so glad to have you along with us on this journey. This episode, get to know us, Our Past, and what you can look forward to in your time with us! One Brain at a time is sharing educational, professional, and personal experience to increase the understanding of holistic mental health.
Hosts:Dr, K Dr, J
Production:Ian Noyes
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Hello and welcome to the first episode of One Brain at a Time.
(00:13):
Good morning folks, glad you're here.
I'm Dr. K.
And I'm Dr. J.
We're sisters who are on a mission of spreading the word about mental health and wellness.
We had talked about doing this, actually you were the one who had talked about doing this
for a while and I was a little resistant, must say.
(00:37):
It took me three years to get her here.
It finally is happening.
So this is really exciting.
So part of what we wanted to talk about this first episode is just why we're doing this,
what the mission is and we chose the name One Brain at a Time because it really makes
(01:00):
sense to the work we do in the mental health industry that everyone's individual and everyone's
brain has different needs.
And when we talk about the medical format of brain health, we've got to look at just
(01:20):
how we're made up and we are determined by the genetics that are passed down and we just
never know, you know, even with siblings, what their genetic makeup is going to be.
It could be 10 generations back that are playing out.
So One Brain at a Time is looking at folks from an individual approach instead of a generalized
(01:48):
approach that everybody is the same because it's just not true.
And I think just to get into us a little bit so that you all know who we are, I think combined
we probably have over 40 years experience, but we are siblings and so to your point about
(02:09):
the sibling piece, we could not be more opposite and more the same if we tried.
So it'll be fun to explore some of that stuff in the coming podcasts.
But for my part, I am Dr. K and my background is primarily a lot with kids, families, crisis
(02:38):
early on in my career, I worked as a in home therapist, which meant that I was going into
kids homes working with the entire system.
And that included schools, doctor, anyone who was involved in the kids lives.
(02:58):
And that was quite an experience and a lot of growing to work with over, I don't know,
I'd say 500 families.
So really given perspective on how each brain operates and then within the system.
But don't get me started because I could talk about that all day long.
(03:22):
And I'm Dr. J. I took an unconventional route through education.
I was planning to play division one sports, but my brain had another plan for me.
And I developed panic disorder.
And it derailed my division one athletic career and my academic career.
(03:46):
I ended up going back to school in my mid 30s and didn't stop for 15 years.
So I come from a perspective of anxiety disorders.
I've worked in different areas from school counselor to intensive outpatient suboxone
clinic, working with the military and law enforcement.
(04:11):
And where I am today is I specialize in trauma and anxiety disorders.
And so we just, you know, wanted to collaborate together to bring this framework to you folks
to understand that depending on what you're dealing with, you really need to know what
(04:36):
you're looking for in a provider.
Yeah.
And as we all know, the shortage of mental health support out in the community, even
pre pandemic, it was, it was difficult for folks to find people.
I was just told me recently that they were calling around and was told that it's a one
(05:00):
year wait to get into see a therapist.
And I thought, how is that even possible?
Because when you're in mental health pain, you need to talk to somebody now.
So that's, that's some of some of the motivation to behind doing this podcast, because what
(05:21):
you and I have talked about is that there's a lot of things that we say to folks to be
able to empower them to understand how their mind, body, spirit, the chemistry, the things
that cause symptoms, to do a deeper dive in a more public way, so that maybe just maybe
(05:46):
the right people hear it in fine comfort in the fact that no, you're not crazy, you're
not alone.
This is very common situation.
And hopefully, we can destigmatize mental, mental illness and mental wellness.
So before we go further, I just wanted to say that we worked very hard on coming up
(06:12):
with the mission statement for this podcast, and I wanted to share it.
So one brain at a time is sharing educational, professional and personal experience to increase
the understanding of holistic mental health.
Dr. J, could you define what holistic mental health is?
(06:34):
Absolutely.
So when I work with folks, I tell them that I work from a medical framework.
So whatever the issue or symptomology that they're experiencing, I'm looking at it from
a brain standpoint, our brain becomes dysregulated.
(06:57):
And it depends on what part of the brain is dysregulated will show what we call a diagnosis
or symptomology.
So when I screen people, I'm looking at their whole history.
It's not just the current situation.
So we've got to look at health, and that's looking at nutrition, toxins, any sort of
(07:23):
exposure to anything that could have impacted the brain substances.
I also look for traumatic brain injury.
Working with the military for six years, this became something very important to me to understand
traumatic brain injuries.
And what a lot of folks don't realize is that when the organ is injured, we culturally believe
(07:49):
that a concussion will heal by itself, but we don't know that for a fact.
And oftentimes people will have different thought patterns, different emotions, and
they just think it's them.
And we've got to bring this world into the medical model.
I think that's, again, going back to why we wanted to do this podcast that how many times
(08:15):
have you met with a person and it is the first time that they are talking about their experience
out loud and that how much have they carried for however long they've walked the earth
alone in navigating what those symptoms and feelings and, and when you're left to your
(08:41):
own accord, you can create narratives that just aren't true.
Yeah, for sure.
In the folks that I work with, the brains that I'm working with, there's a lot, a lot
of shame that is not quiet within them, but it's something that folks try to wrangle.
(09:05):
And part of my passion in bringing it into brain health and medical model helps them
understand that there is no intrinsic flaw within you.
There's nothing that is wrong with you.
We have to look at what has taken place to cause this diagnosis or patterns that are
(09:31):
showing up and derailing you from life.
And so one of the areas that I also screen for is trauma.
And I can't tell you how many people that I've screened.
And one of the things that I look for is in utero and birth and something that continually
(09:52):
comes up is birth where the baby is struggling.
So they'll go into the NICU for two or three weeks.
And sometimes, you know, months at a time and people think, oh, well, you know, they're
fine.
They're fine because they don't have memory of it and they had medical care.
(10:12):
But when we look at human development, we've got to look at the basics and trauma is encoded
through our sensory system.
So oftentimes I will find that it was, you know, having to be separated from their mom
and not having that 24 seven nurturing warm environment.
(10:35):
And it causes separation anxiety in the child as they get older.
And they just think there's something wrong with them.
And I'm like, no, yeah, makes perfect sense to me.
Right.
And to piggyback on what you were saying about in utero, I forget where I was reading it.
(10:56):
It was an article about research that had been done, I believe, in utero.
And it was such a strong link to where mom was while carrying the child because I think
it's common sense if you're carrying a child, what kind of things are going on with you
(11:20):
at the time might be affecting.
But the other piece to that I think is really important is what we were talking about earlier
when we do intakes or when we first start talking to people and how when those light
bulbs start going off in connection and how I mean, that's, that's where the magic lies
(11:46):
with the work we do and why we continue to, to do the work is to be able to have folks
understand how their brain operates and works in a different way and build that compassion
for themselves to say, okay, so you might have anxiety, but we're going to figure out
(12:08):
how to live with it, make friends with it and move forward.
Because having anxiety, I know I think this was something that you had taught me early
on in my career, about looking at anxiety and what's the positives that come with it.
And one of the things I always say when I'm doing an intake with folks with anxiety, I
(12:31):
say, actually, you're the person I want to be with at a concert, because you know all
the exits.
I don't have to worry about my safety because I know you're gonna make sure I'm safe.
And so having some humor here too is important.
(12:51):
That's where I come in.
Absolutely.
And I think it's just really important that going back to the shame component.
When people come into my practice, they're, they're just permeating and oozing out shame
that they have failed.
And it has nothing to do with failure and I just can't stress this enough that who you
(13:19):
were born to be isn't this anxiety disorder and then other people, it's depression or
substance abuse or eating disorder or overexercise.
It can go on and on and on.
It's about how do you survive in the world with a dysregulated nervous system and the
(13:40):
brain is command post of that nervous system.
So if you have an undiagnosed traumatic brain injury because you, you know, fell off of
a bed when you were six months old, you know, how, how are you to function in life with
(14:03):
unknowingly a traumatic brain injury that nobody's looked at your brain?
And also making a note that I think I was kindergarten when I fell and I just remember
hitting my head and whatnot.
And it doesn't necessarily mean that my brain had traumatic brain.
(14:28):
That's the point of this podcast that every brain is different.
So it doesn't necessarily mean just because you hit your head that that's going to show
up in a way.
No, but it's, it's something that needs to be screened because I can't rule out when
I have somebody that, you know, comes in with OCD or panic disorder or just overall generalized
(14:56):
anxiety that, you know, my curiosity is to tease out how did this brain get here?
And you know, I say to folks, if we take it out of the organ called the brain and we take
it into cardiac, you know, we don't have a heart attack, just wake up one day and it's
going to give out.
(15:17):
It's been years.
There's been things that have happened to that particular organ that over time has caused
it to go into crisis.
And that's the way I look at brain health is that, you know, it's not just one day this
happens.
It's been over time.
(15:38):
So I can not not rule out that there's an undiagnosed traumatic brain injury that nobody
knows about.
So if I'm just curious to, because I know we've talked about this, that it's still strange
to me that our industry is the only industry that doesn't mandate some kind of screening
(16:02):
of the brain.
Like if you come in and you say, I can't sleep, I can't eat.
Here are all these symptoms and kind of traditional mental health will look at the book of criteria
and say, okay, you meet criteria for whatever OCD or whatever.
(16:22):
And that there isn't that focus to say, wait, let's take a picture of the brain, let's scan
the brain and make sure that we're not missing anything.
So to your point about that TBI, where if you have someone who comes in, and you want
to rule out anything with the brain, where what's the next step?
(16:45):
Yeah, that's a great question.
So in my clinical work, I assess and evaluate is this brain in mild, moderate or severe?
So depending on where the individual is will determine my recommendation.
(17:07):
So if I have somebody who's in the mild and even moderate, I'm pretty confident that with
some intervention and specific intervention, and again, I specialize in anxiety disorder.
So I have a skill set that is specific to that diagnosis.
I helped get a company inpatient program off the ground, age 13 to 20, primary diagnosis
(17:36):
anxiety disorder.
And our kids literally came from all over the world.
And what I realized was that it didn't matter where you lived, didn't matter what culture
you grew up in, a brain is a brain with a diagnosis.
And so, you know, it's just it's so important to really assess where it is.
(18:00):
So a couple of years ago, I fell upon a gentleman by the name of Dr. Daniel Amon.
And to date, he's the only person that I know that specializes and he's a psychiatrist.
(18:21):
And he has used SPECT scan and that's an acronym, S-P-E-C-T.
And what it does is it looks at the brain and you get some real incredible information.
So when I have a patient that is in the severe zone, meaning they've tried other places and
(18:44):
I clearly see that the brain is not functioning at a level, then I'll refer to the Amon clinic
and get a clear picture.
And thus far, the information that has come back has absolutely substantiated why this
human is functioning in the way that they do.
(19:07):
And from what I know a little bit about Dr. Amon's work is, again, going back to that
traditional medical model, you go in, say you have a heart pain or whatever, they're
going to get quantitative information about the heart through different testing and whatnot
(19:28):
and then be able to retest to see whatever interventions are working.
And I think that's the frustration we've had in the mental health arena that there's
not that quantitative, here's the picture of the brain to be able to say, yep, this
(19:48):
area is not lighting up, this area is underutilized, that kind of thing.
And with Dr. Amon being able to have those images and then the intervention is driven
by that information.
So it's very customized, which brings us back to why we need this podcast one brain at a
time because it really is individualized on what can work.
(20:14):
I remember, I think I've read something or no, I think on his website, there was a YouTube
video and it was a man who had struggled with anxiety his whole life went to Dr. Amon and
then the intervention was going into a hyperbaric chamber.
Yeah, to heal the brain.
(20:36):
And how I want to say I was like 40 sessions later, he was anxiety free.
And but anyways, amen to Dr. Amen.
That's what because I think it's moving our our field in a different direction because
everybody seems to know about Dr. Amen and I, I refer quite a few clients in his direction
(21:01):
even to follow him on Instagram because he, he posts some great definitely cutting edge
in this field.
And you know, again, I go back to the shame that is within us when we deem that we're
failing.
(21:22):
And my research in the in my doctorate title is stress, biochemistry and food perceptions
of primary care physicians working with obesity patients.
And you know, I realized after coming out of that research that it really came back
to the brain.
(21:42):
Yeah, and that we have a model in this country that is just diet and exercise, diet and exercise,
but we're not looking at the brain.
And so it sets people up for failure.
And then the ones that can maintain the weight loss, they feel like they're the ones who
(22:05):
are successful.
And it has nothing to do with strength versus weakness.
It has everything to do with an organ that is either functioning on all cylinders or
it's not.
Yeah.
And that's where the mild, moderate severe comes in.
Well, we are definitely going to do a deeper dive on your research and follow up podcasts
(22:29):
because it's fascinating to even start to talk about weight in the diet industry and
all of that.
But I just don't know me that we haven't truly clarified our expertise.
So fun fact, my sister here, Dr. J, back in the day had called me up and said, I am going
(22:52):
to enroll and get my master's in psych and counseling.
And being the younger sister who will not be left out, I was like, well, then I have
to apply.
And so we did our grad school together.
And after finishing the head, same thing, my sister said, well, I'm going on for my
(23:13):
PhD.
And I said, wait a minute, you can't do that without me.
So we did our PhD together.
So we're both licensed therapists and PhD survivors, I will say.
And I think another really important point with the two of us is that we grew up in an
(23:41):
environment of what was considered holistic health.
And we were the only family in our neighborhood, probably a good 50 mile radius that really
wasn't allowed to have sugar because of how much sugar can cause illness in the body.
(24:04):
And so at a very young age, I was 12.
So you were six.
I think I was too.
This again, medical models surrounding food was introduced to us.
And with my anxiety brain, I held on to it for dear life because if it meant that I was
(24:24):
going to be guaranteed to stay healthy, then I was going to do everything.
This way of living was going to work.
Yeah.
And I went the opposite way.
I felt like I could have called child services because I was so grateful and you were feeling
(24:46):
so pained.
Arab covered rice cakes was our tree in the 70s and 80s.
Come on.
So I never had anyone sleep over because I always want to go sleep over other people
normal house that had Oreos and Flop.
Well, actually kind of to that point, I think and I don't want to go too far into it because
(25:13):
we're definitely going to earmark time to really do a deep dive on it.
And going back to that brain part is that how I didn't know that my own process trauma
and mental health and all of that, that sugar is one of if not the most addictive substance
(25:39):
in the world, but that it spikes serotonin.
So as a little kid as a little animal cherub, I was drawn to sugar because I was trying
to bump my serotonin.
And it's interesting too, because in my current work, working in the addiction world, how
(26:06):
how a lot of that conversation is when folks are getting sober, you're not just getting
sober from alcohol, but the sugar part two.
So it's a double but as I said, we won't get into addiction today because that's a whole
nother topic.
And so we have to pace ourselves.
We're like this in a candy store.
(26:31):
We could talk about it forever.
So just going back real quick about that kind of individualized model with brain health
and whatnot.
In speaking to what you were saying about our background in health, I am always taken
(26:52):
back by the lack of focus with intake or treatment around nutrition, around sleep, around.
I mean, how many?
What do you call them like formalized?
biopsychosocial like intake forms?
(27:14):
asks anyone about the elimination system?
Oh, that's huge.
I know, I know.
And being able to kind of explore not just the brain, but how the body's functioning
to and of course, we're not medical doctors, we're not doing physicals or anything like
(27:35):
that.
But just asking the question and I had a patient come in a client, I refer to folks as clients
who, again, met criteria for anxiety and whatnot, but hadn't gone to the bathroom in like two
(27:56):
weeks.
And what that does to a system and how that can throw the brain in.
I mean, yeah, because you're getting into gut health, you're getting absolutely into
gut health and understanding that this human is now experiencing a toxic internal environment.
(28:21):
But we're also talking about shame.
Yes.
And again, like the shame chemistry is a thing that we don't look at.
And it is so, so powerful on our brain and body.
And I hope everyone's okay with some select language, because I do tend to be a little
(28:45):
bit of a potty mouth.
But that's shame.
I stole this from one of my yoga instructors way back in the day.
But she talked about the itty bitty shitty committee that lives in our brains and how
powerful that is that, that negative self belief that negative self talk, judgment,
(29:06):
all of that stuff is that brain trying to figure out things that it's not quite understanding.
But yeah, that itty bitty shitty committee is a powerful, powerful thing.
And we'll get into it in later podcasts.
But my specialization is actually trauma slash anxiety disorders.
(29:33):
And you know, it's coupled with human development and how the brain works and how we internalize
and create as a five year old or a 10 year old or 15 year old thoughts about what is
going on.
And we believe those thoughts to be true.
(29:55):
And when we fire them a number of times, it becomes our belief system.
And over time, it becomes our reality.
So a lot of times in my work with the brains that I'm working with is, I'm sorry, I'm
sorry, I'm sorry.
And it's just this pattern that they have learned to be a part of who they are of apologizing
(30:21):
when there's nothing to apologize for.
So again, it's this integral system that, you know, governs how we think, how we feel
and how we act.
Yeah, I just was having a conversation with a client.
And sometimes it's approach work.
(30:44):
Sometimes it's, it's not digestible.
But I was harkening back to biology.
I was just thinking about this the other day that in biology, when I was in high school,
and how you learn like, and I'm kind of botched it.
So all the biologists out there, I apologize, but like kingdom phylum, species, whatever.
(31:09):
And how that day in class when the teacher was like, we're animals, we're animals.
And I remember, it just kind of struck me as like, no, we're not.
But I was so fast forward, I was having this conversation with a client.
And I said, our prime function, because we are in the animal kingdom is to survive.
(31:36):
And so understanding that that brain adapts and maladapts to survive.
That's it.
It's as simple as that.
It really is and you know, bring it back to what I focus on with the anxiety brain.
It's helping people understand that what they actually credit to who they are, in part,
(32:03):
is that unhealthy strategy survival.
And, you know, I say to folks, you know, I want to keep the essence of who you are, which
is a kind, loving soul who wants to live in the world with peace.
(32:24):
But what has happened is that that has come naturally to you.
So you have used this in part to survive in the world to be nice to everybody so that
they don't reject you or abandon you or hurt you.
And that's a real hard one for the folks I work with initially to grasp on to
(32:47):
Well, also to don't you think part of that is whatever the adaptation is, like you were
just saying about maybe being passive or whatever.
But that adaptation to survive has actually worked else the brain wouldn't have adapted.
(33:11):
And that's really, again, because I'm a family systems person that really starts to cultivate
in the system that you're raised in, because everyone has a role.
And just, I think that's the power of the work that looking at something in a negative,
(33:32):
like Oh, I get walked on or whatever, and flipping the script saying that may be true,
but that has served your heart served you in ways.
So how do we get an imbalance?
I don't think it's necessarily like an all or nothing thing, but most people come in
(33:53):
thinking, why have anxiety, make it go away.
And I don't think it's.
And that's where this I'll use the term psycho ed, you'll use the term psycho ed in, in our
field, it's psychological education, but we shorten it to psycho ed.
(34:14):
That's where psycho ed comes in big time to be able to say, No, wait a minute, I know
you're looking at this from a negative standpoint, that may be true, but it also was the way
you adopted and adapted to survive.
So let's give it some credit here too, because you're surviving.
(34:36):
Yeah, you're absolutely right.
And I developed a PowerPoint called the chemistry of trauma, because people don't understand
what trauma is.
And so when I do my PowerPoint with the folks that I work with, all of a sudden, it's not
me telling them.
(34:59):
It's the structure of this educational format that they're able to grasp.
And they see the brain and they see the hypothalamus, pituitary adrenal access, the HPA access,
and understand that this is an autonomic nervous system that you don't have the ability to
(35:20):
control.
And so often that's where the shame comes in, because people are like, just calm down,
just relax.
And nobody more than the person whose nervous system is activated wants to calm down.
But then you have the expectation from the outside world that just again, fuels that
shame that I am a failure.
(35:44):
You're so smart.
Anybody know where we're birthed?
What state are we at?
You're wicked smart.
Well, I tell you, you know, it's one of those things too, that this is serious topics.
(36:07):
But I think it's also important to keep perspective too, because I get a daily quote, I signed
up for an email and it's a daily quote.
And I just love it because it always seems that the quotes come exactly with the best
(36:29):
timing.
And I just had a quote that, yeah, I love it.
It's by Elizabeth Barrett Browning.
It is well to fly towards the light, even where there may be some fluttering and bruising
of wings.
Let me say that one more time, because I think it's really important to the topic we're
(36:52):
saying, it is well to fly towards the light, even where there may be some fluttering and
bruising of wings.
And I I've shared that with many of my clients, because to walk through mental emotional pain
(37:14):
is one of the most difficult choices that anyone can make.
And I just am continuously honored.
I was just saying this to a class I'm teaching, it is such an honor to have someone come to
me, a complete stranger and read the room, feel the energy to know that it's safe to
(37:41):
say things that they've never said out loud to anyone.
And it's, it's an amazing, amazing, amazing opportunity to share the road with folks.
And one of the things I always say is, it's going to get bumpy.
Yes.
But we're going to do it together.
(38:02):
And what I say to people because of that animal component is that, you know, we innately want
to avoid pain.
That's just how we're wired.
Hence why I don't go to the gym.
And I should because my sugar addiction.
(38:23):
But it's, you know, it's understanding that there's just so many things in play.
And that it's just so important to get into the hands of somebody that is, you know, qualified
to deal with your brain.
Right.
And specifically to because what's difficult, like we said in the beginning, if you're on
(38:48):
a one year wait, and then you're next up, and you could have someone who doesn't have
the expertise on what your brain needs or whatever.
This is one thing if I could say that's really important is that we are not a one size fits
(39:09):
all.
No.
And I know it's difficult because in today's world trying to find a therapist is like winning
the lottery.
But I encourage anyone who's listening to this that if you're not feeling that it is
the right fit, or please tell your therapist, I encourage people all the time if I'm not
(39:34):
the right person, because I'm not the right person for everyone.
And my sense of humor might not work for you.
And my approach might not work for you really.
I know it's kind of it sounds weird to be even addressing this, but just popped into
(39:55):
my mind and and I think it's important that you get out of therapy, what you need.
And you know, feeling that empowerment because so many people, the stories that I've heard,
stories I've heard, it's just
And what I tell folks is that we work for you.
(40:17):
So do not become complacent.
And, you know, we gauge the success from our lens.
But if you're not feeling that, or you're not feeling that you're moving forward, I
know it's hard to start over.
(40:38):
I know that, you know, it just seems easier to stay, but you're not doing yourself any
service by being complacent.
And the thing is, is that I've had to move people off of my caseload because they're
not ready.
Right.
And you know, it's it's not just clients or patients with their therapist.
(41:01):
It's also therapists with their caseload.
And so people are feeling the turmoil and the duress.
And so their automatic response is I got to find a therapist.
But when I really get into my work, they they don't want to go there.
Or they at that point, just not
(41:23):
Right.
Absolutely.
And that's what I say to them is that it's not personal.
I need to honor you.
Yeah.
And I am clearly seeing that although your language is telling me that you're ready,
your nonverbal is telling me you're not ready.
And everybody has their time in and it's it's I'm here when you feel, you know, that you're
(41:50):
ready to go down that path.
Right.
And you don't want to push anybody.
Right.
It's it's not what we do.
Yeah, because it's not about us.
No, no.
Yeah.
Well, the other part to that too, I just a tip for folks who are looking for therapists,
(42:11):
or if you've had multiple therapists, I would highly recommend and I've said this to many
of my clients.
If you are someone who is into writing or able to go on your computer and and write
stuff down, it is super helpful for me that if you come in as my client, and you give
(42:39):
me a two pager background, where you're at, what's your history, what kind of thing, I'm
always grateful to have that to get started.
And it might help if you email it or send it or get it to your therapist prior to intake,
so that you're, you're able to kind of hit the ground running, if that's a comfortable
(43:04):
thing.
And it might be something to ask the therapist if they if it would be helpful for them.
So yeah, I mean, in my world clinically, with that anxiety brain, I'm trying to slow it
down.
And so I, I've got a good handle on where they're at, and I just need to figure out
(43:30):
what's going on with their brain and how to turn the volume down.
So from my standpoint, I don't want them getting more and more engrossed in their story.
I'm trying to counteract that.
All right, well, you hear it here first, if you go to Dr. J, don't do the narrative if
(43:53):
you come to Dr. K. But that just illustrates I love the fact that, again, going back to
why we wanted to do this podcast is that we couldn't be more different and more the same
in many ways and, and having kind of the curtain pulled back on the mental health industry
(44:17):
and therapy and therapist and we by no means are the cover children or adults for mental
health treatment.
This is just the way we have found it to work with our clients and wanting to share it.
I love that you take what you want and leave the rest kind of thing.
(44:41):
And I think, you know, part of the passion as to why I wanted to do this podcast is to
offer up, you know, a different lens or a different understanding about brain health.
It is often that people say to me, nobody has ever explained it to me like this before.
(45:03):
And when I get that statement, that's where my passion fuels even more because what I
know is, is that that person's shame has lessened.
And all of a sudden when you get that space with somebody where they're not personalized
in it as a failure and they're understanding that it is a medical issue, then they gain
(45:29):
this momentum to get better.
Empowerment.
Yes.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I was just going to say to to that point about shame that I love how now when you talk to
anyone in their 20s, it's like a badge of honor.
(45:51):
When they say, Oh, my therapist told me or I see my therapist and it's like a brand new
world because we're in our 50s and we did not grow up with that.
That stigma still is heavily attached.
And unfortunately, you know, it took a pandemic.
It took athletes, it took people to come out and and really be truthful with their journey
(46:18):
to help destigmatize but to the very last breath of either one of us that it will always
be a mission to destigmatize mental health and and being able to seek treatment and it
was funny because last week I was in session with a client and they said something and
(46:41):
I said, Well, my therapist and they go, what?
And I and I said something, you know, of wisdom that my therapist had said, and they go, Wait,
you have a therapist?
I was like, Yeah.
And it was just that moment in time to go, Oh, right.
(47:08):
You know, and so it was so powerful for this person to think, Oh, wait, therapists need
therapy to.
I'm here to tell you, yes, we do.
Yes, we do.
And actually, part of part of that process of my therapy and being in therapy and having
(47:32):
been in therapy, informs the therapist I am because being the consumer, yes, being on
the other side.
Yeah, yes.
Yeah, absolutely.
So good stuff.
Well, this was fun.
Our first podcast in the books.
(47:52):
So moving forward, we've got some topics, but I think we both agree that once we go
live opening it up to different things, people being able to email or contact us with certain
questions and topics, and who knows, there might be a guest or two along the way.
(48:13):
I think there will be perhaps, perhaps maybe.
And thanks for joining us.
Yeah, thank you so much.
Hello and welcome to the first episode of One Brain at a Time.
(00:13):
Good morning folks, glad you're here.
I'm Dr. K.
And I'm Dr. J.
We're sisters who are on a mission of spreading the word about mental health and wellness.
We had talked about doing this, actually you were the one who had talked about doing this
for a while and I was a little resistant, must say.
(00:37):
It took me three years to get her here.
It finally is happening.
So this is really exciting.
So part of what we wanted to talk about this first episode is just why we're doing this,
what the mission is and we chose the name One Brain at a Time because it really makes
(01:00):
sense to the work we do in the mental health industry that everyone's individual and everyone's
brain has different needs.
And when we talk about the medical format of brain health, we've got to look at just
(01:20):
how we're made up and we are determined by the genetics that are passed down and we just
never know, you know, even with siblings, what their genetic makeup is going to be.
It could be 10 generations back that are playing out.
So One Brain at a Time is looking at folks from an individual approach instead of a generalized
(01:48):
approach that everybody is the same because it's just not true.
And I think just to get into us a little bit so that you all know who we are, I think combined
we probably have over 40 years experience, but we are siblings and so to your point about
(02:09):
the sibling piece, we could not be more opposite and more the same if we tried.
So it'll be fun to explore some of that stuff in the coming podcasts.
But for my part, I am Dr. K and my background is primarily a lot with kids, families, crisis
(02:38):
early on in my career, I worked as a in home therapist, which meant that I was going into
kids homes working with the entire system.
And that included schools, doctor, anyone who was involved in the kids lives.
(02:58):
And that was quite an experience and a lot of growing to work with over, I don't know,
I'd say 500 families.
So really given perspective on how each brain operates and then within the system.
But don't get me started because I could talk about that all day long.
(03:22):
And I'm Dr. J. I took an unconventional route through education.
I was planning to play division one sports, but my brain had another plan for me.
And I developed panic disorder.
And it derailed my division one athletic career and my academic career.
(03:46):
I ended up going back to school in my mid 30s and didn't stop for 15 years.
So I come from a perspective of anxiety disorders.
I've worked in different areas from school counselor to intensive outpatient suboxone
clinic, working with the military and law enforcement.
(04:11):
And where I am today is I specialize in trauma and anxiety disorders.
And so we just, you know, wanted to collaborate together to bring this framework to you folks
to understand that depending on what you're dealing with, you really need to know what
(04:36):
you're looking for in a provider.
Yeah.
And as we all know, the shortage of mental health support out in the community, even
pre pandemic, it was, it was difficult for folks to find people.
I was just told me recently that they were calling around and was told that it's a one
(05:00):
year wait to get into see a therapist.
And I thought, how is that even possible?
Because when you're in mental health pain, you need to talk to somebody now.
So that's, that's some of some of the motivation to behind doing this podcast, because what
(05:21):
you and I have talked about is that there's a lot of things that we say to folks to be
able to empower them to understand how their mind, body, spirit, the chemistry, the things
that cause symptoms, to do a deeper dive in a more public way, so that maybe just maybe
(05:46):
the right people hear it in fine comfort in the fact that no, you're not crazy, you're
not alone.
This is very common situation.
And hopefully, we can destigmatize mental, mental illness and mental wellness.
So before we go further, I just wanted to say that we worked very hard on coming up
(06:12):
with the mission statement for this podcast, and I wanted to share it.
So one brain at a time is sharing educational, professional and personal experience to increase
the understanding of holistic mental health.
Dr. J, could you define what holistic mental health is?
(06:34):
Absolutely.
So when I work with folks, I tell them that I work from a medical framework.
So whatever the issue or symptomology that they're experiencing, I'm looking at it from
a brain standpoint, our brain becomes dysregulated.
(06:57):
And it depends on what part of the brain is dysregulated will show what we call a diagnosis
or symptomology.
So when I screen people, I'm looking at their whole history.
It's not just the current situation.
So we've got to look at health, and that's looking at nutrition, toxins, any sort of
(07:23):
exposure to anything that could have impacted the brain substances.
I also look for traumatic brain injury.
Working with the military for six years, this became something very important to me to understand
traumatic brain injuries.
And what a lot of folks don't realize is that when the organ is injured, we culturally believe
(07:49):
that a concussion will heal by itself, but we don't know that for a fact.
And oftentimes people will have different thought patterns, different emotions, and
they just think it's them.
And we've got to bring this world into the medical model.
I think that's, again, going back to why we wanted to do this podcast that how many times
(08:15):
have you met with a person and it is the first time that they are talking about their experience
out loud and that how much have they carried for however long they've walked the earth
alone in navigating what those symptoms and feelings and, and when you're left to your
(08:41):
own accord, you can create narratives that just aren't true.
Yeah, for sure.
In the folks that I work with, the brains that I'm working with, there's a lot, a lot
of shame that is not quiet within them, but it's something that folks try to wrangle.
(09:05):
And part of my passion in bringing it into brain health and medical model helps them
understand that there is no intrinsic flaw within you.
There's nothing that is wrong with you.
We have to look at what has taken place to cause this diagnosis or patterns that are
(09:31):
showing up and derailing you from life.
And so one of the areas that I also screen for is trauma.
And I can't tell you how many people that I've screened.
And one of the things that I look for is in utero and birth and something that continually
(09:52):
comes up is birth where the baby is struggling.
So they'll go into the NICU for two or three weeks.
And sometimes, you know, months at a time and people think, oh, well, you know, they're
fine.
They're fine because they don't have memory of it and they had medical care.
(10:12):
But when we look at human development, we've got to look at the basics and trauma is encoded
through our sensory system.
So oftentimes I will find that it was, you know, having to be separated from their mom
and not having that 24 seven nurturing warm environment.
(10:35):
And it causes separation anxiety in the child as they get older.
And they just think there's something wrong with them.
And I'm like, no, yeah, makes perfect sense to me.
Right.
And to piggyback on what you were saying about in utero, I forget where I was reading it.
(10:56):
It was an article about research that had been done, I believe, in utero.
And it was such a strong link to where mom was while carrying the child because I think
it's common sense if you're carrying a child, what kind of things are going on with you
(11:20):
at the time might be affecting.
But the other piece to that I think is really important is what we were talking about earlier
when we do intakes or when we first start talking to people and how when those light
bulbs start going off in connection and how I mean, that's, that's where the magic lies
(11:46):
with the work we do and why we continue to, to do the work is to be able to have folks
understand how their brain operates and works in a different way and build that compassion
for themselves to say, okay, so you might have anxiety, but we're going to figure out
(12:08):
how to live with it, make friends with it and move forward.
Because having anxiety, I know I think this was something that you had taught me early
on in my career, about looking at anxiety and what's the positives that come with it.
And one of the things I always say when I'm doing an intake with folks with anxiety, I
(12:31):
say, actually, you're the person I want to be with at a concert, because you know all
the exits.
I don't have to worry about my safety because I know you're gonna make sure I'm safe.
And so having some humor here too is important.
(12:51):
That's where I come in.
Absolutely.
And I think it's just really important that going back to the shame component.
When people come into my practice, they're, they're just permeating and oozing out shame
that they have failed.
And it has nothing to do with failure and I just can't stress this enough that who you
(13:19):
were born to be isn't this anxiety disorder and then other people, it's depression or
substance abuse or eating disorder or overexercise.
It can go on and on and on.
It's about how do you survive in the world with a dysregulated nervous system and the
(13:40):
brain is command post of that nervous system.
So if you have an undiagnosed traumatic brain injury because you, you know, fell off of
a bed when you were six months old, you know, how, how are you to function in life with
(14:03):
unknowingly a traumatic brain injury that nobody's looked at your brain?
And also making a note that I think I was kindergarten when I fell and I just remember
hitting my head and whatnot.
And it doesn't necessarily mean that my brain had traumatic brain.
(14:28):
That's the point of this podcast that every brain is different.
So it doesn't necessarily mean just because you hit your head that that's going to show
up in a way.
No, but it's, it's something that needs to be screened because I can't rule out when
I have somebody that, you know, comes in with OCD or panic disorder or just overall generalized
(14:56):
anxiety that, you know, my curiosity is to tease out how did this brain get here?
And you know, I say to folks, if we take it out of the organ called the brain and we take
it into cardiac, you know, we don't have a heart attack, just wake up one day and it's
going to give out.
(15:17):
It's been years.
There's been things that have happened to that particular organ that over time has caused
it to go into crisis.
And that's the way I look at brain health is that, you know, it's not just one day this
happens.
It's been over time.
(15:38):
So I can not not rule out that there's an undiagnosed traumatic brain injury that nobody
knows about.
So if I'm just curious to, because I know we've talked about this, that it's still strange
to me that our industry is the only industry that doesn't mandate some kind of screening
(16:02):
of the brain.
Like if you come in and you say, I can't sleep, I can't eat.
Here are all these symptoms and kind of traditional mental health will look at the book of criteria
and say, okay, you meet criteria for whatever OCD or whatever.
(16:22):
And that there isn't that focus to say, wait, let's take a picture of the brain, let's scan
the brain and make sure that we're not missing anything.
So to your point about that TBI, where if you have someone who comes in, and you want
to rule out anything with the brain, where what's the next step?
(16:45):
Yeah, that's a great question.
So in my clinical work, I assess and evaluate is this brain in mild, moderate or severe?
So depending on where the individual is will determine my recommendation.
(17:07):
So if I have somebody who's in the mild and even moderate, I'm pretty confident that with
some intervention and specific intervention, and again, I specialize in anxiety disorder.
So I have a skill set that is specific to that diagnosis.
I helped get a company inpatient program off the ground, age 13 to 20, primary diagnosis
(17:36):
anxiety disorder.
And our kids literally came from all over the world.
And what I realized was that it didn't matter where you lived, didn't matter what culture
you grew up in, a brain is a brain with a diagnosis.
And so, you know, it's just it's so important to really assess where it is.
(18:00):
So a couple of years ago, I fell upon a gentleman by the name of Dr. Daniel Amon.
And to date, he's the only person that I know that specializes and he's a psychiatrist.
(18:21):
And he has used SPECT scan and that's an acronym, S-P-E-C-T.
And what it does is it looks at the brain and you get some real incredible information.
So when I have a patient that is in the severe zone, meaning they've tried other places and
(18:44):
I clearly see that the brain is not functioning at a level, then I'll refer to the Amon clinic
and get a clear picture.
And thus far, the information that has come back has absolutely substantiated why this
human is functioning in the way that they do.
(19:07):
And from what I know a little bit about Dr. Amon's work is, again, going back to that
traditional medical model, you go in, say you have a heart pain or whatever, they're
going to get quantitative information about the heart through different testing and whatnot
(19:28):
and then be able to retest to see whatever interventions are working.
And I think that's the frustration we've had in the mental health arena that there's
not that quantitative, here's the picture of the brain to be able to say, yep, this
(19:48):
area is not lighting up, this area is underutilized, that kind of thing.
And with Dr. Amon being able to have those images and then the intervention is driven
by that information.
So it's very customized, which brings us back to why we need this podcast one brain at a
time because it really is individualized on what can work.
(20:14):
I remember, I think I've read something or no, I think on his website, there was a YouTube
video and it was a man who had struggled with anxiety his whole life went to Dr. Amon and
then the intervention was going into a hyperbaric chamber.
Yeah, to heal the brain.
(20:36):
And how I want to say I was like 40 sessions later, he was anxiety free.
And but anyways, amen to Dr. Amen.
That's what because I think it's moving our our field in a different direction because
everybody seems to know about Dr. Amen and I, I refer quite a few clients in his direction
(21:01):
even to follow him on Instagram because he, he posts some great definitely cutting edge
in this field.
And you know, again, I go back to the shame that is within us when we deem that we're
failing.
(21:22):
And my research in the in my doctorate title is stress, biochemistry and food perceptions
of primary care physicians working with obesity patients.
And you know, I realized after coming out of that research that it really came back
to the brain.
(21:42):
Yeah, and that we have a model in this country that is just diet and exercise, diet and exercise,
but we're not looking at the brain.
And so it sets people up for failure.
And then the ones that can maintain the weight loss, they feel like they're the ones who
(22:05):
are successful.
And it has nothing to do with strength versus weakness.
It has everything to do with an organ that is either functioning on all cylinders or
it's not.
Yeah.
And that's where the mild, moderate severe comes in.
Well, we are definitely going to do a deeper dive on your research and follow up podcasts
(22:29):
because it's fascinating to even start to talk about weight in the diet industry and
all of that.
But I just don't know me that we haven't truly clarified our expertise.
So fun fact, my sister here, Dr. J, back in the day had called me up and said, I am going
(22:52):
to enroll and get my master's in psych and counseling.
And being the younger sister who will not be left out, I was like, well, then I have
to apply.
And so we did our grad school together.
And after finishing the head, same thing, my sister said, well, I'm going on for my
(23:13):
PhD.
And I said, wait a minute, you can't do that without me.
So we did our PhD together.
So we're both licensed therapists and PhD survivors, I will say.
And I think another really important point with the two of us is that we grew up in an
(23:41):
environment of what was considered holistic health.
And we were the only family in our neighborhood, probably a good 50 mile radius that really
wasn't allowed to have sugar because of how much sugar can cause illness in the body.
(24:04):
And so at a very young age, I was 12.
So you were six.
I think I was too.
This again, medical models surrounding food was introduced to us.
And with my anxiety brain, I held on to it for dear life because if it meant that I was
(24:24):
going to be guaranteed to stay healthy, then I was going to do everything.
This way of living was going to work.
Yeah.
And I went the opposite way.
I felt like I could have called child services because I was so grateful and you were feeling
(24:46):
so pained.
Arab covered rice cakes was our tree in the 70s and 80s.
Come on.
So I never had anyone sleep over because I always want to go sleep over other people
normal house that had Oreos and Flop.
Well, actually kind of to that point, I think and I don't want to go too far into it because
(25:13):
we're definitely going to earmark time to really do a deep dive on it.
And going back to that brain part is that how I didn't know that my own process trauma
and mental health and all of that, that sugar is one of if not the most addictive substance
(25:39):
in the world, but that it spikes serotonin.
So as a little kid as a little animal cherub, I was drawn to sugar because I was trying
to bump my serotonin.
And it's interesting too, because in my current work, working in the addiction world, how
(26:06):
how a lot of that conversation is when folks are getting sober, you're not just getting
sober from alcohol, but the sugar part two.
So it's a double but as I said, we won't get into addiction today because that's a whole
nother topic.
And so we have to pace ourselves.
We're like this in a candy store.
(26:31):
We could talk about it forever.
So just going back real quick about that kind of individualized model with brain health
and whatnot.
In speaking to what you were saying about our background in health, I am always taken
(26:52):
back by the lack of focus with intake or treatment around nutrition, around sleep, around.
I mean, how many?
What do you call them like formalized?
biopsychosocial like intake forms?
(27:14):
asks anyone about the elimination system?
Oh, that's huge.
I know, I know.
And being able to kind of explore not just the brain, but how the body's functioning
to and of course, we're not medical doctors, we're not doing physicals or anything like
(27:35):
that.
But just asking the question and I had a patient come in a client, I refer to folks as clients
who, again, met criteria for anxiety and whatnot, but hadn't gone to the bathroom in like two
(27:56):
weeks.
And what that does to a system and how that can throw the brain in.
I mean, yeah, because you're getting into gut health, you're getting absolutely into
gut health and understanding that this human is now experiencing a toxic internal environment.
(28:21):
But we're also talking about shame.
Yes.
And again, like the shame chemistry is a thing that we don't look at.
And it is so, so powerful on our brain and body.
And I hope everyone's okay with some select language, because I do tend to be a little
(28:45):
bit of a potty mouth.
But that's shame.
I stole this from one of my yoga instructors way back in the day.
But she talked about the itty bitty shitty committee that lives in our brains and how
powerful that is that, that negative self belief that negative self talk, judgment,
(29:06):
all of that stuff is that brain trying to figure out things that it's not quite understanding.
But yeah, that itty bitty shitty committee is a powerful, powerful thing.
And we'll get into it in later podcasts.
But my specialization is actually trauma slash anxiety disorders.
(29:33):
And you know, it's coupled with human development and how the brain works and how we internalize
and create as a five year old or a 10 year old or 15 year old thoughts about what is
going on.
And we believe those thoughts to be true.
(29:55):
And when we fire them a number of times, it becomes our belief system.
And over time, it becomes our reality.
So a lot of times in my work with the brains that I'm working with is, I'm sorry, I'm
sorry, I'm sorry.
And it's just this pattern that they have learned to be a part of who they are of apologizing
(30:21):
when there's nothing to apologize for.
So again, it's this integral system that, you know, governs how we think, how we feel
and how we act.
Yeah, I just was having a conversation with a client.
And sometimes it's approach work.
(30:44):
Sometimes it's, it's not digestible.
But I was harkening back to biology.
I was just thinking about this the other day that in biology, when I was in high school,
and how you learn like, and I'm kind of botched it.
So all the biologists out there, I apologize, but like kingdom phylum, species, whatever.
(31:09):
And how that day in class when the teacher was like, we're animals, we're animals.
And I remember, it just kind of struck me as like, no, we're not.
But I was so fast forward, I was having this conversation with a client.
And I said, our prime function, because we are in the animal kingdom is to survive.
(31:36):
And so understanding that that brain adapts and maladapts to survive.
That's it.
It's as simple as that.
It really is and you know, bring it back to what I focus on with the anxiety brain.
It's helping people understand that what they actually credit to who they are, in part,
(32:03):
is that unhealthy strategy survival.
And, you know, I say to folks, you know, I want to keep the essence of who you are, which
is a kind, loving soul who wants to live in the world with peace.
(32:24):
But what has happened is that that has come naturally to you.
So you have used this in part to survive in the world to be nice to everybody so that
they don't reject you or abandon you or hurt you.
And that's a real hard one for the folks I work with initially to grasp on to
(32:47):
Well, also to don't you think part of that is whatever the adaptation is, like you were
just saying about maybe being passive or whatever.
But that adaptation to survive has actually worked else the brain wouldn't have adapted.
(33:11):
And that's really, again, because I'm a family systems person that really starts to cultivate
in the system that you're raised in, because everyone has a role.
And just, I think that's the power of the work that looking at something in a negative,
(33:32):
like Oh, I get walked on or whatever, and flipping the script saying that may be true,
but that has served your heart served you in ways.
So how do we get an imbalance?
I don't think it's necessarily like an all or nothing thing, but most people come in
(33:53):
thinking, why have anxiety, make it go away.
And I don't think it's.
And that's where this I'll use the term psycho ed, you'll use the term psycho ed in, in our
field, it's psychological education, but we shorten it to psycho ed.
(34:14):
That's where psycho ed comes in big time to be able to say, No, wait a minute, I know
you're looking at this from a negative standpoint, that may be true, but it also was the way
you adopted and adapted to survive.
So let's give it some credit here too, because you're surviving.
(34:36):
Yeah, you're absolutely right.
And I developed a PowerPoint called the chemistry of trauma, because people don't understand
what trauma is.
And so when I do my PowerPoint with the folks that I work with, all of a sudden, it's not
me telling them.
(34:59):
It's the structure of this educational format that they're able to grasp.
And they see the brain and they see the hypothalamus, pituitary adrenal access, the HPA access,
and understand that this is an autonomic nervous system that you don't have the ability to
(35:20):
control.
And so often that's where the shame comes in, because people are like, just calm down,
just relax.
And nobody more than the person whose nervous system is activated wants to calm down.
But then you have the expectation from the outside world that just again, fuels that
shame that I am a failure.
(35:44):
You're so smart.
Anybody know where we're birthed?
What state are we at?
You're wicked smart.
Well, I tell you, you know, it's one of those things too, that this is serious topics.
(36:07):
But I think it's also important to keep perspective too, because I get a daily quote, I signed
up for an email and it's a daily quote.
And I just love it because it always seems that the quotes come exactly with the best
(36:29):
timing.
And I just had a quote that, yeah, I love it.
It's by Elizabeth Barrett Browning.
It is well to fly towards the light, even where there may be some fluttering and bruising
of wings.
Let me say that one more time, because I think it's really important to the topic we're
(36:52):
saying, it is well to fly towards the light, even where there may be some fluttering and
bruising of wings.
And I I've shared that with many of my clients, because to walk through mental emotional pain
(37:14):
is one of the most difficult choices that anyone can make.
And I just am continuously honored.
I was just saying this to a class I'm teaching, it is such an honor to have someone come to
me, a complete stranger and read the room, feel the energy to know that it's safe to
(37:41):
say things that they've never said out loud to anyone.
And it's, it's an amazing, amazing, amazing opportunity to share the road with folks.
And one of the things I always say is, it's going to get bumpy.
Yes.
But we're going to do it together.
(38:02):
And what I say to people because of that animal component is that, you know, we innately want
to avoid pain.
That's just how we're wired.
Hence why I don't go to the gym.
And I should because my sugar addiction.
(38:23):
But it's, you know, it's understanding that there's just so many things in play.
And that it's just so important to get into the hands of somebody that is, you know, qualified
to deal with your brain.
Right.
And specifically to because what's difficult, like we said in the beginning, if you're on
(38:48):
a one year wait, and then you're next up, and you could have someone who doesn't have
the expertise on what your brain needs or whatever.
This is one thing if I could say that's really important is that we are not a one size fits
(39:09):
all.
No.
And I know it's difficult because in today's world trying to find a therapist is like winning
the lottery.
But I encourage anyone who's listening to this that if you're not feeling that it is
the right fit, or please tell your therapist, I encourage people all the time if I'm not
(39:34):
the right person, because I'm not the right person for everyone.
And my sense of humor might not work for you.
And my approach might not work for you really.
I know it's kind of it sounds weird to be even addressing this, but just popped into
(39:55):
my mind and and I think it's important that you get out of therapy, what you need.
And you know, feeling that empowerment because so many people, the stories that I've heard,
stories I've heard, it's just
And what I tell folks is that we work for you.
(40:17):
So do not become complacent.
And, you know, we gauge the success from our lens.
But if you're not feeling that, or you're not feeling that you're moving forward, I
know it's hard to start over.
(40:38):
I know that, you know, it just seems easier to stay, but you're not doing yourself any
service by being complacent.
And the thing is, is that I've had to move people off of my caseload because they're
not ready.
Right.
And you know, it's it's not just clients or patients with their therapist.
(41:01):
It's also therapists with their caseload.
And so people are feeling the turmoil and the duress.
And so their automatic response is I got to find a therapist.
But when I really get into my work, they they don't want to go there.
Or they at that point, just not
(41:23):
Right.
Absolutely.
And that's what I say to them is that it's not personal.
I need to honor you.
Yeah.
And I am clearly seeing that although your language is telling me that you're ready,
your nonverbal is telling me you're not ready.
And everybody has their time in and it's it's I'm here when you feel, you know, that you're
(41:50):
ready to go down that path.
Right.
And you don't want to push anybody.
Right.
It's it's not what we do.
Yeah, because it's not about us.
No, no.
Yeah.
Well, the other part to that too, I just a tip for folks who are looking for therapists,
(42:11):
or if you've had multiple therapists, I would highly recommend and I've said this to many
of my clients.
If you are someone who is into writing or able to go on your computer and and write
stuff down, it is super helpful for me that if you come in as my client, and you give
(42:39):
me a two pager background, where you're at, what's your history, what kind of thing, I'm
always grateful to have that to get started.
And it might help if you email it or send it or get it to your therapist prior to intake,
so that you're, you're able to kind of hit the ground running, if that's a comfortable
(43:04):
thing.
And it might be something to ask the therapist if they if it would be helpful for them.
So yeah, I mean, in my world clinically, with that anxiety brain, I'm trying to slow it
down.
And so I, I've got a good handle on where they're at, and I just need to figure out
(43:30):
what's going on with their brain and how to turn the volume down.
So from my standpoint, I don't want them getting more and more engrossed in their story.
I'm trying to counteract that.
All right, well, you hear it here first, if you go to Dr. J, don't do the narrative if
(43:53):
you come to Dr. K. But that just illustrates I love the fact that, again, going back to
why we wanted to do this podcast is that we couldn't be more different and more the same
in many ways and, and having kind of the curtain pulled back on the mental health industry
(44:17):
and therapy and therapist and we by no means are the cover children or adults for mental
health treatment.
This is just the way we have found it to work with our clients and wanting to share it.
I love that you take what you want and leave the rest kind of thing.
(44:41):
And I think, you know, part of the passion as to why I wanted to do this podcast is to
offer up, you know, a different lens or a different understanding about brain health.
It is often that people say to me, nobody has ever explained it to me like this before.
(45:03):
And when I get that statement, that's where my passion fuels even more because what I
know is, is that that person's shame has lessened.
And all of a sudden when you get that space with somebody where they're not personalized
in it as a failure and they're understanding that it is a medical issue, then they gain
(45:29):
this momentum to get better.
Empowerment.
Yes.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I was just going to say to to that point about shame that I love how now when you talk to
anyone in their 20s, it's like a badge of honor.
(45:51):
When they say, Oh, my therapist told me or I see my therapist and it's like a brand new
world because we're in our 50s and we did not grow up with that.
That stigma still is heavily attached.
And unfortunately, you know, it took a pandemic.
It took athletes, it took people to come out and and really be truthful with their journey
(46:18):
to help destigmatize but to the very last breath of either one of us that it will always
be a mission to destigmatize mental health and and being able to seek treatment and it
was funny because last week I was in session with a client and they said something and
(46:41):
I said, Well, my therapist and they go, what?
And I and I said something, you know, of wisdom that my therapist had said, and they go, Wait,
you have a therapist?
I was like, Yeah.
And it was just that moment in time to go, Oh, right.
(47:08):
You know, and so it was so powerful for this person to think, Oh, wait, therapists need
therapy to.
I'm here to tell you, yes, we do.
Yes, we do.
And actually, part of part of that process of my therapy and being in therapy and having
(47:32):
been in therapy, informs the therapist I am because being the consumer, yes, being on
the other side.
Yeah, yes.
Yeah, absolutely.
So good stuff.
Well, this was fun.
Our first podcast in the books.
(47:52):
So moving forward, we've got some topics, but I think we both agree that once we go
live opening it up to different things, people being able to email or contact us with certain
questions and topics, and who knows, there might be a guest or two along the way.
(48:13):
I think there will be perhaps, perhaps maybe.
And thanks for joining us.
Yeah, thank you so much.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Special Summer Offer: Exclusively on Apple Podcasts, try our Dateline Premium subscription completely free for one month! With Dateline Premium, you get every episode ad-free plus exclusive bonus content.