Therapists in Therapy

Did you know therapists go to therapy? This week we are discussing our first experiences with therapy and the challenges of finding the right therapist.

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
Hello, welcome to One Brain at a Time. I'm Dr. K and I'm Dr. J. So in thinking about

(00:08):
what we wanted to chat about today, I thought and we discussed it, we both thought it would
be informative, interesting, hopefully a little comical to talk about our own experience with
therapy and just kind of review what our experiences, the do's, the don'ts and hopefully

(00:30):
give you some information to make the best choice possible.
So, you know, oftentimes I'll hear from folks that they've tried therapy, it didn't work,
and they're not willing to go back. And I agree that there are times where the therapeutic process

(00:52):
isn't going to work and it's either because you don't click with the clinician or you're just not
ready. And that's a big one to really hone in on because we think that if we just go to a therapist,
that somehow it's all going to be taken care of and it doesn't work that way.

(01:14):
No, we're not miracle workers. Although sometimes miracles do occur.
So yeah, I absolutely agree. But it's the collaborative movement that, you know, I'll show up
and do my part. And, you know, again, sometimes my part isn't where the person's at.

(01:37):
And perhaps somebody came through my caseload that actually isn't what I call an anxiety brain. So,
you know, it's just it's one of those things that I would just strongly, strongly recommend.
Don't give up. We work for you as a medical provider. And what's important to understand

(01:58):
is that it's perfectly all right to vet us. Because you want to make sure that we're going
to align with who you are. And conversely, it's the same thing for us. If we don't see that there's
traction being had, then, you know, we can come to the table too and say, you know, my feeling is

(02:22):
that this isn't working and that I'll help you and we'll find a referral for you.
Yeah, I think that's so important to to really invest in that relationship, because if it's
not the right fit, it's not the right fit. And, but that also brings me to the point that the

(02:45):
reality of of the mental health field right now that there's just not enough of us. So
I've heard, I think I might have said this before that hearing people who have told me that they've
been on waitlists for six months a year to get a therapist, it's like, Oh, yeah, tell me to be

(03:06):
picky. But how can I be picky? Because there's not a lot of options. So. But with that being said, I
think with telehealth, that's opened up the field. Yeah, greatly.
I absolutely agree. There are people that, for whatever reason, may be nervous or apprehensive
to be in a room with another person, at least in the beginning, and that can be a roadblock

(03:31):
in moving forward to get the help. Telehealth gives some level of barrier in that, that you're
in your own home or you're in your car, wherever you are, you're in your home, you're in your
in your car, wherever you are, you're in your safe place. Right, right.

(03:53):
Thinking about the therapeutic relationship, always, always, always saying to new clients,
I know it's not a normal day in the life to meet a perfect stranger and automatically be vulnerable.
Tell this perfect stranger all of your secrets or things that you've never said out loud. It's,

(04:21):
it's a pretty intense process. And how do we honor that? You know, I mean, I've had, I'm sure you
have too, folks who I've worked with for a good four or six months before we really get to what's
what's really going on. And I've also had the experience of people who hit the ground running.

(04:44):
They're like, yeah, I'm good. Let's get going. Yeah. Usually when people reach out to me,
the anxiety has gotten to such a point that it's impacting their relationships or their work.
Or there's somewhere in their world that life's just not working and they can't ignore it anymore.

(05:07):
And when someone comes on my caseload, what I say to them is that we're just going to hang out for
probably three sessions so that your back brain can become acclimated to me. And I always start a
session, the first session, giving an overview of who I am, because I've got to honor that,

(05:32):
honor that, you know, again, people come in with the trauma that this brain has to learn to trust
me. And that takes time. What kind of things do you, when you say that you talk about yourself,
what kind of stuff? Cause I don't think I knew that. Yeah. So I take the lead in the first session

(05:56):
with, let me just share a little bit about myself. And because I was, you know, that kid, that
adolescent, that adult, that, you know, you pick the anxiety disorder. I had it at one point or
another. Right. So I understand the language and I understand the silent thoughts that

(06:18):
a person will have. And so part of me being transparent and disclosing that, it helps the
person understand that I do have a level of knowing. And then I shared that I have my PhD
in health psychology, which focus my area focused in neuropsychophysiology. So I look at the brain,

(06:42):
at the brain, I look at the behavior, and then I look at where else in the body it's playing out.
And I tell people that I, the way that I practice is really a medical model, that this isn't the
essence of who you were born to be. There's something going on in and with your brain.

(07:02):
And so I do an assessment evaluation after I share who I am. And I just get into looking at,
you know, undiagnosed traumatic brain injuries, any sort of toxic exposure, either through fumes,
chemicals or substances. And so I really get an in-depth understanding of this person and all the

(07:33):
while it's not getting into the trauma. And so I've got, and I tell them upfront, we're not going
to get into anything for a couple of sessions. It's to honor that sensory system. And I'll say,
who is she? Can I trust her? What is her face doing? What does her voice sound like? And it's

(07:55):
just respecting the threat center. Yeah. And I on the opposite side, I was asking, I don't think I
ever talk, I don't think I ever, I think I might ask, is there anything about me or this experience
that I haven't answered or whatever, but, but as you were saying that it makes total sense working,

(08:21):
because everyone who's coming in your direction has anxiety as the focus where I, I, that might
not be the case for me. I think as we were talking about this topic, we were saying that it would
probably be an interesting walk down memory lane on our own experiences in therapy. And after we said,

(08:49):
yeah, let's do that. I started to think about, um, when my first experience with therapy was, and
it was, I think I was 17. I had said to mom, I don't feel right. And in retrospect, looking back,
I think it was probably low grade depression. And, um, she said, well, do you want to go and talk to

(09:14):
somebody? And it was a friend of a friend or something. And I just remember she was practicing,
practicing this therapist was practicing out of her house. And so as a 17 year old going to
someone's house, it felt weird. And then she was into gestalt therapy. And when I think back, I'm

(09:42):
like, Oh, my poor little 17 year old self, but she was reflecting to me, which was accurate,
but at 17, I couldn't really understand. She's like, I think you have unprocessed anger or
something. I'm like, really? Okay. And she had a wiffle ball bad and she had a stack of pillows

(10:04):
on her couch. And she's like, I want you to hit that. Now I am such a pacifist. If there's any
conflict, I run the other way and I'm like, you want me to do what? So I picked up the,
the bat and I just like tap the pillow and she's like, no, I really want you to get into it.

(10:25):
And again, when I think about my 17 year old self going WTF, this is crazy. And this is therapy.
This is what's supposed to help. And I think I went back a couple times and I said to mom, I'm
like, yeah, no, this is not helpful. And the other thing, I think I told you this back when we were

(10:45):
in grad school at the end of every session, she wanted to give me a hug. Oh, I know. I know.
And I didn't ask for it. And it was again at 17 now being now being on the other side of it,
all the things that were so wrong, so wrong that therapist was imposing their agenda onto me.

(11:14):
And unfortunately, it just wasn't because that's the thing too, about therapy is,
and I think you and I both agree on this, is that when you come in to see me,
this is not about me imposing on you. It's like every therapy session is different with

(11:40):
with every client, with every session, you know, I mean, sometimes it can, it can look like,
you know, we're doing different things every session, because I really line up to where
somebody's at. So that example of the therapist with the bat was,

(12:02):
he was not a good one. Oh my gosh. I know. I know. What about you? Who was your first
therapist? Not naming any names or descriptives, but. So I had, I was 20. I think I was, I was
either 20 or 21. And I had lost somebody that I cared very much for in an auto accident. And

(12:27):
I couldn't rebound. Like I just couldn't rebound. And I also said to mom and dad, like, I,
I don't know what's going on, but I'm really struggling. So I went to this therapist who
a friend of mine was seeing and just raved about him. So it's always a crap shoot, right? You know,

(12:51):
you don't know. So I thought, gosh, you know, firsthand referral would be, so I called and I
made an appointment. And at that point in my life, I was coaching, I think it was a junior high
basketball team, girls basketball. But anyway, what I found in the three months that I went to him was

(13:14):
that when I dressed up because I had a game, he was completely and utterly plugged into me.
But when I showed up in sweats and a t-shirt and without my makeup done, he was so disinterested
in me. Yeah, it was. And so thank goodness, my 20 year old self knew this, this is not right.

(13:42):
Yeah. And so I just stopped going to him. Oh my gosh. Isn't this crazy? I don't think I ever
heard you telling me about that. Yeah, it was, it was creepy. Well, it also speaks to the reason why
we're doing this episode is to let people know these experiences happen. And unfortunately,

(14:04):
or fortunately, whatever. Uh, sometimes when people get to us, they've had experiences,
maybe sometimes multiple that they're like, is that normal in therapy? And you're like,
it shouldn't be. No. So, and also speaking to our age when you're 17 and 20 going to therapy for the

(14:30):
first time, you don't have any concept. And for us, I'll speak for myself. The only context I had
was what I saw on TV or movies, you know, lay down on the couch, let's start when you were two.
And that alone was kind of freaky to me. And then I go to this therapist and I pick up a

(14:56):
wiffle ball bat and start pounding on it. And I was like, yeah, I'm all set with therapy. Therapy is
like crazier than me. But that goes back to what I said in the beginning is that, um, there are
people that will say, um, I tried it, it didn't work and I'm not doing it again. Right. And

(15:21):
you know, what we're trying to highlight here is that even though we're trained professionals,
it doesn't matter what field we're in. There are just people that shouldn't be practicing
and there are just people that shouldn't be in whatever field that they're in.
Although I will say that with all of my coworkers throughout my career,

(15:44):
I have noticed that there are times where I have co-facilitated either a group or a session or
whatever. And in the back of my mind, I'm like, Oh, I'm not sure I would do it like that. But that,
that particular therapist has great success with, um, their clients. And that really was, um,

(16:12):
I guess the words enlightening because there is a right fit for everyone.
I agree. I think that, um, there's what I say to people, like when I'm, if I'm leaving a job
and they'll say, I don't want you to leave and I'll say to them, but you know what?

(16:32):
The person that comes in behind me is going to offer up something that I didn't.
So it's understanding that we all have a skillset. We all bring something to the table.
Where I differentiate that is when a therapist makes you feel that.
Oh gosh, not the heck.
Yeah. That when you feel that and then you start, at least I did start questioning myself, is it me?

(16:59):
Right. Am I the one that's having the problem here? But again, after three months, I knew that
this wasn't me and that I needed to get out. I know, I know. But again, it's just, that was the
type of experience that somebody could have had that, yep, I tried it. I'm not going to try it

(17:20):
again. And all I'm saying is please don't let that one experience dictate or direct that all
therapists practice like this. Right. I think the best compliment I ever had from a client
was we're in the middle of a session and she said, I didn't realize you could laugh in therapy.

(17:44):
And I was like, well, when you're working with me, that's a prerequisite. There will be no
wiffle bats unless you want to wiffle bad, then we'll do it. But, um, so moving on the next
therapist I went to was shortly after my daughter was born, I definitely felt some postpartum.

(18:09):
And I thought, I need to give this another try. So that was probably seven years later,
three, eight, carry the one probably eight years later. And the person who I saw was in a community
health setting. And I think she was an intern, but she was probably going to say in her 40s or such.

(18:37):
And she was just so kind. I don't know if we did any heavy hitting exploration kind of work, but I'm
not sure that that's what I needed at the time. And just having a place that I could bring my,

(18:59):
my newborn and sit in a room and talk to somebody who knew nothing about me knew nothing about my
family and just have that space to just offload and kind of out loud process my own thoughts and
have somebody who I knew had an objective view to be able to say, is that really how it is? Or have

(19:26):
you thought of it this way? And just having that other perspective was very helpful. And I think I
stayed with that therapist for about six months, maybe a little bit longer, but I definitely felt
that it allowed some space to heal and process. Yeah. How about for you? Oh, gosh.

(19:56):
We're gonna have to blow the cobwebs off of these memories.
So, it was in my mid thirties. There was my marriage was really in trouble. So I asked my husband

(20:17):
if he would go to therapy and we went to this woman who was as kind and as sweet as can be.
The only issue was that in hindsight, looking back, I think she might have narcolepsy.
What?
Because probably 20 to 25 minutes into the therapy, her eyelids would start to drop.

(20:44):
You are lying.
No, no. And, you know, it was,
Oh my gosh.
And so my husband and I would leave and we'd be like, Oh my gosh, do we say anything?
Do we not say anything? And the crazy thing was, is that we ended up going back and then she'd do

(21:11):
the same thing. And so, yeah, you know, it,
How long did you stay going to?
Oh gosh. I, I don't know. I'm going to say probably close to a year.
Come on. Yeah.
What made you not say anything?

(21:33):
Remember how we were talking yesterday, episode two about those of us that feel guilty.
Oh, that was me. I was like, Oh my gosh, I'm going to embarrass her. I'm going to,
yeah. I mean, I didn't know what I know today.

(21:54):
And you know, if, if I had that experience today, I definitely would have said,
you know, you're wonderful, but it's alarming to me that you start to fall asleep.
I would have shown up with a pair of symbols.

(22:16):
Been like, clang, clang, clang goes the trolley. Wake up sister. Yeah. Oh my gosh.
Yeah. But you know, it's just one of those things. Also, I want to highlight that when you're in a
desperate place, you just, you'll cling on to whatever and just cross your fingers and your

(22:36):
toes praying that somehow this will work. Is that, uh, was that the same therapist that we did a
family session with? Yes. Oh my gosh. Oh my gosh. So a little history for, uh, us, our parents got
divorced when I was two. Anyways. Yeah. Around that time. And so throughout our lives, their

(23:07):
relationship was hot and cold in the early days. It was very, very, uh, disruptive,
full of anger, resentments, all of that. So as we got older, they found common ground and became
actually best of friends. And I remember, um, so that was the therapist you were going to.

(23:30):
And I think was that therapist or was, was it you who said, Oh, I think we would benefit from a
family therapy session. Wasn't it? It was that therapist. Okay. So you, mom, dad, and I went
in and we weren't, were we in grad school at the time? No. Okay. So we weren't therapists. No.

(23:56):
Okay. So we go in for that therapy session and you and I kind of pow wowed before the session.
It was like, Hey, where are we going? What are we going to say that kind of thing? And I just
remember and correct me if I'm wrong, we get in there, the four of us and the therapist,
I can't remember the context, but shortly into it, the therapist was like, Oh, you guys did a good

(24:23):
job to mom and dad about us. And from that point on, they were like, Oh, yeah, we don't need to be
here. We did a good job. So do I remember that? Right? We were, didn't I didn't that therapist say,
yeah, what do you remember from that? Nothing. Oh my gosh. Really? I can place us in her office,

(24:51):
but I don't, I don't remember anything about it. Oh my gosh. It is seared into memory. Yes. Because
I thought, first of all, neither one of our parents really kind of believed in therapy. I mean,
I think it was their generation that you just suck it up buttercup, but I think it was a really
big thing for us to go. And I just remember, I mean, I didn't actually have notes, but in my mind,

(25:20):
I was like, I wanted to address this and this and this. And as soon as that therapist told our
parents that they did a good job raising us, it was game over. Yeah. Like after that, I think I
tried to, or you try to bring up the not great times and they're like, Oh, it wasn't that bad.

(25:41):
Like, okay. I don't, I really do not remember anything about that session. I can't, I can't
tap into a feeling. Um, wow. Yeah. That's so funny. Yeah. Well, I think after that though,
funny side note that dad was like, Oh, therapy is pretty good. And he ended up finding somebody

(26:09):
and ironically, he went to somebody and that therapist was the same therapist.
Oh my God. No way. And from what I remember too, that person was private pay, right? It

(26:34):
wasn't insurance based. Uh, I think you guys paid out of pocket for that. Oh, you know what? I think
you're right. Yes. Oh my gosh. That is hysterical. Cause I remember dad being like, I can't believe
this person fell asleep for some reason. I thought it was a guy, but, um, yeah, that's funny. Yeah.

(26:55):
So that was that therapist experience. But what I will say is that while she was awake, um,
um, she, she gave some really great work. Oh my gosh. What was your biggest, like, what was the,
if you can remember, like the positive takeaway from your experience with that therapist? Um,

(27:22):
um, no, I remember the very moment, call her snoozy. No, I just, I remember, um,
there was this one session that, um, I said, I just know, I just know there's more to the story.

(27:42):
And it was the one and only time that she actually had my back in this. And she looked at my then
husband and said, um, one thing I know about your wife is that when she feels something, it's true.
So if you've got a truth to be told, you need to tell her now. And he did. Oh, wow. Yeah. Wow.

(28:08):
Wow. So that's pretty powerful stuff. Yeah. And that's what I'm saying. I mean, she was,
when she, you know, was tuned in and really able to be plugged in and she was highly effective.
Yeah. Wow. Well, that's good. That's good. Yeah. So that was my, um,

(28:31):
um, second therapist experience. Yeah. So moving right along with my journey, um, I was about 40.
I remember I had turned 40 and I had a family member have a pretty significant mental health

(28:51):
crisis and I was in the field by now and I just, I did not know what to do and it was so scary.
And it was, yeah, probably one of the moments in my life that I was on my knees praying, just help,

(29:13):
help, help. And at that point, being in the field, and now picking a therapist was so daunting
because I had probably my ego at play a couple things going on that I was like, well, who's
going to help me? You know, whatever. And I think I got a recommendation. Oh, I know what it was.

(29:41):
Yeah. A family friend had given me a recommendation and I called that person and they said they didn't
have any room, but that their colleague did. And so I went to, uh, that individual who changed my
life, absolutely changed my life in such a transformative way. And what was interesting was

(30:06):
for me, so the first two therapists were female, this therapist was a male and he was very much
a straight shooter. Like I think in the past, because of my adapted survival was humor, talking,

(30:28):
redirecting, and this guy was like, yeah, that's not going to happen here.
And really had a very straightforward approach, which for me and my brain worked so well. And
I just remember sharing thoughts and ideas of how I saw myself in this world or whatever. And at one

(30:55):
point I remember, and this was long after we established maybe six months or a year. And I
said something, I can't remember what it was like, I don't know, a negative self belief statement or
something. And he just liked having, he's like, bullshit. And I remember that moment, my brain

(31:21):
you're a therapist. You shouldn't swear like this shouldn't be happening. It was so disorienting,
but it was so powerful. And I think strategically he knew that that's what needed to happen to have
me really pause my brain and say, actually what I just said about myself is bullshit. It's not true.

(31:47):
Yeah. And I stayed with him, uh, I want to say like two years and he really helped a lot processing
the loss of our dad and that grief work that I had compartmentalized and just put on a shelf and said,
I'm fine. I'm fine. So hugely, hugely vast difference between that experience and the

(32:16):
former two experiences. And I really got to see what good therapy was like and how much that
informed my practice with clients and how, you know, I think we can both agree. I have more of
a straight shooter approach to things and, um, having that experience kind of affirmed that,

(32:42):
yeah, I can show up with my clients in that same way and be effective. So sure.
Yeah. So my next experience, um, was after dad passed, um, which was just beyond excruciating.
And how old were you? I was 38. Yeah. Cause I was 32. Yeah. And, um, it was the first time in my life

(33:11):
that I had ever experienced depression where I literally, I think I just wanted to stay in bed.
I didn't, I didn't want to do anything. And I remember that, uh, Christmas, which was probably
six weeks, eight weeks after he passed and, um, I got up my kids, you know, have always been the

(33:41):
most important thing to me. So I got up and I just, I looked at my husband, I said, I gotta go back
to bed and like, it just absolutely blew me apart. And about four months after he passed, I saw a
bereavement group being offered at our, um, home health and hospice. And I was desperate, like I

(34:09):
needed help. So I reached out and I signed myself up and the facilitator of this group,
um, was a licensed social worker and she had worked in hospice for decades. And it was just
the most amazing experience. It was a 10 week once a week. And I got to experience firsthand

(34:38):
how powerful group work can be. And after the 10 weeks, you know, I came out the other side
and I was whole again and I was able to function. Yeah. I remember that. Yeah. It was truly,
truly a blessing. And then when we went to grad school and we had to get an internship,

(35:03):
I went back to that licensed social worker and asked if she'd take me on as an internship in
hospice. And because of dad's situation, you know, I clearly saw that, um, everybody was watching him
around the clock, but I also realized us being in the critical care unit waiting room that nobody

(35:25):
came to check on us and we were experiencing trauma. Sure. And so I asked her, I asked her,
I asked her if I could work with family members and she said, sure. And so I worked there for a
year. So yeah, it's, it is, it's amazing how it went full circle. Yeah. And, uh, you just prompted

(35:50):
my memory because just like most things in our lives, whatever you do, I do too. And I remember
how much you got out of that. So I ended up signing up on the Cape for the hospice support group
and got a lot out of that. Yeah. So anybody out there that is, you know, in a space, um,

(36:15):
individual work is fantastic, but I would also highly recommend looking for a group in your area
or even telehealth, um, for the area that you're struggling with. Yeah. Yeah. Being able to be in
the room with people who had also lost a parent because I believe my group was specific to losing

(36:39):
parents. My group. Um, and that was the really fascinating thing for me to be in a group. And I
was the youngest by probably 30, maybe 25 years. Yeah. And everybody had lost a loved one. Um,
it was a, a sibling, a wife, actually, actually two wives, two of the men lost their, um, partners.

(37:10):
Um, yeah, but nobody had lost their parent. Oh, okay. In that particular group. I mean,
yeah, they had lost their parents decades before. Um, and how with all of us having a different
loved one loss, how we all came together and it was just about being supported.

(37:33):
Right. Right. Yeah. That was my first, uh, group experience and I very much,
it was exactly what I needed at the time and it was very, it was a hard experience,
but a lovely experience at the same time. So yeah, to your point, recommending group,

(37:56):
maybe as an entry way into experience what that supportive care can feel like. Yeah, absolutely.
Absolutely. So bringing us on home, I, my next, my next therapeutic experience was I,

(38:18):
when I turned 50. So I think these milestone birthdays tend to rock my world a little bit.
Um, yeah, it was my 50th birthday and I, we were away and I started to experience what I
had never experienced or now I understand I had experienced, but didn't know what a panic attack

(38:45):
was. And, uh, I knew I was in trouble because it was, they were starting to come on fast and
furious. And I, again, ego involved or whatever, I started looking for a therapist. And so this

(39:05):
was only about four years ago and I was in that consumer hell of trying to find somebody who took
my insurance, who could offer me what I needed and all of that stuff. And I remember talking to one
person on the phone and I was like, no, this is not going to work. And I think you were helping me

(39:29):
to try and find somebody too. And I just remember that moment of, because now understanding my
control stuff that I had to just let go and whoever I was led to, I was led to and thank goodness,
I found, um, this angel who was a practitioner of EMDR and that modality changed my life,

(40:01):
uh, as far as therapy. And for those of you who don't know what EMDR, it's an acronym. If you
put in EMDR.com, you'd be able to do some research on it, but the premise is being able to read
program the brain, which actually this modality speaks to our, our, uh, mission on how to heal

(40:27):
the brain. And I don't want to get too far into how it all works, but it was instrumental in
helping me manage, uh, the panic attacks. And yeah, I can't say enough about that modality.
So my next was at 50 as well. Oh, was it? Yeah. Get out. Yeah. Um,

(40:55):
Louise, we might need to look into this. Well, it's funny because, um, you know, I work,
I was working with the military and I remember talking to a VA nurse and, um, you know, she
didn't know my story from Adam. And I just remember her saying that 50 is that age where things start

(41:19):
to implode, whether it's high blood pressure, whether it's diabetes diagnosis, that the body
really starts to decompensate. Oh my gosh. That's awful. Yeah. Can we choose a different word than
decompensate? No, but the thing is, is that that's what happened to me. I went into hypertension

(41:40):
crisis. I never had high blood pressure. I never had anything like this. And, um,
once I realized how high my blood pressure was, the only thing that came running through my head
was unprocessed trauma. It's trauma related. It's trauma related. And so now I'm on the other side

(42:02):
right. Because I'm a licensed clinician at this point and nothing, um, I did that had worked in
the past as far as supplements or nutrients or anything like that was working. And, um,
I put in Google and I was trying to find a trauma specialist and nothing was coming up. I was looking

(42:31):
specifically for someone who just solely focused on trauma because, you know, I know that we can
graduate with our masters and we can tick the box that we treat everything under the sun. But I
didn't want that. I just, my gut knew I needed someone. And so I was so disheartened. I just
didn't know what I was going to do, but I knew I needed intervention. And this one day I went back

(42:57):
to the computer and I don't know what I put in because I thought I put in the exact thing that
I had put in every other time. And this one name came up and this woman was probably a 35 minute
drive from me, which I would have driven 20 hours to find somebody who could help me.

(43:20):
So I reached out to her and she had room on her caseload and that is where I started my deepest
work in the trauma. And, you know, like we were saying yesterday, I was that person like, oh,
I'm good. Yeah, no, I'm fine. Yeah, I've had trauma, but I'm good. Right. Right. That was all on a

(43:42):
conscious frontal lobe, right? Thought pattern, right? What I wasn't acknowledging was the
experiences that were repressed and in the subconscious world, right? Because they weren't
okay. And what took me to really stop and do the work was blood pressure. That was 212 over 126

(44:06):
and a head that was ready to explode. And so I spent probably the next year and a half with her
and just layer by layer by layer by layer. And so I feel so blessed to have been the recipient

(44:29):
of a phenomenal therapist. Right. And I just reached out to her. I hadn't talked to her in
probably a couple of years and I reached out to her probably about six months ago and,
you know, I told her what was going on. And by the second session, she said, you seem like

(44:52):
you're doing much better. And I said, I am. And she's like, why do you think that is? And I said,
because I heard your voice last week and I got it. Right. Right. So, you know, that's the impact
that a therapist should have on your being. Right. And also being able to reach out to her two years

(45:17):
later and hit the ground running and you don't, obviously you didn't need to have multiple
multiple sessions. If you needed them, you could have had them, but how quickly your nervous system,
your brain rebounded and that's why I am always when I'm closing with clients, I have an open door

(45:40):
policy of you can come in for a 30 mile checkup and we'll rotate the tires and get you back out
on the track. And I think there's huge benefit with having that relationship established. Yeah,
absolutely. And I had scheduled like six appointments with her, um, that first session

(46:05):
and like on the sixth session, I'm like, I'm good. Yeah. And I was good on after session one,
right? Right. But I just wanted to make sure that I was really good. Right. Well, I, the last part
of my therapy, which I'm still doing and as like you with trauma work is, uh, still with EMDR,

(46:31):
the person who I started with retired after two years and, uh, that was a real loss for me. And
I thought, Oh my gosh, I won't be able to find anyone. And I did, and it was a seamless transition
and the work we do is very holistically based. So this practitioner is very much into mind, body

(46:55):
healing, which is speaks to my soul. And we continue to do the work of, um, having PTSD and
being able to reprogram the brain so that I'm not stuck in fight or flight, which for all of,
all of you who have that same kind of brain that gets stuck in fight or flight, you know,

(47:17):
how uncomfortable it is. But, um, I think the importance of us talking about this is not just
to share our experiences, but hopefully offer some insights so that for those of you who have never
tried therapy, um, it's a process and hopefully there are some times where I think the importance

(47:44):
of sharing our experiences to normalize that therapy shouldn't be scary. It shouldn't be
shouldn't be something that you're afraid to try. And also knowing that if you reach out to somebody,
you're going to know in the first couple of sessions, if it's the right vibe,
definitely. And I think it's somewhat of an energetic exchange, you know, and just know that

(48:12):
therapists go to therapy. I remember saying something to a client saying, well, my therapist
and they were shocked. They were like, wait, you go to therapy? Like, yes. I mean, I just don't play
one on TV as they say, I think it's important. Um, yeah. So, yeah, because it's about keeping

(48:39):
yourself healthy. It's about putting that investment into you and making sure that you're
as clear as possible. And in the line of work that we do, we want to show up at our highest invest.
And I think why wouldn't I want to set apart an hour a week that I could just talk about myself

(49:04):
and someone has to listen to me. That's like my dream gig.
Oh my gosh.
All right. Well, I hope this was helpful. It was actually pretty, pretty amazing to walk down memory
lane with you and the things that I didn't remember that you do and vice versa. So that's

(49:27):
the blessing of being able to do this podcast together. Yeah, for sure. Well, thank you for
joining us. Wishing you a great day and talk to you soon. Bye. Bye.