November 6, 2024 • 32 mins
Welcome to another enlightening episode of The Hot Dish, comfort food for middle America. We've curated a rich and thoughtful discussion to explore key issues impacting rural and urban communities alike.
In this episode, Joel has a fascinating conversation with Dee Davis, the founder of the Center for Rural Strategies. Dee discusses the foundational importance of human connections and shared experiences to bridge the gaps between rural and urban areas. He also highlights The Daily Yonder, the Center's publication dedicated to amplifying rural voices.
Joel also dives deep into the complexities of gun policy with Joe Mason and T.D. Hill, co-founders of Pro Gun Democrats. They bring a nuanced perspective on finding a middle ground in the gun control debate, advocating for common-sense measures like a three-day waiting period and banning binary triggers and bump stocks.
Joe Mason sheds light on the resistance to change from organizations like the NRA and stresses the importance of one-on-one discussions to foster understanding and common ground. T.D. Hill shares insights on the challenge of shifting deeply ingrained talking points but finds hope in individual conversations leading to agreement on sensible measures.
Join us on The Hot Dish every other week, where we serve up hearty conversations that resonate with every corner of the country.
To learn more, visit https://onecountryproject.org
Center for Rural Strategies: https://www.ruralstrategies.org/
The Pro Gun Democrat: https://theprogundemocrat.com/
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:04):
Welcome to the Hot Dish Comfort food for middle America. I'm Heidi
Heitkamp. And I'm Joel Heitkamp. Today is November 6th,
the day after the 2024 elections, but we
recorded this last week. We'll have a post election
bonus episode out soon. Want to thank all our listeners
for your continued support. We really love hearing from you. So
(00:27):
please keep those questions and suggestions coming.
Reach out to us via email at podcast@onecountryproject.org and
be sure to check
out onecountryproject.org for more updates on what we're
doing to lift up rural voices in Washington. For this
episode, Joel spoke with Dee Davis, founder of the center for
(00:49):
Rural Strategies, where they had an enlightening conversation
on how to amplify the voices of rural communities through
media. But first, Joel, you also spoke with a couple of people.
That's right, Hyde. I spoke with two of the founders of the Pro
Gun Democrats. I didn't know that it was going to be with Joe
Mason, and I didn't know it was going to be with T.D. Hill. But I'm,
(01:11):
I'm thankful, like you wouldn't believe that the organization that they've built
is the type of organization that I think is so desperately
needed out there. Now. These individuals are co founders
of Pro Gun Democrats and I welcome you to the
Hot Dish. T.D., good to have you with us. Thank you. Good to be here.
You bet. And Joe, same to you. Good to be with you. Thank you. Thanks
(01:32):
for the invitation. All right, one of you two started Pro Gun
Democrats. One of you two was sitting with the other one and said, you know
what we should do? I don't know which one of you it is, but whoever
it is, go ahead and kick in. Why'd you do it? Well, T.D. and I
met at work, Alex Fortner, our other co founder,
we met at a gun show. And we all have had
(01:53):
an interest in politics for quite a while.
And one of the things that we've been concerned about
even pre Trump was that there's a lot of
misinformation that too many Americans have come to
believe and that's influencing their politics.
We attend a lot of gun shows. We attend a lot of military
(02:14):
collectors collector shows. And we run
into this repeatedly. People talking about the fact
that they think Trump won the 2020 election. They
think that the Affordable Care act is socialized
medicine. Most recently, of course, you've
heard that people are thinking that Haitian immigrants are
(02:36):
eating people's pets in Springfield, Ohio. So we
were very concerned about that. And in sort of the little
niche environment that we operate in, we decided to
start our website mostly for our own
informational purposes, to store stories
and data that we wanted to quickly reference.
(02:58):
Over time, we decided we want to share this with some
of the people that we're talking with. And so we formalized
the site a little more and we're making it available
to those people that we talk with. That's kind of
a brief background in how we got started. So
T.D., is this something that you were looking at like I
(03:21):
was and saying, man, I've got to get to work on this. This
is something we in the rural area desperately need? Yeah, I felt very,
very strong about it because as you know, in rural America there's a
strong Christian base and it seems that right has reached
out through that channel for churches and pastors
and so forth, conferences and
(03:43):
impacted people seems to have the narrative that they
have a monopoly, patriotism and
the Constitution. That's just not true. I mean a lot of the
things that affect people's day to day lives really are being
better represented by the Democrats, but that doesn't seem to be the
message. You know, I just felt like it was kind of urgent like
(04:06):
Joe said, you know, kind of dispel some of the rumors and the myths
and get back to reality. So I'm going to, I'm going to go to
you T.D. on this one first, which is
I could easily ask, you know, why the public
believes that Democrats don't use guns, that
Democrats don't see gun ownership as a right that we have as
(04:27):
well, and that the public has a narrative that Democrats
all want to take your guns. Where did that start
from? That's a good question. I mean, you know, there's a lot of us, you
know, I come from a very blue area, to be honest with you,
and I come from a union family and
most of my dad's family were hunters. And so I've
(04:49):
had guns in my hand ever since I can remember. And the
idea that only conservatives are gun
owners passionate about the second Amendment, it just
falls. Well and Joe, I'm going to phrase it a little bit
different, which is do we let the media get by with it? Is
that why what you're doing with the pro gun Democrats
(05:10):
so important? Because media just continues
at that one in a box narrative and they never talk to
individuals like us 3 definitely. On the right wing media
side, that's all you hear, is that
Democrats want to take your guns away. And
in the, I guess as Tom Hartman might say, the corporate
(05:32):
Media, they don't seem to offer the other side
either. Well, let me throw another one under that same
kind of direction because I think it goes to something
that we have that people
in general don't have, and that's a knowledge of guns, a knowledge
of weapons. You know, we hear them use certain terms,
(05:55):
certain terms that instantly put everything into a
box. For example, oftentimes they believe
any gun with a synthetic stock is an ar. They
believe and don't understand what
certain guns do mechanically. And they believe it works
completely different than what you and I know.
(06:17):
And Joe, I want to throw this one at you. How can we have
common sense gun laws until the people that write
them on the left understand how a weapon
works? One of the problems that, and just getting
back to your previous question too, is that there are a lot of
people on the left who do
(06:39):
advocate taking at least some guns away from
gun owners. If you remember back in 2020
when Beto O'Rourke was running for president, I believe he
was, he was, he actually said, hell yeah, we're going to take your
guns. That just plays right into the right wing
narrative. And you know, that that's,
(07:01):
that that gets back to, you know, why we started our site
and why we've been now trying to promote it more is to,
particularly in rural America where,
you know, I think citizens are getting misled
by the right wing media that has
done an effective job in misleading them on this issue. I couldn't
(07:23):
agree more, T.D. when it comes to
that, when it comes to being able to change the narrative
in light of everything that's going on in the world out there, when you, when
you've got a guy leaving his gun at a fence line at
a golf course, when you have another one crawling up on a roof trying
to shoot a former president of the United
(07:45):
States, you've got all of these school
shootings. I guess what I'm building to here
is do you think people are ever
going to change their minds on guns, period?
I mean, do you think that your work can get out there strong
enough to say, listen, we just want to tell you
(08:07):
what guns are and what we do with guns? Yeah,
that's a tough one. Like you said, the 24 hour media of the corporate
media, they tend to play these things on loop over and
over again, show the tragedies and the horror and the
bad things. They're not showing people going to the range
and just enjoying barbecue and going hunting and father
(08:29):
son's moments, family moments. I think that we can reach people and
I think that we have reached people in the sense that first we have to
start off by finding our commonalities and we can better
communicate our differences. Joe, I'm going to throw this
one at you because as with anything,
there is some middle ground in there that it seems to me that we as
(08:51):
gun owners should be willing to talk about and yield to.
And then there are things that kind of on the left that they should
understand a little better. In other words, this having served
in the state senate, doing a talk show, oftentimes I've pointed out
that I, you know, if I looked at anything when it comes to
control, when it comes to guns, I think there should be a three day waiting
(09:14):
period. I don't think there should be binary triggers. I don't think there should be
bump stocks. I think we should be able to limit the size of
clips. You see where I'm going with this, Joe? I mean, you
can, you can do all of those things without taking
someone's guns and yet making them work in a way that
they should work. Joel and you know, when we talk. To gun owners, we try
(09:36):
to bring things up exactly what you're talking about. One of the
things that we face though is organizations like the
NRA and others are digging their heels in
and they maybe for political reasons,
they aren't looking to compromise. And
I'm more optimistic that we can some middle ground with the
(09:58):
left that I am, that we can reach some middle ground with the right.
You know, one on one, you know, I think we have some success when we
talk with people. Our feeling is that when I talk to
somebody at a gun show site and we get into this subject, I say to
them, what can we do to keep guns out of hands of people who
should not have them? And a lot of times that sets these people
(10:21):
aback. They have not really thought that through yet. And
the more we talk about it, the more some of the things
that you brought up start making more sense to them.
But too often they're in this world where they just are
talking to people just like them. They're talking to people
on Facebook who they're not really discussing an
(10:43):
issue. They're just giving brief little sound
bite answers. You know, you can't really reach people when
you're talking in sound bites. And that's why we like talking to people
one on one, just in person. And as
Tim Waltz said at the convention, you know, we're going to move the ball down
the field one yard at a time, one inch at a time, one voter at
(11:04):
a time. And hopefully we're making some impact there. I've
had the pleasure of having Tim Walz on my show a number of times,
and the one thing that I know is the fact he knows what it's
like to put on camo and go out and get after the pheasants a little
bit, which I think all three of us, whether it's deer hunting or
pheasant hunting or duck and goose, but it doesn't
(11:27):
change the fact that the right is defining
us, that we're not engaging
in the conversation. That's why I'm so happy to hear your
group, the pro gun Democrats. And let me throw it
to you this way, T.D. so you're sitting in a room, as many of us
have, with the number of people that do exactly what we do.
(11:49):
Maybe we're shooting trap, maybe we're out hunting, whatever, and they
start this. They start this. We as Democrats want to take away your
guns. How hard is it when you're in that
room? And obviously you guys want to engage in that conversation,
so I know you do. How hard is it to get heads nodding
up and down agreeing with what you're saying? It really depends
(12:12):
on the audience. You know what? I think that going back to what. Joe had
said earlier, speaking in sound bites and you're talking to people on social media,
people are accustomed to that type of dialogue and discourse. Now,
people often just listen to respond. Don'T listen to understand.
So first you have to kind of. Make sure you have a rapport with. People
and that you're actually having a conversation, not talking at one
(12:33):
another. Once that's established, honestly, because we do have that
commonality of enjoying, you know, the outdoors, using
guns in a responsible manner. Some people will
take a hard line and just, you know, regurgitate talking points, but a lot of
times it's like, yeah, you know, a lot of this stuff does make sense. It's
a lot of fear, you know, of being guns being taken away. But if
(12:55):
I'm talking to people one on one, that we can find some common ground.
Now, does it always mean they're going to flip the script and vote a different
way? That's a little bit. Sometimes a little bit harder. Send them. Don.
I had a gentleman call into my radio show the other day
and. And his message to my audience was.
And it was interesting, the first way he said it, he said, they're
(13:16):
coming. And then there was a long pregnant pause and then he goes, they're
coming. And the point wasn't, they're coming
for my guns as somebody who owned guns. The individual
did. His point was that next generation, if
not my children but my grandchildren, are going to
say to heck with you. We're, we're not going to sit
(13:38):
here under this whole old thought that
second Amendment reads the way we want it to read. We're going to, we're going
to sit here and have some common sense gun laws or they are going to
go to a further place than what any of us should because they're
in the generation that's getting shot up in schools. And
Joe, I'm curious what you think of that, what you thought of that.
(14:00):
Caller, you know, when we talk with people and one of
the things that I bring up with them is, okay,
how do we stop all these senseless shootings?
And I think we can agree, well, I hope we can
agree, everybody, that there are people who
should not own guns, that they are a danger to
(14:21):
themselves, they're a danger to a spouse, they're a danger to
others. And
that's where, you know, we need to,
we need to, we need to challenge the right and say, listen, if we don't
come up with a solution to keep the guns, to keep guns out of the
hands of people who shouldn't have them, then that is going to
(14:43):
happen. Guns will get taken away because people are going
to reach a point where they think that's the only
solution. And so I challenge those on the right to
join us and engage in trying to
come up with some common sense solutions to the
senseless shootings that we're seeing on just a far
(15:05):
too often basis. Well, and here's
my frustration, guys. We had some of that. I mean,
we had a ban on automatic weapons, right? So
here we are down to semiautomatic weapons, and then
they find ways to get around it. They put bump stocks on it so they
shoot quicker. They put binary triggers on it. You know, the recent
(15:27):
shooting we had in the Georgia schools, I
believe I read that Governor Kemp
immediately thereafter came out and said,
now's not the time to talk about gun legislation. Well, there
never does seem to be a time to talk about it with
those folks on the far right. It can be very frustrating. All
(15:49):
I can say is we just keep plugging along, you know, one
yard at a time, one inch at a time. And let's
challenge these myths that are out there. Let's bust these myths that are out
there that too many people are believing these days. Well,
guys, I think a lot of us as Democrats that understand
exactly what you're talking about are pretty glad there's a group like
(16:11):
Pro Gun Democrats to take this on. Joe, what's your website? How do they get
in touch with you guys?
Www.theprogundemocrat.com
Guys, thank you. Keep doing what you're doing. I really appreciate
it. Thank you, Joel. Great. Thanks for having us on, Joel.
(16:35):
You know, this is a real treat for me. I've been looking forward to this.
I get to visit with Dee Davis now. Dee is the founder for the Center
for Rural Strategies and a Carsey Senior
Fellow. Now, here's the thing. We here at One country are
trying to find any possible ways to communicate that
real message to the world. Well, I'm about to talk to a
(16:57):
master of that, and that is Dee Davis. Dee, good to have
you on with us here at One Country. Thanks, Joel. I'm glad to be here.
I mean, you're built for The Hot Dish. I mean, you are, you're
just built for this conversation, man. I mean, you've spent
decades amplifying the voices of rural communities, media,
public information campaigns. I mean, this has been a passion of yours,
(17:20):
Dee. Well, I have to do something to keep out of the streets. I
think that, you know, we've had some adventures. We've got
to make some movies and tell some stories
and that's all fun. And this work is fun,
too. You know, I think that helping get rural stories out
is worth the effort. And, you know, you make new friends all the
(17:42):
time. Well, the Hot Dish is meant to bring rural
to urban and meant to tie rural together.
But I'm going to ask you the obvious question. Do we in the rural
area matter? Yeah. It's interesting because
this has been the election cycle
(18:02):
that we've been kind of hoping for him in the
last Clinton Gore won rural America.
And then there was a kind of a decision by the Democrats
to just ignore it and hope it goes
away. And so you go
from 50% or more of the
(18:24):
world votes being Democrat to just becoming
a one party Republican stronghold where nobody
has to promise anything or change
anything because only one party shows up.
So this has been interesting because with Walz on
the ticket, the narrative started to shift. There's been a
(18:47):
lot of discussion. Rural, I wouldn't say it's always informed. I mean, I don't
know how many news stories I've heard about
Harrison Walz and rural Savannah, Georgia.
You know, it could be 400,000 people there, but
it's like that's rural because it's not Atlanta. And I think that
in some ways that it's an attempt
(19:09):
to go back and
reclaim the discourse. Right. To be
part of the debate, which I think for rural communities is pretty
important. Right. I think just felt left out,
not maybe you could say ignored, but in some
way. Is this like the point that you said, do we matter? It's
(19:32):
like, are we noticed? Yeah, well, and I'll give
you an example of my life here as a
talk show host in Montana, South Dakota, North Dakota, you know,
Minnesota, big areas there, huge red area.
But if instead of losing three out of
four votes or three out of five votes, you know, you
(19:54):
lose, you know, two or three, that that's a good day. I mean
if you just gain one here or there. And so it always
leaves questions. And the question I would have for you, Dee,
is this redistricting and the Democrats are just as
guilty of this as anyone of carving out these safe
congressional districts. Has that hurt us in the rural area?
(20:16):
When you have non competitive races,
then the whole idea of
a democratic way to address your issues,
solve your problems goes away. You don't need to
have a good honest argument. You don't have
to put all the cards on the table because
(20:38):
the political solution has already been determined before
you go to the polls. So that doesn't help.
And I mean I think in this, we've done some
polling in the last year or so and I was interested
in what it found because it had found
that the Democrats supported narrative. About a third
(21:00):
in the rural battleground states that we looked at
in Montana I think was among those. But what
it showed that I wasn't expecting
was I think probably 30,
35% of the votes were gettable, they could go either
way. And then more interestingly I
(21:21):
think was what messages
people were hurting. They, they definitely were not
happy about the cost of gas or eggs.
But what I was not expecting was there was a
kind of just a rancorous anti
corporate feeling that the people were mad at the businesses,
(21:44):
the big businesses. They were ready for somebody to step
up and speak up for them. The whole
insulin price thing was an important issue.
So it wasn't so easy
to pigeonhole rural responses
in kind of Republican MAGA
(22:05):
talking points. They were, people were still interested. And if you could go
one step farther, what I would say if I
were to characterize the way that rural voters
felt was back to your point about mattering, is
that they want to be part of the solution. I mean they've
spent a lot of time feeding and fueling and
(22:27):
providing resources and providing labor for
this country to prosper. And I don't
want to be left out of the story. They don't want to be left out
of the American narrative. They feel like they've got a way to contribute
and it's not just taking care of themselves. They're like taking care of others. And
I think in some ways, when political
(22:49):
decisions are made for efficiency, well, these are where our
voters are. There are more people here. We're just going to work on delivering
these votes. That it's kind of like
understanding the cost of everything and the value of nothing. It's
kind of understanding one side
of the picture but not understanding the other. And I think
(23:11):
that politics is cultural,
it's emotional. It's not just cold,
hard policy facts. And the
reason I took you down that trail to start this
conversation was really because of what you do, which is,
you know, to tell that real story, to get out there and
(23:33):
use media, use public information. How do we
get to where we're paid attention
to? Yeah, I think first of all, it helps when the politicians show
up. I mean, that's if they show up, then you
can tell them a story. And it's not just
about sending messages. It's about being in a
(23:55):
conversation. It's about listening as much as it is
talking. And I think in some ways that
when people show up in your
neighborhood, have an honest conversation about what
the community needs, what the community hopes for, what
the communities tore up about, then
(24:17):
I think you have a kind of an honest
place to begin, a constructive relationship.
Yeah. You say when they show up, though,
and you take the state I live in that I choose to
live in, right here in North Dakota, you know, we had the
farmers union go to a fly in in D.C. and
(24:39):
this is the third or fourth year in a row they've been there as
many as, you know, 70 people at times. And
they can't get one of our United States senators to meet with him
because he just feels like he doesn't have to meet with them.
And so it's awful tough to make him come to your small town cafe when
he doesn't even come back to the state. Well, I think in some ways
(25:02):
that's part of how you had to push back on the stories.
That's how you have to tell the story so that you can't
be ignored. In this electronic
communications system that we're observing
now, it's harder and harder to get people
face to face. But get your neighbors face to
(25:24):
face, you can get your pals, you can towns can
talk to other towns. You can begin to change
a conversation. It just takes Some effort, little
plot. So if you could explain to
people how you build that story.
If you have this story that's happening in
(25:46):
this area, this rural area, and it's, you know, somebody
with the talents that you have says, this story
deserves to be told. It needs to be out there. How do
you make that happen? D. Well, I think in a way, you got
to. You gotta be an honest broker, right? You can't just
tell the stories that benefit you. You gotta be in
(26:08):
an honest conversation. And, you know, it's like
real life's not always cake and sauce. People aren't
always doing their best. But a lot of people have
hopes. A lot of people have a desire to do
good. And I think in some ways that you've got to tell a
story that people understand. You know,
(26:31):
we all feel the sun on our back. We get wet in the
rain. We fear death. We worry about
our kids. Are they going to be all right? We
look after people in our community who
are down on their luck. I think in some ways, you got to
start the story in a place that's real
(26:52):
for everybody. Not just. Not just for people in your community,
not just for rural people, but for people everywhere. You got to build those
bridges, and the stories will change
people. They'll change their outlook. If you tell a good
story, then people can respond. They can
be part of it. So I think part of it is, it's just.
(27:14):
It's just what you say down at the cafe. You just
tell a story, and people who are practiced at call
and response, people are practicing telling
the tale, getting response in. I think, in a way, you just have to
figure out how to get that story scaled up a little bit.
And, you know, and now with. With all the
(27:36):
technology, you can get that story out a little bit better
here and there. You know, there's some ways to do it, and
so it doesn't work every time, but. But, you know, you just
keep pushing. You just kind of keep trying your
best to make contact. Dee Davis is our
guest here on the Hot Dish, and we're talking about how to connect
(27:58):
with more of urban area from a rural area.
Dee, I'm sitting here looking at my
granddaughter, and she's a better
communicator, I think, than what I ever will
be. And she is because of this,
not because she brings more passion to the argument. In fact, I think she's
(28:19):
just learning how to do that. But the tools
that she uses, you know, the methods that she goes
about, it's a changing world. She has the
ability to convey a message
electronically and have it go to
places that one would have hoped to if he was going to
(28:41):
accomplish the goals that we're talking about. I don't know if you're
seeing that in your life as well. I was at a T ball
game the other day with my 5 year old
grandson and his twin sister came
and got on my lap and
said, pop, I want to go to the concession stand. I would have
(29:03):
probably bought the concession stand for her, you
know, at that point, it's like if her mother
hadn't stopped me, you know, I think in some ways it's
like we are touched
by human responses
to problems. We're touched by people who
(29:24):
feel joy. We're touched by
people who give a little extra effort
to help out. And I think in some ways those are
the tools that you use in communication. Those are the tools you use in your
community. And even when
things are looking bleak, those are the foundational ways we
(29:47):
move forward is to understand
what we have in common. Do you tell people where to find your
work? Because I'll tell you what I want to know as well. Well, the Center
for Rural Strategies is based here in
Weisburg, Kentucky, but we kind of work everywhere.
The Daily Yonder is our publication. You can go to
(30:09):
dailyyonder.com and that's, that's our newspaper.
But it's also a way to link into
our multimedia work. It's a way to
link into the Rural assembly, which is a
organization of rural organizations, as a way
to define us so well. Thank
(30:30):
you. Thank you very much. I really appreciate you taking time with us
here on the Hot Dish. I really enjoyed getting to visit you bet. Such
a pleasure.
I think it's been a spirited episode and a special episode with
these two unique guests sharing important perspectives and
(30:51):
information. Joel, I'm telling you, that is a question I get all the
time from people who live on the coast who don't have, you know, kind of
our experience with the second Amendment and how people feel about
their guns. Well, and the thing I would add to that, Heidi,
is, you know, a lot of people don't understand guns maybe the
way you and I do. You know, we grew up with them. Well, I sure
(31:14):
enjoyed hearing from them.
Let us know what you think, ask us questions, give us your
suggestions. Thank you for joining us today on the Hot Dish, which is
brought to you by One Country Project. Make sure
the voice of the rest of us are heard in Washington. Learn
more at onecountryproject.org we'll be back in two
(31:35):
weeks with more Hot Dish comfort food for middle America. Stay tuned
for a post election bonus episode. And remember, you
could email us at
podcast@onecountryproject.org.
Welcome to the Hot Dish Comfort food for middle America. I'm Heidi
Heitkamp. And I'm Joel Heitkamp. Today is November 6th,
the day after the 2024 elections, but we
recorded this last week. We'll have a post election
bonus episode out soon. Want to thank all our listeners
for your continued support. We really love hearing from you. So
(00:27):
please keep those questions and suggestions coming.
Reach out to us via email at podcast@onecountryproject.org and
be sure to check
out onecountryproject.org for more updates on what we're
doing to lift up rural voices in Washington. For this
episode, Joel spoke with Dee Davis, founder of the center for
(00:49):
Rural Strategies, where they had an enlightening conversation
on how to amplify the voices of rural communities through
media. But first, Joel, you also spoke with a couple of people.
That's right, Hyde. I spoke with two of the founders of the Pro
Gun Democrats. I didn't know that it was going to be with Joe
Mason, and I didn't know it was going to be with T.D. Hill. But I'm,
(01:11):
I'm thankful, like you wouldn't believe that the organization that they've built
is the type of organization that I think is so desperately
needed out there. Now. These individuals are co founders
of Pro Gun Democrats and I welcome you to the
Hot Dish. T.D., good to have you with us. Thank you. Good to be here.
You bet. And Joe, same to you. Good to be with you. Thank you. Thanks
(01:32):
for the invitation. All right, one of you two started Pro Gun
Democrats. One of you two was sitting with the other one and said, you know
what we should do? I don't know which one of you it is, but whoever
it is, go ahead and kick in. Why'd you do it? Well, T.D. and I
met at work, Alex Fortner, our other co founder,
we met at a gun show. And we all have had
(01:53):
an interest in politics for quite a while.
And one of the things that we've been concerned about
even pre Trump was that there's a lot of
misinformation that too many Americans have come to
believe and that's influencing their politics.
We attend a lot of gun shows. We attend a lot of military
(02:14):
collectors collector shows. And we run
into this repeatedly. People talking about the fact
that they think Trump won the 2020 election. They
think that the Affordable Care act is socialized
medicine. Most recently, of course, you've
heard that people are thinking that Haitian immigrants are
(02:36):
eating people's pets in Springfield, Ohio. So we
were very concerned about that. And in sort of the little
niche environment that we operate in, we decided to
start our website mostly for our own
informational purposes, to store stories
and data that we wanted to quickly reference.
(02:58):
Over time, we decided we want to share this with some
of the people that we're talking with. And so we formalized
the site a little more and we're making it available
to those people that we talk with. That's kind of
a brief background in how we got started. So
T.D., is this something that you were looking at like I
(03:21):
was and saying, man, I've got to get to work on this. This
is something we in the rural area desperately need? Yeah, I felt very,
very strong about it because as you know, in rural America there's a
strong Christian base and it seems that right has reached
out through that channel for churches and pastors
and so forth, conferences and
(03:43):
impacted people seems to have the narrative that they
have a monopoly, patriotism and
the Constitution. That's just not true. I mean a lot of the
things that affect people's day to day lives really are being
better represented by the Democrats, but that doesn't seem to be the
message. You know, I just felt like it was kind of urgent like
(04:06):
Joe said, you know, kind of dispel some of the rumors and the myths
and get back to reality. So I'm going to, I'm going to go to
you T.D. on this one first, which is
I could easily ask, you know, why the public
believes that Democrats don't use guns, that
Democrats don't see gun ownership as a right that we have as
(04:27):
well, and that the public has a narrative that Democrats
all want to take your guns. Where did that start
from? That's a good question. I mean, you know, there's a lot of us, you
know, I come from a very blue area, to be honest with you,
and I come from a union family and
most of my dad's family were hunters. And so I've
(04:49):
had guns in my hand ever since I can remember. And the
idea that only conservatives are gun
owners passionate about the second Amendment, it just
falls. Well and Joe, I'm going to phrase it a little bit
different, which is do we let the media get by with it? Is
that why what you're doing with the pro gun Democrats
(05:10):
so important? Because media just continues
at that one in a box narrative and they never talk to
individuals like us 3 definitely. On the right wing media
side, that's all you hear, is that
Democrats want to take your guns away. And
in the, I guess as Tom Hartman might say, the corporate
(05:32):
Media, they don't seem to offer the other side
either. Well, let me throw another one under that same
kind of direction because I think it goes to something
that we have that people
in general don't have, and that's a knowledge of guns, a knowledge
of weapons. You know, we hear them use certain terms,
(05:55):
certain terms that instantly put everything into a
box. For example, oftentimes they believe
any gun with a synthetic stock is an ar. They
believe and don't understand what
certain guns do mechanically. And they believe it works
completely different than what you and I know.
(06:17):
And Joe, I want to throw this one at you. How can we have
common sense gun laws until the people that write
them on the left understand how a weapon
works? One of the problems that, and just getting
back to your previous question too, is that there are a lot of
people on the left who do
(06:39):
advocate taking at least some guns away from
gun owners. If you remember back in 2020
when Beto O'Rourke was running for president, I believe he
was, he was, he actually said, hell yeah, we're going to take your
guns. That just plays right into the right wing
narrative. And you know, that that's,
(07:01):
that that gets back to, you know, why we started our site
and why we've been now trying to promote it more is to,
particularly in rural America where,
you know, I think citizens are getting misled
by the right wing media that has
done an effective job in misleading them on this issue. I couldn't
(07:23):
agree more, T.D. when it comes to
that, when it comes to being able to change the narrative
in light of everything that's going on in the world out there, when you, when
you've got a guy leaving his gun at a fence line at
a golf course, when you have another one crawling up on a roof trying
to shoot a former president of the United
(07:45):
States, you've got all of these school
shootings. I guess what I'm building to here
is do you think people are ever
going to change their minds on guns, period?
I mean, do you think that your work can get out there strong
enough to say, listen, we just want to tell you
(08:07):
what guns are and what we do with guns? Yeah,
that's a tough one. Like you said, the 24 hour media of the corporate
media, they tend to play these things on loop over and
over again, show the tragedies and the horror and the
bad things. They're not showing people going to the range
and just enjoying barbecue and going hunting and father
(08:29):
son's moments, family moments. I think that we can reach people and
I think that we have reached people in the sense that first we have to
start off by finding our commonalities and we can better
communicate our differences. Joe, I'm going to throw this
one at you because as with anything,
there is some middle ground in there that it seems to me that we as
(08:51):
gun owners should be willing to talk about and yield to.
And then there are things that kind of on the left that they should
understand a little better. In other words, this having served
in the state senate, doing a talk show, oftentimes I've pointed out
that I, you know, if I looked at anything when it comes to
control, when it comes to guns, I think there should be a three day waiting
(09:14):
period. I don't think there should be binary triggers. I don't think there should be
bump stocks. I think we should be able to limit the size of
clips. You see where I'm going with this, Joe? I mean, you
can, you can do all of those things without taking
someone's guns and yet making them work in a way that
they should work. Joel and you know, when we talk. To gun owners, we try
(09:36):
to bring things up exactly what you're talking about. One of the
things that we face though is organizations like the
NRA and others are digging their heels in
and they maybe for political reasons,
they aren't looking to compromise. And
I'm more optimistic that we can some middle ground with the
(09:58):
left that I am, that we can reach some middle ground with the right.
You know, one on one, you know, I think we have some success when we
talk with people. Our feeling is that when I talk to
somebody at a gun show site and we get into this subject, I say to
them, what can we do to keep guns out of hands of people who
should not have them? And a lot of times that sets these people
(10:21):
aback. They have not really thought that through yet. And
the more we talk about it, the more some of the things
that you brought up start making more sense to them.
But too often they're in this world where they just are
talking to people just like them. They're talking to people
on Facebook who they're not really discussing an
(10:43):
issue. They're just giving brief little sound
bite answers. You know, you can't really reach people when
you're talking in sound bites. And that's why we like talking to people
one on one, just in person. And as
Tim Waltz said at the convention, you know, we're going to move the ball down
the field one yard at a time, one inch at a time, one voter at
(11:04):
a time. And hopefully we're making some impact there. I've
had the pleasure of having Tim Walz on my show a number of times,
and the one thing that I know is the fact he knows what it's
like to put on camo and go out and get after the pheasants a little
bit, which I think all three of us, whether it's deer hunting or
pheasant hunting or duck and goose, but it doesn't
(11:27):
change the fact that the right is defining
us, that we're not engaging
in the conversation. That's why I'm so happy to hear your
group, the pro gun Democrats. And let me throw it
to you this way, T.D. so you're sitting in a room, as many of us
have, with the number of people that do exactly what we do.
(11:49):
Maybe we're shooting trap, maybe we're out hunting, whatever, and they
start this. They start this. We as Democrats want to take away your
guns. How hard is it when you're in that
room? And obviously you guys want to engage in that conversation,
so I know you do. How hard is it to get heads nodding
up and down agreeing with what you're saying? It really depends
(12:12):
on the audience. You know what? I think that going back to what. Joe had
said earlier, speaking in sound bites and you're talking to people on social media,
people are accustomed to that type of dialogue and discourse. Now,
people often just listen to respond. Don'T listen to understand.
So first you have to kind of. Make sure you have a rapport with. People
and that you're actually having a conversation, not talking at one
(12:33):
another. Once that's established, honestly, because we do have that
commonality of enjoying, you know, the outdoors, using
guns in a responsible manner. Some people will
take a hard line and just, you know, regurgitate talking points, but a lot of
times it's like, yeah, you know, a lot of this stuff does make sense. It's
a lot of fear, you know, of being guns being taken away. But if
(12:55):
I'm talking to people one on one, that we can find some common ground.
Now, does it always mean they're going to flip the script and vote a different
way? That's a little bit. Sometimes a little bit harder. Send them. Don.
I had a gentleman call into my radio show the other day
and. And his message to my audience was.
And it was interesting, the first way he said it, he said, they're
(13:16):
coming. And then there was a long pregnant pause and then he goes, they're
coming. And the point wasn't, they're coming
for my guns as somebody who owned guns. The individual
did. His point was that next generation, if
not my children but my grandchildren, are going to
say to heck with you. We're, we're not going to sit
(13:38):
here under this whole old thought that
second Amendment reads the way we want it to read. We're going to, we're going
to sit here and have some common sense gun laws or they are going to
go to a further place than what any of us should because they're
in the generation that's getting shot up in schools. And
Joe, I'm curious what you think of that, what you thought of that.
(14:00):
Caller, you know, when we talk with people and one of
the things that I bring up with them is, okay,
how do we stop all these senseless shootings?
And I think we can agree, well, I hope we can
agree, everybody, that there are people who
should not own guns, that they are a danger to
(14:21):
themselves, they're a danger to a spouse, they're a danger to
others. And
that's where, you know, we need to,
we need to, we need to challenge the right and say, listen, if we don't
come up with a solution to keep the guns, to keep guns out of the
hands of people who shouldn't have them, then that is going to
(14:43):
happen. Guns will get taken away because people are going
to reach a point where they think that's the only
solution. And so I challenge those on the right to
join us and engage in trying to
come up with some common sense solutions to the
senseless shootings that we're seeing on just a far
(15:05):
too often basis. Well, and here's
my frustration, guys. We had some of that. I mean,
we had a ban on automatic weapons, right? So
here we are down to semiautomatic weapons, and then
they find ways to get around it. They put bump stocks on it so they
shoot quicker. They put binary triggers on it. You know, the recent
(15:27):
shooting we had in the Georgia schools, I
believe I read that Governor Kemp
immediately thereafter came out and said,
now's not the time to talk about gun legislation. Well, there
never does seem to be a time to talk about it with
those folks on the far right. It can be very frustrating. All
(15:49):
I can say is we just keep plugging along, you know, one
yard at a time, one inch at a time. And let's
challenge these myths that are out there. Let's bust these myths that are out
there that too many people are believing these days. Well,
guys, I think a lot of us as Democrats that understand
exactly what you're talking about are pretty glad there's a group like
(16:11):
Pro Gun Democrats to take this on. Joe, what's your website? How do they get
in touch with you guys?
Www.theprogundemocrat.com
Guys, thank you. Keep doing what you're doing. I really appreciate
it. Thank you, Joel. Great. Thanks for having us on, Joel.
(16:35):
You know, this is a real treat for me. I've been looking forward to this.
I get to visit with Dee Davis now. Dee is the founder for the Center
for Rural Strategies and a Carsey Senior
Fellow. Now, here's the thing. We here at One country are
trying to find any possible ways to communicate that
real message to the world. Well, I'm about to talk to a
(16:57):
master of that, and that is Dee Davis. Dee, good to have
you on with us here at One Country. Thanks, Joel. I'm glad to be here.
I mean, you're built for The Hot Dish. I mean, you are, you're
just built for this conversation, man. I mean, you've spent
decades amplifying the voices of rural communities, media,
public information campaigns. I mean, this has been a passion of yours,
(17:20):
Dee. Well, I have to do something to keep out of the streets. I
think that, you know, we've had some adventures. We've got
to make some movies and tell some stories
and that's all fun. And this work is fun,
too. You know, I think that helping get rural stories out
is worth the effort. And, you know, you make new friends all the
(17:42):
time. Well, the Hot Dish is meant to bring rural
to urban and meant to tie rural together.
But I'm going to ask you the obvious question. Do we in the rural
area matter? Yeah. It's interesting because
this has been the election cycle
(18:02):
that we've been kind of hoping for him in the
last Clinton Gore won rural America.
And then there was a kind of a decision by the Democrats
to just ignore it and hope it goes
away. And so you go
from 50% or more of the
(18:24):
world votes being Democrat to just becoming
a one party Republican stronghold where nobody
has to promise anything or change
anything because only one party shows up.
So this has been interesting because with Walz on
the ticket, the narrative started to shift. There's been a
(18:47):
lot of discussion. Rural, I wouldn't say it's always informed. I mean, I don't
know how many news stories I've heard about
Harrison Walz and rural Savannah, Georgia.
You know, it could be 400,000 people there, but
it's like that's rural because it's not Atlanta. And I think that
in some ways that it's an attempt
(19:09):
to go back and
reclaim the discourse. Right. To be
part of the debate, which I think for rural communities is pretty
important. Right. I think just felt left out,
not maybe you could say ignored, but in some
way. Is this like the point that you said, do we matter? It's
(19:32):
like, are we noticed? Yeah, well, and I'll give
you an example of my life here as a
talk show host in Montana, South Dakota, North Dakota, you know,
Minnesota, big areas there, huge red area.
But if instead of losing three out of
four votes or three out of five votes, you know, you
(19:54):
lose, you know, two or three, that that's a good day. I mean
if you just gain one here or there. And so it always
leaves questions. And the question I would have for you, Dee,
is this redistricting and the Democrats are just as
guilty of this as anyone of carving out these safe
congressional districts. Has that hurt us in the rural area?
(20:16):
When you have non competitive races,
then the whole idea of
a democratic way to address your issues,
solve your problems goes away. You don't need to
have a good honest argument. You don't have
to put all the cards on the table because
(20:38):
the political solution has already been determined before
you go to the polls. So that doesn't help.
And I mean I think in this, we've done some
polling in the last year or so and I was interested
in what it found because it had found
that the Democrats supported narrative. About a third
(21:00):
in the rural battleground states that we looked at
in Montana I think was among those. But what
it showed that I wasn't expecting
was I think probably 30,
35% of the votes were gettable, they could go either
way. And then more interestingly I
(21:21):
think was what messages
people were hurting. They, they definitely were not
happy about the cost of gas or eggs.
But what I was not expecting was there was a
kind of just a rancorous anti
corporate feeling that the people were mad at the businesses,
(21:44):
the big businesses. They were ready for somebody to step
up and speak up for them. The whole
insulin price thing was an important issue.
So it wasn't so easy
to pigeonhole rural responses
in kind of Republican MAGA
(22:05):
talking points. They were, people were still interested. And if you could go
one step farther, what I would say if I
were to characterize the way that rural voters
felt was back to your point about mattering, is
that they want to be part of the solution. I mean they've
spent a lot of time feeding and fueling and
(22:27):
providing resources and providing labor for
this country to prosper. And I don't
want to be left out of the story. They don't want to be left out
of the American narrative. They feel like they've got a way to contribute
and it's not just taking care of themselves. They're like taking care of others. And
I think in some ways, when political
(22:49):
decisions are made for efficiency, well, these are where our
voters are. There are more people here. We're just going to work on delivering
these votes. That it's kind of like
understanding the cost of everything and the value of nothing. It's
kind of understanding one side
of the picture but not understanding the other. And I think
(23:11):
that politics is cultural,
it's emotional. It's not just cold,
hard policy facts. And the
reason I took you down that trail to start this
conversation was really because of what you do, which is,
you know, to tell that real story, to get out there and
(23:33):
use media, use public information. How do we
get to where we're paid attention
to? Yeah, I think first of all, it helps when the politicians show
up. I mean, that's if they show up, then you
can tell them a story. And it's not just
about sending messages. It's about being in a
(23:55):
conversation. It's about listening as much as it is
talking. And I think in some ways that
when people show up in your
neighborhood, have an honest conversation about what
the community needs, what the community hopes for, what
the communities tore up about, then
(24:17):
I think you have a kind of an honest
place to begin, a constructive relationship.
Yeah. You say when they show up, though,
and you take the state I live in that I choose to
live in, right here in North Dakota, you know, we had the
farmers union go to a fly in in D.C. and
(24:39):
this is the third or fourth year in a row they've been there as
many as, you know, 70 people at times. And
they can't get one of our United States senators to meet with him
because he just feels like he doesn't have to meet with them.
And so it's awful tough to make him come to your small town cafe when
he doesn't even come back to the state. Well, I think in some ways
(25:02):
that's part of how you had to push back on the stories.
That's how you have to tell the story so that you can't
be ignored. In this electronic
communications system that we're observing
now, it's harder and harder to get people
face to face. But get your neighbors face to
(25:24):
face, you can get your pals, you can towns can
talk to other towns. You can begin to change
a conversation. It just takes Some effort, little
plot. So if you could explain to
people how you build that story.
If you have this story that's happening in
(25:46):
this area, this rural area, and it's, you know, somebody
with the talents that you have says, this story
deserves to be told. It needs to be out there. How do
you make that happen? D. Well, I think in a way, you got
to. You gotta be an honest broker, right? You can't just
tell the stories that benefit you. You gotta be in
(26:08):
an honest conversation. And, you know, it's like
real life's not always cake and sauce. People aren't
always doing their best. But a lot of people have
hopes. A lot of people have a desire to do
good. And I think in some ways that you've got to tell a
story that people understand. You know,
(26:31):
we all feel the sun on our back. We get wet in the
rain. We fear death. We worry about
our kids. Are they going to be all right? We
look after people in our community who
are down on their luck. I think in some ways, you got to
start the story in a place that's real
(26:52):
for everybody. Not just. Not just for people in your community,
not just for rural people, but for people everywhere. You got to build those
bridges, and the stories will change
people. They'll change their outlook. If you tell a good
story, then people can respond. They can
be part of it. So I think part of it is, it's just.
(27:14):
It's just what you say down at the cafe. You just
tell a story, and people who are practiced at call
and response, people are practicing telling
the tale, getting response in. I think, in a way, you just have to
figure out how to get that story scaled up a little bit.
And, you know, and now with. With all the
(27:36):
technology, you can get that story out a little bit better
here and there. You know, there's some ways to do it, and
so it doesn't work every time, but. But, you know, you just
keep pushing. You just kind of keep trying your
best to make contact. Dee Davis is our
guest here on the Hot Dish, and we're talking about how to connect
(27:58):
with more of urban area from a rural area.
Dee, I'm sitting here looking at my
granddaughter, and she's a better
communicator, I think, than what I ever will
be. And she is because of this,
not because she brings more passion to the argument. In fact, I think she's
(28:19):
just learning how to do that. But the tools
that she uses, you know, the methods that she goes
about, it's a changing world. She has the
ability to convey a message
electronically and have it go to
places that one would have hoped to if he was going to
(28:41):
accomplish the goals that we're talking about. I don't know if you're
seeing that in your life as well. I was at a T ball
game the other day with my 5 year old
grandson and his twin sister came
and got on my lap and
said, pop, I want to go to the concession stand. I would have
(29:03):
probably bought the concession stand for her, you
know, at that point, it's like if her mother
hadn't stopped me, you know, I think in some ways it's
like we are touched
by human responses
to problems. We're touched by people who
(29:24):
feel joy. We're touched by
people who give a little extra effort
to help out. And I think in some ways those are
the tools that you use in communication. Those are the tools you use in your
community. And even when
things are looking bleak, those are the foundational ways we
(29:47):
move forward is to understand
what we have in common. Do you tell people where to find your
work? Because I'll tell you what I want to know as well. Well, the Center
for Rural Strategies is based here in
Weisburg, Kentucky, but we kind of work everywhere.
The Daily Yonder is our publication. You can go to
(30:09):
dailyyonder.com and that's, that's our newspaper.
But it's also a way to link into
our multimedia work. It's a way to
link into the Rural assembly, which is a
organization of rural organizations, as a way
to define us so well. Thank
(30:30):
you. Thank you very much. I really appreciate you taking time with us
here on the Hot Dish. I really enjoyed getting to visit you bet. Such
a pleasure.
I think it's been a spirited episode and a special episode with
these two unique guests sharing important perspectives and
(30:51):
information. Joel, I'm telling you, that is a question I get all the
time from people who live on the coast who don't have, you know, kind of
our experience with the second Amendment and how people feel about
their guns. Well, and the thing I would add to that, Heidi,
is, you know, a lot of people don't understand guns maybe the
way you and I do. You know, we grew up with them. Well, I sure
(31:14):
enjoyed hearing from them.
Let us know what you think, ask us questions, give us your
suggestions. Thank you for joining us today on the Hot Dish, which is
brought to you by One Country Project. Make sure
the voice of the rest of us are heard in Washington. Learn
more at onecountryproject.org we'll be back in two
(31:35):
weeks with more Hot Dish comfort food for middle America. Stay tuned
for a post election bonus episode. And remember, you
could email us at
podcast@onecountryproject.org.
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On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!