July 16, 2025 • 54 mins
What if laughter could heal division? And what if the key to bridging our most polarized conversations wasn’t found in politics—but in poetry, music, and a little bit of Dr. Seuss-style soul?
Laughter possesses the remarkable potential to heal divisions, a theme that resonates profoundly in our discourse with Scott Grace, also known as *The Spiritual Dr. Seuss*. This episode invites listeners to contemplate the idea that the essence of bridging our most polarized conversations may reside not in the realm of politics, but rather in the harmonious realms of poetry, music, and a touch of whimsical insight. As we engage with Scott, we delve into his latest endeavor, *Beyond Red and Blue*, which emphasizes the importance of rising above outrage and reconnecting with our shared humanity. We shall explore how spontaneous poetry can dismantle barriers of division, the detrimental effects of blame on societal change, and the imperative of cultivating compassion and curiosity in nurturing the next generation. Join us as we embark on this enlightening journey, poised to inspire profound reflections on unity in a fractured world.
Takeaways:
- The concept of laughter as a means to heal societal division is explored in depth.
- Scott Grace advocates for the use of poetry and music to bridge polarized conversations.
- Understanding and curiosity are essential to overcoming blame and fostering compassion.
- The conversation emphasizes the importance of human connection over political ideologies.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Hey, one more thing before yougo. What if laughter could heal division?
What if the key to bridgingour most polarized conversation wasn't
found in politics but inpoetry, music, and a little bit of
Dr. Seuss style? So staytuned. We're going to have a conversation
with a man that can answer allof these questions and more. I'm
your host, Michael Herst.Welcome to One more thing before
(00:21):
you go. In this episode, I'mjoined by a man who's part troubadour,
part truth teller and allheart. Scott Grace is also known
as the spiritual Dr. Seuss.He's open for comedy legends like
(00:43):
Robin Williams and DanaCarvey, shared stages with Deepak
Chopra, Lewis Hay, and nowbrings his unique blend of humor,
music and spiritual insightsto audiences around the world. And
here once again, Scott'scoming back. Scott's latest passion
project, Beyond Red and Blue,isn't about politics. It's about
(01:04):
people. It's about risingabove outrage, reconnecting with
our shared humanity andlearning how to depolarize our minds
no matter where we stand onthe spectrum. In this conversation,
we're going to explore how aspontaneous poem can disarm division,
why blame might be the biggestbarrier to change, what it means
to raise a child in ageneration with compassion and courage
(01:26):
and humanity. And howcuriosity, humor, and well timed
rhyme might just save theworld. So grab your favorite mug,
open your heart and get readyfor a conversation that will entertain
you, enlighten you, andhopefully inspire you. Welcome to
the show, Scott.
Thank you, Michael.
(01:48):
What an amazing journey we'vebeen on here before. We've had conversations.
You have this wonderful giftof music that comes out of you and
poetry. I think that you,you've been sharing with the world
for quite some time. So thankyou for being here again. I'm excited.
My pleasure.
So let's tell everybody alittle bit about yourself. Where'd
you grow up?
(02:09):
I was born and raised inBrooklyn, New York.
Brooklyn. Brooklyn. Thatsounds like a by way of Georgia.
Yeah, I'm doing a littlecreative dissonance. Like when I
go back to New York, I startspeaking like a New Yorker. But when
I go to Georgia, I startspeaking like I'm a from Georgia.
(02:37):
And minted juleps to continuethe conversation.
Michael.
Well, life, life has been.How's life been since we spoke the
last time?
It's been, you know, it, it'sbeen birth and, and resistance to
(03:00):
being impregnated by, by mynext book and my lecture series like
when spirit, I call Spiritknocked on the door and said, we
want you to start talkingabout unity and rising above polarity
and that there's somethingmore important than convincing other
(03:23):
people that your perspectiveis right. That scared me. Because
going to places where peoplehave very strong opinions about what's
right and what's wrong,they're not my favorite places to
be.
Yeah, I agree.
I've been in a perpetualargument with the universe, but this
(03:46):
book is flowing through me.Poems are coming to me. There's a
message much bigger than myresistance can handle. So I'm saying
yes to it.
I think that's a positivething. Obviously in the world is
in chaos at the moment. And Ithink we need a bit of positivity.
And. And I say the worldbecause it's all over. It's not just
(04:07):
here, it's everywhere. Andit's kind of a domino effect with
what's going on. You've beencalled the spiritual Dr. Seuss. I
spoke before. For those of youthat this is the first time you've
met Scott, he is the spiritualDr. Seuss. It's amazing. I've got
a link to his YouTube channeland everything in. In the. On the
(04:27):
webpage when we're done withthis episode. But you got to check
it out. You know, you oftenopen your talks with a poem. Would
you be willing to share oneusing Beyond Red and Blue?
Yes.
Is it too early?
So this poem, Beyond Red andBlue, is not spontaneously coming
through. It's something overthe last six months I would chip
(04:51):
away on. And maybe somedayit'll be a song. But right now, here's
what it sounds like. This talkyou'll be hearing starts out with
some rhyming. Consult Dr.Seuss for a lesson in timing. But
this is no fable for babesgetting tucked in. It's a wake up,
(05:14):
adults talk for thenightmares. We're stuck in a talk
without answers but full ofgood questions, ones to chew slowly
for mindful digestion, likewhy do most people see just red or
blue? Could there be more thanone right point of view? Are opinions
(05:40):
synonymous with what is true?Is this what our founders envisioned
we'd do now? Old Honest Abe,he was the man a house so divided
cannot long stand. He wasRepublican President Lincoln, and
(06:04):
I'd like to see more of theways he was thinking. Why are opinions
becoming more rigid? Why isthe Cold War becoming more frigid?
I've cooked up a theory. Itmay need more cooking, but it points
to the glasses through whichwe are looking. A dark pair of glasses
(06:28):
that blocks out the Light, noroom for discussion. You're wrong
and I'm right. Blood pressurerises, adrenaline spikes and I'm
left with two choices, justfight or flight. When I'm choosing
between those two Fs, itbrings out my worst traits and hides
(06:53):
all the rest. No thinkingthings through. It's time to go tribal,
to stick with my own kind andsteer clear of rivals. My rivals
are totally up to no good.They simply cannot be the least understood.
(07:16):
Now this is where I just addeda new line. Let's see if I can remember
it. I love watching Fox Newsor MSNBC because those peeps are
wearing the same glasses asme. Now these glasses make sure I
(07:40):
obscure self reflection so Ihave the high ground and moral direction.
Now it's easy to see thosedark glasses on Putin, but in my
own mirror, now that I'mdisputing, I'd rather be blind to
my mind's battlefront so I cancast blame on those liberals or Trump.
(08:09):
Could it be most of us arewearing these glasses? Letting the
media blow smoke up our asses,Using social media for amplifying
the reasons the other sideneeds. Demonizing our differences,
seemingly so polarizing we canspend half the day back and forth
(08:32):
analysis and throughalgorithms we see only our side and
think the whole Internet isour tribe. The trespassing's always
those other dumb asses andnever the fault of our own. Faulty
glasses. May this talk help ustake off those glasses and see what
(08:57):
we all have in common. Our humanity.
That's an amazing poem. Ithink that it opens up some, some
thoughts. It, it, does it makeit kind of hard to come to the idea
that one side is the problem?And if so, how do we begin to create
change? You know, we, like yousaid it, one is blaming the other,
(09:22):
the other is blaming theother. They don't seem to be working
together, they seem to bebutting heads. I'm right, you're
wrong, You're. I'm right,you're wrong.
Yeah, yeah. There's nocommunication happening because no,
nobody's curious about tryingeach other's glasses on for size.
(09:43):
You know, that's the beginningof connection, is, you know, I'm
tired of my own perspective. Iknow what I believe. I would like
to see life through your eyes.What brought you to believe what
you believe? And, and how doesit keep you warm at night? You know,
like I was on an airplane onceand there was a couple of people
(10:05):
with red hats that were acrossthe aisle, which is very symbolic.
And, and my first reaction wasto isolate myself and make sure that
I don't talk to them. And wehad four hours on the plane. So eventually
I took off my headphones and Isaw them over there talking about
(10:30):
their grandchildren looking atpictures. And I said, excuse me,
but how many grandchildren doyou have? And they, they started
crowing about theirgrandchildren. I asked them, what,
what are their, what are your.Their names and let me see pictures.
And, you know, they asked meabout my daughter and we show, I
(10:51):
showed them pictures and westarted to bond over things we have
in common. And at a certainpoint, I felt a curiosity that really
took the conversation to awhole other level. I said, do you
mind if I ask you a personalquestion? And they said, no. And
(11:12):
I said, what kind of world areyou hoping that Trump creates for
your grandchildren? And theypainted a picture of a world that
I am, you could say, fightingfor, standing for. It's like we,
(11:33):
we want the same thing, but wehave very radically different strategies
for how we think we're goingto get there, and maybe even different
worldviews. Like thefundamental assumption that I have
about life, about God, youknow, it's like that may be different
(11:55):
from, from other people whohave the opposite assumption. And
then how do we communicatewhen our world views are diametrically
opposed?
I find it interesting. No, itis. I personally, I mean, I find
it interesting. I, as youknow, I'm a retired police sergeant
(12:16):
and I worked in most of the.For the longest time and even, even
just regularly on the street,you know, and understanding and seeing
people at their worst andseeing the best people at their worst
in most circumstances, whenyou have a connection with a cop,
you're either a victim,typically you're either a victim
(12:37):
or you're, You're a criminal.One or the other, they're very rare
thing in between where it'sjust a common humanity connection
mostly. So the commonalitythat I found is what you had just
said. Communication is thekey. Most every dispute that I've
(12:58):
ever been to, whether it be abar fight, a domestic fight, any
type of situation where peoplewere at each other's throats for
whatever reason, it allstarted with miscommunication. It
all started with somebodystarting out with miscommunication,
the other person notunderstanding. So I do believe that
(13:22):
we as humanity, we as humanbeings have a responsibility to understand
that communication is the keyto success in solving our problems,
in relationships, in worldproblems. I think communication is
key. So I think I believeyou're right with regard to that.
(13:43):
Yeah, the part that can't beControlled or taught is willingness,
the desire to understand. Youcan't implant that in somebody who
is in a lot of pain. And, andI see the ping pong match of right
and wrong blame as people whoare in pain who need to be heard
(14:11):
and don't have the ears tohear because they're in so much fear
or anger or pain. And when twopeople have that collision where
they're both in a lot of pain,they both need to be heard and understood,
it's a breakdown.
Oh, big time.
And what may be happening inour country, and as you said, it's
(14:35):
a worldwide thing, it could beas inevitable, unavoidable, and as
natural as oil and waterseparating. Like there may be valid
reasons why this is happening,as painful as it is, nature is taking
(14:56):
its course in some which way.And I. Yeah, you know, sometimes
people talk about if Trump isthe enemy, you know, let's impeach
him, let's assassinate him,let's get rid of him in some way.
As if that would get rid of aproblem. It would just be a different
face, a different somebodyrepresenting a certain state of consciousness
(15:21):
that half the country feels isvalid and has their reasons. And
until we get curious enough toreach across the aisle and ask what
are those reasons and how doyou see the world? And you know,
I care about you, not who youvoted for. And that's what the book
(15:43):
and the message is about, howto return to our humanity. Because
there was a time when I agreewith that.
I think that we all have theopportunity, even within that situation,
to work across the aisle.Unfortunately, I think it has become
so convoluted, and obviouslythis isn't a political discussion,
this is just an opinion. Ithas become so convoluted with misinformation
(16:10):
that it's difficult to come toa conclusion that it can be solved
through communication. So Ithink that, in my opinion, at least,
I think that we all need tohave a voice. We all need to be heard,
but we all need to be heard inthe right context and to make sure
(16:30):
that the context that's givenor presented is done so with a solution
in mind at the end with regardto the problem, not just this is
what I'm saying and I don'tcare what you're saying kind of a
situation.
I think, yeah, there's a groupthat facilitates these kinds of constructive
(16:53):
healing across the aisleconversations. It's called Braver
Angels, and they actuallytrain people on how to be what they
call depolarizers in aconversation. So I, I'm very pleased
to have connected with them,to see the structure behind what
they're doing. Veryprofessional and very needed.
(17:19):
So Red, White and Blue is. OrI call it Red, White and blue. Sorry,
your book, Red and Blue. Yeah.You've said it isn't a political
book or lecture. What to me,tell me, what is it? Is a healing
like a mirror? Is it a musicalintervention? Help me define the
(17:41):
work.
I would say it's like JimmyStewart explaining politics in a
very simple way of. It's justpeople. It's just us here. And leaders
(18:06):
are not demons or angels andsaviors. They're actually very often
bogged down by corporateinterests and they're not going to
lead the way. We need to takeour power back. And it happens one
heart, one mind at a time. Thedehumanizing takes. Takes its toll.
(18:30):
And then somebody says, I'mtired. I am so tired of the separation
between people that I'mwilling to soften my opinions enough
to put connection beforecorrection, to put humanity back
(18:51):
on a path of sanity fromdehumanizing to depolarizing. So
the book is a collection ofanecdotal stories, true stories of
my adventures with reachingacross the aisle. I've been taking
Republicans out to dinner.
(19:11):
That sounds like a heck of apilot for a TV series.
It could be. That would be fun.
Oh, yeah, it would be. Sorry.The producer in my head just yelled
at me.
Yeah.
What is that comedy show with.Is it Jerry Seinfeld that does the
(19:35):
coffee with a comedian?
He does. Yeah. It never tookoff the way like the. That driving
the carpool karaoke. I thinkhe was trying to. Trying to find
a comic version of carpoolkaraoke. I've seen a few of them.
They were kind of cool.They're kind of cool. That may work.
(19:55):
That may work. Or. It soundslike another book, at least Another
book.
Yeah.
I know that we just talkedabout how that we don't want to kind
of inspired you to. To createthis piece of art. I would call it
a piece of art, if you don'tmind, because I believe it incorporates
again, written word. It'spoems, it's music, it's connecting.
(20:20):
Who do you want to speak to? Imean, is this truly for everyone
or in this day and age, as youmentioned earlier in this conversation,
that typically people arepolarized to a point where you're
either left or you're rightsomewhere possibly in the middle
or. And then of course, ElonMusk says he's going to start a whole
(20:42):
new political side to come In.We don't know what that's going to
entail. But who, who are you,who are you trying to reach?
I'm just putting, putting itout there and I'm, I'm very curious
if, if it can reach people whoare, you know, like college students
(21:08):
or working at Apple or Google.You know, they have meditation rooms
and, and so I would say thecorporate world, but more the, the
Google, Apple people, collegecampuses, kids just forming their
opinions and we'll see. Youknow, it. There's a Unitarian church
(21:34):
that has me speaking soon and,and churches are pretty safe for
me. I've been doing churches,synagogues, those places. Everybody
agrees with me and it's, it'smy womb. What I'm really, really
excited about and scared isgetting out of my comfort zone and
(21:56):
communicating with people whomay feel threatened by what I have
to say.
So the, I think you're on youraudience, at least I would hope that
your audience is open to theopportunity to understand that what
you're sharing with everyoneis the opportunity for us to be able
(22:18):
to have a conversation, acivil conversation. Not a, not a
I'm, I'm right, you're wrongtype conversation, but a civil conversation
to come to a solution to helpus as a whole. Because whatever happens
here, you know, in, in theUnited States, whatever happens here,
it has an effect worldwide.And I think that it, it's far reaching,
(22:45):
in my opinion. Yeah. And Ihave to, I had to bring. Do you mind
if I ask you a question aboutyour daughter?
No, I don't mind.
You don't mind? I said no. No,don't do that. Go away. I, I'm sorry,
I didn't realize you had adaughter even from the last time
we had the conversation. So weshare that in common because I have
(23:08):
two daughters and obviouslythis day and age priorities are our
kids. Right. Is your daughterhelping you stand up for what you
believe in?
Well, she is, she's like ateacher because when she was, when
she was five years old, shedecided that napkins, she learned
(23:29):
napkins come from cutting downtrees, so she refused to use napkins
anymore. So there was likethis. She was born with a sense of
direction and integrity. Atage 10 she became vegan, which makes
dinner very interesting at herhouse. Now her, her mom eats meat,
(23:54):
her stepdad is a vegetarianand she's a vegan vegetarian. So
they all get along and figureit all out. So she, yeah, she, she's
been my teacher and she'sbrought out the best in me and the,
and the worst in me, the mostunconscious I've ever been, you know,
(24:17):
but even with that there,there, The. The. The time where I
almost wounded her the most, Iactually stopped myself. She was.
We were playing on the bed.She was like three years old, and.
And she slapped me reallyhard, and it was just very quickly,
like a reflex. I went to slapher back, and it was like time stopped
(24:42):
because I was able to, like,look at my hand and in this moment
and say, what are you about todo? And my hand says, teacher, a
lesson in non violence.
That's almost. Almost.
And that was enough. You know,my hand went down and. And I, I got.
(25:07):
In an instant what. Whatcraziness that would be.
And so it, It. It said, lifecan change in an instant from a different
perspective.
Yeah. And so I. What I did, Isaid, ouch, Asia, that hurt. Please
don't do that again. Not to meor anyone. And that was.
(25:29):
That seemed to work as aninteresting ideology with. With all
three of those individuals inthe same households being a meat
eater, a vegan, and avegetarian. Yeah, that would make.
I mean, I'm primarily vegan.It helps with my arthritis. It helps
(25:50):
me to manage my health in thatregard. And my wife pretty much has
come around to that. She'smore vegetarian slash vegan because
she'll eat cheese and thingslike that. Cheese and eggs and so
forth. But. And now ourdaughter just moved back with us.
Our youngest daughter movedback home with us. So she's a meat
(26:11):
eater. So I understand that dynamic.
You know, actually let me jumpin with that, because part of. I
think part of the. One of thethemes in the book is learning to
not be threatened bydiversity, but actually entertained.
(26:34):
You know, like, oh, anopportunity to learn or to see life
through somebody's eyes or tomove through some discomfort that
I'm feeling or something likethat. And I'll take it a step further
with. With my daughter'sfamily. She. She's more of like a.
An agnostic. Her mom is morelike a Christian mystical, and her
(27:00):
stepdad is a rabbi. He goesinto prisons Monday through Friday.
He goes into San Quentin andgets paid to, you know, pray and
counsel the. The prisoners.And so one of the things that my.
We're all learning and mydaughter is. Is having modeled. Is
(27:25):
it. It doesn't matter so muchwhat your religion or not. No religion
or this religion or thatreligion. It's kind of. To me, it's
as important as what. Whatclothes you wear. You know, what.
What did I put on thismorning? It's. It's not me. My beliefs
don't define me. So this is,this is in the book, the, the. The
(27:51):
audio audible version of thebook. I'll sing this. When I first
moved out of Brooklyn, NewYork, the first place I lived when
I was on my own was inGreenwich Village. And so I went
from a. From a white suburbanneighborhood of white privilege,
you could say nowadays. And Ientered a realm where individuality
(28:17):
was. Was God. You know, likeexpressing yourself in unique ways
was just so. So. And, and sowhat. I felt really uncomfortable
there for a while and. And Ilearned about prejudice because I
started to prejudge people wholooked weird or different or in some
(28:40):
way threatened my sense ofself. So I was learning that prejudice
is just fear prejudging to tryto create safety by putting people
in boxes and categories, thosepeople. So I wrote a song to help
me get over my prejudicecalled the Rainbow Song. And I'll
(29:04):
just sing a part of it foryou. One day I took me a walk in
Greenwich Village, New York to catch.
Up on the latest crazy. Ifound a brand new reference for sexual
preference listed in theyellow pages. I stumbled upon a crowded
(29:25):
hair salon. The line wentaround the block. There was a special
that day and purple body waveswith a little green on the top. Yes,
we became come in a rainbow.Yes, we are seeing the light. Would
(29:48):
you rather see through a colortv? Throw away your black and white?
Yes, we becoming a rain. Oh,yes, we are seeing the light. It's
so hard to stay with you ownkind these days when no two people
(30:09):
look alike. Well, there's newraces, new faces, new colors, new
creeds. We're swimming indiversity. You can keep company with
the folks you agree with orsample the variety. I got a born
(30:30):
again friend who dabbles inZen. She's Christian in a mystical
way. If you don't like yourreligion, get a second opinion. Why
stick to only one faith thesedays? Yes, we're becoming rainbow.
(30:50):
Yes, we are seeing the light.Would you rather see through a colored
tv and throw away your blackand white? Yes, we're becoming a
rainbow. Yes, we are seeingthe lights. It's so hard to stay
(31:13):
with your own kind these dayswhen no two people look alike. When
no two people think alike. Notwo people people are alive.
Well, thank you. Thank youvery much. You'll be here through
next Thursday.
(31:34):
Think you sound. You soundlike Elvis just then.
Thank you. Thank you verymuch. That's a wonderful song. What
an opportunity for us toreally embrace that message within
that song. Yeah, and that'spart of the audible version of your
book.
Thank you. It occurred to methat many listeners, anyone, any
(31:58):
millennium, probably doesn'tknow what the yellow pages refers
to.
So true.
And you know, they may see itas a form of yellow journalism, I
don't know. But then the otherthing is black and white televisions,
I think you may remember them.I think absolutely. I remember them
at a black and whitetelevision. I remember how exciting
(32:19):
it was to bring home a color tv.
Yep. Remember that. And I wasalso remember being the antenna mover
and the channel changer before.
Now that, that can bring uppeople's control issues, remote control
issues, and.
(32:40):
And three channels you hadabc, NBC, cbs. That was it.
That was it. And they were allnon profit, right?
Correct, Yep. Go. And it was.My dad was a journalist and I remember
him coming home and he'd beworking on something and we'd sit
down and watch something andhe wanted to change your channel.
And he'd say, michael, gochange the channel. And that was
(33:04):
the remote, me changing thechannel. Then I had to readjust the
rabbit ears to make sure thatthe channel came in. So that's way
back. You made me. You made meregress just a wee bit.
Well, the hypnotherapy worked then.
It did 100%. Although I dohave to make a quick reference when
(33:24):
we were talking about JimmyStewart out there. So for those of
you that don't know JimmyStewart, if you are a connoisseur
of old movies, or if youreally want to get the. The Hollywood
icon idol, he's one of theoriginals, so you should look him
up on tcm, look up some of hisold movies and you'll absolutely
(33:45):
love Jimmy Stewart.
It's a Wonderful Life.
Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely.Scott, without naming any ideologies
or parties, can you describeprinciples in your ideal society?
What would you, what would youconsider an ideal society? Right
now? What we see is a chaos.
(34:10):
I know, I know. Well, youknow, first of all, chaos is very
often a precursor to changein. Positive changes can happen,
you know, like if you wereclothed in a washing machine and
you were tumbling all aroundand you didn't know the context of
(34:32):
the tumble, it would seem likechaos. You'd be like, hey, we're
all in chaos. But there is apurpose to that chaos. And for me
it's a matter of faith, youknow, I believe that the tendency
to evolve is where we goeventually, and we may have to take
(35:00):
a longer time to get therethan I would like. But I think one
of the things that both peopleon both sides can agree with not
everyone, but is, you gottaget the money out of politics. And
the status quo is not helpfulanymore. And there are people who
(35:26):
really dislike Donald Trump asa human being, but they voted for
him because they, they seethat he's going to disrupt things.
For whatever his reasons are,he is a disruptor. And people perceive
that any change right now isbetter than the status quo. And I
(35:49):
think the status quo has beencreated over a series of many years.
Eisenhower warned us not toallow the military industrial complex
to start making money off ofweapons. He also said one day the
(36:12):
people of the world are goingto want peace so much that the governments
of the world are going to haveto let them. Have to step aside and
let them have it.
Let's hope so. I love it.Perspective. I think that, you know,
I agree with you. Take themoney out of politics, because money
out of politics. Money andpolitics don't mix. You can buy a
(36:35):
vote. You can buy, you can buya, you could buy your way in. Basically.
I think that that is, it makesus as voters irrelevant to a particular
point because whatever we, weas the people want as a whole doesn't
always get answered when moneysteps in. And money can sway their
(36:56):
perception of what is good forthe people and what isn't good for
the people. Compared to that.
Yeah, the, the military, oncewe started making profit on war,
once war became a profit, nota nonprofit. But, you know, I think
some of the decisions weremade by the military. So, you know,
(37:20):
I'm, I'm a capitalist. I justdon't, I think where we've gone to
is capitalism on steroids.
Yeah, I mean, I, I look, weall look. I would be very comfortable
making a couple hundredthousand dollars a year. And I'm
all for. I've got my ownbusiness. This is my own business,
my personal business. So I'm asmall business owner. So we understand
(37:41):
from even that perspective. Irespect capitalism in that regard
as well. What I would. Andthis is again, just my opinion, I
think that once you startgetting multimillionaires and billionaires
involved in politics andpaying that money in there to get
what they want in the agendathey want put into place, including
(38:04):
war. War is business, as yousaid earlier. War is business. That
it skewed everything to apoint where sometimes what's good
for the people isn'tnecessarily a goal anymore. The goal
is what can I sell, how muchcan I sell? And you know, how can
(38:26):
we profit from it? Even, evenwe've had politicians Here that went
into office, both Republicanand Democrat went into office as
a middle class individual orlower middle class, middle class
and maybe a little uppermiddle class and walked out of Congress
(38:48):
millionaire. And in my opinionthat's, you know, back in the way,
in the very beginning myfamily, the trig side of the family
helped build the. They werehere through the Civil War completely.
My ancestors on my father'sside, Civil War through have all
(39:10):
been here. The trig sidecontributed to the formation of government.
What it looks like today. Theywere members of Congress way back
when. They didn't get paid.Back in the beginning working for
Congress didn't get paid. Sonow I think it's skewed it to a point
(39:30):
where it's just not. I thinkit just needs to stay out. Earlier
you mentioned something aboutcuriosity as a kind of a superpower.
Can you help me understand? Imean I think being a parent, I understand
that, but we as adults, cancuriosity still be a superpower?
(39:52):
Yeah, there's definitely powerand curiosity.
It.
Why wouldn't we be curious?Curiosity is, is a trait in, in animals,
in children. Like what, whatwould drive us to not be curious?
(40:14):
I, I would say generallyspeaking, fear. And, and, and we're
educated, live in fear and,and in fear I need my walls of protection
and, and other people couldhurt me. So I am not going to be
curious about them becausethat might open me to the possibility
(40:37):
of being hurt or threatened insome way. So curiosity is the absence
of fear. It's the absence ofthreat. And it's natural and it could
be that, that you have topractice it and fake it for a while
to get it going. So that's whylike I started to ask questions of
(40:57):
the other side and I came upwith a bunch of curiosity questions
to ask as I interview peoplewho have voted differently than me.
And it's healing, it's healingfor both of us. They feel, you know,
listened to and respected andthat curiosity brings safety and,
(41:19):
and connection and, and humanto human communication.
Well, I think that cultivatesand that cultivates communication
in a world that kind ofrewards certainty and, and outrage
at the same time because itallows us the ability to open a conversation
(41:39):
and to at least get a dialoguegoing, as you said, with the people
that were on the airplane.Right. But they were across the aisle,
they both were wearing the redhat and conversation with them. So
I think curiosity, thatapproach, it can cultivate across
the world, not just here.
(42:01):
Yeah, yeah. And being curiousabout somebody doesn't necessarily
mean that you are Giving upyour beliefs or changing your opinions
has nothing to do with that.
Again, I think it opens aconversation. From my perspective,
I think it opens aconversation and communication, as
(42:22):
we said earlier, is kind of akey to. I mean, we have to understand
other people from theirperspective as. What is that old
cliche, Walk a mile in myshoes? You know, it's not really
cliche. It's. It's a fact.Walk a mile in my shoes, see what
I've experienced, what I'mlooking for, why I'm here. You know,
(42:43):
just assume. Don't justautomatically jump to conclusions.
And, you know, I think itworks. In your opinion, when we.
If we strip away the labels,the politics and the fear, what do
you see as a common thread forhuman behavior from a philosophical
perspective? Since. I mean,your Dr. Seuss is kind of philosophical.
(43:08):
Yeah. You know, so I'll answeras the spiritual Dr. Seuss. So. So
if you. If you strip away allthat's not real, the only thing left
that is a big deal is thislove that just wants to be revealed.
(43:28):
We want to be kind to eachother. We want to discover that another
is just a mirror of a part ofme that maybe I've denied. And maybe
I don't want to hide fromwhat's inside. And I want humanity
to bring up the best and theworst in me. So I'm coming out of
(43:50):
my hiding place. I'm comingout of my meditation cave. I'm waking
up from the dream that I needto be safe, that I need to be secure,
that I need to be sure ofwhat's going on before being curious.
Curiosity is being strong. Andwe do belong together. As messy as
(44:12):
it can be, this experimentcalled humanity is bringing us from
division to. To unity, oneheart at a time.
That's poignant, veryprofound. I think that it brings
(44:33):
us to maybe this question.Each generation seems to be believed.
The world is ending from youngall the way to old. Why does ours
feel so intense? What can welearn from that? How do we move collectively
through that, those thoughtsand those patterns and that belief?
(44:56):
I wonder if it was intense formy grandparents with World War I.
If I was. If I could slip intotheir time frame, maybe they were
experiencing the level ofcrisis that it seems like we're experiencing.
I know with my parents, withWorld War II, it. You know, they
were Jewish and it was like,Hitler wants to not just take over
the world, but he wants toeliminate genocide. Yeah. So. So
(45:21):
that was pretty. Pretty scary,I'm sure. Major intensity. I grew
up having nuclear Nightmaresand literally just frozen in terror.
Because I learned in schoolthat a nuclear bomb would vaporize
(45:42):
you pretty much. And that. Butthen we would have these shelter
drills in which we would like,get out into the halls and just assume
a certain position. And itjust seemed very weird that we would
assume a certain position sothat we would get vaporized. So there
(46:02):
was something somebody wasn'ttelling me, and it was bringing up
a lot of fear of the end ofthe world. It was a theme of mine.
And now my daughter has. Hasthe radical politics and climate
change. So she's growing upin. In. She's 16 now, and she's aware
of climate change being a. Abig issue. You know, she may not
(46:25):
choose to have children, Idon't know. But that's what's facing
that generation. So the pointis, is that every generation has
its. Some challenge. And maybeours isn't as special and as urgent
as we think it is. Maybe in.It's just that I kind of see like
(46:49):
our assignment. It's. It's ourcurriculum to work with it this time
around.
Yeah. I think that wehopefully have taken lessons from
history and lessons from whatwe've grow up, grown up with, and
with everything between WorldWar II, I mean, theoretically from
these generations, World WarII, and then Vietnam, Korea, Iraq,
(47:10):
Afghanistan, the Gulf War, allof those. It seems to me we should
have taken some lessons fromthat in order to have a better understanding
of what we as humanity shouldbe doing to help nurture us. Because
we are all connected. Itdoesn't matter what race you are,
creed you are, color you are,gender you are. It doesn't matter.
(47:32):
We are all connected. And Ithink that we as humanity need to
have a perspective of are wegoing to survive or are we not going
to survive?
You betcha. Now I know we'regoing to end pretty soon. The New
York Times, I think it'sJanuary 1st or December 31st. They
(47:52):
always come out with anarticle about the good things that
happened that year. And onething they say is that war globally
is decreasing every year, thatthere's poverty globally is getting
better every year. So to me,that's big news. Why aren't we being
(48:17):
told that every day?
Yeah, exactly. I think it'sthe media's responsibility to bring
that forward, to at leastprovide us some positive news instead
of constant, the barrage of negativity.
All right, but it's not justthe media. It's the people, because
the media are just feeding thepeople what they want. And what many
(48:40):
people want is adrenaline.They want to be scared. They, they
want to, they want to beengaged and they want the conflict.
McDonald's in Europe. Yearsago, I went to a Burger King or something
in Europe and they hadrecycling and they had vegetarian
(49:00):
options years before they cameto America. And why? Because the
people demanded it. And so if,if, if Burger King in Europe wants
to make a profit, that's howthey going to do it. So we, we have
to, you know, the collective.We need to demand good news and want
it.
(49:21):
I agree with that. That,that's a, that's an amazing and profound
statement within itself. Ithink they need to open their eyes
and listen to us, the people.We. The people. We. The people. Scott,
it. We could talk for anotherhour. I know we could, but under
orders.
Exactly. Doctor's orders.
(49:41):
But yeah, it's been awonderful opportunity to reconnect
with you again. And I thinkthat this new project that you're
working on is going to. Ithink it take off on such a point
that it will hopefullyinspire, motivate and educate some
people. So I appreciate youdoing that. Can you tell us how they
can find it and everythingelse that you do? Because you, you're
(50:02):
a coach, you're a guidance anda mentor for both men and women.
It's, yeah, it, it's. It's assimple as going to scottsongs.com
and to subscribe. So that. AndI don't send many emails, I forget,
but I do. I will let peopleknow when the new book is out. So
(50:23):
that's how to stay connected. Subscribe.
In the meantime, you also havefour other books out that are available
and those are on the screen ifyou want to look at them. And they'll
be available also with a linkin the show notes so that they can
find those as well.
Yeah, yeah. The last, the lasttime I was on your show was to promote
mindful masculinity. And yousee there's a copy of it over there.
(50:49):
There's. That's, that's the AIfantasy version of me. If I, If I
went to the gym.
AI version. Thank you. Ithought that was Scott. No, it's
Scott. It could be Michaeltoo. It could be just. It could really,
could be Scott. Again, thankyou. I really appreciate what you
(51:11):
bring to the world and yoursong, your music. Music is the, the
international language, isn'tit? Yeah. I appreciate you bringing.
It starts movements. It. Itlike it changes the world. Somebody
said that, that the Beatlesdid more to end communism in Russia
(51:33):
than any politician becausethe best way to make Something popular
is to make it illegal. So thegovernment made listening to the
Beatles illegal. And then allthe records were passed around in
black market. Just thegovernment could control the people
anymore. And the people justsaid, we want freedom. And they got
(51:53):
it, we got it. We got to dothe same thing in this country. Freedom
from what divides us. Andlet's start talking about what unites
us, because that's been sincethe beginning of history, that has
been the strategy of people inpower is divide and conquer. First
(52:15):
you have to divide, then youcan control people. That's why the
curiosity reaching across theaisle is so radical. So it's. It's
important.
It's important. This ispicking up importance. This is one
more thing before you go. Youmay have just said it, but I'm going
to ask you, do you have anywords of wisdom?
(52:36):
Words of wisdom?
You can do it in song. You cando it in voice. You can.
You can do it in voice. I cando it in rhyme. I can do it in choice.
But I think we just shared themost important part, which is don't
let them, whoever them is, andI don't really care. Don't let them
(52:58):
think for you and make youangry and upset at fellow human beings
for having different points ofview. That's how they conquer. They
divide. So what we have incommon is far more important, and
that's where the conversationneeds to be.
(53:19):
Those are profound andbrilliant words of wisdom. Scott,
again, thank you very much.I'm so happy we reconnected. When
the book comes out, please letme know. Make sure that gets in the
show notes as well. And let'stalk again.
Of course.
Absolutely.
You and I will be different people.
So. And for one more thingbefore you all go, thank you very
(53:41):
much for being a part of Onemore thing before you go, Community.
I appreciate each and everyone of you. Please, please, like
subscribe and follow. Andagain, I'll have everything and how
to get ahold of Scott in theshow notes and the webpage@v4eaglepodcast.com
have a great day, have a greatweek and thank you for being here.
Thanks for listening to thisepisode of.
(54:02):
One More Thing before you go.Check out our website@beforeyougopodcast.com
youm can find us as well assubscribe to the program and rate
us on your favorite podcastlistening platform.
Hey, one more thing before yougo. What if laughter could heal division?
What if the key to bridgingour most polarized conversation wasn't
found in politics but inpoetry, music, and a little bit of
Dr. Seuss style? So staytuned. We're going to have a conversation
with a man that can answer allof these questions and more. I'm
your host, Michael Herst.Welcome to One more thing before
(00:21):
you go. In this episode, I'mjoined by a man who's part troubadour,
part truth teller and allheart. Scott Grace is also known
as the spiritual Dr. Seuss.He's open for comedy legends like
(00:43):
Robin Williams and DanaCarvey, shared stages with Deepak
Chopra, Lewis Hay, and nowbrings his unique blend of humor,
music and spiritual insightsto audiences around the world. And
here once again, Scott'scoming back. Scott's latest passion
project, Beyond Red and Blue,isn't about politics. It's about
(01:04):
people. It's about risingabove outrage, reconnecting with
our shared humanity andlearning how to depolarize our minds
no matter where we stand onthe spectrum. In this conversation,
we're going to explore how aspontaneous poem can disarm division,
why blame might be the biggestbarrier to change, what it means
to raise a child in ageneration with compassion and courage
(01:26):
and humanity. And howcuriosity, humor, and well timed
rhyme might just save theworld. So grab your favorite mug,
open your heart and get readyfor a conversation that will entertain
you, enlighten you, andhopefully inspire you. Welcome to
the show, Scott.
Thank you, Michael.
(01:48):
What an amazing journey we'vebeen on here before. We've had conversations.
You have this wonderful giftof music that comes out of you and
poetry. I think that you,you've been sharing with the world
for quite some time. So thankyou for being here again. I'm excited.
My pleasure.
So let's tell everybody alittle bit about yourself. Where'd
you grow up?
(02:09):
I was born and raised inBrooklyn, New York.
Brooklyn. Brooklyn. Thatsounds like a by way of Georgia.
Yeah, I'm doing a littlecreative dissonance. Like when I
go back to New York, I startspeaking like a New Yorker. But when
I go to Georgia, I startspeaking like I'm a from Georgia.
(02:37):
And minted juleps to continuethe conversation.
Michael.
Well, life, life has been.How's life been since we spoke the
last time?
It's been, you know, it, it'sbeen birth and, and resistance to
(03:00):
being impregnated by, by mynext book and my lecture series like
when spirit, I call Spiritknocked on the door and said, we
want you to start talkingabout unity and rising above polarity
and that there's somethingmore important than convincing other
(03:23):
people that your perspectiveis right. That scared me. Because
going to places where peoplehave very strong opinions about what's
right and what's wrong,they're not my favorite places to
be.
Yeah, I agree.
I've been in a perpetualargument with the universe, but this
(03:46):
book is flowing through me.Poems are coming to me. There's a
message much bigger than myresistance can handle. So I'm saying
yes to it.
I think that's a positivething. Obviously in the world is
in chaos at the moment. And Ithink we need a bit of positivity.
And. And I say the worldbecause it's all over. It's not just
(04:07):
here, it's everywhere. Andit's kind of a domino effect with
what's going on. You've beencalled the spiritual Dr. Seuss. I
spoke before. For those of youthat this is the first time you've
met Scott, he is the spiritualDr. Seuss. It's amazing. I've got
a link to his YouTube channeland everything in. In the. On the
(04:27):
webpage when we're done withthis episode. But you got to check
it out. You know, you oftenopen your talks with a poem. Would
you be willing to share oneusing Beyond Red and Blue?
Yes.
Is it too early?
So this poem, Beyond Red andBlue, is not spontaneously coming
through. It's something overthe last six months I would chip
(04:51):
away on. And maybe somedayit'll be a song. But right now, here's
what it sounds like. This talkyou'll be hearing starts out with
some rhyming. Consult Dr.Seuss for a lesson in timing. But
this is no fable for babesgetting tucked in. It's a wake up,
(05:14):
adults talk for thenightmares. We're stuck in a talk
without answers but full ofgood questions, ones to chew slowly
for mindful digestion, likewhy do most people see just red or
blue? Could there be more thanone right point of view? Are opinions
(05:40):
synonymous with what is true?Is this what our founders envisioned
we'd do now? Old Honest Abe,he was the man a house so divided
cannot long stand. He wasRepublican President Lincoln, and
(06:04):
I'd like to see more of theways he was thinking. Why are opinions
becoming more rigid? Why isthe Cold War becoming more frigid?
I've cooked up a theory. Itmay need more cooking, but it points
to the glasses through whichwe are looking. A dark pair of glasses
(06:28):
that blocks out the Light, noroom for discussion. You're wrong
and I'm right. Blood pressurerises, adrenaline spikes and I'm
left with two choices, justfight or flight. When I'm choosing
between those two Fs, itbrings out my worst traits and hides
(06:53):
all the rest. No thinkingthings through. It's time to go tribal,
to stick with my own kind andsteer clear of rivals. My rivals
are totally up to no good.They simply cannot be the least understood.
(07:16):
Now this is where I just addeda new line. Let's see if I can remember
it. I love watching Fox Newsor MSNBC because those peeps are
wearing the same glasses asme. Now these glasses make sure I
(07:40):
obscure self reflection so Ihave the high ground and moral direction.
Now it's easy to see thosedark glasses on Putin, but in my
own mirror, now that I'mdisputing, I'd rather be blind to
my mind's battlefront so I cancast blame on those liberals or Trump.
(08:09):
Could it be most of us arewearing these glasses? Letting the
media blow smoke up our asses,Using social media for amplifying
the reasons the other sideneeds. Demonizing our differences,
seemingly so polarizing we canspend half the day back and forth
(08:32):
analysis and throughalgorithms we see only our side and
think the whole Internet isour tribe. The trespassing's always
those other dumb asses andnever the fault of our own. Faulty
glasses. May this talk help ustake off those glasses and see what
(08:57):
we all have in common. Our humanity.
That's an amazing poem. Ithink that it opens up some, some
thoughts. It, it, does it makeit kind of hard to come to the idea
that one side is the problem?And if so, how do we begin to create
change? You know, we, like yousaid it, one is blaming the other,
(09:22):
the other is blaming theother. They don't seem to be working
together, they seem to bebutting heads. I'm right, you're
wrong, You're. I'm right,you're wrong.
Yeah, yeah. There's nocommunication happening because no,
nobody's curious about tryingeach other's glasses on for size.
(09:43):
You know, that's the beginningof connection, is, you know, I'm
tired of my own perspective. Iknow what I believe. I would like
to see life through your eyes.What brought you to believe what
you believe? And, and how doesit keep you warm at night? You know,
like I was on an airplane onceand there was a couple of people
(10:05):
with red hats that were acrossthe aisle, which is very symbolic.
And, and my first reaction wasto isolate myself and make sure that
I don't talk to them. And wehad four hours on the plane. So eventually
I took off my headphones and Isaw them over there talking about
(10:30):
their grandchildren looking atpictures. And I said, excuse me,
but how many grandchildren doyou have? And they, they started
crowing about theirgrandchildren. I asked them, what,
what are their, what are your.Their names and let me see pictures.
And, you know, they asked meabout my daughter and we show, I
(10:51):
showed them pictures and westarted to bond over things we have
in common. And at a certainpoint, I felt a curiosity that really
took the conversation to awhole other level. I said, do you
mind if I ask you a personalquestion? And they said, no. And
(11:12):
I said, what kind of world areyou hoping that Trump creates for
your grandchildren? And theypainted a picture of a world that
I am, you could say, fightingfor, standing for. It's like we,
(11:33):
we want the same thing, but wehave very radically different strategies
for how we think we're goingto get there, and maybe even different
worldviews. Like thefundamental assumption that I have
about life, about God, youknow, it's like that may be different
(11:55):
from, from other people whohave the opposite assumption. And
then how do we communicatewhen our world views are diametrically
opposed?
I find it interesting. No, itis. I personally, I mean, I find
it interesting. I, as youknow, I'm a retired police sergeant
(12:16):
and I worked in most of the.For the longest time and even, even
just regularly on the street,you know, and understanding and seeing
people at their worst andseeing the best people at their worst
in most circumstances, whenyou have a connection with a cop,
you're either a victim,typically you're either a victim
(12:37):
or you're, You're a criminal.One or the other, they're very rare
thing in between where it'sjust a common humanity connection
mostly. So the commonalitythat I found is what you had just
said. Communication is thekey. Most every dispute that I've
(12:58):
ever been to, whether it be abar fight, a domestic fight, any
type of situation where peoplewere at each other's throats for
whatever reason, it allstarted with miscommunication. It
all started with somebodystarting out with miscommunication,
the other person notunderstanding. So I do believe that
(13:22):
we as humanity, we as humanbeings have a responsibility to understand
that communication is the keyto success in solving our problems,
in relationships, in worldproblems. I think communication is
key. So I think I believeyou're right with regard to that.
(13:43):
Yeah, the part that can't beControlled or taught is willingness,
the desire to understand. Youcan't implant that in somebody who
is in a lot of pain. And, andI see the ping pong match of right
and wrong blame as people whoare in pain who need to be heard
(14:11):
and don't have the ears tohear because they're in so much fear
or anger or pain. And when twopeople have that collision where
they're both in a lot of pain,they both need to be heard and understood,
it's a breakdown.
Oh, big time.
And what may be happening inour country, and as you said, it's
(14:35):
a worldwide thing, it could beas inevitable, unavoidable, and as
natural as oil and waterseparating. Like there may be valid
reasons why this is happening,as painful as it is, nature is taking
(14:56):
its course in some which way.And I. Yeah, you know, sometimes
people talk about if Trump isthe enemy, you know, let's impeach
him, let's assassinate him,let's get rid of him in some way.
As if that would get rid of aproblem. It would just be a different
face, a different somebodyrepresenting a certain state of consciousness
(15:21):
that half the country feels isvalid and has their reasons. And
until we get curious enough toreach across the aisle and ask what
are those reasons and how doyou see the world? And you know,
I care about you, not who youvoted for. And that's what the book
(15:43):
and the message is about, howto return to our humanity. Because
there was a time when I agreewith that.
I think that we all have theopportunity, even within that situation,
to work across the aisle.Unfortunately, I think it has become
so convoluted, and obviouslythis isn't a political discussion,
this is just an opinion. Ithas become so convoluted with misinformation
(16:10):
that it's difficult to come toa conclusion that it can be solved
through communication. So Ithink that, in my opinion, at least,
I think that we all need tohave a voice. We all need to be heard,
but we all need to be heard inthe right context and to make sure
(16:30):
that the context that's givenor presented is done so with a solution
in mind at the end with regardto the problem, not just this is
what I'm saying and I don'tcare what you're saying kind of a
situation.
I think, yeah, there's a groupthat facilitates these kinds of constructive
(16:53):
healing across the aisleconversations. It's called Braver
Angels, and they actuallytrain people on how to be what they
call depolarizers in aconversation. So I, I'm very pleased
to have connected with them,to see the structure behind what
they're doing. Veryprofessional and very needed.
(17:19):
So Red, White and Blue is. OrI call it Red, White and blue. Sorry,
your book, Red and Blue. Yeah.You've said it isn't a political
book or lecture. What to me,tell me, what is it? Is a healing
like a mirror? Is it a musicalintervention? Help me define the
(17:41):
work.
I would say it's like JimmyStewart explaining politics in a
very simple way of. It's justpeople. It's just us here. And leaders
(18:06):
are not demons or angels andsaviors. They're actually very often
bogged down by corporateinterests and they're not going to
lead the way. We need to takeour power back. And it happens one
heart, one mind at a time. Thedehumanizing takes. Takes its toll.
(18:30):
And then somebody says, I'mtired. I am so tired of the separation
between people that I'mwilling to soften my opinions enough
to put connection beforecorrection, to put humanity back
(18:51):
on a path of sanity fromdehumanizing to depolarizing. So
the book is a collection ofanecdotal stories, true stories of
my adventures with reachingacross the aisle. I've been taking
Republicans out to dinner.
(19:11):
That sounds like a heck of apilot for a TV series.
It could be. That would be fun.
Oh, yeah, it would be. Sorry.The producer in my head just yelled
at me.
Yeah.
What is that comedy show with.Is it Jerry Seinfeld that does the
(19:35):
coffee with a comedian?
He does. Yeah. It never tookoff the way like the. That driving
the carpool karaoke. I thinkhe was trying to. Trying to find
a comic version of carpoolkaraoke. I've seen a few of them.
They were kind of cool.They're kind of cool. That may work.
(19:55):
That may work. Or. It soundslike another book, at least Another
book.
Yeah.
I know that we just talkedabout how that we don't want to kind
of inspired you to. To createthis piece of art. I would call it
a piece of art, if you don'tmind, because I believe it incorporates
again, written word. It'spoems, it's music, it's connecting.
(20:20):
Who do you want to speak to? Imean, is this truly for everyone
or in this day and age, as youmentioned earlier in this conversation,
that typically people arepolarized to a point where you're
either left or you're rightsomewhere possibly in the middle
or. And then of course, ElonMusk says he's going to start a whole
(20:42):
new political side to come In.We don't know what that's going to
entail. But who, who are you,who are you trying to reach?
I'm just putting, putting itout there and I'm, I'm very curious
if, if it can reach people whoare, you know, like college students
(21:08):
or working at Apple or Google.You know, they have meditation rooms
and, and so I would say thecorporate world, but more the, the
Google, Apple people, collegecampuses, kids just forming their
opinions and we'll see. Youknow, it. There's a Unitarian church
(21:34):
that has me speaking soon and,and churches are pretty safe for
me. I've been doing churches,synagogues, those places. Everybody
agrees with me and it's, it'smy womb. What I'm really, really
excited about and scared isgetting out of my comfort zone and
(21:56):
communicating with people whomay feel threatened by what I have
to say.
So the, I think you're on youraudience, at least I would hope that
your audience is open to theopportunity to understand that what
you're sharing with everyoneis the opportunity for us to be able
(22:18):
to have a conversation, acivil conversation. Not a, not a
I'm, I'm right, you're wrongtype conversation, but a civil conversation
to come to a solution to helpus as a whole. Because whatever happens
here, you know, in, in theUnited States, whatever happens here,
it has an effect worldwide.And I think that it, it's far reaching,
(22:45):
in my opinion. Yeah. And Ihave to, I had to bring. Do you mind
if I ask you a question aboutyour daughter?
No, I don't mind.
You don't mind? I said no. No,don't do that. Go away. I, I'm sorry,
I didn't realize you had adaughter even from the last time
we had the conversation. So weshare that in common because I have
(23:08):
two daughters and obviouslythis day and age priorities are our
kids. Right. Is your daughterhelping you stand up for what you
believe in?
Well, she is, she's like ateacher because when she was, when
she was five years old, shedecided that napkins, she learned
(23:29):
napkins come from cutting downtrees, so she refused to use napkins
anymore. So there was likethis. She was born with a sense of
direction and integrity. Atage 10 she became vegan, which makes
dinner very interesting at herhouse. Now her, her mom eats meat,
(23:54):
her stepdad is a vegetarianand she's a vegan vegetarian. So
they all get along and figureit all out. So she, yeah, she, she's
been my teacher and she'sbrought out the best in me and the,
and the worst in me, the mostunconscious I've ever been, you know,
(24:17):
but even with that there,there, The. The. The time where I
almost wounded her the most, Iactually stopped myself. She was.
We were playing on the bed.She was like three years old, and.
And she slapped me reallyhard, and it was just very quickly,
like a reflex. I went to slapher back, and it was like time stopped
(24:42):
because I was able to, like,look at my hand and in this moment
and say, what are you about todo? And my hand says, teacher, a
lesson in non violence.
That's almost. Almost.
And that was enough. You know,my hand went down and. And I, I got.
(25:07):
In an instant what. Whatcraziness that would be.
And so it, It. It said, lifecan change in an instant from a different
perspective.
Yeah. And so I. What I did, Isaid, ouch, Asia, that hurt. Please
don't do that again. Not to meor anyone. And that was.
(25:29):
That seemed to work as aninteresting ideology with. With all
three of those individuals inthe same households being a meat
eater, a vegan, and avegetarian. Yeah, that would make.
I mean, I'm primarily vegan.It helps with my arthritis. It helps
(25:50):
me to manage my health in thatregard. And my wife pretty much has
come around to that. She'smore vegetarian slash vegan because
she'll eat cheese and thingslike that. Cheese and eggs and so
forth. But. And now ourdaughter just moved back with us.
Our youngest daughter movedback home with us. So she's a meat
(26:11):
eater. So I understand that dynamic.
You know, actually let me jumpin with that, because part of. I
think part of the. One of thethemes in the book is learning to
not be threatened bydiversity, but actually entertained.
(26:34):
You know, like, oh, anopportunity to learn or to see life
through somebody's eyes or tomove through some discomfort that
I'm feeling or something likethat. And I'll take it a step further
with. With my daughter'sfamily. She. She's more of like a.
An agnostic. Her mom is morelike a Christian mystical, and her
(27:00):
stepdad is a rabbi. He goesinto prisons Monday through Friday.
He goes into San Quentin andgets paid to, you know, pray and
counsel the. The prisoners.And so one of the things that my.
We're all learning and mydaughter is. Is having modeled. Is
(27:25):
it. It doesn't matter so muchwhat your religion or not. No religion
or this religion or thatreligion. It's kind of. To me, it's
as important as what. Whatclothes you wear. You know, what.
What did I put on thismorning? It's. It's not me. My beliefs
don't define me. So this is,this is in the book, the, the. The
(27:51):
audio audible version of thebook. I'll sing this. When I first
moved out of Brooklyn, NewYork, the first place I lived when
I was on my own was inGreenwich Village. And so I went
from a. From a white suburbanneighborhood of white privilege,
you could say nowadays. And Ientered a realm where individuality
(28:17):
was. Was God. You know, likeexpressing yourself in unique ways
was just so. So. And, and sowhat. I felt really uncomfortable
there for a while and. And Ilearned about prejudice because I
started to prejudge people wholooked weird or different or in some
(28:40):
way threatened my sense ofself. So I was learning that prejudice
is just fear prejudging to tryto create safety by putting people
in boxes and categories, thosepeople. So I wrote a song to help
me get over my prejudicecalled the Rainbow Song. And I'll
(29:04):
just sing a part of it foryou. One day I took me a walk in
Greenwich Village, New York to catch.
Up on the latest crazy. Ifound a brand new reference for sexual
preference listed in theyellow pages. I stumbled upon a crowded
(29:25):
hair salon. The line wentaround the block. There was a special
that day and purple body waveswith a little green on the top. Yes,
we became come in a rainbow.Yes, we are seeing the light. Would
(29:48):
you rather see through a colortv? Throw away your black and white?
Yes, we becoming a rain. Oh,yes, we are seeing the light. It's
so hard to stay with you ownkind these days when no two people
(30:09):
look alike. Well, there's newraces, new faces, new colors, new
creeds. We're swimming indiversity. You can keep company with
the folks you agree with orsample the variety. I got a born
(30:30):
again friend who dabbles inZen. She's Christian in a mystical
way. If you don't like yourreligion, get a second opinion. Why
stick to only one faith thesedays? Yes, we're becoming rainbow.
(30:50):
Yes, we are seeing the light.Would you rather see through a colored
tv and throw away your blackand white? Yes, we're becoming a
rainbow. Yes, we are seeingthe lights. It's so hard to stay
(31:13):
with your own kind these dayswhen no two people look alike. When
no two people think alike. Notwo people people are alive.
Well, thank you. Thank youvery much. You'll be here through
next Thursday.
(31:34):
Think you sound. You soundlike Elvis just then.
Thank you. Thank you verymuch. That's a wonderful song. What
an opportunity for us toreally embrace that message within
that song. Yeah, and that'spart of the audible version of your
book.
Thank you. It occurred to methat many listeners, anyone, any
(31:58):
millennium, probably doesn'tknow what the yellow pages refers
to.
So true.
And you know, they may see itas a form of yellow journalism, I
don't know. But then the otherthing is black and white televisions,
I think you may remember them.I think absolutely. I remember them
at a black and whitetelevision. I remember how exciting
(32:19):
it was to bring home a color tv.
Yep. Remember that. And I wasalso remember being the antenna mover
and the channel changer before.
Now that, that can bring uppeople's control issues, remote control
issues, and.
(32:40):
And three channels you hadabc, NBC, cbs. That was it.
That was it. And they were allnon profit, right?
Correct, Yep. Go. And it was.My dad was a journalist and I remember
him coming home and he'd beworking on something and we'd sit
down and watch something andhe wanted to change your channel.
And he'd say, michael, gochange the channel. And that was
(33:04):
the remote, me changing thechannel. Then I had to readjust the
rabbit ears to make sure thatthe channel came in. So that's way
back. You made me. You made meregress just a wee bit.
Well, the hypnotherapy worked then.
It did 100%. Although I dohave to make a quick reference when
(33:24):
we were talking about JimmyStewart out there. So for those of
you that don't know JimmyStewart, if you are a connoisseur
of old movies, or if youreally want to get the. The Hollywood
icon idol, he's one of theoriginals, so you should look him
up on tcm, look up some of hisold movies and you'll absolutely
(33:45):
love Jimmy Stewart.
It's a Wonderful Life.
Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely.Scott, without naming any ideologies
or parties, can you describeprinciples in your ideal society?
What would you, what would youconsider an ideal society? Right
now? What we see is a chaos.
(34:10):
I know, I know. Well, youknow, first of all, chaos is very
often a precursor to changein. Positive changes can happen,
you know, like if you wereclothed in a washing machine and
you were tumbling all aroundand you didn't know the context of
(34:32):
the tumble, it would seem likechaos. You'd be like, hey, we're
all in chaos. But there is apurpose to that chaos. And for me
it's a matter of faith, youknow, I believe that the tendency
to evolve is where we goeventually, and we may have to take
(35:00):
a longer time to get therethan I would like. But I think one
of the things that both peopleon both sides can agree with not
everyone, but is, you gottaget the money out of politics. And
the status quo is not helpfulanymore. And there are people who
(35:26):
really dislike Donald Trump asa human being, but they voted for
him because they, they seethat he's going to disrupt things.
For whatever his reasons are,he is a disruptor. And people perceive
that any change right now isbetter than the status quo. And I
(35:49):
think the status quo has beencreated over a series of many years.
Eisenhower warned us not toallow the military industrial complex
to start making money off ofweapons. He also said one day the
(36:12):
people of the world are goingto want peace so much that the governments
of the world are going to haveto let them. Have to step aside and
let them have it.
Let's hope so. I love it.Perspective. I think that, you know,
I agree with you. Take themoney out of politics, because money
out of politics. Money andpolitics don't mix. You can buy a
(36:35):
vote. You can buy, you can buya, you could buy your way in. Basically.
I think that that is, it makesus as voters irrelevant to a particular
point because whatever we, weas the people want as a whole doesn't
always get answered when moneysteps in. And money can sway their
(36:56):
perception of what is good forthe people and what isn't good for
the people. Compared to that.
Yeah, the, the military, oncewe started making profit on war,
once war became a profit, nota nonprofit. But, you know, I think
some of the decisions weremade by the military. So, you know,
(37:20):
I'm, I'm a capitalist. I justdon't, I think where we've gone to
is capitalism on steroids.
Yeah, I mean, I, I look, weall look. I would be very comfortable
making a couple hundredthousand dollars a year. And I'm
all for. I've got my ownbusiness. This is my own business,
my personal business. So I'm asmall business owner. So we understand
(37:41):
from even that perspective. Irespect capitalism in that regard
as well. What I would. Andthis is again, just my opinion, I
think that once you startgetting multimillionaires and billionaires
involved in politics andpaying that money in there to get
what they want in the agendathey want put into place, including
(38:04):
war. War is business, as yousaid earlier. War is business. That
it skewed everything to apoint where sometimes what's good
for the people isn'tnecessarily a goal anymore. The goal
is what can I sell, how muchcan I sell? And you know, how can
(38:26):
we profit from it? Even, evenwe've had politicians Here that went
into office, both Republicanand Democrat went into office as
a middle class individual orlower middle class, middle class
and maybe a little uppermiddle class and walked out of Congress
(38:48):
millionaire. And in my opinionthat's, you know, back in the way,
in the very beginning myfamily, the trig side of the family
helped build the. They werehere through the Civil War completely.
My ancestors on my father'sside, Civil War through have all
(39:10):
been here. The trig sidecontributed to the formation of government.
What it looks like today. Theywere members of Congress way back
when. They didn't get paid.Back in the beginning working for
Congress didn't get paid. Sonow I think it's skewed it to a point
(39:30):
where it's just not. I thinkit just needs to stay out. Earlier
you mentioned something aboutcuriosity as a kind of a superpower.
Can you help me understand? Imean I think being a parent, I understand
that, but we as adults, cancuriosity still be a superpower?
(39:52):
Yeah, there's definitely powerand curiosity.
It.
Why wouldn't we be curious?Curiosity is, is a trait in, in animals,
in children. Like what, whatwould drive us to not be curious?
(40:14):
I, I would say generallyspeaking, fear. And, and, and we're
educated, live in fear and,and in fear I need my walls of protection
and, and other people couldhurt me. So I am not going to be
curious about them becausethat might open me to the possibility
(40:37):
of being hurt or threatened insome way. So curiosity is the absence
of fear. It's the absence ofthreat. And it's natural and it could
be that, that you have topractice it and fake it for a while
to get it going. So that's whylike I started to ask questions of
(40:57):
the other side and I came upwith a bunch of curiosity questions
to ask as I interview peoplewho have voted differently than me.
And it's healing, it's healingfor both of us. They feel, you know,
listened to and respected andthat curiosity brings safety and,
(41:19):
and connection and, and humanto human communication.
Well, I think that cultivatesand that cultivates communication
in a world that kind ofrewards certainty and, and outrage
at the same time because itallows us the ability to open a conversation
(41:39):
and to at least get a dialoguegoing, as you said, with the people
that were on the airplane.Right. But they were across the aisle,
they both were wearing the redhat and conversation with them. So
I think curiosity, thatapproach, it can cultivate across
the world, not just here.
(42:01):
Yeah, yeah. And being curiousabout somebody doesn't necessarily
mean that you are Giving upyour beliefs or changing your opinions
has nothing to do with that.
Again, I think it opens aconversation. From my perspective,
I think it opens aconversation and communication, as
(42:22):
we said earlier, is kind of akey to. I mean, we have to understand
other people from theirperspective as. What is that old
cliche, Walk a mile in myshoes? You know, it's not really
cliche. It's. It's a fact.Walk a mile in my shoes, see what
I've experienced, what I'mlooking for, why I'm here. You know,
(42:43):
just assume. Don't justautomatically jump to conclusions.
And, you know, I think itworks. In your opinion, when we.
If we strip away the labels,the politics and the fear, what do
you see as a common thread forhuman behavior from a philosophical
perspective? Since. I mean,your Dr. Seuss is kind of philosophical.
(43:08):
Yeah. You know, so I'll answeras the spiritual Dr. Seuss. So. So
if you. If you strip away allthat's not real, the only thing left
that is a big deal is thislove that just wants to be revealed.
(43:28):
We want to be kind to eachother. We want to discover that another
is just a mirror of a part ofme that maybe I've denied. And maybe
I don't want to hide fromwhat's inside. And I want humanity
to bring up the best and theworst in me. So I'm coming out of
(43:50):
my hiding place. I'm comingout of my meditation cave. I'm waking
up from the dream that I needto be safe, that I need to be secure,
that I need to be sure ofwhat's going on before being curious.
Curiosity is being strong. Andwe do belong together. As messy as
(44:12):
it can be, this experimentcalled humanity is bringing us from
division to. To unity, oneheart at a time.
That's poignant, veryprofound. I think that it brings
(44:33):
us to maybe this question.Each generation seems to be believed.
The world is ending from youngall the way to old. Why does ours
feel so intense? What can welearn from that? How do we move collectively
through that, those thoughtsand those patterns and that belief?
(44:56):
I wonder if it was intense formy grandparents with World War I.
If I was. If I could slip intotheir time frame, maybe they were
experiencing the level ofcrisis that it seems like we're experiencing.
I know with my parents, withWorld War II, it. You know, they
were Jewish and it was like,Hitler wants to not just take over
the world, but he wants toeliminate genocide. Yeah. So. So
(45:21):
that was pretty. Pretty scary,I'm sure. Major intensity. I grew
up having nuclear Nightmaresand literally just frozen in terror.
Because I learned in schoolthat a nuclear bomb would vaporize
(45:42):
you pretty much. And that. Butthen we would have these shelter
drills in which we would like,get out into the halls and just assume
a certain position. And itjust seemed very weird that we would
assume a certain position sothat we would get vaporized. So there
(46:02):
was something somebody wasn'ttelling me, and it was bringing up
a lot of fear of the end ofthe world. It was a theme of mine.
And now my daughter has. Hasthe radical politics and climate
change. So she's growing upin. In. She's 16 now, and she's aware
of climate change being a. Abig issue. You know, she may not
(46:25):
choose to have children, Idon't know. But that's what's facing
that generation. So the pointis, is that every generation has
its. Some challenge. And maybeours isn't as special and as urgent
as we think it is. Maybe in.It's just that I kind of see like
(46:49):
our assignment. It's. It's ourcurriculum to work with it this time
around.
Yeah. I think that wehopefully have taken lessons from
history and lessons from whatwe've grow up, grown up with, and
with everything between WorldWar II, I mean, theoretically from
these generations, World WarII, and then Vietnam, Korea, Iraq,
(47:10):
Afghanistan, the Gulf War, allof those. It seems to me we should
have taken some lessons fromthat in order to have a better understanding
of what we as humanity shouldbe doing to help nurture us. Because
we are all connected. Itdoesn't matter what race you are,
creed you are, color you are,gender you are. It doesn't matter.
(47:32):
We are all connected. And Ithink that we as humanity need to
have a perspective of are wegoing to survive or are we not going
to survive?
You betcha. Now I know we'regoing to end pretty soon. The New
York Times, I think it'sJanuary 1st or December 31st. They
(47:52):
always come out with anarticle about the good things that
happened that year. And onething they say is that war globally
is decreasing every year, thatthere's poverty globally is getting
better every year. So to me,that's big news. Why aren't we being
(48:17):
told that every day?
Yeah, exactly. I think it'sthe media's responsibility to bring
that forward, to at leastprovide us some positive news instead
of constant, the barrage of negativity.
All right, but it's not justthe media. It's the people, because
the media are just feeding thepeople what they want. And what many
(48:40):
people want is adrenaline.They want to be scared. They, they
want to, they want to beengaged and they want the conflict.
McDonald's in Europe. Yearsago, I went to a Burger King or something
in Europe and they hadrecycling and they had vegetarian
(49:00):
options years before they cameto America. And why? Because the
people demanded it. And so if,if, if Burger King in Europe wants
to make a profit, that's howthey going to do it. So we, we have
to, you know, the collective.We need to demand good news and want
it.
(49:21):
I agree with that. That,that's a, that's an amazing and profound
statement within itself. Ithink they need to open their eyes
and listen to us, the people.We. The people. We. The people. Scott,
it. We could talk for anotherhour. I know we could, but under
orders.
Exactly. Doctor's orders.
(49:41):
But yeah, it's been awonderful opportunity to reconnect
with you again. And I thinkthat this new project that you're
working on is going to. Ithink it take off on such a point
that it will hopefullyinspire, motivate and educate some
people. So I appreciate youdoing that. Can you tell us how they
can find it and everythingelse that you do? Because you, you're
(50:02):
a coach, you're a guidance anda mentor for both men and women.
It's, yeah, it, it's. It's assimple as going to scottsongs.com
and to subscribe. So that. AndI don't send many emails, I forget,
but I do. I will let peopleknow when the new book is out. So
(50:23):
that's how to stay connected. Subscribe.
In the meantime, you also havefour other books out that are available
and those are on the screen ifyou want to look at them. And they'll
be available also with a linkin the show notes so that they can
find those as well.
Yeah, yeah. The last, the lasttime I was on your show was to promote
mindful masculinity. And yousee there's a copy of it over there.
(50:49):
There's. That's, that's the AIfantasy version of me. If I, If I
went to the gym.
AI version. Thank you. Ithought that was Scott. No, it's
Scott. It could be Michaeltoo. It could be just. It could really,
could be Scott. Again, thankyou. I really appreciate what you
(51:11):
bring to the world and yoursong, your music. Music is the, the
international language, isn'tit? Yeah. I appreciate you bringing.
It starts movements. It. Itlike it changes the world. Somebody
said that, that the Beatlesdid more to end communism in Russia
(51:33):
than any politician becausethe best way to make Something popular
is to make it illegal. So thegovernment made listening to the
Beatles illegal. And then allthe records were passed around in
black market. Just thegovernment could control the people
anymore. And the people justsaid, we want freedom. And they got
(51:53):
it, we got it. We got to dothe same thing in this country. Freedom
from what divides us. Andlet's start talking about what unites
us, because that's been sincethe beginning of history, that has
been the strategy of people inpower is divide and conquer. First
(52:15):
you have to divide, then youcan control people. That's why the
curiosity reaching across theaisle is so radical. So it's. It's
important.
It's important. This ispicking up importance. This is one
more thing before you go. Youmay have just said it, but I'm going
to ask you, do you have anywords of wisdom?
(52:36):
Words of wisdom?
You can do it in song. You cando it in voice. You can.
You can do it in voice. I cando it in rhyme. I can do it in choice.
But I think we just shared themost important part, which is don't
let them, whoever them is, andI don't really care. Don't let them
(52:58):
think for you and make youangry and upset at fellow human beings
for having different points ofview. That's how they conquer. They
divide. So what we have incommon is far more important, and
that's where the conversationneeds to be.
(53:19):
Those are profound andbrilliant words of wisdom. Scott,
again, thank you very much.I'm so happy we reconnected. When
the book comes out, please letme know. Make sure that gets in the
show notes as well. And let'stalk again.
Of course.
Absolutely.
You and I will be different people.
So. And for one more thingbefore you all go, thank you very
(53:41):
much for being a part of Onemore thing before you go, Community.
I appreciate each and everyone of you. Please, please, like
subscribe and follow. Andagain, I'll have everything and how
to get ahold of Scott in theshow notes and the webpage@v4eaglepodcast.com
have a great day, have a greatweek and thank you for being here.
Thanks for listening to thisepisode of.
(54:02):
One More Thing before you go.Check out our website@beforeyougopodcast.com
youm can find us as well assubscribe to the program and rate
us on your favorite podcastlistening platform.
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