September 24, 2025 • 46 mins
The profound exploration of metaphysical awakening takes center stage as I engage in a compelling dialogue with Sara Byers, a distinguished business leader and spiritual seeker. Following the death of her stepfather in 2020, Sara experienced a transformative journey that led her to receive over 3,000 pieces of poetry, often in the stillness of the night, revealing deep truths and insights. This episode transcends mere poetic discourse; it delves into the intricate interplay between leadership, spirituality, and the unseen forces that shape our existence. Sara's narrative encourages us to reflect on personal transformation and its potential to catalyze collective change, suggesting that the integration of business acumen with metaphysical understanding may indeed hold the key to fostering a more interconnected world. Together, we navigate the complexities of reconciling corporate strategy with a rich tapestry of spiritual insight, inviting listeners to contemplate the unseen dimensions that influence their lives and leadership styles.
Takeaways:
- Sara Byers' journey of transformation from grief to metaphysical awakening has profound implications for personal and collective change.
- The poetry Sara receives at night serves as a conduit for deeper truths and insights about life and leadership.
- The intersection of business strategy and metaphysical insight offers a holistic approach to leadership that values intuition and creativity.
- Sara's experience illustrates how grief can strip away layers, revealing our most authentic selves and fostering connection with others.
- The conversation emphasizes the necessity of curiosity as a catalyst for individual growth and societal transformation.
- Leadership is evolving to recognize the importance of integrating soul-centered approaches into decision-making processes.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
Hey, one more thing before youGo. What if the deepest truth of
your life began arriving inthe middle of the night, unbiden,
poetic and transformative? Howdoes a CEO reconcile boardroom strategy
with metaphysical insight?Stay tuned. We're going to answer
these questions and so manymore. I'm your host, Michael Herst.
Welcome to One more thingbefore you go. In this week's episode
(00:34):
of One more thing before yougo, I sit down with Sara Byers. She's
a business leader, a boardchair, and a spiritual seeker whose
journey took a profound turnafter the passing of her stepfather
in 2020. What began as grieftransformed into a metaphysical awakening.
Sarah started receivingpoetry, over 3,000 pieces to date,
often in the quiet hours ofthe night and often without conscious
(00:56):
recollection. And we're goingto talk about that. But this episode
isn't just about poetry. It'sabout the intersection of leadership,
soul, and the unseen forcesthat guide us. Sara's story invites
us to explore how personaltransformation can ripple into collective
change and how the integrationof business, spirituality and metaphysics
(01:16):
might be the key to a moreconnected world. Welcome to the show,
Sara.
Thank you so much, Michael.I'm so excited to be here. Thank
you for that amazing introduction.
Well, I've got an amazingperson here, so it does deserved
an amazing introduction.
Thank you for that. It's beautiful.
But I like to start at thebeginning. So where'd you grow up?
(01:38):
I grew up in Vermont, which iswhere I live now. And I grew up here,
moved away in my earlytwenties and then moved back to Vermont
seven and a half years later.Once I'd sort of discovered myself
outside of my parents andupbringing, I was ready to come back
(02:00):
to Vermont. It's a beautifulplace and one in which I credit a
lot of the success,achievement and becoming that I've
experienced.
I believe that. Do you haveany brothers, sisters?
I have one sister. She isthree years younger than me. Her
(02:21):
journey through life has beena really important part of my life.
So she has suffered withsubstance use disorder for about
35 years. And you know,watching her understanding the commonality
that we all share beyond ouridentity in our day to day has been
(02:45):
super powerful and it'sactually been the catalyst for much
of my work.
That's amazing. Actually. I'msorry that she's going through that.
I know that each one of ushave a journey in life. Sometimes
we have obstacles in the way,or sometimes we are given challenges.
And I know that, I can telljust looking at you, that you have
(03:07):
given your sister theopportunity to Help her overcome
that.
Yeah. Thank you for that.Thank you. Well, we are. The one
thing that I've learned andprobably what's informed my community
leadership is that the linebetween my sister and I is basically
invisible. We are. We. I couldbe her, she could be me. And so there's
(03:30):
no. There's no differencebetween us. And. Yeah. So. But thank
you for saying that. Yeah.
That's a strong, strong. Imean, that's a strong bond. Mike,
would you want to be when yougrew up? I know that you. I look,
you have a. You have a love ofmine. I'll say it out loud. Pizza.
(03:51):
I have to say that I love that.
I love it. Well, it'sinteresting because I never did want
to do pizza. I. So the yearthat I was born, my father opened
his first pizza restaurant.And when you grow up with pizza smell
everywhere, especially as ayoung child, you. That's the last
thing you want to do. So youdo not want to smell the way every
(04:11):
car smells. But what I wantedto be when I was younger, I wanted
to be a lawyer. Actually. Ihad an experience where I got to
spend part of eighth grade inthe Vermont legislature serving as
a legislative page. And so Igot to go to school on Mondays, and
(04:31):
then Tuesday through Friday,spend at our state capitol. So I
was pretty determined tobecome a lawyer who was going to
help impact the world inpositive ways. But it didn't. It
didn't turn out that way.Pizza. Pizza ended up being the way
that I would impact the world.
Well, look, the universe putsus, I think, where we're supposed
(04:52):
to be at the time we'resupposed to be. I agree with that.
I grew up. I grew up. I mean,I have so many fond memories of a
couple of pizza joints in. Inwhere I grew up in Colorado Springs
as a child. And then my firstjob. I grew up in an Italian environment.
So the pizza is. I'm talkingabout real Italian. My sister married
at home. We have Sicilian inour family. We have Tuscans in our
(05:15):
family. And then my brother inlaw at the time, since divorce and
she's remarried. But mybrother in law at the time, Roberto,
brought a whole bunch ofpeople over from Italy. We were all
living in the same apartmentcomplex. We had dinners together.
I learned society, I learnedculture. I learned pasta gnocchi.
(05:36):
You name a focaccia. And inpizza, my first job was in Two guys
from Italy pizzeria, and itwas two guys from Italy.
Oh, my gosh. Okay. That'sincredible. Let me just say that
going To Italy two years ago,Three years ago. Oh, my gosh. I just
want to sit. I want to be. I'msomeone. I want to just take in the
(06:00):
environment, including thepizza. I mean, I couldn't eat enough
pizza. Oh, I never get sick ofpizza. Do you get sick of pizza?
No, I. In fact, I have. I havea solo stove now. I'm working towards
a. A dome. A dome Arc xl. Wemake pizza every Friday night and
we make it in the solo stove.At the moment, it's a piece oven,
(06:22):
sits out on the back porch orthe back patio. And it is. Yeah,
it is. And we make our own.So, you know, it's great. It just.
It's life. It is, it is, itis. Pizza is my food.
I. I love that. And I. Youknow, it is a beautiful. So my father,
(06:45):
I mentioned the year I wasborn, he actually bought into. And
you're going to be okay. Don'tbe. Try to withstand this. He bought
into a Domino's. He was the50th. He had the 50th Domino's Pizza
Store in the country. And atthat time, you were sourcing your
own ingredients. It was a verydifferent sort of gig than it is
now. And he got out of that inthe early 80s, and then in 1990,
(07:09):
wanted to create his own. Andwe've been going 35 years. And then
I joined in 2001. Yeah.
That's amazing. I mean, Ithink that from a family perspective,
going to a family pizzeria, afamily restaurant, a family owned
restaurant is much nicer, butmuch better for us both emotionally
(07:31):
as well as satisfying. Andit's satisfying in many, many, many
ways. So you did the rightthing. It's all good. You guys did
the right thing. You did theright thing.
Thank you for that.
Right now we're going to getback to the agenda. Do you believe
in the mystery of subconsciouscreativity? I think. I mean, I do.
(07:52):
We know we talked a little bitbefore this started about some of
our backgrounds. And I want to100% believe in the creativity aspect
of healing and the creativity.I'm getting too excited. I can't
talk, so I'll let you talksomehow. Do you play the mishra of
subconscious creativity?
Oh, my gosh, absolutely. And Ithink that it is playing itself out
(08:17):
in all of our lives in avariety of ways. I think it played
itself out before I evenunderstood it. But today it is very
specific. As you mentioned, Ireceive. I say receive because I
don't know another word to usepoetry and words in the Middle of
the night. They've even becomesomewhat science fictiony lately.
(08:38):
But they come from somewhere.When they first started coming through,
they would use words likehearken, words that I do not use.
And so I knew it wasn'tconscious. I now, having listened
to other creators in a varietyof ways, and one of my absolute favorites
(08:59):
lately is Jon Batiste talkingabout that liminal space that perhaps
is universal, that all of uscan tap into. So I'm not certain
if it is my subconscious orsome type of universality that is
available to all of us, butnevertheless, it has changed my life
(09:19):
in extraordinary ways, and Iwould never want to lose this.
John Batiste, the jazz artist.Yes, I love him. I get what he's
gone through. I, I'm. And. Andwhat he and his family have gone
through, actually, you and hiswife. It is a profound opportunity
(09:39):
for us to really realize thatthere's more to life than. Than what
we see in front of us. I thinkit is. It's. There's. There is more
to life within us. And I thinkthat the messages that you're getting
are an amazing opportunity,especially unconsciously, is a conversation
(10:01):
that you're having with theuniverse that then you get to share
with the rest of us.
It's so profound. And I thinkinitially I was kind of in hiding
because all of this is comingin to your point. Not sure how it
meshes with the business andcommunity leadership part at that
time. And so but it, itflooded in in this torrent, and I,
(10:25):
I'm like, I know this isn'tjust for me. And so I continue to
try to find ways todisseminate it because it's guided
my life so beautifully. Yeah.
Now, did you, did this starttaking place before or after you
father died?
After, actually. So mystepfather passed away in March of
(10:46):
2020, and he had hadAlzheimer's for 12 years. And interestingly,
he was an attorney. And he andI, prior to his Alzheimer's, we.
We would. We were both verystrong willed. So, you know, we wouldn't
clash necessarily, but therewas some tension there. And once
he had Alzheimer's, certainparts of himself started to fade
(11:08):
away and his spirit started toshine through. I now know that I
was able to feel his spiritbefore he passed. I would be sitting
in my office and just feeldrawn to him, magnetized, and would
need to go visit. I went andvisited the last day he was at his
house because I just felt himcalling me. And we passed vigil by
(11:34):
his bedside for 12 days. And Iwould drive back and Forth from my
house to hospice, listening tothe instrumental from the Titanic
because I just wanted to feelit all. And he passed one evening
and I drove home after and Ipulled into my road and I said, okay,
this is where this music needsto stop. So I pulled up a new song
(11:58):
on my car radio and it pulledup the Lumineers and their song Ophelia.
But a different song startedplaying through the speakers and
it was Frank Sinatra's My Way.And I knew that it was Harvey talking
with me. I just knew. Andseven months later, my mom, who read
(12:23):
a ton of books on death,afterlife, found a medium who really
resonated with her, who had aseven month waiting list. So on Christmas
Eve that year, she got on thephone with this medium in Arizona
and she said, there is agentleman here and he is singing,
does Frank Sinatra's My Waymean anything to you? And that was
(12:48):
all I needed. That changedeverything for me. It moved from
exploration to understanding.
That's. That is amazing. Ithink that, you know, I. First and
foremost, you know, I'm sorrythat she went through that journey
with the Alzheimer's. Weunderstand. My wife and I understand
it from a personalperspective. Her father died of Louis
body dementia and we were withhim for the last 18 months. We took
(13:12):
care of him for 18 months ofhis life before he passed. So I walked
your pathway. And, and. Andit's a hard journey to walk when
you. It's a long goodbye. Andyeah, long goodbyes are. Everything's
always got easy because it's.You get that extra time. And yes,
in some respects, in some waysit is, but in other respects, it's
(13:33):
still unexpected. Unexpected.It's still a loss, it's still a grief.
So I'm sorry for your loss,but I'm really happy that you got
a message from the other sidethat said, hey, everything is cool.
Everything is cool. I mean, itjust. It's been amazing. I. Some
of the words that I receive, Iwill. Sometimes I can be in someone's
(13:58):
energy from the other side andI am translating it. So that happens
here and there, both withpeople that I know and with people
that I don't necessarily know,but I'm inspired by somehow and that
I just find it such an honorto be situated in someone else's
(14:22):
field in that way. And I lovethe ability to write from that place
so that we can all share that story.
Yeah, that's great. I thinkthat, you know, we are all connected.
We're all connected in thisuniverse and I love the idea that
you were able to reach intothat and recognize that connection.
Do you believe that grief canopen a portal to deeper truth like
(14:45):
that?
Absolutely, yes. Because Ithink when you think about all of
the layers that we acquirethroughout our lives, we just layer
ourselves with stuff, ideas,stories, and I think sometimes it's
hard to permeate those layers.The unseen is subtle, and so to permeate
those layers is challenging.But when we're in a state of grief,
(15:07):
those. Those layers almostfall off. We're at our most visceral
core selves. And so I think itreally allows the unseen to be recognized
in a way that it can be toughin our everyday lives.
It is. I know that we all havethat opportunity to touch that. I
think some of us are able totouch it a little. A little closer
(15:29):
or a little easier. Forwhatever reason, the universe allows
that opening to come about. Iknow that through this, my conversations
over the last almost six yearsnow, it's been an amazing journey
into understanding the levelsof which people can. Can do what
you do, what you've done. Butyou've reached it in a very unique
(15:52):
way because you've written3,000 poems, and you see the message.
You see them as messages,memories, or. I mean, that's a lot.
That's a lot of poetry.
It really is. And. And Inever. I struggled with what to call
it, because, you know, it is.It is poetry, but it's guidance.
(16:12):
It's there. I often call themwords because I have nothing else
to really, you know, is itgoing to be. You are a stunning poet
who has received beautifulaccolades. This, to me, and I've
been cautioned not to speaknegatively about my poetry, and so
I'm not. But it is. It isguidance. It is ethereal at times.
(16:40):
Feels like I am sometimesspeaking in a different voice. Yeah.
And when this happens andwhen. I mean, here's the thing. I
believe that when you're giventhe gift of creativity, when it comes
through the universe, and itcomes through the messages like that
(17:01):
from the universe, it's aprofound opportunity for us to really
have a deeper understanding ofhow we're connected. So regardless
of. Regardless of how you feelthe words are put down, whether you
think it's poetry. I mean,look at the changes in how poetry
is defined. Even today, youlook at more lyrical poetry, like
(17:22):
Lynn. I always mess his nameup. Sorry, Linwell. Lin Manuel Miranda.
Yes, yes.
Rally goes. Maybe I shouldsing his name and it might come out
better.
Right? No, you're so right.
He opened the door to. I mean,People now understand, for example,
(17:43):
the Constitution from adifferent perspective because he
took the opportunity forsomething that, like, I had to learn
the Constitution over and overand over again. When I was going
through the police academy,when I went to college, in the beginning,
I went through college to getdegrees in. In law enforcement. And
they drill the Constitutioninto you, but it's boring. And you
(18:03):
get Kiziko. Well, I heardabout that, but it's boring. But
Lin Manuel received that giftof creativity through lyrical poetry
and brought it to the world,and it allowed everybody to have
a better understanding and go,wow, I walk away learning something.
So I think you have theopportunity to do the same thing
(18:23):
with the way that you'representing your poetry.
Thank you for saying that,because I have recently, I would
say, over the last couple ofweeks, come to understand that. That
I. I am. I believe thatpurpose, that it's. It's. In a way,
it's sort of. I. I see it asalmost pulling in the unseen in a
way that is palatable forpeople who maybe aren't in this space.
(18:48):
So it's. It's sort of thatfirst step. Yeah. So thank you for
saying that.
Well, let's talk. Youmentioned a word. How do you define
the unseen and how has itshaped your understanding of reality?
Because I think that we, intrying to understand the unseen,
help us understand. Let's talkabout that just a second.
(19:11):
You know, I. And I'd becurious in your six years through
your podcast if that sort ofdeveloped within you, because it
continues to expand. For me, Ithink in the beginning, I saw it
as outside of myself. I saw itas this sort of amorphous something
that was happening around methat I could. Couldn't quite grab
onto. But I think I nowunderstand it to be inside myself.
(19:36):
So I now see the unseen asbeing infinite within me. And so
it's an infinite explorationwithin me that it's just an infinite
understanding. There's just.It's like an explorer when you think
of exploring, like, tangiblelands. It's. It's discovery within
(19:57):
oneself. The more I go, thedeeper I go, the more I realize everything
is connected, the more I canliterally, in the same way that I
receive words, I can also havea connection and what I would call
a conversation with almostanything. I don't use that all that
(20:23):
often, but I now, because thewords have gotten me to a place where
I now understand where that'sreceived, so I can experience it
in a variety of ways in mylife with an animal or a tree. I
am Just because we are thesame. So it is. It is finding that
(20:45):
space within myself that thatholds the thing that I'm talking
to.
Yeah. What you're talking isthe same thing Native Americans believe
in and practice. Same thingthat Tibetans, Hindi Buddhism, Zen,
they all feel the same way. Weare connected, all as one. So when
(21:07):
you ask me what my thoughtswere and in all the conversations
that I've had with individualsfrom the same. From those perspectives,
when those philosophies fromthose. Some are called religions,
but they call them morephilosophies, is that we are all
connected and that we. Once wehave the opportunity to touch that
(21:30):
universe in such a way, youare correct. It becomes part of us
and it's deep within, insideus. And when you reach the level
that the unseen becomes theseen, then it allows us a better
understanding of how we allfit into this whole stimulus.
Yes.
(21:51):
Including the trees and thebirds and the bees and the. You know,
it take. Take 5 minutes and goout and sit on a patio and just breathe
and look at the sky and lookat the clouds and just relax. And
then watch the birds, watchthe bees, watch the. The animals,
the bunnies, the. Anythingthat's in and around you and watch
(22:13):
how they interact with eachother and how they interact with
the Earth. Mother Earth.You'll see how the unseen could be
seen. It's like liquid. It'slike listening to music. Music and
dance are an internationallanguage. You can enjoy and understand
(22:35):
what music is, no matter whatwhich language it's in. You get to
feel, you get to close youreyes, and you really understand where
it's coming from. You watch adance, and especially interpretive
dance, you can see a storyunfold. So in a sense, you're seeing
the unseen even from that perspective.
Absolutely. That's sobeautiful. And I will add that I
(23:01):
also. I now walk through life.So I. Recently, I was not as excited
about the Vermont winter, andI decided that I wanted to head to.
I. I used to live in SouthFlorida, so I went to Miami for three
months last year by myself.Essentially. My husband was down
(23:25):
for a little bit. But what Ilearned is I also see myself almost
as a radar. Like I'm walkingthrough life. So when you're out
in the backyard with thebunnies, birds, and when you're walking
through the streets of Miamiwith the traffic and the noise, watching
yourself, being aware ofyourself almost as a radar in a variety
(23:49):
of different environments iswhere I. Now that's. That's where
my current discovery of theunseen lies. Is in putting myself
in new and differentconversations, because this conversation
with you is one. Because Iknow that I am expanding and unfolding
is probably a better word,unfolding with all of it.
(24:14):
That's amazing. And I thinkthat's another level of you touching
the universe in a way that itallows you to present it to us in
a very unique way. Very cool.It's just cool.
Thanks. Thank you.
You're a CEO and a boardleader, because you are now. You've
(24:38):
been presented with thismetaphysical insight into the world
and nature and the universeand how it all works and how we're
all connected and that eachand everything that we do has an
effect on those things aroundus in some form or another. How do
you integrate the metaphysicalinsights into, like, your business?
Do you do that?
Yeah. Yes, my business, it'salmost easier than the other things.
(25:02):
So business is easier becausethese are people who I have worked
with for 20 years who havewatched me go through all of this.
So it's. It's somewhat easierbecause it is our family business
and we are evolving together.I think where I had the greatest
challenge was in communityleadership. You know, most. I chair
(25:28):
a college board right now. I,in January, finished chairing the
Vermont Business Roundtable,which is a group of 120 CEOs. That
was. That was tough for me atfirst because I didn't understand
where those two thingscorrelated and. But I've now learned
(25:50):
that it doesn't need to beexplicit, meaning I still did start
a roundtable board meetingwith one of my poems, because that
is me. And that, I'm certain,had never been done before. But it
is also in my being thewholest version of myself. I am affecting
(26:16):
the spheres in which I sit.And it is. It has taken me a while
to have that trust that thereis nothing more required of me except
for being my wholest and mosttrue self in every situation. So
that I don't need to force,you know, the metaphysical ideas
necessarily in the board, inthe boardroom, unless it actually
(26:40):
is what I'm feeling in themoment in which I will.
Yeah, that makes a lot ofsense. I mean, I think that we kind
of. I think we all. To acertain perspective, especially the
way society and culture hasdeveloped us. I have a business degree
as well, so I understandbusiness management from. From that
(27:01):
perspective. It's kind ofthese things where we always have
to put a mask. I do it as acop. You have to put a mask on. You
have to wear a mask. And, youknow, we don't always get to be ourselves
the way we normally are. Wedon't have that opportunity to always
come out and be our, or whatwe truly want to say or do because
we have to look at the outsideinterest in regard to outcome of
(27:23):
what we say. And whether ornot it's going to have an effect
on so many factors, whether itbe business wise or other people's
lives, you have to stop andthink about how is this going to
affect people, how is thisgoing to affect my business, how
this is going to affect whatthe end result is. Is it going to
be positive, negative, is itgoing to be short term, long term?
(27:44):
I mean, there's so many otherthings to do. Do you, do you think
based upon you starting tointegrate kind of that within, within
that, do you think leadershipis evolving to include more soul
centered approaches? I, Ipersonally think they should.
Yeah. It's, it's actuallystriking because along these last
four years, I mean I, I have alot of, you know, sit down meetups,
(28:08):
lunches, coffees, et cetera.And those are the spaces that I would
begin to expose myself. Atfirst, what I found absolutely striking
was that 95% of the time, andI'm talking about CEOs, philanthropists
in our community, theyresonated with this. They either
(28:29):
resonated with it or ittouched something in them. So they
were incredibly interested init. I never received the oh my gosh,
pushback. If anything, theseare the people who now follow Dear
Joy Love on Instagram. Becauseas leaders we are often tasked, I
mean, my gosh, police officeras well, you are tasked with having
(28:53):
to make decisions without allof the information. And often what
we do without realizing it iswe're using, we're using the unseen,
we're using intuition, we'reusing gut instinct, we're using things
that to me are sort of thegateway to that unseen. And so leaders,
(29:14):
I actually think are morepredisposed to this in some ways
because they've always had toaccess this other part of themselves
in addition to the data andthe analysis. But so I think that
it absolutely is becoming morepresent in leadership and the more
people who can be their wholeselves unapologetically in those
(29:38):
rooms, the better it's goingto be for all of us.
I agree with that. I think, Imean, I was a sergeant and I had
a team and you know, even fromthe debt management level, that was
my team. I had to makedecisions for that team. And with
that team, no matter what wedid in each and every day, we had
(30:00):
to do that. So thank you foracknowledging that, by the way. Most
people don't understand thatcops are for like a life changing,
instantaneous decisionsometimes like that.
Yes.
And there are life and deathin those instances. So not many people,
it. Being a cop is unique fromthis perspective because when you
(30:21):
have contact with a cop, witha police officer, deputy sheriff,
a law enforcement officer,it's typically, typically you're
either a victim or you're acriminal. Typically, I mean, you
may have here and there, youmay have a thing where they come
up, say, hey, how you doing?How's life? How's things? Which I
used to do walkabouts likethat where I go into the shops and
(30:42):
meet people and sit down andtalk and kind of get community oriented.
But that's not alwaysavailable. So you either you're either
a criminal or you're a victim.So it's kind of one of those where
it, I mean, we're going to getoff on that end. But we had to learn
as a team, we had to learn howto reach that. Everything that you
(31:03):
just spoke about. We had tolearn to understand our inner intuition.
You had to learn to believe inthat. You had to learn to listen.
You had to learn to connectyour mind and your body with the
environment and those thingsaround you and the people that were
around you. So I think thatgoing that naturally into business
is a positive thing. Youmentioned wholeness. So individual
(31:31):
wholeness is a key. Do youthink there's a key to collective
transformation?
I really do. I really do.Because I think so many of us are
walking around parts ofourselves. You know, I, I, and I
say that because I was, Ireally didn't, you know, all of the
things that I now understandto be true, I didn't get or didn't
(31:54):
feel 10 years ago. And so Iwas, you know, you talk about wearing
a mask. I was wearing a mask.I was achievement after achievement
insatiably, because I didn'tfeel all that great about myself.
Something was missing. Ialways thought it was because I was
a college dropout, which Iwas. I thought that I'd failed when
(32:18):
I was 20 years old because ofmy severe anxiety and that I was
never gonna be able to sort ofoutrun that shame that I carried.
And I think so many of us, noone would ever have had any idea
that that was the case for mebecause I was still, you know, succeeding
in business and succeeding incommunity work. No one had any idea
(32:39):
what was under the surface.And I think that's true for a lot
of people. Who are walkingthrough this world. And to me, this
space of wholeness where weare able to both understand ourselves
and our connection to eachother and the world around us is
where we begin to makedecisions from a more whole place
(33:05):
and start to see each otherand collaborate more. And I think
that's where our polaritiesand divisiveness begin to go away.
I actually think it startswith the individual. I don't think
it is. You know, I talk aboutliving now from the inside out instead
of the outside in. I almostthink that's collective as well,
(33:27):
a collective necessity.
I agree with that. I thinkthat's a great approach to life in
general. Do you thinkcuriosity plays a role in personal
societal growth?
Speaking of growth, I lovethat, Michael, because. Yes. And
if I was to give one onequality of mine, now that that leads
(33:52):
me. It is that it is. I. I'mso curious about everything. I'm
curious about us right now,right, right here, what, what this
is becoming, why we arebrought together, what new insights
or creations come out of ourcollision. I'm curious about political
(34:15):
ideology. I'm curious aboutcollectivism versus individualism.
Like, I'm curious aboutmyself. Yes, Curiosity leads has
led me, and I really do thinkthat all of us operating from a space
of curiosity which can bevulnerable, enables us to learn about
(34:36):
ourselves and each other.Yeah. So great. I love that you said
that. How does it, how do you.How does that manifest in your life,
Carrie?
My life, I. I mean, it's overmy lifetime, I've evolved, evolved
immensely in regard to, numberone, an understanding of how we're
all connected. And the. I. Ihave always been a curious individual
(34:58):
since I was a child. The onething my father did teach me, I lost
him at a very young, a very. Ihadn't seen him since I was 15 because
he and my mother had split upat 17. He died in a different state.
But the things that I doremember him teaching me, one of
them was curiosity. And neverlose curiosity, because curiosity.
He was a journalist and abrilliant writer, and he taught me
(35:24):
that curiosity is amethodology for us to be able to
continue to grow and learnwithin ourselves. And he taught me
that from a very, very youngage. So that in itself stuck with
me through my life. And I'vedone everything that I can to continuously
learn. I'm continuouslylearning. It's. I'm curious about
(35:45):
this. I. Now we have aninstant computer in our hands where.
And my wife will. Wife. Mykids will tell you something will
come up. And I go, wait aMinute I gotta write that and then
I'll write it down or I'lllook it up really quick and I'll
make a note of it. And I gotlike, I don't know, I probably have
300 windows open because it'slike, okay, here's one more thing,
(36:06):
one more thing, one morething, one more thing, one more thing.
So yes, I think curiosity,people say the cliche curiosity kills
the cat. Maybe if you'recurious one too many times in the
wrong areas. Yes. Butcuriosity also opened you up to learning,
(36:27):
opens you up to growing, opensyou up to intellectually and physically
being able to experience theworld in a new and unique way. Curiosity
opens that door. So that,that's, that's my.
So beautiful. I love that. AndI'm sorry about your dad, but what
(36:49):
a gift that he gave you thatis lasting and probably something
that you've given to yourdaughters. I would guess I have.
They both do the, they, they,they give me a hard time about it,
but they follow suit.
So as is the way with parentsand children.
Well, exactly. And you know,I, I tried to, I've tried to do the
same thing for my kids. Andyou know, my kids are constantly
(37:10):
growing and they're constantlywanting to learn and you know, they've
learned, they've understoodthat the only way to really understand
life is to continue to learn.And what can makes us can learn is
the curiosity. I want to knowwhy, I want to know what, why does
this work? What is it doingfor us in all aspects? That includes
(37:33):
the ideologies you weretalking about, political environment,
the climate environment, the,the, you know, everything. However
the earth is changing. I meanthe earth, mother Earth is mad and
yes, she's major mad. What canwe do about that? That opens doors
for that. And I respect youwhen I to leave Vermont in the wintertime
(37:55):
because I grew up in Coloradoand we lived at 8, 500ft and it snowed
in June.
Oh my goodness.
So, so yeah, 30 inch snows andthings like that. And we drove as
far as we could get away untilthey said, when you said snow shovel,
they went, what's that?
Yes, that's exactly what I wasyearning for. Yes. And I'm like,
(38:18):
I need to get far enough souththat that question erupts. Yes, I
know it's lovely in certainaspects, but again, I don't know
that I'll do it again. I justcontinue to try to listen to myself
because people ask me, are yougoing to Florida again? I have absolutely
(38:39):
no idea right now because inEvery moment I'm just trying to hear
me and follow it as best I can.
Well, I. I did it because it'sjust too cold and I was tired. Cover
snow. The reality is I founddoctors down here that put me back
together. So, you know, it. Itallowed us to grow that way. So it's.
(39:03):
I couldn't find the doctors,and five doctors in Colorado said
I'd be in a wheelchair for therest of my life. So I came this way.
My sister lives down here inArizona, and I came down here and
doctors here said, yeah, wecan do that. So this is where we
stayed. So.
Yes.
Back on. Yeah. Poetry. Youhave messages that continue to guide
(39:28):
you. What's the one poem ormessage that continues to guide you?
Maybe there's one that stickswith you. And why. Why does that
stick with you so much?
I have. I have it on my phone.And it's not a poem. It is a set
of words, but it is rememberwho you are. Because I think that's
(39:53):
true of all of us. The more wecan remember who we are, the stronger
we're going to be asindividuals and as a society and
collective. And it's easy toforget who you are in moments when
you are sort of in that busyhamster wheel, which I can still
(40:14):
be in. When you are navigatingsomething that's really challenging.
And you wonder. There's no wayin this world that I'm going to find
the strength to get throughit. For me, it is just remembering
who I am and connecting withwho I am, because that's where creation
and becoming originates. Andso if I can stay connected there,
(40:35):
and if we all can stayconnected there, I think that what's
gonna make Mother Earth happy.As for us all to be connected with
our.
If you can hear me, you frozeand now you're back.
(40:56):
Oh, I'm. That I can't. Okay, good.
One second. We may have to re.I may have to ask you that again.
Because it.
That's okay. I'll give you atotally different answer.
Likely that's okay, too.
Hang on and let me just see. Ican see it too. That I'm a little
fuzzy, so hopefully it's noton. It likely is on my end in Vermont
(41:21):
because it can be. Okay. Is itstaying consistent now?
It's consistent now. And yeah,we're almost done. We're almost done.
Anyway, we'll be wrapping here.
Okay.
So it's almost done. So thatwas a brilliant answer from what.
I could hear that. But I heardabout every other word I Filled in
the rest myself. But yeah,it's probably better they couldn't
(41:44):
hear my thoughts, so.
Okay. Would you mind asking meagain so that I can get in the space?
Awesome.
I may not be able to. Oh,you're glitching again.
Oh, no. I am so sorry.
Well, that's okay. Let's seeif we can. I'm going to pause. No,
(42:09):
I don't remember the question specifically.
So I kind of do. I, I, I do.If you want me to try again.
How about we do this? BecauseI'm going to have to cut some of
that out.
Great.
So what we'll do is this. Thisis one more thing before you go.
If someone's feelingdisconnected or stuck or stuck in
(42:30):
the scene or the unseen,what's one way they can begin exploring
the unseen and help them move forward?
For me, it is sitting withyourself. Truly sitting with yourself.
I heard a lot about meditationand the things that I needed to do
(42:53):
to try to be connected. Noneof that really worked for me until
I actually found spaciousnesswithin my life. And that could mean
five minutes, it could mean ahalf an hour. But literally sitting
with yourself and feeling yourbody, feeling your sensations, hearing,
listening to yourself, that,to me, is the pathway to the unseen.
(43:18):
It is acceptance of everythingthat arises, both feeling and sensation
and thought, and justfollowing it where it goes. I think
that's what takes you to thespace of oneness and connection.
That's amazing. I think thatwe all should take that to heart
in regard to especiallyconnecting with ourselves and connecting
ourselves with the universe.This opportunity for reflection.
(43:43):
You have a lot of ways toconnect with people. Tell me how
we can reach you. And you'vegot two books and a podcast.
Yes. Thank you. So I. Mywebsite is probably the best way,
which saraspires.com, but I dohave two poetry collections available
on Amazon. I have an Instagrampage where I put poetry and some
(44:06):
thought leadership, which isDear Joy Love. And I also have the
Collecting Insight podcastwhere my partner and I just explore
what it means to be human.
I. It's a brilliant podcast.I've been listening to it. So thank
you for being a part of thiscommunity. It's you. It's great.
So everybody needs to take alisten to that and I will make sure
(44:27):
that that's in the show notesand that they have an easy way just
to click and get right to youto make it easy.
Amazing. Thank you so much, Michael.
Thank you. What an amazingjourney. What an amazing opportunity
for you to redefine yourselfand have some purpose in your life
and to move us all in theright direction. So I appreciate
that the universe connected usand thank you for being here.
(44:49):
Thank you so much for havingme. It's been an honor, truly.
This is Again, I'll make sureeverything's in the show notes so
that we got everything squaredaway for them to connect with you.
Sarah Byers reminds us thattransformation doesn't always arrive
with fanfare, sometimeswhispers in verse, in silence, in
the spaces we don'tunderstand. Her story is a testament
(45:09):
to the power of listening, andnot just others, but to the quiet
voice within. It's abouthonoring the mystery, embracing the
metaphysical, and allowinggrief to become a gateway to deeper
connection in a world thatoften values logic over intuition,
structure of a soul. Sarahinvites us to consider a new kind
of leadership, one rooted incuriosity, creativity and communication
(45:30):
with the unseen. So if youever felt a stir of something deeper,
if you ever wondered whetheror not your inner world could shape
the outer one, let thisepisode be your permission to explore,
to listen, to receive, and totrust that sometimes the most powerful
truths arrive in poetry. Sothank you Sarah.
(45:51):
Thank you so much, Michael.
Thank you everyone for that'sa wrap for today's episode. I hope
you found it inspirationalmotivation and a few new perspectives
take with you. If you enjoyedthis conversation, be sure to like
subscribe and follow us. Itreally helps us continue bringing
incredible stories andinsights. If you want to watch this
episode, head over YouTube,catch the full version. We'd love
(46:13):
to hear from you. If you haveany questions or ideas or thinking,
make a great guest, reach out.Contact us well Mike, one more thing
before you go.com thank youfor being part of one more thing
before you go Community andOne more Thing before you all go.
So have a great day, have agreat week and thank you for being
here.
Thanks for listening to thisepisode of One More Thing before
(46:33):
youe Go. Check out ourwebsite@beforeyougopodcast.com youm
can find us as well assubscribe to the program and rate
us on your favorite podcastlistening platform.
Hey, one more thing before youGo. What if the deepest truth of
your life began arriving inthe middle of the night, unbiden,
poetic and transformative? Howdoes a CEO reconcile boardroom strategy
with metaphysical insight?Stay tuned. We're going to answer
these questions and so manymore. I'm your host, Michael Herst.
Welcome to One more thingbefore you go. In this week's episode
(00:34):
of One more thing before yougo, I sit down with Sara Byers. She's
a business leader, a boardchair, and a spiritual seeker whose
journey took a profound turnafter the passing of her stepfather
in 2020. What began as grieftransformed into a metaphysical awakening.
Sarah started receivingpoetry, over 3,000 pieces to date,
often in the quiet hours ofthe night and often without conscious
(00:56):
recollection. And we're goingto talk about that. But this episode
isn't just about poetry. It'sabout the intersection of leadership,
soul, and the unseen forcesthat guide us. Sara's story invites
us to explore how personaltransformation can ripple into collective
change and how the integrationof business, spirituality and metaphysics
(01:16):
might be the key to a moreconnected world. Welcome to the show,
Sara.
Thank you so much, Michael.I'm so excited to be here. Thank
you for that amazing introduction.
Well, I've got an amazingperson here, so it does deserved
an amazing introduction.
Thank you for that. It's beautiful.
But I like to start at thebeginning. So where'd you grow up?
(01:38):
I grew up in Vermont, which iswhere I live now. And I grew up here,
moved away in my earlytwenties and then moved back to Vermont
seven and a half years later.Once I'd sort of discovered myself
outside of my parents andupbringing, I was ready to come back
(02:00):
to Vermont. It's a beautifulplace and one in which I credit a
lot of the success,achievement and becoming that I've
experienced.
I believe that. Do you haveany brothers, sisters?
I have one sister. She isthree years younger than me. Her
(02:21):
journey through life has beena really important part of my life.
So she has suffered withsubstance use disorder for about
35 years. And you know,watching her understanding the commonality
that we all share beyond ouridentity in our day to day has been
(02:45):
super powerful and it'sactually been the catalyst for much
of my work.
That's amazing. Actually. I'msorry that she's going through that.
I know that each one of ushave a journey in life. Sometimes
we have obstacles in the way,or sometimes we are given challenges.
And I know that, I can telljust looking at you, that you have
(03:07):
given your sister theopportunity to Help her overcome
that.
Yeah. Thank you for that.Thank you. Well, we are. The one
thing that I've learned andprobably what's informed my community
leadership is that the linebetween my sister and I is basically
invisible. We are. We. I couldbe her, she could be me. And so there's
(03:30):
no. There's no differencebetween us. And. Yeah. So. But thank
you for saying that. Yeah.
That's a strong, strong. Imean, that's a strong bond. Mike,
would you want to be when yougrew up? I know that you. I look,
you have a. You have a love ofmine. I'll say it out loud. Pizza.
(03:51):
I have to say that I love that.
I love it. Well, it'sinteresting because I never did want
to do pizza. I. So the yearthat I was born, my father opened
his first pizza restaurant.And when you grow up with pizza smell
everywhere, especially as ayoung child, you. That's the last
thing you want to do. So youdo not want to smell the way every
(04:11):
car smells. But what I wantedto be when I was younger, I wanted
to be a lawyer. Actually. Ihad an experience where I got to
spend part of eighth grade inthe Vermont legislature serving as
a legislative page. And so Igot to go to school on Mondays, and
(04:31):
then Tuesday through Friday,spend at our state capitol. So I
was pretty determined tobecome a lawyer who was going to
help impact the world inpositive ways. But it didn't. It
didn't turn out that way.Pizza. Pizza ended up being the way
that I would impact the world.
Well, look, the universe putsus, I think, where we're supposed
(04:52):
to be at the time we'resupposed to be. I agree with that.
I grew up. I grew up. I mean,I have so many fond memories of a
couple of pizza joints in. Inwhere I grew up in Colorado Springs
as a child. And then my firstjob. I grew up in an Italian environment.
So the pizza is. I'm talkingabout real Italian. My sister married
at home. We have Sicilian inour family. We have Tuscans in our
(05:15):
family. And then my brother inlaw at the time, since divorce and
she's remarried. But mybrother in law at the time, Roberto,
brought a whole bunch ofpeople over from Italy. We were all
living in the same apartmentcomplex. We had dinners together.
I learned society, I learnedculture. I learned pasta gnocchi.
(05:36):
You name a focaccia. And inpizza, my first job was in Two guys
from Italy pizzeria, and itwas two guys from Italy.
Oh, my gosh. Okay. That'sincredible. Let me just say that
going To Italy two years ago,Three years ago. Oh, my gosh. I just
want to sit. I want to be. I'msomeone. I want to just take in the
(06:00):
environment, including thepizza. I mean, I couldn't eat enough
pizza. Oh, I never get sick ofpizza. Do you get sick of pizza?
No, I. In fact, I have. I havea solo stove now. I'm working towards
a. A dome. A dome Arc xl. Wemake pizza every Friday night and
we make it in the solo stove.At the moment, it's a piece oven,
(06:22):
sits out on the back porch orthe back patio. And it is. Yeah,
it is. And we make our own.So, you know, it's great. It just.
It's life. It is, it is, itis. Pizza is my food.
I. I love that. And I. Youknow, it is a beautiful. So my father,
(06:45):
I mentioned the year I wasborn, he actually bought into. And
you're going to be okay. Don'tbe. Try to withstand this. He bought
into a Domino's. He was the50th. He had the 50th Domino's Pizza
Store in the country. And atthat time, you were sourcing your
own ingredients. It was a verydifferent sort of gig than it is
now. And he got out of that inthe early 80s, and then in 1990,
(07:09):
wanted to create his own. Andwe've been going 35 years. And then
I joined in 2001. Yeah.
That's amazing. I mean, Ithink that from a family perspective,
going to a family pizzeria, afamily restaurant, a family owned
restaurant is much nicer, butmuch better for us both emotionally
(07:31):
as well as satisfying. Andit's satisfying in many, many, many
ways. So you did the rightthing. It's all good. You guys did
the right thing. You did theright thing.
Thank you for that.
Right now we're going to getback to the agenda. Do you believe
in the mystery of subconsciouscreativity? I think. I mean, I do.
(07:52):
We know we talked a little bitbefore this started about some of
our backgrounds. And I want to100% believe in the creativity aspect
of healing and the creativity.I'm getting too excited. I can't
talk, so I'll let you talksomehow. Do you play the mishra of
subconscious creativity?
Oh, my gosh, absolutely. And Ithink that it is playing itself out
(08:17):
in all of our lives in avariety of ways. I think it played
itself out before I evenunderstood it. But today it is very
specific. As you mentioned, Ireceive. I say receive because I
don't know another word to usepoetry and words in the Middle of
the night. They've even becomesomewhat science fictiony lately.
(08:38):
But they come from somewhere.When they first started coming through,
they would use words likehearken, words that I do not use.
And so I knew it wasn'tconscious. I now, having listened
to other creators in a varietyof ways, and one of my absolute favorites
(08:59):
lately is Jon Batiste talkingabout that liminal space that perhaps
is universal, that all of uscan tap into. So I'm not certain
if it is my subconscious orsome type of universality that is
available to all of us, butnevertheless, it has changed my life
(09:19):
in extraordinary ways, and Iwould never want to lose this.
John Batiste, the jazz artist.Yes, I love him. I get what he's
gone through. I, I'm. And. Andwhat he and his family have gone
through, actually, you and hiswife. It is a profound opportunity
(09:39):
for us to really realize thatthere's more to life than. Than what
we see in front of us. I thinkit is. It's. There's. There is more
to life within us. And I thinkthat the messages that you're getting
are an amazing opportunity,especially unconsciously, is a conversation
(10:01):
that you're having with theuniverse that then you get to share
with the rest of us.
It's so profound. And I thinkinitially I was kind of in hiding
because all of this is comingin to your point. Not sure how it
meshes with the business andcommunity leadership part at that
time. And so but it, itflooded in in this torrent, and I,
(10:25):
I'm like, I know this isn'tjust for me. And so I continue to
try to find ways todisseminate it because it's guided
my life so beautifully. Yeah.
Now, did you, did this starttaking place before or after you
father died?
After, actually. So mystepfather passed away in March of
(10:46):
2020, and he had hadAlzheimer's for 12 years. And interestingly,
he was an attorney. And he andI, prior to his Alzheimer's, we.
We would. We were both verystrong willed. So, you know, we wouldn't
clash necessarily, but therewas some tension there. And once
he had Alzheimer's, certainparts of himself started to fade
(11:08):
away and his spirit started toshine through. I now know that I
was able to feel his spiritbefore he passed. I would be sitting
in my office and just feeldrawn to him, magnetized, and would
need to go visit. I went andvisited the last day he was at his
house because I just felt himcalling me. And we passed vigil by
(11:34):
his bedside for 12 days. And Iwould drive back and Forth from my
house to hospice, listening tothe instrumental from the Titanic
because I just wanted to feelit all. And he passed one evening
and I drove home after and Ipulled into my road and I said, okay,
this is where this music needsto stop. So I pulled up a new song
(11:58):
on my car radio and it pulledup the Lumineers and their song Ophelia.
But a different song startedplaying through the speakers and
it was Frank Sinatra's My Way.And I knew that it was Harvey talking
with me. I just knew. Andseven months later, my mom, who read
(12:23):
a ton of books on death,afterlife, found a medium who really
resonated with her, who had aseven month waiting list. So on Christmas
Eve that year, she got on thephone with this medium in Arizona
and she said, there is agentleman here and he is singing,
does Frank Sinatra's My Waymean anything to you? And that was
(12:48):
all I needed. That changedeverything for me. It moved from
exploration to understanding.
That's. That is amazing. Ithink that, you know, I. First and
foremost, you know, I'm sorrythat she went through that journey
with the Alzheimer's. Weunderstand. My wife and I understand
it from a personalperspective. Her father died of Louis
body dementia and we were withhim for the last 18 months. We took
(13:12):
care of him for 18 months ofhis life before he passed. So I walked
your pathway. And, and. Andit's a hard journey to walk when
you. It's a long goodbye. Andyeah, long goodbyes are. Everything's
always got easy because it's.You get that extra time. And yes,
in some respects, in some waysit is, but in other respects, it's
(13:33):
still unexpected. Unexpected.It's still a loss, it's still a grief.
So I'm sorry for your loss,but I'm really happy that you got
a message from the other sidethat said, hey, everything is cool.
Everything is cool. I mean, itjust. It's been amazing. I. Some
of the words that I receive, Iwill. Sometimes I can be in someone's
(13:58):
energy from the other side andI am translating it. So that happens
here and there, both withpeople that I know and with people
that I don't necessarily know,but I'm inspired by somehow and that
I just find it such an honorto be situated in someone else's
(14:22):
field in that way. And I lovethe ability to write from that place
so that we can all share that story.
Yeah, that's great. I thinkthat, you know, we are all connected.
We're all connected in thisuniverse and I love the idea that
you were able to reach intothat and recognize that connection.
Do you believe that grief canopen a portal to deeper truth like
(14:45):
that?
Absolutely, yes. Because Ithink when you think about all of
the layers that we acquirethroughout our lives, we just layer
ourselves with stuff, ideas,stories, and I think sometimes it's
hard to permeate those layers.The unseen is subtle, and so to permeate
those layers is challenging.But when we're in a state of grief,
(15:07):
those. Those layers almostfall off. We're at our most visceral
core selves. And so I think itreally allows the unseen to be recognized
in a way that it can be toughin our everyday lives.
It is. I know that we all havethat opportunity to touch that. I
think some of us are able totouch it a little. A little closer
(15:29):
or a little easier. Forwhatever reason, the universe allows
that opening to come about. Iknow that through this, my conversations
over the last almost six yearsnow, it's been an amazing journey
into understanding the levelsof which people can. Can do what
you do, what you've done. Butyou've reached it in a very unique
(15:52):
way because you've written3,000 poems, and you see the message.
You see them as messages,memories, or. I mean, that's a lot.
That's a lot of poetry.
It really is. And. And Inever. I struggled with what to call
it, because, you know, it is.It is poetry, but it's guidance.
(16:12):
It's there. I often call themwords because I have nothing else
to really, you know, is itgoing to be. You are a stunning poet
who has received beautifulaccolades. This, to me, and I've
been cautioned not to speaknegatively about my poetry, and so
I'm not. But it is. It isguidance. It is ethereal at times.
(16:40):
Feels like I am sometimesspeaking in a different voice. Yeah.
And when this happens andwhen. I mean, here's the thing. I
believe that when you're giventhe gift of creativity, when it comes
through the universe, and itcomes through the messages like that
(17:01):
from the universe, it's aprofound opportunity for us to really
have a deeper understanding ofhow we're connected. So regardless
of. Regardless of how you feelthe words are put down, whether you
think it's poetry. I mean,look at the changes in how poetry
is defined. Even today, youlook at more lyrical poetry, like
(17:22):
Lynn. I always mess his nameup. Sorry, Linwell. Lin Manuel Miranda.
Yes, yes.
Rally goes. Maybe I shouldsing his name and it might come out
better.
Right? No, you're so right.
He opened the door to. I mean,People now understand, for example,
(17:43):
the Constitution from adifferent perspective because he
took the opportunity forsomething that, like, I had to learn
the Constitution over and overand over again. When I was going
through the police academy,when I went to college, in the beginning,
I went through college to getdegrees in. In law enforcement. And
they drill the Constitutioninto you, but it's boring. And you
(18:03):
get Kiziko. Well, I heardabout that, but it's boring. But
Lin Manuel received that giftof creativity through lyrical poetry
and brought it to the world,and it allowed everybody to have
a better understanding and go,wow, I walk away learning something.
So I think you have theopportunity to do the same thing
(18:23):
with the way that you'representing your poetry.
Thank you for saying that,because I have recently, I would
say, over the last couple ofweeks, come to understand that. That
I. I am. I believe thatpurpose, that it's. It's. In a way,
it's sort of. I. I see it asalmost pulling in the unseen in a
way that is palatable forpeople who maybe aren't in this space.
(18:48):
So it's. It's sort of thatfirst step. Yeah. So thank you for
saying that.
Well, let's talk. Youmentioned a word. How do you define
the unseen and how has itshaped your understanding of reality?
Because I think that we, intrying to understand the unseen,
help us understand. Let's talkabout that just a second.
(19:11):
You know, I. And I'd becurious in your six years through
your podcast if that sort ofdeveloped within you, because it
continues to expand. For me, Ithink in the beginning, I saw it
as outside of myself. I saw itas this sort of amorphous something
that was happening around methat I could. Couldn't quite grab
onto. But I think I nowunderstand it to be inside myself.
(19:36):
So I now see the unseen asbeing infinite within me. And so
it's an infinite explorationwithin me that it's just an infinite
understanding. There's just.It's like an explorer when you think
of exploring, like, tangiblelands. It's. It's discovery within
(19:57):
oneself. The more I go, thedeeper I go, the more I realize everything
is connected, the more I canliterally, in the same way that I
receive words, I can also havea connection and what I would call
a conversation with almostanything. I don't use that all that
(20:23):
often, but I now, because thewords have gotten me to a place where
I now understand where that'sreceived, so I can experience it
in a variety of ways in mylife with an animal or a tree. I
am Just because we are thesame. So it is. It is finding that
(20:45):
space within myself that thatholds the thing that I'm talking
to.
Yeah. What you're talking isthe same thing Native Americans believe
in and practice. Same thingthat Tibetans, Hindi Buddhism, Zen,
they all feel the same way. Weare connected, all as one. So when
(21:07):
you ask me what my thoughtswere and in all the conversations
that I've had with individualsfrom the same. From those perspectives,
when those philosophies fromthose. Some are called religions,
but they call them morephilosophies, is that we are all
connected and that we. Once wehave the opportunity to touch that
(21:30):
universe in such a way, youare correct. It becomes part of us
and it's deep within, insideus. And when you reach the level
that the unseen becomes theseen, then it allows us a better
understanding of how we allfit into this whole stimulus.
Yes.
(21:51):
Including the trees and thebirds and the bees and the. You know,
it take. Take 5 minutes and goout and sit on a patio and just breathe
and look at the sky and lookat the clouds and just relax. And
then watch the birds, watchthe bees, watch the. The animals,
the bunnies, the. Anythingthat's in and around you and watch
(22:13):
how they interact with eachother and how they interact with
the Earth. Mother Earth.You'll see how the unseen could be
seen. It's like liquid. It'slike listening to music. Music and
dance are an internationallanguage. You can enjoy and understand
(22:35):
what music is, no matter whatwhich language it's in. You get to
feel, you get to close youreyes, and you really understand where
it's coming from. You watch adance, and especially interpretive
dance, you can see a storyunfold. So in a sense, you're seeing
the unseen even from that perspective.
Absolutely. That's sobeautiful. And I will add that I
(23:01):
also. I now walk through life.So I. Recently, I was not as excited
about the Vermont winter, andI decided that I wanted to head to.
I. I used to live in SouthFlorida, so I went to Miami for three
months last year by myself.Essentially. My husband was down
(23:25):
for a little bit. But what Ilearned is I also see myself almost
as a radar. Like I'm walkingthrough life. So when you're out
in the backyard with thebunnies, birds, and when you're walking
through the streets of Miamiwith the traffic and the noise, watching
yourself, being aware ofyourself almost as a radar in a variety
(23:49):
of different environments iswhere I. Now that's. That's where
my current discovery of theunseen lies. Is in putting myself
in new and differentconversations, because this conversation
with you is one. Because Iknow that I am expanding and unfolding
is probably a better word,unfolding with all of it.
(24:14):
That's amazing. And I thinkthat's another level of you touching
the universe in a way that itallows you to present it to us in
a very unique way. Very cool.It's just cool.
Thanks. Thank you.
You're a CEO and a boardleader, because you are now. You've
(24:38):
been presented with thismetaphysical insight into the world
and nature and the universeand how it all works and how we're
all connected and that eachand everything that we do has an
effect on those things aroundus in some form or another. How do
you integrate the metaphysicalinsights into, like, your business?
Do you do that?
Yeah. Yes, my business, it'salmost easier than the other things.
(25:02):
So business is easier becausethese are people who I have worked
with for 20 years who havewatched me go through all of this.
So it's. It's somewhat easierbecause it is our family business
and we are evolving together.I think where I had the greatest
challenge was in communityleadership. You know, most. I chair
(25:28):
a college board right now. I,in January, finished chairing the
Vermont Business Roundtable,which is a group of 120 CEOs. That
was. That was tough for me atfirst because I didn't understand
where those two thingscorrelated and. But I've now learned
(25:50):
that it doesn't need to beexplicit, meaning I still did start
a roundtable board meetingwith one of my poems, because that
is me. And that, I'm certain,had never been done before. But it
is also in my being thewholest version of myself. I am affecting
(26:16):
the spheres in which I sit.And it is. It has taken me a while
to have that trust that thereis nothing more required of me except
for being my wholest and mosttrue self in every situation. So
that I don't need to force,you know, the metaphysical ideas
necessarily in the board, inthe boardroom, unless it actually
(26:40):
is what I'm feeling in themoment in which I will.
Yeah, that makes a lot ofsense. I mean, I think that we kind
of. I think we all. To acertain perspective, especially the
way society and culture hasdeveloped us. I have a business degree
as well, so I understandbusiness management from. From that
(27:01):
perspective. It's kind ofthese things where we always have
to put a mask. I do it as acop. You have to put a mask on. You
have to wear a mask. And, youknow, we don't always get to be ourselves
the way we normally are. Wedon't have that opportunity to always
come out and be our, or whatwe truly want to say or do because
we have to look at the outsideinterest in regard to outcome of
(27:23):
what we say. And whether ornot it's going to have an effect
on so many factors, whether itbe business wise or other people's
lives, you have to stop andthink about how is this going to
affect people, how is thisgoing to affect my business, how
this is going to affect whatthe end result is. Is it going to
be positive, negative, is itgoing to be short term, long term?
(27:44):
I mean, there's so many otherthings to do. Do you, do you think
based upon you starting tointegrate kind of that within, within
that, do you think leadershipis evolving to include more soul
centered approaches? I, Ipersonally think they should.
Yeah. It's, it's actuallystriking because along these last
four years, I mean I, I have alot of, you know, sit down meetups,
(28:08):
lunches, coffees, et cetera.And those are the spaces that I would
begin to expose myself. Atfirst, what I found absolutely striking
was that 95% of the time, andI'm talking about CEOs, philanthropists
in our community, theyresonated with this. They either
(28:29):
resonated with it or ittouched something in them. So they
were incredibly interested init. I never received the oh my gosh,
pushback. If anything, theseare the people who now follow Dear
Joy Love on Instagram. Becauseas leaders we are often tasked, I
mean, my gosh, police officeras well, you are tasked with having
(28:53):
to make decisions without allof the information. And often what
we do without realizing it iswe're using, we're using the unseen,
we're using intuition, we'reusing gut instinct, we're using things
that to me are sort of thegateway to that unseen. And so leaders,
(29:14):
I actually think are morepredisposed to this in some ways
because they've always had toaccess this other part of themselves
in addition to the data andthe analysis. But so I think that
it absolutely is becoming morepresent in leadership and the more
people who can be their wholeselves unapologetically in those
(29:38):
rooms, the better it's goingto be for all of us.
I agree with that. I think, Imean, I was a sergeant and I had
a team and you know, even fromthe debt management level, that was
my team. I had to makedecisions for that team. And with
that team, no matter what wedid in each and every day, we had
(30:00):
to do that. So thank you foracknowledging that, by the way. Most
people don't understand thatcops are for like a life changing,
instantaneous decisionsometimes like that.
Yes.
And there are life and deathin those instances. So not many people,
it. Being a cop is unique fromthis perspective because when you
(30:21):
have contact with a cop, witha police officer, deputy sheriff,
a law enforcement officer,it's typically, typically you're
either a victim or you're acriminal. Typically, I mean, you
may have here and there, youmay have a thing where they come
up, say, hey, how you doing?How's life? How's things? Which I
used to do walkabouts likethat where I go into the shops and
(30:42):
meet people and sit down andtalk and kind of get community oriented.
But that's not alwaysavailable. So you either you're either
a criminal or you're a victim.So it's kind of one of those where
it, I mean, we're going to getoff on that end. But we had to learn
as a team, we had to learn howto reach that. Everything that you
(31:03):
just spoke about. We had tolearn to understand our inner intuition.
You had to learn to believe inthat. You had to learn to listen.
You had to learn to connectyour mind and your body with the
environment and those thingsaround you and the people that were
around you. So I think thatgoing that naturally into business
is a positive thing. Youmentioned wholeness. So individual
(31:31):
wholeness is a key. Do youthink there's a key to collective
transformation?
I really do. I really do.Because I think so many of us are
walking around parts ofourselves. You know, I, I, and I
say that because I was, Ireally didn't, you know, all of the
things that I now understandto be true, I didn't get or didn't
(31:54):
feel 10 years ago. And so Iwas, you know, you talk about wearing
a mask. I was wearing a mask.I was achievement after achievement
insatiably, because I didn'tfeel all that great about myself.
Something was missing. Ialways thought it was because I was
a college dropout, which Iwas. I thought that I'd failed when
(32:18):
I was 20 years old because ofmy severe anxiety and that I was
never gonna be able to sort ofoutrun that shame that I carried.
And I think so many of us, noone would ever have had any idea
that that was the case for mebecause I was still, you know, succeeding
in business and succeeding incommunity work. No one had any idea
(32:39):
what was under the surface.And I think that's true for a lot
of people. Who are walkingthrough this world. And to me, this
space of wholeness where weare able to both understand ourselves
and our connection to eachother and the world around us is
where we begin to makedecisions from a more whole place
(33:05):
and start to see each otherand collaborate more. And I think
that's where our polaritiesand divisiveness begin to go away.
I actually think it startswith the individual. I don't think
it is. You know, I talk aboutliving now from the inside out instead
of the outside in. I almostthink that's collective as well,
(33:27):
a collective necessity.
I agree with that. I thinkthat's a great approach to life in
general. Do you thinkcuriosity plays a role in personal
societal growth?
Speaking of growth, I lovethat, Michael, because. Yes. And
if I was to give one onequality of mine, now that that leads
(33:52):
me. It is that it is. I. I'mso curious about everything. I'm
curious about us right now,right, right here, what, what this
is becoming, why we arebrought together, what new insights
or creations come out of ourcollision. I'm curious about political
(34:15):
ideology. I'm curious aboutcollectivism versus individualism.
Like, I'm curious aboutmyself. Yes, Curiosity leads has
led me, and I really do thinkthat all of us operating from a space
of curiosity which can bevulnerable, enables us to learn about
(34:36):
ourselves and each other.Yeah. So great. I love that you said
that. How does it, how do you.How does that manifest in your life,
Carrie?
My life, I. I mean, it's overmy lifetime, I've evolved, evolved
immensely in regard to, numberone, an understanding of how we're
all connected. And the. I. Ihave always been a curious individual
(34:58):
since I was a child. The onething my father did teach me, I lost
him at a very young, a very. Ihadn't seen him since I was 15 because
he and my mother had split upat 17. He died in a different state.
But the things that I doremember him teaching me, one of
them was curiosity. And neverlose curiosity, because curiosity.
He was a journalist and abrilliant writer, and he taught me
(35:24):
that curiosity is amethodology for us to be able to
continue to grow and learnwithin ourselves. And he taught me
that from a very, very youngage. So that in itself stuck with
me through my life. And I'vedone everything that I can to continuously
learn. I'm continuouslylearning. It's. I'm curious about
(35:45):
this. I. Now we have aninstant computer in our hands where.
And my wife will. Wife. Mykids will tell you something will
come up. And I go, wait aMinute I gotta write that and then
I'll write it down or I'lllook it up really quick and I'll
make a note of it. And I gotlike, I don't know, I probably have
300 windows open because it'slike, okay, here's one more thing,
(36:06):
one more thing, one morething, one more thing, one more thing.
So yes, I think curiosity,people say the cliche curiosity kills
the cat. Maybe if you'recurious one too many times in the
wrong areas. Yes. Butcuriosity also opened you up to learning,
(36:27):
opens you up to growing, opensyou up to intellectually and physically
being able to experience theworld in a new and unique way. Curiosity
opens that door. So that,that's, that's my.
So beautiful. I love that. AndI'm sorry about your dad, but what
(36:49):
a gift that he gave you thatis lasting and probably something
that you've given to yourdaughters. I would guess I have.
They both do the, they, they,they give me a hard time about it,
but they follow suit.
So as is the way with parentsand children.
Well, exactly. And you know,I, I tried to, I've tried to do the
same thing for my kids. Andyou know, my kids are constantly
(37:10):
growing and they're constantlywanting to learn and you know, they've
learned, they've understoodthat the only way to really understand
life is to continue to learn.And what can makes us can learn is
the curiosity. I want to knowwhy, I want to know what, why does
this work? What is it doingfor us in all aspects? That includes
(37:33):
the ideologies you weretalking about, political environment,
the climate environment, the,the, you know, everything. However
the earth is changing. I meanthe earth, mother Earth is mad and
yes, she's major mad. What canwe do about that? That opens doors
for that. And I respect youwhen I to leave Vermont in the wintertime
(37:55):
because I grew up in Coloradoand we lived at 8, 500ft and it snowed
in June.
Oh my goodness.
So, so yeah, 30 inch snows andthings like that. And we drove as
far as we could get away untilthey said, when you said snow shovel,
they went, what's that?
Yes, that's exactly what I wasyearning for. Yes. And I'm like,
(38:18):
I need to get far enough souththat that question erupts. Yes, I
know it's lovely in certainaspects, but again, I don't know
that I'll do it again. I justcontinue to try to listen to myself
because people ask me, are yougoing to Florida again? I have absolutely
(38:39):
no idea right now because inEvery moment I'm just trying to hear
me and follow it as best I can.
Well, I. I did it because it'sjust too cold and I was tired. Cover
snow. The reality is I founddoctors down here that put me back
together. So, you know, it. Itallowed us to grow that way. So it's.
(39:03):
I couldn't find the doctors,and five doctors in Colorado said
I'd be in a wheelchair for therest of my life. So I came this way.
My sister lives down here inArizona, and I came down here and
doctors here said, yeah, wecan do that. So this is where we
stayed. So.
Yes.
Back on. Yeah. Poetry. Youhave messages that continue to guide
(39:28):
you. What's the one poem ormessage that continues to guide you?
Maybe there's one that stickswith you. And why. Why does that
stick with you so much?
I have. I have it on my phone.And it's not a poem. It is a set
of words, but it is rememberwho you are. Because I think that's
(39:53):
true of all of us. The more wecan remember who we are, the stronger
we're going to be asindividuals and as a society and
collective. And it's easy toforget who you are in moments when
you are sort of in that busyhamster wheel, which I can still
(40:14):
be in. When you are navigatingsomething that's really challenging.
And you wonder. There's no wayin this world that I'm going to find
the strength to get throughit. For me, it is just remembering
who I am and connecting withwho I am, because that's where creation
and becoming originates. Andso if I can stay connected there,
(40:35):
and if we all can stayconnected there, I think that what's
gonna make Mother Earth happy.As for us all to be connected with
our.
If you can hear me, you frozeand now you're back.
(40:56):
Oh, I'm. That I can't. Okay, good.
One second. We may have to re.I may have to ask you that again.
Because it.
That's okay. I'll give you atotally different answer.
Likely that's okay, too.
Hang on and let me just see. Ican see it too. That I'm a little
fuzzy, so hopefully it's noton. It likely is on my end in Vermont
(41:21):
because it can be. Okay. Is itstaying consistent now?
It's consistent now. And yeah,we're almost done. We're almost done.
Anyway, we'll be wrapping here.
Okay.
So it's almost done. So thatwas a brilliant answer from what.
I could hear that. But I heardabout every other word I Filled in
the rest myself. But yeah,it's probably better they couldn't
(41:44):
hear my thoughts, so.
Okay. Would you mind asking meagain so that I can get in the space?
Awesome.
I may not be able to. Oh,you're glitching again.
Oh, no. I am so sorry.
Well, that's okay. Let's seeif we can. I'm going to pause. No,
(42:09):
I don't remember the question specifically.
So I kind of do. I, I, I do.If you want me to try again.
How about we do this? BecauseI'm going to have to cut some of
that out.
Great.
So what we'll do is this. Thisis one more thing before you go.
If someone's feelingdisconnected or stuck or stuck in
(42:30):
the scene or the unseen,what's one way they can begin exploring
the unseen and help them move forward?
For me, it is sitting withyourself. Truly sitting with yourself.
I heard a lot about meditationand the things that I needed to do
(42:53):
to try to be connected. Noneof that really worked for me until
I actually found spaciousnesswithin my life. And that could mean
five minutes, it could mean ahalf an hour. But literally sitting
with yourself and feeling yourbody, feeling your sensations, hearing,
listening to yourself, that,to me, is the pathway to the unseen.
(43:18):
It is acceptance of everythingthat arises, both feeling and sensation
and thought, and justfollowing it where it goes. I think
that's what takes you to thespace of oneness and connection.
That's amazing. I think thatwe all should take that to heart
in regard to especiallyconnecting with ourselves and connecting
ourselves with the universe.This opportunity for reflection.
(43:43):
You have a lot of ways toconnect with people. Tell me how
we can reach you. And you'vegot two books and a podcast.
Yes. Thank you. So I. Mywebsite is probably the best way,
which saraspires.com, but I dohave two poetry collections available
on Amazon. I have an Instagrampage where I put poetry and some
(44:06):
thought leadership, which isDear Joy Love. And I also have the
Collecting Insight podcastwhere my partner and I just explore
what it means to be human.
I. It's a brilliant podcast.I've been listening to it. So thank
you for being a part of thiscommunity. It's you. It's great.
So everybody needs to take alisten to that and I will make sure
(44:27):
that that's in the show notesand that they have an easy way just
to click and get right to youto make it easy.
Amazing. Thank you so much, Michael.
Thank you. What an amazingjourney. What an amazing opportunity
for you to redefine yourselfand have some purpose in your life
and to move us all in theright direction. So I appreciate
that the universe connected usand thank you for being here.
(44:49):
Thank you so much for havingme. It's been an honor, truly.
This is Again, I'll make sureeverything's in the show notes so
that we got everything squaredaway for them to connect with you.
Sarah Byers reminds us thattransformation doesn't always arrive
with fanfare, sometimeswhispers in verse, in silence, in
the spaces we don'tunderstand. Her story is a testament
(45:09):
to the power of listening, andnot just others, but to the quiet
voice within. It's abouthonoring the mystery, embracing the
metaphysical, and allowinggrief to become a gateway to deeper
connection in a world thatoften values logic over intuition,
structure of a soul. Sarahinvites us to consider a new kind
of leadership, one rooted incuriosity, creativity and communication
(45:30):
with the unseen. So if youever felt a stir of something deeper,
if you ever wondered whetheror not your inner world could shape
the outer one, let thisepisode be your permission to explore,
to listen, to receive, and totrust that sometimes the most powerful
truths arrive in poetry. Sothank you Sarah.
(45:51):
Thank you so much, Michael.
Thank you everyone for that'sa wrap for today's episode. I hope
you found it inspirationalmotivation and a few new perspectives
take with you. If you enjoyedthis conversation, be sure to like
subscribe and follow us. Itreally helps us continue bringing
incredible stories andinsights. If you want to watch this
episode, head over YouTube,catch the full version. We'd love
(46:13):
to hear from you. If you haveany questions or ideas or thinking,
make a great guest, reach out.Contact us well Mike, one more thing
before you go.com thank youfor being part of one more thing
before you go Community andOne more Thing before you all go.
So have a great day, have agreat week and thank you for being
here.
Thanks for listening to thisepisode of One More Thing before
(46:33):
youe Go. Check out ourwebsite@beforeyougopodcast.com youm
can find us as well assubscribe to the program and rate
us on your favorite podcastlistening platform.
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