August 15, 2025 • 54 mins
#26- Andrew Owen- Ironstone 100k
Wanted to sit down with my friend Andrew and talk with him about his Ironstone 100k Finish. What he did to prepare, how the race went and what he thought of it.
Also touched on some of the other races hes done. He recently participated in the Run With The Deer Flies 15k taking 1st Overall. Was good catching up with him amd getting. His perspective on his Ironstone performance.
*** While talking I did mix up mid state trail and standing stone trail when referring to 1,000 steps. Though they do meet up
#ironstone #ironstone100k #100k #100miler #ultrarunning #ultraman #ultra #davidgoggins #bigfoot200
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:08):
Welcome everybody, to the Only Athletics Podcast, the show that
values hearing your stories, relieving your adventures, and
learning information that can help us improve in all aspects
of our lives. I'm your host, Dean Banco, and I
know you enjoyed today's episodeas much as I do.
All right, today I have Andrew Owens on.
(00:29):
I wanted to talk with him because he recently completed
the Ironstone 100. Ki wanted to see how he felt
about the race, you know, some details about it, how he
prepared and such. So I guess basically to start I
wanted to get to know what got you in the running and trill
running to begin with? Honestly, I mean, I ran cross
(00:55):
country in high school, kind of got out of it till about two
years ago. Actually, it would probably be
the deer flies race out at Yellow Creek.
I kind of fell in love with it after that.
But now I've just been trying toget into some ultras and most of
(01:17):
the ultras I find are just Cheryl races.
So I'm just trying to see where that takes me.
So you pretty much switched from, you know, cross country to
trail running. Do you really do any road
running at all? I incorporated.
I mean, I did Pittsburgh Marathon two years ago and then
(01:38):
after that I just kind of got into a 50K and then I've done a
couple 100 KS this year. What other ultras have you done
then since you said you did a 50K and a couple other hundred
KS? I did last trail standing which
is out at settlers cabin like where they have hell half and
(02:02):
then I did the 100K at rabid raccoon this year and then
obviously ironstone in July. Oh, which one of those hundred
KS did you like better? They all had their their pros.
I mean, Rabid was a lot more runnable and Ironstone really
(02:29):
hadn't done any technical training on any kind of
technical trail. So it was just kind of, it was
fun to get out of my element to where you can't just run the
whole time. You have to almost have to be
precise with how you're running the ironstone, just because of
(02:49):
all the technical spots that youhad.
Yeah, it's, it's one of those races, like I never participated
in it personally, but I've seen most of the course and I've
helped at aid stations and stufflike that.
I I leapfrog a couple years likefrom aid station to aid station
videoing and stuff and just being on that like mid state
(03:10):
trill alone sucks. Whether you know?
It was. It was definitely, definitely a
relief when we got to Alan Seger.
Yeah, it's like I, I know a lot of people probably don't realize
like the mid state trail, like different parts of it, it goes
through actual mid state trail, goes through the whole state of
(03:34):
PA and like one of the famous parts is that 1000 steps.
Oh crap. I forget what talent it is it
off the top of my head, but that's probably one of the most,
if not the most popular parts ofthe whole mid state trail.
I didn't even know that that waspart of mid state.
I've been there a couple times, but I never put two and two
(03:55):
together. Yeah, I always forget if like
the steps are actually part of it or once you get to the top,
but I think the stairs are part of it.
I could be wrong, somebody will blast me for it, but whatever.
So how do you generally prep nowsince you're a little bit of a
(04:16):
seasoned vet for these longer races?
I've kind of just been making itup as I go.
I mean, I should probably followa training plan, but I just been
trying to just stay about 50 to 60 miles a week, maybe a 20 mile
long run, longer if it's going to be 100K.
(04:38):
But it's been kind of making it up as I go.
What What was your longest long run before the 100 Ki?
Think for ironstone I did. I just wanted to see how far I
could run in 12 hours. So I did it at the local cross
(05:01):
country course. I think I got 52 or 53.
I mean I didn't have near as much vert but I just wanted to
see how far I could go. Well, yeah, because I mean, long
as you got time on feet, I thinkit's one of the biggest aspects
of like long distance training. Like, you know, you don't
(05:21):
necessarily like have to put in 100 miles for 100K or anything
like that per week. I mean, it helps, but just being
on your feet, being able to stand for that long periods of
time I think really is a huge factor in success.
I don't, I don't know. I mean, I don't know, 'cause the
way you work, like, and I tell people like that like nurses and
(05:44):
stuff on their feet all day longand then like me doing the
grocery stuff, like I'm on my feet all day long.
So I sort of have like an advantage where I'm not, I
guess, sitting down all day longlike a typing at a computer or
anything. Yeah.
Now, I know we talked a little bit.
(06:05):
Well, yeah, maybe more than a little bit throughout the spring
and summer. You know, you asked for some
tips and stuff like that. And I know one of the tips that
you tried out that I gave you orsuggested was a sauna suit
training. So how did that work out for you
and do you feel like it benefited you at all?
(06:26):
I think I was kind of worried about that because of Ironstone
being 20 miles on that rail trail.
So I think it helped because it just, I got heat acclimated
better than I'm sure some of thepeople.
I mean, I'm going to continue touse it just because I think it
(06:49):
helps. Now did you notice a difference
or could you notice a difference?
I know because of the when you started it say like late spring,
summer compared to like your raccoon training, did you notice
a big difference in your endurance or do you just think
maybe maybe because of the weather changes or just your
(07:13):
endurance overall in general getting better I.
Think going into Ironstone I wasa little bit better prepared.
I mean, when I was going into Rabbit, I got IT band in like
January, so kind of had to reduce it.
So I think I went a little bit under trained in the rabbit.
(07:36):
So I think going into Ironstone I was a little bit better
prepared and I went on a couple of the, I guess they would be
preview runs. So the I kind of knew what I was
getting into. Which sections did you get the
preview? We did from like irons Indian
(08:00):
steps to you are from any in steps to Alan Seeger.
So that's, that's like, well, I'm, I'm looking at the aid
station. So that's like 36 1/2 to 58.6.
So that's a pretty good haul fora training section.
I don't think it was the whole way to Alan Seeger, but I know
(08:24):
that's the section that we previewed.
Like there might have been two different runs, but we previewed
from Indian Steps to basically Alan Seeger.
Well, I guess I guess I should back up just a hair.
For those that don't know, Ironstone is the 100K as we've
(08:44):
been talking about. It's realistically what they
have listed on the website. 63.4miles with 79194 feet of
climbing and 8169 feet of descent.
So, and the race directors in them say it's flat is what, 11.5
(09:05):
miles uphill 23.7, downhill 28.1.
So I mean that that right there should give people an idea of
how varied the terrain is and maybe how hard it is, I guess,
or maybe not with all that flat.But I mean, yeah, it it could be
(09:29):
a little bit shocking to the system, I guess.
I think a lot of people went in seeing 23 hours for 100K and
then they didn't look at the course profile.
I I had heard a lot of people quit it right before Indian
steps. Now, yeah, that's again, that's
(09:50):
roughly like 36 into the race. So they're a little over half.
And as you know, having granted 17 of those first, what 21 miles
is on rail trails. So I think people go out way too
fast, way too hard on that real trail, then get caught up once,
(10:12):
you know, the trail actually starts because they see the rail
trail and you're like, oh, 17 miles, you know, I can do that.
Two, 2 1/2 hours, you know, I'llbe fine.
I'll be way ahead of the country.
Once the terrain part hits, likethe rockiness it, it's a whole
different story, isn't it? Oh yeah, I, I stayed towards the
(10:34):
back coming out of Canoe Creek and then on the real trail, I
was just constantly passing people.
See, did you, did you feel like you went too fast on the rail
trail or just ran comfortably onthe real trail?
I I wanted to try bank a little bit of time, but and I mean, I
(10:56):
stayed below my heart rate, below 160, so I didn't think I
was going to blow up. It's just a matter trying to
hold back because I knew what was coming.
But I mean it is also nice to have that time at the bank
because what you said it is what23 hour cut.
(11:17):
So if you do the first, well, we're, we're, I'm just going to
say 21 miles because it's what 4miles of Canoe Creek before you
hit the 17 rail trail. So if you do that 21 miles and
we'll say even 4 hours, you got what 19 hours to do 40 miles.
(11:40):
So that seems very doable, I guess to a lot of people.
And I think that's where the misconception of, I mean, they
tell you up front, this race is not easy, It's going to be hard,
it's going to suck. But I think that misconception
where the rail trail is going tobenefit you, but it really
(12:02):
doesn't now. I think a lot of people blew up
at the right when they got off the rail trail and then they
realized, oh, we're going into the woods now.
Yeah, because would you not agree because you're familiar
with the, the, the Lauer trail alittle bit, right?
(12:25):
Yeah. Would you agree?
Because I tell people this when they want to go visit it, it is
one of the hottest rail trails in the area because it seems the
way the the canopy is, it keeps the heat down on the trail and
then the trail radiates it back up.
So there's like, there's really no escape when it's like a hot
(12:49):
summer day. Yeah, it was pretty warm once we
got onto the rail trail. I mean, it was I was taking ice
at every state station just to try to not get overheated.
So getting getting into your getting into your strategy a
little bit, a little bit more coming into the race, what was
(13:13):
your overall strategy say for the 1st 30 miles and then like
the second-half say after dark? Somebody told me that I could
run 1414 minute miles on the rail trail and then I could do
(13:37):
20s on once I got into the mountains and up on the rocks
and I just wanted to get as muchas mid state done before it got
dark because I picked. I found two people.
(13:59):
One guy was running the wrong way and then a girl just kind of
got lost. We picked her up and got her
back on course. I just didn't want that to
happen to me. I had the GPX file so I wasn't
really worried, but I don't think a lot of people had the
GPX file to kind of guide them the whole race.
(14:22):
Having that file on your watch makes a huge difference.
Like when I go explore new places or I have like a big
race, even a a little 5K or 10 Ki always like to have that GPX
file just because if the course ain't marked right, you know
where to go in it. I don't know about yours or how
you have it set up, but say if there's a turn coming I always
(14:43):
get like a little vibration. And then, yeah, mine's kind of
set up like that. Do you pay attention to the
climbs at all? I don't know if I always
flipping back and forth on mine because I have a Garmin 9:45.
I always like to go back and look at the elevation profile
(15:05):
and see what like if I'm on a climb, like how much feet I got
left. I don't think I mean I have a
chorus apex Pro 2, think I've ever actually scrolled that.
Yeah, I don't know about the thechorus, but I know like the
Garmins on the GPX file we couldlike.
(15:26):
So the elevation profile that they have on the website, it
basically shows it on my watch. So I could look at it and be
like, all right, this climb is 400 feet for the next 3/10 of a
mile so that it like it'll countdown like, you know, 300
feet, you know, foot by foot showing me and it makes it to
(15:47):
me. It makes a huge difference when
I'm racing. So I know how to adjust.
So if it's like a quick hill, long hill type deal, you.
Guys have to look into that. Yeah, I'm sure Koros does.
You might have to set it up a little.
You know, it's one of those setting things, so hopefully
that helps you down the road a little bit more too.
(16:07):
Yeah. So how far did you get before
dark? I would have got to coach.
I was halfway between Coltrane and Indian Steps, so I was
probably 20 to 30 miles in before dark.
(16:34):
You said, Oh, you mean all right?
Yeah. Colleran.
Yeah. Colleran's what, like 27?
That's that's that one basicallythat big first real climb where
you got that view off to your it'd be your left hand side as
(16:56):
you're going up the hill. Yeah.
Yeah, that that's what that's mybuddy John's aid station should.
Have told you. Should have told you that to
give him a hard time, but did. Did you get to see that view by
chance? Oh yeah, yeah, They had a lot of
nice views before it get dark. And then then you have all the
(17:22):
the outcropp or the you have thejust little trails that go out
to a lookout. I mean, it was the middle of the
night by the time we got there, so there wasn't really anything
to look at. Now the other thing is this race
starts at, what is it, 2:00 PM? Yeah, we started at 2:00 in the
(17:44):
afternoon. So it's one of those unique
races where your body might be throwing off a little bit
because of the time start. Did you feel like you were
throwing off at all or did you have a hard time?
Most of my runs are after work, which is usually like between
4:00 and 6:00. So I mean, I think it was thrown
(18:08):
off a little bit. And then most of my long runs
are probably between 7:00 and 11:00 in the morning.
So I mean, I think I was, I'm sure there was a little bit of
shock, but I don't think it was as bad as some people.
Now throughout the night, did you have any low points at all?
(18:34):
We were just like, this just sucks.
I just want to be done. Or there's in that ultra
running, there's always that low.0.
Did you hit that at all or when was that if you did?
I, I kind of rolled my ankle probably 30 some miles in.
(18:56):
So it would have been before I got the Indian steps.
I didn't really have a low pointthere.
I know towards what was Daybreakafter.
I mean, I did a lot of the nightnavigation by myself.
I mean, I would have people thatwould come up and run up on me
or I would run up on them and then either I would keep going
(19:20):
or they would keep going. I mean, I did a lot of it by
myself. So by the time the sun came up,
I was, it wasn't a low, a reallylow point, but I was definitely,
I was definitely happy to see the sunrise.
(19:41):
Well, yeah, navigation becomes aheck of a lot easier during the
daylight, and I did. Did you feel once the sun hit or
started to come up, did you feelrejuvenated at all?
I noticed like overnight races, like as soon as that sun comes
up and other people talked aboutit, they're just like the start
of a new day and they just get so much more energy.
(20:04):
It definitely didn't hurt. I ended up one of the guys that
I had met at an aid station. He caught me.
I don't know, it's probably 6 O clock that the sun was up and
just after not really seeing anybody all night, it was nice
to have somebody to run with fora couple miles.
(20:29):
No, during the night OPS. Well the night OPS is what I
usually call running at night. What kind of light did you take
or light source did you have? I was looking at that.
I got Petzel, Petzel Swift, my 1buddy that actually kind of got
(20:52):
me into running ultras suggestedit and I it worked.
It worked well. I had two and when one would die
I'd just swap it out and I made the whole night on just two
headlamps so. Did you Do you know how many
lumens that is by chance? I think 1 might have been 800
(21:14):
and the other one might have been 1000.
Nice. Yeah, that's that's sort of on
the high end on the spectrum forheadlamps that I noticed.
Most are like 4 or 500 but me personally I like to get the
highest as I can so I don't tripand fall so like the more to me
(21:34):
that is excellent amount of lumens for a night race.
I just knew what I was going to get into and I wanted to see as
much as I. Could yeah, I also, what I do
now is I also double up a littlebit so I get a headlamp and a
waist belt. So that way the shadows are a
(21:55):
little bit different. I don't know how to explain it,
but the the way that both lightswork in tandem, the shadows
basically disappear. So you know like how your
headlamp you get a little bit ofAI guess a back shadow on rocks
and stuff where it's like a waist bolt sort of takes it
(22:15):
away. It's kind of weird.
I did a little bit of training with like a cheap Energizer
headlamp from Home Depot that I basically just put around my
waist. But once I got the iron stamina
I wanted to make sure I had enough to last the night, so I
(22:36):
didn't really run with the anything around my waist.
Yeah, it's, I mean, that's just a little thing I picked up
because I I'm also one of those people that I don't know about
you because if you hear something in the woods, I'm
always like twisting my head at night, you know, you never know
what you're hopefully it's just deer and stuff, but I always
(22:57):
look around. So at least like my waist belt
is focused on the trail the whole time where it's like my
head. I could sort of, it's just, I
don't know, it's one of those weird things I'll have to show
you in person one day. Now Speaking of the woods, did
you see any critters on the course at all, like snakes or
(23:19):
deer? Bear.
We actually walked up on a timber rattler.
There was a group of us and it almost looked like A to go
container because he was coiled.And then as we got closer, like,
oh, OK, we're you stay here and we're going to go that way.
(23:40):
And then I, we saw probably two or three, but there was a lot of
sheds near the trail. So I I know they're there, but
we didn't really see as many as I thought we would.
Was that were they all at night or they daylight?
(24:02):
A lot of them were like right after nightfall, like within
probably 2 hours of nightfall. Once it got overnight, I really
didn't see too much. Yeah, so they're still trying to
get that radiant heat from the rocks and stuff before they have
(24:22):
to den out for the night. That that that'd be one of my
fears. Running iron stone with those
like big Rocky Hill sections is not, you know, getting stepping
on a snake that you don't see because it's night time and you
don't get that extra like couplefoot of view in front of you.
But thank thankfully you didn't get bit or nobody got bit.
(24:46):
Yeah, I didn't hear of anybody getting bit and I was kind of
worried about that. I don't know.
I just tried to be cautious, butI still wanted to make forward
progress. Yeah, snake bitings, and it was
more so like rattlesnakes. I think they're so rare in PA.
There might be like 1 every like5-10 years, if that.
(25:10):
It's like getting attacked by a bear.
It's one of those rare things, but because most people in the
woods are not screwing around enough to aggravate them, I
guess. Yeah, on the 1 preview run,
Patrick, the Co race director, said that they're not going to
(25:31):
come after you like you have to provoke them or step on them
like they're not. They know that.
They know that you're too big, so they're not going to waste
their venom on you. Yeah, I'm, I'm actually more
concerned about copperheads thanrattlesnakes because it seems
like copperheads are the, the, Idon't know, for lack of better
(25:55):
terms, the a holes with the snake family in PA.
I've heard they're really aggressive.
I haven't. I haven't run up on one yet, but
I heard that they can get aggressive.
Yeah, but I've actually seen a lot on rail trails like Ghost
Town Trail. There's, there was a quite a few
I think last year, but hey, at least I saw them on my bike and
(26:19):
not on my foot. So now what did you use for like
nutrition and hydration during the race?
I basically fueled. I had two soft flasks with
Tailwind and then I had a bladder with just straight
(26:42):
water. And then I've never had any
issues. But I heard people who've had
issues. I mean, I did it with the Nerds
gummies and gummy bears. And then I know towards the end
I was taking in some broth once we got into Alan Seeger.
(27:03):
I mean most of it was is Nerd clusters and gummy bears.
So some more sugar then say likeprotein and carbs then?
Yeah, and it's, it's worked for me.
I mean, I'm, I'm always open to try new things, but I mean, it's
always, it's always worked. I, I would take two Tums at
(27:28):
every aid station just so that my stomach didn't decide to
turn. I think I'm going to start
putting that into practice on every ultra from here on out.
Yeah, it's I tell people everybody's different so like
your food needs and what you need and what you crave during
(27:49):
racist individualized. So like giving tips to somebody,
Sir, somebody today on the Altoona PA runners asking about
tips and stuff. And I was like I said something
about I can help you, but the intangibles like the food and
nutrition and stuff you have to learn on your own because I can
tell you what works for me. But your stomach and your body
(28:10):
is completely different. You know, one mile in, even 10
miles in compared to mine. So it's such a weird learning
process in the ultra world, I guess to learn.
Yeah, I got tagged in that too. I just didn't really know what
to tell them. I just kind of have to just
(28:32):
experiment and find out what works.
Yeah, and do it in training. So overall, how did you like
compare to the like the other courses Juria like Raccoon and
stuff like that and Last Man Standing, how was the course for
(28:54):
marking like the flags and stufflike that?
For the most part it wasn't bad.I mean, once you go on the the
mid state, you were just fallingthe blazes, but some of the
trees were either had fallen down or just kind of had to pay
(29:15):
attention. You couldn't really cruise
through there between the rocks and then just making sure that
you saw that blaze on the tree. Now, do they have the I?
I know sometimes like Eastern and World's End, they have the
ribbons with a reflective. Do they have any of those up
(29:37):
there? Yeah, they had ribbons.
Basically on any kind of turn that wasn't obvious, they would
throw up. They would throw up the ribbon
just to give you an idea. OK, you're going to make a
little last. You're going to make it right.
Now Mid state trail itself, I'm drawing a blank here.
(30:02):
What because I run so many like Laurel Highlands is yellow and
some other trails or different colors?
What color is the blaze on the Mid State Trail?
I think it was orange, I think. Yeah, it's, it's probably like
one of those things that you really don't think to remember.
(30:25):
I it's hard for me because like I said, running so many
different trails, DC and org, you know, uses some different
ones. So it's, I was just always
curious. I don't have to, I'm going to
have to look into it now becauseI'm just one of those curious
things. But did you have a hard time
picking that color up at night at all?
No, I mean between that and thenjust every once in a while
(30:48):
looking at the GPX file on my watch, I mean I had no issues.
I got off the trail once, but I mean I I was able to see OK, I
don't see any markings and then just kind of backtrack to where
the last place I saw a marking and then got rated again.
(31:13):
So how were the 8 stations this year at Ironstone and which one
was your favorite if you could remember?
I mean, I think did all the aid stations were great.
I mean, the volunteers were great.
I tried not to. I don't know, I have a problem.
I don't like to just stay at theaid station.
(31:36):
Like I just like to get what I need and just keep going.
But I've been, I think, I think the race is well put together
and then it's reflected in the aid stations because everybody
wants to help. I know when we were on the rail
(31:57):
trail, every every aid station we went to, somebody was trying
to refill your flasks and get you ice.
And I mean I, I mean they're topnotch, I think.
Yeah, usually I, I like to tell people PA has the best aid
(32:19):
stations in my opinion out of all the United States, just
because I think our people when they volunteered an aid station,
they know they're giving up their time and their day, but
they're doing it willingly and they actually are there wanting
to be there. They're not like forced to be
there or paid to be there. They, they're volunteering and
(32:41):
they, to me, they truly have thebest intentions of helping the
runner in any way possible. So so when you go out of state,
not to bash other states, but it's just like this.
This doesn't have the PA feel. It was definitely nice to get to
(33:02):
the aid station for Indian Stepsand see my buddy Steve Pagano
there. I mean, that was kind of a that
was kind of uplifting. And then once we got the Alan
Seeger, seeing Stephanie in themfrom Johnstown Running Club, so
it was kind of a pickup right atthe end.
(33:24):
Now you're talking about seeing people.
Did you know a lot of people on the course or did you make any
friends and stuff like that along the day?
I made Oh yeah, during the day, and then some of the people that
I ran the preview runs with kindof made friends with them.
(33:49):
I mean, I, I think the trail community as a whole is really
welcoming. You pretty much can walked up in
any any trail race. I want to say this again for PA
races, since I do have a little experience outside of PA that
you can pretty much talk to any person at APH trail race,
(34:12):
whether it be north-south, east,West and just start talking to
them like you're like next door neighbors or your family.
And it just, everybody seems to like just fit right in like your
brother, sister, mother, father,whatever you want to say.
So it is a really nice communitythat PA has.
(34:32):
Yeah, I've only run just those couple ultras, but everybody
just seems to be they want to help you and they're cheering
you on as much as you're cheering them on.
And it's just a good environment, I think.
Yeah, I think it's just a good atmosphere overall, just how we
(34:53):
treat people and, you know, try to treat others out there.
Like, like you said, you guys help the woman, you know, get
back on the trail where you go find the right way and stuff
like that. Just like one of those things
that you know, other areas may not be so inclined to do.
I mean, most of the trail running community, I would say
(35:13):
99% would. But in the heat of the battle,
it's sometimes you know, people get caught up and aren't always
the nicest. Now, would you say you pushed
yourself a lot or did you hold back at all?
Or you know, what would you have, I guess?
(35:35):
Did you leave anything out there?
I guess? I kind of got conservative once
I rolled my ankle. Like I had no quitting me.
I wanted to. I was going to run until they
either pulled me for time or I rolled my ankle worse.
(36:00):
Let's see, trying to think what else I wanted to say.
Did you? Yeah.
Did you take poles or anything like that at all?
I had, yeah, I got a cheap pair from it's the outdoor store
(36:21):
right next to Target in Altina. I'm trying brush, brush.
You drawing a blank. Oh, Appalachian Trill or
Appalachian Run Company? No, it was.
I can't think of what the name is called.
I'm trying to think used to be Gander Mountain.
Oh, I thought, is that the duck?Is there a Dunham's over there?
(36:43):
Or Dicks. Nah, it's that might have been I
can't remember. I got it one.
Of the sporting. I can't think of what it's
called. Yeah, it's like some sporting
goods, not like Sporting's warehouse or something, but I I
know what you mean now. It it is.
It is like a Gander Mountain Cabela's type building.
(37:05):
Is that the one you're? Talking about, yeah.
And I can't think of what it's. I can't think of what it's
called. Yeah, it's been a couple years
since I've been to that store. So they're there, Dicks.
I'll see. Did you have more like were they
the collapsible ones or were they like the folding ones?
(37:27):
No, I had the ones that fold that I can just put in the back
of my vest all. Right.
How did you mentally stay focused during the whole race?
I just once I got past Indian steps, I knew that I really only
had two more climbs and I just really wanted that flannel.
(37:54):
It isn't. It is nice.
Was it? Wait, was it Gray and blue this
year? I think so.
I think Ben was wearing it at Laurel this year, you know,
showing it off a little bit, if I, if I'm not mistaken.
I could be, but I'm pretty sure that was, yeah, it was like a
more grey than it was like the Blue Square.
(38:17):
I don't know what you call that.So when you're when you're
running in general or racing, what is your like sort of back
during what I just asked you like what is your motivation or
why to why you run and race in general?
(38:41):
I mean, I have teenage kids, so I just want to, I want to teach
them that. I mean, you can do hard things
like it might suck in the moment, but you can nothing.
Nothing that's worth doing is going to be easy.
(39:01):
So have they got in the running yet?
My son runs cross country. He's actually the reason I got
started back in the running. He started cross country and I
figured, oh, I should get into shape.
And it just kind of snowballed from there.
Now here, this might be the mostimportant question that I'm
(39:24):
going to ask you. Who's faster right now?
Probably me. He's not into shape for cross
country yet. I mean, I'm not saying he won't
pass me up once he gets through camp in a couple races, but I, I
think it's probably me right now.
(39:45):
I. Mean no knock on him, but you
know you got do you guys have that like father son rivalry
going at all or? No, he's pretty laid back.
He kind of doesn't get too excited about it.
Well, I do look forward to meeting him and seeing him out
there and racing him sometime. You know, maybe guys could do
(40:06):
like a some kind of like relay or it'd be cool to see you guys
do like a relay or something. Yeah, I'll have to.
I'm going to have to try to talkhim into that.
Maybe I'll get some of him and his cross country buddies.
So what drew you to Ironstone tobegin with?
(40:31):
Honestly I would just found it and I was running with the
Altoona running club and the oneguy that ran it last year just
told me how crazy it was and I just figured I want to see how
bad it is. Maybe it's not as bad as he
(40:52):
says. Did he prove now your
expectations? Were they proven right or wrong
in the end? I mean, it was definitely
difficult. Like you got to, if you're going
to deal with that, that much tactical running, I mean, you're
going to have to be mentally strong because it's going to
(41:14):
wear on you after probably 30 miles or whatever it was that we
had to run on that. No.
I remember asking you because I saw you at Deer Flies probably
two or three weeks after you finished Ironstone.
But I asked you about your shoe changes, if you had any shoe
(41:35):
changes, and then if you change shoes on the rail trail before
you switch to the trail trail part.
I couldn't. I couldn't remember what your
answer was. So did you change shoes at all?
I probably should have, but I didn't.
Like. I think next year I'll probably
(41:56):
go with a road shoe until I get to Alfreda before we go into the
woods, just because I think justa shoe change because by the
time I was done my feet are justdestroyed.
Yeah, that rail trail port for 17 miles on actual like trail
(42:20):
shoes can really beat you up a little bit.
So you didn't, you didn't changeshoes or socks at all throughout
the whole night? No, I didn't.
I should have, but I didn't. I I packed them, but I just
didn't use. I just didn't.
I don't know why. I just must have been locked in.
(42:44):
Sometimes it's better not to because then you open up the
possibilities of like saying blisters or something like that.
They start to throb a little bitmore once the pressure's off.
Did you did you get any blistersor anything from wearing the
same shoes then? I think I had a couple that they
weren't nothing. There was nothing terrible.
(43:06):
Well, that, that's always a goodsign that your training went
pretty well because, well, the course itself is pretty dry,
isn't it? I don't.
There's really no like real wet spots or stream cross.
There was no stream crossings oranything.
I guess they just made it up with all the rock that they had
there. Yeah, I, I thought it was a
(43:28):
pretty dry course. I mean, I'm trying to remember
like all the courses running through my head.
I'm trying to remember the wholecourse.
But yeah, I thought it was a drycourse.
How did your recovery go from Ironstone and what did you do to
recover? I, I know when I got home I
(43:49):
threw the recovery boots on and then I think I took a day or two
off and then it was just kind ofeasy run, just easy running,
just trying to get back into training, not really pushing
hard. Did you have any special meal
and celebration? I just had, I think I had a
(44:13):
pulled pork because they had a barbecue joint there at the
finish. Some sometimes I ask that
because sometimes people have like a celebratory like cake or
pie or, you know, big, they go somewhere fancy, get a big old
steak. Me, I'm just like, just give me
some cheap Walmart pizza and I'll be fine.
(44:35):
Yeah, I've heard a lot of peopleafter a big race they can't eat
anything. But by the time I was done, I
just whatever they had sounded great.
Yeah, that's, that's one of those signs that lets you know
that you really did a good job and you, you know, you really
did a good effort if you're, youknow, if you're willing to eat
(44:56):
whatever. So what are you looking forward
to in the future as far as like races or running in general?
Kind of right now I'm just kind of trying to find 100 Miller.
I mean, I thought about trying to get into Eastern states, so
(45:17):
maybe try Eastern states next year.
Probably try Rabid. Rabid, the 100 Miller.
Yeah, I think they're they're what they're moving rabid or it
is moved already announced to like May or something like that.
Yeah, it's going to be a completely different ball game
than being in March. Yeah, that's it's always hit or
(45:42):
miss because that what was it last year, the year before it
was, maybe it was two years ago it was like 30° or something and
icy and people had like the icicles on their eyes.
So maybe if since they moved it'll be a little bit warmer but
not too hot. I just know it poured on my
third lap. It just poured or probably most
(46:06):
of the lap it just, it just poured.
Yeah, I was done by then. Yeah, because didn't you do the
haves? Yeah, it was, it was poured on
my way home from like the pit. Well, I call it from Pittsburgh
way, but yeah, I was like, yeah,I'm glad I'm not out there right
now. I mean, I hate to say that, but
(46:29):
I I was kind of laughing becauseI I wouldn't have wanted to been
out there on some of the like that what I guess where the
hills are like after you cross that Creek and you first start
out like that little next two miles to the finish.
I wouldn't have wanted to been on there when it was pouring
down rain. Yeah, it wasn't fun.
(46:53):
Now, is there anything you're looking to improve on in like
the near future down the road asfar as like running like any
aspect, like you know, gear, endurance, anything like that?
I'd like to. Work on some speed I think.
(47:16):
I think I have a decent endurance built, I just want to
try to get a little faster. Well.
Since you said speed, how do youplan on doing actor?
Do you have an idea of what you want to, you know, go about
accomplishing that? I think I live right down from
(47:42):
Cambria Heights track so I mighttry to do some track workouts
and fart licks. A lot of hill work.
Well, I will say, I mean, we didn't really touch on it per
SE, but like as I said, I saw you deer flies in somebody did
win the 15K if I don't remember.Yeah, when he handed me that
(48:06):
bowl. I.
I didn't think so because I started basically not last, but
I mean I was towards the back and then I was looking at times
and I was like 3 minutes slower than last year.
I mean it helped it AJ did the 25 but.
(48:32):
Hey, take it when you can. That's what everybody tells me.
Was that, was that your? Well, I don't, I don't want to
pry too much, but was that the first race you won at all or did
you win any other races? No, that's the first race I won.
I finished second at the 1st Responders 5K that they had in
(48:57):
September down at Lakemont Park.But yeah, that was the first
win. Well, hopefully there's more,
but I. Mean well, Congrats, man.
That's it's a huge like it's a huge accomplishment.
The winner race in general, no matter what distance, whether
it's a one mile 100, mile 200 Miller, you know, it doesn't
(49:18):
matter if there's like 50 Jim Walmsley's that were there the
year before and they don't show up this year.
Like winning a race to me is important and it's such a huge
accomplishment no matter what the, you know, like you said,
you ran like what, 3 minutes slower or or yeah, yeah, like
(49:39):
that doesn't matter. Like winning the race and being
happy with your performance is ultimately what matter.
Well, winning isn't everything, but you know, once you won and
you can say 1, like it's just such a cool thing to say.
Yeah, I'm going into that. I didn't even sign up.
(50:01):
I wasn't even pre registered. I just kind of on a whim they
have race. I signed up and wasn't really
going to go crazy. Just kind of wanted to run it
again because last year I rolledmy ankle.
So I was just kind of redemptionthat I came out with no rolled
ankles. And I mean, the wind was just
(50:21):
icing on the cake. Did you did you ever do the 25 K
out there? No, I thought about it this
year, maybe next year. I'll just try to chase AJ down
if he doesn't. All right, because we got we got
to challenge you to do the 25 K next year because it's it's I
(50:43):
want to say it's more the back half which you miss in the 15 to
the 25. I will say it's harder, but it's
more fun and when you finish like the challenge of you
finishing it and just that back half, like crossing the
spillway, like both directions and stuff like that, it's just a
(51:06):
whole different atmosphere compared well compared to the
15K. Yeah, I'm probably going to sign
up for that 25K next year just to just to see, just to see it.
I'm not saying that I'll be at the 25 next year again, but
(51:29):
we'll see how things go. At least I'll be there in some
fashion. Maybe just the 8K again so I
could take videos and stuff. Anything else you want to add by
chance about Ironstone or other races?
Well, if you like rocks and you like a lot of elevation once
(51:52):
your legs are dead, sign up for Ironstein.
All right, so I got one last thing I want to ask or get from
you before we wrap this up. Do you have any tips for new
people in trail running or running in general?
Or a tip that you just want to share that you know worked for
(52:15):
you so the masses can hear? I've just been, I've been trying
to pull people over to trail running, just telling them like
don't have to go as fast. If you go to an ultra, look at
all the food you get at the aid stations.
You don't have to be fast. And just for the new runners, I
(52:37):
mean, just don't do too much toofast.
Get hurt and then just swear offthe sport.
Just kind of ease into it. You're not going to be the
fastest when you start. I mean, I can remember when I
started back up, it was just a mile at a time.
(52:59):
So you just kind of have to takethe little wins and just go from
there. Nice.
That's that's good, solid advice.
All right, on that note, that's all I had for today.
Yeah, so I think that's a prettygood ending point for the
(53:20):
conversation. So Andrew, I thank you for
jumping on and doing this. I always enjoy seeing you out
there. I hope to see you again soon.
And congratulations on the Ironstone, the rabbit raccoon
last man standing in your first win at deer flies this year.
Yeah, and thanks for having me on.
(53:42):
I mean, it was nice to catch up.All right, see you soon.
Yep. Thank you for listening to the
episode today. If you or anyone you know has
any amazing stories, adventures,or interesting information you
or they may want to share, please reach out to me anytime.
(54:04):
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Only on Athletics is located. Take a second and hit the follow
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Welcome everybody, to the Only Athletics Podcast, the show that
values hearing your stories, relieving your adventures, and
learning information that can help us improve in all aspects
of our lives. I'm your host, Dean Banco, and I
know you enjoyed today's episodeas much as I do.
All right, today I have Andrew Owens on.
(00:29):
I wanted to talk with him because he recently completed
the Ironstone 100. Ki wanted to see how he felt
about the race, you know, some details about it, how he
prepared and such. So I guess basically to start I
wanted to get to know what got you in the running and trill
running to begin with? Honestly, I mean, I ran cross
(00:55):
country in high school, kind of got out of it till about two
years ago. Actually, it would probably be
the deer flies race out at Yellow Creek.
I kind of fell in love with it after that.
But now I've just been trying toget into some ultras and most of
(01:17):
the ultras I find are just Cheryl races.
So I'm just trying to see where that takes me.
So you pretty much switched from, you know, cross country to
trail running. Do you really do any road
running at all? I incorporated.
I mean, I did Pittsburgh Marathon two years ago and then
(01:38):
after that I just kind of got into a 50K and then I've done a
couple 100 KS this year. What other ultras have you done
then since you said you did a 50K and a couple other hundred
KS? I did last trail standing which
is out at settlers cabin like where they have hell half and
(02:02):
then I did the 100K at rabid raccoon this year and then
obviously ironstone in July. Oh, which one of those hundred
KS did you like better? They all had their their pros.
I mean, Rabid was a lot more runnable and Ironstone really
(02:29):
hadn't done any technical training on any kind of
technical trail. So it was just kind of, it was
fun to get out of my element to where you can't just run the
whole time. You have to almost have to be
precise with how you're running the ironstone, just because of
(02:49):
all the technical spots that youhad.
Yeah, it's, it's one of those races, like I never participated
in it personally, but I've seen most of the course and I've
helped at aid stations and stufflike that.
I I leapfrog a couple years likefrom aid station to aid station
videoing and stuff and just being on that like mid state
(03:10):
trill alone sucks. Whether you know?
It was. It was definitely, definitely a
relief when we got to Alan Seger.
Yeah, it's like I, I know a lot of people probably don't realize
like the mid state trail, like different parts of it, it goes
through actual mid state trail, goes through the whole state of
(03:34):
PA and like one of the famous parts is that 1000 steps.
Oh crap. I forget what talent it is it
off the top of my head, but that's probably one of the most,
if not the most popular parts ofthe whole mid state trail.
I didn't even know that that waspart of mid state.
I've been there a couple times, but I never put two and two
(03:55):
together. Yeah, I always forget if like
the steps are actually part of it or once you get to the top,
but I think the stairs are part of it.
I could be wrong, somebody will blast me for it, but whatever.
So how do you generally prep nowsince you're a little bit of a
(04:16):
seasoned vet for these longer races?
I've kind of just been making itup as I go.
I mean, I should probably followa training plan, but I just been
trying to just stay about 50 to 60 miles a week, maybe a 20 mile
long run, longer if it's going to be 100K.
(04:38):
But it's been kind of making it up as I go.
What What was your longest long run before the 100 Ki?
Think for ironstone I did. I just wanted to see how far I
could run in 12 hours. So I did it at the local cross
(05:01):
country course. I think I got 52 or 53.
I mean I didn't have near as much vert but I just wanted to
see how far I could go. Well, yeah, because I mean, long
as you got time on feet, I thinkit's one of the biggest aspects
of like long distance training. Like, you know, you don't
(05:21):
necessarily like have to put in 100 miles for 100K or anything
like that per week. I mean, it helps, but just being
on your feet, being able to stand for that long periods of
time I think really is a huge factor in success.
I don't, I don't know. I mean, I don't know, 'cause the
way you work, like, and I tell people like that like nurses and
(05:44):
stuff on their feet all day longand then like me doing the
grocery stuff, like I'm on my feet all day long.
So I sort of have like an advantage where I'm not, I
guess, sitting down all day longlike a typing at a computer or
anything. Yeah.
Now, I know we talked a little bit.
(06:05):
Well, yeah, maybe more than a little bit throughout the spring
and summer. You know, you asked for some
tips and stuff like that. And I know one of the tips that
you tried out that I gave you orsuggested was a sauna suit
training. So how did that work out for you
and do you feel like it benefited you at all?
(06:26):
I think I was kind of worried about that because of Ironstone
being 20 miles on that rail trail.
So I think it helped because it just, I got heat acclimated
better than I'm sure some of thepeople.
I mean, I'm going to continue touse it just because I think it
(06:49):
helps. Now did you notice a difference
or could you notice a difference?
I know because of the when you started it say like late spring,
summer compared to like your raccoon training, did you notice
a big difference in your endurance or do you just think
maybe maybe because of the weather changes or just your
(07:13):
endurance overall in general getting better I.
Think going into Ironstone I wasa little bit better prepared.
I mean, when I was going into Rabbit, I got IT band in like
January, so kind of had to reduce it.
So I think I went a little bit under trained in the rabbit.
(07:36):
So I think going into Ironstone I was a little bit better
prepared and I went on a couple of the, I guess they would be
preview runs. So the I kind of knew what I was
getting into. Which sections did you get the
preview? We did from like irons Indian
(08:00):
steps to you are from any in steps to Alan Seeger.
So that's, that's like, well, I'm, I'm looking at the aid
station. So that's like 36 1/2 to 58.6.
So that's a pretty good haul fora training section.
I don't think it was the whole way to Alan Seeger, but I know
(08:24):
that's the section that we previewed.
Like there might have been two different runs, but we previewed
from Indian Steps to basically Alan Seeger.
Well, I guess I guess I should back up just a hair.
For those that don't know, Ironstone is the 100K as we've
(08:44):
been talking about. It's realistically what they
have listed on the website. 63.4miles with 79194 feet of
climbing and 8169 feet of descent.
So, and the race directors in them say it's flat is what, 11.5
(09:05):
miles uphill 23.7, downhill 28.1.
So I mean that that right there should give people an idea of
how varied the terrain is and maybe how hard it is, I guess,
or maybe not with all that flat.But I mean, yeah, it it could be
(09:29):
a little bit shocking to the system, I guess.
I think a lot of people went in seeing 23 hours for 100K and
then they didn't look at the course profile.
I I had heard a lot of people quit it right before Indian
steps. Now, yeah, that's again, that's
(09:50):
roughly like 36 into the race. So they're a little over half.
And as you know, having granted 17 of those first, what 21 miles
is on rail trails. So I think people go out way too
fast, way too hard on that real trail, then get caught up once,
(10:12):
you know, the trail actually starts because they see the rail
trail and you're like, oh, 17 miles, you know, I can do that.
Two, 2 1/2 hours, you know, I'llbe fine.
I'll be way ahead of the country.
Once the terrain part hits, likethe rockiness it, it's a whole
different story, isn't it? Oh yeah, I, I stayed towards the
(10:34):
back coming out of Canoe Creek and then on the real trail, I
was just constantly passing people.
See, did you, did you feel like you went too fast on the rail
trail or just ran comfortably onthe real trail?
I I wanted to try bank a little bit of time, but and I mean, I
(10:56):
stayed below my heart rate, below 160, so I didn't think I
was going to blow up. It's just a matter trying to
hold back because I knew what was coming.
But I mean it is also nice to have that time at the bank
because what you said it is what23 hour cut.
(11:17):
So if you do the first, well, we're, we're, I'm just going to
say 21 miles because it's what 4miles of Canoe Creek before you
hit the 17 rail trail. So if you do that 21 miles and
we'll say even 4 hours, you got what 19 hours to do 40 miles.
(11:40):
So that seems very doable, I guess to a lot of people.
And I think that's where the misconception of, I mean, they
tell you up front, this race is not easy, It's going to be hard,
it's going to suck. But I think that misconception
where the rail trail is going tobenefit you, but it really
(12:02):
doesn't now. I think a lot of people blew up
at the right when they got off the rail trail and then they
realized, oh, we're going into the woods now.
Yeah, because would you not agree because you're familiar
with the, the, the Lauer trail alittle bit, right?
(12:25):
Yeah. Would you agree?
Because I tell people this when they want to go visit it, it is
one of the hottest rail trails in the area because it seems the
way the the canopy is, it keeps the heat down on the trail and
then the trail radiates it back up.
So there's like, there's really no escape when it's like a hot
(12:49):
summer day. Yeah, it was pretty warm once we
got onto the rail trail. I mean, it was I was taking ice
at every state station just to try to not get overheated.
So getting getting into your getting into your strategy a
little bit, a little bit more coming into the race, what was
(13:13):
your overall strategy say for the 1st 30 miles and then like
the second-half say after dark? Somebody told me that I could
run 1414 minute miles on the rail trail and then I could do
(13:37):
20s on once I got into the mountains and up on the rocks
and I just wanted to get as muchas mid state done before it got
dark because I picked. I found two people.
(13:59):
One guy was running the wrong way and then a girl just kind of
got lost. We picked her up and got her
back on course. I just didn't want that to
happen to me. I had the GPX file so I wasn't
really worried, but I don't think a lot of people had the
GPX file to kind of guide them the whole race.
(14:22):
Having that file on your watch makes a huge difference.
Like when I go explore new places or I have like a big
race, even a a little 5K or 10 Ki always like to have that GPX
file just because if the course ain't marked right, you know
where to go in it. I don't know about yours or how
you have it set up, but say if there's a turn coming I always
(14:43):
get like a little vibration. And then, yeah, mine's kind of
set up like that. Do you pay attention to the
climbs at all? I don't know if I always
flipping back and forth on mine because I have a Garmin 9:45.
I always like to go back and look at the elevation profile
(15:05):
and see what like if I'm on a climb, like how much feet I got
left. I don't think I mean I have a
chorus apex Pro 2, think I've ever actually scrolled that.
Yeah, I don't know about the thechorus, but I know like the
Garmins on the GPX file we couldlike.
(15:26):
So the elevation profile that they have on the website, it
basically shows it on my watch. So I could look at it and be
like, all right, this climb is 400 feet for the next 3/10 of a
mile so that it like it'll countdown like, you know, 300
feet, you know, foot by foot showing me and it makes it to
(15:47):
me. It makes a huge difference when
I'm racing. So I know how to adjust.
So if it's like a quick hill, long hill type deal, you.
Guys have to look into that. Yeah, I'm sure Koros does.
You might have to set it up a little.
You know, it's one of those setting things, so hopefully
that helps you down the road a little bit more too.
(16:07):
Yeah. So how far did you get before
dark? I would have got to coach.
I was halfway between Coltrane and Indian Steps, so I was
probably 20 to 30 miles in before dark.
(16:34):
You said, Oh, you mean all right?
Yeah. Colleran.
Yeah. Colleran's what, like 27?
That's that's that one basicallythat big first real climb where
you got that view off to your it'd be your left hand side as
(16:56):
you're going up the hill. Yeah.
Yeah, that that's what that's mybuddy John's aid station should.
Have told you. Should have told you that to
give him a hard time, but did. Did you get to see that view by
chance? Oh yeah, yeah, They had a lot of
nice views before it get dark. And then then you have all the
(17:22):
the outcropp or the you have thejust little trails that go out
to a lookout. I mean, it was the middle of the
night by the time we got there, so there wasn't really anything
to look at. Now the other thing is this race
starts at, what is it, 2:00 PM? Yeah, we started at 2:00 in the
(17:44):
afternoon. So it's one of those unique
races where your body might be throwing off a little bit
because of the time start. Did you feel like you were
throwing off at all or did you have a hard time?
Most of my runs are after work, which is usually like between
4:00 and 6:00. So I mean, I think it was thrown
(18:08):
off a little bit. And then most of my long runs
are probably between 7:00 and 11:00 in the morning.
So I mean, I think I was, I'm sure there was a little bit of
shock, but I don't think it was as bad as some people.
Now throughout the night, did you have any low points at all?
(18:34):
We were just like, this just sucks.
I just want to be done. Or there's in that ultra
running, there's always that low.0.
Did you hit that at all or when was that if you did?
I, I kind of rolled my ankle probably 30 some miles in.
(18:56):
So it would have been before I got the Indian steps.
I didn't really have a low pointthere.
I know towards what was Daybreakafter.
I mean, I did a lot of the nightnavigation by myself.
I mean, I would have people thatwould come up and run up on me
or I would run up on them and then either I would keep going
(19:20):
or they would keep going. I mean, I did a lot of it by
myself. So by the time the sun came up,
I was, it wasn't a low, a reallylow point, but I was definitely,
I was definitely happy to see the sunrise.
(19:41):
Well, yeah, navigation becomes aheck of a lot easier during the
daylight, and I did. Did you feel once the sun hit or
started to come up, did you feelrejuvenated at all?
I noticed like overnight races, like as soon as that sun comes
up and other people talked aboutit, they're just like the start
of a new day and they just get so much more energy.
(20:04):
It definitely didn't hurt. I ended up one of the guys that
I had met at an aid station. He caught me.
I don't know, it's probably 6 O clock that the sun was up and
just after not really seeing anybody all night, it was nice
to have somebody to run with fora couple miles.
(20:29):
No, during the night OPS. Well the night OPS is what I
usually call running at night. What kind of light did you take
or light source did you have? I was looking at that.
I got Petzel, Petzel Swift, my 1buddy that actually kind of got
(20:52):
me into running ultras suggestedit and I it worked.
It worked well. I had two and when one would die
I'd just swap it out and I made the whole night on just two
headlamps so. Did you Do you know how many
lumens that is by chance? I think 1 might have been 800
(21:14):
and the other one might have been 1000.
Nice. Yeah, that's that's sort of on
the high end on the spectrum forheadlamps that I noticed.
Most are like 4 or 500 but me personally I like to get the
highest as I can so I don't tripand fall so like the more to me
(21:34):
that is excellent amount of lumens for a night race.
I just knew what I was going to get into and I wanted to see as
much as I. Could yeah, I also, what I do
now is I also double up a littlebit so I get a headlamp and a
waist belt. So that way the shadows are a
(21:55):
little bit different. I don't know how to explain it,
but the the way that both lightswork in tandem, the shadows
basically disappear. So you know like how your
headlamp you get a little bit ofAI guess a back shadow on rocks
and stuff where it's like a waist bolt sort of takes it
(22:15):
away. It's kind of weird.
I did a little bit of training with like a cheap Energizer
headlamp from Home Depot that I basically just put around my
waist. But once I got the iron stamina
I wanted to make sure I had enough to last the night, so I
(22:36):
didn't really run with the anything around my waist.
Yeah, it's, I mean, that's just a little thing I picked up
because I I'm also one of those people that I don't know about
you because if you hear something in the woods, I'm
always like twisting my head at night, you know, you never know
what you're hopefully it's just deer and stuff, but I always
(22:57):
look around. So at least like my waist belt
is focused on the trail the whole time where it's like my
head. I could sort of, it's just, I
don't know, it's one of those weird things I'll have to show
you in person one day. Now Speaking of the woods, did
you see any critters on the course at all, like snakes or
(23:19):
deer? Bear.
We actually walked up on a timber rattler.
There was a group of us and it almost looked like A to go
container because he was coiled.And then as we got closer, like,
oh, OK, we're you stay here and we're going to go that way.
(23:40):
And then I, we saw probably two or three, but there was a lot of
sheds near the trail. So I I know they're there, but
we didn't really see as many as I thought we would.
Was that were they all at night or they daylight?
(24:02):
A lot of them were like right after nightfall, like within
probably 2 hours of nightfall. Once it got overnight, I really
didn't see too much. Yeah, so they're still trying to
get that radiant heat from the rocks and stuff before they have
(24:22):
to den out for the night. That that that'd be one of my
fears. Running iron stone with those
like big Rocky Hill sections is not, you know, getting stepping
on a snake that you don't see because it's night time and you
don't get that extra like couplefoot of view in front of you.
But thank thankfully you didn't get bit or nobody got bit.
(24:46):
Yeah, I didn't hear of anybody getting bit and I was kind of
worried about that. I don't know.
I just tried to be cautious, butI still wanted to make forward
progress. Yeah, snake bitings, and it was
more so like rattlesnakes. I think they're so rare in PA.
There might be like 1 every like5-10 years, if that.
(25:10):
It's like getting attacked by a bear.
It's one of those rare things, but because most people in the
woods are not screwing around enough to aggravate them, I
guess. Yeah, on the 1 preview run,
Patrick, the Co race director, said that they're not going to
(25:31):
come after you like you have to provoke them or step on them
like they're not. They know that.
They know that you're too big, so they're not going to waste
their venom on you. Yeah, I'm, I'm actually more
concerned about copperheads thanrattlesnakes because it seems
like copperheads are the, the, Idon't know, for lack of better
(25:55):
terms, the a holes with the snake family in PA.
I've heard they're really aggressive.
I haven't. I haven't run up on one yet, but
I heard that they can get aggressive.
Yeah, but I've actually seen a lot on rail trails like Ghost
Town Trail. There's, there was a quite a few
I think last year, but hey, at least I saw them on my bike and
(26:19):
not on my foot. So now what did you use for like
nutrition and hydration during the race?
I basically fueled. I had two soft flasks with
Tailwind and then I had a bladder with just straight
(26:42):
water. And then I've never had any
issues. But I heard people who've had
issues. I mean, I did it with the Nerds
gummies and gummy bears. And then I know towards the end
I was taking in some broth once we got into Alan Seeger.
(27:03):
I mean most of it was is Nerd clusters and gummy bears.
So some more sugar then say likeprotein and carbs then?
Yeah, and it's, it's worked for me.
I mean, I'm, I'm always open to try new things, but I mean, it's
always, it's always worked. I, I would take two Tums at
(27:28):
every aid station just so that my stomach didn't decide to
turn. I think I'm going to start
putting that into practice on every ultra from here on out.
Yeah, it's I tell people everybody's different so like
your food needs and what you need and what you crave during
(27:49):
racist individualized. So like giving tips to somebody,
Sir, somebody today on the Altoona PA runners asking about
tips and stuff. And I was like I said something
about I can help you, but the intangibles like the food and
nutrition and stuff you have to learn on your own because I can
tell you what works for me. But your stomach and your body
(28:10):
is completely different. You know, one mile in, even 10
miles in compared to mine. So it's such a weird learning
process in the ultra world, I guess to learn.
Yeah, I got tagged in that too. I just didn't really know what
to tell them. I just kind of have to just
(28:32):
experiment and find out what works.
Yeah, and do it in training. So overall, how did you like
compare to the like the other courses Juria like Raccoon and
stuff like that and Last Man Standing, how was the course for
(28:54):
marking like the flags and stufflike that?
For the most part it wasn't bad.I mean, once you go on the the
mid state, you were just fallingthe blazes, but some of the
trees were either had fallen down or just kind of had to pay
(29:15):
attention. You couldn't really cruise
through there between the rocks and then just making sure that
you saw that blaze on the tree. Now, do they have the I?
I know sometimes like Eastern and World's End, they have the
ribbons with a reflective. Do they have any of those up
(29:37):
there? Yeah, they had ribbons.
Basically on any kind of turn that wasn't obvious, they would
throw up. They would throw up the ribbon
just to give you an idea. OK, you're going to make a
little last. You're going to make it right.
Now Mid state trail itself, I'm drawing a blank here.
(30:02):
What because I run so many like Laurel Highlands is yellow and
some other trails or different colors?
What color is the blaze on the Mid State Trail?
I think it was orange, I think. Yeah, it's, it's probably like
one of those things that you really don't think to remember.
(30:25):
I it's hard for me because like I said, running so many
different trails, DC and org, you know, uses some different
ones. So it's, I was just always
curious. I don't have to, I'm going to
have to look into it now becauseI'm just one of those curious
things. But did you have a hard time
picking that color up at night at all?
No, I mean between that and thenjust every once in a while
(30:48):
looking at the GPX file on my watch, I mean I had no issues.
I got off the trail once, but I mean I I was able to see OK, I
don't see any markings and then just kind of backtrack to where
the last place I saw a marking and then got rated again.
(31:13):
So how were the 8 stations this year at Ironstone and which one
was your favorite if you could remember?
I mean, I think did all the aid stations were great.
I mean, the volunteers were great.
I tried not to. I don't know, I have a problem.
I don't like to just stay at theaid station.
(31:36):
Like I just like to get what I need and just keep going.
But I've been, I think, I think the race is well put together
and then it's reflected in the aid stations because everybody
wants to help. I know when we were on the rail
(31:57):
trail, every every aid station we went to, somebody was trying
to refill your flasks and get you ice.
And I mean I, I mean they're topnotch, I think.
Yeah, usually I, I like to tell people PA has the best aid
(32:19):
stations in my opinion out of all the United States, just
because I think our people when they volunteered an aid station,
they know they're giving up their time and their day, but
they're doing it willingly and they actually are there wanting
to be there. They're not like forced to be
there or paid to be there. They, they're volunteering and
(32:41):
they, to me, they truly have thebest intentions of helping the
runner in any way possible. So so when you go out of state,
not to bash other states, but it's just like this.
This doesn't have the PA feel. It was definitely nice to get to
(33:02):
the aid station for Indian Stepsand see my buddy Steve Pagano
there. I mean, that was kind of a that
was kind of uplifting. And then once we got the Alan
Seeger, seeing Stephanie in themfrom Johnstown Running Club, so
it was kind of a pickup right atthe end.
(33:24):
Now you're talking about seeing people.
Did you know a lot of people on the course or did you make any
friends and stuff like that along the day?
I made Oh yeah, during the day, and then some of the people that
I ran the preview runs with kindof made friends with them.
(33:49):
I mean, I, I think the trail community as a whole is really
welcoming. You pretty much can walked up in
any any trail race. I want to say this again for PA
races, since I do have a little experience outside of PA that
you can pretty much talk to any person at APH trail race,
(34:12):
whether it be north-south, east,West and just start talking to
them like you're like next door neighbors or your family.
And it just, everybody seems to like just fit right in like your
brother, sister, mother, father,whatever you want to say.
So it is a really nice communitythat PA has.
(34:32):
Yeah, I've only run just those couple ultras, but everybody
just seems to be they want to help you and they're cheering
you on as much as you're cheering them on.
And it's just a good environment, I think.
Yeah, I think it's just a good atmosphere overall, just how we
(34:53):
treat people and, you know, try to treat others out there.
Like, like you said, you guys help the woman, you know, get
back on the trail where you go find the right way and stuff
like that. Just like one of those things
that you know, other areas may not be so inclined to do.
I mean, most of the trail running community, I would say
(35:13):
99% would. But in the heat of the battle,
it's sometimes you know, people get caught up and aren't always
the nicest. Now, would you say you pushed
yourself a lot or did you hold back at all?
Or you know, what would you have, I guess?
(35:35):
Did you leave anything out there?
I guess? I kind of got conservative once
I rolled my ankle. Like I had no quitting me.
I wanted to. I was going to run until they
either pulled me for time or I rolled my ankle worse.
(36:00):
Let's see, trying to think what else I wanted to say.
Did you? Yeah.
Did you take poles or anything like that at all?
I had, yeah, I got a cheap pair from it's the outdoor store
(36:21):
right next to Target in Altina. I'm trying brush, brush.
You drawing a blank. Oh, Appalachian Trill or
Appalachian Run Company? No, it was.
I can't think of what the name is called.
I'm trying to think used to be Gander Mountain.
Oh, I thought, is that the duck?Is there a Dunham's over there?
(36:43):
Or Dicks. Nah, it's that might have been I
can't remember. I got it one.
Of the sporting. I can't think of what it's
called. Yeah, it's like some sporting
goods, not like Sporting's warehouse or something, but I I
know what you mean now. It it is.
It is like a Gander Mountain Cabela's type building.
(37:05):
Is that the one you're? Talking about, yeah.
And I can't think of what it's. I can't think of what it's
called. Yeah, it's been a couple years
since I've been to that store. So they're there, Dicks.
I'll see. Did you have more like were they
the collapsible ones or were they like the folding ones?
(37:27):
No, I had the ones that fold that I can just put in the back
of my vest all. Right.
How did you mentally stay focused during the whole race?
I just once I got past Indian steps, I knew that I really only
had two more climbs and I just really wanted that flannel.
(37:54):
It isn't. It is nice.
Was it? Wait, was it Gray and blue this
year? I think so.
I think Ben was wearing it at Laurel this year, you know,
showing it off a little bit, if I, if I'm not mistaken.
I could be, but I'm pretty sure that was, yeah, it was like a
more grey than it was like the Blue Square.
(38:17):
I don't know what you call that.So when you're when you're
running in general or racing, what is your like sort of back
during what I just asked you like what is your motivation or
why to why you run and race in general?
(38:41):
I mean, I have teenage kids, so I just want to, I want to teach
them that. I mean, you can do hard things
like it might suck in the moment, but you can nothing.
Nothing that's worth doing is going to be easy.
(39:01):
So have they got in the running yet?
My son runs cross country. He's actually the reason I got
started back in the running. He started cross country and I
figured, oh, I should get into shape.
And it just kind of snowballed from there.
Now here, this might be the mostimportant question that I'm
(39:24):
going to ask you. Who's faster right now?
Probably me. He's not into shape for cross
country yet. I mean, I'm not saying he won't
pass me up once he gets through camp in a couple races, but I, I
think it's probably me right now.
(39:45):
I. Mean no knock on him, but you
know you got do you guys have that like father son rivalry
going at all or? No, he's pretty laid back.
He kind of doesn't get too excited about it.
Well, I do look forward to meeting him and seeing him out
there and racing him sometime. You know, maybe guys could do
(40:06):
like a some kind of like relay or it'd be cool to see you guys
do like a relay or something. Yeah, I'll have to.
I'm going to have to try to talkhim into that.
Maybe I'll get some of him and his cross country buddies.
So what drew you to Ironstone tobegin with?
(40:31):
Honestly I would just found it and I was running with the
Altoona running club and the oneguy that ran it last year just
told me how crazy it was and I just figured I want to see how
bad it is. Maybe it's not as bad as he
(40:52):
says. Did he prove now your
expectations? Were they proven right or wrong
in the end? I mean, it was definitely
difficult. Like you got to, if you're going
to deal with that, that much tactical running, I mean, you're
going to have to be mentally strong because it's going to
(41:14):
wear on you after probably 30 miles or whatever it was that we
had to run on that. No.
I remember asking you because I saw you at Deer Flies probably
two or three weeks after you finished Ironstone.
But I asked you about your shoe changes, if you had any shoe
(41:35):
changes, and then if you change shoes on the rail trail before
you switch to the trail trail part.
I couldn't. I couldn't remember what your
answer was. So did you change shoes at all?
I probably should have, but I didn't.
Like. I think next year I'll probably
(41:56):
go with a road shoe until I get to Alfreda before we go into the
woods, just because I think justa shoe change because by the
time I was done my feet are justdestroyed.
Yeah, that rail trail port for 17 miles on actual like trail
(42:20):
shoes can really beat you up a little bit.
So you didn't, you didn't changeshoes or socks at all throughout
the whole night? No, I didn't.
I should have, but I didn't. I I packed them, but I just
didn't use. I just didn't.
I don't know why. I just must have been locked in.
(42:44):
Sometimes it's better not to because then you open up the
possibilities of like saying blisters or something like that.
They start to throb a little bitmore once the pressure's off.
Did you did you get any blistersor anything from wearing the
same shoes then? I think I had a couple that they
weren't nothing. There was nothing terrible.
(43:06):
Well, that, that's always a goodsign that your training went
pretty well because, well, the course itself is pretty dry,
isn't it? I don't.
There's really no like real wet spots or stream cross.
There was no stream crossings oranything.
I guess they just made it up with all the rock that they had
there. Yeah, I, I thought it was a
(43:28):
pretty dry course. I mean, I'm trying to remember
like all the courses running through my head.
I'm trying to remember the wholecourse.
But yeah, I thought it was a drycourse.
How did your recovery go from Ironstone and what did you do to
recover? I, I know when I got home I
(43:49):
threw the recovery boots on and then I think I took a day or two
off and then it was just kind ofeasy run, just easy running,
just trying to get back into training, not really pushing
hard. Did you have any special meal
and celebration? I just had, I think I had a
(44:13):
pulled pork because they had a barbecue joint there at the
finish. Some sometimes I ask that
because sometimes people have like a celebratory like cake or
pie or, you know, big, they go somewhere fancy, get a big old
steak. Me, I'm just like, just give me
some cheap Walmart pizza and I'll be fine.
(44:35):
Yeah, I've heard a lot of peopleafter a big race they can't eat
anything. But by the time I was done, I
just whatever they had sounded great.
Yeah, that's, that's one of those signs that lets you know
that you really did a good job and you, you know, you really
did a good effort if you're, youknow, if you're willing to eat
(44:56):
whatever. So what are you looking forward
to in the future as far as like races or running in general?
Kind of right now I'm just kind of trying to find 100 Miller.
I mean, I thought about trying to get into Eastern states, so
(45:17):
maybe try Eastern states next year.
Probably try Rabid. Rabid, the 100 Miller.
Yeah, I think they're they're what they're moving rabid or it
is moved already announced to like May or something like that.
Yeah, it's going to be a completely different ball game
than being in March. Yeah, that's it's always hit or
(45:42):
miss because that what was it last year, the year before it
was, maybe it was two years ago it was like 30° or something and
icy and people had like the icicles on their eyes.
So maybe if since they moved it'll be a little bit warmer but
not too hot. I just know it poured on my
third lap. It just poured or probably most
(46:06):
of the lap it just, it just poured.
Yeah, I was done by then. Yeah, because didn't you do the
haves? Yeah, it was, it was poured on
my way home from like the pit. Well, I call it from Pittsburgh
way, but yeah, I was like, yeah,I'm glad I'm not out there right
now. I mean, I hate to say that, but
(46:29):
I I was kind of laughing becauseI I wouldn't have wanted to been
out there on some of the like that what I guess where the
hills are like after you cross that Creek and you first start
out like that little next two miles to the finish.
I wouldn't have wanted to been on there when it was pouring
down rain. Yeah, it wasn't fun.
(46:53):
Now, is there anything you're looking to improve on in like
the near future down the road asfar as like running like any
aspect, like you know, gear, endurance, anything like that?
I'd like to. Work on some speed I think.
(47:16):
I think I have a decent endurance built, I just want to
try to get a little faster. Well.
Since you said speed, how do youplan on doing actor?
Do you have an idea of what you want to, you know, go about
accomplishing that? I think I live right down from
(47:42):
Cambria Heights track so I mighttry to do some track workouts
and fart licks. A lot of hill work.
Well, I will say, I mean, we didn't really touch on it per
SE, but like as I said, I saw you deer flies in somebody did
win the 15K if I don't remember.Yeah, when he handed me that
(48:06):
bowl. I.
I didn't think so because I started basically not last, but
I mean I was towards the back and then I was looking at times
and I was like 3 minutes slower than last year.
I mean it helped it AJ did the 25 but.
(48:32):
Hey, take it when you can. That's what everybody tells me.
Was that, was that your? Well, I don't, I don't want to
pry too much, but was that the first race you won at all or did
you win any other races? No, that's the first race I won.
I finished second at the 1st Responders 5K that they had in
(48:57):
September down at Lakemont Park.But yeah, that was the first
win. Well, hopefully there's more,
but I. Mean well, Congrats, man.
That's it's a huge like it's a huge accomplishment.
The winner race in general, no matter what distance, whether
it's a one mile 100, mile 200 Miller, you know, it doesn't
(49:18):
matter if there's like 50 Jim Walmsley's that were there the
year before and they don't show up this year.
Like winning a race to me is important and it's such a huge
accomplishment no matter what the, you know, like you said,
you ran like what, 3 minutes slower or or yeah, yeah, like
(49:39):
that doesn't matter. Like winning the race and being
happy with your performance is ultimately what matter.
Well, winning isn't everything, but you know, once you won and
you can say 1, like it's just such a cool thing to say.
Yeah, I'm going into that. I didn't even sign up.
(50:01):
I wasn't even pre registered. I just kind of on a whim they
have race. I signed up and wasn't really
going to go crazy. Just kind of wanted to run it
again because last year I rolledmy ankle.
So I was just kind of redemptionthat I came out with no rolled
ankles. And I mean, the wind was just
(50:21):
icing on the cake. Did you did you ever do the 25 K
out there? No, I thought about it this
year, maybe next year. I'll just try to chase AJ down
if he doesn't. All right, because we got we got
to challenge you to do the 25 K next year because it's it's I
(50:43):
want to say it's more the back half which you miss in the 15 to
the 25. I will say it's harder, but it's
more fun and when you finish like the challenge of you
finishing it and just that back half, like crossing the
spillway, like both directions and stuff like that, it's just a
(51:06):
whole different atmosphere compared well compared to the
15K. Yeah, I'm probably going to sign
up for that 25K next year just to just to see, just to see it.
I'm not saying that I'll be at the 25 next year again, but
(51:29):
we'll see how things go. At least I'll be there in some
fashion. Maybe just the 8K again so I
could take videos and stuff. Anything else you want to add by
chance about Ironstone or other races?
Well, if you like rocks and you like a lot of elevation once
(51:52):
your legs are dead, sign up for Ironstein.
All right, so I got one last thing I want to ask or get from
you before we wrap this up. Do you have any tips for new
people in trail running or running in general?
Or a tip that you just want to share that you know worked for
(52:15):
you so the masses can hear? I've just been, I've been trying
to pull people over to trail running, just telling them like
don't have to go as fast. If you go to an ultra, look at
all the food you get at the aid stations.
You don't have to be fast. And just for the new runners, I
(52:37):
mean, just don't do too much toofast.
Get hurt and then just swear offthe sport.
Just kind of ease into it. You're not going to be the
fastest when you start. I mean, I can remember when I
started back up, it was just a mile at a time.
(52:59):
So you just kind of have to takethe little wins and just go from
there. Nice.
That's that's good, solid advice.
All right, on that note, that's all I had for today.
Yeah, so I think that's a prettygood ending point for the
(53:20):
conversation. So Andrew, I thank you for
jumping on and doing this. I always enjoy seeing you out
there. I hope to see you again soon.
And congratulations on the Ironstone, the rabbit raccoon
last man standing in your first win at deer flies this year.
Yeah, and thanks for having me on.
(53:42):
I mean, it was nice to catch up.All right, see you soon.
Yep. Thank you for listening to the
episode today. If you or anyone you know has
any amazing stories, adventures,or interesting information you
or they may want to share, please reach out to me anytime.
(54:04):
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