S4E92 Alec Cline- Eastern States Finisher- Multiple 100 Mile And Ulltra Race Winner

Episode Transcript
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(00:08):
Welcome everybody to the Only I Athletics Podcast, the show that
values hearing your stories, relieving your adventures, and
learning information that can help us improve in all aspects
of our lives. I'm your host, Dean Banco, and I
know you enjoyed today's episodeas much as I do.
All right, today I have Alec Klein on the show today.

(00:29):
He was a recent Eastern States finisher and he's won.
Oh, geez. Looking at his results, probably
a dozen, 100 miles at this point.
And then, you know, a couple dozen other races.
So I wanted to get his perspective of Eastern States
and some of the other races and,you know, maybe compare, you
know, how those went and what he's learned from some of those

(00:51):
other races. So First off, congratulations on
your Eastern States finishes andthe races that you've smoked so
far this year alone. And I've seen what's on your
schedule and it's just amazing. I appreciate that.
Thank you. So I guess we'll just dive right

(01:12):
in with the most important question is what got you in the
running or trail running to begin with?
I think running in general, I just decided to do it with my
cousin and I always like to say I was forced to run in the
Marine Corps. And then when I got out, two

(01:35):
days after I got out, I moved inwith him and we decided to give
it a try. And I don't really know what
prompted it. Funny.
He came down to visit me one time when I was in the Marine
Corps and we did, we ran 13 miles or half marathon and we
were, we went to get to 8 and I'm like, Corey, I am done like
I am. I was barely walking and he's

(01:58):
like, all right, well, you can go back to the hotel and I'll,
I'm going to finish up 10 at least.
And I'm like, oh man, I was hoping you'd quit too.
And so I went with 10 to, I wentto 10 with him and then he's, I
was done. And then he's like, all right,
I'm just going to finish out thehalf marathon.
And then, you know, I did the same.
And it, it was like an experience that him and I did

(02:19):
together that I still really loved for how hard it was.
And then when I, I got out of the Marine Corps probably six
months later, and I think that just kind of stuck with us.
And we started giving it a try. We, it was like the heat of July
of 2018, one of the hottest summers here in Ohio in decades.

(02:40):
And we wrote stuff out on a piece of paper and just like,
hey, how can we do this the nextweek?
Can we increase here? And we had like 4 mile Fridays
where we, we have this loop around our neighborhood that's 4
miles uninterrupted. And we would try to be faster
every Friday. And just like the allure of
having fun. And you know, we didn't put any

(03:01):
data to it or anything other than like writing it out.
And I just think that was the basis of where I believe running
is now for me is just having funand joining up with people.
I, I like to run with as many people as I can now.
And then with the trail running,it wasn't for probably a year or

(03:24):
two later, my uncle Kevin runs all the time and I would join
him on five KS here and there. Well, he told me let's go down
to Mohican State Park. I heard there's like a loop down
there and he didn't know there was any race that down there or
anything. And so we went down one day and
on on a weekend and we ran, slash hiked the 24 mile mountain

(03:47):
bike loop and we were destroyed.And that's he never really went
that far either. Like he, he's like 5K10K half
marathon guy. And we were beat up and it was
just so such a fun experience. I never ran on trails before.
And I'm like, this is really cool.
This is like an adventure, you know, and it's hard.
There's so much varying terrain.And so then like a couple months

(04:10):
later, I asked him if he wanted to go down again.
And he was actually working thatweekend and I went down by
myself and I did it. And I didn't bring water or
anything. You know, it's just like a 24
mile run. And I was destroyed.
And I got back to my car, remember my legs shaking, it was
so fatigued. And and this woman had gotten
out of her car when I was getting back into mine.
And she's like, you know where the short loop is?

(04:32):
And I said, listen, I only been out.
That was my third time down there.
I said, I've only been down herethree times.
And I I only know this one big trail.
She's like, really? And then did you just do it?
And I said, yeah, I ran it. And she's like, how fast you do.
And I said I did it in like 4 1/2 to five hours.
She's like, wow, you should do the 50 Miller.
And I'm like 50 miles, man. I mean, I feel like that's

(04:53):
everybody's first thought when they hear an ultra.
And I'm like, I don't know. And I was like, well, thanks.
And I went home that night and that's all I could think of.
I'm like, I don't want to check this out.
And so that was kind of my entryto trail running and ultra
running in general. But I just, I think all running
has a lot of adventure and it's so much fun.

(05:14):
It's just, it's a cool sport. It's very different from many
other sports in my opinion. Well, before we go any farther,
I, I didn't know you were Marine, so I would like to say
as everybody should, thank you for your service.
Thank you. Yeah, I I always like to say
that when like I said, is this is me and you talking for like
the first time I've. We barely thought.

(05:37):
Yeah, I, I just noticed some of your results.
That's why I reached out to you the other week, because you to
me, you just basically like jumped on.
I, I know you've been on it for a few years, but you to me, you
just like jumped on the scene this year and just like
destroyed. That's why I wanted to like get
you on and like, so I didn't know that you were a Marine.
So again, thank you for protecting me and everything

(06:01):
that you did for our country. I appreciate that.
Hey, listen, I was a trumpet player in the Marine force.
Say what you will, I I just played music.
But hey, we served our time and it was great and we did a lot of
training and all the things, youknow, I've been a musician for
life. But Marine Corps teaches you a
lot of mental and physical discipline, disciplinary things

(06:22):
that I think transfers a long time in life for sure.
You know, aside from this nervous thing, I think it
teaches you to be a well-roundedperson if you want it to be.
So you didn't have to. So you said a trumpet.
So that just brought my attention to Jake or whatever
his name was in that one movie, Jane Hall or whatever.

(06:44):
I can never say his name right? He was like, yeah.
He was in that one, one movie and he was oh.
Crap. I forget he was trying to get
out of like the Marine Corps then.
Well, you know, this is funny. This is funny because if you're
asking me about a movie, I've watched 3 movies in three years.

(07:09):
I don't watch a lot of videos orTV or anything, but even, well,
even war movies I haven't watched.
Yeah, I don't know. I don't know what movie that
might be. I'll.
I'll have to look it up here in a minute.
But anyway, so what's your, well, I guess what was your

(07:30):
first race then 'cause you said you sort of jumped into it a
little bit with longer distancesthan most people?
We did. I mean, yes and no because so
like in 2018 when I started running, we the only thing I did
that year I think was the TurkeyTrot.

(07:51):
And when, when Corey and I started running, we did, we were
doing like 150 miles a month. I had no idea what we're doing.
We're running fast all the time,just wearing ourselves out.
And luckily we were young and dumb, you know, a little bit
less injury prone when you're young.
And we, we grew up working on a hay field and stuff, you know,
and we were always throwing bails.

(08:12):
And it's like we had an active lifestyle.
He's a very active guy. So we always were doing
something. But 2019 I think I did run from
home half marathon and I took all winter off.
So I used to take the winters off running because I hate the
cold. I mean I still hate the cold,
but I would take all winter off.And then I came back and did

(08:33):
this half marathon and it was I was not feeling good and it was
like 2 1/2 hours, which is greattimes for many people, but it
just for me, I knew I could run faster but taking all that time
off, I was not good. And then I don't think I did
anything else that year until the Turkey Trot again.
But I was running a lot still and I think year 2019 I still

(08:55):
only did like 7 or 800 miles only, you know, through the
whole year. That's what I, you know, my bad
terminology. But then 2020 I, it was when
this Mohican thing happened and by October 2020 they had moved
Mohican back because of COVID. I did the Mohican 50 and boy, it
was 19° that day. It's so freaking cold and but I

(09:17):
did it and I met a really good friend because of that.
We met on Facebook before the race.
He was his first 50 Miller. He was pretty much my age.
His name is Kane Gardner, one ofmy best friends of all time, and
we decided to link up that day. Well, The funny thing is, is
they let us go in waves of four people every minute because of

(09:37):
COVID. He started in wave 2, I started
to wave 17. So I was 15 minutes behind him.
And we were like, OK, if you runat this pace at this week,
whatever. And I ended up finding him at
like, I don't know, mile 15. And we ran the rest of the race
together. And from then on we started
running most altars together forlike 2 years from mile one to

(10:00):
the end. And I didn't run.
I did a couple 50s and you know,2020 I did my first 1/20/21 I
think I did Mohican 50 again. Now 2021 is a very specific year
for my running because Corey andI Corey got back into running.
He took some time off, but we signed up for every 5K10K in

(10:24):
half in town and that year we ran 30 races and just every race
we could get our hands on. It was so much fun showing up
and I loved roads. I really still wasn't a trail
runner. And then in 2022 I really
started pursuing like I want to do more trails and I still did a

(10:45):
lot of roads, but as as 2022 into 2023 I started on more
trails. I failed Mohican 100 and 2022 so
I dropped to the 50. That result doesn't exist
because they don't allow drop downs even though they told me I
could. So it's not even a DNF, it just
doesn't exist. And then 23 is what changed it

(11:06):
all because Kanan and I decided to sign up for Georgia Death
Race and that race really changed us.
I mean it was. That's a hard freaking course
and through the mountains and and that point, I always say is
the pinnacle change of my trail running because I felt like I

(11:27):
felt like it was a real ultra and that that doesn't like
discredit any other altars. But there when we got to the
pack of pickup, it seemed like there was like celebrity runners
there and stuff and that was so freaking cool.
It was like watching all those YouTube videos and I was pumped,
you know, And when we finished that, our sense of achievement
was insane. And I, we felt like the world,
you know, could be achieved. And and, you know, four months

(11:51):
later, I completed my first hundred and things started
taking off. I started taking fitness more
seriously. And yeah, not to overextend that
answer. It definitely seems like in that
2022 range because I'm, I got ultrasound up right now, like
your jump. I don't want to say your fitness
level, but it definitely shows that, you know, from 2022 to

(12:12):
2023, like your results and yourtimes just exponentially just
like dropped and then the stuff that you were doing just became
more insane, I guess is the bestway to say it.
Keep having more fun. You know, I never ever thought I
could be competitive in AI, meanin any race for that matter, but

(12:37):
especially ultras. And I had won some local 5 KS
and sometimes not that many people, but you know, wins a
win. And I just, I have never really
stressed myself out about training plans and not a lot of
people necessarily train that way.
You know, I would just each day just go run something just for

(13:01):
fun and then sign up for events just for the hell of it and
figure it out later. And I think that nonchalantness
has helped me perform better because I like the sport instead
of trying to treat it like a job.
And, you know, and a lot of people like the sport and maybe
they they aren't necessarily fast, you know, and not to

(13:22):
discredit anybody, but I also think sometimes we're afraid to
run fast. And it's OK, it, it hurts, but
it does. But it's something I've learned
is sometimes the body does work better when you're running a
little bit faster, you know, andif you're trying to really hike
it out for these long events, you ever just wonder what would

(13:44):
happen if you're like, I'm just going to try to run the whole
time for A50. If you crash and burn a 20,
learn from it. But what would just happen if
there's no risks, you know, and,and really there isn't a lot of
risk. The risk is you bonk and that's
not a big deal. You know, it's OK.
It's like you, you adapt and overcome.

(14:05):
But it the the benefit of it is,OK, what if I could function
better by running? And I'm not trying to get into a
different topic, but sometimes the body does work better when
you're moving a little bit quicker.
Walking eventually kills us. You know, we get into those
death marches and altars where you're just like, this is going
to take the rest of my life to walk.

(14:25):
And I've been there plenty of times.
And I think that's why I startedrealizing when I was getting
competitive was I'm going to hurt when I run.
I'm going to hurt when I walk. I'm just going to keep trying to
run. And that's not always possible,
but. I, I think it's because you sort
of zone out when you start running faster, the faster you
go. You really can't think about too
much. You're just more focused on like

(14:47):
the trail ahead of you. So you're not like trip, if it's
a technical trail, you're not like tripping and falling.
So your mind sort of takes over and goes to different places
than where's, if you're walking,you have like more free time to
say, listen to your music or seethe scenery around you.
I think that's, I think that's sort of on the same page of what
you were. Yeah, on the same page.

(15:07):
But no, I think you're right 'cause when you're walking, you
get more time to think about howmuch pain you're in, you know,
But when you're running, you have to focus on other things,
so it kind of like distracts some of your attention.
Yeah, that's a good point. Yeah, 'cause that, that trail
vision that you get where you'relooking ahead, like say 810 feet
and your feet are moving, it just takes like so much energy

(15:29):
away and focus from what you cando and just blanks everything
out. Then you're like, oh, I'm at the
next aid station already. I'm like, huh, how did that
happen? Yeah, yeah, I totally agree.
So what I I know you said you'd do it nonchalantly, but what's a
typical way you train for like 100 Miller?

(15:49):
Like say mileage, you have like a specific mileage or you try to
get in some hill work or just time on feet.
Yeah, So I guess like when I usenonchalantly, I don't mean that
I don't train hard, you know, and I just don't follow a strict
plan. But I guess like a typical week
before I say that I like I just like to just aim for weekly

(16:13):
numbers, however I get there. And if I'm really beat up in the
beginning of the week, it'll be a slow start to the week and a
bigger end and you know, and just to kind of ebbs and flows
through the weeks. But like today, so I started
doing in the beginning of the year, I started trying to on
lunch runs. I tried splitting them up into

(16:35):
two instead of 1 giant run. So today I did 7 miles at lunch
and I did 10 miles after work. That's a lot.
But I've gotten to the point where that doesn't beat me up as
much and I can run the next day.You know, a couple of years ago
my big weeks were 30-40 and now I really do like to keep it

(16:56):
above 70 no matter what. I mean, I think that's, it's
been a goal for mine a long time.
And sometimes I get to the weekend and I only have 30 miles
and I'll do 40 miles over the weekend.
I'll do maybe within four runs. Or sometimes I have some crazy
buddies now, which is awesome. And you know, like one of my

(17:17):
friends, Brad, if I tell him, hey, do you want to go on a 35
mile run today, he'll do it. And that's awesome.
And to have those kind of peoplearound you don't get that very
often. But other than that.
So something else I like to do that I've done for a long time.
I call them 20 mile Wednesdays and I call them Wednesdays or

(17:38):
for growing. So I would go up and I drive up
to Cuyahoga Falls to run with a group called the Lawn Wranglers.
They do 6 miles every Wednesday,but there's a lot of people in
this group and they've grown over the years.
I'm friends with a ton of them. There are a couple of those guys
that like to go far with me. And when I was going up for just
six miles, I mean I was driving 45 minutes N just to run 6 miles

(18:00):
with these guys. And over a year or so, I'm like,
you know, I'm just going to likemake this a trip each Wednesday.
And I would make it half marathon Wednesdays.
And then eventually got to the point where I was on 20 mile
Wednesdays. And now every Wednesday I do
that. And by the time Thursday morning
comes around, I'm typically at 50 miles for the week.

(18:23):
And then I just ride it out through the rest of the week.
I've hit 100 mile weeks a lot, but I do like to back off of it
sometimes. But 100 mile weeks, I don't know
how to say it without sounding like, you know, a butt head.
But I mean, it doesn't necessarily destroy me.
You know, I've been able to keepup with it for so long that it
feels OK. Yeah.

(18:44):
Just think it's because you break it up.
Yeah. Yeah.
And actually, I said the the lunch runs to a guy named Heath
Goshorn. He's a local, really good run
around here. And he always did lunch runs.
And I'm like, you know, I'm going to give that a try.
And it feels better on the body.It does.
Yeah. Because I would be friends with.
Oh, cool. Yeah, yeah, he's a great runner

(19:06):
and he just got married. Salah to him and Olivia.
Yeah. Congratulations to them.
That was. Yeah, that was this past
Saturday, in fact. Yeah, yeah.
And they do. And they had a running wedding
party too, which is so cool. And in that I've always looked
up to him and as a runner and like he was really one of the
first ultra runners, like heavy hitter ultra runners I knew in

(19:26):
the area because I even with Arlen, I didn't know Arlen for a
long time, for years. I just met him this year and you
know, Heath, I was just like this guy, the monster runner,
and I liked what he does. And I'm like, well, those lunch
runs seem important. So I started trying them earlier
this year and boy, I hated them.I'm just like, I don't want to
run in the middle of the work day.

(19:47):
But it got kind of got to that point where I would just start
it, you know, and it then eventually found felt good.
I'd say two or three of my runs a week feel good at lunch.
The other ones I'm like, I don'twant to do this but.
You got to get through those ones you don't like because the
majority of them you will. But yeah, so I'm breaking them

(20:08):
up. It just depends on how I'm
feeling some days. I used to just do 20 miles on
Mondays, 20 miles on Wednesdays,you know, And I would take
Fridays really easy. And then I would do like, I
would join a group, run on Saturday and then run 10 more
miles after. I'd get like 30 or 40 miles on a
Saturday just in silly numbers and just be really beat up.

(20:30):
But it was just fun, you know? And one thing I'm big on is
after these big training days, I'm always putting in a lot of
protein. I just try to keep my protein
very, very high, 200 grams a dayjust because your body needs to
recover. Tons of water and try to get my
vitamins. I mean, so there's some things I
take like really seriously. The running seems reckless, but

(20:54):
I don't think it is. Your body's meant to run.
There's no like Jack Daniels plan for the Cavemen, you know?
Are you like a big stretcher or you know, foam roller or any of
those type of things? So I would say no, but I like
sometimes I get in the mood and I will stretch for like an hour

(21:15):
and then there will be like a week.
I don't do any of it. Now.
Do I think that's smart? Now I think I need to do it more
and in the past couple months, Iwill give myself some credit.
I feel like I've been better because I go to the sauna a lot.
I like the sauna at the YMCA, the dry sauna and I will stretch
in there and I like to just, I don't have any like guided

(21:36):
stretches. I do.
I just in my mind try to open something up that seems like I
don't have a lot of flexibility in which maybe that's what
everybody does. But if I can't open my hips, I'm
going to try to work my hips until I feel like I can open
them. You know, if I can't straighten
my legs when I touch my toes, I need to work on.

(21:56):
There are some weeks I feel likeTin Man and I know I need to get
some movement. Yeah.
So I think I'm a casual stretcher.
You know, I'm definitely not a nun.
Foam rolling I don't really get.I don't, I don't know.
Sometimes though, I'll take a tennis ball and I'll roll it
under my calves and stuff that feels good.

(22:18):
But I guess I am not good at foam rolling.
Yeah, I I really don't do anything for recovery except
drinking like a a fin aid and a warm shower.
Yeah, sort of let my body do thehealing itself.
Yeah. And I don't know what you do for
work, but like, I walk around atwork.
I have a standing desk. I barely sit.

(22:40):
And I think that has helped me alot over the years is I got to
walk around the plant. I stand at my desk, I, you know,
run out work. And I think when you're always
moving, your body is clearing lactic acid and keeping things
healing correctly. When you sit and lay down for a
long time, I just don't think it's great for the body because
after my first ultras, I would just lay in bed for two days.

(23:04):
And boy, that's even worse. And now when nobody wants to do
it after an ultra, you got to get out and walk that next day.
You have to move and you're going to hate your life, but you
have to because you're going to really reap the benefits later.
Yeah, it's it's at least what proven like two or three days
quicker for healing at least your legs like I was.

(23:24):
Yeah, like you said, I have to no matter if it even if it's
like a hard 5K or half marathon or marathon ultra, as long as I
do like an easy at least an easythree or something the next day
like I feel so much better. And Wednesday I'm like, oh, I'm
back to normal. Whereas if I don't like, so like
when I do, when I did Eastern, I, well, I was so beat up, but

(23:48):
it just took me like a month anda half to recover because I
couldn't move. And I, yeah, I was so out of
shape at that point I couldn't move.
So it just took me so much longer to recover.
Well, I mean, that course is just disgusting.
I mean, it'll make every bit of your existence painful.
Yeah. I mean, that's, that's awesome

(24:12):
that it took you that long to recover because that means you
did some freaking cool. You know, that's what I always
think of like when you make yourself hurt that much, like
you did that, that's just so invigorating.
Like you did that to yourself. And I just get chills thinking
about it. That's what I love about
running. It's like you're in control and
you know that when you're in pain, you're like, it was only

(24:34):
me, you know, so good for you. When did you do it?
2019. How cool.
That my time was ridiculously slow.
It was like 33 hours. Hey, it's not slow brother.
It's you're completing 100. I'll believe that every day.
You know it's. I took like maybe a three to
four hour nap in the middle of the night somewhere.

(24:57):
That's Ronsi. How did So there's a question
for you. When you sleep in an altar, when
you wake up, how do you get yourself to go again?
Oh, I'm fine. You feel like you can get up and
you're like, oh, I got 30 more miles.

(25:18):
I mean. That sounds crazy to me.
Mentally it was well, I was so beat up at that point, but I
think I just need that like reset, I guess so.
Moving again after I wake up, that's the last thing I would
want to do. Well, I mean, I was a little bit
stiff. So like I do, I do like a few

(25:39):
toe touches and a couple of lunges and then it might have,
that's usually what I do it likeif I have to rest for an altar,
but then it might take me like 1/2 mile to get warmed back up.
But I also I also lay down on mystomach so that acid sort of
gets reabsorbed so my legs don'tget as stiff.

(25:59):
From laying on your stomach. Yeah, really.
That's a little trick that I like to tell people when they're
doing altars or they do like a long effort, like a marathon or
something is that night try to lay on your stomach a little bit
so it seems like it reabsorbs instead of like pulling into
like the back of your calves. I I don't know if it's science,

(26:21):
but it it seems to work so. Hey, you've, you've tested it,
you know, and that's the thing I, I'm hopefully going to train
for a 200 next year and I know I'm going to have to sleep and I
don't know how to do that. And that is interesting because
I would like to know the better ways to do it.
I mean, because that's, that's the thing that makes that I'm
afraid of is when I wake up and if I think I have another 80

(26:47):
more miles, I don't know what I'm going to do.
Like I, I don't know how I'm going to motivate or even be
able to move. I mean, people do it clearly,
but geez, that's, that's cool. That's cool to hear.
Even if it's like even if your legs get a little stiff or tired
during a race, I've done that aswell.
We're say like Laura Highlands hiking trail, the $70 like I've

(27:08):
done that where I was just like,hey, I need 5 minutes to get my
legs recovered and I just lay onmy stomach and I'm like, all
right, I'm good to go for another 20-30 miles.
Wow, I have to remember that. That's interesting.
This is like a little reset. Yeah.
Just somebody that sees you laying on face down on the
trail. They're like, what the hell are
you doing? Well, usually I I get it like a

(27:28):
towel or like a jacket or hoodieor something from somebody.
Yeah. I'm laying there but.
And like an aid station or something, not like in the
middle of the trail. OK.
I I just couldn't imagine, like,seeing somebody out in the woods
like this person. All right?
Yeah. 'Cause that way I could also
refuel and stuff as well. Yeah, you're kind of doubling

(27:49):
your time, Yeah. Well, that's what I sort of tell
people. Like there was a few people say
at Eastern or other rates that I've seen, they get to an aid
station, we'll say like 7080 miles into 100 Miller and they
quit and and they're only like 1819 hours.
And I'm like, you still have 17 hours to do 20 miles is like sit
down, sleep, relax, recover a little bit, get your body

(28:13):
reorganized and then go back out.
Don't just try to push on and get worse.
Yeah, yeah. And that's that to that point,
and I don't know if you've noticed this, but like
competitive ultra runners, they will drop like that.
And it bothers me because I'm like, oh, just so you can't

(28:35):
podium, you're going to drop outof the race.
Like that's dumb to me. That's dumb.
And maybe they have different intentions, but if you have,
like you said, 17 more hours to go 20 miles, Oh my gosh, just
take two hours and sit there. You know, just because you're
not going to get top three and some people aren't even doing it

(28:57):
for that, but just 'cause you'renot going to get top three.
That's not a judgement of your character, you know?
And you know what I think drivesthat a lot is ultra sign up
percentage. And that's so dumb.
And if you DNF, it doesn't affect your percentage, but if
you get a 5th place, it'll affect your percentage.
I could give a damn. That's dumb, you know, and maybe
they're sponsored or something, but if a sponsor wants to focus

(29:21):
on those little things and maybeyou shouldn't be sponsored, I
don't know. I, I think, well, I think if
you're sponsored, it would actually look better that you
finished then you dropped. More.
Exposure. Yeah, you're yeah.
But I guess there is a fine linewhen we say push on like there's
obviously if you're injured, you're bleeding or if you have
like Rab dough or something likethat.

(29:42):
And that's, but we're we're not talking about that.
We're just talking about, hey, I'm cold, my feet are tired, I
got a blister. Yeah, yeah.
Because, you know, usually it's not from injury.
I mean, I won't say usually, butfrom what am I, I've seen from
experience, it's usually just because they gave up and and I
always like to say death before DNF.
And you know, I've DNF, it's fine.

(30:03):
I've DNF that first 100 and luckily I haven't had any sense,
but I'm not naive to the fact that I will fail races in the
future, I guarantee it. And hopefully it's not
devastating injury wise. But I'll be damned if I drop out
of the race just because I'm feeling sorry for myself, you
know? And that's not like me trying to
be hard. I just don't want to drop out,

(30:24):
you know? I as me as comfortable in my
home right now. I say that, but you know, when
I'm the middle of nowhere, sure,it's a different story.
And I've actually, to that point, when I was doing my first
ultras, I actually would set alarms on my phone and type a
little message and it would go off in the middle of the race.
I'm like, what the heck's going on?

(30:45):
And I'd read it and it says you're doing great.
Trust me, when I felt good, you're going to feel good now.
And like those little things, when I'd read it, I'm like, I
have a smile 'cause I'm like, God damn it, Alec, you know, you
know what you're talking about before the race.
And I think those are really, really good, helpful tools.
And I learned that because I sawa YouTube, YouTube years ago,

(31:05):
they would leave. No, they actually sent a text
out to a bunch of their friends like a week prior to the race.
And they said, hey, record a little video for me to watch
during the race at different times.
And they would be like 20 miles in, They'd watch the video and
they'd be their friend or their mom, whatever, and say, hey,
you're doing great. I know you're going to finish

(31:25):
this. And it would give a motivation
throughout the course. And I just thought that was like
a beautiful thing. And so the leaving self messages
I think is smart too, yes. It might have been, I think it
would maybe like a W plat or something that did that, because
I remember there was one recently that I watched that had
Cameron Haynes left a message like a voicemail to somebody.

(31:46):
Like what you're saying is look up like a 2 minute video clip
might even have been Sally or for Courtney or something.
One of those big names. I know he left a message and
they just said that's what got him through.
That's. Pretty cool.
I mean, that's because when you're in the heat of the
moment, nothing else matters than being done.
And, you know, in dropping, you're just like, I, I hurt so

(32:08):
bad, I don't want to do anythingelse.
But a lot of that's in our head.I mean, because there's like a
lot of things that show that ourmuscles can only break down so
far and then they just plateau. You're not really breaking them
down any further. And whether the science is true
or not, you can go one extra mile and just like to our point,

(32:31):
if you just sat around for an hour, you're going to be able to
get up and keep going. Yeah, it's it's how bad did you
really want it in the first place?
Yeah, but then, you know, and with that being said, you're
just like, why do I do this sport?
You know, I'm in such pain. I never want to do this shit
again. What am I going to get?
A freaking buckle, you know? But that's the his The next day,

(32:54):
you're going to kick yourself that that's the worst feeling is
that the next day or two, you'regoing to get regret and you.
I think doing a service to your future self is way more powerful
than than short term comfort andwait you.
This is the, one of the best things I ever heard was you're,

(33:17):
I forget how it was said, but like your current position right
now is setting up your future regrets or happiness.
And like you are the, the regrettable right now.
And you know, you're going to remember yourself five years
from now and be like, why did I do that?
And service yourself now. So you aren't, you're not

(33:37):
ashamed of your young self because you are your youngest
self right now. And I, I think of that all the
time when I'm running. I'm not that I have to hold
myself to it, but I want to do myself a good service.
Yeah, like, because I know like this year, speaking from my
perspective, like I dropped out of a lot of races before I even
started because I just knew I wasn't ready because like, I, I

(34:00):
got that mindset, like you're saying is if I start the race,
I'm finishing it no matter how bad.
But like I've had so many like injuries this year, like like an
eye issue and like health, like I was like, there's no way I can
even finish. Like that's like a whole
different. Oh yeah, yeah, story.
Like I don't want people to think we're being egotistical

(34:22):
here 'cause like there is like you're injured.
But like, I guess it's one of those things I don't want people
to like talk bad on us for like,you know, saying push through
'cause there is situations like injuries or, you know, if you're
only putting in 20 miles a week and you're signing up for 100
mile or it's, you might not wantto do it.
And that's sort of like where I've been this year, like.

(34:43):
Oh, yeah, You have to actually know your real limits.
Yeah. I mean, and I'm not saying that
people should be reckless and just push themselves to death.
And if somebody takes that from this, I mean, sorry, That's
because. Maybe.
They'll yeah, maybe they'll die out there.
Then yeah, right. I mean, if that caused them to
do that, that's wild. That's, that's some serious

(35:05):
influence. I, I just think that we decided
to do this out of our own will in the own fun of the sport.
And if you want something bad enough, you're going to figure
out how to do it, you know, and there are some uncontrollable
things like, you know, what you just said, if you had an eye
issue, I mean, it's just something you can't control.
And you just got to be real withyourself.

(35:26):
I'm not going to show up to thisrace.
That's fine. And there's no shame in that.
And in fact, even if you DNF 20 races in a row, like if somebody
shames you for that, just just shut up.
You know, like, yeah. You, you shout up.
And they weren't there. Yeah, and even if they were
there, even if they won the whole race, like, what are you
shaming me for? I have no connection to you at

(35:49):
all. Like, you're your own person.
I'm my own person. And you're the only person that
has to go to bed with yourself at night so.
Well. I guess it's still the me versus
you. And let's just say I wanted to,
let's say I sign up for a 300 mile race.
I never did one. I have no intentions of it right
now. You will one day, but.
If I'm only putting in like 30-40 miles and I'm like, hey, I

(36:13):
want to push my limits, I think I can.
And I go out there and I get 80 miles in, I'm like, I'm
definitely weighing over my head.
That's also a different story where it's probably not best to
push the extra 220 miles. So it's one of those things I
guess we have to juggle with howwe look at things.
I think my best advice is we have to fall in love with

(36:36):
training and let the race just be the cake.
You know, like the race shouldn't overextend you so far
that you just simply know you'renot ready for it.
Like you said, don't be running 20 mile weeks and expected to do
100. Now people do it, but they're

(36:57):
just on a different level. I don't think I don't I wouldn't
feel comfortable doing that. You know, I think you need at
least be going 50 miles a week, you know, at least and you know
you're on the body. I.
Don't. I wouldn't want to be that sore
afterwards either. No, and you're probably going to
injure yourself. I mean the muscle elasticity and

(37:19):
just tendons and bones like you will just hurt yourself and some
people's minds are stronger thantheir body can handle, which is
crazy and they don't even know that until they get into this
kind of sport and they can push to oblivion.
And that's where you just got tobe careful is work on the
training first before you go outand just show your game of
Goggins strength where you can just destroy your body and you

(37:42):
know, and stuff like that. So I like Goggins a lot and I
think it's really cool what he does, but I have never been
fueled off of anger or hurt or pain.
And there are people that have alot of trauma in their lives,
but I don't think that the grindculture is the way to do it.

(38:02):
I think if you really like something, you'll do it a lot.
And I really like running, so I do it a lot.
And I have felt that happiness is the driver of my performance.
I don't think it's as successfuland I would, I don't know if
there's any real stats on this, but I don't think it's as
successful to, to fuel performance on anger.

(38:24):
And if there is, I don't think it lasts long because, well, for
one, in a, in a realistic sense,how the heck are you angry for a
whole 100 mile? Or, you know, that's tough.
There's so much time to think out there, But when you're
happy, that lasts a long time. You are enjoying what you're
doing. And when you're in pain, you're
still smiling. Anger.
Anger is like what you run a 5K with.

(38:48):
So I don't know. And to do the day-to-day
training, to do that angry. That's the stuff you see in in
32nd clips on Instagram. But to actually do it, I just
don't think it's real. Some people it is, but I don't
think it's as real as everybody makes it out to be.
I, I would concur with that cause like for A5 Ki used to be

(39:08):
able to do that a lot say like somebody would pass me, I'd be
like. Do you?
What do you you get that angry just like, yeah.
But like for a 50K or more like 1/2, it just takes so much out
of you. So I would use like different
emotions like happiness, sadnessto, you know, keep propelling me
forward. But it just drains you more than
that. Like you said, the happiness

(39:30):
because that runner's high. You could ride with that a lot
longer. Not, you know, haters are
motivators. So, like, it might get you to
train more and, you know, want to push a little bit more, you
know, to get that Euphorian training.
But like you said, unless you know haters are your motivators,
you can't really use anger to accomplish a lot in running.

(39:53):
Yeah, I mean, and even stuff like, you know, your girlfriend
broke up with you or something, or you got a divorce or just
like a life thing. It's hard to to keep the anger
fueling forever. You know, you see these like
jokes with like lifters and stuff like they go on this this
weightlifting arc because they their heart was broken.
I mean, I'd like to really know of every single day of them

(40:15):
training is because they're pissed off at their, you know,
ex. Like, I just don't think it's
real. I mean, it is real in the
moment, but I just don't think there's any way you can continue
doing that every day just based on a 1 pinnacle like painful
point. If you are, I'm sorry you're
hurting, you know, and but I think there's a lot of beauty in

(40:36):
sports out of happiness. You know, you, you will
experience anger and pain in a sport, but not 100% of the time.
I would hate that. I mean, that's like doing a job
you hate for 12 hours a day forever.
And people that hate their job, I would challenge them and like
to see you're you're going to tell me you never joke or smile

(40:58):
at all. And that whole 12 hours a day,
every single day of the week. Now they're they're still have
somebody to talk to. If you truly hated it, truly
hated it, there's a good chance that Brian, I'm going to be
there at least long term. So I don't know how I got in
this part, but I'm sorry. No.
Either way, no, it was good because it's just you know a
good conversation if you know most people don't ever talk to

(41:21):
or about. SO you did Eastern states.
What was it a week ago? I guess the first question would
be how do you feel now like recovery wise I.
Feel good. Yeah, I feel good.
I the Sunday after I was terrible.

(41:43):
I couldn't even move. And yeah, we, we went back to
see the last couple hours of therace, not the last two hours,
but we saw probably 3 hours worth probably like hours 30 to
33. But then we drove 5 hours home
and, and when I got home, we unloaded the car and I was super
sore and then it was like 10:00 and I had to go to work the next

(42:04):
day and I get to work and I'm just so tired and just falling
asleep, you know. And, but Monday got out of work,
ran 10 miles and I was pretty rickety.
My body was like Tin man not moving very well.
And I'm glad I did that. I showed up with my two buddies

(42:27):
and they didn't think I was going to show up.
I didn't even tell them I was. And we ran 10 miles on the
towpath, which is a flat path here.
And are you from Ohio? Pennsylvania, like an hour, an
hour and a half east of Pittsburgh.
OK, yeah. So we don't have hills like that
over here. You know, we we have a something

(42:47):
I train on a lot. It's called the Towpath.
And there's a race that's actually held very popular 100
mile race here called Canal Corridor.
But it probably gets 1000 feet and 100 miles.
But we train on the towpath all the time.
So I did 10 miles there. And then luckily, Tuesday and
Wednesday, I was forced to not run because it was my brother's
wedding rehearsal and wedding inthose two days.

(43:09):
So it forced me to take two daysoff.
And I think that 10 miles was great to do because I was really
sore and helped flush things. But then by Thursday and Friday,
things are pretty normal. I ran A7K on Saturday.
It's called the Shawshank Hustle.
Felt pretty good. Yeah, that, that felt good.

(43:30):
I, I well, good. I guess I, my legs were still
sore, but we did, I did a 548 pace.
It felt really good. I mean for that, for that sense,
I guess. And then we did yesterday we did
a lot of trails. I think we did 26 miles.
That was good. So a week later things have have

(43:53):
smoothed out. I've done a lot of stretching
this week, a lot of sauna. You know, when I stand at work,
I'm doing a lot of hip movement.So that kind of accumulates to
the day. I'm like always opening my hips.
But we're back from normal good.Well, I guess I guess I should
have prefaced Eastern states with saying it's 103 mile race.

(44:15):
With. 20,000 feet of gain and descent on mostly or we'll say
what do they say 97% single or double track That's not
necessarily runnable at all, It's probably.
A lot of technical sections, yeah.
Especially at night when you can't see it's makes it harder.

(44:38):
Yeah, I mean, the rockiness and rootiness of that race for me,
and I haven't done a lot of races like outside of Ohio, but
that was very technical. I mean, it knows the locals,
man. They could just tackle those
trails. It was cool to see.
I mean it like, so mile 2, mile 2 is the most technical part of

(45:03):
the course. And that's not to say the rest
of the course isn't technical, but mile 2, they're like on the
slant and it's sandstone rocks like the whole time and just
little ones all over and roots and cutting around trees.
And there's like a drop off on the other side.
And I'm like running it and I'm like, Oh my gosh, this is not

(45:23):
easy. Emerald Mango like 10 times and
two miles. And I'm thinking, I didn't look
anything up on the race, which is just stupid.
I don't, I don't look into it too much.
I kind of look at the distance, the elevation and the weather.
And I didn't know how technical it was.
And it was very technical. And like I had heard that it
wasn't going to be muddy this year because it was dry.

(45:45):
So I knew that. And I still still wore trail
shoes, thankfully. I normally wear Rd. shoes on
trail races and this was a trailshoe race.
And yeah, that that's a crazy course.
And when I got to mile 17, whichis the crew, crew spot, first
time crew sees us, I got to my crew and I was like, guys, that

(46:09):
was a terrible 17 miles. I mean, the hills were insane.
And I said this is like 5 times harder than Georgia Death Race
because that's like all I've hadit to base it on because Georgia
Death Race has a crazy mile of elevation too.
You get 15,000 and 72 miles. So it's simple.
I mean, it's pretty, pretty similar to average per mile, but

(46:29):
the technicality for Eastern's way harder.
Yeah, luckily the star was like 55° though.
It was really nice. Yeah, I think the only thing in
PA that's comparable would be World's End, like Mile.
Yeah, I've heard that's figure out.
Yeah, it's it. To me that's like the only thing

(46:50):
in PA that's comparable but. It's it's so.
Hard to compare. Is it?
I mean Heiner seems pretty difficult.
Black Canyon seems pretty difficult I've heard.
I I would say Heiner's pretty runnable.
You could pretty much run all ofHeiner.
If you have some really good mountain legs, even the steep

(47:12):
hill, you could run that. Really.
Yeah. I'd like to go to Pennsylvania
more. That was my first race in
Pennsylvania. Yeah.
Yeah. And Oil Creek sounds fun.
I'd like to do that. Yeah.
I'd like to get out there more because it's crazy trails.

(47:33):
Yeah, Oil Creek should be a lot more runnable as well because
I've ran a couple smaller races up there, but they use like part
of the same course and I've like, it's a what A.
They get 7000 feet of elevation.Yeah, but I heard it's not as
technical like you're saying. Yeah, they do like a 13 mile or
Oil Creek stack race that I do like every year and I could, me

(47:58):
personally, I could run the whole course myself.
So like with your ability? Damn right, baby.
Yeah, you like you. You would have no problem
running it like. I mean, it's not.
There's some parts that I did like walk up a hill because
there's nobody around me but. How dare you walk?
You're allowed to walk, brother.Don't feel ashamed from somebody

(48:22):
seeing you walking. That's a part of the strategy,
man, I tell you what. So to that point was those first
couple hills, you know, I was like in 5th place early on and I
got passed by like 20 people andI'm like, OK, this is not the
race for me because I I trained some hills, but nowhere near
what they did. And I just didn't think it was

(48:43):
going to be a competitive day. I actually treated the race like
a non competitive race because Iwas like, I just want to do this
for fun. My a goal was burning River two
weeks prior and I just thought this one would be a cool
challenge. And these guys are flying past
me and I would take breaks and hold onto a tree and I'll just
stand there and breathe in and my calves are locked up.
We're all halfway up that friggin first climb.

(49:04):
It's like a 1200 foot climb and I get to the top like I swear
for the whole race is like this.I'm going to use all 36 hours.
I remember thinking that so much.
But the downhills and there is there is a good bit of flat in
the middle which makes it runnable.
There's like that 11 mile snowmobile route.

(49:27):
They say it's like a grass Meadow section and very
runnable. I mean, and in fact, one of the
guys had told me, he asked me ifI'd done the race before, and I
told him no. And he said just word of advice,
don't run yourself too hard on these 'cause you will burn your
legs out. And I was like, oh, that's good
to know. And he was right.
It was very flat. I mean, just slightly rolling

(49:48):
hills, but it was so runnable and pretty, too.
There's actually cell service there, which is nowhere else in
the whole course. And I called my wife.
She was just about to fall asleep.
Yeah. That that's one of the
downfalls. There's like no service so you
can't really see where people are at.
So I'm thinking maybe in anotheryear or two they get star Link
up there so we can get some morelive results.

(50:11):
You know what though? I liked it.
It was cool being disconnected. I, I didn't listen to any music
the whole day. I just didn't have, I didn't
talk to anybody other than the other runners.
It was just, it was cool being disconnected because normally I
have my Garmin live tracker on so my crew can see me the whole
time. And sure it helps them, but they

(50:34):
had to do some learning too, to,you know, link up with me and I
make them an Excel sheet and I give them like 6 or 7 columns
that when I show up to this aid station, if I'm at this time of
the day, I'm on track for this pace and they can expect me at
the next one. So there's like some things that
make it easy for them. But they had to do a lot of work
for Eastern. They, they are star crew.

(50:56):
At that point, I had four peoplehelping me.
If you get lost up there, you'rescrewed.
Yeah, yeah. And here's a good tip too for if
you're ever out of service. Google Maps.
I use Apple, right. But Google Maps, you can save a
radius on your phone. And so if you want to save a 500

(51:17):
mile radius, it might take up a gig on your phone.
But when you do that, you can use your GPS anywhere and and
it's easy. You don't have to have service
at all. So we've used that before and it
works great. Yeah, I I've never done anything
like that or looked into it. I just know was it last year or
the year before when I went up the help with an aid station?
I was trying to get the different or no, that was the

(51:39):
year I tried to find my buddy. My buddy was in the like the
middle of the course and I'm like, how the how do I get here
without GPS? Because I didn't know where he
was at the time, like on the course until I found out.
And I was like, oh, crap, I didn't know how to get there.
And Ben, Ben at the the race director Ben, he's trying to
tell me to take this road. And I'm like, I don't know,

(52:00):
somehow GPS you're sort of. Up the Creek, get that MapQuest
out. So you said you went pretty much
like nonchalantly and or not nonchalantly, but maybe your
expectations weren't as high forthis race as other races.
So what was your strategy then overall?

(52:22):
I because I didn't think I couldbe competitive and I had said
that for two weeks, like leadingup to the race and maybe I just,
I like stressed it too much, butI just didn't think I could be
well, I wanted something I wanted to work on for a while as
being calmer at transitions. And what I mean by that is like

(52:44):
I'll rush a lot when I get to aid stations.
I'll, I push through them, I flythrough them and I was like,
wow, this would be a good opportunity to just like take
two or three minutes, laugh at the volunteers, fill my waters,
just calm myself down. And that's what I did.
And I actually on top of that, Iwas running with people too for

(53:06):
the first like 30 miles and thatmade it fun because when I'm
racing it's really fun. But it gets so lonely, you know,
especially as you get fitter andyou are able to be competitive.
You get so far ahead that you know, let's say you're in 5th
through 1st place, you might notsee anybody the whole day and

(53:29):
that gets boring. And when I was in this race, I
was probably top 30, but we werejust hanging out joking.
I had a really good time. And when I'm with people, the
miles go by a little bit nicer, even though they were hard
sections, so. And I got to talk to people like

(53:50):
through maybe a mile 34. Yeah.
Yeah. Because then we did that flat
section. What's that?
I was pretty low during that. And that took us to Heiner.
So anyway, I think I just stayedcalm.
And I had a fuel plant and I always go in with a fuel plant.
I want to hit 100 grams an hour at least.
And I'm pretty good at hitting it now.

(54:11):
My stomach doesn't get upset or anything.
And we, I picked up my first pacer at 43.
Shout out to Courtney Clark. And that was at Heiner, and we
did 19 miles. That was nice.
Got to talk to her for a while. And by that point, when we got
to, I think it's called Toon Flats at 62, that was a big

(54:32):
river crossing. Yeah.
So we got there and I had overtaken 5th at that point.
I had finally been told. And actually when I was coming
in the high end, I was told I was in 7th.
I'm like, no freaking way. Like how?
And I was still thinking the doubts there like, well, I'm
still an idiot because there's so much more of the race and I

(54:55):
know I am not a local. And I said that to myself all
day. And I don't know why I kept
doubting myself. And because I had still done a
ton of volume of miles in the year, just not as much climbing
as I'd like to. And we got to 62 across the
river and I did a decent crew stop 4 or 5 minutes and I picked

(55:18):
up my second pacer. Shout out to Brad Trexler and he
did the last 41 miles with me and it was a long section and it
was hard, but having him and we're really good friends and we
stuck together obviously. And it just made it fun.
And I still played into my strategy, taking some time at
aid stations, and we eventually overtook a second.

(55:42):
Like that was at the mile 73. Yeah.
And it was just crazy. I was like, how the heck are we
in second right now? You know, I, I could not
believe. And I was like, we're if we play
our cards right, we're going to get podium.
And we got to the point where atat 80 1/2, I think that's where

(56:06):
we can meet crew again. It's like a Christmas themed aid
station. They have like, yeah, yeah, that
was that one. Yeah, Blackwell, that's what it
is. Well, we got there and Brad ran
over to the crew and I was goingto my drop bag first had my had
my drop bag out. One of the volunteers helped me
fill my stuff up because I had bottles filled in my handhelds

(56:26):
and I was like, all right, just lay it down for me.
How when did, when did first place leave?
She's like, he left at ten O 2 and it was 10/22 and I'm like,
no way. Like he's 20 minutes.
I said I I remember saying to her, I was like, you're kidding.
And she's like, no, I'm not. And I I'm like, all right, I got
to get this and I went over to my crew and I said, guys, he is
freaking 20 minutes ahead of us.And I was like, we got at least

(56:47):
try and, and me and Brad took off.
And I tell you, we were like on cloud 9.
I mean we were pushing and then after that there's just this
absolute monster climb and we were walking.
I mean, it's a hard climb. And we were on our way to sky
top. I think it's sky top and that
was a 85. Yeah, Sky top.

(57:08):
Yeah, So we get up to Sky Top and they would, they told us
that they let he left 20 minutesago.
I'm like, wow, we didn't gain any time, but it was good.
We're still holding time. And later we would find out
after the race we actually were only 13 minutes behind them,
which I don't know if that wouldhave helped then.

(57:30):
But the 20 minutes kind of like killed me a little bit because
I'm like, man, we didn't gain anything.
So we left Sky Top and I was pretty beat up and we were just
jogging it out. And there was just this time I
was going through a really low spot and Brad would just keep
talking to me and, and I wasn't talking back much.
I I was just hurting. And we just carried on.

(57:52):
And by the time we got to the 99aid station, because we went
through that next crew, he was still 20 minutes ahead.
We got to the next crew and thenwe got to the 99 aid station and
they said I think he still was 20 minutes.
Yeah. And from that point I knew I
couldn't catch him. I mean, it was 3.8 miles to the

(58:13):
end and he ended up beating me by 46 minutes.
So he he kicked it in gear hard and we were lacking because that
last four miles is extremely technical downhill.
It's not very runnable. Well, at the very end of the
race, 1/2 mile before the end, 3rd place comes up right behind

(58:34):
us and we were walking like downthat steep hill and the only
reason I knew is because Brad, my pacer was right behind me and
we've been walking and talking for a while and he's like Alec,
you got to go. I was like, what do you mean?
He's like dude, you got to go. He's I said why?
He's like, he's right behind us and I turn and see his head lamp
and I just start sprinting, likeimmediately start sprinting and

(58:56):
I am scared for my life. And we're this is a technical
hill still and I'm flying down this hill and we get up onto the
road and Brad stepped aside for him, which was cool.
So he just let him go because hewasn't going to try to run with
me and and that guy was chasing me.
And when I get up on the road and I take a right and I don't
even know where the heck I'm going and I get into the parking

(59:17):
lot and I see that the flags actually cut through the field
and I'm just seeing red At this point.
I'm running as hard as possible and it's dark and I see the
finish line and I am sprinting that race out and I end up
beating him, I think only by 20 seconds.
But that was a thrill. And I when he came through
finally, I'm like, that was awesome.

(59:37):
And I give him a big hug and he's like, I tried to get to
you. And it was it was a cool moment.
And just being able to run that hard after that many miles and
you know, when I didn't think I could really run anymore, it's
just amazing. That just shows the bodies got a
lot more. And I think my Strava said I ran
a 519 at the end to finish it off.

(59:58):
It was so fun. And then I couldn't walk after,
you know, you just spent everything you had.
So yeah, that that was just a fantastic race.
Just definitely one of my favorite experiences for 100
Miller. You finished the what, like 22
or 23 hours? 2316, yeah.

(01:00:23):
So that. Is five in the Yeah 5:15 or?
Yeah, 5 four. Yeah, 'cause it started at five.
Yeah, it was at 4:16 in the morning.
Yeah, so, yeah. So you're doing the last what?
Well, when did when would you say dark was for you?
Like what mile were you at, Thorke?

(01:00:45):
So we got to the aid station that we caught 2nd and that was
at mile 73. It's it's called like black.
It's not Blackwell, but it's there's another one.
So I think it's 73 'cause there's like a 6.8.
Yes, yes. Yeah, it's 72.7.

(01:01:08):
Yeah, 'cause then you head to the next three spot.
So yes, it was 72. And so when we got there we were
still in 3rd. We had no idea where second was.
And we get there and my routine was I hand the volunteers my
handhelds and I say, can you fill these up both, both with
water And I go use the porta potty.
And I'm in the porta potty for abit and I hear all these bells

(01:01:30):
going off and I'm like, son of bitch, 4th place is catching up
to us. And I, hey, pull up my pants
real quick. I get out of the stall and, and
Brad's like waiting there for me.
And it's like, Oh my gosh, we got to go.
And he's like, you know who thatis, right?
He's like, no. And he's like, second was
sitting here for 20 minutes and I'm like, really?
And apparently his stomach was blowing up.
And so we see him taking off andI'm, I drank my whole bottle of

(01:01:54):
water and I filled up again. And I'm like, we gotta go.
And we start going after him. And it was dark right there.
And the reason I know is becausewhen we're getting to that aid
station, it said 30 minutes to dark and we had three more
miles. I'm like, if we hold under 10
minute miles, it's gonna be darkright when we hit the aid
station. And it was just about, and when

(01:02:15):
we started chasing him, he was cruising up those hills.
And I'm like, he, he's being haunted and he knows, he knows
that it's, it's game now. And what was really cool about
that guy was we finally caught up to him, like after about a
mile and his headlamp disappeared.
And we're like, at least for me,I didn't see him.

(01:02:36):
And then we come over this Crest.
He's waiting there for us. And I was like, you're right.
He's like, there's a rattlesnake.
And I was like, oh, OK, And he'slike, just be careful.
And he waited for us. I mean, that was so cool.
And he wanted to show us where it was.
And he waited for us to pass. And it almost got us because I
couldn't see it when he was pointed out And I passed by it.
And then Brad, Brad was behind me and the thing was Slytherin

(01:02:59):
towards him and it was pissed. It was shaking its rattle and
everything. And, and we got passed in and,
you know, I, I shake his hand. I said, dude, thank you so much.
You know, that was really cool. And and he was not feeling good.
He said the downhills are reallybothering his stomach and the
uphills were fine. He said his legs were good,
which that got in my head a lot because I'm like, well, if his
legs are good, you know, as soonas his stomach starts feeling

(01:03:22):
better, he's crushing me becausemy legs weren't feeling good.
But I don't know. He didn't end up.
He wasn't third. I never even got his name.
I who knows? Yeah.
I don't know where he finished. I I'd have to look at the
results. I knew that was, I think Gabe
Baddorf was third overall, yeah.And then Michael Busada was

(01:03:46):
first, yeah. I like Gabe, I ran with, well,
not with him, but in the same race as him a few times.
So the cool thing about Gabe, and he could attest to this too.
So before we got the tomb flats,there's a long downhill section
and I came up to him and he was in 5th and he was walking, just

(01:04:11):
walking slow and he wasn't feeling good.
And I come up to him and I gave him some tough love and I was
like what's up dude? And he's like I'm dropping or he
said I'm done. And I was like, what do you mean
you're done? He's like I I just didn't have
the training for this. And I was like, you know the F
word? I was like the heck you didn't.
And and I was like, it doesn't even freaking matter at this

(01:04:32):
point, man. I said do not drop.
Like it pissed me off because I was like, don't freaking drop.
I said you're 62 miles into a race and you got to believe in
yourself and I said you get to this aid station and you eat
like 200 grams of carbs. I said I don't care if your
stomach hurts, sit there for 20 minutes, just eat these carbs

(01:04:52):
and start walking again. And I talked to him for probably
2 minutes and he thanked me, butI could tell he was just beat
the hell up and I went ahead andthen sure enough, this freaking
dude comes back for 3rd place. And that made me so happy he
didn't drop. And what's crazy, and I don't
know if he uploads everything toStrava.
When I looked at his Strava, yeah, he was only running like

(01:05:14):
10 or 20 miles a week. So that's insane.
He did 3rd place, you know, to our point earlier.
And I don't know if that's all he's Yeah, he is.
And he's like 40 or something. And he crushed that.
Like it was so cool that it was him that that was like.
And me and Brad had joked about it for a while.

(01:05:37):
I was like, watch, it's probablythat guy that that I talked up
early. He's going to come back and take
our souls. And he was, it was him.
Yeah. So that was cool.
Yeah, he's he, He. If I go on east, like towards
Philly, I'll run into him. Like if I do anything big out
there, he stays on that side, soI'm kind.
Of thankful for that. But he's he's a really stand up

(01:05:59):
guy. I can't say anything bad about
him because he's he yeah, the times that I was met up with him
and are at the same race, he's always a stand up guy.
So. Oh.
He seemed so nice. Yeah.
I mean, it was. It was really cool.
It was nice. Give him a hug.
And he seemed really nice. And his kids were there at a lot
of the aid stations and. Yeah, I do have a rattlesnake

(01:06:22):
story for you. OK.
So that last like 2-3 miles. I don't know if you know there's
a rattlesnake dead. Yeah, and they told us about
that. And I tell you, we were on edge
for miles and we never saw it. There was no rattlesnakes.
And I was. Brad and I were tiptoeing,
especially around the big boulders, because that's where

(01:06:44):
we thought it would be. I'm like, dude, the amount of
stress we had in the last two miles was not needed.
I thought it was a joke. I thought it was a joke
eventually because I I figured it was just a newbie like
initiation thing. You know why?
What's your story? I got to hear about this.
So my buddy John, I was pacing him.
I don't even know how many years.
It was probably like 3-4 years ago.

(01:07:05):
Now we see these two guys up in front of us with that, you know,
last couple miles you're like hold up Snake or whatever.
So we stopped because they did the same thing that guy did for
you. Like they stopped to make sure
the next runner knew and that was sort of like the protocol at
the time. So we're watching, there's
actually 2 rattlesnakes mating on the and it was just, I'd I

(01:07:29):
have a video somewhere, it's really grainy from an old phone,
but like the one was trying to like it was pulling the other
one away still connected. It was just one of the one of
the coolest, one of the coolest but weirdest things I've ever
seen in the woods in my life. Well, because you mentioned that
after Heiner Ron, when I picked up Courtney a mile in there was

(01:07:49):
2 black rattlesnakes all coiled together mating.
That was cool. I'd never seen anything like
that in my life. And luckily they were in attack
mode because they were in getting in on mode.
It's. Yeah, it's definitely a weird
area up there. Yeah, yeah.
Did you see anything else like wildlife or have any other
encounters? My crew saw porcupines when we

(01:08:15):
got there. The packet pick up the day
before the eagle's nest. Trailheads right there.
So we saw a couple bald eagles. But when I was on the trail, I'd
only seen three snakes. It was the two mating ones and
then the one later I told you about.
Yeah, we saw some deer, actually.

(01:08:36):
A mouse jumped on my leg. I forgot about that.
So he was running across. I could see him.
It was at night. And he eventually jumped onto my
leg. And I was like, what the heck?
And it just ran away. And I was like, Brad, a mouse
just jumped on my leg. And he's like, you're
hallucinating. I swear.
I'm not. You know, other than that, lots
of millipedes, you know, like those little long millipedes.

(01:08:59):
Yeah. Nothing other than crazy.
One thing was running in the ferns and it was short enough to
be under the ferns. It was probably like 3 foot high
and we didn't know what it was and it was moving quick.
It made us a little nervous so we kind of stopped, but we never
saw what it was. It could have been, just who
knows. Well, there was a rabid fox up

(01:09:20):
there. There's two of them that week
before. Oh geez, that wouldn't.
They got one of them but I I'm not sure exactly where it was
but I saw it on the Eastern States Facebook page.
They got one, but the one was still out there somewhere.
Oh my gosh, not not a good day to get rabies, that's for sure.
Let me see what else I guess. What drew you to the race to

(01:09:44):
begin with? So a local runner here, a friend
of mine named her Carol Youngblood.
She had signed up for the race last year.
This is so random. She signed up for the race.
I saw it on Facebook and I messaged her and asked her about
it and I think I signed up like that day.
It was just last October. I just thought it sounded fun.

(01:10:07):
I, I had heard the name. Everybody knows what Western
States is at this point, but I'dheard Eastern States.
I was just like, oh, you know, this just sounds cool.
And I don't know, you know, I knew, I knew some other runners
that have done it. You know, I got a friend named

(01:10:27):
Rich Angel. He had showed up the last year
when it got cancelled. Brian Papay and Rick Holman,
they've both run it, both incredible runners.
Brian's placed like top five, top ten and two hundreds out
West. And then Rick Holman's ran like
5600 milers. He actually just did it again
this Saturday or this past weekend or whatever.

(01:10:48):
So I knew some local guys that have done it and it just seemed
cool, right? Like I said, I'm, I don't look
into the course enough and that's not like something I'm
proud of. I just, I don't know, I just
kind of go on a whim and it's not much that I can train for
other than the vert. I mean, you can't really work on
the technicality. Maybe I'm pouring Legos on my

(01:11:11):
treadmill or something, but it'snot easy if you.
Do that please take a video. I'll go viral with that, yeah.
A couple little like tidbits I wanted to ask you about.
How did you feel the course marking was to some of the other
courses that you've done? I think it was marked really

(01:11:33):
well. There's only like a couple
little like iffy sections and the 90 mile or yeah, I think it
was on the way to sky top. And the only reason was, is
because one, it was at night andtwo, it literally wasn't a
trail. You're just running in the
middle of the woods and it was like a pine needle section or

(01:11:55):
something. And we would get to a pink flag
and you couldn't even see the next pink flag.
I mean, but that's just like little stuff.
Actually, I was, I even said afterwards like I was impressed
to how well it was marked. Honestly, this race was so well
done out of a lot of the hundreds or any altars I've

(01:12:15):
done. I mean it is like really, really
well supported. Aid stations are solid.
The markings are great. I mean they the photography is
crazy. I am amazed all that stuff's
free. It is like they hired pro teams
to go out there and they probably are pro but like it.

(01:12:36):
I have loved that aspect, the after, you know, things cool,
there's, you know, 'cause I finished hundreds in top three
and you get to the end and it's just like, good job, you know?
But yeah, see you later. And then, yeah, I mean, and, and
that's no shame to them, but youknow, this one, you know, the,

(01:12:56):
the director is there and he's there to, you know, congratulate
you. And there's like, you know,
people cheering and stuff, you know, and there wasn't a ton of
people there, but it felt like a, a big ending.
So I, I'm very impressed with the race.
And I'm not even just saying that because we're talking about
it. I just think it's, it was an
awesome race. I have a lot of good things and
the course is just beautiful. What another really cool thing,

(01:13:20):
and that actually did drive me to the race was that it was 1
loop. That's so cool.
You don't get that very often. Usually it's outbacks or
multiple loops or, and this was like, wow, you get to see new
stuff the whole time. You know that that's freaking
cool. That's like, to me, what really

(01:13:40):
an ultra is because you are actually making progress,
especially point to points. You know, that's insane.
But a big loop that's that's pretty cool.
Yeah, I know Lincoln, PA, we tryto do that sort of get you the
views and get you to see everything.
That area specifically has the offer I think.

(01:14:01):
I think David Walker was the onethat created this.
I could be wrong or maybe he wasjust the race director before
Ben and then and the previous one Jeff took over.
But like they set it up and whenthey do races, they set up see,
like we'll just say like Ben andIronstone, like he has it set
up. So the majority of the runners

(01:14:22):
are going to be seeing this one view rate it dust.
So like you get the sunset. So like RPA people, I like to
brag. Oh no, you should.
I mean, heck yeah. We really do a good job when we
try to set up an actual course that we want people to
experience. Like granted, you're going to
have some that are in it for themoney and they really don't

(01:14:43):
care. But I would say the good trail
community, like the Rock Sylvania trail community, they
put such an effort into their races.
It's second to none, I would sayin the world.
I I will say that. Hey, you should brag about your
state dude. And aid stations.
Yeah, I mean, the aid stations were great.

(01:15:06):
That was that was fun. They had some bomb ass French
toast sticks at the very last one.
That was so good. Yeah, I, I, I would like, well,
I tell people, again, out of personal experience, I see PA
aid stations are the best in theUnited States just because we

(01:15:27):
love volunteering and doing whatwe're doing.
Like we're not, again, few and far in between, you know, don't
care. But I would say in PA, we
emphasize we're there to have fun and enjoy, but we're there
to specifically make sure the runner's having a good time and

(01:15:47):
we're taking care of the runner where you don't see that.
I've been to some other races and they're just like, oh,
here's a water drop or here's some food, you know, be on your
way. Some goldfish crackers.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I would agree with that.
Yeah, I remember when you, when you have volunteers that are
runners, you know, or that have been in the sport or just love

(01:16:08):
for the sport and who the heck volunteers for a race that
doesn't like the sport, you know.
And I think they were all very welcoming.
I didn't have any, any run insurance with anybody.
I mean, and actually it's I've had some issues with other races
in the past where people are just like lazy or rude.
Not that I need to be attended to, but it's more of, you know,

(01:16:31):
hey, I'm a participant. Like, you don't have to treat me
poorly, you know, I I I don't know.
Yeah, I yeah, I And like, for the money you spend on Eastern
states, what is it, like $300 tosign up?
And it's so worth it. I mean you get your.
Body's worth for sure, both physically and mentally.
Oh yeah, physically, for sure. And then your buckle's really

(01:16:55):
cool. Yeah, my money does.
Brown runs Age Station, which islike 26.
Oh, so that, that was great. That was like a big change in
the race for me. And they were all having fun
there. And I ate some perogies there.
That was one of my only solid foods I had all day.
It was the perogies. But when I got the 26, I felt a

(01:17:18):
lot better. And I, I thought, I don't know
why we had like a long downhill section of that point.
And then you, you run these pretty technical spots along
this Creek for a while. And there just things clicked.
And I was actually, like, jokingwith some of the volunteers,
too. And they were hooting and
hollering. They're all rowdy there.
And I think that really pumped me up.

(01:17:39):
Yeah, I remember that one a lot.Yeah.
This. Yeah, that probe is good.
I believe, I believe it's, I believe it's Brown's run, 'cause
there's like a right, there's like a road right there or
something. Yeah, yeah, there's a road to
get to that. Yeah, like you said, it's a it's
a long downhill and then you popout like I think you have to
cross a Creek too. No, that one.
Well, there's a road next to it,but you don't run on the road.

(01:18:01):
But yes, you do have to cross a Creek I think.
It's it's either Brown's run. Well, because there's a section
before that that's super runnable and it's flat.
It's downhill for a long time, but it's gradual downhill, not a
steep downhill. There was another one that's
like gradual for a good bit and you do cross a Creek and they

(01:18:24):
actually have a lot of pictures from that one.
I might be mixing stuff up in myhead, but I know for sure the 26
aid station because I remember thinking it was a marathon.
That one, I felt good. Yeah.
They. They would have had a baby
there. I don't know, I remember a guy
had a big like he had the shirt on with a huge like flaming lion

(01:18:49):
trying to think it all gets. Confusing once you're.
Running it, there's so much to remember.
I mean you could probably write a book after running 100 mile at
eastern states. Yeah, and any 100 mile for that
matter, you know, it's you, you go through a lifetime when
you're running 100 miles. And I, I've said for a long

(01:19:11):
time, I think every time you finish 100 mile or your brain
just tweaks a little bit, you just you, you, you re, you
rewire your brain just a hair, 'cause you, you have to, there's
a lot of trauma that goes with that and.
Do you change shoes at all 'cause or gear?
Because I noticed early on you just had like 2 handhelds.

(01:19:32):
Now, did you keep with that throughout the race or did you
actually put a pack on or anything?
Yeah, I stayed with the whole thing all race, Same thing, all
right. I haven't changed shoes much in
my life of racing. I mean, I think it was like 2
times ever and one of them was just because I wore trail shoes

(01:19:53):
in the beginning when it was muddy and then when it dried up,
I put my Rd. shoes back on by this one, this one, I didn't
change one bit of gear. The only thing I put on later
was an ice bandana around my neck.
I like keeping the same shoes onbecause look, I'm going to get
blisters. But I mean, unless it's like

(01:20:16):
really damaging your foot, you're going to put another pair
of shoes on and probably still have blisters and it's still
going to burn and you're going to face the the risk.
Of your foot swelling up when you take it out of your shoe and
then you can't fit into your next shoe unless the shoes
really bothering you. I just stick in it.
You know, I I wear the topo ultra ventures.

(01:20:36):
I love those shoes and I like Rd. shoes a lot more.
But for trail shoes, they work pretty well.
Yeah, yeah, I wear the same stuff, same handhelds.
They're 218 oz handhelds and I'mnot a fan of packs unless I'm
forced to use them just because I just hate having stuff in my

(01:20:56):
shoulders, just feel hot, claustrophobic.
Now I've used them before, but like, well, the pack, if I can
hold 218 oz handhelds on my hands, that's 36 oz.
With a pack, you're not really going to have that much more
water capacity, you know? You're just going to have more
pockets. Put a bunch of stuff sometimes.
Sometimes we overpack and I did that a lot early on.

(01:21:19):
My ultra running is I would takeall this stuff with me and then
I end up not even using it. The aid stations already
provided for you and out here out east, from what I can tell
compared to out West because I haven't done many out West
races. I've done one, but we have it
pretty good in the sense of we have aid stations frequently,
whereas races out West, I've heard you could go 10 to 15

(01:21:43):
miles without an aid station. And that's tough.
You, you have to really pack forit with five to six miles, even
if you're going 20 minute pace, it's not gonna be the longest
time in the world. You know, in Eastern states they
have porta potties, every singleaid station.
They're well stocked. They have everything.
They have ice. I mean, there's not anything I

(01:22:05):
can imagine you have to carry other than fuel and water.
Yeah. Yeah I'm a waste pack guy.
I have like AI actually just bought the new speed goat 4
point O that holds like two 20s in the back and my phone in the
front. And stuff like that.
Yeah, 'cause I wear a big waste pouch for all my gels and phone,

(01:22:25):
but I haven't been interested totry one of those things that
hold bottles. That seems cool.
Yeah it I would reckon 100% recommend the speed GOAT 4 point
O. Yeah.
Because the three I I didn't Raider, I was going to make a
video the review, but just off the top of my head, this one
cinches a little bit tighter to my waist because I got a small
waist and it doesn't come as loose as the three-point O.

(01:22:49):
That's why I said you got to getmake sure you get the four point
O the one that just came out like 2 weeks ago.
That's cool. And if you're going to use two
handhelds like the two 20s, that's not going to make a
difference. And I honestly don't notice it
on my waist at all. Yeah, yeah, that's cool 'cause
I, I love a waist pouch. I think it's really convenient.

(01:23:11):
And what your problem is, like you said, is same thing for me
is I never can find them where they can tighten up enough.
So I actually duct tape the straps a lot.
Yeah. So that's funny.
Everybody's like, what do you, what's all this tape?
And I'm like, well, I just can'ttighten it enough, you know?
You know, it keeps loosening it up and.
Yeah, the three-point OI had to do that.

(01:23:31):
This one seems like the materialis a little bit rougher so it
sticks, but it's only a couple weeks old so I gotta.
Yeah. And when you're holding two 20s,
it's a lot of weight for the belt and it will start bouncing.
So that happened in the middle of Eastern states.
My, my waist belt, the duct tape, I didn't tape it enough
and it's the sweat got it and actually loosened up and it's

(01:23:54):
bouncing on my back and my butt.I'm like, Oh my gosh.
And I got to an aid station later and I saw they had duct
tape and I was like, can you guys help me out real quick?
And we wrapped the heck out of it and it was so much better.
It was tight to my waist and I felt like relieved, you know?
Well, I always tell people now too is hard flasks over soft

(01:24:15):
flasks for waist belt because itdoesn't.
So once it shrinks a little bit,like you're not getting that
bounce, the water doesn't jiggle.
I mean, it's going to jiggle inside the box, but it's tighter
against your body with a hardness.
Oh you you. So you would rather have a hard
flask? OK, I'll definitely have to keep

(01:24:35):
experimenting that. Naked belt, I don't know if
you've seen the naked belts likethey always they said they use
well, they give you like an 18 oz bottle and it just bounced on
my ass the whole time and then Igot 29 oz from Nathan hard ones
and put in there. There's no more balance.
Yeah, yeah, it's just like, evenif it's whatever it's full or

(01:24:58):
empty, it's still something hardthat'll hold in place.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, 'cause I use these things, they're like
these, Nathan, they're soft flasks, but they at least have
like a handle. You know, you probably saw them
in the pictures, but. Yeah, your your arms don't.
You don't feel like your arms don't get tired with that extra
weight. No, I mean, when I was when I

(01:25:23):
first started doing ultras, I hated handhelds because I
thought they would make my arms sore and I like having my hands
free too. But no, not really because I'm
not full for very long. So like, you know, because it is
like a pound in each hand. And but like let's say there's a
Six Mile 8 station section, I'llhave them drank, at least have

(01:25:47):
one drank by mile 3 and then I'll drink the other one before
I get the next aid station. So I mean, I guess it is for a
decent bit. I don't know.
I don't really notice that part very much.
Maybe you're just stronger than me.
I know I notice it because I gotthe, I got the weak columns.
But. Wait, I don't.
What about your? I noticed no strips?

(01:26:09):
You you wear a lot of no strips.Do you feel that helps you at
all? I think it does.
I like breathing through my nose.
I think it calms me down and I, I had this like big change of
training the way I breathe like a couple years ago, physical
therapist here, legendary runner, bro Wyatt, He
recommended me one time that he's like, well, the better way

(01:26:31):
to breathe is through your nose.And I was like offended and
like, I've been running for years and what do you mean it's
through your nose? I can't breathe through my
freaking nose. And, and it, it bugged me enough
where when I went home, I went on the run and I gave it a try
and I, I could run in the nines at that point, but when I tried
through my nose, I was like 12 to 13 minute pace.
I was gasping for air. I'm like, how the heck do you

(01:26:52):
breathe through your nose? And so I listened to two books,
the Oxygen Advantage and Breath.And it really like changed my
perspective and I kept trying itand trying it and I could
breathe better over time. And I started really adopting
the idea of breathing through the nose.
And I think it brings the heart rate down a little bit if you do

(01:27:12):
it frequently enough. It's not to say it's bad to
breathe through your mouth, but I think it's, I think it's
better for your oxygen consumption and your stress
levels to breathe through your nose.
So the reason why the nose strips is one of my nostrils
shuts if I breathe too hard and it's just something simple.

(01:27:33):
So like when I wear the nose strips, it's really easy to
breathe through the nose and I like the way they feel.
I kind of got them on a whim because my wife had bought
something and it was something completely unrelated.
And when it came in the mail, came with a trial pack of these
hostage tape nose strips. And I tried them and I'm like,
oh, I love the way these feel. So I bought a year supply and

(01:27:54):
this is like 2 years ago becauseI don't wear them every day and
I probably still have, you know,100 of them and I just wear them
during races. It always looks silly and you
know, but I like them. Hey, if it works, it's not
silly. Yeah, yeah.
Well, I guess last question about Eastern States, well, A2

(01:28:16):
parter, how was night running and the atmosphere overall at
Eastern States? How was night running, you said?
Yeah, and the atmosphere overallat the race at Eastern States.
Night running was eerie because it's silent, you know, and and

(01:28:39):
it wasn't, it was a full moon that night, which is cool.
And we would start, we stopped at one point and where she's
like, let's just listen. And it was just nothing.
I mean, and that's freaking coolbeing out in the wilderness.
I love running a night. I've done it for a long time.

(01:29:02):
I am an afternoon runner, a evening runner.
I don't run in the morning. And when it gets night time it
just it's so freaking cool. And I think I thrive in the
night a little bit. I've done like 12 hour night
runs and that this stuff just I enjoy it.
So I think I had a lot of fun when it was night time.
Sure, it's freaking hard to see.And I did just buy a new

(01:29:24):
headlamp at the Expo the day before.
It was the the the highest, the best pencil that they have out
right now. And it's like 120 bucks.
And I was like, I don't know if I want to get this.
And good thing I did because it was nice and bright.
And I always put a lace lamp around head lamp around my waist
too. So I have two.
But the night was really cool. It was just hard because of how

(01:29:46):
technical it was, you know, and and then the atmosphere.
Are you talking about like people atmosphere or just like
atmospheric? OK, Atmosphere's great.
Everybody was happy. You know, any time I was around
a runner, it was like, I just felt like we were in this really

(01:30:09):
hard challenge together. But they were good spirits, you
know? And everybody was in a good mood
as much as you could be, you know?
And it was really cool having mycrew out there.
So we got an Airbnb right over on Trout Run, I guess, and it
was, you know, my 2 Pacers, Courtney Clark and Brad Trexler.
And then, you know, my best friend Tommy Sharp, and I'll say

(01:30:32):
one of my best friends. I don't have a single best
friend. My only best friend's my wife,
right? He's my brother.
We've been brothers for a long time.
Fantastic guy. He's stellar crew too.
And he came out to crew me and then obviously my wife was out
there to crew me. And they both did a great job
navigating and stuff, too. So that that was really cool to

(01:30:54):
have all four of them out there.And I think we're going to go on
more adventures together for sure.
But yeah. And they actually had fun
talking with the other crews andstuff and navigating and getting
to other aid stations. And they, they also went to go
see stuff while they're out there too.
So I'm glad that was fun for them.
Yeah. Well, not to talk about the

(01:31:16):
speed guilt again, but. Oh, that's fine.
You said about the waste like anextra headlamp around your
waist. What's cool about the speed goat
is you could right now you couldeither clip it on or it's an
interchangeable front that makesit a waste light too.
Oh, it's like built in. Yeah, you could.
Well, I think the four, you can buy a clip for it.

(01:31:39):
I know the three. There was an interchangeable
front that Ultra Spire sells like 800 lumens.
So that's what I do too. Like I pasted one of my friends
at Laurel Highlands a couple weeks ago and I wore a headlamp
and waist belt. So you get the two different
shadows get like taken out. It makes a yeah, yeah, you
probably know, like the the way the both lights hit completely

(01:32:03):
different. Well, I'm glad you say that
because nobody really ever talksabout that.
And that's why I started trying the waist belts, because it
casts a different shadow that you could see better.
Yeah. And I never thought about that.
I was like. Yeah, 'cause what I 'cause that
the waste lamp obviously is going to stay in front and then
you can still turn your head andnot lose.

(01:32:24):
You might lose like 1/2 a secondotherwise.
What do you think those people that put those lights on their
shoes? I, I don't know.
There's no way that's easy. You've seen what I'm talking
about though, right? Yes.
There's no way that's efficient.And the the more light the
better in like an eastern state's atmosphere.
Yeah. So I guess really the last two

(01:32:47):
questions, because I know it's probably running late for both
of us, is there. Well, the first question is, is
there anything you're looking toapprove on or looking forward to
in the near future? Yeah.

(01:33:10):
I mean, I just think, I just think just, I don't really know.
I just like to continue to trainand, you know, I'm signing up
for OK, yeah, I want to keep trying different races because I
like repeat stuff here in Ohio because it's so convenient.
But yeah, I I'd like to keep trying different races.

(01:33:32):
However, conflicting with that, I have a long term goal that I
want to try to take though 100 mile records in Ohio.
So that'll be fun. Who knows if it ever happened,
but there's seven hundreds rightnow, which is a lot and two of
the hardest. So they were all owned by Arlen

(01:33:53):
Glick at one point. And he he just swept the state
and just left a legacy, you know.
And Mohican and Burning River will be the hardest for sure.
However, canal corridor being a flat course, I don't know if you
heard the name Caleb Bowen. So he he came over here two or
three years ago and ran a freaking 12:40 on that course.

(01:34:16):
So that's cruising. I do decently well flat.
So I would like to contest that here in a couple years for my
fitness takes decline. Who knows when that'll be, but
as long as I keep having fun. So mixture between both.
I want to keep traveling and I Ijust have to get more PTOI don't
have a lot of PTO. That's the only you know, that's

(01:34:39):
the that's what limits me. But.
Our money. Money.
Our money, yeah. And now, and that's like
something that I've hoped for was not the money thing, but
obviously, but it would be cool to pursue a sponsorship if
anybody would ever want to. And I try not to let it stress

(01:35:00):
me out, but it's just going to take a lot of work.
And if that ever gave me the opportunity to be able to do
more of this stuff, that would be so freaking cool.
And and that's my dream is that somehow or another have the
ability to run more and race more and travel more.
You know, I think that's what everybody wants, but we're all
stuck in the machine of working.You know, that's just how it

(01:35:22):
works. You know, we have to put in our
time and but then for working onthings, I just want to keep
training and the principles thatI believe in and do some cross
training too. I got into some biking earlier
this year, not outside. I just get on the bike at the
gym and just bike, you know, just to work other things.

(01:35:46):
But I do do want to use that to my advantage and see if I can
get faster and stronger and justkeep ripping it out.
Nice. Well, I think a sponsor is
pretty much in your future sometime soon with like your
resume now, it's kind of shockedthat nobody nobody has yet.

(01:36:07):
I've gotten turned out a lot, but you know, not like I'm
anything special. And I believe I truly mean that.
Like, yeah, I've won races, but I sign up for a lot of races too
and that just saturates the percentage.
And you know, there's not a lot of attention on people out east.
It's like an out West thing. So I'm actually trying to get

(01:36:27):
into Javelina right now. So that would be a fun thing to
compete at, but I'd really try not to stress myself out about
it because I don't want, you know, the nervousness of trying
to get with a company to roll the fun I've always had.
I just hope that if I can ever get picked up, they will support

(01:36:49):
my vision of trying to just, youknow, break human limits and
have fun and adventure. And because I I'm not gonna not,
I'm not going to only sign up for two races a year.
I can't do that. I, I love doing every race, you
know, and yes, I can't be doing 100 mile every weekend, but I
love doing 5 KS and 1 milers and10 KS and everything.

(01:37:11):
And if that's not in their vision, then I guess I just will
never be sponsored because I hada lot of exposure.
Yeah. You would think that would be
the benefit, right? Yeah, but anytime you ever like
apply for any of these things, and maybe I just haven't seen
the right, right routes, but anytime you ever apply, the
first question is how many Instagram followers do you have?

(01:37:34):
Well, not that many. Hey, whatever.
I mean, it's a it's a, it's a marketing thing.
And I totally understand that, you know, if you own the
business, you know, you, you're,it's got to be in it for both
parties, you know all. Right.
Well, the last thing I had, which is something I'm going to
try to do every interview now, is I want to ask people for tips

(01:37:58):
for new people running or a tip in general you want to share
with the masses. Probably one of the most cliche
things you've ever heard. But literally find your why.
And it doesn't have to be the hardest, most beautiful thing
ever. And you aren't going to find it

(01:38:21):
before you start running. You will find it when you get
out there every day or every other day and move.
And your why will change over time too.
But find a reason you like it. And I think that something that
really helped me for a long timeis, well, I would say two

(01:38:42):
different things is running withother people and not running
with music. And I know that sounds like
maniacal, but don't run with anything like be in your own
thoughts. Look around, just think because
through our whole day, we are inthe car, listen to music on the

(01:39:04):
way to work. We're at work either working on
a machine, serving customers on a computer and then we're on our
way home, listen to music or a podcast or whatever.
And then we get home and we're playing on our phone.
What I'm getting at is we never have a time to ourselves, ever.
You don't think to ourselves. And then people wonder why you
lay down at night and your brains going, well, when you go

(01:39:26):
run, let that be your time to think to yourself, give yourself
back some thoughts. And I believe in that a lot.
Now, I listen to music here and there when I run, but mostly I
don't because there's a lot of fun and being in your own self.
So I and when you're first starting a mile is going to be

(01:39:47):
really hard, but just do it. And if you have to walk 3/4 of
that mile, just get the mile done and and don't constrict
yourself to, you know, you do 1 mile.
And if you feel good, don't justsay all right, I'm done.
If you want to go an extra 10th of a mile, go an extra 10th of a

(01:40:08):
mile. You're not, you're not breaking
any rules. You know, there are no rules.
There's no rules. So don't let the Internet freak
you out. You know, if you could do
whatever the heck you want, you know, I don't know.
That's convoluted answer, right?Just just have fun.
It's not, you know, we're not going to the Olympics.
Maybe some of you are, but we'renot going to the Olympics.
Just have fun. Yeah, I'm, I'm not going.

(01:40:29):
Hey, we're we're working there. All right.
Well, I guess that's all I had, unless you had something else
you wanted to add. No, I don't think so.
No, I think I'm good. I was going to.
I was going to go into the wholecomparison about like Burning
River and Eagle Up and Mohican and stuff, but I think the

(01:40:51):
conversation was way better thanthe way we did it.
So I think it's, yeah, good rapping point, I guess.
Cool. Sorry, thank you for coming on
and I'm welcome to forward to seeing what you do next because
I know it's going to be amazing and stay healthy, stay having
fun and hopefully I'll run into you soon.

(01:41:12):
Thank you. And likewise I I really do
appreciate you having me on. It's it's cool you reached out.
Thank you. Thank you.
Thank you for listening to the episode today.
If you or anyone you know has any amazing stories, adventures,
or interesting information you or they may want to share,
please reach out to me anytime. On the next screen, you could

(01:41:35):
scan the QR code or type in the link tree website to easily find
all the social media locations. Only on Athletics is located.
Take a second and hit the followbutton as you visit each one.

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