December 27, 2024 • 22 mins
In this episode of Open Seat, Joe Baker shares his transformative experiences with the Holy Spirit throughout his life. From unexpected job opportunities to profound personal realizations, Joe reveals how faith and spiritual encounters have guided him. He discusses significant milestones, including his time in the army, his involvement in the Charismatic Renewal, and meeting his wife Pat. Joe's stories provide insight into how he came to love himself and others, emphasizing the importance of making an impact in one's own corner of the world. Tune in for an inspiring conversation about faith, forgiveness, and personal growth.
This is a podcast of Holy Family Parish, located in Adrian MI. We are a Catholic people, not a place, striving to Live Jesus through celebrating the sacraments and forming disciples in Adrian and beyond.
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Open Seat es un podcast Parroquia de la Sagrada Familia ubicada en Adrian, Michigan. Somos un pueblo católico, no un lugar, que se esfuerza por vivir a Jesús celebrando los sacramentos y formando discípulos en Adrian y más allá.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Joe (00:00):
Don't ever let yourself get overwhelmed with, how
(00:03):
could one little person,you know, make an impact?
Well, you make one impact onone person, and, you've made
the world a better place.
Welcome to Open Seat, thepodcast where we create
a space for authenticconversations about faith,
unfiltered and unapologetic.
Here, we believe thatevery story matters.
(00:25):
Whether you're questioning,seeking, or steadfast in
your beliefs, you'll findsomething relatable in
these heartfelt discussions.
So grab your seat, getcomfortable, and let's
dive into today's storyhere at Open Seat.
so today on the Open Seat,we have Joe Baker with us.
(00:45):
Thank you for joining us, Joe.
Nice to be here.
Katie (00:48):
How, how are things going for you?
Joe (00:50):
Life is good.
Katie (00:52):
So, let's talk about Joe.
What do you want totell us today, Joe?
Joe (00:56):
I thought I would give some highlights of my life via
the Spirit, the Holy Spirit,encounters with the Spirit.
And I'm sure that theystarted before I realized
that they were happening.
I'm sure of that becauseas I reflect back on
things that happened inmy life, I think, that
wasn't just a coincidence.
(01:17):
And it certainly wasn'tbecause of anything I did
or earned or deserved.
But good thingshave come my way.
I remember being inmy backyard one time.
This was after I, graduatedundergrad about two weeks
before the beginning of theschool year, and I got a
call from somebody I wentto college with and she
(01:39):
said, you got a job yet?
And I said, no.
And then she said, well,they're needing another
religion teacher atDivine Child High School.
Would you be interested?
I don't know.
I'm not a teacher.
I didn't take any educationclasses, but what's the class?
And she said, well, theyneed somebody to teach all
of their marriage and familyliving class to their seniors.
(01:59):
And I say, well, thatsounds like God calling.
I didn't say that,but now I realize it.
And so I took that job anyway.
So that was just one ofmany instances that would
have been a long time ago.
I forget what year.
(02:20):
So I want to go backto the fall of '68.
That would have been myfreshman year in high school.
So I had gone to a Catholicschool, K through 8.
And then the Catholicschool in my hometown
of Perry, Iowa, closeda few years before that.
And so I had to goto the public school.
(02:41):
Well, in our Catholicschool, there was about
26 of us, I think, thatgraduated from the 8th grade.
And we were, Isuppose, typical kids.
Just because we wereat a Catholic school
doesn't mean that wewere all that Christian.
We had these thingscalled slam books.
So it was a spiral notebookand you put down somebody's
(03:01):
name on the top of each page.
Then you passed it aroundand you put your initials
on it and you made somecomment about that person.
Katie (03:07):
I think I've seen something like
this in Disney movies.
Joe (03:10):
Was it an old one?
Katie (03:11):
Yeah.
Well, relative.
Joe (03:14):
This was back in '67.
It would have been at any rate.
So the kids that were popular,of course, people said nice
things about them, and thekids that weren't, we said
nasty things about them.
And I don't want to mentionany names, but I was certainly
one that was joining the groupand saying nasty things about
a few girls and a few boys.
(03:35):
One of the girls, I'm gonnasay her name, Christine Moll.
As I recall, shewasn't a good student.
She was really quiet,but she was, I guess we
thought she was homely.
So when I went to the highschool the next year, I walk
in one direction and Christineis walking another direction
with somebody I don't know.
I'm glad she found afriend, and I pretended
(03:57):
like I didn't see her.
So I'm kind of lookingthe other way and
looking down or whatever.
And well, guess what?
My spiral notebook wassticking out a little too far
and a wire at the bottom ofit got hooked on her sweater.
Oh, so it was likethis forced encounter.
It's like, Oh, hi, Christine.
(04:18):
I didn't see ya.
And I felt really bad.
I felt really bad.
And when I tell thatstory, when I think of that
story I think of what Isaw when I looked at her.
And I saw a beautiful face.
She was very peacefuland quiet and
wouldn't hurt a flea.
(04:38):
Which made me feel even worse.
And so I think that wasa calling that, you need
to straighten up your actand treat people right.
And So, that I thinkwas, a connection
for us by the Spirit.
Katie (04:53):
Yeah, I, I think that still occurs today, right?
Maybe not with thebooks, but just in how we
treat people in general.
Joe (05:01):
Yeah, and sometimes we need to get whacked.
I think
Katie (05:06):
Is what A god two by four, huh?
Joe (05:08):
Yeah, something like that.
Okay, so then I'll skipahead to the fall of 74.
I was in the army.
I was a chaplain's assistantbecause I didn't want to
bear arms I was working inthe at Fort Ben Harrison.
It was unlike othermilitary bases.
We had a lot of retiredpersonnel in the area.
(05:30):
And so they had enoughCatholic people that came
to, Mass there on a weekendthat they at some point they
dedicated one chapel to bejust the catholic chapel.
Katie (05:40):
Oh, yeah That's very unusual
Joe (05:42):
very unusual.
Yep.
And so I was workingin the protestant
chapel the base chapel.
I had a little moreaptitude than the
average G.I., I suppose.
And they appointedme funds clerk.
So I was taking care ofthe money from them that
the chapel took in asofferings and paying bills
and so forth So I'm upin the balcony of the post
(06:06):
chapel, which was used byall different Protestant
denominations, and theCatholic chaplain walks in,
he's got this bellowing voice,and he says, Private Baker!
Yes, chaplain, Iunderstand you're Catholic.
Yes, chaplain, but you'regoing to work for me.
(06:26):
So, I was Yanked out of
Katie (06:29):
the protestant world and Back into
Joe (06:32):
the Catholic and I took my books with me.
I was still funds clerkbut chaplain Bykowski he was a
diocesan priest from Chicago.
It was a big Polish guyNorbert by Kowski a bellowing
voice great sense ofhumor great homilist, very
(06:54):
gregarious personality.
We shared the same birthday.
Katie (06:58):
Oh, well that's essential.
Joe (07:00):
That, well, it was coincidental.
[laughter] but he, allowed methe room to question the faith
that I had drifted away from.
And, I had, a couple ofyears before that, gotten
married at a young age for thewrong reasons and he helped
me through the annulmentprocess and, answered my
(07:22):
questions about the CatholicChurch that I quit asking
because I didn't like theanswers I was getting.
And so he was very muchan instrumental, part
of my faith development.
Katie (07:32):
I'm assuming he's passed away at this point.
Joe (07:34):
He has, five years ago or so.
Katie (07:36):
But did you keep in touch long after?
Joe (07:38):
We did, absolutely.
Every year, Christmas cards.
He was a major when Iknew him and he retired
as a full colonel.
And then, was stilldoing, weekend duty in,
around Chicago area.
Mm hmm.
Loved the men.
Ha, ha, ha.
That was in the fall of '74.
So I stayed with the church.
when I'd go home on theweekends, my mom and
(07:58):
dad were involved inthe charismatic renewal.
Oh yes.
And I started tipped mytoes in those waters.
And
Katie (08:05):
It was really popular in the eighties, right?
Joe (08:08):
Yeah.
Seventies and eighties.
Yeah.
Seventies and eighties.
That, deepened my faithlife in a way that strictly
Catholic didn't provide, moreencounters with the spirit.
In the fall of 77, Igot out of the service
in the spring of '77.
In the fall of '77, I met Pat.
Katie (08:28):
Oh, your lovely wife today.
Joe (08:30):
My lovely wife today.
And, that was Holy Spirit.
Certainly.
I was dating a couple ofdifferent young ladies and
wasn't really going anywhere.
And my sister, I have fivesisters, but the one sister
that is the quietest amongthem, she kept telling me,
(08:51):
there's this girl at workand she's really nice.
I think you'd like her.
And that was theextent of her sails.
Katie (08:59):
That was a good pitch, wasn't it?
Were you thinking it wasChristine coming back to?
Joe (09:05):
Shame on you.
It was a good one though.
Again, it was morethan I deserved.
Pat was more than I deserved.
And so the rest is historyas far as that goes.
Katie (09:25):
Yes.
Well, history in terms of, youknow, three sons and a, and a
wife of how many years later?
Yeah.
Joe (09:32):
a number that's over 40, 45.
Katie (09:37):
That's good.
Joe (09:38):
45 years.
And, it's been a great life.
It's getting better every year.
spring of '78.
Okay, so I I was justfinishing up my first
year of college aftergetting out of the service.
And I didn't know what I wasgoing to do during the summer.
And my brother in law hadhis own concrete business
and he was telling me I hadto start my own painting
(09:58):
business because I was, Ihad done a lot of painting.
And I kind of, yeah, whatever.
I didn't see myselfas a business owner.
I didn't have, well,Anything that required,
including a car or a truck.
Katie (10:14):
Well, you were, you were also a social
worker graduate, right?
Joe (10:18):
No, this was undergrad
Katie (10:19):
still.
Oh, undergrad, okay.
Joe (10:20):
So, I had done some painting for a lady a friend
of my mom's during theschool year not getting paid,
with the understanding thatonce she sold the house,
then I would get paid.
So I'm at school, towardthe end of the school year.
I usually, I was walkingdistance from home.
I was living with my parents.
I would usually just go toclass and then walk home.
But this day, for whateverreason, I hung out in the
(10:43):
Roost, little coffee shop,with a couple of friends
and before I went home, Ineeded to use the bathroom.
So I went into abathroom that I had
never been into before.
And on the wall there was a3x5 postcard and it said a
1971 Ford Ranch Wagon, StationWagon, was for sale for $450.
(11:09):
Interesting.
I washed my handsand I went home.
When I got home, I found outthat the lady had stopped
by with a check for %500.
Katie (11:17):
Oh, that's quite a bit of money.
Joe (11:19):
Well, yeah, then it was.
It was enough to buy a car.
Katie (11:24):
Yeah.
Joe (11:26):
And get the plates transferred.
Katie (11:27):
I was gonna say, maybe a little gas too.
Joe (11:30):
Well, it had some gas in it.
It got me started.
So that was the beginningof Joe's painting
and home repair.
So I followed his advice andI kept that business going
right through the rest ofundergrad and grad school.
And it worked quite wellto supplement Pat's income
(11:51):
while I was going toschool on the GI Bill.
That story I have used severaltimes as my testimony for
belief in the Holy Spirit.
Katie (12:03):
Oh, the, the painting business story.
Joe (12:04):
Yeah.
The little postcard on thewall there that it just, it
was there for me, you know,at just the right time.
Never been in thatbathroom before.
The check came that day.
I mean everything lined up.
I didn't cause that to happen.
Katie (12:18):
Well, right.
Cause you, I mean, youdidn't even know how much
you were going to get paidfrom the woman for painting.
Joe (12:23):
No, I didn't.
Katie (12:24):
So when it just came, yeah.
Perfect.
Everything just works outwell, and I'm sure Pat was
probably relieved becausethen you could help supplement
the income a little bit.
Joe (12:33):
Well, that was before we were married.
Katie (12:34):
Okay.
Well, you could takeher out on some dates.
Joe (12:39):
On something other than my unemployment check.
I'm just kidding.
Shh.
Don't tell.
Shouldn't have beengetting that, but I did.
around that time, I had anexperience at a charismatic
prayer meeting thatreally changed my life.
Right prior to thisexperience, during a
(12:59):
break, of a class thatI was taking at the
University of Detroit on St.
Augustine.
Father John O'Malleywas the instructor.
It was a very good class.
We happen to be inthe bathroom together.
Katie (13:11):
Do you just hang out in bathrooms, Gerald?
These stories areall involving one
central location.
Joe (13:17):
Well, we take care of needs as they arise.
[Laughter] And, I don't knowexactly the words he used,
but he said, he asked me ifI was okay, and I said, yeah.
And he said, youdon't look okay.
And he said somethingabout, you have this sad,
hurt look on your face.
I said, I think I'mjust somber and serious.
(13:38):
And so he left and I waslooking in the mirror
and it looks like I'velooked for a long time.
When I'm looking inthe mirror, I don't
think I'm hurting foranything in particular.
so not too long after that,I was at this prayer meeting
and we were going around andpeople were sharing things,
whatever, that they wantedprayer for or and at some
(14:00):
point, it occurred to methat I was very happy with
who I was at the moment.
That I felt reallygood about myself.
And the next thought was,everything that's happened
to me prior to this broughtme to where I am today.
So I'm gonna just accept it all.
The good, the bad, the ugly,the good things I did, the bad
(14:21):
things I did, the bad choices.
people I've hurt,Christine Moll.
And I was just, I felt freed.
I probably tearedup, I'm sure I did.
Thank you mom, forthe gift of tears.
Laughter And, so then I was in aposition to get married.
I had, I was able tolove myself and now I
(14:43):
could really love Pat.
Katie (14:45):
So do you share that story with the marriage prep?
Cause you're doingmarriage prep now.
So do you share with themthat they have to love
themselves before they can?
Joe (14:54):
Well, maybe I will today.
Yeah.
As a matter of fact.
Katie (14:56):
Cause I think that's a really important
thing that not a lot ofpeople would realize.
And that's a beautifulstatement, what you
just made there.
I can't love another personunless I love myself.
Joe (15:08):
I've preached that before.
And, and I haven't, haven'talways realized when
it became true for me.
Katie (15:16):
and, you know, that's I think the second part of the
greatest commandment, right?
Love your God with all yourheart, your soul, your might.
Everybody gets that part.
But love yourneighbor as yourself?
Well, if I don't lovemyself, then I cannot
love somebody else.
I think you really shouldshare that with those
marriage prep couples, becauseI think it's important.
Joe (15:35):
The other part of loving Pat, I put together just
recently, I was preparingfor an RCIA class, and I
read that prayer is justconversation with God.
And I was kind of botheredby that when I started
to think about, most ofmy prayer is either a
(15:55):
prayer of thanksgiving,a prayer of adoration,
or a prayer of petition,asking for something.
There's no conversation.
I just sit down andI start praying.
And then it, somehow,I got whacked and he
said, you know what?
God started the conversationwhen he put those things in
my life that I'm thankful for.
(16:16):
When he gave me the gift offaith that enables me to pray
and to ask and to believe.
And so I'm thinking onthat and I remember back
to a time when Pat andI were still dating.
I'm not sure we were evenengaged at that point.
And she saw me in Iwas in pretty rough
shape, from alcohol.
And, and she loved me anyway.
(16:40):
She just hugged me sotight and, and, I think
there was some more tears.
And so, yeah, that'ssomething I do share.
Not the events, but theidea that we love because
we were loved first.
And that's theconversation with God.
He started it.
Katie (16:58):
He did start it.
He's probably gonna finishit too, but I'm just gonna
Joe (17:03):
He's gonna get the last word?
Katie (17:04):
Wouldn't argue that one, buddy.
You might lose.
That's a very goodthought though, too.
He first loved usso we can love.
And the idea of prayer justcontinuing as a continual
conversation, I always thinkabout that Philippians, where
it says, pray without ceasing.
And I'm like, man,I don't have time to
pray without ceasing.
Are you kidding me?
My boss keeps me reallybusy, like it can't happen.
(17:28):
But it's just thecontinual idea of the
conversation never ceasing.
This with God.
Joe (17:33):
Yeah.
Being aware that he's aware.
Katie (17:35):
That's it .Actually, to remind me of that,
my boss though, kindlyput a candle on my desk.
I hate the smell of theYankee candles that flow
so freely through thisoffice area, but, for Lent,
he gave me the penanceto put one of those lovely
smelling things on my deskAnd it is really good because
(17:58):
it reminds me not only whenthat scent is triggering
my nose But also just theflicker of the candle that I
am always in God's presenceso it just never ends God
always gets the last word eventhough I put it out at night
Joe (18:11):
I thought of something else I wanted
to share, and that was thebest advice I ever got.
From Chaplain Bykowski.
One of the things that Iwas struggling with was
the evil in the world.
There was so much evil in theworld, all over the world, and
how could I fix it, you know?
or in some conversationwas, What he figured out
for himself was he couldn't,but what he could do was
(18:36):
whatever he could do in hislittle corner of the world.
And that is what I, tookfrom that, and have tried
to do since then, is whenopportunities arise for me
to do some good, to help, tobe involved with something
that is trying to help otherpeople to not say no to that.
And to this day I don't spenda lot of time worrying about
(18:59):
the rest of the world, inthis country or any other
country in the planet.
what does matter is what youdo with where you're planted.
Katie (19:07):
Blooming where we're planted, right?
Francis DeSales.
you know, Joe, honestly,I think you're retired.
Although your litany of jobscurrently in your corner of
the planet is pretty long.
Joe (19:17):
I keep busy.
Katie (19:18):
That's an understatement.
With the food pantry, themarriage prep, RCIA, I
don't even know what else.
But I know those three things.
And you're a main componentof those three things.
So it's not just a littlebit of time, but, but quite
a bit that you put in.
But I think that's reallygood advice for people who
are struggling right nowbecause there are a lot of
(19:40):
people who are strugglingright now with things that
are happening in the world.
So maybe people will starthelping in their little areas
and beautifying communities,Groundwork effort.
Joe (19:52):
Yeah, don't ever let yourself get overwhelmed with,
how could one little person,you know, make an impact?
Well, you make one impact onone person, and, you've made
the world a better place.
That is so true.
Katie (20:06):
That is very, very true.
I just have one questionbecause you've been talking
about the Charismatic Renewal.
So, do you think thatthat has been instrumental
in helping you find theHoly Spirit in your life?
Because I think that's,the Holy Spirit's an
underutilized resourcethat we have in our faith.
But do you think theCharismatic Renewal
really woke you up toseeing the Holy Spirit?
Joe (20:29):
Yes, definitely in the Renewal, in the
Charismatic Renewal, theHoly Spirit was a big player.
And not that the Holy Spiritisn't active anyway But like
you say to recognize and toseek out and to give credit to
Katie (20:45):
that's it.
I mean the gifts and thefruits of the Spirit I
think could help us with alot of things in this world
and our individual Livesit's just not recognized.
Joe (20:55):
Yes
Katie (20:56):
And you you did a Cursillo right?
So did that helpstrengthen some of that?
Joe (21:00):
Maybe.
It was a million years ago.
It was a long time ago.
And I think I wasprobably already living
some of it, a lot of it.
It didn't have the impacton me that it has had
on, heard that it hashad on a lot of people.
It wasn't a bad thing.
But it It's long.
Katie (21:21):
Well, it is four days, yes.
Not, not often areyou requested to give
a four day weekend.
Joe (21:28):
Well, and then just to listen to other people.
That's, that's a lot oflistening.
And I am a good listener,and that's why I chose
the profession that I did.
And so, When I'm donelistening, I'm tired.
Because it's work.
Katie (21:46):
This is true.
This is very true.
Yes, that's why I say I gohome alone and I don't even
use my phone generally whenI go home after a day's work.
Because you're right.
It is, it's intense stuff.
Well, Joe, I cannot thankyou enough for sharing
your wisdom with the HolySpirit with us today.
I know.
the Holy Spirit is stillvery much alive in your life.
(22:07):
It didn't end in the 80sand before but it continues.
Joe (22:11):
Oh, yes
Katie (22:12):
continue to be visible and Thank you for sharing
your wisdom freely withRCIA and marriage prep and
all of us today becauseyou have a lot to give
Joe (22:22):
It's a privilege and an honor
Katie (22:24):
Once again, we thank you for joining us today.
We hope that wherever youfind an open seat in your
life, you will invitesomeone to join you.
Don't ever let yourself get overwhelmed with, how
(00:03):
could one little person,you know, make an impact?
Well, you make one impact onone person, and, you've made
the world a better place.
Welcome to Open Seat, thepodcast where we create
a space for authenticconversations about faith,
unfiltered and unapologetic.
Here, we believe thatevery story matters.
(00:25):
Whether you're questioning,seeking, or steadfast in
your beliefs, you'll findsomething relatable in
these heartfelt discussions.
So grab your seat, getcomfortable, and let's
dive into today's storyhere at Open Seat.
so today on the Open Seat,we have Joe Baker with us.
(00:45):
Thank you for joining us, Joe.
Nice to be here.
Katie (00:48):
How, how are things going for you?
Joe (00:50):
Life is good.
Katie (00:52):
So, let's talk about Joe.
What do you want totell us today, Joe?
Joe (00:56):
I thought I would give some highlights of my life via
the Spirit, the Holy Spirit,encounters with the Spirit.
And I'm sure that theystarted before I realized
that they were happening.
I'm sure of that becauseas I reflect back on
things that happened inmy life, I think, that
wasn't just a coincidence.
(01:17):
And it certainly wasn'tbecause of anything I did
or earned or deserved.
But good thingshave come my way.
I remember being inmy backyard one time.
This was after I, graduatedundergrad about two weeks
before the beginning of theschool year, and I got a
call from somebody I wentto college with and she
(01:39):
said, you got a job yet?
And I said, no.
And then she said, well,they're needing another
religion teacher atDivine Child High School.
Would you be interested?
I don't know.
I'm not a teacher.
I didn't take any educationclasses, but what's the class?
And she said, well, theyneed somebody to teach all
of their marriage and familyliving class to their seniors.
(01:59):
And I say, well, thatsounds like God calling.
I didn't say that,but now I realize it.
And so I took that job anyway.
So that was just one ofmany instances that would
have been a long time ago.
I forget what year.
(02:20):
So I want to go backto the fall of '68.
That would have been myfreshman year in high school.
So I had gone to a Catholicschool, K through 8.
And then the Catholicschool in my hometown
of Perry, Iowa, closeda few years before that.
And so I had to goto the public school.
(02:41):
Well, in our Catholicschool, there was about
26 of us, I think, thatgraduated from the 8th grade.
And we were, Isuppose, typical kids.
Just because we wereat a Catholic school
doesn't mean that wewere all that Christian.
We had these thingscalled slam books.
So it was a spiral notebookand you put down somebody's
(03:01):
name on the top of each page.
Then you passed it aroundand you put your initials
on it and you made somecomment about that person.
Katie (03:07):
I think I've seen something like
this in Disney movies.
Joe (03:10):
Was it an old one?
Katie (03:11):
Yeah.
Well, relative.
Joe (03:14):
This was back in '67.
It would have been at any rate.
So the kids that were popular,of course, people said nice
things about them, and thekids that weren't, we said
nasty things about them.
And I don't want to mentionany names, but I was certainly
one that was joining the groupand saying nasty things about
a few girls and a few boys.
(03:35):
One of the girls, I'm gonnasay her name, Christine Moll.
As I recall, shewasn't a good student.
She was really quiet,but she was, I guess we
thought she was homely.
So when I went to the highschool the next year, I walk
in one direction and Christineis walking another direction
with somebody I don't know.
I'm glad she found afriend, and I pretended
(03:57):
like I didn't see her.
So I'm kind of lookingthe other way and
looking down or whatever.
And well, guess what?
My spiral notebook wassticking out a little too far
and a wire at the bottom ofit got hooked on her sweater.
Oh, so it was likethis forced encounter.
It's like, Oh, hi, Christine.
(04:18):
I didn't see ya.
And I felt really bad.
I felt really bad.
And when I tell thatstory, when I think of that
story I think of what Isaw when I looked at her.
And I saw a beautiful face.
She was very peacefuland quiet and
wouldn't hurt a flea.
(04:38):
Which made me feel even worse.
And so I think that wasa calling that, you need
to straighten up your actand treat people right.
And So, that I thinkwas, a connection
for us by the Spirit.
Katie (04:53):
Yeah, I, I think that still occurs today, right?
Maybe not with thebooks, but just in how we
treat people in general.
Joe (05:01):
Yeah, and sometimes we need to get whacked.
I think
Katie (05:06):
Is what A god two by four, huh?
Joe (05:08):
Yeah, something like that.
Okay, so then I'll skipahead to the fall of 74.
I was in the army.
I was a chaplain's assistantbecause I didn't want to
bear arms I was working inthe at Fort Ben Harrison.
It was unlike othermilitary bases.
We had a lot of retiredpersonnel in the area.
(05:30):
And so they had enoughCatholic people that came
to, Mass there on a weekendthat they at some point they
dedicated one chapel to bejust the catholic chapel.
Katie (05:40):
Oh, yeah That's very unusual
Joe (05:42):
very unusual.
Yep.
And so I was workingin the protestant
chapel the base chapel.
I had a little moreaptitude than the
average G.I., I suppose.
And they appointedme funds clerk.
So I was taking care ofthe money from them that
the chapel took in asofferings and paying bills
and so forth So I'm upin the balcony of the post
(06:06):
chapel, which was used byall different Protestant
denominations, and theCatholic chaplain walks in,
he's got this bellowing voice,and he says, Private Baker!
Yes, chaplain, Iunderstand you're Catholic.
Yes, chaplain, but you'regoing to work for me.
(06:26):
So, I was Yanked out of
Katie (06:29):
the protestant world and Back into
Joe (06:32):
the Catholic and I took my books with me.
I was still funds clerkbut chaplain Bykowski he was a
diocesan priest from Chicago.
It was a big Polish guyNorbert by Kowski a bellowing
voice great sense ofhumor great homilist, very
(06:54):
gregarious personality.
We shared the same birthday.
Katie (06:58):
Oh, well that's essential.
Joe (07:00):
That, well, it was coincidental.
[laughter] but he, allowed methe room to question the faith
that I had drifted away from.
And, I had, a couple ofyears before that, gotten
married at a young age for thewrong reasons and he helped
me through the annulmentprocess and, answered my
(07:22):
questions about the CatholicChurch that I quit asking
because I didn't like theanswers I was getting.
And so he was very muchan instrumental, part
of my faith development.
Katie (07:32):
I'm assuming he's passed away at this point.
Joe (07:34):
He has, five years ago or so.
Katie (07:36):
But did you keep in touch long after?
Joe (07:38):
We did, absolutely.
Every year, Christmas cards.
He was a major when Iknew him and he retired
as a full colonel.
And then, was stilldoing, weekend duty in,
around Chicago area.
Mm hmm.
Loved the men.
Ha, ha, ha.
That was in the fall of '74.
So I stayed with the church.
when I'd go home on theweekends, my mom and
(07:58):
dad were involved inthe charismatic renewal.
Oh yes.
And I started tipped mytoes in those waters.
And
Katie (08:05):
It was really popular in the eighties, right?
Joe (08:08):
Yeah.
Seventies and eighties.
Yeah.
Seventies and eighties.
That, deepened my faithlife in a way that strictly
Catholic didn't provide, moreencounters with the spirit.
In the fall of 77, Igot out of the service
in the spring of '77.
In the fall of '77, I met Pat.
Katie (08:28):
Oh, your lovely wife today.
Joe (08:30):
My lovely wife today.
And, that was Holy Spirit.
Certainly.
I was dating a couple ofdifferent young ladies and
wasn't really going anywhere.
And my sister, I have fivesisters, but the one sister
that is the quietest amongthem, she kept telling me,
(08:51):
there's this girl at workand she's really nice.
I think you'd like her.
And that was theextent of her sails.
Katie (08:59):
That was a good pitch, wasn't it?
Were you thinking it wasChristine coming back to?
Joe (09:05):
Shame on you.
It was a good one though.
Again, it was morethan I deserved.
Pat was more than I deserved.
And so the rest is historyas far as that goes.
Katie (09:25):
Yes.
Well, history in terms of, youknow, three sons and a, and a
wife of how many years later?
Yeah.
Joe (09:32):
a number that's over 40, 45.
Katie (09:37):
That's good.
Joe (09:38):
45 years.
And, it's been a great life.
It's getting better every year.
spring of '78.
Okay, so I I was justfinishing up my first
year of college aftergetting out of the service.
And I didn't know what I wasgoing to do during the summer.
And my brother in law hadhis own concrete business
and he was telling me I hadto start my own painting
(09:58):
business because I was, Ihad done a lot of painting.
And I kind of, yeah, whatever.
I didn't see myselfas a business owner.
I didn't have, well,Anything that required,
including a car or a truck.
Katie (10:14):
Well, you were, you were also a social
worker graduate, right?
Joe (10:18):
No, this was undergrad
Katie (10:19):
still.
Oh, undergrad, okay.
Joe (10:20):
So, I had done some painting for a lady a friend
of my mom's during theschool year not getting paid,
with the understanding thatonce she sold the house,
then I would get paid.
So I'm at school, towardthe end of the school year.
I usually, I was walkingdistance from home.
I was living with my parents.
I would usually just go toclass and then walk home.
But this day, for whateverreason, I hung out in the
(10:43):
Roost, little coffee shop,with a couple of friends
and before I went home, Ineeded to use the bathroom.
So I went into abathroom that I had
never been into before.
And on the wall there was a3x5 postcard and it said a
1971 Ford Ranch Wagon, StationWagon, was for sale for $450.
(11:09):
Interesting.
I washed my handsand I went home.
When I got home, I found outthat the lady had stopped
by with a check for %500.
Katie (11:17):
Oh, that's quite a bit of money.
Joe (11:19):
Well, yeah, then it was.
It was enough to buy a car.
Katie (11:24):
Yeah.
Joe (11:26):
And get the plates transferred.
Katie (11:27):
I was gonna say, maybe a little gas too.
Joe (11:30):
Well, it had some gas in it.
It got me started.
So that was the beginningof Joe's painting
and home repair.
So I followed his advice andI kept that business going
right through the rest ofundergrad and grad school.
And it worked quite wellto supplement Pat's income
(11:51):
while I was going toschool on the GI Bill.
That story I have used severaltimes as my testimony for
belief in the Holy Spirit.
Katie (12:03):
Oh, the, the painting business story.
Joe (12:04):
Yeah.
The little postcard on thewall there that it just, it
was there for me, you know,at just the right time.
Never been in thatbathroom before.
The check came that day.
I mean everything lined up.
I didn't cause that to happen.
Katie (12:18):
Well, right.
Cause you, I mean, youdidn't even know how much
you were going to get paidfrom the woman for painting.
Joe (12:23):
No, I didn't.
Katie (12:24):
So when it just came, yeah.
Perfect.
Everything just works outwell, and I'm sure Pat was
probably relieved becausethen you could help supplement
the income a little bit.
Joe (12:33):
Well, that was before we were married.
Katie (12:34):
Okay.
Well, you could takeher out on some dates.
Joe (12:39):
On something other than my unemployment check.
I'm just kidding.
Shh.
Don't tell.
Shouldn't have beengetting that, but I did.
around that time, I had anexperience at a charismatic
prayer meeting thatreally changed my life.
Right prior to thisexperience, during a
(12:59):
break, of a class thatI was taking at the
University of Detroit on St.
Augustine.
Father John O'Malleywas the instructor.
It was a very good class.
We happen to be inthe bathroom together.
Katie (13:11):
Do you just hang out in bathrooms, Gerald?
These stories areall involving one
central location.
Joe (13:17):
Well, we take care of needs as they arise.
[Laughter] And, I don't knowexactly the words he used,
but he said, he asked me ifI was okay, and I said, yeah.
And he said, youdon't look okay.
And he said somethingabout, you have this sad,
hurt look on your face.
I said, I think I'mjust somber and serious.
(13:38):
And so he left and I waslooking in the mirror
and it looks like I'velooked for a long time.
When I'm looking inthe mirror, I don't
think I'm hurting foranything in particular.
so not too long after that,I was at this prayer meeting
and we were going around andpeople were sharing things,
whatever, that they wantedprayer for or and at some
(14:00):
point, it occurred to methat I was very happy with
who I was at the moment.
That I felt reallygood about myself.
And the next thought was,everything that's happened
to me prior to this broughtme to where I am today.
So I'm gonna just accept it all.
The good, the bad, the ugly,the good things I did, the bad
(14:21):
things I did, the bad choices.
people I've hurt,Christine Moll.
And I was just, I felt freed.
I probably tearedup, I'm sure I did.
Thank you mom, forthe gift of tears.
Laughter And, so then I was in aposition to get married.
I had, I was able tolove myself and now I
(14:43):
could really love Pat.
Katie (14:45):
So do you share that story with the marriage prep?
Cause you're doingmarriage prep now.
So do you share with themthat they have to love
themselves before they can?
Joe (14:54):
Well, maybe I will today.
Yeah.
As a matter of fact.
Katie (14:56):
Cause I think that's a really important
thing that not a lot ofpeople would realize.
And that's a beautifulstatement, what you
just made there.
I can't love another personunless I love myself.
Joe (15:08):
I've preached that before.
And, and I haven't, haven'talways realized when
it became true for me.
Katie (15:16):
and, you know, that's I think the second part of the
greatest commandment, right?
Love your God with all yourheart, your soul, your might.
Everybody gets that part.
But love yourneighbor as yourself?
Well, if I don't lovemyself, then I cannot
love somebody else.
I think you really shouldshare that with those
marriage prep couples, becauseI think it's important.
Joe (15:35):
The other part of loving Pat, I put together just
recently, I was preparingfor an RCIA class, and I
read that prayer is justconversation with God.
And I was kind of botheredby that when I started
to think about, most ofmy prayer is either a
(15:55):
prayer of thanksgiving,a prayer of adoration,
or a prayer of petition,asking for something.
There's no conversation.
I just sit down andI start praying.
And then it, somehow,I got whacked and he
said, you know what?
God started the conversationwhen he put those things in
my life that I'm thankful for.
(16:16):
When he gave me the gift offaith that enables me to pray
and to ask and to believe.
And so I'm thinking onthat and I remember back
to a time when Pat andI were still dating.
I'm not sure we were evenengaged at that point.
And she saw me in Iwas in pretty rough
shape, from alcohol.
And, and she loved me anyway.
(16:40):
She just hugged me sotight and, and, I think
there was some more tears.
And so, yeah, that'ssomething I do share.
Not the events, but theidea that we love because
we were loved first.
And that's theconversation with God.
He started it.
Katie (16:58):
He did start it.
He's probably gonna finishit too, but I'm just gonna
Joe (17:03):
He's gonna get the last word?
Katie (17:04):
Wouldn't argue that one, buddy.
You might lose.
That's a very goodthought though, too.
He first loved usso we can love.
And the idea of prayer justcontinuing as a continual
conversation, I always thinkabout that Philippians, where
it says, pray without ceasing.
And I'm like, man,I don't have time to
pray without ceasing.
Are you kidding me?
My boss keeps me reallybusy, like it can't happen.
(17:28):
But it's just thecontinual idea of the
conversation never ceasing.
This with God.
Joe (17:33):
Yeah.
Being aware that he's aware.
Katie (17:35):
That's it .Actually, to remind me of that,
my boss though, kindlyput a candle on my desk.
I hate the smell of theYankee candles that flow
so freely through thisoffice area, but, for Lent,
he gave me the penanceto put one of those lovely
smelling things on my deskAnd it is really good because
(17:58):
it reminds me not only whenthat scent is triggering
my nose But also just theflicker of the candle that I
am always in God's presenceso it just never ends God
always gets the last word eventhough I put it out at night
Joe (18:11):
I thought of something else I wanted
to share, and that was thebest advice I ever got.
From Chaplain Bykowski.
One of the things that Iwas struggling with was
the evil in the world.
There was so much evil in theworld, all over the world, and
how could I fix it, you know?
or in some conversationwas, What he figured out
for himself was he couldn't,but what he could do was
(18:36):
whatever he could do in hislittle corner of the world.
And that is what I, tookfrom that, and have tried
to do since then, is whenopportunities arise for me
to do some good, to help, tobe involved with something
that is trying to help otherpeople to not say no to that.
And to this day I don't spenda lot of time worrying about
(18:59):
the rest of the world, inthis country or any other
country in the planet.
what does matter is what youdo with where you're planted.
Katie (19:07):
Blooming where we're planted, right?
Francis DeSales.
you know, Joe, honestly,I think you're retired.
Although your litany of jobscurrently in your corner of
the planet is pretty long.
Joe (19:17):
I keep busy.
Katie (19:18):
That's an understatement.
With the food pantry, themarriage prep, RCIA, I
don't even know what else.
But I know those three things.
And you're a main componentof those three things.
So it's not just a littlebit of time, but, but quite
a bit that you put in.
But I think that's reallygood advice for people who
are struggling right nowbecause there are a lot of
(19:40):
people who are strugglingright now with things that
are happening in the world.
So maybe people will starthelping in their little areas
and beautifying communities,Groundwork effort.
Joe (19:52):
Yeah, don't ever let yourself get overwhelmed with,
how could one little person,you know, make an impact?
Well, you make one impact onone person, and, you've made
the world a better place.
That is so true.
Katie (20:06):
That is very, very true.
I just have one questionbecause you've been talking
about the Charismatic Renewal.
So, do you think thatthat has been instrumental
in helping you find theHoly Spirit in your life?
Because I think that's,the Holy Spirit's an
underutilized resourcethat we have in our faith.
But do you think theCharismatic Renewal
really woke you up toseeing the Holy Spirit?
Joe (20:29):
Yes, definitely in the Renewal, in the
Charismatic Renewal, theHoly Spirit was a big player.
And not that the Holy Spiritisn't active anyway But like
you say to recognize and toseek out and to give credit to
Katie (20:45):
that's it.
I mean the gifts and thefruits of the Spirit I
think could help us with alot of things in this world
and our individual Livesit's just not recognized.
Joe (20:55):
Yes
Katie (20:56):
And you you did a Cursillo right?
So did that helpstrengthen some of that?
Joe (21:00):
Maybe.
It was a million years ago.
It was a long time ago.
And I think I wasprobably already living
some of it, a lot of it.
It didn't have the impacton me that it has had
on, heard that it hashad on a lot of people.
It wasn't a bad thing.
But it It's long.
Katie (21:21):
Well, it is four days, yes.
Not, not often areyou requested to give
a four day weekend.
Joe (21:28):
Well, and then just to listen to other people.
That's, that's a lot oflistening.
And I am a good listener,and that's why I chose
the profession that I did.
And so, When I'm donelistening, I'm tired.
Because it's work.
Katie (21:46):
This is true.
This is very true.
Yes, that's why I say I gohome alone and I don't even
use my phone generally whenI go home after a day's work.
Because you're right.
It is, it's intense stuff.
Well, Joe, I cannot thankyou enough for sharing
your wisdom with the HolySpirit with us today.
I know.
the Holy Spirit is stillvery much alive in your life.
(22:07):
It didn't end in the 80sand before but it continues.
Joe (22:11):
Oh, yes
Katie (22:12):
continue to be visible and Thank you for sharing
your wisdom freely withRCIA and marriage prep and
all of us today becauseyou have a lot to give
Joe (22:22):
It's a privilege and an honor
Katie (22:24):
Once again, we thank you for joining us today.
We hope that wherever youfind an open seat in your
life, you will invitesomeone to join you.
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