July 1, 2025 • 48 mins
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On today's episode, hosts Michael Hartmann, Naomi Liu, and Mike Rizzo come together for a candid midyear conversation about everything happening in the MO Pros community and the broader Marketing Ops landscape. From membership model updates and upcoming events to fresh research and evolving roles, this chat covers a ton of ground. Whether you're a longtime member or just tuning in, this is your go-to catch-up on where things stand in 2025 and where we’re headed.
Tune in to hear:
Membership Model Shift: Slack access is now a Pro-member benefit—hear the reasoning behind the change and how it’s designed to foster trust, safety, and meaningful engagement.
MOps Events Update: MOps-Apalooza 2025 is coming in hot—get the dates, location (hello, Anaheim!), and behind-the-scenes insights into the planning chaos (including a $350K food & beverage minimum?!).
New Research Drops: The team discusses the new State of Data-Driven Decision Making report, covering data quality, analytics gaps, and organizational maturity.
Expanding Roles in MOps: Naomi shares how her role has grown to include BDR teams and sales enablement, highlighting the real-world impact of cross-functional ops leadership.
Coming Soon: Cohorts & Community Building: A sneak peek at new initiatives to match members based on roles and responsibilities—connecting peers in meaningful ways.
Episode Brought to You By MO Pros
The #1 Community for Marketing Operations Professionals
Visit UTM.io and tell them the Ops Cast team sent you.
Join us at MOps-Apalooza: https://mopsapalooza.com/
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Michael Hartmann (00:01):
Hello and welcome to another episode of
OpsCast brought to you byMarketingOpscom, powered by all
the MoPros out there.
I'm your host, Michael Artman,joined today by my two amigos,
Naomi, Mike, what's up?
Naomi Liu (00:14):
We're here Been a hot minute.
I know.
Michael Hartmann (00:18):
We don't get to do this very often.
Mike Rizzo (00:19):
I always look forward to them too.
Yeah, I do too, and yeah's, weshould do it more, like often,
but we're all busy yeah, wealways say that and I think all
of our listeners are just asbusy as we are.
So they're like you're busy,I'm busy for sure.
Michael Hartmann (00:39):
Um, yeah, so like it seemed like a good time
for us to kind of connect,either either way.
Um, whether we do this moreoften or not, maybe it could be
like a quarterly thing, but weare recording this, like in the
last few days of june 2025.
So by the time this gets out,it'll be, I think, right around
mid-year point.
So it feels like a good time,like a milestone, to go like,
(01:02):
hey, what's going on?
Like where are we in 2025?
What's going on in 2026 withthe community and the world and
everything else.
But I know, mike, there wassome big stuff that came out
earlier this week aboutcommunity.
Why don't you maybe start there, like, what's going on with the
community the rest of this year?
I know we've got Mops Paloozacoming up.
We had the event earlier in theyear.
(01:25):
It's like what are big thingshappening now?
Mike Rizzo (01:32):
Yeah Gosh, there's a lot happening in the community
and I think the thing that I'mprobably certainly most excited
about is bringing everybody backtogether this year in October
for Mops of palooza 2025.
But, uh, as of this recording,it was like two days ago that we
(01:53):
uh hosted our like sort offormal.
What is membership all about?
How are we reinvesting into thecommunity?
What new programs are webringing to the community and
how are we reinvesting into thecommunity?
What new programs are webringing to the community and
how are we trying to lean in oncreating an environment that
feels like trusted and safe andall of the above?
(02:14):
We did that webinar, like just acouple of days ago, and got
some really good questions fromfolk.
I'd say the.
The gist of, uh, the sort oflike bullet points that I could,
that I could give from that areum, slack is now a paid only
sort of member benefit.
Um, your membership actuallycomes with a live stream ticket
(02:37):
to Mopsapalooza, so that's a$500 value that we bake in there
for you, um, and the folks thatare already in Slack today who
got in on some of our legacysort of like free Slack access
as long as you're like actuallyparticipating.
Um, you know we're fine withyou hanging out Like, just don't
just drop emojis.
(02:58):
Occasionally, like you know,contribute, ask a question,
answer a question question uh,we'll evaluate that every 45
days and if you've sort of beengone and dormant, uh, we'll move
you over into our forum.
Uh, and that was like keybullet point.
I think number four.
Now, if I'm counting, um, thereis a community forum product.
It's a proper forum, um, andit's been there for years, but
(03:18):
nobody ever.
People don't know that, though.
Yeah, they have no idea.
When you said that, I was like,oh right, oh right, that's
right.
Yeah, and it's been there foryears, but nobody ever really
knows.
Naomi Liu (03:23):
I think people don't know that, though yeah, they
have no idea.
Michael Hartmann (03:26):
When you said that I was like oh right, oh
right, that's right.
I was like I know about it andI can't remember the last time I
was there, yeah yeah, totally.
Mike Rizzo (03:37):
I mean, look for every person that is on Slack.
There's equally another personthat can't install Slack right
that is on slack.
There's equally another personthat can't install slack right,
like plenty of you out there areusing microsoft teams, or, or
maybe nothing, for chat.
I don't know.
That would be strange.
But, um, you know, for for allof you, there is a community
forum product.
It's at communitymarketing,opscom.
(03:58):
Uh, you can use yourmarketingopscom login to go
access it at any time.
Um, and then there is like somepaid channels and stuff like
that where we're hosting all ofour local meetups, for example,
like local chapter meetups aregoing to be organized there.
You'll get to see some of ourcontent calendar in there.
So I'd say, like that was thething that was probably most
(04:19):
substantively different andexciting about what has happened
in 2025 so far is like theformal shift to move toward more
of a membership model, thatthat makes slack a feature of
that membership, but alsoinvesting, as I mentioned, into
that right by giving you accessto mopsa palooza on the live
(04:40):
stream, um, at least at the, atthe, at the pro level, right,
like the initial sort ofmembership level.
So, yeah, I'm excited.
Um, those are all you know.
I don't know they're they'reimportant shifts that we need to
make, uh as an organization, sothat we can continue to go
build out more of the explicitsort of like role-based
(05:04):
community programming and umhost some more like engaging
sort of speakers and educationalopportunity, these kinds of
things um you know, were you onthe webinar this week?
Michael Hartmann (05:18):
I wasn't, no, yeah, so I was.
I mean, I I think I thoughtthere were a lot of good
questions.
I think a lot of it was justclarification on the details of,
like, my membership is this one, how is it going to change?
I mean, I suspect, if youhaven't already, mike, you're
going to get questions.
I'm going to put you on thespot here because we hadn't
(05:39):
planned this.
What's the why behind it?
Right, like I really enjoybeing on slack and great
community and as in and outoccasionally, maybe like what's
the so like, maybe it feels liketo some people like they're
losing out on something, butwhat's the?
(05:59):
What's the back?
Maybe there's a little bit moreyou can share on the why and
then like, why is it like if?
How would you tell those peoplethat, um, they still have
access to, to the, whether it'sto that community side or
whatever to to be able to getthe same kind of connections?
Mike Rizzo (06:16):
yeah, yeah, no, it's .
It's a good question.
Um, it boils down to like Ikind of I lightly breezed over
it right as I was, um, startingstarting to describe some of the
bullet points of the takeaways,but it boils down to creating
trust and safety, um, and makingsure that we have the right
people in the community that arecreating the right value.
(06:37):
Um, I have to say, as acommunity, I'm incredibly proud
of our members for stepping upand constantly, you know,
engaging the way that they haveum signaling if they feel like
there's something that isn'tquite right.
Um, you know, I know there's anumber of us that sort of act as
like pseudo moderators to thecommunity, and we'll notify our
(06:58):
team to make sure that, you know, we have good participation and
there's nobody like spammingand sourcing services or
anything like that.
But really it comes down to hey,I know that by being a member
of this community, it is anagnostic environment, right?
We, we don't, we don't adhere toany one technology, we don't
service another agency oranything like that like we're
(07:20):
here to invest in this practicearea and we want our members to
feel like we're invested in them, and what I can tell you is
those that have historicallybeen sort of just like on a free
plan.
They're not necessarily asengaged as those that have come
in and contributed in other ways.
Right right, even though wedidn't have a membership before,
(07:45):
there was plenty of people thatwere jumping in and hosting
workshops.
They were coming to ourconference, engaging in lots of
different other formats.
Those are the people that arethe most engaged and I think
when you invest your time oryour dollars, or sometimes both,
you end up getting more valueout of a community, and then
that's really the why behind itright right is we want to create
an environment that everybody'sexcited to be in um and they
(08:08):
know that there's investmentback in them gotcha.
Michael Hartmann (08:13):
Have you what's been the feedback you've
gotten so far?
Mike Rizzo (08:17):
honestly just like makes sense.
Yeah, generally speaking it,you know it's a, it makes sense.
It, generally speaking it, youknow it's a, it makes sense.
It's uh, um, definitely thelike hey, what does it mean to
be active in 45 days?
Uh, type of thing?
Um, and so we just wanted toclarify that's like uh, some
(08:40):
level of meaningful contribution.
Usually that results in likeasking a question or responding
to somebody on a question.
Um, you know, we can't, I mean,if it's not, uh, a widely known
fact, just for this for thelisteners out there, like, we
can't see your dms, so we haveno idea.
Like, if, if all you do is dmpeople, we wouldn't know that.
(09:02):
Um, so there is some level oflike you kind of have to be um,
engaged in some of the otherpublic channels, right, that are
that are visible.
Um, yeah, so it's really, or?
Michael Hartmann (09:14):
the or the there.
I know there are privatechannels of slack, those.
Those get heavy visibility ofthose too.
Mike Rizzo (09:20):
It's just yeah we'll have some visibility, just as,
like moderators, we'll havevisibility into those because
we're in those channels, um, uh,but like an app that, for
example, because we're all kindof nerds, right.
So the way that we're trackingthis is, uh, when you contribute
to the community, there's adate stamp that's stamped to
your record, um, and it says,like, the last time you were
(09:40):
active and if that lapses by 45days, we'll know that you, like,
you, haven't been aroundcontributing in any any way.
The apps that we have to beable to look at that they can't
see into private channels unlesswe explicitly invite them into
those.
So, like, generally speaking,you know we're looking at mostly
just public forum contributiontype of stuff.
Michael Hartmann (09:59):
Okay, right, yeah all makes sense, yeah see,
that was the response.
Mike Rizzo (10:04):
Makes sense yeah um, yeah, I just asked about 2026,
I was trying to.
Michael Hartmann (10:10):
I was trying to put myself in the position.
As much as I can know andsupport all this right.
I put myself in the position ofsomeone maybe who's not as
actively like, not involved withthe what's going on with the
what's going on with thecommunity from an operational
standpoint yeah, yeah, there's alot.
Mike Rizzo (10:27):
um, uh, I would be if anybody ever wants me to like
lift the veil and talk aboutlike the whole, the whole, like
I'll do it with you one-on-oneanytime you want.
Um, uh, you know it's probablynot worth like blasting it out
to the entire world becausepeople would be like really
bored.
But for those that areinterested, uh, I'm more than
happy to lift the veil and sharethat kind of stuff, because
(10:50):
there's a lot that goes intomanaging this stuff right and we
want to make it a valuableexperience and unfortunately
that has a cost and, yeah,largely that's been supported by
our sponsors and I think we'vedone a really nice job of
engaging with them and balancingthe load between you know,
ensuring our sponsors aren'tjust like getting a pitch slap
(11:11):
into the community right rightso you know we want to.
We want to sort of continue tobalance that and maintain a
focus on member first.
It's always been about ourmembers and now we're just
creating more intention for thatenvironment.
Michael Hartmann (11:27):
But yeah, I know there are other events
coming up, but the next big onebut community-wide is much
blizzard, right, and it's lateOctober, I can't remember the
dates.
Yeah, yeah.
Mike Rizzo (11:36):
October 27th or 29th this year.
Um, I just had.
Michael Hartmann (11:41):
Uh, it's in Anaheim, california right behind
Disneyland, san Diego's nextyear, yeah, while we're looking
at San Diego next year this is.
Mike Rizzo (11:48):
I did.
I did that.
I'm actually thinking aboutdoing a public post about this,
just to show the pain of what ittakes to try to put one of
these events on.
It's insane.
I did six sites visits in 10days.
Uh, and I'm, I'm sure, forthose of you listening right now
, I am shopping for 2027 venuesright now, because it's that's
(12:09):
what you have to do in thisthing to book them a year out.
Naomi Liu (12:12):
You have to book them two years out two years out,
minimum two.
Mike Rizzo (12:17):
That's like the norm and you know ideally beyond
that for some of these places.
And what's really scary is theyask for like money up front,
right and so most of that that'sbased on your fnd minimum.
Y'all, some of two, actually,out of the six, I want to say
three or four of them wereasking for a food and beverage
(12:38):
minimum of three hundred andfifty thousand dollars.
You guys, I mean?
Naomi Liu (12:45):
I mean, we can do it, but like are?
Mike Rizzo (12:49):
we eating caviar and steaks for every meal I mean,
we can do it I actually it'sfunny.
Michael Hartmann (12:56):
All of our, anybody who's involved with
intimately with events probablygoes like oh yeah, they keep it,
they have a program.
I have no idea if that's, Imean it's a big number, right
like, but I don't know if it'sthe norm or if it's high, low
like.
Mike Rizzo (13:10):
I have no context I mean, and and it's all relative
right, so, like for thoselistening, our event is
approximately 450 to 500 people.
Right, that's, that's whatwe're going to see in person,
probably this year, and lastyear we had 437.
The year before it was 330.
So we are growing.
But if you do the math, the$350,000 that you spend on food
(13:35):
and beverage per head count,that's before taxes and gratuity
.
So if you add that on top,you're talking like a thousand
bucks per head for effectivelylike two days of food.
And you're not feeding themthree meals a day, folks.
You're giving them usually somelight breakfast and a solid
lunch.
I don't know what we're eatingto be able to do that, it'll
(13:58):
like, even if we could affordthat, we can't afford it.
Just to be very clear.
Like we cannot afford that,yeah, um, even if we could, I am
confident that at that volumeof attendees, that is actual
food waste, like that's.
That's what it's going to turninto is like we literally would
just have to order food just tohit the minimum and it would
just get thrown away, which I,which I just won't do business
(14:18):
with venues that that want tostick to their guns on that kind
of stuff.
So, anyway, just to like giveyou the stark offset, there are
other venues that offer ahundred thousand dollar food and
beverage minimum, right, soit's like totally arbitrary, uh,
for for the same amount ofspace, same cost of the room,
nights.
Like it's uh, it's all crazy,but anyway, uh, I digress.
(14:39):
Mopsapalooza is october 27ththrough 29th 2025.
This year.
It's at the west end in anaheim.
We are currently wrapping upour uh ticket holder voting
phase, so if you have a ticket,you can go in and rate and
review all the sessions and thenhelp us create the community
event that you want to see, thatmobs of palooza.
(15:00):
We'll announce all the speakersin the lineup in late july.
The workshops are pretty wellsolidified at this point.
Um, we have a lot of workshophosts this year, which I'm
really excited about.
Um, and then I actually got amessage from a couple of the
attendees that were super firedup because they've always wanted
to do Disney in Halloween, um,and so they're grabbing our
(15:23):
magic pass and they're like,yeah, I'm going to Disney
because it's going to beHalloween.
Michael Hartmann (15:28):
I was like, oh right yeah, I forgot for the
record that was not me.
Hey, it's not for everyone, notmy jam yeah I get it, that's
okay.
Yeah, yeah, I want to know whatis naomi speaking, because
that's what I want to go seenaomi oh yeah, we're doing it.
Naomi Liu (15:43):
Yeah, we're doing another panel right.
Mike Rizzo (15:45):
Yep, you, you and me , mike yep, we'll do a panel,
should we should we um?
Naomi Liu (15:50):
should we wear costumes like have it be themed
spooky?
Oh, that would be kind of funright as your.
I don't know what would thetheme be?
Mike Rizzo (15:59):
we'd have to come up with some like marketing puns,
right like I was, like I wasyeah, your favorite moves.
I one time I wanted to like, uh, act like a pop-up banner and
just like, just like, walkaround and then, like like, step
in front of somebody and justlike, hold up a sign.
Naomi Liu (16:18):
That's so funny.
Michael Hartmann (16:19):
Like a chat bot.
Mike Rizzo (16:20):
Yeah, yeah, like okay, but anyway I'm excited
about it.
Um, yeah, we had like 15 of ourattendees buy tickets to come
back right away.
Um, this year it's awesome lastyear for this year, so so
that's that's really exciting.
But, um, yeah, beautiful hotel,a little bit more intimate, um,
(16:43):
because it's like I've beenthere, weston, it's a.
Michael Hartmann (16:45):
It's a nice venue, yeah.
Mike Rizzo (16:47):
Yeah, really, really excited about it.
They're about as old as ourconference is, so about three
years old, so I'm pretty pumped.
But, yeah, that's gosh.
I think that's everything for2025 that has sort of been
happening I did talk about onthe webinar this week, and
something else that I'm excitedabout is we're doing more
(17:08):
research this year, releasingmore of that out into the wild,
so the first report is availableto our members.
It's the state of data-drivendecision-making, the mouthful in
go-to-market specifically, andthere's a lot of really good
nuggets in there around how data, data, data quality, and some
of the teams are organizingaround, um, the use of data for
(17:32):
effective go-to-market strategy,um, so this is a way for us to
go a lot deeper on some of thatannual benchmark study stuff
that we do with the state of themo pro research.
Michael Hartmann (17:40):
Is this a new one?
Or is this uh because I knowyou do this state of the mo pros
, which is no like coming into athird or fourth year, right?
I think it'll be its fifth year, fourth year, okay, I don't
know.
So this is a different research.
Mike Rizzo (17:56):
This is different research.
Yeah, we're referring to theseas pulse reports.
We're going to try to pump themout roughly once a quarter-ish
but effectively just likegetting a state on like what's
going on in our, in our industry, around very specific topics.
So the first topic is arounddata and data quality.
The second topic, that is, wefinished the research collection
(18:19):
phase and we're just going intodesign mode now for the study,
but it'll be released in acouple of months and it's around
rev ops and rev tech and justlike wtf is going on in revenue
operations, like what is this?
Um, yeah, and and so that thatthat one I'm particularly
excited about.
And then the third one we'reentering that research phase now
(18:41):
where we're actually going tocollect all the data from all of
you, uh that want toparticipate.
Um is going to be around moreof your like kpis and benchmarks
, right, like uh, what's?
Michael Hartmann (18:51):
your salary level kpis a bit more.
Mike Rizzo (18:53):
So yeah, performance yeah, more like your team, your
marketing operations team andsizes like stuff.
That where you're like how do Isort of understand me and my
role, me and my team, me and myorg relative to those that are
out there.
And then by pulling all threeof those pieces together, we'll
(19:14):
be able to also recreate thestate-of-the-mill pro research
and give everybody access tothat at the end of the year as
well.
So, effectively, we're breakingapart the state-of-the-mill pro
research, going deeper and thenpulling it back together in
sort of a bespoke study andreleasing that, as you might
expect, at moffsapalooza.
So, yeah, are you?
Michael Hartmann (19:36):
are you um?
Are you open to ideas orsuggestions for additional areas
of research?
Mike Rizzo (19:44):
of course, yeah, yeah, because it doesn't need to
be the exact same like patternevery single time.
Yeah, so, whether that's you oranybody listening like, you're
welcome to tell us what you wantus to study.
Um, cause we've got a wholecommunity of people that
probably are interested in thesame topic.
Michael Hartmann (20:01):
of course, now I'm sure there's got to be
something about AI and itsimpacts.
I would be curious to.
I think it'd be interesting.
You're doing the RevTech one.
I'd be curious if there'sanything that we're looking into
(20:22):
about what is happening interms of technologies that might
disrupt, like the entrenchedplayers right, like I keep
believing that there's going tobe something that's going to
come along and just be sort of awhole new ball game in terms of
how things like a signal, likeyeah, an alternative to
(20:43):
salesforce that just doesn't dothe same thing in the same way,
but maybe just saying you know,so I'm just like anyway, but
that's that would be interestingto me, like to hear about
what's going on there, whatpeople are seeing, what they're
looking for yeah, um,interestingly, I met a team
yesterday um, I'll give them ashout out, which obviously I I
(21:07):
try to avoid.
Mike Rizzo (21:08):
They're they're not a paid sponsor, uh of any kind,
so just full disclaimer there.
I literally just met them lastnight.
They're based in Australia.
Um, it's a company called theZepic, z E P I C For those of
you that feel like you want togo look it up Um, they they're
doing something interesting.
Um, they're really startingmore with, like, the data layer,
and I think that that sort oflike scratches at what you're
(21:30):
talking about.
Hartman, I bet you there's moreof them out there where, like
you're starting with more oflike a data first, um approach
to building like a marketingautomation platform.
Um, versus, like you know, theboxed sort of objects.
So for them it's like anythingis an object, like you could
literally like your chair as a,because they kind of they cater
(21:51):
more to the b2c side.
He was like explaining to mehe's like, look, your chair
could be an object and then eachof the pieces of the chair can
be features and assets and youknow metadata of that object the
arm, the skews, like all thisstuff and like you could do that
for like literally anything,and then you create a relational
database and a crm and amarketing automation platform
that allows you to engage withlike highly personalized
(22:14):
relationships between betweenthese objects.
It's arguably you could do inb2b too, but it was just
fascinating to see the like.
The approach to buildingtechnology now, I think, is
going to change based on whatwe're seeing in the market.
Right, like you look at whatClay's doing and kind of pushing
the agenda forward on this ideaof like go-to-market
(22:36):
engineering and like sort of abuild first, like slow down to
speed up, kind of mindset, Ithink we're going to see that
come to fruition in products too.
Right, it's not.
It's going to end up being likealmost we talked about this
years ago, I yeah we were sayinglike I feel like there's gonna
be lots of warehouse native likethings that are gonna happen.
That's that that I think is uponus at this point I'm trying to
(22:59):
remember, like who we there's.
Michael Hartmann (23:01):
I can't remember who it was we talked to
, but yeah, I remember that.
Curious, naomi, would you like?
Would you find it interesting?
You think people would be likeyours?
I think it's one thing that'sbeen interesting and I've talked
to a couple of people.
But I know like your scope ofresponsibility has expanded like
a couple times now beyond wait,you can quote quotes right,
traditional marketing, ops,right, um, do you think it would
(23:24):
be like?
You think there are things thatwould be useful for people in
our audience who aspire to growand expand and have different
career paths?
What are the challenges, whatmakes sense, what can be
leveraged from what you've doneinto these expanded roles?
Naomi Liu (23:43):
Yeah, I mean, I think , absolutely.
I think part of the strugglethat I've had is even just
finding people that I can bounceideas off of, that have been in
similar situations.
And so there was someone that Imet actually at Adobe Summit
earlier this year, where we wereboth in marketing ops and she
also managed BDRs or an insideself team, and when we looked at
(24:04):
each other we're like, oh myGod, did we just find another
like you know're just like waitwhat you know, sweet we were so
excited.
Mike Rizzo (24:12):
You're a four-leaf clover like me, I know.
Naomi Liu (24:14):
Oh my god and uh, it just like it was.
It wasn't planned, it was justsomething like I, when I
mentioned like, my scope ofresponsibility, you could see
her eyes line up and she waslike what?
So we immediately made a, madea, um, a note to chat post from
it and yeah, it was great, and Ithink that's just something
that has been rare, right.
(24:37):
And I think when it comes tomarketing ops, like despite the
industry being a bit more maturenow, it's still there's still a
wide range of what people areresponsible for.
Right, I'll meet marketing opspeople that part of their scope
of work is like demand gen orcopywriting or like being
(25:01):
responsible for the actual likedevelopment of the nurture
program, right, and whereas,like I am not, like we're purely
operational, right, and thenthey're teamed that are not
necessarily as involved invendor evaluations or contracts
or you know the financial sideof things or even negotiating
(25:23):
with vendors about you know theneeds of the business, like kind
of leave that to procurementteams or whatnot, right.
And so I think justunderstanding where the gaps are
for people is that the companydoesn't want that to fall under
marketing ops or is it thatthere is?
It's like chicken egg carthorse type situation, like you
(25:44):
don't know what you don't know.
And how do you get thatexperience unless you are
trained on it right or it justkind of falls under your onto
your radar?
Um, so I think a lot of that isjust finding like-minded people
that overlap on the smallernuances, the fringe things that
can come up.
And especially for me, asidefrom the BDRs, I'm heavily,
(26:10):
heavily, heavily involved insales enablement and sales
onboarding.
Sales manager starts like thesecond or third conversation
they might have is with me,right which is here is access to
all the tools that you need.
This is our process.
This is how you progress anopportunity forward.
This is how, like a lot of that, all vendery, right, and that's
(26:33):
interesting, trying to pointthem to the right team, right.
So so yeah, it's a lot, that isa lot.
Michael Hartmann (26:42):
I've been in similar ones where I always tell
people I try to definemarketing options.
Pretty much everybody has apossibility for the tech stack,
the marketing tech stack, andusually campaign operations or
something like campaignoperations and data and probably
reporting analytics to somelevel and the amount can vary.
(27:03):
But when you start gettingthings like you, I've had a
small inbound BDR or SDR team.
I've had responsibility forwebsites and the operations of
those, not the content, but likethe underpinnings and that kind
of stuff.
I have had content teams.
Before marketing ops was a thingand then you touched on it
(27:26):
right Managing budgets, managingresources whether that's
headcount or consult andnegotiating that.
And I remember distinctly whenit came time for renewal with a
technology vendor, how me, myboss and our procurement person
all sort of we strategized aboutthe roles we were each going to
(27:48):
play and how we interacted withthem, right to the point.
Like I was the one trying tolike I'm on your side and my
boss was the one beating himover the head, the pubic god was
like I just need the numbersright.
And unless you've gone throughthat right or had the
opportunity like to be exposedto that, it's not something that
most people get to do so.
(28:10):
Maybe that's an opportunity,mike, for some additional like I
don't know, like coaching,training, whatever you're
smiling yeah, no, my head.
Mike Rizzo (28:22):
I was gonna say that earlier, when naomi was like
talking about the, um, sort ofthe serendipity of being able to
find somebody that has like asimilar thing.
Right, like when we weretalking at the by the way, none
of this is scripted folks, solike it is absolutely just a
natural conversation Um, uh,when you're talking about like
finding someone that has thesame skillset as you or whatever
(28:44):
, um, those are the types ofthings that we're trying to do
with the membership program,right, like we're we're
engineering ways for you to findthose connections.
So you can imagine a programfor Naomi where I ask all of the
folks that are signing up nowhey, give us a sense of your
role and responsibilities.
Right, if you actually buildout your profile on
(29:04):
marketingopscom it is aLinkedIn-esque style profile you
can give us your job history,your work experience, your
certifications and some of yourskills and we eventually will be
able to get to a place where wecan pair you up in sort of
these micro sort of groups for aperiod of let's call it a month
.
Right, where we can hostdiscussions and go deep on
(29:24):
topics or introduce you to eachother like cohorts exactly, yeah
, operative word cohorts, um,and and that's exactly what like
we're, we're leaning in on,we're starting with more like
role based, you know, are you amanager, independent contributor
, senior manager, director, vp,or more so?
At least you're within a peergroup?
That's sort of like someexperiencing different things,
(29:47):
but we can go a whole bunch ofdifferent directions, uh, and so
when naomi shared that with me,that's exactly where my head
went right.
It's like, oh great, we shouldfigure out a way to bring people
together for some of the thingsthat they're responsible for,
um, which then also means thatif you're listening to this,
like, if you have other ideas ofcohorts that we should try to
pull together, send them to us,because that's what we want to
do is like, make it easier foryou to learn from each other and
(30:10):
shorten that learning curve.
So, yeah, that's a lot, though,naomi.
Um, coincidentally, um, I didsee someone posting yet again um
on LinkedIn about, uh, the BDR,sort of SDR function rolling
into like a RevOps marketing.
Really, it was actually not evena RevOps org, because that's
(30:32):
just like sales ops 2.0, butlike it was actually a marketing
ops function person.
That was like, oh, I'm, I'msort of like taking over on this
now, or I'm like more heavilyinvolved and I I personally
think it's like a really goodmove for for the organizations
that have the leader that canhandle it.
I think it's a super good move,um, but I do think it takes
(30:54):
time to be able to and I wouldlove your thoughts on it right
now.
I mean like it probably takestime and experience in role to
like get to and I would loveyour thoughts on it right now.
I mean like it probably takestime and experience in role to
like get to a place where youcan make an impact right, like
you kind of have to know theinner workings of that's my
sense anyways like you have toreally know the inner workings
of the business to be able tolike be an impactful sort of
leader for the sdr bdr function.
(31:15):
Would you agree?
Naomi Liu (31:16):
yeah, yeah absolutely , yep, absolutely, because, um,
I you know and I was very honestwith the team when I started
managing them is, you know, Idon't have a sales background.
I get sold to online, right, orpeople try to pitch me, but I
don't have a sales factor.
And, excuse me, can we editthat out?
Michael Hartmann (31:40):
Yeah, we'll cut it for you Very live.
Naomi Liu (31:42):
Very live, yeah, but what I can offer them and I
think this is something that hasbeen very beneficial and has
caused a lot of success sinceI've taken over the team is I am
very data focused, right, andI'll give you an example.
(32:03):
So my example is if you can makeand I'm just making, these are
just I'm just making these upright, if you can make, you know
12 very highly qualified callsin a day, right, where you have
done your research on theaccount, you look the person up
on linkedin or sales navigatoruse you know kind of identify
their history, found like a talktrack that you can talk to them
(32:24):
about, theme their history insalesforce, know where to look
at and mark head out to see,like, what they're doing, are
they engaging with our contentor whatnot.
And I've trained doing all ofthat because you know I, my team
on the op side, we handle allof that and you're able to make
12 calls a day.
Let's look at the historicaldata that we have in terms of uh
(32:44):
lead source and the conversionrates from.
If you're getting compensated,for example, on opportunity
creation or setting appointmentsfor our sales managers, where
what are the leads and thesource, where you're going to
have the best chance to setthose appointments and create
(33:07):
those opportunities.
And then, additional on top ofthat, where are you going to uh,
like, what is the close ratefor those?
All right, arming them withthis information allows them to
prioritize the calls thatthey're making in a given day.
So it's not just like I'm goingto dial for dollars type of
situation right, first in, firstout, and and so when they have
(33:30):
that information at theirfingertips and I'm training them
where to look and how toprioritize and what they should
be doing, they've been killingit honestly.
Yeah, should be doing.
They've been killing it honestly, yeah, and they've been like
yeah that's awesome, I believeit?
Mike Rizzo (33:44):
yeah, I believe it.
Michael Hartmann (33:45):
Well, I know I think we I can't remember what,
but I remember we were on oneof these with a recent guest
named me and you were sayingsome things about like what
you've learned, like I thinkthere's also value in having a
perspective of understandingwhat that team, that kind of
function, has to do.
Yeah, to help you in whateveryou've historically been doing
(34:06):
in marketing ops, because I'mnot surprised, right?
I am a big believer thatunderstanding that contact with
it.
I believe there's a lot ofpeople in marketing and
marketing ops who don'tunderstand that and then dismiss
it or think it's easy orwhatever.
And I think having thatexposure is valuable and I love
(34:27):
the idea that you're doing itthe other way too right, you're
helping them understand what'savailable to them so they can do
better.
Naomi Liu (34:33):
Yeah, and I think that's been a natural
progression into like the salesenablement stuff too.
That you know, when a new hirestarts, a new sales manager
starts, it's like okay, ofcourse they get Salesforce
access and then you know this is, you know how stuff works.
But it's also just reallytraining them on the nuances, on
you know how do we set thingsup and like, what are all of
(34:54):
these features mean?
Of these features mean, who arethe BDRs that support them?
What are all the tools that areavailable to them?
Because there is a lot ofoverlap with sales and marketing
tools, right, even if it's likeMarketo Marketo has a Marketo
Sales Insight, right, that actsas a plugin that can sit on the
salesperson's outlook and theycan also look in Salesforce and
(35:14):
see what they're doing.
So there a lot of like naturaloverlap with training and
because a lot I think people inmarketing ops should really take
a um, raise their hand rightand be part of, like that
onboarding process when asalesperson starts at the
organization, right, because weoften talk about like, oh,
(35:35):
marketing and sales alignment,but what does that actually mean
?
Does it mean just like you'retalking to them or like fitting
in a call with them.
But how about really likespending that one-on-one time
and training them on themarketing tools that overlap
with sales?
I think that's so important.
Um, I spend hours with newsales people that join on.
(35:55):
You know, here's linton salesnavigator.
This is your license.
This is how you use it.
This is what you how youconnect it into our salesforce
instance.
This is the bidyard.
This is marketo zones insight.
This is how you've heard alltogether.
Mike Rizzo (36:06):
Okay, let's touch base in four weeks and see how
you're doing yeah yeah, I lovethat it's that kind of
enablement stuff that like Ilove that you gave some of the
concrete examples of likeexactly what you're sort of
referring to, because like itdoesn't matter how much we sort
of shout it out into the etherright when, like I say all the
time, you know I think amarketing ops professional is
(36:27):
best suited to grow into a revops role everybody pre-funnel
here's, everybody post-funneland conversion and renewal and
so on and so forth, that you getto have a contextual
conversation about enablementand the art of the possible in a
way that, generally speaking,other operations or you know,
(36:49):
players don't have fullvisibility into that and they
don't have the context.
You, we in marketing operations, like we're forced to
understand that full journey.
Uh, because that's like that'show we evaluate the success of
our, of our efforts andimplementations of products.
Like people don't understandand so like, arguably everything
you just described, naomi, isrev ops right, but like you're a
(37:13):
marketing us professional andyou know, and you're enabling a
sales team and you'reunderstanding the, the, the
journey, and like what, howsomething moves through to the
next stage, and you know, andthen you're training people on
that.
Um, I know we're coming up ontime.
I feel like it, like we coulddo a sneak peek maybe just uh,
(37:34):
of the of, of some of the datawe have, of, like, the state of
the driven.
Do you want to look at it or no?
Do we have time?
Michael Hartmann (37:40):
Sure, I think we have a few minutes right.
Mike Rizzo (37:44):
Okay, here we'll do.
I'll screen share so for thosethat get to watch this on video,
you can go look at the screen.
I guess I'll try to zoom in alittle so that we can actually
see.
This is our latest research thestate of the data-driven
decision making in GoToMarket.
I just clicked through to acouple of the subsections
because we have a whole table ofcontent here that sort of
(38:06):
outlines what we went into Forthose of you listening.
We went into data maturity andstrategy, data usage and tools,
challenges in culture, peopleand organizational impact, some
forward-looking trends.
We got some crowdsourcecuriosity, like basically some
information on data strategy.
That's the beauty of AI andopen text fields these days and
(38:31):
then we actually get a littleaction plan for you on, like how
to operationalize against someof this information.
So in this section, data usageand tools I just stopped on this
one because I thought it was aninteresting enough nugget.
The question was what are yourorganization's top three data
priorities for the next 12months?
And the number one, of course,was data quality and hygiene.
Number two was unifying dataacross platforms, so it's like
(38:54):
data integration.
And number three it actuallyshows up sort of down here is
automating reporting indashboards All right, so I'll
pause here, just any quickthoughts, as this comes as a
surprise to either of you.
Michael Hartmann (39:12):
I know, not in general, no, like my, and my
gut reaction, though, is likethe whole automating, reporting
and dashboards.
I think I it wouldn't be nearthe top of my list because I'm
especially with the dashboardword I just I think.
I think actionable insightswould be more the way I would
think about it.
Mike Rizzo (39:31):
Yeah, especially.
Michael Hartmann (39:32):
AI enabled ones.
Mike Rizzo (39:34):
Yeah, dashboards for me are like I don't know
they're almost a four-letterword.
Michael Hartmann (39:42):
I could not agree more.
Mike Rizzo (39:46):
It doesn't tell a good story.
I don't know.
I don't know why we even havethe dashboard, Like is it a set
it and forget it kind of thing.
It's just not good.
I did meet a team that's reallymuch better.
Naomi Liu (39:53):
The worst is when you make them and then we're in
salesforce and then you can,because they don't display the
most up-to-date informationright and you have to like
manually hit refresh yeah, andthen the worst is like when you
spend all this time building itit's a priority and then you go
back in like a month later andit hasn't been refreshed for
like three and a half weeks.
It's half exactly why, like.
Michael Hartmann (40:12):
Thank you for wasting my time on there's an
opportunity for sales enablementand training.
Mike Rizzo (40:17):
Yeah, well, in section two, under data maturity
and strategy, we found thatmost marketing organizations are
still in the process ofmaturing digitally and we get
into some of the nuance here wetalk about.
Like, we asked the question howwould you rate your
organization's digital maturity?
And, uh, the bulk of them saidthat it's sort of intermediate.
(40:38):
They're like operationalizingsome data practices, but it's
still pretty siloed.
And then, uh, the next sort oftwo highest were around more
like developing and advanced.
So we're seeing this sort of umreally like I don't know,
introductory, intermediatesegment take the lead, and then
it's like a split between thosethat are just getting started
and those that have some levelof maturity and advanced
(40:59):
capabilities, which isinteresting.
This is over 270 people that areanswering this, so it's not
like insignificant findings.
Right like we're.
We're surveying a pretty largelandscape of folks here.
Um, and then, just in theinterest of time, I'll sort of
rifle through a couple more forus.
We saw that about one in fivestudy participants have no
(41:22):
dedicated analytics andreporting full-time employees,
ftes which is pretty shocking.
Michael Hartmann (41:29):
Yeah, nearly half of them had analytics and
reporting as a high priority.
Mike Rizzo (41:33):
Exactly right.
Yeah, when you start to look atthe correlation between the
high priority and the lack offull-time employment, that
starts to give you a signal for,well, where is a hiring effort
going to be made?
Or where do we need to contract, or what skills do I need to
ramp up of my own to be able tosupport the organization?
Um, that's how you can readbetween the line on some of this
, some of this data, of thisdata, and then I'll just sort of
(41:55):
the last one is some of thecrowdsource curiosities peers on
data strategy.
Um, the question studyparticipants would like, would
most like, to ask their peersrelates to data governance and
data quality, and what we did iswe sort of chunked all of these
things out in terms of rankingsof questions by the study
participants themselves.
(42:16):
So, for those of you that wantto come in and have a
conversation around data quality, governance and assurance, we
would love for you toparticipate and contribute some
of your thoughts.
But there's questions about likewhat is your data governance
strategy?
And then, how did you implementa unified, multi-touch revenue
attribution model?
These are all top of mind forour community and if you go
(42:40):
download this report, it isavailable.
Like I said to our pro and proplus members, if we do get it
sponsored, we'll release it tosome folks for free.
Unfortunately, folks, the innerworkings of building these is
it's very, very expensive and wewant to create high quality
research, so these are firstavailable to our members.
But if you do go get this,there's lots, lots of really
(43:02):
good information in here.
We'd love for you to sort ofjoin in on the conversation, but
it was a nice transitionbecause you, naomi, were talking
so much about data and how itenables your ability to have a
successful sales org, right?
So, yeah, I figured it'd be funto sort of highlight some of
those things that's awesome wellI know we all got a jam yeah
(43:26):
it's always fun, so thanks y'allany
last thoughts before we we headout no, just hit me with your
ideas, folks.
This community is for you,built by you.
Michael Hartmann (43:41):
The podcast intro is it's powered by all the
mo pros out there right same istrue for everything else we're
doing, so you know, let us know,we're here for you I always
love when people you ask thequestion anything else that
people know and then they gointo something else, just like
you did.
Mike Rizzo (43:56):
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah , yeah, call you out on it.
Yeah, it's all good, all good,all good I'm just gonna sit
there and smile next time thereyou go.
Michael Hartmann (44:08):
Just a pretty face.
There you go.
Oh, I forgot, just like I'vebeen wearing my 2023 mops with
palooza shirt lately too, solove it, I love it.
Mike Rizzo (44:17):
I found a stack of marketing off stickers.
Naomi Liu (44:20):
the other day I was like oh, nice yeah.
Mike Rizzo (44:23):
Make sure you hand those out at the next local
chapter meetup that you sort ofquasi run, Naomi.
Naomi Liu (44:30):
I missed them.
Michael Hartmann (44:31):
There's one in the DFW area this morning and I
just couldn't get to it.
Oh bummer, that's all right.
Mike Rizzo (44:38):
Excellent, I've got a bunch of Monopoly boards I'm
giving away at MOPSA this year.
For sure there's I don't know,I'm staring at a bunch of them.
I got to end those out.
But we're only going to begiving out shirts to the Magic
(45:00):
Pass attendees this year because, um, we're just trying to be
reasonable about costs and makesure we can host a good event.
So we got one of the early ones, the quality of the, the, the
speakers and the truth.
Michael Hartmann (45:09):
Yeah, I don't know.
Mike Rizzo (45:10):
Yeah, I mean especially if we end up having
to pay 350 000 for food and foodand beverage.
Michael Hartmann (45:15):
Just kidding, we're not doing that.
Mike Rizzo (45:17):
We're not doing that .
Michael Hartmann (45:20):
Awesome.
Well, again, thanks to you all.
It's always fun.
Thanks to our listeners forcontinuing to support us.
As Mike said, we're always opento ideas, knowledge for the
podcast topics, for guests youcan reach out to any of us but
also for feedback on stuff forthe Riz community that you can
take to Mike.
I don't want to hear it.
Mike Rizzo (45:41):
Let's take it to the Rizzo, that's right, all right,
until next time.
Michael Hartmann (45:47):
Bye, everybody , bye everyone, thank you.
Bye.
Hello and welcome to another episode of
OpsCast brought to you byMarketingOpscom, powered by all
the MoPros out there.
I'm your host, Michael Artman,joined today by my two amigos,
Naomi, Mike, what's up?
Naomi Liu (00:14):
We're here Been a hot minute.
I know.
Michael Hartmann (00:18):
We don't get to do this very often.
Mike Rizzo (00:19):
I always look forward to them too.
Yeah, I do too, and yeah's, weshould do it more, like often,
but we're all busy yeah, wealways say that and I think all
of our listeners are just asbusy as we are.
So they're like you're busy,I'm busy for sure.
Michael Hartmann (00:39):
Um, yeah, so like it seemed like a good time
for us to kind of connect,either either way.
Um, whether we do this moreoften or not, maybe it could be
like a quarterly thing, but weare recording this, like in the
last few days of june 2025.
So by the time this gets out,it'll be, I think, right around
mid-year point.
So it feels like a good time,like a milestone, to go like,
(01:02):
hey, what's going on?
Like where are we in 2025?
What's going on in 2026 withthe community and the world and
everything else.
But I know, mike, there wassome big stuff that came out
earlier this week aboutcommunity.
Why don't you maybe start there, like, what's going on with the
community the rest of this year?
I know we've got Mops Paloozacoming up.
We had the event earlier in theyear.
(01:25):
It's like what are big thingshappening now?
Mike Rizzo (01:32):
Yeah Gosh, there's a lot happening in the community
and I think the thing that I'mprobably certainly most excited
about is bringing everybody backtogether this year in October
for Mops of palooza 2025.
But, uh, as of this recording,it was like two days ago that we
(01:53):
uh hosted our like sort offormal.
What is membership all about?
How are we reinvesting into thecommunity?
What new programs are webringing to the community and
how are we reinvesting into thecommunity?
What new programs are webringing to the community and
how are we trying to lean in oncreating an environment that
feels like trusted and safe andall of the above?
(02:14):
We did that webinar, like just acouple of days ago, and got
some really good questions fromfolk.
I'd say the.
The gist of, uh, the sort oflike bullet points that I could,
that I could give from that areum, slack is now a paid only
sort of member benefit.
Um, your membership actuallycomes with a live stream ticket
(02:37):
to Mopsapalooza, so that's a$500 value that we bake in there
for you, um, and the folks thatare already in Slack today who
got in on some of our legacysort of like free Slack access
as long as you're like actuallyparticipating.
Um, you know we're fine withyou hanging out Like, just don't
just drop emojis.
(02:58):
Occasionally, like you know,contribute, ask a question,
answer a question question uh,we'll evaluate that every 45
days and if you've sort of beengone and dormant, uh, we'll move
you over into our forum.
Uh, and that was like keybullet point.
I think number four.
Now, if I'm counting, um, thereis a community forum product.
It's a proper forum, um, andit's been there for years, but
(03:18):
nobody ever.
People don't know that, though.
Yeah, they have no idea.
When you said that, I was like,oh right, oh right, that's
right.
Yeah, and it's been there foryears, but nobody ever really
knows.
Naomi Liu (03:23):
I think people don't know that, though yeah, they
have no idea.
Michael Hartmann (03:26):
When you said that I was like oh right, oh
right, that's right.
I was like I know about it andI can't remember the last time I
was there, yeah yeah, totally.
Mike Rizzo (03:37):
I mean, look for every person that is on Slack.
There's equally another personthat can't install Slack right
that is on slack.
There's equally another personthat can't install slack right,
like plenty of you out there areusing microsoft teams, or, or
maybe nothing, for chat.
I don't know.
That would be strange.
But, um, you know, for for allof you, there is a community
forum product.
It's at communitymarketing,opscom.
(03:58):
Uh, you can use yourmarketingopscom login to go
access it at any time.
Um, and then there is like somepaid channels and stuff like
that where we're hosting all ofour local meetups, for example,
like local chapter meetups aregoing to be organized there.
You'll get to see some of ourcontent calendar in there.
So I'd say, like that was thething that was probably most
(04:19):
substantively different andexciting about what has happened
in 2025 so far is like theformal shift to move toward more
of a membership model, thatthat makes slack a feature of
that membership, but alsoinvesting, as I mentioned, into
that right by giving you accessto mopsa palooza on the live
(04:40):
stream, um, at least at the, atthe, at the pro level, right,
like the initial sort ofmembership level.
So, yeah, I'm excited.
Um, those are all you know.
I don't know they're they'reimportant shifts that we need to
make, uh as an organization, sothat we can continue to go
build out more of the explicitsort of like role-based
(05:04):
community programming and umhost some more like engaging
sort of speakers and educationalopportunity, these kinds of
things um you know, were you onthe webinar this week?
Michael Hartmann (05:18):
I wasn't, no, yeah, so I was.
I mean, I I think I thoughtthere were a lot of good
questions.
I think a lot of it was justclarification on the details of,
like, my membership is this one, how is it going to change?
I mean, I suspect, if youhaven't already, mike, you're
going to get questions.
I'm going to put you on thespot here because we hadn't
(05:39):
planned this.
What's the why behind it?
Right, like I really enjoybeing on slack and great
community and as in and outoccasionally, maybe like what's
the so like, maybe it feels liketo some people like they're
losing out on something, butwhat's the?
(05:59):
What's the back?
Maybe there's a little bit moreyou can share on the why and
then like, why is it like if?
How would you tell those peoplethat, um, they still have
access to, to the, whether it'sto that community side or
whatever to to be able to getthe same kind of connections?
Mike Rizzo (06:16):
yeah, yeah, no, it's .
It's a good question.
Um, it boils down to like Ikind of I lightly breezed over
it right as I was, um, startingstarting to describe some of the
bullet points of the takeaways,but it boils down to creating
trust and safety, um, and makingsure that we have the right
people in the community that arecreating the right value.
(06:37):
Um, I have to say, as acommunity, I'm incredibly proud
of our members for stepping upand constantly, you know,
engaging the way that they haveum signaling if they feel like
there's something that isn'tquite right.
Um, you know, I know there's anumber of us that sort of act as
like pseudo moderators to thecommunity, and we'll notify our
(06:58):
team to make sure that, you know, we have good participation and
there's nobody like spammingand sourcing services or
anything like that.
But really it comes down to hey,I know that by being a member
of this community, it is anagnostic environment, right?
We, we don't, we don't adhere toany one technology, we don't
service another agency oranything like that like we're
(07:20):
here to invest in this practicearea and we want our members to
feel like we're invested in them, and what I can tell you is
those that have historicallybeen sort of just like on a free
plan.
They're not necessarily asengaged as those that have come
in and contributed in other ways.
Right right, even though wedidn't have a membership before,
(07:45):
there was plenty of people thatwere jumping in and hosting
workshops.
They were coming to ourconference, engaging in lots of
different other formats.
Those are the people that arethe most engaged and I think
when you invest your time oryour dollars, or sometimes both,
you end up getting more valueout of a community, and then
that's really the why behind itright right is we want to create
an environment that everybody'sexcited to be in um and they
(08:08):
know that there's investmentback in them gotcha.
Michael Hartmann (08:13):
Have you what's been the feedback you've
gotten so far?
Mike Rizzo (08:17):
honestly just like makes sense.
Yeah, generally speaking it,you know it's a, it makes sense.
It, generally speaking it, youknow it's a, it makes sense.
It's uh, um, definitely thelike hey, what does it mean to
be active in 45 days?
Uh, type of thing?
Um, and so we just wanted toclarify that's like uh, some
(08:40):
level of meaningful contribution.
Usually that results in likeasking a question or responding
to somebody on a question.
Um, you know, we can't, I mean,if it's not, uh, a widely known
fact, just for this for thelisteners out there, like, we
can't see your dms, so we haveno idea.
Like, if, if all you do is dmpeople, we wouldn't know that.
(09:02):
Um, so there is some level oflike you kind of have to be um,
engaged in some of the otherpublic channels, right, that are
that are visible.
Um, yeah, so it's really, or?
Michael Hartmann (09:14):
the or the there.
I know there are privatechannels of slack, those.
Those get heavy visibility ofthose too.
Mike Rizzo (09:20):
It's just yeah we'll have some visibility, just as,
like moderators, we'll havevisibility into those because
we're in those channels, um, uh,but like an app that, for
example, because we're all kindof nerds, right.
So the way that we're trackingthis is, uh, when you contribute
to the community, there's adate stamp that's stamped to
your record, um, and it says,like, the last time you were
(09:40):
active and if that lapses by 45days, we'll know that you, like,
you, haven't been aroundcontributing in any any way.
The apps that we have to beable to look at that they can't
see into private channels unlesswe explicitly invite them into
those.
So, like, generally speaking,you know we're looking at mostly
just public forum contributiontype of stuff.
Michael Hartmann (09:59):
Okay, right, yeah all makes sense, yeah see,
that was the response.
Mike Rizzo (10:04):
Makes sense yeah um, yeah, I just asked about 2026,
I was trying to.
Michael Hartmann (10:10):
I was trying to put myself in the position.
As much as I can know andsupport all this right.
I put myself in the position ofsomeone maybe who's not as
actively like, not involved withthe what's going on with the
what's going on with thecommunity from an operational
standpoint yeah, yeah, there's alot.
Mike Rizzo (10:27):
um, uh, I would be if anybody ever wants me to like
lift the veil and talk aboutlike the whole, the whole, like
I'll do it with you one-on-oneanytime you want.
Um, uh, you know it's probablynot worth like blasting it out
to the entire world becausepeople would be like really
bored.
But for those that areinterested, uh, I'm more than
happy to lift the veil and sharethat kind of stuff, because
(10:50):
there's a lot that goes intomanaging this stuff right and we
want to make it a valuableexperience and unfortunately
that has a cost and, yeah,largely that's been supported by
our sponsors and I think we'vedone a really nice job of
engaging with them and balancingthe load between you know,
ensuring our sponsors aren'tjust like getting a pitch slap
(11:11):
into the community right rightso you know we want to.
We want to sort of continue tobalance that and maintain a
focus on member first.
It's always been about ourmembers and now we're just
creating more intention for thatenvironment.
Michael Hartmann (11:27):
But yeah, I know there are other events
coming up, but the next big onebut community-wide is much
blizzard, right, and it's lateOctober, I can't remember the
dates.
Yeah, yeah.
Mike Rizzo (11:36):
October 27th or 29th this year.
Um, I just had.
Michael Hartmann (11:41):
Uh, it's in Anaheim, california right behind
Disneyland, san Diego's nextyear, yeah, while we're looking
at San Diego next year this is.
Mike Rizzo (11:48):
I did.
I did that.
I'm actually thinking aboutdoing a public post about this,
just to show the pain of what ittakes to try to put one of
these events on.
It's insane.
I did six sites visits in 10days.
Uh, and I'm, I'm sure, forthose of you listening right now
, I am shopping for 2027 venuesright now, because it's that's
(12:09):
what you have to do in thisthing to book them a year out.
Naomi Liu (12:12):
You have to book them two years out two years out,
minimum two.
Mike Rizzo (12:17):
That's like the norm and you know ideally beyond
that for some of these places.
And what's really scary is theyask for like money up front,
right and so most of that that'sbased on your fnd minimum.
Y'all, some of two, actually,out of the six, I want to say
three or four of them wereasking for a food and beverage
(12:38):
minimum of three hundred andfifty thousand dollars.
You guys, I mean?
Naomi Liu (12:45):
I mean, we can do it, but like are?
Mike Rizzo (12:49):
we eating caviar and steaks for every meal I mean,
we can do it I actually it'sfunny.
Michael Hartmann (12:56):
All of our, anybody who's involved with
intimately with events probablygoes like oh yeah, they keep it,
they have a program.
I have no idea if that's, Imean it's a big number, right
like, but I don't know if it'sthe norm or if it's high, low
like.
Mike Rizzo (13:10):
I have no context I mean, and and it's all relative
right, so, like for thoselistening, our event is
approximately 450 to 500 people.
Right, that's, that's whatwe're going to see in person,
probably this year, and lastyear we had 437.
The year before it was 330.
So we are growing.
But if you do the math, the$350,000 that you spend on food
(13:35):
and beverage per head count,that's before taxes and gratuity
.
So if you add that on top,you're talking like a thousand
bucks per head for effectivelylike two days of food.
And you're not feeding themthree meals a day, folks.
You're giving them usually somelight breakfast and a solid
lunch.
I don't know what we're eatingto be able to do that, it'll
(13:58):
like, even if we could affordthat, we can't afford it.
Just to be very clear.
Like we cannot afford that,yeah, um, even if we could, I am
confident that at that volumeof attendees, that is actual
food waste, like that's.
That's what it's going to turninto is like we literally would
just have to order food just tohit the minimum and it would
just get thrown away, which I,which I just won't do business
(14:18):
with venues that that want tostick to their guns on that kind
of stuff.
So, anyway, just to like giveyou the stark offset, there are
other venues that offer ahundred thousand dollar food and
beverage minimum, right, soit's like totally arbitrary, uh,
for for the same amount ofspace, same cost of the room,
nights.
Like it's uh, it's all crazy,but anyway, uh, I digress.
(14:39):
Mopsapalooza is october 27ththrough 29th 2025.
This year.
It's at the west end in anaheim.
We are currently wrapping upour uh ticket holder voting
phase, so if you have a ticket,you can go in and rate and
review all the sessions and thenhelp us create the community
event that you want to see, thatmobs of palooza.
(15:00):
We'll announce all the speakersin the lineup in late july.
The workshops are pretty wellsolidified at this point.
Um, we have a lot of workshophosts this year, which I'm
really excited about.
Um, and then I actually got amessage from a couple of the
attendees that were super firedup because they've always wanted
to do Disney in Halloween, um,and so they're grabbing our
(15:23):
magic pass and they're like,yeah, I'm going to Disney
because it's going to beHalloween.
Michael Hartmann (15:28):
I was like, oh right yeah, I forgot for the
record that was not me.
Hey, it's not for everyone, notmy jam yeah I get it, that's
okay.
Yeah, yeah, I want to know whatis naomi speaking, because
that's what I want to go seenaomi oh yeah, we're doing it.
Naomi Liu (15:43):
Yeah, we're doing another panel right.
Mike Rizzo (15:45):
Yep, you, you and me , mike yep, we'll do a panel,
should we should we um?
Naomi Liu (15:50):
should we wear costumes like have it be themed
spooky?
Oh, that would be kind of funright as your.
I don't know what would thetheme be?
Mike Rizzo (15:59):
we'd have to come up with some like marketing puns,
right like I was, like I wasyeah, your favorite moves.
I one time I wanted to like, uh, act like a pop-up banner and
just like, just like, walkaround and then, like like, step
in front of somebody and justlike, hold up a sign.
Naomi Liu (16:18):
That's so funny.
Michael Hartmann (16:19):
Like a chat bot.
Mike Rizzo (16:20):
Yeah, yeah, like okay, but anyway I'm excited
about it.
Um, yeah, we had like 15 of ourattendees buy tickets to come
back right away.
Um, this year it's awesome lastyear for this year, so so
that's that's really exciting.
But, um, yeah, beautiful hotel,a little bit more intimate, um,
(16:43):
because it's like I've beenthere, weston, it's a.
Michael Hartmann (16:45):
It's a nice venue, yeah.
Mike Rizzo (16:47):
Yeah, really, really excited about it.
They're about as old as ourconference is, so about three
years old, so I'm pretty pumped.
But, yeah, that's gosh.
I think that's everything for2025 that has sort of been
happening I did talk about onthe webinar this week, and
something else that I'm excitedabout is we're doing more
(17:08):
research this year, releasingmore of that out into the wild,
so the first report is availableto our members.
It's the state of data-drivendecision-making, the mouthful in
go-to-market specifically, andthere's a lot of really good
nuggets in there around how data, data, data quality, and some
of the teams are organizingaround, um, the use of data for
(17:32):
effective go-to-market strategy,um, so this is a way for us to
go a lot deeper on some of thatannual benchmark study stuff
that we do with the state of themo pro research.
Michael Hartmann (17:40):
Is this a new one?
Or is this uh because I knowyou do this state of the mo pros
, which is no like coming into athird or fourth year, right?
I think it'll be its fifth year, fourth year, okay, I don't
know.
So this is a different research.
Mike Rizzo (17:56):
This is different research.
Yeah, we're referring to theseas pulse reports.
We're going to try to pump themout roughly once a quarter-ish
but effectively just likegetting a state on like what's
going on in our, in our industry, around very specific topics.
So the first topic is arounddata and data quality.
The second topic, that is, wefinished the research collection
(18:19):
phase and we're just going intodesign mode now for the study,
but it'll be released in acouple of months and it's around
rev ops and rev tech and justlike wtf is going on in revenue
operations, like what is this?
Um, yeah, and and so that thatthat one I'm particularly
excited about.
And then the third one we'reentering that research phase now
(18:41):
where we're actually going tocollect all the data from all of
you, uh that want toparticipate.
Um is going to be around moreof your like kpis and benchmarks
, right, like uh, what's?
Michael Hartmann (18:51):
your salary level kpis a bit more.
Mike Rizzo (18:53):
So yeah, performance yeah, more like your team, your
marketing operations team andsizes like stuff.
That where you're like how do Isort of understand me and my
role, me and my team, me and myorg relative to those that are
out there.
And then by pulling all threeof those pieces together, we'll
(19:14):
be able to also recreate thestate-of-the-mill pro research
and give everybody access tothat at the end of the year as
well.
So, effectively, we're breakingapart the state-of-the-mill pro
research, going deeper and thenpulling it back together in
sort of a bespoke study andreleasing that, as you might
expect, at moffsapalooza.
So, yeah, are you?
Michael Hartmann (19:36):
are you um?
Are you open to ideas orsuggestions for additional areas
of research?
Mike Rizzo (19:44):
of course, yeah, yeah, because it doesn't need to
be the exact same like patternevery single time.
Yeah, so, whether that's you oranybody listening like, you're
welcome to tell us what you wantus to study.
Um, cause we've got a wholecommunity of people that
probably are interested in thesame topic.
Michael Hartmann (20:01):
of course, now I'm sure there's got to be
something about AI and itsimpacts.
I would be curious to.
I think it'd be interesting.
You're doing the RevTech one.
I'd be curious if there'sanything that we're looking into
(20:22):
about what is happening interms of technologies that might
disrupt, like the entrenchedplayers right, like I keep
believing that there's going tobe something that's going to
come along and just be sort of awhole new ball game in terms of
how things like a signal, likeyeah, an alternative to
(20:43):
salesforce that just doesn't dothe same thing in the same way,
but maybe just saying you know,so I'm just like anyway, but
that's that would be interestingto me, like to hear about
what's going on there, whatpeople are seeing, what they're
looking for yeah, um,interestingly, I met a team
yesterday um, I'll give them ashout out, which obviously I I
(21:07):
try to avoid.
Mike Rizzo (21:08):
They're they're not a paid sponsor, uh of any kind,
so just full disclaimer there.
I literally just met them lastnight.
They're based in Australia.
Um, it's a company called theZepic, z E P I C For those of
you that feel like you want togo look it up Um, they they're
doing something interesting.
Um, they're really startingmore with, like, the data layer,
and I think that that sort oflike scratches at what you're
(21:30):
talking about.
Hartman, I bet you there's moreof them out there where, like
you're starting with more oflike a data first, um approach
to building like a marketingautomation platform.
Um, versus, like you know, theboxed sort of objects.
So for them it's like anythingis an object, like you could
literally like your chair as a,because they kind of they cater
(21:51):
more to the b2c side.
He was like explaining to mehe's like, look, your chair
could be an object and then eachof the pieces of the chair can
be features and assets and youknow metadata of that object the
arm, the skews, like all thisstuff and like you could do that
for like literally anything,and then you create a relational
database and a crm and amarketing automation platform
that allows you to engage withlike highly personalized
(22:14):
relationships between betweenthese objects.
It's arguably you could do inb2b too, but it was just
fascinating to see the like.
The approach to buildingtechnology now, I think, is
going to change based on whatwe're seeing in the market.
Right, like you look at whatClay's doing and kind of pushing
the agenda forward on this ideaof like go-to-market
(22:36):
engineering and like sort of abuild first, like slow down to
speed up, kind of mindset, Ithink we're going to see that
come to fruition in products too.
Right, it's not.
It's going to end up being likealmost we talked about this
years ago, I yeah we were sayinglike I feel like there's gonna
be lots of warehouse native likethings that are gonna happen.
That's that that I think is uponus at this point I'm trying to
(22:59):
remember, like who we there's.
Michael Hartmann (23:01):
I can't remember who it was we talked to
, but yeah, I remember that.
Curious, naomi, would you like?
Would you find it interesting?
You think people would be likeyours?
I think it's one thing that'sbeen interesting and I've talked
to a couple of people.
But I know like your scope ofresponsibility has expanded like
a couple times now beyond wait,you can quote quotes right,
traditional marketing, ops,right, um, do you think it would
(23:24):
be like?
You think there are things thatwould be useful for people in
our audience who aspire to growand expand and have different
career paths?
What are the challenges, whatmakes sense, what can be
leveraged from what you've doneinto these expanded roles?
Naomi Liu (23:43):
Yeah, I mean, I think , absolutely.
I think part of the strugglethat I've had is even just
finding people that I can bounceideas off of, that have been in
similar situations.
And so there was someone that Imet actually at Adobe Summit
earlier this year, where we wereboth in marketing ops and she
also managed BDRs or an insideself team, and when we looked at
(24:04):
each other we're like, oh myGod, did we just find another
like you know're just like waitwhat you know, sweet we were so
excited.
Mike Rizzo (24:12):
You're a four-leaf clover like me, I know.
Naomi Liu (24:14):
Oh my god and uh, it just like it was.
It wasn't planned, it was justsomething like I, when I
mentioned like, my scope ofresponsibility, you could see
her eyes line up and she waslike what?
So we immediately made a, madea, um, a note to chat post from
it and yeah, it was great, and Ithink that's just something
that has been rare, right.
(24:37):
And I think when it comes tomarketing ops, like despite the
industry being a bit more maturenow, it's still there's still a
wide range of what people areresponsible for.
Right, I'll meet marketing opspeople that part of their scope
of work is like demand gen orcopywriting or like being
(25:01):
responsible for the actual likedevelopment of the nurture
program, right, and whereas,like I am not, like we're purely
operational, right, and thenthey're teamed that are not
necessarily as involved invendor evaluations or contracts
or you know the financial sideof things or even negotiating
(25:23):
with vendors about you know theneeds of the business, like kind
of leave that to procurementteams or whatnot, right.
And so I think justunderstanding where the gaps are
for people is that the companydoesn't want that to fall under
marketing ops or is it thatthere is?
It's like chicken egg carthorse type situation, like you
(25:44):
don't know what you don't know.
And how do you get thatexperience unless you are
trained on it right or it justkind of falls under your onto
your radar?
Um, so I think a lot of that isjust finding like-minded people
that overlap on the smallernuances, the fringe things that
can come up.
And especially for me, asidefrom the BDRs, I'm heavily,
(26:10):
heavily, heavily involved insales enablement and sales
onboarding.
Sales manager starts like thesecond or third conversation
they might have is with me,right which is here is access to
all the tools that you need.
This is our process.
This is how you progress anopportunity forward.
This is how, like a lot of that, all vendery, right, and that's
(26:33):
interesting, trying to pointthem to the right team, right.
So so yeah, it's a lot, that isa lot.
Michael Hartmann (26:42):
I've been in similar ones where I always tell
people I try to definemarketing options.
Pretty much everybody has apossibility for the tech stack,
the marketing tech stack, andusually campaign operations or
something like campaignoperations and data and probably
reporting analytics to somelevel and the amount can vary.
(27:03):
But when you start gettingthings like you, I've had a
small inbound BDR or SDR team.
I've had responsibility forwebsites and the operations of
those, not the content, but likethe underpinnings and that kind
of stuff.
I have had content teams.
Before marketing ops was a thingand then you touched on it
(27:26):
right Managing budgets, managingresources whether that's
headcount or consult andnegotiating that.
And I remember distinctly whenit came time for renewal with a
technology vendor, how me, myboss and our procurement person
all sort of we strategized aboutthe roles we were each going to
(27:48):
play and how we interacted withthem, right to the point.
Like I was the one trying tolike I'm on your side and my
boss was the one beating himover the head, the pubic god was
like I just need the numbersright.
And unless you've gone throughthat right or had the
opportunity like to be exposedto that, it's not something that
most people get to do so.
(28:10):
Maybe that's an opportunity,mike, for some additional like I
don't know, like coaching,training, whatever you're
smiling yeah, no, my head.
Mike Rizzo (28:22):
I was gonna say that earlier, when naomi was like
talking about the, um, sort ofthe serendipity of being able to
find somebody that has like asimilar thing.
Right, like when we weretalking at the by the way, none
of this is scripted folks, solike it is absolutely just a
natural conversation Um, uh,when you're talking about like
finding someone that has thesame skillset as you or whatever
(28:44):
, um, those are the types ofthings that we're trying to do
with the membership program,right, like we're we're
engineering ways for you to findthose connections.
So you can imagine a programfor Naomi where I ask all of the
folks that are signing up nowhey, give us a sense of your
role and responsibilities.
Right, if you actually buildout your profile on
(29:04):
marketingopscom it is aLinkedIn-esque style profile you
can give us your job history,your work experience, your
certifications and some of yourskills and we eventually will be
able to get to a place where wecan pair you up in sort of
these micro sort of groups for aperiod of let's call it a month
.
Right, where we can hostdiscussions and go deep on
(29:24):
topics or introduce you to eachother like cohorts exactly, yeah
, operative word cohorts, um,and and that's exactly what like
we're, we're leaning in on,we're starting with more like
role based, you know, are you amanager, independent contributor
, senior manager, director, vp,or more so?
At least you're within a peergroup?
That's sort of like someexperiencing different things,
(29:47):
but we can go a whole bunch ofdifferent directions, uh, and so
when naomi shared that with me,that's exactly where my head
went right.
It's like, oh great, we shouldfigure out a way to bring people
together for some of the thingsthat they're responsible for,
um, which then also means thatif you're listening to this,
like, if you have other ideas ofcohorts that we should try to
pull together, send them to us,because that's what we want to
do is like, make it easier foryou to learn from each other and
(30:10):
shorten that learning curve.
So, yeah, that's a lot, though,naomi.
Um, coincidentally, um, I didsee someone posting yet again um
on LinkedIn about, uh, the BDR,sort of SDR function rolling
into like a RevOps marketing.
Really, it was actually not evena RevOps org, because that's
(30:32):
just like sales ops 2.0, butlike it was actually a marketing
ops function person.
That was like, oh, I'm, I'msort of like taking over on this
now, or I'm like more heavilyinvolved and I I personally
think it's like a really goodmove for for the organizations
that have the leader that canhandle it.
I think it's a super good move,um, but I do think it takes
(30:54):
time to be able to and I wouldlove your thoughts on it right
now.
I mean like it probably takestime and experience in role to
like get to and I would loveyour thoughts on it right now.
I mean like it probably takestime and experience in role to
like get to a place where youcan make an impact right, like
you kind of have to know theinner workings of that's my
sense anyways like you have toreally know the inner workings
of the business to be able tolike be an impactful sort of
leader for the sdr bdr function.
(31:15):
Would you agree?
Naomi Liu (31:16):
yeah, yeah absolutely , yep, absolutely, because, um,
I you know and I was very honestwith the team when I started
managing them is, you know, Idon't have a sales background.
I get sold to online, right, orpeople try to pitch me, but I
don't have a sales factor.
And, excuse me, can we editthat out?
Michael Hartmann (31:40):
Yeah, we'll cut it for you Very live.
Naomi Liu (31:42):
Very live, yeah, but what I can offer them and I
think this is something that hasbeen very beneficial and has
caused a lot of success sinceI've taken over the team is I am
very data focused, right, andI'll give you an example.
(32:03):
So my example is if you can makeand I'm just making, these are
just I'm just making these upright, if you can make, you know
12 very highly qualified callsin a day, right, where you have
done your research on theaccount, you look the person up
on linkedin or sales navigatoruse you know kind of identify
their history, found like a talktrack that you can talk to them
(32:24):
about, theme their history insalesforce, know where to look
at and mark head out to see,like, what they're doing, are
they engaging with our contentor whatnot.
And I've trained doing all ofthat because you know I, my team
on the op side, we handle allof that and you're able to make
12 calls a day.
Let's look at the historicaldata that we have in terms of uh
(32:44):
lead source and the conversionrates from.
If you're getting compensated,for example, on opportunity
creation or setting appointmentsfor our sales managers, where
what are the leads and thesource, where you're going to
have the best chance to setthose appointments and create
(33:07):
those opportunities.
And then, additional on top ofthat, where are you going to uh,
like, what is the close ratefor those?
All right, arming them withthis information allows them to
prioritize the calls thatthey're making in a given day.
So it's not just like I'm goingto dial for dollars type of
situation right, first in, firstout, and and so when they have
(33:30):
that information at theirfingertips and I'm training them
where to look and how toprioritize and what they should
be doing, they've been killingit honestly.
Yeah, should be doing.
They've been killing it honestly, yeah, and they've been like
yeah that's awesome, I believeit?
Mike Rizzo (33:44):
yeah, I believe it.
Michael Hartmann (33:45):
Well, I know I think we I can't remember what,
but I remember we were on oneof these with a recent guest
named me and you were sayingsome things about like what
you've learned, like I thinkthere's also value in having a
perspective of understandingwhat that team, that kind of
function, has to do.
Yeah, to help you in whateveryou've historically been doing
(34:06):
in marketing ops, because I'mnot surprised, right?
I am a big believer thatunderstanding that contact with
it.
I believe there's a lot ofpeople in marketing and
marketing ops who don'tunderstand that and then dismiss
it or think it's easy orwhatever.
And I think having thatexposure is valuable and I love
(34:27):
the idea that you're doing itthe other way too right, you're
helping them understand what'savailable to them so they can do
better.
Naomi Liu (34:33):
Yeah, and I think that's been a natural
progression into like the salesenablement stuff too.
That you know, when a new hirestarts, a new sales manager
starts, it's like okay, ofcourse they get Salesforce
access and then you know this is, you know how stuff works.
But it's also just reallytraining them on the nuances, on
you know how do we set thingsup and like, what are all of
(34:54):
these features mean?
Of these features mean, who arethe BDRs that support them?
What are all the tools that areavailable to them?
Because there is a lot ofoverlap with sales and marketing
tools, right, even if it's likeMarketo Marketo has a Marketo
Sales Insight, right, that actsas a plugin that can sit on the
salesperson's outlook and theycan also look in Salesforce and
(35:14):
see what they're doing.
So there a lot of like naturaloverlap with training and
because a lot I think people inmarketing ops should really take
a um, raise their hand rightand be part of, like that
onboarding process when asalesperson starts at the
organization, right, because weoften talk about like, oh,
(35:35):
marketing and sales alignment,but what does that actually mean
?
Does it mean just like you'retalking to them or like fitting
in a call with them.
But how about really likespending that one-on-one time
and training them on themarketing tools that overlap
with sales?
I think that's so important.
Um, I spend hours with newsales people that join on.
(35:55):
You know, here's linton salesnavigator.
This is your license.
This is how you use it.
This is what you how youconnect it into our salesforce
instance.
This is the bidyard.
This is marketo zones insight.
This is how you've heard alltogether.
Mike Rizzo (36:06):
Okay, let's touch base in four weeks and see how
you're doing yeah yeah, I lovethat it's that kind of
enablement stuff that like Ilove that you gave some of the
concrete examples of likeexactly what you're sort of
referring to, because like itdoesn't matter how much we sort
of shout it out into the etherright when, like I say all the
time, you know I think amarketing ops professional is
(36:27):
best suited to grow into a revops role everybody pre-funnel
here's, everybody post-funneland conversion and renewal and
so on and so forth, that you getto have a contextual
conversation about enablementand the art of the possible in a
way that, generally speaking,other operations or you know,
(36:49):
players don't have fullvisibility into that and they
don't have the context.
You, we in marketing operations, like we're forced to
understand that full journey.
Uh, because that's like that'show we evaluate the success of
our, of our efforts andimplementations of products.
Like people don't understandand so like, arguably everything
you just described, naomi, isrev ops right, but like you're a
(37:13):
marketing us professional andyou know, and you're enabling a
sales team and you'reunderstanding the, the, the
journey, and like what, howsomething moves through to the
next stage, and you know, andthen you're training people on
that.
Um, I know we're coming up ontime.
I feel like it, like we coulddo a sneak peek maybe just uh,
(37:34):
of the of, of some of the datawe have, of, like, the state of
the driven.
Do you want to look at it or no?
Do we have time?
Michael Hartmann (37:40):
Sure, I think we have a few minutes right.
Mike Rizzo (37:44):
Okay, here we'll do.
I'll screen share so for thosethat get to watch this on video,
you can go look at the screen.
I guess I'll try to zoom in alittle so that we can actually
see.
This is our latest research thestate of the data-driven
decision making in GoToMarket.
I just clicked through to acouple of the subsections
because we have a whole table ofcontent here that sort of
(38:06):
outlines what we went into Forthose of you listening.
We went into data maturity andstrategy, data usage and tools,
challenges in culture, peopleand organizational impact, some
forward-looking trends.
We got some crowdsourcecuriosity, like basically some
information on data strategy.
That's the beauty of AI andopen text fields these days and
(38:31):
then we actually get a littleaction plan for you on, like how
to operationalize against someof this information.
So in this section, data usageand tools I just stopped on this
one because I thought it was aninteresting enough nugget.
The question was what are yourorganization's top three data
priorities for the next 12months?
And the number one, of course,was data quality and hygiene.
Number two was unifying dataacross platforms, so it's like
(38:54):
data integration.
And number three it actuallyshows up sort of down here is
automating reporting indashboards All right, so I'll
pause here, just any quickthoughts, as this comes as a
surprise to either of you.
Michael Hartmann (39:12):
I know, not in general, no, like my, and my
gut reaction, though, is likethe whole automating, reporting
and dashboards.
I think I it wouldn't be nearthe top of my list because I'm
especially with the dashboardword I just I think.
I think actionable insightswould be more the way I would
think about it.
Mike Rizzo (39:31):
Yeah, especially.
Michael Hartmann (39:32):
AI enabled ones.
Mike Rizzo (39:34):
Yeah, dashboards for me are like I don't know
they're almost a four-letterword.
Michael Hartmann (39:42):
I could not agree more.
Mike Rizzo (39:46):
It doesn't tell a good story.
I don't know.
I don't know why we even havethe dashboard, Like is it a set
it and forget it kind of thing.
It's just not good.
I did meet a team that's reallymuch better.
Naomi Liu (39:53):
The worst is when you make them and then we're in
salesforce and then you can,because they don't display the
most up-to-date informationright and you have to like
manually hit refresh yeah, andthen the worst is like when you
spend all this time building itit's a priority and then you go
back in like a month later andit hasn't been refreshed for
like three and a half weeks.
It's half exactly why, like.
Michael Hartmann (40:12):
Thank you for wasting my time on there's an
opportunity for sales enablementand training.
Mike Rizzo (40:17):
Yeah, well, in section two, under data maturity
and strategy, we found thatmost marketing organizations are
still in the process ofmaturing digitally and we get
into some of the nuance here wetalk about.
Like, we asked the question howwould you rate your
organization's digital maturity?
And, uh, the bulk of them saidthat it's sort of intermediate.
(40:38):
They're like operationalizingsome data practices, but it's
still pretty siloed.
And then, uh, the next sort oftwo highest were around more
like developing and advanced.
So we're seeing this sort of umreally like I don't know,
introductory, intermediatesegment take the lead, and then
it's like a split between thosethat are just getting started
and those that have some levelof maturity and advanced
(40:59):
capabilities, which isinteresting.
This is over 270 people that areanswering this, so it's not
like insignificant findings.
Right like we're.
We're surveying a pretty largelandscape of folks here.
Um, and then, just in theinterest of time, I'll sort of
rifle through a couple more forus.
We saw that about one in fivestudy participants have no
(41:22):
dedicated analytics andreporting full-time employees,
ftes which is pretty shocking.
Michael Hartmann (41:29):
Yeah, nearly half of them had analytics and
reporting as a high priority.
Mike Rizzo (41:33):
Exactly right.
Yeah, when you start to look atthe correlation between the
high priority and the lack offull-time employment, that
starts to give you a signal for,well, where is a hiring effort
going to be made?
Or where do we need to contract, or what skills do I need to
ramp up of my own to be able tosupport the organization?
Um, that's how you can readbetween the line on some of this
, some of this data, of thisdata, and then I'll just sort of
(41:55):
the last one is some of thecrowdsource curiosities peers on
data strategy.
Um, the question studyparticipants would like, would
most like, to ask their peersrelates to data governance and
data quality, and what we did iswe sort of chunked all of these
things out in terms of rankingsof questions by the study
participants themselves.
(42:16):
So, for those of you that wantto come in and have a
conversation around data quality, governance and assurance, we
would love for you toparticipate and contribute some
of your thoughts.
But there's questions about likewhat is your data governance
strategy?
And then, how did you implementa unified, multi-touch revenue
attribution model?
These are all top of mind forour community and if you go
(42:40):
download this report, it isavailable.
Like I said to our pro and proplus members, if we do get it
sponsored, we'll release it tosome folks for free.
Unfortunately, folks, the innerworkings of building these is
it's very, very expensive and wewant to create high quality
research, so these are firstavailable to our members.
But if you do go get this,there's lots, lots of really
(43:02):
good information in here.
We'd love for you to sort ofjoin in on the conversation, but
it was a nice transitionbecause you, naomi, were talking
so much about data and how itenables your ability to have a
successful sales org, right?
So, yeah, I figured it'd be funto sort of highlight some of
those things that's awesome wellI know we all got a jam yeah
(43:26):
it's always fun, so thanks y'allany
last thoughts before we we headout no, just hit me with your
ideas, folks.
This community is for you,built by you.
Michael Hartmann (43:41):
The podcast intro is it's powered by all the
mo pros out there right same istrue for everything else we're
doing, so you know, let us know,we're here for you I always
love when people you ask thequestion anything else that
people know and then they gointo something else, just like
you did.
Mike Rizzo (43:56):
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah , yeah, call you out on it.
Yeah, it's all good, all good,all good I'm just gonna sit
there and smile next time thereyou go.
Michael Hartmann (44:08):
Just a pretty face.
There you go.
Oh, I forgot, just like I'vebeen wearing my 2023 mops with
palooza shirt lately too, solove it, I love it.
Mike Rizzo (44:17):
I found a stack of marketing off stickers.
Naomi Liu (44:20):
the other day I was like oh, nice yeah.
Mike Rizzo (44:23):
Make sure you hand those out at the next local
chapter meetup that you sort ofquasi run, Naomi.
Naomi Liu (44:30):
I missed them.
Michael Hartmann (44:31):
There's one in the DFW area this morning and I
just couldn't get to it.
Oh bummer, that's all right.
Mike Rizzo (44:38):
Excellent, I've got a bunch of Monopoly boards I'm
giving away at MOPSA this year.
For sure there's I don't know,I'm staring at a bunch of them.
I got to end those out.
But we're only going to begiving out shirts to the Magic
(45:00):
Pass attendees this year because, um, we're just trying to be
reasonable about costs and makesure we can host a good event.
So we got one of the early ones, the quality of the, the, the
speakers and the truth.
Michael Hartmann (45:09):
Yeah, I don't know.
Mike Rizzo (45:10):
Yeah, I mean especially if we end up having
to pay 350 000 for food and foodand beverage.
Michael Hartmann (45:15):
Just kidding, we're not doing that.
Mike Rizzo (45:17):
We're not doing that .
Michael Hartmann (45:20):
Awesome.
Well, again, thanks to you all.
It's always fun.
Thanks to our listeners forcontinuing to support us.
As Mike said, we're always opento ideas, knowledge for the
podcast topics, for guests youcan reach out to any of us but
also for feedback on stuff forthe Riz community that you can
take to Mike.
I don't want to hear it.
Mike Rizzo (45:41):
Let's take it to the Rizzo, that's right, all right,
until next time.
Michael Hartmann (45:47):
Bye, everybody , bye everyone, thank you.
Bye.
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