April 21, 2025 • 43 mins
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When your marketing team needs to produce thousands of content pieces each month, the operational challenges can become overwhelming. In this eye-opening conversation with Satej Sirur, founder and CEO of Rocketium, we explore the emerging field of Creative Operations and how it's transforming how enterprise brands manage their content production.
Satej shares how his "pet project" evolved into a platform that now helps performance marketers and creative teams work more efficiently together. We unpack the fundamental tension between creative expression and performance optimization - a struggle familiar to anyone who's tried balancing brand guidelines with marketing results.
The most fascinating insights come when we discuss what makes creative content perform well. While marketers claim to be data-driven, few have systematically analyzed which creative elements drive results. Should your logo be larger in awareness campaigns? Does showing a product outside its packaging perform better than inside? Most decisions rely on gut feelings rather than data. Rocketium changes this by extracting creative attributes and correlating them with performance metrics to identify winning patterns.
For organizations producing high volumes of content (2,000+ pieces monthly) with substantial teams (10+ members) and significant ad spend ($5-10M minimum), Creative Ops solutions offer a way to eliminate repetitive tasks and focus on strategic decisions. Satej emphasizes that technology alone isn't enough - implementing these solutions requires a cultural shift toward data-informed decision-making while still respecting creative expertise.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Hello and welcome to another episode of OpsCast
brought to you byMarketingOpscom, powered by all
the MoPros out there.
I'm your host, michael Hartman,flying solo today.
Joining me today to discuss howto create content at scale is
Satyaj Surur.
I know you told me how to do it.
I think I still butchered it sowe'll get there.
Satyaj is founder and CEO ofRocketium.
(00:23):
Satyaj is passionate aboutstartups, technology and the
positive impact startups cancreate with technology.
He started rocket team in 2015after a decade of experience
spanning multiple roles in techproduct business across multiple
geographies india, us I thinkyou're in the us now at startups
like rocket team, taxi, forsure and at trillion-dollar
(00:46):
companies like Amazon andMicrosoft.
So, satish, thank you forjoining me today.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
Glad to be here, Michael.
Thank you for having me Allright.
Speaker 1 (00:55):
Well, what our audiences know is I try to make
sure I pronounce names correctlyand I think I failed, even
though we tried it for this.
So do what we can, you know.
All right, well, so let's getinto this right away.
So you founded Rectium in 2015.
And I'm curious I'm alwayscurious about, you know, the
(01:18):
founding of these companies andthings like what led to the
start of that.
Was there something, you know,a problem, an opportunity, a
challenge that you saw thatinspired you to start the
company?
Speaker 2 (01:30):
Yeah.
So I really wish there were areal problem and an insight that
I had that somebody somewherehas a problem that I want to
solve and that is why thiscompany needs to exist.
But, as it happened, this was apet project that I had in my
head for a decade, and when theprevious company where I was
working got acquired by acompetitor, I was flush with
(01:52):
cash.
I had no ideas about what to donext, because for the few years
before that, that company wasmy whole life, so I didn't
really have options.
So the only thing I knew wasthis pet project that I had in
my head.
I said, said let's breathe thelife into it.
And no real idea of who wantsit, except I want it to exist.
That is how rocket team started,but luckily, uh, in a couple of
(02:15):
years we realized some peoplehave a problem.
We tried to solve that.
Then we realized another set ofpeople have a problem.
But five years ago we got intothe space where we are today and
and thankfully, since then wehave not changed direction.
No more pivots.
But we are very excited aboutthe space in which we are
operating Large teams, marketing, creative, trying to solve
(02:36):
problems for them that are notsolved by the 3,000 marketing
software that exists not solvingit.
So that's why RocketEam exists.
Speaker 1 (02:44):
Well, I think it's more than 3,000, but yeah, so
it's a bit of a field of dreamsproject, right?
If you build it, they will come.
Speaker 2 (02:52):
That was the mistaken view with which I had started,
but yeah, I learned my lessonthe hard way.
Speaker 1 (02:58):
Well, but still, I mean, I think there's something
to be said about how innovationcan come about from something
like that.
All right, so you've calledwhat your company does creative
ops at scale, right?
So first up is, you know mostof our audience is in marketing
operations, so I'd love you tosort of define what you mean by
(03:19):
creative ops and how itintersects or relates to
marketing operations as well.
Speaker 2 (03:26):
Yeah.
So, as the folks who live andbreathe marketing ops know, it
is very hard to describe whatyou do to your mother, because
it's all the little things, it'sall the stuff in between, it's
the cement, it's the glue, it'sthe intangibles that you're
trying to solve for right.
Ultimate goal is very clearwhat you're trying to do, but
the way you do it, the toolsthat exist, it's sort of this
(03:48):
in-between worlds kind of stuff.
So that is really whatCreativeOps is.
The core problem that we aretrying to solve for our
customers is that, on aday-to-day basis, they are
working on getting the rightcontent out so that they can run
campaigns that reach people.
Eventually, the goal of anymarketing content, whether
(04:08):
through creative or anythingelse, is to persuade somebody to
your point of view, and in ourcase, it is images, videos, gifs
, that sort of content that hasto be made as we work with large
agencies and large brands.
They have diverse audiencesacross regions, people with
different preferences, manychannels in which they need to
(04:29):
reach these people, so the scaleof content really goes up.
The number of teams and peopleand voices that have to be
involved in this process goes up, and all of them are on
different tools, the tools thatthey have for the job.
They are best in class but notreally built for the ops of it,
which is, all of these teamshave to make content at scale,
(04:49):
give it to somebody else to dothe reviews, incorporate all the
feedback, check for platformguidelines, brands own best
practices, and then analyze andsay all of these thousands of
decisions that we made, which ofthose is working, which of
those is not working?
Now they are doing that in sixor seven, eight different tools,
passing stuff to each other,and that is what RocketEam is
(05:10):
trying to solve.
How do you make sure thatmarketing and creative teams are
able to put out the right kindof content across channels to
the audience?
Do it quickly, do it withouttoo much pain and do it without
too much spend.
Speaker 1 (05:30):
I mean, up until you talked about the performance
stuff, it sounded it seemed likethere's some overlap with what
I've.
I guess it was digital assetmanagement.
Is there a component of itthat's like digital asset
management, or is it somethingthat works hand in glove with a
digital asset managementplatform?
Speaker 2 (05:43):
It's more the latter, because the job of asset
management is to be the systemof record for all of your
content.
Once stuff has been approvedand ready to use, it has to be
there so that different peoplecan take it.
But how does it even get there?
Somebody has to decide that.
Here is my marketing brief forthis audience.
This kind of campaign, thiskind of objective, these are my
(06:05):
assets of photo shoots andmodels and products and all of
that.
This is the copy, these are thetranslations.
I need to put all of thattogether into these five or ten
or twenty different base designsand multiply and get hundreds
of pieces of content once I makethose.
They are sitting in an assetmanagement software but most
times it is directly deployedonto paid ad channels or your
(06:27):
CRM and things like that.
But asset management isprobably best suited for your
core assets of your products andmodels and fonts and those
kinds of things and there is acomponent of that within
Rocketium, but we integrate withthe top.
Speaker 1 (06:44):
DAMs as well, okay, so it's more like the creative
ops is more about the productionof the assets and then it's
also with the deployment of themas well.
Speaker 2 (06:53):
Not really the form Got it Okay.
Speaker 1 (06:57):
Yeah, that makes sense.
Okay, Thanks for that clarity.
So, yeah, having been inmarketing ops roles and things
related to that for a while, I,you know, I know I've worked
with, like creative directorsand creative teams, but I always
struggle with like we actuallyI can think of a place where I
worked where creative there wasa creative team and there was a
content team, right, and Ialways struggled with like why
(07:19):
didn't they what you know, whywere they not more integrated?
And it's not like they didn'twork together.
It's just two separate teams,different objectives, right,
maybe not aligned, but so I hearcreative ops, so I think
creative type people, but I havea hard time separating that
from content.
So who would be the primaryusers of, you know, or the
(07:44):
beneficiaries of, creative ops,is it you know?
Anyway, go from there.
I'm just curious, like whatparts of a marketing
organization or organization ingeneral would be beneficiaries?
Speaker 2 (07:56):
Yeah.
So when you look at the broaderops space, there are many ways
to slice and dice it.
Today, we have limitedourselves to focusing on two
teams One is the creative teamand one is a performance team,
and so much so that our productsare named RocketEum Creative
and RocketEum Performance.
So when it comes to creativeteams, these are the ones who
are predominantly spending theirtime on design tools like
(08:18):
Photoshop, illustrator, figma.
So what we are trying to do forthem is to say here is a
familiar experience like thosedesign software which Rocketium
has built from scratch.
You don't have to use that.
If you don't want to, you canimport your Photoshop, figma,
illustrator files and templatizeit, the goal of that being when
you take that design templateand the brief that comes from
(08:40):
your marketing team, you cancombine those two and multiply
the content across differentsizes, across the different
content formats, so that youdon't have to do that copy paste
work in your design software.
Now people have the capabilityto do complex animations and
clip masking and whatever othercrazy design things that they
would like to do in our software, but the value of that comes in
(09:03):
the multiplication of thedesign, and it's not only
multiplying it blindly.
There are certain things thatyou would like to check.
For example, certain words arenot allowed, alignments have to
be checked, contrast between thebackground and foreground has
to be looked at.
Is it readable?
There are guidelines, such asAmericans with Disability Act,
about how accessible thiscontent is on the internet.
(09:25):
So the creative team has to doa lot of these things manually,
which is why they would like todo more creative and content
coming together, but there's alot of such operational work
that they have to do on a dailybasis.
So what Rocketium does is itchecks for many of these things
on its own flags someautocorrects for others.
It also has a review processright here so that you don't
(09:46):
have to then download thesefiles, prepare it for somebody
else to review and then get thefeedback.
So the feedback happens righthere.
So everything that RocketiumCreative does is looking at the
different steps of repetitive,manual, automatable things that
designers do, so that they canfocus on the purely creative
things and then come in in bitsand pieces and just check
(10:07):
whether everything is okay.
When it comes to Rocketiumperformance, it is doing
something similar forperformance marketers,
specifically solving theproblems around insights and
analytics of the creativechoices they've made.
So this part of the productconnects to the paid ad
platforms or you could uploadyour own custom data.
If it's not a standard platform, we extract the platform
(10:27):
metrics.
We also extract what's in thecreative so we can figure out
what sort of models and productsand layouts, colors, copy.
We can figure out more detailedinformation about it, saying
what sort of interaction isbetween the model and the
product.
For example, is the model nextto the product holding it using
it, and that sort of interactionis between the model and the
product.
For example, is the model nextto the product holding it using
it.
And and that sort ofinformation we extract so that
(10:50):
when a performance marketer isplanning for their next campaign
or they want to figure outwhere am I really leaking my
budget?
What do I want to improve, theycan look at that and say that
okay, great, I never had thisinsight before, that every time
a product is outside thepackaging versus inside, one
works a lot better than theother.
So that's what we do for theperformance marketer.
(11:11):
So that's really in the two wayswe solve this problem.
Speaker 1 (11:14):
So it's creative teams and performance marketing
or I mean performance marketing,I think is a relatively new
term call it demand gen ordemand creation type teams.
Is that the primary focus?
Speaker 2 (11:28):
Yeah, demand gen is the more B2B world which is what
you and I live in within themore retail brands or agencies
or people who are living andbreathing Facebook and meta and
Google ad platforms.
It's performance marketing,paid marketing.
Speaker 1 (11:46):
Okay, got it.
Okay, so more.
Okay, that's interestingbecause I hadn't tied
performance marketing as a thing, that's with B2C type
organization Okay.
So I have a really tacticalquestion about that.
So one of the struggles I thinkI know I've seen creative teams
run into is how to handle, howto produce creative that renders
(12:09):
well in both dark mode andlight mode.
So are you able to help withthat as well?
Speaker 2 (12:16):
So marketers have even more challenges because if
it goes onto Facebook or Googlesomewhere, you have a little
more controlled walled garden ofwhat the content appears next
to.
But as soon as it goes on to,let's say, a Google Display
Network or a Facebook audiencenetwork I mean, these are
technical words, not everybodyneeds to know, but the idea is
that when it goes on to a thirdparty website, you have no idea
(12:40):
what it's next to.
It could be a jarring, brightcolored website and yours is a
more subtle design.
So some of those challengesexist.
You cannot always solve for it,but really what you want to
stay true to is, a your brand,but b more importantly, who your
audience is.
If you know what your audiencecares about, sometimes they can
(13:00):
be forgiving, sometimes they'reon light mode, sometimes on dark
mode you cannot really controlfor that, but knowing what your
audience cares about, what sortof message resonates with them,
that is probably what's moreimportant, because you cannot
always control the thousands ofwebsites on which your content
goes, what it is in line withstuff around it.
Maybe there's an incendiarystory.
You can't always control it,but really you want the message
(13:23):
to connect with people.
Speaker 1 (13:29):
That's really what you want to focus on.
Yeah, I get, I get all that.
I guess I'm thinking more likethey're really like um, I've
worked with marketing.
I've worked with one marketingteam in particular.
That was very um, the like, thequality and and, uh uh, the the
match to brand standards ofcolors and things like that was
really really a priority forthem.
(13:50):
And one of the things we've runinto is, you know, when you say
, send an email to somebody andthey look it on their phone, if
their phone, if a person isusing dark mode, right, the
colors actually get out of whackand it's strange like that.
So that's really what I'mtalking about Specifically.
I get, I get like you can'tcontrol your like what's around
(14:11):
your content when you use an adnetwork or something like that.
But in terms of like how images, can you help with making
images that will work well bothin light mode and dark mode, if
someone, if you can't, get'tbecause you can't really control
for that, yeah it's.
Speaker 2 (14:27):
it's not very easy to do, but the the way we try to
solve for some of these thingsis to say what are your brand's
guidelines?
What are the platform's bestpractices?
Can we automatically check forthat?
Can we suggest changes that youshould be making?
We don't have anythingspecifically for light mode
versus dark mode, but differentbrands have their quirks and
their needs.
So somebody will say certainwords are just not allowed, or
(14:49):
our logo has to be larger thanevery other logo.
Sometimes people are manuallylooking for that and eyeballing
you could make a mistake.
So having software do thosechecks and flag those for you is
invaluable for companies thatoperate at a meaningful scale.
Speaker 1 (15:03):
Okay, yeah, and that makes sense, right, and I, like
I remember, cause I was actuallythat particular one there were
five brands I was supportingwith one business and they all
had their own.
You know brand guidelines forcolor, you know color palette
and things like that, and somewere fine when you go to dark
mode and some weren't rightDepending on the mix and that
(15:24):
was.
It was really hard to handlethat, okay, so you, I think
we've touched on this a littlebit, but maybe you go a little
deeper, is it?
Well, two parts of this, right?
So first, it sounds like youknow, when you talk about doing
things to scale, it sounds likethere's a lot of automation and
things like that, where you cando some standard kinds of checks
(15:53):
, even though it's probablyoversimplifying it, but it feels
like this is probably mostuseful for larger,
enterprise-type brands.
At the same time, I can imaginegrowing smaller organizations
might be interested in somethinglike this.
Like what?
Like what are the signals that,in terms of their business and
maybe a benchmark site, I don'tknow that would say, hey, like
(16:15):
this is something we need to bethinking about.
You know, cause we're spendinga certain amount of time
manually reviewing stuff and allthat?
What would that be like?
So, first off, am I right in myassumption that the the types
of organizations that mostbenefit from it?
And then, second, like what forthose that are not?
Because they might be smaller,like as they grow?
What's the, what's the signal?
Speaker 2 (16:36):
Yeah, yeah, so you're right, the company.
This product was built forlarge companies, people who are
operating at a massive scale.
In fact, it started with one ofthe largest companies in the
world.
But that is not the expectationthat unless you're Fortune 5,
you cannot use this software.
It definitely works forcompanies that are a little bit
smaller in scale as well, butreally, if you have two or three
(17:00):
people in your team, you aremaking maybe 50 100 pieces of
content a month.
You do not need something likethis because you could spend
half a day and do the copy pastework in a design software.
Do the reviews manually.
Um, if your ad spends, forexample, are less than maybe
three, five, ten million, thenmaybe the stakes are not.
(17:20):
Of course, for each company thestakes are equally high.
Course, for each company thestakes are equally high.
But, um, the amount of thedollars that you would lose
versus bringing in a softwarelike this?
We have a customer success teamthat we deploy with you.
We do quarterly businessreviews.
There's a lot of investmentfrom our side as well.
This is probably overkill foryou.
So, typically, teams that havemore than 10 team members
involved in this process betweendesigners, creative directors,
(17:43):
project managers, performancemarketers, 10 or more team
members, anywhere from 2,000plus pieces of content a month
and $5 to $10 million of paid adspend at a minimum.
That is where they really startseeing value in something like
this.
Speaker 1 (17:58):
I see, okay, so that's a good, good, good uh
thing.
So you know, I can imagineprobably not like startup type
companies, but call them teenagecompanies, right, yeah, mid,
mid-sized that are growing wouldcould easily get to that and
the pitch, if you hear it.
Speaker 2 (18:17):
What you are trying to do?
Uh, trying to bring intechnology, trying to make
versions of content for eachaudience.
That all sounds like motherhoodand apple pie.
Who is going to dispute that?
Of course I want it, even ifI'm a one member team.
I want it Right, but theoutcomes are great.
The ways to get to that may notbe a software like this.
You should anyway do it.
You should try and automate asmuch as you can.
(18:39):
There are great AI tools todayand you don't even need to look
for specialized tools.
The LLMs are doing a lot ofthis today, but as you get a lot
more scale, there are more egosin the room.
There are more voices that needto be heard.
That's when you need morespecialized software.
Speaker 1 (18:55):
Yeah, yeah, that makes sense.
Yeah, I think what you gethinted at is right, there's
trade-offs along all along theway, right?
So, and it's a good point,right, this is something that
probably everyone, if they'renot thinking about it, who's in
a creative world or, yeah,creative world is is should be
thinking about how to handle it.
So that's actually brings me toanother question.
So we talked about enterprisecompanies, large brands, high
(19:17):
volume, like can you maybe takethat and give us an example,
like you know, if you couldshare a real example of maybe
one of your clients, like whatdoes this look like on a
day-to-day basis?
You know what's a kind of likean example project or problem?
They're doing that, and thenhow would that happen with the
(19:39):
tool?
Speaker 2 (19:41):
Yeah.
So let me give you a couple ofexamples of two different worlds
.
One is the agency world and oneis a brand world.
In the brand world, what hadhappened was this company, which
I'll not name, preparing to goIPO, trying to cut down costs.
They had let go recently 40% oftheir team, which is
unfortunate, and now that theyhad let go of that team, they
(20:01):
said we still want to do thesame amount of work and that's
why we want to bring inautomation.
The tools that they were usingwere not enough and that's how
they discovered Rocket EM and wecame in.
What they were able to do withthat is the designs that they
were making on the other toolsthat they had, including
Photoshop and others.
They were able to bring that in, create a repository of
standardized designs, and thenthe performance marketing team,
(20:24):
which was on a very tighttreadmill of 2000 pieces of
content.
Every two weeks they used togive them a very structured
Excel with all the copy versionsfor every country and all the
different products for which ithad to be done, and so on.
That spreadsheet could be fedinto Rocketium and then you
start with the base design.
It automatically makes all thedifferent products for which it
(20:46):
had to be done, and so on.
That spreadsheet could be fedinto Rocketium and then you
start with the base design.
It automatically makes all thedifferent sizes for each
platform and then thespreadsheet comes into it,
almost like doing mail merge.
You would get the 2000 piecesof content for every two weeks
that they would have.
The first set of review happensright here, and before you can
even assign it to theperformance marketer to review,
you have already discovered manythings that have to be fixed.
(21:07):
You go and fix those things.
They review it.
Then one click, all of thefiles get renamed according to
your taxonomy, because this is avery common thing, especially
in the b2c world.
Your files have to be namedaccording to a very complex
format, because that is how youare naming your ads in the ad
platform.
So the automatic file naminghappens.
Every ad platform has strictguidelines for how large the
(21:32):
creative file should be.
So Rocketium automaticallyresizes all of these files.
So each of these steps thatwould have taken them half a day
here, quarter day there, twodays somewhere else, is
completely crashed.
And so now a team that is 40%smaller is doing the same amount
of work in a fraction of thetime, and now they can do more
value-adding work, like comingup with new creative ideas,
(21:53):
looking at analytics, which alsoRocketium has for this team to
say what sort of creativechoices are working.
For the agency that I talkedabout, there was a clear need,
which was to say that my clientsare asking for more cost
efficiency.
I have a 40-member team that isworking on this client and they
are saying how can you cut thisdown?
If I have to bring in Rocketium, I would like to free up at
(22:15):
least 10 people, and now theywere able to figure out how to
do that in a fraction of that,and the process the rest of the
process was the same.
So whether you have an in-houseteam that is doing it or an
outsource team doing iteverywhere, the problems are the
same that there's a lot of copypaste work, a lot of same thing
that I keep doing, and again,that can be automated.
So this was on the creativeside.
Similar thing, like I said,exists on the analytics side,
(22:40):
which is both of them.
Don't use it.
Another team does it, wherethey go to every platform,
download the data, clean it up,put it in a single Excel and
then they go and manually lookat every creative tag.
It then do analysis.
A Rocketium automates thatprocess.
A single dashboard where yousee cross-platform data.
It extracts the creativeinformation so you can see in
(23:02):
charts saying product inside thepackaging, outside the
packaging, two models, zeromodels, all of those kinds of
charts, and it gives youdirectionally what sort of
creative choices you should bemaking, how should you be
updating your campaigns.
You get all of that information.
So the before and after is verystark in all of these cases.
Speaker 1 (23:20):
Yeah, so I want to come back to the metrics, but so
what you described reminds me.
We had, not too long ago, acouple of guests on who were in
video production and we weretalking about how that has
evolved quite a bit over thelast several years, and they
mentioned a particular exampleof a big change for them has
(23:41):
been there are now tools thatsay I was thinking like a retail
type or consumer product good,where I think the example they
used was a cooler right, and thecooler may come in six
different colors.
Right, you do the shoot, youget the one color and then they
have tools to automaticallygenerate the five other colors
(24:02):
that can then be used asnecessary through different
channels.
Maybe a small example of whatyou're talking about, but is
that the kind of thing you cando in an automated way to get
things at scale?
Speaker 2 (24:16):
That too.
So you have starting assets.
You want to make some changesto it using AI.
Typically, people would go backand forth between Photoshop and
a product like Rocketium, or dothe same thing in Photoshop,
and now, thanks to AI and allthe advanced tools that we have
available, you can do the samewithin our product as well.
Same thing when it comes totranslations or rephrasing copy
(24:37):
and those kinds of things.
All of those AI tools are builtinto Rocketium.
Interesting, Interesting.
Speaker 1 (24:43):
Okay, yeah, I was playing.
I don't need to go off on thattangent, so I'll hold on that.
Okay, so you were hitting onanalytics.
So, even though I'm not surethat every marketer knows what
it means to be data-driven, Ithink everyone's claiming that
they either are or want to bedriven.
(25:05):
I think everyone's claimingthat they either are or want to
be.
So can you go a little furtherinto how you go from?
I think, in particular, I getthe idea of consolidating the
results from the differentplatforms, the ad platforms or
ad networks.
That sounds prettystraightforward, again,
oversimplifying, I think.
How do you get the attributesof the content that are
(25:29):
important?
I think, in particular, I wouldexpect video to be a challenge,
more so than images, because Ihave seen digitalized management
systems that do a really goodjob of auto tagging content when
it's loaded in.
But how do you?
How do you?
How does that work?
Speaker 2 (25:48):
yeah, so when it comes to imagery, like you said,
there are enough tools thatexist.
Video is a lot harder.
We have, to begin with, we havefocused on static imagery and
we have capabilities for video,but a lot more can and should be
done in video.
But the the way our value iscoming in two ways.
One is that, at scale, beingable to pull all of this
(26:09):
information from differentplatforms and running this data
ingestion pipeline, which is tosay, for every piece of creative
that comes, go and extract thestandard 80 attributes which we
have worked with customers.
Because we work with so manypeople.
We have figured out thestandard attributes to extract.
We call them lenses.
So there is a product lens, amodel lens, a messaging,
(26:30):
branding layout.
All of these are differentlenses.
Within that there are subcategories of different
attributes that we would haveright.
So, like I was giving examplesof what is the interaction
between the product and themodel, there are five standard
ways that we have figured outthat we would have within that
right.
So being able to extract all ofthose, each one of those,
(26:51):
requires a bespoke way offiguring this out.
Ai today is is good.
It's getting better, so maybein the future.
It's all done with one promptsaying that extract these 80
things for me.
But today we have to figure outcolor in a single in some way,
extract the text in a certainway.
They take that text andinterpret that in another way.
So there are multiple thingsthat we do, so our system
(27:13):
requires multiple things workingin tandem.
When it comes to video, it wouldwork in a similar way.
What we do is we extract thekey frames out of your video,
because if it's 24 or 30 framesper second and it's a 15 second
video, you are looking at 3,000frames.
And doing this level ofattribute extraction for each
(27:35):
one of those is crazy.
You won't really be able tomake head or tail out of that.
So instead, what we say is canwe extract the 5, 10, 20 key
frames within the video and thentag those instead, so that you
can analyze your video in a muchbetter way?
So that way it could be what isthe starting frame?
What is the first highlightwhich is in your video?
(27:57):
How do you end?
There is a peak end rule thatyou know about, so how is it
ending?
So there are those kinds ofthings that we would do, but
yeah, video is a lot harderWorking with.
That is a lot more complex.
We are doing a lot more work inthat, but the idea is that our
value comes in standardizingthese attributes Because, like
you said, a lot of people aredata driven.
They have strong views of howdata has to be used, but almost
(28:22):
no one has done creative levelanalytics before because there
weren't tools for this.
So our value is instandardizing some of these
things and then working withcustomers to discover more,
because, let's say, somebody isin the media and entertainment
space.
They want to know if thecreative is talking about a
venue or about a player, orabout statistics of a sport and
so on.
So that cannot be extractedautomatically with the current
(28:43):
system.
So you would add additional AItools to extract that.
That is what we do.
Speaker 1 (28:48):
Yeah, that makes sense.
And now I'm thinking we had ohgosh, what is his name?
John a guy who works for one ofthe major studio studios, and
he described that they're usingAI for doing some of that kind
of stuff too.
So, um, and getting data, whichis really fascinating, because
(29:09):
I think that's that's probably ahuge area.
So how?
So okay, so now you got I'llcall them standard dimensions of
attributes for the content, thecreative, and maybe a little
bit of content too, it soundslike, especially if copy, if you
keep copy with it.
So, and then you've got theperformance.
(29:30):
How is that used?
How do you?
How do you then think aboutlinking the performance to that?
I mean, is there any um, anylike ab testing that's going on,
that, how that's handled, soyou can see if you have slight
variations in creative?
You can kind of evaluate thator are you looking across more
(29:51):
of a broader portfolio?
It's like um, use the termmodel.
I assume that's the people inin the creative.
Um, yeah, the attributes of the.
You know, is it better with awoman or a man, or dark hair or
blonde hair?
I don't know what level you'regetting to, but I can imagine.
Are you looking for things likethat.
(30:12):
Like hey, when we target peoplefor this product, we should
find better performance withthis kind of model.
Speaker 2 (30:23):
That's exactly the sort of insight you're looking
for, because typically whatpeople would do is they would
start with a hypothesis and saythat because we are trying to
target young moms or young dads,we think that this sort of
creative would work.
Now, most marketers andcreative people are not wrong in
the choice that they've made,but a lot of times this comes
from tribal knowledge or gutfeel or just kind of looking at
(30:47):
the past couple of campaigns anddoing this.
But saying that every time inthe past when we have done this
X decision whether it is showinga model which is just cut off
till here or the whole thingnobody thinks at that level.
They would just kind of look atit and say this looks a little
off, it's kind of not balanced.
Can you make it bigger orsmaller?
But it's not backed by data andyou don't have to go crazy all
(31:10):
the time and every single thinghas to be defined by data saying
how many pixels below the rightedge is your logo.
You don't want to go crazy, butsomewhere, if you had a little
more data to tell you that, hey,in your awareness ads that
you're running, your logo needsto be big, because every time
your logo is small, people don'tknow who you are.
You're running an awarenesscampaign and so you may not know
(31:32):
the reasons.
Data cannot tell you thereasons why somebody reacted a
certain way to something, butyou can see patterns like this
that we notice that in yourawareness ads your logos are
small, and whenever your logosare small, outcomes are poor.
Now you could make a case andkind of retroactively put a
story behind it saying thatbecause it's an awareness ad,
(31:53):
they don't know about ourproduct and maybe that's why the
logo needs to be big.
In an awareness ad, if you puta button saying shop, now that
doesn't make any sense.
You are trying to make peopleaware about your brand, maybe
telling them that you know, youknow, visit stores to see the
product in action or some suchthing.
Right?
So these kinds of things youwould discover.
The goal is to surfaceinformation that you might not
(32:16):
have planned a priori, butyou've kind of subconsciously
made design choices.
Speaker 1 (32:21):
Right, that's interesting because I can
imagine, actually, my thoughtwhen you described that is, if I
were in their shoes, I reallydon't care why the one performed
better than the other, I justwant to know that it did.
And if I'm smart, even if itmeans that, because I've seen
this, the best example I'll useis when I've worked with
(32:45):
marketers on emails.
Right, there's sort of a schoolof thought, especially for
brands that are really, reallyfocused on their brand, creative
and visual, aesthetic kind ofstuff, kind of stuff.
When you send an email, theyreally want to make sure that
that's really incorporated intoemail, which leads to all kinds
(33:06):
of challenges with just buildingemail and everything else.
And my, my experience is, like,virtually every time if I do an
email, that's, I'll call it um,you know, high, high design
versus one that's basically text.
The text one almost alwaysperforms better, and so I think
if people are open to the ideaof listening to the data, it
(33:29):
doesn't mean you have to make itlike do that?
It's also an every time thing,but I think it's important to go
like, you know, if I reallycare about the results, I need
to check my ego a little bit,like if it's not the most thing.
It's the same thing with.
I do the same thing, by the way, with copywriters, because you
know they get caught up in.
Should I use an Oxford comma ornot?
Do I have a hanging?
(33:51):
You know an orphan word on aparagraph Like that, mike, it
doesn't matter, nobody elsecares.
You could have a misspellingRight and I've actually that is
the tension between creative andperformance.
Speaker 2 (34:01):
That's the two products that we have yeah, yeah
, so the idea is you want tostrike that balance because you
don't want to go too data-driven, too much about performance and
let's only care about this,because then you don't really
have a brand identity.
You are no different from a lotof, let's say, ai.
Slop is the winner.
You just generate some crap andput it out and it performs the
(34:21):
best.
Is that what your brand isgoing to stand for?
So at some point maybe you arestill okay to have subpar
results because you want to havea certain impression in the
market, you want to be known forcertain things.
So some of this, even though weare really pushing for
performance because at least onthe creative side, this is
completely absent from thediscourse.
That is what we are trying tobring in.
We absolutely see the value inmaking subpar decisions at times
(34:45):
because in the long run maybethat is for the best.
Speaker 1 (34:48):
And I think there's something to be said, for I've
got two examples of scenariosthat I know about where the
repetition of something, even ifit's not performing well, can
generate results, as long as youcontinue to be persistent on it
.
As a parent, I can tell youthat.
So the one I have as a parent,like putting foods in front of
(35:08):
your kids I think I've heardresearch to get them to try
something, to really becomfortable eating something new
, you have to do it, like try it10 times, which is hard when
you've got a hungry child, but Idon't know that we committed to
10 times every time.
But we have kids who havepretty broad tastes, right, and
we try to always put new stuffin front of them and set up
(35:30):
guidelines like we don't.
You don't have to finisheverything, but you have to at
least try everything.
It's you know, it's presented.
But the other one goes back to awork, one which is uh, I worked
with a agency that was helpingwith some database marketing
stuff, but they were one oftheir clients I think it was
Visa and one of the interestingthings that they shared about
(35:51):
that that they learned and thiswas back in direct marketing
days, right, sending mailers out, which still happens today but
they found that the bestperforming piece of direct mail
was the third one.
But they found that the bestperforming piece of direct mail
was the third one.
So what they did is that, like,what that changed for them is
it didn't really change whatthey did on the first and second
one per se.
It changed the timing.
So they moved through the firstand second ones as quickly as
(36:14):
possible to get to the third one, because it was this like,
whether it was conscious orsubconscious, right, the people
who are receiving it.
It started to sink in like, oh,this is a brand and maybe it's.
It's that that awareness piece,uh, again, like why it was
happening, the psychology behindit.
I don't think it reallymattered.
It was that the I like the ideaof, like you've got these sort
(36:35):
of the tension between thecreative and the performance
marketers.
Um, my concern would be, if Iwas in kind of a leadership role
, there was, like, what if Ihave performance marketers that
are, um, tend to lean moretowards the way you typically
think of creatives, right, andthey are less likely to try new
(36:58):
and different things becausethey only?
Or they're more likely to trynew and interesting things
because they only or they'remore likely to try new and
interesting things and not focuson the results.
It seems like they're in thewrong job, but yeah, and
sometimes that could happen.
Speaker 2 (37:11):
Sometimes the loudest voice in the room might not be
the most rational but yeahthat's where I was talking about
our customer success team andhow we work with customers,
because it's not just buildingsoftware and throwing it over
the wall.
It's about what's the goal thatyou have signed up for with
this company, because the goalof that company is not to use
(37:32):
Rocketium software and beproficient at it, it's for
whatever goal that they had, andthat's what we whether through
reviews or constant engagementwith our customers that is what
we focus on.
Speaker 1 (37:42):
Yeah, that makes sense.
Okay, one more question and wecan wrap up here.
So a lot of talk about AI andtools.
You've brought it up even someof the more I'll call them more
generic tools, llms, things likethat.
What advice would you give tothe marketing teams and agency
leaders that are looking to tryscaling their creative
production with those tools orwith Rocketium right?
(38:05):
What would you be like?
What's your best piece ofadvice for them who are just
starting on this or thinkingabout starting it?
Speaker 2 (38:12):
Yeah.
So what we typically tell ourpotential customers as we talk
to them introduce what Rocketiumdoes is.
It doesn't matter whatRocketium is, how good it is or
the shiny new toy that is there.
Let's start with your businessobjectives.
What are you challenged fromdoing today?
What is unlocked for you?
If you solve this, let that bebig enough to warrant a change
(38:35):
in your business, whether it ispaying money for software,
changing your process, doingsomething different.
But you need to start with thewhy changing your process doing
something different, but youneed to start with the why.
Again, not to quote any jargon,but really to say that you need
to have your business goal inmind.
Once you have that, you can'tjust say that let me bring in AI
and solve all of it in one go.
You need to break it down.
(38:56):
You need to understand whatyour process is.
You need to figure out whichpart of it is the bottleneck,
because bringing in softwarewill not solve the problem.
Let's say the analytics one thatwe spoke about.
If a certain company's culturethis is something we had heard
was that one of theirco-founders was on the creative
side, so no matter how much datathe team went to them with.
(39:16):
They used to say that this isthe creative choice.
We are not changing this.
So what's the point of bringingin software if the decision is
going to be vetoed by one of thefounders right?
So somewhere you need to know.
Yes, the end goal is somethingyou have in mind.
Yes, the software can solve it,but you also need to know what
your process is.
How do you work today?
What part of it are you tryingto solve?
So a little bit of the why, alittle bit of how you work today
(39:39):
, and then trying to bring in AIto solve the specific problems
that you have.
Speaker 1 (39:44):
It sounds like there's a cultural component to
this.
Speaker 2 (39:47):
To be ready to do something like this because,
yeah, okay, and that makes a tonof sense, right, culture that's
a very CEO answer to start withthe culture, but I really
believe that's the only way thisthing can be solved.
Speaker 1 (39:58):
No, I go back to this all the time.
Is that, um, well, if I thinkabout like kinds of cultures
that I like, is it's ones where,yeah, there's a lot of vigorous
debate about, say, an importantdecision.
That's the right set of people,um, and what's decisions made?
I mean, decision has to be made, um, but there needs to be a
(40:19):
culture that is open to thatdebate and discussion.
Decision needs to be made, butthere's also the recognition you
have to trust people to do theright thing, right, um, and
don't hold like, don't pointfingers when, like your, if you
had, if the decision was counterto what year, right Year, you
thought was the best one and itdoesn't go well, right, you
don't get to say I told you so,you so right, your job is to
(40:40):
make it better and try to helpsolve it.
And I think, if this is asimilar thing, right, typically,
the way this shows up, I think,is these controls over review
and approval and all that kindof stuff.
And if, if it's what youdescribed, maybe not the ceo or
founder, but like a seniorperson who is the one like, yeah
(41:01):
, go all through this work, youthink everything's approved.
And then there's this seniorperson who is like, yeah, go all
through this work, you thinkeverything's approved, and then
there's this one person whocould veto every fucking thing
you did Right, to be blunt andit's like nobody wants to.
Then nobody wants to get intothe effort of doing it and it's
really, really dishearteningwhen that happens.
So if you have that and youdon't recognize, like if you
recognize that that's the case,then bringing any of this other
stuff is not really going tosolve that problem.
(41:22):
So I wouldn't discount theculture answer is my point Not
perfect?
So anyway, hey, this has beengreat.
Any last bits of wisdom youwant to share, satish, before we
wrap up?
Speaker 2 (41:37):
No, I would say.
The only thing I would tellpeople is that this is a
glorious age that we are livingin.
We have magical technology fromthe future that has been
somehow pulled back in time andhanded over to us.
So do not despair.
Do not think that everything isgoing to change.
You're going to lose jobs.
Make the most of this.
When computers came, people hadsimilar fears.
(41:58):
When the Internet came, peoplehad fears.
Ai is probably going to be muchworse if you let it be, but I
think it's magical technology.
Let's use it to make our dailylives better and hopefully we
make it to the other side safeand sound.
Speaker 1 (42:14):
Yeah, sounds good.
Well, I appreciate it, Satish.
If folks want to follow up withyou and learn more about
CreativeOps and scaling it andall that, what's the best way
for them to do?
Speaker 2 (42:24):
that.
So I'm fairly active onLinkedIn, so feel free to reach
out to me.
Otherwise, our website does agreat job of laying out what we
believe in, what problems wesolve for our customers, so
please visit rocketiumcom.
Speaker 1 (42:35):
Sounds good, perfect, satyaj.
Thank you so much.
It's been a fun conversationand I think we covered a lot of
ground.
I think it'll be helpful forour audience.
So, thank you, appreciate it.
Thanks for having me, michael,as always, thank you to our
audience.
Thank you for supporting us andproviding your feedback.
As always, we always are opento ideas for topics and guests.
(42:57):
If you want to be a guest orhave a suggestion, please drop a
message to Naomi Liu, mikeRizzo or me and we'd be happy to
engage you with that and figureout how we can make that happen
.
Until next time, bye everybody.
Hello and welcome to another episode of OpsCast
brought to you byMarketingOpscom, powered by all
the MoPros out there.
I'm your host, michael Hartman,flying solo today.
Joining me today to discuss howto create content at scale is
Satyaj Surur.
I know you told me how to do it.
I think I still butchered it sowe'll get there.
Satyaj is founder and CEO ofRocketium.
(00:23):
Satyaj is passionate aboutstartups, technology and the
positive impact startups cancreate with technology.
He started rocket team in 2015after a decade of experience
spanning multiple roles in techproduct business across multiple
geographies india, us I thinkyou're in the us now at startups
like rocket team, taxi, forsure and at trillion-dollar
(00:46):
companies like Amazon andMicrosoft.
So, satish, thank you forjoining me today.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
Glad to be here, Michael.
Thank you for having me Allright.
Speaker 1 (00:55):
Well, what our audiences know is I try to make
sure I pronounce names correctlyand I think I failed, even
though we tried it for this.
So do what we can, you know.
All right, well, so let's getinto this right away.
So you founded Rectium in 2015.
And I'm curious I'm alwayscurious about, you know, the
(01:18):
founding of these companies andthings like what led to the
start of that.
Was there something, you know,a problem, an opportunity, a
challenge that you saw thatinspired you to start the
company?
Speaker 2 (01:30):
Yeah.
So I really wish there were areal problem and an insight that
I had that somebody somewherehas a problem that I want to
solve and that is why thiscompany needs to exist.
But, as it happened, this was apet project that I had in my
head for a decade, and when theprevious company where I was
working got acquired by acompetitor, I was flush with
(01:52):
cash.
I had no ideas about what to donext, because for the few years
before that, that company wasmy whole life, so I didn't
really have options.
So the only thing I knew wasthis pet project that I had in
my head.
I said, said let's breathe thelife into it.
And no real idea of who wantsit, except I want it to exist.
That is how rocket team started,but luckily, uh, in a couple of
(02:15):
years we realized some peoplehave a problem.
We tried to solve that.
Then we realized another set ofpeople have a problem.
But five years ago we got intothe space where we are today and
and thankfully, since then wehave not changed direction.
No more pivots.
But we are very excited aboutthe space in which we are
operating Large teams, marketing, creative, trying to solve
(02:36):
problems for them that are notsolved by the 3,000 marketing
software that exists not solvingit.
So that's why RocketEam exists.
Speaker 1 (02:44):
Well, I think it's more than 3,000, but yeah, so
it's a bit of a field of dreamsproject, right?
If you build it, they will come.
Speaker 2 (02:52):
That was the mistaken view with which I had started,
but yeah, I learned my lessonthe hard way.
Speaker 1 (02:58):
Well, but still, I mean, I think there's something
to be said about how innovationcan come about from something
like that.
All right, so you've calledwhat your company does creative
ops at scale, right?
So first up is, you know mostof our audience is in marketing
operations, so I'd love you tosort of define what you mean by
(03:19):
creative ops and how itintersects or relates to
marketing operations as well.
Speaker 2 (03:26):
Yeah.
So, as the folks who live andbreathe marketing ops know, it
is very hard to describe whatyou do to your mother, because
it's all the little things, it'sall the stuff in between, it's
the cement, it's the glue, it'sthe intangibles that you're
trying to solve for right.
Ultimate goal is very clearwhat you're trying to do, but
the way you do it, the toolsthat exist, it's sort of this
(03:48):
in-between worlds kind of stuff.
So that is really whatCreativeOps is.
The core problem that we aretrying to solve for our
customers is that, on aday-to-day basis, they are
working on getting the rightcontent out so that they can run
campaigns that reach people.
Eventually, the goal of anymarketing content, whether
(04:08):
through creative or anythingelse, is to persuade somebody to
your point of view, and in ourcase, it is images, videos, gifs
, that sort of content that hasto be made as we work with large
agencies and large brands.
They have diverse audiencesacross regions, people with
different preferences, manychannels in which they need to
(04:29):
reach these people, so the scaleof content really goes up.
The number of teams and peopleand voices that have to be
involved in this process goes up, and all of them are on
different tools, the tools thatthey have for the job.
They are best in class but notreally built for the ops of it,
which is, all of these teamshave to make content at scale,
(04:49):
give it to somebody else to dothe reviews, incorporate all the
feedback, check for platformguidelines, brands own best
practices, and then analyze andsay all of these thousands of
decisions that we made, which ofthose is working, which of
those is not working?
Now they are doing that in sixor seven, eight different tools,
passing stuff to each other,and that is what RocketEam is
(05:10):
trying to solve.
How do you make sure thatmarketing and creative teams are
able to put out the right kindof content across channels to
the audience?
Do it quickly, do it withouttoo much pain and do it without
too much spend.
Speaker 1 (05:30):
I mean, up until you talked about the performance
stuff, it sounded it seemed likethere's some overlap with what
I've.
I guess it was digital assetmanagement.
Is there a component of itthat's like digital asset
management, or is it somethingthat works hand in glove with a
digital asset managementplatform?
Speaker 2 (05:43):
It's more the latter, because the job of asset
management is to be the systemof record for all of your
content.
Once stuff has been approvedand ready to use, it has to be
there so that different peoplecan take it.
But how does it even get there?
Somebody has to decide that.
Here is my marketing brief forthis audience.
This kind of campaign, thiskind of objective, these are my
(06:05):
assets of photo shoots andmodels and products and all of
that.
This is the copy, these are thetranslations.
I need to put all of thattogether into these five or ten
or twenty different base designsand multiply and get hundreds
of pieces of content once I makethose.
They are sitting in an assetmanagement software but most
times it is directly deployedonto paid ad channels or your
(06:27):
CRM and things like that.
But asset management isprobably best suited for your
core assets of your products andmodels and fonts and those
kinds of things and there is acomponent of that within
Rocketium, but we integrate withthe top.
Speaker 1 (06:44):
DAMs as well, okay, so it's more like the creative
ops is more about the productionof the assets and then it's
also with the deployment of themas well.
Speaker 2 (06:53):
Not really the form Got it Okay.
Speaker 1 (06:57):
Yeah, that makes sense.
Okay, Thanks for that clarity.
So, yeah, having been inmarketing ops roles and things
related to that for a while, I,you know, I know I've worked
with, like creative directorsand creative teams, but I always
struggle with like we actuallyI can think of a place where I
worked where creative there wasa creative team and there was a
content team, right, and Ialways struggled with like why
(07:19):
didn't they what you know, whywere they not more integrated?
And it's not like they didn'twork together.
It's just two separate teams,different objectives, right,
maybe not aligned, but so I hearcreative ops, so I think
creative type people, but I havea hard time separating that
from content.
So who would be the primaryusers of, you know, or the
(07:44):
beneficiaries of, creative ops,is it you know?
Anyway, go from there.
I'm just curious, like whatparts of a marketing
organization or organization ingeneral would be beneficiaries?
Speaker 2 (07:56):
Yeah.
So when you look at the broaderops space, there are many ways
to slice and dice it.
Today, we have limitedourselves to focusing on two
teams One is the creative teamand one is a performance team,
and so much so that our productsare named RocketEum Creative
and RocketEum Performance.
So when it comes to creativeteams, these are the ones who
are predominantly spending theirtime on design tools like
(08:18):
Photoshop, illustrator, figma.
So what we are trying to do forthem is to say here is a
familiar experience like thosedesign software which Rocketium
has built from scratch.
You don't have to use that.
If you don't want to, you canimport your Photoshop, figma,
illustrator files and templatizeit, the goal of that being when
you take that design templateand the brief that comes from
(08:40):
your marketing team, you cancombine those two and multiply
the content across differentsizes, across the different
content formats, so that youdon't have to do that copy paste
work in your design software.
Now people have the capabilityto do complex animations and
clip masking and whatever othercrazy design things that they
would like to do in our software, but the value of that comes in
(09:03):
the multiplication of thedesign, and it's not only
multiplying it blindly.
There are certain things thatyou would like to check.
For example, certain words arenot allowed, alignments have to
be checked, contrast between thebackground and foreground has
to be looked at.
Is it readable?
There are guidelines, such asAmericans with Disability Act,
about how accessible thiscontent is on the internet.
(09:25):
So the creative team has to doa lot of these things manually,
which is why they would like todo more creative and content
coming together, but there's alot of such operational work
that they have to do on a dailybasis.
So what Rocketium does is itchecks for many of these things
on its own flags someautocorrects for others.
It also has a review processright here so that you don't
(09:46):
have to then download thesefiles, prepare it for somebody
else to review and then get thefeedback.
So the feedback happens righthere.
So everything that RocketiumCreative does is looking at the
different steps of repetitive,manual, automatable things that
designers do, so that they canfocus on the purely creative
things and then come in in bitsand pieces and just check
(10:07):
whether everything is okay.
When it comes to Rocketiumperformance, it is doing
something similar forperformance marketers,
specifically solving theproblems around insights and
analytics of the creativechoices they've made.
So this part of the productconnects to the paid ad
platforms or you could uploadyour own custom data.
If it's not a standard platform, we extract the platform
(10:27):
metrics.
We also extract what's in thecreative so we can figure out
what sort of models and productsand layouts, colors, copy.
We can figure out more detailedinformation about it, saying
what sort of interaction isbetween the model and the
product.
For example, is the model nextto the product holding it using
it, and that sort of interactionis between the model and the
product.
For example, is the model nextto the product holding it using
it.
And and that sort ofinformation we extract so that
(10:50):
when a performance marketer isplanning for their next campaign
or they want to figure outwhere am I really leaking my
budget?
What do I want to improve, theycan look at that and say that
okay, great, I never had thisinsight before, that every time
a product is outside thepackaging versus inside, one
works a lot better than theother.
So that's what we do for theperformance marketer.
(11:11):
So that's really in the two wayswe solve this problem.
Speaker 1 (11:14):
So it's creative teams and performance marketing
or I mean performance marketing,I think is a relatively new
term call it demand gen ordemand creation type teams.
Is that the primary focus?
Speaker 2 (11:28):
Yeah, demand gen is the more B2B world which is what
you and I live in within themore retail brands or agencies
or people who are living andbreathing Facebook and meta and
Google ad platforms.
It's performance marketing,paid marketing.
Speaker 1 (11:46):
Okay, got it.
Okay, so more.
Okay, that's interestingbecause I hadn't tied
performance marketing as a thing, that's with B2C type
organization Okay.
So I have a really tacticalquestion about that.
So one of the struggles I thinkI know I've seen creative teams
run into is how to handle, howto produce creative that renders
(12:09):
well in both dark mode andlight mode.
So are you able to help withthat as well?
Speaker 2 (12:16):
So marketers have even more challenges because if
it goes onto Facebook or Googlesomewhere, you have a little
more controlled walled garden ofwhat the content appears next
to.
But as soon as it goes on to,let's say, a Google Display
Network or a Facebook audiencenetwork I mean, these are
technical words, not everybodyneeds to know, but the idea is
that when it goes on to a thirdparty website, you have no idea
(12:40):
what it's next to.
It could be a jarring, brightcolored website and yours is a
more subtle design.
So some of those challengesexist.
You cannot always solve for it,but really what you want to
stay true to is, a your brand,but b more importantly, who your
audience is.
If you know what your audiencecares about, sometimes they can
(13:00):
be forgiving, sometimes they'reon light mode, sometimes on dark
mode you cannot really controlfor that, but knowing what your
audience cares about, what sortof message resonates with them,
that is probably what's moreimportant, because you cannot
always control the thousands ofwebsites on which your content
goes, what it is in line withstuff around it.
Maybe there's an incendiarystory.
You can't always control it,but really you want the message
(13:23):
to connect with people.
Speaker 1 (13:29):
That's really what you want to focus on.
Yeah, I get, I get all that.
I guess I'm thinking more likethey're really like um, I've
worked with marketing.
I've worked with one marketingteam in particular.
That was very um, the like, thequality and and, uh uh, the the
match to brand standards ofcolors and things like that was
really really a priority forthem.
(13:50):
And one of the things we've runinto is, you know, when you say
, send an email to somebody andthey look it on their phone, if
their phone, if a person isusing dark mode, right, the
colors actually get out of whackand it's strange like that.
So that's really what I'mtalking about Specifically.
I get, I get like you can'tcontrol your like what's around
(14:11):
your content when you use an adnetwork or something like that.
But in terms of like how images, can you help with making
images that will work well bothin light mode and dark mode, if
someone, if you can't, get'tbecause you can't really control
for that, yeah it's.
Speaker 2 (14:27):
it's not very easy to do, but the the way we try to
solve for some of these thingsis to say what are your brand's
guidelines?
What are the platform's bestpractices?
Can we automatically check forthat?
Can we suggest changes that youshould be making?
We don't have anythingspecifically for light mode
versus dark mode, but differentbrands have their quirks and
their needs.
So somebody will say certainwords are just not allowed, or
(14:49):
our logo has to be larger thanevery other logo.
Sometimes people are manuallylooking for that and eyeballing
you could make a mistake.
So having software do thosechecks and flag those for you is
invaluable for companies thatoperate at a meaningful scale.
Speaker 1 (15:03):
Okay, yeah, and that makes sense, right, and I, like
I remember, cause I was actuallythat particular one there were
five brands I was supportingwith one business and they all
had their own.
You know brand guidelines forcolor, you know color palette
and things like that, and somewere fine when you go to dark
mode and some weren't rightDepending on the mix and that
(15:24):
was.
It was really hard to handlethat, okay, so you, I think
we've touched on this a littlebit, but maybe you go a little
deeper, is it?
Well, two parts of this, right?
So first, it sounds like youknow, when you talk about doing
things to scale, it sounds likethere's a lot of automation and
things like that, where you cando some standard kinds of checks
(15:53):
, even though it's probablyoversimplifying it, but it feels
like this is probably mostuseful for larger,
enterprise-type brands.
At the same time, I can imaginegrowing smaller organizations
might be interested in somethinglike this.
Like what?
Like what are the signals that,in terms of their business and
maybe a benchmark site, I don'tknow that would say, hey, like
(16:15):
this is something we need to bethinking about.
You know, cause we're spendinga certain amount of time
manually reviewing stuff and allthat?
What would that be like?
So, first off, am I right in myassumption that the the types
of organizations that mostbenefit from it?
And then, second, like what forthose that are not?
Because they might be smaller,like as they grow?
What's the, what's the signal?
Speaker 2 (16:36):
Yeah, yeah, so you're right, the company.
This product was built forlarge companies, people who are
operating at a massive scale.
In fact, it started with one ofthe largest companies in the
world.
But that is not the expectationthat unless you're Fortune 5,
you cannot use this software.
It definitely works forcompanies that are a little bit
smaller in scale as well, butreally, if you have two or three
(17:00):
people in your team, you aremaking maybe 50 100 pieces of
content a month.
You do not need something likethis because you could spend
half a day and do the copy pastework in a design software.
Do the reviews manually.
Um, if your ad spends, forexample, are less than maybe
three, five, ten million, thenmaybe the stakes are not.
(17:20):
Of course, for each company thestakes are equally high.
Course, for each company thestakes are equally high.
But, um, the amount of thedollars that you would lose
versus bringing in a softwarelike this?
We have a customer success teamthat we deploy with you.
We do quarterly businessreviews.
There's a lot of investmentfrom our side as well.
This is probably overkill foryou.
So, typically, teams that havemore than 10 team members
involved in this process betweendesigners, creative directors,
(17:43):
project managers, performancemarketers, 10 or more team
members, anywhere from 2,000plus pieces of content a month
and $5 to $10 million of paid adspend at a minimum.
That is where they really startseeing value in something like
this.
Speaker 1 (17:58):
I see, okay, so that's a good, good, good uh
thing.
So you know, I can imagineprobably not like startup type
companies, but call them teenagecompanies, right, yeah, mid,
mid-sized that are growing wouldcould easily get to that and
the pitch, if you hear it.
Speaker 2 (18:17):
What you are trying to do?
Uh, trying to bring intechnology, trying to make
versions of content for eachaudience.
That all sounds like motherhoodand apple pie.
Who is going to dispute that?
Of course I want it, even ifI'm a one member team.
I want it Right, but theoutcomes are great.
The ways to get to that may notbe a software like this.
You should anyway do it.
You should try and automate asmuch as you can.
(18:39):
There are great AI tools todayand you don't even need to look
for specialized tools.
The LLMs are doing a lot ofthis today, but as you get a lot
more scale, there are more egosin the room.
There are more voices that needto be heard.
That's when you need morespecialized software.
Speaker 1 (18:55):
Yeah, yeah, that makes sense.
Yeah, I think what you gethinted at is right, there's
trade-offs along all along theway, right?
So, and it's a good point,right, this is something that
probably everyone, if they'renot thinking about it, who's in
a creative world or, yeah,creative world is is should be
thinking about how to handle it.
So that's actually brings me toanother question.
So we talked about enterprisecompanies, large brands, high
(19:17):
volume, like can you maybe takethat and give us an example,
like you know, if you couldshare a real example of maybe
one of your clients, like whatdoes this look like on a
day-to-day basis?
You know what's a kind of likean example project or problem?
They're doing that, and thenhow would that happen with the
(19:39):
tool?
Speaker 2 (19:41):
Yeah.
So let me give you a couple ofexamples of two different worlds
.
One is the agency world and oneis a brand world.
In the brand world, what hadhappened was this company, which
I'll not name, preparing to goIPO, trying to cut down costs.
They had let go recently 40% oftheir team, which is
unfortunate, and now that theyhad let go of that team, they
(20:01):
said we still want to do thesame amount of work and that's
why we want to bring inautomation.
The tools that they were usingwere not enough and that's how
they discovered Rocket EM and wecame in.
What they were able to do withthat is the designs that they
were making on the other toolsthat they had, including
Photoshop and others.
They were able to bring that in, create a repository of
standardized designs, and thenthe performance marketing team,
(20:24):
which was on a very tighttreadmill of 2000 pieces of
content.
Every two weeks they used togive them a very structured
Excel with all the copy versionsfor every country and all the
different products for which ithad to be done, and so on.
That spreadsheet could be fedinto Rocketium and then you
start with the base design.
It automatically makes all thedifferent products for which it
(20:46):
had to be done, and so on.
That spreadsheet could be fedinto Rocketium and then you
start with the base design.
It automatically makes all thedifferent sizes for each
platform and then thespreadsheet comes into it,
almost like doing mail merge.
You would get the 2000 piecesof content for every two weeks
that they would have.
The first set of review happensright here, and before you can
even assign it to theperformance marketer to review,
you have already discovered manythings that have to be fixed.
(21:07):
You go and fix those things.
They review it.
Then one click, all of thefiles get renamed according to
your taxonomy, because this is avery common thing, especially
in the b2c world.
Your files have to be namedaccording to a very complex
format, because that is how youare naming your ads in the ad
platform.
So the automatic file naminghappens.
Every ad platform has strictguidelines for how large the
(21:32):
creative file should be.
So Rocketium automaticallyresizes all of these files.
So each of these steps thatwould have taken them half a day
here, quarter day there, twodays somewhere else, is
completely crashed.
And so now a team that is 40%smaller is doing the same amount
of work in a fraction of thetime, and now they can do more
value-adding work, like comingup with new creative ideas,
(21:53):
looking at analytics, which alsoRocketium has for this team to
say what sort of creativechoices are working.
For the agency that I talkedabout, there was a clear need,
which was to say that my clientsare asking for more cost
efficiency.
I have a 40-member team that isworking on this client and they
are saying how can you cut thisdown?
If I have to bring in Rocketium, I would like to free up at
(22:15):
least 10 people, and now theywere able to figure out how to
do that in a fraction of that,and the process the rest of the
process was the same.
So whether you have an in-houseteam that is doing it or an
outsource team doing iteverywhere, the problems are the
same that there's a lot of copypaste work, a lot of same thing
that I keep doing, and again,that can be automated.
So this was on the creativeside.
Similar thing, like I said,exists on the analytics side,
(22:40):
which is both of them.
Don't use it.
Another team does it, wherethey go to every platform,
download the data, clean it up,put it in a single Excel and
then they go and manually lookat every creative tag.
It then do analysis.
A Rocketium automates thatprocess.
A single dashboard where yousee cross-platform data.
It extracts the creativeinformation so you can see in
(23:02):
charts saying product inside thepackaging, outside the
packaging, two models, zeromodels, all of those kinds of
charts, and it gives youdirectionally what sort of
creative choices you should bemaking, how should you be
updating your campaigns.
You get all of that information.
So the before and after is verystark in all of these cases.
Speaker 1 (23:20):
Yeah, so I want to come back to the metrics, but so
what you described reminds me.
We had, not too long ago, acouple of guests on who were in
video production and we weretalking about how that has
evolved quite a bit over thelast several years, and they
mentioned a particular exampleof a big change for them has
(23:41):
been there are now tools thatsay I was thinking like a retail
type or consumer product good,where I think the example they
used was a cooler right, and thecooler may come in six
different colors.
Right, you do the shoot, youget the one color and then they
have tools to automaticallygenerate the five other colors
(24:02):
that can then be used asnecessary through different
channels.
Maybe a small example of whatyou're talking about, but is
that the kind of thing you cando in an automated way to get
things at scale?
Speaker 2 (24:16):
That too.
So you have starting assets.
You want to make some changesto it using AI.
Typically, people would go backand forth between Photoshop and
a product like Rocketium, or dothe same thing in Photoshop,
and now, thanks to AI and allthe advanced tools that we have
available, you can do the samewithin our product as well.
Same thing when it comes totranslations or rephrasing copy
(24:37):
and those kinds of things.
All of those AI tools are builtinto Rocketium.
Interesting, Interesting.
Speaker 1 (24:43):
Okay, yeah, I was playing.
I don't need to go off on thattangent, so I'll hold on that.
Okay, so you were hitting onanalytics.
So, even though I'm not surethat every marketer knows what
it means to be data-driven, Ithink everyone's claiming that
they either are or want to bedriven.
(25:05):
I think everyone's claimingthat they either are or want to
be.
So can you go a little furtherinto how you go from?
I think, in particular, I getthe idea of consolidating the
results from the differentplatforms, the ad platforms or
ad networks.
That sounds prettystraightforward, again,
oversimplifying, I think.
How do you get the attributesof the content that are
(25:29):
important?
I think, in particular, I wouldexpect video to be a challenge,
more so than images, because Ihave seen digitalized management
systems that do a really goodjob of auto tagging content when
it's loaded in.
But how do you?
How do you?
How does that work?
Speaker 2 (25:48):
yeah, so when it comes to imagery, like you said,
there are enough tools thatexist.
Video is a lot harder.
We have, to begin with, we havefocused on static imagery and
we have capabilities for video,but a lot more can and should be
done in video.
But the the way our value iscoming in two ways.
One is that, at scale, beingable to pull all of this
(26:09):
information from differentplatforms and running this data
ingestion pipeline, which is tosay, for every piece of creative
that comes, go and extract thestandard 80 attributes which we
have worked with customers.
Because we work with so manypeople.
We have figured out thestandard attributes to extract.
We call them lenses.
So there is a product lens, amodel lens, a messaging,
(26:30):
branding layout.
All of these are differentlenses.
Within that there are subcategories of different
attributes that we would haveright.
So, like I was giving examplesof what is the interaction
between the product and themodel, there are five standard
ways that we have figured outthat we would have within that
right.
So being able to extract all ofthose, each one of those,
(26:51):
requires a bespoke way offiguring this out.
Ai today is is good.
It's getting better, so maybein the future.
It's all done with one promptsaying that extract these 80
things for me.
But today we have to figure outcolor in a single in some way,
extract the text in a certainway.
They take that text andinterpret that in another way.
So there are multiple thingsthat we do, so our system
(27:13):
requires multiple things workingin tandem.
When it comes to video, it wouldwork in a similar way.
What we do is we extract thekey frames out of your video,
because if it's 24 or 30 framesper second and it's a 15 second
video, you are looking at 3,000frames.
And doing this level ofattribute extraction for each
(27:35):
one of those is crazy.
You won't really be able tomake head or tail out of that.
So instead, what we say is canwe extract the 5, 10, 20 key
frames within the video and thentag those instead, so that you
can analyze your video in a muchbetter way?
So that way it could be what isthe starting frame?
What is the first highlightwhich is in your video?
(27:57):
How do you end?
There is a peak end rule thatyou know about, so how is it
ending?
So there are those kinds ofthings that we would do, but
yeah, video is a lot harderWorking with.
That is a lot more complex.
We are doing a lot more work inthat, but the idea is that our
value comes in standardizingthese attributes Because, like
you said, a lot of people aredata driven.
They have strong views of howdata has to be used, but almost
(28:22):
no one has done creative levelanalytics before because there
weren't tools for this.
So our value is instandardizing some of these
things and then working withcustomers to discover more,
because, let's say, somebody isin the media and entertainment
space.
They want to know if thecreative is talking about a
venue or about a player, orabout statistics of a sport and
so on.
So that cannot be extractedautomatically with the current
(28:43):
system.
So you would add additional AItools to extract that.
That is what we do.
Speaker 1 (28:48):
Yeah, that makes sense.
And now I'm thinking we had ohgosh, what is his name?
John a guy who works for one ofthe major studio studios, and
he described that they're usingAI for doing some of that kind
of stuff too.
So, um, and getting data, whichis really fascinating, because
(29:09):
I think that's that's probably ahuge area.
So how?
So okay, so now you got I'llcall them standard dimensions of
attributes for the content, thecreative, and maybe a little
bit of content too, it soundslike, especially if copy, if you
keep copy with it.
So, and then you've got theperformance.
(29:30):
How is that used?
How do you?
How do you then think aboutlinking the performance to that?
I mean, is there any um, anylike ab testing that's going on,
that, how that's handled, soyou can see if you have slight
variations in creative?
You can kind of evaluate thator are you looking across more
(29:51):
of a broader portfolio?
It's like um, use the termmodel.
I assume that's the people inin the creative.
Um, yeah, the attributes of the.
You know, is it better with awoman or a man, or dark hair or
blonde hair?
I don't know what level you'regetting to, but I can imagine.
Are you looking for things likethat.
(30:12):
Like hey, when we target peoplefor this product, we should
find better performance withthis kind of model.
Speaker 2 (30:23):
That's exactly the sort of insight you're looking
for, because typically whatpeople would do is they would
start with a hypothesis and saythat because we are trying to
target young moms or young dads,we think that this sort of
creative would work.
Now, most marketers andcreative people are not wrong in
the choice that they've made,but a lot of times this comes
from tribal knowledge or gutfeel or just kind of looking at
(30:47):
the past couple of campaigns anddoing this.
But saying that every time inthe past when we have done this
X decision whether it is showinga model which is just cut off
till here or the whole thingnobody thinks at that level.
They would just kind of look atit and say this looks a little
off, it's kind of not balanced.
Can you make it bigger orsmaller?
But it's not backed by data andyou don't have to go crazy all
(31:10):
the time and every single thinghas to be defined by data saying
how many pixels below the rightedge is your logo.
You don't want to go crazy, butsomewhere, if you had a little
more data to tell you that, hey,in your awareness ads that
you're running, your logo needsto be big, because every time
your logo is small, people don'tknow who you are.
You're running an awarenesscampaign and so you may not know
(31:32):
the reasons.
Data cannot tell you thereasons why somebody reacted a
certain way to something, butyou can see patterns like this
that we notice that in yourawareness ads your logos are
small, and whenever your logosare small, outcomes are poor.
Now you could make a case andkind of retroactively put a
story behind it saying thatbecause it's an awareness ad,
(31:53):
they don't know about ourproduct and maybe that's why the
logo needs to be big.
In an awareness ad, if you puta button saying shop, now that
doesn't make any sense.
You are trying to make peopleaware about your brand, maybe
telling them that you know, youknow, visit stores to see the
product in action or some suchthing.
Right?
So these kinds of things youwould discover.
The goal is to surfaceinformation that you might not
(32:16):
have planned a priori, butyou've kind of subconsciously
made design choices.
Speaker 1 (32:21):
Right, that's interesting because I can
imagine, actually, my thoughtwhen you described that is, if I
were in their shoes, I reallydon't care why the one performed
better than the other, I justwant to know that it did.
And if I'm smart, even if itmeans that, because I've seen
this, the best example I'll useis when I've worked with
(32:45):
marketers on emails.
Right, there's sort of a schoolof thought, especially for
brands that are really, reallyfocused on their brand, creative
and visual, aesthetic kind ofstuff, kind of stuff.
When you send an email, theyreally want to make sure that
that's really incorporated intoemail, which leads to all kinds
(33:06):
of challenges with just buildingemail and everything else.
And my, my experience is, like,virtually every time if I do an
email, that's, I'll call it um,you know, high, high design
versus one that's basically text.
The text one almost alwaysperforms better, and so I think
if people are open to the ideaof listening to the data, it
(33:29):
doesn't mean you have to make itlike do that?
It's also an every time thing,but I think it's important to go
like, you know, if I reallycare about the results, I need
to check my ego a little bit,like if it's not the most thing.
It's the same thing with.
I do the same thing, by the way, with copywriters, because you
know they get caught up in.
Should I use an Oxford comma ornot?
Do I have a hanging?
(33:51):
You know an orphan word on aparagraph Like that, mike, it
doesn't matter, nobody elsecares.
You could have a misspellingRight and I've actually that is
the tension between creative andperformance.
Speaker 2 (34:01):
That's the two products that we have yeah, yeah
, so the idea is you want tostrike that balance because you
don't want to go too data-driven, too much about performance and
let's only care about this,because then you don't really
have a brand identity.
You are no different from a lotof, let's say, ai.
Slop is the winner.
You just generate some crap andput it out and it performs the
(34:21):
best.
Is that what your brand isgoing to stand for?
So at some point maybe you arestill okay to have subpar
results because you want to havea certain impression in the
market, you want to be known forcertain things.
So some of this, even though weare really pushing for
performance because at least onthe creative side, this is
completely absent from thediscourse.
That is what we are trying tobring in.
We absolutely see the value inmaking subpar decisions at times
(34:45):
because in the long run maybethat is for the best.
Speaker 1 (34:48):
And I think there's something to be said, for I've
got two examples of scenariosthat I know about where the
repetition of something, even ifit's not performing well, can
generate results, as long as youcontinue to be persistent on it
.
As a parent, I can tell youthat.
So the one I have as a parent,like putting foods in front of
(35:08):
your kids I think I've heardresearch to get them to try
something, to really becomfortable eating something new
, you have to do it, like try it10 times, which is hard when
you've got a hungry child, but Idon't know that we committed to
10 times every time.
But we have kids who havepretty broad tastes, right, and
we try to always put new stuffin front of them and set up
(35:30):
guidelines like we don't.
You don't have to finisheverything, but you have to at
least try everything.
It's you know, it's presented.
But the other one goes back to awork, one which is uh, I worked
with a agency that was helpingwith some database marketing
stuff, but they were one oftheir clients I think it was
Visa and one of the interestingthings that they shared about
(35:51):
that that they learned and thiswas back in direct marketing
days, right, sending mailers out, which still happens today but
they found that the bestperforming piece of direct mail
was the third one.
But they found that the bestperforming piece of direct mail
was the third one.
So what they did is that, like,what that changed for them is
it didn't really change whatthey did on the first and second
one per se.
It changed the timing.
So they moved through the firstand second ones as quickly as
(36:14):
possible to get to the third one, because it was this like,
whether it was conscious orsubconscious, right, the people
who are receiving it.
It started to sink in like, oh,this is a brand and maybe it's.
It's that that awareness piece,uh, again, like why it was
happening, the psychology behindit.
I don't think it reallymattered.
It was that the I like the ideaof, like you've got these sort
(36:35):
of the tension between thecreative and the performance
marketers.
Um, my concern would be, if Iwas in kind of a leadership role
, there was, like, what if Ihave performance marketers that
are, um, tend to lean moretowards the way you typically
think of creatives, right, andthey are less likely to try new
(36:58):
and different things becausethey only?
Or they're more likely to trynew and interesting things
because they only or they'remore likely to try new and
interesting things and not focuson the results.
It seems like they're in thewrong job, but yeah, and
sometimes that could happen.
Speaker 2 (37:11):
Sometimes the loudest voice in the room might not be
the most rational but yeahthat's where I was talking about
our customer success team andhow we work with customers,
because it's not just buildingsoftware and throwing it over
the wall.
It's about what's the goal thatyou have signed up for with
this company, because the goalof that company is not to use
(37:32):
Rocketium software and beproficient at it, it's for
whatever goal that they had, andthat's what we whether through
reviews or constant engagementwith our customers that is what
we focus on.
Speaker 1 (37:42):
Yeah, that makes sense.
Okay, one more question and wecan wrap up here.
So a lot of talk about AI andtools.
You've brought it up even someof the more I'll call them more
generic tools, llms, things likethat.
What advice would you give tothe marketing teams and agency
leaders that are looking to tryscaling their creative
production with those tools orwith Rocketium right?
(38:05):
What would you be like?
What's your best piece ofadvice for them who are just
starting on this or thinkingabout starting it?
Speaker 2 (38:12):
Yeah.
So what we typically tell ourpotential customers as we talk
to them introduce what Rocketiumdoes is.
It doesn't matter whatRocketium is, how good it is or
the shiny new toy that is there.
Let's start with your businessobjectives.
What are you challenged fromdoing today?
What is unlocked for you?
If you solve this, let that bebig enough to warrant a change
(38:35):
in your business, whether it ispaying money for software,
changing your process, doingsomething different.
But you need to start with thewhy changing your process doing
something different, but youneed to start with the why.
Again, not to quote any jargon,but really to say that you need
to have your business goal inmind.
Once you have that, you can'tjust say that let me bring in AI
and solve all of it in one go.
You need to break it down.
(38:56):
You need to understand whatyour process is.
You need to figure out whichpart of it is the bottleneck,
because bringing in softwarewill not solve the problem.
Let's say the analytics one thatwe spoke about.
If a certain company's culturethis is something we had heard
was that one of theirco-founders was on the creative
side, so no matter how much datathe team went to them with.
(39:16):
They used to say that this isthe creative choice.
We are not changing this.
So what's the point of bringingin software if the decision is
going to be vetoed by one of thefounders right?
So somewhere you need to know.
Yes, the end goal is somethingyou have in mind.
Yes, the software can solve it,but you also need to know what
your process is.
How do you work today?
What part of it are you tryingto solve?
So a little bit of the why, alittle bit of how you work today
(39:39):
, and then trying to bring in AIto solve the specific problems
that you have.
Speaker 1 (39:44):
It sounds like there's a cultural component to
this.
Speaker 2 (39:47):
To be ready to do something like this because,
yeah, okay, and that makes a tonof sense, right, culture that's
a very CEO answer to start withthe culture, but I really
believe that's the only way thisthing can be solved.
Speaker 1 (39:58):
No, I go back to this all the time.
Is that, um, well, if I thinkabout like kinds of cultures
that I like, is it's ones where,yeah, there's a lot of vigorous
debate about, say, an importantdecision.
That's the right set of people,um, and what's decisions made?
I mean, decision has to be made, um, but there needs to be a
(40:19):
culture that is open to thatdebate and discussion.
Decision needs to be made, butthere's also the recognition you
have to trust people to do theright thing, right, um, and
don't hold like, don't pointfingers when, like your, if you
had, if the decision was counterto what year, right Year, you
thought was the best one and itdoesn't go well, right, you
don't get to say I told you so,you so right, your job is to
(40:40):
make it better and try to helpsolve it.
And I think, if this is asimilar thing, right, typically,
the way this shows up, I think,is these controls over review
and approval and all that kindof stuff.
And if, if it's what youdescribed, maybe not the ceo or
founder, but like a seniorperson who is the one like, yeah
(41:01):
, go all through this work, youthink everything's approved.
And then there's this seniorperson who is like, yeah, go all
through this work, you thinkeverything's approved, and then
there's this one person whocould veto every fucking thing
you did Right, to be blunt andit's like nobody wants to.
Then nobody wants to get intothe effort of doing it and it's
really, really dishearteningwhen that happens.
So if you have that and youdon't recognize, like if you
recognize that that's the case,then bringing any of this other
stuff is not really going tosolve that problem.
(41:22):
So I wouldn't discount theculture answer is my point Not
perfect?
So anyway, hey, this has beengreat.
Any last bits of wisdom youwant to share, satish, before we
wrap up?
Speaker 2 (41:37):
No, I would say.
The only thing I would tellpeople is that this is a
glorious age that we are livingin.
We have magical technology fromthe future that has been
somehow pulled back in time andhanded over to us.
So do not despair.
Do not think that everything isgoing to change.
You're going to lose jobs.
Make the most of this.
When computers came, people hadsimilar fears.
(41:58):
When the Internet came, peoplehad fears.
Ai is probably going to be muchworse if you let it be, but I
think it's magical technology.
Let's use it to make our dailylives better and hopefully we
make it to the other side safeand sound.
Speaker 1 (42:14):
Yeah, sounds good.
Well, I appreciate it, Satish.
If folks want to follow up withyou and learn more about
CreativeOps and scaling it andall that, what's the best way
for them to do?
Speaker 2 (42:24):
that.
So I'm fairly active onLinkedIn, so feel free to reach
out to me.
Otherwise, our website does agreat job of laying out what we
believe in, what problems wesolve for our customers, so
please visit rocketiumcom.
Speaker 1 (42:35):
Sounds good, perfect, satyaj.
Thank you so much.
It's been a fun conversationand I think we covered a lot of
ground.
I think it'll be helpful forour audience.
So, thank you, appreciate it.
Thanks for having me, michael,as always, thank you to our
audience.
Thank you for supporting us andproviding your feedback.
As always, we always are opento ideas for topics and guests.
(42:57):
If you want to be a guest orhave a suggestion, please drop a
message to Naomi Liu, mikeRizzo or me and we'd be happy to
engage you with that and figureout how we can make that happen
.
Until next time, bye everybody.
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