February 24, 2023 • 30 mins
Abby loves story. So much so that she now uses stories across all of Pet Angel Adoptions' social media platforms. The goals: find the perfect forever home for the cats in their no-kill shelter. And the innovation doesn't stop there. Because another goal is to make sure that the cats don't come back to the rescue.
Pet Angel Adoption is a no-kill cat rescue located in Frankenmuth, Michigan.
Connect with Pet Angel Adoption: https://petangeladoption.com/
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Abby Engel (00:00):
I don't know if I'm fearless because I do think the hate is pretty
hard sometimes and I do privately takeit pretty hard, but, I still show up
because it's my job because no oneelse is gonna do it for the cats.
Cliff Duvernois (00:12):
Hello everyone and welcome back to another episode of
Ordinary People, extraordinary Things.
I'm your host, cliff Dubin, wa.
You know, when it comes to the world ofnonprofits, I love to find those out there
who are doing things differently, and thatis certainly the case with today's guest.
She's taken this small local cat rescue.
And connected it with a large base ofraving fans from all across the globe.
(00:38):
Please welcome to the show, the animatedAbby Engel from Pet Angel Adoption.
out of Frankenmuth, Michigan.
Abby, how are.
you
You
Abby Engel (00:45):
I'm good cliff.
How are you?
Cliff Duvernois (00:47):
I'm doing awesome.
Thank you for asking.
And I know that Abby Engel isn'tgonna be your name for long, cuz
you just got recently engaged.
Abby Engel (00:54):
did.
By the end of this year,I'll be Abby Krieger.
Thank you.
I'm so excited.
Cliff Duvernois (00:58):
there we go.
So we're talking todayabout Pet Angel Adoption.
Why don't you walk us throughwhat Pet Angel adoption is?
Abby Engel (01:05):
So for 20 years my parents have been running a cat
rescue and they accidentallystarted it, um, when I was eight.
My.
Parents had some feral cats inour backyard and they had given
birth and abandoned the kittens.
And my mom had bottle fed kittens before,so she was like, let's just do this.
We can take 'em in bottle, feed 'em,find 'em homes, we'll be done with it.
So of course we took 'em to the local vetto get them vetted because that's what you
(01:27):
do when you bottle feed kittens everybody.
And.
They were like, why doyou have so many kittens?
And my mom explained the wholesituation and then the next thing
she knows, they were like, well,hey, this person found a cat.
Will you take it?
And this person found acat, will you take it?
And before we knew it, we had cagesof cats in my childhood garage
and my parents said, we can'tkeep cats in our garage like this.
So they had a decision to make, whichwas in one hand, just find all the cats.
(01:50):
We currently had homes and.
Call it good and get rid of thecages and be done, or file for a
non-profit PA paperwork and finda location, and they went with the
ladder and petting Angel was born.
We
Cliff Duvernois (02:01):
so why did they, so let me ask you this question.
Why go that route?
Why not just get rid of the catsand say we're out of this business
versus going into a nonprofit?
Cuz having a nonprofit is tough.
Abby Engel (02:11):
I think that's a question you'd have to ask my mom, but if I
was to answer for her, I would sayit's because they're good people.
There you go.
I don't think my parents could.
look
at all of these homeless cats andkittens and be like, forget you.
So I truly think that I, I always sayto people that I was born to my parents
because this is what I was supposed to do.
I mean, God, whatever higher powercould have put me with any people.
(02:33):
And he put me with the two peoplewho started an animal rescue and
then he like, Poured into me all thiscompassion and empathy and I'm just
like, this is where I'm supposed to be.
And I think that that also playsa part into like who my mom is.
I mean, cliff didn't mention it, butCliff also knows my parents very well.
Cliff was my dad's brother'sbest friend when they were kids.
(02:53):
So Cliff knows my dad.
He knew my parents' probablybefore I was even around.
And so he knows who they are andI don't think my parents could
just not, they love animals.
My mom specifically,
As a child, my brother Alex, he'sthree years younger than I, instead
of going home after school, wewent to the cat rescue because my
mom was taking care of it alone.
(03:13):
That was her full-time job.
She didn't, she was a stay-at-home mom.
Al my, my dad worked so.
Stay-at-home.
Mom became cat rescueand stay-at-home mom.
So when she would pick us upfrom school, we went, we went
to the rescue instead of home.
So the cat rescue became our playground.
I remember as a kid we would keepour snow gear at the rescue, like
our snow pants and our jackets,and our gloves, and our hats.
(03:34):
And after school, Alex and I wouldput it all on and the landlord
outside the rescue would pushall the snow in the parking lot.
The sides of the parking lotand we would dig tunnels and we
would play in the snow for hours.
While my mom's meeting with adoptersand cleaning cages and doing paperwork
and all the cat rescue things that youneed to do, we would keep our little
like razor scooters at the rescueand like play on the parking lot.
(03:55):
So like my childhood memories.
Are of the cat rescue.
We now have like free room apartmentrooms, but before that it was dog runs
that we used as the free room rooms.
And one dog run was quoteunquote mine and one was Alex's.
And we would just.
Spend time in these runs and wewould pretend they're our offices.
And when adopters would come in,I'd try to convince them to adopt
(04:18):
a cat from my quote unquote run.
And Alex would try to convincehim to adopt cats from his run.
And so that was like myintroduction to cat adoption.
When I got older, I got a lot of volunteerhours because I was volunteering at
a cat rescue every day of my life.
So I was lucky to get some scholarshipsand get recognized for volunteer hours.
And then when I graduated, . Ididn't really know what I
(04:39):
wanted to do with my life.
I got a degree incommunications, which I loved.
My minor is in P T W, which isprofessional technical writing.
I love to write, which I thinkreflects in my cat biographies
that I write now at my job, but,
I also got the job of being theBavarian Princess here in town in 2018.
So I needed all of the weekends off inthe summer to tour as Princess because
(04:59):
I had to go and be in parades andrepresent Frankenmuth, and I couldn't
find a job straight out of graduationthat would give me the time off.
But my mom needed a rescueworker and I needed a job.
So the agreement was for my PrincessRay and I would work at Pet Angel
and then I'd find another job afterI gave up my crown at the end of,
in 2019, well now it's 2023 and I'm
(05:20):
still.
. I'm not leaving until the rescue leaves
Cliff Duvernois (05:22):
with regards to the rescue, it's not just a simple
process of people walking throughthe door and picking out a cat.
There's, you know, application thatthey've gotta fill out everything.
Walk us through that
process.
Abby Engel (05:35):
Well, actually, I think this is gonna be the
first place I talk about this.
I've come up with a newway to describe Pet Angel.
We're not just like any other animalshelter where you can go in, you can meet
all of the cats that we have availableand pick whichever one you want because,
That's not realistically how pickingan animal works, and I don't think
that everybody really realizesthat you need the perfect match
(05:55):
for your family, and every catneeds the perfect match for them.
So that's what we do.
We help you find your perfect match.
Instead of just finding a cat, I takeinto account your other pets, how
active your home is, how many peopleyou have in your home, what your
home is like, and what you want in.
to be able to find theperfect cat for you.
So if you have, let's say it'sjust you, just, you Cliff, you
(06:17):
don't want to have any other pets.
It's just you.
You don't plan on having anybodyelse in your household for the
next 10 years, and you want.
, an active, playful cat that'lljust interact with you.
But like you know, you will gointerview people all the time.
So someone who can be independentwhile you're off doing interviews for
your podcast, I'd be able to find youa cat that would love to cuddle and
greet you at the door, but is alsogonna be good solo when you're gone.
(06:39):
They're not gonna like climbyour curtains or destroy things.
But I feel like sometimes when peoplego into an animal rescue, they see
that super cute cat in the cage.
They don't ask oh, what'shis personality like?
Does he like kids?
Does he like other cats?
Does he climb curtains?
What's his history?
Know that and you don't know that, soyou just kinda get thrown in with a
cat you know nothing about, and thenyou have to try to figure it out.
(07:00):
And that's why I don't thinkadoptions last all the time.
So we've altered the waythat I do my adoptions.
So let's say you're a familyof five coming in to meet cats.
If I have a cat who doesn't likechildren, I'm not gonna show you
those cats, which I think makes sense.
Now I'm
not trying to talk shade on otherrescues here, but I don't feel
like other rescues really alwaystake that into consideration.
Cliff Duvernois (07:21):
Well, I think there's just a a marked difference
too between people that are justthinking, get the cats outta.
Abby Engel (07:27):
Mm-hmm.
Cliff Duvernois (07:27):
without really thinking about the fact that that
people could take the cat home,like you were talking about before.
So people look at a cat, they thinkit's cute, they take it home, but the
cat wants to have nothing to do with
the kids.
Yeah.
So the kids are crying cuz thecat doesn't wanna play with me.
The cat's always mean.
So what do they do?
They bring the cat
back Exactly
right.
And want to exchange it foranother cute one that's in there.
(07:48):
So with that being.
How do you go about judging the, I guess,quote unquote personalities of the cats
to determined, well, this one likes kids.
Oh, this one likes to be by itself.
This one needs anothercat for companionship.
How do you go about
judging that?
Abby Engel (08:04):
Sometimes it's easy because the cat will be surrendered
to me with that information.
For example, I have a cat right now whowas surrendered because she did not get
along with children in the home, so that'swhy the family couldn't keep her anymore.
So it's obvious to me she's not gonnado well in a home with children again.
But I also have volunteers who are mylovely quote unquote Guinea pigs, and.
I can ask them, Hey, when youcame in with your six-year-old
(08:27):
last week, how did Sonny do?
And they can let me know.
Like Sonny doesn't really interactwith my six year old when we're at the,
when we're volunteering, or this onehides whenever he comes into the room.
So I can figure that out by processof illumination with my volunteers.
It is hard with dogs because I can't bringa dog into my animal rescue because they.
Our animal, and we can't just let animalsthat aren't fully quarantined interact
(08:51):
with our animals for, illness reasons.
So for that, I just baseit off of personality.
If they're really, reallyscared when I walk in the room.
If a Great Dane walks in the room, they'reprobably also gonna be really scared.
If a cat is so shy that like you, theydon't come out very often unless they
eat, drink, or go to the bathroom, they'reprobably not gonna be comfortable to
(09:13):
come out to interact around at any dog.
I have a small dog at home,so sometimes I'll use could
this cat handle my dog doodle?
Doodle is not very big.
If they could handle doodle, Ifeel like they could handle any
dog
, right?
So I kind of sometimes takethat into consideration too.
But sometimes it's just easy totell when you interact with the cat.
I have one right now.
He's a face biter.
He's not being mean.
(09:33):
He just likes to nibble on your face.
But obviously I'm not gonnagive a family with a newborn
baby a cat that bites faces.
Cliff Duvernois (09:41):
No, you
definitely would
Abby Engel (09:42):
wanna do
that.
Some people might though, so Ialways make sure people know like,
I don't want you to just find a cat.
I want you to find your perfect match.
Cuz like you said, I don't thinkit's fair for a kid to have a cat
that hates them and I don't thinkit's fair to a cat to have a home.
where they hate someone in the home.
So I'd rather find that cat home wherethey like everybody and find you a,
(10:04):
a cat that would love your kids andwanna sleep in bed with your kids.
I have cats that'll do that.
It's just whether or not youlike the looks of them, I guess.
Cliff Duvernois (10:11):
So now what is your track record as far as
placing cats inside of homes?
I mean, I don't know if you know exactnumbers off the top of your head,
but I mean, is it like really good?
Do you see a lot of people bringingtheir cats back when they're done?
Abby Engel (10:23):
So when I took over Pet Angel, I did, I do feel like I
helped change the way that we didadoptions because I saw a lot of
returns when I first started full-time.
And one of the things I wantedto do was, Stop returns.
I wanted to make sure when a catgo goes home, they're going home to
their forever home unless for likea dire emergency, like an owner
(10:44):
passes away or something like that.
And so I did think that that cut backon adoptions a little bit, but it
also cut back on our return rate whichI consider if a cat is adopted and
returned three weeks later, that's nota true adoption number in my opinion.
They were returned, so I don't countthat as an adoption of the year.
But the pandemic really did play areally big part into our adoption
numbers, and it still is today.
(11:05):
So I didn't really talk abouthow many adoptions we did last
year because it was very low.
And that's because a lot ofpeople, when they went into the
pandemic and had all this time off.
They wanted adopted animalsand then when they all went
back to work in 2021 and 2020.
They all return to theanimals, to the shelters.
So right now the shelters are in abit of an epidemic ourselves, and I
don't know if a lot of people knowthat we are, but we're overcrowded.
(11:28):
We don't have adoptions.
We just have more peoplewanting to bring us cats.
And we're also now a no-kill state,which means 90% of the animals going
into kill shelters are not euthanized.
I'm a no-kill shelter, so thatstatistic doesn't matter for me.
But for the state of Michigan,that just means that we eliminated.
Eliminating of animals, which is great.
(11:49):
That's what we wanna do.
We don't wanna euthanize them.
But we also didn't come up withwhat we're gonna do with the
surplus of animals that we now have.
So all of our animal rescues are
full.
Everybody wants to keep bringingus more, which is contributing
to the dumping of animals now.
So it's all just bleeding overand is a little crazy right now.
I do think that's also playing into whatI'm calling the epidemic of rudeness.
(12:13):
The animal welfare world becauseso many people have animals they
wanna return, but we're all full.
So people are getting upset and acting outtowards us in the animal welfare industry.
And a lot of people I know from othershelters in the state are actually
leaving the industry because it's tooemotionally tolling for them right now.
Cliff Duvernois (12:29):
Sweet Moses.
Yeah.
There's a whole othercomponent right there.
What I'd like to do is I would liketo, cuz you were talking before about
the personality that your cats have.
Yeah.
So what I'd like to do is I wantto talk to you about how you
are leveraging social media.
To get your message out andto connect with your audience.
Cuz one of the things that youdo really well on Facebook,
(12:50):
I read your post whenever you'vegot, you know, hi, my name is Timmy.
Yes,
and there's some post about, oh, wellI like kids and I like to snuggle.
And you really do an excellent job ofpainting a personality around a cat.
Not only to, you know, let peopleknow that, hey, there's, there's
this, really cute cat here.
But also get the message out to peoplethat if they are looking for a cat, here's
(13:12):
one that might be a good fit for you.
First off, how did you come up withthe idea to start giving your, your
cats these, I guess, backs, stories
on
social.
Abby Engel (13:20):
I call
'em resumes.
So the idea was, I don't know if you'veseen the little like documents I make
where it actually looks like a job resume,but every cat at the rescue gets a true
quote unquote job resume made for themthat I handmake and takes a really long
time , but I do it and it's a resumefor them to be your new house cat.
Um, I came up with itbecause, . I went to school.
Well, my minor is professionaltechnical writing, like I said.
(13:43):
And one of the things that we did in thatwas make resumes, and that was my favorite
part of Ptw when I was in college.
I love making resumes.
All of my friends, like ask me tohelp them make their resumes because
it's like a secret love of mine.
So I'm like, heck yeah.
I wanna make resumes all, all the time.
I love doing this, so I'mgonna make 'em for the cats
and
I.
Personalize it and make it all cute,which is what I love to do, but I also
(14:05):
get to do it about an animal that I love.
I don't think a lot of people knowhow long an animal is with us before
they go up for adoption, but allthe animals have to be quarantined
for at least 10 days before theycan even be considered or moved.
And I don't put them up for adoption.
Oh, 10 days is up.
They're up for adoption.
I move them out of our isolationroom at that point, and I wait until
they're comfortable in their newenvironment, whether that's a cage or
(14:26):
free room, room, something like that,before I put them up for adoption.
So I usually know themfor at least a month
before.
And in that month I'm interacting withthem from the state of, they're absolutely
terrified, hissing, growling, hidingwhen they arrive to their crawling all
over my lap and cuddling on day 30.
So I get to know their personality a lot.
I know their backstory cuzI'm the one that took them in.
(14:48):
So I can tell you where they came from.
I can tell you why they were surrendered.
I know their personality becauseI've been the one that's working
with them every day on socializing.
And I can.
them, interact with the other cats.
Oh my gosh.
They love the other cats.
Okay.
They'll do great in ahome with other cats.
You mentioned I do have some pairs.
It's very obvious which onesdon't want to leave each other.
So when you see that happen,I can say like, okay, these
(15:09):
guys need to be a bonded pair.
They won't even, I can't take thisone out of the room without the
other ones screaming their head off.
They need to be together.
I think it's just like, you know, whenyou know a lot of people, it's kinda like
asking a teacher, like how they make theirc lassroom seating chart, they kind of
get to know the students and know, okay,these two can't sit next to each other.
I know which two cats cannot bein the same room together, . But
(15:30):
I also think that that helps a lotwith placing em into their homes.
Cliff Duvernois (15:32):
The added aspect to this as well, is it's more than
just putting a photo onto facebook.
Oh, yeah.
And say, here's a new cat bywriting up that cat resume as
you called it, right there.
First off, people love your stories.
because people are liking yourposts, they're hearting your posts,
they're commenting down below.
They're doing everything, whichfrom a social media marketing
(15:52):
standpoint, that's what you want.
You want to put content out there thatpeople are gonna engage with, but these
people seem to get really emotionallyinvested in what it is that you're doing.
Abby Engel (16:02):
Yeah.
I might be, because Ithink it's somewhat cats.
I do think, you know, you bringanimals into something and you.
The animals.
Because who doesn't look a cute cat?
I mean, let's be honest.
Every time you see a cute animal onsocial media, you stop for a second
to look before you keep scrolling.
You gotta, but I also think it's justthe story aspect that I bring to it.
(16:24):
I'm not just here's a cat.
They're fully vetted, they need a home.
I'll tell you everything about them,everything that I possibly can because
I want them, to find the perfect home.
And I want you to find the perfect cat.
And I feel like that'sthe best way to do it.
Sometimes I feel like I get down onmyself, like I don't know what I'm doing.
I'm full imposter syndrome.
I guess I, and I get it a lotoh my gosh, how am I any better?
How, how can I be the person to decidewhether or not these people get cats?
(16:47):
Like, how can I be this judgemental?
I hate judging people and I'mthe one that judges applications
like, so I hate doing that , but.
. Other times
I look at, I read my own bio or I'llread a story that I wrote and I'll cry.
I'm reading my own writing and I'm tearingup and I'm like, oh my gosh, I guess
I am kind of good at this.
Sometimes , so sometimes I feel likeeverybody I feel like feels like that.
(17:11):
Like nobody knows what they're doing.
And I don't want anybody listeningto this be like, oh my gosh, Abby
totally knows what she's doingcuz I'm winging this 100% 24 7.
But if you tell me something works, thenI'm just gonna say, okay, well that works.
So I'm just gonna keepdoing it and this works.
So I just keep doing.
Cliff Duvernois (17:25):
Well, I think for any either business or nonprofit out there,
you kind of have to experiment to findout what it is that's really gonna
resonate with your particular audience.
Yep.
Abby Engel (17:37):
Oh, yeah.
Cliff Duvernois (17:38):
speaking of audience, let's talk about you and TikTok.
Okay.
Because that seems to bewhere you're really shining.
Yeah.
So how, how many peopleare following you now
on,
on
Abby Engel (17:50):
TikTok
You wanna get a live number?
Let me, uh, open up TikTok quick.
So right now we, 219000.8.
So 219,800, is that what that is?
Cliff Duvernois (18:02):
200.
19,800.
Abby Engel (18:04):
Yeah.
Two 19.8 K.
So
that's a lot.
Um, I'm at 5.4 millionlikes on TikTok as well.
And would you believe me if I told
you
I
have no idea what I'm.
That's
perfect.
I truly wing a lot of my TikTok, so Ihave worked with a couple companies now.
Um, but when I started TikTok, justlike everybody else, I downloaded
(18:26):
during the pandemic, I was staying
home.
we were supposed to, butI have an animal rescue.
We can't just not go to theanimal rescue for three weeks.
I was going in not every day, cuzI wasn't working full days, but
still to take care of the animals,to check on them, to see things.
And I'm bored.
I, the phone's not ringing.
I have no applications.
I can't do intakes, I can't doouttakes, I can't do anything.
So I just made a TikTok of the cat rescuebecause I'm sitting in the building for
(18:50):
by myself all day long doing nothing.
So I'll make
a TikTok and it.
People wanted to see my cats.
People had questions, peoplewanted to know more about me, so
I told my story, oh, this is howmy parents started my cat rescue.
Oh, here's this cat.
This is, and I just explainedour rescue, you know?
Oh, they're all fully vetted.
Oh yeah.
Like, no, we're a no kill shelter.
Oh, yeah.
They stay with us till they find a home.
(19:10):
Yeah, we have free room rooms.
They don't all have to stay in cages.
People loved it.
Sometimes I think some people cometo my channel just for the cats.
Sometimes I think people come tomy channel just for me, whatever
you come to my channel to.
I'm just glad you're there.
Cliff Duvernois (19:22):
So let's talk about some of the, the real
tangible benefits of TikTok.
Have you been able toraise money through TikTok?
Yeah.
Have you gained, uh, I don'twanna say notoriety, maybe,
you know, you've garnered some,some real attention from people.
Talk to us a little bit about that.
Abby Engel (19:39):
So there's good aspects of TikTok and there's bad aspects of
TikTok, so I kinda wanna talk about both.
The good is we've benefited fromit in so many ways, not only from
being able to reach people globally,like I have followers from the other
side of the world who send, noteven like monetary donations, but
they'll buy things off our Amazonwishlist and send them to the rescue.
So we're getting.
(19:59):
More donations than we ever havebefore from people all over the
world who have never heard ofus or even know me personally.
They just wanna send my catsa cat, you know, a cat tree.
And we love that and
we
love to see it.
I feel like sometimes there's some peoplewho aren't so nice too, see the internet.
Yeah.
And so that, I feel it gets hard toshow up on TikTok for me, sometimes
(20:23):
I won't post for a little bit justbecause I'm a very empathetic person
and I don't think people realize that.
I do read the comments,so I'll see something.
You know, someone could bereally great bringing, like it
brings in a lot of donations.
So many people fromthis one video brought,
but one bad comment, Idon't wanna post for.
So even though it's benefiting my rescueand my cats are seeing success, it's
(20:46):
i'll, I've cried over comments probablythis week alone, people will reach out.
They don't think I see it.
They don't, oh, she has 200 followers.
She doesn't see my dms.
I see the dms and they're notkind, and I don't answer most of
the, not kind ones, but I see 'em.
So it kind of, The two coins.
(21:07):
I have people from other sidesof the world who are reaching
out, sending donations.
People who have lived left usin our will, in their wills.
We don't even know them, andthey've left us in their wills.
I've had adopters find us on TikTok.
I've gotten to work with amazing brandsthat all of us use every single day.
I've made money myself, not only justfor the karaoke, but people have paid me
(21:28):
for who
I am for.
And I've never a mil imaginedthat in a million years.
But then on the flip coin, I openmy comments and people are calling
me names and saying, I did this inmy video, so I'm a bad person, or
I didn't post, so I'm a bad person.
And so there's both of it.
(21:49):
, it's really helping the rescue,but sometimes it's really damaging
my
self-esteem and my
personal worth
Cliff Duvernois (21:53):
because a lot of who you are.
Is wrapped up in this becauseyou are literally sharing
your
story as
you
go.
Abby Engel (22:02):
Yeah.
I'm not a character.
I'm not an actor.
I'm not
a fake, I think a character.
I'm not a, well, I guess Ishouldn't say a character in a book.
I'm not like a made up personthat this company has put me
on to be their spokes model.
I'm the only employee at Pet Angel.
I'm the face of the place.
I am the employee of the place,and I'm also Akel, not Pet Angel.
(22:26):
I have other things Ido in my life too, not.
Cat rescue related.
So it's really hard for me tolike unravel the two sometimes.
So if someone gets really upset that I amnot taking a cat from them, or I didn't,
I, their application was denied forsome reason, they'll take it out on me.
And I take that personally.
(22:46):
So I've been trying to put up someboundaries a little bit on social media.
Um, like I don't alwaysanswer personal dms anymore.
Um, they have to be directedto like Pet Angels account
if they're pet Angel related.
Just to protect myself a little bit more.
Cliff Duvernois (22:59):
When you were talking before about these negative comments
that were coming in and how it takesa little bit of an emotional toll
and you're, you don't post for a week
mm-hmm.
, you know, you need to take a break.
How do you overcome.
That to get back onto the social mediabandwagon, to get back onto TikTok, what,
(23:20):
what is your thought process that thathelps you to flip that switch to say,
okay, yesterday I wasn't gonnado it, but today I'll do it.
Abby Engel (23:26):
usually
an idea
for a video.
If
I don't have an idea for a video,I'm probably not gonna show up if
I'm having one of those bad days.
Sometimes I'll be scrolling onTikTok at bed and I'll be like,
oh my gosh, I love this sound.
This is what I could do with it.
Save it.
And I make it the next day.
And then it just, I'm okay Again,there's no bad comments on that video.
I'm okay.
It, I think it depends onthe comments though too.
If it was something really bad, if they'vebeen continuing, I'm gonna probably
(23:50):
not post for a little bit because Iwant that person to kind of forget I
existed before I start posting again.
I do block people, but peopledon't care if they make a
second profile and find you.
There's hate watchers.
They count as a view, so thanks forthe view, but sometimes I wish people
wouldn't leave comments that are mean.
If you don't say anything, ifyou don't have anything nice to
say, don't say anything at all.
Should be a rule still.
Cliff Duvernois (24:11):
so TikTok has actually had a lot more benefits.
For the rescue.
Yes.
And there's definitely has been abenefit to, you know, for fair lack
of a better term, for being fearless.
Abby Engel (24:23):
Yeah.
To
go
Cliff Duvernois (24:24):
TikTok, cuz not a lot of people would do that.
Abby Engel (24:26):
I don't know if I'm fearless because I do think the hate is pretty
hard sometimes and I do privately takeit pretty hard, but, I still show up
because it's my job because no oneelse is gonna do it for the cats.
So if I don't like, we'lllose all of these followers.
We lose all of these donors andI feel like it's kind of riding
on me to, to keep 'em entertainedso they'll keep helping us.
(24:49):
I think that it's like a give serve.
I give them the cat content,they give us donations,
but
it
works out.
There are some really great people.
I've met some people on TikTokthat I wouldn't have known
otherwise, and now they're like,I've never met them in real life.
We just talk on social mediabecause they've become great
supporters of our rescue.
I'm sure they're listening tothis cuz they support us so much.
(25:09):
They'll listen to anything I post.
Anything that has to do with thecat rescue, they'll be there.
So I'm sure they, they're listening.
They're like, yeah.
Oh
my
god,
that's
me.
It is you.
Hi Stephanie
Cliff Duvernois (25:16):
me.
Oh,
Abby Engel (25:19):
Oh, that's so wonderful.
Being able to createrelationships media like that.
Yeah.
And I don't even know them.
They just love our rescue, love whatwe do, and they're there for us.
And I mean, we had a, I have twocats, their names Sonny and Bunny last
year.
They had
to have, they have.
I think
it's pronounced
periodontal disease.
And they had to have fulldental work done, teeth pulled.
(25:40):
Bunny got most of his teeth pulledduring the surgery and we found
out they had it and they neededthe surgery pretty quickly.
And we did not have the money for two catsto get dental surgery at the same time.
And I made a TikTok about it and bythe end of the day, I had enough money
for both of those cats to get their
dental surgery
plus
more.
So
I'm able to get things.
(26:00):
Never before were possible
because of TikTok.
Like Bunny and Sunny would've had towait months before for us to raise enough
money for them to get that surgery, andI was able to schedule it the next day.
I don't really wanna talk about f I Pa lot because it's really complex and
I definitely cry when I talk about it.
But f i p is a really bad fataldisease that is kind of coming up
in the cat rescue world right now.
(26:21):
If you're worrying about it foryour animal, you don't need to.
It usually only happens when there'sa lot of animals that are together.
It has to do with the feline coronavirus.
It's very complex.
You can look it up if you want.
It's called F i P but it hitour rescue two years ago.
Cliff Duvernois (26:35):
ago.
Oh,
Abby Engel (26:36):
And we lost a couple cats to it.
A few of them are very dear to my heart.
My bottle feed babies, my, that eyebottle fed had 'em, um, I lost one
of them and two of them are now ouroffice cats there, f i p survivors.
But because of TikTok, Ibelieve those cats survived.
F i p.
because I wouldn't have beenable to afford the medication.
It is so, so expensive.
(26:58):
We currently have a cat who hasf i p, she's in foster care.
She is on the medication, but it's veryexpensive and I don't think we'd be able
to even do this medication and save theirlives if I didn't have TikTok followers
who
are
giving
us
views, which is giving us donations.
Cliff Duvernois (27:13):
So I think it's safe to say that making that
investment into creating theselittle short videos on TikTok,
creating
this
content,
sharing the
story, has
paid off
for
you in
spades.
Abby Engel (27:23):
TikTok has saved cat's lives for sure, at my cat rescue, and
I don't think that people realize it.
Like, I don't think, when peoplewatch my TikTok, they're like, oh,
I just, I'm making a difference.
But you are like, you truly are.
When people leave, like acomment that spikes the video
when people
like
the
video
that spikes the video,
like all
of
it's
helping.
I don't think yeah, just
(27:43):
watching
it, it helps.
I don't joke when I saylike a dollar donation.
If you make $1 donation on Facebook, weget that whole donation from Facebook.
They don't take a portion ofa donation made through there.
So that, or like PayPal or somethinglike that, that $1 is making a huge
difference because you know, 50 peoplecan make a $1 donation and that's $50.
So I don't think people realize like,yeah, you know, one view, one full,
(28:05):
watching a TikTok on one full videomight give them 1 cent, but that's
5,000 people doing that at once.
That's.
Money in
an hour.
So it helps
and
everything
helps.
And I, I appreciate TikTok.
I really do.
I know I was talking trash on it.
Sometimes it really is hard sometimesto just show up on it every day,
but I'm finding ways to manage it.
(28:25):
One thing
I have
been doing
is Bulk making my tos so Idon't have to show up on TikTok
every day to make a video.
I can just make four in one dayand then I don't have to make a
video for three days, and that's
been helping me a lot.
Yes.
Don't have to get myself fully ready andshow up on camera when I'm not feeling it.
Cliff Duvernois (28:43):
please.
Certainly.
Abby, for our audience, if anybody'slistening to this and they want to
connect with you, learn more about Petangel adoption, maybe even find you on
tikTok and leave you a nice comment,
, Abby Engel: Yes, please.
So I am Ace Engel, which is just a C EE N G E L on all social media platforms.
And then Pet Angel adoption isjust pet angel adoption on TikTok.
(29:07):
It's just me.
Pet Angel does not have their own TikTok.
It's my TikTok.
We are one , which is just the Ace angle.
Um, and then on Facebook it's justPet Angel, cat Adoption and Rescue.
I don't use my personal Facebook for likecat stuff, so don't look me up on there.
Just look up Pet Angel's account.
I'm the one that answerseverything on there.
And for our audience, you can go to total michigan.com.
Click on Abby's interview andget all the links that she
(29:28):
shared with us today in the show.
And please take a moment todonate to their great cause.
If you are interested in havingthese stories sent directly to
your inbox, head over to ourwebsite@totalmichigan.com slash join.
Give us your email and we'll send youour top five interviews along with the
powerful lessons that I've learned alongthe ways talking to these people that
(29:51):
are doing really extraordinary things.
You'll also get an invitation to joinour private Facebook group, as well
as Advanced notice of upcoming guestsand great behind the scenes stories.
Once again, that's totalmichigan.com/join, and I'll
catch you in the next episode.
I don't know if I'm fearless because I do think the hate is pretty
hard sometimes and I do privately takeit pretty hard, but, I still show up
because it's my job because no oneelse is gonna do it for the cats.
Cliff Duvernois (00:12):
Hello everyone and welcome back to another episode of
Ordinary People, extraordinary Things.
I'm your host, cliff Dubin, wa.
You know, when it comes to the world ofnonprofits, I love to find those out there
who are doing things differently, and thatis certainly the case with today's guest.
She's taken this small local cat rescue.
And connected it with a large base ofraving fans from all across the globe.
(00:38):
Please welcome to the show, the animatedAbby Engel from Pet Angel Adoption.
out of Frankenmuth, Michigan.
Abby, how are.
you
You
Abby Engel (00:45):
I'm good cliff.
How are you?
Cliff Duvernois (00:47):
I'm doing awesome.
Thank you for asking.
And I know that Abby Engel isn'tgonna be your name for long, cuz
you just got recently engaged.
Abby Engel (00:54):
did.
By the end of this year,I'll be Abby Krieger.
Thank you.
I'm so excited.
Cliff Duvernois (00:58):
there we go.
So we're talking todayabout Pet Angel Adoption.
Why don't you walk us throughwhat Pet Angel adoption is?
Abby Engel (01:05):
So for 20 years my parents have been running a cat
rescue and they accidentallystarted it, um, when I was eight.
My.
Parents had some feral cats inour backyard and they had given
birth and abandoned the kittens.
And my mom had bottle fed kittens before,so she was like, let's just do this.
We can take 'em in bottle, feed 'em,find 'em homes, we'll be done with it.
So of course we took 'em to the local vetto get them vetted because that's what you
(01:27):
do when you bottle feed kittens everybody.
And.
They were like, why doyou have so many kittens?
And my mom explained the wholesituation and then the next thing
she knows, they were like, well,hey, this person found a cat.
Will you take it?
And this person found acat, will you take it?
And before we knew it, we had cagesof cats in my childhood garage
and my parents said, we can'tkeep cats in our garage like this.
So they had a decision to make, whichwas in one hand, just find all the cats.
(01:50):
We currently had homes and.
Call it good and get rid of thecages and be done, or file for a
non-profit PA paperwork and finda location, and they went with the
ladder and petting Angel was born.
We
Cliff Duvernois (02:01):
so why did they, so let me ask you this question.
Why go that route?
Why not just get rid of the catsand say we're out of this business
versus going into a nonprofit?
Cuz having a nonprofit is tough.
Abby Engel (02:11):
I think that's a question you'd have to ask my mom, but if I
was to answer for her, I would sayit's because they're good people.
There you go.
I don't think my parents could.
look
at all of these homeless cats andkittens and be like, forget you.
So I truly think that I, I always sayto people that I was born to my parents
because this is what I was supposed to do.
I mean, God, whatever higher powercould have put me with any people.
(02:33):
And he put me with the two peoplewho started an animal rescue and
then he like, Poured into me all thiscompassion and empathy and I'm just
like, this is where I'm supposed to be.
And I think that that also playsa part into like who my mom is.
I mean, cliff didn't mention it, butCliff also knows my parents very well.
Cliff was my dad's brother'sbest friend when they were kids.
(02:53):
So Cliff knows my dad.
He knew my parents' probablybefore I was even around.
And so he knows who they are andI don't think my parents could
just not, they love animals.
My mom specifically,
As a child, my brother Alex, he'sthree years younger than I, instead
of going home after school, wewent to the cat rescue because my
mom was taking care of it alone.
(03:13):
That was her full-time job.
She didn't, she was a stay-at-home mom.
Al my, my dad worked so.
Stay-at-home.
Mom became cat rescueand stay-at-home mom.
So when she would pick us upfrom school, we went, we went
to the rescue instead of home.
So the cat rescue became our playground.
I remember as a kid we would keepour snow gear at the rescue, like
our snow pants and our jackets,and our gloves, and our hats.
(03:34):
And after school, Alex and I wouldput it all on and the landlord
outside the rescue would pushall the snow in the parking lot.
The sides of the parking lotand we would dig tunnels and we
would play in the snow for hours.
While my mom's meeting with adoptersand cleaning cages and doing paperwork
and all the cat rescue things that youneed to do, we would keep our little
like razor scooters at the rescueand like play on the parking lot.
(03:55):
So like my childhood memories.
Are of the cat rescue.
We now have like free room apartmentrooms, but before that it was dog runs
that we used as the free room rooms.
And one dog run was quoteunquote mine and one was Alex's.
And we would just.
Spend time in these runs and wewould pretend they're our offices.
And when adopters would come in,I'd try to convince them to adopt
(04:18):
a cat from my quote unquote run.
And Alex would try to convincehim to adopt cats from his run.
And so that was like myintroduction to cat adoption.
When I got older, I got a lot of volunteerhours because I was volunteering at
a cat rescue every day of my life.
So I was lucky to get some scholarshipsand get recognized for volunteer hours.
And then when I graduated, . Ididn't really know what I
(04:39):
wanted to do with my life.
I got a degree incommunications, which I loved.
My minor is in P T W, which isprofessional technical writing.
I love to write, which I thinkreflects in my cat biographies
that I write now at my job, but,
I also got the job of being theBavarian Princess here in town in 2018.
So I needed all of the weekends off inthe summer to tour as Princess because
(04:59):
I had to go and be in parades andrepresent Frankenmuth, and I couldn't
find a job straight out of graduationthat would give me the time off.
But my mom needed a rescueworker and I needed a job.
So the agreement was for my PrincessRay and I would work at Pet Angel
and then I'd find another job afterI gave up my crown at the end of,
in 2019, well now it's 2023 and I'm
(05:20):
still.
. I'm not leaving until the rescue leaves
Cliff Duvernois (05:22):
with regards to the rescue, it's not just a simple
process of people walking throughthe door and picking out a cat.
There's, you know, application thatthey've gotta fill out everything.
Walk us through that
process.
Abby Engel (05:35):
Well, actually, I think this is gonna be the
first place I talk about this.
I've come up with a newway to describe Pet Angel.
We're not just like any other animalshelter where you can go in, you can meet
all of the cats that we have availableand pick whichever one you want because,
That's not realistically how pickingan animal works, and I don't think
that everybody really realizesthat you need the perfect match
(05:55):
for your family, and every catneeds the perfect match for them.
So that's what we do.
We help you find your perfect match.
Instead of just finding a cat, I takeinto account your other pets, how
active your home is, how many peopleyou have in your home, what your
home is like, and what you want in.
to be able to find theperfect cat for you.
So if you have, let's say it'sjust you, just, you Cliff, you
(06:17):
don't want to have any other pets.
It's just you.
You don't plan on having anybodyelse in your household for the
next 10 years, and you want.
, an active, playful cat that'lljust interact with you.
But like you know, you will gointerview people all the time.
So someone who can be independentwhile you're off doing interviews for
your podcast, I'd be able to find youa cat that would love to cuddle and
greet you at the door, but is alsogonna be good solo when you're gone.
(06:39):
They're not gonna like climbyour curtains or destroy things.
But I feel like sometimes when peoplego into an animal rescue, they see
that super cute cat in the cage.
They don't ask oh, what'shis personality like?
Does he like kids?
Does he like other cats?
Does he climb curtains?
What's his history?
Know that and you don't know that, soyou just kinda get thrown in with a
cat you know nothing about, and thenyou have to try to figure it out.
(07:00):
And that's why I don't thinkadoptions last all the time.
So we've altered the waythat I do my adoptions.
So let's say you're a familyof five coming in to meet cats.
If I have a cat who doesn't likechildren, I'm not gonna show you
those cats, which I think makes sense.
Now I'm
not trying to talk shade on otherrescues here, but I don't feel
like other rescues really alwaystake that into consideration.
Cliff Duvernois (07:21):
Well, I think there's just a a marked difference
too between people that are justthinking, get the cats outta.
Abby Engel (07:27):
Mm-hmm.
Cliff Duvernois (07:27):
without really thinking about the fact that that
people could take the cat home,like you were talking about before.
So people look at a cat, they thinkit's cute, they take it home, but the
cat wants to have nothing to do with
the kids.
Yeah.
So the kids are crying cuz thecat doesn't wanna play with me.
The cat's always mean.
So what do they do?
They bring the cat
back Exactly
right.
And want to exchange it foranother cute one that's in there.
(07:48):
So with that being.
How do you go about judging the, I guess,quote unquote personalities of the cats
to determined, well, this one likes kids.
Oh, this one likes to be by itself.
This one needs anothercat for companionship.
How do you go about
judging that?
Abby Engel (08:04):
Sometimes it's easy because the cat will be surrendered
to me with that information.
For example, I have a cat right now whowas surrendered because she did not get
along with children in the home, so that'swhy the family couldn't keep her anymore.
So it's obvious to me she's not gonnado well in a home with children again.
But I also have volunteers who are mylovely quote unquote Guinea pigs, and.
I can ask them, Hey, when youcame in with your six-year-old
(08:27):
last week, how did Sonny do?
And they can let me know.
Like Sonny doesn't really interactwith my six year old when we're at the,
when we're volunteering, or this onehides whenever he comes into the room.
So I can figure that out by processof illumination with my volunteers.
It is hard with dogs because I can't bringa dog into my animal rescue because they.
Our animal, and we can't just let animalsthat aren't fully quarantined interact
(08:51):
with our animals for, illness reasons.
So for that, I just baseit off of personality.
If they're really, reallyscared when I walk in the room.
If a Great Dane walks in the room, they'reprobably also gonna be really scared.
If a cat is so shy that like you, theydon't come out very often unless they
eat, drink, or go to the bathroom, they'reprobably not gonna be comfortable to
(09:13):
come out to interact around at any dog.
I have a small dog at home,so sometimes I'll use could
this cat handle my dog doodle?
Doodle is not very big.
If they could handle doodle, Ifeel like they could handle any
dog
, right?
So I kind of sometimes takethat into consideration too.
But sometimes it's just easy totell when you interact with the cat.
I have one right now.
He's a face biter.
He's not being mean.
(09:33):
He just likes to nibble on your face.
But obviously I'm not gonnagive a family with a newborn
baby a cat that bites faces.
Cliff Duvernois (09:41):
No, you
definitely would
Abby Engel (09:42):
wanna do
that.
Some people might though, so Ialways make sure people know like,
I don't want you to just find a cat.
I want you to find your perfect match.
Cuz like you said, I don't thinkit's fair for a kid to have a cat
that hates them and I don't thinkit's fair to a cat to have a home.
where they hate someone in the home.
So I'd rather find that cat home wherethey like everybody and find you a,
(10:04):
a cat that would love your kids andwanna sleep in bed with your kids.
I have cats that'll do that.
It's just whether or not youlike the looks of them, I guess.
Cliff Duvernois (10:11):
So now what is your track record as far as
placing cats inside of homes?
I mean, I don't know if you know exactnumbers off the top of your head,
but I mean, is it like really good?
Do you see a lot of people bringingtheir cats back when they're done?
Abby Engel (10:23):
So when I took over Pet Angel, I did, I do feel like I
helped change the way that we didadoptions because I saw a lot of
returns when I first started full-time.
And one of the things I wantedto do was, Stop returns.
I wanted to make sure when a catgo goes home, they're going home to
their forever home unless for likea dire emergency, like an owner
(10:44):
passes away or something like that.
And so I did think that that cut backon adoptions a little bit, but it
also cut back on our return rate whichI consider if a cat is adopted and
returned three weeks later, that's nota true adoption number in my opinion.
They were returned, so I don't countthat as an adoption of the year.
But the pandemic really did play areally big part into our adoption
numbers, and it still is today.
(11:05):
So I didn't really talk abouthow many adoptions we did last
year because it was very low.
And that's because a lot ofpeople, when they went into the
pandemic and had all this time off.
They wanted adopted animalsand then when they all went
back to work in 2021 and 2020.
They all return to theanimals, to the shelters.
So right now the shelters are in abit of an epidemic ourselves, and I
don't know if a lot of people knowthat we are, but we're overcrowded.
(11:28):
We don't have adoptions.
We just have more peoplewanting to bring us cats.
And we're also now a no-kill state,which means 90% of the animals going
into kill shelters are not euthanized.
I'm a no-kill shelter, so thatstatistic doesn't matter for me.
But for the state of Michigan,that just means that we eliminated.
Eliminating of animals, which is great.
(11:49):
That's what we wanna do.
We don't wanna euthanize them.
But we also didn't come up withwhat we're gonna do with the
surplus of animals that we now have.
So all of our animal rescues are
full.
Everybody wants to keep bringingus more, which is contributing
to the dumping of animals now.
So it's all just bleeding overand is a little crazy right now.
I do think that's also playing into whatI'm calling the epidemic of rudeness.
(12:13):
The animal welfare world becauseso many people have animals they
wanna return, but we're all full.
So people are getting upset and acting outtowards us in the animal welfare industry.
And a lot of people I know from othershelters in the state are actually
leaving the industry because it's tooemotionally tolling for them right now.
Cliff Duvernois (12:29):
Sweet Moses.
Yeah.
There's a whole othercomponent right there.
What I'd like to do is I would liketo, cuz you were talking before about
the personality that your cats have.
Yeah.
So what I'd like to do is I wantto talk to you about how you
are leveraging social media.
To get your message out andto connect with your audience.
Cuz one of the things that youdo really well on Facebook,
(12:50):
I read your post whenever you'vegot, you know, hi, my name is Timmy.
Yes,
and there's some post about, oh, wellI like kids and I like to snuggle.
And you really do an excellent job ofpainting a personality around a cat.
Not only to, you know, let peopleknow that, hey, there's, there's
this, really cute cat here.
But also get the message out to peoplethat if they are looking for a cat, here's
(13:12):
one that might be a good fit for you.
First off, how did you come up withthe idea to start giving your, your
cats these, I guess, backs, stories
on
social.
Abby Engel (13:20):
I call
'em resumes.
So the idea was, I don't know if you'veseen the little like documents I make
where it actually looks like a job resume,but every cat at the rescue gets a true
quote unquote job resume made for themthat I handmake and takes a really long
time , but I do it and it's a resumefor them to be your new house cat.
Um, I came up with itbecause, . I went to school.
Well, my minor is professionaltechnical writing, like I said.
(13:43):
And one of the things that we did in thatwas make resumes, and that was my favorite
part of Ptw when I was in college.
I love making resumes.
All of my friends, like ask me tohelp them make their resumes because
it's like a secret love of mine.
So I'm like, heck yeah.
I wanna make resumes all, all the time.
I love doing this, so I'mgonna make 'em for the cats
and
I.
Personalize it and make it all cute,which is what I love to do, but I also
(14:05):
get to do it about an animal that I love.
I don't think a lot of people knowhow long an animal is with us before
they go up for adoption, but allthe animals have to be quarantined
for at least 10 days before theycan even be considered or moved.
And I don't put them up for adoption.
Oh, 10 days is up.
They're up for adoption.
I move them out of our isolationroom at that point, and I wait until
they're comfortable in their newenvironment, whether that's a cage or
(14:26):
free room, room, something like that,before I put them up for adoption.
So I usually know themfor at least a month
before.
And in that month I'm interacting withthem from the state of, they're absolutely
terrified, hissing, growling, hidingwhen they arrive to their crawling all
over my lap and cuddling on day 30.
So I get to know their personality a lot.
I know their backstory cuzI'm the one that took them in.
(14:48):
So I can tell you where they came from.
I can tell you why they were surrendered.
I know their personality becauseI've been the one that's working
with them every day on socializing.
And I can.
them, interact with the other cats.
Oh my gosh.
They love the other cats.
Okay.
They'll do great in ahome with other cats.
You mentioned I do have some pairs.
It's very obvious which onesdon't want to leave each other.
So when you see that happen,I can say like, okay, these
(15:09):
guys need to be a bonded pair.
They won't even, I can't take thisone out of the room without the
other ones screaming their head off.
They need to be together.
I think it's just like, you know, whenyou know a lot of people, it's kinda like
asking a teacher, like how they make theirc lassroom seating chart, they kind of
get to know the students and know, okay,these two can't sit next to each other.
I know which two cats cannot bein the same room together, . But
(15:30):
I also think that that helps a lotwith placing em into their homes.
Cliff Duvernois (15:32):
The added aspect to this as well, is it's more than
just putting a photo onto facebook.
Oh, yeah.
And say, here's a new cat bywriting up that cat resume as
you called it, right there.
First off, people love your stories.
because people are liking yourposts, they're hearting your posts,
they're commenting down below.
They're doing everything, whichfrom a social media marketing
(15:52):
standpoint, that's what you want.
You want to put content out there thatpeople are gonna engage with, but these
people seem to get really emotionallyinvested in what it is that you're doing.
Abby Engel (16:02):
Yeah.
I might be, because Ithink it's somewhat cats.
I do think, you know, you bringanimals into something and you.
The animals.
Because who doesn't look a cute cat?
I mean, let's be honest.
Every time you see a cute animal onsocial media, you stop for a second
to look before you keep scrolling.
You gotta, but I also think it's justthe story aspect that I bring to it.
(16:24):
I'm not just here's a cat.
They're fully vetted, they need a home.
I'll tell you everything about them,everything that I possibly can because
I want them, to find the perfect home.
And I want you to find the perfect cat.
And I feel like that'sthe best way to do it.
Sometimes I feel like I get down onmyself, like I don't know what I'm doing.
I'm full imposter syndrome.
I guess I, and I get it a lotoh my gosh, how am I any better?
How, how can I be the person to decidewhether or not these people get cats?
(16:47):
Like, how can I be this judgemental?
I hate judging people and I'mthe one that judges applications
like, so I hate doing that , but.
. Other times
I look at, I read my own bio or I'llread a story that I wrote and I'll cry.
I'm reading my own writing and I'm tearingup and I'm like, oh my gosh, I guess
I am kind of good at this.
Sometimes , so sometimes I feel likeeverybody I feel like feels like that.
(17:11):
Like nobody knows what they're doing.
And I don't want anybody listeningto this be like, oh my gosh, Abby
totally knows what she's doingcuz I'm winging this 100% 24 7.
But if you tell me something works, thenI'm just gonna say, okay, well that works.
So I'm just gonna keepdoing it and this works.
So I just keep doing.
Cliff Duvernois (17:25):
Well, I think for any either business or nonprofit out there,
you kind of have to experiment to findout what it is that's really gonna
resonate with your particular audience.
Yep.
Abby Engel (17:37):
Oh, yeah.
Cliff Duvernois (17:38):
speaking of audience, let's talk about you and TikTok.
Okay.
Because that seems to bewhere you're really shining.
Yeah.
So how, how many peopleare following you now
on,
on
Abby Engel (17:50):
TikTok
You wanna get a live number?
Let me, uh, open up TikTok quick.
So right now we, 219000.8.
So 219,800, is that what that is?
Cliff Duvernois (18:02):
200.
19,800.
Abby Engel (18:04):
Yeah.
Two 19.8 K.
So
that's a lot.
Um, I'm at 5.4 millionlikes on TikTok as well.
And would you believe me if I told
you
I
have no idea what I'm.
That's
perfect.
I truly wing a lot of my TikTok, so Ihave worked with a couple companies now.
Um, but when I started TikTok, justlike everybody else, I downloaded
(18:26):
during the pandemic, I was staying
home.
we were supposed to, butI have an animal rescue.
We can't just not go to theanimal rescue for three weeks.
I was going in not every day, cuzI wasn't working full days, but
still to take care of the animals,to check on them, to see things.
And I'm bored.
I, the phone's not ringing.
I have no applications.
I can't do intakes, I can't doouttakes, I can't do anything.
So I just made a TikTok of the cat rescuebecause I'm sitting in the building for
(18:50):
by myself all day long doing nothing.
So I'll make
a TikTok and it.
People wanted to see my cats.
People had questions, peoplewanted to know more about me, so
I told my story, oh, this is howmy parents started my cat rescue.
Oh, here's this cat.
This is, and I just explainedour rescue, you know?
Oh, they're all fully vetted.
Oh yeah.
Like, no, we're a no kill shelter.
Oh, yeah.
They stay with us till they find a home.
(19:10):
Yeah, we have free room rooms.
They don't all have to stay in cages.
People loved it.
Sometimes I think some people cometo my channel just for the cats.
Sometimes I think people come tomy channel just for me, whatever
you come to my channel to.
I'm just glad you're there.
Cliff Duvernois (19:22):
So let's talk about some of the, the real
tangible benefits of TikTok.
Have you been able toraise money through TikTok?
Yeah.
Have you gained, uh, I don'twanna say notoriety, maybe,
you know, you've garnered some,some real attention from people.
Talk to us a little bit about that.
Abby Engel (19:39):
So there's good aspects of TikTok and there's bad aspects of
TikTok, so I kinda wanna talk about both.
The good is we've benefited fromit in so many ways, not only from
being able to reach people globally,like I have followers from the other
side of the world who send, noteven like monetary donations, but
they'll buy things off our Amazonwishlist and send them to the rescue.
So we're getting.
(19:59):
More donations than we ever havebefore from people all over the
world who have never heard ofus or even know me personally.
They just wanna send my catsa cat, you know, a cat tree.
And we love that and
we
love to see it.
I feel like sometimes there's some peoplewho aren't so nice too, see the internet.
Yeah.
And so that, I feel it gets hard toshow up on TikTok for me, sometimes
(20:23):
I won't post for a little bit justbecause I'm a very empathetic person
and I don't think people realize that.
I do read the comments,so I'll see something.
You know, someone could bereally great bringing, like it
brings in a lot of donations.
So many people fromthis one video brought,
but one bad comment, Idon't wanna post for.
So even though it's benefiting my rescueand my cats are seeing success, it's
(20:46):
i'll, I've cried over comments probablythis week alone, people will reach out.
They don't think I see it.
They don't, oh, she has 200 followers.
She doesn't see my dms.
I see the dms and they're notkind, and I don't answer most of
the, not kind ones, but I see 'em.
So it kind of, The two coins.
(21:07):
I have people from other sidesof the world who are reaching
out, sending donations.
People who have lived left usin our will, in their wills.
We don't even know them, andthey've left us in their wills.
I've had adopters find us on TikTok.
I've gotten to work with amazing brandsthat all of us use every single day.
I've made money myself, not only justfor the karaoke, but people have paid me
(21:28):
for who
I am for.
And I've never a mil imaginedthat in a million years.
But then on the flip coin, I openmy comments and people are calling
me names and saying, I did this inmy video, so I'm a bad person, or
I didn't post, so I'm a bad person.
And so there's both of it.
(21:49):
, it's really helping the rescue,but sometimes it's really damaging
my
self-esteem and my
personal worth
Cliff Duvernois (21:53):
because a lot of who you are.
Is wrapped up in this becauseyou are literally sharing
your
story as
you
go.
Abby Engel (22:02):
Yeah.
I'm not a character.
I'm not an actor.
I'm not
a fake, I think a character.
I'm not a, well, I guess Ishouldn't say a character in a book.
I'm not like a made up personthat this company has put me
on to be their spokes model.
I'm the only employee at Pet Angel.
I'm the face of the place.
I am the employee of the place,and I'm also Akel, not Pet Angel.
(22:26):
I have other things Ido in my life too, not.
Cat rescue related.
So it's really hard for me tolike unravel the two sometimes.
So if someone gets really upset that I amnot taking a cat from them, or I didn't,
I, their application was denied forsome reason, they'll take it out on me.
And I take that personally.
(22:46):
So I've been trying to put up someboundaries a little bit on social media.
Um, like I don't alwaysanswer personal dms anymore.
Um, they have to be directedto like Pet Angels account
if they're pet Angel related.
Just to protect myself a little bit more.
Cliff Duvernois (22:59):
When you were talking before about these negative comments
that were coming in and how it takesa little bit of an emotional toll
and you're, you don't post for a week
mm-hmm.
, you know, you need to take a break.
How do you overcome.
That to get back onto the social mediabandwagon, to get back onto TikTok, what,
(23:20):
what is your thought process that thathelps you to flip that switch to say,
okay, yesterday I wasn't gonnado it, but today I'll do it.
Abby Engel (23:26):
usually
an idea
for a video.
If
I don't have an idea for a video,I'm probably not gonna show up if
I'm having one of those bad days.
Sometimes I'll be scrolling onTikTok at bed and I'll be like,
oh my gosh, I love this sound.
This is what I could do with it.
Save it.
And I make it the next day.
And then it just, I'm okay Again,there's no bad comments on that video.
I'm okay.
It, I think it depends onthe comments though too.
If it was something really bad, if they'vebeen continuing, I'm gonna probably
(23:50):
not post for a little bit because Iwant that person to kind of forget I
existed before I start posting again.
I do block people, but peopledon't care if they make a
second profile and find you.
There's hate watchers.
They count as a view, so thanks forthe view, but sometimes I wish people
wouldn't leave comments that are mean.
If you don't say anything, ifyou don't have anything nice to
say, don't say anything at all.
Should be a rule still.
Cliff Duvernois (24:11):
so TikTok has actually had a lot more benefits.
For the rescue.
Yes.
And there's definitely has been abenefit to, you know, for fair lack
of a better term, for being fearless.
Abby Engel (24:23):
Yeah.
To
go
Cliff Duvernois (24:24):
TikTok, cuz not a lot of people would do that.
Abby Engel (24:26):
I don't know if I'm fearless because I do think the hate is pretty
hard sometimes and I do privately takeit pretty hard, but, I still show up
because it's my job because no oneelse is gonna do it for the cats.
So if I don't like, we'lllose all of these followers.
We lose all of these donors andI feel like it's kind of riding
on me to, to keep 'em entertainedso they'll keep helping us.
(24:49):
I think that it's like a give serve.
I give them the cat content,they give us donations,
but
it
works out.
There are some really great people.
I've met some people on TikTokthat I wouldn't have known
otherwise, and now they're like,I've never met them in real life.
We just talk on social mediabecause they've become great
supporters of our rescue.
I'm sure they're listening tothis cuz they support us so much.
(25:09):
They'll listen to anything I post.
Anything that has to do with thecat rescue, they'll be there.
So I'm sure they, they're listening.
They're like, yeah.
Oh
my
god,
that's
me.
It is you.
Hi Stephanie
Cliff Duvernois (25:16):
me.
Oh,
Abby Engel (25:19):
Oh, that's so wonderful.
Being able to createrelationships media like that.
Yeah.
And I don't even know them.
They just love our rescue, love whatwe do, and they're there for us.
And I mean, we had a, I have twocats, their names Sonny and Bunny last
year.
They had
to have, they have.
I think
it's pronounced
periodontal disease.
And they had to have fulldental work done, teeth pulled.
(25:40):
Bunny got most of his teeth pulledduring the surgery and we found
out they had it and they neededthe surgery pretty quickly.
And we did not have the money for two catsto get dental surgery at the same time.
And I made a TikTok about it and bythe end of the day, I had enough money
for both of those cats to get their
dental surgery
plus
more.
So
I'm able to get things.
(26:00):
Never before were possible
because of TikTok.
Like Bunny and Sunny would've had towait months before for us to raise enough
money for them to get that surgery, andI was able to schedule it the next day.
I don't really wanna talk about f I Pa lot because it's really complex and
I definitely cry when I talk about it.
But f i p is a really bad fataldisease that is kind of coming up
in the cat rescue world right now.
(26:21):
If you're worrying about it foryour animal, you don't need to.
It usually only happens when there'sa lot of animals that are together.
It has to do with the feline coronavirus.
It's very complex.
You can look it up if you want.
It's called F i P but it hitour rescue two years ago.
Cliff Duvernois (26:35):
ago.
Oh,
Abby Engel (26:36):
And we lost a couple cats to it.
A few of them are very dear to my heart.
My bottle feed babies, my, that eyebottle fed had 'em, um, I lost one
of them and two of them are now ouroffice cats there, f i p survivors.
But because of TikTok, Ibelieve those cats survived.
F i p.
because I wouldn't have beenable to afford the medication.
It is so, so expensive.
(26:58):
We currently have a cat who hasf i p, she's in foster care.
She is on the medication, but it's veryexpensive and I don't think we'd be able
to even do this medication and save theirlives if I didn't have TikTok followers
who
are
giving
us
views, which is giving us donations.
Cliff Duvernois (27:13):
So I think it's safe to say that making that
investment into creating theselittle short videos on TikTok,
creating
this
content,
sharing the
story, has
paid off
for
you in
spades.
Abby Engel (27:23):
TikTok has saved cat's lives for sure, at my cat rescue, and
I don't think that people realize it.
Like, I don't think, when peoplewatch my TikTok, they're like, oh,
I just, I'm making a difference.
But you are like, you truly are.
When people leave, like acomment that spikes the video
when people
like
the
video
that spikes the video,
like all
of
it's
helping.
I don't think yeah, just
(27:43):
watching
it, it helps.
I don't joke when I saylike a dollar donation.
If you make $1 donation on Facebook, weget that whole donation from Facebook.
They don't take a portion ofa donation made through there.
So that, or like PayPal or somethinglike that, that $1 is making a huge
difference because you know, 50 peoplecan make a $1 donation and that's $50.
So I don't think people realize like,yeah, you know, one view, one full,
(28:05):
watching a TikTok on one full videomight give them 1 cent, but that's
5,000 people doing that at once.
That's.
Money in
an hour.
So it helps
and
everything
helps.
And I, I appreciate TikTok.
I really do.
I know I was talking trash on it.
Sometimes it really is hard sometimesto just show up on it every day,
but I'm finding ways to manage it.
(28:25):
One thing
I have
been doing
is Bulk making my tos so Idon't have to show up on TikTok
every day to make a video.
I can just make four in one dayand then I don't have to make a
video for three days, and that's
been helping me a lot.
Yes.
Don't have to get myself fully ready andshow up on camera when I'm not feeling it.
Cliff Duvernois (28:43):
please.
Certainly.
Abby, for our audience, if anybody'slistening to this and they want to
connect with you, learn more about Petangel adoption, maybe even find you on
tikTok and leave you a nice comment,
, Abby Engel: Yes, please.
So I am Ace Engel, which is just a C EE N G E L on all social media platforms.
And then Pet Angel adoption isjust pet angel adoption on TikTok.
(29:07):
It's just me.
Pet Angel does not have their own TikTok.
It's my TikTok.
We are one , which is just the Ace angle.
Um, and then on Facebook it's justPet Angel, cat Adoption and Rescue.
I don't use my personal Facebook for likecat stuff, so don't look me up on there.
Just look up Pet Angel's account.
I'm the one that answerseverything on there.
And for our audience, you can go to total michigan.com.
Click on Abby's interview andget all the links that she
(29:28):
shared with us today in the show.
And please take a moment todonate to their great cause.
If you are interested in havingthese stories sent directly to
your inbox, head over to ourwebsite@totalmichigan.com slash join.
Give us your email and we'll send youour top five interviews along with the
powerful lessons that I've learned alongthe ways talking to these people that
(29:51):
are doing really extraordinary things.
You'll also get an invitation to joinour private Facebook group, as well
as Advanced notice of upcoming guestsand great behind the scenes stories.
Once again, that's totalmichigan.com/join, and I'll
catch you in the next episode.
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