March 8, 2024 • 49 mins
Dawna Hetzler brings her unique blend of real estate savvy and ministry zeal to our latest heart-to-heart, delving into her inspiring tale and the wisdom nestled in the pages of her book "Free to Receive." Each chapter of our conversation unravels the complexities of human connection, with Dawna’s personal anecdotes offering a beacon of light for navigating marriage and the importance of allowing ourselves the gift of vulnerability.
Delving deeper, we broach the topic of setting boundaries in our relationships. Dawna offers wisdom on the practice of what to receive, teaching us to set limits on what we allow into our lives, whether it's negative comments or burdensome tasks. She highlights how this practice not only safeguards our emotional well-being but also ensures we remain true to our values.
In the end, this episode isn't just about sharing stories — it is about the golden threads of wonderment and divine purpose that run through our life. Whether discussing relationships or personal growth, Dawna’s insights offer a compass for those navigating the high seas of life. It's a reminder that by listening deeply, setting boundaries, and embracing the art of communication, we can all craft a life story that resonates with faith, hope, and potential.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome to Ordinary People, extraordinary Things.
I'm your host, nancy, and I getto talk to people just like you
about real life stories,stories of faith and hope.
If this podcast is helpful toyou, please subscribe, please
share, please give us a goodrating and tell your friends
about Ordinary People,extraordinary Things.
(00:23):
Well, welcome to OrdinaryPeople, extraordinary Things.
I'm here with my friend Donna.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
Welcome.
Thank you, nancy, for having me.
Speaker 1 (00:32):
It's so good to be in your presence again, I know
it's been a long time, but we'veknown each other for many years
.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
Yes, I don't want to date you, just many years.
Speaker 1 (00:41):
A long time.
Yeah, I've been able to readyour books and go to some of
your conferences.
Yes, you're an amazing realtor.
I mean, we could just go on andon about your list of
qualifications.
Am I blushing?
Speaker 2 (00:56):
No, I have fun with it.
I love what I do.
And real estate obviouslyallows me the flexibility to do
ministry and to speak into thelives of others and what God has
gifted me to do.
So it all ties together andit's good.
Speaker 1 (01:11):
Yes.
So for someone who doesn't knowyou, though, what are three
words or phrases that you woulduse to describe?
Speaker 2 (01:18):
yourself.
Oh, that's a good question.
Okay, let's see if I can narrowit to three Encourager I am an
encourager, yes, I'm a sunshinegirl and I'm a lover of dog
kisses.
Speaker 1 (01:30):
Oh, that's awesome, that's awesome.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
Okay, so you have dogs.
Yes, I have Huskies.
Speaker 1 (01:36):
Nice yes.
Speaker 2 (01:39):
Rescues and I just rescued a little three year old
Husky who I was calling MrCrinkles because he was just
like Godzilla to my female andjust so cranky with her and
we've always had happy go luckyHuskies.
So we're like oh my gosh, whatdid we do?
We adopted this like Godzilladog, but they've adjusted now
and they're okay, so anyways.
I've got Maya and Maverick andMaverick is on my new edition,
(02:01):
so nice yeah, and you said youlove sunshine.
Yes, yes, I love sunshine, Ilove Colorado, I love our Rocky
Mountains, but I also love thehumidity of Florida.
So I kind of go back and forth.
Speaker 3 (02:14):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (02:16):
And I've been here in Colorado for 30 years.
But I'm a little over the coldand snow, especially after this
last few weeks of coldtemperature.
So, anyways, I would prefer thesunshine, and Colorado does
afford a lot of sunshine.
Speaker 1 (02:30):
It does have the sunshine, yes, not always the
warm, uh huh yes.
So I enjoy our summers here forcertain people, yay, good.
Well, the funny thing is that Iactually wanted my first
podcast with ordinary people,extraordinary things to be about
marriage.
Yes, and I'm into our 60s asfar as episodes, and God has
(02:53):
said no until now.
So I am so excited to be havingthis conversation with you and
I think that this is so needed.
I think that there's a lot ofmarriages that are struggling or
have struggled, and but it'salso it's hard to be vulnerable
in that situation For certain.
(03:13):
Yeah, so I appreciate yousaying you'd come on and talk.
Speaker 2 (03:18):
Of course, and you know, when I wrote for you to
receive, it wasn't necessarilygeared towards a marriage book,
but it really has transformedinto like relationships and
marriage.
Right, and you know how do youreceive things, how do you
release things, how do you blockthings so they don't come into
your soul, and it just appliesto every type of relationship
(03:38):
that you have.
But it's interesting how Godhas really, you know, allowed me
to share my journey, and mymarriage too, throughout this
book and how he's used it onthat platform, right, and so
nice also that your husband,dave, has allowed that to be a
part of it too.
Speaker 1 (03:54):
Right, because you can't really share His story,
right.
Speaker 2 (03:58):
Unless he says okay.
Speaker 1 (04:00):
Right, right.
So there's just so many facetsthat come into this.
So we were talking about.
You said free to receive, andit's a book that you wrote and
if I could, I had a.
I did mark it up a lot, but Icame with just a couple of
things that I really Good.
I said this is your words.
Obviously I'm hoping thatthrough my story, you'll
(04:22):
discover what I did a better wayto know what truly matters and
how to live from that place.
So, like you said, even ifyou're not married hopefully
you're not struggling I thinkyou can still get something from
our conversation.
Obviously that it's not justabout marriage, but
relationships and and receivingand letting go and things like
that.
(04:42):
But what I loved about that isthe podcast is all about faith
and hope.
So you're saying hope and thenthe stories.
Obviously, that this is whatit's all about is if we can tell
our story, if we can sharewhat's God doing in our life, we
can help one another.
Speaker 2 (04:57):
Absolutely so, and that's, you know, is not the air
and the grass put us on is tohelp each other.
Speaker 1 (05:02):
Yes, through this journey of life.
Speaker 2 (05:04):
So, yes, it's.
It's all about hope and beingable to, no matter where you're
at in your relationship or ifyou have a relationship, maybe
you're single and it's justworking through relationships in
your daily life, or maybeyou're waiting to get married or
you've been through a divorceor you're on multiple marriages
or you're struggling in yourmarriage.
(05:25):
Doesn't matter where you're at.
The messages of hope and thatif you can receive yourself and
that's what we'll get into youfirst then you're able to be
strong and healthy enough tojourney on and have a healthy
relationship.
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (05:41):
I can see why you're a professional speaker and maybe
I'm going too fast, but again,hearing your book and I'm taken
from a couple pages 18 and 19you said I had to take
responsibility for my half ofthe muck, and then later I
realized that somewhere alongthe line he wasn't the only one
who'd given up.
I'd given up on us too, andwhat I guess I liked about that,
(06:04):
and you kind of already talkedabout it, was the responsibility
, or no matter where you aremost of the time, there's
something that we can do, right,even if it's even if it's like
I had no part in this and all ofthis was on me then, but
there's still something that wecan probably do to get ourselves
(06:27):
out or reframe our mind, orsomething like that.
Speaker 2 (06:30):
Yes, looking at it from different lenses, for sure,
and perhaps I should start witha little background about David
and I and maybe that would laysome groundwork.
Speaker 1 (06:42):
Yeah great.
Speaker 2 (06:43):
So David and I are high school sweethearts.
We met in high school togetherand we got married in 89.
And we met in California andthen we decided we were going to
make the transition to Coloradoin 93.
So we moved to Colorado and hewas running a framing company
where he'd frame houses, and aswe continue to grow and grow our
(07:07):
businesses, he became a customhome builder.
I got my real estate licenseand so we teamed up and we were
this incredible partnership thatjust grew together and at the
height of our career, when wehad various high-end custom
homes, various plots and landsto build more homes for our
clientele, 2008 struck, disasterhit, and so we were stuck with
(07:32):
all these homes and we werewatching things in the economy
the stock market crash and we'rewatching this future that we
built for ourselves at a veryyoung age slipped through our
fingers like sand and as we'rewatching our finances and our
properties slip away, as so manypeople did during that time,
(07:55):
the worst part of the journeywas seeing David lose his
identity, and so he began todetach from life.
If I'm not a builder, who am I?
And I went from having thisdreamer who was focused, and he
was my leader.
He was our spiritual leader andknew where we were going in
life, and although I'm a prettygood, positive and strong
(08:19):
personality, I knew where wewere going in life too, but he
was my lead in all of this, andso to watch him transform from a
200-pound man slipping to 160pounds, just darkness filled him
.
That was the toughest part ofthe journey.
So, as that stretched on, godstepped me up into a position
that I never thought I was ableto be in, and that's to lead not
(08:42):
only financially andspiritually, but everything I
could possibly do to help.
David just didn't work in thatleadership position.
So then, from there, afteralmost a decade, my darkest hour
hit in 2017, that long stretchbetween Christmas and New Year's
when David had said I feeldisconnected from you and I
(09:04):
don't know where we stand in ourmarriage, and so at that point.
Speaker 1 (09:09):
Wow, I mean, you kind of said that, but I can't
imagine the like.
Oh, because you've been marriedfor a very long time.
At this point, right.
I mean not just like two yearsor yes.
Speaker 2 (09:21):
Yes, yes, so we're weighing into our marriage and
so all the emotions you canimagine of anger, and just how
could you do this and how couldyou say this, and how could we
be here, and all this strivingfor what you know, and so it was
just very it put me into a darkspace, and so that kind of
lands us onto your question.
(09:42):
You know as to why I was in thespot that I was in and we found
ourselves entering therapy forthe very first time, and the
hardest thing about that is youthink that you've got this
perfect relationship, you know,or high school sweethearts, and
you don't want to look at themuck.
That has happened over theyears and while we worked
(10:03):
professionally and we do have agreat relationship, there's
stuff that came in from ourchildhood and you know, things
that we just brought both of usbrought to the relationship,
that we had no idea about and wejust did our life together.
And until you get in with aprofessional and really pull
these things apart, we didn'tknow.
And so we went in, I think,scared to death because we
(10:26):
didn't know, and I had to holdour relationship in open hands,
not knowing if it was going towork out, and that was very
scary for both of us.
Speaker 1 (10:37):
Right.
Did you go into marriagecounseling together or
separately, or how did that?
Speaker 2 (10:41):
work?
That's a good question.
Yes, we started together andthen we were both so emotionally
charged she had to separate usand do individual therapy and
then bring us back, you know, acouple months into it.
Ok, so it was quite a processof you know, about a year and a
half that we really workedthrough things.
But we had a lot of stuff as weall do.
We just sometimes don't see itand I had to take ownership.
(11:06):
You know, I went into thetherapy sessions with this idea
of, ok, well, david'sdisconnected from me and you
know he's got to change it.
We got to figure this out.
And then, you know, I startedto peel back the layers and see
that I brought a lot of stuff tothe relationship as well, and
so I had to just fix me, becausethat's the only person that I
can change and that's the onlything that I can do is make
(11:29):
myself right and then see if therelationship, you know,
continues from there.
And so that's where we landed.
Wow, yeah, that's brave it is.
It is brave.
I think that's a very good wordto say, because so many of us
don't want to go get help.
And that's one of the things Italk about in the book.
A free to receive is it's sohard to ask for help, even if
(11:52):
it's just like hey, I need youto bring me dinner because I'm
struggling right now or I'm notfeeling well.
Asking a friend to help outwith dinner or to receive a
compliment even the basic littlestuff.
So to step into therapy is likenow we're really asking for some
major help, Right, and that's abig, brave step as you said
(12:13):
yeah, and to say I don't haveall the answers and my marriage
needs help, but also I need Ineed fixing as well.
I need to see, I need to take abrave look.
I might have a chapter.
It's called Brave Enough toPeak, and if you can just start
with a peak, if you can justlook at yourself and hold it up
(12:35):
in a very healthy way, and then,with the help of a therapist,
they'll help reframe that howyou see yourself.
And so I had a lot to look at,and one of the things was some
childhood giants that I broughtin to my relationship, and we
all have our childhood giantsand sometimes their narratives,
sometimes their real things thathave happened to us that are
very hurtful and impactful andchange the whole trajectory of
(12:59):
your whole life.
But it can be small things too.
So I opened my book with amashed potato story and how that
mashing some potatoes and mymom said they were lumpy, and it
led to this wrong narrativethat I took on as a child that
I'm never good enough, and sothat's one of my childhood
giants is never good enough forbeing alone with other things
(13:23):
that had happened with that, andI carry the blame, or it's
always up to me.
So I've got these things that Ibrought into the marriage, and
so one of the first things thatI would say that is vital to
relationships is receivingyourself, being brave enough to
peak, finding those childhoodgiants and identifying what they
(13:45):
are so that when you get into arelationship then you kind of
know it's like oh this is my,you know never good enough giant
, like he's saying something tome and it's triggering that I
get that.
So now I can figure out what todo from there.
So my first set of I shouldn'teven say advice, because I am
(14:06):
not a marriage expert.
Speaker 3 (14:07):
I have been married for 34 years.
Speaker 2 (14:09):
We've been together for 37, I think going steady for
37.
But I will say I've just begunto learn about relationships in
this last almost seven yearjourney now.
So while I've been married along time, I am not a marriage
expert, but what I will say isthat learning to receive
yourself is one of the firststeps, and knowing what to
(14:32):
receive, what to release.
If things have already comeinto your soul and we've got to
let go of those childhood giantsand slay those giants, or if
there's things that's coming atyou you haven't let it in yet,
but you need to receive, not orblock that, and so that's the
first step is getting healthyourselves, so then we can be the
(14:53):
healthiest person we can be ina relationship and in our
marriages, and I love thatbecause I think it's so
important.
Speaker 1 (15:00):
Like I think I've already somewhat said, it is,
and you said it you can't changeanybody but yourself, right?
And no matter how much youwanted to change David and I'm
sure he had things he had towork on, but I don't want to say
that doesn't matter.
But no matter what, like yousaid, no matter if your marriage
was going to continue or not,you still saw that I have things
(15:24):
I can work on to be better,right?
Speaker 2 (15:27):
Not initially, right, I was like, oh, we're going to
fix, david.
But I did see through time, like, yes, there are things that
definitely I brought in and webecame very fused emotionally
and we fit.
And so the therapist did thisvisual of, you know, putting
(15:50):
your fingers together and she'slike you guys are so fused
together and what happens if onefalls, then the other one falls
, you know.
So if I bring you back together, you're going to be connected,
like at the thumbs, and so whenone falls, the other one is
strong enough to hold that otherperson up.
And so that's what was sopainful.
It was like pulling us apart sothat we could see what, you
(16:15):
know, our entanglement was, andthen being able to stand on our
own two feet so we could helpthe other one up in a healthy
way and no one to say I can'thelp you right now.
I don't know why, but I can'thelp you.
I've got to take care of me inthis moment and not be so
entangled.
So that was quite a process.
I don't want to say painful,but it felt painful to be pulled
(16:38):
apart because I didn't know theoutcome of that therapy.
You know the man that I haveloved for all these years.
Was I going to change, or washe going to change through
therapy, so much so that wedidn't fit together anymore, and
that was so scary to me, Nancy.
Speaker 1 (16:56):
So you know, I've heard that from other people as
far as like, well, if I you know, you get married and then 15,
20, 25 years, we're all going tochange right, and, yes, are we
going to change together.
Speaker 2 (17:12):
Right.
Speaker 1 (17:13):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (17:15):
And that's the part of therapy that you work on is
your own healthy self.
And as you step up to these newlevels in your relationship, the
other person is kind of forcedup or to stay put, and then you
have to decide what to do, andso that was the terrifying part
for me.
It's like what if I don't stepup, what if David doesn't step
up to that next level as we'rechanging?
(17:35):
But what we find ourselves inare these comfortable
relationships and in thesecycles that we get into, and
they're just things we do tokeep the peace, but it's not
healthy in our relationships.
So now, after all this time ofworking on it, I can step back
and go oh, there's that oldcycle, I'm getting pulled into
(17:57):
it.
It's comforting, it's easier todo that cycle and just kind of
do our argument and make up andnot fix anything, instead of
really working on the toughstuff.
And so I think many of us findus in that cycle of let's just
have the argument, make up, getback to it, and then you find
yourself in that same danceagain, which might work for a
(18:18):
while, right, but eventuallysomething will happen.
Speaker 1 (18:24):
Yeah, that's really good.
It's really good.
Well, you said you kind of cameknowing what you were going to
talk about, and then God,changed it for you which is
lovely.
That's typical of him.
I'm pointing at the ceiling,Like.
Speaker 2 (18:41):
God, you always do this to me Because I pray on.
Okay, what message?
Because whatever I have to saycan fall flat if God's not in it
, so I always pray spirit showme, and I really got to work on
what is the message today thatGod wants for us, and I was
really kind of drafting that outin my head.
And then this morning God tookme in a totally different
(19:03):
direction, and so it's typicalhe's so wild and crazy and good
and all these things.
But yes, it keeps me on my toesbecause I am very much, as I
said, a leader.
I'm like, okay, here's wherewe're going, I'm going to see
Nancy and we're going to talkabout this, and that's great.
And then God interjects in thatand says hold up a minute.
(19:24):
You're running ahead againwhich.
I'm really good at runningahead of God, and so I have to
remember him, so if you'rerunning side by side with him,
and so hence the conversationchanged today, yeah, which is
good, yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:37):
So what did you feel like God was telling you to talk
about today?
Speaker 2 (19:40):
So first, that first part was receiving yourself and
so just really identifying thosethings, being brave enough to
peek, getting through yourchildhood giants and then,
obviously, understanding thatthe one that you love, that
you're in relationship with,also has those childhood giants.
And one of the powerful thingsthat my therapist did at one
(20:01):
point was she.
She said do you have a pictureof David when he was like 10?
And I said I'm sure I dosomewhere.
And so I found it and I broughtit to therapy.
And she's like when you guysare in these cycles and this
dysfunction, I want you to lookat that picture of him being 10.
And I want you to know thathe's coming sometimes from his
childhood giants, from that spotof being 10.
(20:24):
And maybe you could see himthere and not you know, this
powerful strongman who's comingat you with all this stuff.
And she had this beautifulpicture of a man and a woman and
it's a sculpture, and it's arebarbed sculpture of a man and
woman sitting back to back andthey're both slumped in anguish
and just upset.
(20:44):
And then inside are two glowinga little boy and a little girl,
and on their backsides the kidsare trying to touch hands and
connect.
And so the whole thought wasyou know, if we can just connect
, if we can just see past what'sgoing on, so identifying those
childhood giants and seeing pastthe argument or what it is, so
(21:05):
that you can connect with thatperson and get some resolution
to what you're dealing with.
So that was the first part thatGod wanted me to just share
today was you know, first of allyou got to get a hold of
yourself and know what part ofthe muck you've contributed to
and then kind of identify thatin each other and work through
that together.
So receiving of yourself is thefirst part, and then the second
(21:29):
part is I wanted to talk aboutreleasing and how we release
stuff and specifically releasingcontrol, which is a tough one,
I think, for a lot of us.
But releasing control andhaving the last word, the need
to be right, so kind of hoppinginto conversations a little bit
(21:50):
with your spouse and marriage,and so that's a big one as well
is how do we release thosethings and how do we kind of
have those conversations?
And the thing that God broughtto mind this morning was I was
listening to a podcast and itwas John Maxwell and he's a
(22:11):
communicator, and so I lovethese podcasts on communications
too, and he talked about if youare speaking to an audience,
the power of the pause and howto pause.
And I really thought about howthat applied to our
relationships when we're havingthese heated discussions and
fights about stuff and the pauseand he says, if you pause, you
(22:33):
give up control and let theaudience have a moment of that
control and it gives theaudience a chance to kind of
catch up to you.
So I thought about that in ourrelationships and how we get
into these cycles and these youknow, unproductive conversations
and if we just took the time topause and release everything
(22:54):
that we have to say, everythingthat we have to figure out right
here, right now, let's fight itout, let's say things you know
potentially that are hurtful,you know let's not do that and
let's just pause and take amoment.
And another thing John says isit also allows the audience,
which I'm relating to my husband, to hear the whisper of God,
(23:17):
and so that was so powerful tome.
So releasing some of thesethings and just being present
and listening to your spousereleasing that need to have the
last word control, you know,whatever it is, fixing it,
getting back into the cycle,whatever that looks like for you
, and just pausing and lettingGod whisper to both of you in
(23:38):
that moment.
And what?
What does that look like, doesthat?
Speaker 1 (23:42):
help.
No, that's so good.
Speaker 2 (23:43):
Help okay.
Speaker 3 (24:12):
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Speaker 1 (25:03):
It actually reminded me of we're talking about
marriage, but then we said thispertains to any relationship and
I thought of just last night Iget to home school my kids,
which is super lovely, butsometimes I push too far,
obviously with.
So I was just thinking of veryspecific.
(25:25):
We're trying to get ready for ahistory day and they get to pick
a person in history and theycan dress up like that person
and they become that person andthey give a speech that that
person did or say I'm AbrahamLincoln, I was the president of
the United.
Speaker 2 (25:41):
You know blah blah blah, how cool is that Super fun
.
Speaker 1 (25:44):
Yes, so my son wants to be some kind of video game
maker, I was like, and then myfirst thought was absolutely not
and actually I just said that Iwas like no, you know, we kind
of have this obsession withvideo games, and no, this person
(26:06):
is not important in my eyes andI said no.
I don't want.
Can you pick someone who'sactually done something, you
know?
And I kind of went off and Iwas getting frustrated and he's
like, well, why can't I?
Blah, blah, blah.
And I was just about ready tojust like.
I was just kind of at the endof the day, I was just done, I
(26:27):
was frustrated and I just took abreath.
I felt like I was saying notright now, like this is not
something that we need to drawlines on and you're tired,
you're frustrated.
This is not going to comeacross right, even if you decide
no, he can't pick this person.
Now is not the time for you tohave this discussion, because
(26:50):
you're not in a good place andall you're going to do is anger
your son, put distance betweenyou over something that really
doesn't matter.
So I just said, okay, we'regoing to talk about this
tomorrow, good, and so I justthought that that was funny when
you're like a pause, just likeokay.
(27:12):
And how relevant that was to mein a different kind of
relationship absolutely yes.
Speaker 2 (27:17):
Now I'm curious did he get to play the role of the
video?
Well, it's not still for a fewweeks okay, literally last night
I was like okay, yeah, this isreally fresh.
What happened?
No, this was really fresh.
No, we still have it, this isstill unresolved how fun but,
you had the pause, yes, which,in turn and this is not my stuff
(27:38):
, like I said, this is johnmaxwell stuff, but I just
brought it into the relationshipstuff because it does give that
moment to hear god's whisper,to hear his voice, and what you
heard was not now, yeah, sothat's huge.
And so what might he speak intoour lives in those situations?
Or even if you're not in aheated situation, if you're just
(28:00):
listening to your spouse?
And I heard from somebody Ithought it was very beautiful.
I don't know if it's correct ornot, but I apply it to god and
to relationships, but likeobedience to god, but I heard
the word obedience and I alwaysit's like you know, I think of
my huskies when I'm training,I'm sit down, do that you know,
(28:21):
stay.
And this particular person saidobedience is deeply listening,
and so deeply listening to god,deeply listening in our
relationships, in our marriages,and it sounds like that's what
you did with your son, which isbeautiful so yes so what's the
next thing god told you to tellabout?
(28:44):
so the next thing is aboutreceiving not and how not to
receive things and so settingthe boundaries now, doing things
like, say, you're the main cook.
I'm trying to think of anexample on this, because it was
just this morning.
God threw all this stuff outthis, this and that okay, good,
(29:07):
got it.
So say you're the cook.
You cook for you and yourhusband, the family, every
single night.
And there's one day whereyou're just like I cannot do
this, but you still do it.
And then you start gettinggrouchy with your husband and
you're resentful and you're kindof throwing the dishes, or he's
throwing the dishes if he's thecook right.
And so one of the things issetting that boundary and being
(29:29):
able to articulate, because nowyou know how to receive yourself
, you know things about yourselfand you know when to release
things and when to pause.
And now you can say you knowwhat, I don't know why, but I
just cannot.
I can't make the meal today, Ijust can't.
I know I always do, but I can't.
If I do I'm going to beresentful.
And so let's figure outsomething else.
(29:52):
And maybe, you know, the spousecomes up and says I can do it
or let's go out or whatever, andthat's just a very simple, you
know example of it.
But just being able to notreceive some things.
And so in my book I talk aboutreceive not.
You know there's things thatmaybe aren't true.
You know of you where you knowit's not true and you can say
(30:16):
I'm sorry, I don't receive that,because you know I'm not a
controlling person, even thoughI kind of am, or that is true
about me.
So I can receive it, butreceiving not are those things
that you know in your heart.
I'm not lying about this.
So why are you calling me youknow a liar in this?
Because I know I'm not lying.
(30:36):
I can't receive that, and soknowing those boundaries of when
to not receive things is justas important as when to receive
things and then not receivingthose things that'll break your
values or make you haveresentment or other things in
your marriage that you just needto say I can't do that right
now yeah, that's good.
Speaker 1 (31:00):
What I was thinking was it's really hard to receive
and I think you say this in yourbook is it's even hard to
receive a compliment.
Yes, like to actually receiveit instead of oh, thanks.
But then we do receive thingsthat aren't true about us.
Someone says something and youyou take it just to the core,
(31:25):
even though you don't.
That person really doesn't knowyou or you know that that's not
true.
But that is such a such ainteresting thing about
ourselves, isn't it?
Speaker 2 (31:38):
it is because we'll take some stuff on.
That might not be true, or wedon't want to confront somebody
about something because we'renot confronters, and so you know
we'll just kind of brush pastit.
But then have you ever been ina spot where you get home and
you're like, well, I should havesaid this or that's not right.
You know, I can't believe I letthat get past me, and you know,
(31:59):
then then you're wrestling withit, as we're in a relationship.
If you're like, well, I canrespect your opinion about that,
but I don't see that in me.
Or if you're humble enough tosay I can see I can be a
controlling person, absolutelyyou know, then you can receive
that and say okay, but I amworking on it.
And here's the the ways that Iam working on it or if it's.
(32:21):
You know, if David was to sayyou're being controlling, I know
I can be, but am I in thesituation, and so in a
particular situation it might be, are you calling me controlling
because you know I feel likeI'm being lied to?
That's not being controlling.
That's confronting a situationyou know and what you're telling
me.
(32:41):
That's different than justsaying no, you can't do this or
you can't do that.
So, yes, being able to blockthe things that you know aren't
supposed to go to your soul, andthen being humble enough to say
, okay, I can see that I canreceive that and I need to work
on those things.
There's a difference there.
Speaker 1 (33:00):
Yeah, so you talk about this in your book.
Was it hard for you to write it?
Because this is very personal?
Speaker 2 (33:08):
Yes, yes, I wrestled with this quite a bit.
And a lot of my friends andfamily were like, wow, we just
we never knew.
You know we just so many of uslead a private life and then
others just perceive, you know,or maybe I put out there that
(33:31):
everything's fine and it'sperfect, and so everybody
believes that it is perfect.
But yes, it was a real struggleand a lot of tears, writing
through the journey of, you know, from 2008 to 17.
And still I choke up when Iread the story, or talk about
the story, because it was.
(33:52):
It was a very dark space for me, nancy, in 2017.
And I thought I've lost myself.
I don't know if I can doministry anymore, I don't know.
I had a friend who wasstruggling severely and had some
stuff just before all this cameon in 17.
And I said I can't help youright now I am.
I am so lost.
(34:14):
I thought I had everythingfigured out, I thought we were
turning the corner and David andI had started doing some fixed
flips together.
He started building in 2016again for the first time and I
just I thought everything wasfixed and back to normal, and
then the bottom fell out.
I had already thought thebottom fell out, but it hadn't.
(34:36):
I hadn't even gotten to thepoint where that disconnect
really illuminated.
And so, yes, to answer yourquestion, it was a real struggle
on how to how to approach this,and many people were surprised.
Speaker 1 (34:52):
Yeah, well, when you were speaking, I would just
thought what you even justsaying this stuff could be such
a relief for somebody that'slistening.
Or they're like you know what,it's not my marriage, but it's
this.
Yes, I've gone through this andI thought, okay, we're finally
(35:12):
there.
And then, oh, and so just thehope that you're giving and also
just your story.
You know, you said you don't,you're not a marriage therapist,
but that's okay, you're, youdon't have to be, you're just
telling this is what my story is, and this is what helped me?
(35:33):
Right, right, exactly.
So I'm just praying, you know,that whatever God's asked you to
talk about and what we're justkind of I just said let's talk
about marriage I just, I've justbeen praying that whatever we
say is going to be life givingto somebody, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (35:53):
And we're all going to have dark spots in our life.
There's none of us come out ofthis life unscathed and I, being
an encourager, I want thepretty happy ending.
Speaker 3 (36:04):
I want a comfort.
Speaker 2 (36:07):
I am the biggest baby , with trials, because I just
want this happy life.
But in hindsight, looking backthrough this whole stretch, what
I love most is who God'stransformed me to be the person,
the woman that is sitting herein front of you today, nancy.
I am so much different todaybecause of God's power and his
(36:31):
reconciliation in me not only mymarriage, but in me and
stronger.
And I have been a follower ofChrist since I was a teenager.
But I can't say that I've beenthis intimate with God and I
would have never been thisintimate with God without that
journey.
So, wherever you are, no matterhow dark it is, god will bring
(36:54):
forth something great in you andhe will allow you to share this
and to help others and to gift,you know, the gift of light.
And there is light.
And Psalm 139 says even though Igo through the valley of the
shadow of death, it's not death,it's just the valley.
It's through the shadow and hewill bring the light out of it.
(37:16):
He'll bring you back on themountaintop, he will, but that
doesn't mean from there therewon't be other mountains to
climb and other valleys to be in.
I mean, life is a journey andhe's constantly transforming us
to perfection, and so do I.
Want everything right, yes, butit's not going to happen until
(37:37):
I'm with Him.
So am I dead yet?
No, there's going to be moretrials, there's going to be more
things, but I can tell you andyour listeners that there is so
much beauty on the other side ofpain.
Wherever you're at, whateverthe situation is God's with you.
You're not alone, and he willtransform it.
Speaker 1 (37:58):
That's beautiful.
I was thinking you were talkingabout the Psalms and then you
talked about saying a giantearlier, and I love the part in
your book about David andBathsheba.
Yes, and that seemed like itwas a really transformational
part of your journey or maybe Ijust made that up.
That's what I felt like when Iwas reading.
Speaker 2 (38:22):
Yes, it was because I heard the story.
You know, I grew up here in theBible story of King David and
Bathsheba and I saw it in atotally different perspective.
David and I had the opportunityto go to Israel in 2019.
And I heard it from our sweettour guide, maya, and she just
(38:44):
told it in such a way that ittotally transformed how I saw.
I mean, like the Bible came tolife in Israel.
It was amazing.
But, yes, I wrote a lot aboutKing David because I learned so
much in Israel about that and inIsrael, as you read my book,
you will see that David and Igot the opportunity to renew our
(39:04):
vows and we both had alwayssaid, oh, renewing vows is so
dumb because, like, once you'vesaid it, you've said it and that
should mean everything at thetime.
But that was like this young,naive kid's perspective on stuff
, because we had no idea howlife was going to play out on
God's terms, and so, as it did,we found ourselves in Israel
(39:26):
learning all these things aboutthe Bible characters and David
and Goliath and David andBathsheba and we came to a point
where it was like, yeah, wewant to do this renewal and just
start over again.
And isn't that what God does?
I mean His mercies are newevery morning.
I always say in the mornings.
(39:46):
I say His mercies are new everynew dawn because my name is
Dawn.
So it was very transformativebeing there and learning about
the Bible.
Speaker 1 (40:00):
Yeah, could you quickly tell what you learned?
What perspective did you switchfor that story?
As far as David and Bathshebaand obviously this is kind of
the big problem for David, right, is that he sees Bathsheba,
she's married, he sleeps withher, she becomes pregnant and
(40:23):
then he has her husband killed.
Speaker 2 (40:25):
I mean, this is oh the God, like all of them
wrapped up in one.
Speaker 1 (40:29):
And he's still the man after God's heart.
Speaker 2 (40:32):
Yes, the way I saw it there and you kind of just have
to be there, but the way thatGod revealed it to me there was
that David was quick to receiveGod's rebuke and His love.
He was quick to receiveanything from God because we
know God's got the bestintentions for us.
(40:56):
And so immediately when Nathan,the prophet, can you know,
confront David, he's like thisman is me, this is me and he
immediately repented from all ofit and so just being a man or
woman after God's own heart andbeing able to receive from God,
even if it's a rebuke, whateverit is, you know we know that
(41:18):
he's got.
He's got our best interest, andKing David went on to do some
great things, and so, no matterwhere you're at or what you've
done, there's nothing that Godcan't transform.
Speaker 1 (41:31):
That's good, yeah, receiving God's correction and
love in that, that's right.
Speaker 2 (41:37):
Yes, and he was, he was.
It was almost like he was in ahealthy mindset, even though he
was so distraught about thewhole situation.
But after he, you know, criedand repented and fasted and did
all his things and the outcomecame, he was back up and like,
okay, I'm ready to receive morefrom God and continue on this
(41:59):
journey with.
Speaker 1 (42:00):
God.
So yeah, I feel like you reallysee that and I am kind of
seeing this for the first time.
Is that he?
I think Nathan?
Nathan told them he would losehis son, right, yes, and but he
like wept and wouldn't eat andeverything for a long time, and
then his servants were afraid totell him that his son had
(42:24):
actually died.
And then, when he did, he'slike OK, I'm eating, getting
myself ready, and why?
Because I guess he received it.
Speaker 2 (42:35):
He received it from God.
He's like OK, I prayed, Ifasted and please don't take my
son from me and sadly that was ahuge, huge consequence Like you
can't even imagine.
That's a tough one to take.
And then once it happened, he'slike OK, let's continue on.
So what came to light is he wasvery quick to receive from God
(42:58):
which I love.
I love that characteristicabout him.
I would love to be that, but Irun ahead, I lag behind.
I argue with God because I'mSicilian.
Speaker 1 (43:09):
Why can't I just OK, god, whatever you say, I'm
working on it, though.
No, that's good.
Is there anything else youthought God was telling you?
Speaker 2 (43:18):
Those were the three main things that he put on my
heart today.
And, yeah, it's good, marriageis good.
It is hard, it is difficult andwe want it to be this amazing
thing, full of love and intimacyand conversations and it is all
(43:39):
of that, but it really blossomsthrough the hard winter of
struggle and so that's been myjourney and it's a good one, and
I can sit here today and sayGod is good.
He is good, no matter what elsehe brings coming forward, he is
good.
Speaker 1 (44:00):
That's so good.
And at the end of your booksorry, you didn't even know I
was going to quote you no, yousaid there's always hope, so
don't lose yours.
Yes.
Speaker 2 (44:14):
And I love that.
Yes, that's what I said.
No matter where you're at,cling to God, cling to hope.
He will transform it.
And, like we talked about KingDavid, look at the darkest of
circumstances, I could comparemine to his journey and be like,
ok, this is a blip compared toKing David, but my journey is
(44:36):
specific to me and what God isdoing with me, just as your
journey, and your marriage isspecific to you and God's
transforming us through it andmaking us better, but that
doesn't even though we'redifferent, not that we couldn't
learn from one another, which Ialways love.
Yes, absolutely so.
Speaker 1 (44:56):
One more quote from you.
Speaker 2 (44:57):
OK.
Speaker 1 (44:58):
It said, it's never too late, no matter your age,
there's still time to completelybecome who God called you to be
, and nothing is wasted, unlessyou choose to waste it by not
opening up to receive.
Speaker 2 (45:13):
Yes, I have a lot of wise friends I shouldn't say
older than me, wise friends.
Sometimes I'll hear I'm juststuck in my ways and I've lived
this way long enough and I don'twant the arduous work to
self-examine at this point in mylife and I say, ok, but are you
(45:37):
really receiving all that Godhas for you?
So yes, no matter how old youare, you can always face those
challenges.
You can always look at things alittle bit differently and in
that it will help you to connectin relationships, all of your
relationships.
(45:57):
And so why not?
Speaker 3 (45:59):
Why not journey?
Speaker 2 (46:00):
Yeah, why not?
I'm now working on a book aboutwonderment and on how do you
live in that in an everydaylifestyle by looking through the
lens of wonderment.
And so are we missing momentswith God if we aren't doing the
(46:21):
work and looking at ourselvesand connecting deeper in
relationships?
And so what does that look like?
I'm exploring it right now.
Speaker 1 (46:29):
Oh, that's exciting.
Speaker 2 (46:30):
Yeah, it's fun.
Speaker 1 (46:32):
Well, if people want to connect with you,
donnahedzlercom, correct, ok,and I'll put that in our show
notes.
But as we wrap up thiswonderful discussion, what is
your favorite Bible verse orstory?
Speaker 2 (46:48):
I like the book of Esther, and Esther is it I think
it's 414, where it says and whoknows?
But that you have come to yourroyal position for such a time
as this.
And we all have a royalposition, don't we?
I mean, god has sent us here todo something for him that
(47:10):
nobody else can do, and so, nomatter where you're at, maybe
you look at your circumstanceand you say this is my royal
position, and who knows, maybethis trial was for such a time
as this and this is going tobring such glory to God.
Speaker 1 (47:28):
That's good.
I like that.
My daughter is obviously alittle obsessed with princesses.
Speaker 3 (47:36):
And.
Speaker 1 (47:37):
I like to tell her if you are a child of God which I
know you are, and he is the king, what does that make you?
That makes you a princess.
That's right.
That makes you a prince andthat's lovely and wonderful, but
it also gives us.
We have a job right.
Speaker 2 (47:55):
Yes, yeah, all your son might go.
I'm a prince and a videocontroller.
Mom, let me do it.
Speaker 1 (48:05):
I will have to keep everybody updated.
Speaker 2 (48:07):
Please do.
I'm excited to hear how ittransports.
Speaker 1 (48:11):
And what are you grateful for?
Speaker 2 (48:13):
So many things Reconciliation.
I'm grateful for my husband, myhigh school sweetie, for my
huskies, but most of all, like Imentioned, who God is
transforming me through thisprocess, Because I love who I am
.
I just have a whole differentlook about how God is.
It's not that I'm where I needto be today I haven't reached
(48:38):
some attainment but where he haspulled me from.
I'm so much stronger from thatjourney and I love that and I'm
grateful for it.
Speaker 1 (48:47):
That's such an encouragement, I think, to
people who are going through itright.
Yeah, I love that, I love that.
Well, thank you for being ontoday.
Speaker 2 (48:55):
Oh my gosh, thank you for letting me come and hang
out with you.
Speaker 1 (48:58):
It's been fun and I can't wait to see how God
blesses this conversation withothers.
Thank you, nancy.
So you may be wondering whatdid David do for his history
report?
He wanted to do someone who wasan inventor.
That's what he was reallyinterested in was inventing.
(49:18):
He wants to invent thingshimself.
So he did a little bit moreresearch and decided to be Henry
Ford for the Wax Museum forHistory.
Welcome to Ordinary People, extraordinary Things.
I'm your host, nancy, and I getto talk to people just like you
about real life stories,stories of faith and hope.
If this podcast is helpful toyou, please subscribe, please
share, please give us a goodrating and tell your friends
about Ordinary People,extraordinary Things.
(00:23):
Well, welcome to OrdinaryPeople, extraordinary Things.
I'm here with my friend Donna.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
Welcome.
Thank you, nancy, for having me.
Speaker 1 (00:32):
It's so good to be in your presence again, I know
it's been a long time, but we'veknown each other for many years
.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
Yes, I don't want to date you, just many years.
Speaker 1 (00:41):
A long time.
Yeah, I've been able to readyour books and go to some of
your conferences.
Yes, you're an amazing realtor.
I mean, we could just go on andon about your list of
qualifications.
Am I blushing?
Speaker 2 (00:56):
No, I have fun with it.
I love what I do.
And real estate obviouslyallows me the flexibility to do
ministry and to speak into thelives of others and what God has
gifted me to do.
So it all ties together andit's good.
Speaker 1 (01:11):
Yes.
So for someone who doesn't knowyou, though, what are three
words or phrases that you woulduse to describe?
Speaker 2 (01:18):
yourself.
Oh, that's a good question.
Okay, let's see if I can narrowit to three Encourager I am an
encourager, yes, I'm a sunshinegirl and I'm a lover of dog
kisses.
Speaker 1 (01:30):
Oh, that's awesome, that's awesome.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
Okay, so you have dogs.
Yes, I have Huskies.
Speaker 1 (01:36):
Nice yes.
Speaker 2 (01:39):
Rescues and I just rescued a little three year old
Husky who I was calling MrCrinkles because he was just
like Godzilla to my female andjust so cranky with her and
we've always had happy go luckyHuskies.
So we're like oh my gosh, whatdid we do?
We adopted this like Godzilladog, but they've adjusted now
and they're okay, so anyways.
I've got Maya and Maverick andMaverick is on my new edition,
(02:01):
so nice yeah, and you said youlove sunshine.
Yes, yes, I love sunshine, Ilove Colorado, I love our Rocky
Mountains, but I also love thehumidity of Florida.
So I kind of go back and forth.
Speaker 3 (02:14):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (02:16):
And I've been here in Colorado for 30 years.
But I'm a little over the coldand snow, especially after this
last few weeks of coldtemperature.
So, anyways, I would prefer thesunshine, and Colorado does
afford a lot of sunshine.
Speaker 1 (02:30):
It does have the sunshine, yes, not always the
warm, uh huh yes.
So I enjoy our summers here forcertain people, yay, good.
Well, the funny thing is that Iactually wanted my first
podcast with ordinary people,extraordinary things to be about
marriage.
Yes, and I'm into our 60s asfar as episodes, and God has
(02:53):
said no until now.
So I am so excited to be havingthis conversation with you and
I think that this is so needed.
I think that there's a lot ofmarriages that are struggling or
have struggled, and but it'salso it's hard to be vulnerable
in that situation For certain.
(03:13):
Yeah, so I appreciate yousaying you'd come on and talk.
Speaker 2 (03:18):
Of course, and you know, when I wrote for you to
receive, it wasn't necessarilygeared towards a marriage book,
but it really has transformedinto like relationships and
marriage.
Right, and you know how do youreceive things, how do you
release things, how do you blockthings so they don't come into
your soul, and it just appliesto every type of relationship
(03:38):
that you have.
But it's interesting how Godhas really, you know, allowed me
to share my journey, and mymarriage too, throughout this
book and how he's used it onthat platform, right, and so
nice also that your husband,dave, has allowed that to be a
part of it too.
Speaker 1 (03:54):
Right, because you can't really share His story,
right.
Speaker 2 (03:58):
Unless he says okay.
Speaker 1 (04:00):
Right, right.
So there's just so many facetsthat come into this.
So we were talking about.
You said free to receive, andit's a book that you wrote and
if I could, I had a.
I did mark it up a lot, but Icame with just a couple of
things that I really Good.
I said this is your words.
Obviously I'm hoping thatthrough my story, you'll
(04:22):
discover what I did a better wayto know what truly matters and
how to live from that place.
So, like you said, even ifyou're not married hopefully
you're not struggling I thinkyou can still get something from
our conversation.
Obviously that it's not justabout marriage, but
relationships and and receivingand letting go and things like
that.
(04:42):
But what I loved about that isthe podcast is all about faith
and hope.
So you're saying hope and thenthe stories.
Obviously, that this is whatit's all about is if we can tell
our story, if we can sharewhat's God doing in our life, we
can help one another.
Speaker 2 (04:57):
Absolutely so, and that's, you know, is not the air
and the grass put us on is tohelp each other.
Speaker 1 (05:02):
Yes, through this journey of life.
Speaker 2 (05:04):
So, yes, it's.
It's all about hope and beingable to, no matter where you're
at in your relationship or ifyou have a relationship, maybe
you're single and it's justworking through relationships in
your daily life, or maybeyou're waiting to get married or
you've been through a divorceor you're on multiple marriages
or you're struggling in yourmarriage.
(05:25):
Doesn't matter where you're at.
The messages of hope and thatif you can receive yourself and
that's what we'll get into youfirst then you're able to be
strong and healthy enough tojourney on and have a healthy
relationship.
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (05:41):
I can see why you're a professional speaker and maybe
I'm going too fast, but again,hearing your book and I'm taken
from a couple pages 18 and 19you said I had to take
responsibility for my half ofthe muck, and then later I
realized that somewhere alongthe line he wasn't the only one
who'd given up.
I'd given up on us too, andwhat I guess I liked about that,
(06:04):
and you kind of already talkedabout it, was the responsibility
, or no matter where you aremost of the time, there's
something that we can do, right,even if it's even if it's like
I had no part in this and all ofthis was on me then, but
there's still something that wecan probably do to get ourselves
(06:27):
out or reframe our mind, orsomething like that.
Speaker 2 (06:30):
Yes, looking at it from different lenses, for sure,
and perhaps I should start witha little background about David
and I and maybe that would laysome groundwork.
Speaker 1 (06:42):
Yeah great.
Speaker 2 (06:43):
So David and I are high school sweethearts.
We met in high school togetherand we got married in 89.
And we met in California andthen we decided we were going to
make the transition to Coloradoin 93.
So we moved to Colorado and hewas running a framing company
where he'd frame houses, and aswe continue to grow and grow our
(07:07):
businesses, he became a customhome builder.
I got my real estate licenseand so we teamed up and we were
this incredible partnership thatjust grew together and at the
height of our career, when wehad various high-end custom
homes, various plots and landsto build more homes for our
clientele, 2008 struck, disasterhit, and so we were stuck with
(07:32):
all these homes and we werewatching things in the economy
the stock market crash and we'rewatching this future that we
built for ourselves at a veryyoung age slipped through our
fingers like sand and as we'rewatching our finances and our
properties slip away, as so manypeople did during that time,
(07:55):
the worst part of the journeywas seeing David lose his
identity, and so he began todetach from life.
If I'm not a builder, who am I?
And I went from having thisdreamer who was focused, and he
was my leader.
He was our spiritual leader andknew where we were going in
life, and although I'm a prettygood, positive and strong
(08:19):
personality, I knew where wewere going in life too, but he
was my lead in all of this, andso to watch him transform from a
200-pound man slipping to 160pounds, just darkness filled him
.
That was the toughest part ofthe journey.
So, as that stretched on, godstepped me up into a position
that I never thought I was ableto be in, and that's to lead not
(08:42):
only financially andspiritually, but everything I
could possibly do to help.
David just didn't work in thatleadership position.
So then, from there, afteralmost a decade, my darkest hour
hit in 2017, that long stretchbetween Christmas and New Year's
when David had said I feeldisconnected from you and I
(09:04):
don't know where we stand in ourmarriage, and so at that point.
Speaker 1 (09:09):
Wow, I mean, you kind of said that, but I can't
imagine the like.
Oh, because you've been marriedfor a very long time.
At this point, right.
I mean not just like two yearsor yes.
Speaker 2 (09:21):
Yes, yes, so we're weighing into our marriage and
so all the emotions you canimagine of anger, and just how
could you do this and how couldyou say this, and how could we
be here, and all this strivingfor what you know, and so it was
just very it put me into a darkspace, and so that kind of
lands us onto your question.
(09:42):
You know as to why I was in thespot that I was in and we found
ourselves entering therapy forthe very first time, and the
hardest thing about that is youthink that you've got this
perfect relationship, you know,or high school sweethearts, and
you don't want to look at themuck.
That has happened over theyears and while we worked
(10:03):
professionally and we do have agreat relationship, there's
stuff that came in from ourchildhood and you know, things
that we just brought both of usbrought to the relationship,
that we had no idea about and wejust did our life together.
And until you get in with aprofessional and really pull
these things apart, we didn'tknow.
And so we went in, I think,scared to death because we
(10:26):
didn't know, and I had to holdour relationship in open hands,
not knowing if it was going towork out, and that was very
scary for both of us.
Speaker 1 (10:37):
Right.
Did you go into marriagecounseling together or
separately, or how did that?
Speaker 2 (10:41):
work?
That's a good question.
Yes, we started together andthen we were both so emotionally
charged she had to separate usand do individual therapy and
then bring us back, you know, acouple months into it.
Ok, so it was quite a processof you know, about a year and a
half that we really workedthrough things.
But we had a lot of stuff as weall do.
We just sometimes don't see itand I had to take ownership.
(11:06):
You know, I went into thetherapy sessions with this idea
of, ok, well, david'sdisconnected from me and you
know he's got to change it.
We got to figure this out.
And then, you know, I startedto peel back the layers and see
that I brought a lot of stuff tothe relationship as well, and
so I had to just fix me, becausethat's the only person that I
can change and that's the onlything that I can do is make
(11:29):
myself right and then see if therelationship, you know,
continues from there.
And so that's where we landed.
Wow, yeah, that's brave it is.
It is brave.
I think that's a very good wordto say, because so many of us
don't want to go get help.
And that's one of the things Italk about in the book.
A free to receive is it's sohard to ask for help, even if
(11:52):
it's just like hey, I need youto bring me dinner because I'm
struggling right now or I'm notfeeling well.
Asking a friend to help outwith dinner or to receive a
compliment even the basic littlestuff.
So to step into therapy is likenow we're really asking for some
major help, Right, and that's abig, brave step as you said
(12:13):
yeah, and to say I don't haveall the answers and my marriage
needs help, but also I need Ineed fixing as well.
I need to see, I need to take abrave look.
I might have a chapter.
It's called Brave Enough toPeak, and if you can just start
with a peak, if you can justlook at yourself and hold it up
(12:35):
in a very healthy way, and then,with the help of a therapist,
they'll help reframe that howyou see yourself.
And so I had a lot to look at,and one of the things was some
childhood giants that I broughtin to my relationship, and we
all have our childhood giantsand sometimes their narratives,
sometimes their real things thathave happened to us that are
very hurtful and impactful andchange the whole trajectory of
(12:59):
your whole life.
But it can be small things too.
So I opened my book with amashed potato story and how that
mashing some potatoes and mymom said they were lumpy, and it
led to this wrong narrativethat I took on as a child that
I'm never good enough, and sothat's one of my childhood
giants is never good enough forbeing alone with other things
(13:23):
that had happened with that, andI carry the blame, or it's
always up to me.
So I've got these things that Ibrought into the marriage, and
so one of the first things thatI would say that is vital to
relationships is receivingyourself, being brave enough to
peak, finding those childhoodgiants and identifying what they
(13:45):
are so that when you get into arelationship then you kind of
know it's like oh this is my,you know never good enough giant
, like he's saying something tome and it's triggering that I
get that.
So now I can figure out what todo from there.
So my first set of I shouldn'teven say advice, because I am
(14:06):
not a marriage expert.
Speaker 3 (14:07):
I have been married for 34 years.
Speaker 2 (14:09):
We've been together for 37, I think going steady for
37.
But I will say I've just begunto learn about relationships in
this last almost seven yearjourney now.
So while I've been married along time, I am not a marriage
expert, but what I will say isthat learning to receive
yourself is one of the firststeps, and knowing what to
(14:32):
receive, what to release.
If things have already comeinto your soul and we've got to
let go of those childhood giantsand slay those giants, or if
there's things that's coming atyou you haven't let it in yet,
but you need to receive, not orblock that, and so that's the
first step is getting healthyourselves, so then we can be the
(14:53):
healthiest person we can be ina relationship and in our
marriages, and I love thatbecause I think it's so
important.
Speaker 1 (15:00):
Like I think I've already somewhat said, it is,
and you said it you can't changeanybody but yourself, right?
And no matter how much youwanted to change David and I'm
sure he had things he had towork on, but I don't want to say
that doesn't matter.
But no matter what, like yousaid, no matter if your marriage
was going to continue or not,you still saw that I have things
(15:24):
I can work on to be better,right?
Speaker 2 (15:27):
Not initially, right, I was like, oh, we're going to
fix, david.
But I did see through time, like, yes, there are things that
definitely I brought in and webecame very fused emotionally
and we fit.
And so the therapist did thisvisual of, you know, putting
(15:50):
your fingers together and she'slike you guys are so fused
together and what happens if onefalls, then the other one falls
, you know.
So if I bring you back together, you're going to be connected,
like at the thumbs, and so whenone falls, the other one is
strong enough to hold that otherperson up.
And so that's what was sopainful.
It was like pulling us apart sothat we could see what, you
(16:15):
know, our entanglement was, andthen being able to stand on our
own two feet so we could helpthe other one up in a healthy
way and no one to say I can'thelp you right now.
I don't know why, but I can'thelp you.
I've got to take care of me inthis moment and not be so
entangled.
So that was quite a process.
I don't want to say painful,but it felt painful to be pulled
(16:38):
apart because I didn't know theoutcome of that therapy.
You know the man that I haveloved for all these years.
Was I going to change, or washe going to change through
therapy, so much so that wedidn't fit together anymore, and
that was so scary to me, Nancy.
Speaker 1 (16:56):
So you know, I've heard that from other people as
far as like, well, if I you know, you get married and then 15,
20, 25 years, we're all going tochange right, and, yes, are we
going to change together.
Speaker 2 (17:12):
Right.
Speaker 1 (17:13):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (17:15):
And that's the part of therapy that you work on is
your own healthy self.
And as you step up to these newlevels in your relationship, the
other person is kind of forcedup or to stay put, and then you
have to decide what to do, andso that was the terrifying part
for me.
It's like what if I don't stepup, what if David doesn't step
up to that next level as we'rechanging?
(17:35):
But what we find ourselves inare these comfortable
relationships and in thesecycles that we get into, and
they're just things we do tokeep the peace, but it's not
healthy in our relationships.
So now, after all this time ofworking on it, I can step back
and go oh, there's that oldcycle, I'm getting pulled into
(17:57):
it.
It's comforting, it's easier todo that cycle and just kind of
do our argument and make up andnot fix anything, instead of
really working on the toughstuff.
And so I think many of us findus in that cycle of let's just
have the argument, make up, getback to it, and then you find
yourself in that same danceagain, which might work for a
(18:18):
while, right, but eventuallysomething will happen.
Speaker 1 (18:24):
Yeah, that's really good.
It's really good.
Well, you said you kind of cameknowing what you were going to
talk about, and then God,changed it for you which is
lovely.
That's typical of him.
I'm pointing at the ceiling,Like.
Speaker 2 (18:41):
God, you always do this to me Because I pray on.
Okay, what message?
Because whatever I have to saycan fall flat if God's not in it
, so I always pray spirit showme, and I really got to work on
what is the message today thatGod wants for us, and I was
really kind of drafting that outin my head.
And then this morning God tookme in a totally different
(19:03):
direction, and so it's typicalhe's so wild and crazy and good
and all these things.
But yes, it keeps me on my toesbecause I am very much, as I
said, a leader.
I'm like, okay, here's wherewe're going, I'm going to see
Nancy and we're going to talkabout this, and that's great.
And then God interjects in thatand says hold up a minute.
(19:24):
You're running ahead againwhich.
I'm really good at runningahead of God, and so I have to
remember him, so if you'rerunning side by side with him,
and so hence the conversationchanged today, yeah, which is
good, yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:37):
So what did you feel like God was telling you to talk
about today?
Speaker 2 (19:40):
So first, that first part was receiving yourself and
so just really identifying thosethings, being brave enough to
peek, getting through yourchildhood giants and then,
obviously, understanding thatthe one that you love, that
you're in relationship with,also has those childhood giants.
And one of the powerful thingsthat my therapist did at one
(20:01):
point was she.
She said do you have a pictureof David when he was like 10?
And I said I'm sure I dosomewhere.
And so I found it and I broughtit to therapy.
And she's like when you guysare in these cycles and this
dysfunction, I want you to lookat that picture of him being 10.
And I want you to know thathe's coming sometimes from his
childhood giants, from that spotof being 10.
(20:24):
And maybe you could see himthere and not you know, this
powerful strongman who's comingat you with all this stuff.
And she had this beautifulpicture of a man and a woman and
it's a sculpture, and it's arebarbed sculpture of a man and
woman sitting back to back andthey're both slumped in anguish
and just upset.
(20:44):
And then inside are two glowinga little boy and a little girl,
and on their backsides the kidsare trying to touch hands and
connect.
And so the whole thought wasyou know, if we can just connect
, if we can just see past what'sgoing on, so identifying those
childhood giants and seeing pastthe argument or what it is, so
(21:05):
that you can connect with thatperson and get some resolution
to what you're dealing with.
So that was the first part thatGod wanted me to just share
today was you know, first of allyou got to get a hold of
yourself and know what part ofthe muck you've contributed to
and then kind of identify thatin each other and work through
that together.
So receiving of yourself is thefirst part, and then the second
(21:29):
part is I wanted to talk aboutreleasing and how we release
stuff and specifically releasingcontrol, which is a tough one,
I think, for a lot of us.
But releasing control andhaving the last word, the need
to be right, so kind of hoppinginto conversations a little bit
(21:50):
with your spouse and marriage,and so that's a big one as well
is how do we release thosethings and how do we kind of
have those conversations?
And the thing that God broughtto mind this morning was I was
listening to a podcast and itwas John Maxwell and he's a
(22:11):
communicator, and so I lovethese podcasts on communications
too, and he talked about if youare speaking to an audience,
the power of the pause and howto pause.
And I really thought about howthat applied to our
relationships when we're havingthese heated discussions and
fights about stuff and the pauseand he says, if you pause, you
(22:33):
give up control and let theaudience have a moment of that
control and it gives theaudience a chance to kind of
catch up to you.
So I thought about that in ourrelationships and how we get
into these cycles and these youknow, unproductive conversations
and if we just took the time topause and release everything
(22:54):
that we have to say, everythingthat we have to figure out right
here, right now, let's fight itout, let's say things you know
potentially that are hurtful,you know let's not do that and
let's just pause and take amoment.
And another thing John says isit also allows the audience,
which I'm relating to my husband, to hear the whisper of God,
(23:17):
and so that was so powerful tome.
So releasing some of thesethings and just being present
and listening to your spousereleasing that need to have the
last word control, you know,whatever it is, fixing it,
getting back into the cycle,whatever that looks like for you
, and just pausing and lettingGod whisper to both of you in
(23:38):
that moment.
And what?
What does that look like, doesthat?
Speaker 1 (23:42):
help.
No, that's so good.
Speaker 2 (23:43):
Help okay.
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frame tells a story.
Speaker 1 (25:03):
It actually reminded me of we're talking about
marriage, but then we said thispertains to any relationship and
I thought of just last night Iget to home school my kids,
which is super lovely, butsometimes I push too far,
obviously with.
So I was just thinking of veryspecific.
(25:25):
We're trying to get ready for ahistory day and they get to pick
a person in history and theycan dress up like that person
and they become that person andthey give a speech that that
person did or say I'm AbrahamLincoln, I was the president of
the United.
Speaker 2 (25:41):
You know blah blah blah, how cool is that Super fun
.
Speaker 1 (25:44):
Yes, so my son wants to be some kind of video game
maker, I was like, and then myfirst thought was absolutely not
and actually I just said that Iwas like no, you know, we kind
of have this obsession withvideo games, and no, this person
(26:06):
is not important in my eyes andI said no.
I don't want.
Can you pick someone who'sactually done something, you
know?
And I kind of went off and Iwas getting frustrated and he's
like, well, why can't I?
Blah, blah, blah.
And I was just about ready tojust like.
I was just kind of at the endof the day, I was just done, I
(26:27):
was frustrated and I just took abreath.
I felt like I was saying notright now, like this is not
something that we need to drawlines on and you're tired,
you're frustrated.
This is not going to comeacross right, even if you decide
no, he can't pick this person.
Now is not the time for you tohave this discussion, because
(26:50):
you're not in a good place andall you're going to do is anger
your son, put distance betweenyou over something that really
doesn't matter.
So I just said, okay, we'regoing to talk about this
tomorrow, good, and so I justthought that that was funny when
you're like a pause, just likeokay.
(27:12):
And how relevant that was to mein a different kind of
relationship absolutely yes.
Speaker 2 (27:17):
Now I'm curious did he get to play the role of the
video?
Well, it's not still for a fewweeks okay, literally last night
I was like okay, yeah, this isreally fresh.
What happened?
No, this was really fresh.
No, we still have it, this isstill unresolved how fun but,
you had the pause, yes, which,in turn and this is not my stuff
(27:38):
, like I said, this is johnmaxwell stuff, but I just
brought it into the relationshipstuff because it does give that
moment to hear god's whisper,to hear his voice, and what you
heard was not now, yeah, sothat's huge.
And so what might he speak intoour lives in those situations?
Or even if you're not in aheated situation, if you're just
(28:00):
listening to your spouse?
And I heard from somebody Ithought it was very beautiful.
I don't know if it's correct ornot, but I apply it to god and
to relationships, but likeobedience to god, but I heard
the word obedience and I alwaysit's like you know, I think of
my huskies when I'm training,I'm sit down, do that you know,
(28:21):
stay.
And this particular person saidobedience is deeply listening,
and so deeply listening to god,deeply listening in our
relationships, in our marriages,and it sounds like that's what
you did with your son, which isbeautiful so yes so what's the
next thing god told you to tellabout?
(28:44):
so the next thing is aboutreceiving not and how not to
receive things and so settingthe boundaries now, doing things
like, say, you're the main cook.
I'm trying to think of anexample on this, because it was
just this morning.
God threw all this stuff outthis, this and that okay, good,
(29:07):
got it.
So say you're the cook.
You cook for you and yourhusband, the family, every
single night.
And there's one day whereyou're just like I cannot do
this, but you still do it.
And then you start gettinggrouchy with your husband and
you're resentful and you're kindof throwing the dishes, or he's
throwing the dishes if he's thecook right.
And so one of the things issetting that boundary and being
(29:29):
able to articulate, because nowyou know how to receive yourself
, you know things about yourselfand you know when to release
things and when to pause.
And now you can say you knowwhat, I don't know why, but I
just cannot.
I can't make the meal today, Ijust can't.
I know I always do, but I can't.
If I do I'm going to beresentful.
And so let's figure outsomething else.
(29:52):
And maybe, you know, the spousecomes up and says I can do it
or let's go out or whatever, andthat's just a very simple, you
know example of it.
But just being able to notreceive some things.
And so in my book I talk aboutreceive not.
You know there's things thatmaybe aren't true.
You know of you where you knowit's not true and you can say
(30:16):
I'm sorry, I don't receive that,because you know I'm not a
controlling person, even thoughI kind of am, or that is true
about me.
So I can receive it, butreceiving not are those things
that you know in your heart.
I'm not lying about this.
So why are you calling me youknow a liar in this?
Because I know I'm not lying.
(30:36):
I can't receive that, and soknowing those boundaries of when
to not receive things is justas important as when to receive
things and then not receivingthose things that'll break your
values or make you haveresentment or other things in
your marriage that you just needto say I can't do that right
now yeah, that's good.
Speaker 1 (31:00):
What I was thinking was it's really hard to receive
and I think you say this in yourbook is it's even hard to
receive a compliment.
Yes, like to actually receiveit instead of oh, thanks.
But then we do receive thingsthat aren't true about us.
Someone says something and youyou take it just to the core,
(31:25):
even though you don't.
That person really doesn't knowyou or you know that that's not
true.
But that is such a such ainteresting thing about
ourselves, isn't it?
Speaker 2 (31:38):
it is because we'll take some stuff on.
That might not be true, or wedon't want to confront somebody
about something because we'renot confronters, and so you know
we'll just kind of brush pastit.
But then have you ever been ina spot where you get home and
you're like, well, I should havesaid this or that's not right.
You know, I can't believe I letthat get past me, and you know,
(31:59):
then then you're wrestling withit, as we're in a relationship.
If you're like, well, I canrespect your opinion about that,
but I don't see that in me.
Or if you're humble enough tosay I can see I can be a
controlling person, absolutelyyou know, then you can receive
that and say okay, but I amworking on it.
And here's the the ways that Iam working on it or if it's.
(32:21):
You know, if David was to sayyou're being controlling, I know
I can be, but am I in thesituation, and so in a
particular situation it might be, are you calling me controlling
because you know I feel likeI'm being lied to?
That's not being controlling.
That's confronting a situationyou know and what you're telling
me.
(32:41):
That's different than justsaying no, you can't do this or
you can't do that.
So, yes, being able to blockthe things that you know aren't
supposed to go to your soul, andthen being humble enough to say
, okay, I can see that I canreceive that and I need to work
on those things.
There's a difference there.
Speaker 1 (33:00):
Yeah, so you talk about this in your book.
Was it hard for you to write it?
Because this is very personal?
Speaker 2 (33:08):
Yes, yes, I wrestled with this quite a bit.
And a lot of my friends andfamily were like, wow, we just
we never knew.
You know we just so many of uslead a private life and then
others just perceive, you know,or maybe I put out there that
(33:31):
everything's fine and it'sperfect, and so everybody
believes that it is perfect.
But yes, it was a real struggleand a lot of tears, writing
through the journey of, you know, from 2008 to 17.
And still I choke up when Iread the story, or talk about
the story, because it was.
(33:52):
It was a very dark space for me, nancy, in 2017.
And I thought I've lost myself.
I don't know if I can doministry anymore, I don't know.
I had a friend who wasstruggling severely and had some
stuff just before all this cameon in 17.
And I said I can't help youright now I am.
I am so lost.
(34:14):
I thought I had everythingfigured out, I thought we were
turning the corner and David andI had started doing some fixed
flips together.
He started building in 2016again for the first time and I
just I thought everything wasfixed and back to normal, and
then the bottom fell out.
I had already thought thebottom fell out, but it hadn't.
(34:36):
I hadn't even gotten to thepoint where that disconnect
really illuminated.
And so, yes, to answer yourquestion, it was a real struggle
on how to how to approach this,and many people were surprised.
Speaker 1 (34:52):
Yeah, well, when you were speaking, I would just
thought what you even justsaying this stuff could be such
a relief for somebody that'slistening.
Or they're like you know what,it's not my marriage, but it's
this.
Yes, I've gone through this andI thought, okay, we're finally
(35:12):
there.
And then, oh, and so just thehope that you're giving and also
just your story.
You know, you said you don't,you're not a marriage therapist,
but that's okay, you're, youdon't have to be, you're just
telling this is what my story is, and this is what helped me?
(35:33):
Right, right, exactly.
So I'm just praying, you know,that whatever God's asked you to
talk about and what we're justkind of I just said let's talk
about marriage I just, I've justbeen praying that whatever we
say is going to be life givingto somebody, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (35:53):
And we're all going to have dark spots in our life.
There's none of us come out ofthis life unscathed and I, being
an encourager, I want thepretty happy ending.
Speaker 3 (36:04):
I want a comfort.
Speaker 2 (36:07):
I am the biggest baby , with trials, because I just
want this happy life.
But in hindsight, looking backthrough this whole stretch, what
I love most is who God'stransformed me to be the person,
the woman that is sitting herein front of you today, nancy.
I am so much different todaybecause of God's power and his
(36:31):
reconciliation in me not only mymarriage, but in me and
stronger.
And I have been a follower ofChrist since I was a teenager.
But I can't say that I've beenthis intimate with God and I
would have never been thisintimate with God without that
journey.
So, wherever you are, no matterhow dark it is, god will bring
(36:54):
forth something great in you andhe will allow you to share this
and to help others and to gift,you know, the gift of light.
And there is light.
And Psalm 139 says even though Igo through the valley of the
shadow of death, it's not death,it's just the valley.
It's through the shadow and hewill bring the light out of it.
(37:16):
He'll bring you back on themountaintop, he will, but that
doesn't mean from there therewon't be other mountains to
climb and other valleys to be in.
I mean, life is a journey andhe's constantly transforming us
to perfection, and so do I.
Want everything right, yes, butit's not going to happen until
(37:37):
I'm with Him.
So am I dead yet?
No, there's going to be moretrials, there's going to be more
things, but I can tell you andyour listeners that there is so
much beauty on the other side ofpain.
Wherever you're at, whateverthe situation is God's with you.
You're not alone, and he willtransform it.
Speaker 1 (37:58):
That's beautiful.
I was thinking you were talkingabout the Psalms and then you
talked about saying a giantearlier, and I love the part in
your book about David andBathsheba.
Yes, and that seemed like itwas a really transformational
part of your journey or maybe Ijust made that up.
That's what I felt like when Iwas reading.
Speaker 2 (38:22):
Yes, it was because I heard the story.
You know, I grew up here in theBible story of King David and
Bathsheba and I saw it in atotally different perspective.
David and I had the opportunityto go to Israel in 2019.
And I heard it from our sweettour guide, maya, and she just
(38:44):
told it in such a way that ittotally transformed how I saw.
I mean, like the Bible came tolife in Israel.
It was amazing.
But, yes, I wrote a lot aboutKing David because I learned so
much in Israel about that and inIsrael, as you read my book,
you will see that David and Igot the opportunity to renew our
(39:04):
vows and we both had alwayssaid, oh, renewing vows is so
dumb because, like, once you'vesaid it, you've said it and that
should mean everything at thetime.
But that was like this young,naive kid's perspective on stuff
, because we had no idea howlife was going to play out on
God's terms, and so, as it did,we found ourselves in Israel
(39:26):
learning all these things aboutthe Bible characters and David
and Goliath and David andBathsheba and we came to a point
where it was like, yeah, wewant to do this renewal and just
start over again.
And isn't that what God does?
I mean His mercies are newevery morning.
I always say in the mornings.
(39:46):
I say His mercies are new everynew dawn because my name is
Dawn.
So it was very transformativebeing there and learning about
the Bible.
Speaker 1 (40:00):
Yeah, could you quickly tell what you learned?
What perspective did you switchfor that story?
As far as David and Bathshebaand obviously this is kind of
the big problem for David, right, is that he sees Bathsheba,
she's married, he sleeps withher, she becomes pregnant and
(40:23):
then he has her husband killed.
Speaker 2 (40:25):
I mean, this is oh the God, like all of them
wrapped up in one.
Speaker 1 (40:29):
And he's still the man after God's heart.
Speaker 2 (40:32):
Yes, the way I saw it there and you kind of just have
to be there, but the way thatGod revealed it to me there was
that David was quick to receiveGod's rebuke and His love.
He was quick to receiveanything from God because we
know God's got the bestintentions for us.
(40:56):
And so immediately when Nathan,the prophet, can you know,
confront David, he's like thisman is me, this is me and he
immediately repented from all ofit and so just being a man or
woman after God's own heart andbeing able to receive from God,
even if it's a rebuke, whateverit is, you know we know that
(41:18):
he's got.
He's got our best interest, andKing David went on to do some
great things, and so, no matterwhere you're at or what you've
done, there's nothing that Godcan't transform.
Speaker 1 (41:31):
That's good, yeah, receiving God's correction and
love in that, that's right.
Speaker 2 (41:37):
Yes, and he was, he was.
It was almost like he was in ahealthy mindset, even though he
was so distraught about thewhole situation.
But after he, you know, criedand repented and fasted and did
all his things and the outcomecame, he was back up and like,
okay, I'm ready to receive morefrom God and continue on this
(41:59):
journey with.
Speaker 1 (42:00):
God.
So yeah, I feel like you reallysee that and I am kind of
seeing this for the first time.
Is that he?
I think Nathan?
Nathan told them he would losehis son, right, yes, and but he
like wept and wouldn't eat andeverything for a long time, and
then his servants were afraid totell him that his son had
(42:24):
actually died.
And then, when he did, he'slike OK, I'm eating, getting
myself ready, and why?
Because I guess he received it.
Speaker 2 (42:35):
He received it from God.
He's like OK, I prayed, Ifasted and please don't take my
son from me and sadly that was ahuge, huge consequence Like you
can't even imagine.
That's a tough one to take.
And then once it happened, he'slike OK, let's continue on.
So what came to light is he wasvery quick to receive from God
(42:58):
which I love.
I love that characteristicabout him.
I would love to be that, but Irun ahead, I lag behind.
I argue with God because I'mSicilian.
Speaker 1 (43:09):
Why can't I just OK, god, whatever you say, I'm
working on it, though.
No, that's good.
Is there anything else youthought God was telling you?
Speaker 2 (43:18):
Those were the three main things that he put on my
heart today.
And, yeah, it's good, marriageis good.
It is hard, it is difficult andwe want it to be this amazing
thing, full of love and intimacyand conversations and it is all
(43:39):
of that, but it really blossomsthrough the hard winter of
struggle and so that's been myjourney and it's a good one, and
I can sit here today and sayGod is good.
He is good, no matter what elsehe brings coming forward, he is
good.
Speaker 1 (44:00):
That's so good.
And at the end of your booksorry, you didn't even know I
was going to quote you no, yousaid there's always hope, so
don't lose yours.
Yes.
Speaker 2 (44:14):
And I love that.
Yes, that's what I said.
No matter where you're at,cling to God, cling to hope.
He will transform it.
And, like we talked about KingDavid, look at the darkest of
circumstances, I could comparemine to his journey and be like,
ok, this is a blip compared toKing David, but my journey is
(44:36):
specific to me and what God isdoing with me, just as your
journey, and your marriage isspecific to you and God's
transforming us through it andmaking us better, but that
doesn't even though we'redifferent, not that we couldn't
learn from one another, which Ialways love.
Yes, absolutely so.
Speaker 1 (44:56):
One more quote from you.
Speaker 2 (44:57):
OK.
Speaker 1 (44:58):
It said, it's never too late, no matter your age,
there's still time to completelybecome who God called you to be
, and nothing is wasted, unlessyou choose to waste it by not
opening up to receive.
Speaker 2 (45:13):
Yes, I have a lot of wise friends I shouldn't say
older than me, wise friends.
Sometimes I'll hear I'm juststuck in my ways and I've lived
this way long enough and I don'twant the arduous work to
self-examine at this point in mylife and I say, ok, but are you
(45:37):
really receiving all that Godhas for you?
So yes, no matter how old youare, you can always face those
challenges.
You can always look at things alittle bit differently and in
that it will help you to connectin relationships, all of your
relationships.
(45:57):
And so why not?
Speaker 3 (45:59):
Why not journey?
Speaker 2 (46:00):
Yeah, why not?
I'm now working on a book aboutwonderment and on how do you
live in that in an everydaylifestyle by looking through the
lens of wonderment.
And so are we missing momentswith God if we aren't doing the
(46:21):
work and looking at ourselvesand connecting deeper in
relationships?
And so what does that look like?
I'm exploring it right now.
Speaker 1 (46:29):
Oh, that's exciting.
Speaker 2 (46:30):
Yeah, it's fun.
Speaker 1 (46:32):
Well, if people want to connect with you,
donnahedzlercom, correct, ok,and I'll put that in our show
notes.
But as we wrap up thiswonderful discussion, what is
your favorite Bible verse orstory?
Speaker 2 (46:48):
I like the book of Esther, and Esther is it I think
it's 414, where it says and whoknows?
But that you have come to yourroyal position for such a time
as this.
And we all have a royalposition, don't we?
I mean, god has sent us here todo something for him that
(47:10):
nobody else can do, and so, nomatter where you're at, maybe
you look at your circumstanceand you say this is my royal
position, and who knows, maybethis trial was for such a time
as this and this is going tobring such glory to God.
Speaker 1 (47:28):
That's good.
I like that.
My daughter is obviously alittle obsessed with princesses.
Speaker 3 (47:36):
And.
Speaker 1 (47:37):
I like to tell her if you are a child of God which I
know you are, and he is the king, what does that make you?
That makes you a princess.
That's right.
That makes you a prince andthat's lovely and wonderful, but
it also gives us.
We have a job right.
Speaker 2 (47:55):
Yes, yeah, all your son might go.
I'm a prince and a videocontroller.
Mom, let me do it.
Speaker 1 (48:05):
I will have to keep everybody updated.
Speaker 2 (48:07):
Please do.
I'm excited to hear how ittransports.
Speaker 1 (48:11):
And what are you grateful for?
Speaker 2 (48:13):
So many things Reconciliation.
I'm grateful for my husband, myhigh school sweetie, for my
huskies, but most of all, like Imentioned, who God is
transforming me through thisprocess, Because I love who I am
.
I just have a whole differentlook about how God is.
It's not that I'm where I needto be today I haven't reached
(48:38):
some attainment but where he haspulled me from.
I'm so much stronger from thatjourney and I love that and I'm
grateful for it.
Speaker 1 (48:47):
That's such an encouragement, I think, to
people who are going through itright.
Yeah, I love that, I love that.
Well, thank you for being ontoday.
Speaker 2 (48:55):
Oh my gosh, thank you for letting me come and hang
out with you.
Speaker 1 (48:58):
It's been fun and I can't wait to see how God
blesses this conversation withothers.
Thank you, nancy.
So you may be wondering whatdid David do for his history
report?
He wanted to do someone who wasan inventor.
That's what he was reallyinterested in was inventing.
(49:18):
He wants to invent thingshimself.
So he did a little bit moreresearch and decided to be Henry
Ford for the Wax Museum forHistory.
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