September 22, 2024 • 32 mins
Ever struggled to trust God due to negative experiences with earthly fathers? Join us on this episode of "Ordinary People Extraordinary Things" as we sit down with Neil, our passionate guest and a proud Tar Heel, who shares his transformative journey of faith by forming genuine, transformative relationships.
Our conversation delves into the struggle many face in trusting God due to negative experiences with their earthly fathers and offers insights on how separating divine perfection from human flaws can strengthen our faith.
In our final segment, prepare to be moved by a touching story from a memorable golf game that underscores the omnipresence of God. Neil reflects on how God’s presence witnesses every significant moment in our lives, even when our earthly fathers may not. We also discuss the nature of God’s goodness and the comfort of knowing He is always there, despite our human imperfections.
To wrap things up, Neil shares a heartwarming story from his experience at a body shop that highlights the profound impact of kindness and gratitude. This episode is a heartfelt exploration of faith, trust, and the transformative power of grace in our daily interactions.
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Stories shared by guests may not always be shared views of OPET.
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We all have a story, all of us, share your story. You don't have to have the perfect answer or the perfect life - share what Jesus is doing in your life. This is an easy, real way to witness & share your testimony.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome to Ordinary People Extraordinary Things.
I'm so glad you're here.
I'm your host, nancy Brucher,and I get to talk to ordinary
people just like you about realstories, stories of faith and
hope.
Would you do me a favor,wherever you listen, could you
give us a five-star rating orwrite a review?
(00:22):
This really helps other peoplefind Ordinary People
Extraordinary Things, but alsoif they see a review or five
stars, they know it's worththeir time.
Thank you so much for helpingus out with that.
Well, welcome to OrdinaryPeople Extraordinary Things.
I'm here with Neil Neil.
Thanks for being on.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
So excited to be here today, so excited on.
So excited to be here today, soexcited.
I haven't done I haven't done aguest appearance and I can't
tell you when, because I don'tremember the last time, but it
was good.
All the times I've done them,they've been good.
I just like hosting more than Ilike guesting.
Speaker 1 (00:57):
Well, I'm glad you said yes.
Neil is the host of OtherPeople's Shoes, so we will.
Yeah, we will definitely linkthat, and he was so gracious to
have me on a few weeks ago, soI'm excited to hear a little bit
of his story.
Speaker 2 (01:15):
Yeah, it is.
Your story is pretty incredibletoo.
We were in this deer series andso we're on the verge of
wrapping that up, but your storyabout your grandfather and just
how you're helping people savethose precious memories and how
to how to create those, to me isis really amazing and
extraordinary all in itself, ifI do say so myself.
Speaker 1 (01:37):
Oh, thank you.
Thank you so much.
Well, if people don't know whoyou are, can you give three
words or phrases to describeyourself?
Speaker 2 (01:43):
Oh, three, I'm going to do four because I have a
thing against three, if that'sOK.
People don't know who you are.
Can you give three words orphrases to describe?
Speaker 1 (01:48):
yourself.
Speaker 2 (01:50):
Three.
I'm going to do four because Ihave a thing against three, if
that's okay.
So the first thing I would say,first phrase is husband, so
that's one.
Second phrase I would say isTar Heel, so that's two.
Third phrase I would say ispodcast, and I should have
probably let off with disciple,but I got the order mixed up.
(02:12):
But you can mix them around andmake them however you want,
that's perfect what was thesecond one?
Speaker 1 (02:17):
what's that mean?
Speaker 2 (02:19):
uh, tar heel, I think I think I probably said yeah.
So a Tar Heel is the mascot orthe nickname for the state of
North Carolina.
It is jersey, but I always havea little North Carolina Tar
(02:47):
Heel with me everywhere I go.
Speaker 1 (02:49):
So and did you go to that school?
Speaker 2 (02:53):
I have been to the school, I will say I did not
graduate from there, no, but I'mjust a huge fan.
I became a fan when I was insixth grade.
So what is that?
11 or 12 and just never lookedback, wow, and now everything in
my life and wardrobe and I meanoutside of Christ, is probably
(03:18):
the next thing.
The next marker you couldidentify me with is the marker
of being a Tar Heels fan.
Speaker 1 (03:25):
So yes, all right.
Speaker 2 (03:27):
Thank you for those.
Yes, passionate about it, asyou can tell.
Speaker 1 (03:31):
Yeah.
So in the Christian world wewould say share your testimony.
And if you're not intoChristian lingo, it just means
how did you come to faith, rightyeah?
Speaker 2 (03:43):
No, that's dumb it down a bit right.
What does that mean?
So yeah, that's how did you cometo faith?
That's a great question.
I love that one.
So I I, you know I was a churchkid.
I was an Awana kid Awanabasically like the Cub Scouts
for church.
I remember going to that and Iremember we had a guy in our
(04:03):
group who was kind of overseeingthe misfits, that was, us as as
kids, um, from all walks oflife, by the way, because we
went to church in first Baptistchurch of Carlsbad, which, as
far as I know, that churchdoesn't exist any longer, but,
um, the, the building does, butthe name does not any.
In any event, I had this guynamed John bald guy.
(04:26):
I remember that about him.
I don't much more than that,but he prayed for us every
single week for us to have asaving type faith or a Jesus
encounter.
And I remember towards the endof Awana's one night they had
like an altar call and Iremember going forward, probably
at the age of nine, nine or 10,somewhere in that frame, and
(04:49):
and I knew something needed tochange in my life because John
was very good about telling uswhat sin was and what it looked
like and if we had it kind oflike bacteria or plank or
cavities or you know stuff inour teeth that get on our teeth,
plank, or cavities.
Or you know stuff in our teeththat get on our teeth, yeah,
cavities, tartar buildup, kindof like that he did, he always
articulated it that way and sohe's like you know, it's sin,
(05:12):
you can't see it Just like thistartar buildup in your mouth.
I'm like, was he a hygienist?
I don't know, he could havebeen, but again, I don't
remember.
But he said you know, if youhave that stuff in your life,
you got to get rid of it, yougot to clean it out.
And I just remember feelingjust gross all the time and I
remember I needed something tomake me clean.
Now, what that was I didn't knowat the time.
(05:34):
It was Jesus, till John kind ofarticulated again that out to
us.
But I remember walking theaisle and I remember saying like
a sinner's prayer Some arefamiliar with that perhaps if
they grew up around the churchsetting and I thought, ok, good,
I'm great, I'm good, I'm golden, I'm perfect.
And he's like well, you shouldprobably get baptized.
And I was like cool, I get tobe up front in the big fish tank
(05:55):
with with yeah, let's do that,that sounds fun.
And so I did that, that Ithought, okay, awesome, you know
, I made this, this great stepof faith.
But you know, monday came and I,I still was the same Neil, I
still was the, the goofy, youknow, annoying, bad mouth and
(06:19):
his mom and dad kid and veryangry, and I really thought
Jesus would come in and take allthat away.
Well, there was no real quoteunquote discipleship like I know
now, and to me it was sad.
You know, if I could timetravel somehow, I would probably
pull that nine-year-old, measide, sock him in the face
first because he's probably apunk, but then, after he stopped
(06:41):
crying, I'd probably put my armaround him and just remind him
that, yes, even though he'sangry, jesus has so much more
for him, because at the age of16, he's going to discover who
Jesus really is.
Sad moment in my lifeemotionally, and really cried
(07:06):
out to God, I think for thefirst time in genuineness,
unlike nine, and said God, useme.
Here I am and that's reallywhen I saved my faith, really
kind of became my own and notfrom that Juana kid or the
church type setting that I grewup in.
Speaker 1 (07:22):
What happened at 16?
Speaker 2 (07:24):
Well, I think a lot of things happened.
Yeah, I think a lot of thingshappened at 16.
I think girls happened at 16.
I think, you know, I think forme, at 16, I really truly said
and discovered that I couldn'thave a faith of someone else, I
couldn't have the faith ofpeople I saw, or mentors that
(07:45):
were maybe in my life.
I had to make it my own and,and you know it's this I can't,
I can't exactly put pinpoint onit or put a pin in it, exactly
circle.
You know what I refer to.
You know this, this experienceof like man, your emotions are,
(08:10):
are just all over the place andyou're in a very vulnerable spot
.
And I think the speaker just hitit just right.
You know, again, he didn'tarticulate it with with, uh, you
know, tartar buildup on ourteeth.
No, he referred to it as thecross.
And there are things thatyou've done in your life that
really have separated you fromChrist, that have kept you away
from him.
And write those down and let'spin them to the cross tonight,
one of those type kind offireside moments, and I remember
(08:33):
pinning stuff to the cross.
My thought life, my, you know,my ability to just manipulate
people was also one of thethings I think I wrote down, but
the big one was my thought life, because at that time at 16, I
was I did not have the purest ofthoughts and I wasn't taking
every thought captive like youknow, we so often should, or I
(08:54):
so often should and othersshould as well and so I think
that was the big kind of turningmoment in my life to say, okay,
something needs to be different, something truly needs to
happen.
Speaker 1 (09:04):
No, that's good.
I feel like a lot of people canrelate to that and just growing
in your faith.
And yes, you made a decision,but maybe you weren't quite
there yet and I like that youshared that with us.
You mentioned discipleship.
What did that mean to you?
Speaker 2 (09:27):
Well, I'll tell you, I just really truly learned
about discipleship probablyabout 10 years ago Again.
I grew up in a church setting.
Now, I wouldn't say our housewas, quote unquote Christian per
se.
It's not like my dad know, mydad would do daily devotionals
(09:47):
or, you know, nightly prayers oranything like that, which is so
weird.
But he just didn't do that.
Nor did my mom.
But Christ was in our home Likewe knew who he was, but he
wasn't the key figure like heshould be.
So again back to discipleship.
I grew up kind of in thatenvironment and so I even got
into youth ministry.
I became a youth pastor andassociate pastor at a church and
(10:11):
I just thought, man, you justteach people about Jesus and
that's it, and the kids will getit and that's fine.
And I never again thought of orwas taught and not that they're
wrong for not teaching me orwhatever I just again wasn't
taught that.
And so I grew up and got intoministry where you just taught
kids on Sunday and that was it.
(10:31):
You taught kids on Wednesday,that was it.
You never really did anythingother than that.
You really hoped your talk onSunday and even on youth group
nights would take and they wouldjust blossom from it.
They'd just naturally get it.
And the reality of it is that'snot how that works.
And so I ended up leaving thatchurch for various reasons and
(10:54):
ended up starting at a newchurch, ironically enough called
New Beginnings, where I'mcurrently at, and they have a
big focus on one-on-onediscipleship.
And for the first time I waslike wait, what is this
discipleship stuff?
I started getting discipled byolder men in the church and and
even some of my peers, likehelping me kind of get off some
of my rough edges and some ofthe things that that God has
(11:16):
maybe been working on me that Ididn't want to own up to or
maybe kind of hide or shy awayfrom.
And these men are very bold andand vocal and like no, you got
to get that out of your life.
And so for the first time hereI am getting discipled and I'm
like, whoa, that's how you do it.
And then that then carried overinto youth group, I'm like, oh,
that's how we, that's how wenow minister to kids is through
(11:37):
discipleship.
So to me the discipleship wasthe last piece.
If we're playing like a trivialpursuit, is the last eye to to
kind of complete that circle forme to say, oh yes, we're
finally winning the day on that.
Speaker 1 (11:52):
So yeah, I feel like that's another word that we can
use in the Christian world andnot really know what it means.
Speaker 2 (12:00):
I would, I would agree and I think a lot of times
again.
I think people think they'redoing discipleship, but are they
really?
Are they knee deep in it withsomebody?
Are they walking through themud and the mire and the just
crap to to really dig deep inwith somebody and walk truly
with them and try to help themunderstand and pull them along
(12:20):
with you?
Speaker 1 (12:22):
Yeah, no, that's a good way to put it.
So, um, not having the niceties, but being able to really.
Someone knows who you are andyou know who they are, so you
can refine each other,Absolutely Iron, sharpens iron.
Speaker 2 (12:37):
You know, scripture says yeah for sure.
Speaker 1 (12:39):
That's really good.
Well, you said you don't likethrees and I was.
I was thinking of the Trinitywhen we hear of God the Father,
god the Son and God the HolySpirit.
So I was wondering if that wasone of the reasons you didn't
like three.
Speaker 2 (12:59):
Listen, there's.
That's probably the only goodthing about the three Okay, and
probably the second being youknow it took three days.
You know he was he's.
You know.
Three he's raised to life again.
I don't know.
Three to me it's an odd number.
Obviously, on more ways thanone it is an odd number, but for
(13:19):
me also, three just feels likeit's not complete.
Four, like I'm wearing rightnow, I have a jersey that has a
number four on it.
Four to me feels more whole,like everyone gets a piece.
Three, it feels like somebody'sleft out, so outside of the
Trinity, outside of Jesus'sdeath, burial and resurrection.
On the three days, yes, I willconcede that point, that three
(13:41):
is okay in those environments,but the number just is.
I don't know.
I don't know if there's a thingcalled EBGBs, but I don't know.
Three just seems to be a badthing sometimes for me.
That seems to always come inthrees also, by the way.
I don't know, maybe I'm wrongon that.
Speaker 1 (13:56):
Yeah, that is a thing , Don't they say, like the third
thing is going to drop, yeah,yeah.
Four is my favorite, number two, so I'll throw that out there.
Speaker 2 (14:12):
There you go See, and if anyone likes the Enneagram I
don't know if that's still athing.
That was a thing a couple ofyears back.
I think it's still in somecircles I'm an Enneagram four,
so for those Enneagram fans outthere now you know I'm also a
four, so what, which one is that?
I think it's the romanticthat's all.
I remember it being I don't, Idon't know.
Speaker 1 (14:26):
I don't really subscribe to the Enneagram stuff
anymore, so but okay, yeah, Iwas like I don't know, I don't
really subscribe to theEnneagram stuff anymore, so, but
okay, yeah, I was like I don'tknow what that number is, all
right.
So my question with the Trinityis what would you say to those
who have a hard time trustingGod, the father, because they
don't have a good earthly father?
Speaker 2 (14:48):
Boy.
That's a tough one because forme, um, that's been part of my
story truly, and um, and I thinkthat's the hard part sometimes
is how do you trust the godly,the father, when your own father
was a challenge, and so to me Iwould.
I would counsel them or maybeshare with them.
(15:09):
You have to eliminate dad onearth and you have to try to
remember and try to focus on thefact that God is not your dad.
You know God is not your earthlydad, and that because your
earthly dad may have let youdown, may have disappointed you,
may have left you, but becauseyour earthly dad may have let
(15:43):
you down, may have disappointedyou, may have left you, I have a
good friend named Tom who has acrazy story about his dad never
coming to pick him up and hewould sit out into the box of
God and apply the sameexpectations and the same level
of love or not love.
And I think that's where you,or that's where I have been, I
should say, malformed and I'vereally had to eliminate that
that God is true.
(16:04):
Even though sometimes I don'tfeel like he's true, god is
loving.
Even though sometimes I don'talways feel like he's true, god
is loving.
Even though sometimes I don'talways feel like he's loving,
god is always there.
And I think those three thingsI do constantly have to remind
myself.
Because, you know, I'll tellyou one story in particular that
comes to mind.
I was playing golf one time withsome friends, one of my buddies
(16:28):
from elementary school,ironically enough.
So we're still friends, sothat's kind of a cool story.
But uh, he brought his sonswith him that day, so we were
playing like a foursome and sohit him and his sons, they hit.
And then I'm hitting lastfourth, by the way, because
again I don't like things inthree so I'm hitting fourth and
they hit, and they start walkingdown and I say, hey guys, I'm
going to hit.
So they're kind of away fromwhere I'm hitting, so I don't
(16:50):
hit them.
And I hit this amazing shot,just absolutely gorgeous shot,
and I started walking down andI'm like, oh my gosh, did you
guys see it?
Did you see it?
And all three of them turnaround.
They're like no, no, we didn't,we didn't see it.
I was like, oh man, how did younot see that?
It was amazing.
Like look, it's on the greenright now.
It's like three feet from thecup.
(17:10):
Like, oh my gosh, so incredible.
And so, anyway, they're likejust kind of bugged that I'm,
you know, maybe yelling andscreaming and freaking out, and
so they keep walking and I wasreally disappointed because they
didn't see it.
Nobody saw it.
I saw it, nobody else did, andI literally remember this just
clearest day.
I'm walking down down it was agreat day in Southern Oregon and
I'm walking down and I hearthis voice inside me.
(17:32):
That isn't my voice, that isn'tyou know.
I don't know if it's God or not, but I did hear clearly, very
clearly say well, I saw, it Isthat not good enough and I was
like well yeah ofcourse it is.
And then I, you know maybe wentinto this prayer moment as I'm,
you know, not like dropped tomy knees or you know just
(17:54):
quietly in my head, I startedpraying.
I thought, well, how many, howmany other moments have you seen
that that maybe you just neversaid anything?
How many other moments have you?
I mean because that was the bigthing when I was a kid is, my
dad didn't see the moments, hedidn't participate in the big
(18:14):
moments of my life.
And so this amazing shots, this, you know, whatever, this
amazing thing that maybe Iaccomplished at school or when I
was running cross country andtrack, also in high school, he
didn't see any of those momentsand I was always like, why
couldn't you see him, whycouldn't you be there?
And then I started to think youknow, god's been there the whole
time.
He's seen every moment, and tome that's that's the big
(18:38):
difference Is there's always.
There could always bedisappointment with the earthly
father because he wasn't there,he didn't see, but there should
never be disappointment in theGodfather because he's seen
every moment.
He was there the moment I wasborn, he breathed life into me.
He's been there for everymoment.
So how can I be disappointed inthat when I think back to those
(19:00):
moments.
Speaker 1 (19:02):
That was really beautiful.
Thank you, I hear that a lotand I'm sure you do too, that
it's hard to trust a God thatrefers to him as a father.
You know he refers to himselfas a father, I think Jesus' son,
just generalities probably,like that would be the easiest
(19:25):
one.
And then the Holy Spirit islike I don don't really get it,
but it's not upsetting.
But but god the father, I thinkmight have a few things that we
contextually maybe bring ourown hurt into it.
If our father wasn't great, oreven if he was, I mean, he's
(19:46):
still human right and so to kindof see that differently.
But also I feel like I've hearda lot lately that people are
seeing God the Father more ofjust the Old Testament and if
you just pull out certain partsof the Old Testament it might
feel like oh, he's really mad.
Speaker 2 (20:08):
He had reason to be mad.
He had reasons to be mad.
But I hear what you're saying.
I get flack from my friends atchurch and even the people on
the worship team at our church,because the song by Chris Tomlin
it's one of my favorite songsto hate on because it says
you're a good, good father.
It's who you are.
It's like well, if you'rereally that good of a father,
(20:29):
you would have stopped this fromhappening.
If you're really that good of afather, why isn't this
happening?
And then somebody said to methey pushed on that.
They said well, if he's thatgood of a father and he's not
meeting every single need andwant you have, that makes him a
genie, not a God.
I'm like oh right, so do I wanta genie or do I want a God?
(20:49):
Because, going back to yourthree, if I have a genie I only
get three wishes and that's it,that's all.
I'm out.
But with God there's so muchmore unlimitedness because he's
not limited to the three.
Speaker 1 (21:04):
He's omnipresent.
He's everywhere at once.
Is that what you tell yourselfwhen you get upset with the good
?
Good father is the genie thing,or I don't know.
Speaker 2 (21:11):
Yeah, I.
I just I think, when I getupset with God, I have to again
go back to well one.
Why am I upset with him?
Speaker 1 (21:18):
Right.
Speaker 2 (21:19):
Is it because he somehow let me down?
Is he somehow disappointed me?
And then I have to remindmyself well, if I like him in
the good, I got to like him inthe bad too right.
I can't have it both ways.
I can't say, oh, you're justawful and you're mean, and
you're just this kid on the hillburning ants with a magnifying
glass, right, I have to take thegood with the bad, and I think
(21:40):
that's true in any relationship.
You do have to take the goodwith the bad.
But, yes, I will say thatviewing God from the lens of
through my dad has been truly achallenge.
But again, to me, I have toseparate the two and I have,
anytime I catch myself doing,I'm like, wait a second, not the
same, it's not the same person,it's truly almost like.
(22:01):
I'll give you an example I, inmiddle school this is really
long time ago, so way before mywife.
So in middle school, this isreally long time ago, so way
before my wife.
So in middle school, I likedthis girl.
Her name was Amanda and she wasvery pretty and I took, you
know, took everything in me tofinally talk, talk to her in six
period social studies.
(22:21):
She, you know, she sat twoseats in front of me and it took
me like half the year tofinally go up and just talk to
her because she was, in my mind,just out of my league, just
super pretty, right, and Ifinally did, and she was
absolutely awful to me.
She was it's middle school.
I'm sure I smelled, I don'tknow, but she just was really
mean to me.
But the thing is is that for along time, anytime I met an
(22:43):
Amanda after that, I would putthat Amanda into that girl's
place from six period socialstudies.
That Amanda, that's not fair toanybody.
Amanda that I may meet in thefuture, it's a good thing.
My wife's name's not Amanda, bythe way, it's Elizabeth, not
Amanda.
But my point is is that wecan't do that and I think I've
done that and I hope othersdon't do.
(23:03):
That is we take somebody'simpressions, something that's
happened to us, and weimmediately think well, this is
God's fault.
Well, wait a second, how do youknow it's his fault?
Well, if he's all powerful, heshould have stopped it.
Well, what if he's using it tomake us grow or using it to help
me grow?
Should he stop the growth?
No, well, I like that storythat was a good story about
(23:26):
Amanda.
Speaker 1 (23:27):
What a great way to see that in a different light.
And I also liked how you saidyou have to keep reminding
yourself, because sometimes Ithink God gives us a full.
Oh, I'm free of that and I'venever done that again, I've
never had to think about that.
And other times it might alwaysbe kind of a struggle where you
(23:47):
have to be like oh yes, I haveto forgive this person again.
Yes, I have to again, yes again, and just give that over.
So I appreciate your candidnesswith that.
Speaker 2 (23:58):
Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 1 (24:01):
Well, I love talking to you and I've loved hearing
some of your story and yourtestimony and discipleship and
all these words that we we usein Christianity.
I always end mine with threedifferent questions.
One is what is your favoriteBible verse or story?
Speaker 2 (24:19):
Well, I'll give you both.
My favorite Bible verse alwayscomes back to Acts 20, 24, which
says for I consider my lifeworth nothing to me.
Apostle Paul talking here.
If I may finish the race andcomplete the task, the Lord
Jesus has given me the task oftestifying to the gospel.
That was given to me mysophomore year of high school by
(24:43):
my youth leader because I juststarted running track and I
wrote it on my spikes, my trackspikes, I wrote it on my running
shoes, I wrote it everywhere,and anytime I go to a gathering
where I have to sign my name tosomebody's card, like maybe a
wedding thing or whatever I'llgenerally, you know, scribe that
(25:03):
somewhere.
In fact, our rental house, nowthat we're in a new house, our
rental house actually has itinscribed in the concrete
because we had some concretework done, so I had somebody
actually scribe it in there.
So I don't know if my rentersare believers or not, but
they're going to look up thatverse and go oh well, look at
that, he's testifying.
My favorite story Boy.
(25:25):
That is a hard one, but I'mgoing to pick really love the
woman at the well.
In John, chapter four, versefour, where Jesus talking to the
woman at the well I thinksecond only to the woman caught
in the act of adultery whereJesus is writing on the ground.
I'd love to know what he wrote.
What did he write?
(25:48):
I want to know, I want to know.
So that's what I want to know.
So I know I gave you.
I see I gave you three.
You should be happy.
I gave you three there.
Speaker 1 (25:52):
I gave you two stories and a verse.
So what about the woman at thewell, what speaks to you with
that?
Speaker 2 (26:00):
Well, I think a couple of things speaks to me.
The first thing is one it's thefirst time, as far as I know,
bible people can check me andfact check me and call me I'm
wrong and tell me that I'm okay.
But I think it's the first timehe declares unequivocally no
kind of analogy or parables.
(26:20):
It's the first time he declaresthat he is the Messiah.
You know parables.
It's the first time he declaresthat he is the messiah.
So that's that's powerful to me.
The second is how empathetic hewas to her and even with the
woman caught in the act ofadultery, he, he did not allow
anything to derail his message.
He was there for her.
(26:40):
He was there for her.
To me, I think that's what it'sall about.
Is I got to be there for peoplein some form or fashion?
I have to be there, I have toput myself in their place, and
maybe that's why I do what I dowith my show, is I really try
hard to be in their shoes.
Speaker 1 (26:58):
So anyway, no, that's good.
And you see, even though thosewere small things, he really, I
want to say, discipled thembecause he dove straight into
what was really going on intheir lives Right and I mean I
don't think most of us coulddive that fast, that quickly
with someone.
But I mean he got into thenitty gritty of of what was
(27:21):
going on with them 100 percent,and I think that's the beauty of
of who Jesus was and who Jesusis.
Yeah, that's good yeah.
Speaker 2 (27:32):
What are you grateful for?
I mean, listen, I don't knowhow she's done it.
She's done it for 23 years,more than that, she.
She started doing it in 1997,december 12th 1997, at about
8.20 in the morning.
I am grateful every day for mywife and I know that sounds
corny and maybe cliche to some,but outside of my salvation in
(27:55):
Christ, I am truly grateful forher.
She is the rock that stabilizesme, she is the love of my life.
She is the one I wake upthinking about and I go to bed
dreaming about.
Um, she's just beautiful insideand out and and truly.
(28:15):
Without her I'm probably a bumdown on the street, living in a
van down by the river, lookingfor a motivational gift, you
know.
Speaker 1 (28:33):
I do like the SNL yeah right there.
Speaker 2 (28:34):
Yeah, for all those who are old enough to remember
that, matt Foley, I'm amotivational speaker.
Speaker 1 (28:37):
Yeah, no, that was lovely.
I think we actually need moreof that in our world.
Is people building their, theirhusband or their wife up so
thank you, yeah, absolutely.
What kindness have you shown orwhat kindness have you received
in the last week?
Speaker 2 (28:54):
Um, well, it hasn't been the last week, but I'll
tell you.
I'll tell you about a about ayear ago.
This one really rocks my worldand I'll make it quick, cause I
know we got like nine minutesleft, so I'll try to.
About a year ago, this onereally rocked my world and I'll
make it quick because I know wegot like nine minutes left, so
I'll try to go fast.
So I work at a body shop.
That's my real job, notpodcasting, unfortunately is not
my real job.
But anyway, we had this guy comein, asian guy, didn't speak any
(29:14):
English, and so I was usingGoogle Translate, we were going
back and forth and it was wasreally hot day, cause it was
last summer, and I remembersaying to him cause I have some
water in my fridge, just offcamera.
And I said hey man, can I getyou some water?
And I just remember him handinghim the bottle and him just
weeping.
And I asked him.
(29:35):
I said why are you weeping?
It's just water, you know.
And he said he said I've beenin the country now for three and
this is the kindest thinganybody's ever done for me.
I don't understand why.
And I said well, here's why.
And I told him.
You know, I kind of verysuccinctly, through Google
Translate, which is really hardbecause I'm pretty articulate,
(29:58):
but to have to go to a phone towrite it out to, then it was,
and I don't do that very well.
I'm not very good skilled whenit comes to writing things, I'm
more of the talkers, you canprobably gather.
But in that moment I thoughtman God, you're just really
stripping everything away that Ihave in my toolbox and you're
making me go out of my comfortzone to really share the gospel
with this guy.
(30:18):
But I did, and and I'll tellyou what he came back later that
day and just like, hugged me,wept and said I just I had to
get you a coffee.
I don't even know if you drinkcoffee, but here you go.
You were so kind to me and tome.
That's what it's about.
Every day is looking for ways toshow grace, looking for ways to
(30:38):
give grace.
And I have this little rock onmy desk.
I don't know if you'll use thevideo or not, but there's a rock
in my hand right now that says,in pink, writing grace and to
me.
I look at it every day and Ithink to myself who am I going
to give grace to, and it's notlike a choice.
It's not like I'm picking akickball team, like, okay, I'm
going to get this kid and thenthis kid and then this kid.
(30:59):
No, it's the constant reminderto me to say everyone gets grace
.
Today, like Oprah used to rightyou get a car, you get a car,
you get a car.
Grace is that way for me.
It's like you get grace, youget grace.
I'm giving you grace today andI'm not being selective on it,
and that experience truly taughtme that that moment is to give
(31:20):
grace and to give water whereyou can.
So there you go.
Speaker 1 (31:30):
That's good.
Wow, that's really good.
Well, neil, thanks for being on.
I appreciate your time and Iappreciate you telling part of
your story.
I think it's really going toresonate with some people, maybe
the part about a father, orjust the testimony and the
discipleship, and maybesomeone's like.
You know, I really need to getinto discipleship, I really need
to figure this out, and so Iappreciate you sharing that with
us.
Speaker 2 (31:51):
Absolutely, it's been my pleasure.
Thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (31:53):
All right, well, join us next time on Ordinary People
, extraordinary Things, whereyour story is His glory.
Thank you for joining OrdinaryPeople, extraordinary Things.
I hope that this podcast wasimpactful for you.
I will see you in two weeks fora brand new episode of Faith
and Hope.
Don't forget to give us afive-star rating and write a
(32:14):
review so that others can findOrdinary People, extraordinary
Things.
Welcome to Ordinary People Extraordinary Things.
I'm so glad you're here.
I'm your host, nancy Brucher,and I get to talk to ordinary
people just like you about realstories, stories of faith and
hope.
Would you do me a favor,wherever you listen, could you
give us a five-star rating orwrite a review?
(00:22):
This really helps other peoplefind Ordinary People
Extraordinary Things, but alsoif they see a review or five
stars, they know it's worththeir time.
Thank you so much for helpingus out with that.
Well, welcome to OrdinaryPeople Extraordinary Things.
I'm here with Neil Neil.
Thanks for being on.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
So excited to be here today, so excited on.
So excited to be here today, soexcited.
I haven't done I haven't done aguest appearance and I can't
tell you when, because I don'tremember the last time, but it
was good.
All the times I've done them,they've been good.
I just like hosting more than Ilike guesting.
Speaker 1 (00:57):
Well, I'm glad you said yes.
Neil is the host of OtherPeople's Shoes, so we will.
Yeah, we will definitely linkthat, and he was so gracious to
have me on a few weeks ago, soI'm excited to hear a little bit
of his story.
Speaker 2 (01:15):
Yeah, it is.
Your story is pretty incredibletoo.
We were in this deer series andso we're on the verge of
wrapping that up, but your storyabout your grandfather and just
how you're helping people savethose precious memories and how
to how to create those, to me isis really amazing and
extraordinary all in itself, ifI do say so myself.
Speaker 1 (01:37):
Oh, thank you.
Thank you so much.
Well, if people don't know whoyou are, can you give three
words or phrases to describeyourself?
Speaker 2 (01:43):
Oh, three, I'm going to do four because I have a
thing against three, if that'sOK.
People don't know who you are.
Can you give three words orphrases to describe?
Speaker 1 (01:48):
yourself.
Speaker 2 (01:50):
Three.
I'm going to do four because Ihave a thing against three, if
that's okay.
So the first thing I would say,first phrase is husband, so
that's one.
Second phrase I would say isTar Heel, so that's two.
Third phrase I would say ispodcast, and I should have
probably let off with disciple,but I got the order mixed up.
(02:12):
But you can mix them around andmake them however you want,
that's perfect what was thesecond one?
Speaker 1 (02:17):
what's that mean?
Speaker 2 (02:19):
uh, tar heel, I think I think I probably said yeah.
So a Tar Heel is the mascot orthe nickname for the state of
North Carolina.
It is jersey, but I always havea little North Carolina Tar
(02:47):
Heel with me everywhere I go.
Speaker 1 (02:49):
So and did you go to that school?
Speaker 2 (02:53):
I have been to the school, I will say I did not
graduate from there, no, but I'mjust a huge fan.
I became a fan when I was insixth grade.
So what is that?
11 or 12 and just never lookedback, wow, and now everything in
my life and wardrobe and I meanoutside of Christ, is probably
(03:18):
the next thing.
The next marker you couldidentify me with is the marker
of being a Tar Heels fan.
Speaker 1 (03:25):
So yes, all right.
Speaker 2 (03:27):
Thank you for those.
Yes, passionate about it, asyou can tell.
Speaker 1 (03:31):
Yeah.
So in the Christian world wewould say share your testimony.
And if you're not intoChristian lingo, it just means
how did you come to faith, rightyeah?
Speaker 2 (03:43):
No, that's dumb it down a bit right.
What does that mean?
So yeah, that's how did you cometo faith?
That's a great question.
I love that one.
So I I, you know I was a churchkid.
I was an Awana kid Awanabasically like the Cub Scouts
for church.
I remember going to that and Iremember we had a guy in our
(04:03):
group who was kind of overseeingthe misfits, that was, us as as
kids, um, from all walks oflife, by the way, because we
went to church in first Baptistchurch of Carlsbad, which, as
far as I know, that churchdoesn't exist any longer, but,
um, the, the building does, butthe name does not any.
In any event, I had this guynamed John bald guy.
(04:26):
I remember that about him.
I don't much more than that,but he prayed for us every
single week for us to have asaving type faith or a Jesus
encounter.
And I remember towards the endof Awana's one night they had
like an altar call and Iremember going forward, probably
at the age of nine, nine or 10,somewhere in that frame, and
(04:49):
and I knew something needed tochange in my life because John
was very good about telling uswhat sin was and what it looked
like and if we had it kind oflike bacteria or plank or
cavities or you know stuff inour teeth that get on our teeth,
plank, or cavities.
Or you know stuff in our teeththat get on our teeth, yeah,
cavities, tartar buildup, kindof like that he did, he always
articulated it that way and sohe's like you know, it's sin,
(05:12):
you can't see it Just like thistartar buildup in your mouth.
I'm like, was he a hygienist?
I don't know, he could havebeen, but again, I don't
remember.
But he said you know, if youhave that stuff in your life,
you got to get rid of it, yougot to clean it out.
And I just remember feelingjust gross all the time and I
remember I needed something tomake me clean.
Now, what that was I didn't knowat the time.
(05:34):
It was Jesus, till John kind ofarticulated again that out to
us.
But I remember walking theaisle and I remember saying like
a sinner's prayer Some arefamiliar with that perhaps if
they grew up around the churchsetting and I thought, ok, good,
I'm great, I'm good, I'm golden, I'm perfect.
And he's like well, you shouldprobably get baptized.
And I was like cool, I get tobe up front in the big fish tank
(05:55):
with with yeah, let's do that,that sounds fun.
And so I did that, that Ithought, okay, awesome, you know
, I made this, this great stepof faith.
But you know, monday came and I,I still was the same Neil, I
still was the, the goofy, youknow, annoying, bad mouth and
(06:19):
his mom and dad kid and veryangry, and I really thought
Jesus would come in and take allthat away.
Well, there was no real quoteunquote discipleship like I know
now, and to me it was sad.
You know, if I could timetravel somehow, I would probably
pull that nine-year-old, measide, sock him in the face
first because he's probably apunk, but then, after he stopped
(06:41):
crying, I'd probably put my armaround him and just remind him
that, yes, even though he'sangry, jesus has so much more
for him, because at the age of16, he's going to discover who
Jesus really is.
Sad moment in my lifeemotionally, and really cried
(07:06):
out to God, I think for thefirst time in genuineness,
unlike nine, and said God, useme.
Here I am and that's reallywhen I saved my faith, really
kind of became my own and notfrom that Juana kid or the
church type setting that I grewup in.
Speaker 1 (07:22):
What happened at 16?
Speaker 2 (07:24):
Well, I think a lot of things happened.
Yeah, I think a lot of thingshappened at 16.
I think girls happened at 16.
I think, you know, I think forme, at 16, I really truly said
and discovered that I couldn'thave a faith of someone else, I
couldn't have the faith ofpeople I saw, or mentors that
(07:45):
were maybe in my life.
I had to make it my own and,and you know it's this I can't,
I can't exactly put pinpoint onit or put a pin in it, exactly
circle.
You know what I refer to.
You know this, this experienceof like man, your emotions are,
(08:10):
are just all over the place andyou're in a very vulnerable spot
.
And I think the speaker just hitit just right.
You know, again, he didn'tarticulate it with with, uh, you
know, tartar buildup on ourteeth.
No, he referred to it as thecross.
And there are things thatyou've done in your life that
really have separated you fromChrist, that have kept you away
from him.
And write those down and let'spin them to the cross tonight,
one of those type kind offireside moments, and I remember
(08:33):
pinning stuff to the cross.
My thought life, my, you know,my ability to just manipulate
people was also one of thethings I think I wrote down, but
the big one was my thought life, because at that time at 16, I
was I did not have the purest ofthoughts and I wasn't taking
every thought captive like youknow, we so often should, or I
(08:54):
so often should and othersshould as well and so I think
that was the big kind of turningmoment in my life to say, okay,
something needs to be different, something truly needs to
happen.
Speaker 1 (09:04):
No, that's good.
I feel like a lot of people canrelate to that and just growing
in your faith.
And yes, you made a decision,but maybe you weren't quite
there yet and I like that youshared that with us.
You mentioned discipleship.
What did that mean to you?
Speaker 2 (09:27):
Well, I'll tell you, I just really truly learned
about discipleship probablyabout 10 years ago Again.
I grew up in a church setting.
Now, I wouldn't say our housewas, quote unquote Christian per
se.
It's not like my dad know, mydad would do daily devotionals
(09:47):
or, you know, nightly prayers oranything like that, which is so
weird.
But he just didn't do that.
Nor did my mom.
But Christ was in our home Likewe knew who he was, but he
wasn't the key figure like heshould be.
So again back to discipleship.
I grew up kind of in thatenvironment and so I even got
into youth ministry.
I became a youth pastor andassociate pastor at a church and
(10:11):
I just thought, man, you justteach people about Jesus and
that's it, and the kids will getit and that's fine.
And I never again thought of orwas taught and not that they're
wrong for not teaching me orwhatever I just again wasn't
taught that.
And so I grew up and got intoministry where you just taught
kids on Sunday and that was it.
(10:31):
You taught kids on Wednesday,that was it.
You never really did anythingother than that.
You really hoped your talk onSunday and even on youth group
nights would take and they wouldjust blossom from it.
They'd just naturally get it.
And the reality of it is that'snot how that works.
And so I ended up leaving thatchurch for various reasons and
(10:54):
ended up starting at a newchurch, ironically enough called
New Beginnings, where I'mcurrently at, and they have a
big focus on one-on-onediscipleship.
And for the first time I waslike wait, what is this
discipleship stuff?
I started getting discipled byolder men in the church and and
even some of my peers, likehelping me kind of get off some
of my rough edges and some ofthe things that that God has
(11:16):
maybe been working on me that Ididn't want to own up to or
maybe kind of hide or shy awayfrom.
And these men are very bold andand vocal and like no, you got
to get that out of your life.
And so for the first time hereI am getting discipled and I'm
like, whoa, that's how you do it.
And then that then carried overinto youth group, I'm like, oh,
that's how we, that's how wenow minister to kids is through
(11:37):
discipleship.
So to me the discipleship wasthe last piece.
If we're playing like a trivialpursuit, is the last eye to to
kind of complete that circle forme to say, oh yes, we're
finally winning the day on that.
Speaker 1 (11:52):
So yeah, I feel like that's another word that we can
use in the Christian world andnot really know what it means.
Speaker 2 (12:00):
I would, I would agree and I think a lot of times
again.
I think people think they'redoing discipleship, but are they
really?
Are they knee deep in it withsomebody?
Are they walking through themud and the mire and the just
crap to to really dig deep inwith somebody and walk truly
with them and try to help themunderstand and pull them along
(12:20):
with you?
Speaker 1 (12:22):
Yeah, no, that's a good way to put it.
So, um, not having the niceties, but being able to really.
Someone knows who you are andyou know who they are, so you
can refine each other,Absolutely Iron, sharpens iron.
Speaker 2 (12:37):
You know, scripture says yeah for sure.
Speaker 1 (12:39):
That's really good.
Well, you said you don't likethrees and I was.
I was thinking of the Trinitywhen we hear of God the Father,
god the Son and God the HolySpirit.
So I was wondering if that wasone of the reasons you didn't
like three.
Speaker 2 (12:59):
Listen, there's.
That's probably the only goodthing about the three Okay, and
probably the second being youknow it took three days.
You know he was he's.
You know.
Three he's raised to life again.
I don't know.
Three to me it's an odd number.
Obviously, on more ways thanone it is an odd number, but for
(13:19):
me also, three just feels likeit's not complete.
Four, like I'm wearing rightnow, I have a jersey that has a
number four on it.
Four to me feels more whole,like everyone gets a piece.
Three, it feels like somebody'sleft out, so outside of the
Trinity, outside of Jesus'sdeath, burial and resurrection.
On the three days, yes, I willconcede that point, that three
(13:41):
is okay in those environments,but the number just is.
I don't know.
I don't know if there's a thingcalled EBGBs, but I don't know.
Three just seems to be a badthing sometimes for me.
That seems to always come inthrees also, by the way.
I don't know, maybe I'm wrongon that.
Speaker 1 (13:56):
Yeah, that is a thing , Don't they say, like the third
thing is going to drop, yeah,yeah.
Four is my favorite, number two, so I'll throw that out there.
Speaker 2 (14:12):
There you go See, and if anyone likes the Enneagram I
don't know if that's still athing.
That was a thing a couple ofyears back.
I think it's still in somecircles I'm an Enneagram four,
so for those Enneagram fans outthere now you know I'm also a
four, so what, which one is that?
I think it's the romanticthat's all.
I remember it being I don't, Idon't know.
Speaker 1 (14:26):
I don't really subscribe to the Enneagram stuff
anymore, so but okay, yeah, Iwas like I don't know, I don't
really subscribe to theEnneagram stuff anymore, so, but
okay, yeah, I was like I don'tknow what that number is, all
right.
So my question with the Trinityis what would you say to those
who have a hard time trustingGod, the father, because they
don't have a good earthly father?
Speaker 2 (14:48):
Boy.
That's a tough one because forme, um, that's been part of my
story truly, and um, and I thinkthat's the hard part sometimes
is how do you trust the godly,the father, when your own father
was a challenge, and so to me Iwould.
I would counsel them or maybeshare with them.
(15:09):
You have to eliminate dad onearth and you have to try to
remember and try to focus on thefact that God is not your dad.
You know God is not your earthlydad, and that because your
earthly dad may have let youdown, may have disappointed you,
may have left you, but becauseyour earthly dad may have let
(15:43):
you down, may have disappointedyou, may have left you, I have a
good friend named Tom who has acrazy story about his dad never
coming to pick him up and hewould sit out into the box of
God and apply the sameexpectations and the same level
of love or not love.
And I think that's where you,or that's where I have been, I
should say, malformed and I'vereally had to eliminate that
that God is true.
(16:04):
Even though sometimes I don'tfeel like he's true, god is
loving.
Even though sometimes I don'talways feel like he's true, god
is loving.
Even though sometimes I don'talways feel like he's loving,
god is always there.
And I think those three thingsI do constantly have to remind
myself.
Because, you know, I'll tellyou one story in particular that
comes to mind.
I was playing golf one time withsome friends, one of my buddies
(16:28):
from elementary school,ironically enough.
So we're still friends, sothat's kind of a cool story.
But uh, he brought his sonswith him that day, so we were
playing like a foursome and sohit him and his sons, they hit.
And then I'm hitting lastfourth, by the way, because
again I don't like things inthree so I'm hitting fourth and
they hit, and they start walkingdown and I say, hey guys, I'm
going to hit.
So they're kind of away fromwhere I'm hitting, so I don't
(16:50):
hit them.
And I hit this amazing shot,just absolutely gorgeous shot,
and I started walking down andI'm like, oh my gosh, did you
guys see it?
Did you see it?
And all three of them turnaround.
They're like no, no, we didn't,we didn't see it.
I was like, oh man, how did younot see that?
It was amazing.
Like look, it's on the greenright now.
It's like three feet from thecup.
(17:10):
Like, oh my gosh, so incredible.
And so, anyway, they're likejust kind of bugged that I'm,
you know, maybe yelling andscreaming and freaking out, and
so they keep walking and I wasreally disappointed because they
didn't see it.
Nobody saw it.
I saw it, nobody else did, andI literally remember this just
clearest day.
I'm walking down down it was agreat day in Southern Oregon and
I'm walking down and I hearthis voice inside me.
(17:32):
That isn't my voice, that isn'tyou know.
I don't know if it's God or not, but I did hear clearly, very
clearly say well, I saw, it Isthat not good enough and I was
like well yeah ofcourse it is.
And then I, you know maybe wentinto this prayer moment as I'm,
you know, not like dropped tomy knees or you know just
(17:54):
quietly in my head, I startedpraying.
I thought, well, how many, howmany other moments have you seen
that that maybe you just neversaid anything?
How many other moments have you?
I mean because that was the bigthing when I was a kid is, my
dad didn't see the moments, hedidn't participate in the big
(18:14):
moments of my life.
And so this amazing shots, this, you know, whatever, this
amazing thing that maybe Iaccomplished at school or when I
was running cross country andtrack, also in high school, he
didn't see any of those momentsand I was always like, why
couldn't you see him, whycouldn't you be there?
And then I started to think youknow, god's been there the whole
time.
He's seen every moment, and tome that's that's the big
(18:38):
difference Is there's always.
There could always bedisappointment with the earthly
father because he wasn't there,he didn't see, but there should
never be disappointment in theGodfather because he's seen
every moment.
He was there the moment I wasborn, he breathed life into me.
He's been there for everymoment.
So how can I be disappointed inthat when I think back to those
(19:00):
moments.
Speaker 1 (19:02):
That was really beautiful.
Thank you, I hear that a lotand I'm sure you do too, that
it's hard to trust a God thatrefers to him as a father.
You know he refers to himselfas a father, I think Jesus' son,
just generalities probably,like that would be the easiest
(19:25):
one.
And then the Holy Spirit islike I don don't really get it,
but it's not upsetting.
But but god the father, I thinkmight have a few things that we
contextually maybe bring ourown hurt into it.
If our father wasn't great, oreven if he was, I mean, he's
(19:46):
still human right and so to kindof see that differently.
But also I feel like I've hearda lot lately that people are
seeing God the Father more ofjust the Old Testament and if
you just pull out certain partsof the Old Testament it might
feel like oh, he's really mad.
Speaker 2 (20:08):
He had reason to be mad.
He had reasons to be mad.
But I hear what you're saying.
I get flack from my friends atchurch and even the people on
the worship team at our church,because the song by Chris Tomlin
it's one of my favorite songsto hate on because it says
you're a good, good father.
It's who you are.
It's like well, if you'rereally that good of a father,
(20:29):
you would have stopped this fromhappening.
If you're really that good of afather, why isn't this
happening?
And then somebody said to methey pushed on that.
They said well, if he's thatgood of a father and he's not
meeting every single need andwant you have, that makes him a
genie, not a God.
I'm like oh right, so do I wanta genie or do I want a God?
(20:49):
Because, going back to yourthree, if I have a genie I only
get three wishes and that's it,that's all.
I'm out.
But with God there's so muchmore unlimitedness because he's
not limited to the three.
Speaker 1 (21:04):
He's omnipresent.
He's everywhere at once.
Is that what you tell yourselfwhen you get upset with the good
?
Good father is the genie thing,or I don't know.
Speaker 2 (21:11):
Yeah, I.
I just I think, when I getupset with God, I have to again
go back to well one.
Why am I upset with him?
Speaker 1 (21:18):
Right.
Speaker 2 (21:19):
Is it because he somehow let me down?
Is he somehow disappointed me?
And then I have to remindmyself well, if I like him in
the good, I got to like him inthe bad too right.
I can't have it both ways.
I can't say, oh, you're justawful and you're mean, and
you're just this kid on the hillburning ants with a magnifying
glass, right, I have to take thegood with the bad, and I think
(21:40):
that's true in any relationship.
You do have to take the goodwith the bad.
But, yes, I will say thatviewing God from the lens of
through my dad has been truly achallenge.
But again, to me, I have toseparate the two and I have,
anytime I catch myself doing,I'm like, wait a second, not the
same, it's not the same person,it's truly almost like.
(22:01):
I'll give you an example I, inmiddle school this is really
long time ago, so way before mywife.
So in middle school, this isreally long time ago, so way
before my wife.
So in middle school, I likedthis girl.
Her name was Amanda and she wasvery pretty and I took, you
know, took everything in me tofinally talk, talk to her in six
period social studies.
(22:21):
She, you know, she sat twoseats in front of me and it took
me like half the year tofinally go up and just talk to
her because she was, in my mind,just out of my league, just
super pretty, right, and Ifinally did, and she was
absolutely awful to me.
She was it's middle school.
I'm sure I smelled, I don'tknow, but she just was really
mean to me.
But the thing is is that for along time, anytime I met an
(22:43):
Amanda after that, I would putthat Amanda into that girl's
place from six period socialstudies.
That Amanda, that's not fair toanybody.
Amanda that I may meet in thefuture, it's a good thing.
My wife's name's not Amanda, bythe way, it's Elizabeth, not
Amanda.
But my point is is that wecan't do that and I think I've
done that and I hope othersdon't do.
(23:03):
That is we take somebody'simpressions, something that's
happened to us, and weimmediately think well, this is
God's fault.
Well, wait a second, how do youknow it's his fault?
Well, if he's all powerful, heshould have stopped it.
Well, what if he's using it tomake us grow or using it to help
me grow?
Should he stop the growth?
No, well, I like that storythat was a good story about
(23:26):
Amanda.
Speaker 1 (23:27):
What a great way to see that in a different light.
And I also liked how you saidyou have to keep reminding
yourself, because sometimes Ithink God gives us a full.
Oh, I'm free of that and I'venever done that again, I've
never had to think about that.
And other times it might alwaysbe kind of a struggle where you
(23:47):
have to be like oh yes, I haveto forgive this person again.
Yes, I have to again, yes again, and just give that over.
So I appreciate your candidnesswith that.
Speaker 2 (23:58):
Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 1 (24:01):
Well, I love talking to you and I've loved hearing
some of your story and yourtestimony and discipleship and
all these words that we we usein Christianity.
I always end mine with threedifferent questions.
One is what is your favoriteBible verse or story?
Speaker 2 (24:19):
Well, I'll give you both.
My favorite Bible verse alwayscomes back to Acts 20, 24, which
says for I consider my lifeworth nothing to me.
Apostle Paul talking here.
If I may finish the race andcomplete the task, the Lord
Jesus has given me the task oftestifying to the gospel.
That was given to me mysophomore year of high school by
(24:43):
my youth leader because I juststarted running track and I
wrote it on my spikes, my trackspikes, I wrote it on my running
shoes, I wrote it everywhere,and anytime I go to a gathering
where I have to sign my name tosomebody's card, like maybe a
wedding thing or whatever I'llgenerally, you know, scribe that
(25:03):
somewhere.
In fact, our rental house, nowthat we're in a new house, our
rental house actually has itinscribed in the concrete
because we had some concretework done, so I had somebody
actually scribe it in there.
So I don't know if my rentersare believers or not, but
they're going to look up thatverse and go oh well, look at
that, he's testifying.
My favorite story Boy.
(25:25):
That is a hard one, but I'mgoing to pick really love the
woman at the well.
In John, chapter four, versefour, where Jesus talking to the
woman at the well I thinksecond only to the woman caught
in the act of adultery whereJesus is writing on the ground.
I'd love to know what he wrote.
What did he write?
(25:48):
I want to know, I want to know.
So that's what I want to know.
So I know I gave you.
I see I gave you three.
You should be happy.
I gave you three there.
Speaker 1 (25:52):
I gave you two stories and a verse.
So what about the woman at thewell, what speaks to you with
that?
Speaker 2 (26:00):
Well, I think a couple of things speaks to me.
The first thing is one it's thefirst time, as far as I know,
bible people can check me andfact check me and call me I'm
wrong and tell me that I'm okay.
But I think it's the first timehe declares unequivocally no
kind of analogy or parables.
(26:20):
It's the first time he declaresthat he is the Messiah.
You know parables.
It's the first time he declaresthat he is the messiah.
So that's that's powerful to me.
The second is how empathetic hewas to her and even with the
woman caught in the act ofadultery, he, he did not allow
anything to derail his message.
He was there for her.
(26:40):
He was there for her.
To me, I think that's what it'sall about.
Is I got to be there for peoplein some form or fashion?
I have to be there, I have toput myself in their place, and
maybe that's why I do what I dowith my show, is I really try
hard to be in their shoes.
Speaker 1 (26:58):
So anyway, no, that's good.
And you see, even though thosewere small things, he really, I
want to say, discipled thembecause he dove straight into
what was really going on intheir lives Right and I mean I
don't think most of us coulddive that fast, that quickly
with someone.
But I mean he got into thenitty gritty of of what was
(27:21):
going on with them 100 percent,and I think that's the beauty of
of who Jesus was and who Jesusis.
Yeah, that's good yeah.
Speaker 2 (27:32):
What are you grateful for?
I mean, listen, I don't knowhow she's done it.
She's done it for 23 years,more than that, she.
She started doing it in 1997,december 12th 1997, at about
8.20 in the morning.
I am grateful every day for mywife and I know that sounds
corny and maybe cliche to some,but outside of my salvation in
(27:55):
Christ, I am truly grateful forher.
She is the rock that stabilizesme, she is the love of my life.
She is the one I wake upthinking about and I go to bed
dreaming about.
Um, she's just beautiful insideand out and and truly.
(28:15):
Without her I'm probably a bumdown on the street, living in a
van down by the river, lookingfor a motivational gift, you
know.
Speaker 1 (28:33):
I do like the SNL yeah right there.
Speaker 2 (28:34):
Yeah, for all those who are old enough to remember
that, matt Foley, I'm amotivational speaker.
Speaker 1 (28:37):
Yeah, no, that was lovely.
I think we actually need moreof that in our world.
Is people building their, theirhusband or their wife up so
thank you, yeah, absolutely.
What kindness have you shown orwhat kindness have you received
in the last week?
Speaker 2 (28:54):
Um, well, it hasn't been the last week, but I'll
tell you.
I'll tell you about a about ayear ago.
This one really rocks my worldand I'll make it quick, cause I
know we got like nine minutesleft, so I'll try to.
About a year ago, this onereally rocked my world and I'll
make it quick because I know wegot like nine minutes left, so
I'll try to go fast.
So I work at a body shop.
That's my real job, notpodcasting, unfortunately is not
my real job.
But anyway, we had this guy comein, asian guy, didn't speak any
(29:14):
English, and so I was usingGoogle Translate, we were going
back and forth and it was wasreally hot day, cause it was
last summer, and I remembersaying to him cause I have some
water in my fridge, just offcamera.
And I said hey man, can I getyou some water?
And I just remember him handinghim the bottle and him just
weeping.
And I asked him.
(29:35):
I said why are you weeping?
It's just water, you know.
And he said he said I've beenin the country now for three and
this is the kindest thinganybody's ever done for me.
I don't understand why.
And I said well, here's why.
And I told him.
You know, I kind of verysuccinctly, through Google
Translate, which is really hardbecause I'm pretty articulate,
(29:58):
but to have to go to a phone towrite it out to, then it was,
and I don't do that very well.
I'm not very good skilled whenit comes to writing things, I'm
more of the talkers, you canprobably gather.
But in that moment I thoughtman God, you're just really
stripping everything away that Ihave in my toolbox and you're
making me go out of my comfortzone to really share the gospel
with this guy.
(30:18):
But I did, and and I'll tellyou what he came back later that
day and just like, hugged me,wept and said I just I had to
get you a coffee.
I don't even know if you drinkcoffee, but here you go.
You were so kind to me and tome.
That's what it's about.
Every day is looking for ways toshow grace, looking for ways to
(30:38):
give grace.
And I have this little rock onmy desk.
I don't know if you'll use thevideo or not, but there's a rock
in my hand right now that says,in pink, writing grace and to
me.
I look at it every day and Ithink to myself who am I going
to give grace to, and it's notlike a choice.
It's not like I'm picking akickball team, like, okay, I'm
going to get this kid and thenthis kid and then this kid.
(30:59):
No, it's the constant reminderto me to say everyone gets grace
.
Today, like Oprah used to rightyou get a car, you get a car,
you get a car.
Grace is that way for me.
It's like you get grace, youget grace.
I'm giving you grace today andI'm not being selective on it,
and that experience truly taughtme that that moment is to give
(31:20):
grace and to give water whereyou can.
So there you go.
Speaker 1 (31:30):
That's good.
Wow, that's really good.
Well, neil, thanks for being on.
I appreciate your time and Iappreciate you telling part of
your story.
I think it's really going toresonate with some people, maybe
the part about a father, orjust the testimony and the
discipleship, and maybesomeone's like.
You know, I really need to getinto discipleship, I really need
to figure this out, and so Iappreciate you sharing that with
us.
Speaker 2 (31:51):
Absolutely, it's been my pleasure.
Thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (31:53):
All right, well, join us next time on Ordinary People
, extraordinary Things, whereyour story is His glory.
Thank you for joining OrdinaryPeople, extraordinary Things.
I hope that this podcast wasimpactful for you.
I will see you in two weeks fora brand new episode of Faith
and Hope.
Don't forget to give us afive-star rating and write a
(32:14):
review so that others can findOrdinary People, extraordinary
Things.
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