December 1, 2025 • 39 mins
In today’s episode, you’ll meet Anishia Denee — a board certified behaviour analyst, ADHD coach, and founder of Authentic Self ADHD Coaching. She helps adults make sense of their patterns, shift from shame into curiosity, and build strategies that actually fit their strengths, values, and capacity. Her blend of behavior analysis, ADHD coaching, and lived experience offers such grounded, compassionate support for real ADHD life.
Website link: https://www.authenticselfadhd.com/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/anishiab/
Threads: https://www.threads.com/@anishiab
We talk about:
• using behavior analysis to build supportive rhythms
• recognizing and celebrating tiny wins
• navigating the messy middle
• making decluttering easier on your nervous system
• what to do when executive function taps out
• how community + self-awareness change everything
This is a gentle, encouraging conversation that reminds you:
You don’t need to be consistent to make progress — you just need to keep returning to yourself. (persistence)
01:47 — Anisha’s Background and Journey
How she went from behavior analysis into ADHD coaching — and why her personal story matters.
04:49 — Behavior Analysis and ADHD Coaching
How behavior principles can support ADHD brains without shame or rigidity.
07:16 — Understanding and Embracing Personal Values
Why values-based living makes rhythms stick more than motivation ever will.
11:46 — Managing Clutter and Environment
Realistic strategies for building a home that supports (not drains) your brain.
15:16 — Navigating the Messy Middle
Progress isn’t linear — here’s how to stay steady when it feels chaotic.
19:27 — The Value of Coaching Through Challenges
Why co-regulation, support, and outside perspective matter so much for ADHD women.
21:21 — Basic Needs and Self-Compassion
A gentle reminder that sleep, food, and rest are foundational — not optional.
23:13 — Community, Creativity, and ADHD
How connection makes follow-through possible, and why creativity is a strength, not a flaw.
25:03 — Experimentation and Personalization
There is no one-size-fits-all. Learn to test tiny adjustments and honor what actually works for you.
29:18 — Noticing Progress and Releasing Perfectionism
How to see the tiny victories your brain tends to overlook.
32:38 — Behavior Analysis and Understanding Triggers
Why your reactions aren’t personal failures — they’re patterns you can understand.
33:55 — Connecting and Finding Support
How coaching, community, and safe people help you break old ADHD cycles.
35:40 — Final Thoughts and Encouragement
A gentle send-off reminding you that small shifts build real confidence over time.
Share your thoughts with Megs!
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(This deal is available until Jan 1st)
Want to learn more about what's inside? Testimonials, info, & FAQs here
Is Coaching a good fit for you? Start here> The Perfect Place to Start
Learn more about the Community HERE> OrganizinganADHDBrain.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:39):
Welcome back to the show.
I'm so excited to introduce youto my new friend, Anisha.
she is an A DHD coach, abehavior analyst.
She's a fellow, A DHD, or she'sa cat mom, which I find is a
pretty common trait amongst us,A DH DERs, and she's also a
toddler mom, and pregnant withher second baby right now too.
Yes.
Her website is fabulous.
(01:00):
She has so much knowledge.
The people that have worked withher have nothing but incredible
things to say about her.
You and I met on threads becausewe just started talking.
I was talking about the MessyMiddle and doing a podcast
episode and finding other peoplethat were ready to talk about
it.
And I love the way that youengage with the A DHD community.
(01:21):
It's been fascinating to watch.
I'm so glad to now know you.
Welcome to the podcast.
Thank you.
I'm excited to be here.
It was so great meeting you onthreads too.
That was my leap into trying toengage more on social media and
it was a great experiencegetting to meet you there.
Yeah.
It's neat to see you engagingyou have found a way to truly
(01:41):
create a community there and I'mvery impressed.
With what you've been doing sofar.
Thank you.
That means a lot to me.
Absolutely.
Tell us a little bit about you,where you're from and what
caught you into A DHD coaching.
I am from BC Canada, so quitefar away from you, but I am
self-employed.
Which I love.
I wouldn't have it any otherway.
I get to follow all my littleideas in tangents.
(02:04):
Maybe not all of them, but lotsof them.
I'm a cat mom, toddler mom, andpregnant.
And honestly, having a toddlermakes you relearn everything,
but practice all the tools andall the strategies.
In 2018, I started my master'sdegree in behavior analysis and
then I finished that in 2020,right in the pandemic and then
(02:25):
studied for my board exam tobecome a board certified
behavior analyst.
And that was like a really bigfour hour exam.
That was like climbing amountain, trying to prepare for,
finished that.
And of course, right after I waslike.
You know, I should do somethingnew.
On top of that, now that I'vedone all the school and the
tests, I should, look into thisother program of A DHD coaching
(02:46):
because I've always lovedtalking about A DHD with my
friends.
Seem to attract all the other aADHDers just naturally and.
It's just so enjoyable for me tolearn more about it I did my
coaching program with the mostamazing cohort of other ladies
that I get to still be incontact with, and it was such a
great sense of community and Ifound through that process, I've
(03:11):
just worked on integrating thetwo approaches.
So.
Behavior analysis is different,but what I learned through my
master's degree and my boardexam and my experience in that
field really helps inform how Ilook at things and how I work
with people.
So it's been really fun for meto explore how the two can
interact together and, just seewhat the next step is for me.
(03:32):
I'm never somebody who's happyjust doing one thing, so the
variety has been so helpful forme.
Yeah, preach.
It's like I get new businessideas every day and I'm like,
Megan, like you could do otherthings but keep it in the same
realm.
We've worked really hard tobuild this so, or.
Every new hobby, I couldmonetize this.
(03:54):
Oh my gosh.
You can actually have a hobbyand not monetize it, believe it
or not.
Yeah.
If you needed to hear that,you're welcome because sometimes
I need to hear that.
Yeah.
I've tried to keep them separatebecause then they're like low
pressure.
I can pick them up when I wantand drop them when I want, and.
Those are just for me.
But this has been something thatis like a hobby, but also it's
(04:15):
my income.
I enjoy it so much.
People with a DHD are some ofthe most fascinating people I've
ever met in my entire life.
Mm-hmm.
The people that truly wannaunderstand their brains and like
get to this next level ofexperiencing life because they
see the barriers, but wannaunderstand the barriers.
Mm-hmm.
It's really cool.
I mean, I'm not surprised Iended up here.
I was always that kid that waslike, but why?
But why?
Yeah.
(04:36):
And my entire education and nowcareers answering those
questions or digging into themmore and figuring out why, or
figuring out what the nextquestions are.
It needs to make sense.
It needs to make sense.
Yes.
Okay.
So I love this behavior analystpart of your life.
That's what you got yourmaster's degree in it.
(04:57):
Mm-hmm.
And from what I was looking aton the website, you help people
analyze their behavior and theirsurroundings.
So tell.
What you do as a behavioranalyst.
Okay.
And why that's important to whatyou do.
Yeah.
Tell us.
Tell us everything.
So behavior analysis looks atpatterns of behavior to figure
out why people do what they do.
If you're seeing a theme here,the why again and.
(05:20):
What supports people, what getsin their way and what makes
certain actions easier or harderin their life?
So I find that impacts mycoaching because we're not
focusing on fixing the personperson's not doing anything
wrong.
We are focusing on how can weset things up to accommodate
your needs, figure out what yourneeds are, figure out what's
important to you, and thendesign different aspects of your
(05:42):
life to support that.
I really enjoy looking at like.
Okay, what's already happening?
How do you naturally function?
And some people might see it aslike, but that's the problem.
I think we're most successfulwhen we look at our, our natural
rhythms and tendencies and likehow we do best and then build
off of that instead of tryingto, change who we are, on
(06:02):
smaller scale, an example wouldbe like, I'm never gonna be a
person who puts all my clothesaway perfectly all the time.
That's just not me.
And I figured that out.
So instead, I bought multiplelaundry baskets and put them
where I drop clothes.
And that made it so much easierbecause it's in sight and it's
so easy.
And I just went with wherethey're ending up naturally
instead of trying to shift.
(06:23):
Every part of how I'm doing thistask.
So on a larger scale, I thinksomething like that is
applicable to lots of people andsomething that we do a lot in
coaching and in behavioranalysis as well.
That's beautiful.
And to that point, we so oftencompare ourselves to other
people and then we feel like weneed to live up to this
expectation or this perceivedexpectation of what other people
(06:44):
need us to do.
Mm-hmm.
Which is too.
Pick up our clothes and put themaway perfectly.
Right.
That would mean I'm organized,except that we truly just need
to understand what could be goodenough so that it works in the
moment.
Yeah.
And we can be proud of doingsomething that works for us.
Yeah.
And what is actually importantto us, maybe that's not
important to you and it'stotally okay.
(07:05):
It's not worth spending theenergy on.
Yeah.
Oh my gosh.
Totally.
But we sometimes expand thatenergy because.
We think it's important toeveryone else, so we're like
it's gotta be important to metoo.
Yeah.
I do love that you speak tofinding your authentic voice and
your authentic self throughcoaching.
Tell us a little bit about whatyou mean by that.
(07:26):
I find just through my ownexperience and also the
experience of the people that Iwork with and my background in
behavioral analysis and workingwith different kids.
There's a lot of pressure inlife to show up as someone who's
like quote unquote normal orlike do what everyone else is
doing or there's a right way todo things.
(07:46):
And I find that over time, thatjust puts so much pressure on
you and leads to so muchmasking, which.
Sucks your energy.
Often by the time, especiallyfor late diagnosed people, by
the time where we get diagnosedoften as adults, especially for
women, it's hard to even figureout who we are anymore.
I'm really passionate abouthelping people figure out like
(08:06):
who they actually are, how theyactually like work.
Well, everybody has strengths.
Not compared to everybody else,but compared to yourself, you're
gonna have strengths of somesort.
And lots of people come to methinking they don't have any
strengths or they don't knowwhat they are.
So figuring out like what areyou passionate about?
What are your strengths?
How do you do best?
What makes you feel fulfilled inlife?
Really discovering like who youare as a person without that
(08:29):
outside pressure of who youthink you should be is something
that I'm really passionateabout.
It's hard to mask all the timeand to not feel clear on what's
important to you or what youlike, or you know, how you even
wanna spend your time.
That's beautiful.
I find myself asking a lotasking myself, what do I want?
(08:49):
Mm-hmm.
And oftentimes I am thinkingabout what I should do, should
all of these shoulds and all ofthese things I'm thinking about
what other people might expectfrom me.
And then I pause and I'm like,wait, what do I want?
And sometimes I don't actuallyknow the answer, which is an
important thing that I'mnoticing and I'm trying to
figure out.
(09:10):
Because oftentimes we are soconcerned with everyone else
that we don't ask ourselves.
Mm-hmm.
And then we do mask, we do tryto fit everyone else's mold of
what we think is right.
When you were talking aboutthat, I was thinking about, it
is so hard to sometimes figureout what you want.
And I think sometimes we can getstuck in that.
Goal setting cycle, like I haveto have something that I'm
working towards right now.
I have to be clear on what Iwant, even if you're in a period
(09:32):
of trying to figure it out.
Sometimes that can be a lot ofpressure.
Over the course of coaching, Ihave learned a lot about values,
and I have explored this concepta little bit more, which I
really like because instead ofit being like a destination like
I need to get here, it's more ofa compass so you can make
choices that move you in that.
Direction of the thing that youvalue.
(09:54):
And sometimes that freedom canbe so empowering.
Like I don't have to have it allfigured out right now, but I
know this is important to me,and this decision will be more
in line with that value andthat's still okay.
While I figure out what Iactually want in life.
I love that you were able toreframe that and talk about
values.
I actually had a therapist tellme to go and figure out what my
(10:14):
values were, and then I saw avideo on TikTok, hear Me Out the
other day.
And something I work on with myclients is our beliefs, like our
beliefs, fuel our thoughts andour thoughts then become actions
that we take on a regular basis.
But our beliefs come from ourvalues.
The values are the ones thatfuel the beliefs, and I thought
(10:34):
that was really valuable becauseoftentimes we don't think about
the values that we truly holddear.
Like what even is a value?
Yeah.
How does one discover theirvalues?
When I start working with peoplein coaching, I have a whole
bunch of different optionsbecause everybody learns.
Best differently.
Some people can get likeabsolutely stuck with open-ended
(10:55):
questions, but you give them twochoices and they're good.
So there's lots of differentfree values assessments online.
There's word banks where you canchoose which ones resonate the
most with you, or that you startby saying, okay, these ones
don't apply to me at all.
And work backwards until youhave a short list.
There's ones that display twodifferent cards and you select
which one resonates with youmore, and then you go from there
(11:18):
and it gives you a short list atthe end.
There's ones where you canreflect on a past experience
and, and go from that process offiguring out your values.
I think it, it's reallyindividual and depends on what
helps trigger that reflectiveprocess for you in a way that is
not so much pressure that youshut down.
Cool.
We'll drop one of those freeassessment quizzes in the show
(11:39):
notes, that way people can checkit out when you talk about
behavior analysis.
And values and working withpeople.
I'm curious about yourexperience with helping people
with clutter.
'cause that's something that youhelp people with as well.
Like the organization, thegetting to doing the thing
oftentimes.
Mm-hmm.
Well, A DHD coaches in generalwork with organization because
(12:00):
that is an executive functiondefect, right?
Mm-hmm.
That's something that we are notvery good at.
so first thought that comes tomind is that a lot of people are
very affected by the amount ofvisual stimulation in their
environment.
So for example, my spacereflects my brain if it's very
messy and there's stuffeverywhere.
I'm not sure which one is likethe initial part, whether it's
(12:21):
like my brain feels lettered,tangled.
It's hard to think and thereforelike it's hard to do anything.
Or if my environment is gettingaway from me first and therefore
like I just have a harder time.
'cause there's lots visible, butI find that dealing with some of
the clutter and the environmentis something actionable that I
can do even on a hard day.
Even if it's just starting withone thing.
(12:42):
Like I know this piece ofgarbage goes in the garbage.
I'm going to put it there, andif that's all I can do, that's
okay.
The other thing is that theenvironment triggers different
thoughts of things that we needto do and memories and whatnot.
So it's such an opportunity touse it strategically.
But in order to use itstrategically, you have to have
a.
A limit on the stuff that'svisible.
(13:02):
So I have never been a personwho's not gonna have some sort
of stuff on surfaces.
That's fine.
But I have been able to shiftthe stuff that I do have on
surfaces to help remind me ofthe the ways I want to spend my
time, or the things that areimportant to me, and I love
that.
In order to do that though, Ihave to be able to notice the
things that I am purposelyputting out versus the things
that end up.
Out anyways.
Right.
(13:22):
I find that a lot of people whoare struggling to manage clutter
are stuck in the decision makingprocess.
Like there's just so manyoptions, there's so many
decisions, and now we're frozen.
So breaking it down to, I knowyour ideal goal is to post those
and sell it on Facebookmarketplace, however that is
like.
A ton of steps, and maybe it'snot accessible right now.
Maybe we need to find a waythat's more accessible in order
(13:45):
to get that out of yourenvironment, if that's something
that's important to you, reallyseparating out what is my ideal
plan for this clutter versuslike what meets me where I'm at
(15:09):
right now.
Because the ideal is not helpinganybody if it's not happening.
I have sold things on Facebookmarketplace.
And I have also paused and justtaken like car loads of stuff to
donations, which have been agame changer.
The amount that I've been ableto release in one moment without
having to make 15 more decisionson it.
(15:31):
Yeah, it's been such a beautifulexperience and such a release in
a way that brings that samedopamine rush as.
Going to home goods and buyinghundreds of dollars worth of
things, right?
Like mm-hmm.
You get it in a different waybecause you are freeing up your
space.
Yeah.
In such a beautiful way.
I really think that ourenvironment affects what we do
(15:52):
and our ability to processthings and how we spend our
time.
And when you're bouncing fromthing to thing, which is so
common for us, a DHD years, it'salready hard.
To stick to it.
So if we're environment set upin a way that encourages that,
like jumping from thing to thingto thing and feeling so stuck,
that's only going to compoundthe situation for us.
Yeah.
When we are jumping from thingto thing, we are in this cycle
(16:15):
of stuck.
Even if we're feeling like,mm-hmm we're making movement and
we're doing things, it doesn't,we don't see progress.
Yeah, doing and progress aredefinitely two different things.
Took me a while to figure thatout, but yeah, it's brilliant.
It's brilliant.
Okay, so this season we'retalking about the messy middle,
and I define the messy middle asthe point from, point A to point
(16:38):
B, but like all of the grossnessin between, because we can see
the before and after pictures onInstagram.
Mm-hmm.
We see the people who havewritten the books.
Right.
Like, this is who I was and thisis who I am now.
But in between that there is alot of work to be done outside
of our comfort zone.
Mm-hmm.
And so often people hire a coachto go from point A to point B,
(17:00):
understanding that.
Well, I just want this, and Iwant it to be easy, but also we
don't necessarily trulyunderstand the grossness that
comes in between Sometimes itactually gets so much messier.
Before it gets better.
So in your experience workingwith people, tell us what it
looks like to go through themessy middle and how the hell do
(17:21):
we do it?
Yeah, the messy middle is a likean interesting concept.
I don't know if there's reallyan end to it.
When we set goals, we'reachieving those goals and
assuming like now we're good,but really.
Life is just a series of ups anddowns, and we will get to the
point where we feel for a momentwhere like, things are good,
we're in this slow state, we'remanaging well, and then life
(17:44):
happens, right?
Somebody gets sick or yourperfect routine gets thrown off,
or you know, growth in itself isuncomfortable most of the time
because change is uncomfortable.
It really stretches us.
I think that my biggest, messymiddle moments, there's two
clear ones that stand out to mein my life.
Number one, when I was inuniversity, that's when I got
(18:04):
diagnosed and it was a giant,messy middle.
I think that the only pauseswere like between semesters
where I was like, okay, I canbreathe again, and then you're
into the next one already.
So that time felt like, justtrying to keep your head above
water and it's so uncomfortableand not everything's going to be
perfect.
It's impossible to have thingsset up in your ideal way all the
(18:26):
time, as much as we'd like that.
The other time that really stoodout to me was after I had my
daughter, when it feels like allyour structure and everything
falls apart and you relearn fromthe very bottom of like, how do
I feed myself again?
How do I do anything becausenone of my supports, none of my
structure is there anymore, andtrying to figure out like I
(18:48):
can't work out under the idealcircumstances anymore.
How do I get back to moving mybody?
Because I know it helps mybrain.
Like you have to relearneverything.
I mean, that feels like theepitome of messy to me.
Yeah.
Because not only.
Are you like, you're notnecessarily learning a new skill
all the time and trying tochange in that way, but like the
(19:09):
skills you thought you had andthe things that you thought, and
you know, these ones are solidat least, and a rhythm for my
life.
Those were gone in bothsituations, so it really forced
a lot of growth and that isuncomfortable.
Yeah.
I wanna dive into what it meansto like notice the discomfort
because I think the way that Iused to do it, and I'm curious
if you can relate to this.
The way that I used to noticediscomfort is I would.
(19:32):
Feel obviously reallyuncomfortable, but like the
feeling for me is a gut feelingor like my chest will get really
tight or I will start tofrantically fix things or get
into this all or nothing mode oftrying to make things better.
And for example, my husband andI, we just moved to
Massachusetts and I previouslyowned a home where I had bins
(19:55):
and labels, and I had figuredout where everything goes in my
home and thought that I wouldvery easily be able to do that.
When we got here, but of courseI had to follow my own methods
and I had to think verystrategically and very hard
about making decisions.
It, there was no more autopilot.
Mm-hmm.
(20:15):
I couldn't go on autopilot mode.
I had to stay.
In this very decision makingmode, which has been very, very
uncomfortable, like, how do Imake these decisions moving
forward?
So really, I wanna know whensomeone feels stuck.
Mm-hmm.
And they're coming to you.
And you've been working togetherand they have made progress, how
(20:36):
do they get back on track again?
Right.
And this can happen.
I love these moments.
Okay, cool.
Awesome.
Yes, I do too.
So tell me about how youapproach it.
First of all, I wanna start offby saying like, it's so much
easier when you're not the onein the middle of it.
Like it's so much more clearwhen you're on the outside
looking in.
And that's why I'm totally finesaying like it's not always
clear for me in my life and Idon't think it ever will be.
(20:58):
'cause nobody's perfect.
You could still help otherpeople even if you haven't a
hundred percent mastered it inyour life without support.
Support is a great component ofit, but when I start working
with people, I tell them in likeour first call, there will be a
point where you're not movingforward or you feel like things
have dropped off or something inlife gets in the way.
And this is actually the mostvaluable part of coaching
(21:20):
because if everything's perfectand you're good, that's not
life.
And then if that's happening ourentire coaching package and then
we're done.
You haven't actually workedthrough the problem solving
process of what those like bigfeelings and like.
Oh my God, I feel like I failedand now like, what's the point
of trying again because I'm justgonna fail again.
All these thoughts that arecoming up and your past
experiences impacting, like howyou feel about it.
(21:42):
That is the point where I thinkcoaching is the most valuable
because you can support theprocess.
That's where the problem solvinghappens.
Like, okay, this wasn'tsustainable on a hard life
moment or like on your hardestdays, so what needs to change?
Is it that what you were doingno longer works?
Sometimes it no longer works,but usually it's a matter of
like we have haven't accountedfor the low capacity days or the
(22:04):
days when everything ischallenging and we are now
telling ourselves that it'sdropped off and there's no point
in continuing when realistic.
We need to plan for those days'cause they will happen.
ADHDers have varying capacity.
Almost everybody I've coachedwith has days where like the
brain won't brain.
It's just a part of it.
And we can account for that andwork through it, but the more
(22:24):
opportunities we have topractice those moments where it
feels like everything has fallenapart and how are we going to
restart the more prepared peopleare for after coaching.
When those moments happen andthey're on their own.
It's beautiful.
It reminded me of a freebie youhave on your website that I
wanna highlight, have you takencare of your basic needs, And it
reminded me to drink water.
(22:45):
That moment.
It's interesting because onthose days that we feel like our
brain can't brain, we're mostdysregulated, those are the days
that we're the most hard onourselves.
Mm-hmm.
And those are the days thatwe're not gonna be able to get
the most done.
Yeah.
Which is fascinating and it'sjust such an interesting thing
to notice.
It's so easy as an A DHD coachto sometimes say.
(23:07):
Oh my gosh.
It's hard for me to notice thosethings because I focus on this.
I help people through it, butthe introspection you need to be
a coach for yourself is a wholenother level.
In fact, I don't think that youshould be, because while you are
the expert on what works andwhat you need.
Other people are always going tobring you a new perspective.
(23:29):
Mm-hmm.
That's why we listen topodcasts.
That's why we talk to otherpeople with a adhd.
Mm-hmm.
And coaches need coaches.
Yeah.
I could say that until the cowscome home, because I could say
something all day long and Imight be living it, but it's not
until someone else says it to methat I'm like, yes, implement
that.
Again.
When you're hiring an A DH ADHDcoach that also has a DHD.
I try to really model to peoplethat I still met, try to manage
(23:52):
my A DHD.
That's just, I'm not trying tofix it.
It's a part of who I am and howI work.
And I'm not gonna say it's asuperpower'cause I hate that
there are strengths and thereare significant struggles.
But if I can model to people,like we're gonna have those hard
days and they're not gonnanecessarily go away, but our
measure of success shouldn't.
B, that we never have.
Hard days.
All right.
And like, I'm still going tohave my own executive
(24:14):
dysfunction.
I'm going to forget what toolswork for me.
And then somebody will say itand be like, oh yeah.
The amount of times my therapisthas asked me like, well, what
would you tell somebody in acoaching call if they said the
same thing to you?
And I'm like, yeah, right.
Yes.
Yes.
and it's also such an importantaspect of just having more
people with A DHD in your life,so you don't feel like you're
(24:36):
going at this alone.
That just brings me back tothat, you know, your experience
on social media and bringingpeople together and asking
people what does work and whatworks for them, because it's
such a great idea to understand.
You can go online and find abazillion strategies and tools
and whatnot, and I think there'sso much more to it than just
(24:56):
knowing what the tools are andalso getting new ideas and
having ideas for starting pointsis so valuable because maybe you
just haven't looked at it fromthat perspective before.
Or maybe somebody sharing theirexperience can help you be like.
Oh yeah, like that makes so muchsense to me.
I'm gonna try it and have hopethat there's stilts things that
I haven't tried that can workbefore.
(25:18):
The novelty is always acomponent that makes things a
little bit easier for our brainsto manage.
So it's important to recognizethat too.
But you know, just having astarting point when it feels
hard to just design it on yourown can be so helpful and I
found those posts really helpfulfor that.
I really enjoyed like lookingthrough.
Ambitious probably, but likelooking through everybody's
(25:38):
responses and trying to themesand make a list of like, okay,
here's some things that came upmultiple times for people.
How do I get more exercise, geta dog that came up like well
over 30 times at least, maybemore.
But.
That's not ever something thatwould've been on a, like a list
online of how to work out moreconsistently.
(25:58):
Yeah, totally.
Oh my gosh.
People with a DHD are so darncreative.
We have a natural tendency to beso creative as a d, ADHD is, and
also when you have a lifetime oftrying to do things and the
right way, we've put so manyboundaries on ourselves of even
though that might work, I'm noteven gonna try it because it's
not the normal way to do it orthe right way to do it.
(26:18):
One thing I end up doing a lotin coaching is like.
Giving people permission toexperiment and find things that
work for them.
It doesn't matter if it doesn'tmake any sense.
Sometimes I work sitting on thefloor because my body is most
comfortable there.
It does not make sense to mostpeople.
I'm not gonna sit at a desk allday because it literally is
uncomfortable and hurts my body,but I can't think in one place
all day, and that's okay if Itry to.
(26:40):
Sit at my desk all the time anddo what everyone else does.
That will result in one of theleast productive days ever for
me.
So like the process of givingyourself permission, and if you
can't give yourself permission,having a community of people
that encourages you to give it atry and experiment and see if I
tried this, what happens?
That is so encouraging because.
(27:02):
I have seen so many thingsonline too that are people
saying, that's never gonna workfor me.
I'm never gonna try that becausethat's never gonna work for me.
And sometimes because we seethat they have a ADHD too,
mm-hmm.
We assume that, oh well, if it'snot gonna work for them, it's
not gonna work for me.
Or vice versa.
We see that something's workingfor one person.
Then it doesn't work for me.
(27:24):
So now I'm like shaming myselfbecause I'm not as good as you.
Right?
Like there's so many aspects ofthat.
But I do appreciate tryingsomething, whether you think
it's gonna work or not.
And truthfully, if you thinkit's not gonna work, then.
You're right.
Mm-hmm.
Because you have decided thatupfront.
But if you're open to learningand to see what could work for
you, that can make all thedifference in the world, but
(27:46):
that is also building thatmomentum to actually take the
action and to noticing how totake the action.
Then to that point too, thedecision, sometimes we have so
many tools and so many things inour back pocket that we don't
try any of them and say theydon't work because.
We've had too many decisions.
(28:06):
Haven't actually tried any ofthem because mm-hmm.
We have too much knowledge.
Yeah.
And now we don't know where tostart or our expectation is in
order for something to be asuccessful tool, it has to work
all the time.
This is another thing that Istart out with that I don't
believe that it's possible for atool to be effective all the
time for an ADHDer We needenough tools that we can cycle
(28:27):
through when something stopsworking and we have another
option on a short list.
Not like something that's goingto send us into like decision
paralysis.
But we need enough options so wecan meet ourselves where we're
at, instead of trying to bullyourselves into being the perfect
person for this tool.
The tool is supposed to help us.
It's like clothes.
Clothes are supposed to fit ourbodies, or we're not supposed to
change our bodies to fit theclothes.
(28:48):
And I think the same thing workswith tools and our brains.
Yeah.
And also taking ourselves out ofa box that we need to check to
see if it works or not.
I was just talking to a clienttoday and she expressed just
wanting to get outside.
what if you are walking to yourcar?
Does that count as beingoutside?
Can you notice these otherexperiences where you are
outside?
And maybe you take a deep breathto enjoy it and give yourself a
(29:11):
little bit of grace and creditfor doing it.
It's that.
All or nothing mentality.
Oftentimes we're like, well, ifI go outside, I need to go
outside and I need to breathe 10times.
I need to do four squats.
And then I can say that I didoutside, right?
I did the outside, and now I cango in the inside, but we can
actually let it be.
The easiest thing possible, butwe tend to overcomplicate it.
(29:34):
And then if we get it wrongonce, then we're gonna get it
wrong forever.
But truthfully, you're gonna getit wrong until you get it right.
And if, if you're not alreadydoing the thing, that can be a
really big leap.
For your brain, for so manyadhd, momentum is so key, and
this ties in the behavioranalysis side.
Too often we are trying, andthen we're punishing ourselves
(29:54):
by being extremely critical andshaming ourselves for not doing
it perfectly.
Those are not the behaviors thatare gonna increase in the
future.
Like when we're beatingourselves up, of course it's not
working because why would it?
It's uncomfortable andmiserable, right?
If we can shift our bar of whatcounts and feel the win, maybe
that's just sitting on the deck.
So you're still gettingsunshine, but it's not like
(30:15):
going outside.
Or maybe it's, you know, I'mjust gonna go walk out my door
and then walk back in, and thatcounts and that's fine.
Often I find once we're actuallyin the space, we wanna continue
the thing.
But when we set the bar so highto even start, like, I can only
start if it's exactly this way.
It's so challenging.
It just reminded me of noticingthe progress.
(30:37):
So coming back to ourperfectionist mindset and trying
to incorporate this ideal, ifyou are striving for a value or
if you do have a goal or anintention in mind is starting to
see that now.
So when I was still in Colorado,one of the reasons why I wanted
to move to Massachusetts isbecause it's super rural and you
can see the stars.
Like galaxies, like the way youcan see the stars here is
(30:59):
amazing.
And that was one of the thingslike I can't wait for the
opportunity to see the stars.
And my daughter had thisexercise she had to do for
school where we had to gooutside and look at the stars
and look at the constellations.
And there was one night we wentout and it was cloudy.
And I was like, see no stars.
You can't see the stars here.
So like obviously we came insideand I started to go out more
(31:21):
often and I was like, they'reincredible here.
Mm-hmm.
I just haven't taken the time tonotice them.
Yeah.
Because I feel like there's thisthing I need to achieve and to
do in order to get to this endpoint that I'm looking for.
To relate this back toorganizing too, when you are.
Starting to get organized anddecluttered in your home.
(31:41):
You are not going to see thestars right away, but you could
notice that you've put thescissors in a place that future
you is gonna go look for themwhen you're trying to find them.
And that is a star right there.
Yeah.
And you could notice that youactually come back to a project
that you started.
And you're like, oh, look atthis.
This is different.
And you start to see thesethings and this evidence of you
(32:04):
experiencing this life you wantto, because you've taken the
time to notice.
Yeah.
So I appreciate that trigger.
I have so many thoughts come upwhile you were saying that.
this's, most recent in my headthat came up was the concept of
glimmers.
I worked with a client once whoreally struggled with the idea
of gratitude because it feltvery like forced and artificial.
But she really connected withthe concept of like glimmers.
(32:24):
And it can just be like amoment.
It can be seeing a few stars inthe sky that's mostly cloudy and
that's okay.
And I have found this like shiftbecause we have a negativity
bias and that at one point washelpful.
Our brains are trying to keep ussafe.
It's trying to help us avoid thelion that's trying to eat us.
Right now, of course, there'sstress in all sorts of areas,
and we have to put a little bitof extra effort into training
(32:47):
our brain to notice those small,enjoyable things in life.
The other thing that came tomind noticing is the very first
step, and so many people come tome and they're like, I've
noticed that blah, blah, blah,blah, and I don't know what to
do about it, and I don't knowhow to start working on it.
And I try to encourage'em.
I'm like, well, you've alreadydone, you've already done the
first step, because if you can'tnotice it, it's.
(33:09):
It's impossible to change.
Then you just start noticing itfaster and closer to when it
actually happens, until you'renoticing in the middle and able
to do something about it.
Yeah.
That is it.
That's what we work on too.
It's noticing, and when younotice, you start to get curious
naturally as a human.
Mm-hmm.
Understanding why is thishappening?
Because when you notice you'redoing it once, it's like, oh,
(33:32):
that's interesting, and then younotice you're doing it again and
again and again.
Mm-hmm.
It's so fascinating to then say,well, why is this happening?
Like why am I doing this andwhat do I do to get beyond this
now?
How do I notice to the pointthat I'm changing and I'm
starting to understand that thisisn't what I want anymore?
Yeah.
And figuring out why is soessential.
(33:54):
And again, this ties thebehavior analysis back in, but
figuring out like all behaviorshave a function.
There's a reason why we're doingit, and if we can really get
down to the root of like what itdoes for us, because if it
wasn't doing something for us,it wouldn't be continuing, then
that helps us figure out what todo instead or what some other
options that might meet the sameneed are.
Yes.
(34:14):
Oh my gosh, so much.
Yes.
Like the way we approach ourclutter keeps ourselves safe,
believe it or not.
Like none of us want theclutter.
But our reactions to it keepourselves safe in the moment.
Yeah, in the moment.
Not long term, but in themoment, which is half the battle
right there.
Yeah.
So much of what we do is justkeeping ourselves safe and our
brain doesn't want us to besuccessful.
(34:36):
It wants us to keep ourselvessafe.
That is just our naturalinclination.
The definition of what successis has changed over time too.
It doesn't make sense for yourbrain to cling on to successful
because it's such a shiftingbar.
10 years ago, my idea of successis drastically different than
what it is now, and that's okay.
In order to be successful, youhave to stay safe, so it is
(34:57):
still helpful, even if it'smaybe not having an effect in
your life that you would ideallywant.
It's identifying new ways tokeep yourself safe, reminding
yourself that you're safe.
I love that there's otheroptions.
Other options.
That's awesome.
Okay.
Tell us a little bit about howpeople can find you.
Well, my website has contactinformation for me.
(35:17):
I show up the most on threadsover any other social media
platform, mostly because itdoesn't have 50 million steps to
showing up on it.
But that's a really great placeto find me if you are on that.
Otherwise, Instagram is also agood way, and those will both be
linked in the show notes.
two things that I have on the goright now.
I have a few spots forone-to-one A DHD coaching, and
(35:38):
that's something I'll alwayshave open.
And then I also have a new offerthat I've been working on, an
executive functioning profile,which is more of like a little
intro to.
What your strengths are and whatareas that might need some
support are, and how those canwork together to set up some
strength based strategies.
This is a snapshot into how youwork best and some specific
(35:59):
questions in a questionnaire.
So it's not gonna be like, dothis and this will be the magic
solution, which I don't even dothat in coaching, but here is
the starting point.
Here are some options that mightwork for you or a way to
understand why certain thingsare hard and.
Why certain things are easy.
For example, I have a fewcoaching clients right now'cause
this is a part of my co coachingoffer as well, that really
(36:20):
struggle with task initiation.
But then they have a strength ofstaying focused.
So now that's led to anunderstanding that the starting
is the hard part.
But once they start it, they'regood.
It's a much shorter amount oftime that they have to
experience that discomfort forand experience that resistance
for before they get into thepart where they can just flow.
So this can be thought of aslike a roadmap, a starting
(36:41):
point, and then if people want,I have an optional single
coaching session to help givemore individualized examples or
specifically talk about yourlife and barriers that you think
might come up if you try thosethings and work through the
results together.
That's beautiful.
any last minute thoughts thatyou wanted to share with the
audience before you part us?
Maybe just a few of the thingsthat I have found really have
(37:04):
stood out to me the most out ofmy, A DHD experience.
There's such a focus onconsistency in life.
I encourage everybody to shifttheir perspective to persistence
because like we're talkingabout, there's gonna be things
that come up, you're gonna dropoff.
You're not gonna be able to dothe same thing every single day
for the rest of your life.
And being able to shift to,like, my success is being able
(37:26):
to pick this back up when Inotice it falls off.
Such an important thing to learnas an A DHD and also baby steps
count 1% better is great, and itdoesn't have to happen every
single day for it to be 1%better.
You can zoom out and see overthe course of, you know, the
week, the month.
Maybe you're doing the thingmore often or maybe you're
(37:47):
challenging those thoughts moreoften, and that is still
progress.
That's still a win even if youhave an off week or two weeks or
whatever.
I love that.
Baby steps is still progress ABto freaking ly.
Cool.
Thank you.
We forget that.
We do.
We do.
It's not, I forget that.
Still it up.
Yes.
We do still have to remindourselves that, and it's good to
(38:08):
hear it from other people andthat has been the persistence
piece of it has been the onlyreason why I still have this
podcast and continue to grow mycoaching business is like coming
back to what I know works me andbuilding off of that.
Me too.
Me too.
I remember when it was just theexpectation was I have to do it
all the time for it to count andunlearning.
That took some time, but nowknowing that like my experience
(38:31):
is still valid, even if I dropit off and pick it up a little
bit and it flows with the restof my life, that can still be
success and.
Honestly, it's so empoweringbecause life is not the same
every day forever.
Yeah.
Especially with kids.
Especially with hormones,especially with everything that
comes up preach.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Thank you so much for your timetoday and your expertise, and I
(38:54):
hope if this resonated with youat all, you go check out Anisha
and all that she has to offer.
Thank you for having me.
It was so much fun talking toyou, and I will chat with you on
Threads, I'm sure.
Yes, absolutely.
Welcome back to the show.
I'm so excited to introduce youto my new friend, Anisha.
she is an A DHD coach, abehavior analyst.
She's a fellow, A DHD, or she'sa cat mom, which I find is a
pretty common trait amongst us,A DH DERs, and she's also a
toddler mom, and pregnant withher second baby right now too.
Yes.
Her website is fabulous.
(01:00):
She has so much knowledge.
The people that have worked withher have nothing but incredible
things to say about her.
You and I met on threads becausewe just started talking.
I was talking about the MessyMiddle and doing a podcast
episode and finding other peoplethat were ready to talk about
it.
And I love the way that youengage with the A DHD community.
(01:21):
It's been fascinating to watch.
I'm so glad to now know you.
Welcome to the podcast.
Thank you.
I'm excited to be here.
It was so great meeting you onthreads too.
That was my leap into trying toengage more on social media and
it was a great experiencegetting to meet you there.
Yeah.
It's neat to see you engagingyou have found a way to truly
(01:41):
create a community there and I'mvery impressed.
With what you've been doing sofar.
Thank you.
That means a lot to me.
Absolutely.
Tell us a little bit about you,where you're from and what
caught you into A DHD coaching.
I am from BC Canada, so quitefar away from you, but I am
self-employed.
Which I love.
I wouldn't have it any otherway.
I get to follow all my littleideas in tangents.
(02:04):
Maybe not all of them, but lotsof them.
I'm a cat mom, toddler mom, andpregnant.
And honestly, having a toddlermakes you relearn everything,
but practice all the tools andall the strategies.
In 2018, I started my master'sdegree in behavior analysis and
then I finished that in 2020,right in the pandemic and then
(02:25):
studied for my board exam tobecome a board certified
behavior analyst.
And that was like a really bigfour hour exam.
That was like climbing amountain, trying to prepare for,
finished that.
And of course, right after I waslike.
You know, I should do somethingnew.
On top of that, now that I'vedone all the school and the
tests, I should, look into thisother program of A DHD coaching
(02:46):
because I've always lovedtalking about A DHD with my
friends.
Seem to attract all the other aADHDers just naturally and.
It's just so enjoyable for me tolearn more about it I did my
coaching program with the mostamazing cohort of other ladies
that I get to still be incontact with, and it was such a
great sense of community and Ifound through that process, I've
(03:11):
just worked on integrating thetwo approaches.
So.
Behavior analysis is different,but what I learned through my
master's degree and my boardexam and my experience in that
field really helps inform how Ilook at things and how I work
with people.
So it's been really fun for meto explore how the two can
interact together and, just seewhat the next step is for me.
(03:32):
I'm never somebody who's happyjust doing one thing, so the
variety has been so helpful forme.
Yeah, preach.
It's like I get new businessideas every day and I'm like,
Megan, like you could do otherthings but keep it in the same
realm.
We've worked really hard tobuild this so, or.
Every new hobby, I couldmonetize this.
(03:54):
Oh my gosh.
You can actually have a hobbyand not monetize it, believe it
or not.
Yeah.
If you needed to hear that,you're welcome because sometimes
I need to hear that.
Yeah.
I've tried to keep them separatebecause then they're like low
pressure.
I can pick them up when I wantand drop them when I want, and.
Those are just for me.
But this has been something thatis like a hobby, but also it's
(04:15):
my income.
I enjoy it so much.
People with a DHD are some ofthe most fascinating people I've
ever met in my entire life.
Mm-hmm.
The people that truly wannaunderstand their brains and like
get to this next level ofexperiencing life because they
see the barriers, but wannaunderstand the barriers.
Mm-hmm.
It's really cool.
I mean, I'm not surprised Iended up here.
I was always that kid that waslike, but why?
But why?
Yeah.
(04:36):
And my entire education and nowcareers answering those
questions or digging into themmore and figuring out why, or
figuring out what the nextquestions are.
It needs to make sense.
It needs to make sense.
Yes.
Okay.
So I love this behavior analystpart of your life.
That's what you got yourmaster's degree in it.
(04:57):
Mm-hmm.
And from what I was looking aton the website, you help people
analyze their behavior and theirsurroundings.
So tell.
What you do as a behavioranalyst.
Okay.
And why that's important to whatyou do.
Yeah.
Tell us.
Tell us everything.
So behavior analysis looks atpatterns of behavior to figure
out why people do what they do.
If you're seeing a theme here,the why again and.
(05:20):
What supports people, what getsin their way and what makes
certain actions easier or harderin their life?
So I find that impacts mycoaching because we're not
focusing on fixing the personperson's not doing anything
wrong.
We are focusing on how can weset things up to accommodate
your needs, figure out what yourneeds are, figure out what's
important to you, and thendesign different aspects of your
(05:42):
life to support that.
I really enjoy looking at like.
Okay, what's already happening?
How do you naturally function?
And some people might see it aslike, but that's the problem.
I think we're most successfulwhen we look at our, our natural
rhythms and tendencies and likehow we do best and then build
off of that instead of tryingto, change who we are, on
(06:02):
smaller scale, an example wouldbe like, I'm never gonna be a
person who puts all my clothesaway perfectly all the time.
That's just not me.
And I figured that out.
So instead, I bought multiplelaundry baskets and put them
where I drop clothes.
And that made it so much easierbecause it's in sight and it's
so easy.
And I just went with wherethey're ending up naturally
instead of trying to shift.
(06:23):
Every part of how I'm doing thistask.
So on a larger scale, I thinksomething like that is
applicable to lots of people andsomething that we do a lot in
coaching and in behavioranalysis as well.
That's beautiful.
And to that point, we so oftencompare ourselves to other
people and then we feel like weneed to live up to this
expectation or this perceivedexpectation of what other people
(06:44):
need us to do.
Mm-hmm.
Which is too.
Pick up our clothes and put themaway perfectly.
Right.
That would mean I'm organized,except that we truly just need
to understand what could be goodenough so that it works in the
moment.
Yeah.
And we can be proud of doingsomething that works for us.
Yeah.
And what is actually importantto us, maybe that's not
important to you and it'stotally okay.
(07:05):
It's not worth spending theenergy on.
Yeah.
Oh my gosh.
Totally.
But we sometimes expand thatenergy because.
We think it's important toeveryone else, so we're like
it's gotta be important to metoo.
Yeah.
I do love that you speak tofinding your authentic voice and
your authentic self throughcoaching.
Tell us a little bit about whatyou mean by that.
(07:26):
I find just through my ownexperience and also the
experience of the people that Iwork with and my background in
behavioral analysis and workingwith different kids.
There's a lot of pressure inlife to show up as someone who's
like quote unquote normal orlike do what everyone else is
doing or there's a right way todo things.
(07:46):
And I find that over time, thatjust puts so much pressure on
you and leads to so muchmasking, which.
Sucks your energy.
Often by the time, especiallyfor late diagnosed people, by
the time where we get diagnosedoften as adults, especially for
women, it's hard to even figureout who we are anymore.
I'm really passionate abouthelping people figure out like
(08:06):
who they actually are, how theyactually like work.
Well, everybody has strengths.
Not compared to everybody else,but compared to yourself, you're
gonna have strengths of somesort.
And lots of people come to methinking they don't have any
strengths or they don't knowwhat they are.
So figuring out like what areyou passionate about?
What are your strengths?
How do you do best?
What makes you feel fulfilled inlife?
Really discovering like who youare as a person without that
(08:29):
outside pressure of who youthink you should be is something
that I'm really passionateabout.
It's hard to mask all the timeand to not feel clear on what's
important to you or what youlike, or you know, how you even
wanna spend your time.
That's beautiful.
I find myself asking a lotasking myself, what do I want?
(08:49):
Mm-hmm.
And oftentimes I am thinkingabout what I should do, should
all of these shoulds and all ofthese things I'm thinking about
what other people might expectfrom me.
And then I pause and I'm like,wait, what do I want?
And sometimes I don't actuallyknow the answer, which is an
important thing that I'mnoticing and I'm trying to
figure out.
(09:10):
Because oftentimes we are soconcerned with everyone else
that we don't ask ourselves.
Mm-hmm.
And then we do mask, we do tryto fit everyone else's mold of
what we think is right.
When you were talking aboutthat, I was thinking about, it
is so hard to sometimes figureout what you want.
And I think sometimes we can getstuck in that.
Goal setting cycle, like I haveto have something that I'm
working towards right now.
I have to be clear on what Iwant, even if you're in a period
(09:32):
of trying to figure it out.
Sometimes that can be a lot ofpressure.
Over the course of coaching, Ihave learned a lot about values,
and I have explored this concepta little bit more, which I
really like because instead ofit being like a destination like
I need to get here, it's more ofa compass so you can make
choices that move you in that.
Direction of the thing that youvalue.
(09:54):
And sometimes that freedom canbe so empowering.
Like I don't have to have it allfigured out right now, but I
know this is important to me,and this decision will be more
in line with that value andthat's still okay.
While I figure out what Iactually want in life.
I love that you were able toreframe that and talk about
values.
I actually had a therapist tellme to go and figure out what my
(10:14):
values were, and then I saw avideo on TikTok, hear Me Out the
other day.
And something I work on with myclients is our beliefs, like our
beliefs, fuel our thoughts andour thoughts then become actions
that we take on a regular basis.
But our beliefs come from ourvalues.
The values are the ones thatfuel the beliefs, and I thought
(10:34):
that was really valuable becauseoftentimes we don't think about
the values that we truly holddear.
Like what even is a value?
Yeah.
How does one discover theirvalues?
When I start working with peoplein coaching, I have a whole
bunch of different optionsbecause everybody learns.
Best differently.
Some people can get likeabsolutely stuck with open-ended
(10:55):
questions, but you give them twochoices and they're good.
So there's lots of differentfree values assessments online.
There's word banks where you canchoose which ones resonate the
most with you, or that you startby saying, okay, these ones
don't apply to me at all.
And work backwards until youhave a short list.
There's ones that display twodifferent cards and you select
which one resonates with youmore, and then you go from there
(11:18):
and it gives you a short list atthe end.
There's ones where you canreflect on a past experience
and, and go from that process offiguring out your values.
I think it, it's reallyindividual and depends on what
helps trigger that reflectiveprocess for you in a way that is
not so much pressure that youshut down.
Cool.
We'll drop one of those freeassessment quizzes in the show
(11:39):
notes, that way people can checkit out when you talk about
behavior analysis.
And values and working withpeople.
I'm curious about yourexperience with helping people
with clutter.
'cause that's something that youhelp people with as well.
Like the organization, thegetting to doing the thing
oftentimes.
Mm-hmm.
Well, A DHD coaches in generalwork with organization because
(12:00):
that is an executive functiondefect, right?
Mm-hmm.
That's something that we are notvery good at.
so first thought that comes tomind is that a lot of people are
very affected by the amount ofvisual stimulation in their
environment.
So for example, my spacereflects my brain if it's very
messy and there's stuffeverywhere.
I'm not sure which one is likethe initial part, whether it's
(12:21):
like my brain feels lettered,tangled.
It's hard to think and thereforelike it's hard to do anything.
Or if my environment is gettingaway from me first and therefore
like I just have a harder time.
'cause there's lots visible, butI find that dealing with some of
the clutter and the environmentis something actionable that I
can do even on a hard day.
Even if it's just starting withone thing.
(12:42):
Like I know this piece ofgarbage goes in the garbage.
I'm going to put it there, andif that's all I can do, that's
okay.
The other thing is that theenvironment triggers different
thoughts of things that we needto do and memories and whatnot.
So it's such an opportunity touse it strategically.
But in order to use itstrategically, you have to have
a.
A limit on the stuff that'svisible.
(13:02):
So I have never been a personwho's not gonna have some sort
of stuff on surfaces.
That's fine.
But I have been able to shiftthe stuff that I do have on
surfaces to help remind me ofthe the ways I want to spend my
time, or the things that areimportant to me, and I love
that.
In order to do that though, Ihave to be able to notice the
things that I am purposelyputting out versus the things
that end up.
Out anyways.
Right.
(13:22):
I find that a lot of people whoare struggling to manage clutter
are stuck in the decision makingprocess.
Like there's just so manyoptions, there's so many
decisions, and now we're frozen.
So breaking it down to, I knowyour ideal goal is to post those
and sell it on Facebookmarketplace, however that is
like.
A ton of steps, and maybe it'snot accessible right now.
Maybe we need to find a waythat's more accessible in order
(13:45):
to get that out of yourenvironment, if that's something
that's important to you, reallyseparating out what is my ideal
plan for this clutter versuslike what meets me where I'm at
(15:09):
right now.
Because the ideal is not helpinganybody if it's not happening.
I have sold things on Facebookmarketplace.
And I have also paused and justtaken like car loads of stuff to
donations, which have been agame changer.
The amount that I've been ableto release in one moment without
having to make 15 more decisionson it.
(15:31):
Yeah, it's been such a beautifulexperience and such a release in
a way that brings that samedopamine rush as.
Going to home goods and buyinghundreds of dollars worth of
things, right?
Like mm-hmm.
You get it in a different waybecause you are freeing up your
space.
Yeah.
In such a beautiful way.
I really think that ourenvironment affects what we do
(15:52):
and our ability to processthings and how we spend our
time.
And when you're bouncing fromthing to thing, which is so
common for us, a DHD years, it'salready hard.
To stick to it.
So if we're environment set upin a way that encourages that,
like jumping from thing to thingto thing and feeling so stuck,
that's only going to compoundthe situation for us.
Yeah.
When we are jumping from thingto thing, we are in this cycle
(16:15):
of stuck.
Even if we're feeling like,mm-hmm we're making movement and
we're doing things, it doesn't,we don't see progress.
Yeah, doing and progress aredefinitely two different things.
Took me a while to figure thatout, but yeah, it's brilliant.
It's brilliant.
Okay, so this season we'retalking about the messy middle,
and I define the messy middle asthe point from, point A to point
(16:38):
B, but like all of the grossnessin between, because we can see
the before and after pictures onInstagram.
Mm-hmm.
We see the people who havewritten the books.
Right.
Like, this is who I was and thisis who I am now.
But in between that there is alot of work to be done outside
of our comfort zone.
Mm-hmm.
And so often people hire a coachto go from point A to point B,
(17:00):
understanding that.
Well, I just want this, and Iwant it to be easy, but also we
don't necessarily trulyunderstand the grossness that
comes in between Sometimes itactually gets so much messier.
Before it gets better.
So in your experience workingwith people, tell us what it
looks like to go through themessy middle and how the hell do
(17:21):
we do it?
Yeah, the messy middle is a likean interesting concept.
I don't know if there's reallyan end to it.
When we set goals, we'reachieving those goals and
assuming like now we're good,but really.
Life is just a series of ups anddowns, and we will get to the
point where we feel for a momentwhere like, things are good,
we're in this slow state, we'remanaging well, and then life
(17:44):
happens, right?
Somebody gets sick or yourperfect routine gets thrown off,
or you know, growth in itself isuncomfortable most of the time
because change is uncomfortable.
It really stretches us.
I think that my biggest, messymiddle moments, there's two
clear ones that stand out to mein my life.
Number one, when I was inuniversity, that's when I got
(18:04):
diagnosed and it was a giant,messy middle.
I think that the only pauseswere like between semesters
where I was like, okay, I canbreathe again, and then you're
into the next one already.
So that time felt like, justtrying to keep your head above
water and it's so uncomfortableand not everything's going to be
perfect.
It's impossible to have thingsset up in your ideal way all the
(18:26):
time, as much as we'd like that.
The other time that really stoodout to me was after I had my
daughter, when it feels like allyour structure and everything
falls apart and you relearn fromthe very bottom of like, how do
I feed myself again?
How do I do anything becausenone of my supports, none of my
structure is there anymore, andtrying to figure out like I
(18:48):
can't work out under the idealcircumstances anymore.
How do I get back to moving mybody?
Because I know it helps mybrain.
Like you have to relearneverything.
I mean, that feels like theepitome of messy to me.
Yeah.
Because not only.
Are you like, you're notnecessarily learning a new skill
all the time and trying tochange in that way, but like the
(19:09):
skills you thought you had andthe things that you thought, and
you know, these ones are solidat least, and a rhythm for my
life.
Those were gone in bothsituations, so it really forced
a lot of growth and that isuncomfortable.
Yeah.
I wanna dive into what it meansto like notice the discomfort
because I think the way that Iused to do it, and I'm curious
if you can relate to this.
The way that I used to noticediscomfort is I would.
(19:32):
Feel obviously reallyuncomfortable, but like the
feeling for me is a gut feelingor like my chest will get really
tight or I will start tofrantically fix things or get
into this all or nothing mode oftrying to make things better.
And for example, my husband andI, we just moved to
Massachusetts and I previouslyowned a home where I had bins
(19:55):
and labels, and I had figuredout where everything goes in my
home and thought that I wouldvery easily be able to do that.
When we got here, but of courseI had to follow my own methods
and I had to think verystrategically and very hard
about making decisions.
It, there was no more autopilot.
Mm-hmm.
(20:15):
I couldn't go on autopilot mode.
I had to stay.
In this very decision makingmode, which has been very, very
uncomfortable, like, how do Imake these decisions moving
forward?
So really, I wanna know whensomeone feels stuck.
Mm-hmm.
And they're coming to you.
And you've been working togetherand they have made progress, how
(20:36):
do they get back on track again?
Right.
And this can happen.
I love these moments.
Okay, cool.
Awesome.
Yes, I do too.
So tell me about how youapproach it.
First of all, I wanna start offby saying like, it's so much
easier when you're not the onein the middle of it.
Like it's so much more clearwhen you're on the outside
looking in.
And that's why I'm totally finesaying like it's not always
clear for me in my life and Idon't think it ever will be.
(20:58):
'cause nobody's perfect.
You could still help otherpeople even if you haven't a
hundred percent mastered it inyour life without support.
Support is a great component ofit, but when I start working
with people, I tell them in likeour first call, there will be a
point where you're not movingforward or you feel like things
have dropped off or something inlife gets in the way.
And this is actually the mostvaluable part of coaching
(21:20):
because if everything's perfectand you're good, that's not
life.
And then if that's happening ourentire coaching package and then
we're done.
You haven't actually workedthrough the problem solving
process of what those like bigfeelings and like.
Oh my God, I feel like I failedand now like, what's the point
of trying again because I'm justgonna fail again.
All these thoughts that arecoming up and your past
experiences impacting, like howyou feel about it.
(21:42):
That is the point where I thinkcoaching is the most valuable
because you can support theprocess.
That's where the problem solvinghappens.
Like, okay, this wasn'tsustainable on a hard life
moment or like on your hardestdays, so what needs to change?
Is it that what you were doingno longer works?
Sometimes it no longer works,but usually it's a matter of
like we have haven't accountedfor the low capacity days or the
(22:04):
days when everything ischallenging and we are now
telling ourselves that it'sdropped off and there's no point
in continuing when realistic.
We need to plan for those days'cause they will happen.
ADHDers have varying capacity.
Almost everybody I've coachedwith has days where like the
brain won't brain.
It's just a part of it.
And we can account for that andwork through it, but the more
(22:24):
opportunities we have topractice those moments where it
feels like everything has fallenapart and how are we going to
restart the more prepared peopleare for after coaching.
When those moments happen andthey're on their own.
It's beautiful.
It reminded me of a freebie youhave on your website that I
wanna highlight, have you takencare of your basic needs, And it
reminded me to drink water.
(22:45):
That moment.
It's interesting because onthose days that we feel like our
brain can't brain, we're mostdysregulated, those are the days
that we're the most hard onourselves.
Mm-hmm.
And those are the days thatwe're not gonna be able to get
the most done.
Yeah.
Which is fascinating and it'sjust such an interesting thing
to notice.
It's so easy as an A DHD coachto sometimes say.
(23:07):
Oh my gosh.
It's hard for me to notice thosethings because I focus on this.
I help people through it, butthe introspection you need to be
a coach for yourself is a wholenother level.
In fact, I don't think that youshould be, because while you are
the expert on what works andwhat you need.
Other people are always going tobring you a new perspective.
(23:29):
Mm-hmm.
That's why we listen topodcasts.
That's why we talk to otherpeople with a adhd.
Mm-hmm.
And coaches need coaches.
Yeah.
I could say that until the cowscome home, because I could say
something all day long and Imight be living it, but it's not
until someone else says it to methat I'm like, yes, implement
that.
Again.
When you're hiring an A DH ADHDcoach that also has a DHD.
I try to really model to peoplethat I still met, try to manage
(23:52):
my A DHD.
That's just, I'm not trying tofix it.
It's a part of who I am and howI work.
And I'm not gonna say it's asuperpower'cause I hate that
there are strengths and thereare significant struggles.
But if I can model to people,like we're gonna have those hard
days and they're not gonnanecessarily go away, but our
measure of success shouldn't.
B, that we never have.
Hard days.
All right.
And like, I'm still going tohave my own executive
(24:14):
dysfunction.
I'm going to forget what toolswork for me.
And then somebody will say itand be like, oh yeah.
The amount of times my therapisthas asked me like, well, what
would you tell somebody in acoaching call if they said the
same thing to you?
And I'm like, yeah, right.
Yes.
Yes.
and it's also such an importantaspect of just having more
people with A DHD in your life,so you don't feel like you're
(24:36):
going at this alone.
That just brings me back tothat, you know, your experience
on social media and bringingpeople together and asking
people what does work and whatworks for them, because it's
such a great idea to understand.
You can go online and find abazillion strategies and tools
and whatnot, and I think there'sso much more to it than just
(24:56):
knowing what the tools are andalso getting new ideas and
having ideas for starting pointsis so valuable because maybe you
just haven't looked at it fromthat perspective before.
Or maybe somebody sharing theirexperience can help you be like.
Oh yeah, like that makes so muchsense to me.
I'm gonna try it and have hopethat there's stilts things that
I haven't tried that can workbefore.
(25:18):
The novelty is always acomponent that makes things a
little bit easier for our brainsto manage.
So it's important to recognizethat too.
But you know, just having astarting point when it feels
hard to just design it on yourown can be so helpful and I
found those posts really helpfulfor that.
I really enjoyed like lookingthrough.
Ambitious probably, but likelooking through everybody's
(25:38):
responses and trying to themesand make a list of like, okay,
here's some things that came upmultiple times for people.
How do I get more exercise, geta dog that came up like well
over 30 times at least, maybemore.
But.
That's not ever something thatwould've been on a, like a list
online of how to work out moreconsistently.
(25:58):
Yeah, totally.
Oh my gosh.
People with a DHD are so darncreative.
We have a natural tendency to beso creative as a d, ADHD is, and
also when you have a lifetime oftrying to do things and the
right way, we've put so manyboundaries on ourselves of even
though that might work, I'm noteven gonna try it because it's
not the normal way to do it orthe right way to do it.
(26:18):
One thing I end up doing a lotin coaching is like.
Giving people permission toexperiment and find things that
work for them.
It doesn't matter if it doesn'tmake any sense.
Sometimes I work sitting on thefloor because my body is most
comfortable there.
It does not make sense to mostpeople.
I'm not gonna sit at a desk allday because it literally is
uncomfortable and hurts my body,but I can't think in one place
all day, and that's okay if Itry to.
(26:40):
Sit at my desk all the time anddo what everyone else does.
That will result in one of theleast productive days ever for
me.
So like the process of givingyourself permission, and if you
can't give yourself permission,having a community of people
that encourages you to give it atry and experiment and see if I
tried this, what happens?
That is so encouraging because.
(27:02):
I have seen so many thingsonline too that are people
saying, that's never gonna workfor me.
I'm never gonna try that becausethat's never gonna work for me.
And sometimes because we seethat they have a ADHD too,
mm-hmm.
We assume that, oh well, if it'snot gonna work for them, it's
not gonna work for me.
Or vice versa.
We see that something's workingfor one person.
Then it doesn't work for me.
(27:24):
So now I'm like shaming myselfbecause I'm not as good as you.
Right?
Like there's so many aspects ofthat.
But I do appreciate tryingsomething, whether you think
it's gonna work or not.
And truthfully, if you thinkit's not gonna work, then.
You're right.
Mm-hmm.
Because you have decided thatupfront.
But if you're open to learningand to see what could work for
you, that can make all thedifference in the world, but
(27:46):
that is also building thatmomentum to actually take the
action and to noticing how totake the action.
Then to that point too, thedecision, sometimes we have so
many tools and so many things inour back pocket that we don't
try any of them and say theydon't work because.
We've had too many decisions.
(28:06):
Haven't actually tried any ofthem because mm-hmm.
We have too much knowledge.
Yeah.
And now we don't know where tostart or our expectation is in
order for something to be asuccessful tool, it has to work
all the time.
This is another thing that Istart out with that I don't
believe that it's possible for atool to be effective all the
time for an ADHDer We needenough tools that we can cycle
(28:27):
through when something stopsworking and we have another
option on a short list.
Not like something that's goingto send us into like decision
paralysis.
But we need enough options so wecan meet ourselves where we're
at, instead of trying to bullyourselves into being the perfect
person for this tool.
The tool is supposed to help us.
It's like clothes.
Clothes are supposed to fit ourbodies, or we're not supposed to
change our bodies to fit theclothes.
(28:48):
And I think the same thing workswith tools and our brains.
Yeah.
And also taking ourselves out ofa box that we need to check to
see if it works or not.
I was just talking to a clienttoday and she expressed just
wanting to get outside.
what if you are walking to yourcar?
Does that count as beingoutside?
Can you notice these otherexperiences where you are
outside?
And maybe you take a deep breathto enjoy it and give yourself a
(29:11):
little bit of grace and creditfor doing it.
It's that.
All or nothing mentality.
Oftentimes we're like, well, ifI go outside, I need to go
outside and I need to breathe 10times.
I need to do four squats.
And then I can say that I didoutside, right?
I did the outside, and now I cango in the inside, but we can
actually let it be.
The easiest thing possible, butwe tend to overcomplicate it.
(29:34):
And then if we get it wrongonce, then we're gonna get it
wrong forever.
But truthfully, you're gonna getit wrong until you get it right.
And if, if you're not alreadydoing the thing, that can be a
really big leap.
For your brain, for so manyadhd, momentum is so key, and
this ties in the behavioranalysis side.
Too often we are trying, andthen we're punishing ourselves
(29:54):
by being extremely critical andshaming ourselves for not doing
it perfectly.
Those are not the behaviors thatare gonna increase in the
future.
Like when we're beatingourselves up, of course it's not
working because why would it?
It's uncomfortable andmiserable, right?
If we can shift our bar of whatcounts and feel the win, maybe
that's just sitting on the deck.
So you're still gettingsunshine, but it's not like
(30:15):
going outside.
Or maybe it's, you know, I'mjust gonna go walk out my door
and then walk back in, and thatcounts and that's fine.
Often I find once we're actuallyin the space, we wanna continue
the thing.
But when we set the bar so highto even start, like, I can only
start if it's exactly this way.
It's so challenging.
It just reminded me of noticingthe progress.
(30:37):
So coming back to ourperfectionist mindset and trying
to incorporate this ideal, ifyou are striving for a value or
if you do have a goal or anintention in mind is starting to
see that now.
So when I was still in Colorado,one of the reasons why I wanted
to move to Massachusetts isbecause it's super rural and you
can see the stars.
Like galaxies, like the way youcan see the stars here is
(30:59):
amazing.
And that was one of the thingslike I can't wait for the
opportunity to see the stars.
And my daughter had thisexercise she had to do for
school where we had to gooutside and look at the stars
and look at the constellations.
And there was one night we wentout and it was cloudy.
And I was like, see no stars.
You can't see the stars here.
So like obviously we came insideand I started to go out more
(31:21):
often and I was like, they'reincredible here.
Mm-hmm.
I just haven't taken the time tonotice them.
Yeah.
Because I feel like there's thisthing I need to achieve and to
do in order to get to this endpoint that I'm looking for.
To relate this back toorganizing too, when you are.
Starting to get organized anddecluttered in your home.
(31:41):
You are not going to see thestars right away, but you could
notice that you've put thescissors in a place that future
you is gonna go look for themwhen you're trying to find them.
And that is a star right there.
Yeah.
And you could notice that youactually come back to a project
that you started.
And you're like, oh, look atthis.
This is different.
And you start to see thesethings and this evidence of you
(32:04):
experiencing this life you wantto, because you've taken the
time to notice.
Yeah.
So I appreciate that trigger.
I have so many thoughts come upwhile you were saying that.
this's, most recent in my headthat came up was the concept of
glimmers.
I worked with a client once whoreally struggled with the idea
of gratitude because it feltvery like forced and artificial.
But she really connected withthe concept of like glimmers.
(32:24):
And it can just be like amoment.
It can be seeing a few stars inthe sky that's mostly cloudy and
that's okay.
And I have found this like shiftbecause we have a negativity
bias and that at one point washelpful.
Our brains are trying to keep ussafe.
It's trying to help us avoid thelion that's trying to eat us.
Right now, of course, there'sstress in all sorts of areas,
and we have to put a little bitof extra effort into training
(32:47):
our brain to notice those small,enjoyable things in life.
The other thing that came tomind noticing is the very first
step, and so many people come tome and they're like, I've
noticed that blah, blah, blah,blah, and I don't know what to
do about it, and I don't knowhow to start working on it.
And I try to encourage'em.
I'm like, well, you've alreadydone, you've already done the
first step, because if you can'tnotice it, it's.
(33:09):
It's impossible to change.
Then you just start noticing itfaster and closer to when it
actually happens, until you'renoticing in the middle and able
to do something about it.
Yeah.
That is it.
That's what we work on too.
It's noticing, and when younotice, you start to get curious
naturally as a human.
Mm-hmm.
Understanding why is thishappening?
Because when you notice you'redoing it once, it's like, oh,
(33:32):
that's interesting, and then younotice you're doing it again and
again and again.
Mm-hmm.
It's so fascinating to then say,well, why is this happening?
Like why am I doing this andwhat do I do to get beyond this
now?
How do I notice to the pointthat I'm changing and I'm
starting to understand that thisisn't what I want anymore?
Yeah.
And figuring out why is soessential.
(33:54):
And again, this ties thebehavior analysis back in, but
figuring out like all behaviorshave a function.
There's a reason why we're doingit, and if we can really get
down to the root of like what itdoes for us, because if it
wasn't doing something for us,it wouldn't be continuing, then
that helps us figure out what todo instead or what some other
options that might meet the sameneed are.
Yes.
(34:14):
Oh my gosh, so much.
Yes.
Like the way we approach ourclutter keeps ourselves safe,
believe it or not.
Like none of us want theclutter.
But our reactions to it keepourselves safe in the moment.
Yeah, in the moment.
Not long term, but in themoment, which is half the battle
right there.
Yeah.
So much of what we do is justkeeping ourselves safe and our
brain doesn't want us to besuccessful.
(34:36):
It wants us to keep ourselvessafe.
That is just our naturalinclination.
The definition of what successis has changed over time too.
It doesn't make sense for yourbrain to cling on to successful
because it's such a shiftingbar.
10 years ago, my idea of successis drastically different than
what it is now, and that's okay.
In order to be successful, youhave to stay safe, so it is
(34:57):
still helpful, even if it'smaybe not having an effect in
your life that you would ideallywant.
It's identifying new ways tokeep yourself safe, reminding
yourself that you're safe.
I love that there's otheroptions.
Other options.
That's awesome.
Okay.
Tell us a little bit about howpeople can find you.
Well, my website has contactinformation for me.
(35:17):
I show up the most on threadsover any other social media
platform, mostly because itdoesn't have 50 million steps to
showing up on it.
But that's a really great placeto find me if you are on that.
Otherwise, Instagram is also agood way, and those will both be
linked in the show notes.
two things that I have on the goright now.
I have a few spots forone-to-one A DHD coaching, and
(35:38):
that's something I'll alwayshave open.
And then I also have a new offerthat I've been working on, an
executive functioning profile,which is more of like a little
intro to.
What your strengths are and whatareas that might need some
support are, and how those canwork together to set up some
strength based strategies.
This is a snapshot into how youwork best and some specific
(35:59):
questions in a questionnaire.
So it's not gonna be like, dothis and this will be the magic
solution, which I don't even dothat in coaching, but here is
the starting point.
Here are some options that mightwork for you or a way to
understand why certain thingsare hard and.
Why certain things are easy.
For example, I have a fewcoaching clients right now'cause
this is a part of my co coachingoffer as well, that really
(36:20):
struggle with task initiation.
But then they have a strength ofstaying focused.
So now that's led to anunderstanding that the starting
is the hard part.
But once they start it, they'regood.
It's a much shorter amount oftime that they have to
experience that discomfort forand experience that resistance
for before they get into thepart where they can just flow.
So this can be thought of aslike a roadmap, a starting
(36:41):
point, and then if people want,I have an optional single
coaching session to help givemore individualized examples or
specifically talk about yourlife and barriers that you think
might come up if you try thosethings and work through the
results together.
That's beautiful.
any last minute thoughts thatyou wanted to share with the
audience before you part us?
Maybe just a few of the thingsthat I have found really have
(37:04):
stood out to me the most out ofmy, A DHD experience.
There's such a focus onconsistency in life.
I encourage everybody to shifttheir perspective to persistence
because like we're talkingabout, there's gonna be things
that come up, you're gonna dropoff.
You're not gonna be able to dothe same thing every single day
for the rest of your life.
And being able to shift to,like, my success is being able
(37:26):
to pick this back up when Inotice it falls off.
Such an important thing to learnas an A DHD and also baby steps
count 1% better is great, and itdoesn't have to happen every
single day for it to be 1%better.
You can zoom out and see overthe course of, you know, the
week, the month.
Maybe you're doing the thingmore often or maybe you're
(37:47):
challenging those thoughts moreoften, and that is still
progress.
That's still a win even if youhave an off week or two weeks or
whatever.
I love that.
Baby steps is still progress ABto freaking ly.
Cool.
Thank you.
We forget that.
We do.
We do.
It's not, I forget that.
Still it up.
Yes.
We do still have to remindourselves that, and it's good to
(38:08):
hear it from other people andthat has been the persistence
piece of it has been the onlyreason why I still have this
podcast and continue to grow mycoaching business is like coming
back to what I know works me andbuilding off of that.
Me too.
Me too.
I remember when it was just theexpectation was I have to do it
all the time for it to count andunlearning.
That took some time, but nowknowing that like my experience
(38:31):
is still valid, even if I dropit off and pick it up a little
bit and it flows with the restof my life, that can still be
success and.
Honestly, it's so empoweringbecause life is not the same
every day forever.
Yeah.
Especially with kids.
Especially with hormones,especially with everything that
comes up preach.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Thank you so much for your timetoday and your expertise, and I
(38:54):
hope if this resonated with youat all, you go check out Anisha
and all that she has to offer.
Thank you for having me.
It was so much fun talking toyou, and I will chat with you on
Threads, I'm sure.
Yes, absolutely.
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