January 20, 2025 • 54 mins
Wishing you a joyful and reflective Martin Luther King Jr. Day! Let’s honor his legacy by continuing to spread love, understanding, and equality in all we do. ❤️
Join Paige & Lindsay's small group: https://stan.store/Mindfulasamother
Follow them on tiktok: TIKTOK
Follow them on Instagram: INSTAGRAM
Join Megs' Organizing an ADHD Brain Membership: https://www.mindfulmegs.com/thecollective
USE CODE: PODCAST to save $5 on your first month
In this episode, the host talks to Paige and Lindsay from 'Mindful as a Mother.' They discuss organizing strategies for ADHD minds, parenting neurodivergent children, and understanding the nervous system. The conversation highlights their personal experiences and expertise in making resources accessible for ADHD and autistic parents. Paige and Lindsay share practical tips for creating structured environments and the importance of self-regulation. They also emphasize the significance of communication and letting go of perfectionism in parenting. The episode ends with information on their small group courses designed to support parents in similar journeys.
03:24 Meet Paige and Lindsay
05:14 Parenting Challenges and Strategies
12:07 Low Demand Parenting and Nervous System Responses
17:28 Communication and Organizing with ADHD
24:53 Navigating Parenting with Neurodivergent Children
27:44 Navigating Parenting with Openness and Accountability
28:39 Generational Differences in Parenting
29:18 Balancing Business, ADHD, and Parenting
30:34 Life Hacks for Staying Organized
34:56 Empowering Partners in Parenting
38:44 Encouraging Kids to Clean Their Rooms
45:53 Promoting Autonomy and Life Skills
Book a 20-minute call to see if COACHING is a good fit for you: Megs Calendar
^If you tried to book a call and couldn't, it's all fixed!
Join the Organizing an ADHD Brain COMMUNITY: Organizing an ADHD Brain on Circle
Get your Free DOPAMINE MENU download OrganizinganADHDbrain.com/dopaminemenu
The TO DO list Daily Planner is available here! TO DO List Daily Planner
The ULTIMATE Recycling & Disposal Guide: Disposal Guide
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
MacBook Pro Microphone (00:00):
Hey, beautiful people.
(00:01):
Welcome back to another episodeof organizing an ADHD brain.
I'm so excited to introduce youto Paige and Lindsay.
Today, I originally met them onTik TOK.
I'll dive into that story in theinterview, but we are diving
into all things, not onlyorganizing, but also parenting
and understanding your ownnervous system.
(00:21):
And how it can make such a worldof a difference for you and your
kids.
I can speak from my own personalexperience.
I've taken.
Paige and Lindsay's course, andit was incredible and I'm a huge
promoter of it.
So if you want to reach out andask me more questions.
Absolutely.
But I'll put all of their linksand information below.
(00:43):
It's funny because in the showwe talk about cleaning your room
and today.
I was insistent that my girlscleaned their room, but I didn't
give them a timeframe.
I was just like, Hey, let's getit done today.
Today's the day we were bodydoubling by doing other things
around the house.
And it's hilarious because I hadforgotten who I heard it from.
And it was literally thisinterview that Paige and her
(01:07):
family clean on Sundays togetheras a form of body doubling I
talked last week a little bitabout.
Communicating with my husband.
And how I've learned that.
I do have a lot of control overa lot of the things that
happened in our house.
And.
I don't think I fully knew thatlike now, obviously now that I
know that it's very apparent,like there's.
(01:30):
Yes.
I, yes.
But also.
I don't think I realize how muchcontrol I feel like I have over
my kids' rooms.
I've asked them what theywanted.
But for the most part, I askother kids more often what they
want than I do with my own kids.
So there was some realization inthat not only today, but
(01:52):
listening to this episode.
So I just want you to know asI'm doing this podcast, I have I
figured out the organizingstuff.
Right.
My coach.
That's what I do.
That's what I dive into.
I want to learn so much more.
And I still have ADHD and I'mstill trying to be the best
parent that I can.
(02:12):
I'm still learning how tocommunicate, not only with my
kids, but with my husband in away that works for us.
And that's a big learning curve.
And so last week's episode andthis week's episode.
These are, these are prettyvulnerable for me because, it's
been a, it's a learning curvefor me too.
And so as I'm learning now, asI'm growing, I want to be
(02:34):
learning and growing with you.
We're going to keep talkingabout organizing.
That's what I do.
but this is a crucial aspect ofit.
I know two podcasts in a row oncommunication, but it's huge.
There's so much we can learn.
By learning how to talk aboutour feelings.
I know sometimes I can explainsomething in my head perfectly,
(02:54):
but when I try to put it intowords, it either comes out wrong
or it's not conveyed in the waythat I meant it to be conveyed.
And so.
Continuing to work through that,especially in a family setting
and a family dynamic is reallycrucial for the success of
everyone.
If you enjoy this episode, don'tforget to subscribe, share it
(03:16):
with a friend and leave areview.
It helps the podcast reach somany more listeners like you.
Let's get into it.
Megs (03:23):
I'm so excited to introduce you to Paige and
Lindsay today.
I just recently got done takingtheir course.
they are known as mindful as amother, they're best friends,
and they're both therapists,Paige, you want to go first and
tell us a little bit about whoyou are, a little bit about your
background
Paige (03:39):
Yeah, so my name is Paige Bruce, and I'm a one half of
Mindful as a Mother.
so we highly value Makingresources affordable for ADHD
and autistic parents, whetheryou are yourself or you have
children that are.
And so we have created aplethora of online resources and
ongoing small groups to helpteach parents how to embrace
(04:01):
themselves and their kidsexactly as they show up in the
world.
We all know traditionalparenting just doesn't hit.
I live in Idaho, which is aboutthree and a half hours away from
Lindsay.
We met online In 2020 onInstagram and became besties.
We had two separate companiesdoing the exact same thing.
So we just joined forces.
(04:23):
I have three children, 10,seven, and just barely six.
So they're not as close as theyseem.
And I'm expecting my fourth.
I have a private practice inIdaho that specializes in
working with ADHD and autisticchildren and then also anxiety
because a lot of us, grown womenwho are late diagnosed are often
misdiagnosed or co diagnosedwith anxiety disorders.
(04:45):
Like you got to know a lot aboutall of it to figure out what's
going on.
I have ADHD and then I have anADHD husband.
So all of our kids are spicy insome form.
I have one that's formallydiagnosed with ADHD only.
And then I just recently had herevaluated for dyslexia as we're
navigating some neededadditional supports.
(05:07):
And then I have another onethat's formally diagnosed with
ADHD and autism with a PDAprofile.
Megs (05:14):
When did you find out that you had ADHD?
Paige (05:17):
I really, gosh, I can't say that there's one specific
time, but it just made sense.
my oldest has always been spicyfrom the very beginning.
There's like countless storieson our podcast about how she
would break through locks, Climbbillions of things like she
could climb before she couldwalk and it would stress the
(05:37):
parents at the park out becauseshe'd be doing like the monkey
bars and I'm just vibing andthey're like, oh my god.
and I just, the way sheunderstands the world made so
much sense to me that once I.
I got my degree and I startedworking with children and I
specialize in this.
I was like, Oh, that's why itmakes sense for her, but also
(05:57):
that's why I understand how sheperceives the world so much is
because I also have it.
And then my husband just alsovery much so has it.
That's probably why we weredrawn to each other.
Megs (06:07):
I feel that my husband has ADHD too.
And sometimes he listens to mypodcast.
I'm like, what did you take awayfrom it?
And he's like, I don't know.
It was good though.
Paige (06:16):
Yep.
Megs (06:16):
All right.
Lindsay, what about you?
Lindsay (06:18):
My name is Lindsay.
I'm the second half of mindfulas a mother.
I am in Utah and I have a smallprivate practice where I see
mostly kids who areneurodivergent, but I also see
some adults and I have threekids.
My son is nine and he is AuDHD.
So ADHD and autism.
(06:40):
I have twins who are six.
six and they have not beenformally diagnosed, but I'm sure
there is one in their future forADHD.
And then I have been formallydiagnosed with ADHD and I self
identify as having autism.
I'm still trying to decide if Iwant to pursue the testing or
not, but if it's like Paigesaid, and since I've started,
(07:02):
Acknowledging that about myself.
It's actually made my life somuch easier because I've been
able to unburden in a lot ofways.
My husband has ADHD as well.
So we're just one big neurospicy family.
Megs (07:13):
I love that you're normalizing it too.
I'm fascinated with what you'vebeen doing, And I found you all
on Tik TOK and I think, one ofyou had commented on one of my
videos about, ADHD organizingand you were like, I'm so
excited to dive in and I'm like,Oh my gosh.
And then I dived into yourvideos and I'm like, this is all
making so much sense.
(07:33):
And it really started clickingin a whole new way.
So how long have you beenidentifying the both of you as
mindful as a mother, one halfand the other?
Lindsay (07:42):
so we officially got an LLC and at the beginning of
2023, but before then we werelike teaching and doing stuff
together and had Yeah.
We called it the thing.
Paige (07:52):
were dating
Megs (07:53):
dabbling.
Paige (07:54):
since 2021.
Lindsay (07:57):
sure that it's a good, fit to start a business.
Megs (08:00):
so that you could spend the rest of your lives together
helping other mamas and
Paige (08:04):
We are.
We're business married.
That's what we talk about.
Megs (08:08):
I like that.
it's a good
Lindsay (08:09):
We even celebrate our anniversary.
Megs (08:11):
You do! What do you do to celebrate?
Lindsay (08:15):
we're usually on podcast weekend.
It's what we call it when we goaway to record a bunch of
podcasts.
So normally we just go to dinneror eat snacks or I don't know
what we do
Paige (08:24):
Hang out, watch trash TV.
Lindsay (08:48):
these resources affordable to and accessible to
all parents who areneurodivergent and or have
neurodivergent kids.
Because what I found when my sonwas going through the diagnosis
process, we knew At about threeand a half, maybe sooner that
autism was very likely.
And when I would look forresources and I looked into my
(09:10):
training as a therapist it wasall mostly like traditional
parenting stuff and behavioraltechniques that didn't always
work.
And so I knew I was looking forsomething different.
And then once I found it, I waslike, I need everybody to be
able to find this when they needit.
Paige (09:28):
and mine is very similar.
We have different, almost whatwe call origin stories that kind
of lead to the same mission thathelp complement each other
because a big portion of mine isI naturally am very attuned to
children in general, especiallyneurodivergent children, because
that's how I operate in theworld myself.
And so there's this gap in.
(09:50):
in.
the communication between parentand child when you are
neurodivergent and or yourchildren.
And it led me to find a lot ofparents who just felt like they
weren't good parents and theydidn't find joy in parenthood.
And for me, that's like my mainmission when I started my own
side company was really helpingparents know that what they're
(10:14):
experiencing isn't.
Just them and that traditionalparenting really doesn't hit
when you are neurodivergent oryou have neurodivergent kids So
and then I want them to have joyin parenthood while also
watching these children thrive
Megs (10:28):
That's incredible.
I, I was hesitant to sign up foryour small group at first
because I was like, do I havetime to do this?
Is this, what I need?
I knew it was something that Iwanted to do, but I think it's
so incredibly affordable.
And when I was sitting in yoursmall group for the first time
in the first week and listeningto other mothers talk about
their stories, talk about theirexperiences with motherhood,
(10:48):
including yourselves, and thatyou show up so vulnerable and
you have a lot of answersbecause you've been through a
lot of this stuff and you'vedone a lot of the work, but I
remember sitting there and I hadtears in my eyes because I
finally felt like I wasn't alonein a lot of the different things
that I do, including, but notlimited to the emotional
(11:09):
outbursts that can happen as amom.
That is something that I saw mymom go through.
And then I vowed myself like,that's not something I'm going
to do as a mom.
And then lo and behold, This issomething that we experience as
moms because it's a nervoussystem response.
It's not necessarily you justwant to get pissed off at them.
(11:29):
and so I have looked at my ownparenting journey So much more
differently now after takingyour course than I ever did
before.
And so first, I just want tothank you thank you for putting
yourselves out there in a waythat is vulnerable, that is
helping people, just change someof the ways that we look at
(11:52):
things.
So, as you were working withyour own kids and trying
different things that weren'tnecessarily like the, the things
that they tell you to do inschool, when did you start to
learn that there were differentthings out there that you could
try that would work?
and you can dive into the lowdemand parenting.
I've loved listening to yourpodcast on that.
I thought that was fascinating.
(12:13):
I'd love to hear where thatjourney began and where you are
now based on some of the thingsthat you've just tried.
Lindsay (12:18):
for me, my son was really young and I worked with
kids, at that time and I wastrying some of the things I was
recommending, like parents do athome.
And I was like, this isn'tworking.
What is, what am I doing wrong?
And so I started Googling causethat's what people do.
When they can't figure stuffout.
And I found a little help, butnot really.
(12:39):
And then I learned aboutpolyvagal theory, which is the
nervous system.
And so then I was able to likereally dive into how the nervous
system works and how it's moresensitive for neurodivergent.
people and how we can parentfrom that perspective.
And it all evolved.
So it's I'm still alwayslearning and growing.
we're constantly both Paige andI reading and learning new
(13:01):
things we're never done.
But as things have progressed.
And with social media, that'sbeen helpful.
I've been able to just continueto adapt and learn.
Megs (13:11):
Do you remember a specific time where you tried something
that was totally not what the,the typical things tell you to
do and you're like, holy crap,it could work if we try new and
different things.
Lindsay (13:24):
Yeah.
So instead of, let's say, I'mtrying to think of a good
example.
Oh, with the low demandparenting, instead of me being
on top of my child all the timebeing like, you need to do this,
you need to do this, you need todo this, I tried to take as many
demands out as possible with themorning time because he's having
a really hard time getting toschool.
(13:46):
And it actually helped that hehad more freedom and flexibility
to choose the way he wanted tomove through his morning
routine.
and it was like game changing atthe time because he was in
preschool and I was literallyhaving to carry him into
preschool.
Every single day, kicking,screaming, crying.
And then I would feel terriblewhen I left because he was still
crying and he would eventuallycalm down and be totally fine,
(14:08):
but it was just so exhausting.
And then my nervous system wasdysregulated starting the day.
And I remember just being like,Oh, like I don't actually need
to do any of that like I canjust let him like do it in his
way and set things up that workfor him.
And it's so much easier andthere's not a battle involved.
Megs (14:28):
It's fascinating.
Paige, what about you?
Oh
Paige (14:32):
Yeah, I would say I started parenting when I was
very young.
I was 14 when my oldest sisterhad her first daughter.
and she wasn't able to care forher.
So she lived in my home and Iwas raised by my grandparents
already.
So this kid's greatgrandparents.
My niece's great grandparents.
so they didn't really have theflexibility or the energy to
(14:53):
care for her.
So I did a lot of the day to dayparenting, and there's one
incident where she Was beingdefiant.
That's my quote unquote forpeople that can't see me,
defiant.
and not doing the thing that Iasked her to do and I flicked
her in the forehead and Istarted sobbing.
and it was like from that momenton that I was like, this just
(15:15):
isn't right.
This isn't okay.
And so I started just reading alot of literature around
parenting, like parenting withlove and logic.
the whole brain child, like 14,15 years old, I'm like.
sipping hot cocoa at our librarycafe.
this is my life.
Megs (15:32):
Yeah.
Paige (15:33):
but then my oldest was born and it was night and day.
Cause I had an in home daycarecause I've always been
passionate about the safe careof children and then to provide
information to parents.
So I had low income familiesthat we would provide.
Child care for and then I wouldprovide additional information
on their development and how wecan support them and there was
(15:53):
one kiddo.
That is about six months youngerthan my daughter and I refer to
her as a unicorn because it justwas like night and day
different.
if you told this child no.
They did not do the thing.
Like this kid could sit at atable at 15 months old with
markers and crayons,unsupervised, and never draw on
(16:13):
the wall.
Like I was beside myself inmeantime, I'm like finding these
big intruder locks and like deadbolting things.
And one time my kid broke ourliving room window and then
climbed over a thorny bush andwas like running the streets.
So I just started adapting theenvironment where I was like,
this isn't working.
Clearly it works with thischild, which is great.
(16:36):
Not working with my child andI'm not sure why yet, but then
just adapting the environmentand adapting my responses to be
more encompassing to what I feltlike she needed.
And if we were in a place, likeI called it creating a yes
space, so there were certainthings in order for it to be a
yes space that I couldn't havein that space.
(16:57):
Because she would build laddersto get out of windows and
things.
So I don't have any of thethings that we can stack, right?
So now we're in this place whereshe's free to learn and develop.
But it's tailored to her and herspecific needs and it just
continued from there and I neverknew that my parenting was
really different and until I diddive more into Counseling
(17:22):
because I had children before Igot my master's degree
Megs (17:25):
That's so neat.
I, I wanted to invite you onhere.
I know I talk a lot aboutorganizing and ADHD, but one
thing that's really helped me asI'm communicating with my kids
when it comes to keeping theirroom clean or organized or
having them help up around thehouse or do chores or do things
to help them be involved in thehouse, I find that I'm able to
(17:46):
communicate with themdifferently because of the class
I took with you, which is one ofthe things Top things that I
have to work with clients on isthe communication aspect of
organizing and letting go andfiguring out how to create
systems in your house that workbecause you can do it, but
(18:06):
oftentimes they fail because thelack of communication and
honestly, just not understandinghow to speak to someone so that
they will listen.
And so that has helped metenfold when it comes to your
course.
I think it's fascinating.
one thing that you talk about inthe course is.
You know our nervous systemresponse and instead of saying
(18:26):
hey Here's how you work withyour kids on their nervous
system response.
You say hey, what about yours?
How do you handle your ownnervous system response?
I thought that was incrediblyvaluable because I think
sometimes we show up as adultsand we're like, we are what we
are Right now we can help ourkids But the truth is there's so
much that we can learn to helpourselves because there's so
(18:48):
much that we don't know.
You From the way that we grew upfrom the way that our parents
didn't know how to parent us.
And so why is that somethingthat you focus on?
I know why, but can you tell usa little bit more about why you
focus on, your own triggers andyour own responses to different
things that your kids are doingbefore you dive into how to work
with your kids?
Lindsay (19:08):
I learned this one the hard way.
So I have a lot in my past, alot of developmental trauma.
So just trauma throughoutchildhood.
And I always knew what kind ofparent I wanted to be and how I
wanted to parent my kids.
And then I learned about theirnervous systems and how to help
them.
And then I realized that I can'thelp them if I can't do it
(19:31):
myself because there's mirrorneurons.
Their nervous system feeds on mynervous system.
And I was having those samemoments where you snap and you
yell.
And that's the last thing Iwanted to do as a parent.
I'm an intellectualizer.
So I think if I know theinformation, that's enough,
right?
And so I really had to learnthat I can't out think my
(19:53):
nervous system.
And I had to take the time tofocus on myself.
And that is the biggest shiftI've ever seen in my parenting
and in just like the peace inour home.
And that's when I realized that,it's important for mothers,
parents to know that.
Because at the time we wereworking on I had a course called
(20:14):
coping for kids.
We were working on like kidswith their nervous systems,
learning coping skills, allthose things.
Paige (20:20):
really great way to
Lindsay (20:22):
The number one thing that people would also say is
the hardest part of helpingtheir child calm down was
calming themselves down.
And I was like, okay, so this isthe foundational piece that is
missing to make all of theseother things work.
And so that's how I was like,okay, we have to teach about our
nervous systems and how toregulate first.
Paige (20:43):
Yeah, absolutely, and, I think it's the same when Lindsay
and I talk, About things withinthe business, we're 98 percent
of the time, on the exact samepage and like thought process.
And the 2 percent is,Miscommunication because I'm not
understanding what's happening.
And the science of it is to wehappen to work in a field where
(21:05):
we work with a lot of kids,right?
And parents want their kids tothrive and do well.
And so they want to fix thesechildren's behaviors.
They want to give them tools tosupport them.
But.
A lot of the times, it doesn'tmatter how much we teach the
children to be able to do it ifwe can't infiltrate the family
system.
So it's if as a family we aren'table to do these things, we
(21:26):
won't be able to reinforce itwith your children to help them
thrive.
So if we can get you to thriveand understand why that's
important, even just takingsteps towards it, your children
will be like ten fold better forit.
Lindsay (21:38):
Also think Paige, and you might disagree, but it's you
have to experience it to be ableto teach it in some ways.
like the embodiment of having aregulated nervous system.
Paige (21:51):
Mm hmm.
Lindsay (21:51):
aren't aware of until they become more in tune with
it.
And once you know what it feelslike, then it's easier to help
walk your child throughregulating their nervous system.
Megs (22:03):
Yeah.
I've noticed that a ton.
I, know when I used to throwtemper tantrums as a kid, Now my
kids are throwing tempertantrums And, my initial
reaction is to react is to saystop doing that, like that's not
what's acceptable.
and I knew that's not the way Iwanted to react, but I didn't
know what else to do.
(22:23):
it's so interesting because, youmentioned how you knew how you
wanted to parent, but then if wewere parented a different way,
there's only one way we reallyknow, no matter how much we want
to do something, unless we startto learn and to practice in a
different way, we're just goingto show up with like our best.
And so there wasn't like, therewas so many things that I wanted
(22:45):
to do and wanted to show up as aparent, but I didn't know how to
do it.
And so there was a lot of shamein that.
Cause I'd walk away from yellingand What the hell?
this isn't what I.
want to do this isn't what I'mtrying to do.
and I don't want to have thesememories with my kids, but, my
daughter this morning, it waslast night she pulled the cat's
tail and I saw her do this and Iwas like, Oh, what are you
(23:06):
doing?
And she freaked out.
And it was like an immediateresponse.
Cause she knew she had donesomething wrong.
And.
It was like, I felt myselftightening up.
Like I felt my chest gettingtighter.
I felt like I could react inthis situation.
but I actually just kept myvoice really quiet and I was
like, Hey, you're not introuble, but I do want to talk
to you about this.
(23:27):
And I was like, if you want togo to your cozy corner And
settle down, which is somethingI created, cause you guys
recommended it.
So both my kids have a cozycorner now with some quiet time
activities, some soft
Paige (23:38):
see you all.
Megs (23:39):
sit.
It's so, Oh my gosh, my sevenyear old is up.
She's what else could we add toour cozy corner?
And, yeah, but it was neatbecause instead of reacting and
instead of, freaking out abouther pulling the cat's tail, I
was able to allow her to calmdown first, and I also allowed
myself to calm down.
And I went in curious, so, Istarted asking her some more
(24:02):
questions about Hey, what wentthrough your mind with that?
And I also know that with ADHD,it comes with a lot of
impulsivity.
And so, Hey, did you think aboutthat before you pulled the cat's
tail?
And yeah, it was just reallyneat to be able to approach it
from that perspective.
So.
Seeing my kids have tempertantrums and knowing that it's a
nervous system response now hashelped me so much Because it
(24:26):
helps me recognize when my chestis tightening And when I'm
starting to have that nervoussystem response so that I can go
do some deep breathing or like Idon't know go lay on a floor and
look up at the Ceiling for asecond because I need to get out
of that space I've also beentaking my kids for drives or to
get out of the house.
If I can feel us, like on theverge of, a meltdown or
(24:48):
something like that, there'sbeen so many things that I've
learned and it's really helped.
And, for me, I've known thatI've had ADHD.
There's a lot that I've learnedfrom that.
But I know there's a lot ofparents out there that are just
finding out that their kids areneurodivergent.
They have no idea that they'reneurodivergent either, and so
there's a lot of explorationhere.
(25:08):
And I think there's a lot ofshame that can go into it when
you start to say Oh my gosh, Ihave been doing this all wrong
for so long.
I'm curious what you would sayto those parents who are just
starting to discover how theycan parent in a different way.
And that there is a differentway.
how can we eliminate the shameand turn that into growth
instead?
Lindsay (25:29):
I firmly believe that every parent, and I know Paige
feels the same way because we'vetalked a lot about our values
but that every parent is doingthe best that they can with the
knowledge that they have.
And so, and a lot of what you'retrying to do and where the shame
comes from, I think, is you'retrying these things.
parenting techniques that peopleare recommending.
You see them on TikTok.
(25:50):
Even some of the gentleparenting techniques on TikTok.
They're not bad.
They just aren't going to workfor the way your child's brain
is, right?
And so we look at it and we say,we're doing it wrong.
And it's not that you're doinganything wrong.
It's that we're learning how todo it right.
And that's what all of us aredoing because even our parenting
techniques, and we talk aboutthis a lot in our small group,
(26:12):
we can give you all of theseoptions, but what's going to
work for your family and yourspecific child is going to be
unique to their brain and howthey operate.
And so it's just, it's all trialand error, even for us in our
own homes.
with our own children.
I try stuff all the time and I'mlike, that, that was bad.
That was bad.
Paige (26:34):
Yep, exactly.
And I think too, we are just soexposed and consume so much
media around what is goodparenting, what you should be
doing in parenting.
And all of the shoulds arethings we try to keep out of it.
It's we're exposed to thesethings constantly, where we're,
you And I think a lot of us haddifficult childhoods just
(26:57):
comparatively.
So we're swinging the pendulumin the opposite direction where
we're almost over correcting andwanting to be like perfect and
do the perfect things.
And so another thing that weoften talk about is the more,
you know, the better you do,That's like our catchphrase, not
coined by me.
It's somewhere on the internet,I'm sure.
But also like more importantthan what you do in the moment
(27:19):
is the opportunity to repair.
It will always be moreimportant.
So if you feel like you triedsomething and it didn't work,
it's okay to share that withyour kids.
And if you feel like a repair isneeded to apologize and
reconnect.
Yeah.
Lindsay (27:44):
now 13 and I'm just discovering this way of
parenting and there may be, butyou can have a conversation
about that and repair and it isjust as healing and restorative
so just remembering that as youlearn and grow and have
conversations with your kids, ifyou're open to hearing their
experience, to talking withthem, to taking accountability
(28:06):
for things, it's going to beokay.
And most of the time, if you'reworried about being a good mom,
you are a good mom.
So do
Megs (28:18):
And this rings true for me is that you're the best mom out
there for your kids, like you'vemade them and there's no one
else that you would trustraising your kids.
Like you are the one for them.
And as you continue to learn andgrow, you'll continue to show up
in newer and better ways, aslong as you're trying.
So I love that, In the end, welove our kids so much and we're
(28:38):
going to do so much for them.
I think, I do find itinteresting about like the
different generations.
I think as millennials and GenZ, we're learning so much about
the parenting experience.
And I think that there's a lotof healing that also probably
needs to be done.
I know from my own experience inthe way that we are parented
there's a lot that we're tryingto break those generational
(28:58):
curses and try to do differentthings when we're also seeing
our parents and possibly theirparents that aren't doing
anything about it, right?
Like they're at the point thatthey are, there's no more
learning or growing.
And so it's, making peace withthat.
And helping our kids learn andgrow in a different way.
Paige (29:17):
Yeah.
Megs (29:17):
okay.
so tell me a little bit abouthow you possibly stay organized
with everything you have goingon.
You each have two businesses,right?
and ADHD husbands.
what does that look like?
Lindsay (29:29):
I'm a shit show.
Paige (29:32):
all are, right?
I think we have a, like, when Ivery first met Lindsay, I was
talking to her about this ideaof, mom guilt, and the mindset
of mom guilt, and how, we hadmoved to an area that was, like,
super judgmental, andeveryone's, anti all these
things, and all of your food,and it all has to be home, it
was this whole ordeal, so I hadspent like 12 hours trying
(29:54):
Making this soup for my kidswith these organic ingredients
and these dry beans and like allthis stuff and like homemade
bread and like we sat down atthe table and they literally
were like not eating that andthen got up and walked away and
I was like how dumb that I feltlike I needed to be trapped in
this space of what theexpectation of everything around
me told me I needed to do to bea good mom when in reality like
(30:17):
my kids love freaking tomatosoup and a quesadilla.
I put myself in that position.
so this idea of like, how to beorganized, Lindsey and I talk a
lot about, especially lastseason on the podcast, because
it's all about ADHD andorganizing your life with ADHD
and understanding it and makingit work for you.
I call them life hacks.
Lindsey does too, pretty much,where we like, hack our house in
(30:39):
a way that makes the most sensefor us.
And so that's different for eachperson.
But some like unconventionalthings that I do is I have a go
bag, which is like something inmy car that has everything that
I would need because I willinevitably forget something.
I just will.
So it just lives in the car.
So then whatever I need will bein the car and I don't have to
(31:01):
worry about it.
everything has a home.
So in my house, the things thatI need have a home and it's not
cutesy.
It's not cutesy, but it ismindful.
Because I don't remember where Iset things down.
So if it has a designated place,then predictably, it will be in
that place when I need it, evenif I can't remember putting it
(31:23):
there.
with our family, we do a Sundayfamily reset.
And so that looks like togetheras a family, we have a list of
chores that we all completetogether as a family.
And recently I put together likea visual chart for my kids each,
specifically for their bedrooms.
(31:44):
So I try to stay between threeto six tasks because it's
something we've been practicingBut like each one is a picture
And so when it's hey, it's timeto clean your room Like I can
body double for them, but theycan direct themselves at this
point of okay, i'm right here Ineed to pick up the dishes.
I need to pick up the trash.
I need to pick up my toys I needto make my bed.
So being able to like worktogether as a family body double
(32:07):
as a family You It makes a hugedifference just knowing we're
all NeuroSpicy, so that's justlike a few of my personal life
hacks on being organized, atleast in the home.
Megs (32:19):
Yeah.
Lindsay (32:20):
yeah, mine are similar.
I have a laundry basket and likethe common areas of my house
because they're, I feel likeclothes just end up laying on
the floor everywhere.
I don't know.
My kids don't like to wearclothes most of the time.
They just, or they change theiroutfit.
So I've got laundry basketseverywhere so that, it's easy to
just put it in the basket.
I live by the reminders.
(32:41):
This app on my iPhone, I have itlike broken down into categories
based on which business and thepage.
And I have one and we can justassign who needs to do what or
what we're working on.
And let's see other things.
We also do we clean and reset asa family, because of the body
(33:03):
doubling piece.
We usually do once in theevenings, we like pick up all
the floors or, put stuff awayand then take care of the
animals together.
And we all rotate jobs.
As far as organizing my house,that's something I'm really
working on.
So I don't know if you have moretips than I do about that, but.
I do know that I need to keepthe things that I use the most
(33:27):
visible or I will forget thatthey exist.
And so I'm trying to find a wayto do that.
That is still clean andorganized.
Megs (33:36):
I love that.
I, and I love the way that youspeak about it too, because I
think what we see on socialmedia is what people then think
that organized needs to be.
But organized just meansWhatever you desire it to mean
like making a definition foryour family and what works for
you And like I love the idea ofhaving a go bag in your car
(33:56):
that's something that you canjust go to because you know that
there's going to be things inthere like snacks or I know my
daughter in the car gets carsick And so we always have to
have those little bands in thecar or like dramamine or
something so that she willactually go on the highway with
us without crying the wholetime, there's so many things
That we have to just figure outwhat works for us instead of
what works for social media andwhat we think that we have To do
(34:20):
so thank you for sharing becauseI you know I think that's the
same with parenting right likewhat works for me isn't
necessarily going to work forthe next person And that's why I
don't have a video out there.
That's like how to have aperfectly organized desk Because
it's going to be different foreveryone and it's going to make
sense differently depending onthe way that you live your life.
And so, yeah, there's alwaysways that we can improve.
(34:43):
and there's always ways that wecan grow our knowledge to build
upon that, which is really cool.
one thing that you guys helpedme with too, I listened to your
podcast and I say this to myhusband now, I shared it with
him.
is you were like, you know what?
If I was dead, my husband wouldbe able to figure it out.
I'm like, I can't tell you howmuch that has helped me because
(35:05):
sometimes I hear him talking tothe kids and I'm like, Oh, he's
doing it wrong.
But I'm like, Okay.
I need to take a step back.
And yeah.
Sometimes I just need to allowhim to go in there and make the
mistakes that I've already madeso that he can also learn
himself
Lindsay (35:20):
page when we were recording it.
This is morbid, but let's like,if I was dead, Zane's got this.
Yeah.
Paige (35:27):
And some people that like don't struggle with that are
like, that's weird.
Why would you say that?
And then my husband was like,the other day he reminded me
that I was dead.
He was like, remember you'redead.
And I was like, Oh yeah, I'mdead.
You got this.
Lindsay (35:43):
it is so important to, I think, to let our partners or
co parents go through the sameprocess because, especially if
they're neurodivergent, I knowthere's some drive for autonomy
or demand avoidance in myhusband, and so hearing me say
it makes him less likely to tryit than to experience it
himself, and so me being deadand backing off gives him that
(36:07):
opportunity.
Megs (36:08):
Yeah.
I like that too.
I found myself asking him too.
I'm like, Hey, do you want myadvice or do you want to just
play this out the way thatyou're doing it?
I find that's so fascinatingbecause we take on so much as
moms, as business owners, astrying to do it all.
That if we try to parent them toand teach them everything that
(36:30):
we know, they're not going tolearn.
And we need to be able to relyon them.
And by taking a step back andsaying no, you'd be able to
handle it.
And I trust you.
That almost gives them theempowerment to learn themselves
too.
Instead of just waiting for usto tell them everything they
know that they are empowered.
So,
Paige (36:46):
I think it definitely also benefits us because if you
can get to the place where youcan successfully.
feel like you're letting go ofsome portion, like you can trust
in your partner, then you'regoing to have more space and
time in yourself for things thatyou need, which is another part
of what we talk about when wecover like nervous system,
right?
if we're doing and being at all,even when you have a partner,
(37:09):
you are not able to care foryourself in a way where you can
also show up for your family.
And so I work with a lot ofwomen who are like, I just could
never know.
what would happen if you justdidn't like, what would happen
if you went to the gym and letyour husband do school drop off
instead?
You're like, I just, that'sjust, I don't know.
And I was like, you figure itout.
(37:31):
this is one of your goals thatthey'll figure it out.
Megs (37:34):
right.
They'll make mistakes and that'sokay.
Paige (37:39):
Yeah.
And their relationship will bebetter.
The parent child relationshipwill be better because of those
mistakes.
Megs (37:46):
I find that the more I learned too.
And the more that we learn aboutourselves as people with ADHD is
like, we're able to help eachother tap out.
this morning, my husband washaving a really hard time with
the kids.
So I was like, get out of here.
I got this.
And so like, when we can noticethat in one another, we show up
as a team more.
And then we, I know that he'lltell me to get out of the room
if he notices that he can handlethis better.
(38:09):
And it's interesting too, islike when you start to notice
those things.
I almost am ready to show upbetter because I know that he
needs me to and vice versabecause we are starting to
recognize that in one another.
And so it's neat to be able tohave that partner.
I know not everyone has that,right?
And that's hard too, I'm curiousif you guys wanted to do an
(38:30):
exercise like you did in yourworkshop for low demand
parenting, or on your podcast,because I find that was
something that was reallyhelpful for me.
Lindsay (38:39):
Yeah,
Megs (38:40):
cool.
Lindsay (38:41):
we trying to figure out?
Give us an example.
Do
Megs (38:44):
one thing I've seen come up lately, and I know I'm a
culprit of this too, is sayingIt's time to clean your room
right now.
Now is the time I've decidedthat like now is the time that
you have to clean their room,your room, go get it done.
And then my kids will go in andthey'll just play in their room,
which causes me to have someadditional anxiety about that.
(39:05):
I want my kids to clean theirroom when.
when.
I tell them to, and they're notdoing it, what, how do I get
through to that?
Lindsay (39:13):
Why is it important that your kids clean your room,
the room at that specific time?
Megs (39:19):
I guess it's because I've noticed that the room is messy.
And so it feels like it'simportant that before they go to
bed, before we start a week,before, before we move on to
something that could make thehouse even more messy, that
their room needs to be cleanbecause it feels like a fresh
start.
Lindsay (39:37):
And if there's not a fresh start, what would that
mean?
Megs (39:41):
But the room would stay messy.
I
Lindsay (39:44):
And what's the problem with that,
Megs (39:47):
guess I recognize the feeling of it being clean.
As like the feeling is nicer, itfeels a little bit more
peaceful, but it's also not myroom that I'm spending time in,
right?
I'm putting them to bed in thatroom, but it doesn't necessarily
mean that it has to be clean forme.
(40:09):
But I wonder if they're feelingsome of the same things that I'm
feeling in their room.
For sure.
Paige (40:16):
So it sounds like it's important to you for your kids
to have a clean room because ifyour home doesn't feel a level
of cleaner organized than youexperienced.
More anxiety, which you know isharder on your nervous system
and you don't show up like youwant to and then You also
believe like that couldpotentially be why your kids
aren't able to show up like theywant to So here's my question
(40:40):
then and this would take somelike conversation with your kids
What do they want their room tolook like so they can show up as
their best selves?
What does that feel like forthem?
Lindsay (40:52):
I'd even have them show you.
Megs (40:54):
Oh, that's brilliant.
I like that because I, it'sfunny.
My daughter sees me organizing,right?
And I've helped them organizetheir room to put things in
certain places.
And my seven year old looks atme the other day.
She's mom, why don't we havelabels?
Like you've done in the otherkids rooms.
And I was like, Oh, do you wantlabels?
And she's like, yeah, I wantlabels, which is so funny
(41:15):
because I'm like, withoutlabels, how are your kids going
to know where to put thingsback?
And that's literally then whatshe told me.
Paige (41:21):
and I have very different personalities with my kids too.
So one way that we've workedthrough dropping some of these
demands is I have created thosecharts like I was telling you
and I can I share my screen?
Is that a thing here?
Lindsay (41:35):
How fancy.
Megs (41:35):
Oh my
Paige (41:36):
gosh, okay.
So I have these like editable,edit
Megs (41:42):
gosh.
Cute.
Lindsay (41:43):
just have those like ready to
Paige (41:45):
Yeah, I just have them because I'm a creature of
resources.
and then I, so I broke it downto six steps, right?
Six steps for what their roomfeels like for them and just
generalize it.
And I don't have it saved withwhat I did, but it was like,
pick up toys.
Make it neat and tidy.
So that's our phrase and neatand tidy looks different for
(42:07):
each of my kids.
One is very organized, wantslabels like this, everything is
categorized.
The other one just organizes thechaos on top of the dresser, but
everything and every piece ofpaper and cardboard box is
important to them.
Megs (42:23):
it.
Paige (42:23):
for them, that neat and tidy is those cardboard boxes,
like being lined up or whatever.
Like cool.
Defined by them.
And so I wasn't actually surehow this would go because I used
to body double and walk throughit with them one by one hey
we're doing this and then we'redoing this and then we're doing
this and so this last week I waslike hey look on the back of
your door you guys each have achart for the steps of your room
(42:47):
and they're all labeled with ourcommon terms and I printed them
in black and white and then theycolored them and I put them in
like a page protector and justtaped it to the back of the
door.
but they were able to look at itthemselves and it was easy to
redirect.
Cause if they came out of theirspace, I was like, what step are
you on?
And they're like, oh, I'm ondishes and garbage.
(43:09):
I'm like, awesome.
Like you're halfway there.
And then they have the freedomto pick which step they're going
to do, how it's going to bedefined and look like for them
and how much time each steptakes.
But they like, and I would checkin, And I even was prepared to
body double.
And then.
They didn't need me.
I was like, what?
hurt, but okay.
Megs (43:30):
I saw a TikTok video the other day of a woman who, she
did something like that, but shecut them all up and put them in
a bowl.
And with that, she also put likelittle rewards in there, have a
piece of candy.
You get five minutes of tablettime.
But in order for you to get topull something out, you would
have to complete the first task.
And then that was how she gotthem to complete their room.
(43:52):
So making it a fun game, anddoing one thing at a time.
okay, only go and pick up thestuffed animals, and then come
back and grab something else.
So, I thought that was reallycool too, and totally outside
the box.
I was like, why didn't I thinkof that?
it's just so interesting.
The things we learn from talkingto our kids.
Cause I think at least in mychildhood, I was told what to do
(44:13):
a lot.
And I never was asked what Iwanted.
And that's one of the firstthings I asked kids when I go
in, what do you want your roomto be.
What do you want this to looklike for you?
And what does organized mean?
Do you know what that means?
And do you know where things go?
And that's a lot of the thingstoo.
It's kids don't even know wherethings go and you're asking them
to put them away.
I know I used to shove thingsunder my bed.
(44:34):
it's a way you told me to put itaway.
Paige (44:37):
Exactly.
And when we're talking aboutlike Why this was an important
value for you, right?
It makes sense.
You want them to have a cleanspace.
You want them to feel good init.
And then being able to get theirengagement and defining what
that looks like.
And then also handing over therest of it, right?
We handed over the what, how thewin, why all back to them, just
(45:00):
with the expectation that theywere going to create a safe
space for themselves, that'sultimately your value here.
Megs (45:07):
yeah, I like that a lot.
Thank you for that, right?
it's fascinating how manydemands we have as moms until we
start to question them.
I've, it's been.
A very interesting journey to beon so
Paige (45:20):
There's a many a time when I say no and my kids say
why, and I'm like,
Lindsay (45:25):
Actually, I don't know why.
Go
Paige (45:27):
yep,
Lindsay (45:27):
Yeah.
Paige (45:28):
I'm like, actually, I don't have a reason, never mind,
go ahead, do the thing.
Megs (45:32):
I know I grew up where it was like, no, mom is right.
And there's no questioning her.
I think it's just really neat tohave that dialogue with your
kids where you still have likeauthority, so to speak, but it's
a dialogue where they canquestion you.
And you can start to workthrough some of the things where
you have that relationshipinstead of just a you do this
and you have to do this type ofthing.
Lindsay (45:53):
the goal is to teach them life skills, not to manage
and micromanage their life.
And so we sometimes we thinklife skills means them doing it
our way, and that's notaccurate.
Paige (46:07):
Yeah,
Megs (46:07):
brilliant.
That's a great perspective.
Thank you guys so much for beinghere today.
I like, it's been so amazingworking with you.
can you tell us real quick aboutyour small group and how people
can find You
Lindsay (46:18):
You can find us on Facebook.
TikTok at Mindful as a Mother,Instagram at Mindful as a Mother
Co, I think.
We also have an email list ifyou want to hop on and join
newsletters and I'll let Paigetell you about our small group.
Paige (46:33):
Yeah.
So our small group is a fourweek small group that we've
priced at 150 for four weeks.
They happen consecutively.
What we cover is the first twoweeks is the understanding of
the nervous system, what thatlooks like for you and your
kids, why it's important, likewe briefly touched on and then
skills to support you and yourkids in those like fight flight.
(46:54):
I'm going to fight you becauseyou're the parent things.
And then weeks three and fourare really tailored to the
individual group.
so what specifically thosepeople in that group are seeking
out of it is how we create thecontent to be most supportive.
Each week we do anindividualized Q& A, and then we
also opportunities for some oneon one coaching.
if participants feel like theyneed more support and one of our
(47:18):
very favorite things andpriorities from the group is
being able to create the senseof community that you're not the
only one doing this.
and we've all experienced thesethings.
It's not as isolating as itfeels.
Megs (47:30):
That's awesome.
Thank you so much.
And I highly recommend it causeI've done it.
I'd like to do it again becauseI feel like there's so much more
that I can learn from that.
And thank you both so much forbeing here today.
Thanks for sharing yourexpertise and I'll put all of
the links in the show notesbelow so people can get in
contact with you.
Paige (47:47):
thank you.
MacBook Pro Microphone-1 (47:49):
That conversation was so awesome.
Paige and Lindsay are such awealth of knowledge.
And I also love theirvulnerability and honesty.
I think sometimes we look atmotherhood and we see other moms
and we compare ourselves tothese women who are doing it
seemingly perfectly.
And then we look at ourselvesand beat ourselves up because
(48:10):
we're doing everything wrong.
But it's just so nice to be ableto have real conversations.
Talk about the things that we dofeel shame around, understand
that we're not alone in it.
And then be able to make themodifications and understand how
to actually make modificationsin mothering.
So that we can show up betterthan we did before.
(48:33):
And I was also having aconversation recently with
another neurodivergent mom whoparents neurodivergent kids.
She was taking a course as well.
And she doesn't have asignificant other partner to tap
her out.
And so she has the support ofthis other parenting group.
That's just helping her through,they call it the tunnel.
(48:54):
When her kids can't be consoled,they are.
Not in a place where logic isgoing to support them at all.
You can't tell them to stop.
They're just going through it.
And.
Having to sit through and helpthem regulate their own emotions
without being to tap out.
That's a whole nother level.
And I know Paige and Lindsay canhelp with that as well.
(49:16):
They have experienced doing, Ithink Paige touched on that a
little bit too, but I wanted tomake sure that I highlighted
that.
I loved how Lindsay talked abouthow the biggest shift in her own
parenting.
Was understanding herself.
And I have to say ditto.
It has been such a game changerTo just recognize when I might
(49:39):
be experiencing dysregulation sothat I can start to put together
some techniques that could helpme.
And sometimes it is.
Going in my closet and sittingin the corner and having a good
cry, honestly.
Or, you know, tapping out andclosing the door.
But whatever works for you.
It's just really nice to knowthat we're not alone in this.
(50:03):
Another thing is finding whatworks for your family and not
just taking a piece of advice,trying it once and failing.
And then just thinking thatyou're bad at it and beating
yourself up and going on.
I really highly recommend thatyou sign up for Paige in
Lindsay's a small group.
They mentioned it's$150.
I forget how many weeks it is,but it's incredible.
(50:25):
It's currently open for newmembers.
All of the links are in the shownotes below.
You won't want to miss thechance to learn directly from
them They ask you questions.
They help you work through yourown specific needs.
They're just incredible.
I also want just last week, myown membership community.
I'm so excited to invite you tojoin.
(50:49):
When you join your first monthis$5 off with the code podcast.
Now regular monthly cost isgoing to be$27 a month.
You're going to get a monthlybody doubling from me.
You'll also get a monthly Q anda, which is group coaching.
Just work a little bit deeperinto your own organizing journey
(51:09):
and figuring out what works foryou.
I've wanted to create acommunity for a really long
time.
And I'm so excited to inviteyou.
There's so many things that I'minviting you to.
Go with what makes the mostsense for you in this moment?
And if, what makes the mostsense for you as listening to
this podcast?
Awesome.
Is it learning how to parent alittle bit more?
(51:32):
All the links are in the shownotes below.
no matter what, let's keepbuilding a community that
supports and uplifts oneanother.
If you enjoyed this episode,leave a review, share it with
someone who needs to hear this.
Your support means the world tome.
And I know some people recentlyhave said.
I love your podcast so much.
(51:53):
And I have so many people whocould benefit from hearing this
message.
But they're hesitant to send itto them because they're so
nervous that they're going totake it the wrong way.
And so from that, it's just alittle bit of communication
again.
And I would say, ask thosepeople a question before you
send it.
If you're concerned about it andsay, Hey.
(52:15):
I'm listening to this reallycool podcast about organizing an
ADHD brain.
I thought of you.
Would it be okay if I sent thisand you don't even have to say,
I thought of, you could justsay.
I really want to share itbecause the host told me to.
You don't put it back on me.
It's totally cool.
and take a listen and then youcan send a link if they say yes
(52:36):
or no.
until next time.
Thank you so much for tuning in.
Thank you so much for sharingyour awesome stories about how
the podcast is supporting you.
Oh, I also have two morecoaching spots starting in the
month of February.
So if you want to get in onthat, Just go to the link in the
show notes below and get on acall with me.
I'd love to chat and see ifcoaching is a good fit for you.
(52:59):
See you next week.
Hey, beautiful people.
(00:01):
Welcome back to another episodeof organizing an ADHD brain.
I'm so excited to introduce youto Paige and Lindsay.
Today, I originally met them onTik TOK.
I'll dive into that story in theinterview, but we are diving
into all things, not onlyorganizing, but also parenting
and understanding your ownnervous system.
(00:21):
And how it can make such a worldof a difference for you and your
kids.
I can speak from my own personalexperience.
I've taken.
Paige and Lindsay's course, andit was incredible and I'm a huge
promoter of it.
So if you want to reach out andask me more questions.
Absolutely.
But I'll put all of their linksand information below.
(00:43):
It's funny because in the showwe talk about cleaning your room
and today.
I was insistent that my girlscleaned their room, but I didn't
give them a timeframe.
I was just like, Hey, let's getit done today.
Today's the day we were bodydoubling by doing other things
around the house.
And it's hilarious because I hadforgotten who I heard it from.
And it was literally thisinterview that Paige and her
(01:07):
family clean on Sundays togetheras a form of body doubling I
talked last week a little bitabout.
Communicating with my husband.
And how I've learned that.
I do have a lot of control overa lot of the things that
happened in our house.
And.
I don't think I fully knew thatlike now, obviously now that I
know that it's very apparent,like there's.
(01:30):
Yes.
I, yes.
But also.
I don't think I realize how muchcontrol I feel like I have over
my kids' rooms.
I've asked them what theywanted.
But for the most part, I askother kids more often what they
want than I do with my own kids.
So there was some realization inthat not only today, but
(01:52):
listening to this episode.
So I just want you to know asI'm doing this podcast, I have I
figured out the organizingstuff.
Right.
My coach.
That's what I do.
That's what I dive into.
I want to learn so much more.
And I still have ADHD and I'mstill trying to be the best
parent that I can.
(02:12):
I'm still learning how tocommunicate, not only with my
kids, but with my husband in away that works for us.
And that's a big learning curve.
And so last week's episode andthis week's episode.
These are, these are prettyvulnerable for me because, it's
been a, it's a learning curvefor me too.
And so as I'm learning now, asI'm growing, I want to be
(02:34):
learning and growing with you.
We're going to keep talkingabout organizing.
That's what I do.
but this is a crucial aspect ofit.
I know two podcasts in a row oncommunication, but it's huge.
There's so much we can learn.
By learning how to talk aboutour feelings.
I know sometimes I can explainsomething in my head perfectly,
(02:54):
but when I try to put it intowords, it either comes out wrong
or it's not conveyed in the waythat I meant it to be conveyed.
And so.
Continuing to work through that,especially in a family setting
and a family dynamic is reallycrucial for the success of
everyone.
If you enjoy this episode, don'tforget to subscribe, share it
(03:16):
with a friend and leave areview.
It helps the podcast reach somany more listeners like you.
Let's get into it.
Megs (03:23):
I'm so excited to introduce you to Paige and
Lindsay today.
I just recently got done takingtheir course.
they are known as mindful as amother, they're best friends,
and they're both therapists,Paige, you want to go first and
tell us a little bit about whoyou are, a little bit about your
background
Paige (03:39):
Yeah, so my name is Paige Bruce, and I'm a one half of
Mindful as a Mother.
so we highly value Makingresources affordable for ADHD
and autistic parents, whetheryou are yourself or you have
children that are.
And so we have created aplethora of online resources and
ongoing small groups to helpteach parents how to embrace
(04:01):
themselves and their kidsexactly as they show up in the
world.
We all know traditionalparenting just doesn't hit.
I live in Idaho, which is aboutthree and a half hours away from
Lindsay.
We met online In 2020 onInstagram and became besties.
We had two separate companiesdoing the exact same thing.
So we just joined forces.
(04:23):
I have three children, 10,seven, and just barely six.
So they're not as close as theyseem.
And I'm expecting my fourth.
I have a private practice inIdaho that specializes in
working with ADHD and autisticchildren and then also anxiety
because a lot of us, grown womenwho are late diagnosed are often
misdiagnosed or co diagnosedwith anxiety disorders.
(04:45):
Like you got to know a lot aboutall of it to figure out what's
going on.
I have ADHD and then I have anADHD husband.
So all of our kids are spicy insome form.
I have one that's formallydiagnosed with ADHD only.
And then I just recently had herevaluated for dyslexia as we're
navigating some neededadditional supports.
(05:07):
And then I have another onethat's formally diagnosed with
ADHD and autism with a PDAprofile.
Megs (05:14):
When did you find out that you had ADHD?
Paige (05:17):
I really, gosh, I can't say that there's one specific
time, but it just made sense.
my oldest has always been spicyfrom the very beginning.
There's like countless storieson our podcast about how she
would break through locks, Climbbillions of things like she
could climb before she couldwalk and it would stress the
(05:37):
parents at the park out becauseshe'd be doing like the monkey
bars and I'm just vibing andthey're like, oh my god.
and I just, the way sheunderstands the world made so
much sense to me that once I.
I got my degree and I startedworking with children and I
specialize in this.
I was like, Oh, that's why itmakes sense for her, but also
(05:57):
that's why I understand how sheperceives the world so much is
because I also have it.
And then my husband just alsovery much so has it.
That's probably why we weredrawn to each other.
Megs (06:07):
I feel that my husband has ADHD too.
And sometimes he listens to mypodcast.
I'm like, what did you take awayfrom it?
And he's like, I don't know.
It was good though.
Paige (06:16):
Yep.
Megs (06:16):
All right.
Lindsay, what about you?
Lindsay (06:18):
My name is Lindsay.
I'm the second half of mindfulas a mother.
I am in Utah and I have a smallprivate practice where I see
mostly kids who areneurodivergent, but I also see
some adults and I have threekids.
My son is nine and he is AuDHD.
So ADHD and autism.
(06:40):
I have twins who are six.
six and they have not beenformally diagnosed, but I'm sure
there is one in their future forADHD.
And then I have been formallydiagnosed with ADHD and I self
identify as having autism.
I'm still trying to decide if Iwant to pursue the testing or
not, but if it's like Paigesaid, and since I've started,
(07:02):
Acknowledging that about myself.
It's actually made my life somuch easier because I've been
able to unburden in a lot ofways.
My husband has ADHD as well.
So we're just one big neurospicy family.
Megs (07:13):
I love that you're normalizing it too.
I'm fascinated with what you'vebeen doing, And I found you all
on Tik TOK and I think, one ofyou had commented on one of my
videos about, ADHD organizingand you were like, I'm so
excited to dive in and I'm like,Oh my gosh.
And then I dived into yourvideos and I'm like, this is all
making so much sense.
(07:33):
And it really started clickingin a whole new way.
So how long have you beenidentifying the both of you as
mindful as a mother, one halfand the other?
Lindsay (07:42):
so we officially got an LLC and at the beginning of
2023, but before then we werelike teaching and doing stuff
together and had Yeah.
We called it the thing.
Paige (07:52):
were dating
Megs (07:53):
dabbling.
Paige (07:54):
since 2021.
Lindsay (07:57):
sure that it's a good, fit to start a business.
Megs (08:00):
so that you could spend the rest of your lives together
helping other mamas and
Paige (08:04):
We are.
We're business married.
That's what we talk about.
Megs (08:08):
I like that.
it's a good
Lindsay (08:09):
We even celebrate our anniversary.
Megs (08:11):
You do! What do you do to celebrate?
Lindsay (08:15):
we're usually on podcast weekend.
It's what we call it when we goaway to record a bunch of
podcasts.
So normally we just go to dinneror eat snacks or I don't know
what we do
Paige (08:24):
Hang out, watch trash TV.
Lindsay (08:48):
these resources affordable to and accessible to
all parents who areneurodivergent and or have
neurodivergent kids.
Because what I found when my sonwas going through the diagnosis
process, we knew At about threeand a half, maybe sooner that
autism was very likely.
And when I would look forresources and I looked into my
(09:10):
training as a therapist it wasall mostly like traditional
parenting stuff and behavioraltechniques that didn't always
work.
And so I knew I was looking forsomething different.
And then once I found it, I waslike, I need everybody to be
able to find this when they needit.
Paige (09:28):
and mine is very similar.
We have different, almost whatwe call origin stories that kind
of lead to the same mission thathelp complement each other
because a big portion of mine isI naturally am very attuned to
children in general, especiallyneurodivergent children, because
that's how I operate in theworld myself.
And so there's this gap in.
(09:50):
in.
the communication between parentand child when you are
neurodivergent and or yourchildren.
And it led me to find a lot ofparents who just felt like they
weren't good parents and theydidn't find joy in parenthood.
And for me, that's like my mainmission when I started my own
side company was really helpingparents know that what they're
(10:14):
experiencing isn't.
Just them and that traditionalparenting really doesn't hit
when you are neurodivergent oryou have neurodivergent kids So
and then I want them to have joyin parenthood while also
watching these children thrive
Megs (10:28):
That's incredible.
I, I was hesitant to sign up foryour small group at first
because I was like, do I havetime to do this?
Is this, what I need?
I knew it was something that Iwanted to do, but I think it's
so incredibly affordable.
And when I was sitting in yoursmall group for the first time
in the first week and listeningto other mothers talk about
their stories, talk about theirexperiences with motherhood,
(10:48):
including yourselves, and thatyou show up so vulnerable and
you have a lot of answersbecause you've been through a
lot of this stuff and you'vedone a lot of the work, but I
remember sitting there and I hadtears in my eyes because I
finally felt like I wasn't alonein a lot of the different things
that I do, including, but notlimited to the emotional
(11:09):
outbursts that can happen as amom.
That is something that I saw mymom go through.
And then I vowed myself like,that's not something I'm going
to do as a mom.
And then lo and behold, This issomething that we experience as
moms because it's a nervoussystem response.
It's not necessarily you justwant to get pissed off at them.
(11:29):
and so I have looked at my ownparenting journey So much more
differently now after takingyour course than I ever did
before.
And so first, I just want tothank you thank you for putting
yourselves out there in a waythat is vulnerable, that is
helping people, just change someof the ways that we look at
(11:52):
things.
So, as you were working withyour own kids and trying
different things that weren'tnecessarily like the, the things
that they tell you to do inschool, when did you start to
learn that there were differentthings out there that you could
try that would work?
and you can dive into the lowdemand parenting.
I've loved listening to yourpodcast on that.
I thought that was fascinating.
(12:13):
I'd love to hear where thatjourney began and where you are
now based on some of the thingsthat you've just tried.
Lindsay (12:18):
for me, my son was really young and I worked with
kids, at that time and I wastrying some of the things I was
recommending, like parents do athome.
And I was like, this isn'tworking.
What is, what am I doing wrong?
And so I started Googling causethat's what people do.
When they can't figure stuffout.
And I found a little help, butnot really.
(12:39):
And then I learned aboutpolyvagal theory, which is the
nervous system.
And so then I was able to likereally dive into how the nervous
system works and how it's moresensitive for neurodivergent.
people and how we can parentfrom that perspective.
And it all evolved.
So it's I'm still alwayslearning and growing.
we're constantly both Paige andI reading and learning new
(13:01):
things we're never done.
But as things have progressed.
And with social media, that'sbeen helpful.
I've been able to just continueto adapt and learn.
Megs (13:11):
Do you remember a specific time where you tried something
that was totally not what the,the typical things tell you to
do and you're like, holy crap,it could work if we try new and
different things.
Lindsay (13:24):
Yeah.
So instead of, let's say, I'mtrying to think of a good
example.
Oh, with the low demandparenting, instead of me being
on top of my child all the timebeing like, you need to do this,
you need to do this, you need todo this, I tried to take as many
demands out as possible with themorning time because he's having
a really hard time getting toschool.
(13:46):
And it actually helped that hehad more freedom and flexibility
to choose the way he wanted tomove through his morning
routine.
and it was like game changing atthe time because he was in
preschool and I was literallyhaving to carry him into
preschool.
Every single day, kicking,screaming, crying.
And then I would feel terriblewhen I left because he was still
crying and he would eventuallycalm down and be totally fine,
(14:08):
but it was just so exhausting.
And then my nervous system wasdysregulated starting the day.
And I remember just being like,Oh, like I don't actually need
to do any of that like I canjust let him like do it in his
way and set things up that workfor him.
And it's so much easier andthere's not a battle involved.
Megs (14:28):
It's fascinating.
Paige, what about you?
Oh
Paige (14:32):
Yeah, I would say I started parenting when I was
very young.
I was 14 when my oldest sisterhad her first daughter.
and she wasn't able to care forher.
So she lived in my home and Iwas raised by my grandparents
already.
So this kid's greatgrandparents.
My niece's great grandparents.
so they didn't really have theflexibility or the energy to
(14:53):
care for her.
So I did a lot of the day to dayparenting, and there's one
incident where she Was beingdefiant.
That's my quote unquote forpeople that can't see me,
defiant.
and not doing the thing that Iasked her to do and I flicked
her in the forehead and Istarted sobbing.
and it was like from that momenton that I was like, this just
(15:15):
isn't right.
This isn't okay.
And so I started just reading alot of literature around
parenting, like parenting withlove and logic.
the whole brain child, like 14,15 years old, I'm like.
sipping hot cocoa at our librarycafe.
this is my life.
Megs (15:32):
Yeah.
Paige (15:33):
but then my oldest was born and it was night and day.
Cause I had an in home daycarecause I've always been
passionate about the safe careof children and then to provide
information to parents.
So I had low income familiesthat we would provide.
Child care for and then I wouldprovide additional information
on their development and how wecan support them and there was
(15:53):
one kiddo.
That is about six months youngerthan my daughter and I refer to
her as a unicorn because it justwas like night and day
different.
if you told this child no.
They did not do the thing.
Like this kid could sit at atable at 15 months old with
markers and crayons,unsupervised, and never draw on
(16:13):
the wall.
Like I was beside myself inmeantime, I'm like finding these
big intruder locks and like deadbolting things.
And one time my kid broke ourliving room window and then
climbed over a thorny bush andwas like running the streets.
So I just started adapting theenvironment where I was like,
this isn't working.
Clearly it works with thischild, which is great.
(16:36):
Not working with my child andI'm not sure why yet, but then
just adapting the environmentand adapting my responses to be
more encompassing to what I feltlike she needed.
And if we were in a place, likeI called it creating a yes
space, so there were certainthings in order for it to be a
yes space that I couldn't havein that space.
(16:57):
Because she would build laddersto get out of windows and
things.
So I don't have any of thethings that we can stack, right?
So now we're in this place whereshe's free to learn and develop.
But it's tailored to her and herspecific needs and it just
continued from there and I neverknew that my parenting was
really different and until I diddive more into Counseling
(17:22):
because I had children before Igot my master's degree
Megs (17:25):
That's so neat.
I, I wanted to invite you onhere.
I know I talk a lot aboutorganizing and ADHD, but one
thing that's really helped me asI'm communicating with my kids
when it comes to keeping theirroom clean or organized or
having them help up around thehouse or do chores or do things
to help them be involved in thehouse, I find that I'm able to
(17:46):
communicate with themdifferently because of the class
I took with you, which is one ofthe things Top things that I
have to work with clients on isthe communication aspect of
organizing and letting go andfiguring out how to create
systems in your house that workbecause you can do it, but
(18:06):
oftentimes they fail because thelack of communication and
honestly, just not understandinghow to speak to someone so that
they will listen.
And so that has helped metenfold when it comes to your
course.
I think it's fascinating.
one thing that you talk about inthe course is.
You know our nervous systemresponse and instead of saying
(18:26):
hey Here's how you work withyour kids on their nervous
system response.
You say hey, what about yours?
How do you handle your ownnervous system response?
I thought that was incrediblyvaluable because I think
sometimes we show up as adultsand we're like, we are what we
are Right now we can help ourkids But the truth is there's so
much that we can learn to helpourselves because there's so
(18:48):
much that we don't know.
You From the way that we grew upfrom the way that our parents
didn't know how to parent us.
And so why is that somethingthat you focus on?
I know why, but can you tell usa little bit more about why you
focus on, your own triggers andyour own responses to different
things that your kids are doingbefore you dive into how to work
with your kids?
Lindsay (19:08):
I learned this one the hard way.
So I have a lot in my past, alot of developmental trauma.
So just trauma throughoutchildhood.
And I always knew what kind ofparent I wanted to be and how I
wanted to parent my kids.
And then I learned about theirnervous systems and how to help
them.
And then I realized that I can'thelp them if I can't do it
(19:31):
myself because there's mirrorneurons.
Their nervous system feeds on mynervous system.
And I was having those samemoments where you snap and you
yell.
And that's the last thing Iwanted to do as a parent.
I'm an intellectualizer.
So I think if I know theinformation, that's enough,
right?
And so I really had to learnthat I can't out think my
(19:53):
nervous system.
And I had to take the time tofocus on myself.
And that is the biggest shiftI've ever seen in my parenting
and in just like the peace inour home.
And that's when I realized that,it's important for mothers,
parents to know that.
Because at the time we wereworking on I had a course called
(20:14):
coping for kids.
We were working on like kidswith their nervous systems,
learning coping skills, allthose things.
Paige (20:20):
really great way to
Lindsay (20:22):
The number one thing that people would also say is
the hardest part of helpingtheir child calm down was
calming themselves down.
And I was like, okay, so this isthe foundational piece that is
missing to make all of theseother things work.
And so that's how I was like,okay, we have to teach about our
nervous systems and how toregulate first.
Paige (20:43):
Yeah, absolutely, and, I think it's the same when Lindsay
and I talk, About things withinthe business, we're 98 percent
of the time, on the exact samepage and like thought process.
And the 2 percent is,Miscommunication because I'm not
understanding what's happening.
And the science of it is to wehappen to work in a field where
(21:05):
we work with a lot of kids,right?
And parents want their kids tothrive and do well.
And so they want to fix thesechildren's behaviors.
They want to give them tools tosupport them.
But.
A lot of the times, it doesn'tmatter how much we teach the
children to be able to do it ifwe can't infiltrate the family
system.
So it's if as a family we aren'table to do these things, we
(21:26):
won't be able to reinforce itwith your children to help them
thrive.
So if we can get you to thriveand understand why that's
important, even just takingsteps towards it, your children
will be like ten fold better forit.
Lindsay (21:38):
Also think Paige, and you might disagree, but it's you
have to experience it to be ableto teach it in some ways.
like the embodiment of having aregulated nervous system.
Paige (21:51):
Mm hmm.
Lindsay (21:51):
aren't aware of until they become more in tune with
it.
And once you know what it feelslike, then it's easier to help
walk your child throughregulating their nervous system.
Megs (22:03):
Yeah.
I've noticed that a ton.
I, know when I used to throwtemper tantrums as a kid, Now my
kids are throwing tempertantrums And, my initial
reaction is to react is to saystop doing that, like that's not
what's acceptable.
and I knew that's not the way Iwanted to react, but I didn't
know what else to do.
(22:23):
it's so interesting because, youmentioned how you knew how you
wanted to parent, but then if wewere parented a different way,
there's only one way we reallyknow, no matter how much we want
to do something, unless we startto learn and to practice in a
different way, we're just goingto show up with like our best.
And so there wasn't like, therewas so many things that I wanted
(22:45):
to do and wanted to show up as aparent, but I didn't know how to
do it.
And so there was a lot of shamein that.
Cause I'd walk away from yellingand What the hell?
this isn't what I.
want to do this isn't what I'mtrying to do.
and I don't want to have thesememories with my kids, but, my
daughter this morning, it waslast night she pulled the cat's
tail and I saw her do this and Iwas like, Oh, what are you
(23:06):
doing?
And she freaked out.
And it was like an immediateresponse.
Cause she knew she had donesomething wrong.
And.
It was like, I felt myselftightening up.
Like I felt my chest gettingtighter.
I felt like I could react inthis situation.
but I actually just kept myvoice really quiet and I was
like, Hey, you're not introuble, but I do want to talk
to you about this.
(23:27):
And I was like, if you want togo to your cozy corner And
settle down, which is somethingI created, cause you guys
recommended it.
So both my kids have a cozycorner now with some quiet time
activities, some soft
Paige (23:38):
see you all.
Megs (23:39):
sit.
It's so, Oh my gosh, my sevenyear old is up.
She's what else could we add toour cozy corner?
And, yeah, but it was neatbecause instead of reacting and
instead of, freaking out abouther pulling the cat's tail, I
was able to allow her to calmdown first, and I also allowed
myself to calm down.
And I went in curious, so, Istarted asking her some more
(24:02):
questions about Hey, what wentthrough your mind with that?
And I also know that with ADHD,it comes with a lot of
impulsivity.
And so, Hey, did you think aboutthat before you pulled the cat's
tail?
And yeah, it was just reallyneat to be able to approach it
from that perspective.
So.
Seeing my kids have tempertantrums and knowing that it's a
nervous system response now hashelped me so much Because it
(24:26):
helps me recognize when my chestis tightening And when I'm
starting to have that nervoussystem response so that I can go
do some deep breathing or like Idon't know go lay on a floor and
look up at the Ceiling for asecond because I need to get out
of that space I've also beentaking my kids for drives or to
get out of the house.
If I can feel us, like on theverge of, a meltdown or
(24:48):
something like that, there'sbeen so many things that I've
learned and it's really helped.
And, for me, I've known thatI've had ADHD.
There's a lot that I've learnedfrom that.
But I know there's a lot ofparents out there that are just
finding out that their kids areneurodivergent.
They have no idea that they'reneurodivergent either, and so
there's a lot of explorationhere.
(25:08):
And I think there's a lot ofshame that can go into it when
you start to say Oh my gosh, Ihave been doing this all wrong
for so long.
I'm curious what you would sayto those parents who are just
starting to discover how theycan parent in a different way.
And that there is a differentway.
how can we eliminate the shameand turn that into growth
instead?
Lindsay (25:29):
I firmly believe that every parent, and I know Paige
feels the same way because we'vetalked a lot about our values
but that every parent is doingthe best that they can with the
knowledge that they have.
And so, and a lot of what you'retrying to do and where the shame
comes from, I think, is you'retrying these things.
parenting techniques that peopleare recommending.
You see them on TikTok.
(25:50):
Even some of the gentleparenting techniques on TikTok.
They're not bad.
They just aren't going to workfor the way your child's brain
is, right?
And so we look at it and we say,we're doing it wrong.
And it's not that you're doinganything wrong.
It's that we're learning how todo it right.
And that's what all of us aredoing because even our parenting
techniques, and we talk aboutthis a lot in our small group,
(26:12):
we can give you all of theseoptions, but what's going to
work for your family and yourspecific child is going to be
unique to their brain and howthey operate.
And so it's just, it's all trialand error, even for us in our
own homes.
with our own children.
I try stuff all the time and I'mlike, that, that was bad.
That was bad.
Paige (26:34):
Yep, exactly.
And I think too, we are just soexposed and consume so much
media around what is goodparenting, what you should be
doing in parenting.
And all of the shoulds arethings we try to keep out of it.
It's we're exposed to thesethings constantly, where we're,
you And I think a lot of us haddifficult childhoods just
(26:57):
comparatively.
So we're swinging the pendulumin the opposite direction where
we're almost over correcting andwanting to be like perfect and
do the perfect things.
And so another thing that weoften talk about is the more,
you know, the better you do,That's like our catchphrase, not
coined by me.
It's somewhere on the internet,I'm sure.
But also like more importantthan what you do in the moment
(27:19):
is the opportunity to repair.
It will always be moreimportant.
So if you feel like you triedsomething and it didn't work,
it's okay to share that withyour kids.
And if you feel like a repair isneeded to apologize and
reconnect.
Yeah.
Lindsay (27:44):
now 13 and I'm just discovering this way of
parenting and there may be, butyou can have a conversation
about that and repair and it isjust as healing and restorative
so just remembering that as youlearn and grow and have
conversations with your kids, ifyou're open to hearing their
experience, to talking withthem, to taking accountability
(28:06):
for things, it's going to beokay.
And most of the time, if you'reworried about being a good mom,
you are a good mom.
So do
Megs (28:18):
And this rings true for me is that you're the best mom out
there for your kids, like you'vemade them and there's no one
else that you would trustraising your kids.
Like you are the one for them.
And as you continue to learn andgrow, you'll continue to show up
in newer and better ways, aslong as you're trying.
So I love that, In the end, welove our kids so much and we're
(28:38):
going to do so much for them.
I think, I do find itinteresting about like the
different generations.
I think as millennials and GenZ, we're learning so much about
the parenting experience.
And I think that there's a lotof healing that also probably
needs to be done.
I know from my own experience inthe way that we are parented
there's a lot that we're tryingto break those generational
(28:58):
curses and try to do differentthings when we're also seeing
our parents and possibly theirparents that aren't doing
anything about it, right?
Like they're at the point thatthey are, there's no more
learning or growing.
And so it's, making peace withthat.
And helping our kids learn andgrow in a different way.
Paige (29:17):
Yeah.
Megs (29:17):
okay.
so tell me a little bit abouthow you possibly stay organized
with everything you have goingon.
You each have two businesses,right?
and ADHD husbands.
what does that look like?
Lindsay (29:29):
I'm a shit show.
Paige (29:32):
all are, right?
I think we have a, like, when Ivery first met Lindsay, I was
talking to her about this ideaof, mom guilt, and the mindset
of mom guilt, and how, we hadmoved to an area that was, like,
super judgmental, andeveryone's, anti all these
things, and all of your food,and it all has to be home, it
was this whole ordeal, so I hadspent like 12 hours trying
(29:54):
Making this soup for my kidswith these organic ingredients
and these dry beans and like allthis stuff and like homemade
bread and like we sat down atthe table and they literally
were like not eating that andthen got up and walked away and
I was like how dumb that I feltlike I needed to be trapped in
this space of what theexpectation of everything around
me told me I needed to do to bea good mom when in reality like
(30:17):
my kids love freaking tomatosoup and a quesadilla.
I put myself in that position.
so this idea of like, how to beorganized, Lindsey and I talk a
lot about, especially lastseason on the podcast, because
it's all about ADHD andorganizing your life with ADHD
and understanding it and makingit work for you.
I call them life hacks.
Lindsey does too, pretty much,where we like, hack our house in
(30:39):
a way that makes the most sensefor us.
And so that's different for eachperson.
But some like unconventionalthings that I do is I have a go
bag, which is like something inmy car that has everything that
I would need because I willinevitably forget something.
I just will.
So it just lives in the car.
So then whatever I need will bein the car and I don't have to
(31:01):
worry about it.
everything has a home.
So in my house, the things thatI need have a home and it's not
cutesy.
It's not cutesy, but it ismindful.
Because I don't remember where Iset things down.
So if it has a designated place,then predictably, it will be in
that place when I need it, evenif I can't remember putting it
(31:23):
there.
with our family, we do a Sundayfamily reset.
And so that looks like togetheras a family, we have a list of
chores that we all completetogether as a family.
And recently I put together likea visual chart for my kids each,
specifically for their bedrooms.
(31:44):
So I try to stay between threeto six tasks because it's
something we've been practicingBut like each one is a picture
And so when it's hey, it's timeto clean your room Like I can
body double for them, but theycan direct themselves at this
point of okay, i'm right here Ineed to pick up the dishes.
I need to pick up the trash.
I need to pick up my toys I needto make my bed.
So being able to like worktogether as a family body double
(32:07):
as a family You It makes a hugedifference just knowing we're
all NeuroSpicy, so that's justlike a few of my personal life
hacks on being organized, atleast in the home.
Megs (32:19):
Yeah.
Lindsay (32:20):
yeah, mine are similar.
I have a laundry basket and likethe common areas of my house
because they're, I feel likeclothes just end up laying on
the floor everywhere.
I don't know.
My kids don't like to wearclothes most of the time.
They just, or they change theiroutfit.
So I've got laundry basketseverywhere so that, it's easy to
just put it in the basket.
I live by the reminders.
(32:41):
This app on my iPhone, I have itlike broken down into categories
based on which business and thepage.
And I have one and we can justassign who needs to do what or
what we're working on.
And let's see other things.
We also do we clean and reset asa family, because of the body
(33:03):
doubling piece.
We usually do once in theevenings, we like pick up all
the floors or, put stuff awayand then take care of the
animals together.
And we all rotate jobs.
As far as organizing my house,that's something I'm really
working on.
So I don't know if you have moretips than I do about that, but.
I do know that I need to keepthe things that I use the most
(33:27):
visible or I will forget thatthey exist.
And so I'm trying to find a wayto do that.
That is still clean andorganized.
Megs (33:36):
I love that.
I, and I love the way that youspeak about it too, because I
think what we see on socialmedia is what people then think
that organized needs to be.
But organized just meansWhatever you desire it to mean
like making a definition foryour family and what works for
you And like I love the idea ofhaving a go bag in your car
(33:56):
that's something that you canjust go to because you know that
there's going to be things inthere like snacks or I know my
daughter in the car gets carsick And so we always have to
have those little bands in thecar or like dramamine or
something so that she willactually go on the highway with
us without crying the wholetime, there's so many things
That we have to just figure outwhat works for us instead of
what works for social media andwhat we think that we have To do
(34:20):
so thank you for sharing becauseI you know I think that's the
same with parenting right likewhat works for me isn't
necessarily going to work forthe next person And that's why I
don't have a video out there.
That's like how to have aperfectly organized desk Because
it's going to be different foreveryone and it's going to make
sense differently depending onthe way that you live your life.
And so, yeah, there's alwaysways that we can improve.
(34:43):
and there's always ways that wecan grow our knowledge to build
upon that, which is really cool.
one thing that you guys helpedme with too, I listened to your
podcast and I say this to myhusband now, I shared it with
him.
is you were like, you know what?
If I was dead, my husband wouldbe able to figure it out.
I'm like, I can't tell you howmuch that has helped me because
(35:05):
sometimes I hear him talking tothe kids and I'm like, Oh, he's
doing it wrong.
But I'm like, Okay.
I need to take a step back.
And yeah.
Sometimes I just need to allowhim to go in there and make the
mistakes that I've already madeso that he can also learn
himself
Lindsay (35:20):
page when we were recording it.
This is morbid, but let's like,if I was dead, Zane's got this.
Yeah.
Paige (35:27):
And some people that like don't struggle with that are
like, that's weird.
Why would you say that?
And then my husband was like,the other day he reminded me
that I was dead.
He was like, remember you'redead.
And I was like, Oh yeah, I'mdead.
You got this.
Lindsay (35:43):
it is so important to, I think, to let our partners or
co parents go through the sameprocess because, especially if
they're neurodivergent, I knowthere's some drive for autonomy
or demand avoidance in myhusband, and so hearing me say
it makes him less likely to tryit than to experience it
himself, and so me being deadand backing off gives him that
(36:07):
opportunity.
Megs (36:08):
Yeah.
I like that too.
I found myself asking him too.
I'm like, Hey, do you want myadvice or do you want to just
play this out the way thatyou're doing it?
I find that's so fascinatingbecause we take on so much as
moms, as business owners, astrying to do it all.
That if we try to parent them toand teach them everything that
(36:30):
we know, they're not going tolearn.
And we need to be able to relyon them.
And by taking a step back andsaying no, you'd be able to
handle it.
And I trust you.
That almost gives them theempowerment to learn themselves
too.
Instead of just waiting for usto tell them everything they
know that they are empowered.
So,
Paige (36:46):
I think it definitely also benefits us because if you
can get to the place where youcan successfully.
feel like you're letting go ofsome portion, like you can trust
in your partner, then you'regoing to have more space and
time in yourself for things thatyou need, which is another part
of what we talk about when wecover like nervous system,
right?
if we're doing and being at all,even when you have a partner,
(37:09):
you are not able to care foryourself in a way where you can
also show up for your family.
And so I work with a lot ofwomen who are like, I just could
never know.
what would happen if you justdidn't like, what would happen
if you went to the gym and letyour husband do school drop off
instead?
You're like, I just, that'sjust, I don't know.
And I was like, you figure itout.
(37:31):
this is one of your goals thatthey'll figure it out.
Megs (37:34):
right.
They'll make mistakes and that'sokay.
Paige (37:39):
Yeah.
And their relationship will bebetter.
The parent child relationshipwill be better because of those
mistakes.
Megs (37:46):
I find that the more I learned too.
And the more that we learn aboutourselves as people with ADHD is
like, we're able to help eachother tap out.
this morning, my husband washaving a really hard time with
the kids.
So I was like, get out of here.
I got this.
And so like, when we can noticethat in one another, we show up
as a team more.
And then we, I know that he'lltell me to get out of the room
if he notices that he can handlethis better.
(38:09):
And it's interesting too, islike when you start to notice
those things.
I almost am ready to show upbetter because I know that he
needs me to and vice versabecause we are starting to
recognize that in one another.
And so it's neat to be able tohave that partner.
I know not everyone has that,right?
And that's hard too, I'm curiousif you guys wanted to do an
(38:30):
exercise like you did in yourworkshop for low demand
parenting, or on your podcast,because I find that was
something that was reallyhelpful for me.
Lindsay (38:39):
Yeah,
Megs (38:40):
cool.
Lindsay (38:41):
we trying to figure out?
Give us an example.
Do
Megs (38:44):
one thing I've seen come up lately, and I know I'm a
culprit of this too, is sayingIt's time to clean your room
right now.
Now is the time I've decidedthat like now is the time that
you have to clean their room,your room, go get it done.
And then my kids will go in andthey'll just play in their room,
which causes me to have someadditional anxiety about that.
(39:05):
I want my kids to clean theirroom when.
when.
I tell them to, and they're notdoing it, what, how do I get
through to that?
Lindsay (39:13):
Why is it important that your kids clean your room,
the room at that specific time?
Megs (39:19):
I guess it's because I've noticed that the room is messy.
And so it feels like it'simportant that before they go to
bed, before we start a week,before, before we move on to
something that could make thehouse even more messy, that
their room needs to be cleanbecause it feels like a fresh
start.
Lindsay (39:37):
And if there's not a fresh start, what would that
mean?
Megs (39:41):
But the room would stay messy.
I
Lindsay (39:44):
And what's the problem with that,
Megs (39:47):
guess I recognize the feeling of it being clean.
As like the feeling is nicer, itfeels a little bit more
peaceful, but it's also not myroom that I'm spending time in,
right?
I'm putting them to bed in thatroom, but it doesn't necessarily
mean that it has to be clean forme.
(40:09):
But I wonder if they're feelingsome of the same things that I'm
feeling in their room.
For sure.
Paige (40:16):
So it sounds like it's important to you for your kids
to have a clean room because ifyour home doesn't feel a level
of cleaner organized than youexperienced.
More anxiety, which you know isharder on your nervous system
and you don't show up like youwant to and then You also
believe like that couldpotentially be why your kids
aren't able to show up like theywant to So here's my question
(40:40):
then and this would take somelike conversation with your kids
What do they want their room tolook like so they can show up as
their best selves?
What does that feel like forthem?
Lindsay (40:52):
I'd even have them show you.
Megs (40:54):
Oh, that's brilliant.
I like that because I, it'sfunny.
My daughter sees me organizing,right?
And I've helped them organizetheir room to put things in
certain places.
And my seven year old looks atme the other day.
She's mom, why don't we havelabels?
Like you've done in the otherkids rooms.
And I was like, Oh, do you wantlabels?
And she's like, yeah, I wantlabels, which is so funny
(41:15):
because I'm like, withoutlabels, how are your kids going
to know where to put thingsback?
And that's literally then whatshe told me.
Paige (41:21):
and I have very different personalities with my kids too.
So one way that we've workedthrough dropping some of these
demands is I have created thosecharts like I was telling you
and I can I share my screen?
Is that a thing here?
Lindsay (41:35):
How fancy.
Megs (41:35):
Oh my
Paige (41:36):
gosh, okay.
So I have these like editable,edit
Megs (41:42):
gosh.
Cute.
Lindsay (41:43):
just have those like ready to
Paige (41:45):
Yeah, I just have them because I'm a creature of
resources.
and then I, so I broke it downto six steps, right?
Six steps for what their roomfeels like for them and just
generalize it.
And I don't have it saved withwhat I did, but it was like,
pick up toys.
Make it neat and tidy.
So that's our phrase and neatand tidy looks different for
(42:07):
each of my kids.
One is very organized, wantslabels like this, everything is
categorized.
The other one just organizes thechaos on top of the dresser, but
everything and every piece ofpaper and cardboard box is
important to them.
Megs (42:23):
it.
Paige (42:23):
for them, that neat and tidy is those cardboard boxes,
like being lined up or whatever.
Like cool.
Defined by them.
And so I wasn't actually surehow this would go because I used
to body double and walk throughit with them one by one hey
we're doing this and then we'redoing this and then we're doing
this and so this last week I waslike hey look on the back of
your door you guys each have achart for the steps of your room
(42:47):
and they're all labeled with ourcommon terms and I printed them
in black and white and then theycolored them and I put them in
like a page protector and justtaped it to the back of the
door.
but they were able to look at itthemselves and it was easy to
redirect.
Cause if they came out of theirspace, I was like, what step are
you on?
And they're like, oh, I'm ondishes and garbage.
(43:09):
I'm like, awesome.
Like you're halfway there.
And then they have the freedomto pick which step they're going
to do, how it's going to bedefined and look like for them
and how much time each steptakes.
But they like, and I would checkin, And I even was prepared to
body double.
And then.
They didn't need me.
I was like, what?
hurt, but okay.
Megs (43:30):
I saw a TikTok video the other day of a woman who, she
did something like that, but shecut them all up and put them in
a bowl.
And with that, she also put likelittle rewards in there, have a
piece of candy.
You get five minutes of tablettime.
But in order for you to get topull something out, you would
have to complete the first task.
And then that was how she gotthem to complete their room.
(43:52):
So making it a fun game, anddoing one thing at a time.
okay, only go and pick up thestuffed animals, and then come
back and grab something else.
So, I thought that was reallycool too, and totally outside
the box.
I was like, why didn't I thinkof that?
it's just so interesting.
The things we learn from talkingto our kids.
Cause I think at least in mychildhood, I was told what to do
(44:13):
a lot.
And I never was asked what Iwanted.
And that's one of the firstthings I asked kids when I go
in, what do you want your roomto be.
What do you want this to looklike for you?
And what does organized mean?
Do you know what that means?
And do you know where things go?
And that's a lot of the thingstoo.
It's kids don't even know wherethings go and you're asking them
to put them away.
I know I used to shove thingsunder my bed.
(44:34):
it's a way you told me to put itaway.
Paige (44:37):
Exactly.
And when we're talking aboutlike Why this was an important
value for you, right?
It makes sense.
You want them to have a cleanspace.
You want them to feel good init.
And then being able to get theirengagement and defining what
that looks like.
And then also handing over therest of it, right?
We handed over the what, how thewin, why all back to them, just
(45:00):
with the expectation that theywere going to create a safe
space for themselves, that'sultimately your value here.
Megs (45:07):
yeah, I like that a lot.
Thank you for that, right?
it's fascinating how manydemands we have as moms until we
start to question them.
I've, it's been.
A very interesting journey to beon so
Paige (45:20):
There's a many a time when I say no and my kids say
why, and I'm like,
Lindsay (45:25):
Actually, I don't know why.
Go
Paige (45:27):
yep,
Lindsay (45:27):
Yeah.
Paige (45:28):
I'm like, actually, I don't have a reason, never mind,
go ahead, do the thing.
Megs (45:32):
I know I grew up where it was like, no, mom is right.
And there's no questioning her.
I think it's just really neat tohave that dialogue with your
kids where you still have likeauthority, so to speak, but it's
a dialogue where they canquestion you.
And you can start to workthrough some of the things where
you have that relationshipinstead of just a you do this
and you have to do this type ofthing.
Lindsay (45:53):
the goal is to teach them life skills, not to manage
and micromanage their life.
And so we sometimes we thinklife skills means them doing it
our way, and that's notaccurate.
Paige (46:07):
Yeah,
Megs (46:07):
brilliant.
That's a great perspective.
Thank you guys so much for beinghere today.
I like, it's been so amazingworking with you.
can you tell us real quick aboutyour small group and how people
can find You
Lindsay (46:18):
You can find us on Facebook.
TikTok at Mindful as a Mother,Instagram at Mindful as a Mother
Co, I think.
We also have an email list ifyou want to hop on and join
newsletters and I'll let Paigetell you about our small group.
Paige (46:33):
Yeah.
So our small group is a fourweek small group that we've
priced at 150 for four weeks.
They happen consecutively.
What we cover is the first twoweeks is the understanding of
the nervous system, what thatlooks like for you and your
kids, why it's important, likewe briefly touched on and then
skills to support you and yourkids in those like fight flight.
(46:54):
I'm going to fight you becauseyou're the parent things.
And then weeks three and fourare really tailored to the
individual group.
so what specifically thosepeople in that group are seeking
out of it is how we create thecontent to be most supportive.
Each week we do anindividualized Q& A, and then we
also opportunities for some oneon one coaching.
if participants feel like theyneed more support and one of our
(47:18):
very favorite things andpriorities from the group is
being able to create the senseof community that you're not the
only one doing this.
and we've all experienced thesethings.
It's not as isolating as itfeels.
Megs (47:30):
That's awesome.
Thank you so much.
And I highly recommend it causeI've done it.
I'd like to do it again becauseI feel like there's so much more
that I can learn from that.
And thank you both so much forbeing here today.
Thanks for sharing yourexpertise and I'll put all of
the links in the show notesbelow so people can get in
contact with you.
Paige (47:47):
thank you.
MacBook Pro Microphone-1 (47:49):
That conversation was so awesome.
Paige and Lindsay are such awealth of knowledge.
And I also love theirvulnerability and honesty.
I think sometimes we look atmotherhood and we see other moms
and we compare ourselves tothese women who are doing it
seemingly perfectly.
And then we look at ourselvesand beat ourselves up because
(48:10):
we're doing everything wrong.
But it's just so nice to be ableto have real conversations.
Talk about the things that we dofeel shame around, understand
that we're not alone in it.
And then be able to make themodifications and understand how
to actually make modificationsin mothering.
So that we can show up betterthan we did before.
(48:33):
And I was also having aconversation recently with
another neurodivergent mom whoparents neurodivergent kids.
She was taking a course as well.
And she doesn't have asignificant other partner to tap
her out.
And so she has the support ofthis other parenting group.
That's just helping her through,they call it the tunnel.
(48:54):
When her kids can't be consoled,they are.
Not in a place where logic isgoing to support them at all.
You can't tell them to stop.
They're just going through it.
And.
Having to sit through and helpthem regulate their own emotions
without being to tap out.
That's a whole nother level.
And I know Paige and Lindsay canhelp with that as well.
(49:16):
They have experienced doing, Ithink Paige touched on that a
little bit too, but I wanted tomake sure that I highlighted
that.
I loved how Lindsay talked abouthow the biggest shift in her own
parenting.
Was understanding herself.
And I have to say ditto.
It has been such a game changerTo just recognize when I might
(49:39):
be experiencing dysregulation sothat I can start to put together
some techniques that could helpme.
And sometimes it is.
Going in my closet and sittingin the corner and having a good
cry, honestly.
Or, you know, tapping out andclosing the door.
But whatever works for you.
It's just really nice to knowthat we're not alone in this.
(50:03):
Another thing is finding whatworks for your family and not
just taking a piece of advice,trying it once and failing.
And then just thinking thatyou're bad at it and beating
yourself up and going on.
I really highly recommend thatyou sign up for Paige in
Lindsay's a small group.
They mentioned it's$150.
I forget how many weeks it is,but it's incredible.
(50:25):
It's currently open for newmembers.
All of the links are in the shownotes below.
You won't want to miss thechance to learn directly from
them They ask you questions.
They help you work through yourown specific needs.
They're just incredible.
I also want just last week, myown membership community.
I'm so excited to invite you tojoin.
(50:49):
When you join your first monthis$5 off with the code podcast.
Now regular monthly cost isgoing to be$27 a month.
You're going to get a monthlybody doubling from me.
You'll also get a monthly Q anda, which is group coaching.
Just work a little bit deeperinto your own organizing journey
(51:09):
and figuring out what works foryou.
I've wanted to create acommunity for a really long
time.
And I'm so excited to inviteyou.
There's so many things that I'minviting you to.
Go with what makes the mostsense for you in this moment?
And if, what makes the mostsense for you as listening to
this podcast?
Awesome.
Is it learning how to parent alittle bit more?
(51:32):
All the links are in the shownotes below.
no matter what, let's keepbuilding a community that
supports and uplifts oneanother.
If you enjoyed this episode,leave a review, share it with
someone who needs to hear this.
Your support means the world tome.
And I know some people recentlyhave said.
I love your podcast so much.
(51:53):
And I have so many people whocould benefit from hearing this
message.
But they're hesitant to send itto them because they're so
nervous that they're going totake it the wrong way.
And so from that, it's just alittle bit of communication
again.
And I would say, ask thosepeople a question before you
send it.
If you're concerned about it andsay, Hey.
(52:15):
I'm listening to this reallycool podcast about organizing an
ADHD brain.
I thought of you.
Would it be okay if I sent thisand you don't even have to say,
I thought of, you could justsay.
I really want to share itbecause the host told me to.
You don't put it back on me.
It's totally cool.
and take a listen and then youcan send a link if they say yes
(52:36):
or no.
until next time.
Thank you so much for tuning in.
Thank you so much for sharingyour awesome stories about how
the podcast is supporting you.
Oh, I also have two morecoaching spots starting in the
month of February.
So if you want to get in onthat, Just go to the link in the
show notes below and get on acall with me.
I'd love to chat and see ifcoaching is a good fit for you.
(52:59):
See you next week.
Popular Podcasts
Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang
Ding dong! Join your culture consultants, Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang, on an unforgettable journey into the beating heart of CULTURE. Alongside sizzling special guests, they GET INTO the hottest pop-culture moments of the day and the formative cultural experiences that turned them into Culturistas. Produced by the Big Money Players Network and iHeartRadio.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com