August 11, 2025 • 47 mins
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Megs welcomes ADHD therapist and coach Jenna Free to discuss dealing with ADHD by regulating and balancing your life. Jenna talks about her own diagnosis and how she uses her experience to help others manage their ADHD. Key points include the importance of understanding dysregulation, how ADHD and disordered eating are connected, and how to live a more present, sustainable, and enjoyable life. Jenna shares practical tips on how to notice signs of dysregulation, slow down, and regulate your mind and body. Tune in for insightful conversations, personal stories, and helpful strategies to make living with ADHD a little easier.
01:15 Jenna's Journey with ADHD
01:29 Connecting ADHD and Disordered Eating
07:13 The ADHD Flow Framework
07:44 Balancing Life with ADHD
09:21 Understanding Dysregulation
11:05 Practical Tips for Self-Regulation
16:23 The Importance of Being Present
20:33 Rethinking Productivity and Success
23:28 The Importance of Taking Breaks
25:06 Mindful Organization and Regulation
27:50 In-the-Moment Regulation Techniques
30:34 Handling Dysregulation and Compulsive Behaviors
36:52 Building Regulation Skills Over Time
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Hey, beautiful people.
(00:01):
It's Megs and welcome back toorganizing an A DHD Brain as I
get ready to launch season threethis September, I wanted to
revisit a few episodes thatstill hold so much truth,
whether it's your first timehearing them or they're coming
back to meet you in a new way.
They're worth another.
Listen, this next season is allabout the messy middle, where
(00:23):
your brain still wants to do itall or nothing at all, and
you're learning how to take onesmall step.
Anyway, I've been in it too,letting go rebuilding, figuring
out exactly what works for mybrain, and you don't have to do
it like I did, but you can do itwith awkward steps, with
emotion, and with way more gracethan you're probably giving
(00:43):
yourself.
So let this episode be areminder.
You don't have to be fullyunburied to move forward.
You're allowed to want more joyand you're absolutely capable of
creating change right where youare.
Let's jump in.
Megs (00:56):
I am here with Jenna.
I am so excited.
She is an ADHD therapist andcoach, and I found her on
Instagram because her incrediblevideos resonated with me so
much.
so Jenna, tell us a little bitabout you.
Tell us about the work you do.
Yes.
Hello.
I am someone who was diagnosedwith ADHD in adulthood.
(01:18):
I think as many people are thesedays.
And when that happened, I went,Oh, okay.
Yes.
It's all making sense now.
So it was a long journey to gethere through life.
I used to actually be a coachfor intuitive eating and
disordered eating, which I nowknow is so intertwined with
ADHD.
And the way we think and howthings can play out.
(01:39):
So I actually coached aroundthat for seven years and
repaired my own relationshipwith restriction and binge
eating and disordered eating.
And so that was a beautifulhealing process.
And then when I got diagnosedwith ADHD, why I see ADHD
differently and why I teach in akind of a little bit of a
different way, that's usuallythe comment I get is no one's
(01:59):
talking about it in this way isbecause I see the parallels of
disordered eating and ourrelationship with food is how
the same thing with our brain.
Like for instance, oh yeah, ifyou restrict you're going to
binge.
If you're in a frantic, intensestate, you're going to crash.
Like it's just, humans are verypredictable.
So we're, our brains are alwayson these, we're functioning from
(02:21):
these cycles.
So if we go too far one way,we're going to have an opposite
reaction the other way.
And so I've seen both witheating, like intuitive eating is
very allow all foods, findbalance.
Yes, you want to eat well, butyou.
Also need to allow some dessertor else you're going to binge.
And so it's the same withfunctioning with ADHD is we
can't get too ramped up or elsewe're going to crash.
(02:42):
So how do we find that balanceand flow and way of living in
this sustainable and enjoyableway?
And I think where sometimeswe've gotten tripped up or the
mainstream messaging around ADHDisn't quite there yet.
Cause I, I find the overall, noteverybody, of course, but the
overall energy is like workharder, do these hacks, use
(03:03):
these timers.
Okay.
Set a timer and then work reallyhard for 15 minutes and then see
how much you can get done andgamify it.
And it's a very I'd say it wasvery like masculine, like
intense energy around ADHD andhow to cope with it, where my
history has made me see that'slike actually taking our foot
off the gas pedal, slowing downa little bit, regulating.
That's a lot of the work I do.
(03:25):
Working on our flexible thinkingand this gentleness actually
then lets the brain open up tobe more productive, but we're
losing that message andeveryone's trying so hard and
it's just making it even harder.
one video that I watched.
you talked about giving upsocial media and how annoyed you
(03:46):
were at what a difference it wasmaking in your life.
it resonated with me so muchbecause that is such a thing
that I struggle with.
And at the same time.
I also know how incredible itcan be.
Your words are beautiful.
And the work that you're doingis really incredible.
(04:06):
Can you tell us a little bitabout your journey on when you
were diagnosed, what that waslike and.
How you got to the space thatyou're in now?
Sure.
So it's after I had kids, when Ireally felt my, it was more and
more obvious okay yeah,something's different.
Something is up here, somethingis the word I had at the time
something's wrong.
(04:27):
And as I researched, I'm like, Ithink it's ADHD, which seemed
weird to me because I am a, highachieving, outwardly appearing,
successful person.
And that's not the messaging wehear about ADHD.
I was always a calm, girl, onlychild goody.
What are you talking about?
How could I have ADHD?
I wasn't running around.
I was never disruptive.
I was always doing well inschool.
(04:48):
But now that I see how Iactually did a lot of like
strategies.
And coping subconsciously to doall of that.
But after I had kids, that'swhen it really got to the point
of okay this is different.
I'm functioning differently thanother people function.
Why is this happening?
So for about two years, I waslike, to my parents specifically
I think I have ADHD.
(05:08):
And, of course, they don't knowwhat that is.
Looks like especially in women,they're like, no, you're crazy.
No, you don't, you do so well inlife.
But then eventually I wasactually in grad school to
become a therapist.
And as a parent of two at thatpoint, I was like, okay, I am
not doing well.
I am struggling hard.
So I really want to go get anassessment.
(05:30):
So it was very privileged.
My parents helped me pay for itbecause it was a very expensive.
Now I know some more affordableoptions, but and I got the, yes,
you have ADHD and it was justlike, thank God it wasn't that I
know it's something is going on.
So that was really great.
It was just a nice thing toknow.
Okay.
I am not.
(05:50):
just individually weird.
There's a reason for it.
It's not a personal failing.
I'm not just quirky.
Like I think in a different way.
And I always knew that, but nowI just enjoyed having a solid
thing to point that tounderstand why.
And then as I was in grad schoolto become a therapist, I of
course was like ADHD is veryrelevant to me.
(06:13):
So I want to learn and researchand take courses and do as much
as possible so I can work withpeople with ADHD, because I'm a
big fan of working with someonewho experiences what you're
going through.
Similar to when I was workingwith disordered eating, I had
that connection with my clientsof.
I've been there and I know, sothen I started researching and I
(06:33):
also saw that nobody knows whatto do with us.
Every course I took was liketimers, calendars, this is all
you have to teach me to helppeople, but okay.
So then I started working withpeople and then after, hundreds
of hours of working with ADHDersone on one, I started making the
connection of how this cycle ofbeing dysregulated in this
frantic state and crashing isthe core of our struggle.
(06:56):
That if we're not dealing withthat timers, calendars, little
doodads we're not going to breakthrough enough to make a
lifelong difference.
Those tools can be very valuableand useful.
But it can't be everything.
And so then that's how Ideveloped the framework I use
now, which I don't know reallyhas a name.
(07:18):
I call it ADHD flow, but it'sreally focusing on regulation
and balancing everything.
Our thinking, our schedules, ournervous systems.
And finding the sustainable andenjoyable way to live.
It's just like a way that youcan live forever instead of
feeling like you're alwayshanging by a thread or white
knuckling it or always trying toplay catch up.
we can't do that forever.
(07:39):
It's too tiring.
Oh my gosh.
Absolutely.
How old are your kids, by theway?
Four and five boys.
They are absolute terrors in thebest of ways.
That's awesome.
Mine are five and seven and Ihave two girls.
So I feel like that's adifferent vibe.
It's totally different.
I don't know that I would knowwhat to do with boys, but
(08:02):
likewise, right?
Yeah, exactly.
it was interesting because Inever understood the correlation
between eating disorders andADHD until more recently.
And I've struggled with food myentire life.
And it wasn't until, I think itwas two years ago now, I have to
do, math in my head.
(08:22):
But I had bariatric surgery andI lost 120 pounds.
And I thought that was going tofix everything.
I just thought, I'm like, okay,once I lose weight, Everything
will be fine, except that therewas so much work and I was
meeting with a therapist, butthere was so much work that I
still hadn't done up here that Ihad to work through.
(08:45):
And I'm still working through tothis day.
So coming back to the selfregulation, what's one of the
first pieces of advice?
You give to people with ADHD towork on their self regulation?
So curious.
Yes.
I typically work in groups now.
So I mostly work in groups ofseven people.
(09:08):
So it's more of a, Teaching kindof the concepts, but then, of
course, I ask everybody, howdoes this relate to you?
Do you connect with this?
How do you see this play out inyour own life?
I've never had someone say I donot relate to this.
So it's inherent.
it's part of all of us withADHD, I think, but I always
explain first what's happening.
So I wish I could show the imageright now, but I do have a flow
(09:28):
image.
Maybe we can put it in the notesor something where people could
look at it.
But there's like a little toplayer where the ADHD brain when
left unattended, as I call it.
lives in one of two places.
So we have this little top layerat the very top of the page and
it has things like overwhelm,paralysis, frantic energy,
rushing masking now I've got touse my working memory here.
(09:52):
What else is up there?
Just all of that stuff that weexperience that is very intense.
It's Oh my God, I have so muchto do and I'm so overwhelmed and
how am I going to get it alldone?
So you have that spot.
It could also be internalthough.
We can be in paralysis layingdown for three hours and
scrolling, but it's still thatmental rumination and intensity
and swirling.
And then we can't sprint foreverand then we crash.
(10:13):
So then at the bottom, there's alittle spot where it's low
dopamine, exhaustion.
It's just I can't even careanymore.
Totally checked out and justthat exhausted state, that kind
of burnout.
And then what the ADHD braindoes, it loops around and around
from one to the other.
We ping pong in these extremesand it keeps going because, of
course, then we are exhaustedfor a few days, don't get much
(10:35):
done, finally have some energy,and then we feel like I gotta do
it all right now because what ifI crash again?
But it's like a self fulfillingprophecy.
Of course, if we go in reallyhard and intense, we will crash
again.
It's the high that creates thelow, whereas we're not making
that connection and we're justseeing, oh, I crash or I'm lazy
or I, so the second I feel anymotivation to do anything, I
(10:57):
have to go 125%.
at it.
But then that intensity createsthe crash.
So here we go round and round.
So even understanding that is agreat first step.
And then the second step wouldbe even just identifying
dysregulation in the moment.
Can you tell when you're in thatstate?
Because if you can't, how can wedisrupt it at all?
(11:18):
the physical signs would be, anyphysical signs of anxiety, heart
racing, tense muscles, rushing.
I love that one because it'svery physical.
You can see yourself doing it,right?
Are you running around yourhouse trying to get things done?
Are you walking at a reasonablepace being present with each
task?
Or are you running?
Oh my God, I gotta do this.
Now I gotta do this.
Oh, I gotta take the garbageout.
(11:38):
If we're in that state, we aredysregulated.
And then the mental part of itis rumination overwhelm negative
self talk, masking.
So all of those things.
can also be dysregulation,doesn't always have to be
physical.
all of that is fight or flight.
So that dysregulation, fight,flight, freeze, or fawn.
(12:00):
So like flight, it's like whenwe're running around, fight, we
can have emotionaldysregulation, that comes up and
we're short or snippy or angry.
And then flight or freeze,obviously paralysis and then
fawn, which is that maskingpiece that people pleasing piece
that, Oh my gosh, if I make sureeveryone else is okay and no
(12:20):
one's mad at me, then I'll beall right.
Because when we're in fight orflight, your body doesn't know
if you have lots of emails towrite and you have a long to do
list or if you're getting chasedby a bear.
Of course, if you're functioningin a place where you feel like
you're in danger all the time,which you might not consciously
think you're in danger, but yourbody is functioning in that way.
(12:40):
Of course it's exhausting.
Is so exhausting.
So then you will crash and youwill be exhausted and you will
feel like you're just, runningon this treadmill, trying to
catch up all the time.
Cause then you crash.
It's such a vicious cycle.
So it's a great spot to start tobe like, wow, in the moment can
identify when I'm dysregulated.
And the one thing I hear on likesession two of our groups is Oh,
(13:03):
I'm a lot more dysregulated thanI thought.
All day, every day, I'm just inthis state of heightened
intensity.
And my brain's going a mile aminute, and that's the first
place to start.
It's we have to see it to thenwork on it.
I like taking a step back firstand acknowledging that you need
to acknowledge what's going onfirst before you accept the help
(13:24):
or start doing any kind of workjust based on listening to
videos or doing this or that.
Just acknowledge that you needsomething more than what's
happening right now and startabsorbing.
What's happening.
So I like that that's the wayyou approach it because one
thing I've noticed with people Italked to with ADHD or even just
(13:47):
seeing videos or memes or thingslike that is that people might
know that they have ADHD.
But now they just think it's athing that they have to deal
with or they're working againsttheir brain almost 24 7 what
kind of transformations have youseen with people acknowledging
their dysregulation yeah, that'sa great point.
(14:09):
I do get a lot of comments on myposts about that's just how I
work.
I have to work frantically.
That's the only time I getanything done.
I'm like, yeah, that's theproblem.
I get it.
I so get it.
We attach to this franticdysregulation that feels like
productivity.
So part of the work I also dowith people is detaching this
idea of like frantic intensity,feeling like I'm going to
(14:30):
scream.
That means I'm doing enoughbecause it can be easier, but we
don't allow it to, because thenwe feel lazy.
We feel like this day feltpretty nice.
I must not have accomplishedenough because we all have all
these belief systems too, but sothat being said, yes, we have to
accept or see a glimmer of oh,maybe it can be different.
I think that has to come first.
(14:52):
But I was just talking tosomeone today who is doing their
PhD, their thesis, two years,wrote nothing.
We work together in four months,she's done.
That's how cool it is.
And there's no accountabilitycoaching where it's okay, get
this many pages down.
We didn't even talk about that.
We just talked about how are yougoing to be regulated?
(15:12):
Are you enjoying this process ofwriting?
What is overwhelming for you?
What is stopping you?
What is getting in the way?
And then we work on theoverwhelm.
We work on the regulation.
We work on this whole concept oflife is meant to be enjoyed, not
endured.
just because you're writing yourPhD, your life has to be hell?
No, are you enjoying the day today process of this?
And we do all that work and nowI'm doing my three week study to
(15:34):
defend it because I'm done.
I've handed it in.
Oh, that's so amazing because Idon't know if this is everyone
or with ADHD, but oftentimes Ifind myself just constantly
thinking about what's next.
And especially when I worked inthe corporate world, I was like,
Oh, I will be happy once I dothis or once I do this.
(15:58):
And through a lot of yoga andmindfulness and manifestation
practices.
I've found myself practicing,focusing on the present.
And I say practicing because I'mnot always good at it, but like
literally taking myself out ofthat future and saying, wow,
(16:18):
what is really good in thismoment?
And how can I be present forthat?
Do you do any work with that,too?
Regulation is being present,right?
Regulation, to me, beingregulated, is I am here,
present, in the thing I amcurrently doing, and
everything's fine.
I'm inherently safe,everything's okay, got laundry
to do, that's okay, it doesn'tdistract me from talking to you
(16:39):
on this podcast, because I'mhere.
That's for later.
It's this idea of being able tobe present and not in this
hypervigilant state.
Oh my god, I have this to do,and later I have to do this, and
then I gotta go do that, andthen, oh my gosh, how am I gonna
pick up my kids at four, andblah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
I'm just here.
And that's what a regulatedbrain can do is it can be
present with the task at hand,and enjoy the process instead of
(17:01):
being so hyper focused on okay,what's next, and we're not
enjoying any of it.
And this energy of trying to getanything over with to me is a
huge red flag of dysregulation,I've been doing this for a while
so I'm at the point where I'm atthe dentist and I'm laying down
and I'm like, Nope.
Be present.
Yeah, this rushing to get thingsover with dysregulates us so
bad.
It brings all the anxiety up.
(17:23):
Okay.
Now I'm in this frantic state oftrying to get things over with
and oh my God, you're going tocrash.
So it's like, how can I just bepresent when I'm washing the
dishes?
Just be here.
We're not trying to get over it.
This is part of life.
This is in itself just importantas a moment as you, going on
vacation, it's all to beexperienced and enjoyed as much
as possible.
(17:43):
But that's very differentmessaging, than typical ADHD
work, which is just likeproductivity.
How can we get more done?
Hammer it out.
That's going to close the ADHDbrain down even more.
The brain's like, no thank you!That sounds boring and hard.
Whereas if we start creating alife and say, wow, I'm just
present for each moment.
Oh, I'm waking up, I'm having mycoffee.
Okay, now I'm doing this.
(18:05):
Oh my gosh, the brain's like,okay I'm open to that.
That sounds fine.
I'll go make a coffee.
That sounds fun.
Instead of after I make mycoffee, then I have to do this
and I have to do that.
So I'm just going to lay in bedinstead.
And that's some other feedbackI've had recently is one client
in a group was saying, Oh, I'mhappy to wake up in the morning
because I have a slower morning.
That's not just torturous thewhole day.
(18:26):
I'm not dreading the day.
So I'm more.
able to wake up when my alarmgoes off.
So people will ask me like, howdo I wake up earlier in the
morning?
I'm like, I know you want somesort of like alarm hack, but if
you get regulated and startenjoying your life more, you'll
want to wake up more.
the overwhelm and the stress oflife has us making it hard to
wake up.
Not necessarily like we needmore sleep.
(18:48):
Sometimes we do because ADHDersdo need more sleep than others,
but it's very rooted indysregulation.
It's funny that you say thatbecause when I was a kid and
younger, I would procrastinategetting up and it wasn't as if I
was sleeping.
I would wake up and I'd be like,not yet.
And I would, force myself tojust close my eyes again.
(19:09):
And now I wake up at 5am.
And if I don't.
I don't feel like I have thebest day.
Because getting up at 5 a.
m.
allows me to do it slowly.
Yeah.
And I think a lot of what yousay is culturally significant.
Because we have a hustle culturethat we're living in.
(19:29):
That's one of the reasons why Ileft the corporate world is
because I knew that the morethat I would grow, the more I'd
have to work and put myself outthere.
Or even feel like I needed to.
And so now taking a step back,working on my own business.
I am Working so hard on figuringout how do I have a balance
(19:50):
where I'm working and I'm doingsomething that is purposeful in
my life, but I can also bepresent with my children I feel
like there's a shift happeningand it's not as fast as I would
like it to be happening, but Ido feel like more and more
people are looking to see whatare these life hacks that just
(20:12):
make life more purposeful andworth living the best life out
there where we're thriving andnot just working every day and
having two days off.
my daughter says, I just feellike it's so unfair that we have
to go to school five days a weekand we only get two days off.
And I'm like, girl, preach.
I get it.
Absolutely.
(20:33):
Yes.
But even in that, okay, so sayyou have a nine to five, you
can't afford to not.
If you are regulated,prioritizing enjoyment, slowing
down, I highly recommend peoplelook at their work contract.
What are your hours contractedfor?
Because ADHDers work so manyextra hours feeling like we're
inadequate and we have to makeup for it.
They're not taking lunch breaks,but then your brain's going to
take a break anyway and you'regoing to be scrolling for an
(20:54):
hour and a half.
Where you could have just takenyour lunch hour.
So there's a lot we can do inwhatever your current situation
is.
You don't have to quit your joband become an entrepreneur.
You don't have to do any ofthat.
Cause that can be way worse.
I was a coach for seven yearsprior to this work I'm doing.
And that was while I wasdysregulated and not diagnosed.
I definitely brought that intomy life 24 seven.
So that's not necessarily theanswer.
(21:17):
But if you are a regulatedworker.
you'll be fine.
It's just simply being presentwith each task at hand, not
allowing yourself to be afrantic.
Person that's like a chickenrunning around with their head
cut off.
yes, your coworkers might bethat, but is that helping
anything?
No, I have seen as a regulatedperson in the past couple of
(21:38):
years of business, I have beenmore successful working slowly
and more thoughtfully andmindfully and less honestly than
I ever was when I was runningaround, thinking about work
morning to night, frantic,rushing.
my success was up, down, up,down, six months of nothing, up,
down, up, down.
Now every month is moresuccessful than the last but I'm
slower.
(21:59):
It's so counterintuitive, butthat is how the A DHD brain, we
get off the rails When we'redysregulated, we're not able to
make as thoughtful decisions.
We're not able to prioritize.
'cause when we are in fight orflight, the prefrontal cortex is
turned off.
That's decision making.
That's logical thinking.
That's prioritizing, that'sdiscerning what's good, better,
best.
(22:20):
That's long-term planning.
All of that gets shut off whenwe're and frantic.
Yet we think when we're rushingand frantic, we're more
productive.
No, we're actually just spendinga lot of time on things that
need no attention.
We're just reacting.
Oh, an email popped up.
Let me do that.
Maybe that email is of noimportance.
You need to be doing your otherwork.
But when we're dysregulated, wejust react to what's in front of
(22:41):
us.
There's very littlethoughtfulness.
We're not able to stay on task.
Easily distracted, then weprocrastinate, it's a whole
mess.
Regulation is so cool.
I just love it, because I stillhave ADHD, I still have a
calendar of insanity in detail,because I need that.
There's still supports I need,but the supports I need are so
like, dropping the ocean at thispoint.
(23:04):
It's who cares?
That doesn't hinder me at all.
And then, when we're regulated,that's also when the superpowers
of ADHD come out.
Because I know people talk aboutsuperpowers and people are like
I don't have any, I juststruggle.
It's probably because you'redysregulated, there's no space
for that sparkle that we do haveto get utilized and really show
itself.
(23:24):
Because at this point, I seeADHD as, it's only brought me
good.
especially currently, as aregulated ADHD er, where it
comes out is only positive.
You posted a video the other dayabout actually taking time to go
to the bathroom.
This is so relevant because weoften put off these things where
we take care of our bodies.
(23:44):
Yeah.
But we're do it.
We're like, Oh, let me justfinish this email as you were
talking about.
And the first thing I said whatif I forget?
What if I forget what I wasdoing?
And you're like, but you'regonna say what if you forget?
And if you're regulated, youwon't.
And I'm like, how dare you?
But I loved what you said,because Oftentimes we are so go,
go, go because we know if wedon't do it now, it's not going
(24:07):
to happen.
Or it's not going to happenuntil I remember a month later
and I'm like, shoot now if Idon't do that now, then it's not
going to happen.
But I do find as I'm putting inthe work to be more mindful on a
regular basis, I do get way moredone and not in a way that's
frantic, but in a way that justmakes sense for myself, my
(24:30):
family.
And, oh my gosh, your words areso powerful, and thank you for
saying about the superpower too,because I think my brain is
fascinating.
So things that I can come upwith and I'm still learning to
use my voice in a way where Ican show up authentically,
because the things I think of uphere, I'm just like, oh, If I
(24:52):
could communicate that would beso incredible.
So I'm working through thataspect of things, taking what's
up here and really effectivelyputting it out there so that I
can show up as who I really amand all of these beautiful
thoughts that I have.
So tell us about how do youorganize your day in a way that
makes sense for you?
What helps you?
(25:14):
organize your brain.
I organize through regulation,prioritizing enjoyment and
really, if you have those twothings, your brain knows what to
do.
We're not stupid.
We're so smart.
Like the people I work with, I'mlike, you're all so cool.
So smart.
So interesting.
And there's just thisdysregulation hindering all this
(25:34):
root truth that we have.
That's so great.
As a regulated person, Whenyou're just calm and present and
your prefrontal cortex is turnedon and you're able to think
logically and prioritize andslow down and maybe take five
minutes at the beginning of theday.
Okay, what does my day looklike?
Where are my tasks?
Where might my tasks fit?
Okay, I'm gonna have a realisticexpectation for myself.
(25:57):
I'm not trying to do 10, 000things because I'm not in a
frantic rush.
I know things will eventuallyget done.
That's all my clients say theyhear me in their head like, do,
do, do just doing the thing.
Now I'm doing this.
That's the cadence we want forlife is just like this nice
little slow march through life,consistently chugging along.
Part of that might be a.
Lunch break, part of that mightbe a little lay down.
(26:20):
It's not saying we have to workall the time, but it's just this
gentle rhythm to life that'ssustainable.
Like I can work the way I'mworking for 10 more years.
I don't have dread about that.
Whereas prior in my otherbusiness I was like, I'm hanging
on by a thread.
And there's no way to live.
We're just, it's just passing itby and we're just trying to get
(26:40):
the next thing done so we canget it over with.
And then eventually you look upin 10 years has passed and your
life is passing you by.
And so it's just such importantwork, this kind of bigger
picture stuff and slowing downso that you then can be
organized.
And that's why I like this workis because you just do it and
see what happens.
regulate and I want to see whathappens.
(27:01):
Like it's not, okay, now I gotto be really organized and
thoughtful and we're not whiteknuckling it.
We're changing kind of thefoundation and then seeing what
grows from there.
And that's what I have found.
I have not been meticulous aboutwork.
I have not been Scheming andreally thinking, okay, what's my
next step?
I'm just going with the flow andit's been so successful because
(27:22):
I'm not fighting against mybrain or in a dysregulated state
where I'm not being thoughtful.
It's like slow, steady, do thenext thing that makes sense as
it comes being more present.
And that has created so muchflow.
So it's like more success, butit comes easier.
So whether anyone is a nine tofive is a at home parent,
whatever you work at all day.
(27:45):
If you do it in a regulated way,your entire experience of it is
going to be totally different.
do you have a routine that youfollow regularly that helps you
stay regulated?
no, my work that I teach ismostly like in the moment
regulation.
So when I like, even now I'llnotice while I'm rushing to wash
the dishes.
Oh, okay.
(28:05):
Slow down.
That's the work I teach, is inthe moment, are you identifying
where you're dysregulated anddropping straight into doing
something about it?
This isn't about meditating foran hour, this isn't about yoga,
this isn't about a manufacturedmoment of regulation.
I want us to be able to regulatewhen my kids are screaming.
I want to be able to regulatewhen I'm washing the dishes.
I want to be able to regulatewhen I'm on a call with
(28:26):
somebody.
I don't need to be able toregulate in a nice warm yoga
class where some woman's talkingto me in a soothing voice.
Yeah, I'm going to be able to becalm in that space, but can I be
in my logical mind and in aplace that's regulated and calm
day to day, moment to moment asI do life?
(28:47):
Which is why this works alsogreat because it's no we're not
adding anything to anyone's todo list.
I'm not adding more to yourlife.
There's nothing on there shouldbe nothing like written down in
your calendar that you have todo when I do this work with
people.
It's simply carrying this.
With you, as you do the lifeyou're already living.
I'll still have stuff come up.
I was late for an appointmentand I noticed I was getting a
(29:07):
bit frazzled and I was like,Okay, just cause I'm late, my
stomach being in my throat's notgonna help.
Taking a deep breath, I wasrushing to the car and I stopped
and I walked in a nice pace, gotin the car, put my music on,
enjoyed the 10 minute drive tothe appointment.
It's gonna be a 10 minute drivewhether I'm freaking out or
whether I'm calm.
So I'm just going to chill,enjoy my music, sing along to my
(29:28):
songs, very loudly, have somefun, and I'll get there when I
get there.
And then in the end I was thereon time, which is funny.
I think a lot of times we freakout and it's actually fine.
So that's the work, it's in themoment, living in this way.
And at first it starts in justlittle blips, right?
You might do it a 10 seconds.
Great.
But then those blips grow andgrow and it spreads where soon
(29:49):
the dysregulation really sticksout because you're actually more
regulated than you are.
Disregulated.
I continuously say, Oh my gosh,my inner self talk or
catastrophizing a situation isdoing no one any good,
particularly me, because itcomes with all of these
emotions.
And so instead of thinking aboutthe past and all of these things
(30:10):
I've been told or thinking aboutthe future and how bad things
could happen, just staying righthere with my brain and saying, I
am exactly where I need to be inthis moment.
I'm going to get there safely.
Everything is okay.
I can continue to enjoy life andI don't need to worry about
what's happening on the otherend.
Okay, so tell me though, howdoes one regulate?
(30:32):
when their kids are throwingtemper tantrums.
That's the hardest.
that's the thing that'll triggerme the most and dysregulate me
the most with this current phaseof life.
So it's just being aware of it.
I'm aware that their screamingis not about them screaming,
it's about the feelings that thedysregulation is creating in me
and my reaction is because ofme, it's not because of them.
But even having that awarenessis I might still get impatient,
(30:53):
I might still be snippy, but Ican catch myself and be like,
sorry I just need a minute.
Or I take a deep breath and atleast let them be screaming, but
I'm not also yelling on top ofit.
So it's, that part for me stillwork in progress, but the day to
day, like getting up in themorning, working, taking care of
kids.
Having fun, doing stuff, doinglife, taking care of my house,
(31:16):
that is in the, it's prettysteadily at a do, do, one thing,
now I'm doing the next.
Oh my gosh, I love this.
And so that's what I'm goingfor, but then of course there's
going to be heightened momentswhere I'm still like, oh, I'm
feeling the dysregulation and Ineed grapple with this for a
little bit to come back down.
But in those moments, simpletools like taking a deep breath,
(31:37):
noticing how you're rushing,even that from when I'm talking
fast, when I take a breath andtake a second, my body, the
energy feels different.
It's a bit softer.
My favorite tool is just slowingdown.
So if you're physically rushing,Stop yourself and then continue
at a reasonable pace.
So you're running down thehallway to your meeting.
Stop.
I don't care that 30 seconds toget there is not gonna, it's not
(31:58):
worth that dysregulation.
If we got to really have in ourminds, if you want to do this
work, like someone said, soyou're saying stay regulated at
all costs.
I'm like, essentially like thathas to be the most important
thing.
Cause we're rewiring the brainto function in a whole new way.
So you gotta do it again andagain.
Your brain's going to havereasons.
I'm in a rush.
So I have to rush.
(32:18):
Or I'm late, so I have to gofast or run.
Or there's so much to do.
I have to be frantic.
It's such a crazy week at work.
I'll work on this next week.
You will always find a reasonthat you need to be frantic and
be rushing because that's alsowhat we've tied to this feeling
of productivity is if I'm doingit in a nice, even keeled way,
I'm not working hard enough.
And then it's a whole thing.
(32:40):
So it's lots to rework.
But even if everyone who'slistening to this just started
by when you notice you'rerushing for any reason, stop for
a second and then continue at areasonable pace.
So dishes, it's Oh, I'm justwant to get this over with so I
can go lay down.
I'm just here present with thedishes, washing them.
This is just much a part of lifeis going and laying down is.
So let me just be here.
(33:01):
And that's how we retrain thebrain and body to pretty much
say you're safe.
You can just be here.
There's no bear chasing you.
Everything's fine.
Then you can just be, and thenyou just do.
And then the idea of, wow, I didthe dishes and I did the laundry
and I vacuumed.
You're not exhausted from it.
Cause you haven't exerted athousand percent more energy,
just stressing about it andbeing frantic about it.
(33:22):
You just simply did the tasks.
It's not the tasks that exhaustus.
It's the way we do them.
It is the dysregulation we havearound them that is like so
draining and exhausting andoverwhelming all of that.
when I was working with mytherapist, she did not have
ADHD.
And there was one thing that shesaid to me she said that I was
(33:44):
doing so much.
Maybe I just shouldn't beanymore.
And I was like, I got so annoyedat her, but I was like, we're
done.
How dare you tell me that Ican't do it all.
It soothes that dysregulation togo, go, go.
That's another thing is like howto sit with the dysregulation
(34:05):
and be with discomfort and notuse something external to soothe
it.
It's going to be such alifesaver.
Cause that's why we scroll.
That's why we shop.
That's why we eat.
That's why we distract ourselvesand are running around all
evening when you could beresting, but no, I'm fidgeting
around the house all nightbecause we're unable to sit for
a second because there'sdysregulation and we don't know
how to internally work on it, sothat's what we learn in the work
(34:27):
I do.
How do I calm this downinternally?
Myself, so that I'm not relianton a phone.
So I'm not reliant on spendingmoney to sooth me for two
minutes and then I feel guiltyafter.
Like those things aren'thelping.
It's just masking it for asecond.
But this primal fight or flightpart of us, it's survival mode.
It only cares about you feelingbetter right now.
(34:49):
It just wants to survive.
It does not care that yourfuture self is going to pay for
it.
It honestly doesn't.
It's just trying to get throughthe day.
Similar to someone who, yeah,I'm going to steal because I'm
starving.
I don't really care if I'm goingto go to jail later.
I need food now you don't careabout, you just care about the
now.
Cause you're just trying to notdie.
That's what the dysregulation isthis is so uncomfortable.
(35:10):
I'm feeling unsafe.
I'm feeling, like my life is indanger.
And I get that people are like,I don't feel like that.
Not consciously, but that's whatthe body's, functions are
feeling.
And so yeah, I don't care if Ireally should be doing my work.
I'm going to scroll for twohours because that's making me
feel better.
That's soothing this discomfortor distracting from this
discomfort.
And then two months later yougo, why the hell am I always on
(35:32):
my phone?
I'm so frustrated.
It's not even a choice.
It's compulsive at this point.
This is not a conscious choice.
And so when we're feeling likethe things we're doing is
compulsive, we have no choice.
That's when you knowdysregulation is present because
your subconscious is then doingthings to make you feel better
because you're not consciouslyaware that you're dysregulated
and then working on regulation.
(35:54):
If you consciously work onregulating, the subconscious
doesn't need to go for the phoneand the spending and the food
and the substances.
I'm not saying addiction, butI'm just saying if you're in the
habit of, oh, I, smoke at nightto calm myself down.
is that just dysregulation?
And you're just using somethingexternal to regulate you
temporarily or soothe thatdysregulation when we could
(36:17):
actually do some bigger picturework where you don't need that.
You could choose to do that.
And that could be a consciouschoice of something you enjoy.
But when it feels compulsive,that's when we know, Ooh, nobody
wants that.
I don't want things to feelcompulsive.
I want to feel like I'mchoosing, even if I'm choosing
to scroll, even if I'm choosingto eat a snack, I'm choosing to
spend money.
I want it to be my consciousmind's choice.
(36:38):
Not like shit, why did I dothat?
That's such a bad feeling.
It's first, how dare you call usall out?
And also thank you because somuch of that resonated with me.
And I know so many of mylisteners, aside from being
mindful in that moment, how doyou work on being okay?
(37:03):
with the uncomfortable.
Yeah.
I do think that sometimes itjust takes doing it right.
I'm aware that I'm runningaround and busy because this is
uncomfortable.
Then it might be when you'reready to challenge that.
Yeah.
I'm not saying you have to do itimmediately when you're ready.
Okay.
I don't want to have to, this iscompulsive at this point.
I don't want to have to, I wantto be able to rest.
I don't want to be runningaround constantly all the time,
(37:25):
making myself busy work to avoidthese feelings.
Okay.
So I'm gonna choose to sit for10 minutes and just work on
taking some deep breaths to calmmy body down and show myself
that I won't die.
Honestly, it's like thisdiscomfort will not kill me.
But if I'm running aroundmasking it, how am I ever going
to know that?
(37:46):
So obviously that's a biggerexample, but even, just even
this idea of Oh, my heart'sracing fast and I'm running
around frantically.
Okay, I'm going to choose tostop and it might still be
uncomfortable for a bit, but I'mgoing to, okay, let me continue
this at a slower pace.
And that might be uncomfortable,but it's just showing your brain
and body.
But yeah, being able to settleit down internally and takes a
(38:09):
lot of repetition and a lot ofpractice.
So although it's very simple andsomething that I hope people can
carry with them and not have tobe like, wait, what am I
supposed to do?
It's pretty easy.
It's not complex, but it takes alot of, repetition.
So that person might sit forfive minutes and then they're
back being busy again.
Great.
At least they did a little blip.
They tweaked it a little bit.
They challenged that a littlebit.
(38:30):
So you might be rushing aroundall day, and you didn't rush for
two minutes that day.
Amazing.
That's a great start.
We have to, just have to getthose little drops of
regulation, feel what that'slike, and then you start
remembering what that felt like,and then you start growing, and
then you build this capacity foryourself to live in that way,
and then you start seeing thebenefits of living that way, and
(38:51):
then it starts happening moreand more.
Where soon you just feel like,wow, I feel really regulated.
Obviously I'm going to havethings that happen to
dysregulate me.
But even in those moments, Ihave the tools.
I have the awareness to calm itdown very quickly.
Like at this point, when I'mdysregulated, I can like, like
it smacks me right in the face.
I feel it so strongly and I cancome right back down.
(39:12):
Whereas that used to just be mystate of being.
It didn't feel weird.
Cause it was normal nowregulation and being present and
calm feels more normal.
So when I'm dysregulated, itreally sticks out.
then it's so easy to work on itbecause it's not hiding.
That is huge.
And I appreciate you saying itcould be five minutes, it could
be 10 minutes, it could be twominutes, maybe even 30 seconds,
but sometimes we feel like wehave to be perfect, right?
(39:35):
Okay.
If I'm going to be regulated,then I want to do it perfect.
Then I want to be regulated tothe point, but it's a practice.
It is a one step at a time.
Itsy bitsy teeny weenie step inthe right direction in the
direction those skills.
It's a building skill.
It happens over time withrepetition.
And then part of this workregulating work, regulating our
thinking, right?
Cause all or nothing thinkingblack and white thinking we need
(39:57):
flexible thinking.
So even that is part of it,right?
Of like being flexible with, Oh,I could try implementing this
stuff.
And it might just be like alittle drop in the ocean to
start.
That's okay.
It's not all or nothing.
We want to challenge thatthinking as well because it's
also not balanced.
Absolutely.
I love the way that you talkedabout the belief system too, in
(40:19):
that a lot of the times we mightbe rushing because we believe if
we don't, others may look at usdifferently.
It comes back to the peoplepleasing tendencies and things
like that, I want to know, Howdo you view your ADHD I see that
I see things differently.
I almost feel tons of people arestanding over there looking at
it from that way.
I'm way over here looking at itfrom a totally different way.
(40:40):
Sharing about what I see andpeople are like, Oh my God, my
mind is blown.
I love that.
I can see things, after workingwith people for hundreds of
hours, I've put this alltogether and created these
observations just from talkingto people and making connections
and seeing similarities And thenit comes to me and then I create
visuals and people are like, Ohmy God, I've never understood
what was happening to me.
(41:01):
And now I put it into a graphicthat's like I have a whole
graphic of procrastination isn'treally a thing.
It's actually a cycle ofavoidance.
So I have this graphic thatshows all the steps of this
cycle of avoidance we get stuckin and how that's related to
dysregulation and what we can doto challenge that and get out of
it.
and that's such a superpower.
This isn't like me sittingtrying to really logically
figure it out.
(41:21):
the brain creates theconnections and I see it.
And I think that's so cool.
If you're very dysregulated andstruggling, I totally get that
those might be under the surfaceat the moment.
It's there.
It just maybe hasn't been ableto come out and show itself
because the dysregulation ismasking all that cool stuff.
just knowing I'm dysregulated,just knowing, yeah, I'm in this
(41:43):
cycle of being frantic andrushing and then I crash.
That's all you need to identifywith to work on it.
What do you say to people whosay, I just feel like everyone
has a little bit of ADHD?
I would just go, okay.
I can realize.
But, there's already that sayingout there, it's yeah everyone
pees, but when you're peeing ahundred times a day, there's a
bigger problem, it's yeah,everyone's going to get
distracted.
Everyone's going to be rushing.
(42:03):
Everyone's going to do this.
But, in my eyes, you know whenyou know, like I knew.
I have friends who don't.
Think like they, Oh, I relate tosome of your posts, but I know I
don't have it.
I know myself.
So anyone who, a lot of peoplework with me who are not yet
diagnosed, and I'm sure 99.
9 percent of them will get apositive diagnosis.
If you really think you have it,where you're going, seeking out
(42:24):
an ADHD coach and doing theirprogram, I'm pretty sure you've
got it.
Like you are connecting enoughand struggling enough.
And, Like having a hard enoughtime that you're like, yeah,
this is what's up like peoplewho are like, oh, identify that
one symptom.
That's not you.
it's different.
It's a different thing.
It's like a whole network ofissues that we struggle with.
(42:45):
Oh yeah, I have a hard timefocusing, like that's not in
itself ADHD, or I'll even doposts about a small part of
ADHD, like I have a post aboutlike how showering I find
difficult, or it's draining.
And people are like, thisdoesn't mean you have ADHD.
I'm like, I'm not saying thatone thing.
I'm saying I'm sharing a symptomof mine as someone with
(43:07):
diagnosed ADHD who has a large.
plate of symptoms that show upfor me.
It's not one thing.
So I think just realizing like asymptom does not make a
diagnosis.
Yeah.
It's much more complex thanthat.
Okay.
Thank you for saying that.
I really appreciate it becauseit's been coming up a lot.
This has been amazing.
Thank you so much for your timeand your expertise.
(43:28):
Where can people come find youand work with you when they're
ready to get regulated?
On social media, I'm at ADHDwith Jenna Free.
And I did also want to share, Ido have a free ADHD regulation
guide.
People can grab at ADHD withJenna Free.Com slash ADHD guide.
So that is something wherepeople want to just go I want to
know more of what that's about.
(43:49):
That's a free thing they cangrab.
so good.
Thank you so much.
Thanks for being here today.
Thank you so much.
thanks for hanging with metoday.
If this episode gave yousomething to think about or
reminded you that you're notalone in this mess, I hope you
carry that into the rest of yourday.
Right now, inside the community,we're focused on routines.
Not the perfect ones, but thereal life.
Let's just start somewhere kind.
(44:11):
We're looking at what's working,what still works, and what we
might wanna shift for the yearahead while the community is
closed right now to new members.
If you're craving support thatactually meets your brain where
it is, get on the wait list atorganizing an ADHD
brain.com/community.
Doors will open soon and I'dlove to welcome you in.
You can also grab the dopaminemenu and check out some other
(44:34):
free tools on the ways toconnect page if you're just
starting out.
Zero pressure, just good stuffto help you move forward.
And if you're curious aboutcoaching, the wait list is open
there too.
I'm reworking a few things andmaybe even dreaming up a group
coaching offer.
But we'll see.
As always, you don't have to getit all right.
You just have to start, and theperfect place to start is right
(44:57):
where you are.
Hey, beautiful people.
(00:01):
It's Megs and welcome back toorganizing an A DHD Brain as I
get ready to launch season threethis September, I wanted to
revisit a few episodes thatstill hold so much truth,
whether it's your first timehearing them or they're coming
back to meet you in a new way.
They're worth another.
Listen, this next season is allabout the messy middle, where
(00:23):
your brain still wants to do itall or nothing at all, and
you're learning how to take onesmall step.
Anyway, I've been in it too,letting go rebuilding, figuring
out exactly what works for mybrain, and you don't have to do
it like I did, but you can do itwith awkward steps, with
emotion, and with way more gracethan you're probably giving
(00:43):
yourself.
So let this episode be areminder.
You don't have to be fullyunburied to move forward.
You're allowed to want more joyand you're absolutely capable of
creating change right where youare.
Let's jump in.
Megs (00:56):
I am here with Jenna.
I am so excited.
She is an ADHD therapist andcoach, and I found her on
Instagram because her incrediblevideos resonated with me so
much.
so Jenna, tell us a little bitabout you.
Tell us about the work you do.
Yes.
Hello.
I am someone who was diagnosedwith ADHD in adulthood.
(01:18):
I think as many people are thesedays.
And when that happened, I went,Oh, okay.
Yes.
It's all making sense now.
So it was a long journey to gethere through life.
I used to actually be a coachfor intuitive eating and
disordered eating, which I nowknow is so intertwined with
ADHD.
And the way we think and howthings can play out.
(01:39):
So I actually coached aroundthat for seven years and
repaired my own relationshipwith restriction and binge
eating and disordered eating.
And so that was a beautifulhealing process.
And then when I got diagnosedwith ADHD, why I see ADHD
differently and why I teach in akind of a little bit of a
different way, that's usuallythe comment I get is no one's
(01:59):
talking about it in this way isbecause I see the parallels of
disordered eating and ourrelationship with food is how
the same thing with our brain.
Like for instance, oh yeah, ifyou restrict you're going to
binge.
If you're in a frantic, intensestate, you're going to crash.
Like it's just, humans are verypredictable.
So we're, our brains are alwayson these, we're functioning from
(02:21):
these cycles.
So if we go too far one way,we're going to have an opposite
reaction the other way.
And so I've seen both witheating, like intuitive eating is
very allow all foods, findbalance.
Yes, you want to eat well, butyou.
Also need to allow some dessertor else you're going to binge.
And so it's the same withfunctioning with ADHD is we
can't get too ramped up or elsewe're going to crash.
(02:42):
So how do we find that balanceand flow and way of living in
this sustainable and enjoyableway?
And I think where sometimeswe've gotten tripped up or the
mainstream messaging around ADHDisn't quite there yet.
Cause I, I find the overall, noteverybody, of course, but the
overall energy is like workharder, do these hacks, use
(03:03):
these timers.
Okay.
Set a timer and then work reallyhard for 15 minutes and then see
how much you can get done andgamify it.
And it's a very I'd say it wasvery like masculine, like
intense energy around ADHD andhow to cope with it, where my
history has made me see that'slike actually taking our foot
off the gas pedal, slowing downa little bit, regulating.
That's a lot of the work I do.
(03:25):
Working on our flexible thinkingand this gentleness actually
then lets the brain open up tobe more productive, but we're
losing that message andeveryone's trying so hard and
it's just making it even harder.
one video that I watched.
you talked about giving upsocial media and how annoyed you
(03:46):
were at what a difference it wasmaking in your life.
it resonated with me so muchbecause that is such a thing
that I struggle with.
And at the same time.
I also know how incredible itcan be.
Your words are beautiful.
And the work that you're doingis really incredible.
(04:06):
Can you tell us a little bitabout your journey on when you
were diagnosed, what that waslike and.
How you got to the space thatyou're in now?
Sure.
So it's after I had kids, when Ireally felt my, it was more and
more obvious okay yeah,something's different.
Something is up here, somethingis the word I had at the time
something's wrong.
(04:27):
And as I researched, I'm like, Ithink it's ADHD, which seemed
weird to me because I am a, highachieving, outwardly appearing,
successful person.
And that's not the messaging wehear about ADHD.
I was always a calm, girl, onlychild goody.
What are you talking about?
How could I have ADHD?
I wasn't running around.
I was never disruptive.
I was always doing well inschool.
(04:48):
But now that I see how Iactually did a lot of like
strategies.
And coping subconsciously to doall of that.
But after I had kids, that'swhen it really got to the point
of okay this is different.
I'm functioning differently thanother people function.
Why is this happening?
So for about two years, I waslike, to my parents specifically
I think I have ADHD.
(05:08):
And, of course, they don't knowwhat that is.
Looks like especially in women,they're like, no, you're crazy.
No, you don't, you do so well inlife.
But then eventually I wasactually in grad school to
become a therapist.
And as a parent of two at thatpoint, I was like, okay, I am
not doing well.
I am struggling hard.
So I really want to go get anassessment.
(05:30):
So it was very privileged.
My parents helped me pay for itbecause it was a very expensive.
Now I know some more affordableoptions, but and I got the, yes,
you have ADHD and it was justlike, thank God it wasn't that I
know it's something is going on.
So that was really great.
It was just a nice thing toknow.
Okay.
I am not.
(05:50):
just individually weird.
There's a reason for it.
It's not a personal failing.
I'm not just quirky.
Like I think in a different way.
And I always knew that, but nowI just enjoyed having a solid
thing to point that tounderstand why.
And then as I was in grad schoolto become a therapist, I of
course was like ADHD is veryrelevant to me.
(06:13):
So I want to learn and researchand take courses and do as much
as possible so I can work withpeople with ADHD, because I'm a
big fan of working with someonewho experiences what you're
going through.
Similar to when I was workingwith disordered eating, I had
that connection with my clientsof.
I've been there and I know, sothen I started researching and I
(06:33):
also saw that nobody knows whatto do with us.
Every course I took was liketimers, calendars, this is all
you have to teach me to helppeople, but okay.
So then I started working withpeople and then after, hundreds
of hours of working with ADHDersone on one, I started making the
connection of how this cycle ofbeing dysregulated in this
frantic state and crashing isthe core of our struggle.
(06:56):
That if we're not dealing withthat timers, calendars, little
doodads we're not going to breakthrough enough to make a
lifelong difference.
Those tools can be very valuableand useful.
But it can't be everything.
And so then that's how Ideveloped the framework I use
now, which I don't know reallyhas a name.
(07:18):
I call it ADHD flow, but it'sreally focusing on regulation
and balancing everything.
Our thinking, our schedules, ournervous systems.
And finding the sustainable andenjoyable way to live.
It's just like a way that youcan live forever instead of
feeling like you're alwayshanging by a thread or white
knuckling it or always trying toplay catch up.
we can't do that forever.
(07:39):
It's too tiring.
Oh my gosh.
Absolutely.
How old are your kids, by theway?
Four and five boys.
They are absolute terrors in thebest of ways.
That's awesome.
Mine are five and seven and Ihave two girls.
So I feel like that's adifferent vibe.
It's totally different.
I don't know that I would knowwhat to do with boys, but
(08:02):
likewise, right?
Yeah, exactly.
it was interesting because Inever understood the correlation
between eating disorders andADHD until more recently.
And I've struggled with food myentire life.
And it wasn't until, I think itwas two years ago now, I have to
do, math in my head.
(08:22):
But I had bariatric surgery andI lost 120 pounds.
And I thought that was going tofix everything.
I just thought, I'm like, okay,once I lose weight, Everything
will be fine, except that therewas so much work and I was
meeting with a therapist, butthere was so much work that I
still hadn't done up here that Ihad to work through.
(08:45):
And I'm still working through tothis day.
So coming back to the selfregulation, what's one of the
first pieces of advice?
You give to people with ADHD towork on their self regulation?
So curious.
Yes.
I typically work in groups now.
So I mostly work in groups ofseven people.
(09:08):
So it's more of a, Teaching kindof the concepts, but then, of
course, I ask everybody, howdoes this relate to you?
Do you connect with this?
How do you see this play out inyour own life?
I've never had someone say I donot relate to this.
So it's inherent.
it's part of all of us withADHD, I think, but I always
explain first what's happening.
So I wish I could show the imageright now, but I do have a flow
(09:28):
image.
Maybe we can put it in the notesor something where people could
look at it.
But there's like a little toplayer where the ADHD brain when
left unattended, as I call it.
lives in one of two places.
So we have this little top layerat the very top of the page and
it has things like overwhelm,paralysis, frantic energy,
rushing masking now I've got touse my working memory here.
(09:52):
What else is up there?
Just all of that stuff that weexperience that is very intense.
It's Oh my God, I have so muchto do and I'm so overwhelmed and
how am I going to get it alldone?
So you have that spot.
It could also be internalthough.
We can be in paralysis layingdown for three hours and
scrolling, but it's still thatmental rumination and intensity
and swirling.
And then we can't sprint foreverand then we crash.
(10:13):
So then at the bottom, there's alittle spot where it's low
dopamine, exhaustion.
It's just I can't even careanymore.
Totally checked out and justthat exhausted state, that kind
of burnout.
And then what the ADHD braindoes, it loops around and around
from one to the other.
We ping pong in these extremesand it keeps going because, of
course, then we are exhaustedfor a few days, don't get much
(10:35):
done, finally have some energy,and then we feel like I gotta do
it all right now because what ifI crash again?
But it's like a self fulfillingprophecy.
Of course, if we go in reallyhard and intense, we will crash
again.
It's the high that creates thelow, whereas we're not making
that connection and we're justseeing, oh, I crash or I'm lazy
or I, so the second I feel anymotivation to do anything, I
(10:57):
have to go 125%.
at it.
But then that intensity createsthe crash.
So here we go round and round.
So even understanding that is agreat first step.
And then the second step wouldbe even just identifying
dysregulation in the moment.
Can you tell when you're in thatstate?
Because if you can't, how can wedisrupt it at all?
(11:18):
the physical signs would be, anyphysical signs of anxiety, heart
racing, tense muscles, rushing.
I love that one because it'svery physical.
You can see yourself doing it,right?
Are you running around yourhouse trying to get things done?
Are you walking at a reasonablepace being present with each
task?
Or are you running?
Oh my God, I gotta do this.
Now I gotta do this.
Oh, I gotta take the garbageout.
(11:38):
If we're in that state, we aredysregulated.
And then the mental part of itis rumination overwhelm negative
self talk, masking.
So all of those things.
can also be dysregulation,doesn't always have to be
physical.
all of that is fight or flight.
So that dysregulation, fight,flight, freeze, or fawn.
(12:00):
So like flight, it's like whenwe're running around, fight, we
can have emotionaldysregulation, that comes up and
we're short or snippy or angry.
And then flight or freeze,obviously paralysis and then
fawn, which is that maskingpiece that people pleasing piece
that, Oh my gosh, if I make sureeveryone else is okay and no
(12:20):
one's mad at me, then I'll beall right.
Because when we're in fight orflight, your body doesn't know
if you have lots of emails towrite and you have a long to do
list or if you're getting chasedby a bear.
Of course, if you're functioningin a place where you feel like
you're in danger all the time,which you might not consciously
think you're in danger, but yourbody is functioning in that way.
(12:40):
Of course it's exhausting.
Is so exhausting.
So then you will crash and youwill be exhausted and you will
feel like you're just, runningon this treadmill, trying to
catch up all the time.
Cause then you crash.
It's such a vicious cycle.
So it's a great spot to start tobe like, wow, in the moment can
identify when I'm dysregulated.
And the one thing I hear on likesession two of our groups is Oh,
(13:03):
I'm a lot more dysregulated thanI thought.
All day, every day, I'm just inthis state of heightened
intensity.
And my brain's going a mile aminute, and that's the first
place to start.
It's we have to see it to thenwork on it.
I like taking a step back firstand acknowledging that you need
to acknowledge what's going onfirst before you accept the help
(13:24):
or start doing any kind of workjust based on listening to
videos or doing this or that.
Just acknowledge that you needsomething more than what's
happening right now and startabsorbing.
What's happening.
So I like that that's the wayyou approach it because one
thing I've noticed with people Italked to with ADHD or even just
(13:47):
seeing videos or memes or thingslike that is that people might
know that they have ADHD.
But now they just think it's athing that they have to deal
with or they're working againsttheir brain almost 24 7 what
kind of transformations have youseen with people acknowledging
their dysregulation yeah, that'sa great point.
(14:09):
I do get a lot of comments on myposts about that's just how I
work.
I have to work frantically.
That's the only time I getanything done.
I'm like, yeah, that's theproblem.
I get it.
I so get it.
We attach to this franticdysregulation that feels like
productivity.
So part of the work I also dowith people is detaching this
idea of like frantic intensity,feeling like I'm going to
(14:30):
scream.
That means I'm doing enoughbecause it can be easier, but we
don't allow it to, because thenwe feel lazy.
We feel like this day feltpretty nice.
I must not have accomplishedenough because we all have all
these belief systems too, but sothat being said, yes, we have to
accept or see a glimmer of oh,maybe it can be different.
I think that has to come first.
(14:52):
But I was just talking tosomeone today who is doing their
PhD, their thesis, two years,wrote nothing.
We work together in four months,she's done.
That's how cool it is.
And there's no accountabilitycoaching where it's okay, get
this many pages down.
We didn't even talk about that.
We just talked about how are yougoing to be regulated?
(15:12):
Are you enjoying this process ofwriting?
What is overwhelming for you?
What is stopping you?
What is getting in the way?
And then we work on theoverwhelm.
We work on the regulation.
We work on this whole concept oflife is meant to be enjoyed, not
endured.
just because you're writing yourPhD, your life has to be hell?
No, are you enjoying the day today process of this?
And we do all that work and nowI'm doing my three week study to
(15:34):
defend it because I'm done.
I've handed it in.
Oh, that's so amazing because Idon't know if this is everyone
or with ADHD, but oftentimes Ifind myself just constantly
thinking about what's next.
And especially when I worked inthe corporate world, I was like,
Oh, I will be happy once I dothis or once I do this.
(15:58):
And through a lot of yoga andmindfulness and manifestation
practices.
I've found myself practicing,focusing on the present.
And I say practicing because I'mnot always good at it, but like
literally taking myself out ofthat future and saying, wow,
(16:18):
what is really good in thismoment?
And how can I be present forthat?
Do you do any work with that,too?
Regulation is being present,right?
Regulation, to me, beingregulated, is I am here,
present, in the thing I amcurrently doing, and
everything's fine.
I'm inherently safe,everything's okay, got laundry
to do, that's okay, it doesn'tdistract me from talking to you
(16:39):
on this podcast, because I'mhere.
That's for later.
It's this idea of being able tobe present and not in this
hypervigilant state.
Oh my god, I have this to do,and later I have to do this, and
then I gotta go do that, andthen, oh my gosh, how am I gonna
pick up my kids at four, andblah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
I'm just here.
And that's what a regulatedbrain can do is it can be
present with the task at hand,and enjoy the process instead of
(17:01):
being so hyper focused on okay,what's next, and we're not
enjoying any of it.
And this energy of trying to getanything over with to me is a
huge red flag of dysregulation,I've been doing this for a while
so I'm at the point where I'm atthe dentist and I'm laying down
and I'm like, Nope.
Be present.
Yeah, this rushing to get thingsover with dysregulates us so
bad.
It brings all the anxiety up.
(17:23):
Okay.
Now I'm in this frantic state oftrying to get things over with
and oh my God, you're going tocrash.
So it's like, how can I just bepresent when I'm washing the
dishes?
Just be here.
We're not trying to get over it.
This is part of life.
This is in itself just importantas a moment as you, going on
vacation, it's all to beexperienced and enjoyed as much
as possible.
(17:43):
But that's very differentmessaging, than typical ADHD
work, which is just likeproductivity.
How can we get more done?
Hammer it out.
That's going to close the ADHDbrain down even more.
The brain's like, no thank you!That sounds boring and hard.
Whereas if we start creating alife and say, wow, I'm just
present for each moment.
Oh, I'm waking up, I'm having mycoffee.
Okay, now I'm doing this.
(18:05):
Oh my gosh, the brain's like,okay I'm open to that.
That sounds fine.
I'll go make a coffee.
That sounds fun.
Instead of after I make mycoffee, then I have to do this
and I have to do that.
So I'm just going to lay in bedinstead.
And that's some other feedbackI've had recently is one client
in a group was saying, Oh, I'mhappy to wake up in the morning
because I have a slower morning.
That's not just torturous thewhole day.
(18:26):
I'm not dreading the day.
So I'm more.
able to wake up when my alarmgoes off.
So people will ask me like, howdo I wake up earlier in the
morning?
I'm like, I know you want somesort of like alarm hack, but if
you get regulated and startenjoying your life more, you'll
want to wake up more.
the overwhelm and the stress oflife has us making it hard to
wake up.
Not necessarily like we needmore sleep.
(18:48):
Sometimes we do because ADHDersdo need more sleep than others,
but it's very rooted indysregulation.
It's funny that you say thatbecause when I was a kid and
younger, I would procrastinategetting up and it wasn't as if I
was sleeping.
I would wake up and I'd be like,not yet.
And I would, force myself tojust close my eyes again.
(19:09):
And now I wake up at 5am.
And if I don't.
I don't feel like I have thebest day.
Because getting up at 5 a.
m.
allows me to do it slowly.
Yeah.
And I think a lot of what yousay is culturally significant.
Because we have a hustle culturethat we're living in.
(19:29):
That's one of the reasons why Ileft the corporate world is
because I knew that the morethat I would grow, the more I'd
have to work and put myself outthere.
Or even feel like I needed to.
And so now taking a step back,working on my own business.
I am Working so hard on figuringout how do I have a balance
(19:50):
where I'm working and I'm doingsomething that is purposeful in
my life, but I can also bepresent with my children I feel
like there's a shift happeningand it's not as fast as I would
like it to be happening, but Ido feel like more and more
people are looking to see whatare these life hacks that just
(20:12):
make life more purposeful andworth living the best life out
there where we're thriving andnot just working every day and
having two days off.
my daughter says, I just feellike it's so unfair that we have
to go to school five days a weekand we only get two days off.
And I'm like, girl, preach.
I get it.
Absolutely.
(20:33):
Yes.
But even in that, okay, so sayyou have a nine to five, you
can't afford to not.
If you are regulated,prioritizing enjoyment, slowing
down, I highly recommend peoplelook at their work contract.
What are your hours contractedfor?
Because ADHDers work so manyextra hours feeling like we're
inadequate and we have to makeup for it.
They're not taking lunch breaks,but then your brain's going to
take a break anyway and you'regoing to be scrolling for an
(20:54):
hour and a half.
Where you could have just takenyour lunch hour.
So there's a lot we can do inwhatever your current situation
is.
You don't have to quit your joband become an entrepreneur.
You don't have to do any ofthat.
Cause that can be way worse.
I was a coach for seven yearsprior to this work I'm doing.
And that was while I wasdysregulated and not diagnosed.
I definitely brought that intomy life 24 seven.
So that's not necessarily theanswer.
(21:17):
But if you are a regulatedworker.
you'll be fine.
It's just simply being presentwith each task at hand, not
allowing yourself to be afrantic.
Person that's like a chickenrunning around with their head
cut off.
yes, your coworkers might bethat, but is that helping
anything?
No, I have seen as a regulatedperson in the past couple of
(21:38):
years of business, I have beenmore successful working slowly
and more thoughtfully andmindfully and less honestly than
I ever was when I was runningaround, thinking about work
morning to night, frantic,rushing.
my success was up, down, up,down, six months of nothing, up,
down, up, down.
Now every month is moresuccessful than the last but I'm
slower.
(21:59):
It's so counterintuitive, butthat is how the A DHD brain, we
get off the rails When we'redysregulated, we're not able to
make as thoughtful decisions.
We're not able to prioritize.
'cause when we are in fight orflight, the prefrontal cortex is
turned off.
That's decision making.
That's logical thinking.
That's prioritizing, that'sdiscerning what's good, better,
best.
(22:20):
That's long-term planning.
All of that gets shut off whenwe're and frantic.
Yet we think when we're rushingand frantic, we're more
productive.
No, we're actually just spendinga lot of time on things that
need no attention.
We're just reacting.
Oh, an email popped up.
Let me do that.
Maybe that email is of noimportance.
You need to be doing your otherwork.
But when we're dysregulated, wejust react to what's in front of
(22:41):
us.
There's very littlethoughtfulness.
We're not able to stay on task.
Easily distracted, then weprocrastinate, it's a whole
mess.
Regulation is so cool.
I just love it, because I stillhave ADHD, I still have a
calendar of insanity in detail,because I need that.
There's still supports I need,but the supports I need are so
like, dropping the ocean at thispoint.
(23:04):
It's who cares?
That doesn't hinder me at all.
And then, when we're regulated,that's also when the superpowers
of ADHD come out.
Because I know people talk aboutsuperpowers and people are like
I don't have any, I juststruggle.
It's probably because you'redysregulated, there's no space
for that sparkle that we do haveto get utilized and really show
itself.
(23:24):
Because at this point, I seeADHD as, it's only brought me
good.
especially currently, as aregulated ADHD er, where it
comes out is only positive.
You posted a video the other dayabout actually taking time to go
to the bathroom.
This is so relevant because weoften put off these things where
we take care of our bodies.
(23:44):
Yeah.
But we're do it.
We're like, Oh, let me justfinish this email as you were
talking about.
And the first thing I said whatif I forget?
What if I forget what I wasdoing?
And you're like, but you'regonna say what if you forget?
And if you're regulated, youwon't.
And I'm like, how dare you?
But I loved what you said,because Oftentimes we are so go,
go, go because we know if wedon't do it now, it's not going
(24:07):
to happen.
Or it's not going to happenuntil I remember a month later
and I'm like, shoot now if Idon't do that now, then it's not
going to happen.
But I do find as I'm putting inthe work to be more mindful on a
regular basis, I do get way moredone and not in a way that's
frantic, but in a way that justmakes sense for myself, my
(24:30):
family.
And, oh my gosh, your words areso powerful, and thank you for
saying about the superpower too,because I think my brain is
fascinating.
So things that I can come upwith and I'm still learning to
use my voice in a way where Ican show up authentically,
because the things I think of uphere, I'm just like, oh, If I
(24:52):
could communicate that would beso incredible.
So I'm working through thataspect of things, taking what's
up here and really effectivelyputting it out there so that I
can show up as who I really amand all of these beautiful
thoughts that I have.
So tell us about how do youorganize your day in a way that
makes sense for you?
What helps you?
(25:14):
organize your brain.
I organize through regulation,prioritizing enjoyment and
really, if you have those twothings, your brain knows what to
do.
We're not stupid.
We're so smart.
Like the people I work with, I'mlike, you're all so cool.
So smart.
So interesting.
And there's just thisdysregulation hindering all this
(25:34):
root truth that we have.
That's so great.
As a regulated person, Whenyou're just calm and present and
your prefrontal cortex is turnedon and you're able to think
logically and prioritize andslow down and maybe take five
minutes at the beginning of theday.
Okay, what does my day looklike?
Where are my tasks?
Where might my tasks fit?
Okay, I'm gonna have a realisticexpectation for myself.
(25:57):
I'm not trying to do 10, 000things because I'm not in a
frantic rush.
I know things will eventuallyget done.
That's all my clients say theyhear me in their head like, do,
do, do just doing the thing.
Now I'm doing this.
That's the cadence we want forlife is just like this nice
little slow march through life,consistently chugging along.
Part of that might be a.
Lunch break, part of that mightbe a little lay down.
(26:20):
It's not saying we have to workall the time, but it's just this
gentle rhythm to life that'ssustainable.
Like I can work the way I'mworking for 10 more years.
I don't have dread about that.
Whereas prior in my otherbusiness I was like, I'm hanging
on by a thread.
And there's no way to live.
We're just, it's just passing itby and we're just trying to get
(26:40):
the next thing done so we canget it over with.
And then eventually you look upin 10 years has passed and your
life is passing you by.
And so it's just such importantwork, this kind of bigger
picture stuff and slowing downso that you then can be
organized.
And that's why I like this workis because you just do it and
see what happens.
regulate and I want to see whathappens.
(27:01):
Like it's not, okay, now I gotto be really organized and
thoughtful and we're not whiteknuckling it.
We're changing kind of thefoundation and then seeing what
grows from there.
And that's what I have found.
I have not been meticulous aboutwork.
I have not been Scheming andreally thinking, okay, what's my
next step?
I'm just going with the flow andit's been so successful because
(27:22):
I'm not fighting against mybrain or in a dysregulated state
where I'm not being thoughtful.
It's like slow, steady, do thenext thing that makes sense as
it comes being more present.
And that has created so muchflow.
So it's like more success, butit comes easier.
So whether anyone is a nine tofive is a at home parent,
whatever you work at all day.
(27:45):
If you do it in a regulated way,your entire experience of it is
going to be totally different.
do you have a routine that youfollow regularly that helps you
stay regulated?
no, my work that I teach ismostly like in the moment
regulation.
So when I like, even now I'llnotice while I'm rushing to wash
the dishes.
Oh, okay.
(28:05):
Slow down.
That's the work I teach, is inthe moment, are you identifying
where you're dysregulated anddropping straight into doing
something about it?
This isn't about meditating foran hour, this isn't about yoga,
this isn't about a manufacturedmoment of regulation.
I want us to be able to regulatewhen my kids are screaming.
I want to be able to regulatewhen I'm washing the dishes.
I want to be able to regulatewhen I'm on a call with
(28:26):
somebody.
I don't need to be able toregulate in a nice warm yoga
class where some woman's talkingto me in a soothing voice.
Yeah, I'm going to be able to becalm in that space, but can I be
in my logical mind and in aplace that's regulated and calm
day to day, moment to moment asI do life?
(28:47):
Which is why this works alsogreat because it's no we're not
adding anything to anyone's todo list.
I'm not adding more to yourlife.
There's nothing on there shouldbe nothing like written down in
your calendar that you have todo when I do this work with
people.
It's simply carrying this.
With you, as you do the lifeyou're already living.
I'll still have stuff come up.
I was late for an appointmentand I noticed I was getting a
(29:07):
bit frazzled and I was like,Okay, just cause I'm late, my
stomach being in my throat's notgonna help.
Taking a deep breath, I wasrushing to the car and I stopped
and I walked in a nice pace, gotin the car, put my music on,
enjoyed the 10 minute drive tothe appointment.
It's gonna be a 10 minute drivewhether I'm freaking out or
whether I'm calm.
So I'm just going to chill,enjoy my music, sing along to my
(29:28):
songs, very loudly, have somefun, and I'll get there when I
get there.
And then in the end I was thereon time, which is funny.
I think a lot of times we freakout and it's actually fine.
So that's the work, it's in themoment, living in this way.
And at first it starts in justlittle blips, right?
You might do it a 10 seconds.
Great.
But then those blips grow andgrow and it spreads where soon
(29:49):
the dysregulation really sticksout because you're actually more
regulated than you are.
Disregulated.
I continuously say, Oh my gosh,my inner self talk or
catastrophizing a situation isdoing no one any good,
particularly me, because itcomes with all of these
emotions.
And so instead of thinking aboutthe past and all of these things
(30:10):
I've been told or thinking aboutthe future and how bad things
could happen, just staying righthere with my brain and saying, I
am exactly where I need to be inthis moment.
I'm going to get there safely.
Everything is okay.
I can continue to enjoy life andI don't need to worry about
what's happening on the otherend.
Okay, so tell me though, howdoes one regulate?
(30:32):
when their kids are throwingtemper tantrums.
That's the hardest.
that's the thing that'll triggerme the most and dysregulate me
the most with this current phaseof life.
So it's just being aware of it.
I'm aware that their screamingis not about them screaming,
it's about the feelings that thedysregulation is creating in me
and my reaction is because ofme, it's not because of them.
But even having that awarenessis I might still get impatient,
(30:53):
I might still be snippy, but Ican catch myself and be like,
sorry I just need a minute.
Or I take a deep breath and atleast let them be screaming, but
I'm not also yelling on top ofit.
So it's, that part for me stillwork in progress, but the day to
day, like getting up in themorning, working, taking care of
kids.
Having fun, doing stuff, doinglife, taking care of my house,
(31:16):
that is in the, it's prettysteadily at a do, do, one thing,
now I'm doing the next.
Oh my gosh, I love this.
And so that's what I'm goingfor, but then of course there's
going to be heightened momentswhere I'm still like, oh, I'm
feeling the dysregulation and Ineed grapple with this for a
little bit to come back down.
But in those moments, simpletools like taking a deep breath,
(31:37):
noticing how you're rushing,even that from when I'm talking
fast, when I take a breath andtake a second, my body, the
energy feels different.
It's a bit softer.
My favorite tool is just slowingdown.
So if you're physically rushing,Stop yourself and then continue
at a reasonable pace.
So you're running down thehallway to your meeting.
Stop.
I don't care that 30 seconds toget there is not gonna, it's not
(31:58):
worth that dysregulation.
If we got to really have in ourminds, if you want to do this
work, like someone said, soyou're saying stay regulated at
all costs.
I'm like, essentially like thathas to be the most important
thing.
Cause we're rewiring the brainto function in a whole new way.
So you gotta do it again andagain.
Your brain's going to havereasons.
I'm in a rush.
So I have to rush.
(32:18):
Or I'm late, so I have to gofast or run.
Or there's so much to do.
I have to be frantic.
It's such a crazy week at work.
I'll work on this next week.
You will always find a reasonthat you need to be frantic and
be rushing because that's alsowhat we've tied to this feeling
of productivity is if I'm doingit in a nice, even keeled way,
I'm not working hard enough.
And then it's a whole thing.
(32:40):
So it's lots to rework.
But even if everyone who'slistening to this just started
by when you notice you'rerushing for any reason, stop for
a second and then continue at areasonable pace.
So dishes, it's Oh, I'm justwant to get this over with so I
can go lay down.
I'm just here present with thedishes, washing them.
This is just much a part of lifeis going and laying down is.
So let me just be here.
(33:01):
And that's how we retrain thebrain and body to pretty much
say you're safe.
You can just be here.
There's no bear chasing you.
Everything's fine.
Then you can just be, and thenyou just do.
And then the idea of, wow, I didthe dishes and I did the laundry
and I vacuumed.
You're not exhausted from it.
Cause you haven't exerted athousand percent more energy,
just stressing about it andbeing frantic about it.
(33:22):
You just simply did the tasks.
It's not the tasks that exhaustus.
It's the way we do them.
It is the dysregulation we havearound them that is like so
draining and exhausting andoverwhelming all of that.
when I was working with mytherapist, she did not have
ADHD.
And there was one thing that shesaid to me she said that I was
(33:44):
doing so much.
Maybe I just shouldn't beanymore.
And I was like, I got so annoyedat her, but I was like, we're
done.
How dare you tell me that Ican't do it all.
It soothes that dysregulation togo, go, go.
That's another thing is like howto sit with the dysregulation
(34:05):
and be with discomfort and notuse something external to soothe
it.
It's going to be such alifesaver.
Cause that's why we scroll.
That's why we shop.
That's why we eat.
That's why we distract ourselvesand are running around all
evening when you could beresting, but no, I'm fidgeting
around the house all nightbecause we're unable to sit for
a second because there'sdysregulation and we don't know
how to internally work on it, sothat's what we learn in the work
(34:27):
I do.
How do I calm this downinternally?
Myself, so that I'm not relianton a phone.
So I'm not reliant on spendingmoney to sooth me for two
minutes and then I feel guiltyafter.
Like those things aren'thelping.
It's just masking it for asecond.
But this primal fight or flightpart of us, it's survival mode.
It only cares about you feelingbetter right now.
(34:49):
It just wants to survive.
It does not care that yourfuture self is going to pay for
it.
It honestly doesn't.
It's just trying to get throughthe day.
Similar to someone who, yeah,I'm going to steal because I'm
starving.
I don't really care if I'm goingto go to jail later.
I need food now you don't careabout, you just care about the
now.
Cause you're just trying to notdie.
That's what the dysregulation isthis is so uncomfortable.
(35:10):
I'm feeling unsafe.
I'm feeling, like my life is indanger.
And I get that people are like,I don't feel like that.
Not consciously, but that's whatthe body's, functions are
feeling.
And so yeah, I don't care if Ireally should be doing my work.
I'm going to scroll for twohours because that's making me
feel better.
That's soothing this discomfortor distracting from this
discomfort.
And then two months later yougo, why the hell am I always on
(35:32):
my phone?
I'm so frustrated.
It's not even a choice.
It's compulsive at this point.
This is not a conscious choice.
And so when we're feeling likethe things we're doing is
compulsive, we have no choice.
That's when you knowdysregulation is present because
your subconscious is then doingthings to make you feel better
because you're not consciouslyaware that you're dysregulated
and then working on regulation.
(35:54):
If you consciously work onregulating, the subconscious
doesn't need to go for the phoneand the spending and the food
and the substances.
I'm not saying addiction, butI'm just saying if you're in the
habit of, oh, I, smoke at nightto calm myself down.
is that just dysregulation?
And you're just using somethingexternal to regulate you
temporarily or soothe thatdysregulation when we could
(36:17):
actually do some bigger picturework where you don't need that.
You could choose to do that.
And that could be a consciouschoice of something you enjoy.
But when it feels compulsive,that's when we know, Ooh, nobody
wants that.
I don't want things to feelcompulsive.
I want to feel like I'mchoosing, even if I'm choosing
to scroll, even if I'm choosingto eat a snack, I'm choosing to
spend money.
I want it to be my consciousmind's choice.
(36:38):
Not like shit, why did I dothat?
That's such a bad feeling.
It's first, how dare you call usall out?
And also thank you because somuch of that resonated with me.
And I know so many of mylisteners, aside from being
mindful in that moment, how doyou work on being okay?
(37:03):
with the uncomfortable.
Yeah.
I do think that sometimes itjust takes doing it right.
I'm aware that I'm runningaround and busy because this is
uncomfortable.
Then it might be when you'reready to challenge that.
Yeah.
I'm not saying you have to do itimmediately when you're ready.
Okay.
I don't want to have to, this iscompulsive at this point.
I don't want to have to, I wantto be able to rest.
I don't want to be runningaround constantly all the time,
(37:25):
making myself busy work to avoidthese feelings.
Okay.
So I'm gonna choose to sit for10 minutes and just work on
taking some deep breaths to calmmy body down and show myself
that I won't die.
Honestly, it's like thisdiscomfort will not kill me.
But if I'm running aroundmasking it, how am I ever going
to know that?
(37:46):
So obviously that's a biggerexample, but even, just even
this idea of Oh, my heart'sracing fast and I'm running
around frantically.
Okay, I'm going to choose tostop and it might still be
uncomfortable for a bit, but I'mgoing to, okay, let me continue
this at a slower pace.
And that might be uncomfortable,but it's just showing your brain
and body.
But yeah, being able to settleit down internally and takes a
(38:09):
lot of repetition and a lot ofpractice.
So although it's very simple andsomething that I hope people can
carry with them and not have tobe like, wait, what am I
supposed to do?
It's pretty easy.
It's not complex, but it takes alot of, repetition.
So that person might sit forfive minutes and then they're
back being busy again.
Great.
At least they did a little blip.
They tweaked it a little bit.
They challenged that a littlebit.
(38:30):
So you might be rushing aroundall day, and you didn't rush for
two minutes that day.
Amazing.
That's a great start.
We have to, just have to getthose little drops of
regulation, feel what that'slike, and then you start
remembering what that felt like,and then you start growing, and
then you build this capacity foryourself to live in that way,
and then you start seeing thebenefits of living that way, and
(38:51):
then it starts happening moreand more.
Where soon you just feel like,wow, I feel really regulated.
Obviously I'm going to havethings that happen to
dysregulate me.
But even in those moments, Ihave the tools.
I have the awareness to calm itdown very quickly.
Like at this point, when I'mdysregulated, I can like, like
it smacks me right in the face.
I feel it so strongly and I cancome right back down.
(39:12):
Whereas that used to just be mystate of being.
It didn't feel weird.
Cause it was normal nowregulation and being present and
calm feels more normal.
So when I'm dysregulated, itreally sticks out.
then it's so easy to work on itbecause it's not hiding.
That is huge.
And I appreciate you saying itcould be five minutes, it could
be 10 minutes, it could be twominutes, maybe even 30 seconds,
but sometimes we feel like wehave to be perfect, right?
(39:35):
Okay.
If I'm going to be regulated,then I want to do it perfect.
Then I want to be regulated tothe point, but it's a practice.
It is a one step at a time.
Itsy bitsy teeny weenie step inthe right direction in the
direction those skills.
It's a building skill.
It happens over time withrepetition.
And then part of this workregulating work, regulating our
thinking, right?
Cause all or nothing thinkingblack and white thinking we need
(39:57):
flexible thinking.
So even that is part of it,right?
Of like being flexible with, Oh,I could try implementing this
stuff.
And it might just be like alittle drop in the ocean to
start.
That's okay.
It's not all or nothing.
We want to challenge thatthinking as well because it's
also not balanced.
Absolutely.
I love the way that you talkedabout the belief system too, in
(40:19):
that a lot of the times we mightbe rushing because we believe if
we don't, others may look at usdifferently.
It comes back to the peoplepleasing tendencies and things
like that, I want to know, Howdo you view your ADHD I see that
I see things differently.
I almost feel tons of people arestanding over there looking at
it from that way.
I'm way over here looking at itfrom a totally different way.
(40:40):
Sharing about what I see andpeople are like, Oh my God, my
mind is blown.
I love that.
I can see things, after workingwith people for hundreds of
hours, I've put this alltogether and created these
observations just from talkingto people and making connections
and seeing similarities And thenit comes to me and then I create
visuals and people are like, Ohmy God, I've never understood
what was happening to me.
(41:01):
And now I put it into a graphicthat's like I have a whole
graphic of procrastination isn'treally a thing.
It's actually a cycle ofavoidance.
So I have this graphic thatshows all the steps of this
cycle of avoidance we get stuckin and how that's related to
dysregulation and what we can doto challenge that and get out of
it.
and that's such a superpower.
This isn't like me sittingtrying to really logically
figure it out.
(41:21):
the brain creates theconnections and I see it.
And I think that's so cool.
If you're very dysregulated andstruggling, I totally get that
those might be under the surfaceat the moment.
It's there.
It just maybe hasn't been ableto come out and show itself
because the dysregulation ismasking all that cool stuff.
just knowing I'm dysregulated,just knowing, yeah, I'm in this
(41:43):
cycle of being frantic andrushing and then I crash.
That's all you need to identifywith to work on it.
What do you say to people whosay, I just feel like everyone
has a little bit of ADHD?
I would just go, okay.
I can realize.
But, there's already that sayingout there, it's yeah everyone
pees, but when you're peeing ahundred times a day, there's a
bigger problem, it's yeah,everyone's going to get
distracted.
Everyone's going to be rushing.
(42:03):
Everyone's going to do this.
But, in my eyes, you know whenyou know, like I knew.
I have friends who don't.
Think like they, Oh, I relate tosome of your posts, but I know I
don't have it.
I know myself.
So anyone who, a lot of peoplework with me who are not yet
diagnosed, and I'm sure 99.
9 percent of them will get apositive diagnosis.
If you really think you have it,where you're going, seeking out
(42:24):
an ADHD coach and doing theirprogram, I'm pretty sure you've
got it.
Like you are connecting enoughand struggling enough.
And, Like having a hard enoughtime that you're like, yeah,
this is what's up like peoplewho are like, oh, identify that
one symptom.
That's not you.
it's different.
It's a different thing.
It's like a whole network ofissues that we struggle with.
(42:45):
Oh yeah, I have a hard timefocusing, like that's not in
itself ADHD, or I'll even doposts about a small part of
ADHD, like I have a post aboutlike how showering I find
difficult, or it's draining.
And people are like, thisdoesn't mean you have ADHD.
I'm like, I'm not saying thatone thing.
I'm saying I'm sharing a symptomof mine as someone with
(43:07):
diagnosed ADHD who has a large.
plate of symptoms that show upfor me.
It's not one thing.
So I think just realizing like asymptom does not make a
diagnosis.
Yeah.
It's much more complex thanthat.
Okay.
Thank you for saying that.
I really appreciate it becauseit's been coming up a lot.
This has been amazing.
Thank you so much for your timeand your expertise.
(43:28):
Where can people come find youand work with you when they're
ready to get regulated?
On social media, I'm at ADHDwith Jenna Free.
And I did also want to share, Ido have a free ADHD regulation
guide.
People can grab at ADHD withJenna Free.Com slash ADHD guide.
So that is something wherepeople want to just go I want to
know more of what that's about.
(43:49):
That's a free thing they cangrab.
so good.
Thank you so much.
Thanks for being here today.
Thank you so much.
thanks for hanging with metoday.
If this episode gave yousomething to think about or
reminded you that you're notalone in this mess, I hope you
carry that into the rest of yourday.
Right now, inside the community,we're focused on routines.
Not the perfect ones, but thereal life.
Let's just start somewhere kind.
(44:11):
We're looking at what's working,what still works, and what we
might wanna shift for the yearahead while the community is
closed right now to new members.
If you're craving support thatactually meets your brain where
it is, get on the wait list atorganizing an ADHD
brain.com/community.
Doors will open soon and I'dlove to welcome you in.
You can also grab the dopaminemenu and check out some other
(44:34):
free tools on the ways toconnect page if you're just
starting out.
Zero pressure, just good stuffto help you move forward.
And if you're curious aboutcoaching, the wait list is open
there too.
I'm reworking a few things andmaybe even dreaming up a group
coaching offer.
But we'll see.
As always, you don't have to getit all right.
You just have to start, and theperfect place to start is right
(44:57):
where you are.
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