May 13, 2025 • 41 mins
Exploring the Intersection of ADHD and the Enneagram with Angela from Your Space Reclaimed
Angela is a professional organizer and Certified Enneagram Coach who helps overwhelmed families—especially parents of special needs kids—create calm, clutter-free spaces. After moving 25+ times and raising her own daughter with Down syndrome, she knows how powerful an organized home can be. Angela also uses the Enneagram to help clients understand the “why” behind their habits so they can make lasting change. Learn more at Your Space Reclaimed.
Check Angela out on Instagram: @Yourspacereclaimed
In this episode of 'Organizing an ADHD Brain,' the host talks about the value of understanding one's Enneagram type to better manage ADHD symptoms. This week features Angela, a professional organizer and Enneagram expert who is also a parent to a disabled child. They delve into how knowing your Enneagram type can provide insights into behaviors and motivations, which can be particularly helpful for those with ADHD. Angela shares her journey into professional organizing and provides practical tips on how different Enneagram types can approach organization and relationships. The episode also announces the launch of the host's new community platform on Circle, aimed at supporting those with ADHD through various tools and group activities.
01:01 Introducing Angela: Professional Organizer
01:42 Building a Community
04:39 The Enneagram Explained
07:55 Angela's Journey into Professional Organizing
14:30 Enneagram and ADHD
24:51 Practical Tips for Self-Awareness
33:28 Angela's Podcast and Final Thoughts
Join the Organizing an ADHD Brain COMMUNITY waitlist for the FALL: What is the Community?
Looking for ADHD-friendly support with decluttering, organizing, or just making life feel a little less chaotic? The new Ways To Connect page is your go-to hub for real-life tools, gentle guidance, and ways to connect—free and paid, no pressure.
The TO DO list Daily Planner is available here! TO DO List Daily Planner
The ULTIMATE Recycling & Disposal Guide: Disposal Guide
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:02):
Hey, beautiful people.
Welcome back to another episodeof organizing an A DHD Brain.
Thanks for the patience thisweek.
We had Mother's Day this weekendand another birthday
celebration, so it has beencrazy in getting the podcast out
on Monday, but it's Tuesday.
It's not that far past, and itgives you a little bit of time
to catch up on a previousepisode if you'd like.
(00:23):
Also, I haven't mentioned thisin a while.
If you are listening to thepodcast, at least on Apple and
Spotify, you can actually speedup the episode.
I love to listen to episodes onone and a half, two x or even a
little bit faster speed, justdepending on how fast or slow
people talk.
Even when I'm editing mypodcast, sometimes I don't even
(00:46):
speak fast enough for myself.
So if you're looking for a wayto listen to podcasts in a
different way, using the speedup or even slow down.
'cause I know that some peoplelike to slow things down too.
Finding the speed that matchesyour brain will help
significantly.
This week I'm talking to myfriend Angela, who is a fellow
professional organizer.
I'm really excited to introduceyou to her, and it was fun the
(01:09):
way that her and I gotintroduced.
We have a mutual fellowprofessional organizer in
common, and her name is Kateshe's the digital Wrangler.
I freaking love her organizingname.
And then Angela today is fromyour space reclaimed.
the professional organizingcommunity.
(01:29):
There's a lot of us out there,but it is a small community and
there's so many incrediblehumans that you can work with to
help you make your life just alittle bit easier.
So before we dive into theepisode today.
I wanna share with you, I havebeen building my community on
the side, and I am so excited.
(01:51):
I originally started thepodcast, probably a couple
months in, I started a Patreon,which if you're not familiar, is
just a site where you can go andyou can post a bunch of things.
There's free stuff, there's paidstuff, but it's a way for people
to follow you.
And support the podcast, ofcourse, but there was something
about it.
I didn't like the fees.
There was just, yeah, I justdidn't really like it.
When I launched my communityearlier in the year, I was
(02:14):
really excited to do it.
I had some great ideas, buthonestly, the platform just
never did exactly what I wantedit to do.
There wasn't enough color, firstof all, and it wasn't as user
friendly as I wanted it to be.
Now I have found Circle and Iwanna thank Rus from the ADHD
Big Brother for that because Idon't know that I would've ever
(02:36):
found Circle or even had theconfidence to try something new
again in order to find somethingthat really works well.
I put hours and hours of workinto creating templates and
colorful places for us to joinand creating this space where we
can come and get some organizingdone.
(02:56):
And to connect with other peoplewho are experiencing a lot of
the same things that we do withour A DHD brains, along with not
necessarily wanting to do theorganizing or don't even know
where to start when it comes togetting to the project in the
first place.
No matter what, I would love toinvite you to join the wait
(03:18):
list.
It's in the show notes below.
I'm gonna be launching the newcommunity on May 15th, and
there's gonna be some reallycool stuff involved.
There's freebies.
By completing the onboarding,you get a free coaching with me,
and there's all kinds of reallycool stuff.
We do quiet body doubling.
And we also do virtualdecluttering.
(03:39):
There's a group coaching everysingle month.
There's just so many cool thingsand I'm so excited to continue
to build it.
I found the place guys, and Ithink that's what's so cool
about, and I'm gonna relate thisback to organizing because it's
important here.
When it comes to organizing.
It's important that you start.
It's not important that it'sperfect, although we are seeking
(04:03):
perfection sometimes.
But in this case, it was soimportant that I started
something so that I could proveto myself that I could do it.
But then I just kept seeking theright place, the right platform,
the right everything for me thatmade sense for the people that I
want to invite in.
I'm honored that you guys arealong on this journey.
(04:25):
Thanks for continuing to tune inweek after week Let's go ahead
and jump into this show,'causeI'm so excited for you to hear a
little bit more about Angela,what she does, her podcast, and
of course, what this show is allabout.
The Enneagram.
I am here with my friend Angela,who is also a professional
organizer, a fellow podcasthost.
(04:47):
She's an Enneagram expert.
She also talks about being aparent to a disabled daughter
with Down Syndrome, and she isjust.
Fabulous in so many differentways.
I'm really excited to introduceyou to her today.
And Angela, welcome.
Do you have any gaps to fill in?
I know there's so much moreabout you than what I've just
said, but No, welcome.
(05:07):
Thank you.
Thank you for having me on.
I think you covered it, I'm soexcited to chat with you today.
We have talked a little bitabout the Enneagram and how you
use that with your clients whenyou're organizing and what that
looks like.
So can you first tell us alittle bit about what the
Enneagram is?
Sure.
Yeah, absolutely.
So the Enneagram is apersonality typing framework
(05:30):
that helps us understandourselves and others.
It's how we move through theworld, how we see the world, how
process information, and It'sbased on our core motivations,
not our behaviors, which is alittle bit different than some
(05:51):
of those other personalitytyping frameworks that you might
see, like Myers-Briggs orsomething like that.
That's where it is moreimpactful, at least it has been
more impactful in my life.
It's actually has a lot ofancient roots, but it's really
only been in the United Statesfor the past 50 or 60 years.
It can be really helpful for usin terms of helping us have some
(06:14):
more self-awareness around howwe process information, how we
think, how we feel, how we goabout doing things by
understanding ourselves andunderstanding other people
around us, those people that weshare relationship with.
They might do the exact samething that we might, but for
(06:34):
very different reasons.
And getting at those coreunderlying reasons can really
help us better communicate.
It can help us reach our goalsbetter.
It can help us have a lessanxious, less stressful time
because we can recognize thosethings that set us off and we
(06:54):
can get ourselves back on trackit's really been impactful to
me.
And so that's why I have beenstudying it for the last 10
years and sharing it with anyonethat will talk to me about it
because I'm an Enneagram junkie.
I really would love to share itwith others especially those
that might have neurodiverse orhave disabilities like my
(07:16):
daughter.
I'm really trying to look intothat more.
Because it is so relatively newin the United States.
It hasn't really been looked atas far as overlapping with A DHD
and neurodiversity disability.
We're just scratching thesurface here for sure.
Cool.
Yeah, I loved it.
I took the test a couple weeksago and I was like, I don't know
what this means.
(07:36):
I watched a YouTube video on itand I knew that you were an
expert, and I was like, Angela,what do I do with this?
And you're like, let's see.
Let's talk about it.
And I love that so much, right?
Like when we're excited about asubject, that's all we want to
talk about, which is reallycool.
Yeah.
But you're also a professionalorganizer, I have three
questions to ask you in one, butI think it's doable.
How, what made you become aprofessional organizer?
(07:58):
How did you get into that space?
What's your philosophy behindit?
And then how do you include theEnneagram in your work that you
do?
Sure, yeah.
So in terms of.
How I got started inprofessional organizing.
I have to actually give creditto the Enneagram because I was
at a point in my life, my kidswere they were in like middle
(08:20):
school getting ready to go tohigh school.
We had moved so I was not in thesame community that I'd been in
for the last 10 years, and theywere getting just a tiny bit
older and a little bit moreindependent.
And you can call it a midlifecrisis.
I was like, what am I doing?
What is happening to me andwhere am I going?
How am I moving through thisworld?
(08:42):
Other than in ways just as mykids.
Mom, as Casey's mom, as adisability mom.
And I wanted something a littlebit more than that one identity.
And a friend suggested that Icheck out the Enneagram and I
started listening and I started,I listened to a podcast about
it.
(09:02):
I started reading about it and Ifigured out.
My personality type and I have apersonality type that is what
they call self forgetting.
So we take on other people'swants and needs without really
realizing our own.
And I realized I had been doingthat for a long time and it was
time for me to really figure outwhat I liked and what I wanted
(09:23):
to start doing next.
And it took a few years, but Irealized I started thinking
about what am I good at?
Like just.
As I go through the day, what amI good at?
I'm really good at organizing.
Like I've always been good atthat.
And I was at the beach one daywith some friends, at a friend's
house, and I realized I reallywanted to organize her pantry
(09:44):
and I didn't wanna go to thebeach.
I wanted to sit in, organize,and I thought, huh, there's
something like, I wonder why Iwanna do that.
And it just, I think theEnneagram was helpful in
allowing me to have some moreself-awareness and looking at
that from a non-judgmentalperspective and saying, oh, why
am I having that thought?
(10:05):
Or why am I feeling like this?
And that was what started meinto organizing.
And as I was learning about theEnneagram, I was starting to do
organizing for other families,and I realized that, I wasn't
just learning about myself andmy Enneagram type.
I was learning about all of thetypes.
And I could start to recognizewithout asking a client to take
(10:28):
a test.
Of course, I'm never gonna askthem to do that or say, Hey,
what's your Enneagram number?
But I could start to get anunderstanding a little bit about
their personality, and I wouldstart to cater.
How I offered my services tothose clients.
Like for instance, I had one, myvery first client I ended up
(10:49):
doing their whole entire home.
She was a mom of four.
Several of them had a DHD theywere all over the place and
she's.
What we call the helper inEnneagram speak, she's a two.
And she knew that about herselfas we got to know each other.
And she shared that with me andI thought, oh, okay, that makes
a lot of sense.
Because she was always focusedon her children and putting
(11:14):
their needs first.
And I said, okay, we are gonna,we're gonna stop everything and
we're gonna start to work onyour closet.
I want you to feel like.
You have your own space and thatyou have your needs met.
Even if it's just for this nexttwo hours, we're gonna focus on
you.
And so that was just one way,but I think the Enneagram helps
(11:37):
us see.
About our personality.
And our personality really hasan impact on our relationship to
clutter and our relationship tothe things in our home.
And that is just one tool that Ihave in my toolbox in terms of
how I work with people andunderstanding more about
ourselves.
Can help us figure out how bestto set up our homes, actually.
(12:00):
So I think that there's a reallystrong correlation there, and I
try to use that.
I love how you were talkingabout how it's even helped you
in your own conversations withyour husband and your kids and
like truly understanding wherethose core motivators are,
right?
Like why we're choosing to sayor do certain things.
Which allows you to see thingsfrom a new perspective so that
(12:22):
you can support someone in whattheir needs are.
Absolutely.
Yes, in fact, I think that'swhere the greatest benefit of
the Enneagram comes from.
It's in our relationships withour loved ones, in our work
relationships and ourrelationship with ourself,
obviously.
But I will say it has been veryinstrumental in improving my
(12:42):
marriage with my husband becausewe learned things about
ourselves.
Because I, of course, draggedhim along on this journey with
me about the Enneagram, and sohe's learned a lot about it and
it's been so eye-opening to seehow we process the information
around us so differently.
He's a very fast processor, sowe'll come up on a situation and
(13:07):
say like he's driving andthere's.
Car's Coming here and, he'santicipating an accident.
I'm still trying to process thefact that we're at the
intersection.
I'm a much slower processor.
And he would be like why did youknow you didn't see this?
And why didn't do this?
And I'm like, whoa, I'm still,figuring this out.
And it was really helpful for usto understand that about each
(13:29):
other.
That is not really somethingthat I can change about myself,
the fact that I am a slowerprocessor than him.
So it allowed for a lot of.
Understanding and grace withinour relationship.
And then when it comes toparenting too it can be hard to
determine our kids type.
We need to let them develop andgrow as we learn the Enneagram,
we can get ideas about what typethey might be or what those core
(13:52):
motivations are.
But it's not until they becomemore of a teenager or young
adult that we can really try to.
Get them to wrap their brainsaround that.
But I wish I had known itearlier in my parenting.
I will say certainly as my sonwas getting into high school, I
was just starting to learn it.
That would've been reallyhelpful because I think we can
have a better understanding ofhow to help our kids, how to
(14:15):
parent our kids because I wasparenting him the way that I
wanted to be parented, not theway that.
He necessarily wanted to beparented sometimes.
And so it really can beimpactful for our relationships
as well.
Yeah.
That's beautiful.
And you touched on somethingthat I think is so significant
and how this correlates to the ADHD community is you talked
(14:37):
about how there's certainaspects of yourself based on the
Enneagram, that you know youcan't change, and that's because
you can't make your brainprocess things faster.
How would you possibly go aboutdoing that?
However there are things that wecan change and adapt to based on
what we know about ourselves.
And so that's why I have thispodcast yes, we have a DHD and
(14:59):
yes, sometimes it really sucks.
There's some things that wecan't change, right?
And your daughter with adisability, like she's
incredible and there's thingsyou can't change about her.
And so it's about learning aboutthose things so that we can
understand.
How do we change and what arethe things that we can change?
How do we understand ourselvesin a way that we can adapt, like
(15:19):
you said, instead of parentingyour son the way you think he
needs to be parented, parentinghim in the way that he needs
that from you.
So what's, what is that pro?
How do we figure out what we canchange and what we can't change?
If you could tell us exactly theanswer, that would be perfect.
Sure.
Yeah.
No problem.
How many hours do you have?
(15:40):
Oh my gosh.
I know.
It is really hard.
But I do appreciate theEnneagram because it gives us
this framework for starting togo down the path of
understanding ourselves better.
And I think that's what we needto do.
The Enneagram helps us look at.
Three centers of intelligence.
That's what they call themthinking, feeling, and doing.
We all think, we all feel and weall do.
(16:02):
It's our heart, our head, andour gut.
The Enneagram helps us look athow we take in information, how
we process information, how weprocess the world.
Maybe, some people are strongerin their thinking center of
intelligence.
Others are stronger in theirfeeling center of intelligence.
When we understand thosedifferences, that's where we can
(16:23):
start to appreciate and havesome grace and compassion for
ourselves and for others.
How we process that information,what happens when we get
stressed, because things thatare probably different from
things that would stress youout.
The way I then respond to thatstress, the Enneagram kind of
helps us see that.
(16:44):
And if we can recognize that inourselves by having some of that
self-awareness, then we can stopand take a step back and
recognize what we're doing andmaybe make a change that point
in time.
If it's something that like, oh,this has always ended badly.
Let me see how I can respond ina different way.
(17:05):
And it gives us that opportunityfor self-awareness and
reflection, which I think isjust that's how we get started
on that path, yeah.
Okay.
And like it comes back to thatbeautiful saying is accept the
things that you cannot changeand change the things you can,
yeah.
Ultimately, there's certainthings about you that you can't
change.
(17:25):
And there are certain thingsthat you can adapt to based on
what you know about yourself.
And so as you look at yourselfand really truly understand,
'cause it's more than justsaying oh, that's just who I am.
It's knowing your behaviors, howyou react to certain things,
what's your clutter threshold?
At what point can you notfunction anymore?
(17:45):
At what point do you just simplyshut down?
And knowing that, so that youcould adapt to living a life
that just feels a little biteasier because you've recognized
those certain things about you.
Absolutely, and I do like to saythe Enneagram is not an excuse
for our behavior.
It's like, oh well, you know,I'm an aide.
I just automatically do that,too bad.
(18:08):
No, it's not an excuse.
It's a way of seeing, it's a wayof helping us understand
ourselves and so accepting thosethings that we can't change and
then seeing what we can do toactually bring those three
centers of intelligence,thinking, feeling and doing into
balance, because ourpersonalities are such that we
(18:28):
always have a dominant center ifwe can bring those into balance,
we are actually able to movebeyond our personality and
incorporate all the wonderfulthings about all the different
types, actually.
So that's that enlightenment,that transformation that can
happen about understandingourselves.
But yeah, the Enneagram is notsupposed to be used as an excuse
(18:49):
for behavior for sure.
Even if you have been using itas an excuse right?
Or like a diagnosis or anything,here's your chance to say, okay,
how can I adapt to this now?
How can I understand it?
No, I think that's really key.
Yeah.
Thinking about A DHD, becausewhen it comes to the Enneagram,
just because I have a DHDdoesn't mean that I'm gonna be
(19:12):
the same Enneagram number assomeone else with A DHD.
we are all so different in whatnot only motivates us, but what
holds us back from doing things.
And there's a lot ofpsychological stuff in there,
but then there's also just thenatural experiences that we have
based on all the symptoms thatwe have.
I know that there's stillresearch being done, but what do
you think people with A DHD canbenefit from learning their
(19:34):
Enneagram type?
I think that by understandingyour Enneagram type, you can
maybe take some of those thingsthat might be a struggle to you,
like impulsivity which might bea struggle for people with A
DHD.
understanding your Enneagramtype might help you get at the
(19:56):
core motivations underneath.
Why you might be more impulsiveor maybe you tend to
procrastinate it might help youget at those underlying
motivations as to why you dosome of those things.
And then.
You can have some grace foryourself, if that tends to be a
struggle for your personality,for your Enneagram type.
(20:18):
And then also, okay, what canyou do about that?
There's so much written aboutthe Enneagram and so much out
there, there are resources foreach number and so there might
be some resources out there.
Okay.
If I struggle withprocrastination, what are some
things that Enneagram nines whostruggle with procrastination
and have a DHD can do?
(20:38):
And that might help them maybesay, that's different from
someone who struggles withprocrastination and A DHD and
they're a type three, orsomething interesting.
Yeah.
But like I said, I'm currentlyin this it's called an Enneagram
cohort.
It's with Suzanne Stabile andher group here in Dallas.
And we meet four times a year.
It's a very intense class overfour weekends, and there's
(21:02):
several.
People in my cohort of 35 thathave a DHD and we're all like,
there's got to be moreinformation out there about
understanding this overlapbetween our Enneagram
personality and our A DHDbecause there is some overlap,
but how that plays out is stillout there to be learned for
sure.
Oh, that's so fascinating and Ididn't even ask this.
(21:25):
I normally ask everyone, do youhave a DHD?
I don't think that I do.
I've never been diagnosed with ADHD.
I definitely have someprocrastination tendencies.
I am familiar with an Enneagramnine coach.
She coaches a lot of Enneagramnines and she has a lot of
clients with A DHD.
I do wonder, I would love to, ifanybody could do some research
on this, understand if there isone particular type that
(21:47):
struggles more with A DHD thanothers.
I don't know the answer to that,but that's so interesting.
It would be really fine and ifit was, it would probably be my
type.
Yeah, it was really funny'causewhen I did the test and I'm a
seven and I was watching a videoand the video was like, okay, if
you're a seven and you're stillwatching this, most people
would've dipped out at aroundthe two minute mark because they
(22:10):
would've gotten all theinformation they need and left.
And I'm like.
Oh my gosh, I was about to turnthe video off, so I was like,
okay, this makes a ton of sense.
But then I also see puttingeveryone else first when it
comes to your Enneagram.
That makes a ton of sense.
I see that in a lot of peoplewith a DHD.
Yeah, I wonder if.
(22:32):
Without having a medical or ascience background and studying
this, I just wonder if there'scertain overlaps to a lot of the
different types and things thatwe experience.
But based on the research I'vedone as far as the diagnostic
criteria, it's more about is itpervasive and is it persistent?
Is it something that is justlike constant and it doesn't
(22:53):
allow you to live your life in away that.
Makes it easy to do thingsright.
But I do find it so fascinating'cause I think the more you know
about yourself, whether it is.
A diagnosis from a medicalprofessional or simply taking a
test to understand some of thethings that mean more to you in
your life or how you operate.
(23:13):
It allows you to look inward alittle bit more to meet yourself
on a deeper level.
Yeah.
So you can start to explore.
Like I love the way that youapproach your relationship in
this way and like I know.
My husband and I we are alwaysimproving our communication.
But it's fascinating'cause Iwill tell him how I see
something and he'll be like,what?
(23:33):
And he's this is how I see it.
But because we're meeting eachother there and saying this is
how we perceive it.
Whereas I know when I grew up itwas more of we disagree, we
don't talk about it, and like wejust push it under the rug and
we just pretend that ourdisagreements or our brain
differences don't even exist.
But I think that's what's sofascinating about the world that
we live in right now is likethis information download and
(23:56):
overload and stuff.
It's happening so fast for us tounderstand ourselves so that we
can understand others in adeeper and more profound way.
Yeah.
And I think too, the Enneagramgives us this language for
understanding ourselves and forothers, and also just permission
to notice and without judgment.
(24:19):
And that was what really, helpedmove me forward in a lot of my
relationships with my husbandand with friends.
Just being able to, oh, that'sinteresting.
I'm interested in learning moreabout why you see it that way.
It gave us some language andjust this permission that we
could ask questions withoutjudgment to understand better.
(24:40):
And it's just been reallyeye-opening to dig a little bit
deeper for myself and for myfamily and friends that have
been interested in it.
Really It's just a tool thatwelcomes that and that invites
us into that, So Angela, tell meif someone were trying to figure
out what their number is, wheredo you start?
Because obviously Google isgreat, however, what's the best
(25:03):
test?
Where do people go?
Is it free?
Do you pay for it?
How do we go about doing that?
So I am a little bit, I don'tknow if you could say that I'm
old school, but I really.
Think that the best way to learnabout the Enneagram and to
determine our own type is to notnecessarily take a test, but
(25:26):
there's a great book out there.
It's a very easy primer.
There's lots of great books thatyou could start reading about
the Enneagram.
My favorite one to start with iscalled The Road Back to You by
Suzanne Stabile and Ian Kron.
And it's a very easy primer.
It just gives you a little bitof information about each of the
types, and I recommend maybegetting that and starting to
(25:49):
read that, and then Whether it'sjournaling or taking mental
notes just trying to become moreself-aware, about how we move
through the world, how weprocess our information, what is
stressing us out, when we areconfronted with something, Is
our first kind of reaction tothat.
(26:12):
Do I have a thought or do I havea feeling like, is it something
inside that, where I'm feelingsomething more than thinking?
Or is it like, for me, I'm inthe doing triad, it's what do I
need to do?
Or what needs to be done.
That's my first response.
For others, it might be afeeling for my husband, he's in
the feeling triad.
He is gonna have a feeling, he'sgonna have some really strong,
(26:35):
in fact, he's gonna have a lotof feelings Before I've had one
'cause he's so fast, he's gonnahave a thought about that
feeling.
And then a feeling about thatthought and then a thought about
that feeling.
And I'm like, what is going onover here?
So that just learning about thatwas really helpful.
But so starting to become moreself-aware without judgment,
(26:56):
like there's, this is a nojudgment zone.
It's really to help understandourselves better.
And I think that kind of cantake some time.
For some people we might gothrough and listen to a podcast
or or read a book and be like,oh, I am definitely this number
or this, I'm definitely a typeseven, or I'm definitely a four.
(27:17):
And others, it can be hard towrestle out, especially if we
haven't maybe done therapy workor if we haven't done a lot of
self, exploration,self-awareness.
It can be hard to really dig atwhat are our core motivations.
And so I really do recommendtrying to learn about the
Enneagram and starting to justnarrow down, okay, I'm
(27:39):
definitely not this, I'mdefinitely not that.
And then becoming moreself-aware, okay, what happens
in this situation?
Tests are actually, they can bea really good starting point and
I recommend there's truity.com.
they have a really good test outthere.
I think they have a free one andthen they have one that you can
pay for and the free one I thinkis just fine.
(28:02):
The thing is about some of thesetests is that because the
Enneagram is based on our coremotivations, it can be difficult
to capture that on a test andsometimes we aren't even as
self-aware enough to answer someof these questions.
We might have to ask our spouseor our partner or a friend that
knows us well.
(28:22):
Sometimes that can be helpful inkind of understanding more about
ourselves.
Just having some of thoseconversations, like I heard
someone talking about on apodcast, they were saying, I
didn't think I was competitiveat all.
And then her friend heard hersay that and just burst into
laughter because she's what areyou talking about?
You're super competitive.
And it was like, I am, and shedidn't realize that.
(28:45):
And so even just havingconversations with your close,
loved ones can be helpful.
And then trying to narrow thatdown.
But I like to say that theEnneagram is it certainly can be
entertainment, right?
It can be fun to it can be like.
Party talk, right?
Conversation at a party oh,what's your Enneagram number?
And all that is really fun andgreat, but I think the true
(29:07):
growth comes from.
Moving into kind of whatinformation do I need to take
from learning about theEnneagram and how can I help
that in my own transformation,in my own understanding about
myself so that I can just bemore in balance have some
growth, be a better personhowever I define that.
And so yeah, that is probablyhow I would start, which is a.
(29:29):
Long-winded answer I'm here forthose long-winded answers and
what I loved about what you saidis specifically noticing without
judgment.
I wanted to paint a picture forthat because I think a lot of
the times in the A DHDcommunity, a lot of us grew up
labeling ourselves a certainway.
With a lot of judgment.
Like feeling the shame, feelingthe guilt, feeling everything
(29:54):
and really being angry atourselves for not being able to
do specific things because ofwho we were.
And so understanding who you arewithout judgment means saying, I
am not great with time becauseof the way that my brain works.
And so to be better with time.
I have to put something in mycalendar immediately, including
(30:17):
the address, including who it'swith, including the day and
time, and understanding whatthat looks like right away, even
if I feel uncomfortable doingit, because if I don't do that,
then I'll never show up.
But it's not because I don'twant to show up and it's not
really important to me, but it'sbecause that's how I've learned
to work with my brain.
I also dealt with, feeling likeI was always late for
(30:39):
everything.
My family made fun of me forbeing late for everything,
right?
And so I had a lot of shamearound that and a lot of guilt
because of it.
But then because I realized thatI'm not really great with time,
it's that time blindness again,I started to understand that,
okay, in order for me to show upon time to things I really have
to do, take it a couple stepsback to understand like what
(31:02):
needs to be done.
Maybe I set timers, maybe as I'mputting it into the calendar, I
can say, oh, I actually need ahalf an hour to get there, so
I'm gonna say that I'm gonna putit in here.
Things like that, that I'velearned to work with myself and
that's not, the, calendarsaren't everything, but it allows
me to say that it's okay if I'mlate sometimes, because that's
(31:24):
sometimes what happens.
And I have good intentions andI'm not gonna shame myself
because of it.
And there's more things that wecan start to notice to just say,
okay, it's okay that this is theway that this is happening.
And is there a way, is therelike this external force that
could help me do it better next?
Exactly.
Yeah.
Because when we take away thatshame, it opens, I think,
(31:48):
ourselves up to more possibilityfor how we solve whatever issue
might come from that strugglethat we have.
And when we have that shame, itjust I feel like it shuts our
brain down, right?
But then we just feel like we.
We can't do anything.
And so releasing ourselves ofthat shame and that judgment and
just understanding.
(32:09):
I have always struggled with thefact that I am a slower
processor than most, and havingespecially like my husband
laughs at me because I.
I am not really good at likenegotiations, especially like in
real time, real fast.
That is terrifying to me.
Or if I am like all of a suddenconfronted and I have a struggle
(32:30):
or conflict and I need torespond quickly, oh, that is
really hard for me.
And I've always felt a lot ofshame around that, but.
Understanding that is, that'show I was born and that was part
of my personality type, and Ican do things to improve those
situations.
But I don't need to feel a lotof shame over that just because
(32:51):
that's how I was wired.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So really, and I appreciate theEnneagram for what it is that it
allows us to take this look atourselves without judgment,
without shame, without thisprejudice, against, it's all
types have really awesome thingsabout them.
Really positive, wonderfulthings about.
(33:11):
The characteristics about thattype and all types have a
struggle.
it's two sides of the same coinand we all have that and it's
okay to accept that and workwith that and learn from that
and grow from that.
I love that so much.
And we're nearing the end, but Ireally wanna talk to my audience
(33:31):
about your podcast and howamazing it is.
I was telling you before westarted that I listened to.
An episode the other day abouthow raising your daughter when
you first found out she had DownSyndrome, that you thought that
your life was gonna be over andthat it would be, significantly
different than what you hadinitially expected.
But you now have a podcast forMoms of Disabled Kids and you
(33:55):
talk about organizing,'causethat's important.
And I love the way that you endyour podcast what do you ask
people at the end?
Oh, go out and reclaim what itis that you need because my
business is your spacereclaimed.
I feel like organizing is a wayto reclaim our.
Spaces.
But I think as disabilityparents and really as any
parents, like we are alwaystrying to reclaim, time or
(34:17):
energy that we've lost throughlosing items or stressing about
something that didn't end up allthat, stress and anxiety to
begin with.
It's all about reclaiming whatwe need, so that we can live our
best life really.
I freaking love that so much.
And like your words arebeautiful, the way you talk
about the Enneagram and you havea whole series right on the
(34:39):
Enneagram.
Like I did do a whole series.
It took me a year and a half tofind all those people.
Oh gosh.
It was like finding nine needlesin nine haystacks I found.
Each type that would then theyhad, they had a disabled child.
It was really great.
It was so fun for me.
I loved talking to people whohad already been on this growth
(35:00):
journey and then as a specialneeds parent, it was really
helpful.
So yeah, you can go on andlisten to those.
You could hear about each of thedifferent types.
There's lots of Enneagrampodcasts out there.
They're so great.
But yeah.
That's so cool.
How can people find you?
So my website is your spacereclaimed.com and my.
(35:21):
Podcast is called, especiallyOrganized, sensible Solutions
for Special Needs Moms.
And it's on Spotify and Appleand all that good stuff.
You can find it on my websitetoo, so yeah, feel free to check
me out there.
Cool.
And then do you work with peoplein person or virtually, or both?
I do both.
Yeah, I do both.
So I've worked with people allover.
(35:42):
And then I do some here in townalso, but yeah, I can do virtual
sessions.
I just did one recently with asweet mom who had a daughter of
a Down syndrome who's.
Little elementary school age.
We worked on her entryway, whichis, as you probably know, those
entryways, those are big,they're impactful spaces that
you don't think about.
(36:03):
But yeah.
I love to work with all kinds,And where are you located?
If anyone like hears you andthey're like, I have to see her
in person.
Yeah.
I'm in the Dallas area.
Thank you so much for coming onand sharing your expertise with
us today.
Oh, thank you for having me,Meg.
It's always awesome to talk withyou.
You too.
I love talking to Angela.
I think she has so many greatinsights about the Enneagram and
(36:25):
really just highlighting thefact that when we know more
about how we operate and what'sdriving us, it allows us to
truly understand what are thethings that we can work on and
what are the things that we needto embrace.
She also talks about how eachand every one of us has
strengths regardless of what ourEnneagram number is or who we
are as a human.
We have strengths that we canembrace and we also have things
(36:48):
that hold us back.
Each and every one of us, we'reall human and we all show up in
a specific way.
We all show up wanting to do ourbest, and we all make mistakes.
It's just about understandingwhat mistakes can help us grow
and, what mistakes are gonnahold us back if we don't learn
from them.
I would love for you to go checkout her podcast.
(37:09):
It's so inspiring to listen toher episodes.
She's got some really cool stuffgoing on, and I'm so impressed
with what she's been able to dowith her business, with her
daughter, also on Instagram, herdaughter, so freaking adorable.
I absolutely love her and I'dlove for you to go love her too.
All her information is in theshow notes below so that you can
(37:31):
connect with her whether youwanna organize with her, check
out what she has to offer, orjust listen to her, the podcast.
She is available to you.
Before you move on to the nextadventure in your day, I have
two things to ask from you.
If this episode made you feelseen or helped you in any way,
would you take a minute to leavea review?
It helps more a DH.
D brains like yours Find theshow and it seriously means the
(37:53):
world to me.
Just scroll down an Applepodcast and tap the stars on
Spotify.
It's quick.
It's free.
It makes a huge impact.
And if you've been loving thepodcast, imagine what it would
feel like to actually besurrounded by other A DHD brains
who get it, where we talk aboutthe hard stuff, celebrate the
wins, and finally makeorganizing doable.
(38:13):
my existing community now onCircle is opening on May 15th,
and I want you to be one of thefirst inside.
So go to organizing an ADHDbrain.com/community to join the
wait list.
Wait listers, get early access,a sneak peek inside for an event
(38:35):
and a surprise gift I knowyou'll love.
You don't have to do this alone,and honestly, we're not supposed
to do this alone.
We're supposed to havecommunity, so come check it out.
I'd love to meet you.
Let's get organized together.
I hope you had a reallybeautiful Mother's Day this past
weekend.
Whether it was you celebratingyourself or celebrating someone
else, you've got one of thehardest job that's out there.
(38:59):
Have an incredible week, andI'll see you next week.
Hey, beautiful people.
Welcome back to another episodeof organizing an A DHD Brain.
Thanks for the patience thisweek.
We had Mother's Day this weekendand another birthday
celebration, so it has beencrazy in getting the podcast out
on Monday, but it's Tuesday.
It's not that far past, and itgives you a little bit of time
to catch up on a previousepisode if you'd like.
(00:23):
Also, I haven't mentioned thisin a while.
If you are listening to thepodcast, at least on Apple and
Spotify, you can actually speedup the episode.
I love to listen to episodes onone and a half, two x or even a
little bit faster speed, justdepending on how fast or slow
people talk.
Even when I'm editing mypodcast, sometimes I don't even
(00:46):
speak fast enough for myself.
So if you're looking for a wayto listen to podcasts in a
different way, using the speedup or even slow down.
'cause I know that some peoplelike to slow things down too.
Finding the speed that matchesyour brain will help
significantly.
This week I'm talking to myfriend Angela, who is a fellow
professional organizer.
I'm really excited to introduceyou to her, and it was fun the
(01:09):
way that her and I gotintroduced.
We have a mutual fellowprofessional organizer in
common, and her name is Kateshe's the digital Wrangler.
I freaking love her organizingname.
And then Angela today is fromyour space reclaimed.
the professional organizingcommunity.
(01:29):
There's a lot of us out there,but it is a small community and
there's so many incrediblehumans that you can work with to
help you make your life just alittle bit easier.
So before we dive into theepisode today.
I wanna share with you, I havebeen building my community on
the side, and I am so excited.
(01:51):
I originally started thepodcast, probably a couple
months in, I started a Patreon,which if you're not familiar, is
just a site where you can go andyou can post a bunch of things.
There's free stuff, there's paidstuff, but it's a way for people
to follow you.
And support the podcast, ofcourse, but there was something
about it.
I didn't like the fees.
There was just, yeah, I justdidn't really like it.
When I launched my communityearlier in the year, I was
(02:14):
really excited to do it.
I had some great ideas, buthonestly, the platform just
never did exactly what I wantedit to do.
There wasn't enough color, firstof all, and it wasn't as user
friendly as I wanted it to be.
Now I have found Circle and Iwanna thank Rus from the ADHD
Big Brother for that because Idon't know that I would've ever
(02:36):
found Circle or even had theconfidence to try something new
again in order to find somethingthat really works well.
I put hours and hours of workinto creating templates and
colorful places for us to joinand creating this space where we
can come and get some organizingdone.
(02:56):
And to connect with other peoplewho are experiencing a lot of
the same things that we do withour A DHD brains, along with not
necessarily wanting to do theorganizing or don't even know
where to start when it comes togetting to the project in the
first place.
No matter what, I would love toinvite you to join the wait
(03:18):
list.
It's in the show notes below.
I'm gonna be launching the newcommunity on May 15th, and
there's gonna be some reallycool stuff involved.
There's freebies.
By completing the onboarding,you get a free coaching with me,
and there's all kinds of reallycool stuff.
We do quiet body doubling.
And we also do virtualdecluttering.
(03:39):
There's a group coaching everysingle month.
There's just so many cool thingsand I'm so excited to continue
to build it.
I found the place guys, and Ithink that's what's so cool
about, and I'm gonna relate thisback to organizing because it's
important here.
When it comes to organizing.
It's important that you start.
It's not important that it'sperfect, although we are seeking
(04:03):
perfection sometimes.
But in this case, it was soimportant that I started
something so that I could proveto myself that I could do it.
But then I just kept seeking theright place, the right platform,
the right everything for me thatmade sense for the people that I
want to invite in.
I'm honored that you guys arealong on this journey.
(04:25):
Thanks for continuing to tune inweek after week Let's go ahead
and jump into this show,'causeI'm so excited for you to hear a
little bit more about Angela,what she does, her podcast, and
of course, what this show is allabout.
The Enneagram.
I am here with my friend Angela,who is also a professional
organizer, a fellow podcasthost.
(04:47):
She's an Enneagram expert.
She also talks about being aparent to a disabled daughter
with Down Syndrome, and she isjust.
Fabulous in so many differentways.
I'm really excited to introduceyou to her today.
And Angela, welcome.
Do you have any gaps to fill in?
I know there's so much moreabout you than what I've just
said, but No, welcome.
(05:07):
Thank you.
Thank you for having me on.
I think you covered it, I'm soexcited to chat with you today.
We have talked a little bitabout the Enneagram and how you
use that with your clients whenyou're organizing and what that
looks like.
So can you first tell us alittle bit about what the
Enneagram is?
Sure.
Yeah, absolutely.
So the Enneagram is apersonality typing framework
(05:30):
that helps us understandourselves and others.
It's how we move through theworld, how we see the world, how
process information, and It'sbased on our core motivations,
not our behaviors, which is alittle bit different than some
(05:51):
of those other personalitytyping frameworks that you might
see, like Myers-Briggs orsomething like that.
That's where it is moreimpactful, at least it has been
more impactful in my life.
It's actually has a lot ofancient roots, but it's really
only been in the United Statesfor the past 50 or 60 years.
It can be really helpful for usin terms of helping us have some
(06:14):
more self-awareness around howwe process information, how we
think, how we feel, how we goabout doing things by
understanding ourselves andunderstanding other people
around us, those people that weshare relationship with.
They might do the exact samething that we might, but for
(06:34):
very different reasons.
And getting at those coreunderlying reasons can really
help us better communicate.
It can help us reach our goalsbetter.
It can help us have a lessanxious, less stressful time
because we can recognize thosethings that set us off and we
(06:54):
can get ourselves back on trackit's really been impactful to
me.
And so that's why I have beenstudying it for the last 10
years and sharing it with anyonethat will talk to me about it
because I'm an Enneagram junkie.
I really would love to share itwith others especially those
that might have neurodiverse orhave disabilities like my
(07:16):
daughter.
I'm really trying to look intothat more.
Because it is so relatively newin the United States.
It hasn't really been looked atas far as overlapping with A DHD
and neurodiversity disability.
We're just scratching thesurface here for sure.
Cool.
Yeah, I loved it.
I took the test a couple weeksago and I was like, I don't know
what this means.
(07:36):
I watched a YouTube video on itand I knew that you were an
expert, and I was like, Angela,what do I do with this?
And you're like, let's see.
Let's talk about it.
And I love that so much, right?
Like when we're excited about asubject, that's all we want to
talk about, which is reallycool.
Yeah.
But you're also a professionalorganizer, I have three
questions to ask you in one, butI think it's doable.
How, what made you become aprofessional organizer?
(07:58):
How did you get into that space?
What's your philosophy behindit?
And then how do you include theEnneagram in your work that you
do?
Sure, yeah.
So in terms of.
How I got started inprofessional organizing.
I have to actually give creditto the Enneagram because I was
at a point in my life, my kidswere they were in like middle
(08:20):
school getting ready to go tohigh school.
We had moved so I was not in thesame community that I'd been in
for the last 10 years, and theywere getting just a tiny bit
older and a little bit moreindependent.
And you can call it a midlifecrisis.
I was like, what am I doing?
What is happening to me andwhere am I going?
How am I moving through thisworld?
(08:42):
Other than in ways just as mykids.
Mom, as Casey's mom, as adisability mom.
And I wanted something a littlebit more than that one identity.
And a friend suggested that Icheck out the Enneagram and I
started listening and I started,I listened to a podcast about
it.
(09:02):
I started reading about it and Ifigured out.
My personality type and I have apersonality type that is what
they call self forgetting.
So we take on other people'swants and needs without really
realizing our own.
And I realized I had been doingthat for a long time and it was
time for me to really figure outwhat I liked and what I wanted
(09:23):
to start doing next.
And it took a few years, but Irealized I started thinking
about what am I good at?
Like just.
As I go through the day, what amI good at?
I'm really good at organizing.
Like I've always been good atthat.
And I was at the beach one daywith some friends, at a friend's
house, and I realized I reallywanted to organize her pantry
(09:44):
and I didn't wanna go to thebeach.
I wanted to sit in, organize,and I thought, huh, there's
something like, I wonder why Iwanna do that.
And it just, I think theEnneagram was helpful in
allowing me to have some moreself-awareness and looking at
that from a non-judgmentalperspective and saying, oh, why
am I having that thought?
(10:05):
Or why am I feeling like this?
And that was what started meinto organizing.
And as I was learning about theEnneagram, I was starting to do
organizing for other families,and I realized that, I wasn't
just learning about myself andmy Enneagram type.
I was learning about all of thetypes.
And I could start to recognizewithout asking a client to take
(10:28):
a test.
Of course, I'm never gonna askthem to do that or say, Hey,
what's your Enneagram number?
But I could start to get anunderstanding a little bit about
their personality, and I wouldstart to cater.
How I offered my services tothose clients.
Like for instance, I had one, myvery first client I ended up
(10:49):
doing their whole entire home.
She was a mom of four.
Several of them had a DHD theywere all over the place and
she's.
What we call the helper inEnneagram speak, she's a two.
And she knew that about herselfas we got to know each other.
And she shared that with me andI thought, oh, okay, that makes
a lot of sense.
Because she was always focusedon her children and putting
(11:14):
their needs first.
And I said, okay, we are gonna,we're gonna stop everything and
we're gonna start to work onyour closet.
I want you to feel like.
You have your own space and thatyou have your needs met.
Even if it's just for this nexttwo hours, we're gonna focus on
you.
And so that was just one way,but I think the Enneagram helps
(11:37):
us see.
About our personality.
And our personality really hasan impact on our relationship to
clutter and our relationship tothe things in our home.
And that is just one tool that Ihave in my toolbox in terms of
how I work with people andunderstanding more about
ourselves.
Can help us figure out how bestto set up our homes, actually.
(12:00):
So I think that there's a reallystrong correlation there, and I
try to use that.
I love how you were talkingabout how it's even helped you
in your own conversations withyour husband and your kids and
like truly understanding wherethose core motivators are,
right?
Like why we're choosing to sayor do certain things.
Which allows you to see thingsfrom a new perspective so that
(12:22):
you can support someone in whattheir needs are.
Absolutely.
Yes, in fact, I think that'swhere the greatest benefit of
the Enneagram comes from.
It's in our relationships withour loved ones, in our work
relationships and ourrelationship with ourself,
obviously.
But I will say it has been veryinstrumental in improving my
(12:42):
marriage with my husband becausewe learned things about
ourselves.
Because I, of course, draggedhim along on this journey with
me about the Enneagram, and sohe's learned a lot about it and
it's been so eye-opening to seehow we process the information
around us so differently.
He's a very fast processor, sowe'll come up on a situation and
(13:07):
say like he's driving andthere's.
Car's Coming here and, he'santicipating an accident.
I'm still trying to process thefact that we're at the
intersection.
I'm a much slower processor.
And he would be like why did youknow you didn't see this?
And why didn't do this?
And I'm like, whoa, I'm still,figuring this out.
And it was really helpful for usto understand that about each
(13:29):
other.
That is not really somethingthat I can change about myself,
the fact that I am a slowerprocessor than him.
So it allowed for a lot of.
Understanding and grace withinour relationship.
And then when it comes toparenting too it can be hard to
determine our kids type.
We need to let them develop andgrow as we learn the Enneagram,
we can get ideas about what typethey might be or what those core
(13:52):
motivations are.
But it's not until they becomemore of a teenager or young
adult that we can really try to.
Get them to wrap their brainsaround that.
But I wish I had known itearlier in my parenting.
I will say certainly as my sonwas getting into high school, I
was just starting to learn it.
That would've been reallyhelpful because I think we can
have a better understanding ofhow to help our kids, how to
(14:15):
parent our kids because I wasparenting him the way that I
wanted to be parented, not theway that.
He necessarily wanted to beparented sometimes.
And so it really can beimpactful for our relationships
as well.
Yeah.
That's beautiful.
And you touched on somethingthat I think is so significant
and how this correlates to the ADHD community is you talked
(14:37):
about how there's certainaspects of yourself based on the
Enneagram, that you know youcan't change, and that's because
you can't make your brainprocess things faster.
How would you possibly go aboutdoing that?
However there are things that wecan change and adapt to based on
what we know about ourselves.
And so that's why I have thispodcast yes, we have a DHD and
(14:59):
yes, sometimes it really sucks.
There's some things that wecan't change, right?
And your daughter with adisability, like she's
incredible and there's thingsyou can't change about her.
And so it's about learning aboutthose things so that we can
understand.
How do we change and what arethe things that we can change?
How do we understand ourselvesin a way that we can adapt, like
(15:19):
you said, instead of parentingyour son the way you think he
needs to be parented, parentinghim in the way that he needs
that from you.
So what's, what is that pro?
How do we figure out what we canchange and what we can't change?
If you could tell us exactly theanswer, that would be perfect.
Sure.
Yeah.
No problem.
How many hours do you have?
(15:40):
Oh my gosh.
I know.
It is really hard.
But I do appreciate theEnneagram because it gives us
this framework for starting togo down the path of
understanding ourselves better.
And I think that's what we needto do.
The Enneagram helps us look at.
Three centers of intelligence.
That's what they call themthinking, feeling, and doing.
We all think, we all feel and weall do.
(16:02):
It's our heart, our head, andour gut.
The Enneagram helps us look athow we take in information, how
we process information, how weprocess the world.
Maybe, some people are strongerin their thinking center of
intelligence.
Others are stronger in theirfeeling center of intelligence.
When we understand thosedifferences, that's where we can
(16:23):
start to appreciate and havesome grace and compassion for
ourselves and for others.
How we process that information,what happens when we get
stressed, because things thatare probably different from
things that would stress youout.
The way I then respond to thatstress, the Enneagram kind of
helps us see that.
(16:44):
And if we can recognize that inourselves by having some of that
self-awareness, then we can stopand take a step back and
recognize what we're doing andmaybe make a change that point
in time.
If it's something that like, oh,this has always ended badly.
Let me see how I can respond ina different way.
(17:05):
And it gives us that opportunityfor self-awareness and
reflection, which I think isjust that's how we get started
on that path, yeah.
Okay.
And like it comes back to thatbeautiful saying is accept the
things that you cannot changeand change the things you can,
yeah.
Ultimately, there's certainthings about you that you can't
change.
(17:25):
And there are certain thingsthat you can adapt to based on
what you know about yourself.
And so as you look at yourselfand really truly understand,
'cause it's more than justsaying oh, that's just who I am.
It's knowing your behaviors, howyou react to certain things,
what's your clutter threshold?
At what point can you notfunction anymore?
(17:45):
At what point do you just simplyshut down?
And knowing that, so that youcould adapt to living a life
that just feels a little biteasier because you've recognized
those certain things about you.
Absolutely, and I do like to saythe Enneagram is not an excuse
for our behavior.
It's like, oh well, you know,I'm an aide.
I just automatically do that,too bad.
(18:08):
No, it's not an excuse.
It's a way of seeing, it's a wayof helping us understand
ourselves and so accepting thosethings that we can't change and
then seeing what we can do toactually bring those three
centers of intelligence,thinking, feeling and doing into
balance, because ourpersonalities are such that we
(18:28):
always have a dominant center ifwe can bring those into balance,
we are actually able to movebeyond our personality and
incorporate all the wonderfulthings about all the different
types, actually.
So that's that enlightenment,that transformation that can
happen about understandingourselves.
But yeah, the Enneagram is notsupposed to be used as an excuse
(18:49):
for behavior for sure.
Even if you have been using itas an excuse right?
Or like a diagnosis or anything,here's your chance to say, okay,
how can I adapt to this now?
How can I understand it?
No, I think that's really key.
Yeah.
Thinking about A DHD, becausewhen it comes to the Enneagram,
just because I have a DHDdoesn't mean that I'm gonna be
(19:12):
the same Enneagram number assomeone else with A DHD.
we are all so different in whatnot only motivates us, but what
holds us back from doing things.
And there's a lot ofpsychological stuff in there,
but then there's also just thenatural experiences that we have
based on all the symptoms thatwe have.
I know that there's stillresearch being done, but what do
you think people with A DHD canbenefit from learning their
(19:34):
Enneagram type?
I think that by understandingyour Enneagram type, you can
maybe take some of those thingsthat might be a struggle to you,
like impulsivity which might bea struggle for people with A
DHD.
understanding your Enneagramtype might help you get at the
(19:56):
core motivations underneath.
Why you might be more impulsiveor maybe you tend to
procrastinate it might help youget at those underlying
motivations as to why you dosome of those things.
And then.
You can have some grace foryourself, if that tends to be a
struggle for your personality,for your Enneagram type.
(20:18):
And then also, okay, what canyou do about that?
There's so much written aboutthe Enneagram and so much out
there, there are resources foreach number and so there might
be some resources out there.
Okay.
If I struggle withprocrastination, what are some
things that Enneagram nines whostruggle with procrastination
and have a DHD can do?
(20:38):
And that might help them maybesay, that's different from
someone who struggles withprocrastination and A DHD and
they're a type three, orsomething interesting.
Yeah.
But like I said, I'm currentlyin this it's called an Enneagram
cohort.
It's with Suzanne Stabile andher group here in Dallas.
And we meet four times a year.
It's a very intense class overfour weekends, and there's
(21:02):
several.
People in my cohort of 35 thathave a DHD and we're all like,
there's got to be moreinformation out there about
understanding this overlapbetween our Enneagram
personality and our A DHDbecause there is some overlap,
but how that plays out is stillout there to be learned for
sure.
Oh, that's so fascinating and Ididn't even ask this.
(21:25):
I normally ask everyone, do youhave a DHD?
I don't think that I do.
I've never been diagnosed with ADHD.
I definitely have someprocrastination tendencies.
I am familiar with an Enneagramnine coach.
She coaches a lot of Enneagramnines and she has a lot of
clients with A DHD.
I do wonder, I would love to, ifanybody could do some research
on this, understand if there isone particular type that
(21:47):
struggles more with A DHD thanothers.
I don't know the answer to that,but that's so interesting.
It would be really fine and ifit was, it would probably be my
type.
Yeah, it was really funny'causewhen I did the test and I'm a
seven and I was watching a videoand the video was like, okay, if
you're a seven and you're stillwatching this, most people
would've dipped out at aroundthe two minute mark because they
(22:10):
would've gotten all theinformation they need and left.
And I'm like.
Oh my gosh, I was about to turnthe video off, so I was like,
okay, this makes a ton of sense.
But then I also see puttingeveryone else first when it
comes to your Enneagram.
That makes a ton of sense.
I see that in a lot of peoplewith a DHD.
Yeah, I wonder if.
(22:32):
Without having a medical or ascience background and studying
this, I just wonder if there'scertain overlaps to a lot of the
different types and things thatwe experience.
But based on the research I'vedone as far as the diagnostic
criteria, it's more about is itpervasive and is it persistent?
Is it something that is justlike constant and it doesn't
(22:53):
allow you to live your life in away that.
Makes it easy to do thingsright.
But I do find it so fascinating'cause I think the more you know
about yourself, whether it is.
A diagnosis from a medicalprofessional or simply taking a
test to understand some of thethings that mean more to you in
your life or how you operate.
(23:13):
It allows you to look inward alittle bit more to meet yourself
on a deeper level.
Yeah.
So you can start to explore.
Like I love the way that youapproach your relationship in
this way and like I know.
My husband and I we are alwaysimproving our communication.
But it's fascinating'cause Iwill tell him how I see
something and he'll be like,what?
(23:33):
And he's this is how I see it.
But because we're meeting eachother there and saying this is
how we perceive it.
Whereas I know when I grew up itwas more of we disagree, we
don't talk about it, and like wejust push it under the rug and
we just pretend that ourdisagreements or our brain
differences don't even exist.
But I think that's what's sofascinating about the world that
we live in right now is likethis information download and
(23:56):
overload and stuff.
It's happening so fast for us tounderstand ourselves so that we
can understand others in adeeper and more profound way.
Yeah.
And I think too, the Enneagramgives us this language for
understanding ourselves and forothers, and also just permission
to notice and without judgment.
(24:19):
And that was what really, helpedmove me forward in a lot of my
relationships with my husbandand with friends.
Just being able to, oh, that'sinteresting.
I'm interested in learning moreabout why you see it that way.
It gave us some language andjust this permission that we
could ask questions withoutjudgment to understand better.
(24:40):
And it's just been reallyeye-opening to dig a little bit
deeper for myself and for myfamily and friends that have
been interested in it.
Really It's just a tool thatwelcomes that and that invites
us into that, So Angela, tell meif someone were trying to figure
out what their number is, wheredo you start?
Because obviously Google isgreat, however, what's the best
(25:03):
test?
Where do people go?
Is it free?
Do you pay for it?
How do we go about doing that?
So I am a little bit, I don'tknow if you could say that I'm
old school, but I really.
Think that the best way to learnabout the Enneagram and to
determine our own type is to notnecessarily take a test, but
(25:26):
there's a great book out there.
It's a very easy primer.
There's lots of great books thatyou could start reading about
the Enneagram.
My favorite one to start with iscalled The Road Back to You by
Suzanne Stabile and Ian Kron.
And it's a very easy primer.
It just gives you a little bitof information about each of the
types, and I recommend maybegetting that and starting to
(25:49):
read that, and then Whether it'sjournaling or taking mental
notes just trying to become moreself-aware, about how we move
through the world, how weprocess our information, what is
stressing us out, when we areconfronted with something, Is
our first kind of reaction tothat.
(26:12):
Do I have a thought or do I havea feeling like, is it something
inside that, where I'm feelingsomething more than thinking?
Or is it like, for me, I'm inthe doing triad, it's what do I
need to do?
Or what needs to be done.
That's my first response.
For others, it might be afeeling for my husband, he's in
the feeling triad.
He is gonna have a feeling, he'sgonna have some really strong,
(26:35):
in fact, he's gonna have a lotof feelings Before I've had one
'cause he's so fast, he's gonnahave a thought about that
feeling.
And then a feeling about thatthought and then a thought about
that feeling.
And I'm like, what is going onover here?
So that just learning about thatwas really helpful.
But so starting to become moreself-aware without judgment,
(26:56):
like there's, this is a nojudgment zone.
It's really to help understandourselves better.
And I think that kind of cantake some time.
For some people we might gothrough and listen to a podcast
or or read a book and be like,oh, I am definitely this number
or this, I'm definitely a typeseven, or I'm definitely a four.
(27:17):
And others, it can be hard towrestle out, especially if we
haven't maybe done therapy workor if we haven't done a lot of
self, exploration,self-awareness.
It can be hard to really dig atwhat are our core motivations.
And so I really do recommendtrying to learn about the
Enneagram and starting to justnarrow down, okay, I'm
(27:39):
definitely not this, I'mdefinitely not that.
And then becoming moreself-aware, okay, what happens
in this situation?
Tests are actually, they can bea really good starting point and
I recommend there's truity.com.
they have a really good test outthere.
I think they have a free one andthen they have one that you can
pay for and the free one I thinkis just fine.
(28:02):
The thing is about some of thesetests is that because the
Enneagram is based on our coremotivations, it can be difficult
to capture that on a test andsometimes we aren't even as
self-aware enough to answer someof these questions.
We might have to ask our spouseor our partner or a friend that
knows us well.
(28:22):
Sometimes that can be helpful inkind of understanding more about
ourselves.
Just having some of thoseconversations, like I heard
someone talking about on apodcast, they were saying, I
didn't think I was competitiveat all.
And then her friend heard hersay that and just burst into
laughter because she's what areyou talking about?
You're super competitive.
And it was like, I am, and shedidn't realize that.
(28:45):
And so even just havingconversations with your close,
loved ones can be helpful.
And then trying to narrow thatdown.
But I like to say that theEnneagram is it certainly can be
entertainment, right?
It can be fun to it can be like.
Party talk, right?
Conversation at a party oh,what's your Enneagram number?
And all that is really fun andgreat, but I think the true
(29:07):
growth comes from.
Moving into kind of whatinformation do I need to take
from learning about theEnneagram and how can I help
that in my own transformation,in my own understanding about
myself so that I can just bemore in balance have some
growth, be a better personhowever I define that.
And so yeah, that is probablyhow I would start, which is a.
(29:29):
Long-winded answer I'm here forthose long-winded answers and
what I loved about what you saidis specifically noticing without
judgment.
I wanted to paint a picture forthat because I think a lot of
the times in the A DHDcommunity, a lot of us grew up
labeling ourselves a certainway.
With a lot of judgment.
Like feeling the shame, feelingthe guilt, feeling everything
(29:54):
and really being angry atourselves for not being able to
do specific things because ofwho we were.
And so understanding who you arewithout judgment means saying, I
am not great with time becauseof the way that my brain works.
And so to be better with time.
I have to put something in mycalendar immediately, including
(30:17):
the address, including who it'swith, including the day and
time, and understanding whatthat looks like right away, even
if I feel uncomfortable doingit, because if I don't do that,
then I'll never show up.
But it's not because I don'twant to show up and it's not
really important to me, but it'sbecause that's how I've learned
to work with my brain.
I also dealt with, feeling likeI was always late for
(30:39):
everything.
My family made fun of me forbeing late for everything,
right?
And so I had a lot of shamearound that and a lot of guilt
because of it.
But then because I realized thatI'm not really great with time,
it's that time blindness again,I started to understand that,
okay, in order for me to show upon time to things I really have
to do, take it a couple stepsback to understand like what
(31:02):
needs to be done.
Maybe I set timers, maybe as I'mputting it into the calendar, I
can say, oh, I actually need ahalf an hour to get there, so
I'm gonna say that I'm gonna putit in here.
Things like that, that I'velearned to work with myself and
that's not, the, calendarsaren't everything, but it allows
me to say that it's okay if I'mlate sometimes, because that's
(31:24):
sometimes what happens.
And I have good intentions andI'm not gonna shame myself
because of it.
And there's more things that wecan start to notice to just say,
okay, it's okay that this is theway that this is happening.
And is there a way, is therelike this external force that
could help me do it better next?
Exactly.
Yeah.
Because when we take away thatshame, it opens, I think,
(31:48):
ourselves up to more possibilityfor how we solve whatever issue
might come from that strugglethat we have.
And when we have that shame, itjust I feel like it shuts our
brain down, right?
But then we just feel like we.
We can't do anything.
And so releasing ourselves ofthat shame and that judgment and
just understanding.
(32:09):
I have always struggled with thefact that I am a slower
processor than most, and havingespecially like my husband
laughs at me because I.
I am not really good at likenegotiations, especially like in
real time, real fast.
That is terrifying to me.
Or if I am like all of a suddenconfronted and I have a struggle
(32:30):
or conflict and I need torespond quickly, oh, that is
really hard for me.
And I've always felt a lot ofshame around that, but.
Understanding that is, that'show I was born and that was part
of my personality type, and Ican do things to improve those
situations.
But I don't need to feel a lotof shame over that just because
(32:51):
that's how I was wired.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So really, and I appreciate theEnneagram for what it is that it
allows us to take this look atourselves without judgment,
without shame, without thisprejudice, against, it's all
types have really awesome thingsabout them.
Really positive, wonderfulthings about.
(33:11):
The characteristics about thattype and all types have a
struggle.
it's two sides of the same coinand we all have that and it's
okay to accept that and workwith that and learn from that
and grow from that.
I love that so much.
And we're nearing the end, but Ireally wanna talk to my audience
(33:31):
about your podcast and howamazing it is.
I was telling you before westarted that I listened to.
An episode the other day abouthow raising your daughter when
you first found out she had DownSyndrome, that you thought that
your life was gonna be over andthat it would be, significantly
different than what you hadinitially expected.
But you now have a podcast forMoms of Disabled Kids and you
(33:55):
talk about organizing,'causethat's important.
And I love the way that you endyour podcast what do you ask
people at the end?
Oh, go out and reclaim what itis that you need because my
business is your spacereclaimed.
I feel like organizing is a wayto reclaim our.
Spaces.
But I think as disabilityparents and really as any
parents, like we are alwaystrying to reclaim, time or
(34:17):
energy that we've lost throughlosing items or stressing about
something that didn't end up allthat, stress and anxiety to
begin with.
It's all about reclaiming whatwe need, so that we can live our
best life really.
I freaking love that so much.
And like your words arebeautiful, the way you talk
about the Enneagram and you havea whole series right on the
(34:39):
Enneagram.
Like I did do a whole series.
It took me a year and a half tofind all those people.
Oh gosh.
It was like finding nine needlesin nine haystacks I found.
Each type that would then theyhad, they had a disabled child.
It was really great.
It was so fun for me.
I loved talking to people whohad already been on this growth
(35:00):
journey and then as a specialneeds parent, it was really
helpful.
So yeah, you can go on andlisten to those.
You could hear about each of thedifferent types.
There's lots of Enneagrampodcasts out there.
They're so great.
But yeah.
That's so cool.
How can people find you?
So my website is your spacereclaimed.com and my.
(35:21):
Podcast is called, especiallyOrganized, sensible Solutions
for Special Needs Moms.
And it's on Spotify and Appleand all that good stuff.
You can find it on my websitetoo, so yeah, feel free to check
me out there.
Cool.
And then do you work with peoplein person or virtually, or both?
I do both.
Yeah, I do both.
So I've worked with people allover.
(35:42):
And then I do some here in townalso, but yeah, I can do virtual
sessions.
I just did one recently with asweet mom who had a daughter of
a Down syndrome who's.
Little elementary school age.
We worked on her entryway, whichis, as you probably know, those
entryways, those are big,they're impactful spaces that
you don't think about.
(36:03):
But yeah.
I love to work with all kinds,And where are you located?
If anyone like hears you andthey're like, I have to see her
in person.
Yeah.
I'm in the Dallas area.
Thank you so much for coming onand sharing your expertise with
us today.
Oh, thank you for having me,Meg.
It's always awesome to talk withyou.
You too.
I love talking to Angela.
I think she has so many greatinsights about the Enneagram and
(36:25):
really just highlighting thefact that when we know more
about how we operate and what'sdriving us, it allows us to
truly understand what are thethings that we can work on and
what are the things that we needto embrace.
She also talks about how eachand every one of us has
strengths regardless of what ourEnneagram number is or who we
are as a human.
We have strengths that we canembrace and we also have things
(36:48):
that hold us back.
Each and every one of us, we'reall human and we all show up in
a specific way.
We all show up wanting to do ourbest, and we all make mistakes.
It's just about understandingwhat mistakes can help us grow
and, what mistakes are gonnahold us back if we don't learn
from them.
I would love for you to go checkout her podcast.
(37:09):
It's so inspiring to listen toher episodes.
She's got some really cool stuffgoing on, and I'm so impressed
with what she's been able to dowith her business, with her
daughter, also on Instagram, herdaughter, so freaking adorable.
I absolutely love her and I'dlove for you to go love her too.
All her information is in theshow notes below so that you can
(37:31):
connect with her whether youwanna organize with her, check
out what she has to offer, orjust listen to her, the podcast.
She is available to you.
Before you move on to the nextadventure in your day, I have
two things to ask from you.
If this episode made you feelseen or helped you in any way,
would you take a minute to leavea review?
It helps more a DH.
D brains like yours Find theshow and it seriously means the
(37:53):
world to me.
Just scroll down an Applepodcast and tap the stars on
Spotify.
It's quick.
It's free.
It makes a huge impact.
And if you've been loving thepodcast, imagine what it would
feel like to actually besurrounded by other A DHD brains
who get it, where we talk aboutthe hard stuff, celebrate the
wins, and finally makeorganizing doable.
(38:13):
my existing community now onCircle is opening on May 15th,
and I want you to be one of thefirst inside.
So go to organizing an ADHDbrain.com/community to join the
wait list.
Wait listers, get early access,a sneak peek inside for an event
(38:35):
and a surprise gift I knowyou'll love.
You don't have to do this alone,and honestly, we're not supposed
to do this alone.
We're supposed to havecommunity, so come check it out.
I'd love to meet you.
Let's get organized together.
I hope you had a reallybeautiful Mother's Day this past
weekend.
Whether it was you celebratingyourself or celebrating someone
else, you've got one of thehardest job that's out there.
(38:59):
Have an incredible week, andI'll see you next week.
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