November 14, 2024 • 54 mins
What if the path to personal growth and emotional wellness could be tailored to your unique needs and preferences? Sergio Soto Alvarez, a licensed marriage and family therapist with an MBA, joins us to unveil the groundbreaking TheraCoach platform, which merges therapy and coaching into a flexible, accessible model. Sergio's inspiring journey from a small California town to pioneering this innovative approach is a testament to his commitment to transforming mental health support. With TheraCoach, individuals can choose between therapy, potentially covered by insurance, or coaching for professional development, challenging traditional stigmas and offering a personalized path to growth.
Differentiating between therapy and coaching, Sergio sheds light on the ethical considerations and boundaries that define each profession. He stresses the importance of trauma-informed care and the potential risks of unqualified coaching in trauma situations. By advocating collaboration and mutual respect between therapists and coaches, Sergio guides listeners in making informed decisions about their mental health journey. Tune in to uncover the distinct yet complementary roles of therapy and coaching, and discover how to select the right support for your needs.
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IG: @theracoachsergio
website: https://www.theracoaching.net/
Disclaimer: It's essential to note that while I am a therapist, this podcast is not a substitute for therapy. The stories and discussions shared here are meant to inform and inspire but should not replace professional advice or support.Â
Emergency Helplines
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- National Domestic Violence Hotline: 1-800-799-7233 - www.thehotline.org
- SAMHSA Helpline: 1-800-662-HELP (4357) - www.samhsa.gov
- LGBT Trevor Project Lifeline: 1-866-488-7386 - www.thetrevorproject.org
- Veterans Crisis Line: 1-800-273-TALK (8255) - www.veteranscrisisline.net
- Ayuda en Español: 1-888-628-9454 - www.suicidepreventionlifeline.org/es
- National Deaf Therapy: www.nationaldeaftherapy.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hi, my name is Sergio Soto Alvarez.
I am a licensed marriage andfamily therapist and I also
possess an MBA.
I am the founder of TheraCoach,where, I believe that you know,
we have the choice of pickingtherapy or coaching.
So I developed this conceptwhere if people want to get
therapy, they can come to me anduse their insurance, or if
(00:20):
therapy isn't what you'reseeking, but more professional
development around your career,academics, then coaching is also
an option at TheraCoach.
And if you want to know moreabout TheraCoach, feel free to
visit my website attheracoachingnet, and you can
also find me on LinkedIn bysearching my name, Sergio Soto
Alvarez, and you'll find a blurbof what TheraCoach is, along
(00:41):
with other services that Iprovide.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
Thank you coaches, along with other services that I
provide.
Thank you, hello, beautifulsouls, and welcome to Oroasis
Community Podcast.
I am Dr Roldan, your host.
I am a doctor in clinicalpsychology, a BIPOC therapist
professor and a mindful somaticcoach.
While I am a therapist,remember I'm not your therapist.
(01:08):
This podcast is not a substitutefor professional mental health
care, but we have resources inour website and Instagram to
support you in that search.
Join us for a cozy, feltconversation about mental health
, personal growth andmindfulness.
We explore tools to care foryour mind, your body and your
soul.
Check the footnotes fordisclaimer, trigger warnings and
(01:30):
additional resources for eachone of the episodes.
So grab your favorite cup oftea, coffee or hot chocolate,
wrap yourself in a warm blanketand find a coffee spot here with
us to be kind to be brave, loudand strong in your search of
(01:51):
mental health wellness.
Welcome to your Oasis, welcomeback everybody.
Today I have a delight for you.
So grab your cup of coffee, teaor any beverage that fuzzies
your soul, because I have a goodfriend and also a colleague and
a man that I admire foreverything that he does, because
(02:14):
he's not only kind and caresfor the community, he also cares
for the advancement of ourcommunities, and he cares about
mental health in men.
So for no further ado, we haveSergio.
Sergio is an LMFT and also acoach, correct Correct.
So welcome to our Oasiscommunity, sergio.
Speaker 1 (02:37):
Thank you, dr Roland.
I'm so happy to be here.
It took a while for me and youto connect, but I'm glad that
you're able to have me on ourOasis Community Podcast.
So thank you, thank you.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
Thank you.
I know the schedules are crazyfor all of us and the reason why
I invite Sergio to the many,many times we have trying to
schedule for many, many months.
So you guys are for a delight,but the reason is because he has
the concept that I love, thatis, having coaching and therapy,
not a combination, but grabwhat you need, which is the
(03:11):
slogan that we have in our oasis.
Mental health is for everybody,but therapy is not accessible
for everybody, so sometimes weneed a coach, and Sergio is
going to tell us his story abouthow he started this movement,
why did he start this movement,and his story about what is his
mental health approach andcoaching approach.
(03:33):
All right?
Speaker 1 (03:35):
Well, thank you, dr Goldman.
So yeah, let me let me go backin time a little bit.
I grew up in a very smallconservative town by the name of
Watsonville, california, superMexican tradition.
And you know, as I grew up, Irealized that I was a very shy
kid.
Even in grad school I learnedthat I wouldn't even like speak
(04:00):
up or raise my hand, and a lotof it was because I was
embarrassed and shy and, I guessyou can say, a little insecure
about what I was going to saybecause I was just not prepared
for it.
So you know, I went to gradschool to become a therapist and
through that I realized that Iwas still shy to speak I'm more
(04:23):
of a one-on-one person but Ialso realized that I wanted to
move up in my career.
I didn't want to shy to speakI'm more of a one-on-one person
but I also realized that Iwanted to move up in my career.
I didn't want to just dotherapy, I wanted to get into
management and lead a team.
So then I decided to get my MBAand actually challenge myself.
And when I was applying for MBAsI was looking for programs that
were in person and that wouldchallenge me to public speak and
(04:45):
I did it.
I went to san marcos csu, sanmarcos got my nba and this came
to me during covid.
I was like I need to dosomething to challenge myself.
You know, we're in lockdown,I'm bored and a lot of me wanted
to challenge things andlearning things, so I won't I'm
not gonna lie, like getting mynba was probably the hardest
(05:05):
yeah thing I've done, notbecause of the math, because I
had to stand in front of a lotof people who just seem very
confident and you know, I alwaysfound myself being the person
in our group, our team groups,being like hey, like what's
going on?
Like like why are you soanxious?
Or you know, like, like what'sgoing on with your body?
Like why can't we turn thatanxiety into excitement instead
(05:27):
of like nervousness?
So through my grad schoolprogram, I was able to create
their coach, because there was aproject where it was
essentially create your ownprogram or business.
And I thought you know whatother, what better way to
develop my own business than inthis actual program?
(05:49):
So that's what I did.
I developed their coach and Icall it their coach because it's
basically therapy and coaching.
Right, and I honestly know thata lot of people don't want to
go to therapy.
There's still a stigma withwanting therapy and some people
want to focus more on theiracademics, professional
development and also coachingdoesn't require insurance.
(06:10):
Some people don't haveinsurance so they can opt out of
that and go to coaching, whichcan kind of be the same thing.
But at TheraCoach I do takeinsurance and also coaching is
typically out of pocket.
But I developed this for me.
Th coach was for me and it'sfunny because I always tell my
partner when he's telling methings and he's like do it this
(06:30):
way, like speak up or go againstthe grain with your boss, I'm
like I know, but that's nottheir coach, because my
philosophy is also bringingheart into every meeting I go to
.
It's not just about the mindfor me.
That's why I blended mybusiness and psychology together
, because I believe that you canbring vulnerability and empathy
(06:50):
into a business meeting,because people think that it's
weakness.
It really isn't.
It's so much more work to bevulnerable and weak, especially
in mental health, and luckily,my professional development has
led me to, aside from leadingbeing the founder of Theracoch,
I'm also the director of socialservices at a nonprofit here in
(07:12):
San Diego and I overseebehavioral health clinics and I
work alongside amazing people,and I always keep in mind that
these people are also people.
They're human, they havefeelings, emotions, and that's
where I find that balance.
Speaker 2 (07:27):
Right, right and Sergio and I we met once upon a
time when we were in ourinternships.
As my audience know, I startedin forensics and then nonprofits
, and when I met Sergio, we werein highway houses or safe
houses.
Speaker 1 (07:45):
Yeah, we were at the crisis houses.
Yeah, we were in the crisis.
That was so long ago.
Speaker 2 (07:50):
We were super babies and Sergio was very quiet but he
was such a gentle force.
When you go into these crisishouses you get a little bit of
everything A little bit ofaddiction, a little bit of
psychosis, a little bit ofeverything a little bit of
addiction, a little bit ofpsychosis, a little bit of like
I'm just trying to find a newplace to move and he will come.
(08:12):
Everybody, everybody.
And of course I was like themore talkative one, I was the
one that I liked they solved thecases.
But like him, I noticed that inour communities, in the Latino
communities, men are neglectedmostly a lot of the time.
I mean, it's hard enough forwomen to get help in our
(08:33):
communities.
So we go with la comadre, withthe padrecito, with maybe el
curandero.
We go with everything elseexcept somebody that is a little
bit trained in trauma, informed, or is a therapist, right, and
like you, I create Oasis Academybecause I saw that.
I saw how our community will gowith coaches a lot, and there
(08:57):
is good coaches and there isquestionable coaches.
Right, like in therapy, thereis great therapists and there is
therapists that they should notdo this to either, right, so
there is always something.
And with that I went inconsulting in my as in law
enforcement and first respondersright In the active duty.
That's where I go and do a lotof these vulnerably workshops.
(09:22):
But I want to touch base withyou about how it was being a
male in this environment Because, you know, as it is, there is
certain careers that they alwaysplace, unfortunately, in that
gender.
Right Like teachers are female.
Kindergarten teachers should befemale when in reality it
should be everything right,because kids need to see
(09:42):
everything the same.
When we are struggling with ourmental health, we want to see
somebody that looks like us,that talks like us or is
struggling a little bit with thesame things that we did.
So can you tell us the story ofhow you become a therapist?
You know, because one thing iswhen we go through school and we
realize like we're babytherapists and we're like I
(10:03):
don't know if I'm caught up forthis, and then when we are
finally outside in the worldbecause that's another thing for
all my college students thatare hearing this what we learn
in school is a quarter of whatwe do outside.
They don't teach about theinsurance and the red tape of
the insurance and how caresometimes we want to give it,
(10:23):
but we cannot survive withgiving the care and stuff like
that.
So tell us about thattransition from you went to MFT,
wanted to save the world, andthen you went to the world and
you were like, oh my gosh.
Speaker 1 (10:38):
Yeah for sure.
So I went to grad school forclinical counseling at Point
Loma Nazarene University and,believe it or not, I was the
only self-identified male inthat cohort.
It was all women and it washard being the only male,
(10:59):
because I wanted maleperspective yeah, and male
perspective, yeah, and even eveninterning at the crisis house.
It was also hard being a maleas a therapist, because we have
to consider, a lot of women havetrauma at a crisis house.
So with me I've always had tobring, bring out the empathy
(11:20):
side of me and make sure that Icome off as very charismatic,
basically make it known that I'ma gay man and I'm gonna make a
safe.
I'm gonna create a safe groundaround you, right, and I
realized that even meeting withlike men in like a crisis house
these people are acute psychosis, like you said, and I honestly
(11:40):
was.
These guys would be like, ohwhat are you going to talk to me
about?
Or opening up is for women, orthat's something that's okay,
that's not.
I'm not a gay guy, like right,but I talk about my feelings and
I I realized, like you knowwhat that is not okay.
Like men should not be afraidto speak up or share their
emotions, and I know it soundsbad, but like whenever a man
(12:02):
would cry in session with mewhen I was developing myself as
a therapist, to me that was anaccomplishment, not because I
made them cry, but because I wasable to hit a part of them and
get them to open up and maybeshare something that they
couldn't because there was shameand there's stigma about being
an emotional, sensitive manhumanly.
So honestly, like, luckily, theinternships I had, I found my
(12:25):
niche and its connection.
My approach is.
My approach is simple.
It's making sure my person thatI'm talking to from me,
connects with me and lettingthem know this is about them,
and I like to use a somethingcalled unconditional positive
regard, no matter what you tellme, I'm going to treat it very
(12:47):
neutral.
Whether or not I agree with you, that's not about me at all.
You can tell me anything, right?
And I'm going to say okay,thank you for sharing.
Let's tell me more.
I want to know more, and Ithink people get shocked by that
, because that's how they startto feel safe with me, because
they don't seemingly react orsay, hey, I'm not going to see
that client.
And you know at the crisishouse how we can't pick our
(13:08):
clients.
No, we can't pick our clients.
We walk in, our name's on theboard yeah, like you're seeing
five people today, bye, andbecause, remember, we were
interns and they always gave usthe hardest.
Speaker 2 (13:20):
Yeah, to scare us away.
Speaker 1 (13:25):
Like if, yeah, to scare us away, like if you can
handle this, you can handleanything, yeah, and I'd be like,
oh my god, I'm not ready forthis.
But eventually they if you'reof your student and you notice
that and you're listening tothis and you're getting assigned
a tough client, I promise youit's, it's for your own good
like you're gonna learn so muchabout yourself and that
challenge right there is goingto help you realize what it is
you like about yourself as aparent.
Speaker 2 (13:46):
Yes, yes, I remember one in particular that was like.
That one was the catalyst forme to work with active duty.
Active duty picked me.
I didn't pick them per seBecause in my head I was like,
oh, I'm going to be forensics,you know criminal minds kind of
thing which, by the way, for formy students, that's just tv,
(14:12):
it's not reality what you see inthere.
But uh, it was the one that,like you say, I am always, um,
as a therapist, I am very uh,try to co-regulate with you,
meaning when, because word isconvoluted and you need to know
that somebody can handle the toe, that you're giving them right,
that they're not going to freakout with you, they're not going
to judge you, they're not goingto be scared of you.
With that said, one of my firstveterans that I had in the
(14:37):
crisis house.
It was like, because I looklike a kid, as it is, like I
will look very young.
You're a tiny, yeah.
Speaker 1 (14:43):
And I'm look very young.
You're tiny, yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:45):
And I'm only 4'11 for everybody.
That is there.
I barely make it out of, likethe scale.
But they, he said to me what alittle girl is going to teach me
about life.
One and two it was like andyou're Latina and I'm racist,
and I'm like, tell me more, I'mcurious about that.
(15:07):
And like he say all the mostmischievous things that you can
think.
But because I was not offended,because I was like there is a
reason that you feel that waytowards my people, right, so we
start talking and stuff and youknow a while he was one of my
favorite clients and, yes, inthe crisis house we know that
(15:29):
they rotate a lot becauseunfortunately, our housing
system and homelessness systemis a little broken here in
California Well, in pretty muchanywhere.
But with that I also learnedthe judgment.
Like you say, we will take um.
(15:52):
For anybody that has watchedGrey's Anatomy, it was like the
same, while we crisis, we willbe in the in the internship and
we were like, ooh, it's theclosest one, let's go see who
gets it, kind of thing Right.
Um, I was fortunate that myinternships were really really
hard, in the sense like theywill be the hard clients and for
some reason male teenagers arethe hard clients for every other
(16:12):
therapist that I was workingwith, especially if they
identify queer or they're inthat kind of navigation of like
who I am and what I am kind ofthing.
Can you tell me how yourselfnavigate that in an industry
that is sometimes verystigmatized, one and two, very
dismissive of like?
(16:34):
Mental health is not just whathappened to you, it's also the
oppression that is around you,the systems that are around you,
that even though you get thehealth and medication and the
therapy, we cannot change theuniverse for that.
So can you tell me a little bitabout your story to our clients
and to our audience that islistening, that or that young
(16:57):
teenager that is listening?
You know college students likeI'm in that middle that I don't
know.
I don't want to say anything.
I don't want to rock the boat.
I don't want to say anything.
I don't want to rock the boat.
I don't want to do anythingright now.
Speaker 1 (17:08):
So do you mean in terms of like, when you're
working with the LGBTQIA team?
Yes, okay, yeah, I think that,luckily for me, being gay, I'm
very open about it.
But for a clinician or a personwho is trying to connect with
the youth or a person whoidentifies as LGBTQIA+, it's
(17:32):
important to let them know thatyou know this is a safe space.
And in addition to a safe space, I also like to use a brave
space, and when I say bravespace, it's where I let my
clients give me feedback and Iask for it and I say what
questions did I ask you?
That you know you were that youdidn't like, because then that
gives me perspective.
(17:53):
Like I'm like, why didn't youlike that question being asked?
Right, and I think, too, is onething I personally don't like.
It is when therapists try tomake it very like, use toxic
positivity about being likealgebra tqia, like I love big
day pride, or, oh, I have gayfriends, you know, like we get
(18:13):
it, but it's not the same thing,right, right.
So I think, just justacknowledging it and knowing
that that's just not, that'sjust only a part of us, right,
it's not the whole entire, we'renot the whole entire thing.
There's more to us right andacknowledging that sometimes we
don't want to talk about thatbecause it takes a being being
being gay it's.
(18:33):
I've met other gay therapistsand we've all had different
coming out stories, differentexperiences, but one thing we
have in common is that we justwant a safe space to just talk
and just process and get tosomebody who understands us.
Speaker 2 (18:49):
Right and the part of like we just don't want to be
judged.
Speaker 1 (18:54):
Whatever that judgment looks like, we don't
want to be judged Right.
Speaker 2 (18:57):
And as therapists and coaches, we know I don't care
who you are, we all have biases,we all do.
I don't care who you are, weall have biases, we all do.
And the most important thingthat I always say this is your
green flag that I'm very animatewith my students, my clients
and the coaches that I coach isif the person that is either
(19:19):
training you, guiding you oranything like that is not going
themselves to therapy or to acoach, that is a red flag for me
, because you cannot teach mesomething that you're not
practicing yourself.
Speaker 1 (19:30):
Right.
Speaker 2 (19:31):
Kind of like you're saying if I'm giving you
feedback, I want to get thefeedback too.
Right, and I agree with thewhole.
Like that's very cute that yousay that you're X, y and Z.
You have one friend that lookslike me, talks like me, but that
doesn't mean you understandwhat it is to be me, because
even in our stories we're verydifferent.
(19:53):
So tell me now how coachingcame out of therapy for you.
Speaker 1 (19:59):
Okay.
So coaching came out of therapybecause I realized that the
word therapy is very scary,Stigmatizing.
People are like oh my gosh, Idon't need therapy.
Or like no, why would I go totherapy?
Like I'm not crazy, Right, Idon't have any problems.
So I was like how can I put atwist to this?
(20:21):
Because coaching can betherapeutic, but my coaching
isn't therapy.
No, the way that I coach is morelike it's more solution focused
, like what's the outcome?
But we're going to also exploreyour emotions through it.
We're not going to go into thetrauma work or figure out why
that teacher is making you feelthat way.
(20:42):
Instead, we're going to focuson ways to overcome that teacher
.
So therapy for me is more let'sgo back in time and coaching
for me is more like let's figureout what's going on now and
move forward.
Find you the tools that arealready inside you to make you
successful.
I always tell my clientsjokingly your skills to be
(21:04):
professionally where you want tobe.
It's like a six-pack right,everyone has a six-pack, but you
need to work out, eat healthy,and the reason I use that and
that analogy is because that'show therapy and coaching works.
You already have everything inyou, you just need someone to
help you yes, basically bring itout right and strengthen you.
It's a muscle that you basicallybring it out and strengthen you
(21:25):
.
It's a muscle that therapy andcoaching do for your mind.
Speaker 2 (21:27):
Correct and Fede.
You said that because that'sexactly what I use as an example
either for my coaches or for myclients.
No-transcript.
(21:49):
And when you get into anaccident and you lose mobility
in one of your extremities orany part of your body, you go to
physical therapy to regain whatit was once there.
So that is therapy.
Gain what it was once there, sothat is therapy.
Something happened to us thatwe lost mobility of emotions or
(22:12):
self-love, self-care, and weneed a therapist to help us to
exercise again how to do it.
Once we get there, then we goto a coach that then they can
teach us new techniques.
And they can teach us oh, youknow, this is a YNC technique to
stack.
I call it stacking skills,right?
The danger is that I alwaysprevent either clients and
(22:34):
coaches, because you can haveall the good intentions Like,
let's say, you went to a verytraumatic event and now you're
coaching about that traumaticevent and I tell them that is
transfer trauma.
That is not coaching, right, Ilove you and I care that you
care for people, but what about?
Instead of teaching them ortransferring trauma, we teach
(22:55):
people how to stay in that andmaybe ask for help if they need
to or not.
So part of being traumainformed means to a lot for a
lot of my coaches I train isplease refer out.
It's okay, Because as a coach,word of mouth is the most
important presentation card,right.
(23:16):
So you want to say save aclient the hurdle that you are
not going to be able to helpthem, at least not right now.
But, because you send them tothe right place.
They will be so grateful withyou.
Speaker 1 (23:28):
And I'm glad you bring that up because I think
that, no, I think actually Iknow that in my the beginning of
my practice I wanted all theclients right, because when
we're interning, people justthrow clients on our plate.
But when you're in your privatepractice you can be selected.
But I think what's hard too isthe ethical pieces.
(23:48):
I don't want I don't need totake on clients for a moment,
like, yeah, but that shouldn'tbe the reason why you're taking
on clients right.
And yeah, I've had, I've had totell clients, you know, we're
not a good fit, and that's sortof the consultation.
And I have had clients be like,hey, you're not a good fit for
me either, and I'm like, hey,that hurt in the beginning, it's
a girl, but I was like, oh mygod, I got rejected.
Or you know, I had to turn aclient down and I felt guilty,
(24:12):
like, I felt so bad, like, butit's, it's part of the process
and I like that.
You mentioned that, because ifyou can't take on a client,
you're doing them more of a goodby not taking them on.
Right, and also, sometherapists you know, not
everyone has that specializationin trauma-informed care, right,
even though I think it isimportant.
I think every therapist, Ithink every human should have a
(24:32):
trauma-informed approach.
Speaker 2 (24:34):
I agree, I agree, and that's why I dedicate myself to
do trainings in trauma-informedin school, at work, in law
enforcement, et cetera, etcetera.
You will think that they haveall the training, but they don't
, and also not only the training, but the history of the trauma
of the place.
What do I mean?
For example, if you work in anonprofit, one of the things
(24:59):
that nonprofits were created forit was, like you know, it was
very church oriented.
Therefore, people cannot makemoney out of nonprofits.
But now nonprofits are huge,huge, huge identities, meaning
corporations.
You're not going to have a CEOthat is going to make 3K outside
(25:21):
, making only 4K in thenonprofit, just because it's the
goodness of the heart.
They also have to live, right,and this is the the little thing
that I found very peculiar,because the difference between
coaches and therapists is thatcoaches are very uh, almost like
superstars, monetarily wise,you know they can make a lot of
money if they want to withethical ways.
(25:44):
But therapists are very lockedin certain ways.
Right, and like you say, youdon't want to take every single
client, but when you work withinsurance which, by the way, if
you haven't heard or episodethree, you should it talks about
why it's so hard working withinsurance.
As clinicians, we want to, butit's almost like you're
(26:06):
shackling yourself to not helpthis other population.
Right, and even in betweentherapists, not all of us were
specialized in the same things.
For example, in the privatepractice that I work we're seven
Out of the seven.
I am one of two that isspecializing somatic trauma
(26:26):
training.
Okay, and out of the two, onlyI the one that treats all the
you can say heart cases likecptsd, ptsd, military
chronically ill and terminallykind of like your.
I I always joke that I like thesub things, but you know,
because I was like I like, Ilike sitting in sadness too.
Speaker 1 (26:48):
I love my Lana Del Rey every now and then I love
sitting in it.
Yeah, I think it's okay andthat's what I love about therapy
too.
It's like let's sit in.
I'm not going to say like, hey,it's going to get better.
I'm like, no, you know what,let's sit in it for a couple of
minutes.
Speaker 2 (27:03):
I want to know all the feelings Right right, right,
and then I connect you back toyour body and you know, like you
say, we find this niche Mai wasutilizing pop culture, video
games and why not to do exposuretherapy and I have been well
known because of it.
But you are going to alwayshave somebody and this is for
all my baby therapists out thereand baby coaches that is going
(27:27):
to try to sell you or tell youthat this is the only way to do
things.
You know, like there is alwaysthe which therapeutic approach
is the best, or ifpsychodynamics versus
psychoanalysis, et cetera, etcetera.
Right, and in coaching, we havethe same In coaching,
unfortunately, it is true thatone day I can get up and say I'm
(27:50):
a coach, right, Because it'snot regulated whatsoever.
But that's what the regulationcomes from, the person that is
hiring the coach.
If we're hiring it out ofalmost like not a need, but
almost like I'm missingsomething and I want this person
to provide it, that's a no-no.
(28:12):
If I'm like, I like theirskills and I want to learn how
to do that, that's a differentapproach.
So can you tell us, like whenyou have people that comes to
you for coaching and you're like, ooh, you need therapy, not
coaching.
How do you navigate that?
Speaker 1 (28:28):
Well, oh my gosh, that's a good question, because
I do for coaching.
I do have clients who want totalk to me about how to be a
better leader or how to be moreof a team player, and part of me
(28:48):
is like maybe we should do sometherapy to dig into why you
don't like to open up to peopleon the team or be a team player.
But I also have to rememberthat they came to me for
coaching and I have to beclient-centered.
And the thing with coaching isthat I'm also more available.
With therapy, it's onlywhatever your insurance allows.
I'm also more available withtherapy.
It's only whatever you'reinsured to allow.
So that's a little bit more.
There's more rules to that.
(29:09):
With coaching, I allow mycoaching clients to call me.
We can email back and forthtext because that's part of our
plan.
Like you know, like, hey, I'mgoing to go into a meeting.
I'm very anxious.
Can you help, like, prep me upfor it?
Yeah, let's get on a call realquick and let's go through that.
But, um, yeah, I think that.
(29:29):
Sorry, I lost my train ofthought because I get so
passionate about the coachingpart.
Okay, so when I client comes tome, I don't, I don't, I don't
choose for them, I don't, I justthey came to me for a specific
thing and it's not until thecoaching that you know we just
go that route.
Okay, yeah.
Speaker 2 (29:49):
Yeah, I with my coach .
So I train the coaches.
I don't train the people, Itrain the coaches.
Okay, and with them.
You know, I have coaches foreverything from soundbats to
crystals to roots, to likeactually shadow work, and I
always told all of them you haveto respect what the client is
(30:10):
coming for you.
But at the same time, if yousee the red flags that maybe
they're not stable enough forthis or this, and that because
the difference, the hugedifference between coaching and
therapy, I feel is like one timesomebody joked with me because
I once hired a coach and theysaid, oh, you hired a
(30:30):
cheerleader.
I'm like, yeah, I did, Itotally did because I need it,
like I need a cheerleader totell me I'm doing it okay,
because my therapist cannot dothat.
My therapist cannot be mycheerleader because we're
neutral.
And that is the part that is themost telling one, which one you
can take, for example, as atherapist, if I see you in the
street, I don't recognize you.
(30:51):
I love you and I want the bestfor you, but I cannot say hi to
you ever, right?
If I go to your birthdayparties or whatever.
You know, graduation a lot ofthem, they want to go to
graduations because you knowthey're so important and stuff.
I cannot because, believe it ornot, I carry with me a lot of
the darkness that has beenpassed right, it has been put on
(31:14):
me.
So I don't want to be in themost happy places of your life
because that's not verytherapeutic for you.
Speaker 1 (31:21):
You can run into people that they've told you
things about, mm-hmm, and thennot that we, but we have an
image of that person in ourminds, right, like oh, that's
who you talk to.
Speaker 2 (31:32):
Right, right, you're like, ah, like there is this
TikTok that I always laughbecause all my clients say do
you want to see a picture?
Like no Can say show me thepicture of the person that
you're talking.
Nope, nope.
But as a coach, my coach is myfriend now, like years past.
Right, I have gone to theirweddings, I have gone to their
baby showers.
You know that is like adifferent relationship because
(31:53):
it becomes more professional,slash, coworking, right.
So I think that is the biggestdifference that when you share a
lot of vulnerability and pain,if it's pain that you will not
share with pretty much everybody, then it's not pain that needs
to be shared with a coach, butit is pain that can be shared
(32:14):
with a therapist and you canuntangle whatever is in there
With coaches.
I believe that are the bestchill leaders that are the best
to hone down one skill.
Believe that are the best chillleaders that are the best to
hone down one skill like.
The word coach means right, likein a gym or in a career of
obstacles.
They're going to pressure you alittle bit.
Sometimes they're going to tellyou you're not doing okay and
(32:36):
they're going to give you theirperspective and maybe you don't
want to like it, but they alwaysare.
With kind regard.
Coaching, no.
Therapy should hurt.
They should not be harmful,they should not be making you
feel worse.
Um, granted, therapy is morelike a root canal versus
coaching is like braces, that'slike how I put it I feel like
(32:59):
with therapy too, we have toremember that it can be a little
hard in the beginning.
Speaker 1 (33:02):
If you have to unpack a lot of stuff, a lot of stuff
comes up even my, my own therapystill like and that's when the
work starts to happen.
Speaker 2 (33:10):
Right, right and I, but it never has to
re-traumatize you or hurt toomuch, exactly.
Like that's what I say, like Iwrote kind of it's not pleasant
and like have you got anytrouble?
Because I know in the therapysphere they have kind of like
(33:33):
not such a good eyes for coachesor they're always like kind of
like psychiatrists andtherapists it's the same kind of
like stay in your lane, don'tdo this.
But I was like can wecollaborate instead of like
fighting for people or who'sbetter or who's not?
Have you encountered that kindof I don't want to say
discrimination, but kind ofanimosity between the two
(33:56):
careers?
Speaker 1 (33:58):
Well, I'll be honest with me personally, I've come
across like I've met people whoare life coaches, who specialize
in trauma, and I'll oftentimesbe like oh, oh, like where did
you go to school?
Like where did you getcertified?
And they'll tell me where theywent.
And you know, this is just myperspective.
It's really I don't think thata certification can train
(34:19):
somebody for trauma work, um,and also because coaching can be
done anywhere, like I can be incalifornia and you can be in,
like in Florida or New York, andI think, too, is with therapy,
it's like we have to know whereour clients are so that we can
access any crisis interventionsand coaching.
(34:40):
I think that coaches aren'taware of their client
surroundings, even if it'svirtual.
Like it's really important toknow where your clients at,
where they live, and do a littleresearch, like where does my
client live, where's the nearesthospital, and know, like, who
to call, like my name, my name,my name, my name or all that
stuff.
Speaker 2 (34:57):
Right, yeah, and it is a for people that doesn't
know.
If you are a life coach, youget what 60, 60 to 90 days
training and different things.
Mostly it's marketing.
But there is a differencebetween being trauma-informed
and trauma-trained.
Trauma-trained takes years anda lot of packing.
(35:18):
Trauma-awareness ortrauma-informed means oh, I know
about trauma and I cannothandle it, so I know how to
transfer it to another identityor another person.
That is being trauma informedand that is something that a lot
of coaches I used to like, notlike life coaches.
I went to a very famous eventwith a very famous coach that
(35:42):
will put the person in, you know, in the stage and say tell me
about your childhood trauma andblah, blah, blah.
And the person opened up becausethey trust this person and
you're all pumped out with likeenergy and everybody's loving
you in the moment.
And the person opened up a verydark story of abuse and why not
?
And then the show was over andI was sitting down in the hotel
(36:06):
bar and I saw the person and theperson was contemplating like
their their drink, like justmessing around with it, and I
was like, oh no, I know that, Iknow that, shake it off the
drink.
So I just came around and waslike how, how many years have
you been sober?
And the person looked at melike 20.
(36:27):
But today I, just like you, thecoach opens so much and they
rip him apart.
That left him bleedingafterwards and that is why you
don't know trauma, when youdon't know what is trauma
informed.
When you open, you thought thatwas just a little little thing
(36:47):
and you just undone a person'suh, the most traumatic thing
it's important to know how toclose, like when you unpack a
can of worms.
It's important to know how toput it back in and seal it back
in and make sure that they'reokay right and as clients and
people that are searching forcoaches, because you know, uh,
if you go with therapists, uh,if they're private paid yes,
(37:10):
they're private paid.
Yes, they're expensive, but thereason that they're expensive
is because they have to pay forclinics and all the other stuff.
But if you pay for a coach, Ijust want you to be aware of the
things.
You can always say no, thankyou, and you can always cut it
off whenever.
The same with therapists If youdon't like them, you can go
find out somebody.
(37:30):
I know it's hard, but I promiseyou there is Latino therapists,
there is male therapists, thereis queer therapists.
It takes a little digging, butthere is.
And there is the same withcoaches.
But one of my favorite coachesshe as a client somebody came
and told her start dumping, youknow things on her, and she was
(37:52):
like no, I don't do that.
She was like very good in herboundaries.
So I'm curious how do youprotect your boundaries?
Because it can be a blurry linewhen you're a therapist and a
coach and you're like but I knowhow to do this, but no, that is
not the role that I have here.
So how do you handle thatblurry line of helping your
(38:15):
clients?
Speaker 1 (38:17):
I make it known that you know there's emails you can
email me.
There's like hours that I won'treply.
I think that I mean no socialmedia can have me, Hence why I
haven't started my.
I don't have my.
I took off my personal socialmedia.
I deactivated it because I wasgetting clients who were
following me or who wererequesting me, and then they
(38:38):
would ask me in session like,hey, I thought I requested you
and I'd say I know, but I'm alsovery.
My approach is honesty.
I'm very honest.
I don't beat around the bush.
I'm like, yeah, I know you have, and so I wanted to talk about
that today.
Or, you know, you brought, youbrought something up that's been
on my mind as well.
Let's talk about it.
And I let him know, like as atherapist and as a client, we're
(38:58):
not friends like, right, youknow it sounds it sounds mean,
but well, we learn this in lawand ethics and take exams and
and we study it and at the endof the day, like, yeah, I know
so much about you, that'sone-sided, yeah, that it
wouldn't be fair for us to befriends.
Not because I don't want to beyour friend, but because I know
(39:19):
everything about you, becauseyou trust me, right in your mind
, I'm your friend, right,because you you've.
You haven't told anybody thesethings and in a sense, it's been
a one-sided trauma bonding,right, and I've been here, I've
been nothing but supportive toyou, right, and it's not fair to
be friends with somebody likethat.
It really isn't, because it'sonly been your side, right and
(39:39):
and it's just not not okay, andthen, with boundaries too, it's
I, just as things come up, wejust have the conversations like
the hard conversation thatthey're probably not used to
having, right right and and it'salso to remind uh people, uh,
that when, for example, theconsent form that we give in the
morning in the beginning of anyuh session mine says that too,
(40:03):
it actually has my social mediaand stuff in there.
Speaker 2 (40:07):
It says you cannot follow me.
Like it says in there, if youfollow me, I'm gonna block you.
Uh, not because I don't loveyou, not because I don't care
for you, but it's a powerdynamic.
That is not okay.
Yeah, like you say, I know somuch and that it will be too
powerful and too nerve-wrackingthat you will feel like, um,
(40:27):
because I have one client onceasked me oh, are you like the
TikTokers that are going to talkabout your clients in the thing
?
Like no, but I can see why youwill think that no, if they do
that, please report it orsomething.
But no, the reason is becauselife is going to life and a lot
(40:47):
of social media.
What they are selling you isthe person, life.
So when we are one sided,that's the magic of it, right?
You don't know much about me,so you can put a lot of things.
Speaker 1 (41:00):
Right.
Speaker 2 (41:02):
Because I'm a blank state right.
Once you start knowing moreabout me, then you start your
brain is a brain and it's goingto start doing biases and say
they are going to judge me.
I should not say this becauseit can offend them.
So you start puttingpredisposed notions because you
know me, that's why we're with,that's why, when we were in high
school, we do dumb things withfriends, because we do it,
(41:25):
because they influence all thefriends.
So to keep it a blank slate iswhy we don't become friends or
anything like that.
Now, in coaching, it's adifferent story, because I'm
teaching you actually a skill,I'm teaching you a performance,
if you will Like.
For example, the coaches Icoach about trauma-informed.
(41:45):
I show them scenarios and howto pass people and also I show
them how they're gonna gettriggered, because that's
another thing that coaches don'trealize that when you work with
people, you're gonna gettriggered.
Yes, people is gonna people andyou, if you don't do the
internal work, it's gonna show.
Speaker 1 (42:02):
So for our audience, what it will be like three
little nuggets of uh informationthat you will give them, either
for therapy, to finding a maletherapist, or coaching so people
are looking for these thingslike, well, I mean, there's a,
(42:22):
there's alma, it's a gooddirectory, that's where you can
find me on, and there's a, andyou can filter it out based on
gender, culture, identity, allthat stuff.
I think it has to do with yourniche, like what you're actually
looking for, like your specific, like what you specifically
want to work on, because onecoach isn't going to know
everything, so it's important toknow what you can help with.
(42:45):
And if you don't, consult,consultations are free, and they
should be free.
Yeah, and if you're out thereand you're a therapist and you
charge for them sorry, notputting you down, but
consultations should be free.
They're 15 minutes and that'sthat's when you start to do your
shopping, like it's okay tointerview multiple people until
you find that one person,because it's an investment in
(43:06):
yourself and we're not cheapright, we're not cheap, and the
reason that we're not cheap isbecause we spend a lot of
student loans on it if I, if Itold people how much I owe I
tell them I owe two houses incalifornia to give you a
perspective, but um, but I alsotold them uh, choose that right,
(43:30):
even with my students.
Speaker 2 (43:31):
So I coach a lot of students in career and goal
setting and why not?
And one of the things I coachthem is the investment that
you're going to make in school.
Make sure that the job thatyou're going to get is going to
pay at least a quarter of thatinvestment.
Because, for example, if you gofor a career that is going to
(43:52):
cost you $90,000 and you're onlygoing to make $40,000 a year,
the math doesn't matter right,and passion can get killed with
poverty too.
So I coach in about how tochoose what resonates with you,
but also what is good for you.
(44:12):
My three nuggets for people isthe same Consultation is free
because it's 15 minutes.
It should not be charged,either for coaches or therapists
.
Always, always, always getreferrals, meaning ask people
that has gone through thisprogram, or ask people it has
gone through this coach, not thepeople that they put in their
(44:33):
Instagrams and stuff like that,because, like any ad, you know,
we can pay people to do that.
But if it's for word of mouth,it's golden, because you know if
I know Susanita that went to dothis.
I trust her, so I'm going to go.
But also understand that you'redealing with a human being and
because you're dealing with ahuman being, sometimes you don't
(44:54):
buy it and it's okay to say Idon't want to.
So when you have coaches thatmake you sign contracts for a
year or six months, no, becauseyou know I always say 90 days,
even in a car.
Before you return a car that isreal expensive, you have 90
days before you can return it.
So the same with therapists youcan drop them anytime that you
(45:17):
want.
Speaker 1 (45:17):
And I wanted to mention one more thing.
So a nugget I have, too, istherapists don't, ethically, we
cannot get testimonials.
Someone can't be like, oh,sergio and Dr Roldan are the
best therapists out there, likewe highly recommend, right, we
can't do that.
That's not fair, because it'slike saying like, oh, my surgeon
is the best surgeon I highlyrecommend when something happens
(45:40):
to you.
And oh my gosh, right, butwe're coaching.
That's different.
They can promote, like you said, they can promote six month
contracts.
They can promote that they'rethe best, that they, that they
will help you get your resultsin like three months or whatever
.
So that's a difference too ishow we advertise, because we
can't, we go on a directory,that's it, right, right.
Speaker 2 (46:01):
And we go by specialities and stuff like that
.
And uh, also, don't leave gelpreviews for your therapist.
They don't, we don't read itand like we don't do use them or
anything like that.
Like Serge would say,therapists wear like a ghost.
Speaker 1 (46:18):
Really, that's what it is.
Speaker 2 (46:19):
Yeah, for your protection, but coaches, that's
a different story.
In coaches, you do have a lotof advertisement and a lot of
coaches, unfortunately.
Unfortunately, they're sellingyou a lifestyle, which that
should be your red flag.
If somebody's promised you, oh,in three months you're gonna
have my life, no, maybe you'regonna have the tools to get
(46:42):
there, that's totally okay, butyou will not have their life,
and I'm not.
I have a beef, if you will,with a positive toxicity,
because sometimes life sucks andyou just have to be sitting
down in that.
But to wrap it up, what it willbe one green flag to be like if
(47:08):
I'm a client and I want to beyour client, client, what it
will be a green flag, your idealclient, for you I.
Speaker 1 (47:17):
I want somebody who wants to come and do the work.
I want somebody who is ready tochallenge themselves and and be
open and just share as much asthey're able, as much as they're
willing to share, but at theend of it, I want somebody who
thinks that I am the goodtherapist for them because, at
the end of the day, I'm your,I'm, you're my boss.
(47:40):
Yeah, my client is.
I like to perceive it that way.
My client is my boss and I andI listened to them and it's up
to them on how the therapy goesRight.
And I just want somebody whofeels a connection with me
Because even in my directory.
I mentioned that for me is, ifthere's not a vibe between us,
like if there's no chemistry,then you know, you'll know right
away.
(48:00):
Right, you'll know there'schemistry and I make sure that
people know.
Like you know, this is reallyimportant and if you don't
connect with me, it's okay.
Speaker 2 (48:12):
Yeah, really important, and if you don't
connect with me, it's okay, yeah, right, yeah, and my for me.
I will say one of the in thatconnection.
Like you say, yeah, if youdon't connect with your
therapist, it's okay to saythank you, but no, thank you we.
We don't get, but hurt we, we.
Speaker 1 (48:22):
You don't have our feelings I've had a client send
me a long paragraph about how,because they didn't move forward
with me, they sent me a wholeparagraph through email saying
how they felt bad and everythingand all I said was like hey,
it's okay.
Speaker 2 (48:39):
Right.
Speaker 1 (48:40):
And that's all I said .
I should have written more, butI'm like I didn't really.
I didn't want to.
Yeah, I just reassured them.
Like it's okay, like it's notRight.
Speaker 2 (48:45):
Right, it was like it's okay, Like it's not Right,
right, and I was like that is agood thing to explore with your
next therapist.
Speaker 1 (48:50):
And it's important to say that to clients too Like,
hey, if you don't move forwardwith me, just preface the
conversation during theconsultation and say hey, if you
don't move forward with me, nohard feelings at all.
This is part of the role orpart of my job Right Part of
this experience and journey forI asked mine by the third
session.
Speaker 2 (49:07):
So how are we doing?
Are we okay?
Are we?
Do you want to try differenttherapists?
And even that's the other thing, I don't keep clients forever
either, like you know.
Max a year Well, depends on thetrauma but mostly a year and
after that was like you need adifferent type of therapist
(49:28):
because I am the one that istaking you out of the thick.
But I take you to a level andonce you're in that level, I
send you out Right, andsometimes clients or even in
coaching, they're like but Idon't want to leave.
I'm like no, you have to.
It's like go fly.
Speaker 1 (49:44):
And I'll be honest, that's been hard for me with a
few people because they look sosad, like why are you firing me?
Or yeah, I'm like no, I feellike I.
I said I sense growth like youand I do I.
What I do, too, is I doassessments, I measure the
depression, anxiety and if Inotice it going down, I'm like,
(50:05):
hey, we're both doing an amazingjob together.
You don't need me as muchanymore.
Right, going like once, likeevery week, to twice a month, to
once a month, to maybe four orsomething my um.
Speaker 2 (50:19):
I always told them you are the car and the gps
after a while driving with me.
Speaker 1 (50:26):
You need an update yes, and that update yeah,
because you do grow with yourclients.
You look forward to that.
I mean, I mean, even though,like we are their therapists, we
still look forward to meetingwith them right, we're humans
and we get connected to them.
Speaker 2 (50:41):
Um and for the coaching industry, uh, what kind
of coaching do you do, do?
Do you do business coaching,life coaching?
Speaker 1 (50:50):
So what I specialize in is more blending personal and
professional together, a littlebit of academic and figuring
out how you can move forward andyou're stuck in your career.
Maybe there's something at yourjob that you are struggling
with, maybe your evaluation atwork didn't go so well and you
bring it to our coaching session.
(51:10):
We go over and figure out how wecan get those merits up and we
talk about it, you know, andthat's when the therapy comes in
, a little bit like hey, how areyou feeling about scoring this
level?
Right?
Most people I keep it.
I don't get too deep becausewe're not going back in time.
But then we explore that and wemove forward and things come
out like they'll be.
Like maybe I don't go to workon time, I don't really care,
(51:31):
I'm doing the silent quitting orI'm kind of looking for other
jobs.
I'm like, yeah, so that stuff'sbeing noticed right.
So, yeah, I mean, that's that's.
The coaching is more specificon that and more outcome driven.
Okay, we measure it so there'sdefinitely measuring that we're
doing okay.
Speaker 2 (51:47):
So if you are out there, even transitioning jobs,
or you just want to become thebest CEO of your own life, not
of their job, come and seeSergio Sergio, where they can
find you if they want to have acoach like you.
Speaker 1 (52:05):
Yeah, they can go to theracoachingnet and they can
also look me up on LinkedIn.
Sergio Soto Alvarez, You'll beable to find me.
Speaker 2 (52:14):
Perfect, and I will put all those links in the notes
of the program.
So, for everybody out there,just remember take a little sip
of water, hot cocoa that warmsyour heart, and just sit on it
for a minute.
That no matter what, everythingwill pass, good or bad, until
next time.
Thank you so much.
Thank you, sergio.
Speaker 1 (52:35):
Thank you for having me.
Speaker 2 (52:37):
And let me stop it as we conclude today's episode.
Take a moment to reflect.
Be proud of the journey, forevery step that brings you
closer to who you truly are.
Embrace the kindness towardsyourself as you did to each one
(52:58):
of our guests.
Honor the bravery in youractions and celebrate the
importance of mental wellnesswith us.
And remember it's an exercisethat we practice daily.
Continue to grow and flourish,knowing that we are in this
training for our mental wellnesstogether.
(53:18):
We are so proud to have you aspart of our community at our
Oasis Community Podcast for moreinspiring conversations,
valuable resources and supportedcontent, including journals,
worksheets and content inSpanish.
Exciting things are in thehorizon.
(53:40):
Our Oasis Community break roomsare coming soon to grab tools
and take a break for your mentalhealth.
Also, we are featuring oursix-month training ethical
mental health coaching programdesigned for new and experienced
coaches, as well as holisticand healing professionals.
Enroll to create a safe andtransformative experience to
(54:04):
your clients.
Links in the bio.
Until next time, take care,stay connected and welcome to
our Oasis community.
Hi, my name is Sergio Soto Alvarez.
I am a licensed marriage andfamily therapist and I also
possess an MBA.
I am the founder of TheraCoach,where, I believe that you know,
we have the choice of pickingtherapy or coaching.
So I developed this conceptwhere if people want to get
therapy, they can come to me anduse their insurance, or if
(00:20):
therapy isn't what you'reseeking, but more professional
development around your career,academics, then coaching is also
an option at TheraCoach.
And if you want to know moreabout TheraCoach, feel free to
visit my website attheracoachingnet, and you can
also find me on LinkedIn bysearching my name, Sergio Soto
Alvarez, and you'll find a blurbof what TheraCoach is, along
(00:41):
with other services that Iprovide.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
Thank you coaches, along with other services that I
provide.
Thank you, hello, beautifulsouls, and welcome to Oroasis
Community Podcast.
I am Dr Roldan, your host.
I am a doctor in clinicalpsychology, a BIPOC therapist
professor and a mindful somaticcoach.
While I am a therapist,remember I'm not your therapist.
(01:08):
This podcast is not a substitutefor professional mental health
care, but we have resources inour website and Instagram to
support you in that search.
Join us for a cozy, feltconversation about mental health
, personal growth andmindfulness.
We explore tools to care foryour mind, your body and your
soul.
Check the footnotes fordisclaimer, trigger warnings and
(01:30):
additional resources for eachone of the episodes.
So grab your favorite cup oftea, coffee or hot chocolate,
wrap yourself in a warm blanketand find a coffee spot here with
us to be kind to be brave, loudand strong in your search of
(01:51):
mental health wellness.
Welcome to your Oasis, welcomeback everybody.
Today I have a delight for you.
So grab your cup of coffee, teaor any beverage that fuzzies
your soul, because I have a goodfriend and also a colleague and
a man that I admire foreverything that he does, because
(02:14):
he's not only kind and caresfor the community, he also cares
for the advancement of ourcommunities, and he cares about
mental health in men.
So for no further ado, we haveSergio.
Sergio is an LMFT and also acoach, correct Correct.
So welcome to our Oasiscommunity, sergio.
Speaker 1 (02:37):
Thank you, dr Roland.
I'm so happy to be here.
It took a while for me and youto connect, but I'm glad that
you're able to have me on ourOasis Community Podcast.
So thank you, thank you.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
Thank you.
I know the schedules are crazyfor all of us and the reason why
I invite Sergio to the many,many times we have trying to
schedule for many, many months.
So you guys are for a delight,but the reason is because he has
the concept that I love, thatis, having coaching and therapy,
not a combination, but grabwhat you need, which is the
(03:11):
slogan that we have in our oasis.
Mental health is for everybody,but therapy is not accessible
for everybody, so sometimes weneed a coach, and Sergio is
going to tell us his story abouthow he started this movement,
why did he start this movement,and his story about what is his
mental health approach andcoaching approach.
(03:33):
All right?
Speaker 1 (03:35):
Well, thank you, dr Goldman.
So yeah, let me let me go backin time a little bit.
I grew up in a very smallconservative town by the name of
Watsonville, california, superMexican tradition.
And you know, as I grew up, Irealized that I was a very shy
kid.
Even in grad school I learnedthat I wouldn't even like speak
(04:00):
up or raise my hand, and a lotof it was because I was
embarrassed and shy and, I guessyou can say, a little insecure
about what I was going to saybecause I was just not prepared
for it.
So you know, I went to gradschool to become a therapist and
through that I realized that Iwas still shy to speak I'm more
(04:23):
of a one-on-one person but Ialso realized that I wanted to
move up in my career.
I didn't want to shy to speakI'm more of a one-on-one person
but I also realized that Iwanted to move up in my career.
I didn't want to just dotherapy, I wanted to get into
management and lead a team.
So then I decided to get my MBAand actually challenge myself.
And when I was applying for MBAsI was looking for programs that
were in person and that wouldchallenge me to public speak and
(04:45):
I did it.
I went to san marcos csu, sanmarcos got my nba and this came
to me during covid.
I was like I need to dosomething to challenge myself.
You know, we're in lockdown,I'm bored and a lot of me wanted
to challenge things andlearning things, so I won't I'm
not gonna lie, like getting mynba was probably the hardest
(05:05):
yeah thing I've done, notbecause of the math, because I
had to stand in front of a lotof people who just seem very
confident and you know, I alwaysfound myself being the person
in our group, our team groups,being like hey, like what's
going on?
Like like why are you soanxious?
Or you know, like, like what'sgoing on with your body?
Like why can't we turn thatanxiety into excitement instead
(05:27):
of like nervousness?
So through my grad schoolprogram, I was able to create
their coach, because there was aproject where it was
essentially create your ownprogram or business.
And I thought you know whatother, what better way to
develop my own business than inthis actual program?
(05:49):
So that's what I did.
I developed their coach and Icall it their coach because it's
basically therapy and coaching.
Right, and I honestly know thata lot of people don't want to
go to therapy.
There's still a stigma withwanting therapy and some people
want to focus more on theiracademics, professional
development and also coachingdoesn't require insurance.
(06:10):
Some people don't haveinsurance so they can opt out of
that and go to coaching, whichcan kind of be the same thing.
But at TheraCoach I do takeinsurance and also coaching is
typically out of pocket.
But I developed this for me.
Th coach was for me and it'sfunny because I always tell my
partner when he's telling methings and he's like do it this
(06:30):
way, like speak up or go againstthe grain with your boss, I'm
like I know, but that's nottheir coach, because my
philosophy is also bringingheart into every meeting I go to
.
It's not just about the mindfor me.
That's why I blended mybusiness and psychology together
, because I believe that you canbring vulnerability and empathy
(06:50):
into a business meeting,because people think that it's
weakness.
It really isn't.
It's so much more work to bevulnerable and weak, especially
in mental health, and luckily,my professional development has
led me to, aside from leadingbeing the founder of Theracoch,
I'm also the director of socialservices at a nonprofit here in
(07:12):
San Diego and I overseebehavioral health clinics and I
work alongside amazing people,and I always keep in mind that
these people are also people.
They're human, they havefeelings, emotions, and that's
where I find that balance.
Speaker 2 (07:27):
Right, right and Sergio and I we met once upon a
time when we were in ourinternships.
As my audience know, I startedin forensics and then nonprofits
, and when I met Sergio, we werein highway houses or safe
houses.
Speaker 1 (07:45):
Yeah, we were at the crisis houses.
Yeah, we were in the crisis.
That was so long ago.
Speaker 2 (07:50):
We were super babies and Sergio was very quiet but he
was such a gentle force.
When you go into these crisishouses you get a little bit of
everything A little bit ofaddiction, a little bit of
psychosis, a little bit ofeverything a little bit of
addiction, a little bit ofpsychosis, a little bit of like
I'm just trying to find a newplace to move and he will come.
(08:12):
Everybody, everybody.
And of course I was like themore talkative one, I was the
one that I liked they solved thecases.
But like him, I noticed that inour communities, in the Latino
communities, men are neglectedmostly a lot of the time.
I mean, it's hard enough forwomen to get help in our
(08:33):
communities.
So we go with la comadre, withthe padrecito, with maybe el
curandero.
We go with everything elseexcept somebody that is a little
bit trained in trauma, informed, or is a therapist, right, and
like you, I create Oasis Academybecause I saw that.
I saw how our community will gowith coaches a lot, and there
(08:57):
is good coaches and there isquestionable coaches.
Right, like in therapy, thereis great therapists and there is
therapists that they should notdo this to either, right, so
there is always something.
And with that I went inconsulting in my as in law
enforcement and first respondersright In the active duty.
That's where I go and do a lotof these vulnerably workshops.
(09:22):
But I want to touch base withyou about how it was being a
male in this environment Because, you know, as it is, there is
certain careers that they alwaysplace, unfortunately, in that
gender.
Right Like teachers are female.
Kindergarten teachers should befemale when in reality it
should be everything right,because kids need to see
(09:42):
everything the same.
When we are struggling with ourmental health, we want to see
somebody that looks like us,that talks like us or is
struggling a little bit with thesame things that we did.
So can you tell us the story ofhow you become a therapist?
You know, because one thing iswhen we go through school and we
realize like we're babytherapists and we're like I
(10:03):
don't know if I'm caught up forthis, and then when we are
finally outside in the worldbecause that's another thing for
all my college students thatare hearing this what we learn
in school is a quarter of whatwe do outside.
They don't teach about theinsurance and the red tape of
the insurance and how caresometimes we want to give it,
(10:23):
but we cannot survive withgiving the care and stuff like
that.
So tell us about thattransition from you went to MFT,
wanted to save the world, andthen you went to the world and
you were like, oh my gosh.
Speaker 1 (10:38):
Yeah for sure.
So I went to grad school forclinical counseling at Point
Loma Nazarene University and,believe it or not, I was the
only self-identified male inthat cohort.
It was all women and it washard being the only male,
(10:59):
because I wanted maleperspective yeah, and male
perspective, yeah, and even eveninterning at the crisis house.
It was also hard being a maleas a therapist, because we have
to consider, a lot of women havetrauma at a crisis house.
So with me I've always had tobring, bring out the empathy
(11:20):
side of me and make sure that Icome off as very charismatic,
basically make it known that I'ma gay man and I'm gonna make a
safe.
I'm gonna create a safe groundaround you, right, and I
realized that even meeting withlike men in like a crisis house
these people are acute psychosis, like you said, and I honestly
(11:40):
was.
These guys would be like, ohwhat are you going to talk to me
about?
Or opening up is for women, orthat's something that's okay,
that's not.
I'm not a gay guy, like right,but I talk about my feelings and
I I realized, like you knowwhat that is not okay.
Like men should not be afraidto speak up or share their
emotions, and I know it soundsbad, but like whenever a man
(12:02):
would cry in session with mewhen I was developing myself as
a therapist, to me that was anaccomplishment, not because I
made them cry, but because I wasable to hit a part of them and
get them to open up and maybeshare something that they
couldn't because there was shameand there's stigma about being
an emotional, sensitive manhumanly.
So honestly, like, luckily, theinternships I had, I found my
(12:25):
niche and its connection.
My approach is.
My approach is simple.
It's making sure my person thatI'm talking to from me,
connects with me and lettingthem know this is about them,
and I like to use a somethingcalled unconditional positive
regard, no matter what you tellme, I'm going to treat it very
(12:47):
neutral.
Whether or not I agree with you, that's not about me at all.
You can tell me anything, right?
And I'm going to say okay,thank you for sharing.
Let's tell me more.
I want to know more, and Ithink people get shocked by that
, because that's how they startto feel safe with me, because
they don't seemingly react orsay, hey, I'm not going to see
that client.
And you know at the crisishouse how we can't pick our
(13:08):
clients.
No, we can't pick our clients.
We walk in, our name's on theboard yeah, like you're seeing
five people today, bye, andbecause, remember, we were
interns and they always gave usthe hardest.
Speaker 2 (13:20):
Yeah, to scare us away.
Speaker 1 (13:25):
Like if, yeah, to scare us away, like if you can
handle this, you can handleanything, yeah, and I'd be like,
oh my god, I'm not ready forthis.
But eventually they if you'reof your student and you notice
that and you're listening tothis and you're getting assigned
a tough client, I promise youit's, it's for your own good
like you're gonna learn so muchabout yourself and that
challenge right there is goingto help you realize what it is
you like about yourself as aparent.
Speaker 2 (13:46):
Yes, yes, I remember one in particular that was like.
That one was the catalyst forme to work with active duty.
Active duty picked me.
I didn't pick them per seBecause in my head I was like,
oh, I'm going to be forensics,you know criminal minds kind of
thing which, by the way, for formy students, that's just tv,
(14:12):
it's not reality what you see inthere.
But uh, it was the one that,like you say, I am always, um,
as a therapist, I am very uh,try to co-regulate with you,
meaning when, because word isconvoluted and you need to know
that somebody can handle the toe, that you're giving them right,
that they're not going to freakout with you, they're not going
to judge you, they're not goingto be scared of you.
With that said, one of my firstveterans that I had in the
(14:37):
crisis house.
It was like, because I looklike a kid, as it is, like I
will look very young.
You're a tiny, yeah.
Speaker 1 (14:43):
And I'm look very young.
You're tiny, yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:45):
And I'm only 4'11 for everybody.
That is there.
I barely make it out of, likethe scale.
But they, he said to me what alittle girl is going to teach me
about life.
One and two it was like andyou're Latina and I'm racist,
and I'm like, tell me more, I'mcurious about that.
(15:07):
And like he say all the mostmischievous things that you can
think.
But because I was not offended,because I was like there is a
reason that you feel that waytowards my people, right, so we
start talking and stuff and youknow a while he was one of my
favorite clients and, yes, inthe crisis house we know that
(15:29):
they rotate a lot becauseunfortunately, our housing
system and homelessness systemis a little broken here in
California Well, in pretty muchanywhere.
But with that I also learnedthe judgment.
Like you say, we will take um.
(15:52):
For anybody that has watchedGrey's Anatomy, it was like the
same, while we crisis, we willbe in the in the internship and
we were like, ooh, it's theclosest one, let's go see who
gets it, kind of thing Right.
Um, I was fortunate that myinternships were really really
hard, in the sense like theywill be the hard clients and for
some reason male teenagers arethe hard clients for every other
(16:12):
therapist that I was workingwith, especially if they
identify queer or they're inthat kind of navigation of like
who I am and what I am kind ofthing.
Can you tell me how yourselfnavigate that in an industry
that is sometimes verystigmatized, one and two, very
dismissive of like?
(16:34):
Mental health is not just whathappened to you, it's also the
oppression that is around you,the systems that are around you,
that even though you get thehealth and medication and the
therapy, we cannot change theuniverse for that.
So can you tell me a little bitabout your story to our clients
and to our audience that islistening, that or that young
(16:57):
teenager that is listening?
You know college students likeI'm in that middle that I don't
know.
I don't want to say anything.
I don't want to rock the boat.
I don't want to say anything.
I don't want to rock the boat.
I don't want to do anythingright now.
Speaker 1 (17:08):
So do you mean in terms of like, when you're
working with the LGBTQIA team?
Yes, okay, yeah, I think that,luckily for me, being gay, I'm
very open about it.
But for a clinician or a personwho is trying to connect with
the youth or a person whoidentifies as LGBTQIA+, it's
(17:32):
important to let them know thatyou know this is a safe space.
And in addition to a safe space, I also like to use a brave
space, and when I say bravespace, it's where I let my
clients give me feedback and Iask for it and I say what
questions did I ask you?
That you know you were that youdidn't like, because then that
gives me perspective.
(17:53):
Like I'm like, why didn't youlike that question being asked?
Right, and I think, too, is onething I personally don't like.
It is when therapists try tomake it very like, use toxic
positivity about being likealgebra tqia, like I love big
day pride, or, oh, I have gayfriends, you know, like we get
(18:13):
it, but it's not the same thing,right, right.
So I think, just justacknowledging it and knowing
that that's just not, that'sjust only a part of us, right,
it's not the whole entire, we'renot the whole entire thing.
There's more to us right andacknowledging that sometimes we
don't want to talk about thatbecause it takes a being being
being gay it's.
(18:33):
I've met other gay therapistsand we've all had different
coming out stories, differentexperiences, but one thing we
have in common is that we justwant a safe space to just talk
and just process and get tosomebody who understands us.
Speaker 2 (18:49):
Right and the part of like we just don't want to be
judged.
Speaker 1 (18:54):
Whatever that judgment looks like, we don't
want to be judged Right.
Speaker 2 (18:57):
And as therapists and coaches, we know I don't care
who you are, we all have biases,we all do.
I don't care who you are, weall have biases, we all do.
And the most important thingthat I always say this is your
green flag that I'm very animatewith my students, my clients
and the coaches that I coach isif the person that is either
(19:19):
training you, guiding you oranything like that is not going
themselves to therapy or to acoach, that is a red flag for me
, because you cannot teach mesomething that you're not
practicing yourself.
Speaker 1 (19:30):
Right.
Speaker 2 (19:31):
Kind of like you're saying if I'm giving you
feedback, I want to get thefeedback too.
Right, and I agree with thewhole.
Like that's very cute that yousay that you're X, y and Z.
You have one friend that lookslike me, talks like me, but that
doesn't mean you understandwhat it is to be me, because
even in our stories we're verydifferent.
(19:53):
So tell me now how coachingcame out of therapy for you.
Speaker 1 (19:59):
Okay.
So coaching came out of therapybecause I realized that the
word therapy is very scary,Stigmatizing.
People are like oh my gosh, Idon't need therapy.
Or like no, why would I go totherapy?
Like I'm not crazy, Right, Idon't have any problems.
So I was like how can I put atwist to this?
(20:21):
Because coaching can betherapeutic, but my coaching
isn't therapy.
No, the way that I coach is morelike it's more solution focused
, like what's the outcome?
But we're going to also exploreyour emotions through it.
We're not going to go into thetrauma work or figure out why
that teacher is making you feelthat way.
(20:42):
Instead, we're going to focuson ways to overcome that teacher
.
So therapy for me is more let'sgo back in time and coaching
for me is more like let's figureout what's going on now and
move forward.
Find you the tools that arealready inside you to make you
successful.
I always tell my clientsjokingly your skills to be
(21:04):
professionally where you want tobe.
It's like a six-pack right,everyone has a six-pack, but you
need to work out, eat healthy,and the reason I use that and
that analogy is because that'show therapy and coaching works.
You already have everything inyou, you just need someone to
help you yes, basically bring itout right and strengthen you.
It's a muscle that you basicallybring it out and strengthen you
(21:25):
.
It's a muscle that therapy andcoaching do for your mind.
Speaker 2 (21:27):
Correct and Fede.
You said that because that'sexactly what I use as an example
either for my coaches or for myclients.
No-transcript.
(21:49):
And when you get into anaccident and you lose mobility
in one of your extremities orany part of your body, you go to
physical therapy to regain whatit was once there.
So that is therapy.
Gain what it was once there, sothat is therapy.
Something happened to us thatwe lost mobility of emotions or
(22:12):
self-love, self-care, and weneed a therapist to help us to
exercise again how to do it.
Once we get there, then we goto a coach that then they can
teach us new techniques.
And they can teach us oh, youknow, this is a YNC technique to
stack.
I call it stacking skills,right?
The danger is that I alwaysprevent either clients and
(22:34):
coaches, because you can haveall the good intentions Like,
let's say, you went to a verytraumatic event and now you're
coaching about that traumaticevent and I tell them that is
transfer trauma.
That is not coaching, right, Ilove you and I care that you
care for people, but what about?
Instead of teaching them ortransferring trauma, we teach
(22:55):
people how to stay in that andmaybe ask for help if they need
to or not.
So part of being traumainformed means to a lot for a
lot of my coaches I train isplease refer out.
It's okay, Because as a coach,word of mouth is the most
important presentation card,right.
(23:16):
So you want to say save aclient the hurdle that you are
not going to be able to helpthem, at least not right now.
But, because you send them tothe right place.
They will be so grateful withyou.
Speaker 1 (23:28):
And I'm glad you bring that up because I think
that, no, I think actually Iknow that in my the beginning of
my practice I wanted all theclients right, because when
we're interning, people justthrow clients on our plate.
But when you're in your privatepractice you can be selected.
But I think what's hard too isthe ethical pieces.
(23:48):
I don't want I don't need totake on clients for a moment,
like, yeah, but that shouldn'tbe the reason why you're taking
on clients right.
And yeah, I've had, I've had totell clients, you know, we're
not a good fit, and that's sortof the consultation.
And I have had clients be like,hey, you're not a good fit for
me either, and I'm like, hey,that hurt in the beginning, it's
a girl, but I was like, oh mygod, I got rejected.
Or you know, I had to turn aclient down and I felt guilty,
(24:12):
like, I felt so bad, like, butit's, it's part of the process
and I like that.
You mentioned that, because ifyou can't take on a client,
you're doing them more of a goodby not taking them on.
Right, and also, sometherapists you know, not
everyone has that specializationin trauma-informed care, right,
even though I think it isimportant.
I think every therapist, Ithink every human should have a
(24:32):
trauma-informed approach.
Speaker 2 (24:34):
I agree, I agree, and that's why I dedicate myself to
do trainings in trauma-informedin school, at work, in law
enforcement, et cetera, etcetera.
You will think that they haveall the training, but they don't
, and also not only the training, but the history of the trauma
of the place.
What do I mean?
For example, if you work in anonprofit, one of the things
(24:59):
that nonprofits were created forit was, like you know, it was
very church oriented.
Therefore, people cannot makemoney out of nonprofits.
But now nonprofits are huge,huge, huge identities, meaning
corporations.
You're not going to have a CEOthat is going to make 3K outside
(25:21):
, making only 4K in thenonprofit, just because it's the
goodness of the heart.
They also have to live, right,and this is the the little thing
that I found very peculiar,because the difference between
coaches and therapists is thatcoaches are very uh, almost like
superstars, monetarily wise,you know they can make a lot of
money if they want to withethical ways.
(25:44):
But therapists are very lockedin certain ways.
Right, and like you say, youdon't want to take every single
client, but when you work withinsurance which, by the way, if
you haven't heard or episodethree, you should it talks about
why it's so hard working withinsurance.
As clinicians, we want to, butit's almost like you're
(26:06):
shackling yourself to not helpthis other population.
Right, and even in betweentherapists, not all of us were
specialized in the same things.
For example, in the privatepractice that I work we're seven
Out of the seven.
I am one of two that isspecializing somatic trauma
(26:26):
training.
Okay, and out of the two, onlyI the one that treats all the
you can say heart cases likecptsd, ptsd, military
chronically ill and terminallykind of like your.
I I always joke that I like thesub things, but you know,
because I was like I like, Ilike sitting in sadness too.
Speaker 1 (26:48):
I love my Lana Del Rey every now and then I love
sitting in it.
Yeah, I think it's okay andthat's what I love about therapy
too.
It's like let's sit in.
I'm not going to say like, hey,it's going to get better.
I'm like, no, you know what,let's sit in it for a couple of
minutes.
Speaker 2 (27:03):
I want to know all the feelings Right right, right,
and then I connect you back toyour body and you know, like you
say, we find this niche Mai wasutilizing pop culture, video
games and why not to do exposuretherapy and I have been well
known because of it.
But you are going to alwayshave somebody and this is for
all my baby therapists out thereand baby coaches that is going
(27:27):
to try to sell you or tell youthat this is the only way to do
things.
You know, like there is alwaysthe which therapeutic approach
is the best, or ifpsychodynamics versus
psychoanalysis, et cetera, etcetera.
Right, and in coaching, we havethe same In coaching,
unfortunately, it is true thatone day I can get up and say I'm
(27:50):
a coach, right, Because it'snot regulated whatsoever.
But that's what the regulationcomes from, the person that is
hiring the coach.
If we're hiring it out ofalmost like not a need, but
almost like I'm missingsomething and I want this person
to provide it, that's a no-no.
(28:12):
If I'm like, I like theirskills and I want to learn how
to do that, that's a differentapproach.
So can you tell us, like whenyou have people that comes to
you for coaching and you're like, ooh, you need therapy, not
coaching.
How do you navigate that?
Speaker 1 (28:28):
Well, oh my gosh, that's a good question, because
I do for coaching.
I do have clients who want totalk to me about how to be a
better leader or how to be moreof a team player, and part of me
(28:48):
is like maybe we should do sometherapy to dig into why you
don't like to open up to peopleon the team or be a team player.
But I also have to rememberthat they came to me for
coaching and I have to beclient-centered.
And the thing with coaching isthat I'm also more available.
With therapy, it's onlywhatever your insurance allows.
I'm also more available withtherapy.
It's only whatever you'reinsured to allow.
So that's a little bit more.
There's more rules to that.
(29:09):
With coaching, I allow mycoaching clients to call me.
We can email back and forthtext because that's part of our
plan.
Like you know, like, hey, I'mgoing to go into a meeting.
I'm very anxious.
Can you help, like, prep me upfor it?
Yeah, let's get on a call realquick and let's go through that.
But, um, yeah, I think that.
(29:29):
Sorry, I lost my train ofthought because I get so
passionate about the coachingpart.
Okay, so when I client comes tome, I don't, I don't, I don't
choose for them, I don't, I justthey came to me for a specific
thing and it's not until thecoaching that you know we just
go that route.
Okay, yeah.
Speaker 2 (29:49):
Yeah, I with my coach .
So I train the coaches.
I don't train the people, Itrain the coaches.
Okay, and with them.
You know, I have coaches foreverything from soundbats to
crystals to roots, to likeactually shadow work, and I
always told all of them you haveto respect what the client is
(30:10):
coming for you.
But at the same time, if yousee the red flags that maybe
they're not stable enough forthis or this, and that because
the difference, the hugedifference between coaching and
therapy, I feel is like one timesomebody joked with me because
I once hired a coach and theysaid, oh, you hired a
(30:30):
cheerleader.
I'm like, yeah, I did, Itotally did because I need it,
like I need a cheerleader totell me I'm doing it okay,
because my therapist cannot dothat.
My therapist cannot be mycheerleader because we're
neutral.
And that is the part that is themost telling one, which one you
can take, for example, as atherapist, if I see you in the
street, I don't recognize you.
(30:51):
I love you and I want the bestfor you, but I cannot say hi to
you ever, right?
If I go to your birthdayparties or whatever.
You know, graduation a lot ofthem, they want to go to
graduations because you knowthey're so important and stuff.
I cannot because, believe it ornot, I carry with me a lot of
the darkness that has beenpassed right, it has been put on
(31:14):
me.
So I don't want to be in themost happy places of your life
because that's not verytherapeutic for you.
Speaker 1 (31:21):
You can run into people that they've told you
things about, mm-hmm, and thennot that we, but we have an
image of that person in ourminds, right, like oh, that's
who you talk to.
Speaker 2 (31:32):
Right, right, you're like, ah, like there is this
TikTok that I always laughbecause all my clients say do
you want to see a picture?
Like no Can say show me thepicture of the person that
you're talking.
Nope, nope.
But as a coach, my coach is myfriend now, like years past.
Right, I have gone to theirweddings, I have gone to their
baby showers.
You know that is like adifferent relationship because
(31:53):
it becomes more professional,slash, coworking, right.
So I think that is the biggestdifference that when you share a
lot of vulnerability and pain,if it's pain that you will not
share with pretty much everybody, then it's not pain that needs
to be shared with a coach, butit is pain that can be shared
(32:14):
with a therapist and you canuntangle whatever is in there
With coaches.
I believe that are the bestchill leaders that are the best
to hone down one skill.
Believe that are the best chillleaders that are the best to
hone down one skill like.
The word coach means right, likein a gym or in a career of
obstacles.
They're going to pressure you alittle bit.
Sometimes they're going to tellyou you're not doing okay and
(32:36):
they're going to give you theirperspective and maybe you don't
want to like it, but they alwaysare.
With kind regard.
Coaching, no.
Therapy should hurt.
They should not be harmful,they should not be making you
feel worse.
Um, granted, therapy is morelike a root canal versus
coaching is like braces, that'slike how I put it I feel like
(32:59):
with therapy too, we have toremember that it can be a little
hard in the beginning.
Speaker 1 (33:02):
If you have to unpack a lot of stuff, a lot of stuff
comes up even my, my own therapystill like and that's when the
work starts to happen.
Speaker 2 (33:10):
Right, right and I, but it never has to
re-traumatize you or hurt toomuch, exactly.
Like that's what I say, like Iwrote kind of it's not pleasant
and like have you got anytrouble?
Because I know in the therapysphere they have kind of like
(33:33):
not such a good eyes for coachesor they're always like kind of
like psychiatrists andtherapists it's the same kind of
like stay in your lane, don'tdo this.
But I was like can wecollaborate instead of like
fighting for people or who'sbetter or who's not?
Have you encountered that kindof I don't want to say
discrimination, but kind ofanimosity between the two
(33:56):
careers?
Speaker 1 (33:58):
Well, I'll be honest with me personally, I've come
across like I've met people whoare life coaches, who specialize
in trauma, and I'll oftentimesbe like oh, oh, like where did
you go to school?
Like where did you getcertified?
And they'll tell me where theywent.
And you know, this is just myperspective.
It's really I don't think thata certification can train
(34:19):
somebody for trauma work, um,and also because coaching can be
done anywhere, like I can be incalifornia and you can be in,
like in Florida or New York, andI think, too, is with therapy,
it's like we have to know whereour clients are so that we can
access any crisis interventionsand coaching.
(34:40):
I think that coaches aren'taware of their client
surroundings, even if it'svirtual.
Like it's really important toknow where your clients at,
where they live, and do a littleresearch, like where does my
client live, where's the nearesthospital, and know, like, who
to call, like my name, my name,my name, my name or all that
stuff.
Speaker 2 (34:57):
Right, yeah, and it is a for people that doesn't
know.
If you are a life coach, youget what 60, 60 to 90 days
training and different things.
Mostly it's marketing.
But there is a differencebetween being trauma-informed
and trauma-trained.
Trauma-trained takes years anda lot of packing.
(35:18):
Trauma-awareness ortrauma-informed means oh, I know
about trauma and I cannothandle it, so I know how to
transfer it to another identityor another person.
That is being trauma informedand that is something that a lot
of coaches I used to like, notlike life coaches.
I went to a very famous eventwith a very famous coach that
(35:42):
will put the person in, you know, in the stage and say tell me
about your childhood trauma andblah, blah, blah.
And the person opened up becausethey trust this person and
you're all pumped out with likeenergy and everybody's loving
you in the moment.
And the person opened up a verydark story of abuse and why not
?
And then the show was over andI was sitting down in the hotel
(36:06):
bar and I saw the person and theperson was contemplating like
their their drink, like justmessing around with it, and I
was like, oh no, I know that, Iknow that, shake it off the
drink.
So I just came around and waslike how, how many years have
you been sober?
And the person looked at melike 20.
(36:27):
But today I, just like you, thecoach opens so much and they
rip him apart.
That left him bleedingafterwards and that is why you
don't know trauma, when youdon't know what is trauma
informed.
When you open, you thought thatwas just a little little thing
(36:47):
and you just undone a person'suh, the most traumatic thing
it's important to know how toclose, like when you unpack a
can of worms.
It's important to know how toput it back in and seal it back
in and make sure that they'reokay right and as clients and
people that are searching forcoaches, because you know, uh,
if you go with therapists, uh,if they're private paid yes,
(37:10):
they're private paid.
Yes, they're expensive, but thereason that they're expensive
is because they have to pay forclinics and all the other stuff.
But if you pay for a coach, Ijust want you to be aware of the
things.
You can always say no, thankyou, and you can always cut it
off whenever.
The same with therapists If youdon't like them, you can go
find out somebody.
(37:30):
I know it's hard, but I promiseyou there is Latino therapists,
there is male therapists, thereis queer therapists.
It takes a little digging, butthere is.
And there is the same withcoaches.
But one of my favorite coachesshe as a client somebody came
and told her start dumping, youknow things on her, and she was
(37:52):
like no, I don't do that.
She was like very good in herboundaries.
So I'm curious how do youprotect your boundaries?
Because it can be a blurry linewhen you're a therapist and a
coach and you're like but I knowhow to do this, but no, that is
not the role that I have here.
So how do you handle thatblurry line of helping your
(38:15):
clients?
Speaker 1 (38:17):
I make it known that you know there's emails you can
email me.
There's like hours that I won'treply.
I think that I mean no socialmedia can have me, Hence why I
haven't started my.
I don't have my.
I took off my personal socialmedia.
I deactivated it because I wasgetting clients who were
following me or who wererequesting me, and then they
(38:38):
would ask me in session like,hey, I thought I requested you
and I'd say I know, but I'm alsovery.
My approach is honesty.
I'm very honest.
I don't beat around the bush.
I'm like, yeah, I know you have, and so I wanted to talk about
that today.
Or, you know, you brought, youbrought something up that's been
on my mind as well.
Let's talk about it.
And I let him know, like as atherapist and as a client, we're
(38:58):
not friends like, right, youknow it sounds it sounds mean,
but well, we learn this in lawand ethics and take exams and
and we study it and at the endof the day, like, yeah, I know
so much about you, that'sone-sided, yeah, that it
wouldn't be fair for us to befriends.
Not because I don't want to beyour friend, but because I know
(39:19):
everything about you, becauseyou trust me, right in your mind
, I'm your friend, right,because you you've.
You haven't told anybody thesethings and in a sense, it's been
a one-sided trauma bonding,right, and I've been here, I've
been nothing but supportive toyou, right, and it's not fair to
be friends with somebody likethat.
It really isn't, because it'sonly been your side, right and
(39:39):
and it's just not not okay, andthen, with boundaries too, it's
I, just as things come up, wejust have the conversations like
the hard conversation thatthey're probably not used to
having, right right and and it'salso to remind uh people, uh,
that when, for example, theconsent form that we give in the
morning in the beginning of anyuh session mine says that too,
(40:03):
it actually has my social mediaand stuff in there.
Speaker 2 (40:07):
It says you cannot follow me.
Like it says in there, if youfollow me, I'm gonna block you.
Uh, not because I don't loveyou, not because I don't care
for you, but it's a powerdynamic.
That is not okay.
Yeah, like you say, I know somuch and that it will be too
powerful and too nerve-wrackingthat you will feel like, um,
(40:27):
because I have one client onceasked me oh, are you like the
TikTokers that are going to talkabout your clients in the thing
?
Like no, but I can see why youwill think that no, if they do
that, please report it orsomething.
But no, the reason is becauselife is going to life and a lot
(40:47):
of social media.
What they are selling you isthe person, life.
So when we are one sided,that's the magic of it, right?
You don't know much about me,so you can put a lot of things.
Speaker 1 (41:00):
Right.
Speaker 2 (41:02):
Because I'm a blank state right.
Once you start knowing moreabout me, then you start your
brain is a brain and it's goingto start doing biases and say
they are going to judge me.
I should not say this becauseit can offend them.
So you start puttingpredisposed notions because you
know me, that's why we're with,that's why, when we were in high
school, we do dumb things withfriends, because we do it,
(41:25):
because they influence all thefriends.
So to keep it a blank slate iswhy we don't become friends or
anything like that.
Now, in coaching, it's adifferent story, because I'm
teaching you actually a skill,I'm teaching you a performance,
if you will Like.
For example, the coaches Icoach about trauma-informed.
(41:45):
I show them scenarios and howto pass people and also I show
them how they're gonna gettriggered, because that's
another thing that coaches don'trealize that when you work with
people, you're gonna gettriggered.
Yes, people is gonna people andyou, if you don't do the
internal work, it's gonna show.
Speaker 1 (42:02):
So for our audience, what it will be like three
little nuggets of uh informationthat you will give them, either
for therapy, to finding a maletherapist, or coaching so people
are looking for these thingslike, well, I mean, there's a,
(42:22):
there's alma, it's a gooddirectory, that's where you can
find me on, and there's a, andyou can filter it out based on
gender, culture, identity, allthat stuff.
I think it has to do with yourniche, like what you're actually
looking for, like your specific, like what you specifically
want to work on, because onecoach isn't going to know
everything, so it's important toknow what you can help with.
(42:45):
And if you don't, consult,consultations are free, and they
should be free.
Yeah, and if you're out thereand you're a therapist and you
charge for them sorry, notputting you down, but
consultations should be free.
They're 15 minutes and that'sthat's when you start to do your
shopping, like it's okay tointerview multiple people until
you find that one person,because it's an investment in
(43:06):
yourself and we're not cheapright, we're not cheap, and the
reason that we're not cheap isbecause we spend a lot of
student loans on it if I, if Itold people how much I owe I
tell them I owe two houses incalifornia to give you a
perspective, but um, but I alsotold them uh, choose that right,
(43:30):
even with my students.
Speaker 2 (43:31):
So I coach a lot of students in career and goal
setting and why not?
And one of the things I coachthem is the investment that
you're going to make in school.
Make sure that the job thatyou're going to get is going to
pay at least a quarter of thatinvestment.
Because, for example, if you gofor a career that is going to
(43:52):
cost you $90,000 and you're onlygoing to make $40,000 a year,
the math doesn't matter right,and passion can get killed with
poverty too.
So I coach in about how tochoose what resonates with you,
but also what is good for you.
(44:12):
My three nuggets for people isthe same Consultation is free
because it's 15 minutes.
It should not be charged,either for coaches or therapists
.
Always, always, always getreferrals, meaning ask people
that has gone through thisprogram, or ask people it has
gone through this coach, not thepeople that they put in their
(44:33):
Instagrams and stuff like that,because, like any ad, you know,
we can pay people to do that.
But if it's for word of mouth,it's golden, because you know if
I know Susanita that went to dothis.
I trust her, so I'm going to go.
But also understand that you'redealing with a human being and
because you're dealing with ahuman being, sometimes you don't
(44:54):
buy it and it's okay to say Idon't want to.
So when you have coaches thatmake you sign contracts for a
year or six months, no, becauseyou know I always say 90 days,
even in a car.
Before you return a car that isreal expensive, you have 90
days before you can return it.
So the same with therapists youcan drop them anytime that you
(45:17):
want.
Speaker 1 (45:17):
And I wanted to mention one more thing.
So a nugget I have, too, istherapists don't, ethically, we
cannot get testimonials.
Someone can't be like, oh,sergio and Dr Roldan are the
best therapists out there, likewe highly recommend, right, we
can't do that.
That's not fair, because it'slike saying like, oh, my surgeon
is the best surgeon I highlyrecommend when something happens
(45:40):
to you.
And oh my gosh, right, butwe're coaching.
That's different.
They can promote, like you said, they can promote six month
contracts.
They can promote that they'rethe best, that they, that they
will help you get your resultsin like three months or whatever
.
So that's a difference too ishow we advertise, because we
can't, we go on a directory,that's it, right, right.
Speaker 2 (46:01):
And we go by specialities and stuff like that
.
And uh, also, don't leave gelpreviews for your therapist.
They don't, we don't read itand like we don't do use them or
anything like that.
Like Serge would say,therapists wear like a ghost.
Speaker 1 (46:18):
Really, that's what it is.
Speaker 2 (46:19):
Yeah, for your protection, but coaches, that's
a different story.
In coaches, you do have a lotof advertisement and a lot of
coaches, unfortunately.
Unfortunately, they're sellingyou a lifestyle, which that
should be your red flag.
If somebody's promised you, oh,in three months you're gonna
have my life, no, maybe you'regonna have the tools to get
(46:42):
there, that's totally okay, butyou will not have their life,
and I'm not.
I have a beef, if you will,with a positive toxicity,
because sometimes life sucks andyou just have to be sitting
down in that.
But to wrap it up, what it willbe one green flag to be like if
(47:08):
I'm a client and I want to beyour client, client, what it
will be a green flag, your idealclient, for you I.
Speaker 1 (47:17):
I want somebody who wants to come and do the work.
I want somebody who is ready tochallenge themselves and and be
open and just share as much asthey're able, as much as they're
willing to share, but at theend of it, I want somebody who
thinks that I am the goodtherapist for them because, at
the end of the day, I'm your,I'm, you're my boss.
(47:40):
Yeah, my client is.
I like to perceive it that way.
My client is my boss and I andI listened to them and it's up
to them on how the therapy goesRight.
And I just want somebody whofeels a connection with me
Because even in my directory.
I mentioned that for me is, ifthere's not a vibe between us,
like if there's no chemistry,then you know, you'll know right
away.
(48:00):
Right, you'll know there'schemistry and I make sure that
people know.
Like you know, this is reallyimportant and if you don't
connect with me, it's okay.
Speaker 2 (48:12):
Yeah, really important, and if you don't
connect with me, it's okay, yeah, right, yeah, and my for me.
I will say one of the in thatconnection.
Like you say, yeah, if youdon't connect with your
therapist, it's okay to saythank you, but no, thank you we.
We don't get, but hurt we, we.
Speaker 1 (48:22):
You don't have our feelings I've had a client send
me a long paragraph about how,because they didn't move forward
with me, they sent me a wholeparagraph through email saying
how they felt bad and everythingand all I said was like hey,
it's okay.
Speaker 2 (48:39):
Right.
Speaker 1 (48:40):
And that's all I said .
I should have written more, butI'm like I didn't really.
I didn't want to.
Yeah, I just reassured them.
Like it's okay, like it's notRight.
Speaker 2 (48:45):
Right, it was like it's okay, Like it's not Right,
right, and I was like that is agood thing to explore with your
next therapist.
Speaker 1 (48:50):
And it's important to say that to clients too Like,
hey, if you don't move forwardwith me, just preface the
conversation during theconsultation and say hey, if you
don't move forward with me, nohard feelings at all.
This is part of the role orpart of my job Right Part of
this experience and journey forI asked mine by the third
session.
Speaker 2 (49:07):
So how are we doing?
Are we okay?
Are we?
Do you want to try differenttherapists?
And even that's the other thing, I don't keep clients forever
either, like you know.
Max a year Well, depends on thetrauma but mostly a year and
after that was like you need adifferent type of therapist
(49:28):
because I am the one that istaking you out of the thick.
But I take you to a level andonce you're in that level, I
send you out Right, andsometimes clients or even in
coaching, they're like but Idon't want to leave.
I'm like no, you have to.
It's like go fly.
Speaker 1 (49:44):
And I'll be honest, that's been hard for me with a
few people because they look sosad, like why are you firing me?
Or yeah, I'm like no, I feellike I.
I said I sense growth like youand I do I.
What I do, too, is I doassessments, I measure the
depression, anxiety and if Inotice it going down, I'm like,
(50:05):
hey, we're both doing an amazingjob together.
You don't need me as muchanymore.
Right, going like once, likeevery week, to twice a month, to
once a month, to maybe four orsomething my um.
Speaker 2 (50:19):
I always told them you are the car and the gps
after a while driving with me.
Speaker 1 (50:26):
You need an update yes, and that update yeah,
because you do grow with yourclients.
You look forward to that.
I mean, I mean, even though,like we are their therapists, we
still look forward to meetingwith them right, we're humans
and we get connected to them.
Speaker 2 (50:41):
Um and for the coaching industry, uh, what kind
of coaching do you do, do?
Do you do business coaching,life coaching?
Speaker 1 (50:50):
So what I specialize in is more blending personal and
professional together, a littlebit of academic and figuring
out how you can move forward andyou're stuck in your career.
Maybe there's something at yourjob that you are struggling
with, maybe your evaluation atwork didn't go so well and you
bring it to our coaching session.
(51:10):
We go over and figure out how wecan get those merits up and we
talk about it, you know, andthat's when the therapy comes in
, a little bit like hey, how areyou feeling about scoring this
level?
Right?
Most people I keep it.
I don't get too deep becausewe're not going back in time.
But then we explore that and wemove forward and things come
out like they'll be.
Like maybe I don't go to workon time, I don't really care,
(51:31):
I'm doing the silent quitting orI'm kind of looking for other
jobs.
I'm like, yeah, so that stuff'sbeing noticed right.
So, yeah, I mean, that's that's.
The coaching is more specificon that and more outcome driven.
Okay, we measure it so there'sdefinitely measuring that we're
doing okay.
Speaker 2 (51:47):
So if you are out there, even transitioning jobs,
or you just want to become thebest CEO of your own life, not
of their job, come and seeSergio Sergio, where they can
find you if they want to have acoach like you.
Speaker 1 (52:05):
Yeah, they can go to theracoachingnet and they can
also look me up on LinkedIn.
Sergio Soto Alvarez, You'll beable to find me.
Speaker 2 (52:14):
Perfect, and I will put all those links in the notes
of the program.
So, for everybody out there,just remember take a little sip
of water, hot cocoa that warmsyour heart, and just sit on it
for a minute.
That no matter what, everythingwill pass, good or bad, until
next time.
Thank you so much.
Thank you, sergio.
Speaker 1 (52:35):
Thank you for having me.
Speaker 2 (52:37):
And let me stop it as we conclude today's episode.
Take a moment to reflect.
Be proud of the journey, forevery step that brings you
closer to who you truly are.
Embrace the kindness towardsyourself as you did to each one
(52:58):
of our guests.
Honor the bravery in youractions and celebrate the
importance of mental wellnesswith us.
And remember it's an exercisethat we practice daily.
Continue to grow and flourish,knowing that we are in this
training for our mental wellnesstogether.
(53:18):
We are so proud to have you aspart of our community at our
Oasis Community Podcast for moreinspiring conversations,
valuable resources and supportedcontent, including journals,
worksheets and content inSpanish.
Exciting things are in thehorizon.
(53:40):
Our Oasis Community break roomsare coming soon to grab tools
and take a break for your mentalhealth.
Also, we are featuring oursix-month training ethical
mental health coaching programdesigned for new and experienced
coaches, as well as holisticand healing professionals.
Enroll to create a safe andtransformative experience to
(54:04):
your clients.
Links in the bio.
Until next time, take care,stay connected and welcome to
our Oasis community.
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