Rebuilding Trust and Self-Identity After Religious Trauma & DV

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Hello, hello our Oasis community.
I am Grace Williams with Lovethose Vibes.
I created Love those Vibes outof my desire to be an abundant,
fulfilled mom, and as I learnedit, I realized how many women
just didn't have the tools theyneeded to live the life that
they truly desire and learn tolove themselves fully.

(00:24):
I cannot wait to dive in andtalk to you guys today.

Speaker 2 (00:29):
Hello, beautiful souls, and welcome to Oroasis
Community Podcast.
I am Dr Roldan, your host.
I am a doctor in clinicalpsychology, a BIPOC therapist
professor and a mindful somaticcoach.
While I am a therapist,remember I'm not your therapist.
This podcast is not asubstitute for professional

(00:51):
mental health care, but we haveresources in our website and
Instagram to support you in thatsearch.
Join us for a cozy, feltconversation about mental health
, personal growth andmindfulness.
We explore tools to care foryour mind, your body and your
soul.
Check the footnotes fordisclaimer, trigger warnings and

(01:17):
additional resources for eachone of the episodes.
So grab your favorite cup of tea, coffee or hot chocolate, wrap
yourself in a warm blanket andfind a coffee spot here with us
to be kind to be brave, loud andstrong in your search of mental
health wellness.
Welcome to your Oasis.

(01:38):
Good morning everybody andwelcome to our Oasis community.
Grab your tea, your cup ofcoffee, to just feel the fuzzies
in your soul.
Today I have one of a dearestfriend, but also a woman that
has gone through back and forthand is a testament of great grit

(02:00):
and resiliency and love andself-love.
So, please, everybody, welcomeGrace Williams.
She is the creator that lovedthose vibes.
And Grace welcome to Oroasiscommunity.

Speaker 1 (02:15):
Thank you so much for having me.
I'm excited to be here with you.

Speaker 2 (02:18):
Today we want to dive in.
What do we do after trauma?
And this is the trigger warningfor everybody.
We may have been talking abouttopics that they will be
triggering.
So, as always, go to your cozycorner, take your blanket, grab
your smoochie bellow or grabwhatever you need to be okay in

(02:38):
this episode, or skip it andcome back later, after you do
some resourcing or somegrounding, and come back later
after you do some resourcing orsome grounding.
So, grace, start your storywherever you feel comfortable,
but the main topic that we aregoing to talk today is grit and
resiliency.
And what is the differencebetween I just surviving versus

(03:01):
I am thriving because I'mhealing?

Speaker 1 (03:03):
Oh, yes, this is such a dear topic to me.
I am a domestic abuse survivorand also I also say that I
survived high demand religionand I didn't realize it, but it
was a big factor in why I endedup in an abusive marriage and
why I stayed there.
And when I stepped out of theabusive marriage I also lost

(03:27):
much of my community and witheach step that I took to take
care of me, that community fellaway further and further and it
became very lonely.
I put so much pressure on myhusband when I met him to sort
of like fill all the things andyou know, I went from having
what I thought was a thriving,beautiful community to being

(03:47):
very alone, and it was.
It was challenging and being inthe domestic violence was
challenging.
But the aftermath wassurprising For me.
I didn't.
I kind of thought when I left Iwent through a few months of
counseling, very much in thereligious setting that I was in,

(04:08):
and I thought, oh, like we'redoing good, I'm through a lot of
those you know red flag reasonswhy I'm like I'm sure I'll
never go back there.
And it sort of turned aroundand realized I was pretty much
alone and had to rebuild mycommunity.
It was a big challenge for me.

Speaker 2 (04:26):
Right, and thank you for that, grace.
And in another episode we havebeen talking about domestic
violence too, and what you'retalking about is what in therapy
we call a religious trauma.
Yeah, and when I first camehere to the United States, I had
that.
You know, they grabbed me astheir project to heal me and

(04:51):
stuff, and I had great friends.
You know, I have a group ofgirls that were my friends.
I was young, I was like 22.
And they were like 20.
No, I was 25.
Sometimes I'm not 20.
In my 20s, in my early 20s, andyou know I didn't speak english
when I came into this country,so I was the project that they
grabbed me.
Let me show you the country andall that kind of stuff.

(05:11):
Uh, because I was a refugee andthey were great kids, you know,
they were loving and caring, buteverything was about the
religion, right.
And then I met a guy, uh,caucian, and it was abusive,
very abusive to the point that Iended in the hospital two,
three times, and one of theseven girls one of the seven

(05:32):
girls is the one that helped meto get out, but the other six
they were OK with it they werelike no, because you, your
higher power, god, whoever youcall it, is sending you to help
him and to tell you how manytimes you want to get out and
the beat ups that God for thatand I say this to everybody out
there because you know they seeyou Grace is just a joy of love.

(05:57):
When you meet her, you justwant to squeeze her and feel all
the love out of her and you seeme like I'm a powerhouse, like
you know, doctor, and all thesethings, and you think they never
went through anything.
But we do, because throughreligion there is so much trauma
and so much permission toattack and diminish the soul of

(06:19):
people.
Yeah, there is so many.
That's what we have so weliterally in therapy we have a
whole section that is dedicatedto religious trauma, because
it's almost like cult.
Uh, trauma too.
Yeah, and I said that becausemove forward like thank goodness
I get out of the relationship,but not because my friends in

(06:40):
the religion I get off.
Because it got so bad and itwasn't because I was being hurt
so much.
It was when this personattacked my mom and I was like.
That's when I was like no, no,no, no.
And it wasn't not even an attack, attack, you know, it just was
mean.
He has never done that before.
So I was like nah, and my mombeing my mom, she called the

(07:04):
police, and that's when it breakevery second.
And when she knew what washappening to me she was like how
, you didn't tell me and blah,blah, blah.
And I was like my friendsapprove it, so how, I will say
it.
So for you, how was like thechurch, almost like a
detrimental to get out like adetrimental to get out.

Speaker 1 (07:29):
Uh it, I literally had a pastor counsel me on so
many things that he thought Iwas doing wrong uh when I
separated from my ex-husband formy own safety, even to the
point where I left, I was in avery, very like conservative
religion.
And then, um, when I steppedout of there, I still wanted
that community and connection,right, I still wanted that

(07:49):
higher power connection.
So I sought something that wasmore open and mainstream, and
what surprised me there is thatthere the ex-husband sort of
followed me along.
But what I learned was that inthe original space, all of the
focus was on him and, you know,saving him, fixing him, helping

(08:10):
him, and it was like my ownfamily.
And that was shocking, becausethat is that's how we were all
raised.
And so there were moments whereI was like, is it me, should I,
should I be doing somethingdifferent?
And as I stepped out of thatspace and got into something
that was more mainstream, moreopen, I realized, okay, taking

(08:31):
care of me is okay, and um, youknow, and I'll be honest with
you that that the friendships Ihad in that church space were
gone, um, the, they just didn'texist.
Once I stepped out of that spaceand and to find all of that
over again, family relationships, um, weren't so much about

(08:54):
leaving that relationship, butsort of the healing I did and
the perspectives I have and howI moved forward in my own life.
Um, then those familyrelationships started to fall
away and the ones that honestlywere about the abuser I had
already kind of boundariedmyself off from those really
almost like fenced me in andmade me feel like I couldn't do

(09:17):
something different and still,at the time I was, it was a
Christian religion so and stilllove God, and I struggled with
that because I that was deeply apart of who I was at the time
and it made me feel like I hadto in order to save myself

(09:41):
physically and emotionally.
I had to lose a part of me thatI thought was important to me.
And as I moved through thatspace, which took me years
because I didn't seek therapy Iwent through some counseling
that was addiction-based,religious based, based on the
abuse that I was in and had avery much like glad that's over

(10:05):
feeling and I really did, and itwas like I spent a few months
there.
I grew but looking back, I couldhave, I could have probably
healed so much sooner had Istepped further out of that
space, so that constantly likebeing taught and ingrained to be

(10:25):
into that, like with my family.
Growing up it was always likeGod and church, family, and then
if they're not part of that,they may not really be good for
your life.
And that was so.
My entire community was builtaround that space and it was
only in my early twenties when Istepped out of that space.
I started to see like there arebeautiful, amazing people

(10:48):
outside this space.
Like why didn't anyone tell methey were here?
And I'm so grateful that I didat that time, because it was
that little seed of thosebeautiful people and friendships
that helped me pull myself outof that abusive space.
Thank you for that.

Speaker 2 (11:04):
And I just see chills Because I I resonate with that
so much and it's something thatwe don't talk because you know
we all need a higher power, ahigher force, and when you talk
to people then you're the evilperson, right, and you're like
how, how, how and with.
In my story you have a happyending.

(11:26):
Don't worry people, we're happymarried, we are like that's, we
have healed.
But it took years In my, myjourney.
I still, I love thatrelationship, but I stay still
with my friends, my, mygirlfriends it was a group of
girls and I learned to speakEnglish and I'm a very

(11:47):
opinionated person and I waslike this doesn't make sense.
What you're asking me to do andwhat you guys do is not okay,
you know, like segregatingpeople, pushing people away
because they don't believe thesame things, or saying you're
evil because, uh, for example,uh, back in the days when I
started my uh buddhist, uh,mindfulness learning, and they

(12:09):
were like, oh my god, that's thedevil.
And I'm like but how right andum, you know, I come from a
country that we have a lot ofmayan well, I'm half mayan, half
spanish and we have a lot oftraditions that they may look
like witches or stuff like thatfor certain religions, but
they're just root rituals and Iremember that a lot of them they

(12:35):
say you know, don't sleeparound, don't talk to people,
and stuff like that, but theywill do all those things and I'm
like I don't get it.
You're telling me not to dothis, but it's okay if we repent
.

Speaker 1 (12:46):
Right.

Speaker 2 (12:46):
So in my in my head was like that's not okay.
Um, and then fast forward.
Unfortunately, I got diagnosedwith a chronic illness that put
my life in danger and I haveanother partner and we didn't do
well and I lose.
I will like to say I was verygraceful losing that

(13:07):
relationship, but I wasn't.
I didn't heal before theprevious relationship and I
still have that religion'scuckoo pops happening.
So when I got really sick, thatsupport didn't happen because I
didn't agree with them.
They were like oh, pray aboutit and you will get healed.

(13:28):
I'm like that's not going toget healed like that.
I'm sorry, I'm a scientist,right, right.
I appreciate the good vibes,but it was so extreme and then
in a second like this, I lostthe community because I didn't
agree with them, because Ichallenged the status quo of
like or a leader was anex-football player that was

(13:51):
sleeping around and taking allthe money of the church, and I
was like it's okay.
And they said, oh, you have toforgive them because God.
And then I, I'm a, I'm afeminist.
Which feminism?
it doesn't mean we hate men, itmeans, we love men that we want
to teach our next generation tolove everybody, and I'm a

(14:12):
feminist.
Back in the day it was a littlemore like, a little more rough,
if you will, and I didn'tunderstand why every center of
religion had to do with men,like it's based in men for their
needs and wants, and we werejust tools and, of course, being
me me, I was very opinionatedabout it.
They, to tell you they were.

(14:33):
It was so easy for them to likejust drop me off.
Yeah, the earth, yeah, um, they, I don't know they use this
kind of narrative that I was theevil one, that I was like that,
not the healthy one, yeah,stuff like that.
And many times I reach outbecause I miss the friendship.
It was a good friendship in thesurface you know, um, and

(14:58):
because of that I become veryresentful of religion for
multiple reasons also.
Also because I was very sick.
So I was like damn youfirepower Sure.

Speaker 1 (15:08):
That's understandable .

Speaker 2 (15:10):
Right.
And then it wasn't that thedarkest times in the hospitals
or, like you know, going throughthe thick of it that I started
doing work with survivors ofdomestic violence and human
trafficking and refugees, andthen I learned that you can help

(15:32):
them to heal with whateverhigher power they have, taking
the shame out of it, becausereligion is so shameful.
That's how they keep you.
They shame you for everythingthat you do, especially women.
Men can have desires, Womencannot.
Men can have multiple partners,women cannot.
Men can get divorced.

(15:53):
We cannot so it was all thatthing in you know, coming from a
very Catholic country, which,when you learn that we are
Catholic because we want conquer, Right, you're like, oh, that
makes sense.
We don't want it Right.
So I say all this to everybodylistening, because, if you
notice, grace's story and mystory are similar, yeah.

Speaker 1 (16:14):
We had a community.

Speaker 2 (16:15):
Yeah, we, in a way we were brainwashed a little bit.
Yeah, to the point that we putourselves in such a dangerous
position.
Yes, and we blame ourselves forwhat happened to us.
I did, and we blame ourselvesfor losing the friendships, the
community.
And then I don't know about you, but it was so hard for me to

(16:36):
trust again.
Anyway, like family, friends,anybody, I was like I don't know
, and if you talk about religionI will run for the hills.
I'm like peace out.

Speaker 1 (16:46):
I'm, so you know what I'm, so you know what I it's.
I and I struggled with that forthe longest because there's
there's this part of me thatlike feels like you know, I want
that.
Like you had said, I waslooking into mindfulness and all
those things that I felt veryspiritual, but I felt like every
time I dove into things, theyjust were like on the other side
of the door there was religionwaving at me and I was like no,

(17:08):
no, no, and I just, honestly, itwould be like I would follow
people on social media and thenI would dive down in and be like
there it is again.
So I really have been veryarm's length and I did like I I
mean I lost close connectionswith family members who were my
dearest, closest friends as well, and that's been a struggle.

(17:30):
I mean I see them at familyweddings, funerals, major life
events, but there's norelationship there anymore
because they're in that spaceand they they couldn't accept me
when I chose not to be in thatspace.
Um, and that that was reallydifficult and I have been.
I I mean like I've made momfriends over the years but they

(17:52):
sort of, as the kids grew, thoserelationships change, the kids
grow apart.
You don't keep in touch as well, and I've had to be super
intentional about, yeah, openingmyself up and building
community, because it's lonelywhen you don't have community.
But it's also really hard totrust after you go through that
right, I, my saving grace wasvideo games.

Speaker 2 (18:17):
Uh, you know, and that's funny enough, that's what
my whole private practice andeverything I do is is about.
Like you know, uh, finding thatcommunity even, or oasis
community yeah is come with allyour take a break and go
whenever you need to you know,because that's what I needed.
I needed a place that I can rest, recover and move on to the

(18:38):
next step.
Right, and the gaming communitygave me that.
I mean, yeah, they're toxic incertain parts, but like
everything you know, and funnyenough, when I did my practicums
in addiction medicine, one ofthe things that irked me, I was
like, is that a lot of theprograms are based in 12 steps,

(18:59):
which is nothing wrong with the12 steps they work, they're
amazing but for people that hasreligious trauma, they're very
overly traumatic because so youget very traumatized because,
kind of like, four of the stepsare, like religion based yeah um
.
So when you are trying torecover and and if you are in a
religious trauma, recovery oreven domestic violence, they,

(19:23):
they use those.
So I always tell my, my clients, you know that is a smart
recovery which is neutral.
It's not neither, nor there isum.
You can go and just think abouta higher power.
There's always a higher power.
Nature, uh, self-love, call itwhatever you want, but I told
them, if they have rules andregulations for you to be

(19:44):
accepted, that's a no-no, nobecause, whoever loves, loves
you as you are and who you areGranted.
you have to have boundaries andrules of engagement, but those
are not rules of shaming.

Speaker 1 (19:59):
No.

Speaker 2 (19:59):
Those are not rules of exclusion and, like you, I
lost a lot of family memberswith that too.
Because you know, the more thatyou heal and I say this to all
my patients the more that youheal I say this to all my
patients the more that you heal,and this is why sometimes
people stop healing.
Um, you realize how not sohealed around you is, yeah, and
then, and then you have to start.

(20:21):
Do I want to stay here?
Do I need to?
I love this person, but it's nothealthy yeah and that includes
parents, brothers, sisters, um,that they, I call it the levels
you know of evolutionemotionally, and they are not
there.
It's not their fault, right,but if they are not wanting to

(20:42):
move, then that is a decisionthat you have to have right,
yeah um, right now it's verypopular, like the whole tech
talks and instagram and all thesocial media that says kids no
contact with parents.
A lot of them is because theyhave religious trauma, because
as kids we didn't choose ourreligions.
As kids we were dragged to it.

Speaker 1 (21:03):
Everyone, every single one.
Yes, every single one, you'reright.

Speaker 2 (21:09):
And I was a rebel since I was a little kid.
I remember that when I was alittle kid, you know, in
Catholicism they have this thingcalled First Communion, where
you go as a little kid with thewhite dress and stuff.
I was wicked smart since I waslittle and I always questioned
everything.
That's how they raised me right, and I was like, wait, this is

(21:32):
like kind of like a wedding,this is very creepy and I refuse
and refuse to do that wholeprocession thing that they do.
And because they make me, Idecide to wear a black dress oh
my god, I love it the prisonerswere like you're not doing this.
They're like I don't haveanother dress, take me or leave
me like this my parents knew whoI was.

(21:53):
so they were like, just like, ohmy god, this kid, um, but I
said that because I have thatagency, because my parents allow
me to.
Yeah, yet still they want me todo the rituals, they still they
want me to do the things thateverybody else did.
And I said this because if youbelieve in something we're not

(22:13):
telling you, not to, what we'retelling you is just to be
mindful of why you're gettingindoctrinated in anything.
You know, I always say, as agood scientist, we question
everything.
Yeah, because if it cannot berepeated, if it cannot be, if
it's not healthy for everybody,then it's harmful.
Oh yeah.

Speaker 1 (22:33):
I love that Learning that perspective helped me
really like okay, I'm on a paththat makes sense for me because
thatctrinated for so long it wasreally difficult to do.
And then, but I, when I heardthat perspective, like hey, it's

(22:55):
like it's got to be good,because that's what I used to
like, I would hear things likeoh God spared us.
Or and think, well, what aboutthe other people?
You know, like we're like atornado.
God spared them, but not them.
Wait, that doesn't really addup for me, you know, and I
struggled with that kind of likedifferent teachings like that
for the longest time, but I wasnot as bold a kid as you are.

(23:18):
I love the black dress.
That's amazing.
I wish I was.

Speaker 2 (23:25):
Well, I grew up with a lot of brothers and I'm the
baby and the only girl.
Right, right, okay, I grew upwith a very what I call inflated
ego, if you will.

Speaker 1 (23:37):
I love it.

Speaker 2 (23:39):
But aren't we in that one that you grow up thinking
there's something wrong with me,you know?

Speaker 1 (23:45):
because I don't fit the bill.

Speaker 2 (23:47):
I don't do this.
And then for a lot of peoplethat doesn't know, uh, religious
trauma is actually a um, not amental illness, but a trauma
trauma.
It's called rtc or religioustrauma syndrome, and part of the
symptoms that you know formthis is confusion, difficult
making decisions and criticalthinking.

(24:08):
So those three things arethings that we need to survive
to, aka why we end in domesticviolence relationships.
It creates anxiety, panicattacks in order to go and meet
new people, depression,existential crisis, who I am and
why I'm here.
Then it goes like stages ofgrief, right, anger and

(24:30):
bitterness, bitterness, socialdysfunction.
That's why we have a lot ofpeople that self-suit with drugs
, alcohol and sex.
Loss of meaning and directionbecause you have been put in
this kind of perspective ofyou're the bad person.
You are bad because you areleftist, and then insulation.
Yeah, so with that it came thesearch of a community.

(24:54):
Right, because we lost acommunity, so now we want one
and, um, I would love to saythat love life coaching was my
saving grace, but it wasn't.
I just I would like thisanother way of culty things,
just because the ones I wasgoing it was more of a fix in,
like what's wrong with you andlike yeah, yeah, um, and they

(25:16):
were tapping into like a lot ofpsychological traumas and stuff
like that in order to sell, um,not everybody's like that,
there's good cultures out theresure um reason why I I'm always
say, before I criticizesomething I have to experiment
it, right?
Yeah, so I went to Breathwork.
I remember that one veryclearly and I hated it.

(25:38):
I was like this is very woo-wooand very kind of culty.
I don't know, it wasn't not myvibe.
And then I tried a year or twolater with somebody else and it
was beautiful.
I don't know if it was becauseI was more open to it or what,
but I'm a free believer.
That is the person that isguiding you.

(26:00):
Yeah, right, the first person.
It was very like.
It is a flair, a little bit ofreligious culty.
Right, the other one was very,very free, very like, come as
you are, kind of like acommunity.
I kind of mimic that, come asyou are, I'm gonna want to
change you.
You change for you you don'tchange for nobody else.

(26:20):
Um, everybody is perfect whenyou, when you're born, you're
perfect right every everybody'sa good person when they're born
it's not such a thing as a goodperson or bad person.
It's good choices, bad choices,right and consequences with
those.

Speaker 1 (26:36):
No, I hear that and you know when I always say that
too, like when you, when youlook at children, you know we,
we love them as they are, likewhy we don't need to fix that.
All they need is the tools tolearn and grow and do things
like walk and eat and talk andall the things, not to mention
the emotional.
But it's just interesting thatwe get to a point where we we

(26:58):
were accepted then and lovedthem, but then now you're not,
and you know, I will tell youone concept of like feeling
worthy of whatever dreams love.
Really.
Even just till a couple ofyears ago I was in a just a
small group coaching and thetopic came up briefly.
It was a business coaching, butsomeone mentioned it and it was

(27:21):
like a earworm.
It just stuck with me and I waslike I don't know about this
worthy thing.
So I did like dive into itbecause and that's really what I
came up with was why, why do westart out worthy of all those
beautiful things and thensomewhere along the way we
become unworthy?
No, not at all.
If we started that way, we'restill that way.

Speaker 2 (27:40):
And that brings us how Ms Grace and I met.
It was in one of those businesscoaching slash communities.
It wasn't one of those businesscoaching slash communities and

(28:04):
I'm very open to people go intocoaching, into therapy, but a
lot of people go to coachingbecause it's less threatening.
The reason why I create, forexample, my coaching academy for
coaches not for people, butit's for coaches it's because I
noticed that there is goodpeople out there that wants to
do good in the world but theydon't have the training because,
you know, coaching doesn't havethe same schooling and

(28:24):
parameters that a therapist does.
Not saying that there are notgood coaches there.
Also, that's not saying thatthere's bad therapists out there
right because I remember one ofmy first therapy uh, patients
like you.
It was, uh very religious, so Iwas like, what's the point?
Like you, you are the persontelling me the same thing that I

(28:46):
don't want to hear becauseright, um so.
So I was like it's not going towork and I try another one.
And that does stick better.
Which brings me to if you docoaching or if you are in the
healing process, will yourecommend coaching first,
therapy first, a combo vote?

(29:07):
For example, in my ownexperience and I'm biased
because I'm a clinicalpsychologist person, so I'm a
therapist, so it's kind ofdifferent but for 14 years we
have to go to therapy.
You know, like all our career,it's like mandatory for us, so
you have to dig a lot and stuff.

(29:28):
And people always told me whyare you so happy?
And I'm like, oh, you only knewthe storm that I went through.

Speaker 1 (29:35):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (29:35):
Like one thing that if you're listening, I want you
to.
I don't know where you are inyour life story, but if you're
listening to, I promise you thatthe storm ends.
Yes, I'm not saying you're notgoing to get bruises, I'm not
saying that you're not going tocome out almost drowning,
because we do.
But we can rebuild, we can bethat person that we dream wants

(29:59):
to be.
And that doesn't mean havingall the money of the world,
having the perfect partner.
No, that means we accept us forwho we are at that moment.
Us for who we are at thatmoment, bruce and all.
We accept ourselves who we are,not because we did this good
deed, which a lot of religioustrauma leads to people pleasing
and codependency.

(30:23):
And then when you have a partnerthat is healthy, we push it
away because it doesn't feel oneeither worthy or it doesn't
feel like they love us, likethey supposed to love us,
because we are trying to patchall the other holes that we
create with those storms.
I call it like we went to.
I forgot how you say it inEnglish.

(30:43):
You know when, instead of rain,you have ice, little balls of?

Speaker 1 (30:47):
ice.

Speaker 2 (30:47):
Oh, you're like sleet or hail, I don't know the
difference, but yeah yeah, thehell is the big the big one.
So imagine you are a poorlittle car of crystal that can
with that.
It gets broken.
But it keeps going andunfortunately when we find a new
partner we want that partner tofix all of it.

Speaker 1 (31:10):
Everything.
Fix all the holes Right.
Heal all the things.
Be everything yeah.

Speaker 2 (31:15):
Right.
So tell me a little bit aboutthat story for you, how that
went, because for me it took meafter that whole drama with the
religious people and then beingsick, it took me 10 years of
being single before I even try,because I was like I need to
help myself.
I need to heal myself, I need towork on me first before I can

(31:38):
work in anybody.
So when I say work with anybody, meaning together as a
partnership, and I understoodwhat partnership means versus
like oh, you complete me, oh, my, my god, that irks me.
When they say that you completeme, no, you're totally,
completely human right we arepartners um, so tell me your
story about that, because youhave a great one too.

Speaker 1 (31:58):
Yeah, so we met, um.
So as I was sort of flailingaround trying to find community,
one piece of that communitycame in music for me.
I am a singer and have been foryears, and at the time I sort
of dove into that in my freetime because it just like
nourished my soul.
And I met a couple, literallyjust by nature of alphabetically

(32:23):
seated, whether you were asoprano or alto in a big chorus
festival for for holidayperformances and stuff.
And that's how I met my husband.
I happened to be seated next tothe woman who would eventually
marry his cousin, and so we metat the wedding functions and
there were a couple of otherstudents she became my voice

(32:47):
teacher and friend and therewere a couple of other students
that we were all just a littlebit older than most of the other
people in the wedding party andstuff.
So we all kind of clungtogether in those events and
hung out and my husband and I.
Now he's my husband just reallyclicked and he you know, if you
meet us, you he's super quiet,super laid back.

(33:08):
He's super quiet, super laidback, a very balanced Libra and
I am, you know, an emotionalcancer woo, all the time, very
sociable and so for us to haveconnected.
It's just surprising for a lotof people, but for us as well.
And we, we were both in a spacethat we probably, like I, felt

(33:30):
like I had been healing for afew years and I was open to a
new relationship.
And I think, looking back, weboth realized that we brought a
lot of mess and baggage intothis relationship with each
other.
But what we've done is we'veencouraged each other to grow
through that on our own and notthere was a point where I

(33:54):
started putting all of that onhim because he let me just be
completely myself and for thefirst time there was no
expectation.
He just enjoyed being with me.
He didn't want me to be acertain way, look a certain way,
do a certain thing.
He just he didn't expect me tochange my schedule I was doing.
When we met, I was in the throesof that holiday performance

(34:16):
season and during the wholemonth of December there was, you
know, I was busy with business.
I threw all the events for ourstaff and our contractors and my
tenants at the time, and then I, on top of that, I was doing
all these 10 performancessqueezed into like 10 days and
we met before that but ourrelationship was sort of in that
space where you like, you wantto hang out, you want to do

(34:40):
stuff, and I could barely seehim in that time and he just
completely respected that.
This was something important tome.
I mean, the man he's not evenremotely interested in like
holiday of festival performances, yet he came and sat in the
audience of like 3000 peoplejust to watch me sing in a choir
of 100, you know.
And so for me that was such newterritory because relationships

(35:00):
before that I was always in aposition where I was meeting
someone else's needs, I wasserving them.
And this was the first time itfelt mutual and I loved that and
it drew me to him even more.
And what I loved about him wasthat, despite he had been
through so much trauma in hislife and he's had so much loss
in his life, but he had such aclose knit community and every

(35:23):
time I spoke to him he wasmeeting up with a close friend
and like these are lifelongfriends.
And I love that about himbecause I lost all that and I
was like, wow, that's sobeautiful.
But what happened was, as Istepped into that relationship
and became more intimate withhim, I started to sort of resent
that he had that and I didn'thave it.

(35:45):
And it's not that I didn't likehis friends and I didn't want
him to be there.
It's that, like you're gettingsomething I don't and I don't
that I didn't like his friendsand I didn't want him to be
there.
It's that you're gettingsomething I don't and I couldn't
like if I struggled with theperson closest to me, like how
is it?
Like I don't know how to getthat, I didn't have the tools to
get it and it was really hardand it put a big strain on our
marriage.

(36:06):
It really did.
And you know, I threw myselfinto momming our little ones,
because I had two kiddos rightin the right in a row they're a
year and 13 days apart, and so Isort of threw myself into them.
But I still like all that time.
I just I felt like I'm nowlooking back.

(36:26):
I put so much pressure on himand my kids to sort of be that
everything, be that community,be that some more, and I I just
really struggled to find it onmy own.
So it was fun, that early faith.
But then once you know we wereliving together and building
life together in the long term,it was like, wow, his the things

(36:47):
that were healthy for him inlife made me realize how much I
was missing and that was reallyhard for me to navigate and I
wish I could tell you I was sobeautiful and jumped right into
therapy and worked through it.
I did not, I was miserable.
I was honestly so immature inso many ways and I'm just

(37:08):
grateful that he was so patientwhile I worked through it.
And you know it's sort of thehormonal stuff I went through
after my son did not help at all, so that just sort of
exacerbated all of it.
But I just got to the point whenmy kids were, you know, in
preschool age, like I, I want, Idon't want this.
I don't want to fall asleep onthe train every morning because
I'm so tired, because I don'tsleep well at night.
I don't want to fall asleep onthe train every morning because

(37:30):
I'm so tired, because I don'tsleep well at night.
I don't want to.
You know, as they grow up, Idon't want to hold them back
because I think that they needto feel something for me.
You know, I wanted, I wantedthat fun and that playfulness
that I had when I was, you know,climbing in a tent with my kids
or running around at aplayground with them.
I wanted to start to feel thatin different areas of my life.

(37:53):
And it wasn't until I stoppedand acknowledged that desire
that I think I was able toreally go.
Okay, now I can like, notimmediately, but now I can start
also being more aware of thepressure I'm putting on him and
how I'm throwing myself intomotherhood to a point where this
probably isn't the healthy wayto do it, you know.

Speaker 2 (38:16):
Yeah, a lot of times, when we become parents with our
partners, we actually openthose wounds again and again and
again if we don't heal them.
And to everybody out therethat's like, oh, I'm not going
to therapy, it's okay.
Normally speaking, people cometo therapy when you're in the
thick of it or when you're in acrisis, right, um, because we

(38:38):
need to heal a lot of thingsfrom the past.
You come to coaching when wealready heal those things, or
part of it right and we want tolearn skills to like repel us to
a new era, if you will, andwhat I resonate with you too, is
like during those 10 years ofsinglehood.

(38:58):
I call it singlehood, but I didmingle but you know, it wasn't
nothing serious, but my mindsetwas like I'm not going to get
into a relationship because Iknew that I wasn't completely
healed.
I knew that I have a lot ofthings to do and heal, why not?
And finally, when I met mypartner it was not even.
I was not even searching likeat all.

(39:19):
You know, and if you see myhusband and I people, always the
first thing that they say youguys are married.
Because, because you know, wework in very high profile, uh,
when we met we were working invery high profile security
careers, so in public we cannotbe very mushy or anything.

(39:40):
Because for safety right, sure,uh, and he is super serious,
like stoic almost, and you,whoever meets me, you know I'm a
bouncy ball up and down rightand I'm all like hugging people
and how are you?
And just, I'm very friendly andhe's not.
He's like kind of almostterrifying to people because
he's like I call it a vampirebecause he's in the back just

(40:03):
observing.
But the same right, he has gonethrough um conventions with me.
In fact, the first conventionthat I went as a coaching and
white net, it was women'sempower thing, which I was like
ew women right, because I havebeen traumatized with the
religions group.
So I was like no, and I went andI find this community was so

(40:28):
beautiful.
I find, yes, there were, therewere clicks, but you know, I
have learned to observe, lovethem and not participate.

Speaker 1 (40:37):
Right, right.

Speaker 2 (40:38):
Uh, so for everybody out there, you're an adult now,
so we can observe and notparticipate, it's okay, you
don't have to be with the coolkids anymore.

Speaker 1 (40:48):
You can make your own cool kid.

Speaker 2 (40:49):
Yeah, um, and I just buy with a lot of people like
grace and others and it just wassuch a beautiful friendships
because they don't expectnothing from you, right?
So a friendship is one thatdoesn't put, um, you do this for
me because I did this for you.
It's one that doesn't give yourules, like you have to wear

(41:11):
pink on Wednesdays, kind of likemean girls, like I swear my
friends in back in church theywere like the mean girls and it
was okay to be like that versusthis one.
It's like we love everybody.
Come over here, yeah, and myhusband and I, for everybody out
there, highly recommend, highlyEvery single boyfriend I have.

(41:32):
After my whole thing, I makethem go to family therapy with
me when we were getting serious.
And everybody what?
Because we need to learn how tocommunicate.
Hey, this is my baggage.
Which one is yours?
Which pieces do you want for?
mine, which pieces do you wantfor yours?
How can we accept this?
And why not?

(41:52):
Because you know like, we allcome with something right, we
all are dealing with something,and you know, um, the good thing
is that we can heal from itlittle by little um.
And for you, grace, how was it?
After going through therapy andhealing?

(42:14):
I know now you have a love,those vibes.
Can you tell us about how thatwas born and why was that born?

Speaker 1 (42:23):
Sure, so that came out of.
So let's just, let's say summerof 2019.
The short version is that ourfamily car, which was like the
good one of the two that weowned, literally up and died on
my birthday, the day before wewere supposed to drive it off to
family vacation and we were atbecause during my healing,

(42:47):
before my healing process, Imade a lot of impulsive
decisions.
One of them was to step out ofmy career position because I was
super unhappy there.
I and and it really I loved thestaff that worked with me, but
it was the management I reportedto that I struggled with deeply
woman.

(43:14):
I stayed there and I dealt withit because I loved my team so
much.
But what happened was when Ibecame a mom, that strain just
sort of started like wearing onme and I, when my son was born,
after that maternity leave, whenI went back to work, I had
decided, like shortly after, I'mnot going to be staying in this
position too long.
I don't know how and when I'mgoing to get out, but I'm going
to get out.

(43:34):
And in the midst of being inthat, this was during that
really angsty period where I wasputting all kinds of stuff on
my husband.
One was a big financial loadbecause I quit that job, took
something part-time, the pay wasway less, the hours were way
less, and God bless him becausehe's super supportive and he was
like, if that's what you need,like I'm here, we.

(43:55):
And so our finances were reallytight and we were just when
just kind of getting back to Ihad gone back to work full time
after a few years, had gone backfull time, our finances are
getting back to normal, and sowe weren't in a great position
to like have a car breakdown andhave to replace it, and so it

(44:16):
was kind of a stressor and mymoney mindset was still a hot
mess back then and, um, it'sbeen a big thing.
Watching my single mom struggleis a big reason.
I struggled with that for thelong time.
Um, but he so the short of itis our mechanic.
Let us basically borrow a carthat we were probably going to
buy for him.

(44:36):
And on that vacation, on thatdrive, I made the decision like
we need to do something to bringmore money into this household
and it can't be like a full timeor a part time job where I've
got to find another babysitter,because that's like we're
already we.
I can't do that.
It's already hard enough to dothat as it is, and so I found um
a direct sales.

(44:57):
During that week, a friend ofmine, who was an online friend,
started doing one of the directsales and I was like.
You know what I actually?
I didn't even want to do it, Ijust wanted to get it for free
and so I hosted a party for herand then by the time I was done,
I again direct sales can have avery culty vibe, so I was very

(45:18):
cautious of not stepping intospaces like that because of my
history.
But I saw it was a reallyinnovative product and I was
like I think this can sell andactually do something good for
me.
So I hopped in by the end ofthat summer and it actually did
like it paid for groceries andcar that summer and it actually
did like it paid for groceriesand car repairs here and there
as we needed it it was.
It was a good little thing tokind of keep our finances

(45:41):
floating better.
But during that time I met somereally cool women and I started
to rebuild community and noneof us are really active in that
anymore, but we all kind ofconnected, I think, because we
wanted to do things differentlyin that space, and we ended up
in a coaching group and in thatcoaching group I really thought

(46:04):
I was getting like Instagramstrategy to do better at like
connecting with people andputting the product out there
and I had no idea the healingjourney that they were all about
to help me dive into and it wasjust like a 12 week, like I
don't know, like a masterclasskind of thing.
And she started yeah, shestarted with, like the first

(46:27):
meditation and like lesson shegave us was on forgiveness and I
was like what the actual freakI don't like?
This is space I don't reallywant to go into Because in my
mind, like I healed from allthat I was done and the exercise
she had us do was so healingthat every single module she had
for us after that I just dovein and ate it up and it helped

(46:49):
me transition my mindset so muchfrom living in that space of
feeling lacking to like I lostmy community.
But I can go find a newcommunity and build clients.
And I took a $10 workshop andin that workshop, in the middle

(47:15):
of it, I was like, oh, I need tocreate a subscription box for
moms who feel overwhelmed andneed to learn how to love
themselves.
And I was like what, this isthe dumbest idea ever.
My, my crew, my mom tribe, thatI was business crew was they're
going to talk me out of it.
And as soon as I brought it tothem that night they were like
Nope, this, this is you.
This sums you up perfectlybecause you're, you are able to

(47:40):
bring a fun aspect to things andalso help people kind of find
fun on the other side of healingand that is in my opinion, so
important because healing andtrauma can be such heavy work,
depending on what you've gonethrough and you know it's, and I
know people have gone throughstuff that's far worse than what

(48:02):
I ever lived through, and maybethe person next to me has no
idea what I've been through, butwe've all have something that
we've.
That's been a challenge.
And for me to be able to helpanother woman take her challenge
, you know, offer her some ofthe tools Again, I haven't
created any classes, but Ifollow really helpful, educated

(48:25):
women who are out there doingthe work and for me to be able
to say, hey, here's this greatpodcast, hey, here's this really
helpful book, hey, here's agreat community.
I found If maybe they resonatewith you to be able to do that
but also to box it up so shefinds the ability to treat
herself because this goes backto me being worthy.

(48:45):
I didn't do anything for myself.
I made good money when I was asingle woman and I didn't spend
a dime of it on myself.
You know it was, it was part ofmy money mindset that I had to
work through and it literallyjust this summer I realized that
I I worked through the firstpiece, which was my childhood
trauma from money.

(49:05):
But I didn't work through thetrauma of what I went through,
as in an abusive marriage, overthe money that I earned and
brought into our home and I,just this summer, those layers
came off.
So it's not, you know,healing's not, it's not.
There's so much that you canexperience in life that it's not

(49:28):
.
Not that you'll never be healed, but I feel like there's always
layers that you can workthrough and grow through and
bring yourself to a differentspace, and I just I love that.
Like, honestly, I didn't want tostart a subscription box for
women.
I just felt compelled to and itwas like the idea was out of

(49:49):
nowhere.
It wasn't like I was sittingaround going what can I do for a
business that would help women.
It just was like I was doingsomething fun.
I was doing quarterlysubscriptions for my current
customers and it wasn't huge, itwasn't on a big scale.
It was like five or six peoplebought them.
They liked them, I had funputting them together.
But being able to take, like allthe things that I spent time

(50:11):
learning over the years andhelping me and my healing
journey and my thriving journey,and help put that in a space
where a woman can sit down andenjoy a box of fun stuff, but
also like dive intounderstanding, you know,
grounding tools and whatmeditation is and how journaling
can help you and noteverything's for everyone Like

(50:34):
they're like.
I would love to tell you thatI'm the person who journals
every single day and it's ithelps me thrive.
I like journaling.
But even today I was like Iwonder why it's something that I
just can't wrap my head arounddaily and I don't know why it's
just.
But there are other things thatdo nourish me daily, you know.
And so that's kind of where itcame from is just being in a

(50:57):
space where I was allowingmyself to be vulnerable and heal
and connect with other women,and then, boom, this kind of
like fell in my lap, just like,okay, I guess this is what I'm
meant to do.
And so I just started,immediately started like
researching and trying tounderstand.
You know what it is like.
What does it really mean when Isay I want to experience self

(51:21):
love?
You know, I spent my whole lifebeing told that I wasn't worthy
of love and that the onlyreason I was loved is because
you know we can do and produce.
Yeah, exactly so it, you knowit's, but to be able to kind of
understand that and teachsomeone else that maybe maybe
didn't grow up similar to me butstill doesn't really understand

(51:42):
how to value themselves, and aspart of, like, that community
that Grace is building.

Speaker 2 (51:48):
Uh, in the episode notes, you guys are going to
have an affirmations wallpaper,courtesy of Grace.
So thank you so much forpouring into the moms and to the
women and to all we have walkedthrough these shadows of
religious trauma.
I want you to know that yourfeelings are valid and that what
you're going through isincredibly real and challenging

(52:11):
through is incredibly real andchallenging.
It is okay to feel confused,hurt, angry about your
experience, that you are notalone in this journey, that it
may feel like sometimes you'reliving a different life, a
different relationship, or likeyou are in a different time zone
.
It's like I call it, in atwilight zone.

(52:31):
Your relationships and yourbeliefs will change, but I
challenge you to face them, togo get the help that you need,
either with a therapist, with acoach or even with a trust
friend, and remember we have toinvite those friends.
But you are going to strip awaythat and build a new community.

(52:54):
If you take anything from ourtwo communities, we have
communities because we werestripped out of them yeah so we
just build a community that hassense of belonging, that all
parts of you are identified inlove and care, and it's
important to remember that beingloved also means taking
responsibility and takinginventory of what, like Grace

(53:18):
and I, we have told you.
We wish we could tell you thatwe were also graceful in
everything, in every single partof our lives, because healing
is messy and healing.
It takes a lot of forms, but oneform that doesn't take is
hurting others.
One form that doesn't take isblaming others for certain

(53:40):
things that we do.
It's important to remember thatit's okay to question, to seek
through and to find what trulybrings you peace to your soul
and sometimes doesn't look likeeverybody else.
So take your time, heal andunderstand that healing is not
linear.
It's actually a whole bunch ofthings that you have to shed and

(54:03):
put back together, almost likeLegos.
Some days may feel like stepbackwards, but every day is a
push through.
Every day is a push through.
You are rediscovering who youare and why you believe in a way
for fear and constraints ofsociety.
Sometimes we don't do that.
Like you say, I was fearful toleave a job because it's what it

(54:26):
produces, and, as a woman,sometimes we are feared to leave
a relationship, a community, afriendship.
It's okay to mourn the losses,but it's more okay to celebrate
that small victories along thatpath of recovery.
So seek support from those whounderstand and can empathize
with you Therapist, supportgroups, friends, online events

(54:47):
like we did, we did onlineevents, community events that
offer understanding andacceptance necessary to move
forward in your life, to live,feel free, authentically you,
with beliefs that uplift you,not that pain you, and remember,
rebuilding life in our ownterms is always a goal.
So, grace, it was an amazingtalk.

(55:09):
I just so delightful to haveyou and I know everybody in our
community is going to love youin where we can find you.

Speaker 1 (55:18):
Uh, you can find me.
First of all, thank you so muchfor having me.
I had no idea, um, how much youand I had in common, and I love
that because I felt the firsttime I and I you may not even
remember the first time I metyou online was in a workshop and
I just was so drawn to you andI didn't even remember.
The first time I met you onlinewas in a workshop.
Yeah, and I just was so drawnto you and I didn't even know at
the time how much we had incommon.
Um, and I just love that whenyou just land with the right

(55:41):
people but you can find me oh,go ahead.

Speaker 2 (55:45):
No, that's okay, I was like and you know what other
thing I discovered?
So back at home, before I cameto United States, I'm a
professional musician, like Ihave a great.
I never done to sing, that'snot my thing.
I can't sing for the life of me.
I always wanted to, but I don'thave the voice.
So we shared that love formusic too and I was like when
you were saying that, I was like, oh my god, I totally

(56:07):
understand when you have to goto, like the holidays, concerts
and stuff like that.
Um so, yes, I didn't realizeeither how much we have in
common.
I just when we met online Iknew you, but it was when we met
in person.
I got to hug you and squeezeyou.
I'm all about energy withpeople, so it was such a

(56:28):
connection.
So, Grace, I am so grateful tohave you, but I'm sorry to
interrupt.
So where we can find you.

Speaker 1 (56:35):
You can find me.
I spend most of my time inpublic spaces.
On Instagram, you can find meat love those vibes box.
I spend a lot of time there.
I do have a personal account,but I have more fun on the love
those vibes account.
The personal account was morefor my photography and my kids,
and my kids no longer want theirpictures taken and posted, so I

(56:56):
respect that.
They don't want them taken atall, but definitely not posted
if we do take them.
So I spent a lot of time andlove those vibes box.
I have fun over there.
I share all kinds of self lovetools that I'm learning there
and you can also, as Saturdaymentioned, there will be a link
where you can hop on my emaillist and download.
I created fun phone wallaffirmation like wallpaper

(57:19):
affirmations for your phone.
But there's some other funstuff in that bundle as well,
just things that I have recentlyshared in a workshop I did this
summer and yeah, so hop on thatemail list.
I don't email daily because Iknow how it is when you want to
connect with someone and thenthey email you every day and
you're like I don't have time toread them all, but I do email a

(57:39):
couple of times a month andjust kind of share what I'm
learning and what's kind of onmy mind and obviously what
goodies are coming along the wayas well.
So I would love to keep up withyou there.

Speaker 2 (57:51):
Oh, thank you, Grace.
We love you and now you're partof our community and, as I say,
I will put also resources ofsupport groups and how to find
community for religious trauma.
It will be in the notes or inmy Instagram or Oasis community
podcast.
You can find me there as Grace,I have a personal account, but

(58:13):
my personal account is inSpanish, so you know that's that
it's like.
The Oasis is more Spanglish, soyou have English and Spanish
things in there and it's allabout mental health and growth.
So, for everybody, thank you somuch.
I see you until next time andremember all parts of you are
valid, respected and loved.
Loved bye.

(58:34):
Let me stop it as we concludetoday's episode.
Take a moment to reflect, beproud of the journey, for every
step that brings you closer towho you trulybrace the kindness
towards yourself, as you did toeach one of our guests, honor

(58:57):
the bravery in your actions andcelebrate the importance of
mental wellness with us.
And remember it's an exercisethat we practice daily.
Continue to grow and flourish,knowing that we are in this
training for our mental wellnesstogether.
We are so proud to have you aspart of our community.

(59:20):
So join us on Instagram atOasis Community Podcast for more
inspiring conversations,valuable resources and supported
content, including journals,worksheets and content in
Spanish.
Exciting things are in thehorizon.
Our Oasis community break roomsare coming soon to grab tools

(59:43):
and take a break for your mentalhealth.
Also, we are featuring oursix-month training ethical
mental health coaching program,designed for new and experienced
coaches, as well as holisticand healing professionals.
Enroll to create a safe andtransformative experience to
your clients.
Links in the bio.
Until next time, take care,stay connected and welcome to

(01:00:10):
our Oasis community.

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