May 16, 2024 • 53 mins
In this heartfelt episode, Dr. K shares his inspiring journey from Kenya to San Diego, highlighting the cultural challenges and triumphs along the way. Reflecting on their days in community college, the conversation emphasizes the vital role of mentorship and support systems in overcoming adversity. Dr. K's narrative illustrates the profound impact of mental strength in the medical field and the importance of empathy in patient care.
The episode delves into the demands of medical school and the emotional toll on healthcare providers, discussing the complexities behind patient compliance and the stigma of the 'noncompliant' label in disadvantaged communities. Strategies for managing stress, including meditation and gardening, are explored as tools for maintaining mental wellness in high-stress careers.
As the episode concludes, it celebrates resilience born from failure and invites listeners to embrace mental wellness through initiatives like Oasis Community break rooms and ethical mental health coaching programs. The podcast aims to foster a supportive environment where self-care is a shared journey, offering transformation, inspiration, and a community that values mental health as the cornerstone of a fulfilling life.
Disclaimer: It's essential to note that while I am a therapist, this podcast is not a substitute for therapy. The stories and discussions shared here are meant to inform and inspire but should not replace professional advice or support. If you or someone you know is struggling, please seek help from a professional therapist or contact a helpline.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Hello beautiful souls , and welcome to Oroasis
Community Podcast.
I am Dr Roldan, your host.
I am a doctor in clinicalpsychology, a BIPOC therapist
professor and a mindful somaticcoach.
While I am a therapist,remember I'm not your therapist.
This podcast is not asubstitute for professional
(00:24):
mental health care, but we haveresources in our website and
Instagram to support you in thatsearch.
Join us for a cozy, feltconversation about mental health
, personal growth andmindfulness.
We explore tools to care foryour mind, your body and your
soul.
Check the footnotes fordisclaimer, trigger warnings and
(00:46):
additional resources for eachone of the episodes.
So grab your favorite cup oftea, coffee or hot chocolate,
wrap yourself in a warm blanketand find a coffee spot here with
us to be kind to be brave, loud, loud and strong in your search
(01:06):
of mental health wellness.
Welcome to your oasis.
Hello everybody and welcomeback once more with your hot
beverage or anything that suitsyour soul, and today I have a
guest that I love with all myheart.
We go back back 14 years.
(01:26):
We were reminiscing in our daysof like community college to
now professionals.
So for no further ado, we haveDr K.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
Yeah, like I said, you know, it's been a long time.
We were just talking about thatbeen a long time.
We were just talking about that, um, and uh, you know it's
always.
You know, you know it's alwayssuch a pleasure and happiness
seeing other people that.
You know, I grew up.
We had a dream.
You know what we met.
We had a dream in san diegostate, um, and now we're leaving
(01:58):
it.
You know, that's always soamazing seeing that and thanks
so much for you know inviting meto a wonderful podcast, by the
way.
Speaker 1 (02:07):
Thank you.
So why don't you tell ouraudience what was your dream?
Speaker 2 (02:14):
Yeah.
So you know, my dream was look,you know, it starts way back,
right.
So you know, I was born inKenya and migrated, you know, to
San Diego and at that time, youknow, to be honest, you know, I
didn't know much, I couldn'tspeak English that great, I
(02:38):
hadn't.
You know, I didn't finishschool at that time, right,
because I was just starting highschool back in Kenya.
So, you know, moving here, myfirst goal was obviously to have
an education.
You know, I don't know.
You know most people know, whenyou have a, you know, an
(02:59):
immigrant parent, you know theyjam education, education,
education is the way, right.
So that was my first goal.
Then my first, you know, goaldream and my second one was, you
know, growing up in CityHeights.
That's where I grew up.
Growing up in City Heights, weused to go to Maestra, you know,
(03:23):
la Maestra, la Maestra, laMaestra.
Wow, it's amazing that youremember.
It's been a long time.
Speaker 1 (03:29):
Yes, and just to reference for our audience, we
are in California, in one of themost expensive cities called
San Diego, california, in LaMaestra.
Funny, I work in La Maestra forthe human trafficking unit.
Oh what, yeah, la Maestra funny.
Speaker 2 (03:44):
I work in.
Speaker 1 (03:44):
La Maestra for the human trafficking unit.
Speaker 2 (03:45):
Oh, that's so cool.
Speaker 1 (03:46):
So La Maestra is like social services, a low cost or
free for the population, andCity Heights is the equivalent
of you know is where all ourmixed cultures are and the
economical background of thereis a low income to middle, lower
(04:08):
class.
Um, that's why you have prettymuch everybody I used to live
when I immigrate to here.
Um, the same as kevin, oh, dr kI.
Speaker 2 (04:22):
I think dr k dr olden , then I'll call you that yeah.
Speaker 1 (04:25):
I know, but I like the ring of it.
Drk, yeah, no, but like thesaying when I immigrate, I
immigrate not speaking English.
I did have a degree when I camehere, but it was worth nothing
because I was a teacher backhome.
So coming here is not.
Oh no, you're not the same andthe same as Kevin.
(04:48):
I live in City HeightsUniversity for a while.
Speaker 2 (04:52):
Yeah, university yeah .
Speaker 1 (04:53):
Yeah, yeah, because you know that's where we go,
because that's the place thateverybody speaks your language
for the most part.
Speaker 2 (05:00):
Yeah, I call it the melting pot.
You know, and you know thediverse community.
But also you know poor healthoutcomes.
You know a lot of.
You know I remember we used togo play basketball in a park
over there I forgot what it'scalled and that's where all the
(05:21):
games were Right.
So I learned a lot of myEnglish, like playing basketball
, like that and just meetingother people.
But you know, at that time Imean seeing that.
You know, because I remember mymom asking me hey, let's go to
La Maestra.
You know, because I have adoctor's appointment right,
because I have a doctor'sappointment right and I'll go.
(05:43):
And you know other women therethey're going down the list of
all the doctors and they'retrying to see who has a name,
like mine, who has an Africanname, because they will
understand me, I mean, that'sthe.
You know, a lot of people youknow believe that.
So that seeing that and seeinghow it was so tough to access
(06:10):
quality care when I was thereinstilled the dream of becoming
a physician.
So, yeah, long, that's a longanswer, but those are my dreams,
you know.
Those are my dream, you know.
Speaker 1 (06:22):
Yeah, and for people, just for high schoolers or
parents that are out there.
You know resources exist.
It's just a question to beasked, right?
I met Kevin Dr K in the BridgeProgram.
Unfortunately they don't haveit anymore at San Diego State,
but it was a program thatbridged colleges to four year
(06:48):
universities and the beauty ofthat is, like you know, you can
go to a UC, an IB school or to astate school.
We were like little kids, youngadults, learning like, oh, this
is what the United States isall about, because they don't
tell you and also they don'ttell you how expensive the
career is going to be.
For a lot of us we can getscholarships, for some other we
(07:13):
don't.
But what was your experiencegoing from the community college
for the four years degree, thento your medical school and then
your residency specialization?
Speaker 2 (07:24):
I specialize in adult medicine in the hospital, so
they call it a hospitalist.
That's what I do.
Now it's internal medicine.
Internal medicine, yeah, yeahyeah, that transition, you're
right, bridges, I'll neverforget Maureen and I always
thank Maureen, or Mama, thecondolences about.
(07:47):
You know, Dr Paolini, you knowhuge, huge mentor that I had and
just a motivator, right, youknow you go to a community
college where you know it's asmall community and everybody's
together.
(08:07):
You can, you know you seefriends, oh yeah, you know, see
people that you, you know youtook classes together.
It's a small, it's a small totransition to.
I went to UCSD, uc San Diego,and that's probably, you know,
it's big, big, big school, right.
So you know you don't have thattogetherness as much the.
(08:30):
You know, for me, I was pre-med, I was doing, you know,
obviously pre-med andunfortunately, a lot of people
who are fortunate orunfortunately people who are
doing pre-med, they're all likeus type A's.
You know we are, we aredetermined to get something and
we're going to go get it.
You see that in classes, yousee that just going around and
(08:57):
stuff.
I think that's when I startedto realize subconsciously about
mental wellness and mentalhealth, because unfortunately,
you know, the pressure of doinggreat in school, like you know,
ucsd compared to GrossmanCollege, is immense.
(09:22):
Right, you have to get thistype of gpa for you to get into
medical school.
So it's always about that boom,boom.
You know doing that and and youforget about yourself, you
forget about your mental.
You know wellness, right and um, and you know what I've
realized is I mean I'm not aspecialist like you.
(09:42):
You know, dr ro, dr Roldan isI'm just.
You know it's what I've learnedmyself right, and what I think
is, the more you get a, you takea hit from your mental wellness
that builds up and eventually,you know, you get into other,
(10:02):
you know realm of other mentalissues depression, anxiety, you
know whatever, whatever it isRight.
So I mean that transition wasrough to ask you a question.
But you know, having mentorslike we just mentioned and
people that can push you and whohave gone through that, you
(10:23):
know, kind of helped a lot.
Speaker 1 (10:24):
Right, right, what kind of struggles do you saw in
yourself or in others around you?
Going from UCSD to medicalschool, then to your residency,
as many people doesn't know,universities depending.
So state schools are a littlemore.
They have, all of them haveresources, but state schools are
(10:46):
normally like all of us gothere, you know, and more
specialized ones, like forscience or for medical school,
like high, demanding careers,you go to UC, so IVs, for
example.
When I was in my undergrad, Iwent to San Diego State, to be
honest, because I was in myundergrad.
I went to Sunday West State, tobe honest, because I was
terrified to go anywhere else,because I didn't know and all my
(11:09):
mentors were there.
As Kevin was saying, mentorshipis important because you need a
parent outside of your house.
Unfortunately, we lost one ofour mentors recently.
We sent condolences in our loveto maureen, which we call it,
or mama bear, in in there,because she she always will
(11:30):
bring cookies and food to all ofus, home cook, because she knew
a lot of us will not have foodor that kind of food, and she
will explain this is americanfood and we're like, yeah, um,
also, uh, we have uh, which Icall it my parents, the Martins,
dr Martin, she's still mymentor until this day.
(11:51):
I still talk to her and you know, it's important to have
powerhouse people in your corner, but most important, all of
them they were like you need totalk to somebody, you need to
have a group, you need to have asupport system.
And when you pick a school andthis goes to all students out
(12:11):
there that when you pick aschool, don't pick it because of
the name, pick it because ofthe career, pick it because the
support system.
When I was in my master's I gotinto Ivy schools but I was like
I don't think I can live sevenyears here.
And then the culture too.
You know it's very importantthat you chase your dream, but
(12:33):
by chasing you don't forget whoyou are and where you come from
and what kind of support systemyou need.
We are minorities, right?
Speaker 2 (12:42):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:43):
And with that comes different challenges for mental
health.
We don't have as much resourcesin mental health as um our
counterparts may have.
Also, in our families we're notallowed like we will go to
auntie or we will go to thepastor or we will go to even the
, the barbershop or the stylistbefore we go with a therapist.
(13:05):
So what has been yourexperience in your career?
One, how much stress do youhave or, if you will, challenges
that we have for beingminorities?
Also, what benefits have youhave the community?
That because I remember when Iwas in my narrow rotation there
was another person that wasLatino and we were like 50
(13:28):
people and there were only twoof us.
Speaker 2 (13:31):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (13:31):
And yeah it was only two of us we were the little
oddballs and he was like I seeyou, I see you too.
And we became the best friendsever for that same reason,
because we were the only ones.
So yes, can you talk to me alittle bit about, and then I
will touch about the stats, uh,about medical schools and um
(13:52):
doctors in mental health yeah,yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:56):
So the challenges that I've had, um, unfortunately
, you know, every time you go ina higher you know graduate
school, you have less.
You know less diversity, lessminorities.
You know it's so important forme.
(14:16):
Like I said, you know, withtime I started becoming more
aware like mental awareness formyself, more aware like mental
awareness for myself, and thatwas one of those things that you
know it's so important tohaving someone you know, a
minority, you know going throughwhat you're going through right
, because that's, you know itkind of.
(14:40):
You know there's there's inert,I guess, connection that they
will understand right.
So like, for example, when Iwas in medical school, you know,
the first year it was rough.
You know they said that it'sbasically like a fire hose down
your throat, you know, withinformation, right, and it got
to a point where, you know, thepressure was so, so, so much
(15:05):
that you know I went into, likeI call it like a mental insult,
meaning like something.
You know it just shook you andmade you different.
So what I did was I was just sotired, mentally exhausted, so I
just went into.
You know, some people saycocoon.
(15:26):
You know I just went quiet, Ijust became quiet because I
couldn't do it.
But everybody saw me, all myother friends saw me, whatever,
and they thought, hey, you know,we all tired, I don't know
what's, you know whatever, butmy friends were actually twins.
They're pretty.
Dr Jeremy Hochstrom andJermaine Hochstrom.
Dr Jeremy Honkstrom andJermaine.
Honkstrom Shout out to them.
(15:48):
Yeah, I know it came to me andsaid hey, man, what's up, what's
going on?
Bro, that's powerful, justasking that.
So that's when I learned thatyou always got to ask.
Even people who look OK or notjust ask that how are they doing
whatever?
So that was tough.
I mean being by yourself, youknow how are they doing whatever
.
So that was tough.
I mean that.
You know being by yourself,having less right.
(16:08):
What was great was when I wentto the community now, now
practicing right.
You see a lot of.
You see a lot of.
You know disadvantagedcommunities.
That's what I see.
You know some patients.
You know disadvantagedcommunities.
That's what I see.
You know some patients.
And you know one thing wealways hear in our world is that
(16:31):
patient is not compliant,meaning patient is not taking
the medications.
Speaker 1 (16:35):
And they were suggested to.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (16:37):
Yeah, but you see, I don't like that term, you know I
know, and you know what is thefunny thing in psychology.
Speaker 1 (16:45):
Or, like you know, we were very hand to hand with
psychiatrists.
We cannot.
In some states psychologistscan prescribe, but in others we
can't.
Speaker 2 (16:54):
In.
Speaker 1 (16:54):
California.
We cannot, but I was.
So you know there is chronicillness, there is a illness and
there is terminal.
Terminal not always means thatyou're gonna be dead, it just
means it progresses.
There's no cure, um, but when Ihave clients, I I'm very, very
strict about talking to themabout.
(17:16):
This is how, for example, whenyou have the flu, right, you
take your little homemaderemedies and try right for the,
because it's really expensive togo to the doctor.
Then when it doesn't go away,it goes through your lungs, or
you know it's not going away, oryou have a sinus infection.
You need medication.
You can pray all you want, youcan do all the home medication
(17:37):
that you want, that you're justmaking more damage for the
prolong of the illness to thepoint that the illness is not
going to go away.
So it's the same with mentalhealth.
If you first stress, like yousay, we got shot with so much
everything culture shock, um,educational shock and you're
like you want me to do what?
I only have eight hours in theday like how am I?
(17:59):
gonna do that.
It's not glamorous.
People always think, oh, it'slike Grey's Anatomy.
No, it's not.
You don't even have energy tothink about romance or anything.
Yeah, you're just crawling outof the event.
But if you are so depletedphysically, emotionally and
(18:19):
mentally and then you're like Ican have something that will
help me, like a supplement, likein this case, it will be.
When I say suggested forpatients, we have to say
suggested, because if we say no,you have to, then don't do.
It also is that, unfortunately,you cannot force people to take
care of themselves, right?
(18:41):
Um, there's a special case,that's forensics, but there's a
story for a different chapter.
But yeah, in our cases it'slike the frustration that we
want to help.
We're not just shoving pillsbecause a lot of people say you
work with pharma.
I was like no, we don't.
Like we really want you to getbetter, but in our communities
(19:02):
we don't believe in medication.
But in our communities we don'tbelieve in medication.
Medication is part of the devilor part of, like the white
person, or they are trying todrug us, et cetera, et cetera.
There is some cultural andsystematic oppression.
That, yes, it is true.
That is history.
We cannot deny that.
(19:22):
We always have been the guineapigs of everything, like in my
country, in Guatemala.
Thanks to us, you guys have thevaccines and medication for
syphilis, how my country stillhasn't, due to that, you know,
because they experiment withthat, um, in anybody out there.
Uh, read the Tuskegee.
I probably it wrong, but I wantto put it in the notes the
(19:44):
Tuskegee experiments.
Speaker 2 (19:46):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:47):
Right.
Speaker 2 (19:48):
That's actually cool.
Where I went to med school wasactually maybe a mile away from
Tuskegee, you know.
So Tuskegee is a college, it isHBCU and it's in Alabama.
Yeah, I went there and I saw it.
The Tuskegee Syphil, I saw thatthe Tuskegee syphilis trial or
the Tuskegee syphilis study yeah, yeah yeah, very true what
(20:10):
you're saying, very true.
Speaker 1 (20:11):
So how do you manage one when you have patients that
come like I'm not gonna takethat one and you're like you
know, you're going frompre-diabetic to now fully
diabetic, kind of thing, rightthe same.
Like you're going from highstress, anxiety to now you have
full blown depression, panicattacks, and we're not going to
(20:35):
deny PTSD.
A lot of medical students, theyhave PTSD and we don't treat
them.
They have ptsd and and we don'ttreat them.
Uh, they have a lot of grief,uh, that you know, having that
kind of stress, not only in theschool but in the daily,
depending how you do, yeah, um,I don't think people know also
(20:58):
how difficult it is for doctorsto be fighting every single day
with insurance.
Speaker 2 (21:02):
Yeah, yeah, that's tough.
Yeah, yeah, you know, insurance, social, you know.
But yeah, it's very tough, youknow, and that's good that we
went back to that because it'simportant, you know, for me.
You know, at first we all havebiases, right?
I?
forgot what the term is, theinside bias.
(21:23):
But you don't know you have it,but you do have it right.
So whenever a patient comes in,you know we say, hey, you gotta
take this.
And they say, no, I don't wantto take that, right.
We're so, yeah, yeah, or youknow.
Or you say, hey, take thismedication, you send it to that
pharmacy.
Then they come back to see you,or sicker, you're like, hey,
(21:46):
did you do it?
It's like no, I didn't want togo pick it up, or whatever.
And you know, of course, we werelike, oh my gosh, you know I'm
going to help you.
You know, throughout my wholejourney, actually, it gave me
(22:07):
the ability to understand andalways to know why, right, why.
A few weeks ago, well, a fewmonths ago, I had a young guy
came in because he had a boneinfection Right it's on his feet
and, and you know, came inbecause he had a bone infection
right it's on his feet.
(22:27):
And you know, the thing is,that was interesting about that
is that you know he didn't haveone leg right, so he only had
one foot right.
So we do, you know, a study, atrial, like MRIs imaging and we
see that the bone is infected,Right.
(22:49):
So the option is, you know,amputation, Right, Very sick,
very sick, very sick, very, verysick patient.
So you know the doctors goesand say, hey, you know you need
amputation or you know infectionis going to go through, you
know, in you and you might die,Right, and he was like no, I
(23:11):
don't want to do that, Right.
Speaker 1 (23:13):
And and I was like OK , fine.
So for me I'm like OK, well, ifyou don't want to do it that's
your choice, right.
Speaker 2 (23:21):
But I went back and I want to understand why.
Why is that, right?
Um, so sat down, I spoke to him, called his mom because he
wanted his mom to be involved.
Um, you know, we talked and theunderstanding was he was scared
to be on a you because we'regoing to take out the whole leg,
(23:45):
right.
But that was not the case.
You know, he was not going totake out the whole leg, he was
only going to be, you know,taking out a toe, right.
So you know, and sitting downand trying to understand that,
hey, it's just a toe, it's notthe whole leg.
Oh, so I can wear my shoes.
(24:05):
Yeah, you can wear your shoes,okay, well, fine, then I don't
want to do that, right, such asmall thing I did Small small
thing, but then it made a hugeimpact to them and the mom I
said, oh my gosh, no doctor'shelp.
Well, you know, know, peopleare different.
(24:27):
Exaggerate, don't get me wrong.
Speaker 1 (24:28):
They say hey, no, doctors ever sat down and
listened to me.
Speaker 2 (24:31):
You know the way you did is is, uh, you know, you sat
down and listened to everythingI had to say and you know and
helping me understand it right,I didn't even sit there too long
, but that's how I put myself inthis people's shoes.
I remember my mom.
Right, my mom would say, hey,go take this antibiotic.
(24:54):
She'd be like, no, I'm nottaking antibiotics, I don't know
what that medication is.
It's going to make me get canceror lose hair, whatever right.
So let me go back to my youknow, or you know my lemon,
honey and and tea, yeah, andginger yeah, right, which I
still do, that, by the way, andit actually works you know right
(25:17):
.
Speaker 1 (25:18):
But then that's what I always tell my patients too,
or clients.
I say look, there's preventable, there is self-suiting and
there is like when we need thebig guns which is like the
medications, right, uh.
And what I love about your storyis the complaint that we all
have, uh, in mental health, wehave the same thing, right, that
we are overflow with patients,that we cannot spend the 15
(25:40):
minutes extra.
Right, and that's what a lot ofus.
We move to private practicesbecause, like, the grinding is
not healthy for the cliniciannor the patient, because the
same I have a chronic illnesslike POTS, where all my POTS is
there, shout out to them.
(26:01):
But it's the same trying toexplain to your doctor that
we're like wait, wait, wait,wait, wait, like don't go, like
they literally them.
But it's the same trying toexplain to your doctor that
we're like wait, wait, wait,wait, like don't go, like they
literally told me it's like, oh,we only have 15 minutes to see
you and it's like, okay, and asa clinician I get it, but as a
patient I don't right.
And then I have, like you,other doctors, friends, and they
(26:23):
always say you know thefrustration that we have because
we know, like you say, if Iwould have spent another five
minutes, I could dig a littlemore and explain a little more
and make a life change, right,but I don't have those five
minutes because somebody else ishere is coding, or X, y and Z.
So the stress that you guyshave, let's now move to.
(26:46):
We know the system needs a lotof tuning.
Right, the system needs a lot,a lot of tuning, and we're not
throwing rocks at the system.
What we're trying to bring isawareness for both sides.
Right, we understand that inthe past, the medical has not
been the friend of minorities,but also we understand that
(27:07):
minorities need to be more inthe field.
That way you can have doctorsthat look like you, that talk
like you and they understandyour environment.
But one thing to the publicthat I want them to understand
is we're losing a lot of peoplethat wants to be in medical.
Also, they have and I will putall the stats in the links below
(27:30):
, but they have for medicalstudents having suicidal
thoughts.
So that means out of your 10students, you have at least 0.4%
.
That's a lot.
You have at least 0.4%.
That's a lot.
That is like almost three ofthem having just those thoughts.
For the same rate, what kind ofresources do you experience
(27:52):
going through your medicalschool and now to get resources
for mental health?
Because I know, for example,for psychologists and therapists
, we have to go through therapyas part of licensure, as part of
continuing education, etc.
So we're kind of mandated to go, even if you don't want to.
And it's true, doctors, we arethe worst Therapists.
(28:16):
We're the worst clients too,because you're like no, I can't
handle it myself.
But for doctors and for medicalstudents, what kind of
resources and setbacks you guyshave in order to search mental
health.
Speaker 2 (28:30):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's a good question.
So in medical school we didhave a counselor that we go and
talk to.
They're very nice.
I mean, they were trying tohelp with education Also.
They had that aspect of it.
I'm pretty sure there was.
You know, it's one of thosethings that you know a lot of
(28:55):
people don't pursue it.
I didn't in medical schoolbecause I was not mentally aware
of myself at that time.
So I'm pretty sure, probablythey have, you know.
You know therapists,psychologists, whoever right,
they can listen to you.
I started noticing it more inresidency because that's when I
started to become more aware andthey do have.
(29:18):
They do offer like, hey, youcan call, you know you can call
someone, you know if you'refeeling X, y, z, so they have
those.
But I think that still has morework to go because we still
have this stigma that you know,if you were requesting help
because of how you feel you seemweak, especially in our careers
(29:42):
, you know you cannot.
Unfortunately you cannot beweak, right, right, because
people will look at youdifferent, like, okay, well, I
think you need time off, then,you know, until you become
stronger, then you can come back, right, right, so I think that
we need more awareness.
You know that it's okay topursue, you know, mental therapy
(30:02):
.
I call it right.
So, yeah, because you know ummental therapy.
I got caught right, so um yeahbecause, you know, I always say
this, but this is my opinion.
Okay, yes, of course this is myopinion.
I say, uh, you know, there'sonly there's two types of people
.
Uh, this is my opinion, this iswhat I say.
There's two type of people thatdon't need mental therapy.
Right, those are liars or deadpeople.
(30:25):
That's all I say.
Because, uh, everybody needs it.
Speaker 1 (30:30):
I think yeah yes, in every shape or form.
I say uh, you know, if, becauseyour career, or x, y and z, you
cannot go see a therapist or aprofessional, there is always
life coaches that will help youto get out of your, your drought
.
There is mentors, there issupport groups.
(30:51):
There is an infinity thing, butof course we don't search for
it until we need it.
But unfortunately, by the timethat we need it, we don't have
the energy to search for itexactly.
Exactly so.
If you are listening, alwaysask the strongest people in your
life how are you doing?
But really ask them, becausethe strongest people, as Kevin
(31:13):
said, we are not allowed to showany weakness.
Right, and it's not a weakness,but that's how the culture has
perpetrated searching for help,because you never say, oh, I cut
my finger, let me go putstitches on it.
Oh, you're so weak, no, right,it's the same.
I got an emotional injurybecause I lost my pet, I lost my
(31:36):
father, I lost somebody in mylife, or I have lost myself in
this process, which is thehardest one, right, when you
lost yourself, what kind ofresources do you use now, or
even back then, to keep yourselfmentally fit?
Because, as everything, youhave to be mentally fit.
(31:57):
What do I mean with that?
I, as a therapist, I domeditation every day, I go for
mindful walks.
I make sure that if I'moverbooked or something, I do
meditation every day, I go formindful walks.
I make sure that if I'moverbooked or something, I take
days off, like I'm very strictabout my fitness mentally, right
, because they need me fit inorder to perform.
So what do you do?
(32:17):
Because, obviously, we takecare of our body, a lot of us.
We take care of our body byexercising X, y and Z eating
well.
So what do you do for yourmental fitness?
Speaker 2 (32:28):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah, that's actually what Iwas saying.
I was about to say that.
You know, just like we go tothe gym to take care of body so
we can be strong, I think wealso need that for our brain as
well.
Right?
So what I do is now, you knowthere's a lot of resources on
YouTube.
I go listen to them.
I like to listen to differentpeople's motivations and
(32:52):
journeys.
Reading books, you know, allthat kind of you know makes me
understand a different side ofit.
I like, you know, hanging out.
You know, hanging out at myplace.
I have a little dog, I think,just you know, having a pet.
I used to be anti-pet, by theway, and now, if you see, just
(33:13):
like what you were saying, likeyou see my, my Instagram is just
pet, pet, pet you become my petparent.
I know which is you know it'samazing, right, I moved down
here.
I'm in pet parent.
I know which is you know it'samazing, right, I moved down
here.
I'm in Florida, vero Beach.
It's close to the beach, so Ilike to go to the beach.
(33:34):
That was one part of myawareness that I learned because
I used to be the person thatsaid man, I cannot go to the
beach alone.
I'm going to be seen as sad orlonely, or I can't go and have
dinner alone.
I can't go to watch a moviealone.
Speaker 1 (33:50):
That's what I was Right, right, right.
Speaker 2 (33:52):
You know I had a therapist.
I used to talk to a therapistand everything, and you know
that was the one thing we workedon.
So now I mean I just go there,you know, I just enjoy it.
You know I enjoy it.
Um, and calling family, Ibelieve that's very important,
you know, because, uh, they,they know that you're on the
side before you became this bigperson, right, they know you as
(34:17):
who you started, as right.
So call them.
We talked to that.
Talk to my mom, you know, um,she's still in san diego.
Um, and I talk to my friends.
So, yeah, all that, I do a lotof planning.
I'm one of those.
I'm gonna have a green tongue.
I do a lot of uh.
I think, uh, gardening andstuff like that it gives me a
(34:38):
little bit of uh, you know peace, so I like do that, like
watching something grow andstuff like that.
Speaker 1 (34:44):
So, yeah, so what they say have unconditional love
, which is your pet.
Have somebody to take care innature, which is your pet plants
, and then have encounters withnature alone, which is your
walks in the beach.
And it must be a San Diegothing too, because I have to go
to the beach.
And it must be a San Diegothing too, because I have to go
(35:05):
to the beach at least threetimes a week, like when I'm
feeling stressed, I'm like I'mgoing, I'm just gonna get lost
for an hour in the in the beach,or just sit on it and uh, for
people out there, just beingclose to water, it kind, it
generates a little moreendorphins and serotonin than
you.
Having at least 15 minutes inthe sun also levels your
(35:30):
serotonin levels in brightcolors, believe it or not.
That's why you see brightcolors can help increase your
dopamine, which increase yourenergy, which increase your mood
.
So if you think about I callmental health like a jenga or
blocks, you put blocks thatbuilt or you take, blow blocks
(35:53):
out that they move right, forexample.
I don't believe in the.
I know we need it, but it's notfeasible.
When we were students.
We eat in the run.
We will eat like walking andstudying, and that is not
healthy.
Like food has meant to nourishyour mind and your body.
And I love what you say abouttalking to family for all our
(36:17):
audience.
That for some reason you havestrained family members or you
don't talk to your birth family,that's okay.
Okay too, we create our familywherever we go.
Like, if you say our friends,we always have the one that,
like our birth family, that willstay with us, of course, but
that's not the case of everybody, unfortunately.
But we want to just offereverybody out there that family
(36:41):
is the one that we make.
Like, for example, we have lostkind of like cousins and
parents and adoptive friendsthat they become more brothers
and sisters because proximityright.
But I love even though hebrushed it a little bit like Dr
Kevin went to therapy.
Do you hear that future doctors?
(37:02):
He went to therapy and becauseof I'm not saying just because
of that, but because of thathe's kind of like he get like a
mental kind of coach to, oh,let's go and be our best type A
ever.
That is for all theCrossFitters out there.
When you see one, you're like,how do you guys do that?
Like how, it's because theyhave somebody that has them to
(37:23):
train, right?
So I'm glad that you got thatin your education and in your
life.
And the pet parent, I mean, whodoesn't love a pet?
And it can be anything.
Right, it doesn't have to be adog, it doesn't have to be a cat
.
They have horses, they ponies,they have chickens and, why not?
(37:45):
A college student is listeningto you and it feels overwhelming
like I want to go to medicalschool and, oh, I want to become
a doctor.
You know tv, right?
Uh, everybody thinks that goingto school for medical school
it's like race anatomy orchicago med or any of those.
Right, depending yourgeneration, that's the one that
(38:07):
you see.
Um, I'm a firm believer to, yes, please go to tech, to the
online platforms, but always bemindful and careful to who you
listen to.
Always try I always say try tolisten a few different ones,
especially if they contradicteach other, because then in
between a and b, you have theanswer right.
(38:27):
Uh, because it's very importantto know different uh points of
views.
Like you know, like I say, Ilearned in the past.
I was always like no, everybodyneeds therapy, right, and I
understand that because, uh, inthe culture right now, I
understand, no, some people needfirst the baby step.
That is maybe a coach or uhgoing to their church or going
(38:51):
the baby step right.
So I pride myself to go andtrain people in those areas,
because not everybody's trainedfor, for mental awareness and
mental fitness, right, um, butwe all can collaborate together
to do it.
So what is your point, as youwill say to that little baby
(39:12):
medical student or how do youthink like one-on-one survival
kit for school and residency?
Mostly, if you are listening.
Speaker 2 (39:22):
Yeah, oh, the biggest thing I learned is that don't
be scared of failure.
You know and do not.
And if you do, do not usefailure as a currency to
determine your future, becauseit's not right.
That's one of the things I hadto learn, you know probably you
(39:46):
don't know this when I was,actually when I was in UCSD.
I kind of you did mention it inthe beginning.
You have really, really goodpoints.
I love it.
I love it.
Actually, that's why I listento your podcast all the time.
This is good, you know.
So you know, when I was in UCSDd, I kind of forgot who.
(40:08):
I was, right, and I thought Iwas, you know, the smartest kid,
right?
I mean, I came from kenya.
I went to get my ged because Icouldn't.
I didn't go to high school, Iwent to grossman college.
I was a math tutor.
I did all this.
Now I'm in UCSD, I'm doinghuman biology.
You know all this stuff, right?
I forgot.
So I went and I took the MCAT.
(40:30):
So MCAT is the, you know, firstexam to get into medical school
, right?
So I took the MCAT and I failedit.
I failed it.
The thing is I had told myfriends before that I was going
to go to med school, no matterwhat.
Speaker 1 (40:46):
Right.
Speaker 2 (40:47):
Right.
So when I failed and I did noteven get an interview to get
into medical school, I went tohigh school Right.
And because that failuredetermined who I was at that
time, so I am not fit to be outthere.
(41:07):
Because I failed, right I wentto hiding and I was tough,
really, really tough moment.
So I had to dig myself out ofthat right.
So the first thing I tell thosepeople who want to do it you
know medical school, any, any,any occupation, any professional
, whatever you want to dofailure, do not be scared of it.
You know medical school, any,any, any occupation, any
professional, whatever you wantto do failure, do not be scared
(41:28):
of them.
You know those are the ones.
You know they actually push you, catapult you forward, because
now you fail, now you knowthat's possible, that you're
human.
Now let's keep on going Right.
That's one.
The second thing is you knowyou also mentioned just because
you have a mentor, those are notthe mentors that you're going
to have for the rest of yourlife.
(41:49):
Sometimes that's not the case.
Remember, mentors are like um,uh, stepping stone, I see yeah
right.
The only difference is they'relike giants.
You know, like isaac newtonsaid, know I can see further
because I stood on the shouldersof giants.
Those stepping stones are giants, yes, and you just jump.
(42:10):
You know each one of them.
I have a lot of mentors and wekeep, as we go, move forward
because I find someone new whocan lead me and guide me through
that process.
When I'm done with the process,find somebody new and go on.
So having mentors is veryimportant and, just like what
you just mentioned, you know weall look for a personal trainer,
(42:31):
but I will add a personalphysical trainer and that's fine
, because that's accepted right.
Right, but we also need apersonal mental trainer.
You know, and that's what thetherapies are.
You know.
I think that's's very, veryimportant because it's these
things that we know all ofourselves.
(42:51):
Like you know, you can go liftdumbbells and gain, but these
other exercises to build othermuscles, right, you know?
Hey, you know what, if I listento music, I feel soothing, I'm
fine.
Well, that's just the bicep,right are the muscles in your
brain.
You know, in your brain thatneeds training and that's why
(43:12):
you need a personal mentaltrainer.
Um, so, I have those, and youknow, and, like I said, I'm
becoming more aware and I thinkI believe nobody becomes fully
aware Like, oh, I've learnedeverything, now I am good.
No, it's evolving, right, right, and you keep on learning more
(43:34):
and more and more.
So, yeah, so that's what I do.
Speaker 1 (43:38):
Oh, I love that.
And just to you know, and toeverybody listening, I'm a firm
believer that failure just is anindicator of why you have to
try again.
Meaning the same right.
So for medical school is theMCAT, for law school is the LSAT
and for general, everythingelse is the.
Oh, I even forgot the name ofit.
(43:59):
What is it?
I repeat it three times.
I know, hold on G-CAT.
No, I forgot what is it.
I repeat it three timesprobably.
Speaker 2 (44:08):
I put it in the back.
I know hold on.
Speaker 1 (44:09):
Um, no, I forgot.
I, if you know, put it in thecomments because I totally my
brain went blank, probablybecause it was so traumatic.
I repeated three times and Iknow it was like but instead of
I didn't went in hiding, I wentin like what do I?
Why I'm failing this test thatyou know?
I know my IQ is pretty high.
So I was like what is wrongwith me?
(44:29):
And then we discovered therewas nothing wrong with me.
The test is a little biased, aswe know, all this kind of tests
are not created mostly for ourcommunity, so there is questions
that we question even more thanwe shouldn't.
And then it only took oneperson.
It always takes one person toborrow belief.
For you, what?
Speaker 2 (44:50):
do I mean?
Speaker 1 (44:52):
I was like I'm done, this is as far as I can go,
because you know, three times istoo many times.
And then one of the mentors waslike no, no, let's sit down.
There is other schools or otherprograms that you can apply,
that they necessarily need thistest.
And I was like they are notgoing to want me.
Or they were like, oh, theywant the test just to be taken,
but not really.
(45:12):
And I did that.
And then you know, when youtook the belief that you're a
failure, I have this crazybelief in, like you know, just
do it.
And the worst thing is, I know,right.
So I applied to all the IBschools, I applied to a lot of
schools and I put my story and Iput this in X, y and Z and I
(45:34):
was like I'm not going to get in, it's okay, I just want to try
it.
Speaker 2 (45:38):
Right.
Speaker 1 (45:39):
Then I got in in seven schools, wow, and I was
like, ah.
And then it was the choicewhere do I go right?
What I'm saying is what youconsider failure sometimes is
(46:07):
just the break of the next step,that you're goingdivergent, or
you have invisible disabilities,or you are a minority.
There's other ways to do things, because you know one fits done
all right.
Yes, you look cute in the sameoutfit, but there is other
outfits that you can try and ifyou take anything out of this
conversation, it will be one, ofcourse.
Follow your dreams that they docome true, but they don't come
(46:27):
easy yeah uh, there's gonna be alot of sacrifices that you're
going to do, but you don't haveto sacrifice your mental
wellness and your physicalwellness.
If you sacrifice that, there isno end, right?
Right, because we become people.
Places are giving little piecesof ourselves, and if you get
(46:48):
pieces of yourself, then youlose yourself, but you can
reinvent yourself over and over.
So even if you're lost outthere, just remember there is
help out there, there's supportgroups and there is going to be
all those resources.
In the notes also below thereis, if people didn't know, there
is also support groups globallyfor medical students that you
(47:10):
can go and talk about mentalhealth, mental fitness, and even
if you're a physician, there isplaces that you can go and talk
to a therapist.
So do you have any last notesfor our audience?
Speaker 2 (47:25):
Yeah, I mean, obviously, you know I'm thankful
you invited me and talk aboutthis and you know it's very,
it's always so nice sharing, youknow, our past, because I wish
I listened to myself when I wasyounger, to this person Right,
(47:47):
so I could know, wow, you know Igot to keep on pushing.
Or other people like, oh man,there's somebody who's going
through what I'm going throughand they did it Right.
So that's important.
And obviously, like I said, youknow, just because you go into
therapy does not mean that's theend.
Right, we continue building ourbrain, our mental you know,
(48:12):
mental wellness.
We continue building.
So continue doing what you doRight, whatever it is, you do,
continue doing that.
And so happy that you were soyou know, look at you.
And so happy that you were, soyou know, look at you, you know,
so happy that you know we getto talk about this on your
wonderful podcast.
OK, I love it, love it, love it.
Speaker 1 (48:32):
Thank you.
And if people want to find youor follow your doggy, if you
don't know that your doggy hasan Instagram right.
Speaker 2 (48:39):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (48:41):
Spartacus the doodle.
So if you want to know aboutthe little fur baby, he's a
cutie.
Please go follow him at can Ishow?
Him.
Of course you can show him.
Speaker 2 (48:54):
Yes, they want to meet you.
Speaker 1 (48:58):
That's Spartacus the doodle so you can go follow him
in Instagram.
And for you.
Where are you?
What are you doing?
Speaker 2 (49:09):
yeah, so I mean, uh, I mean, uh, I'm in the east side
of florida, I'm a hospitaldoctor, internal medicine, um,
and uh, that's what I do, that'swhat that's, that's where my
life is right now.
Speaker 1 (49:26):
And, let's say, somebody felt really impactful
connection with you when theylisten to you let's say a
student or something where theycan find you.
Oh, if not, you can also put itin the comments and I will be
more than happy to connect youwith Dr Kevin if you are feeling
called to like asking myquestion because, like you know,
like because we're now publicfigures, we're also kind of
(49:50):
mentors of a lot of other onesthat they see us up there.
It's like, oh, how do you do it?
So please feel free to eitherput it in the comments and I can
connect it with Dr K or Dr K,do you have any?
Speaker 2 (50:03):
uh, yeah, I mean, uh, yeah, I think that would be the
best way to reach out, but Imean my emails is uh the way to
do it.
Um, I think I did share.
I'll give you my other emailthat you know they can always
reach out to me and I and I willput it in the comments too, so
stay tuned for that.
Speaker 1 (50:20):
This episode will air in our net style.
Thank you so much, dr Kevin.
It was my pleasure, as always,talking to you, seeing how great
you are and remember, eventhough you think people is not
watching your greatness, thereis people watching your
greatness, even if you thinkit's not have a wonderful day.
Thank you so much, dr Olden.
This is like I just said youknow.
Speaker 2 (50:41):
Thank you so much, dr Holden.
This is like I just said.
You know, this is amazingbecause this is those tools to
help a lot of people.
A lot of people need it, youknow.
So you know, this is awesomethat you have this.
I love it.
I always listen to it, andbecause there's always somebody
with something or you just sharesomething and I'm like, wow, I
(51:02):
didn't know that.
You see, I add that to my tools, right, so that's really
awesome.
You're doing great as well.
I see you.
You know, I see you and I'malways, always, always, always
love your messages.
You know, because you know younever know what somebody's going
through and just saying, hey,how's it going, how are you
doing?
Like what you just said?
(51:23):
It means everything.
So I really appreciate youdoing that.
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (51:28):
Thank you Well for everybody.
I see you, I love you and Ihear you.
Until next time.
As we conclude today's episode,take a moment to reflect, be
proud of the journey, for everystep that brings you closer to
who you truly are.
(51:49):
Embrace the kindness towardsyourself as you did to each one
of our guests, honor the braveryin your actions and celebrate
the importance of mentalwellness with us.
And remember it's an exercisethat we practice daily.
Continue to grow and flourish,knowing that we are in this
(52:12):
training for our mental wellnesstogether.
We are so proud to have you aspart of our community, so join
us on Instagram at OasisCommunity Podcast for more
inspiring conversations,valuable resources and supported
content, including journals,worksheets and content in
(52:34):
Spanish.
Exciting things are in thehorizon.
Our Oasis Community break roomsare coming soon to grab tools
and take a break for your mentalhealth are coming soon to grab
tools and take a break for yourmental health.
Also, we are featuring oursix-month training ethical
mental health coaching programdesigned for new and experienced
coaches, as well as holisticand healing professionals.
(52:55):
Enroll to create a safe andtransformative experience to
your clients.
Links in the bio.
Until next time, take care,stay connected and welcome to
our Oasis community.
Hello beautiful souls , and welcome to Oroasis
Community Podcast.
I am Dr Roldan, your host.
I am a doctor in clinicalpsychology, a BIPOC therapist
professor and a mindful somaticcoach.
While I am a therapist,remember I'm not your therapist.
This podcast is not asubstitute for professional
(00:24):
mental health care, but we haveresources in our website and
Instagram to support you in thatsearch.
Join us for a cozy, feltconversation about mental health
, personal growth andmindfulness.
We explore tools to care foryour mind, your body and your
soul.
Check the footnotes fordisclaimer, trigger warnings and
(00:46):
additional resources for eachone of the episodes.
So grab your favorite cup oftea, coffee or hot chocolate,
wrap yourself in a warm blanketand find a coffee spot here with
us to be kind to be brave, loud, loud and strong in your search
(01:06):
of mental health wellness.
Welcome to your oasis.
Hello everybody and welcomeback once more with your hot
beverage or anything that suitsyour soul, and today I have a
guest that I love with all myheart.
We go back back 14 years.
(01:26):
We were reminiscing in our daysof like community college to
now professionals.
So for no further ado, we haveDr K.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
Yeah, like I said, you know, it's been a long time.
We were just talking about thatbeen a long time.
We were just talking about that, um, and uh, you know it's
always.
You know, you know it's alwayssuch a pleasure and happiness
seeing other people that.
You know, I grew up.
We had a dream.
You know what we met.
We had a dream in san diegostate, um, and now we're leaving
(01:58):
it.
You know, that's always soamazing seeing that and thanks
so much for you know inviting meto a wonderful podcast, by the
way.
Speaker 1 (02:07):
Thank you.
So why don't you tell ouraudience what was your dream?
Speaker 2 (02:14):
Yeah.
So you know, my dream was look,you know, it starts way back,
right.
So you know, I was born inKenya and migrated, you know, to
San Diego and at that time, youknow, to be honest, you know, I
didn't know much, I couldn'tspeak English that great, I
(02:38):
hadn't.
You know, I didn't finishschool at that time, right,
because I was just starting highschool back in Kenya.
So, you know, moving here, myfirst goal was obviously to have
an education.
You know, I don't know.
You know most people know, whenyou have a, you know, an
(02:59):
immigrant parent, you know theyjam education, education,
education is the way, right.
So that was my first goal.
Then my first, you know, goaldream and my second one was, you
know, growing up in CityHeights.
That's where I grew up.
Growing up in City Heights, weused to go to Maestra, you know,
(03:23):
la Maestra, la Maestra, laMaestra.
Wow, it's amazing that youremember.
It's been a long time.
Speaker 1 (03:29):
Yes, and just to reference for our audience, we
are in California, in one of themost expensive cities called
San Diego, california, in LaMaestra.
Funny, I work in La Maestra forthe human trafficking unit.
Oh what, yeah, la Maestra funny.
Speaker 2 (03:44):
I work in.
Speaker 1 (03:44):
La Maestra for the human trafficking unit.
Speaker 2 (03:45):
Oh, that's so cool.
Speaker 1 (03:46):
So La Maestra is like social services, a low cost or
free for the population, andCity Heights is the equivalent
of you know is where all ourmixed cultures are and the
economical background of thereis a low income to middle, lower
(04:08):
class.
Um, that's why you have prettymuch everybody I used to live
when I immigrate to here.
Um, the same as kevin, oh, dr kI.
Speaker 2 (04:22):
I think dr k dr olden , then I'll call you that yeah.
Speaker 1 (04:25):
I know, but I like the ring of it.
Drk, yeah, no, but like thesaying when I immigrate, I
immigrate not speaking English.
I did have a degree when I camehere, but it was worth nothing
because I was a teacher backhome.
So coming here is not.
Oh no, you're not the same andthe same as Kevin.
(04:48):
I live in City HeightsUniversity for a while.
Speaker 2 (04:52):
Yeah, university yeah .
Speaker 1 (04:53):
Yeah, yeah, because you know that's where we go,
because that's the place thateverybody speaks your language
for the most part.
Speaker 2 (05:00):
Yeah, I call it the melting pot.
You know, and you know thediverse community.
But also you know poor healthoutcomes.
You know a lot of.
You know I remember we used togo play basketball in a park
over there I forgot what it'scalled and that's where all the
(05:21):
games were Right.
So I learned a lot of myEnglish, like playing basketball
, like that and just meetingother people.
But you know, at that time Imean seeing that.
You know, because I remember mymom asking me hey, let's go to
La Maestra.
You know, because I have adoctor's appointment right,
because I have a doctor'sappointment right and I'll go.
(05:43):
And you know other women therethey're going down the list of
all the doctors and they'retrying to see who has a name,
like mine, who has an Africanname, because they will
understand me, I mean, that'sthe.
You know, a lot of people youknow believe that.
So that seeing that and seeinghow it was so tough to access
(06:10):
quality care when I was thereinstilled the dream of becoming
a physician.
So, yeah, long, that's a longanswer, but those are my dreams,
you know.
Those are my dream, you know.
Speaker 1 (06:22):
Yeah, and for people, just for high schoolers or
parents that are out there.
You know resources exist.
It's just a question to beasked, right?
I met Kevin Dr K in the BridgeProgram.
Unfortunately they don't haveit anymore at San Diego State,
but it was a program thatbridged colleges to four year
(06:48):
universities and the beauty ofthat is, like you know, you can
go to a UC, an IB school or to astate school.
We were like little kids, youngadults, learning like, oh, this
is what the United States isall about, because they don't
tell you and also they don'ttell you how expensive the
career is going to be.
For a lot of us we can getscholarships, for some other we
(07:13):
don't.
But what was your experiencegoing from the community college
for the four years degree, thento your medical school and then
your residency specialization?
Speaker 2 (07:24):
I specialize in adult medicine in the hospital, so
they call it a hospitalist.
That's what I do.
Now it's internal medicine.
Internal medicine, yeah, yeahyeah, that transition, you're
right, bridges, I'll neverforget Maureen and I always
thank Maureen, or Mama, thecondolences about.
(07:47):
You know, Dr Paolini, you knowhuge, huge mentor that I had and
just a motivator, right, youknow you go to a community
college where you know it's asmall community and everybody's
together.
(08:07):
You can, you know you seefriends, oh yeah, you know, see
people that you, you know youtook classes together.
It's a small, it's a small totransition to.
I went to UCSD, uc San Diego,and that's probably, you know,
it's big, big, big school, right.
So you know you don't have thattogetherness as much the.
(08:30):
You know, for me, I was pre-med, I was doing, you know,
obviously pre-med andunfortunately, a lot of people
who are fortunate orunfortunately people who are
doing pre-med, they're all likeus type A's.
You know we are, we aredetermined to get something and
we're going to go get it.
You see that in classes, yousee that just going around and
(08:57):
stuff.
I think that's when I startedto realize subconsciously about
mental wellness and mentalhealth, because unfortunately,
you know, the pressure of doinggreat in school, like you know,
ucsd compared to GrossmanCollege, is immense.
(09:22):
Right, you have to get thistype of gpa for you to get into
medical school.
So it's always about that boom,boom.
You know doing that and and youforget about yourself, you
forget about your mental.
You know wellness, right and um, and you know what I've
realized is I mean I'm not aspecialist like you.
(09:42):
You know, dr ro, dr Roldan isI'm just.
You know it's what I've learnedmyself right, and what I think
is, the more you get a, you takea hit from your mental wellness
that builds up and eventually,you know, you get into other,
(10:02):
you know realm of other mentalissues depression, anxiety, you
know whatever, whatever it isRight.
So I mean that transition wasrough to ask you a question.
But you know, having mentorslike we just mentioned and
people that can push you and whohave gone through that, you
(10:23):
know, kind of helped a lot.
Speaker 1 (10:24):
Right, right, what kind of struggles do you saw in
yourself or in others around you?
Going from UCSD to medicalschool, then to your residency,
as many people doesn't know,universities depending.
So state schools are a littlemore.
They have, all of them haveresources, but state schools are
(10:46):
normally like all of us gothere, you know, and more
specialized ones, like forscience or for medical school,
like high, demanding careers,you go to UC, so IVs, for
example.
When I was in my undergrad, Iwent to San Diego State, to be
honest, because I was in myundergrad.
I went to Sunday West State, tobe honest, because I was
terrified to go anywhere else,because I didn't know and all my
(11:09):
mentors were there.
As Kevin was saying, mentorshipis important because you need a
parent outside of your house.
Unfortunately, we lost one ofour mentors recently.
We sent condolences in our loveto maureen, which we call it,
or mama bear, in in there,because she she always will
(11:30):
bring cookies and food to all ofus, home cook, because she knew
a lot of us will not have foodor that kind of food, and she
will explain this is americanfood and we're like, yeah, um,
also, uh, we have uh, which Icall it my parents, the Martins,
dr Martin, she's still mymentor until this day.
(11:51):
I still talk to her and you know, it's important to have
powerhouse people in your corner, but most important, all of
them they were like you need totalk to somebody, you need to
have a group, you need to have asupport system.
And when you pick a school andthis goes to all students out
(12:11):
there that when you pick aschool, don't pick it because of
the name, pick it because ofthe career, pick it because the
support system.
When I was in my master's I gotinto Ivy schools but I was like
I don't think I can live sevenyears here.
And then the culture too.
You know it's very importantthat you chase your dream, but
(12:33):
by chasing you don't forget whoyou are and where you come from
and what kind of support systemyou need.
We are minorities, right?
Speaker 2 (12:42):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:43):
And with that comes different challenges for mental
health.
We don't have as much resourcesin mental health as um our
counterparts may have.
Also, in our families we're notallowed like we will go to
auntie or we will go to thepastor or we will go to even the
, the barbershop or the stylistbefore we go with a therapist.
(13:05):
So what has been yourexperience in your career?
One, how much stress do youhave or, if you will, challenges
that we have for beingminorities?
Also, what benefits have youhave the community?
That because I remember when Iwas in my narrow rotation there
was another person that wasLatino and we were like 50
(13:28):
people and there were only twoof us.
Speaker 2 (13:31):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (13:31):
And yeah it was only two of us we were the little
oddballs and he was like I seeyou, I see you too.
And we became the best friendsever for that same reason,
because we were the only ones.
So yes, can you talk to me alittle bit about, and then I
will touch about the stats, uh,about medical schools and um
(13:52):
doctors in mental health yeah,yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:56):
So the challenges that I've had, um, unfortunately
, you know, every time you go ina higher you know graduate
school, you have less.
You know less diversity, lessminorities.
You know it's so important forme.
(14:16):
Like I said, you know, withtime I started becoming more
aware like mental awareness formyself, more aware like mental
awareness for myself, and thatwas one of those things that you
know it's so important tohaving someone you know, a
minority, you know going throughwhat you're going through right
, because that's, you know itkind of.
(14:40):
You know there's there's inert,I guess, connection that they
will understand right.
So like, for example, when Iwas in medical school, you know,
the first year it was rough.
You know they said that it'sbasically like a fire hose down
your throat, you know, withinformation, right, and it got
to a point where, you know, thepressure was so, so, so much
(15:05):
that you know I went into, likeI call it like a mental insult,
meaning like something.
You know it just shook you andmade you different.
So what I did was I was just sotired, mentally exhausted, so I
just went into.
You know, some people saycocoon.
(15:26):
You know I just went quiet, Ijust became quiet because I
couldn't do it.
But everybody saw me, all myother friends saw me, whatever,
and they thought, hey, you know,we all tired, I don't know
what's, you know whatever, butmy friends were actually twins.
They're pretty.
Dr Jeremy Hochstrom andJermaine Hochstrom.
Dr Jeremy Honkstrom andJermaine.
Honkstrom Shout out to them.
(15:48):
Yeah, I know it came to me andsaid hey, man, what's up, what's
going on?
Bro, that's powerful, justasking that.
So that's when I learned thatyou always got to ask.
Even people who look OK or notjust ask that how are they doing
whatever?
So that was tough.
I mean being by yourself, youknow how are they doing whatever
.
So that was tough.
I mean that.
You know being by yourself,having less right.
(16:08):
What was great was when I wentto the community now, now
practicing right.
You see a lot of.
You see a lot of.
You know disadvantagedcommunities.
That's what I see.
You know some patients.
You know disadvantagedcommunities.
That's what I see.
You know some patients.
And you know one thing wealways hear in our world is that
(16:31):
patient is not compliant,meaning patient is not taking
the medications.
Speaker 1 (16:35):
And they were suggested to.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (16:37):
Yeah, but you see, I don't like that term, you know I
know, and you know what is thefunny thing in psychology.
Speaker 1 (16:45):
Or, like you know, we were very hand to hand with
psychiatrists.
We cannot.
In some states psychologistscan prescribe, but in others we
can't.
Speaker 2 (16:54):
In.
Speaker 1 (16:54):
California.
We cannot, but I was.
So you know there is chronicillness, there is a illness and
there is terminal.
Terminal not always means thatyou're gonna be dead, it just
means it progresses.
There's no cure, um, but when Ihave clients, I I'm very, very
strict about talking to themabout.
(17:16):
This is how, for example, whenyou have the flu, right, you
take your little homemaderemedies and try right for the,
because it's really expensive togo to the doctor.
Then when it doesn't go away,it goes through your lungs, or
you know it's not going away, oryou have a sinus infection.
You need medication.
You can pray all you want, youcan do all the home medication
(17:37):
that you want, that you're justmaking more damage for the
prolong of the illness to thepoint that the illness is not
going to go away.
So it's the same with mentalhealth.
If you first stress, like yousay, we got shot with so much
everything culture shock, um,educational shock and you're
like you want me to do what?
I only have eight hours in theday like how am I?
(17:59):
gonna do that.
It's not glamorous.
People always think, oh, it'slike Grey's Anatomy.
No, it's not.
You don't even have energy tothink about romance or anything.
Yeah, you're just crawling outof the event.
But if you are so depletedphysically, emotionally and
(18:19):
mentally and then you're like Ican have something that will
help me, like a supplement, likein this case, it will be.
When I say suggested forpatients, we have to say
suggested, because if we say no,you have to, then don't do.
It also is that, unfortunately,you cannot force people to take
care of themselves, right?
(18:41):
Um, there's a special case,that's forensics, but there's a
story for a different chapter.
But yeah, in our cases it'slike the frustration that we
want to help.
We're not just shoving pillsbecause a lot of people say you
work with pharma.
I was like no, we don't.
Like we really want you to getbetter, but in our communities
(19:02):
we don't believe in medication.
But in our communities we don'tbelieve in medication.
Medication is part of the devilor part of, like the white
person, or they are trying todrug us, et cetera, et cetera.
There is some cultural andsystematic oppression.
That, yes, it is true.
That is history.
We cannot deny that.
(19:22):
We always have been the guineapigs of everything, like in my
country, in Guatemala.
Thanks to us, you guys have thevaccines and medication for
syphilis, how my country stillhasn't, due to that, you know,
because they experiment withthat, um, in anybody out there.
Uh, read the Tuskegee.
I probably it wrong, but I wantto put it in the notes the
(19:44):
Tuskegee experiments.
Speaker 2 (19:46):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:47):
Right.
Speaker 2 (19:48):
That's actually cool.
Where I went to med school wasactually maybe a mile away from
Tuskegee, you know.
So Tuskegee is a college, it isHBCU and it's in Alabama.
Yeah, I went there and I saw it.
The Tuskegee Syphil, I saw thatthe Tuskegee syphilis trial or
the Tuskegee syphilis study yeah, yeah yeah, very true what
(20:10):
you're saying, very true.
Speaker 1 (20:11):
So how do you manage one when you have patients that
come like I'm not gonna takethat one and you're like you
know, you're going frompre-diabetic to now fully
diabetic, kind of thing, rightthe same.
Like you're going from highstress, anxiety to now you have
full blown depression, panicattacks, and we're not going to
(20:35):
deny PTSD.
A lot of medical students, theyhave PTSD and we don't treat
them.
They have ptsd and and we don'ttreat them.
Uh, they have a lot of grief,uh, that you know, having that
kind of stress, not only in theschool but in the daily,
depending how you do, yeah, um,I don't think people know also
(20:58):
how difficult it is for doctorsto be fighting every single day
with insurance.
Speaker 2 (21:02):
Yeah, yeah, that's tough.
Yeah, yeah, you know, insurance, social, you know.
But yeah, it's very tough, youknow, and that's good that we
went back to that because it'simportant, you know, for me.
You know, at first we all havebiases, right?
I?
forgot what the term is, theinside bias.
(21:23):
But you don't know you have it,but you do have it right.
So whenever a patient comes in,you know we say, hey, you gotta
take this.
And they say, no, I don't wantto take that, right.
We're so, yeah, yeah, or youknow.
Or you say, hey, take thismedication, you send it to that
pharmacy.
Then they come back to see you,or sicker, you're like, hey,
(21:46):
did you do it?
It's like no, I didn't want togo pick it up, or whatever.
And you know, of course, we werelike, oh my gosh, you know I'm
going to help you.
You know, throughout my wholejourney, actually, it gave me
(22:07):
the ability to understand andalways to know why, right, why.
A few weeks ago, well, a fewmonths ago, I had a young guy
came in because he had a boneinfection Right it's on his feet
and, and you know, came inbecause he had a bone infection
right it's on his feet.
(22:27):
And you know, the thing is,that was interesting about that
is that you know he didn't haveone leg right, so he only had
one foot right.
So we do, you know, a study, atrial, like MRIs imaging and we
see that the bone is infected,Right.
(22:49):
So the option is, you know,amputation, Right, Very sick,
very sick, very sick, very, verysick patient.
So you know the doctors goesand say, hey, you know you need
amputation or you know infectionis going to go through, you
know, in you and you might die,Right, and he was like no, I
(23:11):
don't want to do that, Right.
Speaker 1 (23:13):
And and I was like OK , fine.
So for me I'm like OK, well, ifyou don't want to do it that's
your choice, right.
Speaker 2 (23:21):
But I went back and I want to understand why.
Why is that, right?
Um, so sat down, I spoke to him, called his mom because he
wanted his mom to be involved.
Um, you know, we talked and theunderstanding was he was scared
to be on a you because we'regoing to take out the whole leg,
(23:45):
right.
But that was not the case.
You know, he was not going totake out the whole leg, he was
only going to be, you know,taking out a toe, right.
So you know, and sitting downand trying to understand that,
hey, it's just a toe, it's notthe whole leg.
Oh, so I can wear my shoes.
(24:05):
Yeah, you can wear your shoes,okay, well, fine, then I don't
want to do that, right, such asmall thing I did Small small
thing, but then it made a hugeimpact to them and the mom I
said, oh my gosh, no doctor'shelp.
Well, you know, know, peopleare different.
(24:27):
Exaggerate, don't get me wrong.
Speaker 1 (24:28):
They say hey, no, doctors ever sat down and
listened to me.
Speaker 2 (24:31):
You know the way you did is is, uh, you know, you sat
down and listened to everythingI had to say and you know and
helping me understand it right,I didn't even sit there too long
, but that's how I put myself inthis people's shoes.
I remember my mom.
Right, my mom would say, hey,go take this antibiotic.
(24:54):
She'd be like, no, I'm nottaking antibiotics, I don't know
what that medication is.
It's going to make me get canceror lose hair, whatever right.
So let me go back to my youknow, or you know my lemon,
honey and and tea, yeah, andginger yeah, right, which I
still do, that, by the way, andit actually works you know right
(25:17):
.
Speaker 1 (25:18):
But then that's what I always tell my patients too,
or clients.
I say look, there's preventable, there is self-suiting and
there is like when we need thebig guns which is like the
medications, right, uh.
And what I love about your storyis the complaint that we all
have, uh, in mental health, wehave the same thing, right, that
we are overflow with patients,that we cannot spend the 15
(25:40):
minutes extra.
Right, and that's what a lot ofus.
We move to private practicesbecause, like, the grinding is
not healthy for the cliniciannor the patient, because the
same I have a chronic illnesslike POTS, where all my POTS is
there, shout out to them.
(26:01):
But it's the same trying toexplain to your doctor that
we're like wait, wait, wait,wait, wait, like don't go, like
they literally them.
But it's the same trying toexplain to your doctor that
we're like wait, wait, wait,wait, like don't go, like they
literally told me it's like, oh,we only have 15 minutes to see
you and it's like, okay, and asa clinician I get it, but as a
patient I don't right.
And then I have, like you,other doctors, friends, and they
(26:23):
always say you know thefrustration that we have because
we know, like you say, if Iwould have spent another five
minutes, I could dig a littlemore and explain a little more
and make a life change, right,but I don't have those five
minutes because somebody else ishere is coding, or X, y and Z.
So the stress that you guyshave, let's now move to.
(26:46):
We know the system needs a lotof tuning.
Right, the system needs a lot,a lot of tuning, and we're not
throwing rocks at the system.
What we're trying to bring isawareness for both sides.
Right, we understand that inthe past, the medical has not
been the friend of minorities,but also we understand that
(27:07):
minorities need to be more inthe field.
That way you can have doctorsthat look like you, that talk
like you and they understandyour environment.
But one thing to the publicthat I want them to understand
is we're losing a lot of peoplethat wants to be in medical.
Also, they have and I will putall the stats in the links below
(27:30):
, but they have for medicalstudents having suicidal
thoughts.
So that means out of your 10students, you have at least 0.4%
.
That's a lot.
You have at least 0.4%.
That's a lot.
That is like almost three ofthem having just those thoughts.
For the same rate, what kind ofresources do you experience
(27:52):
going through your medicalschool and now to get resources
for mental health?
Because I know, for example,for psychologists and therapists
, we have to go through therapyas part of licensure, as part of
continuing education, etc.
So we're kind of mandated to go, even if you don't want to.
And it's true, doctors, we arethe worst Therapists.
(28:16):
We're the worst clients too,because you're like no, I can't
handle it myself.
But for doctors and for medicalstudents, what kind of
resources and setbacks you guyshave in order to search mental
health.
Speaker 2 (28:30):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's a good question.
So in medical school we didhave a counselor that we go and
talk to.
They're very nice.
I mean, they were trying tohelp with education Also.
They had that aspect of it.
I'm pretty sure there was.
You know, it's one of thosethings that you know a lot of
(28:55):
people don't pursue it.
I didn't in medical schoolbecause I was not mentally aware
of myself at that time.
So I'm pretty sure, probablythey have, you know.
You know therapists,psychologists, whoever right,
they can listen to you.
I started noticing it more inresidency because that's when I
started to become more aware andthey do have.
(29:18):
They do offer like, hey, youcan call, you know you can call
someone, you know if you'refeeling X, y, z, so they have
those.
But I think that still has morework to go because we still
have this stigma that you know,if you were requesting help
because of how you feel you seemweak, especially in our careers
(29:42):
, you know you cannot.
Unfortunately you cannot beweak, right, right, because
people will look at youdifferent, like, okay, well, I
think you need time off, then,you know, until you become
stronger, then you can come back, right, right, so I think that
we need more awareness.
You know that it's okay topursue, you know, mental therapy
(30:02):
.
I call it right.
So, yeah, because you know ummental therapy.
I got caught right, so um yeahbecause, you know, I always say
this, but this is my opinion.
Okay, yes, of course this is myopinion.
I say, uh, you know, there'sonly there's two types of people
.
Uh, this is my opinion, this iswhat I say.
There's two type of people thatdon't need mental therapy.
Right, those are liars or deadpeople.
(30:25):
That's all I say.
Because, uh, everybody needs it.
Speaker 1 (30:30):
I think yeah yes, in every shape or form.
I say uh, you know, if, becauseyour career, or x, y and z, you
cannot go see a therapist or aprofessional, there is always
life coaches that will help youto get out of your, your drought
.
There is mentors, there issupport groups.
(30:51):
There is an infinity thing, butof course we don't search for
it until we need it.
But unfortunately, by the timethat we need it, we don't have
the energy to search for itexactly.
Exactly so.
If you are listening, alwaysask the strongest people in your
life how are you doing?
But really ask them, becausethe strongest people, as Kevin
(31:13):
said, we are not allowed to showany weakness.
Right, and it's not a weakness,but that's how the culture has
perpetrated searching for help,because you never say, oh, I cut
my finger, let me go putstitches on it.
Oh, you're so weak, no, right,it's the same.
I got an emotional injurybecause I lost my pet, I lost my
(31:36):
father, I lost somebody in mylife, or I have lost myself in
this process, which is thehardest one, right, when you
lost yourself, what kind ofresources do you use now, or
even back then, to keep yourselfmentally fit?
Because, as everything, youhave to be mentally fit.
(31:57):
What do I mean with that?
I, as a therapist, I domeditation every day, I go for
mindful walks.
I make sure that if I'moverbooked or something, I do
meditation every day, I go formindful walks.
I make sure that if I'moverbooked or something, I take
days off, like I'm very strictabout my fitness mentally, right
, because they need me fit inorder to perform.
So what do you do?
(32:17):
Because, obviously, we takecare of our body, a lot of us.
We take care of our body byexercising X, y and Z eating
well.
So what do you do for yourmental fitness?
Speaker 2 (32:28):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah, that's actually what Iwas saying.
I was about to say that.
You know, just like we go tothe gym to take care of body so
we can be strong, I think wealso need that for our brain as
well.
Right?
So what I do is now, you knowthere's a lot of resources on
YouTube.
I go listen to them.
I like to listen to differentpeople's motivations and
(32:52):
journeys.
Reading books, you know, allthat kind of you know makes me
understand a different side ofit.
I like, you know, hanging out.
You know, hanging out at myplace.
I have a little dog, I think,just you know, having a pet.
I used to be anti-pet, by theway, and now, if you see, just
(33:13):
like what you were saying, likeyou see my, my Instagram is just
pet, pet, pet you become my petparent.
I know which is you know it'samazing, right, I moved down
here.
I'm in pet parent.
I know which is you know it'samazing, right, I moved down
here.
I'm in Florida, vero Beach.
It's close to the beach, so Ilike to go to the beach.
(33:34):
That was one part of myawareness that I learned because
I used to be the person thatsaid man, I cannot go to the
beach alone.
I'm going to be seen as sad orlonely, or I can't go and have
dinner alone.
I can't go to watch a moviealone.
Speaker 1 (33:50):
That's what I was Right, right, right.
Speaker 2 (33:52):
You know I had a therapist.
I used to talk to a therapistand everything, and you know
that was the one thing we workedon.
So now I mean I just go there,you know, I just enjoy it.
You know I enjoy it.
Um, and calling family, Ibelieve that's very important,
you know, because, uh, they,they know that you're on the
side before you became this bigperson, right, they know you as
(34:17):
who you started, as right.
So call them.
We talked to that.
Talk to my mom, you know, um,she's still in san diego.
Um, and I talk to my friends.
So, yeah, all that, I do a lotof planning.
I'm one of those.
I'm gonna have a green tongue.
I do a lot of uh.
I think, uh, gardening andstuff like that it gives me a
(34:38):
little bit of uh, you know peace, so I like do that, like
watching something grow andstuff like that.
Speaker 1 (34:44):
So, yeah, so what they say have unconditional love
, which is your pet.
Have somebody to take care innature, which is your pet plants
, and then have encounters withnature alone, which is your
walks in the beach.
And it must be a San Diegothing too, because I have to go
to the beach.
And it must be a San Diegothing too, because I have to go
(35:05):
to the beach at least threetimes a week, like when I'm
feeling stressed, I'm like I'mgoing, I'm just gonna get lost
for an hour in the in the beach,or just sit on it and uh, for
people out there, just beingclose to water, it kind, it
generates a little moreendorphins and serotonin than
you.
Having at least 15 minutes inthe sun also levels your
(35:30):
serotonin levels in brightcolors, believe it or not.
That's why you see brightcolors can help increase your
dopamine, which increase yourenergy, which increase your mood
.
So if you think about I callmental health like a jenga or
blocks, you put blocks thatbuilt or you take, blow blocks
(35:53):
out that they move right, forexample.
I don't believe in the.
I know we need it, but it's notfeasible.
When we were students.
We eat in the run.
We will eat like walking andstudying, and that is not
healthy.
Like food has meant to nourishyour mind and your body.
And I love what you say abouttalking to family for all our
(36:17):
audience.
That for some reason you havestrained family members or you
don't talk to your birth family,that's okay.
Okay too, we create our familywherever we go.
Like, if you say our friends,we always have the one that,
like our birth family, that willstay with us, of course, but
that's not the case of everybody, unfortunately.
But we want to just offereverybody out there that family
(36:41):
is the one that we make.
Like, for example, we have lostkind of like cousins and
parents and adoptive friendsthat they become more brothers
and sisters because proximityright.
But I love even though hebrushed it a little bit like Dr
Kevin went to therapy.
Do you hear that future doctors?
(37:02):
He went to therapy and becauseof I'm not saying just because
of that, but because of thathe's kind of like he get like a
mental kind of coach to, oh,let's go and be our best type A
ever.
That is for all theCrossFitters out there.
When you see one, you're like,how do you guys do that?
Like how, it's because theyhave somebody that has them to
(37:23):
train, right?
So I'm glad that you got thatin your education and in your
life.
And the pet parent, I mean, whodoesn't love a pet?
And it can be anything.
Right, it doesn't have to be adog, it doesn't have to be a cat
.
They have horses, they ponies,they have chickens and, why not?
(37:45):
A college student is listeningto you and it feels overwhelming
like I want to go to medicalschool and, oh, I want to become
a doctor.
You know tv, right?
Uh, everybody thinks that goingto school for medical school
it's like race anatomy orchicago med or any of those.
Right, depending yourgeneration, that's the one that
(38:07):
you see.
Um, I'm a firm believer to, yes, please go to tech, to the
online platforms, but always bemindful and careful to who you
listen to.
Always try I always say try tolisten a few different ones,
especially if they contradicteach other, because then in
between a and b, you have theanswer right.
(38:27):
Uh, because it's very importantto know different uh points of
views.
Like you know, like I say, Ilearned in the past.
I was always like no, everybodyneeds therapy, right, and I
understand that because, uh, inthe culture right now, I
understand, no, some people needfirst the baby step.
That is maybe a coach or uhgoing to their church or going
(38:51):
the baby step right.
So I pride myself to go andtrain people in those areas,
because not everybody's trainedfor, for mental awareness and
mental fitness, right, um, butwe all can collaborate together
to do it.
So what is your point, as youwill say to that little baby
(39:12):
medical student or how do youthink like one-on-one survival
kit for school and residency?
Mostly, if you are listening.
Speaker 2 (39:22):
Yeah, oh, the biggest thing I learned is that don't
be scared of failure.
You know and do not.
And if you do, do not usefailure as a currency to
determine your future, becauseit's not right.
That's one of the things I hadto learn, you know probably you
(39:46):
don't know this when I was,actually when I was in UCSD.
I kind of you did mention it inthe beginning.
You have really, really goodpoints.
I love it.
I love it.
Actually, that's why I listento your podcast all the time.
This is good, you know.
So you know, when I was in UCSDd, I kind of forgot who.
(40:08):
I was, right, and I thought Iwas, you know, the smartest kid,
right?
I mean, I came from kenya.
I went to get my ged because Icouldn't.
I didn't go to high school, Iwent to grossman college.
I was a math tutor.
I did all this.
Now I'm in UCSD, I'm doinghuman biology.
You know all this stuff, right?
I forgot.
So I went and I took the MCAT.
(40:30):
So MCAT is the, you know, firstexam to get into medical school
, right?
So I took the MCAT and I failedit.
I failed it.
The thing is I had told myfriends before that I was going
to go to med school, no matterwhat.
Speaker 1 (40:46):
Right.
Speaker 2 (40:47):
Right.
So when I failed and I did noteven get an interview to get
into medical school, I went tohigh school Right.
And because that failuredetermined who I was at that
time, so I am not fit to be outthere.
(41:07):
Because I failed, right I wentto hiding and I was tough,
really, really tough moment.
So I had to dig myself out ofthat right.
So the first thing I tell thosepeople who want to do it you
know medical school, any, any,any occupation, any professional
, whatever you want to dofailure, do not be scared of it.
You know medical school, any,any, any occupation, any
professional, whatever you wantto do failure, do not be scared
(41:28):
of them.
You know those are the ones.
You know they actually push you, catapult you forward, because
now you fail, now you knowthat's possible, that you're
human.
Now let's keep on going Right.
That's one.
The second thing is you knowyou also mentioned just because
you have a mentor, those are notthe mentors that you're going
to have for the rest of yourlife.
(41:49):
Sometimes that's not the case.
Remember, mentors are like um,uh, stepping stone, I see yeah
right.
The only difference is they'relike giants.
You know, like isaac newtonsaid, know I can see further
because I stood on the shouldersof giants.
Those stepping stones are giants, yes, and you just jump.
(42:10):
You know each one of them.
I have a lot of mentors and wekeep, as we go, move forward
because I find someone new whocan lead me and guide me through
that process.
When I'm done with the process,find somebody new and go on.
So having mentors is veryimportant and, just like what
you just mentioned, you know weall look for a personal trainer,
(42:31):
but I will add a personalphysical trainer and that's fine
, because that's accepted right.
Right, but we also need apersonal mental trainer.
You know, and that's what thetherapies are.
You know.
I think that's's very, veryimportant because it's these
things that we know all ofourselves.
(42:51):
Like you know, you can go liftdumbbells and gain, but these
other exercises to build othermuscles, right, you know?
Hey, you know what, if I listento music, I feel soothing, I'm
fine.
Well, that's just the bicep,right are the muscles in your
brain.
You know, in your brain thatneeds training and that's why
(43:12):
you need a personal mentaltrainer.
Um, so, I have those, and youknow, and, like I said, I'm
becoming more aware and I thinkI believe nobody becomes fully
aware Like, oh, I've learnedeverything, now I am good.
No, it's evolving, right, right, and you keep on learning more
(43:34):
and more and more.
So, yeah, so that's what I do.
Speaker 1 (43:38):
Oh, I love that.
And just to you know, and toeverybody listening, I'm a firm
believer that failure just is anindicator of why you have to
try again.
Meaning the same right.
So for medical school is theMCAT, for law school is the LSAT
and for general, everythingelse is the.
Oh, I even forgot the name ofit.
(43:59):
What is it?
I repeat it three times.
I know, hold on G-CAT.
No, I forgot what is it.
I repeat it three timesprobably.
Speaker 2 (44:08):
I put it in the back.
I know hold on.
Speaker 1 (44:09):
Um, no, I forgot.
I, if you know, put it in thecomments because I totally my
brain went blank, probablybecause it was so traumatic.
I repeated three times and Iknow it was like but instead of
I didn't went in hiding, I wentin like what do I?
Why I'm failing this test thatyou know?
I know my IQ is pretty high.
So I was like what is wrongwith me?
(44:29):
And then we discovered therewas nothing wrong with me.
The test is a little biased, aswe know, all this kind of tests
are not created mostly for ourcommunity, so there is questions
that we question even more thanwe shouldn't.
And then it only took oneperson.
It always takes one person toborrow belief.
For you, what?
Speaker 2 (44:50):
do I mean?
Speaker 1 (44:52):
I was like I'm done, this is as far as I can go,
because you know, three times istoo many times.
And then one of the mentors waslike no, no, let's sit down.
There is other schools or otherprograms that you can apply,
that they necessarily need thistest.
And I was like they are notgoing to want me.
Or they were like, oh, theywant the test just to be taken,
but not really.
(45:12):
And I did that.
And then you know, when youtook the belief that you're a
failure, I have this crazybelief in, like you know, just
do it.
And the worst thing is, I know,right.
So I applied to all the IBschools, I applied to a lot of
schools and I put my story and Iput this in X, y and Z and I
(45:34):
was like I'm not going to get in, it's okay, I just want to try
it.
Speaker 2 (45:38):
Right.
Speaker 1 (45:39):
Then I got in in seven schools, wow, and I was
like, ah.
And then it was the choicewhere do I go right?
What I'm saying is what youconsider failure sometimes is
(46:07):
just the break of the next step,that you're goingdivergent, or
you have invisible disabilities,or you are a minority.
There's other ways to do things, because you know one fits done
all right.
Yes, you look cute in the sameoutfit, but there is other
outfits that you can try and ifyou take anything out of this
conversation, it will be one, ofcourse.
Follow your dreams that they docome true, but they don't come
(46:27):
easy yeah uh, there's gonna be alot of sacrifices that you're
going to do, but you don't haveto sacrifice your mental
wellness and your physicalwellness.
If you sacrifice that, there isno end, right?
Right, because we become people.
Places are giving little piecesof ourselves, and if you get
(46:48):
pieces of yourself, then youlose yourself, but you can
reinvent yourself over and over.
So even if you're lost outthere, just remember there is
help out there, there's supportgroups and there is going to be
all those resources.
In the notes also below thereis, if people didn't know, there
is also support groups globallyfor medical students that you
(47:10):
can go and talk about mentalhealth, mental fitness, and even
if you're a physician, there isplaces that you can go and talk
to a therapist.
So do you have any last notesfor our audience?
Speaker 2 (47:25):
Yeah, I mean, obviously, you know I'm thankful
you invited me and talk aboutthis and you know it's very,
it's always so nice sharing, youknow, our past, because I wish
I listened to myself when I wasyounger, to this person Right,
(47:47):
so I could know, wow, you know Igot to keep on pushing.
Or other people like, oh man,there's somebody who's going
through what I'm going throughand they did it Right.
So that's important.
And obviously, like I said, youknow, just because you go into
therapy does not mean that's theend.
Right, we continue building ourbrain, our mental you know,
(48:12):
mental wellness.
We continue building.
So continue doing what you doRight, whatever it is, you do,
continue doing that.
And so happy that you were soyou know, look at you.
And so happy that you were, soyou know, look at you, you know,
so happy that you know we getto talk about this on your
wonderful podcast.
OK, I love it, love it, love it.
Speaker 1 (48:32):
Thank you.
And if people want to find youor follow your doggy, if you
don't know that your doggy hasan Instagram right.
Speaker 2 (48:39):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (48:41):
Spartacus the doodle.
So if you want to know aboutthe little fur baby, he's a
cutie.
Please go follow him at can Ishow?
Him.
Of course you can show him.
Speaker 2 (48:54):
Yes, they want to meet you.
Speaker 1 (48:58):
That's Spartacus the doodle so you can go follow him
in Instagram.
And for you.
Where are you?
What are you doing?
Speaker 2 (49:09):
yeah, so I mean, uh, I mean, uh, I'm in the east side
of florida, I'm a hospitaldoctor, internal medicine, um,
and uh, that's what I do, that'swhat that's, that's where my
life is right now.
Speaker 1 (49:26):
And, let's say, somebody felt really impactful
connection with you when theylisten to you let's say a
student or something where theycan find you.
Oh, if not, you can also put itin the comments and I will be
more than happy to connect youwith Dr Kevin if you are feeling
called to like asking myquestion because, like you know,
like because we're now publicfigures, we're also kind of
(49:50):
mentors of a lot of other onesthat they see us up there.
It's like, oh, how do you do it?
So please feel free to eitherput it in the comments and I can
connect it with Dr K or Dr K,do you have any?
Speaker 2 (50:03):
uh, yeah, I mean, uh, yeah, I think that would be the
best way to reach out, but Imean my emails is uh the way to
do it.
Um, I think I did share.
I'll give you my other emailthat you know they can always
reach out to me and I and I willput it in the comments too, so
stay tuned for that.
Speaker 1 (50:20):
This episode will air in our net style.
Thank you so much, dr Kevin.
It was my pleasure, as always,talking to you, seeing how great
you are and remember, eventhough you think people is not
watching your greatness, thereis people watching your
greatness, even if you thinkit's not have a wonderful day.
Thank you so much, dr Olden.
This is like I just said youknow.
Speaker 2 (50:41):
Thank you so much, dr Holden.
This is like I just said.
You know, this is amazingbecause this is those tools to
help a lot of people.
A lot of people need it, youknow.
So you know, this is awesomethat you have this.
I love it.
I always listen to it, andbecause there's always somebody
with something or you just sharesomething and I'm like, wow, I
(51:02):
didn't know that.
You see, I add that to my tools, right, so that's really
awesome.
You're doing great as well.
I see you.
You know, I see you and I'malways, always, always, always
love your messages.
You know, because you know younever know what somebody's going
through and just saying, hey,how's it going, how are you
doing?
Like what you just said?
(51:23):
It means everything.
So I really appreciate youdoing that.
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (51:28):
Thank you Well for everybody.
I see you, I love you and Ihear you.
Until next time.
As we conclude today's episode,take a moment to reflect, be
proud of the journey, for everystep that brings you closer to
who you truly are.
(51:49):
Embrace the kindness towardsyourself as you did to each one
of our guests, honor the braveryin your actions and celebrate
the importance of mentalwellness with us.
And remember it's an exercisethat we practice daily.
Continue to grow and flourish,knowing that we are in this
(52:12):
training for our mental wellnesstogether.
We are so proud to have you aspart of our community, so join
us on Instagram at OasisCommunity Podcast for more
inspiring conversations,valuable resources and supported
content, including journals,worksheets and content in
(52:34):
Spanish.
Exciting things are in thehorizon.
Our Oasis Community break roomsare coming soon to grab tools
and take a break for your mentalhealth are coming soon to grab
tools and take a break for yourmental health.
Also, we are featuring oursix-month training ethical
mental health coaching programdesigned for new and experienced
coaches, as well as holisticand healing professionals.
(52:55):
Enroll to create a safe andtransformative experience to
your clients.
Links in the bio.
Until next time, take care,stay connected and welcome to
our Oasis community.
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