The Importance of Mental Health Awareness for Men

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
Hello beautiful souls and welcome to Oroasis
Community Podcast.
I am Dr Roldan, your host.
I am a doctor in clinicalpsychology, a BIPOC therapist
professor and a mindful somaticcoach.
While I am a therapist,remember I'm not your therapist.
This podcast is not asubstitute for professional

(00:24):
mental health care, but we haveresources in our website and
Instagram to support you in thatsearch.
Join us for a cozy, feltconversation about mental health
, personal growth andmindfulness.
We explore tools to care foryour mind, your body and your
soul.
Check the footnotes fordisclaimer, trigger warnings and

(00:46):
additional resources for eachone of the episodes.
So grab your favorite cup oftea, coffee or hot chocolate,
wrap yourself in a warm blanketand find a coffee spot here with
us to be kind to be brave, loudand strong in your search of

(01:07):
mental health wellness.
Welcome to your Oasis.
I want to introduce you notonly a friend, and we collide
stars when we were in college,san Diego State.
Go Aztecs, if there's any Aztecout there and I want to
introduce you a very good friendof mine.
I call him Boogie.
How are you today?

Speaker 2 (01:27):
I'm doing well, sarah , great to be on the show and my
name is Boogie, as you said.
I'm excited to be here andshare a little bit with your
listeners.

Speaker 1 (01:36):
Thank you.
So why don't you talk to us alittle bit about yourself?
Today we are going to talkabout global mental health and
the power of community and ifyou guys haven't followed, he is
a connector.
It's that kind of personalityand person that can connect you
with a perfect match.
It's almost like a matchmakerfor business and the well-being

(02:01):
in business to help others.
So can you talk us a little bitabout the trajectory of your
career, but mostly how being amale and living in a
cross-border city like San Diegohas shaped who you are and who
you help?

Speaker 2 (02:17):
Okay, yeah, great question.
That's a very big question, butI'll try to tackle it as
concisely as possible.
As I said, my name is Bogie,but my formal name Bogdan
Matyshinsky.
If you ever want to look me up,I'm the founder of iServe
International and what I do is Ifocus on international
opportunities, everythingrelated to project development,
advising on scholarships andfellowships, how to help people

(02:40):
design award winning essays, howto do self-discovery and
exploration, how to look atdifferent career pathways and,
as you kindly mentioned, byaccident I kind of became this
connector.
So how did that start?
Well, going back, it actuallywas from one of my worst moments
, which that might soundsurprising, but after I

(03:01):
graduated high school in SanDiego, I went off to college to
study engineering and at thattime I thought okay, life is
good, I've got everything undercontrol, I have my perfect
little plan, my perfect pathwayto success, my career.
I'm high on life, so to speak.
And after about a year and ahalf of studying, trying the

(03:23):
engineering, doing the practicalvocational training for
engineering on ships, I realizedone I hated it.
Two, I didn't want to let myfamily down because I was the
first in my family, firstgeneration.
I'm a Polish-Mexican Americanand it was such a big deal for
my family to be the first one togo to college, and I'm also an

(03:45):
only child.
So I really felt, sadly, thisshame that, uh-oh, things are
not going well.
How do I break it to my parentsthat I don't like this?
And then, third, I realized,okay, I put all my eggs in one
basket and I thought this wasthe way, and in fact I didn't

(04:05):
have a backup plan.
I kind of was overconfident,thinking that this is it, this
is how we're going to solve allmy problems, to what happens
next in my life, and it's goingto go perfectly smooth.
And I truly believe still thatit's good to be confident, but
without having the backup plan.

(04:25):
Then my world started kind ofcaving in.
What does that mean?
Well, then one of my friendsnoticed hey, you know what you
don't seem yourself, You're notthat happy-go-lucky, cheerful,
smiling guy.
Okay, Then I started noticingsymptoms.
Everything from I would justhave like these little panic

(04:46):
attacks I guess you could say,Didn't feel in the mood to go to
class, had difficultyconcentrating While I'm still
trying to ponder life.
What the heck do I do next, nowthat I'm not trying to do this
engineering thing?
And from there it got worse.

(05:18):
I stopped going to class.
I didn't want to see anyone, Ijust really wanted to disappear
and be alone.
And in that loneliness that waseven worse because I had a
friend who passed away.
And it was just one thing afteranother, after another.
And then I started wonderingwhy am I having difficulty
concentrating?
So I went to the doctor becauseI started doing the Google WebMD
what's wrong with me?
And no exaggeration, everythingI was looking up I'm like, oh

(05:42):
my gosh, do I have a brain tumoror something?
And so I went to the doctor,had all these tests done and the
doctor bluntly tells me well,good news, bad news.
Good news is you don't havecancer.
Everything checks outhealth-wise Okay.
But have you ever thought youmight be depressed?

(06:02):
And I was literally just inshock, like depressed, what does
he mean?
It was just so shocking.
That word literally wasn't inmy vocabulary, in the sense that
as a kid never talked about it,as a young adult never talked
about it, as a family nevertalked about it, being also from

(06:25):
a multicultural family myPolish side, my Mexican side it
just wasn't a conversation.
So now that this doctor'stelling me I think you're
depressed it was just this evenmore like I would have been
almost more understanding if hetold me yeah, you have brain
cancer, you know, it was almostlike I expected that.
But the depression, so I thinkfrom there that hitting rock

(06:50):
bottom, so to speak, and thensubsequently actually dropping
out of school mid-semester, thatwas like my world collapsing.
So not only did I feel isolated, not only were things going bad
, not only did now they diagnoseme with something, but then I
thought, okay, so now I reallydon't have a plan, Now I have a

(07:12):
big problem.
How do I climb out of thisproblem?
And one of the saving gracesthat I think it's important to
touch on is that sense ofcommunity, whether that's
community of a friend, communityof a school, community of
parents, community of family.
So one of my biggest supporterswas a friend who recognized that

(07:33):
I wasn't my typical self, andthat friend suggested hey, why
don't you go talk to the schoolcounselor?
At that time I hadn't talked toa counselor before and I was
like, what are they going to do?
And it was kind of thisself-defeating, stubborn, maybe
ego attitude like what are theygoing to do for me that I

(07:55):
haven't done for myself already?
Right, If I want to get better.
I've already gone to the doctor, the medical doctor, and that
friend just urged me and saidyou know what he's helped me.
I think he can help you.
And I think it was thatcredibility of my friend, that
peer support, reaching out to meand saying look, you basically

(08:17):
have a problem, You're not yournormal self.
Why don't you go talk to him?
Why don't you go talk to him?
And it was one of the worst andbest days that I went to him,
because the second I went intohis office when he sat down, sat
me down and just asked me tostart sharing what's going on.
Just this huge rush of emotionsnegativity, positivity came out

(08:42):
.
I was literally speechless, nojoke.
For about three to five minutesI didn't say a word and I just
started crying and obviously thetissue box came out and I was
trying to work through it andfinally, once I started getting
things off my chest and sharingwith him more, he actually

(09:03):
listened, which was good, but hetook it in a direction that was
supportive, empathetic, butalso he gave me practical
suggestions.
Now, being at a young age ofonly 19, at that time I wasn't
that wise.
I was wise, but not that wise,where hearing the wisdom from
someone who was older, aprofessional therapist, did help

(09:25):
me now seek that assistance andhe went out of his way to now
contact my support network,which included my parents, which
included the friend, and thenwe made a game plan from there.
So now, moving forward fromthat traumatic experience and I
do want to give a quickdisclaimer I'm not a mental

(09:46):
health therapist, I'm not alicensed counselor, but I share
this info with you more torecognize that we need to share
these interpersonal stories.
I give the disclaimer just forthe sake of people know that I'm
not that licensed professional,but at the same time I hate the
fact that in society we do haveto give that disclaimer,

(10:09):
because part of what I want totalk about today is each of us,
whether you're a licensedclinician or not, have the power
, the capability to help oneanother, to identify that
someone's having a problem andto do something, even if it's
not even talking to the personor suggesting something,
listening or identifyingsomething, and I'll talk about

(10:30):
that more down the road in ourconversation.
But anyways, I shared thattraumatic story because it is
kind of the foundation thatcreated my rocket ship that now
just blast off, so to speak,because that allowed me to
basically burn down the house,to build the mansion for lack of

(10:50):
better words because I neededto not only discover myself,
reinvent myself, but also heal.
There was a lot of stuff insideof me that I didn't even know
and I won't go into thatspecifically because that's more
personal.
But I think every person atsome point especially young
adults who are transitioningfrom high school to university

(11:10):
level there's a lot going on,especially as a first-generation
student.
I'll admit there was a lot ofpressure and I'm not going to
blame anyone except myself.
But the number one thing wasagain that support network,
because I really appreciatedwhen my parents said you know
what?
Whatever has happened hashappened, but we support you

(11:31):
whatever you choose to do next.
And a lot of people don't havethat safety net.
A lot of people don't have thatcare in their families.
So for any parents who arelistening out there, that's
probably one of the mostimportant safe things you can
say to your students or childrenbefore they go off to college,
while they're at college, thatthey have that safety net of
support.

(11:52):
Because we change our minds,life happens, and I think I was
too set on having that perfectpath because I did believe in it
and it is possible for some,but I think the realities of
life it just kind of overwhelmedme.
So that's just kind of a littlebit about the foundation of how
I got into a lot of this, butalso, as I mentioned, because I

(12:16):
didn't have the options, Ididn't necessarily have the best
connections.
Part of my trajectory upwardwas now connecting with people,
self-healing, recovery, but alsomaking the foundation for my
future.
So I started literally going tothe library almost every other
day at that time.
That was back in 2007.

(12:38):
So we have the smartphones wehave now and we're still on
dial-up.
So I would just go to thelibrary and I would check out
books on professionaldevelopment, psychology, mental
health, and I just startedreading stories of people who
persevered over difficultcircumstances, whether they were
born into it, whether lifethrew them a curveball, and I

(13:01):
just started really realizing.
It was basically the earlierversion of what you're doing in
this show, which I reallyappreciate, but I was doing it
myself, going to the library andpulling out those stories of
other people.
And that's my goal today toshare anecdotes of what worked
for me.
It doesn't necessarily meanthat everything that worked for

(13:21):
me, is going to work foreveryone else, but it is
important, I think, to listen topeople's experiences, because
there are a lot of commondenominators in our shared
experiences.

Speaker 1 (13:32):
May I ask a few questions Looking in
retrospective, as a professionalright, like as the therapist.
I'm like in the shoes of thetherapist now.
I'm like in the shoes of thetherapist now and I treat a lot
of active duty in military firstresponders and general public
and one thing that I see is whenmales come to my office and

(13:55):
you're talking about babiesright, 18, 19, 17 ish coming
here they come with that shamethat you were saying like, wait
what?
The same sentence that you saidis the sentence that I hear in
and out daily, that is, I willprefer have cancer, a wound,
heart attack or something thatyou're telling me I'm depressed

(14:15):
or I have PTSD or I have anxiety, because that represents
weakness In the male gaze,asking for help or just saying
to somebody hey, you know I'mstruggling, something that is
not physical.
A lot of them show it in angeror in insulation and I am so
grateful that you have a malefriend and a male therapist to

(14:39):
be your first experience,because you got to see the other
person in there, right, thetherapists, coaches or peer
support.
What they offer most thananything is having that template
of like the nonjudgmental partof you that wants to be heard
that wants to be say I see you,I see your pain, I will hold it

(15:02):
for you.
Many times I have been insessions where I sit down and
they don't want to talk and theydon't have to, and either we
talk about comic books thatrelate to what happened to them
or we just sit in silence and Ilet them cry, I let them get in
out, and one of them severaltimes I have felt like that's

(15:23):
the first time that I have beenallowed to cry in front of
somebody and it's a training,right?
Like how did your body feel?
Can we do some breathingexercise?
Like you say, give them tips tonot feel ashamed of the.
I need to cry, I need torelease or I don't understand
what is happening to me, to.
I see you and I hear you andI'm here to hold space for you,

(15:45):
right?
So can you talk about that?
The whole male gaze in that youare very passionate about and
very vocal about, like I see oneand I help one, right?
So talk to me a little bitabout that.
Your experience now, looking atretrospective Males, tend to
grow up with this expectation oftoughness, of like you don't

(16:07):
cry, you don't ask for help.
Men don't connect with men inthat matter.

Speaker 2 (16:12):
We have seen a shift in our society about that, but
when you were 19, that didn'texist having been exposed to so
many different cultures, spheresnow I've been blessed to travel
to over 50 countries and alsowork on different projects
related to this I would see itmore as environmental
conditioning Kind of like.

(16:33):
I don't know if you're familiarwith the words priming or
conditioning, but there havebeen many research studies and
many psychology experts who haveshown, just like with a pet, if
we ring the bell before we feedthe pet, what is the animal,
the pet, going to associate?
The bell?
The ringing means food's comingright.

(16:54):
Or, sadly, if we have negativeconditioning, we prime the mind,
our psyche, our psychology toexpect a bad thing.
So I think the same thing, likeyou've mentioned, whether it's
TV, pop culture, whether it'sour families, whether it's
through sports, whether it'sthrough our environmental

(17:15):
factors such as family, whetherit's our schools, whether it's
our community, I think everyonehas a role, whether that's
positive or negative influence.
I would see it more as becurious.
Be curious in the sense, nodifferent.
We need to take care of ourhealth, sadly.

(17:37):
What are we conditioned?
At least, I can only speak forthe US.
That's where I was born andraised and brought up.
In the US it's common you go toa physical, probably every year
.
Every other year the doctorchecks you out and they make you
touch your toes, might checkyour pulse, they do things like
that.
But only until recently, maybethe last five years, have I

(17:59):
heard of or witnessed any typeof mental health questions, and
even then, in my opinion, it'sdone in almost such an awkward
way that the patient isgenuinely and not surprisingly
going to feel like this is kindof getting a little weird now

(18:23):
how our society conditionspeople and I'm speaking more for
the fact that we're in SouthernCalifornia, at least the
variable that our immediateviewers might be more familiar
with.
I think that's a start.
So obviously that's a big broadstroke, I'm saying, but getting
the message out right.
Should we force people to thinka certain way?
I don't believe that, but Ithink if we educate that, look,

(18:45):
these are healthy ways to be, soto speak.
If you're exhibiting theseparticular traits or factors
such as anger, loss of emotionalcontrol, then yeah, across the
board I'll say that's not good.
That's not good why we're notattacking the person.
We're not saying you, john, oryou, alex, are bad.

(19:10):
We're saying hey, alex, whenyou screamed at this person
today, that was not okay,because I'm taking the action
and I'm describing specificallywhy that action was not okay and
how that negatively not onlyaffected them, but affected the
people and their environment,and how it can affect their

(19:30):
personal and professional life.
I think by peeling away theonion like that, you're getting
to the first layer, but then youhave to go deeper.
Now it also depends what levelare we encountering that person
in.
So just for our viewers to knowand clarify a little bit now, I
do sound like I'm trying to be apsychologist.

(19:51):
Again, I'm not, but I haveworked on a lot of peer support
teams.
I've been treatingpsychiatrists and clinicians.
I've also worked interned forthe American Red Cross Service
to Armed Forces branch where Iworked with military members and
their families.
So I'm bringing in some of thatexperience, but also keeping
identities confidential.
But, for example, I've hadpeople who have literally

(20:15):
encountered me, just yelling atme, screaming at me, cussing at
me.
I've had people literally throwthings at me and I knew it
wasn't personal, it was just themoment of time I was coming in
to their space, right.
And when people are vulnerable,when people are emotional, when
people are not in the best stateof mind, it's not to give them

(20:40):
a free pass to do whatever theywant.
They still need to be heldaccountable and boundaries need
to be there.
But at the same time, we haveto treat it as this person may
have actually lost a little bitof control because the mind is
so powerful.
It can make us do and think andsay such strange, random things

(21:05):
that they've even proven instudies.
People who go through atraumatic incident, triggering
situation, or might be oncertain medications or under the
influence of substances, theybasically black out or don't
recall after.
And I've even experienced itmyself where you get like a

(21:34):
tunnel vision and you go throughthis traumatic incident and
you're almost like wait, whathappened?
We're trying to change thehabits.
Now we can dive deeper, but wehave to build trust.
We have to build trust andslowly explore okay, what are
the root causes of this problem?
So now, taking an even deeperdive, how do we build trust?

(21:57):
Right, that's going to varyfrom situation to situation.
For me, when I saw thattherapist, the only reason
really I trusted the guy becausemy friend vouched for him right
, and one of the successes I'vepersonally had is by being a
person of my word within mycommunities.
I think that's built mypersonal credibility that I

(22:21):
don't even have to solicit perse or say, hey, call me.
I get multiple calls ormessages a day, not a week a day
, for support, even when I'm offmy normal work or different
activities.
I'm working on why?
Because, one, I respect people,no matter where I encounter

(22:42):
them, at what level, whetherthey're going through a
situation, whether they'rerecovering, whether we've now
moved on and we keep in touch.
But also, at the same time, theyhave to have trust, never
disclosing confidentiality,never disclosing or breaking
confidentiality, making sure tobuild that trust with them and

(23:02):
figure out well, maybe I'm noteven the right person to
encounter them in that moment,because not every therapist is
right for every person.
It doesn't mean that therapistis not good, it doesn't mean
that person is not good, but ina way it's almost like dating.
You have that click.
I've had the same thing happenwhere I've seen therapists.
I went for a session and I justdidn't feel comfortable, so I

(23:26):
went to don't click, it'snothing personal.

Speaker 1 (23:29):
It's just we don't click or we are not ready for
that specific modality and thesame.

(23:49):
I have been caught head putupside down, and all that when I
was working in, like you know,the same, in mental hospitals
and in lockdown facilities.
And I always say it's notpersonal, it's not I just maybe
their, they're a presentation ofsomething that they.
My perfect example is like whenyou have a terrified little

(24:09):
puppy they're going to bite you,no matter how tender they are,
no matter how loving they are.
You are meeting them whenthey're in the most terrifying
moment of their lives.
When they cause, they do thingslike this.
It's not at you, but yes, thereis boundaries, there's
responsibilities that keepsociety at bay.

Speaker 2 (24:27):
I just wanted to add.
One more thing, too, is for anylisteners out there who might
be in the thought that theymight need help or want help At
the end of the day, you have towant it and you have to try.
There is a lot ofself-accountability A lot of
people don't like to hear, andwhen you are in that vulnerable

(24:49):
state you don't want to admit it.
It happens a lot more than wethink.
I'm guilty of it as well.
I didn't think anything waswrong with me Then.
I kind of suspected somethingwas going on, and it doesn't
mean I'm a bad person.
I suspected something was goingon, and it doesn't mean I'm a
bad person.
It was just something that Ilike to say.
It's the cumulative stress thatbuilds up that.
It doesn't necessarily have tobe one triggering event, right?

(25:12):
A lot of people like to thinkthe common buzzword now is PTSD
post-traumatic stress disorder.
Well, everyone experiencesdifferent types of stress.
Some of us might evenexperience really bad things.
Someone could lose their job,end up in the hospital, have a
severe car crash, they could gobankrupt, they could have a

(25:32):
family member die and they couldbe fine for a year, two years,
and then all of a suddensomething as small as they
forget something at the grocerystore and now they blow up on
the cash register clerk.
Now, was it necessarily thatcash register clerk that made

(25:53):
them stressed out?
No, it was probably those 10different things that just
happened to them over the lastyear and a half, that that was
finally what made the pot boilover.
And I say that because I thinktoo often we're quick to point
well, this, well this.
That's the problem.
It's a process.
I think anyone who saysrehabilitation, recovery,

(26:16):
getting better, is easy isfrankly giving bad advice and is
a liar.
I know that's strong to say.
But one, they've either nevergone through it.
Two, they have no clue andnever studied the topic.
And three, it's just notgenuine.
Anyone who magically says, inmy opinion, just go out and do a
run and you're going to feelbetter the serotonin and the

(26:39):
cortisol levels Is exercisegreat, yes, is art.
Is talking to a therapist,great.
But again, anyone who needshelp out there, I can say, as a
testament from my own personalexperience and people I've
helped, it's going to takeprobably a couple different
modalities and time.
There's no magic pill, there'sno magic.

(27:00):
Oh, let me take some thismedicine and magically, by
tomorrow I'm healthy and betterand I'm snapped out of it.
It doesn't work like that.
Even some people like to saycome on, you just got to put
some effort into it, you're nottrying hard enough.
And I think that is where we getthose negative environmental
factors that I was hinting aboutearlier, that even I

(27:22):
experienced that when I wastrying to get better.
There were some people who justlaughed at me or thought that I
was being weak, like you said,and I think it's a mix of that
continuous negativity but alsolack of understanding.
For example, I know people I'velost to suicide and I can only

(27:44):
imagine why, what happened, whatled to it.
But I really feel bad because Ido wonder sometimes could it be
that they didn't believe theyhad that support network?
And that's why I wanted to loopback around saying you know, we
shouldn't feel guilty forcarrying someone's burden,
whether they decided to dosomething like that, commit

(28:05):
suicide but at the same time weshould be cognizant to be able
to reach out and again, even ifwe're not a licensed
professional, if one of ourfriends may talk about that
serious subject or we feel theymay be presenting some type of
symptoms, that they may beseverely depressed, even leading
towards substance abuse orsuicide.

(28:27):
What do we do next?
Right, I think that's somethingthat's lacking in our society
how to help as just everyday,average people.

Speaker 1 (28:36):
That's what I call.
You know it's going to be kindof a vicious comparison, but you
know it's gonna be kind of avicious comparison.
But you know, when we say Iwant a six pack, you don't go
and do a hundred sit-ups andpush-ups and like, yeah, I have
it done now.
No, yeah, it's a process, right, it will hurt a lot in the
beginning.
You don't see no improvementwhatsoever and you continue

(28:57):
going and trying and it's diet,exercise, sleep, you know, it's
a whole bunch of other things.
It's almost a change of life,right.
You have to modify a lot ofthings and then, voila, you have
your six pack and if you don'tmaintain all this, they start
going away again.
What do I mean with that?

(29:18):
Mental health is health, right,it's treated like health in the
sense of like.
When we have an injury, likeyou say, it hurt, but it wasn't
that bad, it was deep, but itwas one injury.
Then I get another injury andanother injury.
Then, like you say, thatcashier just blew the whole
thing off.
Right, it wasn't the cashier orthe action of the cashier, it

(29:38):
was like I don't have no morespace for more injuries.
I'm bleeding out, right, and ittook you X amount of time to
get in that position?
And the question is,specifically because we're
celebrating mental healthawareness, women, we tend to
have our friends or groups andour cliques, and we do talk a
lot about what is going on inour social environment, what is

(30:01):
going on in our mental healthand what is going on in our
mental health, and et cetera, etcetera.
But when it comes to, orsometimes, our partners, if we
are having not been primaleducated, we don't give them the
space to talk and to feel theirfeelings.
And I don't know.
And I have a lot of guy friendsand they always told me that
it's changing, that now theyhave the opportunity to hear

(30:23):
somebody like you talking aboutlike, and they always told me
that it's changing, that nowthey have the opportunity to
hear somebody like you talkingabout like and they can see, I
see me in you.
And that impulsed me to talk toanother guy friend that, hey, I
noticed that you're not doingokay, because, it is true, a lot
of my clients they have beenreferred to me by my clients
They'll say, no, I think youshould go see X, y and Z because

(30:44):
it's your kind of thing, or youdon't have to re-explain X, y
and Z Also I I love how youtouch in that as a group.
How can we, can you give I don'tknow like tips either to
parents or youngsters and alsopeers that are male, that how

(31:05):
can we support you guys, becausethis episode is for you old,
that 20 something year old thatdrop out of college, or the one
that said you know what I wantto be entrepreneur, or the
person that's like I knowsomething that's going on with
me and I want to go see a coach.
I want to go see a person, butI don't know where to start.

Speaker 2 (31:26):
Yeah.
So thanks for that question.
So I'll try to answer that asconcisely as possible.
So taking a step back towardwhere I was right.
So I'm this college dropoutexploring now, learning through
other people.
So let's say, if we have anylisteners who are parents of
someone who they're concernedabout going into college or they

(31:48):
don't want them to go down thatnegative path and where I want
to share some of the success andmagic I've had now is I was not
only vulnerable, I was not onlyscared, but I realized you know
what.
The only way to really get outof my shell, so to speak and at
that time I was very introverted, more shy I have to do some

(32:11):
scary things as well.
What does that mean?
I have to now meet more randompeople, I have to talk to more
people, I have to look at careeroptions and I'll be honest,
that scared the hell out of me.
I had never really done thatbefore.
I wasn't taught how to do that.
So I became kind of a bookwormand started looking at YouTube

(32:33):
videos and all that when YouTubewas more new and just trying to
learn and learn from differentpeople and it doesn't mean
everyone's going to always havethe best advice, but I started
doing what worked for me andit's just those little wins,
those little successes.
For example, I moved back withmy parents.
They were supportive with thehome life.
I got a couple different jobs.

(32:55):
I started going back to schoolslowly at community college
level, and then I was going tonetworking events.
I was basically rebrandingmyself.
Before branding was a trendything and this is again back
2007 to 2009 era and for thepractical aspect of it, I
started reconnecting with someof my high school friends,

(33:18):
making new friends now gettinginto the workforce, and I think
it is truly healthy to have thatdiversity, because I had new
goals, new challenges.
I was trying things that were,at that time, a little scary and
out of my normal comfort zone,but I was also working in
different jobs in differentfields.

(33:39):
So I had a few part-time jobs.
I also went to school and I waslearning that balance also
meeting new people and meetingnew people with the intention of
actually genuinely wanting tolearn, not just oh well, I need
to meet this person because I'mgoing to get something from them
, and I think that's somethingthat we forget in society Too

(34:01):
often.
We're transactional, like abusiness oh well, I only want to
talk to Mr Smith because MrSmith is this and I only want to
talk to Ms Johnson because MsJohnson is the CEO of this.
That's nice, but I think mostpeople in society can see
through that and by building thegenuine relationships I learned

(34:22):
quickly at that young age thatquality over quantity I'd rather
go to an event and talk to oneor two people really well,
quality conversation, no fakestuff.
If we click, we click.
If we click, we click.
If we don't click, we don'tclick.
But almost like the, the datinganecdote, it's building

(34:43):
relationships and seeing how Ican actually add value to that
person's life.
So, even as a young 20, 22 yearold, think, well, I might not
have much to offer.
Well, I think, actually think,actually saying you know what?
I'm a rising student, I'minterested in these career paths
, I'm willing to learn, I'mwilling to take on new roles.
Is there any way I can shadowyou?

(35:05):
Maybe get a cup of coffee withyou, give my time, donate my
time.
Also, if you have anymentorship, advice, things of
that nature, that's at the basiclevel, then let's say, at a
level beyond that, maybe we findthat we have some kind of
commonality and keep thatrelationship going and I think
we'd be surprised to see a lotof our lives, no matter what

(35:28):
culture we're from, what countrywe're from, relationships are
so important.
For example, I have many familymembers who they were able to
get in a position of advantagethat led them to finding out
about a job because someone toldthem about a job opportunity,
if that makes sense, justsomething simple like that.

(35:49):
I've had experiences where, evengoing back to school when I
went to San Diego StateUniversity, because I was part
of different clubs, because Istarted connecting to different
social groups, I found out aboutopportunities, internships,
scholarships, grants, awards notonly locally in San Diego,

(36:19):
nationally and internationally,which has been a privilege,
because now that's how I cangive back, even in these forms,
which I'm always excited to,because I truly believe, with
great opportunities, there'sgreat responsibility that we
need to now use that to helpinform and share and spread the
wealth with people.
For me, I'm really excited tobe able to have this
conversation, even if it touchesone person to think, wow, this
guy was a dropout, he wasdepressed, he had no clue what

(36:42):
was going on in his life and nowto win all these awards, travel
to over 50 countries to be welloff, so to speak, in life,
where I really don't have toworry.
And now I'm more concernedabout how can I give back, how
can I help others, and I thinkit's important to have that
combination of just genuineconversations, relationship

(37:05):
building.
So let's say more at thecommunal level, something I'm a
part of thanks to a good friendof mine.
He started a men's group abouta year and a half ago.
Started a men's group about ayear and a half ago and in that
men's group we meet once aquarter and it's by invitation
only and we started with a smallcircle of people.
And what the goal is that wetry to say we're men of

(37:29):
integrity, men who want tosupport each other, and men who
might be going throughchallenges might be going
through successes.
But if we don't support eachother and men who might be going
through challenges might begoing through successes, but if
we don't support each other,then who will right?
Because at the end of the day,like you said, maybe for women,
at least in our area of SouthernCalifornia, it might be easier

(37:51):
to connect, but for men, I thinksocietally, the environment
expects well, tough it out.
Hey, just deal with it, you'rethe man of the house.
You have to pick it up, step itup, get another job right.

Speaker 1 (38:03):
Right.

Speaker 2 (38:12):
And we share.
Everyone goes around, shareswhat they're comfortable to
share.
What are their successes?
What are some things thatthey're working on, what do they
want to be working on andreally find ways to support each
other.
It's not a business mastermindgroup, it's not a political
group, it's not a religiousgroup.
It's strictly focused on peoplewho want to be there to support

(38:36):
other people and also beaccountable to themselves.
So that's another aspect in thecommunal space.
Now, I know a lot of peoplemight be thinking well, I don't
really have that kind ofconnection to other men who I
can trust and I get that.
That's where I would say well,now there's the avenue of the

(38:58):
therapists right.
One thing that I advocatestrongly about traditional
therapy you can do it now inperson, online, by phone.
There's chatbots based onartificial intelligence, and
what's cool about, I think, thetraditional licensed therapist
is that it's not a friend, it'snot family.

(39:18):
So for the people who mightfeel a little bit of shame,
concern someone's going tospread my secrets, I think
that's a great avenue to start,because this is a licensed
professional who has to maintainconfidentiality and you can
really be vulnerable with.
So that's another option forthat sharing.

(39:38):
And then, lastly, I'd like toshare a little bit about
self-accountability.
So, even though we're talkingabout communal groups, I say
self-accountability as theindividual person, but also
accountability within ourfamilies, within our friend
groups, within our religiousgroups, within our political

(40:03):
groups, right?
What I mean by that is that,yeah, we have to do our daily
tasks, go to our job, take careof our families, take care of
our kids.
But if we're recognizing thatsomething might be off, are we
mature enough, are we braveenough to also say I wonder why
I'm feeling this way?
It doesn't mean something'swrong with you, it doesn't mean
it's the end of the world, but,just like your car, you need an

(40:25):
oil change, you need a tune-up,you need maybe to replace some
belts in the engine, right?
So same thing.
Why is it so bad?
Or we're conditioned?
Same thing.
Why is it so bad?
Or we're conditioned, we'reprimed by society that, oh, but
if you go get the checkup uphere, you're crazy, something's
wrong with you, don't let anyonefind out, right?

(40:46):
So I think more thataccountability of how we react
in our friend groups, our socialgroups, our religious and
political groups if we do seesomeone who's vulnerable.
I'll be honest.
I won't name names of thelocation, but I've been a part
of some groups in the past thatI'm no longer a part of that.
I was very frustrated whenthese were supposed to be groups

(41:09):
that care about people and saythey're about community and they
were some of, sadly, themeanest and most divisive people
I'd ever met.
And I think it's reallyinteresting how sometimes we
think we're going to find careand comfort in some of these
groups and we do have to holdthose groups accountable and say
you know what, actually theactions you're giving toward me

(41:32):
are very negative, notsupportive, and you're just
gossiping about me rather thanhaving a sit down with me,
having lunch or conversing.
And I say, yeah, sometimes wedo need to cut the cord and
establish those boundaries.
Whether it's family, whetherit's the social groups, the
political groups, the religiousgroups, we have to peel back

(41:53):
that onion.
We have to peel back that onion, like I said, and then go back
to the root cause.

Speaker 1 (42:02):
So I'll stop rambling for that question.
You're not rambling.
So what I love about everythingthat you say, it gets to the
summary, the core values of ourpodcast or Oasis podcast, right,
that is be kind, meaning bekind with yourself, be kind with
others, because we don't knowwhere they have been or what
they're going through.
Be proud of who you are, whyyou are and where you have gone

(42:22):
through, because if you were notproud for the struggles that
you went through, somebody elsethat is 19 right now listening
to you is like, oh my God, I'min that situation right now, but
you are proud of it and youhave shown, just by example, by

(42:43):
being kind to yourself, like yousay, that seal of approval you
have gave right now, so many menthat seal of approval.
If I did it, if I went to thetrenches and it was scary and it
was really hard to find thosegroups and saying no to certain
groups and saying you know what?
This is not my people, this isnot my, where I gonna grow.
That is being proud of who youare and be loud.

(43:07):
I mean going to many people,like you say, talking and say,
hey, do you know what justhappened to me?
Do you know?
Do you know so-and-so, like hecan help you or like he can talk
to you like the connector rightCreating community of health.
Just, it's the hell of the hellof the community, the hell
mental health, the physicalhealth and, the most important

(43:28):
thing, I think, the hell ofbeing vulnerable, being accepted
and accepting you a hundredpercent.
You, no matter what that youlooks like and you were not
rambling, that's what I was like.
I was just like oh, I can hearyou hours talking.
If you want to connect with you, in the footnotes we're going
to have all your informationthat way they can connect with

(43:51):
you.
But do you have any specialproject that you want to shout
out or do you want to let usknow what is your next big thing
that you're doing?

Speaker 2 (44:00):
Yeah.
So before I answer that, Iguess I wanted to touch base on
one more thing, if it's okaywith you to give a shout out to
a book I recently acquired.
So I don't know if you've heardof this one.
It's called Sacred Rest by DrSandra Dalton Smith, and I
really have been promoting thisone a lot.
I don't get any royalties offof it.

(44:21):
I think the concept that shesimplified in her theories the
seven types of rest that focuson the physical rest, mental
rest, sensory rest, creativerest, emotional rest, social
rest and spiritual rest and it'sso practical because even back

(44:42):
in the day when I didn't know alot about these topics, I'd
think, well, I need to sleepmore, I need to eat better, I
need to just chill and veg out,so to speak.
That's a commonly used phraseand I'd still wonder why I'm
feeling the same way.
But what she does is she nicelyoutlines in practical ways that

(45:02):
I highly encourage.
Even if you don't get the book,there's a lot of great articles
and TED Talks that she'sprovided.
So that was just something Iwanted to leave as a practical
note for everyone.
Another thing that I think isvery important, moving forward a
little bit of theory that I'vebeen looking into and learning
about more, not only for myselfbut to help others, is the

(45:24):
concept of neuroplasticity.
So I don't know if youraudience has heard about this
much, but one of the sad parts,I think.
Going back to the conversation,of One of the sad parts, I
think, going back to theconversation of oh my gosh,
there's something wrong with me,I'm going crazy.
These bad phrases that peoplecommonly use if they're
suffering from something inmental health are, oh, I'm going

(45:47):
psycho.
And it's just these triggeringwords that can really condition
you to the negative.
Right, think about it.
If someone told a persontomorrow hey, you know what, I
think something really bad isgoing to happen to your family.
Just that thought.

(46:10):
That's such a bad and negativethought that I think any one of
us, if we hear that, we're like,oh my God, I really hope that
doesn't happen.
That would be so awful.
Now imagine if I said I havethis really interesting feeling
that something really good isgoing to happen to you tomorrow
and I'm so excited for you.
Who knows, maybe you'll win thelottery, maybe you're going to
get a new position, but you knowwhat, I'm just so excited for
you.
I don't know about you, but Ican even feel it.

(46:33):
Saying the two differentexamples of even I felt bad,
saying something bad is probablygoing to happen to you tomorrow
, versus I'm so excited for you.
I really want something good tohappen, and I think in our
words we carry a lot of energyand what I'm getting at is, with
that neuroplasticity, a lot ofpeople sometimes think, okay,

(46:54):
something's wrong with me, soit's always going to be wrong
with me and I'm permanentlyhaving this issue.
And there's no going back moredetail than what I'm explaining

(47:18):
briefly, that there are ways tointentionally trigger and
activate the mind so that youcan repair it, like we were
talking about repairing avehicle or getting that tune-up,
and I think it's so fascinatingthat there's more research on
that now.
Fifteen plus years ago, in thosestories that I told you about,
I had never heard about anythingrelated to that, but now that
there's more theories about it,I think it will definitely be a

(47:39):
game changer for people to seenot only can the brain have
negative effects to it, but itcan be reversed or even improved
even better than it was before.
Same with traumatic braininjuries.
I know there's a lot ofmilitary personnel as well as
people who have just been inaccidents, who have suffered
from traumatic brain injuries,and know there's a lot of
military personnel as well aspeople who have just been in
accidents who have suffered fromtraumatic brain injuries and

(47:59):
they've showed that that hasaltered the state of the brain.
But there's ways to correctthat, whether through
chiropractor work, whetherthrough psychological work,
whether through medical doctorsand surgery.
So there's so many interesting,innovative things that are
happening nowadays that I couldtalk about this for a week on
and on, about just the differentoptions and things.

(48:22):
I've even seen work for myselfor for others.

Speaker 1 (48:25):
One point I like about the conversation that you
just did is neuroplasticity.
Is this amazing thing thatwhere we put the focus, the
brain goes.
It's like training your brainto rethink in a certain way and
you get like these connections,how sometimes, like you say, we
have been primed in ourcommunities and in our families

(48:46):
to not have that neuroplasticityof like how we express things.
I always say show me a normalperson.
When they say, oh, you're crazy.
Okay, what is normal, right?
So it depends who you ask andeverybody will give you a
different answer.
Neuroplasticity is somethingthat we will talk about how to
improve your mental health withit in the next episode, so stay

(49:07):
tuned for that.
I just want to thank you somuch for such an amazing hour
talking to you.
Like I say, with him we cantalk hours and hours and hours
because he's just amazing, andif you haven't followed him,
please go and follow all theaddresses in how to get in
contact with you.

(49:28):
We'll be in the footnotes, alsoin the promotionals in the
podcast and once again, I thankyou so much for the space that
you give to all our men to behere and to see themselves in
you and all the beautiful thingsthat is possible to have.

Speaker 2 (49:46):
Thank, you so much.
I just want to say, if you haveone more minute, real quick, I
just wanted to close up not onlythanking your audience.
I wanted to share somethingwith the skeptical people out
there, right, because I'm surein this hour there's someone out
there who's going to say, yeah,but that was nothing.
So I'd like to kind of movefast forward to where I've been

(50:07):
since that situation.
So not only have I had manyaccomplishments without going
into too much detail, I've beenprivileged to work on many
interesting, let's say, projectsranging from with governments,
with nonprofit sector, businesssector, military sector.
Some of those have ranged fromprojects in the US, in different

(50:28):
countries.
I just got back from Syria andIraq.
Those are conflict zones.
Part of my specialty is ininternational security and
conflict resolution and, on theglobal scale of things, part of
my research has also focused onpost-conflict reconstruction as
well as how do we help engagewith people who might have gone

(50:50):
through difficulties or are andwe have to be conscious
culturally also based onpeople's religions, people's
moral beliefs.
So whether we're that personwho is from a different
background, different culture,or we're engaging that person,
we have to be respectful.
I've been in situations wherethe mental health topic got
brought up and it was quicklyshut down as basically saying

(51:15):
well, based on my personalbeliefs, I don't see that I need
any help because that was thewill of God or whoever was the
higher power that they believedin.
And that's their personalbelief, in their faith so strong
that they truly saw me as morethe person who might need help.

(51:36):
Because why am I making such anissue of it?
And I don't necessarily seethat as that person having a
problem.
If that's truly theirconviction and their faith and
their belief, then I see that asI should respect that.
Otherwise, I'm beingethnocentric in my own view,
trying to force my views or myopinions on that person.
So I found that veryinteresting as well.

(51:58):
Also, in some other places thatI've traveled to, I was asking
well, what about the topic ofdeath and the fear of death and
the death that people havewitnessed?
And I was told I don't feardeath, I have my faith.
Why should I be afraid of death?
So it's very interesting.

(52:20):
I'm not saying what we've talkedabout in this hour is the
end-all, be-all, the only way.
There's so many ways, there'sso many perspectives and I think
it's also important to respectthose perspectives.
That's why I said I could trulygo on and on and on and on,
because I've lived it myself.
I've been in conflict zones,I've met people from conflict
zones, I've had my ownnear-death experiences, I've

(52:42):
talked to people who've hadnear-death experiences, who have
been in horrific situations.
There's so many different wayswe have to solve these global
conflicts, but especiallyrelated to mental health.
So, again, peeling back theonion, we can't just apply
cookie cutter principles toevery situation, whether by city
, by culture, by ethnic group,by country, by nationality, by

(53:07):
so many different ways.
I just want to give a warningout there too, to any
practitioners that if we thinkwe're just going to learn one
modality, one theory and justapply it, we can't.
As someone who has more thatlife experience, who's worked on
that peer support level or thatecological first aid level,
also working with people inconflict zone spaces, there's a

(53:29):
lot of secondary trauma thatpeople experience, and I think
that's something that needs tobe addressed as well.
So just wanted to share alittle bit on that and I'm happy
if you ever want me to comeback and chat more about that.
I have many stories to share.

Speaker 1 (53:47):
And we will have you back when we are talking
specifically about our firstresponders and secondary trauma.
Because, it is true, thecaregiver that applies also to
caregivers, right, the heroes,as they call it that are the
ones that are a lot of the timesuffering in silence because
you're like wait, that didn'thappen to me, why I am the one

(54:09):
that is right now suffering, orhow dare me to suffer about this
?
Because it's not an area thatthe same as neuroplasticity.
It's not an area that, the sameas neuroplasticity, is not an
area that we have explored toomuch or talk too much.
It's not talk about it thatmuch.
It has to do also with thistheory of the mirror neurons,
and neurons that fire togetherstay together.
That happens with traumaticevents too.

(54:31):
Even though you haven't livedthat traumatic event due to like
, you can put the piecestogether and you're seeing the
pain in the other person.
It becomes your pain.
Self-care is for everybody and Iagree, background, religious,
et cetera is a makeup.
Depends what makeup you use, itwill be the result right.

(54:55):
So in Oroasis we try that youget what you need in different
modalities that you can try,like one thing that opened my
eyes, other than traveling towith a lot of countries and
being a peacemaker, it was thatin some places we don't have
therapists, we don't havepsychologists.
We have the shaman, or we havebreath work, or we have Reiki,
or we have the shaman, or wehave breath work, or we have

(55:17):
Reiki, or we have sometimeschanting or praying, etc.
Etc.
Etc.
There's so many modalities thathelp to stabilize your mental
health.
So if you're out therewondering what is out there,
just come to our website and youwill.
We have different modalitiesthere that you can test, like
masterclasses to test, becausethat's the biggest shout out

(55:42):
that you can give to anybody.
That is like, hey, try yoga, ortry therapy, or try it, make it
so normal and so normalized andso common that you say, hey, do
you try that new breath worktechnique?
Or did you try you read thistherapist new theory about

(56:02):
neuroplasticity.
So we, as always, thank you somuch for opening the eyes to um.
You can tell he is an amazingum person to talk to.
You can talk hours to know andyou never get bored.
You're just like tell me moreand we are going to have more.
Don't worry, we have plenty ofour guests always come back,

(56:23):
like many times, boogie is goingto go for a very well-deserving
vacation, but everybody, raiseyour little cup of tea, if you
have one, and say thank you toBoogie for warming our soul or
intellect.
Thank you so much for having usin here, for sharing with us
all your knowledge.
As we conclude today's episode,take a moment to reflect.

(56:48):
Be proud of the journey, forevery step that brings you
closer to who you truly are.
Embrace the kindness towardsyourself, as you did to each one
of our guests.
Honor the bravery in youractions and celebrate the

(57:11):
importance of mental wellnesswith us.
And remember it's an exercisethat we practice daily.
Continue to grow and flourish,knowing that we are in this
training for our mental wellnesstogether.
We are so proud to have you aspart of our community, so join
us on Instagram at OroasisCommunity Podcast for more
inspiring conversations.

(57:31):
More inspiring conversations,valuable resources and
supportive content, includingjournals, worksheets and content
in Spanish.
Exciting things are in thehorizon.
Our Oasis community break roomsare coming soon to grab tools
and take a break for your mentalhealth.

(57:51):
Also, we are featuring oursix-month training ethical
mental health coaching programdesigned for new and experienced
coaches, as well as holisticand healing professionals.
Enroll to create a safe andtransformative experience to
your clients.
Links in the bio.
Until next time, take care,stay connected and welcome to

(58:16):
our Oasis community.

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