January 28, 2025 • 29 mins
Have you ever found yourself trapped in a cycle of love and pain that you just can't seem to escape? Join me, Grace Sandra, as I uncover the truth behind trauma bonds and why breaking free is so much harder than it seems. Sharing my own journey through a manipulative relationship, I reveal the addictive cycle of abuse and affection that binds victims to their abusers. This episode challenges the oversimplified narratives often touted by pop psychology, urging listeners to seek deeper understanding and authentic healing.
Social media is flooded with catchy, feel-good advice, but is it really helping? Together, we'll explore the complexities of trauma and the misleading nature of pop psychology, particularly when it comes to issues like narcissistic abuse. I dive into the importance of therapy, meditation, and self-education in my healing journey. Discover why relying on evidence-based practices and being discerning with online content is crucial for moving beyond mere survival to true emotional well-being.
Embracing negative emotions is not a sign of weakness but a necessary step towards authentic healing. In this empowering episode, I encourage listeners to reject the "good vibes only" mindset and instead embrace the full spectrum of their emotions. As we journey together, I extend a heartfelt message of solidarity and strength, reminding you that you are not alone in this. Share your own experiences with pop psychology by reaching out via the email provided, and let’s continue to build a community of resilience and support.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Have y'all ever scrolled through Instagram and
been like, why is everyone atherapist?
Like why, you know there's awhole lot of manifestation is
popular.
Trust me, I believe inmanifestation, but there's a
whole lot of misinformation,especially on IG, and I love a
(00:21):
good affirmation as much as thenext.
I practice affirmations, Ipractice subliminals, I leave
myself voice notes, I do allkinds of ish to change my
mindset.
However, I think we need torealize that pop psychology
isn't really cutting it, andtoday I want to separate the
difference between poppsychology and actual psychology
, because what we're not goingto do is just let this pop
(00:42):
psychology run our life and notdo anything that leads us to
actual healing.
Pop psychology gives us allthat like, just, oh, love
yourself, okay.
What the hell does that looklike?
Speak your truth, okay.
What the hell does that looklike?
Though, and also, a lot of us,like myself, are multiple trauma
survivors.
We have very deep rooted traumalike how the hell do you get to
the bottom of that?
(01:02):
And you're not just getting tothe bottom of it with Instagram
memes.
So, on this episode, we'regoing to go beyond the surface
level and explore the actual,real psychology and things that
have led to healing, and my ownas well.
Hey, I'm Grace Sandra and thisis the Out here Trying to
Survive podcast.
No-transcript stood out to mebecause if you follow me on IG,
(01:32):
you know I share a lot of memes.
I try not to share ones thatare obviously harmful in any way
or that promote some sort ofweird pop psychology.
I don't share like feel goodstuff, like Jesus loves you,
even though I do actuallybelieve Jesus loves us.
Speak your truth, even though Ido actually believe we should
speak our truth.
I try to share ones fromcreators that go like a little
bit deeper, that are reallygetting to the bottom of what it
(01:56):
means to like use these memesand use these ideas and things
that are so carefully curated onan IG feed to actually lead
towards some healing.
But we can never deny that,like real psychology that people
have went to school for andstudied and got masters of
social work and became licensedclinical therapists etc.
Is going to always have moreinformation and knowledge than
(02:17):
what we can get off of IG.
This podcast is a hope orientedstorytelling space.
A warm hug of solidarity fromme to you as we go on this
journey of surviving andthriving.
Welcome.
First, let me tell y'all a story.
So back when I was beingnarcissistically abused, I
(02:39):
developed something called atrauma bond.
A trauma bond unlike poppsychology says that trauma bond
is when two people are justbonding over trauma.
That is absolutely not what atrauma bond is.
People bonding over trauma isliterally just that they're just
bonding over trauma.
A trauma bond is a very deepattachment to an abuser or to
(03:00):
abusive behavior and it developsas a result of someone abusing
you or severely mistreating you.
It's an attachment, it's anaddiction.
A it develops as a result ofsomeone abusing you or severely
mistreating you.
It's an attachment, it's anaddiction.
A trauma bond is a very complexpsychological phenomena that
happens in the midst of very,very, very dehumanizing behavior
and it only occurs when thereis an imbalance of power and
(03:20):
when there is a cycle of abuseand then affection abuse and
then affection.
So you and your affection abuseand then affection.
So you and your girl gettingtogether and talking about how
your husband's hurt you is nottrauma bonding, that's just you
bonding.
Just call it what it is ahealthy bonding.
A trauma bond is actually apattern that an abusive person
sets up and when I was married Iwas so deeply trauma bonded.
(03:42):
The trauma, the trauma bondforms deeper when the, when the
abuse is very severe and thenthe, the affection that turns on
afterwards is also veryoverwhelming.
You're basically sending some.
It's a very brutal, brutal,brutal form of dehumanization
that I I had never felt or dealtwith before.
It was crazy, it was thecraziest shit I ever felt.
(04:05):
Because the thing is, and whensomeone treats you really bad,
like let's someone let's saysomeone just, for example comes
and pew pews you in your legtwice, and then you're like that
was terrible.
Why would you pew pew me in myleg?
Like, why would you do that?
You're very confused, first ofall, if they've never pew pewed
you before, like, would you dothat?
You're very confused, first ofall, if they've never pew pewed
(04:25):
you before, like what the hell?
But then the next day they'relike you know what?
I'm so sorry.
I really love you.
I never meant to pew pew.
You're in your leg, a traumabond and this is what I had.
You're so desperate for theaffection and the love and the,
the making up for it that you'relike oh my god, thank you so
much for apologizing, because itwas probably my fault that you
(04:48):
pew-pewed me in the leg.
It's probably all of me.
It's not anything you did, it'sme and it's a very sick cycle.
I really can't explain.
It's very difficult for me, as asurvivor of this, to explain
how or why, because most people,if they're like if your husband
is pew-pewing you in the leg,then just leave, and it's not
that simple.
I wish I could say that it was.
(05:10):
That situation never happenedto me before.
By the way, I was just giving arandom example.
But my point is is if you aretrauma bonded, someone is
abusing you and then they'reshowing enough remorse, enough
affection and enough love and itcould be crumbs at this point
that you're so accepting of it,you're actually thankful for it
and you're awaiting the nextabusive trigger because it
(05:33):
actually triggers something inyour body.
So you become literallyphysically peptide, addicted to
these vicious cycles and to theabuser and to the abuse itself.
It was the most psychologicallydamaging, horrific thing I've
ever been through ever.
The intermittent nature of abusecycles of very severe abuse,
(05:54):
then affection, then abuse, thenaffection, then abuse, then
affection makes the victimbecome incredibly, first of all
dependent on the abuser, veryconfused to the point of
cognitive dissonance, which isalso psychologically recognized
as a condition that you can havewhen you're experiencing these
(06:14):
abuse cycles.
It also can leave you veryhopeful that the abuser will
change if you change.
It creates a deeper emotionalattachment and it makes it very,
very, very difficult to leave.
This is often seen very acutelyin hostage situations or in
cult situations.
These people have developed avery severe trauma bond.
Something that's reallyconfusing about trauma bonds is
(06:36):
the longer they get stretchedout, the deeper the wound.
So I'll give an example.
Give an example.
In 2017, I believe in, likeJanuary February of 2017, one of
the most abusive episodes my exhad ever had happened on a car
trip back home from Chicago.
We were driving back home fromChicago and the abuse was so
horrific it's still, to this day, one of the most traumatizing
(07:00):
like nights of my life.
It was about two and a halfhours nonstop, at which point we
were driving on I-94.
It was January February, so itwas very icy roads, it was very
cold, it was dark and it wasprobably about 20 degrees, and I
actually considered jumping outof the car just to get away
from him.
At that point, we had an eightmonth old baby I think she was
(07:22):
eight months old and she wassleeping in the backseat and I
just kept thinking about how, ifI jump out of the car right now
, well, first of all I'm goingto die because we're going 65,
70 miles an hour, that I wouldbe, you know, run over by the
car behind us because it was afull expressway and I just kept
thinking my daughter would wakeup and I wouldn't be there to
nurse her and I just didn't wantto let him win like that.
(07:44):
But I wanted to escape theabuse.
So bad, it was just the mostrelentless, horrific abuse,
traumatizing nights I've everbeen through, like I said.
So I didn't jump out of the car.
Obviously I was screaming andcrying and begging him to stop
and he wouldn't.
And when we got home the nextmorning he rolled over and said
(08:08):
you know, I'm so sorry aboutlast night.
I was just, you know, reallystressed because earlier in the
day, before that happened, I hadbeen asking him like maybe we
should take a break we weremarried been asking him like
maybe we should take a break.
We were married.
But I was like maybe we shouldjust take like a three, four
week break, maybe we should getseparated because I'm at a limit
with what I can handle withyour abusive behaviors.
So I was calling him out.
If you know, you know whenyou're leaving an abuser the
(08:31):
most dangerous time is whenyou're trying to leave, and
literally that's what happened.
I tried to leave earlier thatday and on the way home I was
punished very severely.
So anyway, in the morning hesaid, like I'm so sorry and it
just touched my, touched mylittle heart so much and I
(08:51):
rolled over and, you know,hugged him and kissed him and I
was like it's okay, you know,that's all I wanted was for you
to say you're sorry and that youlove me.
You know, looking back, it wasjust a perfect example of a
woman who was very, very deeplytrauma bonded.
That was 2017.
I didn't.
He didn't end up moving outuntil the fall of 2019.
(09:11):
So if you can imagine, you know, two, three, four years of
living like that, it's verydeeply ingrained in your body.
So please hear me when I tellyou if someone tells you they're
trauma bonded to someonebecause they've read something
on Instagram, they're probablynot.
They probably have no idea whatit is to be addicted to someone
into abuse cycles.
(09:32):
Like someone who's actuallygone through that shit.
I was doing narcissistic abuseand verbal abuse coaching a few
years ago and I've only ever metand I was talking to hundreds
of women on TikTok and meetingwomen primarily on TikTok,
setting up coaching sessions andI've only ever met one person
who was more trauma bonded thanI was Only one One out of
(09:56):
hundreds of women that I talkedto I was.
I am the picture of traumabonding Like if you look up
trauma bonding the dictionary,there's my dumb ass, completely
trauma bonded.
It took me a really long time tostop letting him manipulating
me, to stop sleeping with him,to stop begging him to love me,
to stop begging him for kissesand hugs.
(10:17):
And even after we wereseparated, even after we were
divorced it was a full year ortwo, I think after we were
divorced was like the last timewe slept together Like I was
still trauma bonded.
And let me tell y'all this wasnot me not trying.
This was me trying.
This was not me not trying.
This was me in therapy.
This was me doing EMDR twice aweek for like 12 weeks at one
(10:42):
point.
This was me going to therapyonce a week, sometimes twice a
week, when things were the worst.
This was me trying to pursuemeditation.
This was me trying to change mymindset.
This was me reading books abouttrauma bonding, reading books
about escaping from the grasp ofa psychological manipulator.
This was me doing shit topursue healing and hope and my
(11:02):
ass was still so fucking traumabonded it's literally like
beyond explanation and I getpeople were mad at me.
I started just not tellingpeople stuff because I could not
explain the very deep level ofattachment and I actually did
some things that were likepsychological exercises to try
to unearth it.
I would picture an actual likecord like a very thick, very
(11:27):
strong cord.
Like a cord like this thick onYouTube I'm probably if you're
not watching on YouTube, youcould see it like like the size
of a coffee mug or something.
Youtube you could see it likelike the size of a coffee mug or
something.
So a very thick cord and Ipictured it wrapped around us
both and I would picture likesomething coming in like a
chainsaw and just cutting it.
I still believe to this dayit's January 20, 2025.
(11:51):
I still believe to this day.
If I were to put a percentageon it, I'm probably like 1%
trauma bonded to him.
Still, there is just somethingthat I haven't been able to
fully, fully heal from.
I hope that one day I can getdown to zero, but there is a
little, teeny tiny.
It might even be less than 1%,because it doesn't affect my
behavior, but the desiresometimes is still there and
(12:13):
that's what's really weird.
And now, now I'm healed enoughto be able to say like, oh well,
no, obviously I wouldn't dothat or obviously I wouldn't
ever want him again or anythinglike that.
Like I can reason with myselfnow, but there was a time where
I couldn't.
I couldn't at all.
It just the desire toexperience those patterns with
him, or to experience the kindof abuse that he was giving me,
(12:35):
or to experience the affectionor the vicious cycle was so
strong.
So now ask yourself, when yousee little memes on Instagram
about trauma bonds, were youtrauma bonded or were you just
sad?
This is a larger issue ingeneral of people on Instagram
and TikTok and other placesusing themes that, like
survivors of real, like complexpsychological phenomena are just
(13:00):
casually throwing around, likenarcissism and narcissistic
abuse.
There is a whole community onTikTok that I gained as a result
of talking about narcissisticabuse and realizing there are
survivors out here of a verydeep, complex type of abuse, a
very specific type of abuse.
That is really hard to explainif you've never been a part of
it.
And so then when I see peopleon Instagram being like, yeah,
(13:24):
you know, he cheated on me, thatfucking narcissist and it's
like, yes, people withnarcissistic personality
disorder typically do cheat, butnot all cheaters have
narcissistic personalitydisorder and not all cheaters
are narcissists.
Cheaters are just cheaters, andthat's not a great thing.
But the mislabeling of thesevery complicated phenomena is
(13:45):
really fucking annoying and itwaters down people who've
experienced something reallydeep and complex and are trying
to find answers.
So anyway, child, this is justa friendly reminder that real
psychology is grounded inresearch, rigorous studies and
evidence-based practices.
Real psychology acknowledgesthe complexity of human behavior
(14:05):
and mental health and it alsorealizes that there is no one
size fits all solution.
And that's not what you're goingto get from pop psychology on
Instagram and I'm not sayingthat all pop psychology is bad.
Like I said before, I've sharedit.
But this is my warning to youplease be discerning.
Please be discerning before youjust take a meme and run with
it.
And, like I said, I share a lotof memes on my Instagram
(14:27):
stories and I am discerningbefore I share and if it's
something that needs a littlebit of clarification, I'll add a
little text like hey, you knowwhat's the.
I'll just say something toaddress what it's saying.
If I feel like it needs alittle bit more complexity, I'll
just add my little two cents.
Here's three questions you canask yourself if you find
yourself leaning towardssomething that you feel like is
true, but just kind of givingyou a little bit of ick or you
(14:49):
don't know for sure.
One is is this evidencesupported by research?
Are there any links?
Are there any sources?
Like who's saying it?
Two, does it resonate with mylived experience?
This is literally exactly whatI was dealing with with being
trauma bonded and seeing peopletalk about trauma bonds like
it's this cute little thing.
And then, finally and mostimportantly, is this piece of
(15:12):
advice helping me to learn andgrow or is it just pissing me
off?
And if you find an account orwhatever on Instagram, that's
just like what the hell are theytalking about?
Just unfollow y'all, justunfollow.
The biggest reason that I reallyam passionate about this is
because pop psychology leads tomisdiagnoses.
It also leads to ineffectivecoping mechanisms, like there
(15:33):
was one time that I was tryingto tell someone like I'm trauma
bonded and she said somethinglike Grace, that's just an
excuse.
It's just an excuse.
I was absolutely positive thatthat was not just an excuse.
I was literally trying to helpthem understand what I'm going
through.
This is what I'm currentlystruggling with.
The thing is, if you're dealingwith someone in a cut and dry
(15:53):
hostage situation who hasStockholm syndrome or a cut and
dry cult situation, let's saythat person is evolved enough to
be able to say, like I haveStockholm syndrome, I legit have
Stockholm syndrome.
What should be said is it'samazing that you know what you
have and what you're dealingwith.
Let's help you figure out howto get through it.
But immediately for someone tosay to me like Grace, that's
(16:16):
just an excuse.
Obviously it made me feel shamefor something I had developed,
not as a result of my own doingsomeone else's, and it didn't
help me heal, period.
It also leads to people feelinglike they're failing at healing
and like failing atmanifestation if it doesn't look
like how an Instagram meme saysit should be.
(16:37):
You know what I'm saying?
Like we should never feel likewe're failing at life because of
something we read on anInstagram meme.
Like no y'all, no, just no.
Pop psychology on Instagram,especially because that's the
main culprit does not and willnever acknowledge the
complexities of each person'sindividual issue and problem.
(16:58):
One thing I hate motherfuckinghate is how on Instagram and
Facebook, especially in thecomments, people apply like real
silly shit to everyone.
Like I'll try to give anexample Like someone will say
something like see, that's whyblack men don't celebrate single
black mothers or that's whyblack women don't celebrate
(17:21):
black men.
I'm just trying to give you anexample, because those are such
like cutthroat issues that arealways brought up and these
broad, sweeping, generalizedlike as if all black men or all
black women are a monolith, andit's like what, what are we even
talking about here?
What are you doing?
What are you saying?
Like, please, shut the entirefuck up, please.
But it also keeps people fromactually seeking help and real
(17:45):
guidance from people who haveactual degrees and experience
and create can create a complexplan for you to move forward and
address the issues going on inyour life.
Qualified mental healthprofessionals are a gift.
They are a gift, especiallygood ones.
Not all of them are good.
Some of them suck and they'renot perfect people, but they are
a gift.
They are a gift, especiallygood ones.
Not all of them are good, someof them suck and they're not
perfect people, but they are agift and hopefully you will use
(18:06):
them and please know that it isnever, never a mistake to ask
for help, never.
I know the strong black womanphenomenon is really a thing,
but we got to shut that down.
Another issue is this good vibes, only shit.
Now, here's the thing.
Here's the thing.
I'm all about trying to havegood vibes.
I'm all about trying to havepositive vibes.
(18:27):
I literally live that way.
I try to keep my vibrationstrong.
It's a real thing.
If you don't believe it, readliterally anything from Dr Joe
Dispenza and you'll understandlike we literally do emit
vibrations as human beings andit literally does affect things
around us.
We literally can tell frombeing around someone the kind of
vibration that they areemanating.
That is why sometimes, whenyou're around someone that you
(18:49):
don't feel good about, you havelike a feeling in your gut that
something's not right is becauseof the vibration that they are
literally emitting that wecannot see.
This is a real thing.
It's as real as gravity that wealso cannot see.
Okay, however, when someoneposts good vibes only, a lot of
times that can feel more likejust quieting and silencing
(19:11):
anyone who feels anything otherthan good, and it discourage
people.
It can discourage us from likeprocessing our very real
emotions, which are needed tofeel good.
The only reason why I feel goodtoday is because I sat with
negative emotions yesterday.
Because I yesterday, like Imean in years past because I've
been sitting with negativeemotions and letting myself feel
(19:32):
what I feel and letting myselfcry about it and moan about it
and rage about it and feel angerabout it, and I didn't good
vibes myself every day.
So, yeah, I feel good vibestoday, but that's because I let
myself feel some bad vibesbefore.
You know what I'm saying.
If you don't let yourself feelwhat you're feeling, because you
read good vibes only onInstagram, it's going to lead to
suppressed emotions, suppressedtears, maybe to the point that
(19:55):
you won't even be able to cryanymore At some point.
It's going to lead toinauthenticity, which is also a
vibe that can be put out, thatpeople will read and feel from
you, which is not welcoming, andit can also lead to you feeling
shame, which is so unnecessary,and we know from Mama, dr Brene
Brown, that shame has no placein healing.
You cannot heal with shame.
Shame has to go away, andanyone that gives you shame is
(20:18):
not leading towards your healingperiod.
It's really important, y'all,to acknowledge and validate all
of the feelings that you have.
I cannot stress that enough.
This is not just my opinion.
There's like 10.
You can grab any randomself-help book off the shelf and
they will tell you that youhave to feel all of your
feelings.
The only way past it is througha bitch.
An Instagram meme that saysgood vibes only isn't going to
(20:39):
encourage you to bust out yourjournal.
You know, to practicemindfulness and to go to therapy
to deal with your verydifficult feelings, but I'm
gonna tell you to do that.
And then the final issue that Ihave with all of this is that it
really does promote a one sizefits all way of healing, and the
thing is that's not true, y'all.
I have enough girlfriends in mylife.
I've been to enough therapists.
(21:01):
One of my very best friends inthe world is a licensed
psychotherapist, and what I knowfor sure, for damn sure is that
everyone's healing journey isreally different and it takes
time and effort very differently.
Some people are geneticallypredisposed to different coping
mechanisms, for like, forexample, alcohol.
That's been pretty well studiedand proven.
(21:23):
Some people are literally bornwith the genetic gene that has
that are predisposed to wantingto cope with alcohol right.
That's going to be a harderjourney than someone else Like.
For example, I've talked veryopenly about how my journey with
being assaulted as a kid for adecade from my father father
sexually has led to me copingwith sex and sexuality.
(21:46):
That's very different thansomeone else and their journey
with you know whatever they wentthrough in their childhood and
the way that they cope now.
There is no one-size-fits-allway of healing and I'm here to
tell you you have to find yourown journey and please, please,
please, shut out any voices,especially random Instagram meme
(22:07):
voices, where you find yourselfcomparing your healing journey
to someone else as opposed toreally enjoying your journey and
how it looks for you, becausereally and I hope you know this
true healing really does comefrom within.
It really is an inside job,building your self-esteem back
up after trauma and abuse andall sorts of divorce, whatever.
All sorts of things really doescome from you.
You know even that sounds alittle buzzword-ish, but it's
(22:28):
true.
Like self-love is literally themost important love.
No one else has to live withyou for all of your life but you
.
Something that's really beenjust so harmful for me in my
journey towards healing ispeople expecting me to do it
their way or on their timeline.
That has hurt me so much, inpart in part because ever since
(22:49):
I got into an abusive marriage,once I realized it took me a
while even to realize I wasbeing abused.
I just knew something wasreally wrong Once I realized I
was being abused and I went toget help specifically for that.
I literally told them Once Irealized I was being abused and
I went to get help specificallyfor that.
I, you know, literally toldthem.
Once I realized I was beingabused, I went to a therapist
specifically to talk to herabout the fact that I believed I
was in an abusive marriage.
After three or four months shediagnosed me with complex PTSD,
(23:13):
which I had never even heard ofcomplex PTSD before that.
But it was very obvious that Ihad PTSD.
The way that it was showing wasbecoming almost literally
intolerable for my ex-husband,for my husband at the time.
I think I probably already hadcomplex PTSD from my childhood,
but I had been able to handle it, but there was something about
(23:33):
being in that marriage that justpushed me over the top.
Anyway, my point is somethingthat really hurt me is once I
realized I was being abused.
I was trying so hard to get outof it and I was trying so hard
to survive it and so hard tosurvive myself.
I very rarely gave up.
I very rarely gave up.
If you've ever been aroundsomeone who has in an abusive
(23:54):
relationship, you've seenthere's a few versions,
particularly with women.
There's women who just give upand surrender to it and they're
like this is just all I'm evergoing to have in life.
There's women who fight it andfight really, really hard to
survive it.
And there's women who aredetermined, no matter what, I'm
going to get out of this.
I was pretty much clearly,clearly always in the determined
(24:18):
category.
I was determined to fight it.
I was determined to stand upfor myself.
I was determined to get out ofit.
I was determined to stand upfor myself.
I was determined to get out ofit.
I was determined to livedifferently.
And what hurt me so much waswhen people tried to, and what
hurt me so much was when peopletried to move me along on my
healing journey in a way thatfelt good for them, in a way
that was comfortable for them.
You know, I had people tellingme like I'm just so
(24:40):
uncomfortable with you doingthis or you doing that, and I'm
like bitch, I'm trying tosurvive.
Some of these things I feellike I can't even control.
And I'm just trying to behonest with you, that's just
where I'm at.
It wasn't like I'm giving up,it was just like this is just
where I'm at.
I feel like I literally can'teven control this.
Or the grief was bigger than meand as a result so, for example
, I've really struggled withclutter, clutter and messiness.
(25:03):
That's been like a big, big,big struggle, slash battle.
I think a lot of it is becauseI've had years of dealing with
some sort of clinical depressionand then, you know, adding on
what I was surviving, havingpeople be like, well, you know,
you just got to get it cleanedup, you just got to clean up.
And then you're going to feelbetter.
You got to clean up.
Yes, thank you.
(25:27):
I know I'm trying and failingfor 50,000 reasons and it really
didn't matter how many peoplesaid to me like, well, you
should clean up.
It was never going to happenuntil I myself got to the point
where I recognize this isharming me and I can no longer
(25:49):
mitigate this level of harm.
My journey was my journey andI've come a long, long, long way
.
But one thing I want to makesure that you know, as a woman,
and as a woman who has friendswho are going through these
things, try really, really hardnot to judge anyone based on
their journey, based on wherethey're at in their healing
journey.
Just remember y'all, yourhealing journey is unique and
(26:12):
different and beautiful.
Don't let pop psychologyoversimplify anything for you.
Don't let pop psychology derailyour progress and don't let
anyone who is a conduit of poppsychology try to convince you
to oversimplify your journey orto suppress your emotions or
anything like that.
I'm a really need y'all totrust your you, trust yourself,
(26:33):
trust your gut, trust your innerwisdom.
Please seek support when youneed it and, biggest of all,
don't judge yourself.
When I stopped judging myself,even though other people were
judging me, I knew other peoplewere judging me for still being
very trauma, bonded to myhusband and then my ex-husband.
I knew they were.
I could feel it in every wayEnergetically, I could feel
people's judgment and the shamethat people were trying to put
(26:57):
on me for the ways that I wasstill trying to heal Y'all.
If I had let that get to me, Iwould have never gotten healed
because, like I said, you can'theal with shame.
So I had to take everyone'sjudgment and their ideas of how
I should be healing and what Ishould be doing differently, and
I had to set it aside and belike what is it that is true for
(27:17):
me right now?
And what I knew is that I wastrying and I was doing the best
I could with what I had always.
I can truly say that of thepast 10 years of my life for
sure.
If you would, don't forget tosubscribe on Apple Podcasts,
spotify and anywhere that youlisten to or watch podcasts on
YouTube, please, please, go toApple Podcasts and leave me a
(27:38):
rating review so I can get thisshow going and on the map.
Follow me on the socials.
You can find me on Instagram,at Grace underscore, sandra
underscore, and on TikTok,because I think it's back for
good now TikTok is out heretrying to survive Same name as
my podcast and finally, join mynewsletter list where I share a
little short, brief weekly tips,tricks and hacks, books I'm
(27:58):
reading and products I'm lovingas an aging, healing, surviving
and thriving woman over 40.
Thank you again for joining metoday.
Y'all, I really, reallyappreciate it.
Please remember that you arestrong and you are resilient and
you are brave and if you are onthis healing journey, you are
absolutely capable of creating alife that you deserve, and I
believe in you.
If you have any experienceswith pop psychology or any
(28:20):
stories with this that you wantto send to me, please send it to
me at out here trying tosurvive, at gmailcom, and I
would love to feature it on thenext episode.
I hope y'all have a wonderfulweek and I'll see you next
Monday.
Bye, thank you.
Have y'all ever scrolled through Instagram and
been like, why is everyone atherapist?
Like why, you know there's awhole lot of manifestation is
popular.
Trust me, I believe inmanifestation, but there's a
whole lot of misinformation,especially on IG, and I love a
(00:21):
good affirmation as much as thenext.
I practice affirmations, Ipractice subliminals, I leave
myself voice notes, I do allkinds of ish to change my
mindset.
However, I think we need torealize that pop psychology
isn't really cutting it, andtoday I want to separate the
difference between poppsychology and actual psychology
, because what we're not goingto do is just let this pop
(00:42):
psychology run our life and notdo anything that leads us to
actual healing.
Pop psychology gives us allthat like, just, oh, love
yourself, okay.
What the hell does that looklike?
Speak your truth, okay.
What the hell does that looklike?
Though, and also, a lot of us,like myself, are multiple trauma
survivors.
We have very deep rooted traumalike how the hell do you get to
the bottom of that?
(01:02):
And you're not just getting tothe bottom of it with Instagram
memes.
So, on this episode, we'regoing to go beyond the surface
level and explore the actual,real psychology and things that
have led to healing, and my ownas well.
Hey, I'm Grace Sandra and thisis the Out here Trying to
Survive podcast.
No-transcript stood out to mebecause if you follow me on IG,
(01:32):
you know I share a lot of memes.
I try not to share ones thatare obviously harmful in any way
or that promote some sort ofweird pop psychology.
I don't share like feel goodstuff, like Jesus loves you,
even though I do actuallybelieve Jesus loves us.
Speak your truth, even though Ido actually believe we should
speak our truth.
I try to share ones fromcreators that go like a little
bit deeper, that are reallygetting to the bottom of what it
(01:56):
means to like use these memesand use these ideas and things
that are so carefully curated onan IG feed to actually lead
towards some healing.
But we can never deny that,like real psychology that people
have went to school for andstudied and got masters of
social work and became licensedclinical therapists etc.
Is going to always have moreinformation and knowledge than
(02:17):
what we can get off of IG.
This podcast is a hope orientedstorytelling space.
A warm hug of solidarity fromme to you as we go on this
journey of surviving andthriving.
Welcome.
First, let me tell y'all a story.
So back when I was beingnarcissistically abused, I
(02:39):
developed something called atrauma bond.
A trauma bond unlike poppsychology says that trauma bond
is when two people are justbonding over trauma.
That is absolutely not what atrauma bond is.
People bonding over trauma isliterally just that they're just
bonding over trauma.
A trauma bond is a very deepattachment to an abuser or to
(03:00):
abusive behavior and it developsas a result of someone abusing
you or severely mistreating you.
It's an attachment, it's anaddiction.
A it develops as a result ofsomeone abusing you or severely
mistreating you.
It's an attachment, it's anaddiction.
A trauma bond is a very complexpsychological phenomena that
happens in the midst of very,very, very dehumanizing behavior
and it only occurs when thereis an imbalance of power and
(03:20):
when there is a cycle of abuseand then affection abuse and
then affection.
So you and your affection abuseand then affection.
So you and your girl gettingtogether and talking about how
your husband's hurt you is nottrauma bonding, that's just you
bonding.
Just call it what it is ahealthy bonding.
A trauma bond is actually apattern that an abusive person
sets up and when I was married Iwas so deeply trauma bonded.
(03:42):
The trauma, the trauma bondforms deeper when the, when the
abuse is very severe and thenthe, the affection that turns on
afterwards is also veryoverwhelming.
You're basically sending some.
It's a very brutal, brutal,brutal form of dehumanization
that I I had never felt or dealtwith before.
It was crazy, it was thecraziest shit I ever felt.
(04:05):
Because the thing is, and whensomeone treats you really bad,
like let's someone let's saysomeone just, for example comes
and pew pews you in your legtwice, and then you're like that
was terrible.
Why would you pew pew me in myleg?
Like, why would you do that?
You're very confused, first ofall, if they've never pew pewed
you before, like, would you dothat?
You're very confused, first ofall, if they've never pew pewed
(04:25):
you before, like what the hell?
But then the next day they'relike you know what?
I'm so sorry.
I really love you.
I never meant to pew pew.
You're in your leg, a traumabond and this is what I had.
You're so desperate for theaffection and the love and the,
the making up for it that you'relike oh my god, thank you so
much for apologizing, because itwas probably my fault that you
(04:48):
pew-pewed me in the leg.
It's probably all of me.
It's not anything you did, it'sme and it's a very sick cycle.
I really can't explain.
It's very difficult for me, as asurvivor of this, to explain
how or why, because most people,if they're like if your husband
is pew-pewing you in the leg,then just leave, and it's not
that simple.
I wish I could say that it was.
(05:10):
That situation never happenedto me before.
By the way, I was just giving arandom example.
But my point is is if you aretrauma bonded, someone is
abusing you and then they'reshowing enough remorse, enough
affection and enough love and itcould be crumbs at this point
that you're so accepting of it,you're actually thankful for it
and you're awaiting the nextabusive trigger because it
(05:33):
actually triggers something inyour body.
So you become literallyphysically peptide, addicted to
these vicious cycles and to theabuser and to the abuse itself.
It was the most psychologicallydamaging, horrific thing I've
ever been through ever.
The intermittent nature of abusecycles of very severe abuse,
(05:54):
then affection, then abuse, thenaffection, then abuse, then
affection makes the victimbecome incredibly, first of all
dependent on the abuser, veryconfused to the point of
cognitive dissonance, which isalso psychologically recognized
as a condition that you can havewhen you're experiencing these
(06:14):
abuse cycles.
It also can leave you veryhopeful that the abuser will
change if you change.
It creates a deeper emotionalattachment and it makes it very,
very, very difficult to leave.
This is often seen very acutelyin hostage situations or in
cult situations.
These people have developed avery severe trauma bond.
Something that's reallyconfusing about trauma bonds is
(06:36):
the longer they get stretchedout, the deeper the wound.
So I'll give an example.
Give an example.
In 2017, I believe in, likeJanuary February of 2017, one of
the most abusive episodes my exhad ever had happened on a car
trip back home from Chicago.
We were driving back home fromChicago and the abuse was so
horrific it's still, to this day, one of the most traumatizing
(07:00):
like nights of my life.
It was about two and a halfhours nonstop, at which point we
were driving on I-94.
It was January February, so itwas very icy roads, it was very
cold, it was dark and it wasprobably about 20 degrees, and I
actually considered jumping outof the car just to get away
from him.
At that point, we had an eightmonth old baby I think she was
(07:22):
eight months old and she wassleeping in the backseat and I
just kept thinking about how, ifI jump out of the car right now
, well, first of all I'm goingto die because we're going 65,
70 miles an hour, that I wouldbe, you know, run over by the
car behind us because it was afull expressway and I just kept
thinking my daughter would wakeup and I wouldn't be there to
nurse her and I just didn't wantto let him win like that.
(07:44):
But I wanted to escape theabuse.
So bad, it was just the mostrelentless, horrific abuse,
traumatizing nights I've everbeen through, like I said.
So I didn't jump out of the car.
Obviously I was screaming andcrying and begging him to stop
and he wouldn't.
And when we got home the nextmorning he rolled over and said
(08:08):
you know, I'm so sorry aboutlast night.
I was just, you know, reallystressed because earlier in the
day, before that happened, I hadbeen asking him like maybe we
should take a break we weremarried been asking him like
maybe we should take a break.
We were married.
But I was like maybe we shouldjust take like a three, four
week break, maybe we should getseparated because I'm at a limit
with what I can handle withyour abusive behaviors.
So I was calling him out.
If you know, you know whenyou're leaving an abuser the
(08:31):
most dangerous time is whenyou're trying to leave, and
literally that's what happened.
I tried to leave earlier thatday and on the way home I was
punished very severely.
So anyway, in the morning hesaid, like I'm so sorry and it
just touched my, touched mylittle heart so much and I
(08:51):
rolled over and, you know,hugged him and kissed him and I
was like it's okay, you know,that's all I wanted was for you
to say you're sorry and that youlove me.
You know, looking back, it wasjust a perfect example of a
woman who was very, very deeplytrauma bonded.
That was 2017.
I didn't.
He didn't end up moving outuntil the fall of 2019.
(09:11):
So if you can imagine, you know, two, three, four years of
living like that, it's verydeeply ingrained in your body.
So please hear me when I tellyou if someone tells you they're
trauma bonded to someonebecause they've read something
on Instagram, they're probablynot.
They probably have no idea whatit is to be addicted to someone
into abuse cycles.
(09:32):
Like someone who's actuallygone through that shit.
I was doing narcissistic abuseand verbal abuse coaching a few
years ago and I've only ever metand I was talking to hundreds
of women on TikTok and meetingwomen primarily on TikTok,
setting up coaching sessions andI've only ever met one person
who was more trauma bonded thanI was Only one One out of
(09:56):
hundreds of women that I talkedto I was.
I am the picture of traumabonding Like if you look up
trauma bonding the dictionary,there's my dumb ass, completely
trauma bonded.
It took me a really long time tostop letting him manipulating
me, to stop sleeping with him,to stop begging him to love me,
to stop begging him for kissesand hugs.
(10:17):
And even after we wereseparated, even after we were
divorced it was a full year ortwo, I think after we were
divorced was like the last timewe slept together Like I was
still trauma bonded.
And let me tell y'all this wasnot me not trying.
This was me trying.
This was not me not trying.
This was me in therapy.
This was me doing EMDR twice aweek for like 12 weeks at one
(10:42):
point.
This was me going to therapyonce a week, sometimes twice a
week, when things were the worst.
This was me trying to pursuemeditation.
This was me trying to change mymindset.
This was me reading books abouttrauma bonding, reading books
about escaping from the grasp ofa psychological manipulator.
This was me doing shit topursue healing and hope and my
(11:02):
ass was still so fucking traumabonded it's literally like
beyond explanation and I getpeople were mad at me.
I started just not tellingpeople stuff because I could not
explain the very deep level ofattachment and I actually did
some things that were likepsychological exercises to try
to unearth it.
I would picture an actual likecord like a very thick, very
(11:27):
strong cord.
Like a cord like this thick onYouTube I'm probably if you're
not watching on YouTube, youcould see it like like the size
of a coffee mug or something.
Youtube you could see it likelike the size of a coffee mug or
something.
So a very thick cord and Ipictured it wrapped around us
both and I would picture likesomething coming in like a
chainsaw and just cutting it.
I still believe to this dayit's January 20, 2025.
(11:51):
I still believe to this day.
If I were to put a percentageon it, I'm probably like 1%
trauma bonded to him.
Still, there is just somethingthat I haven't been able to
fully, fully heal from.
I hope that one day I can getdown to zero, but there is a
little, teeny tiny.
It might even be less than 1%,because it doesn't affect my
behavior, but the desiresometimes is still there and
(12:13):
that's what's really weird.
And now, now I'm healed enoughto be able to say like, oh well,
no, obviously I wouldn't dothat or obviously I wouldn't
ever want him again or anythinglike that.
Like I can reason with myselfnow, but there was a time where
I couldn't.
I couldn't at all.
It just the desire toexperience those patterns with
him, or to experience the kindof abuse that he was giving me,
(12:35):
or to experience the affectionor the vicious cycle was so
strong.
So now ask yourself, when yousee little memes on Instagram
about trauma bonds, were youtrauma bonded or were you just
sad?
This is a larger issue ingeneral of people on Instagram
and TikTok and other placesusing themes that, like
survivors of real, like complexpsychological phenomena are just
(13:00):
casually throwing around, likenarcissism and narcissistic
abuse.
There is a whole community onTikTok that I gained as a result
of talking about narcissisticabuse and realizing there are
survivors out here of a verydeep, complex type of abuse, a
very specific type of abuse.
That is really hard to explainif you've never been a part of
it.
And so then when I see peopleon Instagram being like, yeah,
(13:24):
you know, he cheated on me, thatfucking narcissist and it's
like, yes, people withnarcissistic personality
disorder typically do cheat, butnot all cheaters have
narcissistic personalitydisorder and not all cheaters
are narcissists.
Cheaters are just cheaters, andthat's not a great thing.
But the mislabeling of thesevery complicated phenomena is
(13:45):
really fucking annoying and itwaters down people who've
experienced something reallydeep and complex and are trying
to find answers.
So anyway, child, this is justa friendly reminder that real
psychology is grounded inresearch, rigorous studies and
evidence-based practices.
Real psychology acknowledgesthe complexity of human behavior
(14:05):
and mental health and it alsorealizes that there is no one
size fits all solution.
And that's not what you're goingto get from pop psychology on
Instagram and I'm not sayingthat all pop psychology is bad.
Like I said before, I've sharedit.
But this is my warning to youplease be discerning.
Please be discerning before youjust take a meme and run with
it.
And, like I said, I share a lotof memes on my Instagram
(14:27):
stories and I am discerningbefore I share and if it's
something that needs a littlebit of clarification, I'll add a
little text like hey, you knowwhat's the.
I'll just say something toaddress what it's saying.
If I feel like it needs alittle bit more complexity, I'll
just add my little two cents.
Here's three questions you canask yourself if you find
yourself leaning towardssomething that you feel like is
true, but just kind of givingyou a little bit of ick or you
(14:49):
don't know for sure.
One is is this evidencesupported by research?
Are there any links?
Are there any sources?
Like who's saying it?
Two, does it resonate with mylived experience?
This is literally exactly whatI was dealing with with being
trauma bonded and seeing peopletalk about trauma bonds like
it's this cute little thing.
And then, finally and mostimportantly, is this piece of
(15:12):
advice helping me to learn andgrow or is it just pissing me
off?
And if you find an account orwhatever on Instagram, that's
just like what the hell are theytalking about?
Just unfollow y'all, justunfollow.
The biggest reason that I reallyam passionate about this is
because pop psychology leads tomisdiagnoses.
It also leads to ineffectivecoping mechanisms, like there
(15:33):
was one time that I was tryingto tell someone like I'm trauma
bonded and she said somethinglike Grace, that's just an
excuse.
It's just an excuse.
I was absolutely positive thatthat was not just an excuse.
I was literally trying to helpthem understand what I'm going
through.
This is what I'm currentlystruggling with.
The thing is, if you're dealingwith someone in a cut and dry
(15:53):
hostage situation who hasStockholm syndrome or a cut and
dry cult situation, let's saythat person is evolved enough to
be able to say, like I haveStockholm syndrome, I legit have
Stockholm syndrome.
What should be said is it'samazing that you know what you
have and what you're dealingwith.
Let's help you figure out howto get through it.
But immediately for someone tosay to me like Grace, that's
(16:16):
just an excuse.
Obviously it made me feel shamefor something I had developed,
not as a result of my own doingsomeone else's, and it didn't
help me heal, period.
It also leads to people feelinglike they're failing at healing
and like failing atmanifestation if it doesn't look
like how an Instagram meme saysit should be.
(16:37):
You know what I'm saying?
Like we should never feel likewe're failing at life because of
something we read on anInstagram meme.
Like no y'all, no, just no.
Pop psychology on Instagram,especially because that's the
main culprit does not and willnever acknowledge the
complexities of each person'sindividual issue and problem.
(16:58):
One thing I hate motherfuckinghate is how on Instagram and
Facebook, especially in thecomments, people apply like real
silly shit to everyone.
Like I'll try to give anexample Like someone will say
something like see, that's whyblack men don't celebrate single
black mothers or that's whyblack women don't celebrate
(17:21):
black men.
I'm just trying to give you anexample, because those are such
like cutthroat issues that arealways brought up and these
broad, sweeping, generalizedlike as if all black men or all
black women are a monolith, andit's like what, what are we even
talking about here?
What are you doing?
What are you saying?
Like, please, shut the entirefuck up, please.
But it also keeps people fromactually seeking help and real
(17:45):
guidance from people who haveactual degrees and experience
and create can create a complexplan for you to move forward and
address the issues going on inyour life.
Qualified mental healthprofessionals are a gift.
They are a gift, especiallygood ones.
Not all of them are good.
Some of them suck and they'renot perfect people, but they are
a gift.
They are a gift, especiallygood ones.
Not all of them are good, someof them suck and they're not
perfect people, but they are agift and hopefully you will use
(18:06):
them and please know that it isnever, never a mistake to ask
for help, never.
I know the strong black womanphenomenon is really a thing,
but we got to shut that down.
Another issue is this good vibes, only shit.
Now, here's the thing.
Here's the thing.
I'm all about trying to havegood vibes.
I'm all about trying to havepositive vibes.
(18:27):
I literally live that way.
I try to keep my vibrationstrong.
It's a real thing.
If you don't believe it, readliterally anything from Dr Joe
Dispenza and you'll understandlike we literally do emit
vibrations as human beings andit literally does affect things
around us.
We literally can tell frombeing around someone the kind of
vibration that they areemanating.
That is why sometimes, whenyou're around someone that you
(18:49):
don't feel good about, you havelike a feeling in your gut that
something's not right is becauseof the vibration that they are
literally emitting that wecannot see.
This is a real thing.
It's as real as gravity that wealso cannot see.
Okay, however, when someoneposts good vibes only, a lot of
times that can feel more likejust quieting and silencing
(19:11):
anyone who feels anything otherthan good, and it discourage
people.
It can discourage us from likeprocessing our very real
emotions, which are needed tofeel good.
The only reason why I feel goodtoday is because I sat with
negative emotions yesterday.
Because I yesterday, like Imean in years past because I've
been sitting with negativeemotions and letting myself feel
(19:32):
what I feel and letting myselfcry about it and moan about it
and rage about it and feel angerabout it, and I didn't good
vibes myself every day.
So, yeah, I feel good vibestoday, but that's because I let
myself feel some bad vibesbefore.
You know what I'm saying.
If you don't let yourself feelwhat you're feeling, because you
read good vibes only onInstagram, it's going to lead to
suppressed emotions, suppressedtears, maybe to the point that
(19:55):
you won't even be able to cryanymore At some point.
It's going to lead toinauthenticity, which is also a
vibe that can be put out, thatpeople will read and feel from
you, which is not welcoming, andit can also lead to you feeling
shame, which is so unnecessary,and we know from Mama, dr Brene
Brown, that shame has no placein healing.
You cannot heal with shame.
Shame has to go away, andanyone that gives you shame is
(20:18):
not leading towards your healingperiod.
It's really important, y'all,to acknowledge and validate all
of the feelings that you have.
I cannot stress that enough.
This is not just my opinion.
There's like 10.
You can grab any randomself-help book off the shelf and
they will tell you that youhave to feel all of your
feelings.
The only way past it is througha bitch.
An Instagram meme that saysgood vibes only isn't going to
(20:39):
encourage you to bust out yourjournal.
You know, to practicemindfulness and to go to therapy
to deal with your verydifficult feelings, but I'm
gonna tell you to do that.
And then the final issue that Ihave with all of this is that it
really does promote a one sizefits all way of healing, and the
thing is that's not true, y'all.
I have enough girlfriends in mylife.
I've been to enough therapists.
(21:01):
One of my very best friends inthe world is a licensed
psychotherapist, and what I knowfor sure, for damn sure is that
everyone's healing journey isreally different and it takes
time and effort very differently.
Some people are geneticallypredisposed to different coping
mechanisms, for like, forexample, alcohol.
That's been pretty well studiedand proven.
(21:23):
Some people are literally bornwith the genetic gene that has
that are predisposed to wantingto cope with alcohol right.
That's going to be a harderjourney than someone else Like.
For example, I've talked veryopenly about how my journey with
being assaulted as a kid for adecade from my father father
sexually has led to me copingwith sex and sexuality.
(21:46):
That's very different thansomeone else and their journey
with you know whatever they wentthrough in their childhood and
the way that they cope now.
There is no one-size-fits-allway of healing and I'm here to
tell you you have to find yourown journey and please, please,
please, shut out any voices,especially random Instagram meme
(22:07):
voices, where you find yourselfcomparing your healing journey
to someone else as opposed toreally enjoying your journey and
how it looks for you, becausereally and I hope you know this
true healing really does comefrom within.
It really is an inside job,building your self-esteem back
up after trauma and abuse andall sorts of divorce, whatever.
All sorts of things really doescome from you.
You know even that sounds alittle buzzword-ish, but it's
(22:28):
true.
Like self-love is literally themost important love.
No one else has to live withyou for all of your life but you
.
Something that's really beenjust so harmful for me in my
journey towards healing ispeople expecting me to do it
their way or on their timeline.
That has hurt me so much, inpart in part because ever since
(22:49):
I got into an abusive marriage,once I realized it took me a
while even to realize I wasbeing abused.
I just knew something wasreally wrong Once I realized I
was being abused and I went toget help specifically for that.
I literally told them Once Irealized I was being abused and
I went to get help specificallyfor that.
I, you know, literally toldthem.
Once I realized I was beingabused, I went to a therapist
specifically to talk to herabout the fact that I believed I
was in an abusive marriage.
After three or four months shediagnosed me with complex PTSD,
(23:13):
which I had never even heard ofcomplex PTSD before that.
But it was very obvious that Ihad PTSD.
The way that it was showing wasbecoming almost literally
intolerable for my ex-husband,for my husband at the time.
I think I probably already hadcomplex PTSD from my childhood,
but I had been able to handle it, but there was something about
(23:33):
being in that marriage that justpushed me over the top.
Anyway, my point is somethingthat really hurt me is once I
realized I was being abused.
I was trying so hard to get outof it and I was trying so hard
to survive it and so hard tosurvive myself.
I very rarely gave up.
I very rarely gave up.
If you've ever been aroundsomeone who has in an abusive
(23:54):
relationship, you've seenthere's a few versions,
particularly with women.
There's women who just give upand surrender to it and they're
like this is just all I'm evergoing to have in life.
There's women who fight it andfight really, really hard to
survive it.
And there's women who aredetermined, no matter what, I'm
going to get out of this.
I was pretty much clearly,clearly always in the determined
(24:18):
category.
I was determined to fight it.
I was determined to stand upfor myself.
I was determined to get out ofit.
I was determined to stand upfor myself.
I was determined to get out ofit.
I was determined to livedifferently.
And what hurt me so much waswhen people tried to, and what
hurt me so much was when peopletried to move me along on my
healing journey in a way thatfelt good for them, in a way
that was comfortable for them.
You know, I had people tellingme like I'm just so
(24:40):
uncomfortable with you doingthis or you doing that, and I'm
like bitch, I'm trying tosurvive.
Some of these things I feellike I can't even control.
And I'm just trying to behonest with you, that's just
where I'm at.
It wasn't like I'm giving up,it was just like this is just
where I'm at.
I feel like I literally can'teven control this.
Or the grief was bigger than meand as a result so, for example
, I've really struggled withclutter, clutter and messiness.
(25:03):
That's been like a big, big,big struggle, slash battle.
I think a lot of it is becauseI've had years of dealing with
some sort of clinical depressionand then, you know, adding on
what I was surviving, havingpeople be like, well, you know,
you just got to get it cleanedup, you just got to clean up.
And then you're going to feelbetter.
You got to clean up.
Yes, thank you.
(25:27):
I know I'm trying and failingfor 50,000 reasons and it really
didn't matter how many peoplesaid to me like, well, you
should clean up.
It was never going to happenuntil I myself got to the point
where I recognize this isharming me and I can no longer
(25:49):
mitigate this level of harm.
My journey was my journey andI've come a long, long, long way
.
But one thing I want to makesure that you know, as a woman,
and as a woman who has friendswho are going through these
things, try really, really hardnot to judge anyone based on
their journey, based on wherethey're at in their healing
journey.
Just remember y'all, yourhealing journey is unique and
(26:12):
different and beautiful.
Don't let pop psychologyoversimplify anything for you.
Don't let pop psychology derailyour progress and don't let
anyone who is a conduit of poppsychology try to convince you
to oversimplify your journey orto suppress your emotions or
anything like that.
I'm a really need y'all totrust your you, trust yourself,
(26:33):
trust your gut, trust your innerwisdom.
Please seek support when youneed it and, biggest of all,
don't judge yourself.
When I stopped judging myself,even though other people were
judging me, I knew other peoplewere judging me for still being
very trauma, bonded to myhusband and then my ex-husband.
I knew they were.
I could feel it in every wayEnergetically, I could feel
people's judgment and the shamethat people were trying to put
(26:57):
on me for the ways that I wasstill trying to heal Y'all.
If I had let that get to me, Iwould have never gotten healed
because, like I said, you can'theal with shame.
So I had to take everyone'sjudgment and their ideas of how
I should be healing and what Ishould be doing differently, and
I had to set it aside and belike what is it that is true for
(27:17):
me right now?
And what I knew is that I wastrying and I was doing the best
I could with what I had always.
I can truly say that of thepast 10 years of my life for
sure.
If you would, don't forget tosubscribe on Apple Podcasts,
spotify and anywhere that youlisten to or watch podcasts on
YouTube, please, please, go toApple Podcasts and leave me a
(27:38):
rating review so I can get thisshow going and on the map.
Follow me on the socials.
You can find me on Instagram,at Grace underscore, sandra
underscore, and on TikTok,because I think it's back for
good now TikTok is out heretrying to survive Same name as
my podcast and finally, join mynewsletter list where I share a
little short, brief weekly tips,tricks and hacks, books I'm
(27:58):
reading and products I'm lovingas an aging, healing, surviving
and thriving woman over 40.
Thank you again for joining metoday.
Y'all, I really, reallyappreciate it.
Please remember that you arestrong and you are resilient and
you are brave and if you are onthis healing journey, you are
absolutely capable of creating alife that you deserve, and I
believe in you.
If you have any experienceswith pop psychology or any
(28:20):
stories with this that you wantto send to me, please send it to
me at out here trying tosurvive, at gmailcom, and I
would love to feature it on thenext episode.
I hope y'all have a wonderfulweek and I'll see you next
Monday.
Bye, thank you.
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