Ep 28: An Unexpected Alliance: From Dating The Same Man To Girlfrans?!

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
So second profile picture was a picture of him and
Lily on a vacation that theyhad taken a couple months
earlier and you know I could seethe date too.
So I'm like, oh, there was onetime he came home and I had on
like a long curly purple wig andmy Detroit because I'm from
Detroit so like a Detroit Lionshat or whatever.
And he came in and he looked atme and he was like you did that
on purpose.

(00:20):
And I was like what?
And he was like like you'retrying to look like Lily?
And I was like I'm not, babe, Iswear I'm not trying to look
like Lily.
Oh, my god, how awful onValentine's Day.

Speaker 2 (00:34):
um, I see all his paintings and I notice a
painting of you and he told methat he was working on a
painting of me.
And again, I knew that therewas a painting, but I at at
first, my first reaction waslike this is weird.

Speaker 1 (00:47):
Bitch, get out my, get it, get out my deals and
deal with your husband.

Speaker 2 (00:52):
That's what he said to me, like basically the reason
you need people to buy in andwomen are not going to buy into
this work unless you know youtie it to happily ever after and
having a partner.
You know they're not just goingto want to do this work for
themselves and I just thoughtthat was such a good afternoon

(01:16):
and welcome to the out heretrying to survive podcast
episode 28.

Speaker 1 (01:20):
So today I'm doing something a little bit different
.
This is my first ever interview.
I'm a little bit nervous, butwe gonna get through it.
And I'm interviewing a womanwho my ex-husband used to date.
It became this real big, supermessy situation which ended in
Lily and I becoming actuallyreally good friends good friends

(01:45):
.
So I want to share thisinterview with you.
Oh, girl, we had a time.
We talked about a lot of stuff,so buckle up.
We shared the whole in-depthdetail of how it got super messy
with my ex.
So, yeah, let me introduce youto Lily Shepard.
Lily is a somatic coach, she'sa dancer, she's an artist, she's
a writer, she's an author andshe's the creator of the Body
Intelligence Collective, whichis a movement for women to
explore their body and theirsensuality and all sorts of

(02:07):
things.
And she's the author of a bookcalled Pleasure Principles for
Driven Women and she speaks alot to career driven women who
are really interested in healingfully and centering yourself
fully.
She's an amazing writer, anamazing person all around, and
I'm so glad we met.
Our paths would not havecollided if it weren't for my
tribal next husband, so I hopeyou will stay around and listen

(02:29):
to this amazing interviewwithout further ado.
So, basically, what happened wasmet my ex-husband December 14th
2014.
So almost 10, 10 years ago,long time ago, and we were
together.
He was love bombing.
We were together, we were acouple before Christmas.
So we became Facebook friends.
I realized, you know, I was.
You know, when you become newboyfriend, I'm like, okay, let

(02:50):
me look through all his Facebookstuff.
So second profile picture was apicture of him and Lily on a
vacation that they had taken acouple months earlier.
And, you know, I could see thedate too.

Speaker 2 (02:59):
So I'm like, oh, and that's crazy and let me stop you
there because that's crazy thatwas not even a vacation.
He just that's where I lived,like I lived in Vegas and he
came to Vegas.
So yeah, and it's crazy thatthat was a profile picture,
because I felt a way about I'llget to that point when we come

(03:19):
to it, but I felt a way abouteven being like on his page and
being tagged in photos and stuff.
But it wasn't a vacation, itwas just I lived in Vegas and he
had come to see me.

Speaker 1 (03:29):
Right.
So but for me I'm like, well,this is significant, especially
since in those two weeks we wentfrom just meeting to hot and
heavy in two weeks.
So I'm like this is significant.
Why didn't you tell me aboutthis?
So he was just like, oh,because she's just a vampire.
So he kind of wrote it off asit was just this little thing
and I realized she was such aterrible woman and she was such
a liar and all she wanted washer ex-boyfriend and she was

(03:50):
just using me, and so we didn'ttalk about it.
Yet I kind of knew and, like Isaid before, I had a, I had kind
of a bad feeling, but I wasalso in the beginning and I
wanted to believe him.
Ok, I wanted to believe him.
Okay, I wanted to.
And I regret so much.
Let me just say that up front.
I regret so much of who I wasand what I did during that time.

(04:12):
But, cause, if I had been anylittle bit of a bit more
insightful, I would have pressedit, but I left it alone.
So what happened, where I kindof put it out of my mind?
Um, I didn't like that.
He still had your, his picture,pictures of y'all when he
visited you on his wall rememberhow facebook was like a wall at
that point and you could go.
So I said something to him,maybe like a month later, like
you know, if you don't like herso much, like, why do you still
have these pictures up?

(04:33):
And he's like oh, I'm sorry,babe, I'm sorry, I'll take them
down.
So I'm not sure if he I don'tremember whether he did or not
but when things got serious forme was on valentine's day, I
went out to chicago where he wasliving at, and I saw where he
was staying, in the basement,his parents and he had all his
paintings.
So he's a painter.

Speaker 2 (04:50):
he paints these big, giant, life-size like six by
nine pictures, and so I saw waitand I'm gonna stop you there
too, because, wait, staying inthe basement with his parents,
that's not what I heard.

Speaker 1 (05:04):
But now I'll tell you the way that I overlooked that
was because his dad had cancerand he wanted to be closer to
him while he was.
You know, his dad is stillalive, actually, he still has
has cancer.
Unfortunately he's not in agreat place, but, um, but you
know, I kind of saw it as like,okay, you know, you're getting
back on your feet because hecame from St Louis.
I will also say that part ofthe lie of that time was he was

(05:26):
married before and so he waslike, you know, I, I, you know,
I lost everything and I leftbecause I moved out to where she
was and then I had to go backto him, to my mom's, and then my
dad was dying.
So I, you know, and I just letall of it make sense, even
though when I look back, oh, Iknow what that's like back, oh,

(05:48):
I know what that's like onvalentine's day, um, I see all
his paintings and I notice apainting of you.
Now let me say this thepainting of you, not the one you
saw.
This is what you saw was theend after he destroyed it.
But what I saw was a prettypainting of you and I recognize
it because you had like theshort, tapered, no hair, bald
style and um, and I could tellyour face, you know, like all
your features, and it was Icould tell your face, you know,
like all your features, and itwas a really pretty painting,
just so you know, cause younever saw it when it was, when

(06:09):
it started and it had, and itwas big, okay, it was like six
feet by nine.
It had on your cheek like wordsand stuff that you had said to
him like, um, goodbye for now,and I don't know, just like all
these cute little phrases allover the painting of stuff y'all
had said to each other on thephone or something.
And I was just like is thisLily?

(06:30):
Is this the woman in yourprofile picture from before?
And he was like oh, yeah, yeah,yeah, I'm just, I'm just making
a painting about like all thethings I felt and I'm gonna, I'm
gonna destroy it eventually.
And I was just like but you,when did you have time to paint
this?
Because it was a big paintingand I will say he's a really
good painter, he makes reallywonderful art and he sells it

(06:54):
and he does a good job with it.
So I don't, I don't, I can'tattest to how fast he can paint
stuff, but for how intricate itwas.
It looked like he'd beenworking on it ever since y'all
damn near met.
So I was just like, yeah, Idon't feel great about this.
And I was just like Hmm, and hewas like no, no, it's just, you
know, this is just part of myjourney as an artist, and blah,
blah, blah.
So I was like okay, okay, fine,so I kind of let it go.

(07:17):
And then, like three or fourmonths later, something happened
.
Oh, he gave me his luggage.
Okay, let me not tell too manydetails.
I don't need to tell all ofthat, let me just think of what
the most important stories are,because it just kept coming up.
That's what I want you to know.
Is that this whole thing withyou kept coming up in different
ways?
And I could see that it wasstill in his mind.
You know when somebody is notover something.

(07:37):
And so I had that idea like hewas working on the painting
throughout our engagement andgetting married, and after we
got married and moved in and Icould see him still working on
the painting.
Now I will say he does do thatwith all of his painting.
He continues to just tinker andtinker and tinker and tinker
with them.
So it wasn't any different.
But it was just like, why?

(07:57):
So one day I was just like, canwe please talk about this,
because it's irritatingsomething in my soul that you
keep working on this painting ofa woman you're saying was not
significant, was not good to you, was a terrible person.
He actually gave me yourFacebook profile and he said go
see for yourself then Go lookher up.
You can see for yourself what ahorrible woman she is.
So I was like, okay, fine, Iwill.

(08:19):
And so I started low-keystalking you and what I found
was that you were actuallyamazing and wonderful and like a
really brilliant you knowwriter and the way you
articulate and express yourselfand you're going to crack up at
this.
But when he gave me yourprofile and told me to look you
up, one of the first things Isaw was a live you did on
Facebook and you had.

(08:39):
I remember what you werewearing.
You're wearing like a graysweatshirt and gray sweatpants.
You were sitting on the floorand you were talking about how
just disillusioned you were withthe dating world and like how
men are inconsistent.
Do you remember this one andhow you know?
Kind of you were talking abouthow.

Speaker 2 (08:57):
Did I have like a?
Was my hair long or was it bald, I don't know.

Speaker 1 (09:02):
but keep going, I don't remember what your hair
was, but you were talking abouthow, like you know, you were
just tired of hookup culture andmen who were just wanting to
hook up and you were like youknow, I'm really looking for
something deep and I just feellike men are not there.
And I remember, like literallyLily, having tears in my eyes

(09:24):
Because I was already feelingvery trapped.
I was already feeling verytrauma, bonded, and I remember
feeling, oh my God, this isgetting me slightly emotional.
But I remember feeling likejealous that you got away
because I was already in it.
I was already like I felt verytrapped.
Also, like I don't remember theexact timeline, but like we got

(09:44):
pregnant right away with ourdaughter and so I and I had two
kids from my first marriage andI was like still very vulnerable
and recovering from all that,so I couldn't just leave like,
oh, I'm unhappy, let me just getout of here.
Like I had a new baby and I wascompletely in every way, just
reliant on him financially, butlike emotionally too, it was

(10:05):
really ugly and I think he knewthat.
So he started using thesituation with you because he
knew this was the kind of abuserhe was.
He would use stuff that he knewwas a weakness and taught me
with it.
And so, for example, there wasone time he came home and I had
on like a long curly purple wigand my Detroit because I'm from
Detroit, so like a Detroit Lionshat or whatever, and he came in

(10:29):
and he looked at me and he waslike you did that on purpose?
And I was like what?
And he was like you're tryingto look like Lily?
And I was like I'm not, babe, Iswear, I'm not trying to look
like Lily.

Speaker 2 (10:39):
Oh, my God, how awful .

Speaker 1 (10:41):
Jesus, I don't like when you wear that.
I don't want you to wear thatwig.
I don't want you to try to looklike Lily.
And I was just like I'm not, Iswear.
I mean, I was in that placewhere I was not fighting back in
any way.
I was like I promise you I'mnot.
And he was like.
You know she wears colorfulwigs and and hats and I hate

(11:09):
that.
Look, I points that came to ahead in this situation, which is
why I reached out to you, isthat a year or two into this, he
started messing around withother women and I went into
investigation mode, right, so Istarted.
I got into his email.
This is when it all made sensefor me, lily.
I got into his emails.
I looked through his sentfolder for like the last three
years prior to that and I sawthat he had sent you an email

(11:31):
and in the email he said to youstuff that he had been sent
sending to all these other womenand that he also said to me in
the beginning, in particular,this one line I don't know what
to make of you.
And the thing is, is he like,confessed his love for you and
how much you meant to him andyou never responded and then it

(11:58):
made it like it clicked to me,like, oh, that's why he has it
out for this woman, that's whyhe's telling me all these lies
and she's such a horrible person, and because he, just his
little fragile ego, was hurt,because all the other women that
he has tried to love bomb.
He's been, for the most part,pretty successful, like I don't
know how much you remember him,but he's.
He's very caring, he can bevery charismatic and very like

(12:21):
women.
I mean, what, what his littlecurse that he does?
It worked on me fully and itdidn't work on you and that's
and I realized like, oh, that'swhat it is, that's why he's
saying so, after I kind of knewthat it released the power for
me, that that like kind of who Ithought you were had over me
because, like I had this idea ofwho you were and my, my husband

(12:44):
, is obsessed with this woman.
He's still working on thispainting because all over the
years we were married he wasstill tinkering with it and then
he started eventuallydestroying it.
So it was a pretty picture ofyou and then it went from like
he took out half of the skulland made it a like bloody with
the brain showing, and then hestarted yeah, it's very
grotesque very violent, very,very violent, and a lot of his

(13:07):
paintings do have some violentimagery, but this was this was
the most by far, and it wasbecoming disturbing because he
was still bloodying it Everytime he came back to it, every
time I would see him down.
We got, we got a house and hehad his own little basement
studio and he was down therebloodying it.
And so, when we were gettingdivorced and separating, I

(13:28):
finally reached out to you atthat point, and part of the
reason why is because I wasenduring so much post-separation
abuse.
Our baby was two or younger, Iwas chronically underslept and I
was in such a bad placeemotionally.
And I saw that he was sellingthe painting, the pictures of
you as prince, not only the, theoriginal, for a good chunk of
change, might I, but also Idon't know if he ever sold it,

(13:49):
by the way, but um, but alsoprince and I'm like, and then it
was called like emotionalvampire.
That was the name of the pieceand I was like you know what you
, son of a bitch, because what Irealized, everything that he
ever said to me about you wastrue about him, every single
thing.
But I realized that over thecourse of our marriage, just
being married to someone who isa pathological, you know, I

(14:11):
believe um, oh, I'm gonna ignorethis call I believe.
I believe he has narcissisticpersonality disorder, but that's
very hard to diagnose, so Idon't want to throw that around,
but I'll just say of five yearsof being married to him, it's a
very strong signs that he doesso the kind of damage that he
was doing to me was just crazy.
But I was like I don't want tolet another woman, like if it

(14:34):
were me, I wouldn't wantsomebody to be selling pictures
of my face, whether it's prettyor not pretty, like your image
and your likeness, and and I was, and at that point I was like I
don't care anymore, like I'mdone protecting him, I'm done
with all of that.
And then I started reaching outto us.
So you were in.
So you were like number five orsix of women I started reaching

(14:56):
out to who he had harmed somaliciously that I and this,
even though you didn't knowabout it, was still I felt like
causing harm.
And a couple women had thenreached out to me.
So there was more like fromwhat I understood, I was number
eight in this line of womenwho'd been like oh, wow, okay,
see, and this is news.
I didn't know.
There was a whole line okay,keep going.

Speaker 2 (15:19):
You know, I know, because I was just looking at
our interaction as far as that,I didn't know that there were
like and it was all a verysimilar story.

Speaker 1 (15:28):
I was just the only one who was, and I say this with
all love and kindness to myself, but I'm like, why am I getting
emotional?
But I was the only one who was.
It's okay To fall for it andmarry him and have a child by
him and so.
So, yeah, there was a timewhere I just and I think I even
said that to my message like youknow, you, you, you got away.

(15:52):
You got away and I'm so happyfor you that you did that.
You didn't have to endure whatI did, and I'm so happy for you
that you did that.
You didn't have to endure whatI did.

Speaker 2 (16:03):
Yeah, but please give yourself some grace, you know
honestly, because it wasn'tstupid.
You know you started off bysaying you were in a vulnerable
position and and years ago, youknow, just a few years prior, I
was married to five years for awhole, to a person who was a
whole different person than whohe made himself out to be now,

(16:27):
and he wasn't physically oremotionally abusive, but he was
a liar, he was a manipulator, helied about money, he lied about
I ended up in a very badposition.
I ended up divorced and bankruptand humiliated, and so I'm just
sharing that to say like I getit and it happens, and that was

(16:48):
my prior, so just where we werecoming in in our interactions
with this person was two verydifferent places.

Speaker 1 (16:54):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And I realized, like you know,when I reach out to you and some
of these other women, that itwas the same story, and so I was
just like, well, I can stop it,I can do something right now
and I can expose this, and sothat was kind of my
self-empowerment moment.
So I was like okay.
So then I reached out to youand I was just like, look, he's

(17:14):
selling these prints.
I want you to know.
So yeah, I'll let you go fromthere about like how this hits
you.

Speaker 2 (17:29):
And when you saw this message and yeah, yeah, wow, I
mean I, I remember I was, it wasa Sunday and so I was watching
football and, you know, myparents were over.
It was a family football dayand I just remember opening the
message and being like, and thenbeing like, you know, and
telling my family right and thenbeing like, okay, but I can't
even deal with this right now.
You know what?
And telling my family right andthen being like, okay, but I
can't even deal with this rightnow.
You know what I mean?
Like this is taking me to aplace this was like a long time

(17:51):
ago.
Um, I can't even.
I can't process this right now.
Let's continue to do what wewere doing, and then I'm gonna
sit with this later.
Um, and so many things stuck outto me about the message, right,
and my first thing was my, myguard was immediately up, right,
because I'm like okay, I don'tknow this woman.
Why, after all this time?
Okay, I don't know this woman.

(18:12):
Why, after all this time, isshe contacting me?
Is there something going onbetween you?
Know, am I being somehowbrought into?
I didn't know what, right?
So I I definitely wanted topause and just like, consider,
do you even want to respond?
You know what, right?
So I definitely wanted to pauseand just like, consider, do you
even want to respond?
You know what I mean.
Like, do you even want?
Is there even anything to sayor not?

(18:35):
And it was wild to me, becauseyou know the language that you
use in the DM and you were like,well, you dated him, you know,
such and such time ago.
And in my mind that was not myboyfriend.
We did not date.
It was like we were both inthis group on Facebook.
We interacted.

(18:55):
I was coming out of arelationship, you know, like a
three-year relationship after mydivorce, right?
So I got divorced and then Iwas-year relationship after my
divorce, right?
So I got divorced and then Iwas in a relationship after that
and so we started, you know,communicating in this group.
Then we became, you know,friends on Facebook.

(19:15):
Then, you know, we startedtalking.
He was like, hey, you know, I'dlove to talk on the phone, so
we started chatting, but none ofit was like a lot, right, it
was all very talking phase.
It sounds like a talking phase,yeah, but talking phase.
And then it was like, well, I'dlove to come, you know, come
see you.
And I've never been to Vegas, Ithink he said and I was like,

(19:35):
well, okay, cool, I had a um,it's funny Cause my ex-husband's
cousin was actually having likea going away party or something
like that, and I was like, oh,it'd be cute, you know, he could
be my little date and we'llhang out and and whatever and
and that's what it was.
But during the trip so I'm justgoing to give you my from my

(19:56):
side of things the story.
So he came and like we did funthings.
I remember we went on on thelink Ferris wheel thing and you
know, we hung out and and.
But there was something he wastaking pictures and I remember
he was like posting them andlike tagging me on Facebook.

(20:18):
And that made me uncomfortablebecause I'm like is that with
Lily Shepard, with Lily Shepard,with Lily Shepard, with you
know?
And I was just like this iskind of.
But I stopped, but I was like,and then I tried to make it make
sense, right, cause I was like,oh well, he's just, he's happy
to be with you, you know, isn'tthat what we want.
You know, most times we get madbecause they're not posting us

(20:40):
and not saying anything.
So, okay, so he's excited andhe's sharing, okay, fine, even
though I did not like it.
But you know I did not like it,but I made it make sense.
So you know he stayed, you knowhe didn't see, stayed at a
hotel, um, I stayed with him.
We did have sex and that's whenmy husband was like, oh, you

(21:04):
put that thing on him, that'swhat you get for having sex with
this man and you you shouldhave.
And it was funny.
But I was like, yeah, whatever,like I'm grown and, yes, I had
sex with him.
I feel bad, you know what Imean, whatever.
But after that he started reallytalking about like kid, you

(21:26):
know, like a life, um, and thatwas very off-putting to me
because I I was like this is funand okay, what sex, and yay.
But like he immediately went to.
You know, he started talkingabout North Carolina, like
moving, because I was expressingthat I didn't want to live in

(21:47):
Vegas much longer, I wasdefinitely ready to leave, I
didn't want to raise my daughterthere, all this that and the
third, and he just started liketalking about things that I
thought was just way beyondwhere we were.
You know, I'm like this isactually our first time in each
other's presence, like the firsttime I understand that we have
interacted on Facebook and youknow, we I seem to understand I

(22:11):
liked he was articulate, I likedhis ideas about things, I was
attracted to that.
But I'm like, honestly, I hungout with you for 48 hours Like
why are we talking aboutmarriage and babies?
So I was put off by that also,right and so the thing was.
And then he left and he told methat he was working on a

(22:32):
painting of me and again I knewthat there was a painting that I
at first my first reaction waslike this is weird, you know,
like.
And then I was like well, don'tbe like that.
Wow, this man is artistic aswell.
And he's like so enamored thathe's making you.

(22:53):
You should feel honored, youshould feel great, you should
and all this should.
But it wasn't what I reallyfelt.
I really was like, ooh, okay.
So then he sent an email and hesent the emails and he was like
man professing his love, likeyes, from the mountaintop.

(23:16):
And I don't know, you know,like all of this, and I remember
thinking at that point and wewere talking about maybe him
coming to visit again, and whenI got the email, I was like no,
you know, I was like this is,this is way too much and I need
to figure out a way to not.

(23:36):
I don't want him to come back,you know.
I was like I don't want that.
And so I I said, and I alludedto my ex my ex was out the
picture, but I felt like Ineeded a reason like I didn't
want to.

Speaker 1 (23:51):
He held on to that of you bringing up his ex, your,
your ex.
When you ended it with him,like that was you were just the
most evil woman in the world forthat.
Like how could you, y'all havethis wonderful weekend together
and y'all be so in love, andthen you bring up your ex and
wanting to go back with him hemean, he was butthurt about that
hurt.

Speaker 2 (24:09):
And it was not even true, it was just an excuse to
me.
That felt more.
I felt like I was, I don't know, sparing his feelings, saying
that, than just saying Istraight up, don't want you to
come back, I don't want to moveforward.
I felt like I had to give areason, and so that's why I

(24:29):
brought up my ex.
But honestly, my ex was nowherein the picture.
I just didn't want to moveforward with him.
But I didn't feel comfortablesaying that and I didn't want to
hurt his feelings or for him tobe hurt about it.
But it was just very clear thatno, no, no.
And and his response he blockedme on everything you know, and
I was just like, whoa, that'sdramatic, but it confirmed.

(24:53):
I was like, hmm, it's probablyfor the best, you know.
And that was the end of it and Inever thought about this man
until I got that you know it wasoh, I met this guy.
We talked, you know, maybe for amonth or so.
He came to visit you know, andthen, and that was it, and then
so I get this message, you know,almost 10 years later, you know

(25:15):
that he's so and I felt here'swhat I felt was so um, and maybe
this is like idealistic andnaive, but I was like, oh my God
, there's a person out in theworld that like thinks this
horribly of me, like I just thatdidn't feel good, you know, and
regardless of it was his ownmind and his own things and I
never mistreated him.

(25:36):
The fact that there wassomewhere someone out there
harboring these feelings andsaying you're an energy vampire
and a terrible person, like thatkind of made me feel sick, a
little bit Like I don't likethat.
You know, it's like I try in mylife to be a positive person
and to cultivate really greatrelationships, and so the idea

(25:58):
that someone's out there likeactively hating me felt For all
those years too, it's crazy.
Yeah, for all that time felt bad.
And then when I saw the, thepainting, and I was like and
making money, like no, this is,this is wrong, you know.
But then it was also like, sowhat, are you gonna do nothing?

(26:19):
Yeah, I want this crazy manknowing shit about me.
I don't know if he follows me.
And then I started thinkingdoes he follow me?
Like, has he been watching mymoves all this time, does he?
I got I felt worried andespecially when you relayed you
know how he had been to you andhow abusive that he was I just
was like, well, should I beafraid, you know, with?

(26:41):
My next thought was like, yeah,like do I need to be?
Because people snap all thetime?
And if this is something that'sstill present for him, you know
, then what the hell?
And then I felt really bad foryou, like I felt I felt you were
sincere and that's why Iresponded because, like I said,

(27:05):
in the beginning, I wasn't surelike when was I just getting in
the mix of something and youknow, or whatever?
But then I really went back andI read your message several,
several times and I was like youknow what?
Let me just like feel into thisfor a minute.
I really feel like this womanis sincere and I really don't
feel like she has any badintentions for me.

(27:27):
So let me go ahead and respondto her message.

Speaker 1 (27:31):
I appreciate that you responded, because I did.
I saw that.
You saw it.
You know you can see the sceneand for that 24 hours I was like
, oh, maybe I did a wrong thing.
But you know, I think also whenwomen are being abused and when
you're enduring post-separationabuse, all of that, like I
really feel like for the mostpart, we should have grace for
women, cause you're not like Ican look back and see I wasn't
fully in my right mind in someway.

(27:51):
You know the things would mensay about women when they're
being abused like she's crazy,you know she's, she's lost it
and it's like, yeah, in someways, like you've driven her to
that.
And so I felt like maybe I dida wrong thing.
So I was so thankful that youwere able to see like my
intentions weren't to harm youat all.
You know, yeah.

Speaker 2 (28:09):
And then I started looking at your page and like,
okay, well, who is this person?
And I was like, oh, we actually, like, are aligned in a lot of
ways.

Speaker 1 (28:23):
You know what I mean.
So, yeah, I'm so glad that youresponded it did, and I also
felt like it, like I said, ithelps me to feel like I was
taking my power back a littlebit by, just cause I knew that
he would be mad at me and Ididn't know what would happen to
me as a result of me sharing.
So I didn't tell him right away, but eventually I did tell him
like yeah, I reached out to Lilyand we're friends now, but I
waited till after we weredivorced.

(28:44):
So I didn't tell him and hejust was like but just to let
you know, I don't think he didstalk you that whole time.
He put me on that and I thinkonce he put me on that, it kind
of started that triangulationprocess.
He didn't really need to,because he would bring you up
occasionally, like I said, anduse it to taunt me.
So then I could say like, ohyeah, she moved to Austin.

(29:05):
You know, like I knew thatstuff, which is terrible.
So, yeah, I, I think, I thinkI'm really well, I'm thankful.
So, okay, number one sorry, Ijust had like four thoughts in
my head at one.
Number one, I'm really gratefulthat you validated the journey
for me, you know, validated likehey, I hear you and I don't

(29:28):
remember.
I don't even remember what yousaid.
I wish I could find thosemessages, but like you were so
kind to me in such a dark time,so I just want to thank you for
that Cause it was a really darktime.
So I'm thankful that youresponded with graciousness, not
like bitch, get out my get it,get on my DMs and deal with your
husband, which I think wouldhave been so hard on me too,
like I was just trying to help,you know.
So I'm curious, because I neverasked you this, or I don't know

(29:51):
if we talked about it, but didyou ever like give him a cease
and desist, or say anything tohim about the portraits, or ask
him to take him down?
Or did you ever do anything?

Speaker 2 (29:59):
no, no I said nothing .
I was just like you know what Iknew then that this is someone
I don't want in my life at all.
I know even more now.
Whatever little, whatever he'sgot going on, I don't think is
worth me inviting.
You know, I had reallycultivated a really nice and
peaceful life here in Austin andI was like I just don't want

(30:20):
any parks.
You know, whatever he's doingwith that, I didn't know about
it before.
It wasn't hurting me then asmuch as I feel like it's um,
it's not right, clearly, um, Ididn't.
That feeling wasn't strongenough for me to like take any
action, so I just let it sitwhere it was Okay.
But I did write about it.

(30:41):
I wrote about it, um, and, andit's interesting, and I didn't,
I did.
I wrote an article on Mediumabout it called dodging, dodging
bullets or something to that,something to that effect.
But and I wanted to include apicture of the painting because,
just because it was so weirdand violent.

(31:04):
But then I was like you youknow what, I'm not even giving
him any shine off of that likeyou know why would I?
that's essentially me promotinghis art and I'm not gonna do
that.

Speaker 1 (31:12):
So you can just envision it, sick men out there
will be like, oh, let me getthat, let me get a print of that
, and yeah, it's disgusting theway that.
Yeah, anyway, I, I hear you, um, but yes, I remember that
because you sent me the link andI thought you did such a
beautiful job with it, so, yeah,so the reason why that I wanted
to have you on the podcast isbecause what I found when he

(31:34):
sent me on this witch hunt isreally that you're such a
beautiful dope person and it'sreally sad because, like I think
of myself that too, like I feellike I'm a beautiful dope
person out here in the worldtrying to do beautiful things
and heal women, like we're bothvery passionate about healing
women, healing ourselves andhealing women and I feel like
he's someone who tends to find acertain type, also also

(31:58):
biracial girls.
Like almost all of his lastfive women have all been black
or white.
What is it about the biracialgirls?
I don't know, but but what Ifound in you was just like.
So I was so inspired, like whenI started reading yourself.
I think that made it hurt evenmore, because I'm like tank
she's beautiful and, like youknow in the beginning, like and

(32:20):
so articulate, like aboutwomen's issues in particular.
And yeah, so I just kind ofwant to give you a chance to
share, like your journey,because I thought it was
fascinating, like I saw that youknow you used to do.
Oh, by the way, actually I'lllet you share because I don't
know if I don't know, if I, if I, you know, you'll bring that up
, but he, he, used something inyour past against you.
Um, no, say it.

(32:42):
What I don't want to forget shewas just a stripper, don't
worry about her, she was just oh, oh, okay, yeah, sure, sure,
yeah.
Well, I was a stripper, um,absolutely, and um, so, yeah, we
can start the story there um, Icould say right away, by the
way, that I was like this is nother life at all.

(33:03):
Like she's a dancer, she's agifted like I could tell, like
you're a gifted, accredited,trained, you know, like I could
see all that.
So I'm like, whatever I knewback then and I was, I've never
been a, I've never been astripper, hater, shamer or a
slut shamer, hater.
Like I've always been verywoman positive, body positive,
sex positive.
That he kept using that likethat was something against you

(33:23):
and I'm like no, bro, you canlook at her stuff and see like
she's an accomplished dancer,like she's out here dancing with
Beyonce and shit, like come on.
But yeah, so I would love toyou, yeah, you could just share
your journey of like how youmoved from like all of the like
really cool shit you did tobeing like a coach and how you
empower women now.
So, yeah, I'd love for you toshare.

Speaker 2 (33:44):
Yeah, you know that's interesting.
That's a thing that I had tocome to terms with, will always
be.
You know, the justice stripper.
You know, even it's interesting, right, because even like you
look at women, like in music, ok, like a Cardi B or Eve or
something, even in theirheadlines, right, even in their
headlines, right, for as muchsuccess that they got, people

(34:09):
will still find a way to putformer stripper in the headline
about them or in something aboutthem.
Or, you know, I used to think,if something ever happened to me
remember there was a thing orlike around the 2020 time, if
the police shot me, you knowwhat, what picture, what video
would they use?
And it would definitely be like, oh, former stripper, nothing
else I ever did in life mattered, right.
So I think you know myex-husband, who was, you know,

(34:33):
met me when I was a stripper.
We were married, I was still astripper.
You know it was very muchalmost encouraging of of that um
, profession.
When things went bad, it waslike, oh, you're just a stripper
, I hope our daughter neverturns out like you and all kinds
of nasty things that he wouldsay.
So I said all that to saythat's some bullshit, but men

(34:56):
will definitely use that and Iknow now that even probably 20
years from now, if someone evertakes issue with anything I've
said or done, it'll be like oh,that former stripper, however.
So I started.
You know, like you said, I'm atrained dancer.
I started dancing four years old, went to dance studio, went to

(35:21):
high school for performing arts,was a dance major in college,
have a degree in dance, moved tolas vegas, um, where I started
dancing.
Like the beyonce gig was one ofmy first, like you know, gigs
in vegas.
It was awesome.
I was performing in the casinos, doing like um, just shows.

(35:41):
You know, I was just giggingall over time, go-go dancing.
I was doing this and doing that.
And I started working in thestrip club like alongside that.
Like that's a whole other story.
But I had an experience where Iwas in Vegas by myself and I met
this couple and you know theywere like what do you do?
And I was like I'm a dancer.
And they were like, oh, ofcourse you are, girl, you got a

(36:03):
hot body, you look good.
And I was like no, no, no, I ama dancer, like I am a real
dancer.
And it was so funny, you know.
And they were like well, haveyou ever thought about?
Because, like you could make somuch money and you know, I had
watched shows about Vegas,topless dancers and things and I
grew up very sex positive, likeit was never an issue for me,

(36:25):
but I just didn't think ofmyself like that.
Anyway, we're drinking, drinking, drinking.
They're like well, it'stonight's amateur night across
the street at Club Paradise.
If you go, girl, we're going toyell for you, you're going to
win it's a thousand dollar prize.
I was like, let's go, let's go.
So we went across the streetand I entered this contest and

(36:46):
the house mom there said there'susually oh, it was during the
week maybe four or five girls.
Well, this night there was like12 girls in it and I was like
OK, of course I picked the nightwhere all of these girls are
there.
This one girl's herbachelorette party, so all her
friends were out there.
Long story short, I went upthere and I took my top off and
I danced around and it was a lotof fun and I didn't win first

(37:09):
that the bachelorette won first,but my new friends were
cheering for me.
I won second place.
I won $500.
And I was like no-transcript,like you know what I do.
I do want to work here, youknow, and then that was the

(37:31):
beginning of that journey.
So I was doing, it was justlike I don't know, I thought
nothing of it.
It was fun, you know, until itwasn't, but you know, it was fun
for for quite a few years.
So, anyhow, I did that.
Um, I was in Vegas and and we Imentioned my ex-husband a bit we
had a rough, you know, we had arough divorce.

(37:54):
Um, he was like he had a wholeanother girlfriend and I was the
last person to find out he hadbeen lying about a bunch of
things in our relationship forsome time and I ignored a lot of
red flags along the way.
Plenty, there were a lot oflittle lies that he told from
the very beginning that I kindof just swept under the rug.

(38:15):
There were a lot of occurrencesthat never made sense, that
never had resolution, but that Icouldn't prove anything.
And it all seems so great.
Right, fresh out of college,moved to Vegas, start your
dancing career, meet thishandsome man.
He's got a great career, he'smaking money, you're making
money and and wow, you know,this is a fairytale.

Speaker 1 (38:36):
Um, but during that process of oh, I was going to
ask you a question when did youhave your daughter Like real?

Speaker 2 (38:54):
when you were in Vegas tripping, like, were you
already a mom at that point orwere you not had her yet?
Oh, he cheated before I evengot married too, and I still
married his ass.
Can you believe?
I was engaged.
It was a whole public thing.
I saw the girl.
She pulled up receipts on herphone.
She had her best friend, likeall of this happened and he was

(39:16):
so remorseful.
This and that a lot of thingswere happening in my life at the
time.
My mom was in a very bad caraccident.
She was in a coma for some time.
Like, like I was, I wasmentally not in a very good
place.
I decided to still move forwardwith marrying him.
Oh, he made a mistake.
He's not who he is.
Whatever, we got married.

(39:38):
I was 25 when we got married.
Yeah, we dated for a year and ahalf.
We were engaged for a year anda half and then we got married
and then, uh, my daughter wasborn in 07.
So we got married in 06 and she, we had her in 07.
So it was all very quick and Iwas still.
I took that clearly beingpregnant, and then the you know,

(40:01):
maybe like the first year off,but then I definitely went back
to dancing as his wife and a momand he was definitely okay with
that.

Speaker 1 (40:09):
Okay, and then just yeah.
Yeah, at once celebrated.
It's sad.

Speaker 2 (40:18):
Right, right, right, right, Um.
So during that that, that wholedivorce process, I, that whole
divorce process, I was goingthrough it and I kind of had
this moment in my room.
Just I didn't know what to dobecause I was trying all these
things and nothing was making mefeel better.
I was going to support groups,I was doing affirmations.

(40:40):
I had just started my ownspiritual journey a few years
prior.
I was just in this thing oflike searching like nothing was
was helping.
I started going doing yoga andthen I was in my room and it was
.
I just got this download and itwas like just move.
And I started moving.

(41:02):
But it was so different I meanone because it didn't say just
dance, right, it said just move.
And for me that felt like adifferent directive because I
had been dancing.
You know, I had been dancing asperformance.
You know, for other people Ireally didn't have my own
movement practice for myself andmy well-being.

(41:25):
So I had this like experiencewhere I just put on something on
shuffle on my playlist and Ijust was like a mad woman.
You know, I was like doing allthese if I was rolling on the
floor, I was like it's funny,because now I guess people like
charge big money to do theselike all this, you know big like

(41:47):
new age movement stuff.
But I was doing that and then Iwas twerking and like I was
going through every emotion thatI had, like I was thinking
about my life like fuck thatshit, I'm gonna have a good ass
life.
And I was twerking and then Iwould like roll and crawl and I
was like but I was so hurt and Iwas crying and I was like then
I was doing all this bigdramatic stuff like I'm a star,
no one can stop me.

(42:08):
I mean, like I went throughrecording.
It took all my energy okay yeah, it just completely cut out.

Speaker 1 (42:15):
But I know what you were saying.

Speaker 2 (42:16):
You were just saying okay you started twerking, oh
okay yes, yes, and then and Iand then I was like get into a
ball and cry because I was indespair and then I would do like
big leaps and because I waslike I'm a star and I can.
Nothing can stop me.
This is going to be great, likeI feel.

(42:38):
Like I went through so manydifferent emotions and I was
looking weird and I was likemaking you know, know, I was
just.
It was something so differentfor me because I was trained
everything you know was from aperformance standpoint and my
training and so this was felt soweird to me to move in this way
.
But I felt like things gotdislodged and I was able to like

(43:03):
I found what I was looking forin doing all of the yoga and
saying my affirmations and goingto these groups and stuff.
Like after I did that, I waslike okay, I just I felt at
peace and I was like, okay, nowI can go about planning my life
and how we're going to moveforward.
I can, cause I couldn't.
I had so much emotional stuffgoing on that I couldn't and I

(43:27):
couldn't see the steps ahead ofme.
You know, I couldn't.
And once I got that out of mybody and my body was like, ok,
we're ready, what do we need todo?
We need to follow this, we needto do this, we need to look
into this and to do with dancetraining.
Right, this was just a womangoing through some shit and got

(43:56):
this directive to move.
How can I use the training thatI do have and how can I support
women in this?
Because I can't be the onlyperson that's experienced this,
and this was so helpful to me to, because I knew what I should
be doing, but my body justwouldn't let me move forward

(44:17):
with it.
It had to be processed,released, um, and so, yeah, I
moved to.
I started teaching a classcalled twerk and burn right,
because the twerking part waswas the most fun part of that
experience.
Right when I was just like, andso I started teaching a class in
Las Vegas.
Then I moved to Austin.

(44:38):
I was very excited my husbandmoved first, and my ex-husband,
and because he moved out ofstate, then I was like, okay,
I'm free to go.
And so I moved to Austin and Istarted teaching those classes.
But from there I wanted to geteven deeper.
Like, because women wereconnecting to each other.

(44:59):
We were sharing stories afterjust like kind of as I did in my
room, like I could thinkclearly and I had things were
coming up to the surface afterthe movement, and so we started
adding on, like our after classfor wine and connection so women
could talk and share theirstories, and so it just kept
growing and then I thought, okay, this is something like this is

(45:22):
this?
This is my purpose, this isthis is what I'm here to do.
I'm here to, like, use all ofthis background about, and
knowledge about, the body andhow it works and make it
accessible for women who don'thave that training but know that
there is power in movement andpower in the body.
And so I did, um, I got my yogateacher training like $200

(45:48):
trauma-informed training to beable to support that.
I started studying breath work,holotropic breath work and I
just started kind of addingtools and studying onto what I
already knew to be able to, likeoffer this to women out in the
world.

(46:08):
And yeah, that that was a longstory, but that's how it started
.

Speaker 1 (46:12):
No, I want to.
I wanted to hear that of howyou did that, because I think
what I noticed, like just kindof over the last few years
because when we connected, letme just also state that that was
2020, I think right, or or 2021.
I think it was 2019.

Speaker 2 (46:26):
I think it was like the end, the end of 2019.

Speaker 1 (46:30):
Yeah, okay, yeah, so when we connected, you know.
So since then we've kind ofbeen, you know, we've been
Facebook friends and Instagramfollower buddies or whatever you
want to call it.
So I've seen some of your stuffand I think what really has
stood out to me is the way andalso let me just give you your
flowers Like you're such abeautiful writer.
I really love how you write.
I'm someone who used to writeand like has kind of got lost in

(46:51):
all the trauma and I haven'treally written a lot lately.
I almost feel like I got torelearn.
But I noticed, just from writerto writer, like when I, as soon
as I started reading your stuff,like you're just I love how you
I don't even really know how tosay I just love how you speak
so directly to the real issueand I really love how everything
you write.
It really feels like a loveletter.

(47:14):
Um, it really feels so kind Idon't know how to explain like
it feels like you're just likeoozing empathy and so like I
noticed, like just followingyour platform, like what you
write and how you're trying toteach women it's not just about
dance, it's really clear.
It's not just about dance, butit's like movement is such a big
part of it, and and so, yeah, Iwas just kind of wondering,
like, how did you get to thepoint of like where you're at

(47:34):
now, because you're running afull fledged business right Like
it's?
Yeah, this is it?
Yeah and so.
So for any of my listeners likewhat are you offering and who
are the kind of women who you'rewanting to kind of be a part of
what you're offering?

Speaker 2 (47:50):
Well, first, thank you for saying that.
I mean I really like that.
I let that land and sit withthat.
It's something that I reallyappreciate, you know, because
it's funny.
As much as I love dance andmovement, you know writing
there's such a special place forthe written word in my heart
and I I was away from it for avery long time and so to kind of

(48:11):
like return and get thatfeedback is really special.
You know, now I have so I'mfocused on building community
right.
I, you know I go and facilitatethings at summits and retreats
and have done some corporatework where just body
intelligence right, like, like,how can the person that is

(48:32):
working at their corporate jobteams, how can we use this to be
more cohesive and to be moreproductive?
But my real heart is in thebody intelligence collective,
which is for professional womenthat want a space to explore a

(48:52):
connection with their body right, but also kind of get out of
performance mode.
And I talk about that a lotbecause a lot of us don't tend
to the woman underneath theroles we're showing up as all of
these different things.
You know we're whatever it isthat we are in our job and
whoever it is that we are to ourpartner, whoever it is that we

(49:14):
are to our parents and whoeverit is that we are to our
children.
In the community, you know,there's so many things and we
give so much into those piecesof us that sometimes are very
easy to get lost.
Well, who really am Iunderneath all of that?
When you take all of that away,who am I?
What do I want?

(49:35):
What makes me happy, what makesme feel good?
And I think when we connect tothat, it's like a ripple effect.
It touches our children, ittouches the people that we come
in contact with, because joy is,I mean, like it's hard to find.
You know what I mean?
It's hard to find, and ifyou're not cultivating it and if

(49:58):
you're not, you don't have aconnection to your body.
Um, it's hard out here.
You know it's hard out here.
And so the collective is a space.
Yeah, the collective is a spacewhere, just for women to come,
we do a body church once a month, so we move, uh, virtually, we

(50:19):
have members in different partsof the world, we get together,
we, we celebrate and we havereverence for our bodies.
Um, we, we have a podcast inthere that's only available to
members of the collective whereit's just wisdom.
It's just.
I'm just speaking on on topics.

(50:39):
I'm I'm educating about thebody's role and how we change
behavior right and how we canactually make shifts in our
lives.
Yeah, and we have a group chatthat is popping and we just chat
about things and I really wantto build a world in which women

(51:02):
are not sacrificing connectionwith their bodies in the service
to being successful and tohaving a man and to you know,
all of these things that weoften do.
So that that's kind of whereI'm at right now.

Speaker 1 (51:20):
I love it and I want to ask you about something that
I saw on your socials that Ialso was like see, this is why I
love her.
You said something about firinga marketing person because they
put a picture of you and yourhusband on your website and tell
me if I'm getting the storywrong and you were like why are
you doing this, like I'm forwomen, and the marketing

(51:41):
assistant I think was a man wasjust like oh, I want to show
women what's possible.
And you're like no, becausethis is not the only thing
that's possible for you as awoman.

Speaker 2 (51:58):
So, yeah, tell me about that story, cause I just I
respect it so much.
I thought it was so cool, yeah,and that hurt my feelings,
honestly, when this person thatI I'm paying money to to like
present my offering to the worldin the best possible light and
they came up with a.
It's a beautiful picture of meand my husband, and my husband
is incredible and a major partof my life, right, so I just I

(52:18):
was so shocked to see it in thatcapacity, because that's what
he said to me, like basicallythe reason you need people to
buy in and women are not goingto buy into this work unless you
know you tie it to happily everafter and having a partner, you
know they're not just going towant to do this work for

(52:40):
themselves.
And I just thought that was suchbullshit, like completely you
know, like it pissed me off sobad and I was hurt by it because
I felt like it was reallyreductive and I was like, of all
of the things that I put out inthis world, of all of the
training, of all of the hoursand hours of training, of having

(53:01):
a degree of dancing withBeyonce, of being a yoga teacher
, of going to all of theseplaces, the most important thing
that you want to push forwardis my husband, is the fact that
I'm married, Like come onterrible.

Speaker 1 (53:13):
It's so reductive and it honestly kind of all ties
together.
Like I think men are in thiscollective place where their
minds are blown.
They can't understand a worldwhich so many women are not
living in, where they are notthe center, they're not the
direct center, and also we'readamant that we don't want to be
defined and legitimized by ourproximity to them, whether
you're in the position you're inwhere you're happily completely

(53:35):
married in a wonderful marriage, or I'm single, and I still
don't want to center men rightnow.
I don't want to center them andI don't want my life to be
legitimized by whether or not Iwas married or not or divorced
or not.
You know, and I think men arejust like, because, like I have
I don't know if you got thisback when you were single, but I
have quite a few men who willsay something to me like well,
if you do this differentlyonline, I'm sure you would get a

(53:57):
man.
Or if you, if you didn't saystuff like this, you'd probably
get a man, and it's always men,you know, saying that and I'm
just like y'all really can'tunderstand this.
I really feel like I don't knowif you see this, especially with
, like, how you're coaching andleading this, this collective,
like I feel like women are justmoving in this beautiful place

(54:19):
towards loving ourselves andprioritizing ourselves and
really truly centering ourselves.
And like it's not the.
It's not the.
You know, it's not the timesthat our moms had I think my mom
is probably a lot older thanyour mom, but like it wasn't.
It's not the 70s, it's not thetimes that our moms had I think
my mom is probably a lot olderthan your mom, but like it
wasn't.
It's not the 70s, you know likewhere women were just like we
got to get married, we got tohave babies, you know, and now
it just feels like so empowering.
I love, I love the women rightnow me too.

Speaker 2 (54:43):
I had a great moment and my mom you know it's like my
mom is 78, but she was a verystrong role model with that.
You know, without me knowing,because she, you know her, my
dad they got married when I wasseven years old and she tells me
to this day had you not pressedthis?
Because I pressed it right, Iwas a little kid, I didn't

(55:04):
understand why are y'all notmarried?

Speaker 1 (55:06):
I don't get it we're, we're a family.

Speaker 2 (55:08):
You know, I want you to get married.
So bad.
And they got married when I wasseven and I was in the wedding.
It was beautiful.
But she tells me they go therelike, yeah, we probably wouldn't
have, we probably would havebeen just fine, like we didn't
need to, like get married.
She had been married before.
Um, you know, she got marriedat 18.
Um, yeah, yeah, and so I had agood role model for that, I

(55:36):
guess, and it's funny because Inever would have thought about
it in those terms.
But now that I'm older she andshe did this.
I found an old letter that mymom wrote to me in college,
something about because I had aboyfriend.
Before I even got to college, Ihad a boyfriend.
I've been in long-termrelationships, right.
I've never.
That's why it was crazy.
When I got to Austin, it waslike my first time being single,

(55:58):
single I don't know Since, likehigh school, right, okay, for
any extended period of time,right, because even in the time
that I met your ex-husband, Ihave just come out of a three
year relationship that startedkind of right after I got
divorced.
So she wrote this letter and itwas so beautiful and it was

(56:20):
saying something about like himbeing the icing on the cake or
something, and my life is thecake or I don't know, but she
said it really eloquently and Ididn't even realize at the time,
you know.
But when I read it back I'mlike yeah, mom, like yeah, and
that's how I feel now.
It's like my relationship issacred and I don't post a lot

(56:43):
about it or, you know, I don't.
I'd like to keep it close to mebecause I don't want to be
defined by that at all and Ithink, like you were saying,
it's very possible, regardlessof your marital status and how
much you love your partner oryou being single, you know to

(57:04):
not be always centering thecentering men.

Speaker 1 (57:08):
Yeah, there's so much more to us and I feel like,
honestly, this journey for me,honestly, has started.
So much of this journey startedwhile I was married to him
because he, because he, was sucha misogynist and actually
forced me.
His misogyny was so overt andand extremely violent.
It actually forced me intofiguring out, like I have to
figure out who I am, I have tofigure out what I believe, I

(57:28):
have to figure out who I amoutside of this, because I knew
I couldn't stay.
So this journey, all that tosay, feels still relatively new
for me in some ways, because Igrew up like in in really strong
evangelical Christian.
My whole point was to getmarried and have babies, kind of
thing.
So I had to really reallydeprogram myself.
So, yeah, your work has.

(57:49):
I've I've taken a lot of thingsyou've said and written here and
there and just tried to figureit out for myself, and I've
definitely moved more as aresult, too.
I want to tell you that, too,like I have thought about and
try to dance more also and Ican't very good dancer at all.
I want to be, though I actuallywant to take dance lessons at
some point, but yeah, it'simpacted me and really, really

(58:10):
being like, how can I embodythis more?
Because one thing I will sayabout you and for everybody
listening like Lily, what you,what you do, you truly embody,
like I'm one of those peoplethat believe energy doesn't lie
and I just feel like your energygives off, like you mean what
you say, you're doing what yousay, you know everything, you're

(58:31):
teaching, you're doing it.
I really feel that, like I canfeel it it's emanating off of
your work.
So I just want to kind ofencourage everyone, like please
go check her out, which I wouldlove for you to share, like
where they can find you ifthey're interested in working,
because do you do one on onecoaching?

Speaker 2 (58:48):
Do you do one-on-one coaching?
I do so.
There's a inside of thecollective.
There are different tiers,right?
So there's one tier.
That is just everything that Ikind of spoke about earlier.
There's another tier that hasaccess to a vault of movement
videos.
So, like some challenges, somelike guided movement, we have
movement for grief, movement forrage, movement to build

(59:10):
capacity.

Speaker 1 (59:18):
Just short videos that you can do at home on your
own time and then, at thehighest tier, is one to one work
.
Oh nice, okay, okay.
Well, y'all go check her out,because Lily is that deal and
honestly, I know it just soundslike I'm guessing.
I'm really not, like I reallyreally respect your stuff, like
it just so happens that we metin this weird way, but like if I
just found you outside of thatwhole thing, I would still be

(59:40):
feeling the same way, like Ireally respect what you write,
what you teach, how you do it,your whole platform.
Yeah, I just love it, so, yeah.
So where can we find you on thesocials?
Are you on TikTok or are youjust Instagramming.

Speaker 2 (59:55):
No, I'm not on TikTok , um, I'm just on.
I'm.
Yeah, I have an account, but Idon't I don't know do anything
over there.
Um, so, on Instagram, I'm um.
At body intelligence underscoreAcademy uh, at bodies, body
intelligence academycom slashcollective is where you can find
all the info about thecollective.

(01:00:16):
Um, I'm on LinkedIn for myLinkedIn people, I really.
Yeah, so my book you canactually go to um body
intelligence academycom slashbook and download the audio book
for free.
Yeah, I recorded it as an audiobook.
Yeah, yeah, I'm excited.
A lot of people asked for thatand was like, I would love to

(01:00:39):
like listen to this while I'mgoing for a walk or doing this
or that.
So, yeah, you can go um, thelink is on my Instagram as well.
You can just go ahead anddownload it for free and take a
listen.

Speaker 1 (01:00:49):
Okay, all right, I definitely will.
I had.
When you first told me you werewriting a book, I was like, oh
my God, because I knew it wasgoing to be good.
And so I feel so bad that I'mtalking about how good a writer
you are and I haven't got it.
But I'm going to get it becauseI know.
I actually went on yourInstagram today just so I could,
like you know, look atbackground stuff and I saw like,
see, I got to get this, so I'mgoing to get it.

(01:01:10):
So it's not available on Amazon, it's just on your website.

Speaker 2 (01:01:12):
It is.
You can get it on Amazon also.
But Amazon, you know, it's likeI don't know.
Some people like to hold aphysical book.
So, yes, you can get it onAmazon.
Or, if you want to listen, youcan definitely download it also.

Speaker 1 (01:01:24):
Okay, Okay.
So to end here, let me ask youone final question.
What would you say to someonewho's watching this right now,
who is kind of struggling tofind themselves and, um, or
maybe just feels a little stuckin life, Like how could they
practically apply some of thethings that you teach about
movement and just to kind ofpush their life forward?
You know a little bit.

Speaker 2 (01:01:44):
Mm, I would say create a space, a quiet space
where you can hear yourself.
That's step number one.

(01:02:05):
I think we're so overloadedwith information and inspiration
and even though inspiration isgreat, right, it can tell us,
kind of lead us, to where wewant to go there's so many
layers on top of our trueheart's desire that it gets hard

(01:02:26):
to cut through that noise.
So I think, taking a timeperiod, that's right for you,
right, not everybody can justdrop out of things you know for
an extended time.
But just get in nature, getquiet If you can like, cut off
of social media, media ingeneral, right, and just be able

(01:02:51):
to hear yourself, right, andmove a little bit.
It doesn't have to be a hugemovement practice, right,
sometimes just taking a mat orsomething out somewhere in
nature and just sitting and justswaying and just rocking, you
know, and just the smallestthing.

(01:03:12):
It never needs to be a biggrand gesture, but just be able
to hear yourself.
That's before anything, becausewe don't realize sometimes how
many messages are coming throughthat aren't really originating
with us, that are just comingthrough us and that we kind of

(01:03:32):
take on as, oh I should do thisor I should want this, or maybe
I want to do this, but get still, get quiet, get in nature and
move.

Speaker 1 (01:03:41):
I love that, thank you.
Thank you so much.
I appreciate you being here andthanks for, you know, digging
up the past with me.

Speaker 2 (01:03:50):
Yeah, I'm really glad that we met, you know, I'm
really glad you know.
Digging up the past with me,yeah, I'm really glad that we
met, you know, I'm really gladyou know, isn't it?
Isn't it?
God works in mysterious ways,right, and the things that
happen, and you know who wouldhave thought?
Who would have thought, I know?

Speaker 1 (01:04:03):
right?
Yeah, it's.
It's always a reminder to methat the most beautiful things
like even, you know, mybeautiful, wonderful, amazing
daughter came from somethingthat was like one of the most
painful things I've ever wentthrough in my life.
But there's always beauty inthe ashes, so this is just
another example of that.
So I'm grateful for you andthank you for being here, and I
hope that any of my listenerswill resonate, will find you.

(01:04:27):
I hope so.
You are worth following.
You're a leader worth followingfor sure, so so yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:04:36):
Thank you.

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