August 1, 2023 • 32 mins
In this episode of Out of Session w/ Kindman & Co., host Dani Marrufo engages in a profound conversation with José Vidrio, owner of Highland Park Training, about the evolving concepts of fatherhood and masculinity. They delve into the challenges and responsibilities of modern fatherhood, exploring how traditional masculine roles are being redefined in today's society. José shares personal experiences and insights on navigating identity, emotional expression, and the societal expectations placed on men. This discussion offers valuable perspectives for anyone interested in understanding the complexities of male identity and the transformative journey of fatherhood.
Today we're bringing you to:
Highland Park Training and encouraging you to check out The Dad Vibes on Instagram to see wholesome fatherhood content.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:01):
Hi, my name is Danny and you're listening to Out of Session with
Kaiman and Co, a Feelings Forward podcast where we leave
our therapist selves at the doorand have messy, real
conversations about being human.Today's topic is fatherhood and
masculinity and we welcome our very first guest ever, Jose
Vidrio, a very wholesome human who is the owner of Highland
(00:26):
Park Training, which is a functional fitness gym that
truly values community equity and empowerment.
Jose takes a kind hearted and encouraging approach to being a
coach at Highland Park training and leads each class with
warmth, lots and lots of laughter and just good times.
(00:47):
Outside of the gym though, Jose is a soon to be father and so
I've been having smaller side conversations in the middle of
workouts or before or after about him preparing for
fatherhood. And Jose, I'm very excited to
bring you on to this podcast to expand those conversations a
(01:08):
little bit more. So welcome to add a session.
How are you feeling now that you're, I think it's two weeks
away from your baby being born? I feel so grateful, so blessed.
I'm excited, but I know I'm nervous or like, I know things
(01:28):
that I I know I'm going to learna lot from this experience.
So I'm just happy to like, be open to like, whatever happens.
And like, I know I have my parents and Sam's parents, and
Sam's just an amazing person, sobe surrounded by those people is
a blessing for me. Just surrounding yourself with
(01:50):
good people. Good people, yeah.
You have a very lovely wife, Sam.
She's the best thing that happened to me.
That's amazing. That's a good person to parent
with. You know you're going to want to
be with somebody that's the bestperson in your life.
That's awesome. I think.
I was so curious to talk to you,curious to do a podcast with
(02:11):
you, because just like approaching parenthood, I know
that there's a ton of information and this could be
that I have a bias perspective being a woman.
But there is so much informationabout like womanhood, having a
baby, being pregnant. And it seems like there is this
(02:32):
scale that's tipped where it's heavily dominant on the person
that's pregnant. There is books, there's
podcasts, there's TV shows, movies.
I feel like since planning for this podcast, I haven't seen
like a a TV series that hasn't. Had There's nothing for men.
There's nothing for like men. Yeah, but I haven't seen that.
(02:53):
There's like not as much prep that they want men to do.
Yeah. Or like the the other partner to
do. What was your experience in
that? I think I had to like.
I had to force myself onto to like.
I think an example is the baby shower.
The baby shower and and past like it used to be a woman
(03:16):
thing. Now it's more open to men.
Men are invited to to to baby showers.
So me being involved more like actively trying to be involved
in whatever. Baby shower, putting putting
things together. I think that the only thing that
men have is like putting things together.
(03:36):
Lots. Of furniture.
Lot of furniture. Lot of furniture, Lot of IKEA
stuff, Lot of cribs. I finally set my my chair in my
car. So I'm excited.
It turns and everything. I'm just so excited.
Every single time. It gets a little bit more real
and real and real. Every month got a little bit
more real and real and real and now like.
(03:57):
Now we're going to walk out of the hospital with like a kid, a
full on. A full on baby.
Yeah, ideally that is going to happen.
In the next few weeks, yeah. So there's not a ton of
information. It seems like in prep work for
becoming a father, you kind of just were like, throwing
yourself into things. But I think that just goes to
(04:18):
show, like, there's not really ahandbook on how to do it.
So we're going to be talking about you becoming a father.
You're a few weeks out from that.
Do you already consider yourselfa father?
No. No, I I don't.
Because I don't have a kid or maybe sent, like, maybe I never
(04:39):
asked that. That's a great question.
I never asked Sam. And she considered selves a mom.
I I've, I've been very forward about, you know, Mother's Day
just passing. I like, hey, like are like, are
you a mom? Or like do I give you flowers?
Like I didn't. Maybe it's a bad question to
ask. But I just want to be on the
same communication. Like, if I don't bring flowers,
(05:03):
that doesn't mean you're not a mom.
Or does it mean and if I bring flowers like you're a mom,
right? It was so interesting too.
It's like. She was right in the the, the
line mom cussing. I mean, I think it's so
personal, right? Like some folks like, want to
have their child in hand to feellike they have become that
(05:27):
parent. And maybe right now, maybe I
realize like, yeah, like Sam's been taking care of our kid in
(05:49):
the womb. And some people prior to that,
maybe like later in the pregnancy, they're already
feeling like they're caring for that part of them, trying to be
a parent already. Like you said, you're doing a
lot of prep. So.
So she is a mom. Where?
When does it start? Well, I think, well, that's for
everybody to decide. It sounds like for you it starts
when you have child in hand. Child in hand?
That's my official thing. Locked in the car?
Yes, driving home. Yes, when they can let me take
the I don't know if I even put it right, so I'll find out that
(06:10):
day, I feel. I think I did it.
I feel confident. I shook it a couple times.
I love that. In approaching fatherhood, then,
do you feel like you've done anyreflection on your own
masculinity, or what it is to bea father?
(06:33):
Well, growing up with my dad, like my dad told me stories
about his dad and how he treatedhim.
So now that I've grown up, or that my dad raised me or my
parents raised me, but specifically my dad, My dad did
certain things that like, I didn't like.
And I don't want my kid to go through that.
(06:55):
But I'm sure when I'm older and he has kids, if he wants kids,
he's going to do things that like he didn't like I I I did to
him. Maybe punishment?
Or maybe the way I raised them or so?
I'm just trying to do my best with this kid or you know, for
(07:16):
me breaking down like generational curse or kind of
having that, like I don't know what's my generation occurs.
That's why I'm trying to go to therapy.
But I'm sure like through traumaand everything, I'm not trying
to hand that over to to my kid, to my kids or if I have more
(07:37):
kids, I don't want that for my for my kid.
Yeah, you're you're trying to doyour part and kind of reflecting
and it seems like you did that before, right?
You saw and heard your dad's experience.
Now you're reflecting on yours, seeing what you're going to pass
on. But there is some somewhat of an
unknown like what what will you pass on, right.
(07:58):
Hopefully there will be a lot ofa lot of values and character
qualities that you want to see passed on to your kid, but I
think you're like leaving room for like you're going to try to
do your best. Yes, that's it.
The people tell me like, oh, areyou nervous or like, like the
only thing I can do is give these kids or give this kid like
(08:20):
unconditional love and support that that that can.
It's going to be like a rock, like whatever, whatever.
Even if I get scared, if I get uncomfortable for like what he
does or I just had the. Feel uncomfortable and like to
support them and like, love themunconditionally.
Yeah, it's more you're talking about things that are more based
(08:43):
in like emotional safety, right?To be able to support somebody,
love them in your emotional journey, right?
Is that something that feels comfortable?
Like, are you able to go to thatvulnerable place easily and like
sit in a feelings space? No, no.
(09:03):
I ever, ever since Sam got pregnant, there's times that I
felt uncomfortable. And I want to leave the room.
I want to leave the the conversation, but I make myself
stay there longer just so I can feel that uncomfortableness.
But I noticed I've grown a lot more from sitting with the
(09:25):
uncomfortableness. And even those in like, if it
makes my palm sweaty, it makes my voice like crack cool.
Like, I stay there and try to bebrave, encouraged to to feel
those emotions. That's powerful.
I try. I try.
Sometimes I walk out of the roomand like I, but I'll come back
(09:49):
the next day and I'll try again.I think I felt like a little bit
of sadness when you said that just because I it's you're
talking about this piece of putting yourself in an
uncomfortable situation because you want to grow there.
It's an interesting line though,right?
(10:09):
Like to know am I emotionally safe and can I push through this
or am I so uncomfortable that I need to leave.
And it seems like your boundary are starting to understand but
you really want to like develop that skill of like sitting in
the uncomfortable. Yes.
Was your like model in masculinity like so maybe your
(10:32):
dad or other men around you right.
Would they do things like that? Also?
Like would they sit in the uncomfortable?
Would they leave? I think my dad would like leave
the the conversation like, but like we're just having a
conversation and we're not arguing.
We're not like fighting or we'renot like, but there's certain
things that happen or like that we disagree on and we just need
(10:56):
to talk so we can be on the samepage.
And I felt like a lot of my my, like my parents or my family,
I've noticed just kind of like, leave the conversation.
Like what? We're just trying to talk.
I'm trying to talk this out. I'm not trying to like an arte.
I'm not trying to bring you down.
I'm trying to so we can both be.On the same page and I feel a
(11:18):
lot of a lot of situations or a lot of problems that we had.
If we just had a talk, this whole thing could have been
solved even though like one of us or both of us would have been
feel uncomfortable. But at the end of the day, like
you're my dad and I'm your son, that doesn't change.
So you could be mad at me for a little bit, or I could be mad at
you for a little bit, but like that doesn't change.
(11:38):
So you we're going to know each other forever.
Yeah, ideally. And that's.
Like and life is not that long. Life is not that long.
I'm already 30 years old, My dad's already 60MM HM.
It keeps life, keeps going and what I'm hearing is that you
want you want those long relationships with your dad.
(11:58):
It sounds like you want that long lasting relationship with
your son, and to get there you're saying you're gonna have
to sit in these uncomfortable feelings.
But you want to, right? Yeah, yeah, I have to.
I have to. And so you've had a lot of those
conversations with Sam, though, leading up to her game of birth.
(12:23):
What kind of positions you've had, I guess like any but
sitting those conversations thatmake you sit in that
uncomfortable space. I think I've never told Sam that
like this is something consciously that I'm trying to
do. Like when I feel uncomfortable,
I sit down because Sam, Sam, youknow, Sam's a loud person and I
Sam's a loud person. She's intense and I don't like
(12:47):
the spotlight on me or like, youknow, people looking at me and
Sam is just. Kind of opposite of me.
And for a while I felt uncomfortable.
So I would kind of like, hey, like Sam, like, you know, like
let's talk a little bit slower. Like a little bit.
And what? Like, no, Like, it doesn't
matter what everyone thinks. And now, like, I understand,
like, okay, like, I just had to sit in this uncomfortable
(13:07):
feeling. And, you know, I cannot like,
have Sam, like be different. That's how she is.
Yeah. You're not asking her to be
different. You're asking for a little bit
of slowness. Yeah.
But even even then, right? Like, you're sitting in this
place of like, Oh my God. I hate attention, but I don't
know. I I hate the center of attention
(13:29):
and I hate having any attention on me.
And Sam's the opposite. Yeah, Her whole family's the
opposite. They're loud.
The loudest one in the the the the table is the one that gets
hurt. And that's totally fine.
That's how it is. Like I that's family.
(13:50):
Yeah, yeah, that's funny. So you have, like, it sounds
like you've navigated conversations by, like kind of
like sitting back, maybe being more quiet, being a little more
anxious or nervous, right. Were you, like deemed as not as
masculine because of that? Or did?
(14:11):
Did you feel like folks judged you for that?
I've never thought of, like, masculinity or me having
masculinity. Like, I grew up, my dad growing,
going to work. So I hung out with my mom and my
mom was cleaning the house. That was just kind of
traditional Mexican household. So, like, I helped my mom
(14:31):
cleaning the dishes or washing or like, I figured we were just
hanging out and as I get older. It seems it's kind of weird for
like a man to be holding a broomor like a man to be washing
dishes. I never realized that until like
I saw someone out like a anotherman washing dishes or my dad
never washing dishes. I never realized that until like
(14:54):
till till I got this age that like I do wash the dishes or the
the the kind of typical like historically like feminine.
Yes, yeah, yeah. So I am.
And my dad never posed like. Masculine traits on me or like
that never happened to me or my dad was never like that.
(15:19):
Yeah, it seems like maybe not sodirectly, right?
Yeah. Yes, kind of in these indirect
ways of him maybe not wanting toengage in some conversations.
So I think that some folks have these social constructs of like
masculinity or feminine need putdirectly on them.
Like, oh, to be a man, you need to do this.
(15:41):
And get to be tough, yeah, the to to be mean or be the
strongest one there. And I think maybe my family that
that just never was. Yeah, Yeah.
You got like more of the undertones of stuff.
Yes. But also there was this piece of
like you being raised by your mom in the home where you just
(16:05):
kind of did your thing with her and there wasn't.
My dad helps. I don't know.
There wasn't. Yeah.
Yes. Do you want to carry that with
you like into parenting of like the helping out around the house
and doing anything that comes your way, regardless of what
historical category it fits in? Masculine.
(16:27):
Feminine. I I think me and Sam are a team.
We're a couple and we have our our strengths and our
weaknesses. Sam hates washing the dishes.
That I understand. I understand.
So I'll do it. That's her week.
Weeks I'm scared of like I don'tknow the dark.
She's she's she's not. That's why I feel like we're
(16:52):
like perfect together. Like the strengths that she has
are my weaknesses and the weaknesses that I have are her
strengths. She's a really smart person of.
Typing stuff, emailing stuff. She can e-mail all day, and I
have one e-mail stresses me out.I hate e-mail and I had to
e-mail you for this. And I was like, man, I've gotta
(17:14):
send an. E-mail.
What e-mail? I get.
It takes me all day and they're like, man, that wasn't so bad.
Why was I worried about it all day?
And for her, she just. Fast, quick.
She can write a description for a house no problem.
And for me, like man, that wouldtake me all week to do so just
like the the the strengths and pros.
(17:36):
So like that's how I look at me raising my kid or or whatever,
whatever the kid. However, you outburst when
you're mad or like what the kid just copies you.
Yes, the kid just copies you. So if you're an example, if
you're reading a book, then the kid most likely is going to want
(17:59):
to open up a book and that can lead to something else.
If he sees you helping people, then maybe the kid will help
like see like help people. Yeah, like model actually
modeling. You see an adult get raged up or
like, get all mad. That's how your kid is going to
get all raged up and like, mad Ithat was me.
(18:20):
When people would confront me, Iwould just like leave the room.
And until like Sam broader, likeyou, your dad does that, then
you do that. Like, Oh my God, I never noticed
that. Oh my God, self-awareness is so
powerful when someone points it out.
Yes, and like and and and one thing is that like you have to
be OK for with that criticism and you can't be like.
(18:45):
Get your feelings hurt. So it's so sensitive about it.
Like let people like criticize you and that's going to help you
so much. Yeah, in the future.
I mean it takes a certain level of like, well, I think that's
where like the vulnerability andtrust in a relationship comes in
where you have to be in this like softer space to be able to
(19:05):
receive something that someone sharing like a feedback.
Yeah, you hear it out. You can have all the feelings
that you want about it. And sometimes those are really
big feelings where it makes you sad, it makes you angry, it
makes you frustrated with the person that you learned it from.
But all of those things, right? Like you can process, you can
(19:27):
work through. And I think when we talk about
more toxic masculinity, right, Like it doesn't allow for a lot
of that soft space to sit there and to have these like open
conversations to have big feelings, but to communicate
them in like a constructive way to offer like repair, like if
(19:53):
you hurt somebody's feelings to go back and.
Be so sensitive. I I didn't realize I was a
sensitive person until I think II don't know who told my sister
or they told me, Oh, my dad's sosensitive.
Like, oh man, like that could beme too.
And like, yeah, like I'm a sensitive guy, but I didn't
realize that was sensitive untilsomeone pointed it out because
(20:16):
someone tells me something and then, like, I don't talk to that
person for a week, A month regardless, Like.
Oh my gosh, I feel like sensitivity, the way that you're
describing it to has so many feelings inside of it.
Cuz when I hear someone say likedon't be sensitive I would be
like. Well, maybe I'm like, mad.
Or maybe I'm actually sad. Or maybe I've hurt from.
(20:36):
What I said. But the sensitivity label is
very big, so I'd be curious in those moments, like to actually
sit with yourself, Like, what amI?
Actually feeling right now, right?
Honestly, maybe maybe there's too much for like, have you ever
had that thing that like, if I just tell this person this, like
(20:58):
it would change their whole life, but you don't tell that
person because it might change your whole relationship.
It might change like the whole it would be mad for you forever.
But that's why you maybe that person doesn't give you room to
like, hey like look like this iswhat you're doing.
It's making everyone upset like,I'm not trying to be a bad
person. I'm just trying to help you or
(21:21):
trying to give you a little bit of criticism to help this whole
situation. And it changes everything.
But if you, if you tell that person, they could take it the
wrong way and they can never talk to you, you can change your
whole relationship. And I want to kind of have space
for for that, for my mom to tellme, for my sisters to tell me,
(21:43):
for my wife to tell me like, hey, you're being a Dick.
And like instead of me start me off like all like, this is
ridiculous. I'm leaving.
Like, OK, like, look like, yeah,like, alright, like, you're
right. It was too loud.
Like or, you know, OK, I'll calmdown or sit with my feelings,
breathe it out or or why was I being loud or how am I being
(22:03):
loud? Yes, that curiosity paid place
of like inviting like, OK, tell me what you're seeing, right.
Like, how are you seeing me be this way or that way?
Yes. Yeah, I I think it's so powerful
that you're you noticed that about you and you're trying to
figure out how to stay in those uncomfortable conversations in a
(22:25):
way that feels okay for you. Yeah, I I kind of want to talk a
little bit about the gym culturethat you've created.
So you've owned your gym for 10 years.
I just started almost a year ago, which is it's time flies.
(22:47):
In July, time flies. I can't believe it's been a year
with you already. I know.
I like. I've honestly enjoyed your gym.
Thank you so much. But you you.
It's you guys. It's you guys.
Thank you. Thank you.
It's you guys. I just from what?
From when you started using likea £15 bar to like now or like
(23:09):
you knowing your way around the gym or like you knowing people
there. That's what like brings me
happiness. Like, not money, like that's
what brings me happiness. Like you talking to other people
or you knowing around the gym. Like, that's what like and I
can't believe it's just been a year.
I know it has been and I was thinking about myself when I
(23:30):
first started and yeah, the. Feelings coming into the gym.
OK, so here was my thoughts, right?
Like, I came into the gym after I had like a senior Instagram
and I saw some, like, pride flags.
I saw a Black Lives Matter flag that was like, in one of the
videos. And I was like, OK, let me go
(23:50):
into this gym. It seemed kind of CrossFit base.
And I was like, oh, I don't know.
This seems intimidating. All the masculinity, I don't
know. And you know, I feel fairly
confident moving my body, but I think just entering a gym as a
woman has made me feel before very uncomfortable.
(24:12):
So I was like, I'm going to takethis risk.
I'm going to go and I went and Imet you, You were super open.
I think that's why I feel so comfortable.
Kind of like getting my bar set up or like putting the weights
on because you allowed me to like ask questions and.
You took this perspective of teaching in like a really
(24:34):
empowering way that didn't make me feel like, oh gosh, I know
nothing. And it's so obvious and I'm
being judged for it or criticized.
So I think the gym culture you've created has really been
inviting in that way. And I will ask you any question
now I will like. Thank you.
Thank you. That's all that that's all I
(24:54):
want like and just sometimes I still like I want to put a a box
for like. I'm just too scared to like put
a box for you guys to criticize,not criticize, but suggestions.
Oh, like feedback, feedback. It just I can't deal with it
still. I can't deal with that still.
See, but you're learning. This whole time we've been
talking about how you're like, yes.
(25:16):
Trying to receive feedback in a new way?
Yes. So maybe that's like a goal for
the future. For the future.
One day you'll have a suggestions box.
What do you worry that people are going to say Every everyone
there? There's always better things
that I could be doing at the gym, but like, it just sometimes
(25:36):
isn't feasible. Sometimes it just isn't
feasible. Yeah.
Ooh, I instantly thought about parenting.
Can I tell you why? Tell me.
Tell me. Because you were talking about
how you just want to love your kid unconditionally and.
Like maybe those, like, financial pieces you just can't.
(25:56):
But if you could just love somebody and like, support them,
that would be everything that. I feel like that translates
exactly the gym, where it's likeyou're creating this environment
that feels so welcoming. People talk, you know, like you
walk into the gym, you see folkslike chatting with you or
chatting with each other. You'll get, like, I've gotten a
(26:18):
few Instagram requests, right? Like people want to build a
community there. And so maybe you don't have like
the financial pieces that are going to make it quote UN quote
better however you want them to be, but you're like loving us
unconditionally. Yeah, they're like.
Supporting us in creating community with you.
Yes. Yeah, Yes.
(26:40):
Sort of like parents. Yeah, nice.
Mind blown. Mind blown.
Oh my God. Also like, who's going to be
riding on the suggestion box? Like I want expensive stuff.
(27:01):
I just don't know the credit or the the suggestion by I don't
know what it can. This gym sucks.
I what? Who wrote this?
Also, like that's not a suggestion.
That's funny. Yeah.
So for you, that feedback piece is so important to like have
(27:21):
some sort of gentleness. I think going back to the
encouragement piece, you're all about high fives after a
workout. What do you say?
You say high five your partner. That's what you always say.
And like, I try to tell you, like great coaching, right?
I really appreciate it because it's hard.
(27:42):
It's harder like you throw, you're throwing.
And I feel like it's an event every class and I want everyone
to have a good time and have like hit their goals.
So maybe you telling me that like Oh yeah, like thank you
(28:02):
Liv. And thank you so much because
like I I tried. It's not that like I go in there
like all right guys do whatever you guys want.
Like no, I I give them my all too to like help you guys reach
your guys's goals or do your best in that class.
So it's not just it's not easy and I think this is the first
time I like tells like no, it's not easy being a coach or it's
(28:22):
not easy running a class. And I feel like maybe, yeah,
that that's how I feel. Yeah, I mean, there's so much
that goes into just keeping the gym, like, honestly tidy.
There's so much stuff in the gymthat if it's not cleaned up,
(28:45):
it's like everywhere at the end of the class there's like so
much gear out, gear dust. There's always something broken
or something that needs to be fixed and I feel I do a great
job of doing that so you guys won't notice it or I try to do
that. Yeah.
(29:06):
No, you do a great job. You make it very comfortable.
I think that you make it very accessible for folks.
I love that. You know, one day your workout
partner would be like. I'm thinking of someone that's
like fairly young at the gym, I think, I think she's in fifth
grade or something, And then somebody else who's like in
(29:27):
their older adulthood, right, doing a different version of a
workout. So I love that you make it
accessible in so many ways and it's just been so welcoming and
really does. What's your motto?
It's not a gym. It's it's a community.
Yes, it really does feel like that.
(29:50):
So I I'm just glad to be there. No, thank you.
Thank you for giving us a chanceand you coming in.
It's it's so nice that I've met you.
Yeah, I I'm glad to invite you too.
And I think all of the things that you're doing at the gym, to
me, right from my perspective ofnavigating this world as a
(30:11):
woman, feel like breaking down that like historically
masculine. Like toxic masculine energy
that's at the gyms. And so I thought this would be
totally fun podcast to just talkwith you about how those things
all kind of come together of like you working in A and like
(30:32):
owning a business in a historically like toxic
masculine business. But breaking down some of those,
I guess I'll call them like values or like like stereotypes
or. That's the word I was looking
for. Exactly.
Breaking down those stereotypes and then how that mixed with you
(30:54):
being a father, it just seems soconnected by that piece of
masculinity. So thank you for being here.
Oh, thank you. So before we say goodbye, I want
to bring you to a wonderful gym right down the street from us.
We've talked a lot about Highland Park training today.
Please go check them out. Talk to Jose, maybe even try out
(31:16):
a class and see what you think. Also, if you are looking to add
some wholesome fatherhood content to your social media
feed, please check out the Dad Vibes on Instagram.
It's the period Dad period vibes.
This account is run by a father who uses different quotes or
(31:37):
tips and even. Episode clips from his very own
podcast to talk about parenting without shaming your child.
Topics like staying present withyour own emotions while
parenting, and there's even somestuff about reevaluating
expectations placed on children.So that's all for us today.
(32:01):
Thank you for joining us and thank you again to Jose for
being the 1st guest. On our podcast.
It's been really great, so we'llsee you next time when we're out
of session.
Hi, my name is Danny and you're listening to Out of Session with
Kaiman and Co, a Feelings Forward podcast where we leave
our therapist selves at the doorand have messy, real
conversations about being human.Today's topic is fatherhood and
masculinity and we welcome our very first guest ever, Jose
Vidrio, a very wholesome human who is the owner of Highland
(00:26):
Park Training, which is a functional fitness gym that
truly values community equity and empowerment.
Jose takes a kind hearted and encouraging approach to being a
coach at Highland Park training and leads each class with
warmth, lots and lots of laughter and just good times.
(00:47):
Outside of the gym though, Jose is a soon to be father and so
I've been having smaller side conversations in the middle of
workouts or before or after about him preparing for
fatherhood. And Jose, I'm very excited to
bring you on to this podcast to expand those conversations a
(01:08):
little bit more. So welcome to add a session.
How are you feeling now that you're, I think it's two weeks
away from your baby being born? I feel so grateful, so blessed.
I'm excited, but I know I'm nervous or like, I know things
(01:28):
that I I know I'm going to learna lot from this experience.
So I'm just happy to like, be open to like, whatever happens.
And like, I know I have my parents and Sam's parents, and
Sam's just an amazing person, sobe surrounded by those people is
a blessing for me. Just surrounding yourself with
(01:50):
good people. Good people, yeah.
You have a very lovely wife, Sam.
She's the best thing that happened to me.
That's amazing. That's a good person to parent
with. You know you're going to want to
be with somebody that's the bestperson in your life.
That's awesome. I think.
I was so curious to talk to you,curious to do a podcast with
(02:11):
you, because just like approaching parenthood, I know
that there's a ton of information and this could be
that I have a bias perspective being a woman.
But there is so much informationabout like womanhood, having a
baby, being pregnant. And it seems like there is this
(02:32):
scale that's tipped where it's heavily dominant on the person
that's pregnant. There is books, there's
podcasts, there's TV shows, movies.
I feel like since planning for this podcast, I haven't seen
like a a TV series that hasn't. Had There's nothing for men.
There's nothing for like men. Yeah, but I haven't seen that.
(02:53):
There's like not as much prep that they want men to do.
Yeah. Or like the the other partner to
do. What was your experience in
that? I think I had to like.
I had to force myself onto to like.
I think an example is the baby shower.
The baby shower and and past like it used to be a woman
(03:16):
thing. Now it's more open to men.
Men are invited to to to baby showers.
So me being involved more like actively trying to be involved
in whatever. Baby shower, putting putting
things together. I think that the only thing that
men have is like putting things together.
(03:36):
Lots. Of furniture.
Lot of furniture. Lot of furniture, Lot of IKEA
stuff, Lot of cribs. I finally set my my chair in my
car. So I'm excited.
It turns and everything. I'm just so excited.
Every single time. It gets a little bit more real
and real and real. Every month got a little bit
more real and real and real and now like.
(03:57):
Now we're going to walk out of the hospital with like a kid, a
full on. A full on baby.
Yeah, ideally that is going to happen.
In the next few weeks, yeah. So there's not a ton of
information. It seems like in prep work for
becoming a father, you kind of just were like, throwing
yourself into things. But I think that just goes to
(04:18):
show, like, there's not really ahandbook on how to do it.
So we're going to be talking about you becoming a father.
You're a few weeks out from that.
Do you already consider yourselfa father?
No. No, I I don't.
Because I don't have a kid or maybe sent, like, maybe I never
(04:39):
asked that. That's a great question.
I never asked Sam. And she considered selves a mom.
I I've, I've been very forward about, you know, Mother's Day
just passing. I like, hey, like are like, are
you a mom? Or like do I give you flowers?
Like I didn't. Maybe it's a bad question to
ask. But I just want to be on the
same communication. Like, if I don't bring flowers,
(05:03):
that doesn't mean you're not a mom.
Or does it mean and if I bring flowers like you're a mom,
right? It was so interesting too.
It's like. She was right in the the, the
line mom cussing. I mean, I think it's so
personal, right? Like some folks like, want to
have their child in hand to feellike they have become that
(05:27):
parent. And maybe right now, maybe I
realize like, yeah, like Sam's been taking care of our kid in
(05:49):
the womb. And some people prior to that,
maybe like later in the pregnancy, they're already
feeling like they're caring for that part of them, trying to be
a parent already. Like you said, you're doing a
lot of prep. So.
So she is a mom. Where?
When does it start? Well, I think, well, that's for
everybody to decide. It sounds like for you it starts
when you have child in hand. Child in hand?
That's my official thing. Locked in the car?
Yes, driving home. Yes, when they can let me take
the I don't know if I even put it right, so I'll find out that
(06:10):
day, I feel. I think I did it.
I feel confident. I shook it a couple times.
I love that. In approaching fatherhood, then,
do you feel like you've done anyreflection on your own
masculinity, or what it is to bea father?
(06:33):
Well, growing up with my dad, like my dad told me stories
about his dad and how he treatedhim.
So now that I've grown up, or that my dad raised me or my
parents raised me, but specifically my dad, My dad did
certain things that like, I didn't like.
And I don't want my kid to go through that.
(06:55):
But I'm sure when I'm older and he has kids, if he wants kids,
he's going to do things that like he didn't like I I I did to
him. Maybe punishment?
Or maybe the way I raised them or so?
I'm just trying to do my best with this kid or you know, for
(07:16):
me breaking down like generational curse or kind of
having that, like I don't know what's my generation occurs.
That's why I'm trying to go to therapy.
But I'm sure like through traumaand everything, I'm not trying
to hand that over to to my kid, to my kids or if I have more
(07:37):
kids, I don't want that for my for my kid.
Yeah, you're you're trying to doyour part and kind of reflecting
and it seems like you did that before, right?
You saw and heard your dad's experience.
Now you're reflecting on yours, seeing what you're going to pass
on. But there is some somewhat of an
unknown like what what will you pass on, right.
(07:58):
Hopefully there will be a lot ofa lot of values and character
qualities that you want to see passed on to your kid, but I
think you're like leaving room for like you're going to try to
do your best. Yes, that's it.
The people tell me like, oh, areyou nervous or like, like the
only thing I can do is give these kids or give this kid like
(08:20):
unconditional love and support that that that can.
It's going to be like a rock, like whatever, whatever.
Even if I get scared, if I get uncomfortable for like what he
does or I just had the. Feel uncomfortable and like to
support them and like, love themunconditionally.
Yeah, it's more you're talking about things that are more based
(08:43):
in like emotional safety, right?To be able to support somebody,
love them in your emotional journey, right?
Is that something that feels comfortable?
Like, are you able to go to thatvulnerable place easily and like
sit in a feelings space? No, no.
(09:03):
I ever, ever since Sam got pregnant, there's times that I
felt uncomfortable. And I want to leave the room.
I want to leave the the conversation, but I make myself
stay there longer just so I can feel that uncomfortableness.
But I noticed I've grown a lot more from sitting with the
(09:25):
uncomfortableness. And even those in like, if it
makes my palm sweaty, it makes my voice like crack cool.
Like, I stay there and try to bebrave, encouraged to to feel
those emotions. That's powerful.
I try. I try.
Sometimes I walk out of the roomand like I, but I'll come back
(09:49):
the next day and I'll try again.I think I felt like a little bit
of sadness when you said that just because I it's you're
talking about this piece of putting yourself in an
uncomfortable situation because you want to grow there.
It's an interesting line though,right?
(10:09):
Like to know am I emotionally safe and can I push through this
or am I so uncomfortable that I need to leave.
And it seems like your boundary are starting to understand but
you really want to like develop that skill of like sitting in
the uncomfortable. Yes.
Was your like model in masculinity like so maybe your
(10:32):
dad or other men around you right.
Would they do things like that? Also?
Like would they sit in the uncomfortable?
Would they leave? I think my dad would like leave
the the conversation like, but like we're just having a
conversation and we're not arguing.
We're not like fighting or we'renot like, but there's certain
things that happen or like that we disagree on and we just need
(10:56):
to talk so we can be on the samepage.
And I felt like a lot of my my, like my parents or my family,
I've noticed just kind of like, leave the conversation.
Like what? We're just trying to talk.
I'm trying to talk this out. I'm not trying to like an arte.
I'm not trying to bring you down.
I'm trying to so we can both be.On the same page and I feel a
(11:18):
lot of a lot of situations or a lot of problems that we had.
If we just had a talk, this whole thing could have been
solved even though like one of us or both of us would have been
feel uncomfortable. But at the end of the day, like
you're my dad and I'm your son, that doesn't change.
So you could be mad at me for a little bit, or I could be mad at
you for a little bit, but like that doesn't change.
(11:38):
So you we're going to know each other forever.
Yeah, ideally. And that's.
Like and life is not that long. Life is not that long.
I'm already 30 years old, My dad's already 60MM HM.
It keeps life, keeps going and what I'm hearing is that you
want you want those long relationships with your dad.
(11:58):
It sounds like you want that long lasting relationship with
your son, and to get there you're saying you're gonna have
to sit in these uncomfortable feelings.
But you want to, right? Yeah, yeah, I have to.
I have to. And so you've had a lot of those
conversations with Sam, though, leading up to her game of birth.
(12:23):
What kind of positions you've had, I guess like any but
sitting those conversations thatmake you sit in that
uncomfortable space. I think I've never told Sam that
like this is something consciously that I'm trying to
do. Like when I feel uncomfortable,
I sit down because Sam, Sam, youknow, Sam's a loud person and I
Sam's a loud person. She's intense and I don't like
(12:47):
the spotlight on me or like, youknow, people looking at me and
Sam is just. Kind of opposite of me.
And for a while I felt uncomfortable.
So I would kind of like, hey, like Sam, like, you know, like
let's talk a little bit slower. Like a little bit.
And what? Like, no, Like, it doesn't
matter what everyone thinks. And now, like, I understand,
like, okay, like, I just had to sit in this uncomfortable
(13:07):
feeling. And, you know, I cannot like,
have Sam, like be different. That's how she is.
Yeah. You're not asking her to be
different. You're asking for a little bit
of slowness. Yeah.
But even even then, right? Like, you're sitting in this
place of like, Oh my God. I hate attention, but I don't
know. I I hate the center of attention
(13:29):
and I hate having any attention on me.
And Sam's the opposite. Yeah, Her whole family's the
opposite. They're loud.
The loudest one in the the the the table is the one that gets
hurt. And that's totally fine.
That's how it is. Like I that's family.
(13:50):
Yeah, yeah, that's funny. So you have, like, it sounds
like you've navigated conversations by, like kind of
like sitting back, maybe being more quiet, being a little more
anxious or nervous, right. Were you, like deemed as not as
masculine because of that? Or did?
(14:11):
Did you feel like folks judged you for that?
I've never thought of, like, masculinity or me having
masculinity. Like, I grew up, my dad growing,
going to work. So I hung out with my mom and my
mom was cleaning the house. That was just kind of
traditional Mexican household. So, like, I helped my mom
(14:31):
cleaning the dishes or washing or like, I figured we were just
hanging out and as I get older. It seems it's kind of weird for
like a man to be holding a broomor like a man to be washing
dishes. I never realized that until like
I saw someone out like a anotherman washing dishes or my dad
never washing dishes. I never realized that until like
(14:54):
till till I got this age that like I do wash the dishes or the
the the kind of typical like historically like feminine.
Yes, yeah, yeah. So I am.
And my dad never posed like. Masculine traits on me or like
that never happened to me or my dad was never like that.
(15:19):
Yeah, it seems like maybe not sodirectly, right?
Yeah. Yes, kind of in these indirect
ways of him maybe not wanting toengage in some conversations.
So I think that some folks have these social constructs of like
masculinity or feminine need putdirectly on them.
Like, oh, to be a man, you need to do this.
(15:41):
And get to be tough, yeah, the to to be mean or be the
strongest one there. And I think maybe my family that
that just never was. Yeah, Yeah.
You got like more of the undertones of stuff.
Yes. But also there was this piece of
like you being raised by your mom in the home where you just
(16:05):
kind of did your thing with her and there wasn't.
My dad helps. I don't know.
There wasn't. Yeah.
Yes. Do you want to carry that with
you like into parenting of like the helping out around the house
and doing anything that comes your way, regardless of what
historical category it fits in? Masculine.
(16:27):
Feminine. I I think me and Sam are a team.
We're a couple and we have our our strengths and our
weaknesses. Sam hates washing the dishes.
That I understand. I understand.
So I'll do it. That's her week.
Weeks I'm scared of like I don'tknow the dark.
She's she's she's not. That's why I feel like we're
(16:52):
like perfect together. Like the strengths that she has
are my weaknesses and the weaknesses that I have are her
strengths. She's a really smart person of.
Typing stuff, emailing stuff. She can e-mail all day, and I
have one e-mail stresses me out.I hate e-mail and I had to
e-mail you for this. And I was like, man, I've gotta
(17:14):
send an. E-mail.
What e-mail? I get.
It takes me all day and they're like, man, that wasn't so bad.
Why was I worried about it all day?
And for her, she just. Fast, quick.
She can write a description for a house no problem.
And for me, like man, that wouldtake me all week to do so just
like the the the strengths and pros.
(17:36):
So like that's how I look at me raising my kid or or whatever,
whatever the kid. However, you outburst when
you're mad or like what the kid just copies you.
Yes, the kid just copies you. So if you're an example, if
you're reading a book, then the kid most likely is going to want
(17:59):
to open up a book and that can lead to something else.
If he sees you helping people, then maybe the kid will help
like see like help people. Yeah, like model actually
modeling. You see an adult get raged up or
like, get all mad. That's how your kid is going to
get all raged up and like, mad Ithat was me.
(18:20):
When people would confront me, Iwould just like leave the room.
And until like Sam broader, likeyou, your dad does that, then
you do that. Like, Oh my God, I never noticed
that. Oh my God, self-awareness is so
powerful when someone points it out.
Yes, and like and and and one thing is that like you have to
be OK for with that criticism and you can't be like.
(18:45):
Get your feelings hurt. So it's so sensitive about it.
Like let people like criticize you and that's going to help you
so much. Yeah, in the future.
I mean it takes a certain level of like, well, I think that's
where like the vulnerability andtrust in a relationship comes in
where you have to be in this like softer space to be able to
(19:05):
receive something that someone sharing like a feedback.
Yeah, you hear it out. You can have all the feelings
that you want about it. And sometimes those are really
big feelings where it makes you sad, it makes you angry, it
makes you frustrated with the person that you learned it from.
But all of those things, right? Like you can process, you can
(19:27):
work through. And I think when we talk about
more toxic masculinity, right, Like it doesn't allow for a lot
of that soft space to sit there and to have these like open
conversations to have big feelings, but to communicate
them in like a constructive way to offer like repair, like if
(19:53):
you hurt somebody's feelings to go back and.
Be so sensitive. I I didn't realize I was a
sensitive person until I think II don't know who told my sister
or they told me, Oh, my dad's sosensitive.
Like, oh man, like that could beme too.
And like, yeah, like I'm a sensitive guy, but I didn't
realize that was sensitive untilsomeone pointed it out because
(20:16):
someone tells me something and then, like, I don't talk to that
person for a week, A month regardless, Like.
Oh my gosh, I feel like sensitivity, the way that you're
describing it to has so many feelings inside of it.
Cuz when I hear someone say likedon't be sensitive I would be
like. Well, maybe I'm like, mad.
Or maybe I'm actually sad. Or maybe I've hurt from.
(20:36):
What I said. But the sensitivity label is
very big, so I'd be curious in those moments, like to actually
sit with yourself, Like, what amI?
Actually feeling right now, right?
Honestly, maybe maybe there's too much for like, have you ever
had that thing that like, if I just tell this person this, like
(20:58):
it would change their whole life, but you don't tell that
person because it might change your whole relationship.
It might change like the whole it would be mad for you forever.
But that's why you maybe that person doesn't give you room to
like, hey like look like this iswhat you're doing.
It's making everyone upset like,I'm not trying to be a bad
person. I'm just trying to help you or
(21:21):
trying to give you a little bit of criticism to help this whole
situation. And it changes everything.
But if you, if you tell that person, they could take it the
wrong way and they can never talk to you, you can change your
whole relationship. And I want to kind of have space
for for that, for my mom to tellme, for my sisters to tell me,
(21:43):
for my wife to tell me like, hey, you're being a Dick.
And like instead of me start me off like all like, this is
ridiculous. I'm leaving.
Like, OK, like, look like, yeah,like, alright, like, you're
right. It was too loud.
Like or, you know, OK, I'll calmdown or sit with my feelings,
breathe it out or or why was I being loud or how am I being
(22:03):
loud? Yes, that curiosity paid place
of like inviting like, OK, tell me what you're seeing, right.
Like, how are you seeing me be this way or that way?
Yes. Yeah, I I think it's so powerful
that you're you noticed that about you and you're trying to
figure out how to stay in those uncomfortable conversations in a
(22:25):
way that feels okay for you. Yeah, I I kind of want to talk a
little bit about the gym culturethat you've created.
So you've owned your gym for 10 years.
I just started almost a year ago, which is it's time flies.
(22:47):
In July, time flies. I can't believe it's been a year
with you already. I know.
I like. I've honestly enjoyed your gym.
Thank you so much. But you you.
It's you guys. It's you guys.
Thank you. Thank you.
It's you guys. I just from what?
From when you started using likea £15 bar to like now or like
(23:09):
you knowing your way around the gym or like you knowing people
there. That's what like brings me
happiness. Like, not money, like that's
what brings me happiness. Like you talking to other people
or you knowing around the gym. Like, that's what like and I
can't believe it's just been a year.
I know it has been and I was thinking about myself when I
(23:30):
first started and yeah, the. Feelings coming into the gym.
OK, so here was my thoughts, right?
Like, I came into the gym after I had like a senior Instagram
and I saw some, like, pride flags.
I saw a Black Lives Matter flag that was like, in one of the
videos. And I was like, OK, let me go
(23:50):
into this gym. It seemed kind of CrossFit base.
And I was like, oh, I don't know.
This seems intimidating. All the masculinity, I don't
know. And you know, I feel fairly
confident moving my body, but I think just entering a gym as a
woman has made me feel before very uncomfortable.
(24:12):
So I was like, I'm going to takethis risk.
I'm going to go and I went and Imet you, You were super open.
I think that's why I feel so comfortable.
Kind of like getting my bar set up or like putting the weights
on because you allowed me to like ask questions and.
You took this perspective of teaching in like a really
(24:34):
empowering way that didn't make me feel like, oh gosh, I know
nothing. And it's so obvious and I'm
being judged for it or criticized.
So I think the gym culture you've created has really been
inviting in that way. And I will ask you any question
now I will like. Thank you.
Thank you. That's all that that's all I
(24:54):
want like and just sometimes I still like I want to put a a box
for like. I'm just too scared to like put
a box for you guys to criticize,not criticize, but suggestions.
Oh, like feedback, feedback. It just I can't deal with it
still. I can't deal with that still.
See, but you're learning. This whole time we've been
talking about how you're like, yes.
(25:16):
Trying to receive feedback in a new way?
Yes. So maybe that's like a goal for
the future. For the future.
One day you'll have a suggestions box.
What do you worry that people are going to say Every everyone
there? There's always better things
that I could be doing at the gym, but like, it just sometimes
(25:36):
isn't feasible. Sometimes it just isn't
feasible. Yeah.
Ooh, I instantly thought about parenting.
Can I tell you why? Tell me.
Tell me. Because you were talking about
how you just want to love your kid unconditionally and.
Like maybe those, like, financial pieces you just can't.
(25:56):
But if you could just love somebody and like, support them,
that would be everything that. I feel like that translates
exactly the gym, where it's likeyou're creating this environment
that feels so welcoming. People talk, you know, like you
walk into the gym, you see folkslike chatting with you or
chatting with each other. You'll get, like, I've gotten a
(26:18):
few Instagram requests, right? Like people want to build a
community there. And so maybe you don't have like
the financial pieces that are going to make it quote UN quote
better however you want them to be, but you're like loving us
unconditionally. Yeah, they're like.
Supporting us in creating community with you.
Yes. Yeah, Yes.
(26:40):
Sort of like parents. Yeah, nice.
Mind blown. Mind blown.
Oh my God. Also like, who's going to be
riding on the suggestion box? Like I want expensive stuff.
(27:01):
I just don't know the credit or the the suggestion by I don't
know what it can. This gym sucks.
I what? Who wrote this?
Also, like that's not a suggestion.
That's funny. Yeah.
So for you, that feedback piece is so important to like have
(27:21):
some sort of gentleness. I think going back to the
encouragement piece, you're all about high fives after a
workout. What do you say?
You say high five your partner. That's what you always say.
And like, I try to tell you, like great coaching, right?
I really appreciate it because it's hard.
(27:42):
It's harder like you throw, you're throwing.
And I feel like it's an event every class and I want everyone
to have a good time and have like hit their goals.
So maybe you telling me that like Oh yeah, like thank you
(28:02):
Liv. And thank you so much because
like I I tried. It's not that like I go in there
like all right guys do whatever you guys want.
Like no, I I give them my all too to like help you guys reach
your guys's goals or do your best in that class.
So it's not just it's not easy and I think this is the first
time I like tells like no, it's not easy being a coach or it's
(28:22):
not easy running a class. And I feel like maybe, yeah,
that that's how I feel. Yeah, I mean, there's so much
that goes into just keeping the gym, like, honestly tidy.
There's so much stuff in the gymthat if it's not cleaned up,
(28:45):
it's like everywhere at the end of the class there's like so
much gear out, gear dust. There's always something broken
or something that needs to be fixed and I feel I do a great
job of doing that so you guys won't notice it or I try to do
that. Yeah.
(29:06):
No, you do a great job. You make it very comfortable.
I think that you make it very accessible for folks.
I love that. You know, one day your workout
partner would be like. I'm thinking of someone that's
like fairly young at the gym, I think, I think she's in fifth
grade or something, And then somebody else who's like in
(29:27):
their older adulthood, right, doing a different version of a
workout. So I love that you make it
accessible in so many ways and it's just been so welcoming and
really does. What's your motto?
It's not a gym. It's it's a community.
Yes, it really does feel like that.
(29:50):
So I I'm just glad to be there. No, thank you.
Thank you for giving us a chanceand you coming in.
It's it's so nice that I've met you.
Yeah, I I'm glad to invite you too.
And I think all of the things that you're doing at the gym, to
me, right from my perspective ofnavigating this world as a
(30:11):
woman, feel like breaking down that like historically
masculine. Like toxic masculine energy
that's at the gyms. And so I thought this would be
totally fun podcast to just talkwith you about how those things
all kind of come together of like you working in A and like
(30:32):
owning a business in a historically like toxic
masculine business. But breaking down some of those,
I guess I'll call them like values or like like stereotypes
or. That's the word I was looking
for. Exactly.
Breaking down those stereotypes and then how that mixed with you
(30:54):
being a father, it just seems soconnected by that piece of
masculinity. So thank you for being here.
Oh, thank you. So before we say goodbye, I want
to bring you to a wonderful gym right down the street from us.
We've talked a lot about Highland Park training today.
Please go check them out. Talk to Jose, maybe even try out
(31:16):
a class and see what you think. Also, if you are looking to add
some wholesome fatherhood content to your social media
feed, please check out the Dad Vibes on Instagram.
It's the period Dad period vibes.
This account is run by a father who uses different quotes or
(31:37):
tips and even. Episode clips from his very own
podcast to talk about parenting without shaming your child.
Topics like staying present withyour own emotions while
parenting, and there's even somestuff about reevaluating
expectations placed on children.So that's all for us today.
(32:01):
Thank you for joining us and thank you again to Jose for
being the 1st guest. On our podcast.
It's been really great, so we'llsee you next time when we're out
of session.
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