January 2, 2023 • 19 mins
In this episode, co-founders Kaitlin and Paul Kindman sit down with Care Coordinator Amanda to share the origins of Kindman & Co., a therapy practice rooted in social justice and relational approaches. They discuss the challenges and triumphs of building a practice that prioritizes inclusivity, community, and a commitment to mental health liberation.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Hi, my name is Kaitlyn in my name's Paul, and we're out of
session with kind of Manco a feelings forward podcast where
we leave our therapists elves atthe door and have messy.
Real conversations about being human for our very first
episode, we sat down with our super awesome care coordinator.
(00:22):
Amanda lamb to answer some questions about how and why we
started climbing, and Co, and why social justice?
Focused relational therapy is the approach that we take and
just how important it is to be messy humans.
First inside the therapy room and out.
He did tell me a little bit about yourself just like start
(00:45):
with you. My name.
What you do here? What is this practice about?
Sure. Do you wanna go for search?
No biggest start. My name is Paul he/him pronouns.
I Am The Clinical Director and Iguess I'm also co-founder exacts
(01:10):
a CFO. I guess I went a lot of I'm a
therapist. Clinical supervisor, I'm
wheezy's, dog. Parent, Co cooked on.
Thank you for co-parent. Dog co-parent.
Yeah, I'm sorry. What was the other part of the
(01:33):
question already? It's just, that's it.
I didn't know. I'm also kind of in also,
co-founder co co founder. I'm the CEO and And practice
(01:59):
director. So that means I do a little bit
more of the administration kind of running behind the scenes,
making the practice happen with the much appreciated support of
Amanda. I am also a jog, co-parent and
(02:20):
co-parent of for forgotten cats when else I'm also a clinical
supervisor For visor here. Yeah, I think we both wear a lot
of hats. Yeah, yeah.
Thanks fishy. Can you tell me more about just
(02:42):
how did all this side to start? Come in and go?
What was that process? How did we decide to start kinda
nice out? So I think we decided to start
kind of going to go on our firstdate, looking great.
Certain certainly in theory. Yeah, right.
Not so much in practice, but I think we the original impetus
(03:06):
for kind of encode was. I think us both being therapist
and starting to date and kind ofimagining what it could be like
to have our own practice. We both come from Community
Mental Health Agency, work. Shout out to the relational
Center and So deeply value doingtaxes.
(03:32):
He sure is we so deeply value, social justice access to care
groups, writing some of the things that are were accustomed
to in Community Mental Health. While also value exists, a
nobility of clinicians. And so, I think that is kind of
(03:54):
what we set out to do by openingour practice was Was to try to
marry those two pieces and providing really like informed
by social. Justice therapy is a huge part
of what we do while also wantingto support our clinicians to
(04:17):
have boundaries and a work-life balance and that's something
that can be hard to find an agency work.
So what would you add? Yeah, yeah.
You did A really lovely job of describing why we're doing this.
I mean we really want the world to be maybe just a smidge
(04:41):
better. Ideally a whole lot better.
I think it can be a lot better. There's a lot that's really
messed up about the systems in our society.
And I think working in CommunityMental Health, we really came up
against some of these larger systems.
And so, you know, we want to do our part by creating some
(05:03):
systems right by creating a company, by creating a an
organization, we set out to likedo our part to sort of to make
some change, right? And and things that through the
way that we engage with our clients through the way that we
engage with our co-workers here,we're hoping to make an impact
(05:25):
that ripples out. Yeah, I see that.
That's also why I applied because I like, I see it.
Yes. If you were to like, describe
come in and CO2, someone who hasn't ever heard of it.
How did you describe it? That's a good question.
The Tuffy, the elevator pitch, we are.
(05:48):
I will just say, for myself, I am not a concise person and my
elevator pitch. I will say that neither couple
like a high Ice building. So you want to take this one.
So yeah, sure. I would say it's therapy for
Being Human. Good Lena.
(06:11):
Thanks. Where we we essentially, we
strive to practice therapy. Give therapy in the most human
way. Double most human way, that we
know how which is biting leadingwith our own Humanity, our own
(06:34):
imperfection or messiness or ownbeing impacted world.
Yeah, I would add to that, making our journey in the
elevator of little longer that Ithink it just kind of
summarizing what Paul was sayingearlier that part of what sets
(06:56):
us apart from maybe other Private Practice.
Chiropractic has is are the social justice Focus right that
we're constantly thinking about what it means to be an
individual in relationship and Community.
And looking at the ways that society and culture shape us and
(07:20):
systems of Oppression, and that's a huge part of who we
are. And what we support our clients
to do. We'll work on a shorter version,
good luck. Yeah.
When you started then what wouldyou say?
(07:42):
Was like one of the hardest things for like something like
struggled with hmm like growing this company and starting this
company. Hmm.
I mean I think there are a number of things for me
certainly initially it was like taking the leap.
I don't come from a family that are like just have started
(08:06):
businesses or any kind of entrepreneurial stuff.
I mean my my entire career, I worked in the nonprofit sector
since since graduating from college.
So I think for me it was sort ofgetting up the courage and being
supported. You know, by my partner in order
to take a leap I think was was abig hurdle, was a big Challenge
(08:31):
and I know I don't think I couldhave done this without you.
I am a natural-born leader and entrepreneur.
I think my parents and Paul would tell you so that part is
pretty easy. I was happy to be a support.
I think I've always been like what I'm going to do something
(08:54):
someday you're just always had that feeling about myself.
I think the the hardest part wastrying to figure out who we are
in the World, right. And there's a lot of therapists
in Los Angeles and in a lot of ways, we all do the same thing
or some version of the same thing and in a lot of ways, it's
(09:19):
very different. And so over the years I think
we've learned with a lot more clarity.
I like who we are as business owners and with all of those
hats that we mentioned, right? Like different kinds of
leadership. The rules but also like who our
clients are right and we've gotten really clear on the kind
(09:42):
of client who loves working hereand webs working with a
therapist that we have. And so I think that has been an
initial challenge but has been really exciting to to watch and
we get to enjoy being in community with.
So many like-minded people who are also passionate about making
(10:03):
the world better. I think you touched on it this
responding. So like yeah, The Show Goes that
artists also positive and be great positive.
But what are some of your favorite Parts like just being
co-founders of a practicing thisThe first thing that comes to
(10:23):
mind is getting to meet so many incredible, blossoming
therapist. Every time we have a round of
hiring, I think back to when I was in the opposite chair, the
opposite screen or not, however,were doing it and we come into
(10:43):
contact with so many inspired excited helpers, right?
Who are so committed to Spendingtheir lives, helping other
people and making the world better and it is so rare to feel
excited to go to work. And I can say I'm so grateful
(11:05):
that like I love coming here andgetting to hang out with all of
you right and all of our fabulous team and what a
treasure that is You can't use that one.
It seems like I was going to sayis, I mean, we do the best team
and it's, I'm genuinely, I'm so with you, I mean it's not a
(11:28):
competition but we do. We do that.
It's going to work with you. That's my favorite.
Sometimes. Yeah.
Yeah, there's so many, so many things I love about about
(11:51):
running kind of think. Oh, absolutely the team.
Absolutely make client side. I love to get to.
It's such a privilege to get to do the work that we do and get
to lead with our own Humanity. I get to show up as me.
I don't have to we're talking about wearing different hats,
But it's not like wearing masks like I wear the hat of a
(12:14):
therapist. I show up being curious and
interested about other people's experience, but I get to do
that. As me, I get to have meaningful
impactful conversations day in and day out with people who
share my values. Think that's, that's really
meaningful to me and I get to dothat with Weezy here and I get
(12:35):
to do that surrounded in a beautiful office.
Yeah. And A wonderful neighborhood and
surrounded by incredible people.Yeah, and I wholeheartedly agree
and I think the other thing I would add is that it's really
not being practice, co-founders and business owners, we do get
(12:57):
to to have a say in front of what it looks like to practice
therapy here. And one of the things that is so
joyful and For me is to show people especially people have
actually been to therapy before that therapy can look like this,
(13:18):
right? It doesn't have to be that blank
slate for you and shit where youlike lay on the couch and you
barely make eye contact with your therapist and they're like
hiding behind a notepad. But it can really be this this
human to Human Experience that like through relationships
through. Walking up alongside each other,
right? Me as a therapist, I don't have
(13:38):
to be an expert. Hurt, but I can just be like a
traveler great. Like, I'm the fella.
Yeah, fellow traveler joining with you and we're exploring the
experience of being human and all of its messy and beautiful
and painful ways. And I think one of the most
(13:59):
exciting things for me to hear is when we have a client who's
new come and say, like this is the place I've been looking for.
Like I didn't know that there were It's who are real like this
on a similar. Vein, the folks here and we both
practice like relational baby but it does kind of look nearing
(14:21):
that human is. So like how would you explain
what really shown therapy is andhow that translates into your
work? That's a great question and
consistently hard to answer for me.
I'm like, it's like me doing this being myself.
(14:41):
How would you describe what relational therapy is?
Well yeah I think there's there's it is really complex and
there's a number of different ways to come at it in essence.
I think, you know, it's It's therapy that privileges the
human relationship above everything else.
(15:03):
So right, when we come to therapy, we talk.
We often talk about some of the most meaningful and important
and sometimes trivial things in our, what TV shows are you
watching. But as relational therapist we
privilege and focus on building as as real and robust a
(15:32):
relationship as humanly possible, With our clients,
which means that we are going tobe impacted by our clients,
right? We get to hear about our clients
greatest challenges and greatestsuccesses and, and by coming
into contact with them, we changed it.
(15:52):
And so as relational therapists,we lead with that, we lead with
the way in which were impacted. I think we're Essentially really
shock therapy as Reckoning Q, Boehner or a practice right for
way, exploring ways to be in relationship with others.
(16:14):
But that doesn't mean that the relationship that I have with my
clients. Paul has with it with his client
is any less authentic or true orcaring, right?
Like I I tell my clients that I love And I genuinely mean it and
(16:38):
so it's like a space where we leaved with what's happening
between you. And I of course we're exploring
your stories and your experiences and but we do that
by coming back to the place thathappens between you and me,
right? And like, what is it like to
hear me say that I care about you, can we stay in that present
(16:59):
moment to get there. So we're kind of always coming
back to the Here. And Now, Oh and experience of
being in connection moving. Ships are important?
Exactly, they're essential. All right, who are we as humans?
If we are not in relationship, hope you enjoyed learning about
why we started climbing and Company and getting an inside,
(17:21):
look into our own messiness. Before we get into our outro,
we'd like to give a special shout-out to of our incredible
team members Amanda and Danny. Who have literally made this
podcast possible. Thank you so much.
(17:42):
And instead of a brought to you by sponsorship segment will be
ending our episodes with a community highlight where we
bring you to a local organization or business.
We think you should know about and a social media account, you
should check out to help decolonize your feed.
Today we're bringing you to the relational Center place.
(18:05):
We talked about earlier in this conversation, the relational
Center provides mental health and wellness services to
marginalized individuals, and Los Angeles and exists to
promote the essential importanceof relationships.
Tira see also trains and develops, incredible therapists
and leaders. This world needs more and more,
(18:29):
you can learn more about the wide array of services.
They provide for our community at www.recreation.gov
center.org. And a shout-out to at inclusive
therapists a fabulous therapist directory that vets therapist to
ensure they are including socialjustice in their therapeutic
(18:50):
approach and taking steps to decolonize the mental health
field. They also just launched a bipod
mental health, fund to increase access to therapy.
Check them out. See you next time when we're out
of session, And a shout-out to at inclusive therapists a
fabulous therapist directory that vets therapist to ensure
they are including social justice in their therapeutic
approach and taking steps to decolonize the mental health
field. They also just launched a bipod
mental health, fund to increase access to therapy.
Check them out. See you next time when we're out
of session,
Hi, my name is Kaitlyn in my name's Paul, and we're out of
session with kind of Manco a feelings forward podcast where
we leave our therapists elves atthe door and have messy.
Real conversations about being human for our very first
episode, we sat down with our super awesome care coordinator.
(00:22):
Amanda lamb to answer some questions about how and why we
started climbing, and Co, and why social justice?
Focused relational therapy is the approach that we take and
just how important it is to be messy humans.
First inside the therapy room and out.
He did tell me a little bit about yourself just like start
(00:45):
with you. My name.
What you do here? What is this practice about?
Sure. Do you wanna go for search?
No biggest start. My name is Paul he/him pronouns.
I Am The Clinical Director and Iguess I'm also co-founder exacts
(01:10):
a CFO. I guess I went a lot of I'm a
therapist. Clinical supervisor, I'm
wheezy's, dog. Parent, Co cooked on.
Thank you for co-parent. Dog co-parent.
Yeah, I'm sorry. What was the other part of the
(01:33):
question already? It's just, that's it.
I didn't know. I'm also kind of in also,
co-founder co co founder. I'm the CEO and And practice
(01:59):
director. So that means I do a little bit
more of the administration kind of running behind the scenes,
making the practice happen with the much appreciated support of
Amanda. I am also a jog, co-parent and
(02:20):
co-parent of for forgotten cats when else I'm also a clinical
supervisor For visor here. Yeah, I think we both wear a lot
of hats. Yeah, yeah.
Thanks fishy. Can you tell me more about just
(02:42):
how did all this side to start? Come in and go?
What was that process? How did we decide to start kinda
nice out? So I think we decided to start
kind of going to go on our firstdate, looking great.
Certain certainly in theory. Yeah, right.
Not so much in practice, but I think we the original impetus
(03:06):
for kind of encode was. I think us both being therapist
and starting to date and kind ofimagining what it could be like
to have our own practice. We both come from Community
Mental Health Agency, work. Shout out to the relational
Center and So deeply value doingtaxes.
(03:32):
He sure is we so deeply value, social justice access to care
groups, writing some of the things that are were accustomed
to in Community Mental Health. While also value exists, a
nobility of clinicians. And so, I think that is kind of
(03:54):
what we set out to do by openingour practice was Was to try to
marry those two pieces and providing really like informed
by social. Justice therapy is a huge part
of what we do while also wantingto support our clinicians to
(04:17):
have boundaries and a work-life balance and that's something
that can be hard to find an agency work.
So what would you add? Yeah, yeah.
You did A really lovely job of describing why we're doing this.
I mean we really want the world to be maybe just a smidge
(04:41):
better. Ideally a whole lot better.
I think it can be a lot better. There's a lot that's really
messed up about the systems in our society.
And I think working in CommunityMental Health, we really came up
against some of these larger systems.
And so, you know, we want to do our part by creating some
(05:03):
systems right by creating a company, by creating a an
organization, we set out to likedo our part to sort of to make
some change, right? And and things that through the
way that we engage with our clients through the way that we
engage with our co-workers here,we're hoping to make an impact
(05:25):
that ripples out. Yeah, I see that.
That's also why I applied because I like, I see it.
Yes. If you were to like, describe
come in and CO2, someone who hasn't ever heard of it.
How did you describe it? That's a good question.
The Tuffy, the elevator pitch, we are.
(05:48):
I will just say, for myself, I am not a concise person and my
elevator pitch. I will say that neither couple
like a high Ice building. So you want to take this one.
So yeah, sure. I would say it's therapy for
Being Human. Good Lena.
(06:11):
Thanks. Where we we essentially, we
strive to practice therapy. Give therapy in the most human
way. Double most human way, that we
know how which is biting leadingwith our own Humanity, our own
(06:34):
imperfection or messiness or ownbeing impacted world.
Yeah, I would add to that, making our journey in the
elevator of little longer that Ithink it just kind of
summarizing what Paul was sayingearlier that part of what sets
(06:56):
us apart from maybe other Private Practice.
Chiropractic has is are the social justice Focus right that
we're constantly thinking about what it means to be an
individual in relationship and Community.
And looking at the ways that society and culture shape us and
(07:20):
systems of Oppression, and that's a huge part of who we
are. And what we support our clients
to do. We'll work on a shorter version,
good luck. Yeah.
When you started then what wouldyou say?
(07:42):
Was like one of the hardest things for like something like
struggled with hmm like growing this company and starting this
company. Hmm.
I mean I think there are a number of things for me
certainly initially it was like taking the leap.
I don't come from a family that are like just have started
(08:06):
businesses or any kind of entrepreneurial stuff.
I mean my my entire career, I worked in the nonprofit sector
since since graduating from college.
So I think for me it was sort ofgetting up the courage and being
supported. You know, by my partner in order
to take a leap I think was was abig hurdle, was a big Challenge
(08:31):
and I know I don't think I couldhave done this without you.
I am a natural-born leader and entrepreneur.
I think my parents and Paul would tell you so that part is
pretty easy. I was happy to be a support.
I think I've always been like what I'm going to do something
(08:54):
someday you're just always had that feeling about myself.
I think the the hardest part wastrying to figure out who we are
in the World, right. And there's a lot of therapists
in Los Angeles and in a lot of ways, we all do the same thing
or some version of the same thing and in a lot of ways, it's
(09:19):
very different. And so over the years I think
we've learned with a lot more clarity.
I like who we are as business owners and with all of those
hats that we mentioned, right? Like different kinds of
leadership. The rules but also like who our
clients are right and we've gotten really clear on the kind
(09:42):
of client who loves working hereand webs working with a
therapist that we have. And so I think that has been an
initial challenge but has been really exciting to to watch and
we get to enjoy being in community with.
So many like-minded people who are also passionate about making
(10:03):
the world better. I think you touched on it this
responding. So like yeah, The Show Goes that
artists also positive and be great positive.
But what are some of your favorite Parts like just being
co-founders of a practicing thisThe first thing that comes to
(10:23):
mind is getting to meet so many incredible, blossoming
therapist. Every time we have a round of
hiring, I think back to when I was in the opposite chair, the
opposite screen or not, however,were doing it and we come into
(10:43):
contact with so many inspired excited helpers, right?
Who are so committed to Spendingtheir lives, helping other
people and making the world better and it is so rare to feel
excited to go to work. And I can say I'm so grateful
(11:05):
that like I love coming here andgetting to hang out with all of
you right and all of our fabulous team and what a
treasure that is You can't use that one.
It seems like I was going to sayis, I mean, we do the best team
and it's, I'm genuinely, I'm so with you, I mean it's not a
(11:28):
competition but we do. We do that.
It's going to work with you. That's my favorite.
Sometimes. Yeah.
Yeah, there's so many, so many things I love about about
(11:51):
running kind of think. Oh, absolutely the team.
Absolutely make client side. I love to get to.
It's such a privilege to get to do the work that we do and get
to lead with our own Humanity. I get to show up as me.
I don't have to we're talking about wearing different hats,
But it's not like wearing masks like I wear the hat of a
(12:14):
therapist. I show up being curious and
interested about other people's experience, but I get to do
that. As me, I get to have meaningful
impactful conversations day in and day out with people who
share my values. Think that's, that's really
meaningful to me and I get to dothat with Weezy here and I get
(12:35):
to do that surrounded in a beautiful office.
Yeah. And A wonderful neighborhood and
surrounded by incredible people.Yeah, and I wholeheartedly agree
and I think the other thing I would add is that it's really
not being practice, co-founders and business owners, we do get
(12:57):
to to have a say in front of what it looks like to practice
therapy here. And one of the things that is so
joyful and For me is to show people especially people have
actually been to therapy before that therapy can look like this,
(13:18):
right? It doesn't have to be that blank
slate for you and shit where youlike lay on the couch and you
barely make eye contact with your therapist and they're like
hiding behind a notepad. But it can really be this this
human to Human Experience that like through relationships
through. Walking up alongside each other,
right? Me as a therapist, I don't have
(13:38):
to be an expert. Hurt, but I can just be like a
traveler great. Like, I'm the fella.
Yeah, fellow traveler joining with you and we're exploring the
experience of being human and all of its messy and beautiful
and painful ways. And I think one of the most
(13:59):
exciting things for me to hear is when we have a client who's
new come and say, like this is the place I've been looking for.
Like I didn't know that there were It's who are real like this
on a similar. Vein, the folks here and we both
practice like relational baby but it does kind of look nearing
(14:21):
that human is. So like how would you explain
what really shown therapy is andhow that translates into your
work? That's a great question and
consistently hard to answer for me.
I'm like, it's like me doing this being myself.
(14:41):
How would you describe what relational therapy is?
Well yeah I think there's there's it is really complex and
there's a number of different ways to come at it in essence.
I think, you know, it's It's therapy that privileges the
human relationship above everything else.
(15:03):
So right, when we come to therapy, we talk.
We often talk about some of the most meaningful and important
and sometimes trivial things in our, what TV shows are you
watching. But as relational therapist we
privilege and focus on building as as real and robust a
(15:32):
relationship as humanly possible, With our clients,
which means that we are going tobe impacted by our clients,
right? We get to hear about our clients
greatest challenges and greatestsuccesses and, and by coming
into contact with them, we changed it.
(15:52):
And so as relational therapists,we lead with that, we lead with
the way in which were impacted. I think we're Essentially really
shock therapy as Reckoning Q, Boehner or a practice right for
way, exploring ways to be in relationship with others.
(16:14):
But that doesn't mean that the relationship that I have with my
clients. Paul has with it with his client
is any less authentic or true orcaring, right?
Like I I tell my clients that I love And I genuinely mean it and
(16:38):
so it's like a space where we leaved with what's happening
between you. And I of course we're exploring
your stories and your experiences and but we do that
by coming back to the place thathappens between you and me,
right? And like, what is it like to
hear me say that I care about you, can we stay in that present
(16:59):
moment to get there. So we're kind of always coming
back to the Here. And Now, Oh and experience of
being in connection moving. Ships are important?
Exactly, they're essential. All right, who are we as humans?
If we are not in relationship, hope you enjoyed learning about
why we started climbing and Company and getting an inside,
(17:21):
look into our own messiness. Before we get into our outro,
we'd like to give a special shout-out to of our incredible
team members Amanda and Danny. Who have literally made this
podcast possible. Thank you so much.
(17:42):
And instead of a brought to you by sponsorship segment will be
ending our episodes with a community highlight where we
bring you to a local organization or business.
We think you should know about and a social media account, you
should check out to help decolonize your feed.
Today we're bringing you to the relational Center place.
(18:05):
We talked about earlier in this conversation, the relational
Center provides mental health and wellness services to
marginalized individuals, and Los Angeles and exists to
promote the essential importanceof relationships.
Tira see also trains and develops, incredible therapists
and leaders. This world needs more and more,
(18:29):
you can learn more about the wide array of services.
They provide for our community at www.recreation.gov
center.org. And a shout-out to at inclusive
therapists a fabulous therapist directory that vets therapist to
ensure they are including socialjustice in their therapeutic
(18:50):
approach and taking steps to decolonize the mental health
field. They also just launched a bipod
mental health, fund to increase access to therapy.
Check them out. See you next time when we're out
of session, And a shout-out to at inclusive therapists a
fabulous therapist directory that vets therapist to ensure
they are including social justice in their therapeutic
approach and taking steps to decolonize the mental health
field. They also just launched a bipod
mental health, fund to increase access to therapy.
Check them out. See you next time when we're out
of session,
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Therapy Gecko
An unlicensed lizard psychologist travels the universe talking to strangers about absolutely nothing. TO CALL THE GECKO: follow me on https://www.twitch.tv/lyleforever to get a notification for when I am taking calls. I am usually live Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays but lately a lot of other times too. I am a gecko.