This week fitness mogul and influencer, Tammy Hembrow, has been on a press tour for her new book, Show Up. While she’s been grilled about that Kardashian incident and rejected claims she got bum implants – all anyone can talk about is her recent social media activity.
A Melbourne micro influencer called Yasmin, has slammed Melbourne fashion label, Bye Bambi for not inviting her on its brand trip to Coachella. Yasmin, who was the face of the brand’s 5th birthday bash, reveals she only received a voucher in exchange for the collaboration.
Madison Woolley’s apartment hunting is finally over. The influencer announced she’s just bought her dream apartment before jetting off to New Zealand.
AND TikTok has a new label to categorise women and it’s called the ‘Candid Girlfriend.’
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
Coming up on today's show, Tammy Hembro and Matt Sakowski's
bizarre social media behavior, the Melbourne micro influencers slams of
fashion brand for not inviting her to Coachella, and the
Candid Girlfriend is going viral. Hello and welcome to Outspoken.
It's your dose of the hottest influencer and pop culture
(00:26):
news twice a week. I'm Kate Torbert and Sophie. It's
just you and me on the mics. Today. Amy does
make a special appearance for the seconds. Yeah she's too
busy for us today, Yeah she is. She is very
busy with PR work, so we thought we would get
it done together. I mean, Amy and I did do
the subs episode, So who is the real MVP at
the moment. Well, I have been sick for the past
(00:46):
three days and I've been recording remotely, which is really
reminding me of COVID days.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
I don't like it very much. It is so dark
in my room at the moment. It's getting so cold.
I hate the winter seems to be upon us, and
Daylight's say over as well, which really officially makes it
the worst time of the year.
Speaker 1 (01:04):
The first week when it switches over is always so depressing.
The first day is kind of okay because you feel
like you're winning, you've had a little bit more of
a sleep in, but then as soon as it gets dark,
it really hits you and you're like, not this again.
It just seems to be bizarre because it's clocked over
to officially be a month since my wedding, and to think,
the only four weeks ago.
Speaker 2 (01:24):
It was forty degrees, it was bright, it was sunny outside.
It's crazy how the weather can turn in such a
short period of time. I do kind of secretly love
it because I feel like we are in our boring
married couple era at the moment, because we have booked
ourselves in with our partners for a quiz night at
a pub.
Speaker 1 (01:43):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:43):
I can't wait. There is nothing better than doing a
quiz night. I'm not that confident how good we will
be at it, though, because I think the three of
us only really bring pop culture knowledge, maybe a bit
of general news knowledge to it, but we're not very
good at the other top. So I know that my partner,
he's very good at sports and also, strangely enough, geography
(02:05):
and history. We actually did a bit of prep last
night and whenever we go to family dinner at his parents' house,
we do the Sunday quiz, but I never know any
of the answers because I feel like it's very targeted
towards a certain demographic. Oh definitely always in those quizzes.
I do them with Brandon's family as well, and I
will always be asked the celebrity and pop culture questions.
(02:26):
And I love it because They're always like, how the
fuck did you know that? And I'm like, well, how
did you guys know? The other stuff?
Speaker 3 (02:31):
I have no idea are the court I feel taken
advantage of because I feel like they knew how much
I loved the brand.
Speaker 4 (02:40):
They knew I would do anything for them. They know
I fucking die for them.
Speaker 1 (02:43):
A Melbourne micro influencer called Yasmin has slammed Melbourne fashion
label by Bambi for not inviting her on its brand
trip to Coachella. Yasmin, who was the face of the
brand's fifth birthday bash, revealed she only received a voucher
in exchange for the collaboration. So before we get into it,
can you tell us more about this fashion label because
(03:04):
I am not familiar with it.
Speaker 2 (03:05):
Look, I know they're having a tough week after being
called out, and I don't really want to add to it,
but I do want our listeners to go and look
up this brand because a brand has never made me
feel so old. These clothes look like costumes to me.
The clothes have this really early two thousands field. There's
lots of ruffles and bows and corsets and metallicky sort
of material. It's definitely not my cup of tea. But
(03:27):
I am not the target demographic for this brand now.
It is a Melbourne fashion label created by Andy Short
and the brand has over eighty eight thousand followers on
Instagram and describes itself as a slow fashion label which
prioritizes organic, recycled fabrics. That surprised me because, if anything
to me, it had that sort of cheap, fast fashion
vibe to it.
Speaker 1 (03:48):
Yeah, and as we mentioned in the intro, the brand
actually celebrated its fifth birthday in November with an influencer
event and Yasmin was at the center of it. So
she has one hundred and third twenty two thousand followers
on TikTok and sixteen point nine thousand on Instagram and
she was the face of the brand's birthday celebrations, so
she appeared in marketing collateral and hosted the event's pink carpet.
(04:12):
Now fast forward five months and by Bambi has launched
a pop up store in LA to dress influences for Coachella,
and Yasmin is pissed because she hasn't been invited on
this trip. Yeah, and she has posted a five minute
ran to her TikTok slamming the brand for not inviting
her on its LA trip, and she's also alleged that
the brand took advantage of her. The video has since
(04:35):
been deleted, but someone's screen recorded it before it went down.
Here's a snippet of what she said.
Speaker 4 (04:42):
I feel taken advantage of That is how I feel.
Speaker 3 (04:44):
I say as well, like this has nothing to do
with the girls that are on the trip with them
right now. Like also, gophy, you fucking love that you're invited,
Like you have every right to go, Like this is
not about them. Lot of people keep asking me like
like why aren't you there, like all of this shit,
like and I don't fucking know why I'm not there.
Speaker 4 (05:00):
I don't know why I'm not there.
Speaker 3 (05:01):
I feel like I went above and beyond for this brand.
All the campaigning I did for them, I did. I
promoted the shoot out of their products for free, like
they gave me the products, but like I still raged
about them, and.
Speaker 4 (05:12):
I wore them, and I did like a ten hour
shoot with them. I had meetings with them.
Speaker 3 (05:17):
I was the face of their fifth birthday campaign. Like
my face was plastered on walls. I was on billboards
on travels Street. I hosted an event for two hours
and I did that all for free. Yeah, I got
a voucher in exchange for doing that.
Speaker 1 (05:30):
She went on to say that she signed a contract
with the brand and knew what she was getting herself into,
but thought the free work she did my opener up
to further opportunities with the brand. She also said she
went above and beyond for the brand and essentially got
nothing back. Here's what Yasmin said about not being invited
on the Troop.
Speaker 4 (05:49):
People ask me, like, I hope you got invited, babe,
I didn't get any invite. Don't get me wrong.
Speaker 3 (05:54):
They have every right they of course, they can choose
who represents their brand and who comes to these events
and who they send overseas.
Speaker 4 (06:02):
That like when you just do so.
Speaker 3 (06:04):
Much for someone or something you just feel like you're
gonna get Like I just felt like I was creating
a relationship.
Speaker 2 (06:13):
I find it really interesting that Yasmin says that she
got nothing back, because if you look at her follow
account in the scheme of things, she is pretty small
fry in the influencer world. While she does have over
one hundred thousand followers on TikTok, she only has sixteen
thousand on Instagram, and for someone with that sort of following,
it is quite a big deal to be asked to
(06:34):
be the face of a brand, however small this brand is,
and not only was her content shared across by Bambie's account,
but she was also featured on a billboard in Chapel Street.
So she knew that by collaborating with this brand, she
was going to open herself up to a whole new
lot of followers and that's why she did it. So
while she wasn't being paid money, the exchange for her
(06:56):
was the exposure and the free products.
Speaker 1 (06:58):
And it is interesting that she meant that she signed
a contract, because if that hadn't been brought up, I
would have thought, wow, she did get screwed over. However,
it seems like the brand clearly stipulated what the deal
was and that she signed off on it, so they
can't really control her expectations outside of what was written
in the contract.
Speaker 2 (07:18):
Yeah, and that's the thing. I do think that influencers
should be paid for their time, particularly when they are
doing things like ten hour shoots. However, as you say, Kate,
that is the contract that she agreed to, and to
me it just sounds like quite a common contray deal
in the influencer space, where she was provided exposure and
clothes in exchange for her time.
Speaker 1 (07:37):
I feel a bit sorry for her though, because she
obviously thought if I do what the brand wants me
to do down the track, they.
Speaker 2 (07:44):
Will reward me.
Speaker 1 (07:45):
I get that, but it's quite possible that her involvement
in this fifth Birthday party wasn't successful for the brand.
They might have measured their return on investment in using
her and was like, h Okay, she didn't really work
with what we were trying to do. We actually need
to get bigger influences involved and potentially pay them.
Speaker 2 (08:03):
I do think they use the birthday collaboration as an
experiment to see if they wanted to work with her again,
and in this ranch she put screenshots up showing that
she had shared about twenty five reels promoting the brand.
But I did notice when I went to have a
closer look at it that the light count was hidden
on all of the posts, which generally is a bit
of a red flag that maybe that post didn't perform well.
(08:25):
It does shock me how many influencers hide their light count,
particularly when they share a branded post, because I'm like,
you clearly have something to hide. Yeah, it is always
a bit fishy. Going back to this contract, though, I
definitely think more negotiations should have taken place and more
pushback if she wasn't happy receiving a vouch she in
return for all of that work she did. I did
(08:46):
notice that she's represented by Zooits, which is Shiny Grimman's
ex boyfriend Tommy Bugs talent agency. What a throwback is
Tommy Bug. So I just think that if she wasn't
happy with it, instead of assuming that she was going
to get some sort of free trip to Cachella, she
should have asked for some money in return.
Speaker 1 (09:02):
I was surprised to hear that she was represented by
a talent agency. I actually think that she was happy
with the deal originally. However, maybe she's had a lot
of her followers come out and be like, why are
you on the trip, and her egos got involved and
now she's feeling a bit embarrassed. Now.
Speaker 2 (09:20):
In terms of this La trip, my perspective is that
this brand wanted to try and get their name out
to as many new customers as possible, so they wanted
to try some fresh influences instead of going back and
using the same person again. Now, one of the big
names invited on this trip is Sam Guggenheimer, who is
the it girl of the moment. She has one hundred
and twenty nine thousand followers on Instagram and two hundred
(09:43):
and forty seven thousand on TikTok. She is a former
friend of Sofa Dofer and she bears an uncanny resemblance
to Olivia Rodgers.
Speaker 1 (09:50):
Yeah, she was actually linked to Olivia's ex boyfriend Morgan
Waterhouse recently at Fashion Week. Nothing much has come from that,
but she was posting photos of him on her is
Tay story.
Speaker 2 (10:00):
Now. The other two Australian influencers on the trip Izy Armatid,
who has ninety seven thousand followers on both TikTok and
Instagram and Jasmine Edavares, who has one hundred and ten
thousand on TikTok and thirty seven thousand on Instagram. It
is interesting to note that all three of those influences
are managed by the same talent agency, which is One
day Dream, so they clearly have someone negotiating their deal
(10:23):
on their behalf. Yeah, and those girls are all friends
as well, so it seems like they've come as a
bit of a packaged deal. There has been quite a
lot of interest in the fact that they are over
in La and maybe that's what they had over Yasmin.
It seems like their posts seem to be rubbing a
bit of salt in the wound for Yasmin, because they've
been posting driving around in flashy jeeps and going to
(10:44):
very upmarket restaurants. The brand has also invited a number
of US creators down to their pop up store, and
they're also providing them with close to wed to Coachella.
It seems to be a pretty big activation for them,
and they seem to want to get their name out
there to an American audience.
Speaker 1 (10:59):
You would definitely have fomo seeing this all unfold on TikTok,
and people are sliding into your DMS being like why
aren't you there? I think this is just another example
of how oversaturated the influencer market is at the moment,
and it was probably quite a bad move for Yasmin
to accept a voucher in exchange for her work, because
(11:19):
that brand is going to be like, oh, well, we
don't have to pay her anymore, and it just shows
how replaceable influencers actually are.
Speaker 2 (11:26):
And I do want to point out that it appears
that the three Australian influencers on this trip seem to
have been paid to attend it, so I think that
that is what is causing a lot of distress as well.
I also think that social media has a way of
making things look very personal, as you guys have touched on.
Clearly she is receiving a lot of DMS and people
are sending her screenshots of this trip asking her why
(11:49):
you're not there? And I feel like the word invited
is so loaded because invited makes it sound like a
social event that you've been excluded from, when an actual fact,
it is a business decision who attends this trip. This
brand would have a lot of money writing on selecting
the right people to promote them, particularly during an important
event like Coachella.
Speaker 1 (12:09):
And Yasmin has probably done a lot of damage to
her own personal brand by uploading this rant, because a
lot of brands will see that and they'll go, well,
we're not working with her in the future. Why do
you think she took it down? Do you think she
thought better of it, or do you think the brand
asked her to remove it. I definitely think that the
brand has sprung into action and has asked her to
take this down. I do feel really sorry for her, though,
(12:31):
because this sort of publicity I think will deter other
brands from wanting to work with her in the future,
because technically by.
Speaker 2 (12:40):
Bambi didn't do anything wrong. Yeah, they didn't invite her
on this brand trip, but they never actually said they
were going to. It wasn't part of the deal.
Speaker 1 (12:48):
I'd be really interested to have a look at the
contract that was signed, because normally with these types of
contracts there are stipulations that you can't speak ill of
the brand or revealed details of the actual deal. So
I feel like the branded very well within their eyes
to tell her to remove the video.
Speaker 4 (13:06):
These guys really cute. So I messaged him and she's like,
no way, she was like, oh no.
Speaker 1 (13:13):
This week, fitness mogul and influencer Tammy Hembro has been
on a press tour for her new book Show Up.
While she's been grilled about that Kardashian incident and rejected
claims she got bum implants, all anyone can talk about
is her recent social media activity. On Monday night, Super
Sluice noticed that Tammy and her new fiance Mattsakowski had
(13:34):
dramatically unfollowed each other.
Speaker 2 (13:36):
That's right, Kate. This revelation led many to believe that
their relationship was in strife or over, and it was
quite awkward because when you went to look up the
name Matt on her follower list, you could clearly see
that Matt Sakowski was gone, but her ex fiance Matt
Pool was still there.
Speaker 3 (13:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:54):
That was so awkward because people were speculating, well, did
she delete Mattsakoska and then refollow Matt paul Yeah, and
that wasn't the case because Tammy refollowed Matt poul a
while ago, and was just last week that she was
sharing about their co parenting. It seems like they're in
a really good place at the moment. So she shared
a text message exchange between her and Matt Paul, and
(14:16):
in the messages, Matt Paul joked about giving their daughter
posey oysters as he knew that they were Tammy's favorite.
It kind of seemed quite cute the exchange, and a
lot of people, well, a lot of her followers are
saying that they shipped their relationship and they wish that
the two of them would get back together. So this
adds an interesting element to this conversation.
Speaker 1 (14:35):
I wonder how Matt two point feels about that, particularly
the timing as well.
Speaker 2 (14:39):
Yeah, well, this grand unfollowing comes just weeks after a
woman claimed that Matt Zukowski sent her flirty messages asking
if she had a boyfriend, and the woman says that
when she asked him why he wanted to know, he
apparently said he was asking on behalf of a mate. Now,
Tammy and Matt Zukowski have never publicly addressed this incident,
(15:00):
and since then, Tammy and Matt have not really been
featuring on one another's social media accounts. That being said,
this week, Tammy was interviewed on Mia Friedman's podcast No Filter,
and a day before that came out, Matt did this
big declaration of love on his Instagram story for her,
so he uploaded a mirror selfie with Tammy and wrote,
(15:21):
I have never felt a love that is so strong
and pure. I love you so much, babe. He also
commented under the podcast promotion, saying he couldn't wait to
listen to it.
Speaker 1 (15:32):
I did notice that and I was like, h they
must be back on. It is interesting to consider what
went down in those twenty four hours for them to
then unfollow each other.
Speaker 3 (15:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (15:41):
I just don't understand why any couple who is in
the public eye would bother playing into these games, because
it's obvious that they have people who were so invested
in their lives that they're constantly checking their accounts. And
also people are already speculating due to this controversy involving
the DM that something is going on, so they're going
to be checking it.
Speaker 1 (16:03):
Yeah, exactly. And after twenty four hours, they did appear
to refollow each other, but that was only after a
number of influencer Watchdog accounts actually reported on the unfollowing.
So I wonder if things are better or they just thought, fuck,
let's get people off our backs and refollow each other.
Speaker 2 (16:19):
Yeah. Well, the Daily Mail did an article about it too,
so it did reach mainstream media. Some followers were speculating
that this grand unfollowing was all part of a strategic
plan to get people talking about Tammy in the lead
up to her book release, because her book is coming
out in a couple of days.
Speaker 1 (16:36):
See to me, that doesn't make sense because the book
has already been published, so it's not like people are
going to go out and buy it with the hope
that their questions about her relationship with Matt Sukowski will
be answered. So I think this is all just a
case of very bad timing for Tammy. And in the
interviews that she's done, she's been asked about Matt and
she has spoken glowingly about him, but I think that's
(16:58):
because they were pre recorded.
Speaker 2 (17:00):
Yeah, but people are saying that it's a strategy to
get people talking about her. It's not because they're deluded
and think that they'll get some sort of juicy details
in this book about it. But it's getting her name
out there. It's reminding people she's got a book coming out.
Speaker 1 (17:13):
I understand where you're coming from, but I don't think
it's a very good look for her personal brand, particularly
because she's been trolled so much about getting engaged for
a third time, and I think she truly wants to
prove everyone wrong with this relationship, but it is just
unraveling before everyone's eyes sadly.
Speaker 3 (17:31):
Now.
Speaker 2 (17:31):
Tammy doesn't give many podcast interviews. I think the most
notable was on her fiance Matsukowski's podcast a few months ago.
So it was really interesting to see how she'd go
in the hot seat with me a freedman. And what
really stood out to me was just how nervous Tammy was,
and Mia pointed this out several times during the interview.
Speaker 1 (17:52):
Yeah, actually felt a bit sorry for Tammy because it's
the worst when you are nervous, but then someone keeps
telling you that you're nervous would make you even more nervous.
It's clear that she doesn't like being out of control,
and I think that was a big part of it.
Because Mia Friedman really, as the podcast suggests, doesn't have
a filter, and she asked her a lot of personal questions.
(18:14):
I was surprised how interested she was in Tammy's bum. Yeah,
there was a lot.
Speaker 2 (18:19):
Of interest in her bum. She was fascinated with how
Tammy combines her body, her brain, and her business to
build her empire, and she admitted for a long time
she thought Tammy had bum in plants, and she actually
asked her is your bum real? And Tammy confirmed it
is real and said that the reason people are so
surprised it's real is because people underestimate how much you
(18:39):
can transform your bum in the gym and kitchen.
Speaker 1 (18:42):
Well, that's a good ad for Tammy fit, isn't it.
I actually found it quite difficult to listen to this
interview because it felt like Mia was pulling teeth because
Tammy really wasn't giving her that much.
Speaker 2 (18:55):
Yeah, there were times when she only gave her one
word responses. It was almost though Tammy couldn't find the
words to articulate what she wanted to express. One question
where Mia struck gold was when she asked Tammy, has
there been anything you haven't wanted to share about before?
And Tammy admitted that she didn't share about her breakup
(19:15):
with her ex fiance Matt Paul because she felt like
a failure after the second engagement was called off. And
the reason this was so interesting is because she's never
really spoken about her breakup with Matt Paul before, and
she admitted that it was a really tough time for
her and she wanted to go through it personally and
not share about it online now. During this interview, Tammy
(19:36):
also confirmed that she's not done with having kids, and
she admitted that after she had Posey, she thought that
she was done because of her relationship breakdown with Matt Paul,
but now that she's in a new relationship with Matt Zukowski,
she said that she's open to it as he doesn't
have any kids of his own. And this is where
the interview did get a bit awkward because Mia obviously
(19:58):
wasn't aware that Mats's cosky is infertile, and she asked Tammy,
how did you find that out? And Tammy replied that
she found out during the start of their relationship, and
then Mia said, is that because you started trying to
have kids straight away?
Speaker 1 (20:12):
I do want to put.
Speaker 2 (20:13):
Context to this because Tammy did explain earlier in the
interview that she fell pregnant to Ryese Hawkins four weeks
into dating, so that is why Mea phrased it like this.
Speaker 1 (20:23):
I did like Tammy's response to this question because she
said that it's actually Matt's story to tell and that
there are options for them to have their own biological
children together. It did stand out to me that Mia
actually found it really hard to prep for this interview
because she kept mentioning that there's not actually a lot
of information out there about Tammy in terms of she
(20:43):
doesn't really do podcast interviews, and I suppose with influencers
you really have to be following them for years and
years to get any context around their life.
Speaker 2 (20:53):
Yeah, it's clear that she wasn't that familiar with her.
Something that made the interview really interesting was the way
that she wasn't scared to call her out on certain things.
For instance, she pointed out that she has been asking
Tammy to appear on No Filter for years now, and
Tammy has only decided to do so now that she
has a book coming out. She also challenged Tammy on
(21:17):
the way she promoted so called bounce back culture after
having her daughter Posey. However, Tammy did defend herself, saying
I wasn't in any sort of rush. I don't think
I left my bed. I had a little station in
my bedroom for the first six weeks because I ended
up losing about two liters of blood after I had Posey.
So yeah, it was quite an interesting conversation, but I
(21:38):
could just tell that Mia was working so hard to
make something out of nothing.
Speaker 1 (21:43):
Yeah. I always got the vibe that Mia was disappointed
after reading Tammy's book, which probably isn't the best promotion
for it, because she said, Oh, I was expecting it
to be a biography, but it's more a motivational book.
Speaker 2 (21:54):
From listening to this podcast interview, it is clear that
Tammy would benefit from some media training and even hearing
her talk about the way that her business is structured
and how basically she only employs her friends to run
SASKI and her app. I think that she needs to
look outside of her circle a bit, because she's got
a great opportunity. If she's bringing out a motivational book.
(22:18):
When she's on a podcast, her words should also be motivational.
But unfortunately they weren't. She just couldn't find the right words.
Speaker 1 (22:25):
To express herself in saying that though we do need
to give credit where credit is due. It's being reported
that she's built a fifty million dollar empire, so she's
clearly doing a lot of things right. But I do agree,
I think to go to that next level and position
her personal brand better, she would benefit from getting pr help.
I actually have something funny to share. You remember when
(22:46):
we spoke about that Chinese billionaire who like.
Speaker 5 (22:49):
DMG all the time replied messages.
Speaker 1 (22:52):
He's back, He commented on a photo of mine recently
and said, Madison be my girlfriend.
Speaker 2 (22:58):
Madison Woolly's apartment hunting is finally over. The influencer announced
she's just bought her dream apartment before jetting off to
New Zealand.
Speaker 1 (23:06):
And it has been a long time coming so for Madison,
who packed up her Sydney apartment in July last year.
Now at the time, she had to race against the
clock to get everything in storage before her trip to Europe,
and in a vog she told her audience she was
moving back in with her parents in NUSA while she
looked for an apartment in Sydney to purchase, and she
(23:26):
predicted that she would be back in no time. However,
it did end up taking ten months to buy an apartment.
I think that just shows how tough the housing market
is at the moment. Yeah, definitely, I feel for her.
It took me probably two years to buy a house
in Adelaide because it is just so competitive and I'd
hate to think how it actually is in the Eastern State.
It had been absolute nightmare. Yeah. Well, it seems like
(23:49):
Madison's done pretty well for herself, because she did share
a photo of what appears to be the interior of
her apartment and wrote, so I just bought my dream apartment.
She also followed up up by sharing a video on
TikTok of her looking stressed out at the airport, riding
peak stress levels signing contracts as I was boughting my flight,
but I just bought my dream apartment. Now, she was
(24:10):
jetting off to New Zealand with her boyfriend Jonathan Sower,
as you do.
Speaker 2 (24:14):
When you just bought a house.
Speaker 1 (24:15):
It's probably one of those things where she would look
back and was like, hmmm, probably shouldn't have booked a trip.
I can relate to her in a sense because my
partner and I bought our house three months before our wedding,
and because we'd been looking for so long. You're like, oh,
put my attention into the wedding, let's get.
Speaker 2 (24:30):
A photo booth, let's get all these extra things, and
you don't think about it that at the time all
of our invoices, would you when we just bought that house.
Speaker 1 (24:39):
Yeah, that month before the wedding, when you have to
pay the invoices is the worst. I couldn't imagine also
having all of your savings drained.
Speaker 2 (24:46):
At the same time.
Speaker 1 (24:47):
Now, we do need to clear some things up because recently,
on an episode of Madison's podcast, Girl Code, it seems
like she's not happy with us, particularly because we did
refer to her as being temporarily homeless recent Now, the
comment was made in jest because she had opened up
about how her parents had told her that her and
Jonathan needed to be out of their family home for
(25:10):
a couple of weeks. So at the time, her parents
were overseas and they'd done a house swat with people
that Madison didn't know, so she needed to vacate, so
they went to Balley and at the time, a listener
had also sent us a real estate dot Com link
to what appeared to be the Woolies' Noosa home, and
the home was being advertised as a rental, so it
all fit in with the story Madison shared on her podcast.
(25:32):
So she has come out and confirmed that that was
not her parents' house. So I did want to clear
things up.
Speaker 5 (25:38):
What all guys in New York want is to date
the like candid girlfriend.
Speaker 1 (25:43):
TikTok has a new label to categorize women, and it's
called the candid girlfriend. So the term was coined by
comedian Steph Dag on popular TikTok account Subway Takes. For
those who aren't familiar with this account, comedian Kareem Rama
ask people on the subway for their hottest takes. So
(26:03):
Steph shared her take on the New York dating scene,
saying this, what's your take?
Speaker 5 (26:09):
My take is that all guys think they want to
date the like cool, hot, artsy batty girlfriend with like
baby bangs and a bad father. But that's actually not
the case at all. What all guys in New York
want is to date the like candid girlfriend. You can
trademark that candid girlfriend is a girl who's like five
five and a half naturally Finn has mousey brown hair
no longer than shoulder length. She's like from New Hampshire,
maybe studied art history, and I would say the biggest
(26:31):
part of her personality is that she like loves pomegranate
and her boyfriend thinks that's like so quirky and adorable.
Speaker 1 (26:37):
Now, Steph went on to say that the candid girlfriend
is the patient zero of the pick me girl. She's
not actually trying to be picked but just authentically has
nothing going on in her brain. The stand up comedian
said that you can easily spot this type of woman
on her boyfriend's social media. While she's never the avert
center of attention, her boyfriend will post film photos of
(26:58):
the back of her head to his Instagram story. She'll
also usually appear on slide three of the boyfriend's photo
dump and be referred to as this one. According to Steph,
all guys want a candid girlfriend because they can make
a muse out of her and if you need any
more science, candid girlfriends apparently like poetry and Japanese culture,
(27:19):
and Steph finished up by saying, I would love to
meet one of them. I'm a girl's girl. I want
to see you up close. I want to touch your skin.
Her name is Emily. They're taking the hot men.
Speaker 2 (27:30):
So is the idea of the candid girlfriend someone who
will be walked all over, who's happy to just be
in the background. Is that the vibe?
Speaker 1 (27:39):
That is definitely the vibe and it seems to have
resonated with a lot of people because the video has
clocked up over thirteen million views and sparked a big debate.
So many people were quick to tell Steph how spot
on her take was, and they actually began naming and
shaming women that they believe fell into this category. So
some of the names included Alexa Chung, Suki Waterhouse, and
(28:02):
Jess koh Now. Another TikToker suggested that Steph had just
sparked a fashion and beauty micro trend and candid girlfriend
core was coming.
Speaker 2 (28:12):
The candid girlfriend it reminds me of when you're interested
in the guy you check out his social media. You
can't really see the girlfriend in many of the shots
until you do look through a few photo dumps and
you're like, oh, there she is. And as you say,
she's not the center of attention. She's happy not to
take up too much space. She's happy to let the
guy do whatever he wants, possibly cheat, just as long
(28:34):
as she's there.
Speaker 1 (28:35):
Yeah, you do get a certain vibe and I kind
of know the person that she is talking about. There
were a lot of people who weren't happy with Steph's take,
so some accused Steph of internalized misogyny, saying that her
criticisms were too pointed and it was argued her contempt
was directed at the woman rather than the men who
projected this fantasy on her. So some even claimed Steph
(28:59):
likely lost her boyfriend to a candid girlfriend.
Speaker 2 (29:02):
Well, do you blame her? You're always going to paint
a particular character ark for the person this steals your partner,
or the person that your partner moves on with.
Speaker 1 (29:11):
Yeah. Well, I don't want to get too technical. But
while her delivery may have been off, what Steph was
essentially saying is there's a difference between what men say
they desire to what they actually desire, and science sadly
does back this up. So men will often claim that
they want a smart, interesting, and successful woman. However, countless
(29:32):
studies have revealed that men actually pursue women they perceive
as less intelligent to them, which actually falls into this trend.
So a study conducted by Columbia University in two thousand
and six found that men valued women's intelligence only until
it matched their own, and they actually found women whose
ambition exceeded theirs to be off putting.
Speaker 2 (29:53):
Even though this study was conducted almost twenty years ago,
I think that this still very much rings true, and
I think that there are a lot of men in
society who don't like to have their intelligence challenged. They
want to come home to someone who is going to
sit and listen to their every word and be in
awe of what they say. But nowadays, I don't think
that they're going to find too many women who want
(30:14):
to do this and don't have their own ambitions and
their own dreams.
Speaker 1 (30:17):
See. I don't know if that is the case, because
I think gender roles are still very much ingrained in
heterosexual relationships. I mean, earlier this week we were speaking
about how the trad wife trend is all over TikTok.
At the moment, people are being urged to get into
their feminine energy. There is a switch that is happening
at the moment, and I still think a lot of
men feel a great pressure to be the bread winner
(30:38):
and are therefore threatened by intelligent and successful women. And
that is why we are seeing so many people relate
to this candid girlfriend trend. In terms of whether I
think the candid girlfriend actually exists, I think that the
concept is a fantasy for men, and I don't actually
think that the person really does exist. It's more of
(30:59):
a take on how men want some women to be.
Speaker 2 (31:03):
I think it's also a take on this character we
create for women on social media and the way that
men share about their partners on social media, because she
might look like this real, chilled girlfriend who's happy to
take the back seed and won't talk up, but we
don't know what goes on in people's real life relationships.
Speaker 1 (31:24):
I do think there are some women out there who
can be slightly complicit with this fantasy though, so while
they might not say it out loud, there are a
lot of straight women out there that want a partner
that earns more money than them.
Speaker 2 (31:38):
Yeah, but is this about someone earning more money than
you or wanting to be smarter than you, Because sometimes
you can be smarter than someone, but you're not necessarily
taking home a bigger bank check than them.
Speaker 1 (31:48):
I think it more links into the breadwinner concept and
that while women might not admit it, there is a
level of attraction to men that do have the capacity
to provide for someone innately. You might feel that you
might not say it out loud, but I do think
that that comes into dating a lot. That is where
we're going to leave things today. But if you do
want to hear more from us, We drop a subscriber
(32:09):
only episode every Thursday, so please consider signing up to
Outspoken Plus. All the details are in the show notes.
Thank you again for listening to another episode of Outspoken.
This podcast was recorded on the traditional land of the
Ghana people of the Adelaide Planes. We pay respect to
elders past and present.
Coming up on today's show, Tammy Hembro and Matt Sakowski's
bizarre social media behavior, the Melbourne micro influencers slams of
fashion brand for not inviting her to Coachella, and the
Candid Girlfriend is going viral. Hello and welcome to Outspoken.
It's your dose of the hottest influencer and pop culture
(00:26):
news twice a week. I'm Kate Torbert and Sophie. It's
just you and me on the mics. Today. Amy does
make a special appearance for the seconds. Yeah she's too
busy for us today, Yeah she is. She is very
busy with PR work, so we thought we would get
it done together. I mean, Amy and I did do
the subs episode, So who is the real MVP at
the moment. Well, I have been sick for the past
(00:46):
three days and I've been recording remotely, which is really
reminding me of COVID days.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
I don't like it very much. It is so dark
in my room at the moment. It's getting so cold.
I hate the winter seems to be upon us, and
Daylight's say over as well, which really officially makes it
the worst time of the year.
Speaker 1 (01:04):
The first week when it switches over is always so depressing.
The first day is kind of okay because you feel
like you're winning, you've had a little bit more of
a sleep in, but then as soon as it gets dark,
it really hits you and you're like, not this again.
It just seems to be bizarre because it's clocked over
to officially be a month since my wedding, and to think,
the only four weeks ago.
Speaker 2 (01:24):
It was forty degrees, it was bright, it was sunny outside.
It's crazy how the weather can turn in such a
short period of time. I do kind of secretly love
it because I feel like we are in our boring
married couple era at the moment, because we have booked
ourselves in with our partners for a quiz night at
a pub.
Speaker 1 (01:43):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:43):
I can't wait. There is nothing better than doing a
quiz night. I'm not that confident how good we will
be at it, though, because I think the three of
us only really bring pop culture knowledge, maybe a bit
of general news knowledge to it, but we're not very
good at the other top. So I know that my partner,
he's very good at sports and also, strangely enough, geography
(02:05):
and history. We actually did a bit of prep last
night and whenever we go to family dinner at his parents' house,
we do the Sunday quiz, but I never know any
of the answers because I feel like it's very targeted
towards a certain demographic. Oh definitely always in those quizzes.
I do them with Brandon's family as well, and I
will always be asked the celebrity and pop culture questions.
(02:26):
And I love it because They're always like, how the
fuck did you know that? And I'm like, well, how
did you guys know? The other stuff?
Speaker 3 (02:31):
I have no idea are the court I feel taken
advantage of because I feel like they knew how much
I loved the brand.
Speaker 4 (02:40):
They knew I would do anything for them. They know
I fucking die for them.
Speaker 1 (02:43):
A Melbourne micro influencer called Yasmin has slammed Melbourne fashion
label by Bambi for not inviting her on its brand
trip to Coachella. Yasmin, who was the face of the
brand's fifth birthday bash, revealed she only received a voucher
in exchange for the collaboration. So before we get into it,
can you tell us more about this fashion label because
(03:04):
I am not familiar with it.
Speaker 2 (03:05):
Look, I know they're having a tough week after being
called out, and I don't really want to add to it,
but I do want our listeners to go and look
up this brand because a brand has never made me
feel so old. These clothes look like costumes to me.
The clothes have this really early two thousands field. There's
lots of ruffles and bows and corsets and metallicky sort
of material. It's definitely not my cup of tea. But
(03:27):
I am not the target demographic for this brand now.
It is a Melbourne fashion label created by Andy Short
and the brand has over eighty eight thousand followers on
Instagram and describes itself as a slow fashion label which
prioritizes organic, recycled fabrics. That surprised me because, if anything
to me, it had that sort of cheap, fast fashion
vibe to it.
Speaker 1 (03:48):
Yeah, and as we mentioned in the intro, the brand
actually celebrated its fifth birthday in November with an influencer
event and Yasmin was at the center of it. So
she has one hundred and third twenty two thousand followers
on TikTok and sixteen point nine thousand on Instagram and
she was the face of the brand's birthday celebrations, so
she appeared in marketing collateral and hosted the event's pink carpet.
(04:12):
Now fast forward five months and by Bambi has launched
a pop up store in LA to dress influences for Coachella,
and Yasmin is pissed because she hasn't been invited on
this trip. Yeah, and she has posted a five minute
ran to her TikTok slamming the brand for not inviting
her on its LA trip, and she's also alleged that
the brand took advantage of her. The video has since
(04:35):
been deleted, but someone's screen recorded it before it went down.
Here's a snippet of what she said.
Speaker 4 (04:42):
I feel taken advantage of That is how I feel.
Speaker 3 (04:44):
I say as well, like this has nothing to do
with the girls that are on the trip with them
right now. Like also, gophy, you fucking love that you're invited,
Like you have every right to go, Like this is
not about them. Lot of people keep asking me like
like why aren't you there, like all of this shit,
like and I don't fucking know why I'm not there.
Speaker 4 (05:00):
I don't know why I'm not there.
Speaker 3 (05:01):
I feel like I went above and beyond for this brand.
All the campaigning I did for them, I did. I
promoted the shoot out of their products for free, like
they gave me the products, but like I still raged
about them, and.
Speaker 4 (05:12):
I wore them, and I did like a ten hour
shoot with them. I had meetings with them.
Speaker 3 (05:17):
I was the face of their fifth birthday campaign. Like
my face was plastered on walls. I was on billboards
on travels Street. I hosted an event for two hours
and I did that all for free. Yeah, I got
a voucher in exchange for doing that.
Speaker 1 (05:30):
She went on to say that she signed a contract
with the brand and knew what she was getting herself into,
but thought the free work she did my opener up
to further opportunities with the brand. She also said she
went above and beyond for the brand and essentially got
nothing back. Here's what Yasmin said about not being invited
on the Troop.
Speaker 4 (05:49):
People ask me, like, I hope you got invited, babe,
I didn't get any invite. Don't get me wrong.
Speaker 3 (05:54):
They have every right they of course, they can choose
who represents their brand and who comes to these events
and who they send overseas.
Speaker 4 (06:02):
That like when you just do so.
Speaker 3 (06:04):
Much for someone or something you just feel like you're
gonna get Like I just felt like I was creating
a relationship.
Speaker 2 (06:13):
I find it really interesting that Yasmin says that she
got nothing back, because if you look at her follow
account in the scheme of things, she is pretty small
fry in the influencer world. While she does have over
one hundred thousand followers on TikTok, she only has sixteen
thousand on Instagram, and for someone with that sort of following,
it is quite a big deal to be asked to
(06:34):
be the face of a brand, however small this brand is,
and not only was her content shared across by Bambie's account,
but she was also featured on a billboard in Chapel Street.
So she knew that by collaborating with this brand, she
was going to open herself up to a whole new
lot of followers and that's why she did it. So
while she wasn't being paid money, the exchange for her
(06:56):
was the exposure and the free products.
Speaker 1 (06:58):
And it is interesting that she meant that she signed
a contract, because if that hadn't been brought up, I
would have thought, wow, she did get screwed over. However,
it seems like the brand clearly stipulated what the deal
was and that she signed off on it, so they
can't really control her expectations outside of what was written
in the contract.
Speaker 2 (07:18):
Yeah, and that's the thing. I do think that influencers
should be paid for their time, particularly when they are
doing things like ten hour shoots. However, as you say, Kate,
that is the contract that she agreed to, and to
me it just sounds like quite a common contray deal
in the influencer space, where she was provided exposure and
clothes in exchange for her time.
Speaker 1 (07:37):
I feel a bit sorry for her though, because she
obviously thought if I do what the brand wants me
to do down the track, they.
Speaker 2 (07:44):
Will reward me.
Speaker 1 (07:45):
I get that, but it's quite possible that her involvement
in this fifth Birthday party wasn't successful for the brand.
They might have measured their return on investment in using
her and was like, h Okay, she didn't really work
with what we were trying to do. We actually need
to get bigger influences involved and potentially pay them.
Speaker 2 (08:03):
I do think they use the birthday collaboration as an
experiment to see if they wanted to work with her again,
and in this ranch she put screenshots up showing that
she had shared about twenty five reels promoting the brand.
But I did notice when I went to have a
closer look at it that the light count was hidden
on all of the posts, which generally is a bit
of a red flag that maybe that post didn't perform well.
(08:25):
It does shock me how many influencers hide their light count,
particularly when they share a branded post, because I'm like,
you clearly have something to hide. Yeah, it is always
a bit fishy. Going back to this contract, though, I
definitely think more negotiations should have taken place and more
pushback if she wasn't happy receiving a vouch she in
return for all of that work she did. I did
(08:46):
notice that she's represented by Zooits, which is Shiny Grimman's
ex boyfriend Tommy Bugs talent agency. What a throwback is
Tommy Bug. So I just think that if she wasn't
happy with it, instead of assuming that she was going
to get some sort of free trip to Cachella, she
should have asked for some money in return.
Speaker 1 (09:02):
I was surprised to hear that she was represented by
a talent agency. I actually think that she was happy
with the deal originally. However, maybe she's had a lot
of her followers come out and be like, why are
you on the trip, and her egos got involved and
now she's feeling a bit embarrassed. Now.
Speaker 2 (09:20):
In terms of this La trip, my perspective is that
this brand wanted to try and get their name out
to as many new customers as possible, so they wanted
to try some fresh influences instead of going back and
using the same person again. Now, one of the big
names invited on this trip is Sam Guggenheimer, who is
the it girl of the moment. She has one hundred
and twenty nine thousand followers on Instagram and two hundred
(09:43):
and forty seven thousand on TikTok. She is a former
friend of Sofa Dofer and she bears an uncanny resemblance
to Olivia Rodgers.
Speaker 1 (09:50):
Yeah, she was actually linked to Olivia's ex boyfriend Morgan
Waterhouse recently at Fashion Week. Nothing much has come from that,
but she was posting photos of him on her is
Tay story.
Speaker 2 (10:00):
Now. The other two Australian influencers on the trip Izy Armatid,
who has ninety seven thousand followers on both TikTok and
Instagram and Jasmine Edavares, who has one hundred and ten
thousand on TikTok and thirty seven thousand on Instagram. It
is interesting to note that all three of those influences
are managed by the same talent agency, which is One
day Dream, so they clearly have someone negotiating their deal
(10:23):
on their behalf. Yeah, and those girls are all friends
as well, so it seems like they've come as a
bit of a packaged deal. There has been quite a
lot of interest in the fact that they are over
in La and maybe that's what they had over Yasmin.
It seems like their posts seem to be rubbing a
bit of salt in the wound for Yasmin, because they've
been posting driving around in flashy jeeps and going to
(10:44):
very upmarket restaurants. The brand has also invited a number
of US creators down to their pop up store, and
they're also providing them with close to wed to Coachella.
It seems to be a pretty big activation for them,
and they seem to want to get their name out
there to an American audience.
Speaker 1 (10:59):
You would definitely have fomo seeing this all unfold on TikTok,
and people are sliding into your DMS being like why
aren't you there? I think this is just another example
of how oversaturated the influencer market is at the moment,
and it was probably quite a bad move for Yasmin
to accept a voucher in exchange for her work, because
(11:19):
that brand is going to be like, oh, well, we
don't have to pay her anymore, and it just shows
how replaceable influencers actually are.
Speaker 2 (11:26):
And I do want to point out that it appears
that the three Australian influencers on this trip seem to
have been paid to attend it, so I think that
that is what is causing a lot of distress as well.
I also think that social media has a way of
making things look very personal, as you guys have touched on.
Clearly she is receiving a lot of DMS and people
are sending her screenshots of this trip asking her why
(11:49):
you're not there? And I feel like the word invited
is so loaded because invited makes it sound like a
social event that you've been excluded from, when an actual fact,
it is a business decision who attends this trip. This
brand would have a lot of money writing on selecting
the right people to promote them, particularly during an important
event like Coachella.
Speaker 1 (12:09):
And Yasmin has probably done a lot of damage to
her own personal brand by uploading this rant, because a
lot of brands will see that and they'll go, well,
we're not working with her in the future. Why do
you think she took it down? Do you think she
thought better of it, or do you think the brand
asked her to remove it. I definitely think that the
brand has sprung into action and has asked her to
take this down. I do feel really sorry for her, though,
(12:31):
because this sort of publicity I think will deter other
brands from wanting to work with her in the future,
because technically by.
Speaker 2 (12:40):
Bambi didn't do anything wrong. Yeah, they didn't invite her
on this brand trip, but they never actually said they
were going to. It wasn't part of the deal.
Speaker 1 (12:48):
I'd be really interested to have a look at the
contract that was signed, because normally with these types of
contracts there are stipulations that you can't speak ill of
the brand or revealed details of the actual deal. So
I feel like the branded very well within their eyes
to tell her to remove the video.
Speaker 4 (13:06):
These guys really cute. So I messaged him and she's like,
no way, she was like, oh no.
Speaker 1 (13:13):
This week, fitness mogul and influencer Tammy Hembro has been
on a press tour for her new book Show Up.
While she's been grilled about that Kardashian incident and rejected
claims she got bum implants, all anyone can talk about
is her recent social media activity. On Monday night, Super
Sluice noticed that Tammy and her new fiance Mattsakowski had
(13:34):
dramatically unfollowed each other.
Speaker 2 (13:36):
That's right, Kate. This revelation led many to believe that
their relationship was in strife or over, and it was
quite awkward because when you went to look up the
name Matt on her follower list, you could clearly see
that Matt Sakowski was gone, but her ex fiance Matt
Pool was still there.
Speaker 3 (13:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:54):
That was so awkward because people were speculating, well, did
she delete Mattsakoska and then refollow Matt paul Yeah, and
that wasn't the case because Tammy refollowed Matt poul a
while ago, and was just last week that she was
sharing about their co parenting. It seems like they're in
a really good place at the moment. So she shared
a text message exchange between her and Matt Paul, and
(14:16):
in the messages, Matt Paul joked about giving their daughter
posey oysters as he knew that they were Tammy's favorite.
It kind of seemed quite cute the exchange, and a
lot of people, well, a lot of her followers are
saying that they shipped their relationship and they wish that
the two of them would get back together. So this
adds an interesting element to this conversation.
Speaker 1 (14:35):
I wonder how Matt two point feels about that, particularly
the timing as well.
Speaker 2 (14:39):
Yeah, well, this grand unfollowing comes just weeks after a
woman claimed that Matt Zukowski sent her flirty messages asking
if she had a boyfriend, and the woman says that
when she asked him why he wanted to know, he
apparently said he was asking on behalf of a mate. Now,
Tammy and Matt Zukowski have never publicly addressed this incident,
(15:00):
and since then, Tammy and Matt have not really been
featuring on one another's social media accounts. That being said,
this week, Tammy was interviewed on Mia Friedman's podcast No Filter,
and a day before that came out, Matt did this
big declaration of love on his Instagram story for her,
so he uploaded a mirror selfie with Tammy and wrote,
(15:21):
I have never felt a love that is so strong
and pure. I love you so much, babe. He also
commented under the podcast promotion, saying he couldn't wait to
listen to it.
Speaker 1 (15:32):
I did notice that and I was like, h they
must be back on. It is interesting to consider what
went down in those twenty four hours for them to
then unfollow each other.
Speaker 3 (15:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (15:41):
I just don't understand why any couple who is in
the public eye would bother playing into these games, because
it's obvious that they have people who were so invested
in their lives that they're constantly checking their accounts. And
also people are already speculating due to this controversy involving
the DM that something is going on, so they're going
to be checking it.
Speaker 1 (16:03):
Yeah, exactly. And after twenty four hours, they did appear
to refollow each other, but that was only after a
number of influencer Watchdog accounts actually reported on the unfollowing.
So I wonder if things are better or they just thought, fuck,
let's get people off our backs and refollow each other.
Speaker 2 (16:19):
Yeah. Well, the Daily Mail did an article about it too,
so it did reach mainstream media. Some followers were speculating
that this grand unfollowing was all part of a strategic
plan to get people talking about Tammy in the lead
up to her book release, because her book is coming
out in a couple of days.
Speaker 1 (16:36):
See to me, that doesn't make sense because the book
has already been published, so it's not like people are
going to go out and buy it with the hope
that their questions about her relationship with Matt Sukowski will
be answered. So I think this is all just a
case of very bad timing for Tammy. And in the
interviews that she's done, she's been asked about Matt and
she has spoken glowingly about him, but I think that's
(16:58):
because they were pre recorded.
Speaker 2 (17:00):
Yeah, but people are saying that it's a strategy to
get people talking about her. It's not because they're deluded
and think that they'll get some sort of juicy details
in this book about it. But it's getting her name
out there. It's reminding people she's got a book coming out.
Speaker 1 (17:13):
I understand where you're coming from, but I don't think
it's a very good look for her personal brand, particularly
because she's been trolled so much about getting engaged for
a third time, and I think she truly wants to
prove everyone wrong with this relationship, but it is just
unraveling before everyone's eyes sadly.
Speaker 3 (17:31):
Now.
Speaker 2 (17:31):
Tammy doesn't give many podcast interviews. I think the most
notable was on her fiance Matsukowski's podcast a few months ago.
So it was really interesting to see how she'd go
in the hot seat with me a freedman. And what
really stood out to me was just how nervous Tammy was,
and Mia pointed this out several times during the interview.
Speaker 1 (17:52):
Yeah, actually felt a bit sorry for Tammy because it's
the worst when you are nervous, but then someone keeps
telling you that you're nervous would make you even more nervous.
It's clear that she doesn't like being out of control,
and I think that was a big part of it.
Because Mia Friedman really, as the podcast suggests, doesn't have
a filter, and she asked her a lot of personal questions.
(18:14):
I was surprised how interested she was in Tammy's bum. Yeah,
there was a lot.
Speaker 2 (18:19):
Of interest in her bum. She was fascinated with how
Tammy combines her body, her brain, and her business to
build her empire, and she admitted for a long time
she thought Tammy had bum in plants, and she actually
asked her is your bum real? And Tammy confirmed it
is real and said that the reason people are so
surprised it's real is because people underestimate how much you
(18:39):
can transform your bum in the gym and kitchen.
Speaker 1 (18:42):
Well, that's a good ad for Tammy fit, isn't it.
I actually found it quite difficult to listen to this
interview because it felt like Mia was pulling teeth because
Tammy really wasn't giving her that much.
Speaker 2 (18:55):
Yeah, there were times when she only gave her one
word responses. It was almost though Tammy couldn't find the
words to articulate what she wanted to express. One question
where Mia struck gold was when she asked Tammy, has
there been anything you haven't wanted to share about before?
And Tammy admitted that she didn't share about her breakup
(19:15):
with her ex fiance Matt Paul because she felt like
a failure after the second engagement was called off. And
the reason this was so interesting is because she's never
really spoken about her breakup with Matt Paul before, and
she admitted that it was a really tough time for
her and she wanted to go through it personally and
not share about it online now. During this interview, Tammy
(19:36):
also confirmed that she's not done with having kids, and
she admitted that after she had Posey, she thought that
she was done because of her relationship breakdown with Matt Paul,
but now that she's in a new relationship with Matt Zukowski,
she said that she's open to it as he doesn't
have any kids of his own. And this is where
the interview did get a bit awkward because Mia obviously
(19:58):
wasn't aware that Mats's cosky is infertile, and she asked Tammy,
how did you find that out? And Tammy replied that
she found out during the start of their relationship, and
then Mia said, is that because you started trying to
have kids straight away?
Speaker 1 (20:12):
I do want to put.
Speaker 2 (20:13):
Context to this because Tammy did explain earlier in the
interview that she fell pregnant to Ryese Hawkins four weeks
into dating, so that is why Mea phrased it like this.
Speaker 1 (20:23):
I did like Tammy's response to this question because she
said that it's actually Matt's story to tell and that
there are options for them to have their own biological
children together. It did stand out to me that Mia
actually found it really hard to prep for this interview
because she kept mentioning that there's not actually a lot
of information out there about Tammy in terms of she
(20:43):
doesn't really do podcast interviews, and I suppose with influencers
you really have to be following them for years and
years to get any context around their life.
Speaker 2 (20:53):
Yeah, it's clear that she wasn't that familiar with her.
Something that made the interview really interesting was the way
that she wasn't scared to call her out on certain things.
For instance, she pointed out that she has been asking
Tammy to appear on No Filter for years now, and
Tammy has only decided to do so now that she
has a book coming out. She also challenged Tammy on
(21:17):
the way she promoted so called bounce back culture after
having her daughter Posey. However, Tammy did defend herself, saying
I wasn't in any sort of rush. I don't think
I left my bed. I had a little station in
my bedroom for the first six weeks because I ended
up losing about two liters of blood after I had Posey.
So yeah, it was quite an interesting conversation, but I
(21:38):
could just tell that Mia was working so hard to
make something out of nothing.
Speaker 1 (21:43):
Yeah. I always got the vibe that Mia was disappointed
after reading Tammy's book, which probably isn't the best promotion
for it, because she said, Oh, I was expecting it
to be a biography, but it's more a motivational book.
Speaker 2 (21:54):
From listening to this podcast interview, it is clear that
Tammy would benefit from some media training and even hearing
her talk about the way that her business is structured
and how basically she only employs her friends to run
SASKI and her app. I think that she needs to
look outside of her circle a bit, because she's got
a great opportunity. If she's bringing out a motivational book.
(22:18):
When she's on a podcast, her words should also be motivational.
But unfortunately they weren't. She just couldn't find the right words.
Speaker 1 (22:25):
To express herself in saying that though we do need
to give credit where credit is due. It's being reported
that she's built a fifty million dollar empire, so she's
clearly doing a lot of things right. But I do agree,
I think to go to that next level and position
her personal brand better, she would benefit from getting pr help.
I actually have something funny to share. You remember when
(22:46):
we spoke about that Chinese billionaire who like.
Speaker 5 (22:49):
DMG all the time replied messages.
Speaker 1 (22:52):
He's back, He commented on a photo of mine recently
and said, Madison be my girlfriend.
Speaker 2 (22:58):
Madison Woolly's apartment hunting is finally over. The influencer announced
she's just bought her dream apartment before jetting off to
New Zealand.
Speaker 1 (23:06):
And it has been a long time coming so for Madison,
who packed up her Sydney apartment in July last year.
Now at the time, she had to race against the
clock to get everything in storage before her trip to Europe,
and in a vog she told her audience she was
moving back in with her parents in NUSA while she
looked for an apartment in Sydney to purchase, and she
(23:26):
predicted that she would be back in no time. However,
it did end up taking ten months to buy an apartment.
I think that just shows how tough the housing market
is at the moment. Yeah, definitely, I feel for her.
It took me probably two years to buy a house
in Adelaide because it is just so competitive and I'd
hate to think how it actually is in the Eastern State.
It had been absolute nightmare. Yeah. Well, it seems like
(23:49):
Madison's done pretty well for herself, because she did share
a photo of what appears to be the interior of
her apartment and wrote, so I just bought my dream apartment.
She also followed up up by sharing a video on
TikTok of her looking stressed out at the airport, riding
peak stress levels signing contracts as I was boughting my flight,
but I just bought my dream apartment. Now, she was
(24:10):
jetting off to New Zealand with her boyfriend Jonathan Sower,
as you do.
Speaker 2 (24:14):
When you just bought a house.
Speaker 1 (24:15):
It's probably one of those things where she would look
back and was like, hmmm, probably shouldn't have booked a trip.
I can relate to her in a sense because my
partner and I bought our house three months before our wedding,
and because we'd been looking for so long. You're like, oh,
put my attention into the wedding, let's get.
Speaker 2 (24:30):
A photo booth, let's get all these extra things, and
you don't think about it that at the time all
of our invoices, would you when we just bought that house.
Speaker 1 (24:39):
Yeah, that month before the wedding, when you have to
pay the invoices is the worst. I couldn't imagine also
having all of your savings drained.
Speaker 2 (24:46):
At the same time.
Speaker 1 (24:47):
Now, we do need to clear some things up because recently,
on an episode of Madison's podcast, Girl Code, it seems
like she's not happy with us, particularly because we did
refer to her as being temporarily homeless recent Now, the
comment was made in jest because she had opened up
about how her parents had told her that her and
Jonathan needed to be out of their family home for
(25:10):
a couple of weeks. So at the time, her parents
were overseas and they'd done a house swat with people
that Madison didn't know, so she needed to vacate, so
they went to Balley and at the time, a listener
had also sent us a real estate dot Com link
to what appeared to be the Woolies' Noosa home, and
the home was being advertised as a rental, so it
all fit in with the story Madison shared on her podcast.
(25:32):
So she has come out and confirmed that that was
not her parents' house. So I did want to clear
things up.
Speaker 5 (25:38):
What all guys in New York want is to date
the like candid girlfriend.
Speaker 1 (25:43):
TikTok has a new label to categorize women, and it's
called the candid girlfriend. So the term was coined by
comedian Steph Dag on popular TikTok account Subway Takes. For
those who aren't familiar with this account, comedian Kareem Rama
ask people on the subway for their hottest takes. So
(26:03):
Steph shared her take on the New York dating scene,
saying this, what's your take?
Speaker 5 (26:09):
My take is that all guys think they want to
date the like cool, hot, artsy batty girlfriend with like
baby bangs and a bad father. But that's actually not
the case at all. What all guys in New York
want is to date the like candid girlfriend. You can
trademark that candid girlfriend is a girl who's like five
five and a half naturally Finn has mousey brown hair
no longer than shoulder length. She's like from New Hampshire,
maybe studied art history, and I would say the biggest
(26:31):
part of her personality is that she like loves pomegranate
and her boyfriend thinks that's like so quirky and adorable.
Speaker 1 (26:37):
Now, Steph went on to say that the candid girlfriend
is the patient zero of the pick me girl. She's
not actually trying to be picked but just authentically has
nothing going on in her brain. The stand up comedian
said that you can easily spot this type of woman
on her boyfriend's social media. While she's never the avert
center of attention, her boyfriend will post film photos of
(26:58):
the back of her head to his Instagram story. She'll
also usually appear on slide three of the boyfriend's photo
dump and be referred to as this one. According to Steph,
all guys want a candid girlfriend because they can make
a muse out of her and if you need any
more science, candid girlfriends apparently like poetry and Japanese culture,
(27:19):
and Steph finished up by saying, I would love to
meet one of them. I'm a girl's girl. I want
to see you up close. I want to touch your skin.
Her name is Emily. They're taking the hot men.
Speaker 2 (27:30):
So is the idea of the candid girlfriend someone who
will be walked all over, who's happy to just be
in the background. Is that the vibe?
Speaker 1 (27:39):
That is definitely the vibe and it seems to have
resonated with a lot of people because the video has
clocked up over thirteen million views and sparked a big debate.
So many people were quick to tell Steph how spot
on her take was, and they actually began naming and
shaming women that they believe fell into this category. So
some of the names included Alexa Chung, Suki Waterhouse, and
(28:02):
Jess koh Now. Another TikToker suggested that Steph had just
sparked a fashion and beauty micro trend and candid girlfriend
core was coming.
Speaker 2 (28:12):
The candid girlfriend it reminds me of when you're interested
in the guy you check out his social media. You
can't really see the girlfriend in many of the shots
until you do look through a few photo dumps and
you're like, oh, there she is. And as you say,
she's not the center of attention. She's happy not to
take up too much space. She's happy to let the
guy do whatever he wants, possibly cheat, just as long
(28:34):
as she's there.
Speaker 1 (28:35):
Yeah, you do get a certain vibe and I kind
of know the person that she is talking about. There
were a lot of people who weren't happy with Steph's take,
so some accused Steph of internalized misogyny, saying that her
criticisms were too pointed and it was argued her contempt
was directed at the woman rather than the men who
projected this fantasy on her. So some even claimed Steph
(28:59):
likely lost her boyfriend to a candid girlfriend.
Speaker 2 (29:02):
Well, do you blame her? You're always going to paint
a particular character ark for the person this steals your partner,
or the person that your partner moves on with.
Speaker 1 (29:11):
Yeah. Well, I don't want to get too technical. But
while her delivery may have been off, what Steph was
essentially saying is there's a difference between what men say
they desire to what they actually desire, and science sadly
does back this up. So men will often claim that
they want a smart, interesting, and successful woman. However, countless
(29:32):
studies have revealed that men actually pursue women they perceive
as less intelligent to them, which actually falls into this trend.
So a study conducted by Columbia University in two thousand
and six found that men valued women's intelligence only until
it matched their own, and they actually found women whose
ambition exceeded theirs to be off putting.
Speaker 2 (29:53):
Even though this study was conducted almost twenty years ago,
I think that this still very much rings true, and
I think that there are a lot of men in
society who don't like to have their intelligence challenged. They
want to come home to someone who is going to
sit and listen to their every word and be in
awe of what they say. But nowadays, I don't think
that they're going to find too many women who want
(30:14):
to do this and don't have their own ambitions and
their own dreams.
Speaker 1 (30:17):
See. I don't know if that is the case, because
I think gender roles are still very much ingrained in
heterosexual relationships. I mean, earlier this week we were speaking
about how the trad wife trend is all over TikTok.
At the moment, people are being urged to get into
their feminine energy. There is a switch that is happening
at the moment, and I still think a lot of
men feel a great pressure to be the bread winner
(30:38):
and are therefore threatened by intelligent and successful women. And
that is why we are seeing so many people relate
to this candid girlfriend trend. In terms of whether I
think the candid girlfriend actually exists, I think that the
concept is a fantasy for men, and I don't actually
think that the person really does exist. It's more of
(30:59):
a take on how men want some women to be.
Speaker 2 (31:03):
I think it's also a take on this character we
create for women on social media and the way that
men share about their partners on social media, because she
might look like this real, chilled girlfriend who's happy to
take the back seed and won't talk up, but we
don't know what goes on in people's real life relationships.
Speaker 1 (31:24):
I do think there are some women out there who
can be slightly complicit with this fantasy though, so while
they might not say it out loud, there are a
lot of straight women out there that want a partner
that earns more money than them.
Speaker 2 (31:38):
Yeah, but is this about someone earning more money than
you or wanting to be smarter than you, Because sometimes
you can be smarter than someone, but you're not necessarily
taking home a bigger bank check than them.
Speaker 1 (31:48):
I think it more links into the breadwinner concept and
that while women might not admit it, there is a
level of attraction to men that do have the capacity
to provide for someone innately. You might feel that you
might not say it out loud, but I do think
that that comes into dating a lot. That is where
we're going to leave things today. But if you do
want to hear more from us, We drop a subscriber
(32:09):
only episode every Thursday, so please consider signing up to
Outspoken Plus. All the details are in the show notes.
Thank you again for listening to another episode of Outspoken.
This podcast was recorded on the traditional land of the
Ghana people of the Adelaide Planes. We pay respect to
elders past and present.
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