August 24, 2023 • 29 mins
Welcome, dear listeners, to a riveting conversation with DJ Pain 1 Hold your breath as we journey through his transformation from an aspiring rapper to a multi-platinum record producer, as he recalls breaking into the music industry and the battles he had to fight to stay afloat. Be prepared to be amused and enlightened by his stories of collaborations with Ludacris, Rick Ross, G Herbo and the significant influence of Soulja Boy on the music business.
Ever wondered how fame can transform you into an Imposter? DJ pain 1 has experienced it first hand. He candidly discusses the struggle of dealing with the pressures of success and the uncomfortable feeling of people using him. He also emphasizes on the crucial role of relationships in the music industry. Hang on as our chat takes unexpected turns from him being an interviewee to an interviewer, sharing the invaluable lessons he learned through his journey.
We're bringing you a unique perspective on the role of the internet and authenticity in music business. Navigate through the digital age with us as we explore how artists can thrive. DJ Pain 1 shares his college experiences and how they prepared him for the challenges ahead. We're wrapping up the episode by redefining success and failure, debunking the myth that success is solely about financial gain. Brace yourself for an episode packed with valuable lessons and intriguing stories from DJ Pain 1 music journey.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
What's up everybody.
This is your host D-Star herewith.
Speaker 2 (00:02):
DJ Payne one.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
DJ Payne one platinum , multi platinum now Multi
platinum how many platinum plotsyou got now?
Speaker 2 (00:09):
Just two, but you said that super, not that put me
, that puts me into the, intothe multi platinum.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
Right, but you said that to not.
Shall I just to want more.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
I don't know what you want.
It is very humble.
Speaker 1 (00:22):
He's very humble.
Ok, so for the people thatdon't know, you kind of give us
a little bit about yourself.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
I'm a record producer , dj, also educator in the music
business space other spaces aswell but I've been doing this
for a while, I probably sayprofessionally, since 2008.
That was, that was the breakingpoint for me.
I was in school, I had threejobs at the time and then
suddenly number one record kindof happened.
(00:49):
But prior to that I had beenmaking music for a good decade.
Speaker 1 (00:53):
So what you mean by making music?
You mean by, like, making yourown beats, making my own beats.
Speaker 2 (00:58):
I was wrapping a little bit at the beginning.
Yeah, you know trying to learnhow to engineer playing shows,
DJing, all that.
Speaker 1 (01:04):
Right.
So what?
Which one did you fall in lovewith first?
Speaker 2 (01:07):
Probably probably rapping, I'm not going to lie,
yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:11):
Still got bars no.
Speaker 2 (01:13):
That's why I stopped.
You never did have bars?
No, I don't think so.
But yeah, you know like thatnecessitated having production,
because it was.
You know it was not going tosay what year it was, but it was
.
I was in high school, middleschool, going into high school,
so it wasn't like it is now.
We just go online and you got amillion beats at your
fingertips, so I had to figureout.
(01:34):
You need to know somebody whomade beats right, or you became
that person, so I became thatperson.
Speaker 1 (01:39):
All right, we need beats.
Somebody got to learn how tomake beats, and you were the guy
.
Speaker 2 (01:44):
I took that upon myself, and then I think that
begets more learning, because aonce you know how to make beats,
well, now you got to figure outhow to at least track Right,
and you learn that.
Ok, I may as well just try tolearn how to mix.
Speaker 1 (01:56):
So the people that don't know what tracking is,
break that down.
Speaker 2 (01:59):
Yeah, running the session as an engineer, but in
the recording capacity, and thenyou move on to mixing.
You know, making the recordingsound good.
And then well, hey, we got toput the music out, so now you
have to learn the business to anextent distribution and
Marketing, marketing and graphicdesign, because we're going to
do those.
And then you got to learnsocial media, because that was
(02:20):
brand new.
Yeah, it was new around thattime.
You know, that was, I remember,when it was revolutionary, the
stuff Soulja Boy was doing rightWith MySpace.
Speaker 1 (02:29):
it was with MySpace whole game and I'm so shout out
to Soulja Boy and Kazan and allthose other file sharing
services.
Speaker 2 (02:37):
He was kind of tricking people but because he
was the first one to do it, itwas the blueprint.
It works.
Speaker 1 (02:42):
Yeah, it was the first one that actually made it
work.
Speaker 2 (02:45):
Yeah, so anytime there are all these memes or
it's like Soulja Boy is thefirst rapper to do that, I'm
like he kind of was yeah.
Speaker 1 (02:50):
And then he pulled up the files like oh this is.
You know what I mean.
This is irrespectable.
I was the first one to have aniPhone.
I was the first rapper to havean iPhone.
Speaker 2 (03:00):
And somehow, somehow things like that actually are
accurate.
I don't know how he does it,but yeah, he's a pretty
interesting figure in the musicbusiness.
Speaker 1 (03:09):
Yeah, and it's crazy because it seems like he's lying
but he's not.
Yeah, the truth.
Speaker 2 (03:15):
No, I never.
You know.
He has his moments where I haveto shake my head.
He's an influential figure.
He influenced a lot.
I mean bedroom recordings intoviral hits.
Speaker 1 (03:26):
Right.
Speaker 2 (03:26):
I would argue that was one of the first viral hits.
Speaker 1 (03:29):
Absolutely.
And then after that.
Speaker 2 (03:30):
Now it's just the norm.
Speaker 1 (03:31):
You know there's not First ringtone hit.
You know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (03:34):
Yeah yeah, and that was revolutionary at the time.
Ringtones were so novel.
Now people don't even use them.
But we go into the streamingarea where a viral hit is just
the norm.
The norm, that's what you,that's, that's the minimum for
success.
You got to get the viral hit.
Speaker 1 (03:50):
So for the people that really just not familiar
with your catalog, can you breakdown your catalog a little bit
first?
Speaker 2 (03:56):
2008,.
That was when I referred to asmy break.
That was a produced don't do itfor Young GZ.
And then from then on I justkind of had a cool run.
We did another record, me andDJ Cass for GZ and USDA call CTE
or nothing.
Oh, I did Love this city formeat mill.
Everything just kind of blendsinto some jumping all this is
(04:17):
not in chronological order.
Right, right, little bitty andKevin Gates.
We are strong.
G Herbo, common Hunters.
Most recently, the new platinumplaque is for the push ice, the
album.
But we did a gold single offthe album, me Go Hayes and JD
Fang.
We did a record called switchit up, also featuring G Herbo.
(04:39):
So a couple of records with him, let's not forget about I-20.
Whole lot of, but that's likethat's a friend you know.
So we did a million together,lots of stuff with 20, oh, and
then Ludacris, of course.
Speaker 1 (04:51):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (04:52):
Ludacris and Rick Ross actually on a song called
Money Off Ludiversel.
The game featuring Jada KissStyles P AR-16, off of Jesus
Pease, called Last Supper RaceRember.
Grow it Up, mike Willemars.
Speaker 1 (05:06):
It's a lot of stuff it's a lot, I know, kind of
trying to try to remember man.
Speaker 2 (05:11):
A public enemy.
That was amazing.
We worked on a oh my god.
We worked on a Nas record, ohwow.
Shout out to Static Select.
Yeah, he brought us in Becausewe had been creating samples for
him for a while.
Me and my team, vintage Vandals, shout out to Dream Life.
Who?
Speaker 1 (05:28):
we were talking about earlier, right.
Speaker 2 (05:30):
We, yeah, we got brought in and it was amazing
because it was like all myfriends, we had a memory from
out here, stack, trace from outhere, Dream Life.
Speaker 1 (05:38):
I like memory, yeah His work.
Speaker 2 (05:40):
Yeah, he's dope.
And then Tina G, who's alsofrom out here.
She was singing.
Gary Clark Jr was on the record.
I think it was the first timeNas and Joey Badass were on the
same record.
So, I played some keys and somebass and stuff on it and it
just became this epic project.
And then we then Dream Life andI co-produced with Static Head
(06:03):
High off of Joey Badass's lastalbum.
Speaker 1 (06:06):
Yeah, that's a crazy catalog.
So kind of tell us about thejourney a little bit, Like did
it kind of feel like it wasovernight when you first got
that first number one, or did itfeel like it was a long time
coming, or did it when it firsthit there, was it like too fast
or like how did you feel?
Speaker 2 (06:24):
All of the above?
Oh, okay, I remember I wasworking one of my jobs.
I worked on campus for apre-college program because I
studied to become a teacher.
So I was working with kids andI'm sitting at my desk, my
supervisors in the office withme, but we're the only two
(06:44):
people there my manager at thetime, Brendan, from Toronto.
I get a call from a Canadiannumber and he's like you're on
the GZ album and my brain justwasn't processing what he was
saying because I'm like there'sno way he said that right,
Because I felt like at the timeI had no business being on an
album that big.
Speaker 1 (06:59):
Really.
Speaker 2 (07:00):
Oh yeah, and I mean I want like part of me.
This is kind of the wholeimposter syndrome thing with a
lot of us artists, because we,on the one hand, we believe with
all our hearts that this iswhat we were meant to do, but
then, when it happens, we'relike wait a minute, is this
really, are we really deservingof this?
So that I couldn't process whathe was saying.
I had to make.
(07:20):
I made him repeat it like threetimes and then I walked out of
the room.
I was like say that one moretime.
And then I came back into theroom and I told my supervisor,
who was a musician, I wasexcited.
He got kind of excited for metoo.
But yeah, that was the start andI remember I thought everything
was going to change overnight.
After that I'm like I got anumber one record.
(07:41):
This is amazing.
I can walk into anywhere andI'm just you know, I'm the man,
not even that just likeopportunities are just going to
come to me now.
And realistically, that justwasn't how it was.
I still had to seek out theopportunities.
I had a great entry point, youknow, so I could go to labels
and be like I did this off theGs.
(08:02):
Okay, cool, yeah, here's mynumber.
But it wasn't like I became thego to producer in the business.
I still had to work a lot.
I had a lot of room left todevelop as a producer.
Speaker 1 (08:15):
So did the people stop asking you to do things for
free, or?
That has never stopped.
Speaker 2 (08:19):
No, someone has, as anytime I checked my phone,
someone's asking me forsomething for free.
So that's just how it is.
It comes with the territory.
Speaker 1 (08:26):
How does that make you feel?
Speaker 2 (08:27):
I kind of ignore it.
What bothers me is when I washaving a tough week last week.
Emotionally it wasn't a badweek, I'm not going to call it a
bad week, it was a great week.
Everything is great in my life.
But sometimes, you know, youhave these moments where, or
these periods where you'rereflecting on something and I
(08:47):
don't know I was feelingparticularly lonely or
vulnerable or something thatweek.
Speaker 1 (08:52):
I was just getting all this as we all go through
sometimes.
Speaker 2 (08:54):
Yeah, and I think we just try to hide it and that's
another topic.
But I remember someone reachedout to like hey, I'm a big fan.
Can you listen to my music,check out my beats and you know,
get them places.
I'm trying to go, I'm trying toget big placements.
I'm just like you're just tryingto use me.
And I get this all the time andyou know a lot of people are
(09:16):
critical when I speak on thisbecause they're like, I'd love
to be in your position.
It's like, yeah, you would andI I'm very grateful, but at the
same time, I just want to makeit clear that we're all human,
um, and human beings don't likefeeling like people are out to
use them.
So when someone reaches out andit's not about money or
anything, it's like if I don'tknow you and you're framing your
(09:41):
message to me as you wanting toextract some benefit from me,
that feels terrible.
It's like picture, you know,just like being used.
You know like if you have afriend, that's like, oh, can you
drive me somewhere?
And finally you say, no, Ican't drive you anywhere, oh,
I'm not your friend anymore.
Speaker 1 (09:56):
You're like wow, you were using me the whole time.
Speaker 2 (09:58):
And this will be the first thing that people will say
to me and to you.
Know, anyone that they perceiveas having some kind of
influence in the business islike just talk to me like a
human, just ask me how my day is.
You know what I mean.
Don't just be like, hey, what'sup?
Man, really respect you.
Hey, can you do this, this,this, this, this for me?
And you know, I pride myself onbeing non-reactive to that and
(10:18):
just kind of trying to put it inperspective.
But sometimes I'm just like,here we go, I've reached my
limit, I feel sad about this andyeah.
So I messaged him back and Iwas just like man, this is how
it feels.
I don't know why.
I had that moment where I'mlike let me just tell him
exactly how I feel.
And I was like, yeah, thisfeels, this feels bad Feels.
You know, I'm getting a hundredmessages like this every week.
(10:40):
Someone's trying to get somebenefit from me, someone that
doesn't know me, someone thatdoesn't you know, like you don't
even know my real name and I'msupposed to go out on a limb and
get you all this stuff that I'mtrying to get for myself and
that if I were to get it forsomeone to be, for someone that
I know has worked with meforever and you know we've been
close and so on and so forth.
He apologized, but I just don'tthink people understand that.
(11:03):
I think people will look at anartist that are creative, that's
in a potentially betterposition than them, and think,
okay, let me go to them and getthis benefit from them.
But realistically that's not.
I mean, you tell me with yourjourney, relationships matter.
Speaker 1 (11:23):
Here we go.
Speaker 2 (11:24):
You switch.
Speaker 1 (11:25):
You've, you've, you've done it.
Okay, so Payne actually has apodcast too.
So we were talking about thisoff camera, that sometimes in
the course of doing an interviewyou switch from being
interviewed to the interviewee,right, so it's like it's just a
little inside joke.
But I'm sorry, go ahead.
Speaker 2 (11:45):
But correct me if I'm wrong.
I mean for me any.
Anytime I've developed arelationship that was of value.
It's like it's a there's,there's some kind of I bring
something to the table, youbring something to the table, we
grow together from it.
It's not just me saying, hey,give me this, give me this, give
me this, give me this, give methis, give me this, and then I
(12:07):
get it.
I mean even I equate that I'msingle, so I equate that to you
know, like the dating process,my favorite subject
relationships.
Yeah let's go, let's just jumpinto that.
So I can't just walk up to awoman and I'm like, hey, give me
some sex Right now, don't work.
And I'm not, let's not lie, mendo that yeah absolutely.
(12:31):
And it's one.
It's disrespectful to, it'sineffective, but that's.
You know.
In the music business, a lot ofpeople are coming up to their
peers.
Even if I don't care if you'renot, if you've never had a
record out, if you put yourselfin the music business, we're
peers, right Like Drake is huge,but I'm his peer, we're, we're
(12:54):
on the same platforms.
You know, we're not at the samelevels, but we're, we're part
of the same ecosystem.
So you'll come up to me orsomeone else that you perceive
as being in a good position andsay you know, it's the
equivalent to give me some sexnow because I want it.
I'm not even going to pretendto want to get to know you.
It's like give me what can yougive me?
Well, how can you benefit mycareer?
(13:14):
It's like that's not no, hello,no, we don't have no
introduction.
I don't know if it's theinternet that just kind of wrote
it or our Social graces, butwell, I'll share something with
you.
Speaker 1 (13:29):
I knew exactly what you mean, because the internet
right, when you have a socialmedia presence, it makes people
feel like they know you, mm-hmm.
So my wife has a, has asnapchat and she posts snaps all
the time and sometimes we know,you know we had a nice house,
so we we throw parties and stufflike that and I'll meet some of
(13:49):
her friends for the first time.
Never met these purple peoplebefore in my life, never seen
him before in my life.
I'll come up to him like hey,how you doing, I'm demacia.
And they'll be like, oh, I knowyou.
And I have to remind like no,I've actually never met you.
What's your name again, andthen they'll.
They'll be like, oh, I'm sorry,I just I just been watching you
(14:12):
on snapchat for years now and Ijust I'm sorry.
I felt like I know you already.
So I, I know you get a lot ofthat, you know it gives you a
false sense of intimacy.
Speaker 2 (14:23):
Exactly throws me when people DM me and they'll
use my government name and I'mlike, wait a minute, how did you
look that up?
Right?
That's kind of weird.
I don't, I don't mind it, it'sjust kind of I think.
I think it's kind of cool that,like you can meet someone out
and they know a lot about you,mm-hmm, and you know, and you've
never met them before it'sflattering.
Speaker 1 (14:40):
Yeah, I agree like oh man, you know, I met somebody
on two days ago and we were atthe play.
We went to the American PlayersTheater.
Speaker 2 (14:50):
Oh, I would in them.
Yeah, on the sticks.
Speaker 1 (14:53):
Yeah well, it's right , by the cave of the mountains.
Speaker 2 (14:55):
Yeah, yeah, what spring green yeah.
Speaker 1 (14:57):
Yeah.
So we were right there and Imet this, this woman, for the
first time and she was like, ohyeah, I'm such and such as
roommate and you know,congratulations on the new baby.
And I seen that you guys gotmarried, you know, and I'm like,
what's your name?
Again it's like, oh yeah, younever met me, but you know I,
you know I've been, why I'm upto date, I know what's going on.
(15:17):
I was like, wow, you know whatI mean.
Like I put a lot on theinternet.
Speaker 2 (15:24):
Yeah, yeah, I guess everything I don't know.
People think, because it goesboth ways, like you're putting
out positive things on theinternet, a lot of people put
out negative things on theinternet and then I Don't.
I don't want to, I don't wantto give people this impression
that you know there aregatekeepers out there, because
it's not like people will throwthat word around a lot.
I mean there are gatekeepers?
Yeah, I was just saying, thereare gatekeepers in the sense of
(15:46):
like, if you're on the internetand you say something bad about
somebody, you might think noone's watching, but years down
the line you start lookingaround and like, wait a minute.
I feel like maybe I should havegotten this opportunity, or why
is this person not replying tome?
It's because people talk, andthat's not gay, kimmy.
That's just people reacting tosomething that you did
absolutely.
So I think the in the internetalso the negative side of the
(16:07):
internet it.
It gives us a false sense ofanonymity and therefore we think
there's no accountability forour actions in that space.
And there are, you know, andyeah, there are consequences to
that our audience.
Speaker 1 (16:21):
It's a lot of people that's incarcerated.
For me incarcerated, we have alot of creative people, you know
.
I guess the number one questionis gonna always be how do I get
on?
Speaker 2 (16:31):
Yeah, I think what I?
I have this conversation with alot of people and I think the
biggest thing is just where isyour focus?
Because I think what I've seenis that we're talking about, you
know, music business, butreally anything in life,
specifically the music business,though people who are starting
out are really focused on big,big targets that really aren't
(16:52):
realistic not in the sense thatI'm discouraged anybody, but
they're just for what you'retrying to do, that it's not the
right place to invest yourenergy.
So I'll give examples like abrand new artist, unsigned, just
trying to get music out, a lotof them are focusing on radio
play, and not local radio play,not like WRT.
They want to get played on thetop radio stations, the clear
(17:15):
channels, and and radio is notfor us.
I mean commute.
There's, like I brought up WRT,yeah, former relationship with
them.
That's for us.
You know, form relationshipswith with Smaller stations.
If you want to get into radiobut the clear channels not
playing your record, no matterhow hard you try.
(17:35):
So you may spend two yearsTrying to get to clear channel
and in the meantime you didn'tput any music out and you have
no fans.
The same way with you know a lotof people I talked to.
They want to get signed.
They want to impress people whowork for labels.
They want to Network with theyou know they want to network
vertical, vertically.
They want to go up to you knowA big a and r at a big label.
(17:58):
It's like you're you're, you'llspend years of your life trying
to impress those people.
The thing is those people arelooking at Numbers and for you,
numbers equate to fans becausethe fans provide those numbers.
The the shortest Distancebetween yourself and those
numbers is you Directly to a fanslash consumer.
(18:18):
It's not going to trying toreach radio and then hitting the
numbers.
It's not you trying to get tothe label and then hitting the
numbers, because that's workingbackwards.
If you Authentically, if youmake the music that's authentic
to you, the content that'sauthentic to you, and you
deliver it directly to fans, sayyou get.
I break it down like this soyou have a thousand fans.
(18:41):
A lot of people would look atthat as a failure.
Right, you only got a thousandfans.
You know Drake has a millionfans.
You have a thousand fans thatare willing to spend $50 on you
throughout the year.
You're making $50,000.
Now scale that up, provide morevalue, incentivize that they
make them spend a hundredthroughout the year.
When you think about that,that's not very much.
(19:04):
That's, you know, under tendollars a month that they're
spending on you.
Now you make six figures offyour music.
That's crazy and it seems soSmall in comparison to getting a
major label deal now.
If you're making six figuresoff your music now, you have
options, because if you're happydoing that, you just continue
(19:24):
to scale up.
Now you got a budget you have abudget, you know, but you know
also you're living a pretty good, comfortable life.
Yeah, you're comfortable andyou have you still have control
over everything.
You still ownership overeverything and if you're making
a thousand, you can double that.
And Now they're gonna come toyou exactly and you're gonna
have leverage, whereas, say,you're the most talented person
(19:47):
on the planet and the label doessee that they don't, they then
this is Unrealistic.
I'm not saying it doesn'thappen, it does.
They want to work with you atpoint zero just because they see
the potential in you as talent.
Well, they can't justify givingyou a million dollar advance.
They might give you at $80,000advance and then they're gonna
(20:09):
try to invest in you, butrealistically, labels don't do
that much artist developmentthese days.
So it's kind of like you'rejust, you got your 80,000 and
they're kind of expecting you todevelop yourself.
Maybe they put some resourcesbehind you, but ultimately, you
know, say, best-case scenario,you become a superstar, they
made millions off of you and youjust got 80,000 right.
(20:33):
So Wouldn't you rather do thatyourself and then say this deal
isn't right I know my value andI have the numbers to prove it
and negotiate from a position ofleverage rather than someone
who's just.
You know, I get people DMing meall the time talking about
please sign me, please, I'll doanything.
It's like I don't even have alabel.
That's where the scammers comein.
That's where those fakeAtlantic records, a and our
(20:55):
emails come in.
Hey, congratulations, we loveyour music.
Just send us $500 as a fee tocover a and R-ing and legal.
Blah blah blah will draft acontract we want to sign you.
People are paying that.
There are a lot of peoplemaking Great livings off of
scamming hard dream, because ofthe dream.
Yeah, they praying off ofpeople's dreams, hopes and
(21:16):
dreams, and it's sick.
It's sick, but the I want toprovide a counter narrative to
that, so that doesn't hateseeing it happen to people, but
at the same time it's a hardpill to swallow that really
you're alone out here.
You got to build it from theground up and To me it should be
a feeling of power rather than,you know, a feeling of
(21:40):
discouragement because it's likenow you don't have to rely on
anybody else, you're the onethat does it all you know.
But a lot of people like I needthe right team, I need the
right manager, I need the label,I need to deal any distance
that you don't need that.
I've seen it way too many times.
The people that say I need this, this is this.
They don't get it and Thenthey'd never move forward and
the people who just say I'm justgonna go out and try it I they
(22:03):
make more progress.
Speaker 1 (22:06):
Well, I had Godzilla here and I asked him the same
question.
One of the things he was sayingis pretty much mirrored a lot
of things that you were saying,but one thing that he added was
do you do it every day?
Do it every single day.
Even the days that you don'twanna do it, you do it every day
.
That's where you start.
Do it every day If you're inprison or you just came home,
(22:29):
whatever.
It's like a lot of peoplethat's when they're in prison
they doing it every single day.
Then they get out, life happensand they don't do it every day,
but they still want results ofthe people that do it every
single day.
So it's like just to add that.
I thought.
It's like I think that cause alot of people ask me like hey,
(22:50):
man, how did you get yourpodcast started?
Man, how do you start a podcast?
How did you build it up likethat?
And it's like I did it everyday.
I woke up and did it everysingle day, working on my craft,
every single day.
But I mean I already came froman audio background, but it's
like I didn't interview andpeople is different.
I mean it's still like, yeah,it's conversation, but there's a
(23:11):
way to do it Leading theconversation and it's like
subtle nuances about likeactually conducting an interview
.
That's different from having aregular conversation.
Speaker 2 (23:21):
Yeah, or writing a song Exactly.
Well, let me, I'm gonna flip itagain.
Go ahead.
So a lot of people because,yeah, you said something key,
life happens Cause I'll say thatI'll back up what Godzilla was
saying 100% and I'll makestatements.
And you know, this is theinternet generation.
We have short form content.
A lot of people need context orthey want more information,
which is why we have long formpieces of content, like a
(23:43):
podcast, right?
So if I say something and Iunderstand why people get
offended when I say this, butI'll say something, you know,
like a general, blanketstatement, and I say it to
motivate people, not todiscourage, but something like
and I'm sure I've said thisverbatim before but if you want
music to pay you like a job, youhave to work it like a job.
Yeah, and I feel like that'sjust.
I heard you saying it before.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, so it's.
(24:03):
How is that false?
You know it isn't, but I can.
You know I often get peopleupset with me for saying that
cause they're like well, lifehappens, which is what you said,
and I think there's a way tomarry the two.
Obviously, life happens toeverybody.
You know, I've seen peopleovercome incredible obstacles
(24:25):
because they were so focused onthe music.
So I want to ask you cause?
A lot of people say well, I gota family, I got
responsibilities, I got kids.
How did you focus on the causeyou like?
What you have here doesn'thappen overnight.
You got to do that every day.
So how did you make that?
Speaker 1 (24:43):
work.
So what's crazy is when I, whenI first went to college, before
we even started one class, wehad what's called orientation.
So they set us down in thisroom and they played us this
video and it was pretty cheesybut it was a lot of good
information Like, hey, this iswhat you're going to experience.
(25:03):
And one of the things they saidis going to experience is life.
They said, man, you know yourdog's going to die, you know
your girlfriend might break upwith you, you know.
And they had all of thesedifferent scenarios right, and
they're like these thingsprobably are going to happen in
the course of you know the yearsit's going to take for you to
get this degree, but you can'tlet that stop you.
(25:27):
So me actually going to collegeand experiencing a lot of I mean
, I had a kid when I was incollege A lot of different
things happen and I still youknow 4.0, you know just like top
of my class and everything.
And so I felt like meovercoming that right there,
(25:50):
like it just like trained me tolike overcome you know whatever
gets thrown at me, you know.
So I would say education, youknow college, that's what helped
me.
You know what I mean, that'swhat helped me, that's like
groomed me to overcome whateverand stay focused on my goal.
Speaker 2 (26:11):
You know I would agree with that Cause.
When I went straight fromcollege to basically quitting
all my jobs and just doing thisfull time and it was like I was
already on a schedule withcollege.
I was already on a schedulewith the multiple jobs that I
had.
So I was used to work and thenI was making music on the side
(26:33):
and going on little, you knowshow runs and this and that.
So it was just nonstop hustle,so it's like if you're used to
hustling, just keep doing it,keep that same energy up and
apply it to music.
So yeah, that's how I feelabout it.
But yeah, you know, I have alot of conversations with people
that are like, well, I got agirl, I got a kid, I got a
marriage.
And I kind of look at it likecause I don't have those things,
(26:55):
right, right, and I feel sothey think it's easier for you
because you don't have all ofthe extra responsibility.
And I'll be totally honest, itprobably is, it's certain.
I mean, you know, we all gothrough what we go through.
Speaker 1 (27:08):
But you still got a mom, you still got a, you know
what I mean.
You still got family, you stillgot friends, you still got
obligations outside of justtaking care of yourself.
But the other thing too.
Speaker 2 (27:18):
It was like, you know , you chose to get married, you
chose to have kids.
That's not a negative thing,you know what I mean.
Like that's something to beproud of, right?
So are you gonna make musicbecause you want to be happier
for yourself and your family, orare you gonna use your family
as kind of the shield fromcriticism for you not pursuing
what you claim you want topursue?
(27:38):
How bad do you want it, right?
Yeah, you know, like this is asexy career.
It just is, and you can getswept up.
But in all other careers I'llput it this way you don't buy a
ticket to an NBA, but you don'tbuy a ticket to a Bucks game,
right, and you're in the standsand in the third quarter you run
(27:59):
out onto the court and expectthe team to just embrace you and
say, yeah, yeah, play with us.
That's not how it works.
You know they had to go throughthe college circuit, the high
school, the college circuit, thedraft, all that.
And music is a similar way,except we don't really see those
barriers.
Speaker 1 (28:17):
And we don't really, people don't really see the
climb.
Speaker 2 (28:21):
They don't know.
Speaker 1 (28:22):
The back end, like all of the work that you had to
do before you turned on amicrophone or you flipped on a
camera.
They don't see all of that work, all of the sacrifices that you
had to make.
So it's like I guess my wifesaid you make it look so easy.
Speaker 2 (28:37):
No, but that's important, because another thing
, too, is that we don't showcaseor glamorize the middle class
when it comes to music.
I'm talking about people makinga living.
They're not obscenely wealthybut you will talk to people who
will look you dead and I with astraight face and say, if you're
not a millionaire, you failed.
(28:58):
I'm like, wait a minute.
So owning a house, havingfinancial stability, well, doing
what you love, that's a failure.
Yeah, because you're not Drake.
You're not Drake.
I had someone say you're notDrake.
Drake's a billionaire, youfailed.
Speaker 1 (29:14):
I'm like, okay, I'm a happy failure Right.
Speaker 2 (29:19):
But that's what I'm talking about.
What's up everybody.
This is your host D-Star herewith.
Speaker 2 (00:02):
DJ Payne one.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
DJ Payne one platinum , multi platinum now Multi
platinum how many platinum plotsyou got now?
Speaker 2 (00:09):
Just two, but you said that super, not that put me
, that puts me into the, intothe multi platinum.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
Right, but you said that to not.
Shall I just to want more.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
I don't know what you want.
It is very humble.
Speaker 1 (00:22):
He's very humble.
Ok, so for the people thatdon't know, you kind of give us
a little bit about yourself.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
I'm a record producer , dj, also educator in the music
business space other spaces aswell but I've been doing this
for a while, I probably sayprofessionally, since 2008.
That was, that was the breakingpoint for me.
I was in school, I had threejobs at the time and then
suddenly number one record kindof happened.
(00:49):
But prior to that I had beenmaking music for a good decade.
Speaker 1 (00:53):
So what you mean by making music?
You mean by, like, making yourown beats, making my own beats.
Speaker 2 (00:58):
I was wrapping a little bit at the beginning.
Yeah, you know trying to learnhow to engineer playing shows,
DJing, all that.
Speaker 1 (01:04):
Right.
So what?
Which one did you fall in lovewith first?
Speaker 2 (01:07):
Probably probably rapping, I'm not going to lie,
yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:11):
Still got bars no.
Speaker 2 (01:13):
That's why I stopped.
You never did have bars?
No, I don't think so.
But yeah, you know like thatnecessitated having production,
because it was.
You know it was not going tosay what year it was, but it was
.
I was in high school, middleschool, going into high school,
so it wasn't like it is now.
We just go online and you got amillion beats at your
fingertips, so I had to figureout.
(01:34):
You need to know somebody whomade beats right, or you became
that person, so I became thatperson.
Speaker 1 (01:39):
All right, we need beats.
Somebody got to learn how tomake beats, and you were the guy
.
Speaker 2 (01:44):
I took that upon myself, and then I think that
begets more learning, because aonce you know how to make beats,
well, now you got to figure outhow to at least track Right,
and you learn that.
Ok, I may as well just try tolearn how to mix.
Speaker 1 (01:56):
So the people that don't know what tracking is,
break that down.
Speaker 2 (01:59):
Yeah, running the session as an engineer, but in
the recording capacity, and thenyou move on to mixing.
You know, making the recordingsound good.
And then well, hey, we got toput the music out, so now you
have to learn the business to anextent distribution and
Marketing, marketing and graphicdesign, because we're going to
do those.
And then you got to learnsocial media, because that was
(02:20):
brand new.
Yeah, it was new around thattime.
You know, that was, I remember,when it was revolutionary, the
stuff Soulja Boy was doing rightWith MySpace.
Speaker 1 (02:29):
it was with MySpace whole game and I'm so shout out
to Soulja Boy and Kazan and allthose other file sharing
services.
Speaker 2 (02:37):
He was kind of tricking people but because he
was the first one to do it, itwas the blueprint.
It works.
Speaker 1 (02:42):
Yeah, it was the first one that actually made it
work.
Speaker 2 (02:45):
Yeah, so anytime there are all these memes or
it's like Soulja Boy is thefirst rapper to do that, I'm
like he kind of was yeah.
Speaker 1 (02:50):
And then he pulled up the files like oh this is.
You know what I mean.
This is irrespectable.
I was the first one to have aniPhone.
I was the first rapper to havean iPhone.
Speaker 2 (03:00):
And somehow, somehow things like that actually are
accurate.
I don't know how he does it,but yeah, he's a pretty
interesting figure in the musicbusiness.
Speaker 1 (03:09):
Yeah, and it's crazy because it seems like he's lying
but he's not.
Yeah, the truth.
Speaker 2 (03:15):
No, I never.
You know.
He has his moments where I haveto shake my head.
He's an influential figure.
He influenced a lot.
I mean bedroom recordings intoviral hits.
Speaker 1 (03:26):
Right.
Speaker 2 (03:26):
I would argue that was one of the first viral hits.
Speaker 1 (03:29):
Absolutely.
And then after that.
Speaker 2 (03:30):
Now it's just the norm.
Speaker 1 (03:31):
You know there's not First ringtone hit.
You know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (03:34):
Yeah yeah, and that was revolutionary at the time.
Ringtones were so novel.
Now people don't even use them.
But we go into the streamingarea where a viral hit is just
the norm.
The norm, that's what you,that's, that's the minimum for
success.
You got to get the viral hit.
Speaker 1 (03:50):
So for the people that really just not familiar
with your catalog, can you breakdown your catalog a little bit
first?
Speaker 2 (03:56):
2008,.
That was when I referred to asmy break.
That was a produced don't do itfor Young GZ.
And then from then on I justkind of had a cool run.
We did another record, me andDJ Cass for GZ and USDA call CTE
or nothing.
Oh, I did Love this city formeat mill.
Everything just kind of blendsinto some jumping all this is
(04:17):
not in chronological order.
Right, right, little bitty andKevin Gates.
We are strong.
G Herbo, common Hunters.
Most recently, the new platinumplaque is for the push ice, the
album.
But we did a gold single offthe album, me Go Hayes and JD
Fang.
We did a record called switchit up, also featuring G Herbo.
(04:39):
So a couple of records with him, let's not forget about I-20.
Whole lot of, but that's likethat's a friend you know.
So we did a million together,lots of stuff with 20, oh, and
then Ludacris, of course.
Speaker 1 (04:51):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (04:52):
Ludacris and Rick Ross actually on a song called
Money Off Ludiversel.
The game featuring Jada KissStyles P AR-16, off of Jesus
Pease, called Last Supper RaceRember.
Grow it Up, mike Willemars.
Speaker 1 (05:06):
It's a lot of stuff it's a lot, I know, kind of
trying to try to remember man.
Speaker 2 (05:11):
A public enemy.
That was amazing.
We worked on a oh my god.
We worked on a Nas record, ohwow.
Shout out to Static Select.
Yeah, he brought us in Becausewe had been creating samples for
him for a while.
Me and my team, vintage Vandals, shout out to Dream Life.
Who?
Speaker 1 (05:28):
we were talking about earlier, right.
Speaker 2 (05:30):
We, yeah, we got brought in and it was amazing
because it was like all myfriends, we had a memory from
out here, stack, trace from outhere, Dream Life.
Speaker 1 (05:38):
I like memory, yeah His work.
Speaker 2 (05:40):
Yeah, he's dope.
And then Tina G, who's alsofrom out here.
She was singing.
Gary Clark Jr was on the record.
I think it was the first timeNas and Joey Badass were on the
same record.
So, I played some keys and somebass and stuff on it and it
just became this epic project.
And then we then Dream Life andI co-produced with Static Head
(06:03):
High off of Joey Badass's lastalbum.
Speaker 1 (06:06):
Yeah, that's a crazy catalog.
So kind of tell us about thejourney a little bit, Like did
it kind of feel like it wasovernight when you first got
that first number one, or did itfeel like it was a long time
coming, or did it when it firsthit there, was it like too fast
or like how did you feel?
Speaker 2 (06:24):
All of the above?
Oh, okay, I remember I wasworking one of my jobs.
I worked on campus for apre-college program because I
studied to become a teacher.
So I was working with kids andI'm sitting at my desk, my
supervisors in the office withme, but we're the only two
(06:44):
people there my manager at thetime, Brendan, from Toronto.
I get a call from a Canadiannumber and he's like you're on
the GZ album and my brain justwasn't processing what he was
saying because I'm like there'sno way he said that right,
Because I felt like at the timeI had no business being on an
album that big.
Speaker 1 (06:59):
Really.
Speaker 2 (07:00):
Oh yeah, and I mean I want like part of me.
This is kind of the wholeimposter syndrome thing with a
lot of us artists, because we,on the one hand, we believe with
all our hearts that this iswhat we were meant to do, but
then, when it happens, we'relike wait a minute, is this
really, are we really deservingof this?
So that I couldn't process whathe was saying.
I had to make.
(07:20):
I made him repeat it like threetimes and then I walked out of
the room.
I was like say that one moretime.
And then I came back into theroom and I told my supervisor,
who was a musician, I wasexcited.
He got kind of excited for metoo.
But yeah, that was the start andI remember I thought everything
was going to change overnight.
After that I'm like I got anumber one record.
(07:41):
This is amazing.
I can walk into anywhere andI'm just you know, I'm the man,
not even that just likeopportunities are just going to
come to me now.
And realistically, that justwasn't how it was.
I still had to seek out theopportunities.
I had a great entry point, youknow, so I could go to labels
and be like I did this off theGs.
(08:02):
Okay, cool, yeah, here's mynumber.
But it wasn't like I became thego to producer in the business.
I still had to work a lot.
I had a lot of room left todevelop as a producer.
Speaker 1 (08:15):
So did the people stop asking you to do things for
free, or?
That has never stopped.
Speaker 2 (08:19):
No, someone has, as anytime I checked my phone,
someone's asking me forsomething for free.
So that's just how it is.
It comes with the territory.
Speaker 1 (08:26):
How does that make you feel?
Speaker 2 (08:27):
I kind of ignore it.
What bothers me is when I washaving a tough week last week.
Emotionally it wasn't a badweek, I'm not going to call it a
bad week, it was a great week.
Everything is great in my life.
But sometimes, you know, youhave these moments where, or
these periods where you'rereflecting on something and I
(08:47):
don't know I was feelingparticularly lonely or
vulnerable or something thatweek.
Speaker 1 (08:52):
I was just getting all this as we all go through
sometimes.
Speaker 2 (08:54):
Yeah, and I think we just try to hide it and that's
another topic.
But I remember someone reachedout to like hey, I'm a big fan.
Can you listen to my music,check out my beats and you know,
get them places.
I'm trying to go, I'm trying toget big placements.
I'm just like you're just tryingto use me.
And I get this all the time andyou know a lot of people are
(09:16):
critical when I speak on thisbecause they're like, I'd love
to be in your position.
It's like, yeah, you would andI I'm very grateful, but at the
same time, I just want to makeit clear that we're all human,
um, and human beings don't likefeeling like people are out to
use them.
So when someone reaches out andit's not about money or
anything, it's like if I don'tknow you and you're framing your
(09:41):
message to me as you wanting toextract some benefit from me,
that feels terrible.
It's like picture, you know,just like being used.
You know like if you have afriend, that's like, oh, can you
drive me somewhere?
And finally you say, no, Ican't drive you anywhere, oh,
I'm not your friend anymore.
Speaker 1 (09:56):
You're like wow, you were using me the whole time.
Speaker 2 (09:58):
And this will be the first thing that people will say
to me and to you.
Know, anyone that they perceiveas having some kind of
influence in the business islike just talk to me like a
human, just ask me how my day is.
You know what I mean.
Don't just be like, hey, what'sup?
Man, really respect you.
Hey, can you do this, this,this, this, this for me?
And you know, I pride myself onbeing non-reactive to that and
(10:18):
just kind of trying to put it inperspective.
But sometimes I'm just like,here we go, I've reached my
limit, I feel sad about this andyeah.
So I messaged him back and Iwas just like man, this is how
it feels.
I don't know why.
I had that moment where I'mlike let me just tell him
exactly how I feel.
And I was like, yeah, thisfeels, this feels bad Feels.
You know, I'm getting a hundredmessages like this every week.
(10:40):
Someone's trying to get somebenefit from me, someone that
doesn't know me, someone thatdoesn't you know, like you don't
even know my real name and I'msupposed to go out on a limb and
get you all this stuff that I'mtrying to get for myself and
that if I were to get it forsomeone to be, for someone that
I know has worked with meforever and you know we've been
close and so on and so forth.
He apologized, but I just don'tthink people understand that.
(11:03):
I think people will look at anartist that are creative, that's
in a potentially betterposition than them, and think,
okay, let me go to them and getthis benefit from them.
But realistically that's not.
I mean, you tell me with yourjourney, relationships matter.
Speaker 1 (11:23):
Here we go.
Speaker 2 (11:24):
You switch.
Speaker 1 (11:25):
You've, you've, you've done it.
Okay, so Payne actually has apodcast too.
So we were talking about thisoff camera, that sometimes in
the course of doing an interviewyou switch from being
interviewed to the interviewee,right, so it's like it's just a
little inside joke.
But I'm sorry, go ahead.
Speaker 2 (11:45):
But correct me if I'm wrong.
I mean for me any.
Anytime I've developed arelationship that was of value.
It's like it's a there's,there's some kind of I bring
something to the table, youbring something to the table, we
grow together from it.
It's not just me saying, hey,give me this, give me this, give
me this, give me this, give methis, give me this, and then I
(12:07):
get it.
I mean even I equate that I'msingle, so I equate that to you
know, like the dating process,my favorite subject
relationships.
Yeah let's go, let's just jumpinto that.
So I can't just walk up to awoman and I'm like, hey, give me
some sex Right now, don't work.
And I'm not, let's not lie, mendo that yeah absolutely.
(12:31):
And it's one.
It's disrespectful to, it'sineffective, but that's.
You know.
In the music business, a lot ofpeople are coming up to their
peers.
Even if I don't care if you'renot, if you've never had a
record out, if you put yourselfin the music business, we're
peers, right Like Drake is huge,but I'm his peer, we're, we're
(12:54):
on the same platforms.
You know, we're not at the samelevels, but we're, we're part
of the same ecosystem.
So you'll come up to me orsomeone else that you perceive
as being in a good position andsay you know, it's the
equivalent to give me some sexnow because I want it.
I'm not even going to pretendto want to get to know you.
It's like give me what can yougive me?
Well, how can you benefit mycareer?
(13:14):
It's like that's not no, hello,no, we don't have no
introduction.
I don't know if it's theinternet that just kind of wrote
it or our Social graces, butwell, I'll share something with
you.
Speaker 1 (13:29):
I knew exactly what you mean, because the internet
right, when you have a socialmedia presence, it makes people
feel like they know you, mm-hmm.
So my wife has a, has asnapchat and she posts snaps all
the time and sometimes we know,you know we had a nice house,
so we we throw parties and stufflike that and I'll meet some of
(13:49):
her friends for the first time.
Never met these purple peoplebefore in my life, never seen
him before in my life.
I'll come up to him like hey,how you doing, I'm demacia.
And they'll be like, oh, I knowyou.
And I have to remind like no,I've actually never met you.
What's your name again, andthen they'll.
They'll be like, oh, I'm sorry,I just I just been watching you
(14:12):
on snapchat for years now and Ijust I'm sorry.
I felt like I know you already.
So I, I know you get a lot ofthat, you know it gives you a
false sense of intimacy.
Speaker 2 (14:23):
Exactly throws me when people DM me and they'll
use my government name and I'mlike, wait a minute, how did you
look that up?
Right?
That's kind of weird.
I don't, I don't mind it, it'sjust kind of I think.
I think it's kind of cool that,like you can meet someone out
and they know a lot about you,mm-hmm, and you know, and you've
never met them before it'sflattering.
Speaker 1 (14:40):
Yeah, I agree like oh man, you know, I met somebody
on two days ago and we were atthe play.
We went to the American PlayersTheater.
Speaker 2 (14:50):
Oh, I would in them.
Yeah, on the sticks.
Speaker 1 (14:53):
Yeah well, it's right , by the cave of the mountains.
Speaker 2 (14:55):
Yeah, yeah, what spring green yeah.
Speaker 1 (14:57):
Yeah.
So we were right there and Imet this, this woman, for the
first time and she was like, ohyeah, I'm such and such as
roommate and you know,congratulations on the new baby.
And I seen that you guys gotmarried, you know, and I'm like,
what's your name?
Again it's like, oh yeah, younever met me, but you know I,
you know I've been, why I'm upto date, I know what's going on.
(15:17):
I was like, wow, you know whatI mean.
Like I put a lot on theinternet.
Speaker 2 (15:24):
Yeah, yeah, I guess everything I don't know.
People think, because it goesboth ways, like you're putting
out positive things on theinternet, a lot of people put
out negative things on theinternet and then I Don't.
I don't want to, I don't wantto give people this impression
that you know there aregatekeepers out there, because
it's not like people will throwthat word around a lot.
I mean there are gatekeepers?
Yeah, I was just saying, thereare gatekeepers in the sense of
(15:46):
like, if you're on the internetand you say something bad about
somebody, you might think noone's watching, but years down
the line you start lookingaround and like, wait a minute.
I feel like maybe I should havegotten this opportunity, or why
is this person not replying tome?
It's because people talk, andthat's not gay, kimmy.
That's just people reacting tosomething that you did
absolutely.
So I think the in the internetalso the negative side of the
(16:07):
internet it.
It gives us a false sense ofanonymity and therefore we think
there's no accountability forour actions in that space.
And there are, you know, andyeah, there are consequences to
that our audience.
Speaker 1 (16:21):
It's a lot of people that's incarcerated.
For me incarcerated, we have alot of creative people, you know
.
I guess the number one questionis gonna always be how do I get
on?
Speaker 2 (16:31):
Yeah, I think what I?
I have this conversation with alot of people and I think the
biggest thing is just where isyour focus?
Because I think what I've seenis that we're talking about, you
know, music business, butreally anything in life,
specifically the music business,though people who are starting
out are really focused on big,big targets that really aren't
(16:52):
realistic not in the sense thatI'm discouraged anybody, but
they're just for what you'retrying to do, that it's not the
right place to invest yourenergy.
So I'll give examples like abrand new artist, unsigned, just
trying to get music out, a lotof them are focusing on radio
play, and not local radio play,not like WRT.
They want to get played on thetop radio stations, the clear
(17:15):
channels, and and radio is notfor us.
I mean commute.
There's, like I brought up WRT,yeah, former relationship with
them.
That's for us.
You know, form relationshipswith with Smaller stations.
If you want to get into radiobut the clear channels not
playing your record, no matterhow hard you try.
(17:35):
So you may spend two yearsTrying to get to clear channel
and in the meantime you didn'tput any music out and you have
no fans.
The same way with you know a lotof people I talked to.
They want to get signed.
They want to impress people whowork for labels.
They want to Network with theyou know they want to network
vertical, vertically.
They want to go up to you knowA big a and r at a big label.
(17:58):
It's like you're you're, you'llspend years of your life trying
to impress those people.
The thing is those people arelooking at Numbers and for you,
numbers equate to fans becausethe fans provide those numbers.
The the shortest Distancebetween yourself and those
numbers is you Directly to a fanslash consumer.
(18:18):
It's not going to trying toreach radio and then hitting the
numbers.
It's not you trying to get tothe label and then hitting the
numbers, because that's workingbackwards.
If you Authentically, if youmake the music that's authentic
to you, the content that'sauthentic to you, and you
deliver it directly to fans, sayyou get.
I break it down like this soyou have a thousand fans.
(18:41):
A lot of people would look atthat as a failure.
Right, you only got a thousandfans.
You know Drake has a millionfans.
You have a thousand fans thatare willing to spend $50 on you
throughout the year.
You're making $50,000.
Now scale that up, provide morevalue, incentivize that they
make them spend a hundredthroughout the year.
When you think about that,that's not very much.
(19:04):
That's, you know, under tendollars a month that they're
spending on you.
Now you make six figures offyour music.
That's crazy and it seems soSmall in comparison to getting a
major label deal now.
If you're making six figuresoff your music now, you have
options, because if you're happydoing that, you just continue
(19:24):
to scale up.
Now you got a budget you have abudget, you know, but you know
also you're living a pretty good, comfortable life.
Yeah, you're comfortable andyou have you still have control
over everything.
You still ownership overeverything and if you're making
a thousand, you can double that.
And Now they're gonna come toyou exactly and you're gonna
have leverage, whereas, say,you're the most talented person
(19:47):
on the planet and the label doessee that they don't, they then
this is Unrealistic.
I'm not saying it doesn'thappen, it does.
They want to work with you atpoint zero just because they see
the potential in you as talent.
Well, they can't justify givingyou a million dollar advance.
They might give you at $80,000advance and then they're gonna
(20:09):
try to invest in you, butrealistically, labels don't do
that much artist developmentthese days.
So it's kind of like you'rejust, you got your 80,000 and
they're kind of expecting you todevelop yourself.
Maybe they put some resourcesbehind you, but ultimately, you
know, say, best-case scenario,you become a superstar, they
made millions off of you and youjust got 80,000 right.
(20:33):
So Wouldn't you rather do thatyourself and then say this deal
isn't right I know my value andI have the numbers to prove it
and negotiate from a position ofleverage rather than someone
who's just.
You know, I get people DMing meall the time talking about
please sign me, please, I'll doanything.
It's like I don't even have alabel.
That's where the scammers comein.
That's where those fakeAtlantic records, a and our
(20:55):
emails come in.
Hey, congratulations, we loveyour music.
Just send us $500 as a fee tocover a and R-ing and legal.
Blah blah blah will draft acontract we want to sign you.
People are paying that.
There are a lot of peoplemaking Great livings off of
scamming hard dream, because ofthe dream.
Yeah, they praying off ofpeople's dreams, hopes and
(21:16):
dreams, and it's sick.
It's sick, but the I want toprovide a counter narrative to
that, so that doesn't hateseeing it happen to people, but
at the same time it's a hardpill to swallow that really
you're alone out here.
You got to build it from theground up and To me it should be
a feeling of power rather than,you know, a feeling of
(21:40):
discouragement because it's likenow you don't have to rely on
anybody else, you're the onethat does it all you know.
But a lot of people like I needthe right team, I need the
right manager, I need the label,I need to deal any distance
that you don't need that.
I've seen it way too many times.
The people that say I need this, this is this.
They don't get it and Thenthey'd never move forward and
the people who just say I'm justgonna go out and try it I they
(22:03):
make more progress.
Speaker 1 (22:06):
Well, I had Godzilla here and I asked him the same
question.
One of the things he was sayingis pretty much mirrored a lot
of things that you were saying,but one thing that he added was
do you do it every day?
Do it every single day.
Even the days that you don'twanna do it, you do it every day
.
That's where you start.
Do it every day If you're inprison or you just came home,
(22:29):
whatever.
It's like a lot of peoplethat's when they're in prison
they doing it every single day.
Then they get out, life happensand they don't do it every day,
but they still want results ofthe people that do it every
single day.
So it's like just to add that.
I thought.
It's like I think that cause alot of people ask me like hey,
(22:50):
man, how did you get yourpodcast started?
Man, how do you start a podcast?
How did you build it up likethat?
And it's like I did it everyday.
I woke up and did it everysingle day, working on my craft,
every single day.
But I mean I already came froman audio background, but it's
like I didn't interview andpeople is different.
I mean it's still like, yeah,it's conversation, but there's a
(23:11):
way to do it Leading theconversation and it's like
subtle nuances about likeactually conducting an interview
.
That's different from having aregular conversation.
Speaker 2 (23:21):
Yeah, or writing a song Exactly.
Well, let me, I'm gonna flip itagain.
Go ahead.
So a lot of people because,yeah, you said something key,
life happens Cause I'll say thatI'll back up what Godzilla was
saying 100% and I'll makestatements.
And you know, this is theinternet generation.
We have short form content.
A lot of people need context orthey want more information,
which is why we have long formpieces of content, like a
(23:43):
podcast, right?
So if I say something and Iunderstand why people get
offended when I say this, butI'll say something, you know,
like a general, blanketstatement, and I say it to
motivate people, not todiscourage, but something like
and I'm sure I've said thisverbatim before but if you want
music to pay you like a job, youhave to work it like a job.
Yeah, and I feel like that'sjust.
I heard you saying it before.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, so it's.
(24:03):
How is that false?
You know it isn't, but I can.
You know I often get peopleupset with me for saying that
cause they're like well, lifehappens, which is what you said,
and I think there's a way tomarry the two.
Obviously, life happens toeverybody.
You know, I've seen peopleovercome incredible obstacles
(24:25):
because they were so focused onthe music.
So I want to ask you cause?
A lot of people say well, I gota family, I got
responsibilities, I got kids.
How did you focus on the causeyou like?
What you have here doesn'thappen overnight.
You got to do that every day.
So how did you make that?
Speaker 1 (24:43):
work.
So what's crazy is when I, whenI first went to college, before
we even started one class, wehad what's called orientation.
So they set us down in thisroom and they played us this
video and it was pretty cheesybut it was a lot of good
information Like, hey, this iswhat you're going to experience.
(25:03):
And one of the things they saidis going to experience is life.
They said, man, you know yourdog's going to die, you know
your girlfriend might break upwith you, you know.
And they had all of thesedifferent scenarios right, and
they're like these thingsprobably are going to happen in
the course of you know the yearsit's going to take for you to
get this degree, but you can'tlet that stop you.
(25:27):
So me actually going to collegeand experiencing a lot of I mean
, I had a kid when I was incollege A lot of different
things happen and I still youknow 4.0, you know just like top
of my class and everything.
And so I felt like meovercoming that right there,
(25:50):
like it just like trained me tolike overcome you know whatever
gets thrown at me, you know.
So I would say education, youknow college, that's what helped
me.
You know what I mean, that'swhat helped me, that's like
groomed me to overcome whateverand stay focused on my goal.
Speaker 2 (26:11):
You know I would agree with that Cause.
When I went straight fromcollege to basically quitting
all my jobs and just doing thisfull time and it was like I was
already on a schedule withcollege.
I was already on a schedulewith the multiple jobs that I
had.
So I was used to work and thenI was making music on the side
(26:33):
and going on little, you knowshow runs and this and that.
So it was just nonstop hustle,so it's like if you're used to
hustling, just keep doing it,keep that same energy up and
apply it to music.
So yeah, that's how I feelabout it.
But yeah, you know, I have alot of conversations with people
that are like, well, I got agirl, I got a kid, I got a
marriage.
And I kind of look at it likecause I don't have those things,
(26:55):
right, right, and I feel sothey think it's easier for you
because you don't have all ofthe extra responsibility.
And I'll be totally honest, itprobably is, it's certain.
I mean, you know, we all gothrough what we go through.
Speaker 1 (27:08):
But you still got a mom, you still got a, you know
what I mean.
You still got family, you stillgot friends, you still got
obligations outside of justtaking care of yourself.
But the other thing too.
Speaker 2 (27:18):
It was like, you know , you chose to get married, you
chose to have kids.
That's not a negative thing,you know what I mean.
Like that's something to beproud of, right?
So are you gonna make musicbecause you want to be happier
for yourself and your family, orare you gonna use your family
as kind of the shield fromcriticism for you not pursuing
what you claim you want topursue?
(27:38):
How bad do you want it, right?
Yeah, you know, like this is asexy career.
It just is, and you can getswept up.
But in all other careers I'llput it this way you don't buy a
ticket to an NBA, but you don'tbuy a ticket to a Bucks game,
right, and you're in the standsand in the third quarter you run
(27:59):
out onto the court and expectthe team to just embrace you and
say, yeah, yeah, play with us.
That's not how it works.
You know they had to go throughthe college circuit, the high
school, the college circuit, thedraft, all that.
And music is a similar way,except we don't really see those
barriers.
Speaker 1 (28:17):
And we don't really, people don't really see the
climb.
Speaker 2 (28:21):
They don't know.
Speaker 1 (28:22):
The back end, like all of the work that you had to
do before you turned on amicrophone or you flipped on a
camera.
They don't see all of that work, all of the sacrifices that you
had to make.
So it's like I guess my wifesaid you make it look so easy.
Speaker 2 (28:37):
No, but that's important, because another thing
, too, is that we don't showcaseor glamorize the middle class
when it comes to music.
I'm talking about people makinga living.
They're not obscenely wealthybut you will talk to people who
will look you dead and I with astraight face and say, if you're
not a millionaire, you failed.
(28:58):
I'm like, wait a minute.
So owning a house, havingfinancial stability, well, doing
what you love, that's a failure.
Yeah, because you're not Drake.
You're not Drake.
I had someone say you're notDrake.
Drake's a billionaire, youfailed.
Speaker 1 (29:14):
I'm like, okay, I'm a happy failure Right.
Speaker 2 (29:19):
But that's what I'm talking about.
Popular Podcasts
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Therapy Gecko
An unlicensed lizard psychologist travels the universe talking to strangers about absolutely nothing. TO CALL THE GECKO: follow me on https://www.twitch.tv/lyleforever to get a notification for when I am taking calls. I am usually live Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays but lately a lot of other times too. I am a gecko.